August 12, 2025 • 48 mins
With only 14 foods she can eat safely, Jenna Gestetner could have built a life defined by restriction. Instead, she’s chosen to create one rich in joy, connection, and possibility. Living with MCAS, POTS, and multiple food allergies, she shares how she’s learned to honor her body’s needs without letting her diagnosis dictate her happiness. In this episode, Jenna shares how she navigates the mental health aspects of her medical needs, and why she focuses on what she can do rather than what’s off-limits. Her story is a bright reminder that thriving is possible and has little to do with how much is on the menu.
Find Jenna on all social media platforms @jennaxhealth
About me | Jenna x Health
Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com
Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
-welcome@dramandawhitehouse.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenna Gestetner (00:00):
What if it's a possibility that you don't have
(00:01):
to be afraid of things?
What if it's a possibility thatin a couple of years I could eat
every food?
What if it's a possibility that.
Even though I got sick a fewweeks ago and now my symptoms
are worse, that tomorrow I couldwake up and those symptoms could
be back to the way it wasbefore.
Like it's, it's not dismissingthe fact that that's my
experience and that it'sfrustrating and that part of my
brain wants to think in thenegative way of like, well now
(00:25):
this is my life.
Like part of me wants to thinkthat way.
And okay, that's fine, but likealso there's a possibility that
that's not the case.
Speaker (00:34):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:55):
Today we're continuing on thebirthday theme from the summer
and inviting Jenna Gestetner.
You guys know her on Instagramas Jenna X Health.
She just recently celebrated herbirthday, Jenna's on the show
here today to talk to us aboutliving with any kind of chronic
illness doesn't have to mean asmall life.
She lives with MCAS POTS andmultiple food allergies, leaving
(01:15):
her with just 14 foods on thetable that she can eat safely.
But what's remarkable is howshe's chosen to focus on what's
off the table.
In our conversation, Jennashares how she's learned to
honor her body's signs andneeds, build a full and rich
life beyond the limits of herdiet and protect her mental
health.
Along the way, we talk aboutcreating joy that isn't centered
(01:35):
on food, leaning into the thingsthat she can do, and how she has
cultivated a strong mindset andself-awareness to help her
thrive despite her chronic painand fatigue.
Whether you live with foodallergies, chronic illness, or
know someone who does This is aconversation that will lift you
up.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (01:52):
Jenna, thank you so much for joining me
here on the podcast.
I'm so excited you have such aunique story yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to talk with you.
I appreciate it so much.
I know it's, it probably getstiring to give the spiel, how do
you tell people about yourselfin this like food allergy,
medical kind of space
Jenna Gestetner (02:09):
I am 22, I'll be 23 soon.
Um, so I just graduated fromcollege and you know, I've
always been very passionateabout health and that's always
been something that's been hugein my life and contrary to what
a lot of people believe, becausebesides doing social media, I
also work in healthcare and mostpeople think I work in
healthcare because of my health.
But it was sort of the other wayaround.
(02:32):
Um.
You know, I, I've always lovedhealth, like I said, and I've
just always found it reallyinteresting to be able to work
in healthcare, to really helppeople.
I think that's always been my,my life's purpose and, you know,
I was working in healthcare andsimultaneously starting to have
these issues with my health and.
Really figuring out how tonavigate what was happening.
(02:54):
I was having so many differentrandom, complicated symptoms,
not knowing what was happening,and it was hard.
It felt very lonely.
It felt very confusing.
It didn't feel like I knew whatto do or where I was going or
what kind of answers there couldbe for me.
And I think working inhealthcare really did help me
give me the tools to navigatethat.
And so.
(03:16):
When I was about halfway throughcollege, uh, somebody as a joke
said I should post a videotalking about how I can only eat
nine foods.
It was nine foods at that point.
Now it's more than that.
But you know how it, to them, itwas interesting that there was
so many foods that I couldn'teat that, you know, it was
easier to list the ones I could.
And I was like, nobody everwould ever want to listen to
(03:37):
that.
And that was the first time Ireally challenged that belief
and I ended up.
Posting something about it andit went viral and within a
couple of weeks I had, or even acouple of days, I had 10,000
followers.
And that really just showed mehow many people are truly not
only one interested, curious,um, but also how many people can
(03:59):
actually relate.
I had never met somebody elsewith the same condition or even
a similar condition or a similarexperience in my everyday life.
And it was really valuable to.
Um, you know, be seen by so manypeople in that way.
Um, but the irony of it is, isthat they were finding the
content interesting because thecontent I was sharing was making
(04:20):
them feel so seen.
So, you know, it's that two-wayrelationship of like, we're both
doing that for each other.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (04:25):
Right.
That validation is so valuablefrom someone who knows and who
understands something similar topeople.
So that's amazing you didn't setout to be like a social media
star.
You just posted a little thingand it blew up.
Jenna Gestetner (04:36):
No, and I've always loved making content.
I'm a very creative person.
I would describe myself as acreative entrepreneur.
Like everything I do, I do somany different things.
Like I said, I work inhealthcare, I do marketing.
I have a marketing agency forhealthcare companies, and I also
create content on social media.
But really.
I, I loved creating content.
I loved being creative in thatway, and taking photos, taking
(05:01):
videos, and editing themtogether.
And so really the only new thingwas that I was sharing my life
publicly online, which if youwould've asked me five years
ago, if I would've been doingthat, I would've said,
absolutely not.
You're absolutely insane.
And now I couldn't imagine mylife any other way.
Wow.
So what was that first post?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (05:15):
Just listing the foods that you could
eat?
Jenna Gestetner (05:18):
No.
So there was like a.
A time period before that.
So what actually happened was Iwas in a class where we had to
make a video for our assignment.
It was a filmmaking class, andmy group decided to make a video
talking about the foods that Ican eat and why that was the
case.
And so that was what sparkedthat initial curiosity around
the topic.
And then know the idea aroundsharing my life online or
(05:40):
sharing these things online cameup.
And so two to three posts were.
Different thing.
You know, this is like abouthealth, what whatever it was
like, I was just gettingcomfortable with what you even
say when you bring out yourphone.
What do you even say when you'retalking to your phone to post
publicly to everybody in theworld?
Like, um, that and.
(06:02):
My first video that did sort ofwell was a more trending style,
a trend that was happening, uh,and I, my take on it was around
pots and how like I eat a lot ofsalt, like an outrageous amount
of salt.
And that was the first time Irealized that, that there is so
much value on social media ofother people having the same
(06:22):
experience as you and being ableto relate even when it is sort
of funny.
And I think I.
I like to be very lightheartedabout things and very positive
and just take a positive spin onthings.
But I also definitely do thinkthat humor is part of my coping
mechanism.
And so when that took off, Imade another video, describing
(06:44):
what I eat in a day as somebodywho can only eat nine foods.
And that was the one that reallytook off and really started,
this journey.
Yeah.
So
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (06:55):
before we dive into that, would you
mind telling everybody what didyou go to school for and what's
your, healthcare work?
Jenna Gestetner (07:01):
So I originally started working at a big
hospital system and I wasworking in their innovation
department.
So I was working with these newcompanies that were creating
solutions to help people in somany different ways.
Some of them were techsolutions, some of them were
surgical devices.
Some of them were like staffingplatforms.
So many different things.
But I had always been passionateabout healthcare, but.
(07:24):
Knew that I didn't want to be adoctor or a nurse or a
practicing clinician.
I didn't want to have that kindof interaction with patients.
And I honestly just disregardedthat passion in of healthcare
because I really thought thatwas the only option.
And so having that internship inhigh school was the first time
(07:45):
that I saw this whole other sideof healthcare.
And so.
From then I knew that was what Iwanted to do.
What I studied is my major wasarts technology and the business
of innovation, which is reallyjust a fancy way of saying
design and business, but Ireally focused on healthcare and
my senior capstone, they don'tcall it a capstone, but that's
(08:05):
basically what it is, was allabout basically, researching and
understanding and presenting on.
Why?
I truly believe that the thingthat could make the biggest
change in healthcare ismarketing.
I think marketing is a veryunderused tool in healthcare as
(08:27):
an industry, and I think it hasthe biggest potential to create
change because of how muchpeople value community and being
seen and being understood.
Just like I was talking aboutwhat I do with my content, I
think companies can do that too.
And I think sometimes they don'tthink they have the power to do
that, but they really can.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I focused on that in college andthat's also what I do with my
(08:50):
marketing agency.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (08:51):
I'm not on that end, obviously I'm in
mental health.
I don't know a lot aboutbusiness and marketing, but that
seems so true to me of everyhealth area.
All of the things that we'regonna talk about today, like
food allergies and, and POTS andall of these chronic medical
things that people deal with, Ithink have a marketing issue in
terms of getting people tounderstand new research that's
coming out and new practices andwhat can help them.
(09:11):
And would you agree,
Jenna Gestetner (09:13):
yeah, and I think this was something I found
a lot in my research as well,which I already had a inkling
that this was the case, but Ithink.
Especially in healthcarecompared to other industries,
marketing has been seen as sortof like an icky thing.
Like why are they trying to sellme on something that I, that's
like essential to my life or myhealth?
(09:33):
And I think there are twothings.
One, not every part ofhealthcare is essential.
There are a lot of choices thatwe make.
Even if it's essential for youto take a medication or do a
treatment, there might bemultiple options.
And I think it's company's jobsto present those options in a
way that's exciting andenjoyable for us and to educate
people.
And I don't think marketing hasto be all sales.
(09:56):
It's, it's education, it'scommunity, it's connection.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (10:02):
Yeah.
And validation, like you said,as part of that connection.
So is that what you're planningcareer wise?
Are you continuing on in thatroute?
Do you have a new job thatyou're starting now, that you've
graduated?
Jenna Gestetner (10:13):
I mean, I basically tell people that it's
not really that much different.
People have been asking me, howdoes it feel to, you know, be
graduated, when are you startingwork?
And I'm over here being like,I've been working full-time for
almost a year and a halfalready, so not really much is
changing besides having a properweekend because I now actually
have the time to take a weekendbecause I don't have school on
top of everything.
But I'd say three main thingsI'm doing now is one is the
(10:34):
marketing agency, two socialmedia, and then I'm also
starting, uh, another healthapp, which.
We won't get into that, but
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (10:41):
coming soon.
Okay.
Coming soon.
We will follow you and we'lltalk later about how people can
find you so that they don't missthat.
And you have an accent thatsounds to me like you're not
originally from Los Angeles.
Jenna Gestetner (10:52):
Yes.
So I was originally born inLondon and I moved to Los
Angeles when I was pretty young,and I've lived here ever since.
And I decided to stay here forcollege.
I went to USC, so I, I love theweather on the West Coast.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (11:07):
Why don't you tell everybody why is
there this young woman here whocan only, now it's not nine
anymore, you said it's up to howmany foods can you eat now?
14.
Jenna Gestetner (11:17):
14, okay.
And why is that?
So I have a condition calledMast Activation Syndrome, and
Mast cells are part of yourimmune system.
The most common knowledge aroundallergies is around histamine,
right?
And basically what happens isthe histamine gets released and
that causes all those symptomsthat cause an allergic reaction.
(11:37):
But in people with mast cellconditions or MCAS, which is
what I have, the mast cellsrelease histamine among with
hundreds of other mediators thatthere are.
Um, but they release them waytoo often in response to way too
many things that should be safe.
It's like your body ismisinterpreting things as being
dangerous, and so it causes meto react to most foods.
(12:00):
But it's not just foods.
I react to fabrics.
I react to certain fragrances.
