UnCabaret Founder, Beth Lapides, Says Creativity Belongs To Everyone But Jay

UnCabaret founder and host, Beth Lapides, talks about creating the show to have a place to perform then how it shifted to a place where she nurtured Taylor Negron, Judy Toll, Patton Oswalt, Margaret Cho, Bob Odenkirk, Janeane Garofalo, and everyone else to be the best performer they could. She talks about how to be creative and how to stop getting in your own way, how life is change and change is good.  She finds joy in pulling weeds and eating just the right amount of pizza. 

Bio:  BETH LAPIDES works at the intersection of comedy, creativity and consciousness. She is the creator, host and producer of the legendary, genre shifting, UnCabaret - widely considered to be the original “alt-comedy” show. The LA Times called her the ‘godmother of alternative comedy.” She’s produced UnCab for Comedy Central, Amazon Studios, audible etc. And created its spin offs Say The Word and The Other Network. UnCabaret continues to help launch and relaunch some of your favorite iconic comedic voices. Beth is the author of Recorded Books’ original audio book “So You Need To Decide,” which was on Vulture’s Top 10 Comedy Books of 2022 and which Variety called “a potentially life-changing treasure.” Her first published book, “Did I Wake You? Haiku For Modern Living,” opened the door to a wave of comedy haiku. Her very first books were handmade artist books and were shown, among other places at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Her wide ranging muti-disciplinary career has included writing for O Magazine, correspondent-ing on NPR’s All Things Considered, touring her solo shows – currently It’s A Lot – hosting a daily radio show for Comedy World, shepherding an extremely short lived talk show for MTV, developing a pilot with an Emmy award winning producer, hosting a podcast called Life and Beth, and running a campaign to make First Lady an elected position. An occasional actress, she was the first guest star on Will and Grace and the performance artist on Sex and The City – and has appeared in many indie films most often as an offbeat authority figure. Beth had a parallel career as a teacher and muse, known for her ability to help creators find their authentic voice – understand their own process, transform, complete and produce their work. She’s gone from teaching comedians to coaching a vast array of creatives - currently in a framework called The Infinite Creator.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawhut Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Beffalopidas and I'm talking creativity and on cabaret
here with Jay on Don't Be Alone with j Cogan.
It's crazy how J Cogan is on Don't Be Alone
with j Cogan.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Don't Be Alone with JJ Cogan.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hi, guys, it is me Jake Cogan, and thanks for
tuning into Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. I am
very grateful that you're here, and grateful for the comments
and suggestions and the viewer mail that people write into
at dvawjk at gmail dot com. It's great to hear
from you. It's great to have a conversation. You can

(00:47):
also find our substack at j Cogan at substack. I
guess that's what it is. Thank you for liking the
show and subscribing the show and sharing the show all
that's the most important stuff to me. I really appreciate it.
We have a great show for you today. An old
friend of mine, not old, she's not old. That's rude.

(01:07):
Don't say it like that. She's a person I've known
for a while. Her name is Beth Lapitus, and she
is the curator and a creator of a nightclub called
Uncabaret that's been a very popular and successful nightclub in
Los Angeles for decades, and it started people Dana Gould

(01:29):
and Bob Odenkirk and Jeanie Graffalo and Kathy Griffin. And
the kind of comedy where people talk from the heart
and say authentic things. That's what the show is and
has been for many, many years. She started many great
comedians Alex Edelman who continually avoids being on the show,
Alex Edelman, why are you not on the show? We'll

(01:50):
figure it out. A lot of wonderful comedians who do
on Caabaret, and it's kind of a scene and it
developed the kind of comedy that people weren't doing where
they were just telling punchlines and jokes more talking about
their lives, talking about their experiences. And that all came
from something that Beth created. And then more recently she's
become sort of a creativity coach, helping people find their

(02:12):
voice and struggle through the fears and problems of becoming
a writer or a creator or an artist. And so
she's become very good at that. And we're going to
talk to her about her journey as an entrepreneur of
this nightclub, and her becoming a guru for other creatives

(02:32):
and what the important things are in your art and
what you can leave behind. And I found it very
interesting and fascinating conversation. I hope you do too. And
we'll be right back with Beth Lapidis.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Don't be alone with.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
So Beth for being here.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
We're already here.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
We're here. I assume we're recording. Yeah, see, we're recording.
It was just.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Smooth transition from life to other life.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
They're always recording. It's like life is always being recorded
everywhere we go.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Anyway, sometimes I think that the whole point of digital
everything and all the recording that we do is that
whatever God there is or creative force can only see
through digital. So now with digital cameras, they're getting all
these extra images.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Okay, that's upsetting to me, that God is digital. That's
really upsetting to me.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, maybe there's some digital interface. I feel we don't
really know it. I mean, we don't know. I don't know,
you know.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I was thinking about this that all the pictures I take,
because I take a lot of pictures and they go
into my phone right and then nowhere else, Like I'm recording,
it's taking it's either me remembering the moment, like you
know how sometimes you repeat a word to remember it. Yeah,
to take a photograph of it sort of maybe instills
it more, or it removes you, removes me from the

(03:59):
world world.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
It's really it can go either way. Like sometimes it
does make you focus. I have used taking pictures to
calm me in a moment that I'm upset, to make
me Really, it depends, like if you're really looking for
an image, Like if you're upset and you're in a
spot and you're like, I really am going to look
around and be super present and find a beautiful image

(04:23):
in the spot is there? Puts you in the moment.
But if you're just walking through life going like grabby, grabby, grabby, grabby, grabby, grabby,
that's like taking you out of the moment. You can
do the exact same thing it looks from the outside,
but experience it differently inside.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Beth, thank you for being here again. You have been
a starwarth You've been a figure, a mountain of importance
in Los Angeles comedy and show business for the last
what is it thirty years?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Could be all right, could be longer.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
How long has done cabaret.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
The start it is a little unclear, and I think
of it like a birth of a human because there
was the insection which happened at the Women's Building, which
was in the late eighties, and we ran there for
a while. Then we they lost their funding and I
brought it to Highways, where it really just stated. At
Highways it was just me, Taylor Negron and Judy Toll

