March 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Are you compromising your company's culture by hiring brilliant jerks?
In this episode of Don't Do That, host Kelly Waltrich is joined by Ainslie Simmonds from BNY to discuss the importance of hiring for culture, avoiding toxic influences, and the power of loving the problem rather than the answer.
Ainslie shares her journey from the fintech world to starting a fintech within BNY Mellon, outlining her insights on innovation, advisor productivity, and cultural transformation. She emphasizes the key to success is surrounding yourself with the right people and avoiding those who may be talented yet damaging to team dynamics.
Kelly and Ainslie discuss:
00:01 Ainslie Simmonds' passion for advisor productivity
00:51 Introduction to the episode and Kelly's no-nonsense approach
1:42 Ainslie's journey and the challenge of building tech at BNY
3:39 Unpacking the "swivel chair" problem for advisors
4:12 The conversation that prompted Ainslie to tackle big fintech challenges
4:52 The birth of Wove, an innovative wealth platform
7:11 The culture shift within BNY and its impact on wealth management
11:12 Facing industry giants in fintech
12:26 The philosophy of "love the problem, not the answer"
17:17 Ainslie's personal 'Don't Do That'—Avoid brilliant jerks
18:48 Techniques for identifying toxic hires
20:28 Kelly and Ainslie's tips for aligning team dynamics and culture
29:02 The significance of culture in startups and transformation
Connect with Kelly Waltrich:
Connect with Ainslie Simmonds:
About Our Guest:
Ainslie Simmonds is a Managing Director and member of the Executive Committee for BNY Pershing. As Head of Global Strategy, Ainslie is responsible for strategy formulation and articulation, market and competitive analysis, business intelligence, corporate development and strategic partnerships. She is also President of BNY Pershing X, a business unit that designs and builds innovative digital solutions for BNY Pershing’s Wealth Solutions clients, including broker dealers, registered investment advisors (RIAs) and trust companies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ainslie Simmonds (00:01):
I love the problem of advisor productivity.
I'm actually strangely obsessedby it, because I'm slightly
obsessed by productivity in myown life, and I love the idea of
advisors having 3040, 50% moretime to spend with clients,
(00:23):
because I love the idea of morepeople having access to advice.
So that problem is a neverending pursuit of interesting,
great ideas. So yeah, am Ithinking 10 years from now?
(00:43):
Absolutely, because the problemis never done.
Kelly Waltrich (00:51):
Welcome to the don't do that podcast. I'm Kelly
Waltrich, CEO and Co-Founder ofIntention.ly, and like me, this
show is no fluff and no BS, justsmart advice to help you learn
from the best and level upfaster. So what are we not doing
today? Let's find out.
Hi everyone, and welcome to thisweek's edition of The Don't Do
(01:13):
That Podcast. I am your host,Kelly Waltrich, and I am very
excited for my guest today,Ainsley Simmonds from BNY. If
you don't know her, she istaking on a major, major
challenge in bringing newtechnology to the RIA space and
trying to take on some of thebiggest technology companies in
(01:35):
the space and their way ofthinking, and it has been my
pleasure to watch it unfold overthe last couple of years. So
thank you for joining us.
Ainsley, thanks for having me.
Yeah. So tell us about tell usabout you and your role and what
you're what you're bringing tomarket. Yeah. So
Ainslie Simmonds (01:50):
I have a background in FinTech. I've been
at a couple different startups,and I joined BNY about three and
a half years ago to start aFinTech in the bank, which
everyone thought was crazy, andso we called it Pershing x,
because it sort of was adjacentto Pershing and adjacent to B
(02:13):
and y, so it sits in that sortof middle space, and we didn't
know what it was yet, so we justkind of called it that, kind of
like Google X didn't know whatit was yet, and we got to work,
started researching, trying tofigure out what the white space
was in the market, what theunmet need was, meeting with
clients, figuring it out, reallylistening, doing research, all
(02:34):
that good stuff. And after abunch of time doing that, we
figured out what the problem wasthat we wanted to solve, and
that problem was the swivelchair problem, where advisors
have been sort of collectingpieces of technology that don't
connect, making it really hardfor them to work across
(02:55):
applications to get the job donethat they need to get done for
clients. And where it reallyshows up is it shows up as a
productivity problem where theydon't spend enough time with
clients. They spend about 65% oftheir time behind the desk, as
opposed to actually meeting withclients. So we decided that was
our problem to solve, and webuilt a prototype, took it out
(03:19):
to market, got a bunch offeedback and then started coding
about a year and a half in welaunched the product at our
insight conference. It is calledwove.
The name should explain what itdoes. It connects all those
applications in what we call ouroperating system. So wove is a
(03:42):
wealth as a service platform. Ithas all the applications and an
operating system which is a datalayer and workflow that connects
them all. So that's what I'vebeen doing. Awesome.
Kelly Waltrich (03:53):
Okay, so I never got to ask you this before, and
I'm excited to do it on thispodcast. Tell me, what does the
conversation look like, to getyou to undertake something like
that, like, did they come to youand say, Hey, we, we, we want to
solve a problem. We want tobuild a tech did you go to them?
Like, how does that even happen?
Yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (04:12):
so I was, I was, I was busy doing other
stuff, right? And I got a phonecall from a recruiter, and they
were like, there's a really bigcompany that wants to do
something really innovative inthe well space, and we're not
going to tell you who it is,awesome, cool. And I'm thinking
to myself, like, Who is it? Sothey actually asked me the
(04:35):
recruiter. So this is, I had noidea who the company was. They
actually asked me to write awhite paper, like a couple page
white paper, of if you were tobuild something super innovative
in the wealth tech space, whatwould you do? So I was like, oh,
that's just kind of a funassignment, right? So I just, I
just kind of wrote what Ithought I would do, because I've
(04:56):
been in and around this spacefor a little while. As I said,
I've been in.
A couple fin techs. And so Ijust thought, well, that would
be fun. So I wrote a, wrote a, Iwrote a white paper, sort of
shoved it across the desk tothis recruiter, and I was like,
Well, that was that. That wasfun. That was the Sunday
morning, and I didn't thinkanything else of it. And then I
got a call a couple weeks later,and they said, so we'd like to
(05:20):
now have you come in and like,have you meet a bunch of people,
which I did, found out who thecompany was, of course, right?
And I really got to meetbasically all the senior
executives at BNY, including ournow CEO, Robin Vince, who had
built the business case for thisinvestment in this wealth tech
(05:41):
platform. And I was blown away.
I was blown away by the visionof these folks, by the
commitment, by the foresight todo this as a FinTech within the
bank, and sort of wall it off,to give it room to breathe, you
know, and with the level ofsupport they're willing to give
it, and what I call patientcapital, right? If you're
venture backed, which I've beenmany times, there is a
(06:03):
freneticism and a pace that youhave to run at, and you have to
make decisions in a way that Ithink is in some ways healthy,
but in some ways is reallytough, right? You know, what
we've been able to do, which isreally different, is really make
a lot of really hardinfrastructure decisions,
because our capital is very,very patient, like building this
(06:26):
OS No joke, no joke. Oh my gosh.
