June 3, 2025 • 48 mins
In Part 2 of our series on dating and intimacy with food allergies, author and mental health professional Sloane Miller joins me to explore the emotional and social dimensions of navigating relationships while managing food allergies.
We delve into the complexities of identity, self-trust, communication, and vulnerability that individuals with food allergies may encounter in romantic contexts. Our conversation also focuses on how parents can proactively prepare their children for these experiences through early empowerment, fostering resilience and self-advocacy.
Please note: This episode contains discussions on mature topics, including dating, intimacy, and emotional well-being in the context of food allergies. These subjects may not be suitable for young children. Listener discretion is advised.
Join us as we consider:
- Emotional challenges and worries about dating with food allergies
- The importance of teaching consent and boundaries from a young age
- Strategies for effective communication about allergies in relationships
- Parental guidance on building children's confidence and preparedness
This episode aims to empower individuals with food allergies to navigate their personal relationships confidently and safely. Whether you're navigating these experiences yourself or guiding your child through them, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice.
To support this discussion, Dr. Whitehouse has created a free handout summarizing the key takeaways from this two-part series. Listeners can request this resource by contacting her through Instagram at @thefoodallergypsychologist or through her website: Connect — Amanda Whitehouse Phd.
You can find Sloane Miller at www.allergicgirl.com and buy her books here: Bookshop.org US including Allergic Girl Guide to Dating a book by Sloane Miller - Bookshop.org US
Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com
Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
-welcome@dramandawhitehouse.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:01):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:23):
Welcome back to Don't Feed TheFear for part two of our
discussion about relationships,dating physical intimacy, and
safely managing our foodallergies.
We were so fortunate to have Dr.
Sicherer on for the firstportion of this discussion to
talk about all of the medicalinformation and research and
professional advice about whatis safe and what can pose a
(00:43):
safety risk for food allergies.
And I'm so appreciative to himfor sharing his recommendations
and modeling how he discussesthat with his patients.
Sloane Miller and I were leftafter that conversation with so
many thoughts about what we feelit's important to discuss a nd
share on the mental health andthe social emotional side of
that conversation.
So Sloane is so gracious withher time, she is back with me
(01:05):
today so that we can continue todiscuss and process this topic.
And I wanna give a little bit ofa longer introduction for Sloane
today.
It's been amazing to get to knowher, and I'm really excited to
share her voice with all of youhere on my podcast because.
She has so much to share withyou.
She talked briefly last timeabout her book Allergic Girl:
Adventures in Living Well WithFood Allergies.
(01:27):
This is one of the first booksthat I read about food
allergies, and it was so helpfulto me in terms of understanding
what life might actually looklike for someone living with
food allergies.
Obviously, the best tips andinsights from someone who's been
living with food allergies herentire life, and Sloane's just a
very insightful Communicativeperson.
Sloan has degrees in both mentalhealth and coaching, she sees
(01:49):
clients and provides differentkinds of support depending on
what their needs are.
She doesn't just work with foodallergies, but of course, I'm
thankful for her voice and herexperience on that topic here
with us today.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (02:00):
So let's get started in talking
about sex and food allergies.
Yeah.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (02:04):
Where has your head been since our
last conversation?
We both had so many questions.
There's a lot that we wanted tosay that wasn't necessarily the
medical end of things, but wejust wanna talk about the how's
and the experience.
It's
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (02:16):
a very complex topic.
There's so much that goes intoit.
Family values, religious values.
Socioeconomic values, access toinformation, access to medical
care, choice, and alsoorientation, sexual orientation.
Right.
(02:36):
If we look at the spectrum ofLGBTQIA plus, which includes
people that are feeling asexual,not sexual polysexual, right?
And the young people.
Are grappling with like, who arethey?
They within this spectrum, theydon't know and they're figuring
(02:57):
it out.
Mazeltov to them, figure it out.
However, like then layer in, oh,exposure to your allergen.
You've been told by yourparents, by media, by doctors
can be harmful.