(05:21):
and we did that for a summer of late shows
and it really started to become a thing. And then
when Luna Park opened, it really became fully what it is.
That's when I first, Yeah, that's when most people first,
So that was really the that was really the birth
of it. But it did exist before that, so I

(05:42):
never know if you start at Luna Park, I think
Luna Park, I'm always a little uncertain of ninety or
ninety one. So like that.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
It was in the center of the alternative comedy scene
and if and when, you know, the books have been
written about it and continue to be writing about it,
it's always mentioned as part of the place where people
you know that your place in Largo and other places
where people felt free to sort of do what they
felt was a different kind of performing, and I think

(06:11):
it's true. How did you come to sort of create
that environment?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
First, it was because of I needed, I wanted a
different context. I came out of the downtown New York
performance art World, and while I was working there, I
really started I started to get funnier. And I could
see that like it.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Happened, you start to get funnier, or it's just like
you're always funny and just willing to.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Perform perform it. Yeah, I started to perform get funnier
on stage, and I could see there was a limit
to how funny the art world wanted to.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
It wasn't like that. It wasn't so primary a primary
motivator for me at first. And number two, I could
also see that I couldn't get as good as I
wanted to be at it in the number of shows
you could do in the art world. I understood that
in order to get it all you had to do
a lot, really a lot. So and then you know,

(07:17):
it did come. I did have a little shift because
I was walking to a show one night I remember
in New York, and I thought to myself, you know,
life is so crazy. It's like you go along and
you finally get it and then you die. Like that's
what human life is, right, And that's either hilarious because
I'm a comedian, so you're like, of course that's hilarious,

(07:38):
or it's incredibly tragic. And I was like, you get
to pick, like you literally get to decide which kind
of human you are. And I was like, if it's funny,
then shouldn't you be devoting your life to funniness? If
life itself is funny, how are you doing serious work?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
So it was kind of like, but comedy is serious work.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but work that included comedy. But yeah,
comedy is very serious work obviously. So anyway, so I drifted,
but I kept going back and forth between because I
still loved doing the solo show and putting it all together.
And of course, as a you know, first you enter
the clubs, you get what are you five minutes? Seven minutes?

(08:18):
You're lucky if you get ten minutes. And I really
loved the challenge of putting an hour together, so I
would go back and forth from the comedy clubs. When
I came to LA I was very shocked by how
showcasey it was and how much of a product everything
was and I was like, you know, I was like
an art girl, you know. And one night I was

(08:39):
at the Comedy Store doing a set and I was
following Andrew Dice Clay and he was doing his usual
women bashing and I was, you know it, oh yeah, okay,
and the audience was real. He was really killing and
I was hating him. I was hating the audience. I
was hating myself or hating them. I don't do well

(09:00):
with hate. And I just think there's got to be
a better way. That's the thought that I had. There's
got to be a better way. I don't have to
do it this way. I love comedy, and there's got
to be a better way. And I so loved comedy,
like I saw at this point was like so frustrated.
And that's the key to creativity is that frustration and
a desire to get unfrustrated. And so I didn't have

(09:24):
a solution. And then I was doing a solo show
at the Women's Building, which was an arts center downtown
where Jidis Chicago famously did her dinner party, and it
was going over a little too well. They were laughing
a little too hard. And after the show, meet and
greet I said, you know that quite as funny as
you thought it was. Well, that was the last time

(09:46):
you left. They go, oh, we don't go to comedy clubs.
We're women and we're artists and we're lesbians. Is not
you know, eighties different kind of lesbian and if we
go to comedy clubs they just make fun of us.
And I said, I'm gonna make you show. It's gonna
be unhomophobic, unxenophobic, unmissaged, and it will be on cabaret.
It was a download. I hadn't had that thought, but
the audience was there my and that question had been

(10:07):
in my head. There's got to be a better way.
What's the other way? And once that once they said
we need something and I was like, oh wait, this
could be it. So that was how it was born.
It was born of the moment at the Women's Building
that was the UN. I mean, the UN is very
misunderstood because people think it's sort of a negative like
ah like, but really it was a pro It was

(10:30):
kind of pro.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Oh I guess it's It always felt to me as
saying well this is different. Yeah, that's all us, that's all.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah. So when we landed at Luna Park, there was
a lot that already had been developed, and you know,
we opened the He booked us for three nights and
it ran until the club close seven years later, every
single Sunday. And part of it was, you know, we

(10:57):
at first it was like every Sunday and oh people
and I would call friends, they go, I hate stand up,
I'm not coming to your show, and I'd be just like,
it's not like that. And people finally started to come,
and then they brought their friends, and then we realized like,
oh god, it's the people are coming back, like we
need to do new material all the time. And that
was fine for everyone, except I was there every week.

(11:18):
That was hard. That was hard, and I still was
like figuring it out.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's little as in all comedy clubs. Yeah, the host
doesn't have to necessarily be the best or the funniest.
And actually what you do is you are funny, but
you are more than anything. You're welcoming. You warm up
this crowd with hello and greetings and make people feel
seen from the get go. You make people feel seen, welcome,

(11:45):
all the different kinds of people. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
However, I didn't set out to become a host, so
I was in my early days. It was frustrating, okay,
because I now I embrace it and I love it,
and I you know, am like, it's my destiny, it's
what I that's.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
In truly to stop there, because that's interesting. You started
out to become this contstantic comedian and what you've built
is this other thing. So how do you embrace it
and what do you think of it?