I can react to temperaturechanges, pressure changes, so
many different things.
And it makes me have all thesedifferent symptoms that can
happen in any system of my body,in response to so many things.
And it can change as well, likefrom one day to the next, I
could get sick and it could getworse.
(12:21):
And it's very complicated and.
I think that's why, one, it's sohard to diagnose and two took me
so long, I don't know if Imentioned this, but I had these
problems since like basicallythe day I was born I had these
strange mystery unrelated,health issues.
But when I was 18, that's when Ireally got a diagnosis and
(12:42):
figured out that these are allexplained by MCAS.
And you know, it is just so hardbecause they relate to so many
different.
Systems of the body, and I thinkMCAS and Mast cell conditions
have gotten a lot morerecognition over the past few
years.
But before that, I thinkcommonly allergists would see
(13:04):
allergy symptoms and they eithersay you have allergies or not.
And because I had never hadanaphylaxis, my allergy symptoms
were not considered allergies.
They were consideredSensitivities or intolerances
when in reality they weren't,they were allergies.
It was my immune systemresponding, not my GI system,
but it didn't get recognizedbecause it wouldn't come up on
skin tests.
(13:25):
'cause they weren't IgE mediatedallergies, which is what all
those skin and blood test testsfor.
They were Mast cell reactionsand, and that's what took so
long for it to get diagnosed.
That's what, you know, makes itso hard to, to see and it is
invisible.
You can't see that.
The old diagnostic criteria wasvery outdated and I actually
(13:46):
wouldn't have met the olddiagnostic criteria.
So that was part of the problem,was that when I was going to
allergist, a lot of them were,even though they, the new
diagnostic criteria wasapproved, they were still
following the old one, which Ididn't meet.
Um, and I believe the newdiagnostic criteria might have
come out, been published in2020, maybe 2019.
And I was getting diagnosed.
(14:07):
Early 2021.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:10):
Okay.
Yeah.
And that's around the time whenI started hearing people talk
about MCAS, even though I'vebeen working in food allergy
since like 2012, you know, notmedically, but mental health
wise.
I don't feel like I heard peopletalking about it until around
COVID time, it
Jenna Gestetner (14:22):
seems
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:22):
like.
Yeah, exactly.
Jenna Gestetner (14:22):
And I think part of that actually came from,
there have been studies done on,uh, long COVID and MCAS and some
connections between that.
And I think that probably helpedthe fact that there was being
research done on that to bringmore awareness to Mars cell
conditions.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:37):
Okay.
So despite not meeting thecriteria, what was going on when
you were really young?
That was, that seemed unrelatedand unexplainable.
I mean, it was
Jenna Gestetner (14:45):
just lots of different things the way that we
framed the stuff back then wasvery different because we didn't
have this information.
But now looking back, it was.
You know, having a lot of eczemaand, and having very sensitive
skin, having a very sensitivestomach.
Um, always reacting weirdly tothings.
When I was a baby, I couldn'ttolerate anything at all.
(15:05):
Um, having constant earinfections, always getting sick,
like all these, just thingsthat, that just really made me
get labeled as like sensitive,But it was never a big problem.
It was never severe enough.
And that's the thing that Ialways say, and I think this is
a very hard place for people tobe in.
Um, and I have a lot of empathyfor people who are in this place
(15:26):
where, and this, I stillexperience this.
Sometimes it's, you know.
The problem's bad enough thatsomething should be done and
that it significantly impactsyour life.
But it's not bad enough thatanybody feels they have to do
anything.
It's not bad enough that I'm inthe hospital, it's not bad
enough that if they don't dosomething, I'm gonna, have a
terrible thing happen, but it'sbad enough that if they don't do
(15:49):
something, my quality of life'sgonna decrease.
And I think that's a really hardplace to be in because
rightfully so, like doctors,they, they don't have the time
or the experience necessarily tofix everything.
But when there's a big pressureon them and something has to be
done, they're more likely to doit than just not really knowing
what to do.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (16:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You fell through the cracks fora long time.
Did did things also get worse atsome point when you were older?
Jenna Gestetner (16:15):
Yes.
When I was around 12 or 13,things got a lot worse.
Before I could basically eatevery food with some tiny
exceptions, that's when, everymonth, every couple of months, I
would suddenly not be able toeat a bunch of foods.
And at that point it didn't makesense.
I was like, well, what do youmean?
Like, I could eat that food afew days ago.
Now I can't.
Now we know.
That's why in hindsightexplaining this is very
(16:36):
different than when I wasexperiencing it and how I
would've described it.
But, um, MCAS can, the baselineof the condition can level up,
and get permanently worse inresponse to stress on your
immune system, whether that'sphysical or psychological
stress.
So I can actually pinpointspecific times in my life that
were physically orpsychologically stressful and
(16:58):
correlate that with.
Suddenly starting to react to awhole new group of foods.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:03):
Was it hard to track it down?
Was it really clear andimmediate when you would start
reacting to a new food that thatwas
Jenna Gestetner (17:08):
called?
No.
Sometimes it was really hard,and I think that was the mental
burden of that was hard as well,because.
I would be like, there'ssomething doing this to me.
I'd suddenly realized there'ssomething doing this to me, and
then I'd realize that this hadhad actually been happening for
months and I hadn't reallyrealized, or I'd considered it
my new baseline, to realize thatit's not normal to have
headaches every day to realizethat it's not normal to have
(17:28):
stomach aches every day, torealize that, all these
different things and things thatI didn't even realize, like how
bad my anxiety and my OCD was.
W actually related to some ofthat, right?
Like now that I don't have that,and a lot of that had to do with
this like downstream effect ofMast cells activating,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:48):
I was gonna say all that.
Oh my gosh.
All that histamine in the bodybecause so many things that feel
like anxiety, what we callanxiety.
It's really a physiologicalresponse.
Who was the miracle doctor whofinally was able to help you
have a name for what was goingon?
Jenna Gestetner (18:02):
There were a lot of.
Doctors in the mix.
I had seen so many allergistsbecause I, thought that was like
the way to go.
Around that time I'd heard aboutMast cell conditions and so I
was sort of pursuing that in away.
But I had been shut down so manytimes and I definitely was very
discouraged and my pediatrician,who I had really trusted, and
(18:25):
she's an amazing doctor and.
I came to her one day and, andtold her that I truly felt like
my intuition.
I knew that all of this wasconnected.
Um, and she basically said tome, she turned around and went,
you know, Jenna, you'll neverfind an answer that explains
everything.
And she said that point blank tome.
And that was one of the mostshocking things I had heard,
(18:45):
because I had never expected herto say that.
And that definitely discouragedme.
And it wasn't until I saw, Thisgastroenterologist I was just
seeing him for general things.
It was not to diagnose thisproblem because I didn't think
there was a problem at thatpoint.
I'd been, you know, told thatthat wasn't the case.
And from the moment that Istepped into his office, I knew
(19:08):
that experience was going to bedifferent from a lot of the
other doctors.
I'd been seeing, a lot of theallergists I'd been seeing.
He asked me questions like, whatdo you think it is?
What tests do you want me to do?
And really let me lead the, theinteraction and the experience,
and that made me comfortableenough to, at the end of the
(19:31):
appointment, this thing came upinto my head or this thing that
had happened, and it was likeirrelevant.
Like it felt irrelevant, butsomething in me was telling me
to tell.
So I told him, and it was thisthing of where I went for a walk
in the morning and I had gottenhives and I'd gone to my doctor,
'cause it was during COVID.
So my mom wanted to make surethere wasn't anything wrong.
She mentioned that sometimes shesees kids get in and usually it
(19:54):
just happens once, never happensagain.
And it's a process in your bodycalled mastocytosis when the
mast cells released histamine.
And so I went home and as I did,I googled what mastocytosis was.
And, you know, I saw thatmastocytosis is yes, a process
in the body, but it's also acondition.
And I read about it, but I knewI didn't have that.
And so I never thought about itagain.
(20:16):
But then when I had said that tohim, to this new doctor, I said
to him, you know, this thinghappened.
It's unrelated.
And he's like, no, no, no.
I want, I want to hear.
And we were actually about towalk out of his office and he,
he went and sat back downbecause he, he wanted to listen
to me.
So I told him this and he, andas soon as I said the word
mastocytosis, I saw a light bulbgo off in his head and he turned
around to his assistant and hesaid, can we order one more
(20:39):
test?
And he asked if that was okay.
He asked permission, he said, isit okay if I order one more
test?
And he explained why.
He said, there's this conditioncalled Mast cell activation
syndrome.
And it sounds like a lot of thethings that I'm saying could
align with that.
And he warned me that it's rareand that.
Even with people who know theyhave MCAS, sometimes the test
doesn't even come back positive.
(20:59):
But he was like, I just won'torder this.
Like we're already ordering allthese other tests, might as
well.
Long story short, it came backpositive and I found he was
like, look, I am not an expert.
I can't diagnose you with it,but I think this is a really
good start.
And if it wasn't for him, Iwould've never.
Found a doctor who coulddiagnose me.
During COVID I found an MCASspecialist, which at the time
(21:20):
was very difficult.
Now there are a lot more people.
At the time I found two, one inla, one in on the east coast,
and the LA one had like a ninemonth wait.
So yes, I did end up flying,flying to New York in the middle
of COVID.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (21:33):
It was probably worth it though, to get
some answers finally, after yourwhole life of wondering.
So I follow you on Instagram.
I'm too old.
I'm not an Instagram person.
I wanna sit down and like talkabout the whole thing.
So people will see a lot of thisin your content, but can you
just describe to us day-to-daylife now that you know what
you're dealing with, how wellmanaged is it, and what do you
have to do to stay feeling ashealthy and well as you can?
Jenna Gestetner (21:56):
I think in the past year I've really realized
how much of an impact your mindand your psychological, mental,
and emotional health has on yourphysical health, especially with
stress.
I've always known that I've hadanxiety, and I think that
anxiety gave me this sense ofcontrol that I really needed,
(22:18):
and that sense of control is theonly thing that I felt was
keeping me safe.
And it made my life very, well,I, I felt like it was very good,
but it made my life very, what'sthe word?
I mean, look, I probablywould've said consistent, but
(22:39):
now looking back, I wouldn't usethe word consistent, I said no
to a lot of things, especiallyin college.
I said no to a lot of things.
I felt like I couldn't do a lotof things.
I kept myself very shelteredbecause I was worried that
anything I did outside of mydaily routine could be a risk.
And not only did I feel like itcould be a risk, but the mental
burden of trying to figure out,like say I did do something
(22:59):
different out of my routine andthen.
Something happened, it triggereda symptom or something, then I
would rack my brain and spendall this mental energy trying to
figure out what it was, and thatwas exhausting.
And so I just decided that itwas better not to do things.
And I think over the past yearI've really acknowledged that
(23:21):
there are a lot of experiencesthat I had, especially around
the time where I was havingthese problems and they were
getting worse and I was gettingdiagnosed that I developed these
unhealthy ways of thinking orways of coping, um, that at the
time, like I'm not, and I don'ttry and think of them
negatively.
Like I don't try and, say, oh, Ishouldn't have done that, or I
(23:43):
shouldn't have been that way.
That that is what I needed to doat the time to keep myself safe
and feel like I was safe.
It was a co like that's what acoping mechanism is, right?
Um.
But just realizing that I don'tneed them anymore.
About a year ago I had thismoment, or you know, it was like
over the course of a month, butthese moments of realizing that
I'm in a place now where I don'tneed those anymore.
(24:05):
I don't need those things toprotect me.
And that's not to say that myhealth is so much better.