600 people building wove out ofthe gate. That is an investment
that, like you got to be prettycertain about right, right,
willing to play the long takeon, yep. And so I just saw that
level of commitment, and Ithought to myself, God, this is
(06:49):
a once in a lifetimer to buildsomething at scale that can
truly change the industry andchange millions of people's
lives. Because at the end of theday, if you make advisors more
productive. Our mission, what wesay our mission is, is to help
advisors help more people.
There's only 300,000 advisors inthe United States. That number
hasn't changed for a decade,right? More
(07:13):
if we can't help advisors getmore productive, we can't help
more Americans with their money.
So it's math, right? It's mathat some level. So we got really
excited about that mission andthat scale needs that kind of
patient capital. So all thestars aligned for me, awesome
(07:34):
kind of a story. So
Kelly Waltrich (07:38):
I was at E money advisor when we got bought by
fidelity, and on the surface, iThere were so many things I
disliked about it, right?
Because we were part of thisfast paced technology company,
and their fidelity, right?
They're huge, they'rethoughtful, where we were
breaking things, they're, youknow, just totally different,
(08:00):
right? But I saw the cool thingthat I got to see through that
transaction was the way that thetechnology business changed them
in really exciting ways, andthey were super willing to do
that. Like Abby Johnson waslike, Yes, I'm gonna take this
opportunity to change like, doyou see amazingly positive
(08:23):
things from this? Like,happening all across the bank? I
imagine that's like, so cool towatch.
Ainslie Simmonds (08:28):
Yeah. I mean, it, it's, it's happening, but
it's also happening becausebeing wise, going through a
broad transformation and wovewas sort of the first step in, I
think, a master plan that Robinactually had to turn the whole
firm into a, what he describesas a platform company. So we
(08:52):
have many businesses at BNY.
We're number one in many ofthose businesses, and we had
been operating as kind ofindependent lines of business.
And when he got here as CEO, hesaid, if we can de silo and
create actual platforms thatserve as segments, right as
opposed to these weird kind oflines of business, then our
(09:13):
opportunity is so much bigger.
So I actually now am taking onwhat we call the wealth segment.
So I'm taking on anything thattouches the wealth segment. And
the platform that I'm nowresponsible, which wove is going
to be the kind of front facetechnology on is anything that
(09:35):
touches the wealth segment. Sobanking, lending, custody, our
advisory platform. Are anyanything that touches the wealth
segments. So now we're bringingall these capabilities from all
around BNY, which has alwaysbeen the the opportunity, right?
There's stuff, there's stuff inthis place that is so incredibly
powerful, right? Um, our moneymovement platform, you know,
(09:58):
it's, it's crazy. This stuff wehave here, and this new platform
operating model that we'retalking about publicly now is
very clearly talked about in ourearnings calls. So I feel like
very open to talk about it hereis just unlocking all this value
for our clients. And our clientsare saying, Wow, this is a
totally different BNY and soit's a totally different BNY
(10:22):
Pershing, right? Love it beforePershing was sort of like this,
this thing that was kind ofbought by the bank and sort of
left alone a little bit, and nowwe're like, boom, all this stuff
that BNY can offer is comingthrough, because I'm the segment
owner now of the wealth segment.
So yes, the ability to pull itthrough is happening, but it's
(10:46):
also happening because it'shappening in every single place
at the firm, and it's so fun tobe part of a firm that is just
doing this at scale. 50,000people are changing from this
old way to this new way. Andit's like, awesome blossom. You
know? It's great. I feel
Kelly Waltrich (11:05):
like you have to have a you have to have a
certain personality be able tobuckle up for that kind of oh
Ainslie Simmonds (11:10):
yeah transformation, yeah. And I'm
telling you, there's definitelysome people that are like, bye,
not for me, but the people thatare here are so lit up by it.
It's really cool.
Kelly Waltrich (11:20):
That's awesome.
Okay, so my last question beforewe get into your don't do that.
You decided to take on thebiggest names in our business,
in FinTech, like the mostembedded FinTech firms like,
This is no joke, and I'm notsugar coating that it is what it
is. And so I'm taking my showerthis morning. I'm thinking about
this call, and I'm thinking,Okay, one, you have to be a
little bit crazy, which I likeabout you. And two, I imagine
(11:42):
that as you're embarking on thisjourney, you're not thinking,
how do we take them on today?
But you're thinking like, Okay,if this platform build is going
to take us a couple years, bythe time we hit that couple
years, we better be well aheadof them, right? So like, how do
you even bring How do you eventhink through that? It's, it's
(12:04):
like, mind boggling to me. Yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (12:06):
so someone really wise in my startup days
gave me the best piece of advicein my life. So I'm going to
share it here, because you know,if you're embarking on the
crazy, yes, which you just saidI did, so I'll just take it.
They said, Love the problem.
Yes, don't love the answer. Youdon't come at this with an idea.
(12:29):
Don't think I have the answer.
So was my white paper the rightanswer. I have no idea what I
Kelly Waltrich (12:38):
want to read that, by the way, oh yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (12:42):
I have shared it with a few people, not, not
sure. I'd have to go back andcleanse it and make sure it's
good enough for the likes ofyou, because you're pretty dang
smart. But love the problem. Ilove the problem of advisor
productivity. I'm actuallystrangely obsessed by it, yeah,
because I'm slightly obsessed byproductivity in my own life,
(13:03):
right? And I love the idea ofadvisors having 3040, 50% more
time to spend with clients,because I love the idea of more
people having access to advice,yep. So that problem is a never
ending pursuit of interesting,great ideas. So yeah, am I
(13:32):
thinking 10 years from now?
Absolutely, because the problemis never done, right? I would
love for another 100, 200,000advisors to come into the
industry. I would love ourindustry to crack that, but we
haven't, right. So, and you knowwhat? I don't know how to do
that, right? I don't know how toattract 200,000 new
(13:53):
professionals into the industry.
I actually, I have no brilliantideas there, but I got a lot,
and my team has a lot ofbrilliant ideas on how to take
stupid work out of the system.
Yes, you bring AI into and it'sjust like, like, there's a
million billion ideas of how toget the stupid stuff that
(14:16):
advisors have to do and theirstaff has to do, because we're
also talking middle back office,right, that their staff has to
do. And it is like, we wake upevery day and everyone's like,
what about this, and what aboutthis, and what about this, and
what about this? What aboutthis? And because we built on
this foundation of connectivity,we built on a foundation of
(14:36):
single data layer, singleworkflow, it unlocks this
ability to do these crazy goodthings. So, yeah, am I crazy,
Kelly Waltrich (14:47):
yes, but I meant that in the most loving way, you
know, yeah, but you gotta lovethe problem,
Ainslie Simmonds (14:51):
right?