Speaker 2 (12:11):
You know, I think always I was interested in something
bigger than me. I was interested in community. I was
you know, I really did build it so that I
could be a stand up there and then it turned
out I couldn't. And it was frustrating. You know, that
was very and I couldn't figure out a solution. You know,
people have somebody else's.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
I'm like, I know this is as it was growing.
It's very successful and it's yours. It's one of those
things where like you can't just throw it away.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah I couldn't, right, So you know, so I learned by.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Successful people who don't know. It's like people lines around
the block for people, especially at Lunar Park. Yeah, like
lines around the block, people waiting to go see these shows.
They were very hot commodity and some of the greatest
people you've ever seen were either people who were established
but wanted to do something different were there, people who
were unestablished were about to be big were all there.

(13:06):
So you got to see very interesting people and.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Who was in the audience could have always made it
into a second show, right, you know, it was like
so exciting, and you know, Jay, it's hard to sometimes
understand how your life unfolded. You know, it's not like
I determined it. It's like there I was. I didn't
really understand Hollywood. I'd come from the art world. I
would be very if it happened to me. You know,

(13:31):
I was a different person. I was more naive.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, I thought I was going to be an actor
and a movie director, and I became neither one of these.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
But it's funny just the way things unfold. So, I mean,
the back might happened because people were coming in with
new stuff all the time.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Then there became the rule. You know, people were like, oh,
the rules of mon Cabaret, and it really just became
it was really about authenticity. I mean it was really
That's what I was interested in.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
The thing was like, if you had a pat act,
you're not going to come to your show to do it. Now,
you're going to come to your show with some ideas
or it's what's been on that person's mind or what
they've been writing down. Tim Bagley has a journal and
he's going.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
To read what It was a conversation. That's the best
I can say it. You know, you don't want to
be in a conversation with someone and you know they
know exactly what they're going to say, right so, and
it became about the now. Besides the unhomophobic on xenophobian,
although those uns, the unhacky part was that it was
the spiritual part of it. It's been a spiritual journey

(14:32):
for me for sure. And what we were talking about
at the very beginning about the taking the pictures and
is it going to take you in the put you
in the moment or take you out of the moment.
Comedy too can put you in the moment or take
you out. If you're coming in with a completely it's
polished and you may as well at this point be
watching it on Netflix, you know, or where whatever streamer
you know. You only go if something might happen that

(14:55):
is new and fresh and discoverable. I didn't go to
another show that was so committed to being in this
moment right now. And one of the ways that happened
is that because I think I always remember Julius Sweeney,
but it might have started with someone else. But I
remember one time she was telling a story about she

(15:16):
was you know something, and the setup to the story
included something about her house burning down when she was thirteen,
And because there was a mic in the booth, and
I just got just naturally hopped on the mic, it
wasn't premeditated, and said, what do you mean your house
burned down when I was thirteen? I always tried to
be the voice of the audience question because I did

(15:41):
come to understand that if the audience has a question,
they can't laugh. There is a thing about wanting an
answer that holds you back from laughing. You're like, but
but wait, but wait, but wait is the enemy of laughter.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, What's one of the interesting things, like you're saying,
when when you go to an cabaret, is that you
do have a microphone and there are moments when you're
chiming in and some people complain, Yeah, it's like, what
the fuck? Why can't you just let the other person?
And other people going, ah, that's a thought I was
having in my head, so like, how.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Do you know?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Where do I don't?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
You know?

Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's funny. I Over the years, it weaves in and out.
I had kind of given it up at Elsid, which
is where we are now, partly because of the geography,
and partly my current opinion is that we're living in
such challenging times. I've tried to make everything as easy
for everyone as possible. I discourage people a little less
from doing things they've done before. I want people to

(16:39):
have a good time and to laugh really a lot,
and so I kind of stop doing it as much.
And also I'm very into, you know, my own material
at this point, and I but I'm doing on cabin
it's fun and okay. And then I started to get
complaints like why aren't you doing any outpack? I miss it.
I miss it. So I try to do it now

(17:00):
a little. I think at the beginning I started doing
it very naturally, and then I felt like, well, it's
my thing. I got to do this, and I would
do it maybe too much, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Obviously, it's not premeditated, so it's just in the moment.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
It's just in the moment if I have a question
and I really just try to Over the years, I
think I've gotten better and better and more and more
sensitive to you know, really trying to help the show.
I'm always really trying to help the show. I'm always
trying to lead somewhere, like as any host does. You're
asking me questions to make the show better.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Who are some of the artists who you feel you
helped bring to.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
The four Well, you know, when I say I helped,
I'm going to say by providing a context in some cases,
and in some cases it was maybe a little more
hands on, but well, Kathy Griffin obviously Hot Cup of Talk,
Hot Cup of Talk, and you know, well patent Patton
Oswald in later years, Alex Settlement. Right, I'm trying to

(18:02):
think bring to the form. I mean, Bob Odenkirk had
had was very successful as a writer, but he hadn't
really come into his own as a performer. He'll tell you,
I mean that's his just.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
We used to perform together at the Broadway, you know,
the improv different places where we would just do improv
shows with improv groups and that kind of stuff. But
it wasn't like as it wasn't kind of standout right
in so.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
You need to decide my audio book he talks about
the decision is really stunning to listen to. For you
comedy nerds, go listen to that. He tells the story
of leaving Saturday Night Live even though he had this
amazing job as a writer, because he wanted to perform
and he knew even if they offered it to him,
he wasn't ready right, and the way he made that decision,

(18:48):
and it was really beautiful. So Bob, to some extent, uh,
you know, Jeanine was off and running, but to some
extent it gave her a platform, you know, to do
that work. Those are some.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
People, you know, there was a scene and some of
these scenes crushed over.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
But Julia, I mean, I have to say Celia Sweeney,
who was you know, post Saturday Night Live, right, but
had never done her own storytelling right. So and from
that came God to tak.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Don't be alone with JG.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
So, now, when did you move into or start helping people.
I guess you've always done it, but when did you
sort of codify the idea that you're going to help
people be their best creative self?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, it was a very natural outbirth, also from UNCAB
because what happened with uncap is many comedians wanted to
do it and there wasn't anywhere else to do it
for a while, and then you know, there were big
a more but they I wanted to try it, and
there was no word to try it. And it became
obvious that we could do something called the uncapped Lab
and let people try. Maybe we would discover people, and

