June 17, 2025 • 48 mins
Rachel talks about why people love or hate musicals, Crazy Ex- Girlfriend and how it would never be made today and how unlikely it was to get made back then. She also talks about growing up in Manhattan Beach, Theater School in NY, not having billionaire friends, enjoying the now, writing her one woman show to get through the death of Adam Schlessenger and the birth of her daughter, how being married to a funny person can help, Hamilton, The Tony Awards, the amazing last year of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, the magic of musical, theater, and having a stand-up comic/Hughes Aircraft Engineer grandpa.
Bio: RACHEL BLOOM is perhaps best known from the CW musical dramedy Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, which she co-created, executive produced, and starred in as ‘Rebecca Bunch.’ For her acting work on the show, she was awarded a Golden Globe, Critics' Choice and TCA Award; for her songwriting work, she won an Emmy Award for Original Music and Lyrics along with her songwriting partners Adam Schlesinger and Jack Dolgen. Most recently, Bloom debuted her Drama Desk nominated, sold-out, four-week off Broadway one-woman musical comedy Death, Let Me Do My Show which she originally toured around London and the US. It was then released on Netflix as a comedy special Death, Let Me Do My Special and nominated for a Critic’s Choice Award. She also co-starred in the Hulu comedy series Reboot and the second season of the Max series, Julia. Her past stage work includes selling out Radio City Music Hall and the London Palladium performing Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: LIVE. She also starred in her own solo tour, What Am I Going To Do With My Life Now? in 2019, which included a week-long residency at Just For Laughs. In addition, she appeared in a one-night only production of Crazy For You at Lincoln Center directed by Susan Stroman. In addition to her film and television work, in 2020, she published her book “I Want To Be Where The Normal People Are,” a collection of personal essays and poems on the subjects of insecurity, fame, anxiety, and much more.
Bio: RACHEL BLOOM is perhaps best known from the CW musical dramedy Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, which she co-created, executive produced, and starred in as ‘Rebecca Bunch.’ For her acting work on the show, she was awarded a Golden Globe, Critics' Choice and TCA Award; for her songwriting work, she won an Emmy Award for Original Music and Lyrics along with her songwriting partners Adam Schlesinger and Jack Dolgen. Most recently, Bloom debuted her Drama Desk nominated, sold-out, four-week off Broadway one-woman musical comedy Death, Let Me Do My Show which she originally toured around London and the US. It was then released on Netflix as a comedy special Death, Let Me Do My Special and nominated for a Critic’s Choice Award. She also co-starred in the Hulu comedy series Reboot and the second season of the Max series, Julia. Her past stage work includes selling out Radio City Music Hall and the London Palladium performing Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: LIVE. She also starred in her own solo tour, What Am I Going To Do With My Life Now? in 2019, which included a week-long residency at Just For Laughs. In addition, she appeared in a one-night only production of Crazy For You at Lincoln Center directed by Susan Stroman. In addition to her film and television work, in 2020, she published her book “I Want To Be Where The Normal People Are,” a collection of personal essays and poems on the subjects of insecurity, fame, anxiety, and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawhut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Rachel Bloom and I'm just fine being alone
with Jake Cogan makes me feel safe.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Don't be alone with jj Cogan.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Hi, welcome to don't be alone with Jake Cogan. I am,
of course Jake Hogan, and you are cognation. Does that
work your Cogan nights? I'm not sure. You guys, write
in and tell me right in at dbawjka at gmail
dot com, any of your comments, suggestions, your queries. The
other thing you can do, it's very exciting for you,
(00:40):
is you can subscribe to the show. Just press the
subscribe button on YouTube or whatever you listen to, but
more YouTube. YouTube is the one go to YouTube. Even
if you don't watch the show on YouTube. Go to
YouTube like the show and then go back and listen
to it on Spotify or Apple Music, wherever you go.
Because the more people that subscribe the show on YouTube,
(01:01):
the more I can get really big, big advertisers, and
I'm hoping for drug companies. Moving on, we have a
great show for you today. It is the delightful Rachel Bloom.
She had an incredible show called Crazy Ex Girlfriend, where
each week she talked about a woman who was trying
(01:22):
to get her old boyfriend back, and through that show,
it wasn't just about that. It was about relationships and
about love and about life and about mental health. And
it was beautiful and funny and magical and a wonderful show.
And I'm still to this day a big fan. I
watched the musical numbers online whenever I can, I watch
(01:46):
the shows in rerun. I'm just a huge fan of it.
I was a fan of Rachel did a special called
Death Let Me do My Special, and it's really great.
It's about her experience having a baby and also having
one of her very best friends die, and it was
moving and beautiful. So Rachel is a kindred spirit because
(02:09):
she she believes in comedy and she believes in music. Uh,
and she believes in musicals, and so do I. And
I don't find that many people who love musicals as
much as I do. I love them, and I'm wondering
why people don't. And I'm wondering what makes a good musical,
and I'm wondering what made her so good. So when
we come back, we'll talk to her about all these
things and more with a great Rachel.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Blue, don't be alone.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Because you're such a kind to come here.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Gift.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, this is for you. Towels, Thank you. I figure
everybody everybody could use paper towels. And it's bounty the
quicker picker.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Pick her up bounty thank you song.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Because I'm Jewish. Here's the receipt just in case.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I want to get something cheaper and then take
some of the money.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's up to you. So much to you. That's grad
us from the show. That's just from the show to you.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I don't know if this is ironic, but this is
actually a really good gift for me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
It's a good gift for anyone.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's start giving. This is a gift.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah, that's what if you're if you're still around at
Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Paper towels. Really well, that's a great gift.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's a great gift.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Everyone will use it.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Yeah, it's it's fantastic. So I'm officially welcome Rachel Bloom.
Thank you very much for being here. So fantastic. I'm
such a fan of yours, and particularly of Crazy Girlfriend,
but also special and of the things. I'm a fan
of your life on TikTok, like you the parties that
(03:50):
you have and the parties.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yes, I had my spelling be birthday party.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
There was a party, which bind the way.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I should have just that that that was such a
I rented out a gym. I mean that was I
should have just told everyone it was fantastic.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
But I see you doing improv with people and things,
It's like, this is fantastic. That's what a great life
that you're living.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm very very lucky. Do you do improv? You come
from it.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm from the groundings. I'm a ground you go to
perform a grounds all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And we just didn't improve too.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Oh yeah, I did improv show the Saturday at the
place I've been an improv group for many many years
called the Transformers, and we do once a month at
a place called Fanatic Salon in Culver.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I know Fanatic Salon. And then, so do you do
stuff with Michael Hitchcock?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I know Michael Hitchcock very well. Sure, yes, Grownlings old
Groundling's friend.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, because he does stuff with the Growlings sometimes. Yeah,
So you're doing you're doing well.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
This is not about me. I mean, it is about it,
but it's not about me. This is about you. That
one of the reasons the reasons I have people on
my show is so that they can help me with
my problems. And this problem that I have, but you
are the perfect person to talk about is this. I
love musicals, and it's impossible to make a good musical.
(05:07):
It's impossible to make things work. It's I don't say
it's possible, it's very hard. And you seem to have
done it on Crazy Ex Girlfriend on a weekly basis,
and I was like, that's super hard and not. I mean,
people take ten years to make Broadway shows that are
not nearly as smart and as good as the weekly
(05:29):
thing that you made. And it's like, why is it
so fucking hard? I guess really is the main reason.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, This is what Adam Slessinger, my late songwriting partner,
who was also doing stuff in theater said. He was like,
I don't understand we do think so quickly on Crazy
Ex Girlfriend? Why why does it take ten years to
develop a theater show?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
But also it's a really difficult needle to thread to
what is good, what is right, and I mean the basics.
Most people don't even understand the basics that a song
shouldn't just be a song, It should move the story along,
should move it thing. So this is me asking you
what gave you the balls for the lack of a
(06:08):
better word, of making that kind of show and saying
I can do this, and we can do this, and
then I won't even talk about the fact that you
executed so well.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But well, first of all, okay, there's a lot, so
many thoughts. Yeah, first of all, it's not like. Many
people have pitched musical shows that didn't get made, including
myself before Crazy ex girlfriend, I was involved in at
least two, and one of them was me fully singing
a song in network pitches, which, by the way, don't
(06:37):
do that, not so much for their end but for
your sake. Well now it's on Zoom, which would be
even worse. But I was twenty four and I was
feed away from people singing in their faces.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You don't you don't want that. It's just you're giving
everything and they're giving nothing to you. Nothing. It's there
have been so many musical TV shows that have been pitched.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Uh, and we almost weren't a show. We were a
showtime pilot. They passed Mark Webb at the CW was like, no,
I want that on my network. And it was also
right place, right time, So I think that. And I
think that also because I come from you come from growlings.
I come from upright citizens brigade. You know how many
talented people there are who just don't don't have that
(07:25):
one person that believe in them.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And so I think the like the credit of like
how do you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
How do you do it all? How do you create
a show? It's like a lot of people can do that.
It's it's the other half is who's gonna pay you
to make this television show? Who's gonna who's gonna take
a chance on you? So that's like the first thing
is I don't think.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
We could get crazy Ex Girlfriend made now? It was?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It was, it was so I was an unknown, it
was a weird musical show.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
The CW really.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Took many risks on unknown young talent that they took
a lot of really made a lot of really interesting choices.
I just don't I don't know if I see a
path for that show now.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
No, I understand that everybody, many people do pitch musical shows,
and musical shows are hard, and then you know amazing
people like Randy Newman or you know Cop Rock. There's
there's been shows where people have been making musicals that
also suck. That's sort of like it's not just that
it's not true.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So here's the other thing is musicals. When people say
like I don't like musicals, I'm like, what do you
literally mean? Are you talking about Oklahoma? Are you talking
about Oklahoma on stage or on film? Are you talking
about Rent? Are you talking about rend on stage? Frum
Pione're talking about Hamilton? Are you talking about La La Land? Musicals?