(03:18):
At the very least, fatal at theworst.
Mm-hmm.
That's what I was thinking of,that.
This is
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (03:24):
very, very complex.
Yeah.
The world is different now, butdo you mind talking about what
it was like to enter into thatphase of life for yourself?
I mean, obviously all of thosefactors don't apply to you in
the same way that we're openingup to the wide range of
experience, but do you mindsharing just what that was like
when you were young?
Um,
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (03:44):
sure.
My childhood, there was noEpiPen.
What I was told by my allergistis, avoid your allergen.
If you have exposure, go to thehospital.
I remembered my first.
My, well, the first, um, myfirst exposure to tree nuts and
anaphylaxis, I remembered when Iwas two.
(04:07):
I had had, um, previous allergicreactions when I was six months
old that I don't remember, but Ido remember the, the 2-year-old
one.
And that really informed myanxiety around exposure to my
allergens.
However, there was noconversation about smooches and
allergens.
Mm-hmm.
So I.
(04:27):
I didn't have that anxiety abouta first kiss.
Um, and I wanna layer in herethat at that time in the
eighties there, the, theAmerican diet was very different
than it is currently in 2025.
Um, we're talking 30, 40 yearsago, right?
(04:52):
Somewhere in that range.
Um, as I've said, there were twotypes of m and ms.
Peanut and plain, and I'm notallergic to peanuts.
So, um, there, there was noalmond milk in the, or cashew
milk in the supermarket.
Uh, you know, maybe there was anut loaf in a vegan restaurant
(05:13):
in San Francisco, but thatwasn't like a common situation.
So kids were not walking aroundwith granola bars studded with
Brazil nuts.
That didn't happen.
They weren't snacking onpistachios during soccer
practice.
None of that was happening.
So there was no, there reallywas no concept of like, I need
(05:36):
to have a conversation with aboy.
And I'm cis head.
So there, so as a, as a woman,um, or as a young girl, I was
not, I was thinking about boysand there was no, they weren't
eating my allergens.
They weren't eating.
Um, you know, I.
They just weren't eating nutsthe way that they are now.
(05:57):
It just, they just weren'tright.
So, um, and actually I was justthinking, I mean, there are
certainly other cultures that,um, do have a lot of nuts in
their foods.
Like if they were, let's sayPersian, let's say, um, anywhere
from like the Middle East and athome, they probably would've had
a lot of nuts.
(06:17):
Um, but even, for example, uh,my best friend, one of my best
friends in, in like junior highwas Venezuelan and she always
had her afterschool snacks.
Were like, were rice puddingmade by hand?
Delicious.
And also, um, empanadas, beefempanadas.
Did I ever ask what was in thebeef empanada?
No.
(06:38):
Did I assume it was just beef?
Yes.
Was it Yes.
So, you know, although I was 13,right?
Eating beef empanadas made byscratch.
Yum, yum, yum.
So, so I think I just wanna likelayer that out there that it
didn't exist, right?
It started to exist in mytwenties and thirties and that
(06:58):
is when I started my blog.
Um, uh, in my thirties because Iwas like, things have changed.
And now I do need to have theseconversations with partners
about like, what are you eating?
And if you eat this and exposeme to it, there will be a
problem.
So.
Very fortunately, my brain isalready formed.
(07:20):
I'm a fully formed adult.
When I, when I, it, there was anecessity to have an adult
conversation about, um, consent,about, uh, who are you?
Who am I?
These are my medical needs.
What's your reaction, you know,to this potential partner.
(07:44):
So, yeah, I mean, in college,again, there were, EpiPens
didn't exist and they were, andonce they did exist in the mid
eighties, they were notprescribed.
So my allergist, every yearthere was no prescription.
So it wasn't until I went in thenineties overseas for college,
(08:07):
part of my college education,and I asked my allergist, and
this is in my book, allergicGirl, but I asked my allergist,
I said.
Should I have an EpiPen?
I had heard about it somehow andI was like, should I have one?