(20:09):
maybe we would just you know, take some of the
steam off, you know whatever. So we started doing that,
and uh, yeah, somewhat resistant because you know the idea
of teaching and do you really want to be a
teacher and can't you just do it?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
And why aren't you on a network teaching? Because you
on a network show? Okay, So so teacher means I'm
at something else.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
The thing, that thing, Okay, yea. Even though I will
say that there are pictures of me as a five
year old with a blackboard teaching something like I it's
born to it.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'm teaching film school and USC I teach people all
the time.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
I don't see that you have to argue with the
with the current me. Okay, the current me doesn't feel.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
That all right, well, let me bring back the old
U and I want to yell at that.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, Well, I did it anyway, which is a lot
of what you know, having a good life is is
doing it anyway when you feel like you might have
a resistance that is not appropriate. Right, So I did
it anyway and it was great, it was fun. And
as we did that, also it became more about storytelling.
And then there were people who wanted to do comedic

(21:14):
storytelling that wasn't exactly stand up. Some people wanted to
write scripts, so that expanded. So we went from the
uncab lab to something we called it when I say
Greg Miller, who was my co producer and partner at
that time, and we called it the Comedian's Way, and
it was a broader agenda. And then Greg and I separated,

(21:38):
and then I started teaching it as the Bethalpeediest Workshop.
That became the Infinite Writer as my interest, and then eventually,
you know, eventually I just realized I wanted to number one,
have a more successful financial base for myself. Number two,
I wanted to help people more. And I realized that
if I worked with people for a if I could

(21:59):
get people to say I'm going to work with you
for a year at either a group level once a
month or at a private level a few times a month,
you know, which are different financial investments. I more change
would happen, right, And you know, a lot of it
is about change for me. It has to be better.
I'd sing the change song, you know, all of it.
So when people come to me, they never come to

(22:21):
me because they want to stay the same, right. I
noticed that at the very beginning. It's not like, Hey, Beth,
how are you. I'd like to just hang out and
just stay exactly the same. And I understood from the beginning,
even at UNCAB Lab, when people wanted to be funnier,
that they were coming to me for change, and that
that was my work. That was really my life's work.

(22:41):
So even though at the beginning we were working on
how can I help you be funnier? I knew that
there was a deeper thing happening. And as I've you know,
matured and become interested in the deepest parts of life
as much as I can, I'm interested in that is
how people can evolve, And especially now when I believe

(23:04):
that the world demands us to be our most evolved selves.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
I want to get into this because I want to
get into it for me. Okay, you're here, uh you
know as always, don't be alone with Jay Cogan. Is
people fixing my problems, some selfish ass And I want
to be a better creative person. I want to be
better like I'm trying to stand up coment podcasting, I
do teaching. I do more things because I'm trying to

(23:31):
try more things and fail it more things and get
better more things. But you've been like figuring out things,
and you gave me this thing when we walked in.
He gave me a bunch of things, including and it's
a lot tote bag yep, and a it's a lot
hat yep, which I will now, oh darn put on

(23:52):
my It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Hat, all right, So there you go, thank you, You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
And it doesn't feel like it's a lot, feels like
a normal hat, like more, no more or less than
it norm will have.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I'll let the merch guy.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Know, all right. And you gave me this coin ye
with the humsa on it.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
One side is yes, one side is no, okay.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
But this the hand hand with the with the eye,
it isn't that Jewish hums.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
This is Jewish. It's many things, all right.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
All right, and you to flip the coin so much,
and it's a way to help you to make a decision,
all right, And that that was the merch for So
you need to decide the book, okay, So you need
to decide, and this is about decisions. Make a brave
make a brave decision, and eight habits of infinitely creative people.
So let's talk about the eight habits. The one is decide, start,

(24:39):
face the fear, change, believe in yourself, consistency, listen and receive,
know yourself. And then it says Bethlipitus dot com. So
that's the ninth part of it is Beth Laetus dot com.
All right, absolutely, okay, so let's decide decide.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Well, first, can we start with just the habits, because
I think people really we live in a world where
people are constantly trying to tell us this should be
your routine, this should be your schedule, this is the
hard and fast way. These are the rules. And I
am I bristle at that. And when I started to
think about habits, I actually did look at the etymology

(25:15):
of it, because I was thinking about habits and habit
is a word that comes from habitat like where you live,
like a nun's habit, you know, which is a very
protective and you know it's a home, Whereas a routine
comes from a word that means a rut in the road.
So I really encourage people that these are habits, not rules.

(25:37):
That's number one. So you start with decide, decide. There's
nothing can happen without a decision.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Okay, but I know a million people who decided they're
going to write a screenplay and then don't.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, and they haven't done the other habits, or they've
made a bad decision. You know, when you're making the decision,
I do a zoom, I do a zoom webinar a
couple times a year called pick your next project? And
how have they decided? Did they? I mean one of
the things is you know, why me? Why now? Is
it the right screenplay for you? Is this the right