All a musical is is a play or a script
(08:52):
where there is somehow songs involved, where the actors are
also singing, although some times the songs can be in
voice over right. So that's a really big category. And
I've read some scripts the people said were like, my
script's a musical, and you'll see like there's a scene
and they're like, and then here's blah blah blah a
song about hope or something. It's like, what is the
(09:14):
song song? Like, what's your musical reference? You look at
something like La La Land. That's a really specific musical.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
That is a jazz that has a jazz score.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
The whole thing has this very specific tone, the point
of views, very specific, like it's just really it's just
really different. So crazy ex girlfriend is a is inherently
a satire, right, All of our most of our songs
were satires or pastiches of existing genres because specifically, our
(09:46):
lead character doesn't know who she is inside, and so
she has to reach for examples in the outside world
and try on different personas and try on different characters
to figure out who she is. That's the reason it's so,
that's the reason it's a musical, and it's also why
we burst into song right, is because we're doing satire
and as she kind of meets people around West Kobina,
(10:07):
she almost infects them with her song. Right, So that's
like very very I think targeted and very specific, and
it's different from even I didn't see much of it,
but Gallivant, you know, which was just a straight up fantasy,
kind of medieval fantasy musical show that was on right,
(10:28):
different from Zoe's extraordinary playlist, and that Zoe's is pop song.
Same with Glee, Right, Glee were Glee or just doing
pop covers, not just doing popcar It's very hard.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
They were attempting to make the pop covers be meaningful
in that story though.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yes, so I think when people say I'm going to
pitch a musical.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's what it's what? What are you? What kind of musical?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'll tell you why people hate musicals. Yeah, people who
say I hate musicals, who just say it like that,
They don't the moment somebody sings it disturbs their ability
to believe the story. They're taken out of the story
by the singing. They can watch an action figure like
John Wick kill four thousand people in a you know,
(11:11):
pretend way that is impossible. But the second somebody steps
up to do a song and say.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh, I'm out, I get it. I get that, it's jarring.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And sometimes when I see plays, it takes me a
moment to readjust myself to be like, okay, I'm in
a musical. Also, especially when you're watching musicals, the acting
is more heightened, and so you have to kind of
readjust like, all right, I'm in the world of a musical,
And it takes a couple minutes sometimes for me to Okay,
I'm not watching a film.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I'm in a musical.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
People are going to be bigger, people are going to
be a different tone, and sometimes it's a comment on
the show you're watching, and other times it's just adjusting
to that. But I would say like, yeah, okay, I
don't like it when people burst into song. I I
don't know, like what if it's organic or I don't know,
what if it's diagetic and then is exactly like what
(11:57):
if it's diget and then something diagetic become I mean,
Rocketman is a really well done movie.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Did you see rock Amand of course where it's a.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Lot of those things start out diegetic and then they
go into fantasy sequences. So and you're doing a biopic
about a singer, here's what I find for film and
TV now as opposed to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Like years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Years ago, musicals were part of the large pop culture.
If you're looking at the Golden Age of musicals from
the late forties to the late sixties, the songs people
were listening to on their record players at home, a
lot of them were also the top musicals of the day.
People just listen to My Fair Lady, Frank Sinatra would
cover Sondheims Send in the Clowns.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I mean that's a little post Golden age, but you
get it now. If you're going to do something that
isn't on Broadway that's a musical, you do need a
little bit of an excuse as to why, And that's
with crazy ex girlfriend. We had our excuse that was
always built in, which is she sees her life as
a musical because doing a musical at summer camp was
(13:00):
the last time she was truly happy. We felt like
we had to walk people through why is this show
a musical? And I don't think you would have to
necessarily do that if it were a TV show.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Made in like the sixties or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I think that's the other thing is why is
your TV Why is your TV show musical? Why is
your movie a musical? And that's and that's I would
ask about anything that's on stage too. I took a
musical theater writing class and when I took it through
the grad program at YU, I didn't go there. But
the grad program does this like summer program. Anyway, n
(13:35):
YU doesn't need my they have plenty of money. But
it was a very but it was a very good program,
the summer program. And when we are talking about when
you're making an existing piece of musical, the number one
guideline is what can you say about this piece or
what can you do to improve upon this piece that
making it a musical improves upon as opposed to here's
(13:59):
this piece of IP, let's just make it a musical.
And so what I think in both the audiences of
musicals and people sometimes making them, is there isn't this
targeted why point of view, tone like and it all
goes together like crazy Ex Girlfriend. People in the It
was all people in the writer's room were writing the songs,
(14:20):
and you were the same people filming the songs, were
filming the scenes, and so if a song didn't work
in the story, we lift it out. And likewise, the
songwriting was happening simultaneously to the story writing. And I
was in the writer's room. Jack Dolgin, my other writing partner,
was in the writer's room. It was all very specific
and targeted, and it all worked together.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And you can't just be.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like andah blah blah blah, there's a song or something
here because it's so important to the story.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
The best of all worlds, it's important to the story,
but also at a certain point with crazy ex Girlfriend,
it's also people want it, like your audience is rooting,
where's this great song? What's the next pest?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
These but not the case when we tested. I wasn't
allowed to go to testing because they don't let actors
go to testing.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
No, but horrible, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I've been to a couple testing things. I haven't been
to any of the dials, so this was one where
they had the dials.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
But my but my.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Writing partner Eleen went and she actually said I would
have loved it. The people were quite complimentary of me,
which is nice, but the little so they have a
testing dial of like I like this, I don't. The
first time I burst into song, wow, dial went way down.
And then the second time because it was a pop
song and then people knew the musical numbers were delightful,
(15:33):
it went down a little less.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But it's it is hard, and I get it. It's weird.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
People bursting into song isn't natural, but it's what y
also you're saying is fast and the furious natural, Like
so much of this isn't natural. I remember a friend
of mine was bashing theater and he was like, sucks,
and my friend was like, what do you think Deadwood is?
Deadwood is Shakespeare? Deadwood is Shakespeare in the West. No
one talks like that. I mean, and Deadwood was literally
(16:00):
written in this. It was so dense in this beautiful
Shakespeare away, So that's not Yeah, I guess it looks real.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It looks gritty, but like this was this flowery speech.
This isn't real.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And so I think that it's a It's also like
a testament to action. Movies are much more part of
the culture, and musicals are more of a nerdy niche
thing exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I think that's the isolation of theater. Musical theater from
the rest of popular culture is frustrating. Yeah, and so
that's that's that's the drag.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Don't be alone with joke.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Musical theater is one of the only, uh truly like
American made art forms. A musical theater is you have
the opera, but the art of really weaving story into
song that is Americ that started in America.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, and jazz, there's a few, there's a few of.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
The well, but jazz is also an American art. Yes,
so it's jazz, it's it's but it's so you have.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Jazz musical theater, right, and you have and of course
you have you know, it comes like yeah, porgy and best.
You have jazz and musicals coming together, culminating in Oklahoma,
which I think was the first technical musical that put
story into song. But anyway, it's to support musical theaters,
to be patriotic.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
That's I'm very patriotic. What's the best musical period?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I don't know. I mean, you know, of course I
have my favorites.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I mean, I think best is an best is a
really interesting.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Look.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
The first time I saw Hamilton, I burst into tears.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was I was also very sleep deprived. I was
in New York.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I just won the Golden Globe, but I was in
New York and I bought a ticket to see Hamilton
and the people around me treating a music about a
musical about history like it was Star Wars. I started sobbing.
I was like, oh my god, we've arrived. I'm not
just a doork anymore. I think Hamilton's a masterpiece. Look
you get into the Sondheims. For me, Assassins is just
(18:20):
like amazing. And I think what that show does with
pastiche and commentary is so important.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Chicago's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm a very as you can say, I'm a very
kind of like satire person, but like, look, Fiddler on
the Roof isn't is in your flawless musical chorus line
is in your flawless musical, I don't know there are
so there are just so many.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
For me, it's it's honestly oddly enough. How to succeed
in business without really trying is my favorite perfect musical
of all time. Have a theater like Singing the Rain
if movie musical versus musical stage.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Fantastic, And that's also a great musical. The songs are
so good, the story is so good. It makes sense
why it's a musical. I mean, Guys and Dolls is
super up there. There's a reason it's done all the time.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Adelaide fantastic. You know, well, you got famous at the
very start for making music videos, and so was it
always music? Like was music from the very beginning. It's
like I got to do, you know, fuck Ray Bradberry. Whatever,
I'm going to do my music. That's how I'm going
(19:30):
to get in. That's my thing.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I was always a musical theater performer.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I majored.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I went to college for musical theater, and then I
really quickly fell in love with sketch comedy. I got
into a sketch comedy group, and the thing that I
was fascinated by was how disparate My sense of humor
change the second I started to really be immersed in
comedians and being on a sketch group. Suddenly a lot
of the stuff I thought was funny in musical theater,
I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Oh, that's not a good joke. That's kind of especially.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Because a lot of musicals are from the fifties and sixties,
and you know, comedy from men is a little dated.
And I at the time noticed there was there were
virtually no things overlapping modern comedy with musical theater. It
was like Gutenberg, which was an off Broadway show that
had closed just before I got to New York Avenue Q,
(20:20):
You're in town.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And I noticed because when I was looking for audition songs,
I was like, none of these songs are funny. Like
every audition song that's like, oh you're oh you want
a good female audition song.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Everything was just like my shoes untied, My shoes untied?
Who will tie my shoes for me? Like it was like,
it's barely funny. It's just like she's so quirky because
her shoes are undet So I got the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Character, Oh, great character because her shoes are there was
a very act, but there was a very low comedy
bar for musical theater that I was like, that doesn't
need to be there, because musical theater is actually really
wonderful form of storytelling and when done right joke delivery,
I mean south Park, Bigger, longer, and uncut. Stephen Sondheim
said it was one of the best musicals I think
(21:09):
of the century.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
There's a reason, he said that. It's because it's a fantastically.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well done, well told, well written, targeted musical. So I
started doing stuff. I put up a solo musical sketch
show at UCB, and then everyone around me, including my
boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband I've been
my husband for very long time, was making was starting
to film their sketches and putting them on YouTube, and
(21:35):
I was like, oh, I should do that. And I
had had an idea for a song called fuck Me
Ray Bradberry that I'd just been kind of noodling on
for a while, and I was like, is this a sketch?
