October 21, 2025 • 48 mins
Mike Rowe talks about not being the “dirty jobs” Mike Rowe, planning for the future, being funny in high school, becoming an electrical engineer and giving it up for comedy, performing in NY comedy clubs, Alan Zweibel moving him to LA, roasts, jokes, his book “It’s a Funny Thing”, Rodney Dangerfield giving him hope, comedy cliques, and why he’s moving to Connecticut.
Bio: Michael Rowe is an Emmy Award-winning writer and producer who has worked on many highly regarded comedy and animated shows on television.
While still a teenager, Michael began his comedy career as a stand-up comic at such notable New York City clubs as The Improv, The Comedy Cellar and Caroline's. From there, he landed a job writing jokes for SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE’s Weekend Update, as well as sketches for shows on MTV, A&E and Comedy Central. Hollywood called, bringing Michael out west to work with Martin Short on his syndicated sketch-comedy show. This soon led to opportunities as a sitcom writer/producer on shows starring George Clooney, Adam Sandler, Ted Danson, and with Eddie Murphy on his groundbreaking animated series, THE PJs. Michael’s affinity for the comedic heart and artistic freedom of animation led to a seven-season run as a writer and Co-Executive Producer of the highly acclaimed series, FUTURAMA. From there, Michael joined FAMILY GUY as a writer/producer and soon after, he became the showrunner for Comedy Central’s animated series, BRICKLEBERRY. Along the way Michael was awarded 6 Emmy nominations (with 1 win), 2 Annie Awards (with 2 wins), and a WGA Award for his FUTURAMA episode, Game of Tones. He was also nominated for a Canadian Emmy for his work as Executive Producer and Director on Netflix’s animated series, THE TRAILER PARK BOYS. In recent live-action endeavors, Michael was a Co-Executive Producer on the hit TV series, 2 BROKE GIRLS for CBS. Michael is currently in development with Supercell creating an adult animated series from their megahit game franchises CLASH OF CLANS and CLASH ROYALE. He is also in development on an animated series with the incredible David Cross, and a separate animated series with Bob Odenkirk. He is also a long-standing, frequent contributor to the ongoing Comedy Central Roasts, featuring such celebrities as James Franco, Donald Trump, Justin Bieber and Roseanne, just to name a few.
Bio: Michael Rowe is an Emmy Award-winning writer and producer who has worked on many highly regarded comedy and animated shows on television.
While still a teenager, Michael began his comedy career as a stand-up comic at such notable New York City clubs as The Improv, The Comedy Cellar and Caroline's. From there, he landed a job writing jokes for SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE’s Weekend Update, as well as sketches for shows on MTV, A&E and Comedy Central. Hollywood called, bringing Michael out west to work with Martin Short on his syndicated sketch-comedy show. This soon led to opportunities as a sitcom writer/producer on shows starring George Clooney, Adam Sandler, Ted Danson, and with Eddie Murphy on his groundbreaking animated series, THE PJs. Michael’s affinity for the comedic heart and artistic freedom of animation led to a seven-season run as a writer and Co-Executive Producer of the highly acclaimed series, FUTURAMA. From there, Michael joined FAMILY GUY as a writer/producer and soon after, he became the showrunner for Comedy Central’s animated series, BRICKLEBERRY. Along the way Michael was awarded 6 Emmy nominations (with 1 win), 2 Annie Awards (with 2 wins), and a WGA Award for his FUTURAMA episode, Game of Tones. He was also nominated for a Canadian Emmy for his work as Executive Producer and Director on Netflix’s animated series, THE TRAILER PARK BOYS. In recent live-action endeavors, Michael was a Co-Executive Producer on the hit TV series, 2 BROKE GIRLS for CBS. Michael is currently in development with Supercell creating an adult animated series from their megahit game franchises CLASH OF CLANS and CLASH ROYALE. He is also in development on an animated series with the incredible David Cross, and a separate animated series with Bob Odenkirk. He is also a long-standing, frequent contributor to the ongoing Comedy Central Roasts, featuring such celebrities as James Franco, Donald Trump, Justin Bieber and Roseanne, just to name a few.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawt Media. Hey, I'm Mike Row and you can hear
me on don't be alone with j Cogan, especially if
you don't have pants on.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Don't be alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hello, cognation, Hello, don't be a owners. It's me Ja
Cogan and you are watching don't be alone with Ja Cogan.
I am really thrilled about the positive reaction I get
for the show all the time. I get emails and
comments in person, and people are liking the show and
they're listening. My friends are and people who are not
my friends as yet to be known friends are enjoying it.
(00:41):
And you can be known simply by writing to me
at dbawjk at gmail dot com, and I will get
to know you, and you'll get to know me, and
you can tell me all the things you like about
the show, and all the things you hate about the show,
and all the things you want the show to be.
I would love to have a community of people that
I can refer to and enjoy and I'm getting that,
(01:03):
So be part of that. That'd be fun. One last thing,
I just started a substack. What a substack? It's just
another annoying thing on the internet, But substack is specifically
for this show, and we'll feature things I write about
the show. Every week. We'll have clips that have been
cut out of other shows that were interesting, and we'll
put it on the Substack. So there'll be special material,
(01:26):
special videos, special messages, things that you can only see
on the Substack. So join the Substack. Jay Cogan at Substack.
Our guest today is Mike row very very funny comedy
writer who's written some amazing shows like Futurama and The
PJS and dozens of other shows, he said, maybe fifty
(01:46):
other shows. And what we're going to be talking about
is something that's very real in show business right now,
because show business is in flux and is very strange,
and a lot of people are struggling to get through,
and a lot of people decided to pack it up
and go. Mike Rowe has decided to pack it up
and go. He's going to back home to Connecticut with
(02:09):
his wife and they're going to buy a house and
live there, and he'll still work from Connecticut and using
the Internet and writing his screenplays and stuff like that,
but he's leaving Hollywood. That's a big decision for any
of us, but a lot of people are thinking about it,
and so I wanted to find out what went into
that decision. When do you think it's time to go?
(02:30):
When do you think it is time to give up
on this city or at least start a new life
somewhere else. Mike will tell us that, and he will
tell us so much more also about the brave, smart,
interesting decisions he's made about his life all the way through,
about when to jump into show business when you're not
from show business at all, when to jump in from
(02:52):
performing to writing, and how you keep your career going,
and how you decide it's time to sort of move
away and do it for somewhere else. These are all
amazing decisions, and he's a smart guy and he's done
it well. So we'll hear more about that right after.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This don't be alone with.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm here with the delightful Micro, and to be clear,
not the Dirty Jobs Micro, which I've actually been asked
to come on a podcast. And it wasn't until we
were on the air that this woman realized it was
the wrong micro see you and say he looked different,
it was it was a zoom and turned it on
(03:35):
and she was befuddled and right confused.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
He's kind of maga, right, that other micro he's crazy
mega maga, dirty pro dirty jobs and an opera singer
something like that.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
He has a sign and car salesman.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So that is not me. So I actually stayed on
the podcast and for an hour just talked about myself.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Fantastic, Well you're here to do that, and I couldn't
get the other micro.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I tried, well, you know, if you a car from him, perhaps.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, no, I did not try. I'm a big fan
of yours and for years, one of the things that
you're known for is being super funny. Like if I
needed jokes, right, there are lots of comedy writers out
there who I would not turn.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To for jokes. Right. The good and bad for me
is I sort of wish my reputation on the show
would be as great drafts. That would be the preference, right,
But you have what you have. Like I worked on
the Comedy Central roadst approakely. I don't know a dozen
of them, and the job was, like you're hired to
(04:36):
say for three weeks, right, you just write jokes all day.
You're rolling at nine and then you're there two seven,
so you're writing I don't know one hundred jokes a day.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Right, you're reading about the person that you're made, writing
jokes about trying to find pieces of their lives to
make fun of, and then writing shit ton of.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Jokes, right, and then by the end of it, you're
submitting I don't know a thousand jokes at least, and
if you're lucky, you get two to eight jokes on
the roast itself. Right.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I mean that's the nature of those shows, is like
you have to write a million jokes to get a
few that are good.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Right, can I bring I'll brag about one joke for
roast Snoop Dogg Donald Trump roast? I had Snoop say
Trump is thinking of running for president? Why not? It's
not the first time he kicked a black family out
of their home. Ah. That's a great joke, and it
became part of the democratic like meme world with any
(05:32):
of my doing. Right, And then I'm watching Conan one
night and Snoops on, and then Conan starts asking him
about that joke. Just you know, for a joke to
have this weird afterlife. Yeah, that's special. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Some of the roast jokes from the Comedy Central roast
and even from this latest Tom Brady, I'll remember my
hunt entire life. I just really funny, funny.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's such a fun visceral thing because for me, especially
because I don't have to tell the joke, and I
get to kind of watch from the back of the
room and feel like I'm telling the joke from for
whoever saying it right, and it's you get to really
hit somebody in the gut really hard and you.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Know, well, I mean you did stand up comedy, yes,
so you did used to tell the jokes.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, I did stand up comedy for I started when
I was in high school, did the high school Talent Show.
That was my first time in it was it was
really weird because I have this thing where I was
like the class clown, but the teachers loved me as
the class clown and wouldn't embrace you.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So it was like in you know, Simith's class, you know,
the teacher would say, you know what do you think
of the Louisiana purchase a nice speed he's in a
dance to you know what, like whatever, kid joke And
then but the room I had a room and they
would just laugh it would be fantastic. I would leave
their sweating like I just didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
But but obviously you didn't interrupt the flow of teaching
too much, otherwise they would have hated you.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, you picked your spots.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah that's good. So you had you were a class
town with taste, with timing and taste.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yes, that's good. From there, there was another kid in
school who was funny too, and I brought him in
as a comedy partner. His name is Bill Hollywood. And
this is in Connecticut, small factory town, Waterbury, and there
was a comedy competition at the ground Round and so
we were Hollywood in Row and the we did a
(07:29):
bit if the world was attacked, and on TV there
was the you know, the the announcement the world was attacked.