And he was like, yeah, sure.
Couldn't hurt so
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (08:23):
casual.
Why not?
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, so, so in short, I.
I
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (08:30):
had it real good, like I didn't
think about it, but like when itcame to it, I, I, I had other
concerns around sexuality and,um, and, and first kisses and
second kisses and kind of allof, and intimacy.
It wasn't so much impacted by afood allergy question unless
(08:54):
there was a boy I liked and Iwanted to kiss him, and I saw
him eating my allergen.
Which really didn't happen nowthat I think about it, um, until
much later.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (09:06):
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about, if youdon't mind, what that sound
sounded like for you as a fullymature adult trying to enter
into that, and then maybe we cantranslate it down.
You and I both see clients withfood allergies.
We can talk about what we'reseeing with them and what we
tell them, um, how to do that,do those conversations.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (09:24):
Yeah.
I, I, as you were asking it, Iwas just like kind of rolling
through my mental Rolodex oflike, when really did I start
having these conversations and,and I.
Um, when I was sexually activein college, that's when I
started having them.
And they were verystraightforward.
(09:45):
I'm allergic to this, pleasedon't eat that.
Or, I'm gonna be nervous aboutkissing you.
So I didn't even have like, themedical information.
There was, you know, it would bedecades before Dr.
ER's, uh, I think it was 2006,study about saliva, allergens.
A peanut allergen and salivacame out.
Um.
But decades before that, myconversation was, these are my
(10:09):
allergens.
Please don't eat that.
If you eat that, I'm not gonnafeel comfortable.
There might, something mighthappen.
And that was a gut reaction.
And I remember just as you wereasking that, I remember very
specifically having that, um,conversation with my college
boyfriend and he, uh, who, andthis was over in Europe, and he
was like, okay.
(10:30):
It was not a deal at all.
And he, um, I cooked, I alsocook and I'd been cooking, um, I
was a vegetarian starting at 16.
And so my mother at that point,I.
Was like, I don't know what tocook for you.
And I was like, that's a reallygood question.
(10:50):
I'm gonna look it up.
And I read a whole bunch ofbooks, um, about vegetarian
cooking, and I started cookingmore at home and making meals
for the family that were reallyenjoyable.
And so I was doing that incollege as well.
And, um, so that probably alsocut out some anxiety because I
(11:11):
was cooking my own food whenpossible.
Mm-hmm.
And again, this was, there wereno 5 0 4 plans.
There were, um, the colleges.
Said, it's mandatory that youeat our food.
And I was like, uh, no, I'm notgoing to.
There was no dietician oncampus.
There was no one to discuss thiswith other than, you know, the
(11:33):
dean to be like, no, I'm noteating that.
And they're like, sorry, that'sour policy.
And it's like, okay, I'm gonnapay for food.
I'm not eating.
And that's how we handled it,you know, I was like, I'm just
gonna, you know, I, I gothousing with a kitchen.
Um, uh, luckily and.
And I cooked my own food and Ikept a fridge in my room.
I mean, this, again, this wasjust, I just handled it.
(11:56):
Um, and there, because there wasno discussion.
It was just like, okay, the, itwas basically a, a more or less
of a shrug from theadministration.
As long it, it was safe.
I didn't like have a hot platein my room.
Um.
But yes, I did have thatconversation.
So that, and that would be sub25.
(12:16):
So my brain is still forming,but the conversation I had was,
these are my medical needs.
And, um, and the response was,was very positive.
There was no pushback.
There was no, oh, are you sure?
Or are allergies real or.
There was no, there was none ofthat.
(12:38):
Mm-hmm.
And, um, so I also had verypositive experiences.
I didn't have any resistance tothat.
So that was, I, that's aninitial kind of college
experience.
And then after college datingSSA, it was really similar.
(13:01):
I am a direct.
Talker.
It definitely, that's a familyvalue to speak clearly and
directly with clarity.
And I brought that into datingand romantic relationships about
these are my needs.