What inspired it? Was just doing like a sexy pop
song about what actually attracts me, which is like guys
who are smart, but also the writing of Ray Brett
(21:56):
and then I was like, oh, this could be a
music this could be a music video. I could make
this my calling.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Card and you get feedback from Ray Bradbury.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah yeah, And I met him. Okay, it was awesome.
It was so great. Now he loved it.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I met him once. I never did a song about
sucking him though. Well that's the difference exactly. I know.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
No, when I showed up to meet him, I was
I dressed very concerned because I wanted to be you know,
at the time, I was like, okay, well because it
was a parody of Baby one more time, and I
was like, I want him to take me seriously. So
I wore a very high necked shirt and we just
talked about his writing the whole time. I was like, no,
I want to be taken right seriously because in a
lot of those music videos I was also parodying sex.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
But of course.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Knowing that when you show your tits that'll go viral
on the internet, and like I.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Worked for me. I've tried to show my tits plenty,
and it just doesn't I got a lot of letters
saying stuff, yeah, that's me, that's me. It's fine. No,
I mean the videos The early videos are very funny,
and so congratulations to you and your husband for making them.
I guess he did he well.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
He always had like look he was. I was always
with him, so he always had like an opinion. He
was making separate videos. This is a whole other story.
He started selling stuff. He started selling pilots when he
was like twenty two twenty three. He was on the
sketch group called Chubby Skinny Kids. It's him his still
his writing partner, Doug Man, and then Adam Pally, who's
like an amazing comedian actor show. So they have a
(23:17):
three person sketch group and they were writing these scripts
and they decided to just like, we have a nice camera,
let's just start making sizzle reels of these scripts. And
they started selling like a ton of these scripts from
actually just filming what they wrote. So I was like, oh,
I remember my husband saying people don't want to read,
just give him something to watch. And he there was
(23:38):
a run where he would sell you something to NBC
and CBS when networks had pilot season. He was selling
a ton of these pilots. So that definitely inspired me.
But later he directed some of my music videos and
then a couple episodes of Crazy X, and he co
wrote the new Naked Gun that's coming out.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Oh fantastic, yea, I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's really funny. I've seated early.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's I mean, I'm biased, but I think it's fucking amazing.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So I'm picturing in the uh in the nineties that
Manhattan Beach has this renaissance of really smart art musical
kids going on. Like, is that what's going on? Iscus
you're you're from I'm basically from La Yeah, I know
the South Bank, I know Manhattan. I don't particularly picture
a lot of Jewish art kids running around in Manhattan Beach.
(24:27):
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't really understand what happened. My grandfather was really
involved with community theater. My grandfather was a director and
an actor for a lot of community theater.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
He did a lot of.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Work with this theater company, the Kentwood Players, which I
believe still exists. And he was also an amateur stand
up comedian and he performed at convalescent homes. His real
passion was he my grandpa wanted to be in entertainment,
but he you know, that's that's a it's it's it's
gibber like I'm going to go into entertainment. So he
(25:02):
was very, very smart. He was very good at math,
and so we had this job in math, but his
real passion was theater. Right, So I was raised on
My mom was very good at music from a young age,
and so she would play piano for my grandpa parties
while he'd sang. And then once they realized that I
was a little showman, my grandpa started teaching me songs,
(25:23):
drilling me on songs, and my mom would play piano
and I would sing, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
What's the earliest song you remember performing for mom and grandpa?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I mean school days, school days, school days, dear old
Golden Rule days. Because you're getting taught music by someone
born in nineteen twenty one, all I do the whole
day through is dream of You, fantastic Okay, And then
California Here I Come, all right? That was probably the one.
And then my first performance they wrote it up in
(25:52):
the local paper. I was about five or six and
my grandpa was performing stand up at this free thank
Giving show at the Kawanas Club.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It was like.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
A free Thanksgiving dinner where they would have performance, and
I got up and saying this, I'll come out tomorrow fantastic.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
How long was Grandpa's set?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Like, I have a whole I have a I have
a whole set of his on video playing the Manhattan
Beach Hometown Fair. Oh yeah, let me tell you something
about the Manhattan Beach Hometown Fair. They did not want
an old Jewish community. They wanted they wanted rock. They
wanted Scott. I mean, so I have his whole set
at this fair. So so my the family. It was
(26:32):
just kind of this cat's skillsy borsch belt vibe that
I really really connected with. And we weren't really an
outdoorsy family. We were a theatery family.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
It made no sense. It made no sense. It still
makes It made no sense. It was Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah. Are you worried about raising a child in Los Angeles?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
No more than anywhere else. I don't. I think, why?
Why why should I should? I be?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Well, I know, I listen, I raised that. My son
grew up in Los Angeles and I was raised in
Los Angeles. A lot of people worry. They talk about this,
that's a big issue, like, well, it's to show busy,
it's too shallow, you know, some of the same things
that people say when they grow up in Manhattan, that
life is too fast, there's too much exposure to bad things.
(27:22):
But more of it's you know, status seekers, and it's
like this whole world of people that you want to
sort of get your kids away from and not worry
about this sort of status that is our concern.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'll say that my husband said something about us because
I said to him one time, I was like, why
don't we have more Like we have some friends who cultivate,
like billionaire friends, you know, and they just happened to
go to their villas.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And I went, why don't we have more friends like that.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I've been doing a lot of TV, you know, we're
well known, and he says to me, we stink of
middle class. So I think that we stink of middle class.
We have a little bit of hubris of like we
don't do that. So I think we're very aware of
like not being gross. We're not sending her to schools
that would I think where people are insufferable, or at
(28:09):
least we're trying that.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
We're trying not to hard to find that school.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It's hard to.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Find that in La But I think it comes from
your fan I think it comes from your family value.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
But there's nothing wrong with cultivating billionaire friends. I got
to say, those are some good vacations. I know, you.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Know, but we stink of middle class.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
It's all right, you can pretend you can dress up
theater style.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I don't have the like, do you have a monocle?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I damn it, monical, that's my advice, by monical, and
a bag with the dollar exactly, and then you're then
you're fine. Then the mid billionaires like you. How old
is she? No, she's five, fantastic, great age. Okay, so
like a person, she's a person.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It's the best. You just have one.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I just have one.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I think we're one and done. I feel like it's
that's the secret.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah. Well, I mean we tried. My wife and I
tried for too, but we never we never got there.
Science science helped us create the one.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I got it, okay, so and then.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Science failed to create the set. So I blame science
for everything.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
See I'm an only child too, so that's the template.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I know.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, but yeah, she's great. I love she has a
point of view in a personality, and she has great style.
She dresses herself and her outfits are wild, and she
found there were a couple of years that I did
backstage correspondent work at the Tony Awards, and my bit
was that I was always wearing a tiny hat and
I saw and it was like a fat but it's
like really tiny hat. It's like a haircliped tiny hat.
(29:30):
She found those tiny hats and now they're part of
her wardrobe. She'll wear one of the tiny hats at
least once a week.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Sometimes we call her baby Sherman Palladino. Yeah, she'll wear
one of those top hats.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Sure, that's that's a delight. I remember seeing you at
the at the Tony Awards backstage and you were like
a fangirl.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah that's all I was. I was just finger like,
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It's good, Like yeah, it was fantastic. It was a
lot of fun. Seemed like a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I try to just have fun. I remember when crazy
ex girlfriend, when everything happened, Mark Petowitz out of the
CW wonderful Brooklyn jew I mean, just the best. I
remember he called he.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Went enjoy it. He just kept saying enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And I get what he was talking where he's like,
this doesn't happen every day. Just enjoy every second. And
I think about the last year Crazy X ended. We
played Radio City Music Hall, we went to London, we
played the London Palladium. There were some of the most
special moments of my life. I had these amazing I
(30:30):
went to Paris, I had this amazing vacation, and then
COVID happened, and it was like I treated that last
year of Crazy X. It's almost as if I knew
the world was about to shut down and everything was
about to change, because I got pregnant also summer of
twenty nineteen, so I kind of knew my life was
gonna change. But all you can do is just enjoy it.
(30:54):
I think about him saying enjoy it in my ear
all the time.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It's interesting you should say that, because I've been trying
to find joy in these tough times, and it's really hard,
because if you look at the news, it's hard. If
you look at chow business, it's hard. If you look
at the environment, it's hard. If you look at like
you know, the world, any which direction you look, there's
a little bit of difficulty. And yet there's a lot
(31:17):
of funny stuff and a lot of you know, we
can do our best to enjoy life, but it's very
it gets harder.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh, it's very it's very hard.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And part of the question of what can I contribute,
what art can I contribute?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Know?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
What do I want to see? Is how can I
really help the world?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
How what what can I actually do that's going to
make a positive difference around me? Uh and not feel
like I'm pissing in the wind and that Those are
also questions I've been asking.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Those are big questions. Do you really think that that
that art, your art or anybody's art is helping specifically
really help? I know it's helping.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Oh, I guess I'm also just talking about things in general,
like helping my community, not even through art. Just what
are the ways I can help I can be nice
to people.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I would be stifled if I said I have to
write something I think will help the world. Oh no,
I would I would first shoot my lage.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No that I can't know that I don't that.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I still I still have to think of what do
I want to see that people aren't making. Because as
far as what can I do that will help the world,
it's self selecting there's so much to watch now the
people who a lot of people are going to have
my point of view, are going to watch the things
that I make right, And so I think this idea
of like I'm going to change the world with my art,
(32:32):
but also know your audience. Look, I'm really proud that
Crazy Ex Girlfriend. We did a lot with mental health
on that show.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
We really really.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Explored it, and I don't think anyone watching it was
closed off to mental health, but I but I think
that there was a lot that people didn't know. And
I've had people, in a wonderful way tell me that
like watching the show, it inspired them to go to therapy,
it inspired them to go on medication and get diannosed.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's awesome, And we were doing that as part of
telling the story of this character. If you know, setting
out to make a difference, you can never control how people.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Are going to interpret.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Don't be alone with.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Your show Death, Let me do my special. Fantastic and
a lot of fun. Also very sad because it's about
hits about death and tough. Did you was that a cathartic?