It would still be interrupted with commercials, right, and I
was kind of the It was kind of like Skyles
and Henderson. I would do all these weird sounds, so
it'd be like the world was being attacked, and I'd
(07:51):
be you know, but first this word from Nesley's and
then I would do this commercial, you know, and the
prize was like fifty bucks and you get the little
plastic baseball helmet fudge ice cream. Sure, so we lost
to the Tom Jones impersonator, but.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It's not unusual.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Ah nice, So I don't get that's where were you
at the roast? But we we lost, but we got
hired to work there for the summer our gate.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So you really won. Yes, And what's that Tom Jones
impersonator doing now at prison? Exactly? All right? So you're
started up as a stand up and you did that
for a bunch of years in New York, ten years,
all right, and then you came out here to try
your hand at doing stand up out here or writing,
(08:45):
mostly writing.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
There was a point in my stand up in New
York when it was still there. It was like twenty five,
and I realized, you know, I'm not I'm not going
to be Carlin. I'm not going to be Robert Klein.
I'm you know, I thought ahead of like we know
what happens when I'm fifty. I don't like the road
at twenty five, I'm gonna be on the road. I'm
gonna be on boats. I just I admire the people
(09:07):
that can do that, but I just like I already
had been writing. I don't know if you know my
Rodney Dangerfield story.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So. I was seventeen eighteen and I was loving stand
up and I would get my little cassette recorder. Anybody,
any comic on TV, record the thing and play them
over and learn the jokes, learn the formula, right, tell
them to my friends. You know, I'm seventeen and I'm
talking about my lawyer and my ex wife or whatever,
you know. But of course Rodney was king this was
(09:37):
seventy five ish whatever on the Tonight Show with Carson
and especially him recorded jokes and just play him over
and over. And there was one night on Tonight Show
where Rodney kind of talked about himself for a minute.
He doesn't typically do that, but he talked about Dangerfields,
his club in New York City, and he said he
used to go by the name of Jackie Roy. So
(10:00):
my wheels in my head started turning. I'm like, I
know his formula. So, well, what if I sent a
page of jokes, a couple pages of jokes to Jackie Roy,
to the Dangerfields of Manhattan, right, got my mom's big
typewriter clunk clunk, typed out, you know, two pages of jokes,
all right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So already that's an entrepreneurial moment, that thing like, Okay,
I'm putting two and two together. This guy's real name
is Roy, last name is Roy. I got that. I
know where he works, I know where his place is,
and I'm going to put some jokes on a piece
of paper. Now did you know that that's what comedy
writers did, that they sent jokes to comedians. Were you
(10:39):
aware of that?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It was pure instinct. That's amazing. So that's amazing, right,
and West go By. I forget about it. So one
night after dinner, seven o'clock at night, I'm in my
paneled bedroom, you know, basement, and phone rings. My mom's
top of the stair. Mike, there's a Rodney on the
phone for you. I'm like, what, like, hello, Mike, it's running.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
How you doing you?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay? Yeah, well yeah, I got your jokes, you know,
are really good. You know, I really liked him. You know,
they're not for me though I can't use them, but
they're really you know. So he kept me on the
phone for fifteen twenty minutes nice, and I told him
I want to do stand up. He told me about
the clubs. You know, don't come to my club. It's
no good. You know, telling me about the improv and
the comic strip and do you know, and then it's
(11:24):
gonna take eight years before you're even funny, you know,
and it just right done, even sent like a handwritten
letter after that. Wow. So at that age you get
that endorsement, you're like, oh, well, I okay, you.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Know that's that's surprising honestly that he would take the time. Okay.
So you're seeing what's happening out there and you thought
it could be me or or I could be a
part of this. Right to me, there's a there's a
big leap or jump, and a pretty impressive one to
go from where you're starting to sort of build yourself
(11:59):
up to to look towards that and say, yeah, that's
a possibility for me.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well this might be helpful to sort of a lot
of people, because a lot of us grow up no
matter where we live, at some point like I can
be playing NBA, I could play I could be a
baseball player and make a lift, you know, and then
kids live with that dream for a while, you know,
and then real life kicks in. And that's what started
to happen. It was deemed that I was not college material, Okay,
(12:24):
so I was put in a vocation in high school.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And by your high school.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I don't know who did this. I don't know who
they were, but that's what the mess. I think there
was testing and okay, So I learned electronics in high school,
learned how to fix TVs and all that stuff. And
then out of high school I got a job at
NASA working on a space shuttle. So there I am.
I'm out of high school. I have a high school
girlfriend that were close for probably in our second year.
(12:51):
So this, this, I think, is a line and a
lot of people's lives of like, okay, the real life
is happening now, and this is what reality is. And
I felt it seeping in. I'm like, holy shit, I
got to make a choice. Now's the time to make
a choice. What's what's weird? I mean again that the
way things line up. Around that time. In Hartford, Connecticut,
there was a stand up comics competition and the winner
(13:15):
got to audition at the Improv in New York that
when you get a day or can you get to auditions?
And I won the contest and I got to New
York City and there I am at the fucking prime
time at the improv on a Saturday night and Limmo
pulls up and come out and they got people. And
then I go on stage and I pass at the improv.
(13:36):
So it's like things again, things that you do the
work and you hope things fall into place. And I'm like, okay,
I get the message. I get it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You know, it's it's it's good I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You know? Was it hard to give up NASA?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
NASA? Was? I worked in this tiny room with these
two Vietnam vets, guys who were little, you know, had
no sense of humor.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Right, they were not parades. You're not the one responsible
blowing up the Space Shuttle? Can I just nope?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Although I worked on the one that where the tiles
fell off.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
All right, yeah, that's fine. All right. Well, I mean
so you get to New York, you get a spot
at the improv and think, okay, I can make a
go of this, and then you do make a go
of it for ten years.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Ten years. And that's during that time when I realized,
you know, I can't be fifty and do it because
I'm not going to be those guys that I admire. Again,
that's interesting, like what how did I what told me that, right,
I think because I didn't want to. I think it
got to the point where my thing was making the
comics laugh in the back of the room. Right, So
(14:42):
where do you go with that?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Right? Well, I mean can the comics comic I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Or you become like, oh, we used to make us
laugh at the back of them of the improv. Co'm
right on our show, right.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Something happened, don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Is that where you started doing more writing for the people?
Is that what had Did other comics in the back
of the room say, he's funny, Can you write some
stuff for me? No?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Although I did go back to Rodney. I don't even
know if he remembered who I was or whatever, but
he just heard that I had jokes for him. So
and at Danger Fields in New York, his dressing room
was in the basement. I was there no windows, you know,
and I'm whatever, nineteen and have my little pages jokes
(15:45):
nervously like my wife. Right, and he's pacing and you know,
and he's always had a robe on and right, and
then he was in boxer.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Shorts in a robe and a wife beater.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And uh, at some point he stopped. Then I'm like, okay,
I got it, maybe a sale. And then he turns
around and starts paying in a sink. They don't get
me a toilet down, you know, I got a pee
in the sink. You know, it's like, okay, a show biziness, right,
that is show business. That is show business when you're
pay in the sink.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, it's people think it's the tuxedo on the stage
and it's everything behind the stage. Yeah. By the time
you arrived in l A, what did you know about
what was out here and the job situation and.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
What I knew how I want to do zero? But
I was teaching myself how to write half hours just
by picking my favorite shows at the time. I think
you know of the show the New Heart Show, m
hm h. That was my template as well as It's
Garry Shandling show. Right, So I just wrote with my
mom's top typewriter still and white out and whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Just did you write specscripts for those two shows? Yes?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, I wrote like three of each.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Just what else? I don't know how to There's nobody
who is going to help me or teach me. I
just got to go, Like the Holy Grail was I
found a like a with Thomas Show script at a
bookstore and I was like, wow, you know, that's how
many jokes are on the page and the three holes
on the thing, you know. So I kind of use
that as my template, and in the meantime, I got
(17:19):
there be friends with Bob Odenkirk, who came in to
write for SNL and he was coming into I'm Proud
to do stand up. So I ended up writing just
like freelance jokes for Dennis Miller for a weekend update.
So I got to hang out at the show and
at the offices, and for some reason I'd keep running
into Alan Zuaibel there to like this is odd. Like
(17:41):
in the middle of Times Square, I ran into him
and he's just like, what are you doing? And I go,
I just I'm still cranking out scripts, figuring things out.
He goes, what have you been writing? And I said, well,
it's Gary Shandling show and creator, and he said send
me your best. So then I hear from two weeks
later and he says, can you come to LA And
he had a it wasn't for Gary show, he had
(18:04):
a show called The Boys right, and he had me
come out and that was my move to la.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Oh wow, It's Gary Shanling show. Spacscript got me my
first job on it Tracey Yellman show.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
How about that?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So there you go, that's what we share that in common.
And also it was not bought by It's Gary Shanling Show.
Right But okay, so you came out here and with
the job on the Boys. That show lasted for fourteen years,
so yes, you were in locked with that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But I didn't hang anything in the office wall. In fact,
you know, this is what it's like. You know, I
was getting paid nine hundred dollars a week or something,
and I'm so excited about that. My office was literally
as I'm walking into the down the hall there pulling
the copying machine out and then go and here's your office.
And it was like in the bathrooms and showers you
(18:53):
had to walk through my office, and Shanling was on
the lot, you know, in the office is a lot,
and then he'd come in and take a shower and
the I'm like, in.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Your yeah, that's so funny. Was it Gower or the
ABC Prospect? But this was to me and may like
es and l you know, and I knew whose white
belt was anyone who wanted to.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Be a writer knew Bell. Yeah, so I'm also my
first job. I'm at the table with him. Yeah. But
you ask like, what did I know coming out here? First?
I was like, wait a minute. You just sitting together
in one room all day, and because I had worked
on some weird cable shows in New York, and you
(19:34):
write your stuff and then you hand it in, you know,
and it's like, well, so what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You know, different when you're creating stories, right, So, like
it's a whole different thing sitting in a room watching them.