Because, you know, I just wokeup. We all did to SAT Tina della
saying that SAS is dead.
Software is dead. Unreal. Yeah.
And I was like, Oh, wait, I justspent the last three mile years
of my life building a SaaSplatform cool, and it's dead
cool. But then I'm like, Youknow what? I love the problem.
And he's right, it is kind ofdead, yeah, and we got to jump
(15:12):
into the future. And if I lovethe productivity problem, which
I do, yeah, then I don't carehow it gets solved. So I love,
yeah, you really gotta like andso that was the best piece of
advice someone gave me. And soyou're always willing to pivot.
If you love the problem, you'renever stuck in a singular idea.
(15:32):
And so you just keep pace. Yeah,
Kelly Waltrich (15:38):
I can so appreciate that. I I've been
thinking a lot about marketing,and marketing is so ripe to be
disruptive with all this AIstuff. I am not naive to that.
I'm also not one to be left inthe dust. So I've been thinking
morning, noon and night, like,how do I make sure that every
single one of these thingsthat's being given, all these
wild tools that are being givento us, are being used by our
(15:59):
team to help the firms that wehelp get, get and stay ahead. So
I, I kind of love that framingAinsley. I feel like I'm gonna
use the
Ainslie Simmonds (16:08):
problem, man, and it also really makes you
articulate, yeah, the problemyou're here to solve.
Kelly Waltrich (16:15):
Yes, love it.
Unknown (16:22):
You okay.
Kelly Waltrich (16:27):
So you know, the premise of this show is, don't
do that. I love the idea, and Ithrive on the idea that we learn
more from our failures, so whynot learn from each other's
mistakes and sort of get a headstart? So what are we not doing
today? Yeah, so
Ainslie Simmonds (16:43):
I'm as as we always joke on my team. I'm no
spring chicken. So I've been atthis a long time, and I've come
to learn that talent iseverything. Truly the people you
surround yourself you you and Ivibe on this man, talent is
everything. The people yousurround yourself with is
everything. So you know what?
I'm not doing. I'm never doingagain. Never doing it, because
(17:06):
I've done it way too many times,and every time I do it, I go,
Ainsley, stop. I'm never hiringa brilliant jerk.
Kelly Waltrich (17:17):
Love that, and I totally did not see that coming.
As you don't do that, but I loveit.
Ainslie Simmonds (17:21):
I am never hiring. They're so shiny,
they're so smart, they're like,great. They look great, they
sound great. They they they'vedone great things. You're like,
they're sparkly, they're great,yes, and they're jerks, oh,
Kelly Waltrich (17:41):
and they are poison.
Ainslie Simmonds (17:43):
They're poison. They do terrible things.
They they back stab people. Theydon't team. They, they, they
say. They don't see it in themeeting. They see it outside the
meeting. They don't tell thetruth. They, they, they're just
jerks, man, they kill you. Theykill your teen. They kill the
(18:04):
vibe. They they they say badthings to clients like I never
and when I do, because sometimesthey slip in because they're so
sparkly, yeah, I have to say tomyself, easily, for God's love,
(18:25):
you get them out. Stop and stopit. And why do I keep making the
same ding mistake? I don't know,but I'm please God, can I not do
that? Can
Kelly Waltrich (18:38):
I not do that?
Oh, my God, that is too good.
Okay, so how are we sniffingthese people out? Tell me, what
are we doing? Because it'stricky. Yes,
Ainslie Simmonds (18:46):
it is. It's super tricky. Why do I keep
making the same mistake? Right?
Um, I have come to love thepanel interview. I've come to
love the coffee, lunch ordinner. Yep, right where you can
sort of observe the humanbehavior. I've come to love a
little bit of the informalreference,
Kelly Waltrich (19:13):
yes, where you're like,
Ainslie Simmonds (19:15):
hi. I want to talk about their work, but I
kind of also want to talk abouthow they were to others and
their team, I did a one of thoseon someone that I kind of had a
little bit of spidey sense camehighly referred, said all the
right things. Spidey sense and Ihad a good enough relationship
(19:38):
with the person, someone I knewwhere the person was coming
from, and I said, like,literally, give it to me
straight. Is this a brilliantjerk? And the person was like,
Yes. And I was like, Thank you,because you just saved me one
and you just, you gotta use allthe. Tools in the toolkit.
(20:01):
Because listen, some placethey're a good fit, right?
There's somewhere they're a goodfit. There's cultures and places
where that might be okay, thatcould be cool, somewhere else, I
just can't do it. I can't do it.
It's not good for my team. It'snot good for my culture. It's
not good for me personally. It'snot good for what we're trying
(20:22):
to do. And so I don't do that.
I'm gonna don't do that.
Kelly Waltrich (20:28):
I love that, so I do the panel interview with my
team. So I'm totally on boardwith that. And when people get
to me, I'm the culture, andpeople are surprised by that, I
think they get to me and they'relike, she's gonna ask me hard
questions. And I don't. I trustmy team to do that, and I ask
them things like, tell me aboutyour family, and what do you
what are your hobbies? And like,what would your friends say
(20:49):
about you? And people are like,appalled. I think they look at
me and they're like, this is theinterview she's giving me. And
I'm thinking to myself, youwouldn't have made it here if my
team thought you were an idiot.
Like, they're not gonna do thatto me. I
Ainslie Simmonds (21:00):
always ask, what mistake are you most proud
of? Oh, that's if they can'tanswer that question, if they're
not proud of mistakes they'vemade. That's the whole premise
of this show. I know I'm like,what mistake are you most proud
of? What are you so glad? Whatare you so glad that you grew up
and they look at me like thebrilliant jerks look at me like,
What do you see? I screw up. I'mperfect.
Kelly Waltrich (21:26):
Yes, I love when they like, do that spin thing
that you learn when you're like,in high school, where it's like,
yeah, if they Oh, my heart
Ainslie Simmonds (21:32):
weakness is actually my greatest strength.
Yes, oh,
Unknown (21:36):
no. Thank you. No.
Thank you.
Know, oh, my God, you Yeah. So
Kelly Waltrich (21:43):
it's so you think about what a brilliant
jerk does your business, andyou're so right. And it is, it
is so hard to recover from,especially in key roles you lose
sometimes months and months andmonths and months, because you
Ainslie Simmonds (21:55):
don't know how nefarious they are, because
they're brilliant. Yes, they sayall the smart things, and you're
like, God, you're smart. Yes,because I do love brilliance.
Yes, brilliance, Yes, yep. Amento brilliance. It's the jerky
bit. You're like, yeah, sothat's my thing. Thing. Don't do
(22:18):
that. Don't do that. Don't hirethem, don't keep them, don't
don't let them in, and when youdo, when they sneak in, get them
out
Kelly Waltrich (22:26):
quick. Get them out quick. Oh my gosh. Okay, I
love that. I think that that'sbrilliant advice. Okay, so for
all our listeners out there,what we are not doing is we're
not hiring brilliant jerks. Thatis amazing. We can all take a
lesson from that. So Ainsley,give us, like your your best
advice for how firms can look atthe people that they have and
(22:50):
and see like, what, what is thelandscape? Who are these people?