Did you get through emotional things by doing that?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
The process of creating the show was the Catharsis. I
think like the process of getting up and doing it. Like,
by the time it was off Broadway, I had told
the story so much. It was it was actually much
more than about honing the show, but the first couple
of years of developing it and just getting up on
stage and telling the story, but also prepping before the
(34:07):
show and saying, what do I actually want to say
with this show?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It was it helped.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
The show helped me figure out a lot of what
I thought about death and felt about it.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And how.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Giving birth during the pandemic and Adam dying when that happened,
how that really changed myself. And that's something that I
still really get out of writing, is writing does help
me codify where I'm at with things in my life,
because you have to. You have to be like, well,
what's the theme of this is? What's the question? What
am I trying to say? My husband and I are
(34:41):
working right now. We have this pilot with ABC called
Do You Want Kids, which is about one world where
a couple has kids in the other world where they don't,
And we were really in wonderful ways having to codify, Okay,
what is our point of view of having a kid.
What's our point of view? And what are we trying
to say about monogamy? What do we think about monogamy?
And it's that's what's wonderful about writing.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah that is My wife has not opened the question
of what do I think about monogamy? It's not not yet.
Maybe I'll bring it up at dinner tonight. We'll see
what happens.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And when I say monogamy, I guess I mean less
open marriage and more like you are with one person
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And how and how do you what is that staying power?
And how do you make that new and exciting and write.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Or do you need to In other words, uh, I
don't know that. I don't know that one needs to
to make it new and exciting. What it does when
you stick with somebody for a while is you wind
up working out a lot of the stuff. Yeah, the issues,
and then that's the that's the secret sauce of it
is like if you break up, if you leave and
(35:48):
find somebody else, you got to work out the same issues.
It's still there. It's like do you put it off
or do you keep going? Whereas the particular person you
chose this time so horrible. A lot of work your
issues out with that person.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, So we're My wife and I are still in our.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
First how long How long have you been together?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
We have been married for twenty eight years, and we
were together a few years before that, so you know, thirty.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
There was just a big article in The Atlantic about
how comedians actually have surprisingly long lasting marriages and why
that is.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Well, why is it?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I didn't read the article.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I'd love to know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I got to read it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I think it's because you laugh at yourself and you
don't have to everything is you can have a moment,
you can have a moment where you're angry, and then
you can you can laugh at the ridiculous, and you
can also be and I think you can. I think
comedians are really self aware, and so even when I'm
having a disagreement with my husband, I also know, well,
I'm feeling really emotional right now, but at the end
(36:49):
of the day, like we're both coming from a good place,
Like there's a there's a perspective I think on people's motivation.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
I got to read the article, all right, when that
was time for question time, You've answered my question about musicals,
which is good luck. Good luck buddy. Yeah, that's really
the answer. Good luck. I'm writing a musical with my
son right now.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That's so sweet.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
He's a musician, singer, songwriter, musician. He actually just did
a funny passover video. So it's a Jewish themed video.
You did a Jewish theme video.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think I've done numerous music video You've never done
a passover one.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
What's it called.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Flex its Let my people flow? And it's a inappropriate
passover wrapp, dirty filthy passover rapp.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I can't wait to listen to it, all right.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
So here this is question time is question. This is
from PJ who wrote what are her Memories of her
London Shows? What he kind of said it was just.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Talking about it.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
My London shows were so special. It was at the
Palladium where Judy Garland sat on the edge of the
stage and so I did that in the shows. Remember
when Adam sang the song What'll It Be? Everyone got
out their phones and it was, you know, twenty five
hundred people all doing that with their phones. I loved
those London those those Londons. Radio City was special. There
was something really really special about those London shows.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And also Adam died and so there.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I will always have a really special place in my
heart for those shows because we did these unbelievable gigs
in London and then you know, in geological time, it
was a second later he passed away.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean, how heartbreak. I was always a fan
of Fountains of Wayne, and I didn't know the depths
of his talent. It's unbelievable until he started doing other
things like that thing you do but in your show
is like, I was so impressed with all of it,
and what a tragedy.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I think he was maybe less than halfway through his career.
Actually he was fifty two, and I think he was
going to live to be one hundred and six and
still writing song.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Yeah, it's clear to me. I don't know a thing
about your relationship, but it's clear to me that you
guys had a connection like you do what they lean
where it's sort of like maybe second nature. Maybe you guys.
I don't know how much you guys are communicating, but
you seem like you're on the same wavelength on a
lot of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Absolutely, I mean me and him and then and Jack too.
It was always about what's going to be the best.
I think that's and we all kind of had that
north star of what's.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
The point of this song? When what's going to be
the best for this.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Not just what's going to be funny?
Speaker 1 (39:33):
It was funn what's going to be best for the song.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
But also what's going to be best for the song
and what's going to be what's the point it's making
in the show? Yes, and that's that's everything. Grumpy Cat writes, Well,
I loved her show and wished it went on longer.
I can't think of a question, but she's so funny
and talented. I loved the unspeakable things she poked fun at.
Oh there you go there, grumpy Cat Paco writes, Oh
(39:57):
my god, I love like Rachel Bloom. Which one of
the dancing singing drug commercials is their favorite?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
I know which one?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
God, I'm not up on them. What's your favorite?
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Guardians? The Jardians dancers. They're dancing, They're sort of overweight,
but they're still dancing. Yeah, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Okay, I gotta get I got I should have an
answer for that. Actually my research.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Feel free to still drive James, He writes, would you
say you are a comedian, a dancer, a singer, a writer,
or none of the above or all of the above.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Dancer is a stretch. I mean, I can dance, but
that's I can dance, but I'm not a dancer.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I would say I lead with like comedian because it
encompasses a bunch of things. But you could say all
that except for dancer.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
That's a lot. That's a stretch.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Dance, I can I can tap.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
But your identity to you is comedian.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I guess, so, yeah, I think comedian.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Comedian is the closest to I don't know, comedian writer, actor,
because I do picture comedian being like a stand up
a specific to stand up comedy, which I do, so
I would say.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Comedian, writer, actors. Then you ought to add singer. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
All right, Well, it's nice to be all those many heights.
It's not a problem to be all those things, all right.
So then here's this is a listener mail.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Now it's time for listener man.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
All right, Rachel Bloom, this is a question that's not
meant for you, but that was brought to me. Uh
And said dear Jay and guest and so since you're
the guest today, dear Jay and guest, how can you
effectively experience grief without being totally incapacitated by it?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I guess from what I know about grief, both personally
and also on a finamental level, is sometimes you have
to be incapacitated by it, right, It's just how long
is that? In have to how long? How long is
that incapacitation?
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Right? And the process of grieving is many things. First
it's being wiped out by it. Then it's being putting it,
finding a way to put it in its spot and
those memories in the spot. And sometimes it's writing a
one woman show. And sometimes it's something helps you get
through it. You never put the grief totally away, but
you have put it in its place.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, I think it's kind of bespoke for everyone. It's
what it's kind of what helps you feel better, Like
you have to grieve, you have to be incapacitated. And
then if you're like, Okay, I need to move on
with my life, what's going to help you do that?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And that's different.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
This person is saying if she can't is holly, she
can't move on with her life, She's having trouble moving
on with her life. And my suggestion is work at
not living in that dark place all the time. That's
just like grief depression. There's some things that you can
be overwhelmed by, and you can get your life's work
(43:01):
to be in grief and make it your life's work
to be in depression. It does take effort to realize
there's better ways to spend your time, and you can
find a way to place that grief in a moment
of your day or several moments of your day and
find slowly a way to do other things with your day. Yeah,
(43:22):
to get past it.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
I don't know, Yeah, I mean I think my suggestion
also was a good good therapist to help you figure
out when when is this?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Like, Yeah, that's where you and I disagree. Do not
go to professional therapy for deep depression or grief. Comedy writers.
Comedy writers are really who you want to go to.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, exactly, it's.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Fantastic, Yes, of course therapy. And now it's time for
the moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
A moment of joy?
Speaker 4 (43:52):
What gives you joy? What can you either can you
go to physically or in your mind, or can you
do that makes you happy? And I exclude your family
and your child and your work.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
This is a very easy answer for me. The scene
in Austin Powers where he's fighting an assassin over a
toilet and he's saying, who does number two work for?
Who does number two work for? And Tom Arnold is
in the stall next to him. That scene, I'm just
thinking about it. Okay, that's that's the scene. Who does
number two work for?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Well? How did you feel about the drinking of the
beaker of poop?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't love that scene.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
But also Austin Powers too was my favorite movie for
a number of years, So I don't love the poop
beaker of poop scene, but look, fat bastard, what a character.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
When I was pregnant, I would regularly be like, oh
my baby.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Yeah, Mike Myers is a genius. I had the bad advice.
I think I told him you got to cut that
scene out where you drink the poop. It's too it's
not funny.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Oh like you were you saw an early cut.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Yeah, I picked. I worked on that and it's like
and uh and pitched jokes a few jokes and stuff
like that, and he showed it's like, that's the it's
not gonna work. People are just gonna be gross, pretty gross,
and he said nutty. It was one of the biggest
laughs no screening. Oh yeah, it's I couldn't have been
more wrong. Like my my taste is kind of you
(45:20):
try to give your best advice and you tell people
and you think, I know, I don't know everything, but
I know that, and then you find out, no, I
don't even know that. I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I realized, Wow, I was just rewatching it. We're the
making Rob low cry with the bouncing globe. Is so
is actually, like, I think, a really underrated comedic moment
from that movie.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Interesting that you were like beaker of poop.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yeah it was. I did the same thing with the
Do you ever see The Nutty Professor with Eddie Murphy.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yes, that's been a while. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
There's a big fart scene in that one. And I
was like, I told Tom Shady act the director, don't
do it.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
This is a podcast of all of the things you
took people not to do it.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
They did it, and they did it anyway, and we're
two huge, huge success.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Yes, So I guess.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I could call it like my instincts are wrong.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Reverse engineer your success with j Coogan so that anybody
can give me something and then do the opposite of
what I say at all times.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
What did you see when you watched Austin Powers?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Was it just two? Or do you also advise on one?
Speaker 4 (46:20):
One, two and three?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (46:22):
One, two and three. I was in the Mike Myers
camp for brief moments.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So did you know that who does number two work for?