Like honestly, my health issimilar, maybe even a little bit
worse, but I've realized that.
No matter what my health is at,I can make my life better by
(24:26):
working with my brain andworking with what I have.
Like the example that I alwayslike to use is, I like the
control thing.
I've said this many times.
You wrote 10 down.
I like control.
It is a very natural humanresponse.
It's just to validate that foreverybody.
We all feel better when we havecontrol.
Exactly.
But I realized that I wasgetting very, this was probably
(24:50):
my second year of college.
I realized like how hard it wasfor me that I was constantly
felt like my life was outta mycontrol.
Symptoms were getting worse.
I'd get sick.
I got COVID and I got reallybad, like MCAS flared up, pots
flared up all this.
I felt so out of control, so Irealized.
Okay.
(25:11):
I can't ruminate on trying toget myself that control'cause
I'm not gonna get it.
Like, gotta just surrender that.
I'm not gonna have that.
Okay, so how else can I givemyself control?
So I started developing thesehabits in my life and changing
my lifestyle, like going for awalk every morning.
First thing I do, go for a walk,whether it's one mile or three
miles, whatever I can do, it'ssomething because one that gives
me that sense of control.
(25:31):
It gives me that sense ofroutine, it gives me that sense
of consistency.
Also, I know going for a walk isgonna make me feel good, even if
I wake up not feeling that good.
I know it's the best thing forme.
You know, small things likethat, that I implemented into my
lifestyle, that gave me thatcontrol because I knew I needed
it.
It's like acknowledging that Ineed the control, not trying to
push away the part of me thatneeds that, but doing it in a
way that is actually
Amanda Whitehouse, P (25:52):
realistic.
Right.
Distinguishing what between whatyou can and what you can't
control.
Yeah.
And then controlling the thingsthat you do have influence over
that can have a positive effecton you.
So simple, but it's such astruggle for so many of us
because of course we wannacontrol that uncontrollable
thing.
Right?
Jenna Gestetner (26:08):
Yeah.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (26:08):
Do you think it's the extreme nature of
what you were dealing with thatforced you to realize like,
that's just not gonna happen.
I'm never gonna be able tocontrol this?
Jenna Gestetner (26:16):
Yeah, I think it is..
I would consider myself to be ina pretty good place right now,
and it's really easy to.
Think back and think, well, whydidn't I adopt this mindset
before?
Why didn't I think of thisbefore?
Like, somebody listening, beinglike, okay, well then why can't
I think that way?
I don't think you can just tellsomebody to make these switches.
I think you have to really beready.
That's just how it is.
(26:38):
I think you can put yourself ina position to be ready for that,
but ultimately it's just likethis switch that happens in your
brain.
And I think just being open tothat happening like now, I've
had that a lot more because I'mjust open to it happening., I'm
open to allowing myself tochange my life instantly.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (26:57):
Yes, and that's such a good point.
I can attest to that as apsychologist, obviously sitting
and talking for people for longperiods of time where I can see
that from the outside.
But of course it's socomplicated inside from the
perspective of as a parent, forall the parents listening, you
can't just say this to your kidsor make them listen to Jenna
talk about it here and have itmagically click.
It has to be at the moment whentheir body and brain and
(27:18):
emotions are receptive to it.
So thank you for pointing thatout.
Forcing optimism and positivityand choice on someone is not
effective or really soothing.
Jenna Gestetner (27:28):
I think the mindset shift that's helped me
is like that.
It's a possibility it's not theoption, it's just a possibility.
you can be healed.
What if?
What if it's actually apossibility?
What if it's a possibility thatyou don't have to be afraid of
things?
What if it's a possibility thatin a couple of years I could eat
every food?
What if it's a possibility that.
(27:49):
Even though I got sick a fewweeks ago and now my symptoms
are worse, that tomorrow I couldwake up and those symptoms could
be back to the way it wasbefore.
Like it's, it's not dismissingthe fact that that's my
experience and that it'sfrustrating and that part of my
brain wants to think in thenegative way of like, well now
this is my life.
Like part of me wants to thinkthat way.
And okay, that's fine, but likealso there's a possibility that
(28:11):
that's not the case.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (28:13):
I love that.
I love the way you're describingit to me it has that idea of
like forcing or resisting versusacceptance and then allowing for
two things at once you'retalking about holding space for
both of those at the same time,which is hard, but I think
that's why what you're doing isso effective for you.
Yeah.
I work with a lot of peoplemanaging food allergies, and it
feels hopeless.
(28:34):
It feels terrifying.
They feel very much like it'soverwhelming what's on my plate
in terms of how this affects mylife, or what's different about
me, or what my needs arecompared to other people.
Jenna Gestetner (28:45):
I think there's two parts to it.
There's like the internal partof you and your life, how you
feel about your life, and alsothe people that you surround
yourself with.
I think starting to reallyunderstand yourself.
'cause I truly believe, like ineverything that I do, whether
it's like personal work,everything, communication is the
most important thing.
So I think learning to listen toyourself, learning to understand
(29:09):
like what the symptoms are andalso your emotions, and really
listening to that and reallyhonoring that.
And then also being able tocommunicate that with other
people.
So for me, in my life, thatmeans, um, really listening to
my symptoms and what my body istrying to tell me, and also
listening to how I feel aboutthings, what triggers me, like
(29:29):
maybe understand why it triggersme.
Um.
Because I do think that in thepast, and I'm sure people in my
life probably wouldn't say this,but at least the way that I feel
is like, maybe I wasn't the bestfriend.
Maybe I wasn't the best likedaughter or the best sister
because I was handling, I wasdealing with so much, like yeah,
(29:50):
I was impatient, I was stubborn.
Having.
Empathy for myself in the pastthat I didn't do that because I
was trying to be a bad person ortrying to, um, negatively affect
or impact other people, but thatI was dealing with so much that
I didn't understand and thatother people couldn't understand
and that they couldn'tunderstand because I couldn't
(30:12):
understand and articulate itwith them, and like really
understanding that.
And so now trying to change thatand understanding what's
happening in myself so that Ican communicate that with other
people and.
Hoping that the people aroundme, and I think that it's a
privilege, but also a choice,like surround yourself with
people that do understand thatand even if they don't, are open
(30:34):
to trying to understand that.
Um, because I think it justmakes your life so much better
'cause like you were saying,some people feel hopeless, and
I've definitely had moments ofthat, but it's, again, it's the
possibility.
It's like, okay, well why don'twe just like deal with how we
feel right now.
Deal with what we can do rightnow and do it because there's a
(30:54):
possibility that this might besomething different in the
future.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (30:57):
That's so well said.
Thank you for expressing that.
I love all of it, but one partthat I think doesn't get said
enough is underscoring theimportance, why does it matter
if I pay attention to how I'mfeeling?
Right?
Why is it important for me tounderstand what's going on
within myself, but how can youpossibly express your needs if
you can't understand ityourself?
Jenna Gestetner (31:15):
And how can you expect other people to know what
you need?
If, if they don't, if they don'tknow
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (31:21):
Right.
They're, they can't figure itout for you
Jenna Gestetner (31:23):
if you can't.
Exactly.
I always use the example myfamily has been so amazing now
that we all have thisinformation in, in really like
sort of like rewriting some ofthe things that have happened in
the past and like and trulyproving the sentiment that
people do have, like your bestinterest in mind, and the reason
that they might act a certainway that might make you feel
(31:44):
upset or make you feel like theydon't care is only because
there's some misunderstandinggoing on.
And the example I always use isI used to.
You know, when I was learning todrive like my dad would we, we'd
be going out.
Okay.
Like you drive, right?
Makes sense.
Like parent wants the kid topractice to drive common sense.
But I would always get reallyupset because I didn't want to
drive and I would say, I don'twant to drive.
(32:05):
I don't want to drive.
He is like, well, why don't youwanna drive?
You need to learn to drive'causeI'm tired'cause I'm tired.
Like that's an excuse.
Right?
So that was seen as an excuse.
'cause you're tired.
Well, everyone's tired.
Right.
When really what was happeningwas I had so many of these
chronic symptoms and I genuinelywas so exhausted, so fatigued,
my brain, like brain fog.
I really like felt like Icouldn't drive, but I didn't
(32:27):
know how to express that.
And I also think because I hadhad so many problems that went
unvalidated, that I eveninvalidated them in myself and
thought, well, this isn't aproblem.
Everybody feels this way.
Right?
And now that kind of situationwouldn't happen because.
I have the understanding, whichmeans other people have the
under understanding and that,and it's not, oh, you don't
(32:49):
wanna do something'cause you'retired.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (32:51):
Right, right.
But how would you know if Yeah.
Every doctor you had ever seentold you that's, that's not
what's happening or that's justnormal.
Everybody feels that way.
What, yeah.
Adding to that, what else wouldyou say to parents of kids who
are dealing with somecomplicated stuff like this?
Jenna Gestetner (33:06):
You know, I think about this a lot because I
wanna have kids and I thinkabout like how I would.
You know, approach that.
And I think it's aboutcommunication.
Again, it's like understandingif something's going on that you
don't think is normal, it's, youknow, they're misbehaving or
(33:26):
they're acting outside of whothey usually are.
I think it's really easy to jumpto conclusions, and I think
opening up that language isreally helpful and.
Even if it's not to find theanswer or solve the problem,
it's like, okay, hold on asecond.
(33:46):
You're telling me you're tired,but like, can we take a pause?
Can we, can we understand?
Can you like describe what'shappening?
Can you, can you tell me more?
Like how does this feel?
And I think even if it doesn'tchange the outcome, it took me
so long to develop thatlanguage.
And I think if somebody would'vefacilitated that in myself.
(34:07):
That could have helped medevelop that language because
the first step is withinyourself.
Like the first step was medeveloping that language in
order to communicate to somebodyelse.
And I think sometimes the fearis okay, but what if they like
make it up?
Like what if they're saying theydon't wanna unload the
dishwasher?
And then you go and ask them andthey make up more excuses.
And what I would say to that is,I don't think inherently
(34:31):
children like.
Are trying to make up excuses.
Um, and especially if you openthat language and they genuinely
feel that you care and want tohelp them.
I personally, look, I know I've,I was very well behaved child.
I, I will admit, like I wasalways very well behaved, um,
and my parents had a lot oftrust in me.
(34:52):
So I think some of that stufflike did go with that.
But I think inherently,especially if you start at a
young age.
Then there would be no reason tomake up excuses because they
know that when they needsomething, their needs will be
met.
So when the needs aren't asextreme, they don't feel the
need to like try and getsomething out of it because
(35:14):
there's that balance there,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (35:16):
right?
And they know that you're goingto listen and create the space.
Then they have the room todevelop that safely and then
they develop that trust in youthat you are going to listen and
take it seriously When there issomething up they're trying to
explain and you'll be betterconnected to your kid to know
the difference.
Right.
You've spent enough timelistening to distinguish between
that.
Jenna Gestetner (35:33):
Exactly.
And I think there's this coping,there's this protective
mechanism that I certainly had,and sometimes do still have, but
if you are around people thatwhere you know that your needs
will be met if somethinghappened.
Like I think a lot of peoplethink like worst case scenario,
whether they're aware of it ornot, when you're around people
(35:56):
where you know, if the thisworst case scenario happened
that you would be fully takencare of, you're much more likely
to be open, not only to enjoyingan experience, but also to
giving some of your resources,whether that's time, energy,
mental space, whatever it is.
Because you don't have, youdon't feel like you have to
conserve it all for yourselfjust in case.