I was a runner on It's Scary Shandling Show, so
I got to watch how they made the sausage and
in the writer's room and how they sort of picked
out the stories, what was rejected, I was accepted, and
what Gary liked and what Alan liked and all that
(19:59):
kind of stuff. So it was sort of I got
to see a little bit of how they made it,
and then you can tell why it's helpful for a
group of people, really smart people to sit together and
find what's good.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah. Yeah, And it was just my neaive te too
of like.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Okay, did take a while for you to sort of
adjust to being in the room and figuring out when
to speak up and when not to speak up.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yes, yes, The room throughout my whole career has been
interesting because each room is a different date, a blind
date basically. So I still never got over the fact
I could be in one room and I'm like the
king of the room, right, and the very next job,
I'm like, no, I got no, you know, which is
(20:45):
probably one of my weaknesses, because I think there's most
writers can adapt to any room or tone or feeling
and jump in.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And it's not that different from showing up at the
bar with the cool kids and trying to make your
way to impress the cool Well.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Sometimes you know, it's you do all your tricks and
if they're not responding right, then you're fucked, right, Like
my my test is it's been called the up and away.
So it's this like if somebody does a pitch and
it's like just weird or outrageous or vaguely insulting or something,
(21:21):
I pretend to be outraged, and with that I just
gather everything on a desk and just keep fucking and
then storm out right and if that doesn't get the
right reaction, Like one show I worked on I'm getting
PTSD already. I did that and stormed out of the room.
And then they're all like, is he okay?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Ah? Oh shit, I don't like So how long you
wait around the corner? And then when you didn't get
the reaction you wanted, how long you wait to bring
the stuff back? Like that seems like a very interminable
moment of just like it's not going over, but I
still have to bring my stuff back.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Well, it works ninety percent of the time.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Oh I know, I've done it many times.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yes, okay, yeah, what.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Was your What was your best writers room experience?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Probably Futurama? Yeah, yeah, I was there for I'm never sure,
five seasons or something. David X. Cohen is a fantastic
showrunner because it's just a simple thing. It's like he
doesn't get political. He doesn't create camps, which happens a
lot in rooms, and anything you pitch is considered or
(22:31):
you're not, like, are you okay? What did you pick?
Saying you know, it's just it's about getting the work
done and feeling free. You know, you don't put editors
on and you just get into the play. You find
the play in the work. There's a way to say no,
that doesn't hurt your feelings. Yeah too, just like not
(22:52):
right for this one, you know, Yeah, it does not
say you are a terrible person for pitching that. Yeah. Yeah.
I worked for Ed Weinberger. That was my second job.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
My second job, famously a scary person.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And by the way, when I was five years old,
I met Ed Weinberger and my dad worked with Ed
Weinberger on the Dean Martin Show or something like that,
and he scared the shit out of me. Now because
he did anything. He just his countenance. Yeah, his vibe
gave off a very negative.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Mean Yeah it was. It was grunting and grumbling and
you could almost see a cartoon smoke ryan coming out
of his face.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
And did you have a way with him?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Like you could get past again my second job, and
you know, you'd pitch a joke and he'd be like,
you're not going to fight for that joke? Are you
a I go for a minute, Yeah, that'd be a
foolish minute. I would just be like, okay, so I
shouldn't pitch, right, what do you want exactly? You know?
But luckily on that show it was with Alan Kirshbaum
(23:52):
and Phil Rosenthal. I worked on like three shows with
those guys, and that was I mean it was fantastic, right, you.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Know, Alan was ful, Phil is delightful. Yeah, it's interesting
that you all met in front of the least delightful guy. Yeah,
and Ed period Weinberger.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Fascinating. So so what shows did you work on? Did
you working down the Shore?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Okay, how is that great?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
That was great. Lu Schneider was in the cast. Who
a stand up comedy friend that you know who's great,
And it was just fun, relaxed and again it's a
situation about just doing the work right, you know. We
worked together on Coach. Coach was fantastic. It was like
a country club, right, it was like season seven.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Who was running Coach at the time?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Alan? I mean, first of all, Phil was there, right,
and Phil the foodie. He would set it up where
we would get lunch from around the country. He would
order the day before. What's the day we got the
crabs from Maryland? Oh? Great, you know right, So that
was great. And then Alan was a great showrunner. I
mean Alan can break twenty two stories in like two
(25:02):
and a half days, right, you know, so we're we
would come in at ten, start at ten thirty, talk
for a half hour about where we're gonna go for lunch, right,
you know, and then work for two hours, and then
Alan and I would have a cigar break and then
work for three min Alan.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Had the large ess of a guy who was seventy
five years old. I even when the time I assumed
he was thirty three years Yeah. Yeah, he had the
countenance of somebody who knew exactly what they It goes
like this, and then it goes like this, and it
goes like this and goes like this. Now great, if
you're the showrunner, fantastic because it will go like that
(25:38):
and go like that. But that's not the only possibility.
But if you say it like it's the only possibility
and you're the showrunner, everybody's jumping on board. Right, It's
a good day because you're getting to the next steps.
It's Fitch is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, it's funny with Technically Ed Weinberger was the show runner,
creator co creator of the first show I worked with
him and Phil. It was called baby Talk based on
the look who's talking? This was Tony Danz's voice is
talking baby, And I mean, it's where do you go
from there. I don't know what's uh. So Ed would
(26:11):
show up two days a week. But the worst was
he would show up the last run through before shoot,
you know, and then go, no, it doesn't work right,
and we're shooting the next day. So every Thursday, you know,
at seven o'clock at night, we're starting over for a
shoot the next.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Day for no reason.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Usually, but Alan and at Weinberger, we'd be in the room,
but they'd be together. Alan would just scribble on his
script cover and go all right, goes to the doctor.
Doctor doesn't have a thing. So they get a car
and they drive across down to the wrong place, right
and nope, And then Alan break another story. Okay, so
he's got to get to church. Then I don't get
then just scribble the thing all the acts, no, and
(26:53):
then finally find a story. There's six feets one of
bullet points on a page. Ed would leave, and then
Alan would split scenes and then beat it right from scratch.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Right. That is both remarkable and frustrating. Such a waste
of time. Yeah, like, and usually usually the person who
comes in and says that this doesn't work, who hasn't
been in the room. You need to find a way
to make it work or suggest a way to make
it work. And that have the sets that are already built,
the actors who are already hired. You gotta work within
(27:24):
the box that is that is given. Very frustrating.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
And this was a show that George Clooney was in. Yeah,
young George Clooney who got in a fight with Ed
Weinberger on the set and then run through Clooney through
a script at his head, you know. And we we
stopped to run through and Ed came into our offices
and he says, I'm gonna I'm gonna break his legs.
(27:47):
What are you talking about? There's a guy I can
call right And and Alan spent a half hour talking
him down because it sounded like you could really do
it right. I ran into George Clooney four or five
years ago at a bar, and I knowing it would
remember me, but I remember the incident and he said
that was the worst experience in my career. And I
(28:08):
got in a fist fight with David O. Russell on
Three Kings.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
So are you boys funny? And do they are they
interested in comedy?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well? I had nothing to do with this, but they're
they're Hollywood boys. One is working at AI startup company
that's developing cinematic tools to build basically movies and content
out of whole cloth.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
For example, my son built with AI and the tools
they give him and the tools they're developing. It's a
forty to fifty seconds of animation. It's a guy running
towards camera through city fast, you know, zipping by right,
and then throughout that time the genre of the cartoon
(29:02):
changes like six times. So one is, you know, steamboat Willie,
the other's anime, then it's a spider Man, and it
changes fully developed, fully realized. So in my experience in animation,
that would be you know, two hundred fifty thousand dollars
to make it. It take four and a half months. He
did it for a few hundred dollars in an afternoon, right,
(29:25):
So that's you know the world we're.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
In right now. Yeah, it's an amazing tool that will
help make amazing things, but it will also a lot
of people whose job it is to draw animated things
will not be able to do that job.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Right, And my other son, I have identical twin boys.
My other son is working an agent program at CAA.
So he's an agent's assistant over.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
There, so they are both show busy kids. Yes, all right,
well that's good. So here let's get to the point
where like when we spoke, I said, hey, come do
the show. I said, well, you got to catch me
before I leave. Yes, And I was like, and I
had seen your posts on Facebook or saying you're hitting
the road, and I was like, oh, okay, now you're
(30:12):
not the first of my friends and show businists who
decided to hit the road. Many of them don't go
quite as far as Connecticut. They go to Santa Barbara
or some other place. From the story that you've told
me thus far, you've always been forward thinking, and now
that seems like that's part of what's going on. When
was the decision made to say, okay, let's get out
(30:32):
of here and let's figure out a place to go.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It was, again, kind of what we've been talking about.
It's like listening to my instincts, you know, really trying
to pay attention to what's going on right and what
I've been doing, and so all of a sudden, I
felt like there's going to start to be limits. First,
the first red flag was when my agent said we
(30:57):
need a picture along with your submissions. I'm like, that's
not good, right, I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Then, COVID, you know, kind of capsized everything, you know,
for a long time, and I started to feel vulnerable,
not only health wise, but like I'm gonna feel like
I'm starting over. And then I kind of find my footing.
Then there's strikes, and then I'm vulnerable again. But during
(31:24):
this time, I'm working. But it's all stuff online. I'm
not leaving my house. It's it's development, it's it's specscripts,
it's all that stuff. So I'm at home. I'm at
home for four years. So I look at the rising
costs of everything around me. Also there again, it's like
a whole series of things, like they changed the zoning
(31:46):
in our neighborhood where they could start building you know,
four plexus. So okay that my value of my property
is going to start to go down. The fires were
a little scary, right, even the Trump stuff I got. No,
it's like I'm going to feel vulnerable again. Yeah, you know,
Plus I'm not I'm I'm looking at fifty years I
(32:08):
think in this business, you know, I'm not. I'm not
a kid. Because I also feel like unless it's a
bunch of friends. You know, I can't really see myself
going into a sitcom room right now because I am
the age of everyone's dad, you know, so that unless
it's my own show, right, fine of course, but you know,
(32:29):
so I'm not fighting for that. And I started writing
screenplays and I'm loving it, you know. So I could
live anywhere and do that and then to see what
the property I can get, you know, for a quarter
of the price of where I'm at right now, you know,
and my sons are well entrenched in their career. They're
(32:50):
launched right so I felt like, you know, if I'm
going to ever move, now, is the time right?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And then is it planning? Continue writing and continue right
there and do the screenplays and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yes, I sold a series in Canada of Congratulations, eight episodes.