(26:07):
time for it? Is it the right time to do
any screenplay? Is it a story that mattered for you?
Did you just do it out of just because everyone
else is doing a lot of people in this town
are like, oh, I should do this because everyone's doing this.
You know, do you have a fire for this story.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
But isn't that a good enough reason to do something?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Like I mean, honestly, it's hard, actually, isn't.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
It's hard enough to be motivated to do anything. So
if you're being motivated to do something because you know
someone down the block has started to doing it, is
like that. I'll take that.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
You'll run up against You'll run up against the blocks
because you don't have your why. If your why is
the guys down the street are doing it, it's only
you're gonna get to a dead end where your why
isn't feeding it because you know the guys down the
block moved and I now why.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
It may be the thing that stirs you to decide
what to and then you like what you're writing about.
But in other words, it's there.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
You can find your why later. You can find your
why after you start. You could start something right and
I love it.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Even decide I'm going to do a podcast. I'm going
to do a thing, and then start doing it and
then figure it out as you go. It's not a
bad way to go, no, because you haven't figured it
out by the way at all.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
You're in process. Listen, I think you can know you
want to work in a medium like you might for
a podcast. Go, I love talking to people. That's a why.
I love your I happen to love your title. Don't
be alone with Jake Cogan. I don't want to be alone.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's my why exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Those are strong whys. And I want to do something
with a team. You're used to working on sick you
know shows where there's a team, I don't want I
don't want to do something alone. There's a team. Another
why could be you like the particular, there are many whys.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
To me. Decide is the easiest fucking thing in the world.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Good.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
The next thing is im brutal. Start decide, yes, Start,
Oh my god god. Start is like hit me over
the head with the brick.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, what's hard for you?

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, because then you're like, then it was real. That's
really like when you every when you're deciding, you have
images of Okay, this is what's how it's gonna be,
and it's gonna be flowing, it's be great, and then
you start making it and go, holy, yeah, this is
not as good as I thought it was going to be.
And it's scary and I'm not Oh, this is going
to be a disaster. They're gonna they're gonna find out

(28:30):
I'm a talentless hack.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, well, you're mature enough to know that that's not
necessarily real, that you need to keep working. People don't
always know that you work. That doesn't matter. Well, I
mean a lot of it is just knowing that doesn't matter,
that those feelings will come, right.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
That's the face to face the fear. This is the fear.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
And then people expect that they are going to start
and it's going to be the Olympic level high dive
bam into the pool, when most of the time it's
you're in the shallow end and you're sitting on the
edge of the pool and your bathing suit sticking to
the concrete and you're kind of inching in and stew cold,
and you run out. That's mostly what starting looks like.
But guess what you end up in the water anyway, right,

(29:12):
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
So okay, So so let's talk about consistency. So doing
it every.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Day every day because you you said, specifically to me
in the email, doubts, and I was thinking, you know,
doubts is one part of a you know, the the uncertainties.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
I wrote specifically how can I keep my creativity even
when I have my doubts or energy wanes? Right, that's
the question I brought up.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So doubts and energy winds are different, but doubts are
part you know, are like indecision or questions I was,
I was.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Thinking doubts are like you're going down the road of
something and then thinking maybe this is a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Right, But that's because you're putting judgment. Judgment in with
questions are always helpful, Like if you're thinking, I wonder
if I have a better idea for a first act?
Are these two the right characters? Did I choose? These
are questions that can be slept on and answered and

(30:12):
talked about. Is it a bad idea? Has to do
with judgment, Like it's a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Unfruitful, unpleasant, not funny, Yeah, not funny. I think I'm
a result in something wonderful, right, but.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Rather than But the way you find that out is
asking specific questions and trying to make it better through
the specific questions and letting yourself love the questions, because
there always will be questions, and not once there is
a question jumping to oh it's a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
The thing that improv taught me is that there are
no bad ideas. Every idea is wonderful. Is every idea
literally is wonderful. There's a way to make it great.
Not everybody finds that way, but every idea could be
a great scene, could be a great moment, could be
a great thing. The inspiration for it is there, so
it could be great.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
That might be true an improv. I'm going to explore
this question with it again, where you're only investing a
part of an evening idea.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
There's no screenplay, not just an impropt. There's a movie
or a novel, but it's not for you necessarily right there,
But that idea could be good in the hands of
the right person, done the right way, that idea could
be okay.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
So you have to figure out is it your idea?
Is it good for you? So that's part of the doubt.
And then I think where doubts really grow is this
consistency thing. If you're a little doubt and you show
back up, show to work, up to work the next day,
then you address the doubt. You're like, oh, okay, I
have a question. Is then maybe not that good? Let
me try to make it better. Oh I made it

(31:38):
a little better. My doubt is a little less. And
the better the more you work on it, you know,
the less room you have for doubt because you're just
in it making it better. But the farther way you get,
the doubt grows and the work. As the work gets less,
the doubt can grow more.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Have you ever run into somebody who says, this is
this is what happened to me, This is my life story,
and I have this thing and it's very interesting. I
just don't know how to put it into a form,
either a play or a book or anything. I just
don't have to put it. I know it's something, I
just don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Sure. There are two different ways people come in. One
is I know what medium I want to work in,
but I don't know what to put into the medium.
I know I want to write a script, but what
is it. Another way people come in is well, people
come in many ways, but two of the ways. One
of the other ways is I have a story, right,
but what medium does it go in? Those are two,

(32:32):
you know, different, and sometimes they don't know which medium
because it's too big, too much of their life, Like
you know, it's that's a lot that's like really too much.
And sometimes they just haven't taken the time to sort
out what would be appropriate and.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Sorting out the story I think is really really important.
Like people tell me this is my life story and
they have a very interesting life, And I said, well,
what does it mean to you? In other words, what's
the point of it? Yes, I know it's an adventure
that happened to you, but I don't want to see
it unless it has a meaning that I, as a
viewer can absorb.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, and some people are miniaturists, you know, there's a
story just to I want to get a cup of coffee,
and it turns into an entire story. And some people
are maximalists. And you know, there's a million different styles.
So part of it is just understanding yourself. This is
the knowing yourself is partly knowing yourself in life, but
also knowing who you are in terms of an artist.

(33:30):
What is your strengths? What are your weaknesses? I mean
every hard to know every single artist the strengths and
weakness is right.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
I don't know what mine are and it's just like
I have to assume that I have some value, but
it changes project to project.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Uh huh, okay, we would you say you have any inkling?