(36:18):
And I think that's why a lot oftimes I was very reserved
because I felt like I had toconserve it all in case because
nobody else would be there.
And that obviously wasn't thecase.
Like it wasn't that nobody elsewould be there, but it's that I
felt that because I didn't knowhow to articulate my own needs,
so I didn't have that assurancethat other people would be there
for it.
And I think that's likesomething that we have to
(36:40):
remember.
Whether it's a friend or a childor really anybody really
understanding what that personmight be experiencing and not
just assuming things.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (36:53):
I am sitting here smiling at you as
you're talking because I knowyou've got your plans laid out
and you know what you're good atand you know what you love, but
you'd make a really goodpsychologist, Jenna, if you ever
have any interest or decide tochange gears yeah, you seem like
you just have a natural knackand maybe, maybe that's one of
those unexpected strengths thatyou've developed because you've
spent some time sifting throughall of this,
Jenna Gestetner (37:13):
I do think that that skill has been strengthened
because of all of this.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (37:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's obvious.
I love the way that you'rewording these things, I can tell
already is gonna be a goodepisode, not just for parents to
listen to, but like, Hey, let'ssit down and listen to this one
together.
Let's go for a drive.
I want you to listen to thisgirl, Jenna.
Because it's different when it'scoming from someone like you,
like you said, who, who gets itand has lived it.
Jenna Gestetner (37:34):
And I'll also be the first to admit that it's
hard to be open and communicatewith people.
It can be a very vulnerablething.
And like, I'll even say that.
I think part of the reason myparents and people in my family,
or even my friends or people inmy life have so much of an
understanding now is because ofsome of the work I've done with
social media, whether that'slike they see a video of me
(37:57):
talking about something that Iprobably wouldn't talk straight
to their face about or.
Like on a podcast and they'lllisten to it and they'll say
something and I'm like, wait,did I tell you that?
And they're like, yeah, you saidit on a podcast.
And I'm like, that's crazy thatI like told however many people
could listen to this that, but Iwouldn't tell you.
I just think it's, it'ssometimes it's hard to do that
and it's hard to challenge likebeliefs of a situational beliefs
(38:19):
of what somebody else mightthink or what you might think.
But I can promise that.
It's worth it and if there'slike a bad response to it, then
it's actually worth it becausethen you know that person.
It doesn't have your bestinterest in mind.
Amanda Whitehouse, (38:34):
Absolutely.
Uh, you make a great point too,about the power of indirect
communication.
You know, you're talking aboutlistening and, but sometimes
it's really hard, especially forkids, but for everybody, if
someone just sits down and says,tell me what's going on, how are
you feeling?
Right?
And for you, you found thatindirect way to say it through
some of the social media workthat you're doing, but with,
with kids, to allow them towrite it down to play with kids
(38:55):
indirectly, I think touches onwhat you're saying Letting it
out in a way that feels a littlebit less vulnerable because
Yeah, it's hard to just sit downand pour it all out right to
somebody.
Yeah.
We haven't talked about the POTSpiece of things yet.
Do you mind sharing a little bitabout that piece of
Jenna Gestetner (39:11):
things?
Yeah, so I use the term potsbecause it's what is well known,
but.
I would say that my symptomsmore align with like the general
dysautonomia.
So dysautonomia is like theumbrella term that POTS falls
under.
Um, and for anybody who doesn'tknow, dysautonomia is, the
dysfunction of your autonomicnervous system.
So the autonomic nervous systemcontrols all the things that
(39:34):
happen without you trying, likebreathing, digestion, heart
rate.
All those different things.
And pots is posturalorthostatic, orthostatic
tachycardia syndrome.
So essentially, you know, whenyou go from sitting to standing
or you go from lying down tositting up, your heart rate
tends to, spike much higher thanmost people's and it can cause
(39:54):
an imbalance in your system.
And oftentimes that's due todifferent factors like blood
pressure and, all thesedifferent things.
The way that I see it and whatI've been, I know some people
believe in, different theoriesor, based on different evidence
that they've seen, but how I seeit, is that it's very connected
to MCAS and that, there are Mastcells everywhere, nobody
(40:16):
including in the lining of allyour blood vessels.
And I definitely noticed thatwhen my MCAS flares up, my POTS
symptoms flare up and it'sdirectly correlated.
And that oftentimes an MCASflare up or Mast cell reaction
for me includes OMI symptoms.
And yeah, it definitely affects,a lot of things in my life.
And it affects generally likethe way that I feel, the way
(40:42):
that I live.
It can affect my energy levels.
It also can affect like how Ifeel mentally.
Especially when I feel like yourheart rate, blood pressure, all
these different things arespiking in you having these
like.
Adrenaline spikes and thingsthat can definitely affect like
your emotions and the way thatyou're able to think about
things.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (41:00):
Yeah.
Well, and your body interpretsphysical symptoms as emotions.
So as we talked about before,it's great that there's all this
awareness of depression andanxiety symptoms, but sometimes
a racing heart symptom is aphysical, symptom physical
condition.
And yet our brain will still go,I feel so anxious and uptight.
What's wrong?
And try to search for the mentalexplanation.
Jenna Gestetner (41:20):
Sometimes our brain interprets physical
symptoms as more than that, andI had actually been working out
like every day high intensityworkouts and I felt great.
And it wasn't until somebodysaid something, It made me
question, I was like, what ifthe adrenaline that I get from
working out is sort of giving mea false sense of energy and a
(41:44):
false sense of like wellbeing?
So I stopped working out and thefirst few days were horrible,
felt terrible, and then itstarted to turn around, around
like the second week and Irealized, I think what was
happening was.
My body was so used to havingadrenaline pumping throughout my
body because of all thesereactions and inflammation and
(42:05):
this and all this stuff that washappening that I had never
really given my body a chance tohave a break.
And I took some time off ofworking out.
And when I started to go back toit, I noticed that.
When I would do any kind ofcardio, even like on a, you
know, an elliptical machinewhere it's completely low
(42:26):
impact, you can control like howhigh your heart rate is going by
the speed.
Even when my heart rate wouldstart to go up a little bit, I
would start to have these likeadrenaline, like rushes like
that, you know that feeling whenlike your heart, like your chest
tightens and you feel thatadrenaline and um, and I didn't
like it.
I was like.
I don't like that feeling.
(42:48):
Um, and it's been about sixmonths now, and I'm just
starting to get back into itwith like a real focus on being
very mindful of how my body'sresponding to exercise.
You know, practicing thingslike, uh, the like methodology,
um, that comes from like yogaand a lot of those like.
Eastern medicine practices whereyou only breathe in and out
(43:08):
through your nose and if youhave to take breaths through
your mouth, you know, you knowyou're going too hard to like
focus on not putting stress onmy body.
And that's really helped, butit's also given me like a new
perspective on.
On what like health is and whathealthy things are like.
You think exercise is healthy,cardio is healthy.
But I think when your body hasbeen in this state of like fight
(43:29):
or flight in this state ofconstant stress, you actually
don't even realize it anymorebecause you're so used to it.
And sometimes you need to takethat step back,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (43:38):
right.
And teach your body a new ahealthier normal for you.
Yeah, but that's so hard becausethat is so contrary to, working
out and exercise and push itharder and transform your body.
Right.
And especially I would imaginemore so for someone your age
who's so active on social media,there's so much of that out
there.
Jenna Gestetner (43:58):
Yeah.
I think that's the funny thing,if people ask like, oh, you
create content, what kind ofcontent you create?
You know, I'm not gonna get intothe whole thing.
So I'm just like, oh, I createhealth content.
And they're like, oh, like I'msuch a wellness girly, I love
going to the gym and takingsupplements.
And I'm like.
Yeah, sure.
That's what I, you know, likethat's definitely not what I
talk about.
I think health is so subjective.
Like the idea of healthy issubjective.
(44:19):
Somebody might look at me andsay, you are not healthy.
But I think of myself as healthybecause to me, health isn't not
having health problems.
It's about your lifestyle.
It's about like the things thatyou are doing and how you're
treating your body, notnecessarily like the state of
your body.
Um, like.
I do think some definitions ofhealthy is like the absence of
disease, but I see it as morethe way that you're treating
(44:40):
your body.
Because I would consider myselfto be healthy.
Um, yeah, I have problems withmy health the way that it
functions, but I'm healthy.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (44:48):
What else do you want people to know
about you?
Jenna Gestetner (44:50):
Really everything I do all comes back
down to helping people andhelping them live their best
life and being able to see lifemore positively and approach it
more positively and making themfeel seen.
Whether that means someone elseseeing you or you seeing
yourself the interesting thingabout my life is that I would
(45:13):
say my life is normal, butsomebody else might be like on
earth.
You talking about your life isnot normal.
And I think.
The thing is, I don't center mylife around the conditions I
have.
I don't center my life aroundthe fact that I can only eat 14
foods.
Some people love to say that onsocial media, that that's like
my only personality trait.
And I'm like, well, you know,you wish you knew me in real
(45:34):
life then.
Um, but you know, there's areason I share that online.
But in reality, this isliterally just my life.
Sometimes I forget that like, Imean, I don't forget, I can only
eat 14 foods, but I forget thatthat's like not a normal thing.
Like, I forget that you can justgo to a restaurant and pick
something off the menu.
I forget that you go to thegrocery store and don't buy the
same thing every time.
(45:54):
I honestly forget like this isjust my life.
Like I'm just just living likethis.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (45:59):
Right.
Acceptance like you talked aboutbefore.
Jenna Gestetner (46:01):
Exactly Tell people where they can find you.
So on Instagram, YouTube, andTikTok at Jenna X Health and
anywhere on the internet, Iguess.
Amanda Whitehouse, P (46:12):
Wonderful.
Your mindset and your positivitytricks I think, are gonna
resonate with a lot of people.
So appreciate you so much forbeing here.
I,
Jenna Gestetner (46:20):
I hope so.
And thank you so much for havingme.
I really enjoyed talking to you.
I hope this episode leaves youfeeling as positive as I am
after listening to Jenna Notbecause any of us are denying
our challenges, but because wecan learn how to live in
partnership with our bodies andwhatever is unique about them.
Jenna's ability to focus onpossibility instead of scarcity.
(46:40):
To choose joy without ignoringthe hard parts is such a
powerful reminder that ourmindset shapes so much of our
experience.
I hope you'll take away fromtoday's chat, the idea that
honoring your needs and focusingon what's in your control isn't
giving up.
It's building the foundation forthe life that you want to
choose.
So here are your three actionsteps for following up with this
episode.
Number one, I want you to learnto check in with your body, this
(47:02):
is a really simple routine thatyou can start to pause early in
the day is better.
And notice how your body'sfeeling.
Ask yourself.
What do I need right now?
And pay attention to what arisesin your body and where, and what
it feels like or what thoughtspop into your head, and then
find a way to follow through.
Even if you can't do thatimmediately, if your body is
telling you that it needs rest,hydration, connection, quiet,
(47:25):
solitude, movement, those areall things that you can
acknowledge and then find thetime to do them when you're able
to, even if you can't, right atthat moment.
Number two, if you're notalready following Jenna, You can
find her, as she said at Jenna XHealth.
That's her website and hersocials.
Wish her a happy birthday thereand check out her videos if you
haven't already.
You might find one of my recentfavorites, which she just
(47:46):
recently shared of her making athree layer birthday cake with
her safe foods, which wasamazing.
And number three, I'mcelebrating my birthday with
Jenna here as the summer iswinding down and if you are
finding the podcast helpful, Iappreciate you listening and it
would mean so much to me If youwould rate a review of the show
wherever you get your podcasts,and if you would share it with
(48:08):
somebody who needs it or shareit on your socials, it really
means a lot to me to put thetime in and to see the show
continue to grow and reach moreand more people who are finding
it helpful.