(13:22):
And it was very well received.
It was, I I, and again, I wroteabout this in my book that in my
years of dating and I starteddating when I was 12, I.
Um, I, I have, there's one guythat I can recall in my thirties
who was a jerk.
One.
(13:45):
It's a lot of dating.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of decades of datingand like, just have like one guy
be a jerk.
Mm-hmm.
So, and again, I'm speaking froma heterosexual perspective as a
woman dating men for the mostpart.
In fact, for 99% of it, I said,these are my medical needs.
(14:07):
Um, uh, please don't eat myallergen or I don't know, you
know, something bad mighthappen.
Right?
That was my gut feeling withouta study.
And boyfriends were like,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:19):
okay.
What do I need to do?
Yeah, I think, you know, we hadthis big, long conversation,
like you said, the, all of thefacts and the science, but
really the, the way you said itis the bottom line.
We shouldn't have to prove, weshouldn't have to come into
these conversations equippedwith the data about how long and
how many hours.
Like as the way you described itthe first time is just, I'm not
gonna be comfortable around youif you're eating this.
(14:42):
And it's, it's not just aboutwhat the science says, it's
about your comfort level and apartner showing you.
Respect for your boundaries thatyou're trying to set with them.
I know you and I both felt likethat's the bigger topic here, is
that this is part of consent.
It's just another layer orfactor of consent that should be
respected as it should in everyother way.
And if that's not happening inrelationships, kind of like the
(15:04):
jerk in your thirties, that's areally good clue.
That's an early sign of a redflag from that person that
they're not respecting theconcept of your consent period.
A hundred percent.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (15:17):
100%.
Yeah.
And I, I think when we talkabout consent and boundaries,
that's where it gets murky for alot of people.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (15:30):
Right?
Sloane Miller, MF (15:30):
Heterosexual, L-G-B-T-Q-I-A, it's, it's not
about gender.
It really is about.
Knowing what your boundariesare, right?
Knowing what you want, or evenhaving an inkling and
communicating that clearly.
And then also being clear aboutwhere is your, uh, where is your
(15:53):
boundary?
Like if that person was like,oh, but a little bit won't hurt,
then what's your response?
Mm-hmm.
Um, if they're like, oh, myparents told me allergies aren't
real, what's your response?
Right.
And.
And, and parents aren't teachingkids that'cause they don't know
it.
I don't think you're a parent.
(16:14):
Have you talked to your, we'realso a very knowledgeable
parent.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (16:18):
People understand now and they might
not understand the nuances of.
I, I wanna feed your child,right?
Like, what can I make when youcome over?
And that'll be safe?
And it used to be, thank you.
We'll bring your, our own food.
I've never had anyone, you know,similar to what you said, I've
never had anyone just beoutright like, oh, allergies
aren't real.
I, I very, very rarely, is itdismissive, doubtful, or, or do
(16:38):
people challenge me about it?
They just.
Need more information.
And yet, like I said, with thekissing conversation, if we
don't give them the specificinformation, well what are,
where are the studies that say,you know, trust me, we see it
happen.
That's all the other answer.
Well, I think that is the food
Sloane Miller, MFA, MS (16:54):
allergic person's fear.
Mm-hmm.
That I just voiced.
Yes.
That the pushback is gonna belike, you're making this up.
This is in your head.
Um, it's not that bad.
Yeah.
And specifically coming from adude to a woman, you're being
hysterical.
The old, you're being hystericalline.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
It it's not that bad.
Yeah.
(17:14):
Um, I see this in my practicewith, uh, parents in a, in a
male female household, aheterosexual household.
The father typically telling themother, you're overreacting to
our child's food allergy needsor the, the food allergy.
Um, uh, you know, usually it'sthe mother who's witnessing
(17:38):
anaphylaxis.
The father doesn't see it andsays, oh, you're overreacting.
And so I think that feardefinitely translates to your
point, how often does it happenin reality?
In my experience, one time outof.