It's with I worked with these guys, the Trailer Park Boys,
and they have a production company and they have a
lot of cachet they do, and they have this weird
business model that it's like, we'll just make the shows
and sell them. Let's do it right, And like, okay,
(33:27):
you know, so that is starting kind of right away.
So I get to bring l a stress with me,
you know, but where are they shooting in helfax?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, okay, So it's kind of the best of both
worlds right there. You know. So that's it's kind of
a nice time to segue into the next life. And
now I'm like an acre of land and more rooms
in a house than I need, and just you know,
and I have family there, you know, so it certainly
(33:59):
makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, can I think it's beautiful, can.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Be and also too, you know, it's it's I feel
like friends are moving away, right, friends are passing away. Yeah,
you know, so it's not it's just not the same,
you know.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
It's definitely things have changed. And yes, it's weird when
people leave, weirder when people die.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I'm always surprised that, Yeah, don't.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Be alone with.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I always kind of you know. I talk about this
in my book because there's always something interesting. I think
in if you got to go back and talk to
your seventeen year old. So what's the title of the book.
It's a funny thing and it's available on your Amazons
and you're Amazons. But I think this is always interesting
thing for maybe anyone who likes in show business. If
(35:07):
I were able to go and talk to my seventeen
year old self, yes and say here's what's going to
happen in your life, I would be like, holy shit,
yeah really, I mean Hollywood sadly has this thing of
like helping you forget your accomplishments, right, you know. But again,
if you were able to talk to your kid's self,
(35:27):
you know, it's like that. I'll work with who I
did what.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
You know, It's like, our business is about rejection, right,
constant and total and always rejection. And even when you
succell something, you're punched in the face by a bad
number that they want to pay, right, or something that's
a constant barrage of negativity thrown at you while you're
even being successful in doing what you're.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Doing right, And then when there is success, you don't
even necessarily get a pat on the back.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
That's why I think I put too much weight in awards,
you know. Like again, but the part of the like
winning the Emmy was not about I showed the business
what I could do. I'm talking to my seventeen year olds,
so right, look a look at what we did.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now, I'll work forever it was what'd you win the
Emmy for Futurama?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
What are the shows did you beat? Beat the Simpsons?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yes, Family Guy, I think so, Bob's Burgers. All right, yeah,
good for you, you know, but it was fun night,
that's the point.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, it's a fun night. You get to go up
on stage, you take the trophy. I feel like the
times when you didn't win didn't mean the show wasn't
the best show, and the times when you win doesn't
mean the show is the best show. But it is
fun to get the trophy.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Right, the hardware right, It's it's a goalpost, I guess
for me, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Got it my dad. Growing up, my dad had three
Emmys on a shelf, so I figured, okay, well you know,
I'm not going to do that. But I wound up
getting four Emmys, one more than my dad. And it
was a joy in that, even though I know Emmys
are not anything, and as time goes on and these
may not exist anymore, I don't even know how they
(37:06):
would adjust those awards. The Oscars and Emmys are all
just one award soon, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I don't know. One of my most proud things though,
and I didn't know how to share it. But I
created the first animated series for what was supposed to
be YouTube read, so they were trying to create that
into it right. And when it was to be released,
a building on Sunset over an eirwhere Tower Records was,
(37:33):
you know, a nine story building. They put the poster,
they put the whole building for the premier of the
show was a big billboard.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, so you're driving through a Santa strip and there's
thing up there.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I love that. I always when I've ever created a show,
it's like, where are our billboards? And they say, you know,
the billboards don't do anything. They don't advertise it, they
don't have it's all ego. It's like for the it's
for the ego of the show or the studio or
the I said, well, I have an ego, Yeah, sign
up for me.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, And that's what it is. I think it's like
when that's kind of sadly, I guess it's sort of
a pat on the back, you know. So then you
feel like when you're starting to have success and more
people are calling and my brand, I'm gone, Well the
second I'm like to two bad things in a row.
Nobody's gonna call me again, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Right, And the answer is probably you know, like like yeah,
your holy. When you're hot, you're hot, as Jerry Reid
one said, and when you're not, you're not.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Like it's so kind of you get so beat up.
Like this series in Canada, every step of the way
everything is happening. Like today it's like, all right, we're
gonna let's go to HR figure out what the deal
is and what the payment scheduled. And I'm still in
my mind, I'm like, it's not it's not happening, right,
I don't believe it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
All right, you know it is happening. That's great, and
then you get to make it good.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Well we'll see about that, no, you will.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I mean, that's that's the beauty of it is you
get to go do it and mix it up and
when their problems, you fix them and that's great.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
What's what's fun about out the Canadian structure, like working
with the Trailer Park boys is they just maybe it's
like the old school, like with Thomas or whatever, where
they don't have to deal with executives. Right, you know,
it was just me and those guys writing the show
and then you go make them right and that's it.
So that's kind of what this will be. It will be.
(39:20):
I'm in control. I don't have to answer to anybody, and.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Right, well, they only you still have to answer yourself.
Sometimes you write stuff that's not going to work and
then you have to fix it, or you think it's
working and they put up on stage or the actors saying, well,
that's something's wrong here, and you still have to fix it. Right,
There's always those challenges every time, right, But I've.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Seen I've been in situations I'm sure you have where
executives just a lot of them are kind of justifying
their job, or you're on track for one thing and
then you know, I just saw this movie about vampires.
We should do it that way. You know, you're like, right,
you know, development almost killed me. I mean it was
the first time I just went kind of really deep
(39:59):
in then to development stuff, and it was we developed
a thing for Nicholas Cage, an animated thing for Fox.
It was called Nicholas Cage is a vampire, right, based
on him being really a vampire. Okay, And you end
up spending years, right, right, And we write a draft
(40:21):
and take a month to hear from Nicholas Cage and
then we hear from him. We trust the notes and
can we talk to him now, Well he's in Bolivia.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
More screaming, I want more screaming. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It went on for two years, and finally we got
it to like he liked script. Fox like script. I
set up a table read a fox, got all my
favorites from Futurama, voice people and all the you know,
and luckily I knew. I said, Nicholas Cage is very mercurial,
right that show up. Yeah, so we're gonna set it up.
(40:53):
And he said he loved the script the day before,
I don't want to do this, and then there it
goes right right.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, So it's it's not the first time I've heard
that story, not about that show, but about a million
other shows.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's very hard.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
It's very hard, and you just you just learned to
kind of laugh at it or expect it, and I
kind of encourage like celebrating each step, right, you know
what I mean? Like, of course, you know, if you
sell the script, you're gonna and they say they want
to make it, you don't go they're going to make it.
You go oh, so and so is now attached to
the project to go out have a drinker. Friends. Celebrate
(41:28):
those moments and not really expected to happen. You know,
if it happens, that's icing on the cake.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, celebrate the step is right because you've done something. Yeah,
you finish your draft, You've gotten approval of something that
I agree with that completely. I don't do it enough,
but I should do it more. All right, Well, now
it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Now it's time for listener.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Man as dear chain guest, what's not funny?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Wow? There's so many ways I answer that, because there's
a lot.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Of not like one.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Uh, I don't know if I should say that, but
I sometimes feel like actors who are good, strong actors,
and then they think they're funny, right, and try to
be funny. They may get laughs, but and then they
think they're funnier, right, and they're you know, six layers
in deep of not being funny but thinking they're funny.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
That can happen. It's I'm always ask myself, what's what's
not funny? Like? Is there something too? Are there subjects
or areas that are too sad to be funny? And
I think not. I think there are approaches that are
on make things sad and unhappy, and they are approaches
that make it funny. Anthony jessel Nick. There's no area
(42:49):
that Anthony jessel Nick approaches that's not funny. He finds
a way to make it funny. Whether it's molestation or death,
there cancer or anything. The Holocaust, He's made jokes about
them all and they're funny. So there's not there's not
a subject matter that's too sad or too horrible to
(43:10):
be funny. There are ways to do things that are
absolutely unfunny.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And in a context. I guess that's why the roasts.
It's like, this is a roast, so you have to
understand that we can make fun of your mom dying
of cancer. Right, That's this is the this is the
field which we're playing.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Do you find it interesting that some people are super
offended or at least shocked that that's still on the table.
I mean, I thought it's strange that people were upset
about the Tom Brady roast because it's like, well, those jokes,
I said, well, those are roast jokes. That's what people
are signing up for, right, But people were saying no, well,
that's too far and it's not right.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I think people didn't understand the roast idea because people don't.
I just there's some people still don't understand what roasts
are or don't.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Approve like that. Maybe they understand, but they say, well
they shouldn't be there still still should be those things
should be off limits.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I know, I know, but it's like it's a baseball game,
but why are you using a baseball I mean, it
doesn't I'm not sure you know. That's the whole point
of gross ye be shocking and hopefully funny, you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Know for me, Like gut Field is not funny. Don't
know if you've seen that showing Fox. Yes, Okay, So
like they don't they say things as if they're saying
something funny, right, and then the punchline is wokeness or
something like that, And it's like, and I'm I'm very
happy with conservative liberal. I don't care if the joke structured.
(44:36):
The joke's great, but they don't have a structure. They
just have a catchphrase.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Their comedy adjacent Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
And that's very frustrating to me. All Right, So now
it's time for a moment of joy, A moment of joy,
a moment of joy?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Is she in town? Oh you're still back?
Speaker 3 (45:00):
You still got it?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You gotta see the musicality of that.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Come on, So this is where you tell me, yes,
something that brings you joy. And it cannot be hello,
work lookout, can't be family, hello, something else like I
would say that anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Come on, for Christ's sakes, I will say this, yes,
community community, but especially for me more selfishly, like the
comedy community, comedy friends. It's been part of my life
since you know, I was a teenager in the improv
of New York. So you meet these like minds, right,
(45:36):
and it's a safe zone, right, And it's a fun
zone and it's playful and you get to be a
kid in the way, like for as long as you're
we you can say anything and do anything and be idiots.