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Not exactly. I mean like, I'll get things done. I
can get I can get you, I can get words
on the page, so fastness, so okay, so there's speed.
There's that.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I like certain kinds of stories that I can work
with somebody who likes the same kind of stories. That's
going to be helpful.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
What would you say? Those kinds of stories are.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Uh, mostly funny stories, but also stories that have a
meet Like I'm saying that, yeah, I can find a
meaning for whether or not there again, doesn't have to
be my life experience. That's one of the big arguments
I have with Brown all the time. Why don't you
write your life? I was like, my life is boring,
my life is dull. I can't. I can't. I don't
have meaning in my life. But if I write about

(34:27):
an alien who's you know, who's who lands in San
Diego in the middle of comic Con, A real alien
in the middle of comic con, that's funny idea.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Are you writing that? No?

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I just thought of it, just like Okay, all these
nerds who think that they're talking to another nerd who
is thinking, but in fact it's it's a being for
another plant trying to learn about the planet Earth. I
can write that because we can talk about what Earth is,
society is. I'm busy with other things, but I'll get
to that. But but but anyway, that's the I can

(34:58):
tell that story. It's nothing that happened to me. But
it's about a world. I understand. It's about a point
of view. I understand.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'm going to give you an answer to Brown next
time she says it, all right, I am writing my
life story. I write it all the time.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I say that answer. I say, I'm in all those things.
I'm in every character. I'm in all the things. She
doesn't believe me. She doesn't like it.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Everyone does it. Everyone's not meant to do memoir.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, it's true, all right, So what change? Why do
I need to change when I write? What am I changing? Well?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
That is right at the center there, because creativity, the
essence of creativity is we think of it as to
make something, which it is, but the word create actually
comes from a word that means to grow. And maybe
you have experienced this that when you make something, the
things you've made that you really love. The best Simpson

(35:52):
episodes did you. You know, when you put yourself into
a character and you see how it works, you do grow.
I mean you continue to grow through your work. I
do believe that for a long career or a long
life as an artist, even if you don't think of
it as a career, that if you do work that
allows you to change, and that means that change means

(36:16):
to grow, means growing pains, means that you're facing the
uncomfortable things, means you're facing the pain, and that means
that you're using your work in a way to evolve.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Okay, so change is what we're experiencing. Then as we're
doing our best.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Work, I think so. And I also think that as
we're doing our best you know, as we change, then
the work changes. And I do think.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
That it.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
You know, the one of the gifts is being willing
to move somewhat calmly, somewhat with some kind of grace
through being uncomfortable with it not being good enough, which
you have to get good at as an artist. In

(37:03):
being willing to have the pain of getting notes and
bad reviews and you know, all of it.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
How do you calm people in the face of that,
Like I that is of course the nightmare of every
the data appointment is I'm making this and people will
love me for it, and then it comes out and
people didn't like this one. How do you ease that pain?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
You know, the long view process. I mean, it's the
only way. I mean, it's just it's it's truly heartbreaking.
So there's all, there's all that. First of all, kindness.
You know a lot of times it just takes some
kindness to help you get through it. And no blame,
you know, not like, of course they don't like it,
it's not good enough. You know that when well, it's

(37:51):
not blame. I mean, you know, there are lessons to
learn sometimes and you know, sometimes it's serendipity. Sometimes you
just a lot of times you got to you got
the wrong reviewer. You the reviewer came on the bad night.
I'll say on Cabaret, we had a special on Comedy Central.
We got really good numbers, and they were just like,

(38:11):
we have this other show we're going to invest in.
It's just we're not interested. And the other show is
South Park, you know, and it's like, yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Sure, good decision, good decision.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
You can't argue with it. So that you know, sometimes
you get fortunate, and sometimes fortune doesn't smile upon you, right,
And so part of what I do is try to
give people the long view, the lessons, and also to
understand that sometimes it feels bad, but it's not. There's
more to do, There's plenty of work to do, there's

(38:42):
plenty of room to grow. And you know, it's like
that all the things, you know, it's you have to
be willing to have that uncomfortable experience and you have
to be willing to take the pain, and then you
do it enough times.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
You know.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Also there are things you can tell people like sometimes
it's not the end of a project. Sometimes somebody has
just gotten bad, you know, hard notes from someone, and
then you can tell them what you know, which is
that every time you get a note is there's something
there is usually something to make better, even though the
note may not contain the thing like they haven't they
don't always.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Know what they mean.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Sometimes there are most of the time the note has
something about in value of in it. Every now and
then it's like fuck that note.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, So you have to try to help people learn
how to see inside a note.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
So that's a thing that you know.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
People don't always well is that part of listen and receive.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
That would be part of listening received. That would be
one thing in it. Another thing would be being attuned
to your own quiet voice as the loudest things. Right,
So listening to yourself where if.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
I listen to myself, I wouldn't do anything like listen
to myself and saying like this is this is gonna
be terrible, don't start this.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
No, I'm saying, listen to yourself. When you say, oh,
an alien comes down to the middle of comic Con
at real a leen and you know, and then there's
something in you that says, you know what, that's the
one to do, That's the one, right do you? Can
you listen to that voice? Can you listen to the
voice that When Brown says you should be writing your life,
your voice says, it's all my life. You know you

(40:17):
are able to navigate your own path. I believe you
are listening to yourself. It sounds like you're listening to yourself.
It sounds like And listening can also mean listening to
the audience. You know, which performers don't are what are
they laughing at? Where is even listen? Learning to listen
to silence and what kind of silence it is. That's
something that.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
You know, here's so much it's hard to listen. I
do every time that I go to these open mics
where it's a bunch of I do it a lot
lot a comedians sitting waiting for their turn for the
open mic. So if you can make those fuckers laugh,
that's then you've got something. Because nobody there wants to
laugh at you at all. No, So, but I can't
listen to them not laughing because that's normally what's going

(40:58):
to happen. Now it's just me practicing in front people.
Well that's about every now and then. If I can
get them to laugh or get them to connect, I
feel good.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
But it is saying. It is that thing where words
travel through It is the embodiment. It is learning to
have words come through you that you had in your mind,
and it's kind of muscle memory. It's a workout.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, don't be alone with.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Tell me this. You probably don't have an answer to this,
and you might not necessarily have an answer, but I'm
going to ask you anyway. Please, if writing something down
on a piece of paper, a future that you want
to that you think you want your future to manifest
and you write it down. There's evidence that says if
you do it, you're something like ten times more likely
to actually do it.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
What about first and hope?