Of dating,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:55):
right.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (17:55):
Of and all kinds of dudes.
These are not like, I just datelike one kind of person blown
over and over.
Like these are different dudes,different countries.
Yeah.
Like these are all kinds ofpeople and it was just one guy
who was, who was kind of jerky.
Um, in my practice, this is thefear that I'm hearing Yes.
Is, is the different kinds ofrejection.
(18:20):
That I will receive if I put myneeds out there.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (18:25):
Yes.
And I think to us as adults,it's so much easier as it is
with everything else, to lookthose scenarios and say, well,
if he says that he's a jerk,don't date him.
We just, we kind of dismiss it.
But that it's such a tender agein terms of any sort of
rejection, any sort ofdifference that makes you stand
out and feel like you don'tbelong.
So I think as adults we reallyneed to.
(18:47):
Try to put ourselves back inthose shoes and remember how
vulnerable that is, becausewe're not wrong.
Don't date that person if theydon't respect your needs and
your boundaries.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (18:56):
That's, that's hindsight and context
that kids do not have.
And it's like, oh, well, butmaybe if I explain it better,
there's a lot again, and this isfrom a, a feminine perspective.
Um.
But there's a lot of like, well,if you know, maybe it was just
that day, maybe they werecranky, that there's like a lot
of excuse making for.
(19:17):
Essentially bad behavior thatshould not be happening.
And as parents, I imagine, andas adults, that's kind of like
to watch a young person makeexcuses for another person's bad
behavior is, and that it goesacross the board.
Mm-hmm.
Across the board about consentand boundaries and any bad
behavior that there should be.
There's no excuse for it, andyou certainly do not excuse
(19:39):
another person on their behalf.
Right.
Do not excuse them.
However that happens also.
Yes, a lot.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (19:46):
Yes.
And it has to be sorted throughby experience like everything
else.
Not just told by an adult.
You and I were talking aboutlearning to drive before we
started chatting here.
And just like that, you, you, Icould tell my kid everything.
Well, the gas pedals here andyou have to turn the wheel like
they have to do it forthemselves in order to learn.
And this is one of those thingsI think we have to be there to
(20:07):
guide them.
We have to create.
An environment where they willtalk to us, because we don't
just shut them down and say, oh,just dump him, you know, oh, oh,
he's a jerk.
Just ignore him.
Then they're gonna stop talkingto us about it instead of, if we
create this environment whereit's open and we are guiding
them and leading them in, intomaking their own decisions and
taking ownership rather thanstill acting at 1418, like they
(20:31):
should just listen to what we'retelling them to do.
They have to have agency overit.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (20:35):
How do you as a parent, as a food
allergy parent and as a mentalhealth professional mm-hmm.
How do you create that?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (20:45):
Yeah.
Well, I.
I don't know about how well I'mdoing as a parent.
You can ask my kids.
'cause it's always so differenttrying to put into action what
you know.
But anytime I talk aboutcommunication with parents and
kids from a young age intoteenage and adult, the two
things I say are everybody needsto learn better listening
skills, particularly when webecome parents.
(21:08):
I don't think we.
Exercise the best listeningskills, but I think that's true
of people in general, right?
We listen to respond.
We want to give advice whenpeople are talking to us about
things, a lot of.
Not helpful.
Listening skills are normal inour society.
I think so.
I, I think everyone everywhereneeds to learn better listening
skills, and I'm guilty of thattoo.
(21:29):
I'm not making fun of everyone.
It's so hard when your kid comesto you and it's like every
little heartbreak for them ismultiplied for you as a parent.
You wanna protect them fromeverything, especially when
they're vulnerable because theyhave food allergies too, and we
have to.
Be open to their experience.
We have to let them express itand make them feel seen and
heard, not solve their problemsfor them.
(21:49):
Which takes me into the secondpart.
There's a book that I recommendfor everyone, all ages.
It's so old.
It's, it's called How to Talk.
So your kids will listen andlisten, so your kids will talk
and I think it should just becalled How to Talk.