And it's something I just generated my whole career. That
(45:57):
the lunch for twenty five years, comedy writers, comedy friends, comedians.
You know, I had this Tuesday night drink night with
comics and comedy friends that went on for fifteen years
until COVID and it still continues on zoom. So and
I would have parties at my house by the way.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Thank you for not inviting me to any of these things.
I really appreciate it a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Jay is my unrequited friend.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
No, I can't, but I've always liked you. I feel
like we're part of the talk about that comedy, right group.
We're in that comedy group together.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yes, so, And you've been to parties at my house
in when I was sharing a house with Billiam. We
had that house in Larchmont, and I brought these factions
of people together, like the sitcom actors, the comedy writers,
the standards from New York, and people created relationships. And
it's how I met my wife through community. Because this
(46:59):
doesn't happen anymore. This is what's changed. Is there used
to be a shoot night in sitcoms, right, and then
all the actors, writers, everybody would meet at one or
two bars, and then everybody got to know each other
and everybody ended up working together. And you know, it's
it's where I met my wife, you know, it's you know,
(47:19):
you get jobs that way, you know. And that's probably
even another reason I'm moving because there we don't have
that anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Not as much. Yeah, it's it's few and far between,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Well Mike ro thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
This is swell. I had a blast.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Thank you for moving to Los Angeles whatever forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
A good job, thank you, good job.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Good decision. You make a lot of good decisions. Well
we'll see what happens, all right, but thanks for being here,
and thank you for being here the audience. I don't
belong with Jake Cogan. You are much appreciated. Please spend
time with somebody who want to spend time with in person.
It's good to have a conversation, very helpful, and if
you get the chance, you drop me a line at
(48:05):
dbawjk at gmail dot com and you can tell me
what you hate about me in my life and the show,
or you can tell me what you like and you
can suggest a listener mail question. But I like to
have a conversation, so that would be nice. So keep
a conversation going between us and have a great day
and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Don't be alone with jj Coga
Strawt Media. Hey, I'm Mike Row and you can hear
me on don't be alone with j Cogan, especially if
you don't have pants on.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Don't be alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hello, cognation, Hello, don't be a owners. It's me Ja
Cogan and you are watching don't be alone with Ja Cogan.
I am really thrilled about the positive reaction I get
for the show all the time. I get emails and
comments in person, and people are liking the show and
they're listening. My friends are and people who are not
my friends as yet to be known friends are enjoying it.
(00:41):
And you can be known simply by writing to me
at dbawjk at gmail dot com, and I will get
to know you, and you'll get to know me, and
you can tell me all the things you like about
the show, and all the things you hate about the show,
and all the things you want the show to be.
I would love to have a community of people that
I can refer to and enjoy and I'm getting that,
(01:03):
So be part of that. That'd be fun. One last thing,
I just started a substack. What a substack? It's just
another annoying thing on the internet, But substack is specifically
for this show, and we'll feature things I write about
the show. Every week. We'll have clips that have been
cut out of other shows that were interesting, and we'll
put it on the Substack. So there'll be special material,
(01:26):
special videos, special messages, things that you can only see
on the Substack. So join the Substack. Jay Cogan at Substack.
Our guest today is Mike row very very funny comedy
writer who's written some amazing shows like Futurama and The
PJS and dozens of other shows, he said, maybe fifty
(01:46):
other shows. And what we're going to be talking about
is something that's very real in show business right now,
because show business is in flux and is very strange,
and a lot of people are struggling to get through,
and a lot of people decided to pack it up
and go. Mike Rowe has decided to pack it up
and go. He's going to back home to Connecticut with
(02:09):
his wife and they're going to buy a house and
live there, and he'll still work from Connecticut and using
the Internet and writing his screenplays and stuff like that,
but he's leaving Hollywood. That's a big decision for any
of us, but a lot of people are thinking about it,
and so I wanted to find out what went into
that decision. When do you think it's time to go?
(02:30):
When do you think it is time to give up
on this city or at least start a new life
somewhere else. Mike will tell us that, and he will
tell us so much more also about the brave, smart,
interesting decisions he's made about his life all the way through,
about when to jump into show business when you're not
from show business at all, when to jump in from
(02:52):
performing to writing, and how you keep your career going,
and how you decide it's time to sort of move
away and do it for somewhere else. These are all
amazing decisions, and he's a smart guy and he's done
it well. So we'll hear more about that right after.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This don't be alone with.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm here with the delightful Micro, and to be clear,
not the Dirty Jobs Micro, which I've actually been asked
to come on a podcast. And it wasn't until we
were on the air that this woman realized it was
the wrong micro see you and say he looked different,
it was it was a zoom and turned it on
(03:35):
and she was befuddled and right confused.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
He's kind of maga, right, that other micro he's crazy
mega maga, dirty pro dirty jobs and an opera singer
something like that.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
He has a sign and car salesman.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So that is not me. So I actually stayed on
the podcast and for an hour just talked about myself.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Fantastic, Well you're here to do that, and I couldn't
get the other micro.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I tried, well, you know, if you a car from him, perhaps.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Well, no, I did not try. I'm a big fan
of yours and for years, one of the things that
you're known for is being super funny. Like if I
needed jokes, right, there are lots of comedy writers out
there who I would not turn.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
To for jokes. Right. The good and bad for me
is I sort of wish my reputation on the show
would be as great drafts. That would be the preference, right,
But you have what you have. Like I worked on
the Comedy Central roadst approakely. I don't know a dozen
of them, and the job was, like you're hired to
(04:36):
say for three weeks, right, you just write jokes all day.
You're rolling at nine and then you're there two seven,
so you're writing I don't know one hundred jokes a day.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Right, you're reading about the person that you're made, writing
jokes about trying to find pieces of their lives to
make fun of, and then writing shit ton of.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Jokes, right, and then by the end of it, you're
submitting I don't know a thousand jokes at least, and
if you're lucky, you get two to eight jokes on
the roast itself. Right.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I mean that's the nature of those shows, is like
you have to write a million jokes to get a
few that are good.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Right, can I bring I'll brag about one joke for
roast Snoop Dogg Donald Trump roast? I had Snoop say
Trump is thinking of running for president? Why not? It's
not the first time he kicked a black family out
of their home. Ah. That's a great joke, and it
became part of the democratic like meme world with any
(05:32):
of my doing. Right, And then I'm watching Conan one
night and Snoops on, and then Conan starts asking him
about that joke. Just you know, for a joke to
have this weird afterlife. Yeah, that's special. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Some of the roast jokes from the Comedy Central roast
and even from this latest Tom Brady, I'll remember my
hunt entire life. I just really funny, funny.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's such a fun visceral thing because for me, especially
because I don't have to tell the joke, and I
get to kind of watch from the back of the
room and feel like I'm telling the joke from for
whoever saying it right, and it's you get to really
hit somebody in the gut really hard and you.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Know, well, I mean you did stand up comedy, yes,
so you did used to tell the jokes.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes, I did stand up comedy for I started when
I was in high school, did the high school Talent Show.
That was my first time in it was it was
really weird because I have this thing where I was
like the class clown, but the teachers loved me as
the class clown and wouldn't embrace you.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
So it was like in you know, Simith's class, you know,
the teacher would say, you know what do you think
of the Louisiana purchase a nice speed he's in a
dance to you know what, like whatever, kid joke And
then but the room I had a room and they
would just laugh it would be fantastic. I would leave
their sweating like I just didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
But but obviously you didn't interrupt the flow of teaching
too much, otherwise they would have hated you.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, you picked your spots.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah that's good. So you had you were a class
town with taste, with timing and taste.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yes, that's good. From there, there was another kid in
school who was funny too, and I brought him in
as a comedy partner. His name is Bill Hollywood. And
this is in Connecticut, small factory town, Waterbury, and there
was a comedy competition at the ground Round and so
we were Hollywood in Row and the we did a
(07:29):
bit if the world was attacked, and on TV there
was the you know, the the announcement the world was attacked.
It would still be interrupted with commercials, right, and I
was kind of the It was kind of like Skyles
and Henderson. I would do all these weird sounds, so
it'd be like the world was being attacked, and I'd
(07:51):
be you know, but first this word from Nesley's and
then I would do this commercial, you know, and the
prize was like fifty bucks and you get the little
plastic baseball helmet fudge ice cream. Sure, so we lost
to the Tom Jones impersonator, but.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It's not unusual.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Ah nice, So I don't get that's where were you
at the roast? But we we lost, but we got
hired to work there for the summer our gate.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So you really won. Yes, And what's that Tom Jones
impersonator doing now at prison? Exactly? All right? So you're
started up as a stand up and you did that
for a bunch of years in New York, ten years,
all right, and then you came out here to try
your hand at doing stand up out here or writing,
(08:45):
mostly writing.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
There was a point in my stand up in New
York when it was still there. It was like twenty five,
and I realized, you know, I'm not I'm not going
to be Carlin. I'm not going to be Robert Klein.
I'm you know, I thought ahead of like we know
what happens when I'm fifty. I don't like the road
at twenty five, I'm gonna be on the road. I'm
gonna be on boats. I just I admire the people
(09:07):
that can do that, but I just like I already
had been writing. I don't know if you know my
Rodney Dangerfield story.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So. I was seventeen eighteen and I was loving stand
up and I would get my little cassette recorder. Anybody,
any comic on TV, record the thing and play them
over and learn the jokes, learn the formula, right, tell
them to my friends. You know, I'm seventeen and I'm
talking about my lawyer and my ex wife or whatever,
you know. But of course Rodney was king this was
(09:37):
seventy five ish whatever on the Tonight Show with Carson
and especially him recorded jokes and just play him over
and over. And there was one night on Tonight Show
where Rodney kind of talked about himself for a minute.