Who do you need to move out? Whodo you need to move on from? Who
do you need to make sure is notpoisoning your culture? Because
sometimes, like we said, it'slike so hard to it's so hard to
do it. And how do you tellyourself, well, that person is
doing great work, but
Ainslie Simmonds (23:09):
it's not worth it. Not worth it. Yeah. I mean,
you know, it's tricky, as yousaid. So, so you got to take all
this with a little bit of grainof salt, because not every tool
works for every use case, right,right? But I always am very
cautious with people that justwon't say it in a meeting,
(23:30):
right? Where they'll come up toyou afterwards and they're like,
I need to tell you that thatwhole conversation, I have a
totally different point of view,and you're like,
Unknown (23:45):
why didn't you just say it? Because we had this whole
meeting
Ainslie Simmonds (23:51):
where you couldn't just said the thing
that you just said to me in themeeting, where we could have
actually had the conversationother people could have
contributed. Debated. Like, whydid you feel the need to peel,
you know, herd me off, yeah, andtalk about it privately with me.
(24:13):
Because it like, I canappreciate if that's like, a,
you know, a personal issue, orsomething like that. But like,
when it's work, like, just saythe thing. Say the thing. Yeah.
So
Kelly Waltrich (24:24):
that's a tell for me. Gosh, you're giving me
like a moment here. Another tell
Ainslie Simmonds (24:29):
for me is, if people are like, you know, I
always like to call it a knowerover a learner. If someone's
like, Oh, I know this, and I'mlike, do you because I don't
know anything, I'm pretty surethat I don't know anything, and
the more I think I know, themore I know I don't know. So I'm
(24:50):
very curious how you think youknow everything. So that's
another tell. If everyone'slike, I know how this works. I'm
like, do you. Because I'm prettysure that the world is changing
so fast these days. We all knowthat if you thought you knew how
it worked, like, let's just takelet's just take the internet.
(25:13):
Yeah, yep, we all live on theinternet. Every day our kids
teach us how the internet works.
No joke, my kids
Unknown (25:25):
five, I'm like, what
Ainslie Simmonds (25:30):
I know how the internet works, right? I have no
idea how the internet works. Icalled my daughter, who's 18,
last night because I was like, Iwant to do this, like, super
complicated Task Rabbit thingfor my other daughter's
birthday. And, like, I went onthe Task Rabbit website, and
it's changed so much, I'm kindof confused. So can you teach
(25:50):
me? And she's like, Mom, I gotyou, I got you, I got you. I was
like, great, because I am smartenough to know that I don't know
how the internet works anymore,you know. And so I don't know
people who think they know alsoa little a bit of a tell, you
(26:11):
know. And there is expertisegranted. I know people are
smarter than me in lots oftopics, but like people who feel
like they know everything,everything. Yeah, I'm sort of
like, You're creeping me out alittle bit. I
Kelly Waltrich (26:26):
and we, we do live in an industry with quite a
ego problem. I think
Ainslie Simmonds (26:35):
to Betsy, it's really, it's really appalling
Kelly Waltrich (26:39):
on a day to day basis. I just think to myself,
like, how did I land here?
Ainslie Simmonds (26:44):
I don't know where you're getting your
confidence there, but yeah, so Idon't know. That's another tell
for me. If people are like, Iknow this, and I'm like, I don't
know anything, so I don't knowhow you know. But Okay, so
that's another tell. You know,there's, there's a few others,
the arm cross in the meeting.
That one kills me. I'm like,where do you think you can sit
(27:09):
back in a chair with your armscrossed in a discussion where
we're talking about the future?
I don't get it like weird. So,
Kelly Waltrich (27:23):
you know, there's tells You're so right.
Oh my gosh. I hope you're alllistening intently and thinking
about how you're acting inmeetings and with your peers.
Right now, we all need tosometimes do like, a self
assessment, right when we hearthese things. Oh, but we are not
hiring brilliant jerks, hiring
Ainslie Simmonds (27:40):
brilliant jerks. I mean, unless you're in
a company or a business wherethat's a good idea
Kelly Waltrich (27:49):
locked away somewhere,
Ainslie Simmonds (27:50):
I'm not here to say my things, everybody's
thing, like, but you asked me,no, I what my thing is. That's
my thing. So I love it. I
Kelly Waltrich (28:00):
love it. I think that's great, and I think that's
great. A great reminder toeveryone here in terms of how to
think about the recruitingprocess, the hiring process is
so hard. I think about I'm thesame as you like. I've hired
more marketers in my career thanI can even count, and I my team
was like, Hey, how about youjust be the culture person who
(28:23):
picked the people. I'm like,Okay, I hear you. I hear Yeah,
like, I've made, I've made myfair share of
Ainslie Simmonds (28:28):
but the culture thing, it's a thing.
Like someone asked, you know, Iget asked all the time, how did
you pull off a startup in thebank? How did you bring the
velocity of a startup in a bank.
How did you do that? You startedfrom scratch. How did you do it?
How did you you know, becausetwo thirds of my hires were from
in the bank, and about a thirdwere from the outside. So how
(28:48):
did you create this velocity?
Because we have the velocity ofa startup. How did you create
the velocity of a startup in thebank? And it's culture, yeah,
that's what it is. Yeah, is allthe mechanics we're here. It's
culture. And so that culturegets defined on a daily basis.
(29:11):
It's what gets rewarded, it'swhat gets said, it's what gets
ignored. Frankly, it's what getsslightly tapped down, you know?
And so it's the stories youtell, yeah, it's, you know, it's
all those things. And so it'sreally important to think about
(29:32):
culture. It's okay that you'rethe culture person, because
culture drives velocity, right?
Kelly Waltrich (29:38):
Yeah. And I just think, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna
leave everybody with this, like,starting intentionally. For me
was an insane I don't know if Iever told you this, but it was
like, I want to work with thepeople that I like. Like we work
hard. I love work. It's myhobby, too. And if I'm going to
do that, then I want to besurrounded by people that I like
and I admire and I trust. Us andlike all those things, it's like
(30:01):
Life is short, right? It's like,surround yourself with people
that inspire you. And it bogglesmy mind when I see the insides
of some businesses where I'mlike, man, you're gonna look
back 20 years from now and wishyou had that time back. Like, I
feel like we all have to askourselves that,
Ainslie Simmonds (30:17):
yeah, and when, when you get the place
that feels like home, yeah, justcall it that for all the right
reasons, right? It's it. It'smagic. It's so much better than
anything else. And if you cancreate that, build that thrive
in that no brilliant jerksallowed,
Kelly Waltrich (30:40):
no brilliant jerks allowed. I love it.