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Right?

Speaker 1 (41:56):
But no, butter, just writing it down? Yeah, writing it down?
Writing it explain to me why I know this? And
yet I've never written ever a moment down. I know
I've been thinking about it for years. I should write
down what I want to have done, and I never
do it.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well two reasons. One, you don't really believe it, even
though you've seen the evidence. Two, you don't really want
it to be. Three there might be a little laziness
for yes. Skepticism I would think would be a piece
of it. Those are some things. And it might feel

(42:34):
like you're not you if you do it, you're not
that kind of person. You're not somebody who does that.
That's change, right, there would be a change.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Why I should do that. I should go home and
write something down.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I would love it if you did that.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
All right, I'm going to do Viewers, I'm going to
do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to
write it down.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
But I do think that sometimes you must have those
if you work with people. Sometimes people have such a
strong desire to It's why people go into therapy. Sometimes
sometimes people so to get better, but sometimes they just
want to know what's their story? Who am I? What happened?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (43:06):
I don't want to know what happened. I do not
know what, believe me. And we're all better off not
knowing what happened. Let's just move forward. Let's just move forward.
Let's not look behind. It didn't work, it didn't work.
Whatever that was didn't work out, and now we're moving forward.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Did I forget to say that? One of the reasons
I do on cabs because I just really love to laugh,
and I get to put all the people on that
I really, I really do love. I get to just
be on a show with people I love. Yes, And
I'm a comedy snob and I have really particular taste,
and it's hard for me to just go do any
old show, and so I just put on the people
I like and I laugh.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Okay, now I did ask you this one question before
we go to the next section. How do you get
people to find their comedy voice or how help them
find their comedy voice?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
You know, part of it is an intuitive radar thing
where I just have a I do have a good
track record, and I can.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
You know what's funny about somebody?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
You Yeah, But I can also watch somebody do their
I can watch somebody and I can say that thing
you need, that thing that you're almost ignoring, right was,
so you more of that. So sometimes it's just pointing
out the things that are people don't see for themselves.

(44:24):
It's very hard. You need an outside eye. It's very
hard to Very few people have become extremely successful without
somebody being, somebody brilliant saying to them that thing.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Right, you know, I think most people actually don't know
what's good about them as performers. Most people don't. You
run into this all the time about somebody left to
their own devices, suddenly says my audience wants to see
this with me. It's like, no, no, that's not the
thing you like at all.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
So there's that. There's one thing is helping people be
brave enough to tell their hard things, which means giving
a safe space where people don't have to worry about
getting lit because they want to tell this.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
But has such a soft life that I have no
hard things to tell, Like I'm I'm trying to come
up with my in my act to tell the hard things.
And it's like, well, you know, when I was an
Encino growing up, you know, we didn't have steak every
night like it.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Loneliness, Yes, loneliness is just has nothing to do with
growing up. Whatever class you grew up in.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
We talked about that everything. I talk about that a lot.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Every single person has, you know, pains. So there's that.
And another thing, why is this is very This is
more of a technical thing. You know. The rhythm of
your voice, yes, is so you everybody the actual rhythm.
And one of my big complaints about the comedy clubs

(45:48):
is that they there's a rhythm of comedy clubs. The
less so now, but there still is a comedy club rhythm.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Rhythm.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Somebody says this a little bit like Jerry Sandfeld, and
then they said, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Like you know, your breath is as much your own.
There's all the science now that your breath is as
distinctive as your thumb print. And I you know, the
way I say is the rhythm of your voice is
the wave your inner truth rides in on. So if
you sound like yourself, you're more likely to say the
things that are deeply personal to yourself.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Interesting. One of the things I try to do when
I do stand up now is to not speak exactly
like myself because I'm too fast. I have to take
time to take time.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
In other words, okay, but now you're talking tempo. Still
you can have your rhythm.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yes, I speak, Yeah, I speak my voice, but I
let space exists. I love that because otherwise I'm just
I'm pushing and rushing and it's not giving the audience
back and forth all the kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Stepping one of the big things I had with Sue Wolf,
who directed the Oncabaret special, taught me then and we're
working together and it's a lot now and she's not
always haunting me. Don't step on laughs. And it's true.
I've told so many students. You know, when you step
on laughts, you're essentially telling the audience doesn't really matter
if you laugh, because so they stop because you stepped

(47:14):
on it, so why should they bother. So not rushing
is a big one I struggle with all the time.
But nevertheless, it's still your rhythm and your rhythms.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
You know.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
One of the things is the way you talk is
not the way you speak. So people tend to part
of it is learning to write for your talking voice
rather than write for and you'll notice it.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I don't understand the distinction between talking and speaking and
what you just said.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Speaking is sort of how you think you should say
it is what I'm meaning, and so you know how
you're saying. The memorizing some of that is if you
start to also work in the other direction, so that
if you start building material from what you said, it's
easier to memorize because it's just.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
What you say.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
You always say it, it's how you say it. It's
so easy to remember. But if you come from a
different place where you're thinking about how you should say it, yes,
it's often hard to remember because it's not actually in
your talking voice. So you start to but nevertheless, you
want to work both directions, but you start to hear
how you talk. And I'm always shocked, even after all