So people.
Listen and listen, so peoplewill talk because it's all about
what I was saying before.
It's written in comic stripstyle, demonstrating how we go
(22:12):
into conversations with our ownagenda, taking action, trying to
problem solve, and how much moreeffective it is when we put
people in the driver's seat oftheir own situations.
I'm here to support you.
What do you think?
Let's try that.
And so a lot to me of parentingis that.
Do you want me to help you comeup with some ideas of what you
can try?
(22:33):
What have you thought of?
What, what are some of the ideasyou thought you might do or what
have you thought you might sayback to them?
You know, and, and really justguiding them through teasing it
out and thinking through it.
And then sometimes trying it.
What's easier with like,homework?
Oh, okay, so you didn't do thatreport this time.
You got an F.
What do you think?
We can learn from this and whatmight happen next time.
And then allowing them to carrythat action out and learn it for
(22:56):
themselves.
And that doesn't just teach thespecific skills.
It allows them to step into thedriver's seat of their own life
and feel like they're in charge.
I can make decisions, I canadapt, and this person will be
here to support me and I willturn to them.
'cause they're not just gonnamake me feel like I was wrong or
I don't know anything by the waythat they respond.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (23:16):
I love that so, so much.
And it is so underutilized, asyou said.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we're both trainedlisteners.
Not everyone is a trainedlistener, and even the training
that I had as a licensed socialworker is different than than
(23:40):
that kind of listening.
Um, that kind of listening Ilearned in, uh, currently in,
um, ICF professional coaching,which is more about, um, active
listening and, and social work,listening.
Very different kind oflistening.
Um, but I, I just wannahighlight.
That what you said, and I wannaunderscore it, is at a certain
(24:03):
age, and there are, I'm sure youcould do this from littles all
the way on, um, appropriately,but the, the, and the, the deep
value of saying to a child,let's reason this out together.
What do you think you can dohere?
What would you like to try?
What have you tried?
(24:25):
What do you make of thissituation?
Where would you like to go here?
What works best for you?
I wanna add to that, thechallenge of mistakes when it
comes to a food allergy kid.
And a parent who is watchingthat kid, and the kid
(24:45):
themselves.
And I think that's where this,if we go back to the driving
metaphor.
Right.
Like mistakes, you know, likeour are life and death in a car,
right?
Right.
And that's why you want a lot ofpractice and a lot of practice
in a safe space, right?
(25:06):
Mm-hmm.
A empty parking lot, a driveway,a culdesac, no other moving
cars.
So then you can, you know, youdo not put a kid.
On a major highway and say,okay, merge.
You would never do that.
And I have used this metaphor inmy practice.
I imagine you have to aboutlike, where can you give your
(25:28):
kids safe practice to have amistake?
Mm-hmm.
There will be mistakes.
They have to have mistakes.
They will learn from mistakes.
We all learn from mistakes.
But when you're talking aboutfood allergies and there's a
prospect of fatality.
If it's not a good mistake ornot a learning mistake, like
what happens?
(25:50):
Right.
And I think that's whereeveryone kind
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (25:52):
of gets really shut down.
Yes.
And then I think avoids, andthen to use the driving analogy,
we're not really dealing untilthree or four days before the
16th birthday rather thanthrough across time.
Because in addition to graduallyincreasing the severity or the,
or the challenge of thesituation.
It's over time.
(26:13):
Right?
It's, it's, yes.
Little, little, little stepsover time.
Yes.
You mentioned practicing in acar when you were 14.
By the time you got to thatpoint where you were actually
behind the wheel, you werecomfortable in the car and I
think to Yes.
We're really gonna ringeverything out of this analogy
that we can.
That's true too.
This doesn't start when, youknow, like, I've got a
13-year-old, but we've beentalking about this and he's been
(26:34):
rolling his eyes and not wantingto hear about it for years now,
and it's.
Other similar situations thataren't necessarily about
kissing, but it's about how dofriends respond.