Ainslie Simmonds (30:42):
It's it's you.
The products better. It just is
Kelly Waltrich (30:46):
products better.
I love it. All right, guys,check your hiring processes.
Check your culture processes.
Don't hire any more brilliantjerks. And thank you. Ainsley, I
really loved our conversationtoday. All right, thanks, Kelly,
thanks so much for tuning in. Ifyou enjoyed today's show,
subscribe to be notified whennew episodes become available,
(31:06):
and please consider giving us afive star review on Apple or
Spotify. This podcast issponsored by intentionally, a
financial services growthengine, design consultancy and
agency. If you want to learnmore, please email me at Kelly
at grow intentionally.com. Thankyou again for listening and
check back to hear what we'renot doing next.
Unknown (31:28):
The information covered and posted represents the views
and opinions of the guest anddoes not necessarily represent
the views or opinions of KellyWaltrip. The content has been
made available for informationaland educational purposes only.
You.
I love the problem of advisor productivity.
I'm actually strangely obsessedby it, because I'm slightly
obsessed by productivity in myown life, and I love the idea of
advisors having 3040, 50% moretime to spend with clients,
(00:23):
because I love the idea of morepeople having access to advice.
So that problem is a neverending pursuit of interesting,
great ideas. So yeah, am Ithinking 10 years from now?
(00:43):
Absolutely, because the problemis never done.
Kelly Waltrich (00:51):
Welcome to the don't do that podcast. I'm Kelly
Waltrich, CEO and Co-Founder ofIntention.ly, and like me, this
show is no fluff and no BS, justsmart advice to help you learn
from the best and level upfaster. So what are we not doing
today? Let's find out.
Hi everyone, and welcome to thisweek's edition of The Don't Do
(01:13):
That Podcast. I am your host,Kelly Waltrich, and I am very
excited for my guest today,Ainsley Simmonds from BNY. If
you don't know her, she istaking on a major, major
challenge in bringing newtechnology to the RIA space and
trying to take on some of thebiggest technology companies in
(01:35):
the space and their way ofthinking, and it has been my
pleasure to watch it unfold overthe last couple of years. So
thank you for joining us.
Ainsley, thanks for having me.
Yeah. So tell us about tell usabout you and your role and what
you're what you're bringing tomarket. Yeah. So
Ainslie Simmonds (01:50):
I have a background in FinTech. I've been
at a couple different startups,and I joined BNY about three and
a half years ago to start aFinTech in the bank, which
everyone thought was crazy, andso we called it Pershing x,
because it sort of was adjacentto Pershing and adjacent to B
(02:13):
and y, so it sits in that sortof middle space, and we didn't
know what it was yet, so we justkind of called it that, kind of
like Google X didn't know whatit was yet, and we got to work,
started researching, trying tofigure out what the white space
was in the market, what theunmet need was, meeting with
clients, figuring it out, reallylistening, doing research, all
(02:34):
that good stuff. And after abunch of time doing that, we
figured out what the problem wasthat we wanted to solve, and
that problem was the swivelchair problem, where advisors
have been sort of collectingpieces of technology that don't
connect, making it really hardfor them to work across
(02:55):
applications to get the job donethat they need to get done for
clients. And where it reallyshows up is it shows up as a
productivity problem where theydon't spend enough time with
clients. They spend about 65% oftheir time behind the desk, as
opposed to actually meeting withclients. So we decided that was
our problem to solve, and webuilt a prototype, took it out
(03:19):
to market, got a bunch offeedback and then started coding
about a year and a half in welaunched the product at our
insight conference. It is calledwove.
The name should explain what itdoes. It connects all those
applications in what we call ouroperating system. So wove is a
(03:42):
wealth as a service platform. Ithas all the applications and an
operating system which is a datalayer and workflow that connects
them all. So that's what I'vebeen doing. Awesome.
Kelly Waltrich (03:53):
Okay, so I never got to ask you this before, and
I'm excited to do it on thispodcast. Tell me, what does the
conversation look like, to getyou to undertake something like
that, like, did they come to youand say, Hey, we, we, we want to
solve a problem. We want tobuild a tech did you go to them?
Like, how does that even happen?
Yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (04:12):
so I was, I was, I was busy doing other
stuff, right? And I got a phonecall from a recruiter, and they
were like, there's a really bigcompany that wants to do
something really innovative inthe well space, and we're not
going to tell you who it is,awesome, cool. And I'm thinking
to myself, like, Who is it? Sothey actually asked me the
(04:35):
recruiter. So this is, I had noidea who the company was. They
actually asked me to write awhite paper, like a couple page
white paper, of if you were tobuild something super innovative
in the wealth tech space, whatwould you do? So I was like, oh,
that's just kind of a funassignment, right? So I just, I
just kind of wrote what Ithought I would do, because I've
(04:56):
been in and around this spacefor a little while. As I said,
I've been in.
A couple fin techs. And so Ijust thought, well, that would
be fun. So I wrote a, wrote a, Iwrote a white paper, sort of
shoved it across the desk tothis recruiter, and I was like,
Well, that was that. That wasfun. That was the Sunday
morning, and I didn't thinkanything else of it. And then I
got a call a couple weeks later,and they said, so we'd like to
(05:20):
now have you come in and like,have you meet a bunch of people,
which I did, found out who thecompany was, of course, right?
And I really got to meetbasically all the senior
executives at BNY, including ournow CEO, Robin Vince, who had
built the business case for thisinvestment in this wealth tech
(05:41):
platform. And I was blown away.
I was blown away by the visionof these folks, by the
commitment, by the foresight todo this as a FinTech within the
bank, and sort of wall it off,to give it room to breathe, you
know, and with the level ofsupport they're willing to give
it, and what I call patientcapital, right? If you're
venture backed, which I've beenmany times, there is a
(06:03):
freneticism and a pace that youhave to run at, and you have to
make decisions in a way that Ithink is in some ways healthy,
but in some ways is reallytough, right? You know, what
we've been able to do, which isreally different, is really make
a lot of really hardinfrastructure decisions,
because our capital is very,very patient, like building this
(06:26):
OS No joke, no joke. Oh my gosh.
600 people building wove out ofthe gate. That is an investment
that, like you got to be prettycertain about right, right,
willing to play the long takeon, yep. And so I just saw that
level of commitment, and Ithought to myself, God, this is
(06:49):
a once in a lifetimer to buildsomething at scale that can
truly change the industry andchange millions of people's
lives. Because at the end of theday, if you make advisors more
productive. Our mission, what wesay our mission is, is to help
advisors help more people.
There's only 300,000 advisors inthe United States. That number
hasn't changed for a decade,right? More
(07:13):
if we can't help advisors getmore productive, we can't help
more Americans with their money.