(48:20):
these years. Sometimes I'll just say the thing that's the
most natural thing because it's so natural, and then it
actually really works. And it's these little things that you think,
why am I even saying this, and then they're like
so huge.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, all right, So this is now the listener mail
section of our show.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Oh I love it.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Now it's time for listener man.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
This is from Germoran. Dear Jane, guest, Howdy. The one
thing I'm struggling with lately is being more vulnerable in
my art. I sometimes find it hard to wrestle my
personal feelings about the world to make my work that
comes from the heart. Is this something you struggle with?
If so, how do you get over the fears? Your
show is incredibly cool? Well, thanks JR.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
My show is incredibly cool, Thanks Jurr.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Thanks gir.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
They struggle with vulnerability in their.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Art, yeah, I would say, first of all, join the club,
and you know, trying to articulate what the world is
right now when the world is changing and we're living
in a culture where we experience something called hypernormalization regularly,
where you're getting coffee and doing your errands and loving

(49:31):
your kitten, and then at the same time you think,
you know, the world is on fire and it can
end any minute, and you have to live in both realities,
and there isn't really language for a lot of what
we're experiencing. I once have a great healer, Carolyn mess
speak on stage and she's so articulate, and she just

(49:52):
started stumbling, and she said, how do you talk about
these things that there are no words for? And that
is where we are as artists. And so first of all,
I would say, Number one, be kind to yourself. Listen
to the little voice that Jay and I were talking
about and the whispers that are like the thing that
you might say that is that the thing? And just

(50:14):
you write it down. Number two, be vulnerable in Be
as vulnerable as you can in the safest possible spaces,
and then decide what you want to put out. You know,
you be very vulnerable at your desk. Be as vulnerable
as possible at your desk, and then be the next
level vulnerable with your inner circle and be as you know,

(50:37):
try to have people to talk to. I would say,
it's very hard to do it all in your head
or by yourself at your desk.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
So do you have.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
You know, do you have a coach, do you have
a teacher, do you have a therapist? Do you have
a partner you really trust? Do you have a dog
you can tell? You know? Who do you talk to?
Please don't try to do it alone. As Jay has
in his title.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
People have writers' groups, they have friend groups, they have
people you know everybody needs a scene, a social scene
to help with them with their art. And it's just now,
nobody writes anything alone. When I write something, immediately show
it to somebody else and get their opinion. And people
do that for me, and it's not It doesn't need
to be a lonely business. But I would also say

(51:22):
being more vulnerable in your art. I would say, boy,
if you're writing about something that's important enough to you,
then you'll be vulnerable. When I write the show about
the alien in comic Con, what I'm going to be
writing about is not an alien in comic Con. It's
about me feeling alienated in a world, trying to fit

(51:44):
in and trying to observe and trying to figure out
where I belong and all that kind of stuff. So
I'm being vulnerable, hidden inside this other thing. And so
it's it's it's protective. It's a protective show.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
A lot of ways avail, yes, all.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Right, nots have for a moment of joy.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
A moment of joy.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
This is where you get to tell us what gives
you joy. And it can't be work.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I understand, you can't be family.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
It's just something that you you can tap into that
gives you joy.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
You have two choices. Two things come to mind. One
is meditation, the other is weeding.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
What's weeding like.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
In the garden? Yes, okay, like maybe I'm going to
say expand beyond weeding to garden me. Yeah, but it's
specifically the part where.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
You go and you.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Deadhead and you pull out weeds and you decide that
you're going to let some weeds grow because even though
you didn't plant them, they're kind of pretty, like the
dandelions are so beneficial, but you're thinning out. It's a
very editing process. It's very much like editing where some
unexpected things have happened and you're going to let them live.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
So it sounds like you're it's not necessarily the yanking
out of the weed that is pleasurable too, but it's
the shaping of this garden yea, and what to keep
in and what to not eat.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yes, and while you're doing that, which is sort of
like a very pleasurable and the steaks are so low
because you know, but.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
You can buy gardens.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
There's also just being around plants and flowers and the
energy of absorbing the most anti screen thing that you
can absorb. People said me, do you do plant vegetables?
And I say do I look like I planted vegetables. No,
I planted a lot of flowers. And it's so and
there's a practice of patients like every day you go

(53:48):
and it still hasn't quite bloomed. I love that part
of it, just just watching watching the growth and the
change and the spurts and the just having a little garden.
I can't. I had a really clear feeling like I
need to really do something. We have a front area
that's gated in, and so it could have been a
really nice little space, and it just was kind of overgrown.

(54:09):
And I was like, I really think this is going
to bring me a lot of joy to turn this
into a beautiful area. And it really has.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
This has been great, Beth.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Thank you for being Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I really appreciate you. I really appreciate thank you so much.
The community that you've built that I've sort of been
part of.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
For sure, I consider you part of our community.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
I appreciate that. I'd like to be part of.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
That community, part of this community.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
I definitely I feel like those that's my people, it
is your people. So it's great but it's great that exists.
I'm happy that you've gone back and forth and continued
developing that community and also helping people become more creative
and wonderful. Where can they if they want to get
a hold of your books and things, Where can they

(54:54):
do that?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Great questions? Bethelopedis dot com, b E T H L
A p I des dot com has links. I'm on
substack as the Infinite Creator and I write about creativity there.
I'm on Instagram at Beth Underscore Lapitis that was a
big mistake, and on Cabaret is also on Instagram. You
can get you know shows there and those are the

(55:18):
best places to find me.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Fantastic. Well, I appreciate you and thank you for being here,
and the Cogan family and myself especially loves you and
thank you for being here for the audience. It's so
wonderful that you join us and that you participate. And
I would encourage you to write me at dbawjk at
gmail dot com if you love the show, if you
hate the show, if you have comments and criticisms. We

(55:40):
talked about getting the criticisms. I can handle it. I
can take it all. All the chicks in the stomach.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I'm used to it.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
So tell me what you like, tell me what you
don't like, but definitely, if you do like it, subscribe
to the show. Like the show, check out the substack.
We have a substack that's as special bonus moments, so
you'll like it. But more importantly than any of that
other bullshit is spend some time with somebody. Spend the
time with conversation in person. If you can and connect

(56:08):
with somebody, you will really like it. And that's what
I encourage everybody. And we'll see you next time.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
See you next time.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Don't be alone with Jain