All the things you're sayingabout mm-hmm.
Gradual practice with where thestakes are a little bit lower.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (26:50):
Yes.
And, and parents have to allowfor that.
Mm-hmm.
And kids want that.
They wanna show mastery.
They don't wanna have mistakes.
However, we as adults know thatthey're going to have to have
some to be like, okay, that'sthe wrong path to go down.
Let me try this.
And that includes emotionally,yes, I wanna date this person,
(27:11):
they're a jerk.
I wanna see if I can fix them.
Right?
And then they need to try andfix them.
And then they need to see thatthat jerk is eating their
allergen and then like coming upto kiss them.
And they need to practice thatboundary and either let
themselves be kissed.
And see what happens.
And that's where the parents',you know, role and job is to
(27:33):
make sure their kids understandtheir food allergy diagnosis.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (27:37):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (27:39):
Have access to their medication.
Yes.
Know where it is, have access toa parent guardian, um, so they
can coordinate if and when.
Yes.
Have an open line ofcommunication if there's a
mistake, so they don't feelembarrassed and, and shut
themselves in a bathroom.
(27:59):
Right.
Which is also a very naturalresponse by the by.
Yeah.
So I mean, there are so manylayers of, of kind of pre-work.
Yes, yes.
Uh, there was a reallyinteresting study maybe 10 years
ago about the transfer ofresponsibilities.
And it was asking allergistswhen did they think that should
(28:21):
start?
Mm-hmm.
And essentially it was like byages 13, which is Dr.
What?
Dr.
Si mentioned.
Yeah.
The expectation is that kids arecarrying their own medication.
Now, I have to tell you, manykids in my practice, and many
parents are still carrying themedication for their children
into high school.
(28:42):
What is the message that sendsto the child?
Yeah.
So where does personalresponsibility start?
When does that come in?
Obviously every family isdifferent, every child is
different, however.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (28:57):
There are choices to be made.
When are you going to start totransfer responsibilities?
Emotional, physical, medical, toYes.
Your child, who is the one whois managing their health and
their chronic condition ofatopic disease.
Right?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (29:13):
Every day.
Right.
And I always tell the parentsthat I'm working with, we have
to always be in the moment andkeep our child safe now and have
our eyes forward on the goal,which is for them to be you,
right?
This fully, obviouslyindependent, full life adult.
The goal is not for us to beprotecting them forever.
And you mentioned a word that Ilove to use when I talk about
(29:35):
this is the, is the layers.
When we say transfer ofresponsibility, it's not this
one big package that we handover to them.
There are many, many, many, manylayers.
People will talk about the Swisscheese analogy.
There are going to be holes ineach layer, but if we have
multiple ones, then there isprotection.
And layer one might be the waythat I did it was we just have
the epinephrine hanging by theback door, and my son had his
(29:58):
own pouch that was kind of kidfriendly for him to grab and put
in the backpack.
I was still carrying it, but hewould grab it and put it in the
backpack.
Little did he know I already hadone in there.
Right.
That's the layer.
But he's, he's learning to grabit.
I don't just.
Trust that he's going to do itright.
So then that's one layer thatgets transferred over really
young.
And then, you know, there areother layers, layer after layer,
(30:21):
like you said, safe adultswherever they go.
Forms of communication.
You talked about hiding in thebathroom.
That's another layer that I'vedone with my son.
Like I don't ever want you to beembarrassed to speak up to
anyone around you if you needhelp.
And I know there will be timesthat it will be hard to, and we
do that.
Safety signal For us, it's, it'sa just a little emoji that we've
agreed.
(30:41):
If I ever send you this, itmeans come and get me right now,
no questions asked.
Right.
And I will take the burden asthe parent without you having to
make an excuse to removeyourself from the situation.
It's just another layer that,and another tool that I can
provide to him to help him.
Like you said, take theresponsibility.
Yes.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (30:57):
Well said.
I was, uh, I was also thinking,as I was actively listening, I
was also thinking about transferof responsibilities and that.