So it's math, right? It's mathat some level. So we got really
excited about that mission andthat scale needs that kind of
patient capital. So all thestars aligned for me, awesome
(07:34):
kind of a story. So
Kelly Waltrich (07:38):
I was at E money advisor when we got bought by
fidelity, and on the surface, iThere were so many things I
disliked about it, right?
Because we were part of thisfast paced technology company,
and their fidelity, right?
They're huge, they'rethoughtful, where we were
breaking things, they're, youknow, just totally different,
(08:00):
right? But I saw the cool thingthat I got to see through that
transaction was the way that thetechnology business changed them
in really exciting ways, andthey were super willing to do
that. Like Abby Johnson waslike, Yes, I'm gonna take this
opportunity to change like, doyou see amazingly positive
(08:23):
things from this? Like,happening all across the bank? I
imagine that's like, so cool towatch.
Ainslie Simmonds (08:28):
Yeah. I mean, it, it's, it's happening, but
it's also happening becausebeing wise, going through a
broad transformation and wovewas sort of the first step in, I
think, a master plan that Robinactually had to turn the whole
firm into a, what he describesas a platform company. So we
(08:52):
have many businesses at BNY.
We're number one in many ofthose businesses, and we had
been operating as kind ofindependent lines of business.
And when he got here as CEO, hesaid, if we can de silo and
create actual platforms thatserve as segments, right as
opposed to these weird kind oflines of business, then our
(09:13):
opportunity is so much bigger.
So I actually now am taking onwhat we call the wealth segment.
So I'm taking on anything thattouches the wealth segment. And
the platform that I'm nowresponsible, which wove is going
to be the kind of front facetechnology on is anything that
(09:35):
touches the wealth segment. Sobanking, lending, custody, our
advisory platform. Are anyanything that touches the wealth
segments. So now we're bringingall these capabilities from all
around BNY, which has alwaysbeen the the opportunity, right?
There's stuff, there's stuff inthis place that is so incredibly
powerful, right? Um, our moneymovement platform, you know,
(09:58):
it's, it's crazy. This stuff wehave here, and this new platform
operating model that we'retalking about publicly now is
very clearly talked about in ourearnings calls. So I feel like
very open to talk about it hereis just unlocking all this value
for our clients. And our clientsare saying, Wow, this is a
totally different BNY and soit's a totally different BNY
(10:22):
Pershing, right? Love it beforePershing was sort of like this,
this thing that was kind ofbought by the bank and sort of
left alone a little bit, and nowwe're like, boom, all this stuff
that BNY can offer is comingthrough, because I'm the segment
owner now of the wealth segment.
So yes, the ability to pull itthrough is happening, but it's
(10:46):
also happening because it'shappening in every single place
at the firm, and it's so fun tobe part of a firm that is just
doing this at scale. 50,000people are changing from this
old way to this new way. Andit's like, awesome blossom. You
know? It's great. I feel
Kelly Waltrich (11:05):
like you have to have a you have to have a
certain personality be able tobuckle up for that kind of oh
Ainslie Simmonds (11:10):
yeah transformation, yeah. And I'm
telling you, there's definitelysome people that are like, bye,
not for me, but the people thatare here are so lit up by it.
It's really cool.
Kelly Waltrich (11:20):
That's awesome.
Okay, so my last question beforewe get into your don't do that.
You decided to take on thebiggest names in our business,
in FinTech, like the mostembedded FinTech firms like,
This is no joke, and I'm notsugar coating that it is what it
is. And so I'm taking my showerthis morning. I'm thinking about
this call, and I'm thinking,Okay, one, you have to be a
little bit crazy, which I likeabout you. And two, I imagine
(11:42):
that as you're embarking on thisjourney, you're not thinking,
how do we take them on today?
But you're thinking like, Okay,if this platform build is going
to take us a couple years, bythe time we hit that couple
years, we better be well aheadof them, right? So like, how do
you even bring How do you eventhink through that? It's, it's
(12:04):
like, mind boggling to me. Yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (12:06):
so someone really wise in my startup days
gave me the best piece of advicein my life. So I'm going to
share it here, because you know,if you're embarking on the
crazy, yes, which you just saidI did, so I'll just take it.
They said, Love the problem.
Yes, don't love the answer. Youdon't come at this with an idea.
(12:29):
Don't think I have the answer.
So was my white paper the rightanswer. I have no idea what I
Kelly Waltrich (12:38):
want to read that, by the way, oh yeah,
Ainslie Simmonds (12:42):
I have shared it with a few people, not, not
sure. I'd have to go back andcleanse it and make sure it's
good enough for the likes ofyou, because you're pretty dang
smart. But love the problem. Ilove the problem of advisor
productivity. I'm actuallystrangely obsessed by it, yeah,
because I'm slightly obsessed byproductivity in my own life,
(13:03):
right? And I love the idea ofadvisors having 3040, 50% more
time to spend with clients,because I love the idea of more
people having access to advice,yep. So that problem is a never
ending pursuit of interesting,great ideas. So yeah, am I
(13:32):
thinking 10 years from now?
Absolutely, because the problemis never done, right? I would
love for another 100, 200,000advisors to come into the
industry. I would love ourindustry to crack that, but we
haven't, right. So, and you knowwhat? I don't know how to do
that, right? I don't know how toattract 200,000 new
(13:53):
professionals into the industry.
I actually, I have no brilliantideas there, but I got a lot,
and my team has a lot ofbrilliant ideas on how to take
stupid work out of the system.
Yes, you bring AI into and it'sjust like, like, there's a
million billion ideas of how toget the stupid stuff that
(14:16):
advisors have to do and theirstaff has to do, because we're
also talking middle back office,right, that their staff has to
do. And it is like, we wake upevery day and everyone's like,
what about this, and what aboutthis, and what about this, and
what about this? What aboutthis? And because we built on
this foundation of connectivity,we built on a foundation of
(14:36):
single data layer, singleworkflow, it unlocks this
ability to do these crazy goodthings. So, yeah, am I crazy,
Kelly Waltrich (14:47):
yes, but I meant that in the most loving way, you
know, yeah, but you gotta lovethe problem,
Ainslie Simmonds (14:51):
right?
Because, you know, I just wokeup. We all did to SAT Tina della
saying that SAS is dead.
Software is dead. Unreal. Yeah.
And I was like, Oh, wait, I justspent the last three mile years
of my life building a SaaSplatform cool, and it's dead
cool. But then I'm like, Youknow what? I love the problem.
And he's right, it is kind ofdead, yeah, and we got to jump
(15:12):
into the future. And if I lovethe productivity problem, which
I do, yeah, then I don't carehow it gets solved. So I love,
yeah, you really gotta like andso that was the best piece of
advice someone gave me. And soyou're always willing to pivot.
If you love the problem, you'renever stuck in a singular idea.
(15:32):
And so you just keep pace. Yeah,
Kelly Waltrich (15:38):
I can so appreciate that. I I've been
thinking a lot about marketing,and marketing is so ripe to be
disruptive with all this AIstuff. I am not naive to that.