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Would be?
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I thought it was gonna be really funny.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Oh yeah, that was so good.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Funny the guys. The guy is super super super super
funny and enormously talented.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oh my god, the scene of Mini Me we were
I was trying to show my five year olds some
of Boston Powers too, and then I realized none of
it's appropriate for five year olds.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Of course it's not.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
But like the scene of many Me catting into his
space suit on the spaceship like climbing, and it's so good.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
The filming was very hard because that actor was not
well most of the time. Oh no, yes, bones are
fact like this problem super small.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
But oh and that scene is so active. That's such
an action scene.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It was.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
But we do what we have to do. For comedy. Yeah,
of course he did well. Rachel, this is so nice
of you to be here. I uh is fantastic. I'm
a huge fan. I can't wait for this uh parent
show that's gonna go. I mean, it's no, it's going
to be made. It's going to be made. It's going
to be on the schedule very very soon.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Okay, Okay, I'm telling you that's just all right.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Uh, although I would advise against it, does that help?
Maybe that does? Does think that it's not going to
be made? ABC don't make it? So maybe say that.
I don't know. Anyway, thank you for being here. You're
wonderful and thank you for being here. If you have
any comments or questions, right to me at dB A
w j K at gmail dot com. And uh, don't
you don't be alone. You sit with somebody, talk with them,
(47:59):
get to know them. It's going to make you happy.
I promise see you next time.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Don't be alone with change Cogain
Speaker 2 (48:10):
M
Strawhut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Rachel Bloom and I'm just fine being alone
with Jake Cogan makes me feel safe.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Don't be alone with jj Cogan.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Hi, welcome to don't be alone with Jake Cogan. I am,
of course Jake Hogan, and you are cognation. Does that
work your Cogan nights? I'm not sure. You guys, write
in and tell me right in at dbawjka at gmail
dot com, any of your comments, suggestions, your queries. The
other thing you can do, it's very exciting for you,
(00:40):
is you can subscribe to the show. Just press the
subscribe button on YouTube or whatever you listen to, but
more YouTube. YouTube is the one go to YouTube. Even
if you don't watch the show on YouTube. Go to
YouTube like the show and then go back and listen
to it on Spotify or Apple Music, wherever you go.
Because the more people that subscribe the show on YouTube,
(01:01):
the more I can get really big, big advertisers, and
I'm hoping for drug companies. Moving on, we have a
great show for you today. It is the delightful Rachel Bloom.
She had an incredible show called Crazy Ex Girlfriend, where
each week she talked about a woman who was trying
(01:22):
to get her old boyfriend back, and through that show,
it wasn't just about that. It was about relationships and
about love and about life and about mental health. And
it was beautiful and funny and magical and a wonderful show.
And I'm still to this day a big fan. I
watched the musical numbers online whenever I can, I watch
(01:46):
the shows in rerun. I'm just a huge fan of it.
I was a fan of Rachel did a special called
Death Let Me do My Special, and it's really great.
It's about her experience having a baby and also having
one of her very best friends die, and it was
moving and beautiful. So Rachel is a kindred spirit because
(02:09):
she she believes in comedy and she believes in music. Uh,
and she believes in musicals, and so do I. And
I don't find that many people who love musicals as
much as I do. I love them, and I'm wondering
why people don't. And I'm wondering what makes a good musical,
and I'm wondering what made her so good. So when
we come back, we'll talk to her about all these
things and more with a great Rachel.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Blue, don't be alone.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Because you're such a kind to come here.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Gift.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, this is for you. Towels, Thank you. I figure
everybody everybody could use paper towels. And it's bounty the
quicker picker.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Pick her up bounty thank you song.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Because I'm Jewish. Here's the receipt just in case.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I want to get something cheaper and then take
some of the money.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's up to you. So much to you. That's grad
us from the show. That's just from the show to you.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I don't know if this is ironic, but this is
actually a really good gift for me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
It's a good gift for anyone.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
It's start giving. This is a gift.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah, that's what if you're if you're still around at
Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Paper towels. Really well, that's a great gift.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's a great gift.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Everyone will use it.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Yeah, it's it's fantastic. So I'm officially welcome Rachel Bloom.
Thank you very much for being here. So fantastic. I'm
such a fan of yours, and particularly of Crazy Girlfriend,
but also special and of the things. I'm a fan
of your life on TikTok, like you the parties that
(03:50):
you have and the parties.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yes, I had my spelling be birthday party.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
There was a party, which bind the way.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I should have just that that that was such a
I rented out a gym. I mean that was I
should have just told everyone it was fantastic.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
But I see you doing improv with people and things,
It's like, this is fantastic. That's what a great life
that you're living.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm very very lucky. Do you do improv? You come
from it.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm from the groundings. I'm a ground you go to
perform a grounds all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And we just didn't improve too.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Oh yeah, I did improv show the Saturday at the
place I've been an improv group for many many years
called the Transformers, and we do once a month at
a place called Fanatic Salon in Culver.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I know Fanatic Salon. And then, so do you do
stuff with Michael Hitchcock?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I know Michael Hitchcock very well. Sure, yes, Grownlings old
Groundling's friend.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, because he does stuff with the Growlings sometimes. Yeah,
So you're doing you're doing well.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
This is not about me. I mean, it is about it,
but it's not about me. This is about you. That
one of the reasons the reasons I have people on
my show is so that they can help me with
my problems. And this problem that I have, but you
are the perfect person to talk about is this. I
love musicals, and it's impossible to make a good musical.
(05:07):
It's impossible to make things work. It's I don't say
it's possible, it's very hard. And you seem to have
done it on Crazy Ex Girlfriend on a weekly basis,
and I was like, that's super hard and not. I mean,
people take ten years to make Broadway shows that are
not nearly as smart and as good as the weekly
(05:29):
thing that you made. And it's like, why is it
so fucking hard? I guess really is the main reason.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, This is what Adam Slessinger, my late songwriting partner,
who was also doing stuff in theater said. He was like,
I don't understand we do think so quickly on Crazy
Ex Girlfriend? Why why does it take ten years to
develop a theater show?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
But also it's a really difficult needle to thread to
what is good, what is right, and I mean the basics.
Most people don't even understand the basics that a song
shouldn't just be a song, It should move the story along,
should move it thing. So this is me asking you
what gave you the balls for the lack of a
(06:08):
better word, of making that kind of show and saying
I can do this, and we can do this, and
then I won't even talk about the fact that you
executed so well.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But well, first of all, okay, there's a lot, so
many thoughts. Yeah, first of all, it's not like. Many
people have pitched musical shows that didn't get made, including
myself before Crazy ex girlfriend, I was involved in at
least two, and one of them was me fully singing
a song in network pitches, which, by the way, don't
(06:37):
do that, not so much for their end but for
your sake. Well now it's on Zoom, which would be
even worse. But I was twenty four and I was
feed away from people singing in their faces.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You don't you don't want that. It's just you're giving
everything and they're giving nothing to you. Nothing. It's there
have been so many musical TV shows that have been pitched.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Uh, and we almost weren't a show. We were a
showtime pilot. They passed Mark Webb at the CW was like, no,
I want that on my network. And it was also
right place, right time, So I think that. And I
think that also because I come from you come from growlings.
I come from upright citizens brigade. You know how many
talented people there are who just don't don't have that
(07:25):
one person that believe in them.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And so I think the like the credit of like
how do you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
How do you do it all? How do you create
a show? It's like a lot of people can do that.
It's it's the other half is who's gonna pay you
to make this television show? Who's gonna who's gonna take
a chance on you? So that's like the first thing
is I don't think.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
We could get crazy Ex Girlfriend made now? It was?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It was, it was so I was an unknown, it
was a weird musical show.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
The CW really.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Took many risks on unknown young talent that they took
a lot of really made a lot of really interesting choices.
I just don't I don't know if I see a
path for that show now.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
No, I understand that everybody, many people do pitch musical shows,
and musical shows are hard, and then you know amazing
people like Randy Newman or you know Cop Rock. There's
there's been shows where people have been making musicals that
also suck. That's sort of like it's not just that
it's not true.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So here's the other thing is musicals. When people say
like I don't like musicals, I'm like, what do you
literally mean? Are you talking about Oklahoma? Are you talking
about Oklahoma on stage or on film? Are you talking
about Rent? Are you talking about rend on stage? Frum
Pione're talking about Hamilton? Are you talking about La La Land? Musicals?
All a musical is is a play or a script
(08:52):
where there is somehow songs involved, where the actors are
also singing, although some times the songs can be in
voice over right. So that's a really big category. And
I've read some scripts the people said were like, my
script's a musical, and you'll see like there's a scene
and they're like, and then here's blah blah blah a
song about hope or something. It's like, what is the
(09:14):
song song? Like, what's your musical reference? You look at
something like La La Land. That's a really specific musical.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
That is a jazz that has a jazz score.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
The whole thing has this very specific tone, the point
of views, very specific, like it's just really it's just
really different. So crazy ex girlfriend is a is inherently
a satire, right, All of our most of our songs
were satires or pastiches of existing genres because specifically, our
(09:46):
lead character doesn't know who she is inside, and so
she has to reach for examples in the outside world
and try on different personas and try on different characters
to figure out who she is. That's the reason it's so,
that's the reason it's a musical, and it's also why
we burst into song right, is because we're doing satire
and as she kind of meets people around West Kobina,
(10:07):
she almost infects them with her song. Right, So that's
like very very I think targeted and very specific, and
it's different from even I didn't see much of it,
but Gallivant, you know, which was just a straight up fantasy,
kind of medieval fantasy musical show that was on right,
(10:28):
different from Zoe's extraordinary playlist, and that Zoe's is pop song.