So thank you again forlistening.
It means so much to me and I'mstill basking in the glow of the
first birthday of the show, andall of the growth.
That has happened in the lastyear.
(48:28):
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
I'm Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
What if it's a possibility that you don't have
(00:01):
to be afraid of things?
What if it's a possibility thatin a couple of years I could eat
every food?
What if it's a possibility that.
Even though I got sick a fewweeks ago and now my symptoms
are worse, that tomorrow I couldwake up and those symptoms could
be back to the way it wasbefore.
Like it's, it's not dismissingthe fact that that's my
experience and that it'sfrustrating and that part of my
brain wants to think in thenegative way of like, well now
(00:25):
this is my life.
Like part of me wants to thinkthat way.
And okay, that's fine, but likealso there's a possibility that
that's not the case.
Speaker (00:34):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:55):
Today we're continuing on thebirthday theme from the summer
and inviting Jenna Gestetner.
You guys know her on Instagramas Jenna X Health.
She just recently celebrated herbirthday, Jenna's on the show
here today to talk to us aboutliving with any kind of chronic
illness doesn't have to mean asmall life.
She lives with MCAS POTS andmultiple food allergies, leaving
(01:15):
her with just 14 foods on thetable that she can eat safely.
But what's remarkable is howshe's chosen to focus on what's
off the table.
In our conversation, Jennashares how she's learned to
honor her body's signs andneeds, build a full and rich
life beyond the limits of herdiet and protect her mental
health.
Along the way, we talk aboutcreating joy that isn't centered
(01:35):
on food, leaning into the thingsthat she can do, and how she has
cultivated a strong mindset andself-awareness to help her
thrive despite her chronic painand fatigue.
Whether you live with foodallergies, chronic illness, or
know someone who does This is aconversation that will lift you
up.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (01:52):
Jenna, thank you so much for joining me
here on the podcast.
I'm so excited you have such aunique story yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to talk with you.
I appreciate it so much.
I know it's, it probably getstiring to give the spiel, how do
you tell people about yourselfin this like food allergy,
medical kind of space
Jenna Gestetner (02:09):
I am 22, I'll be 23 soon.
Um, so I just graduated fromcollege and you know, I've
always been very passionateabout health and that's always
been something that's been hugein my life and contrary to what
a lot of people believe, becausebesides doing social media, I
also work in healthcare and mostpeople think I work in
healthcare because of my health.
But it was sort of the other wayaround.
(02:32):
Um.
You know, I, I've always lovedhealth, like I said, and I've
just always found it reallyinteresting to be able to work
in healthcare, to really helppeople.
I think that's always been my,my life's purpose and, you know,
I was working in healthcare andsimultaneously starting to have
these issues with my health and.
Really figuring out how tonavigate what was happening.
(02:54):
I was having so many differentrandom, complicated symptoms,
not knowing what was happening,and it was hard.
It felt very lonely.
It felt very confusing.
It didn't feel like I knew whatto do or where I was going or
what kind of answers there couldbe for me.
And I think working inhealthcare really did help me
give me the tools to navigatethat.
And so.
(03:16):
When I was about halfway throughcollege, uh, somebody as a joke
said I should post a videotalking about how I can only eat
nine foods.
It was nine foods at that point.
Now it's more than that.
But you know how it, to them, itwas interesting that there was
so many foods that I couldn'teat that, you know, it was
easier to list the ones I could.
And I was like, nobody everwould ever want to listen to
(03:37):
that.
And that was the first time Ireally challenged that belief
and I ended up.
Posting something about it andit went viral and within a
couple of weeks I had, or even acouple of days, I had 10,000
followers.
And that really just showed mehow many people are truly not
only one interested, curious,um, but also how many people can
(03:59):
actually relate.
I had never met somebody elsewith the same condition or even
a similar condition or a similarexperience in my everyday life.
And it was really valuable to.
Um, you know, be seen by so manypeople in that way.
Um, but the irony of it is, isthat they were finding the
content interesting because thecontent I was sharing was making
(04:20):
them feel so seen.
So, you know, it's that two-wayrelationship of like, we're both
doing that for each other.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (04:25):
Right.
That validation is so valuablefrom someone who knows and who
understands something similar topeople.
So that's amazing you didn't setout to be like a social media
star.
You just posted a little thingand it blew up.
Jenna Gestetner (04:36):
No, and I've always loved making content.
I'm a very creative person.
I would describe myself as acreative entrepreneur.
Like everything I do, I do somany different things.
Like I said, I work inhealthcare, I do marketing.
I have a marketing agency forhealthcare companies, and I also
create content on social media.
But really.
I, I loved creating content.
I loved being creative in thatway, and taking photos, taking
(05:01):
videos, and editing themtogether.
And so really the only new thingwas that I was sharing my life
publicly online, which if youwould've asked me five years
ago, if I would've been doingthat, I would've said,
absolutely not.
You're absolutely insane.
And now I couldn't imagine mylife any other way.
Wow.
So what was that first post?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (05:15):
Just listing the foods that you could
eat?
Jenna Gestetner (05:18):
No.
So there was like a.
A time period before that.
So what actually happened was Iwas in a class where we had to
make a video for our assignment.
It was a filmmaking class, andmy group decided to make a video
talking about the foods that Ican eat and why that was the
case.
And so that was what sparkedthat initial curiosity around
the topic.
And then know the idea aroundsharing my life online or
(05:40):
sharing these things online cameup.
And so two to three posts were.
Different thing.
You know, this is like abouthealth, what whatever it was
like, I was just gettingcomfortable with what you even
say when you bring out yourphone.
What do you even say when you'retalking to your phone to post
publicly to everybody in theworld?
Like, um, that and.
(06:02):
My first video that did sort ofwell was a more trending style,
a trend that was happening, uh,and I, my take on it was around
pots and how like I eat a lot ofsalt, like an outrageous amount
of salt.
And that was the first time Irealized that, that there is so
much value on social media ofother people having the same
(06:22):
experience as you and being ableto relate even when it is sort
of funny.
And I think I.
I like to be very lightheartedabout things and very positive
and just take a positive spin onthings.
But I also definitely do thinkthat humor is part of my coping
mechanism.
And so when that took off, Imade another video, describing
(06:44):
what I eat in a day as somebodywho can only eat nine foods.
And that was the one that reallytook off and really started,
this journey.
Yeah.
So
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (06:55):
before we dive into that, would you
mind telling everybody what didyou go to school for and what's
your, healthcare work?
Jenna Gestetner (07:01):
So I originally started working at a big
hospital system and I wasworking in their innovation
department.
So I was working with these newcompanies that were creating
solutions to help people in somany different ways.
Some of them were techsolutions, some of them were
surgical devices.
Some of them were like staffingplatforms.
So many different things.
But I had always been passionateabout healthcare, but.
(07:24):
Knew that I didn't want to be adoctor or a nurse or a
practicing clinician.
I didn't want to have that kindof interaction with patients.
And I honestly just disregardedthat passion in of healthcare
because I really thought thatwas the only option.
And so having that internship inhigh school was the first time
(07:45):
that I saw this whole other sideof healthcare.
And so.
From then I knew that was what Iwanted to do.
What I studied is my major wasarts technology and the business
of innovation, which is reallyjust a fancy way of saying
design and business, but Ireally focused on healthcare and
my senior capstone, they don'tcall it a capstone, but that's
(08:05):
basically what it is, was allabout basically, researching and
understanding and presenting on.
Why?
I truly believe that the thingthat could make the biggest
change in healthcare ismarketing.
I think marketing is a veryunderused tool in healthcare as
(08:27):
an industry, and I think it hasthe biggest potential to create
change because of how muchpeople value community and being
seen and being understood.
Just like I was talking aboutwhat I do with my content, I
think companies can do that too.
And I think sometimes they don'tthink they have the power to do
that, but they really can.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I focused on that in college andthat's also what I do with my
(08:50):
marketing agency.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (08:51):
I'm not on that end, obviously I'm in
mental health.
I don't know a lot aboutbusiness and marketing, but that
seems so true to me of everyhealth area.
All of the things that we'regonna talk about today, like
food allergies and, and POTS andall of these chronic medical
things that people deal with, Ithink have a marketing issue in
terms of getting people tounderstand new research that's
coming out and new practices andwhat can help them.
(09:11):
And would you agree,
Jenna Gestetner (09:13):
yeah, and I think this was something I found
a lot in my research as well,which I already had a inkling
that this was the case, but Ithink.
Especially in healthcarecompared to other industries,
marketing has been seen as sortof like an icky thing.
Like why are they trying to sellme on something that I, that's
like essential to my life or myhealth?
(09:33):
And I think there are twothings.
One, not every part ofhealthcare is essential.
There are a lot of choices thatwe make.
Even if it's essential for youto take a medication or do a
treatment, there might bemultiple options.
And I think it's company's jobsto present those options in a
way that's exciting andenjoyable for us and to educate
people.
And I don't think marketing hasto be all sales.
(09:56):
It's, it's education, it'scommunity, it's connection.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (10:02):
Yeah.
And validation, like you said,as part of that connection.
So is that what you're planningcareer wise?
Are you continuing on in thatroute?
Do you have a new job thatyou're starting now, that you've
graduated?
Jenna Gestetner (10:13):
I mean, I basically tell people that it's
not really that much different.
People have been asking me, howdoes it feel to, you know, be
graduated, when are you startingwork?
And I'm over here being like,I've been working full-time for
almost a year and a halfalready, so not really much is
changing besides having a properweekend because I now actually
have the time to take a weekendbecause I don't have school on
top of everything.
But I'd say three main thingsI'm doing now is one is the
(10:34):
marketing agency, two socialmedia, and then I'm also
starting, uh, another healthapp, which.
We won't get into that, but
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (10:41):
coming soon.
Okay.
Coming soon.
We will follow you and we'lltalk later about how people can
find you so that they don't missthat.
And you have an accent thatsounds to me like you're not
originally from Los Angeles.
Jenna Gestetner (10:52):
Yes.
So I was originally born inLondon and I moved to Los
Angeles when I was pretty young,and I've lived here ever since.
And I decided to stay here forcollege.
I went to USC, so I, I love theweather on the West Coast.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (11:07):
Why don't you tell everybody why is
there this young woman here whocan only, now it's not nine
anymore, you said it's up to howmany foods can you eat now?
14.
Jenna Gestetner (11:17):
14, okay.
And why is that?
So I have a condition calledMast Activation Syndrome, and
Mast cells are part of yourimmune system.
The most common knowledge aroundallergies is around histamine,
right?
And basically what happens isthe histamine gets released and
that causes all those symptomsthat cause an allergic reaction.
(11:37):
But in people with mast cellconditions or MCAS, which is
what I have, the mast cellsrelease histamine among with
hundreds of other mediators thatthere are.
Um, but they release them waytoo often in response to way too
many things that should be safe.
It's like your body ismisinterpreting things as being
dangerous, and so it causes meto react to most foods.
(12:00):
But it's not just foods.
I react to fabrics.
I react to certain fragrances.
I can react to temperaturechanges, pressure changes, so
many different things.
And it makes me have all thesedifferent symptoms that can
happen in any system of my body,in response to so many things.
And it can change as well, likefrom one day to the next, I
could get sick and it could getworse.
(12:21):
And it's very complicated and.
I think that's why, one, it's sohard to diagnose and two took me
so long, I don't know if Imentioned this, but I had these
problems since like basicallythe day I was born I had these
strange mystery unrelated,health issues.