He doesn't typically do that, but he talked about Dangerfields,
his club in New York City, and he said he
used to go by the name of Jackie Roy. So
(10:00):
my wheels in my head started turning. I'm like, I
know his formula. So, well, what if I sent a
page of jokes, a couple pages of jokes to Jackie Roy,
to the Dangerfields of Manhattan, right, got my mom's big
typewriter clunk clunk, typed out, you know, two pages of jokes,
all right.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So already that's an entrepreneurial moment, that thing like, Okay,
I'm putting two and two together. This guy's real name
is Roy, last name is Roy. I got that. I
know where he works, I know where his place is,
and I'm going to put some jokes on a piece
of paper. Now did you know that that's what comedy
writers did, that they sent jokes to comedians. Were you
(10:39):
aware of that?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It was pure instinct. That's amazing. So that's amazing, right,
and West go By. I forget about it. So one
night after dinner, seven o'clock at night, I'm in my
paneled bedroom, you know, basement, and phone rings. My mom's
top of the stair. Mike, there's a Rodney on the
phone for you. I'm like, what, like, hello, Mike, it's running.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
How you doing you?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay? Yeah, well yeah, I got your jokes, you know,
are really good. You know, I really liked him. You know,
they're not for me though I can't use them, but
they're really you know. So he kept me on the
phone for fifteen twenty minutes nice, and I told him
I want to do stand up. He told me about
the clubs. You know, don't come to my club. It's
no good. You know, telling me about the improv and
the comic strip and do you know, and then it's
(11:24):
gonna take eight years before you're even funny, you know,
and it just right done, even sent like a handwritten
letter after that. Wow. So at that age you get
that endorsement, you're like, oh, well, I okay, you.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Know that's that's surprising honestly that he would take the time. Okay.
So you're seeing what's happening out there and you thought
it could be me or or I could be a
part of this. Right to me, there's a there's a
big leap or jump, and a pretty impressive one to
go from where you're starting to sort of build yourself
(11:59):
up to to look towards that and say, yeah, that's
a possibility for me.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well this might be helpful to sort of a lot
of people, because a lot of us grow up no
matter where we live, at some point like I can
be playing NBA, I could play I could be a
baseball player and make a lift, you know, and then
kids live with that dream for a while, you know,
and then real life kicks in. And that's what started
to happen. It was deemed that I was not college material, Okay,
(12:24):
so I was put in a vocation in high school.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And by your high school.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I don't know who did this. I don't know who
they were, but that's what the mess. I think there
was testing and okay, So I learned electronics in high school,
learned how to fix TVs and all that stuff. And
then out of high school I got a job at
NASA working on a space shuttle. So there I am.
I'm out of high school. I have a high school
girlfriend that were close for probably in our second year.
(12:51):
So this, this, I think, is a line and a
lot of people's lives of like, okay, the real life
is happening now, and this is what reality is. And
I felt it seeping in. I'm like, holy shit, I
got to make a choice. Now's the time to make
a choice. What's what's weird? I mean again that the
way things line up. Around that time. In Hartford, Connecticut,
there was a stand up comics competition and the winner
(13:15):
got to audition at the Improv in New York that
when you get a day or can you get to auditions?
And I won the contest and I got to New
York City and there I am at the fucking prime
time at the improv on a Saturday night and Limmo
pulls up and come out and they got people. And
then I go on stage and I pass at the improv.
(13:36):
So it's like things again, things that you do the
work and you hope things fall into place. And I'm like, okay,
I get the message. I get it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
You know, it's it's it's good I'm doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You know? Was it hard to give up NASA?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
NASA? Was? I worked in this tiny room with these
two Vietnam vets, guys who were little, you know, had
no sense of humor.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Right, they were not parades. You're not the one responsible
blowing up the Space Shuttle? Can I just nope?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Although I worked on the one that where the tiles
fell off.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
All right, yeah, that's fine. All right. Well, I mean
so you get to New York, you get a spot
at the improv and think, okay, I can make a
go of this, and then you do make a go
of it for ten years.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Ten years. And that's during that time when I realized,
you know, I can't be fifty and do it because
I'm not going to be those guys that I admire. Again,
that's interesting, like what how did I what told me that, right,
I think because I didn't want to. I think it
got to the point where my thing was making the
comics laugh in the back of the room. Right, So
(14:42):
where do you go with that?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Right? Well, I mean can the comics comic I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Or you become like, oh, we used to make us
laugh at the back of them of the improv. Co'm
right on our show, right.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Something happened, don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Is that where you started doing more writing for the people?
Is that what had Did other comics in the back
of the room say, he's funny, Can you write some
stuff for me? No?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Although I did go back to Rodney. I don't even
know if he remembered who I was or whatever, but
he just heard that I had jokes for him. So
and at Danger Fields in New York, his dressing room
was in the basement. I was there no windows, you know,
and I'm whatever, nineteen and have my little pages jokes
(15:45):
nervously like my wife. Right, and he's pacing and you know,
and he's always had a robe on and right, and
then he was in boxer.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Shorts in a robe and a wife beater.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And uh, at some point he stopped. Then I'm like, okay,
I got it, maybe a sale. And then he turns
around and starts paying in a sink. They don't get
me a toilet down, you know, I got a pee
in the sink. You know, it's like, okay, a show biziness, right,
that is show business. That is show business when you're
pay in the sink.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, it's people think it's the tuxedo on the stage
and it's everything behind the stage. Yeah. By the time
you arrived in l A, what did you know about
what was out here and the job situation and.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
What I knew how I want to do zero? But
I was teaching myself how to write half hours just
by picking my favorite shows at the time. I think
you know of the show the New Heart Show, m
hm h. That was my template as well as It's
Garry Shandling show. Right, So I just wrote with my
mom's top typewriter still and white out and whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Just did you write specscripts for those two shows? Yes?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, I wrote like three of each.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Just what else? I don't know how to There's nobody
who is going to help me or teach me. I
just got to go, Like the Holy Grail was I
found a like a with Thomas Show script at a
bookstore and I was like, wow, you know, that's how
many jokes are on the page and the three holes
on the thing, you know. So I kind of use
that as my template, and in the meantime, I got
(17:19):
there be friends with Bob Odenkirk, who came in to
write for SNL and he was coming into I'm Proud
to do stand up. So I ended up writing just
like freelance jokes for Dennis Miller for a weekend update.
So I got to hang out at the show and
at the offices, and for some reason I'd keep running
into Alan Zuaibel there to like this is odd. Like
(17:41):
in the middle of Times Square, I ran into him
and he's just like, what are you doing? And I go,
I just I'm still cranking out scripts, figuring things out.
He goes, what have you been writing? And I said, well,
it's Gary Shandling show and creator, and he said send
me your best. So then I hear from two weeks
later and he says, can you come to LA And
he had a it wasn't for Gary show, he had
(18:04):
a show called The Boys right, and he had me
come out and that was my move to la.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Oh wow, It's Gary Shanling show. Spacscript got me my
first job on it Tracey Yellman show.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
How about that?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So there you go, that's what we share that in common.
And also it was not bought by It's Gary Shanling Show.
Right But okay, so you came out here and with
the job on the Boys. That show lasted for fourteen years,
so yes, you were in locked with that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But I didn't hang anything in the office wall. In fact,
you know, this is what it's like. You know, I
was getting paid nine hundred dollars a week or something,
and I'm so excited about that. My office was literally
as I'm walking into the down the hall there pulling
the copying machine out and then go and here's your office.
And it was like in the bathrooms and showers you
(18:53):
had to walk through my office, and Shanling was on
the lot, you know, in the office is a lot,
and then he'd come in and take a shower and
the I'm like, in.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Your yeah, that's so funny. Was it Gower or the
ABC Prospect? But this was to me and may like
es and l you know, and I knew whose white
belt was anyone who wanted to.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Be a writer knew Bell. Yeah, so I'm also my
first job. I'm at the table with him. Yeah. But
you ask like, what did I know coming out here? First?
I was like, wait a minute. You just sitting together
in one room all day, and because I had worked
on some weird cable shows in New York, and you
(19:34):
write your stuff and then you hand it in, you know,
and it's like, well, so what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You know, different when you're creating stories, right, So, like
it's a whole different thing sitting in a room watching them.
I was a runner on It's Scary Shandling Show, so
I got to watch how they made the sausage and
in the writer's room and how they sort of picked
out the stories, what was rejected, I was accepted, and
what Gary liked and what Alan liked and all that
(19:59):
kind of stuff. So it was sort of I got
to see a little bit of how they made it,
and then you can tell why it's helpful for a
group of people, really smart people to sit together and
find what's good.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah. Yeah, And it was just my neaive te too
of like.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Okay, did take a while for you to sort of
adjust to being in the room and figuring out when
to speak up and when not to speak up.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yes, yes, The room throughout my whole career has been
interesting because each room is a different date, a blind
date basically. So I still never got over the fact
I could be in one room and I'm like the
king of the room, right, and the very next job,
I'm like, no, I got no, you know, which is
(20:45):
probably one of my weaknesses, because I think there's most
writers can adapt to any room or tone or feeling
and jump in.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And it's not that different from showing up at the
bar with the cool kids and trying to make your
way to impress the cool Well.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Sometimes you know, it's you do all your tricks and
if they're not responding right, then you're fucked, right, Like
my my test is it's been called the up and away.
So it's this like if somebody does a pitch and
it's like just weird or outrageous or vaguely insulting or something,
(21:21):
I pretend to be outraged, and with that I just
gather everything on a desk and just keep fucking and
then storm out right and if that doesn't get the
right reaction, Like one show I worked on I'm getting
PTSD already. I did that and stormed out of the room.
And then they're all like, is he okay?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Ah? Oh shit, I don't like So how long you
wait around the corner? And then when you didn't get
the reaction you wanted, how long you wait to bring
the stuff back? Like that seems like a very interminable
moment of just like it's not going over, but I
still have to bring my stuff back.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Well, it works ninety percent of the time.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Oh I know, I've done it many times.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yes, okay, yeah, what.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Was your What was your best writers room experience?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Probably Futurama? Yeah, yeah, I was there for I'm never sure,
five seasons or something. David X. Cohen is a fantastic
showrunner because it's just a simple thing. It's like he
doesn't get political. He doesn't create camps, which happens a
lot in rooms, and anything you pitch is considered or
(22:31):
you're not, like, are you okay? What did you pick?