Same with Glee, Right, Glee were Glee or just doing
pop covers, not just doing popcar It's very hard.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
They were attempting to make the pop covers be meaningful
in that story though.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yes, so I think when people say I'm going to
pitch a musical.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's what it's what? What are you? What kind of musical?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'll tell you why people hate musicals. Yeah, people who
say I hate musicals, who just say it like that,
They don't the moment somebody sings it disturbs their ability
to believe the story. They're taken out of the story
by the singing. They can watch an action figure like
John Wick kill four thousand people in a you know,
(11:11):
pretend way that is impossible. But the second somebody steps
up to do a song and say.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh, I'm out, I get it. I get that, it's jarring.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And sometimes when I see plays, it takes me a
moment to readjust myself to be like, okay, I'm in
a musical. Also, especially when you're watching musicals, the acting
is more heightened, and so you have to kind of
readjust like, all right, I'm in the world of a musical,
And it takes a couple minutes sometimes for me to Okay,
I'm not watching a film.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I'm in a musical.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
People are going to be bigger, people are going to
be a different tone, and sometimes it's a comment on
the show you're watching, and other times it's just adjusting
to that. But I would say like, yeah, okay, I
don't like it when people burst into song. I I
don't know, like what if it's organic or I don't know,
what if it's diagetic and then is exactly like what
(11:57):
if it's diget and then something diagetic become I mean,
Rocketman is a really well done movie.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Did you see rock Amand of course where it's a.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Lot of those things start out diegetic and then they
go into fantasy sequences. So and you're doing a biopic
about a singer, here's what I find for film and
TV now as opposed to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Like years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Years ago, musicals were part of the large pop culture.
If you're looking at the Golden Age of musicals from
the late forties to the late sixties, the songs people
were listening to on their record players at home, a
lot of them were also the top musicals of the day.
People just listen to My Fair Lady, Frank Sinatra would
cover Sondheims Send in the Clowns.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I mean that's a little post Golden age, but you
get it now. If you're going to do something that
isn't on Broadway that's a musical, you do need a
little bit of an excuse as to why, And that's
with crazy ex girlfriend. We had our excuse that was
always built in, which is she sees her life as
a musical because doing a musical at summer camp was
(13:00):
the last time she was truly happy. We felt like
we had to walk people through why is this show
a musical? And I don't think you would have to
necessarily do that if it were a TV show.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Made in like the sixties or whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I think that's the other thing is why is
your TV Why is your TV show musical? Why is
your movie a musical? And that's and that's I would
ask about anything that's on stage too. I took a
musical theater writing class and when I took it through
the grad program at YU, I didn't go there. But
the grad program does this like summer program. Anyway, n
(13:35):
YU doesn't need my they have plenty of money. But
it was a very but it was a very good program,
the summer program. And when we are talking about when
you're making an existing piece of musical, the number one
guideline is what can you say about this piece or
what can you do to improve upon this piece that
making it a musical improves upon as opposed to here's
(13:59):
this piece of IP, let's just make it a musical.
And so what I think in both the audiences of
musicals and people sometimes making them, is there isn't this
targeted why point of view, tone like and it all
goes together like crazy Ex Girlfriend. People in the It
was all people in the writer's room were writing the songs,
(14:20):
and you were the same people filming the songs, were
filming the scenes, and so if a song didn't work
in the story, we lift it out. And likewise, the
songwriting was happening simultaneously to the story writing. And I
was in the writer's room. Jack Dolgin, my other writing partner,
was in the writer's room. It was all very specific
and targeted, and it all worked together.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And you can't just be.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like andah blah blah blah, there's a song or something
here because it's so important to the story.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
The best of all worlds, it's important to the story,
but also at a certain point with crazy ex Girlfriend,
it's also people want it, like your audience is rooting,
where's this great song? What's the next pest?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
These but not the case when we tested. I wasn't
allowed to go to testing because they don't let actors
go to testing.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
No, but horrible, it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I've been to a couple testing things. I haven't been
to any of the dials, so this was one where
they had the dials.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
But my but my.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Writing partner Eleen went and she actually said I would
have loved it. The people were quite complimentary of me,
which is nice, but the little so they have a
testing dial of like I like this, I don't. The
first time I burst into song, wow, dial went way down.
And then the second time because it was a pop
song and then people knew the musical numbers were delightful,
(15:33):
it went down a little less.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But it's it is hard, and I get it. It's weird.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
People bursting into song isn't natural, but it's what y
also you're saying is fast and the furious natural, Like
so much of this isn't natural. I remember a friend
of mine was bashing theater and he was like, sucks,
and my friend was like, what do you think Deadwood is?
Deadwood is Shakespeare? Deadwood is Shakespeare in the West. No
one talks like that. I mean, and Deadwood was literally
(16:00):
written in this. It was so dense in this beautiful
Shakespeare away, So that's not Yeah, I guess it looks real.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It looks gritty, but like this was this flowery speech.
This isn't real.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And so I think that it's a It's also like
a testament to action. Movies are much more part of
the culture, and musicals are more of a nerdy niche
thing exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I think that's the isolation of theater. Musical theater from
the rest of popular culture is frustrating. Yeah, and so
that's that's that's the drag.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Don't be alone with joke.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Musical theater is one of the only, uh truly like
American made art forms. A musical theater is you have
the opera, but the art of really weaving story into
song that is Americ that started in America.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, and jazz, there's a few, there's a few of.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
The well, but jazz is also an American art. Yes,
so it's jazz, it's it's but it's so you have.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Jazz musical theater, right, and you have and of course
you have you know, it comes like yeah, porgy and best.
You have jazz and musicals coming together, culminating in Oklahoma,
which I think was the first technical musical that put
story into song. But anyway, it's to support musical theaters,
to be patriotic.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
That's I'm very patriotic. What's the best musical period?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I don't know. I mean, you know, of course I
have my favorites.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I mean, I think best is an best is a
really interesting.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Look.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
The first time I saw Hamilton, I burst into tears.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was I was also very sleep deprived. I was
in New York.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I just won the Golden Globe, but I was in
New York and I bought a ticket to see Hamilton
and the people around me treating a music about a
musical about history like it was Star Wars. I started sobbing.
I was like, oh my god, we've arrived. I'm not
just a doork anymore. I think Hamilton's a masterpiece. Look
you get into the Sondheims. For me, Assassins is just
(18:20):
like amazing. And I think what that show does with
pastiche and commentary is so important.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Chicago's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm a very as you can say, I'm a very
kind of like satire person, but like, look, Fiddler on
the Roof isn't is in your flawless musical chorus line
is in your flawless musical, I don't know there are
so there are just so many.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
For me, it's it's honestly oddly enough. How to succeed
in business without really trying is my favorite perfect musical
of all time. Have a theater like Singing the Rain
if movie musical versus musical stage.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Fantastic, And that's also a great musical. The songs are
so good, the story is so good. It makes sense
why it's a musical. I mean, Guys and Dolls is
super up there. There's a reason it's done all the time.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Adelaide fantastic. You know, well, you got famous at the
very start for making music videos, and so was it
always music? Like was music from the very beginning. It's
like I got to do, you know, fuck Ray Bradberry. Whatever,
I'm going to do my music. That's how I'm going
(19:30):
to get in. That's my thing.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I was always a musical theater performer.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I majored.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I went to college for musical theater, and then I
really quickly fell in love with sketch comedy. I got
into a sketch comedy group, and the thing that I
was fascinated by was how disparate My sense of humor
change the second I started to really be immersed in
comedians and being on a sketch group. Suddenly a lot
of the stuff I thought was funny in musical theater,
I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Oh, that's not a good joke. That's kind of especially.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Because a lot of musicals are from the fifties and sixties,
and you know, comedy from men is a little dated.
And I at the time noticed there was there were
virtually no things overlapping modern comedy with musical theater. It
was like Gutenberg, which was an off Broadway show that
had closed just before I got to New York Avenue Q,
(20:20):
You're in town.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And I noticed because when I was looking for audition songs,
I was like, none of these songs are funny. Like
every audition song that's like, oh you're oh you want
a good female audition song.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Everything was just like my shoes untied, My shoes untied?
Who will tie my shoes for me? Like it was like,
it's barely funny. It's just like she's so quirky because
her shoes are undet So I got the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Character, Oh, great character because her shoes are there was
a very act, but there was a very low comedy
bar for musical theater that I was like, that doesn't
need to be there, because musical theater is actually really
wonderful form of storytelling and when done right joke delivery,
I mean south Park, Bigger, longer, and uncut. Stephen Sondheim
said it was one of the best musicals I think
(21:09):
of the century.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
There's a reason, he said that. It's because it's a fantastically.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well done, well told, well written, targeted musical. So I
started doing stuff. I put up a solo musical sketch
show at UCB, and then everyone around me, including my
boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband I've been
my husband for very long time, was making was starting
to film their sketches and putting them on YouTube, and
(21:35):
I was like, oh, I should do that. And I
had had an idea for a song called fuck Me
Ray Bradberry that I'd just been kind of noodling on
for a while, and I was like, is this a sketch?
What inspired it? Was just doing like a sexy pop
song about what actually attracts me, which is like guys
who are smart, but also the writing of Ray Brett
(21:56):
and then I was like, oh, this could be a
music this could be a music video. I could make
this my calling.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Card and you get feedback from Ray Bradbury.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah yeah, And I met him. Okay, it was awesome.
It was so great. Now he loved it.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I met him once. I never did a song about
sucking him though. Well that's the difference exactly. I know.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
No, when I showed up to meet him, I was
I dressed very concerned because I wanted to be you know,
at the time, I was like, okay, well because it
was a parody of Baby one more time, and I
was like, I want him to take me seriously. So
I wore a very high necked shirt and we just
talked about his writing the whole time. I was like, no,
I want to be taken right seriously because in a
lot of those music videos I was also parodying sex.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
But of course.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Knowing that when you show your tits that'll go viral
on the internet, and like I.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Worked for me. I've tried to show my tits plenty,
and it just doesn't I got a lot of letters
saying stuff, yeah, that's me, that's me. It's fine. No,
I mean the videos The early videos are very funny,
and so congratulations to you and your husband for making them.
I guess he did he well.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
He always had like look he was. I was always
with him, so he always had like an opinion. He
was making separate videos. This is a whole other story.