But when I was 18, that's when Ireally got a diagnosis and
(12:42):
figured out that these are allexplained by MCAS.
And you know, it is just so hardbecause they relate to so many
different.
Systems of the body, and I thinkMCAS and Mast cell conditions
have gotten a lot morerecognition over the past few
years.
But before that, I thinkcommonly allergists would see
(13:04):
allergy symptoms and they eithersay you have allergies or not.
And because I had never hadanaphylaxis, my allergy symptoms
were not considered allergies.
They were consideredSensitivities or intolerances
when in reality they weren't,they were allergies.
It was my immune systemresponding, not my GI system,
but it didn't get recognizedbecause it wouldn't come up on
skin tests.
(13:25):
'cause they weren't IgE mediatedallergies, which is what all
those skin and blood test testsfor.
They were Mast cell reactionsand, and that's what took so
long for it to get diagnosed.
That's what, you know, makes itso hard to, to see and it is
invisible.
You can't see that.
The old diagnostic criteria wasvery outdated and I actually
(13:46):
wouldn't have met the olddiagnostic criteria.
So that was part of the problem,was that when I was going to
allergist, a lot of them were,even though they, the new
diagnostic criteria wasapproved, they were still
following the old one, which Ididn't meet.
Um, and I believe the newdiagnostic criteria might have
come out, been published in2020, maybe 2019.
And I was getting diagnosed.
(14:07):
Early 2021.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:10):
Okay.
Yeah.
And that's around the time whenI started hearing people talk
about MCAS, even though I'vebeen working in food allergy
since like 2012, you know, notmedically, but mental health
wise.
I don't feel like I heard peopletalking about it until around
COVID time, it
Jenna Gestetner (14:22):
seems
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:22):
like.
Yeah, exactly.
Jenna Gestetner (14:22):
And I think part of that actually came from,
there have been studies done on,uh, long COVID and MCAS and some
connections between that.
And I think that probably helpedthe fact that there was being
research done on that to bringmore awareness to Mars cell
conditions.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:37):
Okay.
So despite not meeting thecriteria, what was going on when
you were really young?
That was, that seemed unrelatedand unexplainable.
I mean, it was
Jenna Gestetner (14:45):
just lots of different things the way that we
framed the stuff back then wasvery different because we didn't
have this information.
But now looking back, it was.
You know, having a lot of eczemaand, and having very sensitive
skin, having a very sensitivestomach.
Um, always reacting weirdly tothings.
When I was a baby, I couldn'ttolerate anything at all.
(15:05):
Um, having constant earinfections, always getting sick,
like all these, just thingsthat, that just really made me
get labeled as like sensitive,But it was never a big problem.
It was never severe enough.
And that's the thing that Ialways say, and I think this is
a very hard place for people tobe in.
Um, and I have a lot of empathyfor people who are in this place
(15:26):
where, and this, I stillexperience this.
Sometimes it's, you know.
The problem's bad enough thatsomething should be done and
that it significantly impactsyour life.
But it's not bad enough thatanybody feels they have to do
anything.
It's not bad enough that I'm inthe hospital, it's not bad
enough that if they don't dosomething, I'm gonna, have a
terrible thing happen, but it'sbad enough that if they don't do
(15:49):
something, my quality of life'sgonna decrease.
And I think that's a really hardplace to be in because
rightfully so, like doctors,they, they don't have the time
or the experience necessarily tofix everything.
But when there's a big pressureon them and something has to be
done, they're more likely to doit than just not really knowing
what to do.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (16:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You fell through the cracks fora long time.
Did did things also get worse atsome point when you were older?
Jenna Gestetner (16:15):
Yes.
When I was around 12 or 13,things got a lot worse.
Before I could basically eatevery food with some tiny
exceptions, that's when, everymonth, every couple of months, I
would suddenly not be able toeat a bunch of foods.
And at that point it didn't makesense.
I was like, well, what do youmean?
Like, I could eat that food afew days ago.
Now I can't.
Now we know.
That's why in hindsightexplaining this is very
(16:36):
different than when I wasexperiencing it and how I
would've described it.
But, um, MCAS can, the baselineof the condition can level up,
and get permanently worse inresponse to stress on your
immune system, whether that'sphysical or psychological
stress.
So I can actually pinpointspecific times in my life that
were physically orpsychologically stressful and
(16:58):
correlate that with.
Suddenly starting to react to awhole new group of foods.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:03):
Was it hard to track it down?
Was it really clear andimmediate when you would start
reacting to a new food that thatwas
Jenna Gestetner (17:08):
called?
No.
Sometimes it was really hard,and I think that was the mental
burden of that was hard as well,because.
I would be like, there'ssomething doing this to me.
I'd suddenly realized there'ssomething doing this to me, and
then I'd realize that this hadhad actually been happening for
months and I hadn't reallyrealized, or I'd considered it
my new baseline, to realize thatit's not normal to have
headaches every day to realizethat it's not normal to have
(17:28):
stomach aches every day, torealize that, all these
different things and things thatI didn't even realize, like how
bad my anxiety and my OCD was.
W actually related to some ofthat, right?
Like now that I don't have that,and a lot of that had to do with
this like downstream effect ofMast cells activating,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:48):
I was gonna say all that.
Oh my gosh.
All that histamine in the bodybecause so many things that feel
like anxiety, what we callanxiety.
It's really a physiologicalresponse.
Who was the miracle doctor whofinally was able to help you
have a name for what was goingon?
Jenna Gestetner (18:02):
There were a lot of.
Doctors in the mix.
I had seen so many allergistsbecause I, thought that was like
the way to go.
Around that time I'd heard aboutMast cell conditions and so I
was sort of pursuing that in away.
But I had been shut down so manytimes and I definitely was very
discouraged and my pediatrician,who I had really trusted, and
(18:25):
she's an amazing doctor and.
I came to her one day and, andtold her that I truly felt like
my intuition.
I knew that all of this wasconnected.
Um, and she basically said tome, she turned around and went,
you know, Jenna, you'll neverfind an answer that explains
everything.
And she said that point blank tome.
And that was one of the mostshocking things I had heard,
(18:45):
because I had never expected herto say that.
And that definitely discouragedme.
And it wasn't until I saw, Thisgastroenterologist I was just
seeing him for general things.
It was not to diagnose thisproblem because I didn't think
there was a problem at thatpoint.
I'd been, you know, told thatthat wasn't the case.
And from the moment that Istepped into his office, I knew
(19:08):
that experience was going to bedifferent from a lot of the
other doctors.
I'd been seeing, a lot of theallergists I'd been seeing.
He asked me questions like, whatdo you think it is?
What tests do you want me to do?
And really let me lead the, theinteraction and the experience,
and that made me comfortableenough to, at the end of the
(19:31):
appointment, this thing came upinto my head or this thing that
had happened, and it was likeirrelevant.
Like it felt irrelevant, butsomething in me was telling me
to tell.
So I told him, and it was thisthing of where I went for a walk
in the morning and I had gottenhives and I'd gone to my doctor,
'cause it was during COVID.
So my mom wanted to make surethere wasn't anything wrong.
She mentioned that sometimes shesees kids get in and usually it
(19:54):
just happens once, never happensagain.
And it's a process in your bodycalled mastocytosis when the
mast cells released histamine.
And so I went home and as I did,I googled what mastocytosis was.
And, you know, I saw thatmastocytosis is yes, a process
in the body, but it's also acondition.
And I read about it, but I knewI didn't have that.
And so I never thought about itagain.
(20:16):
But then when I had said that tohim, to this new doctor, I said
to him, you know, this thinghappened.
It's unrelated.
And he's like, no, no, no.
I want, I want to hear.
And we were actually about towalk out of his office and he,
he went and sat back downbecause he, he wanted to listen
to me.
So I told him this and he, andas soon as I said the word
mastocytosis, I saw a light bulbgo off in his head and he turned
around to his assistant and hesaid, can we order one more
(20:39):
test?
And he asked if that was okay.
He asked permission, he said, isit okay if I order one more
test?
And he explained why.
He said, there's this conditioncalled Mast cell activation
syndrome.
And it sounds like a lot of thethings that I'm saying could
align with that.
And he warned me that it's rareand that.
Even with people who know theyhave MCAS, sometimes the test
doesn't even come back positive.
(20:59):
But he was like, I just won'torder this.
Like we're already ordering allthese other tests, might as
well.
Long story short, it came backpositive and I found he was
like, look, I am not an expert.
I can't diagnose you with it,but I think this is a really
good start.
And if it wasn't for him, Iwould've never.
Found a doctor who coulddiagnose me.
During COVID I found an MCASspecialist, which at the time
(21:20):
was very difficult.
Now there are a lot more people.
At the time I found two, one inla, one in on the east coast,
and the LA one had like a ninemonth wait.
So yes, I did end up flying,flying to New York in the middle
of COVID.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (21:33):
It was probably worth it though, to get
some answers finally, after yourwhole life of wondering.
So I follow you on Instagram.
I'm too old.
I'm not an Instagram person.
I wanna sit down and like talkabout the whole thing.
So people will see a lot of thisin your content, but can you
just describe to us day-to-daylife now that you know what
you're dealing with, how wellmanaged is it, and what do you
have to do to stay feeling ashealthy and well as you can?
Jenna Gestetner (21:56):
I think in the past year I've really realized
how much of an impact your mindand your psychological, mental,
and emotional health has on yourphysical health, especially with
stress.
I've always known that I've hadanxiety, and I think that
anxiety gave me this sense ofcontrol that I really needed,
(22:18):
and that sense of control is theonly thing that I felt was
keeping me safe.
And it made my life very, well,I, I felt like it was very good,
but it made my life very, what'sthe word?
I mean, look, I probablywould've said consistent, but
(22:39):
now looking back, I wouldn't usethe word consistent, I said no
to a lot of things, especiallyin college.
I said no to a lot of things.
I felt like I couldn't do a lotof things.
I kept myself very shelteredbecause I was worried that
anything I did outside of mydaily routine could be a risk.
And not only did I feel like itcould be a risk, but the mental
burden of trying to figure out,like say I did do something
(22:59):
different out of my routine andthen.
Something happened, it triggereda symptom or something, then I
would rack my brain and spendall this mental energy trying to
figure out what it was, and thatwas exhausting.
And so I just decided that itwas better not to do things.
And I think over the past yearI've really acknowledged that
(23:21):
there are a lot of experiencesthat I had, especially around
the time where I was havingthese problems and they were
getting worse and I was gettingdiagnosed that I developed these
unhealthy ways of thinking orways of coping, um, that at the
time, like I'm not, and I don'ttry and think of them
negatively.
Like I don't try and, say, oh, Ishouldn't have done that, or I
(23:43):
shouldn't have been that way.
That that is what I needed to doat the time to keep myself safe
and feel like I was safe.
It was a co like that's what acoping mechanism is, right?
Um.
But just realizing that I don'tneed them anymore.
About a year ago I had thismoment, or you know, it was like
over the course of a month, butthese moments of realizing that
I'm in a place now where I don'tneed those anymore.
(24:05):
I don't need those things toprotect me.
And that's not to say that myhealth is so much better.
Like honestly, my health issimilar, maybe even a little bit
worse, but I've realized that.
No matter what my health is at,I can make my life better by
(24:26):
working with my brain andworking with what I have.
Like the example that I alwayslike to use is, I like the
control thing.
I've said this many times.
You wrote 10 down.
I like control.
It is a very natural humanresponse.
It's just to validate that foreverybody.