Saying you know, it's just it's about getting the work
done and feeling free. You know, you don't put editors
on and you just get into the play. You find
the play in the work. There's a way to say no,
that doesn't hurt your feelings. Yeah too, just like not
(22:52):
right for this one, you know, Yeah, it does not
say you are a terrible person for pitching that. Yeah. Yeah.
I worked for Ed Weinberger. That was my second job.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
My second job, famously a scary person.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And by the way, when I was five years old,
I met Ed Weinberger and my dad worked with Ed
Weinberger on the Dean Martin Show or something like that,
and he scared the shit out of me. Now because
he did anything. He just his countenance. Yeah, his vibe
gave off a very negative.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Mean Yeah it was. It was grunting and grumbling and
you could almost see a cartoon smoke ryan coming out
of his face.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
And did you have a way with him?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Like you could get past again my second job, and
you know, you'd pitch a joke and he'd be like,
you're not going to fight for that joke? Are you
a I go for a minute, Yeah, that'd be a
foolish minute. I would just be like, okay, so I
shouldn't pitch, right, what do you want exactly? You know?
But luckily on that show it was with Alan Kirshbaum
(23:52):
and Phil Rosenthal. I worked on like three shows with
those guys, and that was I mean it was fantastic, right, you.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Know, Alan was ful, Phil is delightful. Yeah, it's interesting
that you all met in front of the least delightful guy. Yeah,
and Ed period Weinberger.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Fascinating. So so what shows did you work on? Did
you working down the Shore?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Okay, how is that great?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
That was great. Lu Schneider was in the cast. Who
a stand up comedy friend that you know who's great,
And it was just fun, relaxed and again it's a
situation about just doing the work right, you know. We
worked together on Coach. Coach was fantastic. It was like
a country club, right, it was like season seven.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Who was running Coach at the time?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Alan? I mean, first of all, Phil was there, right,
and Phil the foodie. He would set it up where
we would get lunch from around the country. He would
order the day before. What's the day we got the
crabs from Maryland? Oh? Great, you know right, So that
was great. And then Alan was a great showrunner. I
mean Alan can break twenty two stories in like two
(25:02):
and a half days, right, you know, so we're we
would come in at ten, start at ten thirty, talk
for a half hour about where we're gonna go for lunch, right,
you know, and then work for two hours, and then
Alan and I would have a cigar break and then
work for three min Alan.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Had the large ess of a guy who was seventy
five years old. I even when the time I assumed
he was thirty three years Yeah. Yeah, he had the
countenance of somebody who knew exactly what they It goes
like this, and then it goes like this, and it
goes like this and goes like this. Now great, if
you're the showrunner, fantastic because it will go like that
(25:38):
and go like that. But that's not the only possibility.
But if you say it like it's the only possibility
and you're the showrunner, everybody's jumping on board. Right, It's
a good day because you're getting to the next steps.
It's Fitch is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, it's funny with Technically Ed Weinberger was the show runner,
creator co creator of the first show I worked with
him and Phil. It was called baby Talk based on
the look who's talking? This was Tony Danz's voice is
talking baby, And I mean, it's where do you go
from there. I don't know what's uh. So Ed would
(26:11):
show up two days a week. But the worst was
he would show up the last run through before shoot,
you know, and then go, no, it doesn't work right,
and we're shooting the next day. So every Thursday, you know,
at seven o'clock at night, we're starting over for a
shoot the next.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Day for no reason.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Usually, but Alan and at Weinberger, we'd be in the room,
but they'd be together. Alan would just scribble on his
script cover and go all right, goes to the doctor.
Doctor doesn't have a thing. So they get a car
and they drive across down to the wrong place, right
and nope, And then Alan break another story. Okay, so
he's got to get to church. Then I don't get
then just scribble the thing all the acts, no, and
(26:53):
then finally find a story. There's six feets one of
bullet points on a page. Ed would leave, and then
Alan would split scenes and then beat it right from scratch.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Right. That is both remarkable and frustrating. Such a waste
of time. Yeah, like, and usually usually the person who
comes in and says that this doesn't work, who hasn't
been in the room. You need to find a way
to make it work or suggest a way to make
it work. And that have the sets that are already built,
the actors who are already hired. You gotta work within
(27:24):
the box that is that is given. Very frustrating.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
And this was a show that George Clooney was in. Yeah,
young George Clooney who got in a fight with Ed
Weinberger on the set and then run through Clooney through
a script at his head, you know. And we we
stopped to run through and Ed came into our offices
and he says, I'm gonna I'm gonna break his legs.
(27:47):
What are you talking about? There's a guy I can
call right And and Alan spent a half hour talking
him down because it sounded like you could really do
it right. I ran into George Clooney four or five
years ago at a bar, and I knowing it would
remember me, but I remember the incident and he said
that was the worst experience in my career. And I
(28:08):
got in a fist fight with David O. Russell on
Three Kings.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
So are you boys funny? And do they are they
interested in comedy?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Well? I had nothing to do with this, but they're
they're Hollywood boys. One is working at AI startup company
that's developing cinematic tools to build basically movies and content
out of whole cloth.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
For example, my son built with AI and the tools
they give him and the tools they're developing. It's a
forty to fifty seconds of animation. It's a guy running
towards camera through city fast, you know, zipping by right,
and then throughout that time the genre of the cartoon
(29:02):
changes like six times. So one is, you know, steamboat Willie,
the other's anime, then it's a spider Man, and it
changes fully developed, fully realized. So in my experience in animation,
that would be you know, two hundred fifty thousand dollars
to make it. It take four and a half months. He
did it for a few hundred dollars in an afternoon, right,
(29:25):
So that's you know the world we're.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
In right now. Yeah, it's an amazing tool that will
help make amazing things, but it will also a lot
of people whose job it is to draw animated things
will not be able to do that job.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Right, And my other son, I have identical twin boys.
My other son is working an agent program at CAA.
So he's an agent's assistant over.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
There, so they are both show busy kids. Yes, all right,
well that's good. So here let's get to the point
where like when we spoke, I said, hey, come do
the show. I said, well, you got to catch me
before I leave. Yes, And I was like, and I
had seen your posts on Facebook or saying you're hitting
the road, and I was like, oh, okay, now you're
(30:12):
not the first of my friends and show businists who
decided to hit the road. Many of them don't go
quite as far as Connecticut. They go to Santa Barbara
or some other place. From the story that you've told
me thus far, you've always been forward thinking, and now
that seems like that's part of what's going on. When
was the decision made to say, okay, let's get out
(30:32):
of here and let's figure out a place to go.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It was, again, kind of what we've been talking about.
It's like listening to my instincts, you know, really trying
to pay attention to what's going on right and what
I've been doing, and so all of a sudden, I
felt like there's going to start to be limits. First,
the first red flag was when my agent said we
(30:57):
need a picture along with your submissions. I'm like, that's
not good, right, I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Then, COVID, you know, kind of capsized everything, you know,
for a long time, and I started to feel vulnerable,
not only health wise, but like I'm gonna feel like
I'm starting over. And then I kind of find my footing.
Then there's strikes, and then I'm vulnerable again. But during
(31:24):
this time, I'm working. But it's all stuff online. I'm
not leaving my house. It's it's development, it's it's specscripts,
it's all that stuff. So I'm at home. I'm at
home for four years. So I look at the rising
costs of everything around me. Also there again, it's like
a whole series of things, like they changed the zoning
(31:46):
in our neighborhood where they could start building you know,
four plexus. So okay that my value of my property
is going to start to go down. The fires were
a little scary, right, even the Trump stuff I got. No,
it's like I'm going to feel vulnerable again. Yeah, you know,
Plus I'm not I'm I'm looking at fifty years I
(32:08):
think in this business, you know, I'm not. I'm not
a kid. Because I also feel like unless it's a
bunch of friends. You know, I can't really see myself
going into a sitcom room right now because I am
the age of everyone's dad, you know, so that unless
it's my own show, right, fine of course, but you know,
(32:29):
so I'm not fighting for that. And I started writing
screenplays and I'm loving it, you know. So I could
live anywhere and do that and then to see what
the property I can get, you know, for a quarter
of the price of where I'm at right now, you know,
and my sons are well entrenched in their career. They're
(32:50):
launched right so I felt like, you know, if I'm
going to ever move, now, is the time right?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And then is it planning? Continue writing and continue right
there and do the screenplays and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yes, I sold a series in Canada of Congratulations, eight episodes.
It's with I worked with these guys, the Trailer Park Boys,
and they have a production company and they have a
lot of cachet they do, and they have this weird
business model that it's like, we'll just make the shows
and sell them. Let's do it right, And like, okay,
(33:27):
you know, so that is starting kind of right away.
So I get to bring l a stress with me,
you know, but where are they shooting in helfax?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, okay, So it's kind of the best of both
worlds right there. You know. So that's it's kind of
a nice time to segue into the next life. And
now I'm like an acre of land and more rooms
in a house than I need, and just you know,
and I have family there, you know, so it certainly
(33:59):
makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, can I think it's beautiful, can.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Be and also too, you know, it's it's I feel
like friends are moving away, right, friends are passing away. Yeah,
you know, so it's not it's just not the same,
you know.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
It's definitely things have changed. And yes, it's weird when
people leave, weirder when people die.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I'm always surprised that, Yeah, don't.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Be alone with.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I always kind of you know. I talk about this
in my book because there's always something interesting. I think
in if you got to go back and talk to
your seventeen year old. So what's the title of the book.