I'm also not one to be left inthe dust. So I've been thinking
morning, noon and night, like,how do I make sure that every
single one of these thingsthat's being given, all these
wild tools that are being givento us, are being used by our
(15:59):
team to help the firms that wehelp get, get and stay ahead. So
I, I kind of love that framingAinsley. I feel like I'm gonna
use the
Ainslie Simmonds (16:08):
problem, man, and it also really makes you
articulate, yeah, the problemyou're here to solve.
Kelly Waltrich (16:15):
Yes, love it.
Unknown (16:22):
You okay.
Kelly Waltrich (16:27):
So you know, the premise of this show is, don't
do that. I love the idea, and Ithrive on the idea that we learn
more from our failures, so whynot learn from each other's
mistakes and sort of get a headstart? So what are we not doing
today? Yeah, so
Ainslie Simmonds (16:43):
I'm as as we always joke on my team. I'm no
spring chicken. So I've been atthis a long time, and I've come
to learn that talent iseverything. Truly the people you
surround yourself you you and Ivibe on this man, talent is
everything. The people yousurround yourself with is
everything. So you know what?
I'm not doing. I'm never doingagain. Never doing it, because
(17:06):
I've done it way too many times,and every time I do it, I go,
Ainsley, stop. I'm never hiringa brilliant jerk.
Kelly Waltrich (17:17):
Love that, and I totally did not see that coming.
As you don't do that, but I loveit.
Ainslie Simmonds (17:21):
I am never hiring. They're so shiny,
they're so smart, they're like,great. They look great, they
sound great. They they they'vedone great things. You're like,
they're sparkly, they're great,yes, and they're jerks, oh,
Kelly Waltrich (17:41):
and they are poison.
Ainslie Simmonds (17:43):
They're poison. They do terrible things.
They they back stab people. Theydon't team. They, they, they
say. They don't see it in themeeting. They see it outside the
meeting. They don't tell thetruth. They, they, they're just
jerks, man, they kill you. Theykill your teen. They kill the
(18:04):
vibe. They they they say badthings to clients like I never
and when I do, because sometimesthey slip in because they're so
sparkly, yeah, I have to say tomyself, easily, for God's love,
(18:25):
you get them out. Stop and stopit. And why do I keep making the
same ding mistake? I don't know,but I'm please God, can I not do
that? Can
Kelly Waltrich (18:38):
I not do that?
Oh, my God, that is too good.
Okay, so how are we sniffingthese people out? Tell me, what
are we doing? Because it'stricky. Yes,
Ainslie Simmonds (18:46):
it is. It's super tricky. Why do I keep
making the same mistake? Right?
Um, I have come to love thepanel interview. I've come to
love the coffee, lunch ordinner. Yep, right where you can
sort of observe the humanbehavior. I've come to love a
little bit of the informalreference,
Kelly Waltrich (19:13):
yes, where you're like,
Ainslie Simmonds (19:15):
hi. I want to talk about their work, but I
kind of also want to talk abouthow they were to others and
their team, I did a one of thoseon someone that I kind of had a
little bit of spidey sense camehighly referred, said all the
right things. Spidey sense and Ihad a good enough relationship
(19:38):
with the person, someone I knewwhere the person was coming
from, and I said, like,literally, give it to me
straight. Is this a brilliantjerk? And the person was like,
Yes. And I was like, Thank you,because you just saved me one
and you just, you gotta use allthe. Tools in the toolkit.
(20:01):
Because listen, some placethey're a good fit, right?
There's somewhere they're a goodfit. There's cultures and places
where that might be okay, thatcould be cool, somewhere else, I
just can't do it. I can't do it.
It's not good for my team. It'snot good for my culture. It's
not good for me personally. It'snot good for what we're trying
(20:22):
to do. And so I don't do that.
I'm gonna don't do that.
Kelly Waltrich (20:28):
I love that, so I do the panel interview with my
team. So I'm totally on boardwith that. And when people get
to me, I'm the culture, andpeople are surprised by that, I
think they get to me and they'relike, she's gonna ask me hard
questions. And I don't. I trustmy team to do that, and I ask
them things like, tell me aboutyour family, and what do you
what are your hobbies? And like,what would your friends say
(20:49):
about you? And people are like,appalled. I think they look at
me and they're like, this is theinterview she's giving me. And
I'm thinking to myself, youwouldn't have made it here if my
team thought you were an idiot.
Like, they're not gonna do thatto me. I
Ainslie Simmonds (21:00):
always ask, what mistake are you most proud
of? Oh, that's if they can'tanswer that question, if they're
not proud of mistakes they'vemade. That's the whole premise
of this show. I know I'm like,what mistake are you most proud
of? What are you so glad? Whatare you so glad that you grew up
and they look at me like thebrilliant jerks look at me like,
What do you see? I screw up. I'mperfect.
Kelly Waltrich (21:26):
Yes, I love when they like, do that spin thing
that you learn when you're like,in high school, where it's like,
yeah, if they Oh, my heart
Ainslie Simmonds (21:32):
weakness is actually my greatest strength.
Yes, oh,
Unknown (21:36):
no. Thank you. No.
Thank you.
Know, oh, my God, you Yeah. So
Kelly Waltrich (21:43):
it's so you think about what a brilliant
jerk does your business, andyou're so right. And it is, it
is so hard to recover from,especially in key roles you lose
sometimes months and months andmonths and months, because you
Ainslie Simmonds (21:55):
don't know how nefarious they are, because
they're brilliant. Yes, they sayall the smart things, and you're
like, God, you're smart. Yes,because I do love brilliance.
Yes, brilliance, Yes, yep. Amento brilliance. It's the jerky
bit. You're like, yeah, sothat's my thing. Thing. Don't do
(22:18):
that. Don't do that. Don't hirethem, don't keep them, don't
don't let them in, and when youdo, when they sneak in, get them
out
Kelly Waltrich (22:26):
quick. Get them out quick. Oh my gosh. Okay, I
love that. I think that that'sbrilliant advice. Okay, so for
all our listeners out there,what we are not doing is we're
not hiring brilliant jerks. Thatis amazing. We can all take a
lesson from that. So Ainsley,give us, like your your best
advice for how firms can look atthe people that they have and
(22:50):
and see like, what, what is thelandscape? Who are these people?
Who do you need to move out? Whodo you need to move on from? Who
do you need to make sure is notpoisoning your culture? Because
sometimes, like we said, it'slike so hard to it's so hard to
do it. And how do you tellyourself, well, that person is
doing great work, but
Ainslie Simmonds (23:09):
it's not worth it. Not worth it. Yeah. I mean,
you know, it's tricky, as yousaid. So, so you got to take all
this with a little bit of grainof salt, because not every tool
works for every use case, right,right? But I always am very
cautious with people that justwon't say it in a meeting,
(23:30):
right? Where they'll come up toyou afterwards and they're like,
I need to tell you that thatwhole conversation, I have a
totally different point of view,and you're like,
Unknown (23:45):
why didn't you just say it? Because we had this whole
meeting
Ainslie Simmonds (23:51):
where you couldn't just said the thing
that you just said to me in themeeting, where we could have
actually had the conversationother people could have
contributed. Debated. Like, whydid you feel the need to peel,
you know, herd me off, yeah, andtalk about it privately with me.