We all feel better when we havecontrol.
Exactly.
But I realized that I wasgetting very, this was probably
(24:50):
my second year of college.
I realized like how hard it wasfor me that I was constantly
felt like my life was outta mycontrol.
Symptoms were getting worse.
I'd get sick.
I got COVID and I got reallybad, like MCAS flared up, pots
flared up all this.
I felt so out of control, so Irealized.
Okay.
(25:11):
I can't ruminate on trying toget myself that control'cause
I'm not gonna get it.
Like, gotta just surrender that.
I'm not gonna have that.
Okay, so how else can I givemyself control?
So I started developing thesehabits in my life and changing
my lifestyle, like going for awalk every morning.
First thing I do, go for a walk,whether it's one mile or three
miles, whatever I can do, it'ssomething because one that gives
me that sense of control.
(25:31):
It gives me that sense ofroutine, it gives me that sense
of consistency.
Also, I know going for a walk isgonna make me feel good, even if
I wake up not feeling that good.
I know it's the best thing forme.
You know, small things likethat, that I implemented into my
lifestyle, that gave me thatcontrol because I knew I needed
it.
It's like acknowledging that Ineed the control, not trying to
push away the part of me thatneeds that, but doing it in a
way that is actually
Amanda Whitehouse, P (25:52):
realistic.
Right.
Distinguishing what between whatyou can and what you can't
control.
Yeah.
And then controlling the thingsthat you do have influence over
that can have a positive effecton you.
So simple, but it's such astruggle for so many of us
because of course we wannacontrol that uncontrollable
thing.
Right?
Jenna Gestetner (26:08):
Yeah.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (26:08):
Do you think it's the extreme nature of
what you were dealing with thatforced you to realize like,
that's just not gonna happen.
I'm never gonna be able tocontrol this?
Jenna Gestetner (26:16):
Yeah, I think it is..
I would consider myself to be ina pretty good place right now,
and it's really easy to.
Think back and think, well, whydidn't I adopt this mindset
before?
Why didn't I think of thisbefore?
Like, somebody listening, beinglike, okay, well then why can't
I think that way?
I don't think you can just tellsomebody to make these switches.
I think you have to really beready.
That's just how it is.
(26:38):
I think you can put yourself ina position to be ready for that,
but ultimately it's just likethis switch that happens in your
brain.
And I think just being open tothat happening like now, I've
had that a lot more because I'mjust open to it happening., I'm
open to allowing myself tochange my life instantly.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (26:57):
Yes, and that's such a good point.
I can attest to that as apsychologist, obviously sitting
and talking for people for longperiods of time where I can see
that from the outside.
But of course it's socomplicated inside from the
perspective of as a parent, forall the parents listening, you
can't just say this to your kidsor make them listen to Jenna
talk about it here and have itmagically click.
It has to be at the moment whentheir body and brain and
(27:18):
emotions are receptive to it.
So thank you for pointing thatout.
Forcing optimism and positivityand choice on someone is not
effective or really soothing.
Jenna Gestetner (27:28):
I think the mindset shift that's helped me
is like that.
It's a possibility it's not theoption, it's just a possibility.
you can be healed.
What if?
What if it's actually apossibility?
What if it's a possibility thatyou don't have to be afraid of
things?
What if it's a possibility thatin a couple of years I could eat
every food?
What if it's a possibility that.
(27:49):
Even though I got sick a fewweeks ago and now my symptoms
are worse, that tomorrow I couldwake up and those symptoms could
be back to the way it wasbefore.
Like it's, it's not dismissingthe fact that that's my
experience and that it'sfrustrating and that part of my
brain wants to think in thenegative way of like, well now
this is my life.
Like part of me wants to thinkthat way.
And okay, that's fine, but likealso there's a possibility that
(28:11):
that's not the case.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (28:13):
I love that.
I love the way you're describingit to me it has that idea of
like forcing or resisting versusacceptance and then allowing for
two things at once you'retalking about holding space for
both of those at the same time,which is hard, but I think
that's why what you're doing isso effective for you.
Yeah.
I work with a lot of peoplemanaging food allergies, and it
feels hopeless.
(28:34):
It feels terrifying.
They feel very much like it'soverwhelming what's on my plate
in terms of how this affects mylife, or what's different about
me, or what my needs arecompared to other people.
Jenna Gestetner (28:45):
I think there's two parts to it.
There's like the internal partof you and your life, how you
feel about your life, and alsothe people that you surround
yourself with.
I think starting to reallyunderstand yourself.
'cause I truly believe, like ineverything that I do, whether
it's like personal work,everything, communication is the
most important thing.
So I think learning to listen toyourself, learning to understand
(29:09):
like what the symptoms are andalso your emotions, and really
listening to that and reallyhonoring that.
And then also being able tocommunicate that with other
people.
So for me, in my life, thatmeans, um, really listening to
my symptoms and what my body istrying to tell me, and also
listening to how I feel aboutthings, what triggers me, like
(29:29):
maybe understand why it triggersme.
Um.
Because I do think that in thepast, and I'm sure people in my
life probably wouldn't say this,but at least the way that I feel
is like, maybe I wasn't the bestfriend.
Maybe I wasn't the best likedaughter or the best sister
because I was handling, I wasdealing with so much, like yeah,
(29:50):
I was impatient, I was stubborn.
Having.
Empathy for myself in the pastthat I didn't do that because I
was trying to be a bad person ortrying to, um, negatively affect
or impact other people, but thatI was dealing with so much that
I didn't understand and thatother people couldn't understand
and that they couldn'tunderstand because I couldn't
(30:12):
understand and articulate itwith them, and like really
understanding that.
And so now trying to change thatand understanding what's
happening in myself so that Ican communicate that with other
people and.
Hoping that the people aroundme, and I think that it's a
privilege, but also a choice,like surround yourself with
people that do understand thatand even if they don't, are open
(30:34):
to trying to understand that.
Um, because I think it justmakes your life so much better
'cause like you were saying,some people feel hopeless, and
I've definitely had moments ofthat, but it's, again, it's the
possibility.
It's like, okay, well why don'twe just like deal with how we
feel right now.
Deal with what we can do rightnow and do it because there's a
(30:54):
possibility that this might besomething different in the
future.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (30:57):
That's so well said.
Thank you for expressing that.
I love all of it, but one partthat I think doesn't get said
enough is underscoring theimportance, why does it matter
if I pay attention to how I'mfeeling?
Right?
Why is it important for me tounderstand what's going on
within myself, but how can youpossibly express your needs if
you can't understand ityourself?
Jenna Gestetner (31:15):
And how can you expect other people to know what
you need?
If, if they don't, if they don'tknow
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (31:21):
Right.
They're, they can't figure itout for you
Jenna Gestetner (31:23):
if you can't.
Exactly.
I always use the example myfamily has been so amazing now
that we all have thisinformation in, in really like
sort of like rewriting some ofthe things that have happened in
the past and like and trulyproving the sentiment that
people do have, like your bestinterest in mind, and the reason
that they might act a certainway that might make you feel
(31:44):
upset or make you feel like theydon't care is only because
there's some misunderstandinggoing on.
And the example I always use isI used to.
You know, when I was learning todrive like my dad would we, we'd
be going out.
Okay.
Like you drive, right?
Makes sense.
Like parent wants the kid topractice to drive common sense.
But I would always get reallyupset because I didn't want to
drive and I would say, I don'twant to drive.
(32:05):
I don't want to drive.
He is like, well, why don't youwanna drive?
You need to learn to drive'causeI'm tired'cause I'm tired.
Like that's an excuse.
Right?
So that was seen as an excuse.
'cause you're tired.
Well, everyone's tired.
Right.
When really what was happeningwas I had so many of these
chronic symptoms and I genuinelywas so exhausted, so fatigued,
my brain, like brain fog.
I really like felt like Icouldn't drive, but I didn't
(32:27):
know how to express that.
And I also think because I hadhad so many problems that went
unvalidated, that I eveninvalidated them in myself and
thought, well, this isn't aproblem.
Everybody feels this way.
Right?
And now that kind of situationwouldn't happen because.
I have the understanding, whichmeans other people have the
under understanding and that,and it's not, oh, you don't
(32:49):
wanna do something'cause you'retired.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (32:51):
Right, right.
But how would you know if Yeah.
Every doctor you had ever seentold you that's, that's not
what's happening or that's justnormal.
Everybody feels that way.
What, yeah.
Adding to that, what else wouldyou say to parents of kids who
are dealing with somecomplicated stuff like this?
Jenna Gestetner (33:06):
You know, I think about this a lot because I
wanna have kids and I thinkabout like how I would.
You know, approach that.
And I think it's aboutcommunication.
Again, it's like understandingif something's going on that you
don't think is normal, it's, youknow, they're misbehaving or
(33:26):
they're acting outside of whothey usually are.
I think it's really easy to jumpto conclusions, and I think
opening up that language isreally helpful and.
Even if it's not to find theanswer or solve the problem,
it's like, okay, hold on asecond.
(33:46):
You're telling me you're tired,but like, can we take a pause?
Can we, can we understand?
Can you like describe what'shappening?
Can you, can you tell me more?
Like how does this feel?
And I think even if it doesn'tchange the outcome, it took me
so long to develop thatlanguage.
And I think if somebody would'vefacilitated that in myself.
(34:07):
That could have helped medevelop that language because
the first step is withinyourself.
Like the first step was medeveloping that language in
order to communicate to somebodyelse.
And I think sometimes the fearis okay, but what if they like
make it up?
Like what if they're saying theydon't wanna unload the
dishwasher?
And then you go and ask them andthey make up more excuses.
And what I would say to that is,I don't think inherently
(34:31):
children like.
Are trying to make up excuses.
Um, and especially if you openthat language and they genuinely
feel that you care and want tohelp them.
I personally, look, I know I've,I was very well behaved child.
I, I will admit, like I wasalways very well behaved, um,
and my parents had a lot oftrust in me.
(34:52):
So I think some of that stufflike did go with that.
But I think inherently,especially if you start at a
young age.
Then there would be no reason tomake up excuses because they
know that when they needsomething, their needs will be
met.
So when the needs aren't asextreme, they don't feel the
need to like try and getsomething out of it because
(35:14):
there's that balance there,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (35:16):
right?
And they know that you're goingto listen and create the space.
Then they have the room todevelop that safely and then
they develop that trust in youthat you are going to listen and
take it seriously When there issomething up they're trying to
explain and you'll be betterconnected to your kid to know
the difference.
Right.
You've spent enough timelistening to distinguish between
that.
Jenna Gestetner (35:33):
Exactly.
And I think there's this coping,there's this protective
mechanism that I certainly had,and sometimes do still have, but
if you are around people thatwhere you know that your needs
will be met if somethinghappened.
Like I think a lot of peoplethink like worst case scenario,
whether they're aware of it ornot, when you're around people
(35:56):
where you know, if the thisworst case scenario happened
that you would be fully takencare of, you're much more likely
to be open, not only to enjoyingan experience, but also to
giving some of your resources,whether that's time, energy,
mental space, whatever it is.
Because you don't have, youdon't feel like you have to
conserve it all for yourselfjust in case.
(36:18):
And I think that's why a lot oftimes I was very reserved
because I felt like I had toconserve it all in case because
nobody else would be there.
And that obviously wasn't thecase.
Like it wasn't that nobody elsewould be there, but it's that I
felt that because I didn't knowhow to articulate my own needs,
so I didn't have that assurancethat other people would be there
for it.
And I think that's likesomething that we have to
(36:40):
remember.