It's a funny thing and it's available on your Amazons
and you're Amazons. But I think this is always interesting
thing for maybe anyone who likes in show business. If
(35:07):
I were able to go and talk to my seventeen
year old self, yes and say here's what's going to
happen in your life, I would be like, holy shit,
yeah really, I mean Hollywood sadly has this thing of
like helping you forget your accomplishments, right, you know. But again,
if you were able to talk to your kid's self,
(35:27):
you know, it's like that. I'll work with who I
did what.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
You know, It's like, our business is about rejection, right,
constant and total and always rejection. And even when you
succell something, you're punched in the face by a bad
number that they want to pay, right, or something that's
a constant barrage of negativity thrown at you while you're
even being successful in doing what you're.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Doing right, And then when there is success, you don't
even necessarily get a pat on the back.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
That's why I think I put too much weight in awards,
you know. Like again, but the part of the like
winning the Emmy was not about I showed the business
what I could do. I'm talking to my seventeen year olds,
so right, look a look at what we did.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now, I'll work forever it was what'd you win the
Emmy for Futurama?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
What are the shows did you beat? Beat the Simpsons?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yes, Family Guy, I think so, Bob's Burgers. All right, yeah,
good for you, you know, but it was fun night,
that's the point.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, it's a fun night. You get to go up
on stage, you take the trophy. I feel like the
times when you didn't win didn't mean the show wasn't
the best show, and the times when you win doesn't
mean the show is the best show. But it is
fun to get the trophy.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Right, the hardware right, It's it's a goalpost, I guess
for me, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Got it my dad. Growing up, my dad had three
Emmys on a shelf, so I figured, okay, well you know,
I'm not going to do that. But I wound up
getting four Emmys, one more than my dad. And it
was a joy in that, even though I know Emmys
are not anything, and as time goes on and these
may not exist anymore, I don't even know how they
(37:06):
would adjust those awards. The Oscars and Emmys are all
just one award soon, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I don't know. One of my most proud things though,
and I didn't know how to share it. But I
created the first animated series for what was supposed to
be YouTube read, so they were trying to create that
into it right. And when it was to be released,
a building on Sunset over an eirwhere Tower Records was,
(37:33):
you know, a nine story building. They put the poster,
they put the whole building for the premier of the
show was a big billboard.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
That's exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, so you're driving through a Santa strip and there's
thing up there.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I love that. I always when I've ever created a show,
it's like, where are our billboards? And they say, you know,
the billboards don't do anything. They don't advertise it, they
don't have it's all ego. It's like for the it's
for the ego of the show or the studio or
the I said, well, I have an ego, Yeah, sign
up for me.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, And that's what it is. I think it's like
when that's kind of sadly, I guess it's sort of
a pat on the back, you know. So then you
feel like when you're starting to have success and more
people are calling and my brand, I'm gone, Well the
second I'm like to two bad things in a row.
Nobody's gonna call me again, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Right, And the answer is probably you know, like like yeah,
your holy. When you're hot, you're hot, as Jerry Reid
one said, and when you're not, you're not.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Like it's so kind of you get so beat up.
Like this series in Canada, every step of the way
everything is happening. Like today it's like, all right, we're
gonna let's go to HR figure out what the deal
is and what the payment scheduled. And I'm still in
my mind, I'm like, it's not it's not happening, right,
I don't believe it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
All right, you know it is happening. That's great, and
then you get to make it good.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Well we'll see about that, no, you will.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I mean, that's that's the beauty of it is you
get to go do it and mix it up and
when their problems, you fix them and that's great.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
What's what's fun about out the Canadian structure, like working
with the Trailer Park boys is they just maybe it's
like the old school, like with Thomas or whatever, where
they don't have to deal with executives. Right, you know,
it was just me and those guys writing the show
and then you go make them right and that's it.
So that's kind of what this will be. It will be.
(39:20):
I'm in control. I don't have to answer to anybody, and.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Right, well, they only you still have to answer yourself.
Sometimes you write stuff that's not going to work and
then you have to fix it, or you think it's
working and they put up on stage or the actors saying, well,
that's something's wrong here, and you still have to fix it. Right,
There's always those challenges every time, right, But I've.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Seen I've been in situations I'm sure you have where
executives just a lot of them are kind of justifying
their job, or you're on track for one thing and
then you know, I just saw this movie about vampires.
We should do it that way. You know, you're like, right,
you know, development almost killed me. I mean it was
the first time I just went kind of really deep
(39:59):
in then to development stuff, and it was we developed
a thing for Nicholas Cage, an animated thing for Fox.
It was called Nicholas Cage is a vampire, right, based
on him being really a vampire. Okay, And you end
up spending years, right, right, And we write a draft
(40:21):
and take a month to hear from Nicholas Cage and
then we hear from him. We trust the notes and
can we talk to him now, Well he's in Bolivia.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
More screaming, I want more screaming. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It went on for two years, and finally we got
it to like he liked script. Fox like script. I
set up a table read a fox, got all my
favorites from Futurama, voice people and all the you know,
and luckily I knew. I said, Nicholas Cage is very mercurial,
right that show up. Yeah, so we're gonna set it up.
(40:53):
And he said he loved the script the day before,
I don't want to do this, and then there it
goes right right.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, So it's it's not the first time I've heard
that story, not about that show, but about a million
other shows.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's very hard.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
It's very hard, and you just you just learned to
kind of laugh at it or expect it, and I
kind of encourage like celebrating each step, right, you know
what I mean? Like, of course, you know, if you
sell the script, you're gonna and they say they want
to make it, you don't go they're going to make it.
You go oh, so and so is now attached to
the project to go out have a drinker. Friends. Celebrate
(41:28):
those moments and not really expected to happen. You know,
if it happens, that's icing on the cake.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, celebrate the step is right because you've done something. Yeah,
you finish your draft, You've gotten approval of something that
I agree with that completely. I don't do it enough,
but I should do it more. All right, Well, now
it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Now it's time for listener.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Man as dear chain guest, what's not funny?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Wow? There's so many ways I answer that, because there's
a lot.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Of not like one.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Uh, I don't know if I should say that, but
I sometimes feel like actors who are good, strong actors,
and then they think they're funny, right, and try to
be funny. They may get laughs, but and then they
think they're funnier, right, and they're you know, six layers
in deep of not being funny but thinking they're funny.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
That can happen. It's I'm always ask myself, what's what's
not funny? Like? Is there something too? Are there subjects
or areas that are too sad to be funny? And
I think not. I think there are approaches that are
on make things sad and unhappy, and they are approaches
that make it funny. Anthony jessel Nick. There's no area
(42:49):
that Anthony jessel Nick approaches that's not funny. He finds
a way to make it funny. Whether it's molestation or death,
there cancer or anything. The Holocaust, He's made jokes about
them all and they're funny. So there's not there's not
a subject matter that's too sad or too horrible to
(43:10):
be funny. There are ways to do things that are
absolutely unfunny.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And in a context. I guess that's why the roasts.
It's like, this is a roast, so you have to
understand that we can make fun of your mom dying
of cancer. Right, That's this is the this is the
field which we're playing.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Do you find it interesting that some people are super
offended or at least shocked that that's still on the table.
I mean, I thought it's strange that people were upset
about the Tom Brady roast because it's like, well, those jokes,
I said, well, those are roast jokes. That's what people
are signing up for, right, But people were saying no, well,
that's too far and it's not right.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I think people didn't understand the roast idea because people don't.
I just there's some people still don't understand what roasts
are or don't.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Approve like that. Maybe they understand, but they say, well
they shouldn't be there still still should be those things
should be off limits.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I know, I know, but it's like it's a baseball game,
but why are you using a baseball I mean, it
doesn't I'm not sure you know. That's the whole point
of gross ye be shocking and hopefully funny, you.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Know for me, Like gut Field is not funny. Don't
know if you've seen that showing Fox. Yes, Okay, So
like they don't they say things as if they're saying
something funny, right, and then the punchline is wokeness or
something like that, And it's like, and I'm I'm very
happy with conservative liberal. I don't care if the joke structured.
(44:36):
The joke's great, but they don't have a structure. They
just have a catchphrase.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Their comedy adjacent Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
And that's very frustrating to me. All Right, So now
it's time for a moment of joy, A moment of joy,
a moment of joy?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Is she in town? Oh you're still back?
Speaker 3 (45:00):
You still got it?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You gotta see the musicality of that.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Come on, So this is where you tell me, yes,
something that brings you joy. And it cannot be hello,
work lookout, can't be family, hello, something else like I
would say that anyway.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Come on, for Christ's sakes, I will say this, yes,
community community, but especially for me more selfishly, like the
comedy community, comedy friends. It's been part of my life
since you know, I was a teenager in the improv
of New York. So you meet these like minds, right,
(45:36):
and it's a safe zone, right, And it's a fun
zone and it's playful and you get to be a
kid in the way, like for as long as you're
we you can say anything and do anything and be idiots.
And it's something I just generated my whole career. That
(45:57):
the lunch for twenty five years, comedy writers, comedy friends, comedians.
You know, I had this Tuesday night drink night with
comics and comedy friends that went on for fifteen years
until COVID and it still continues on zoom. So and
I would have parties at my house by the way.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Thank you for not inviting me to any of these things.
I really appreciate it a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Jay is my unrequited friend.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
No, I can't, but I've always liked you. I feel
like we're part of the talk about that comedy, right group.
We're in that comedy group together.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yes, so, And you've been to parties at my house
in when I was sharing a house with Billiam. We
had that house in Larchmont, and I brought these factions
of people together, like the sitcom actors, the comedy writers,
the standards from New York, and people created relationships. And
it's how I met my wife through community. Because this
(46:59):
doesn't happen anymore. This is what's changed. Is there used
to be a shoot night in sitcoms, right, and then
all the actors, writers, everybody would meet at one or
two bars, and then everybody got to know each other
and everybody ended up working together. And you know, it's
it's where I met my wife, you know, it's you know,
(47:19):
you get jobs that way, you know. And that's probably
even another reason I'm moving because there we don't have
that anymore.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Not as much. Yeah, it's it's few and far between,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Well Mike ro thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
This is swell. I had a blast.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Thank you for moving to Los Angeles whatever forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
A good job, thank you, good job.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Good decision. You make a lot of good decisions. Well
we'll see what happens, all right, but thanks for being here,
and thank you for being here the audience. I don't
belong with Jake Cogan. You are much appreciated. Please spend
time with somebody who want to spend time with in person.
It's good to have a conversation, very helpful, and if
you get the chance, you drop me a line at
(48:05):
dbawjk at gmail dot com and you can tell me
what you hate about me in my life and the show,
or you can tell me what you like and you
can suggest a listener mail question. But I like to
have a conversation, so that would be nice. So keep
a conversation going between us and have a great day
and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Don't be alone with jj Coga
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