(24:13):
Because it like, I canappreciate if that's like, a,
you know, a personal issue, orsomething like that. But like,
when it's work, like, just saythe thing. Say the thing. Yeah.
So
Kelly Waltrich (24:24):
that's a tell for me. Gosh, you're giving me
like a moment here. Another tell
Ainslie Simmonds (24:29):
for me is, if people are like, you know, I
always like to call it a knowerover a learner. If someone's
like, Oh, I know this, and I'mlike, do you because I don't
know anything, I'm pretty surethat I don't know anything, and
the more I think I know, themore I know I don't know. So I'm
(24:50):
very curious how you think youknow everything. So that's
another tell. If everyone'slike, I know how this works. I'm
like, do you. Because I'm prettysure that the world is changing
so fast these days. We all knowthat if you thought you knew how
it worked, like, let's just takelet's just take the internet.
(25:13):
Yeah, yep, we all live on theinternet. Every day our kids
teach us how the internet works.
No joke, my kids
Unknown (25:25):
five, I'm like, what
Ainslie Simmonds (25:30):
I know how the internet works, right? I have no
idea how the internet works. Icalled my daughter, who's 18,
last night because I was like, Iwant to do this, like, super
complicated Task Rabbit thingfor my other daughter's
birthday. And, like, I went onthe Task Rabbit website, and
it's changed so much, I'm kindof confused. So can you teach
(25:50):
me? And she's like, Mom, I gotyou, I got you, I got you. I was
like, great, because I am smartenough to know that I don't know
how the internet works anymore,you know. And so I don't know
people who think they know alsoa little a bit of a tell, you
(26:11):
know. And there is expertisegranted. I know people are
smarter than me in lots oftopics, but like people who feel
like they know everything,everything. Yeah, I'm sort of
like, You're creeping me out alittle bit. I
Kelly Waltrich (26:26):
and we, we do live in an industry with quite a
ego problem. I think
Ainslie Simmonds (26:35):
to Betsy, it's really, it's really appalling
Kelly Waltrich (26:39):
on a day to day basis. I just think to myself,
like, how did I land here?
Ainslie Simmonds (26:44):
I don't know where you're getting your
confidence there, but yeah, so Idon't know. That's another tell
for me. If people are like, Iknow this, and I'm like, I don't
know anything, so I don't knowhow you know. But Okay, so
that's another tell. You know,there's, there's a few others,
the arm cross in the meeting.
That one kills me. I'm like,where do you think you can sit
(27:09):
back in a chair with your armscrossed in a discussion where
we're talking about the future?
I don't get it like weird. So,
Kelly Waltrich (27:23):
you know, there's tells You're so right.
Oh my gosh. I hope you're alllistening intently and thinking
about how you're acting inmeetings and with your peers.
Right now, we all need tosometimes do like, a self
assessment, right when we hearthese things. Oh, but we are not
hiring brilliant jerks, hiring
Ainslie Simmonds (27:40):
brilliant jerks. I mean, unless you're in
a company or a business wherethat's a good idea
Kelly Waltrich (27:49):
locked away somewhere,
Ainslie Simmonds (27:50):
I'm not here to say my things, everybody's
thing, like, but you asked me,no, I what my thing is. That's
my thing. So I love it. I
Kelly Waltrich (28:00):
love it. I think that's great, and I think that's
great. A great reminder toeveryone here in terms of how to
think about the recruitingprocess, the hiring process is
so hard. I think about I'm thesame as you like. I've hired
more marketers in my career thanI can even count, and I my team
was like, Hey, how about youjust be the culture person who
(28:23):
picked the people. I'm like,Okay, I hear you. I hear Yeah,
like, I've made, I've made myfair share of
Ainslie Simmonds (28:28):
but the culture thing, it's a thing.
Like someone asked, you know, Iget asked all the time, how did
you pull off a startup in thebank? How did you bring the
velocity of a startup in a bank.
How did you do that? You startedfrom scratch. How did you do it?
How did you you know, becausetwo thirds of my hires were from
in the bank, and about a thirdwere from the outside. So how
(28:48):
did you create this velocity?
Because we have the velocity ofa startup. How did you create
the velocity of a startup in thebank? And it's culture, yeah,
that's what it is. Yeah, is allthe mechanics we're here. It's
culture. And so that culturegets defined on a daily basis.
(29:11):
It's what gets rewarded, it'swhat gets said, it's what gets
ignored. Frankly, it's what getsslightly tapped down, you know?
And so it's the stories youtell, yeah, it's, you know, it's
all those things. And so it'sreally important to think about
(29:32):
culture. It's okay that you'rethe culture person, because
culture drives velocity, right?
Kelly Waltrich (29:38):
Yeah. And I just think, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna
leave everybody with this, like,starting intentionally. For me
was an insane I don't know if Iever told you this, but it was
like, I want to work with thepeople that I like. Like we work
hard. I love work. It's myhobby, too. And if I'm going to
do that, then I want to besurrounded by people that I like
and I admire and I trust. Us andlike all those things, it's like
(30:01):
Life is short, right? It's like,surround yourself with people
that inspire you. And it bogglesmy mind when I see the insides
of some businesses where I'mlike, man, you're gonna look
back 20 years from now and wishyou had that time back. Like, I
feel like we all have to askourselves that,
Ainslie Simmonds (30:17):
yeah, and when, when you get the place
that feels like home, yeah, justcall it that for all the right
reasons, right? It's it. It'smagic. It's so much better than
anything else. And if you cancreate that, build that thrive
in that no brilliant jerksallowed,
Kelly Waltrich (30:40):
no brilliant jerks allowed. I love it.
Ainslie Simmonds (30:42):
It's it's you.
The products better. It just is
Kelly Waltrich (30:46):
products better.
I love it. All right, guys,check your hiring processes.
Check your culture processes.
Don't hire any more brilliantjerks. And thank you. Ainsley, I
really loved our conversationtoday. All right, thanks, Kelly,
thanks so much for tuning in. Ifyou enjoyed today's show,
subscribe to be notified whennew episodes become available,
(31:06):
and please consider giving us afive star review on Apple or
Spotify. This podcast issponsored by intentionally, a
financial services growthengine, design consultancy and
agency. If you want to learnmore, please email me at Kelly
at grow intentionally.com. Thankyou again for listening and
check back to hear what we'renot doing next.
Unknown (31:28):
The information covered and posted represents the views
and opinions of the guest anddoes not necessarily represent
the views or opinions of KellyWaltrip. The content has been
made available for informationaland educational purposes only.
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