Whether it's a friend or a childor really anybody really
understanding what that personmight be experiencing and not
just assuming things.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (36:53):
I am sitting here smiling at you as
you're talking because I knowyou've got your plans laid out
and you know what you're good atand you know what you love, but
you'd make a really goodpsychologist, Jenna, if you ever
have any interest or decide tochange gears yeah, you seem like
you just have a natural knackand maybe, maybe that's one of
those unexpected strengths thatyou've developed because you've
spent some time sifting throughall of this,
Jenna Gestetner (37:13):
I do think that that skill has been strengthened
because of all of this.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (37:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's obvious.
I love the way that you'rewording these things, I can tell
already is gonna be a goodepisode, not just for parents to
listen to, but like, Hey, let'ssit down and listen to this one
together.
Let's go for a drive.
I want you to listen to thisgirl, Jenna.
Because it's different when it'scoming from someone like you,
like you said, who, who gets itand has lived it.
Jenna Gestetner (37:34):
And I'll also be the first to admit that it's
hard to be open and communicatewith people.
It can be a very vulnerablething.
And like, I'll even say that.
I think part of the reason myparents and people in my family,
or even my friends or people inmy life have so much of an
understanding now is because ofsome of the work I've done with
social media, whether that'slike they see a video of me
(37:57):
talking about something that Iprobably wouldn't talk straight
to their face about or.
Like on a podcast and they'lllisten to it and they'll say
something and I'm like, wait,did I tell you that?
And they're like, yeah, you saidit on a podcast.
And I'm like, that's crazy thatI like told however many people
could listen to this that, but Iwouldn't tell you.
I just think it's, it'ssometimes it's hard to do that
and it's hard to challenge likebeliefs of a situational beliefs
(38:19):
of what somebody else mightthink or what you might think.
But I can promise that.
It's worth it and if there'slike a bad response to it, then
it's actually worth it becausethen you know that person.
It doesn't have your bestinterest in mind.
Amanda Whitehouse, (38:34):
Absolutely.
Uh, you make a great point too,about the power of indirect
communication.
You know, you're talking aboutlistening and, but sometimes
it's really hard, especially forkids, but for everybody, if
someone just sits down and says,tell me what's going on, how are
you feeling?
Right?
And for you, you found thatindirect way to say it through
some of the social media workthat you're doing, but with,
with kids, to allow them towrite it down to play with kids
(38:55):
indirectly, I think touches onwhat you're saying Letting it
out in a way that feels a littlebit less vulnerable because
Yeah, it's hard to just sit downand pour it all out right to
somebody.
Yeah.
We haven't talked about the POTSpiece of things yet.
Do you mind sharing a little bitabout that piece of
Jenna Gestetner (39:11):
things?
Yeah, so I use the term potsbecause it's what is well known,
but.
I would say that my symptomsmore align with like the general
dysautonomia.
So dysautonomia is like theumbrella term that POTS falls
under.
Um, and for anybody who doesn'tknow, dysautonomia is, the
dysfunction of your autonomicnervous system.
So the autonomic nervous systemcontrols all the things that
(39:34):
happen without you trying, likebreathing, digestion, heart
rate.
All those different things.
And pots is posturalorthostatic, orthostatic
tachycardia syndrome.
So essentially, you know, whenyou go from sitting to standing
or you go from lying down tositting up, your heart rate
tends to, spike much higher thanmost people's and it can cause
(39:54):
an imbalance in your system.
And oftentimes that's due todifferent factors like blood
pressure and, all thesedifferent things.
The way that I see it and whatI've been, I know some people
believe in, different theoriesor, based on different evidence
that they've seen, but how I seeit, is that it's very connected
to MCAS and that, there are Mastcells everywhere, nobody
(40:16):
including in the lining of allyour blood vessels.
And I definitely noticed thatwhen my MCAS flares up, my POTS
symptoms flare up and it'sdirectly correlated.
And that oftentimes an MCASflare up or Mast cell reaction
for me includes OMI symptoms.
And yeah, it definitely affects,a lot of things in my life.
And it affects generally likethe way that I feel, the way
(40:42):
that I live.
It can affect my energy levels.
It also can affect like how Ifeel mentally.
Especially when I feel like yourheart rate, blood pressure, all
these different things arespiking in you having these
like.
Adrenaline spikes and thingsthat can definitely affect like
your emotions and the way thatyou're able to think about
things.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (41:00):
Yeah.
Well, and your body interpretsphysical symptoms as emotions.
So as we talked about before,it's great that there's all this
awareness of depression andanxiety symptoms, but sometimes
a racing heart symptom is aphysical, symptom physical
condition.
And yet our brain will still go,I feel so anxious and uptight.
What's wrong?
And try to search for the mentalexplanation.
Jenna Gestetner (41:20):
Sometimes our brain interprets physical
symptoms as more than that, andI had actually been working out
like every day high intensityworkouts and I felt great.
And it wasn't until somebodysaid something, It made me
question, I was like, what ifthe adrenaline that I get from
working out is sort of giving mea false sense of energy and a
(41:44):
false sense of like wellbeing?
So I stopped working out and thefirst few days were horrible,
felt terrible, and then itstarted to turn around, around
like the second week and Irealized, I think what was
happening was.
My body was so used to havingadrenaline pumping throughout my
body because of all thesereactions and inflammation and
(42:05):
this and all this stuff that washappening that I had never
really given my body a chance tohave a break.
And I took some time off ofworking out.
And when I started to go back toit, I noticed that.
When I would do any kind ofcardio, even like on a, you
know, an elliptical machinewhere it's completely low
(42:26):
impact, you can control like howhigh your heart rate is going by
the speed.
Even when my heart rate wouldstart to go up a little bit, I
would start to have these likeadrenaline, like rushes like
that, you know that feeling whenlike your heart, like your chest
tightens and you feel thatadrenaline and um, and I didn't
like it.
I was like.
I don't like that feeling.
(42:48):
Um, and it's been about sixmonths now, and I'm just
starting to get back into itwith like a real focus on being
very mindful of how my body'sresponding to exercise.
You know, practicing thingslike, uh, the like methodology,
um, that comes from like yogaand a lot of those like.
Eastern medicine practices whereyou only breathe in and out
(43:08):
through your nose and if youhave to take breaths through
your mouth, you know, you knowyou're going too hard to like
focus on not putting stress onmy body.
And that's really helped, butit's also given me like a new
perspective on.
On what like health is and whathealthy things are like.
You think exercise is healthy,cardio is healthy.
But I think when your body hasbeen in this state of like fight
(43:29):
or flight in this state ofconstant stress, you actually
don't even realize it anymorebecause you're so used to it.
And sometimes you need to takethat step back,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (43:38):
right.
And teach your body a new ahealthier normal for you.
Yeah, but that's so hard becausethat is so contrary to, working
out and exercise and push itharder and transform your body.
Right.
And especially I would imaginemore so for someone your age
who's so active on social media,there's so much of that out
there.
Jenna Gestetner (43:58):
Yeah.
I think that's the funny thing,if people ask like, oh, you
create content, what kind ofcontent you create?
You know, I'm not gonna get intothe whole thing.
So I'm just like, oh, I createhealth content.
And they're like, oh, like I'msuch a wellness girly, I love
going to the gym and takingsupplements.
And I'm like.
Yeah, sure.
That's what I, you know, likethat's definitely not what I
talk about.
I think health is so subjective.
Like the idea of healthy issubjective.
(44:19):
Somebody might look at me andsay, you are not healthy.
But I think of myself as healthybecause to me, health isn't not
having health problems.
It's about your lifestyle.
It's about like the things thatyou are doing and how you're
treating your body, notnecessarily like the state of
your body.
Um, like.
I do think some definitions ofhealthy is like the absence of
disease, but I see it as morethe way that you're treating
(44:40):
your body.
Because I would consider myselfto be healthy.
Um, yeah, I have problems withmy health the way that it
functions, but I'm healthy.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (44:48):
What else do you want people to know
about you?
Jenna Gestetner (44:50):
Really everything I do all comes back
down to helping people andhelping them live their best
life and being able to see lifemore positively and approach it
more positively and making themfeel seen.
Whether that means someone elseseeing you or you seeing
yourself the interesting thingabout my life is that I would
(45:13):
say my life is normal, butsomebody else might be like on
earth.
You talking about your life isnot normal.
And I think.
The thing is, I don't center mylife around the conditions I
have.
I don't center my life aroundthe fact that I can only eat 14
foods.
Some people love to say that onsocial media, that that's like
my only personality trait.
And I'm like, well, you know,you wish you knew me in real
(45:34):
life then.
Um, but you know, there's areason I share that online.
But in reality, this isliterally just my life.
Sometimes I forget that like, Imean, I don't forget, I can only
eat 14 foods, but I forget thatthat's like not a normal thing.
Like, I forget that you can justgo to a restaurant and pick
something off the menu.
I forget that you go to thegrocery store and don't buy the
same thing every time.
(45:54):
I honestly forget like this isjust my life.
Like I'm just just living likethis.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (45:59):
Right.
Acceptance like you talked aboutbefore.
Jenna Gestetner (46:01):
Exactly Tell people where they can find you.
So on Instagram, YouTube, andTikTok at Jenna X Health and
anywhere on the internet, Iguess.
Amanda Whitehouse, P (46:12):
Wonderful.
Your mindset and your positivitytricks I think, are gonna
resonate with a lot of people.
So appreciate you so much forbeing here.
I,
Jenna Gestetner (46:20):
I hope so.
And thank you so much for havingme.
I really enjoyed talking to you.
I hope this episode leaves youfeeling as positive as I am
after listening to Jenna Notbecause any of us are denying
our challenges, but because wecan learn how to live in
partnership with our bodies andwhatever is unique about them.
Jenna's ability to focus onpossibility instead of scarcity.
(46:40):
To choose joy without ignoringthe hard parts is such a
powerful reminder that ourmindset shapes so much of our
experience.
I hope you'll take away fromtoday's chat, the idea that
honoring your needs and focusingon what's in your control isn't
giving up.
It's building the foundation forthe life that you want to
choose.
So here are your three actionsteps for following up with this
episode.
Number one, I want you to learnto check in with your body, this
(47:02):
is a really simple routine thatyou can start to pause early in
the day is better.
And notice how your body'sfeeling.
Ask yourself.
What do I need right now?
And pay attention to what arisesin your body and where, and what
it feels like or what thoughtspop into your head, and then
find a way to follow through.
Even if you can't do thatimmediately, if your body is
telling you that it needs rest,hydration, connection, quiet,
(47:25):
solitude, movement, those areall things that you can
acknowledge and then find thetime to do them when you're able
to, even if you can't, right atthat moment.
Number two, if you're notalready following Jenna, You can
find her, as she said at Jenna XHealth.
That's her website and hersocials.
Wish her a happy birthday thereand check out her videos if you
haven't already.
You might find one of my recentfavorites, which she just
(47:46):
recently shared of her making athree layer birthday cake with
her safe foods, which wasamazing.
And number three, I'mcelebrating my birthday with
Jenna here as the summer iswinding down and if you are
finding the podcast helpful, Iappreciate you listening and it
would mean so much to me If youwould rate a review of the show
wherever you get your podcasts,and if you would share it with
(48:08):
somebody who needs it or shareit on your socials, it really
means a lot to me to put thetime in and to see the show
continue to grow and reach moreand more people who are finding
it helpful.
So thank you again forlistening.
It means so much to me and I'mstill basking in the glow of the
first birthday of the show, andall of the growth.
That has happened in the lastyear.
(48:28):
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
I'm Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
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