He started selling stuff. He started selling pilots when he
was like twenty two twenty three. He was on the
sketch group called Chubby Skinny Kids. It's him his still
his writing partner, Doug Man, and then Adam Pally, who's
like an amazing comedian actor show. So they have a
(23:17):
three person sketch group and they were writing these scripts
and they decided to just like, we have a nice camera,
let's just start making sizzle reels of these scripts. And
they started selling like a ton of these scripts from
actually just filming what they wrote. So I was like, oh,
I remember my husband saying people don't want to read,
just give him something to watch. And he there was
(23:38):
a run where he would sell you something to NBC
and CBS when networks had pilot season. He was selling
a ton of these pilots. So that definitely inspired me.
But later he directed some of my music videos and
then a couple episodes of Crazy X, and he co
wrote the new Naked Gun that's coming out.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Oh fantastic, yea, I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's really funny. I've seated early.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's I mean, I'm biased, but I think it's fucking amazing.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So I'm picturing in the uh in the nineties that
Manhattan Beach has this renaissance of really smart art musical
kids going on. Like, is that what's going on? Iscus
you're you're from I'm basically from La Yeah, I know
the South Bank, I know Manhattan. I don't particularly picture
a lot of Jewish art kids running around in Manhattan Beach.
(24:27):
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't really understand what happened. My grandfather was really
involved with community theater. My grandfather was a director and
an actor for a lot of community theater.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
He did a lot of.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Work with this theater company, the Kentwood Players, which I
believe still exists. And he was also an amateur stand
up comedian and he performed at convalescent homes. His real
passion was he my grandpa wanted to be in entertainment,
but he you know, that's that's a it's it's it's
gibber like I'm going to go into entertainment. So he
(25:02):
was very, very smart. He was very good at math,
and so we had this job in math, but his
real passion was theater. Right, So I was raised on
My mom was very good at music from a young age,
and so she would play piano for my grandpa parties
while he'd sang. And then once they realized that I
was a little showman, my grandpa started teaching me songs,
(25:23):
drilling me on songs, and my mom would play piano
and I would sing, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
What's the earliest song you remember performing for mom and grandpa?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I mean school days, school days, school days, dear old
Golden Rule days. Because you're getting taught music by someone
born in nineteen twenty one, all I do the whole
day through is dream of You, fantastic Okay, And then
California Here I Come, all right? That was probably the one.
And then my first performance they wrote it up in
(25:52):
the local paper. I was about five or six and
my grandpa was performing stand up at this free thank
Giving show at the Kawanas Club.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
It was like.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
A free Thanksgiving dinner where they would have performance, and
I got up and saying this, I'll come out tomorrow fantastic.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
How long was Grandpa's set?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Like, I have a whole I have a I have
a whole set of his on video playing the Manhattan
Beach Hometown Fair. Oh yeah, let me tell you something
about the Manhattan Beach Hometown Fair. They did not want
an old Jewish community. They wanted they wanted rock. They
wanted Scott. I mean, so I have his whole set
at this fair. So so my the family. It was
(26:32):
just kind of this cat's skillsy borsch belt vibe that
I really really connected with. And we weren't really an
outdoorsy family. We were a theatery family.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
It made no sense. It made no sense. It still
makes It made no sense. It was Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah. Are you worried about raising a child in Los Angeles?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
No more than anywhere else. I don't. I think, why?
Why why should I should? I be?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Well, I know, I listen, I raised that. My son
grew up in Los Angeles and I was raised in
Los Angeles. A lot of people worry. They talk about this,
that's a big issue, like, well, it's to show busy,
it's too shallow, you know, some of the same things
that people say when they grow up in Manhattan, that
life is too fast, there's too much exposure to bad things.
(27:22):
But more of it's you know, status seekers, and it's
like this whole world of people that you want to
sort of get your kids away from and not worry
about this sort of status that is our concern.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I'll say that my husband said something about us because
I said to him one time, I was like, why
don't we have more Like we have some friends who cultivate,
like billionaire friends, you know, and they just happened to
go to their villas.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
And I went, why don't we have more friends like that.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I've been doing a lot of TV, you know, we're
well known, and he says to me, we stink of
middle class. So I think that we stink of middle class.
We have a little bit of hubris of like we
don't do that. So I think we're very aware of
like not being gross. We're not sending her to schools
that would I think where people are insufferable, or at
(28:09):
least we're trying that.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
We're trying not to hard to find that school.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It's hard to.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Find that in La But I think it comes from
your fan I think it comes from your family value.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
But there's nothing wrong with cultivating billionaire friends. I got
to say, those are some good vacations. I know, you.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Know, but we stink of middle class.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
It's all right, you can pretend you can dress up
theater style.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I don't have the like, do you have a monocle?
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I damn it, monical, that's my advice, by monical, and
a bag with the dollar exactly, and then you're then
you're fine. Then the mid billionaires like you. How old
is she? No, she's five, fantastic, great age. Okay, so
like a person, she's a person.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It's the best. You just have one.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I just have one.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I think we're one and done. I feel like it's
that's the secret.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah. Well, I mean we tried. My wife and I
tried for too, but we never we never got there.
Science science helped us create the one.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I got it, okay, so and then.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Science failed to create the set. So I blame science
for everything.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
See I'm an only child too, so that's the template.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I know.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, but yeah, she's great. I love she has a
point of view in a personality, and she has great style.
She dresses herself and her outfits are wild, and she
found there were a couple of years that I did
backstage correspondent work at the Tony Awards, and my bit
was that I was always wearing a tiny hat and
I saw and it was like a fat but it's
like really tiny hat. It's like a haircliped tiny hat.
(29:30):
She found those tiny hats and now they're part of
her wardrobe. She'll wear one of the tiny hats at
least once a week.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Sometimes we call her baby Sherman Palladino. Yeah, she'll wear
one of those top hats.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Sure, that's that's a delight. I remember seeing you at
the at the Tony Awards backstage and you were like
a fangirl.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah that's all I was. I was just finger like,
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It's good, Like yeah, it was fantastic. It was a
lot of fun. Seemed like a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I try to just have fun. I remember when crazy
ex girlfriend, when everything happened, Mark Petowitz out of the
CW wonderful Brooklyn jew I mean, just the best. I
remember he called he.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Went enjoy it. He just kept saying enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And I get what he was talking where he's like,
this doesn't happen every day. Just enjoy every second. And
I think about the last year Crazy X ended. We
played Radio City Music Hall, we went to London, we
played the London Palladium. There were some of the most
special moments of my life. I had these amazing I
(30:30):
went to Paris, I had this amazing vacation, and then
COVID happened, and it was like I treated that last
year of Crazy X. It's almost as if I knew
the world was about to shut down and everything was
about to change, because I got pregnant also summer of
twenty nineteen, so I kind of knew my life was
gonna change. But all you can do is just enjoy it.
(30:54):
I think about him saying enjoy it in my ear
all the time.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It's interesting you should say that, because I've been trying
to find joy in these tough times, and it's really hard,
because if you look at the news, it's hard. If
you look at chow business, it's hard. If you look
at the environment, it's hard. If you look at like
you know, the world, any which direction you look, there's
a little bit of difficulty. And yet there's a lot
(31:17):
of funny stuff and a lot of you know, we
can do our best to enjoy life, but it's very
it gets harder.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh, it's very it's very hard.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And part of the question of what can I contribute,
what art can I contribute?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Know?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
What do I want to see? Is how can I
really help the world?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
How what what can I actually do that's going to
make a positive difference around me? Uh and not feel
like I'm pissing in the wind and that Those are
also questions I've been asking.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Those are big questions. Do you really think that that
that art, your art or anybody's art is helping specifically
really help? I know it's helping.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Oh, I guess I'm also just talking about things in general,
like helping my community, not even through art. Just what
are the ways I can help I can be nice
to people.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I would be stifled if I said I have to
write something I think will help the world. Oh no,
I would I would first shoot my lage.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No that I can't know that I don't that.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I still I still have to think of what do
I want to see that people aren't making. Because as
far as what can I do that will help the world,
it's self selecting there's so much to watch now the
people who a lot of people are going to have
my point of view, are going to watch the things
that I make right, And so I think this idea
of like I'm going to change the world with my art,
(32:32):
but also know your audience. Look, I'm really proud that
Crazy Ex Girlfriend. We did a lot with mental health
on that show.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
We really really.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Explored it, and I don't think anyone watching it was
closed off to mental health, but I but I think
that there was a lot that people didn't know. And
I've had people, in a wonderful way tell me that
like watching the show, it inspired them to go to therapy,
it inspired them to go on medication and get diannosed.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's awesome, And we were doing that as part of
telling the story of this character. If you know, setting
out to make a difference, you can never control how people.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Are going to interpret.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Don't be alone with.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Your show Death, Let me do my special. Fantastic and
a lot of fun. Also very sad because it's about
hits about death and tough. Did you was that a cathartic?
Did you get through emotional things by doing that?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
The process of creating the show was the Catharsis. I
think like the process of getting up and doing it. Like,
by the time it was off Broadway, I had told
the story so much. It was it was actually much
more than about honing the show, but the first couple
of years of developing it and just getting up on
stage and telling the story, but also prepping before the
(34:07):
show and saying, what do I actually want to say
with this show?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It was it helped.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
The show helped me figure out a lot of what
I thought about death and felt about it.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And how.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Giving birth during the pandemic and Adam dying when that happened,
how that really changed myself. And that's something that I
still really get out of writing, is writing does help
me codify where I'm at with things in my life,
because you have to. You have to be like, well,
what's the theme of this is? What's the question? What
am I trying to say? My husband and I are
(34:41):
working right now. We have this pilot with ABC called
Do You Want Kids, which is about one world where
a couple has kids in the other world where they don't,
And we were really in wonderful ways having to codify, Okay,
what is our point of view of having a kid.
What's our point of view? And what are we trying
to say about monogamy? What do we think about monogamy?
And it's that's what's wonderful about writing.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah that is My wife has not opened the question
of what do I think about monogamy? It's not not yet.
Maybe I'll bring it up at dinner tonight. We'll see
what happens.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And when I say monogamy, I guess I mean less
open marriage and more like you are with one person
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
And how and how do you what is that staying power?
And how do you make that new and exciting and write.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Or do you need to In other words, uh, I
don't know that. I don't know that one needs to
to make it new and exciting. What it does when
you stick with somebody for a while is you wind
up working out a lot of the stuff. Yeah, the issues,
and then that's the that's the secret sauce of it
is like if you break up, if you leave and
(35:48):
find somebody else, you got to work out the same issues.
It's still there. It's like do you put it off
or do you keep going? Whereas the particular person you
chose this time so horrible. A lot of work your
issues out with that person.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Yeah, So we're My wife and I are still in our.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
First how long How long have you been together?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
We have been married for twenty eight years, and we
were together a few years before that, so you know, thirty.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
There was just a big article in The Atlantic about
how comedians actually have surprisingly long lasting marriages and why
that is.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Well, why is it?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I didn't read the article.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I'd love to know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I got to read it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I think it's because you laugh at yourself and you
don't have to everything is you can have a moment,
you can have a moment where you're angry, and then
you can you can laugh at the ridiculous, and you
can also be and I think you can. I think
comedians are really self aware, and so even when I'm
having a disagreement with my husband, I also know, well,
I'm feeling really emotional right now, but at the end
(36:49):
of the day, like we're both coming from a good place,
Like there's a there's a perspective I think on people's motivation.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
I got to read the article, all right, when that
was time for question time, You've answered my question about musicals,
which is good luck. Good luck buddy. Yeah, that's really
the answer. Good luck. I'm writing a musical with my
son right now.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That's so sweet.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
He's a musician, singer, songwriter, musician. He actually just did
a funny passover video. So it's a Jewish themed video.
You did a Jewish theme video.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I think I've done numerous music video You've never done
a passover one.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
What's it called.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Flex its Let my people flow? And it's a inappropriate
passover wrapp, dirty filthy passover rapp.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I can't wait to listen to it, all right.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
So here this is question time is question. This is
from PJ who wrote what are her Memories of her
London Shows? What he kind of said it was just.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Talking about it.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
My London shows were so special. It was at the
Palladium where Judy Garland sat on the edge of the
stage and so I did that in the shows. Remember
when Adam sang the song What'll It Be? Everyone got
out their phones and it was, you know, twenty five
hundred people all doing that with their phones. I loved
those London those those Londons. Radio City was special. There
was something really really special about those London shows.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And also Adam died and so there.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I will always have a really special place in my
heart for those shows because we did these unbelievable gigs
in London and then you know, in geological time, it
was a second later he passed away.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean, how heartbreak. I was always a fan
of Fountains of Wayne, and I didn't know the depths
of his talent. It's unbelievable until he started doing other
things like that thing you do but in your show
is like, I was so impressed with all of it,
and what a tragedy.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I think he was maybe less than halfway through his career.
Actually he was fifty two, and I think he was
going to live to be one hundred and six and
still writing song.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Yeah, it's clear to me. I don't know a thing
about your relationship, but it's clear to me that you
guys had a connection like you do what they lean
where it's sort of like maybe second nature. Maybe you guys.
I don't know how much you guys are communicating, but
you seem like you're on the same wavelength on a
lot of the stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Absolutely, I mean me and him and then and Jack too.
It was always about what's going to be the best.
I think that's and we all kind of had that
north star of what's.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
The point of this song? When what's going to be
the best for this.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Not just what's going to be funny?
Speaker 1 (39:33):
It was funn what's going to be best for the song.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
But also what's going to be best for the song
and what's going to be what's the point it's making
in the show? Yes, and that's that's everything. Grumpy Cat writes, Well,
I loved her show and wished it went on longer.
I can't think of a question, but she's so funny
and talented. I loved the unspeakable things she poked fun at.
Oh there you go there, grumpy Cat Paco writes, Oh
(39:57):
my god, I love like Rachel Bloom. Which one of
the dancing singing drug commercials is their favorite?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
I know which one?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
God, I'm not up on them. What's your favorite?
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Guardians? The Jardians dancers. They're dancing, They're sort of overweight,
but they're still dancing. Yeah, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Okay, I gotta get I got I should have an
answer for that. Actually my research.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Feel free to still drive James, He writes, would you
say you are a comedian, a dancer, a singer, a writer,
or none of the above or all of the above.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Dancer is a stretch. I mean, I can dance, but
that's I can dance, but I'm not a dancer.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
I would say I lead with like comedian because it
encompasses a bunch of things. But you could say all
that except for dancer.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
That's a lot. That's a stretch.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Dance, I can I can tap.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
But your identity to you is comedian.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I guess, so, yeah, I think comedian.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Comedian is the closest to I don't know, comedian writer, actor,
because I do picture comedian being like a stand up
a specific to stand up comedy, which I do, so
I would say.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Comedian, writer, actors. Then you ought to add singer. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
All right, Well, it's nice to be all those many heights.
It's not a problem to be all those things, all right.
So then here's this is a listener mail.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Now it's time for listener man.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
All right, Rachel Bloom, this is a question that's not
meant for you, but that was brought to me. Uh
And said dear Jay and guest and so since you're
the guest today, dear Jay and guest, how can you
effectively experience grief without being totally incapacitated by it?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
I guess from what I know about grief, both personally
and also on a finamental level, is sometimes you have
to be incapacitated by it, right, It's just how long
is that? In have to how long? How long is
that incapacitation?
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Right? And the process of grieving is many things. First
it's being wiped out by it. Then it's being putting it,
finding a way to put it in its spot and
those memories in the spot. And sometimes it's writing a
one woman show. And sometimes it's something helps you get
through it. You never put the grief totally away, but
you have put it in its place.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, I think it's kind of bespoke for everyone. It's
what it's kind of what helps you feel better, Like
you have to grieve, you have to be incapacitated. And
then if you're like, Okay, I need to move on
with my life, what's going to help you do that?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
And that's different.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
This person is saying if she can't is holly, she
can't move on with her life, She's having trouble moving
on with her life. And my suggestion is work at
not living in that dark place all the time. That's
just like grief depression. There's some things that you can
be overwhelmed by, and you can get your life's work
(43:01):
to be in grief and make it your life's work
to be in depression. It does take effort to realize
there's better ways to spend your time, and you can
find a way to place that grief in a moment
of your day or several moments of your day and
find slowly a way to do other things with your day. Yeah,
(43:22):
to get past it.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
I don't know, Yeah, I mean I think my suggestion
also was a good good therapist to help you figure
out when when is this?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Like, Yeah, that's where you and I disagree. Do not
go to professional therapy for deep depression or grief. Comedy writers.
Comedy writers are really who you want to go to.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, exactly, it's.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Fantastic, Yes, of course therapy. And now it's time for
the moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
A moment of joy?
Speaker 4 (43:52):
What gives you joy? What can you either can you
go to physically or in your mind, or can you
do that makes you happy? And I exclude your family
and your child and your work.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
This is a very easy answer for me. The scene
in Austin Powers where he's fighting an assassin over a
toilet and he's saying, who does number two work for?
Who does number two work for? And Tom Arnold is
in the stall next to him. That scene, I'm just
thinking about it. Okay, that's that's the scene. Who does
number two work for?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Well? How did you feel about the drinking of the
beaker of poop?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I don't love that scene.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
But also Austin Powers too was my favorite movie for
a number of years, So I don't love the poop
beaker of poop scene, but look, fat bastard, what a character.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
When I was pregnant, I would regularly be like, oh
my baby.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Yeah, Mike Myers is a genius. I had the bad advice.
I think I told him you got to cut that
scene out where you drink the poop. It's too it's
not funny.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Oh like you were you saw an early cut.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Yeah, I picked. I worked on that and it's like
and uh and pitched jokes a few jokes and stuff
like that, and he showed it's like, that's the it's
not gonna work. People are just gonna be gross, pretty gross,
and he said nutty. It was one of the biggest
laughs no screening. Oh yeah, it's I couldn't have been
more wrong. Like my my taste is kind of you
(45:20):
try to give your best advice and you tell people
and you think, I know, I don't know everything, but
I know that, and then you find out, no, I
don't even know that. I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I realized, Wow, I was just rewatching it. We're the
making Rob low cry with the bouncing globe. Is so
is actually, like, I think, a really underrated comedic moment
from that movie.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Interesting that you were like beaker of poop.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yeah it was. I did the same thing with the
Do you ever see The Nutty Professor with Eddie Murphy.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yes, that's been a while. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
There's a big fart scene in that one. And I
was like, I told Tom Shady act the director, don't
do it.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
This is a podcast of all of the things you
took people not to do it.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
They did it, and they did it anyway, and we're
two huge, huge success.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Yes, So I guess.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I could call it like my instincts are wrong.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Reverse engineer your success with j Coogan so that anybody
can give me something and then do the opposite of
what I say at all times.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
What did you see when you watched Austin Powers?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Was it just two? Or do you also advise on one?
Speaker 4 (46:20):
One, two and three?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (46:22):
One, two and three. I was in the Mike Myers
camp for brief moments.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So did you know that who does number two work for?
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Would be?
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I thought it was gonna be really funny.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Oh yeah, that was so good.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Funny the guys. The guy is super super super super
funny and enormously talented.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oh my god, the scene of Mini Me we were
I was trying to show my five year olds some
of Boston Powers too, and then I realized none of
it's appropriate for five year olds.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Of course it's not.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
But like the scene of many Me catting into his
space suit on the spaceship like climbing, and it's so good.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
The filming was very hard because that actor was not
well most of the time. Oh no, yes, bones are
fact like this problem super small.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
But oh and that scene is so active. That's such
an action scene.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It was.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
But we do what we have to do. For comedy. Yeah,
of course he did well. Rachel, this is so nice
of you to be here. I uh is fantastic. I'm
a huge fan. I can't wait for this uh parent
show that's gonna go. I mean, it's no, it's going
to be made. It's going to be made. It's going
to be on the schedule very very soon.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Okay, Okay, I'm telling you that's just all right.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Uh, although I would advise against it, does that help?
Maybe that does? Does think that it's not going to
be made? ABC don't make it? So maybe say that.
I don't know. Anyway, thank you for being here. You're
wonderful and thank you for being here. If you have
any comments or questions, right to me at dB A
w j K at gmail dot com. And uh, don't
you don't be alone. You sit with somebody, talk with them,
(47:59):
get to know them. It's going to make you happy.
I promise see you next time.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Don't be alone with change Cogain
Speaker 2 (48:10):
M
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