At kindergarten, age four, I wascarrying my inhaler in school.
Now again, there, EpiPens didn'texist yet.
Mm-hmm.
Epinephrine existed.
Let me just clarify.
Epinephrine is a very, very olddrug, world War ii, epinephrine
(31:22):
as the emergency drug foranaphylaxis that has existed.
It was an autoinjector thathadn't.
Been created yet until, right.
It was a vi and syringe before,right?
Correct.
Until it was called.
Yeah.
Um, but Right.
But now you can inject yourself.
So, um, but I had asthmastarting at four and I was in
(31:43):
kindergarten at age four.
And, um, I have very distinctmemories of carrying my inhaler
because I had asthma.
During the day, like, you know,they would run us around in gym
class and I would've an asthmaattack, like, and it was just
very normal and I would justtake my inhaler and, you know,
and move on.
Um, however, what I was thinkingof is that I already as a
(32:06):
4-year-old had responsivemedical responsibilities to
myself and had to know when touse this and so.
You know, just, just to, just tolayer that in in terms of my own
trajectory and kind of layeringin.
Bringing other medicationsaround the world with me was
(32:29):
like not a big deal.
'cause I had already beencarrying my inhaler since and
using it.
Mm-hmm.
And knowing the signs of anasthma attack from a very, very
young age.
So there was like already a lothappening.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (32:41):
You just reminded me of something that's
so important.
I know a lot of kids who carryand teenagers who carry their
medication, but they still callmom if they think they might
need to use it.
They don't feel confident indeciding these are the symptoms.
I know my body needs this.
So I think that's another layerthat's important to think about
is actually, yeah, that isinteresting.
Do you see that with yourclients?
(33:01):
Yeah,
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (33:02):
I'm, I'm trying to think.
I was like, did I even go to thenurse's office?
I'm sure I went to the nurse'soffice at some point.
I mean, like, I was veryfriendly with the nurse.
She was lovely.
Like I was one of those kidsthat like absolutely hung out in
the nurse's office.
Um, but I was certainlyempowered to take my inhaler.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (33:20):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (33:22):
And let's look at that word.
I was empowered to take myinhaler so.
You know, how do you as a parentempower your child to trust
their own body to know whenthey're having a reaction?
Right?
Because calling your parentswhen you're having a reaction,
that is time, right?
(33:43):
What if you can't, what if youcan't reach them?
Right?
First of all, also, no cellphones existed.
Like, let's, let's also knockthis out.
So I had to physically go toanother building.
Um, I grew up in the city, wentto school in the city.
I had the nurse was in onelocation.
There were two buildings where,where my school was housed and
the nurse was in the lowerschool.
So, you know, if I was in gym inthe upper school, I would have
(34:04):
to, with my asthma attack, likego to the nurse's, talk to the
nurse's office, which is crazy.
Um, and then like, get carethere, right.
Um.
I, but I, I'm just thinking nowabout like, yeah.
I, I, I, I think that is a, suchan important layer for a child
to know and feel empowered tomedicate themselves and also
(34:28):
know that there's no downside.
There's no downside to takingextra epinephrine.
There's no downside to taking aninhaler.
There's no downside.
And I'm not a doctor.
Speak to your allergist or yourpediatrician.
Uh, but there's, these are notaddictive drugs.
They are not, if you don't havethe thing, they're not gonna do
anything to you.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (34:49):
Right.
But there still is, and I thinkmaybe that's another one of the
layers to work on that reallyrelates to this, but there is
still is this fear around usingepinephrine.
I'm hoping that the needle freeoptions are going to shift this,
but people do hesitate to useit.
They don't wanna have to use it,but obviously they're so safe.
I think that's another thingthat has to shift, and it starts
really, really young.
(35:09):
To everyone have this idea ofthat epinephrine is your best
friend.
Absolutely.
Just go to it.
Epi first, epi fast, always.
And not to be afraid of it.
Find security in it and knowthat I have it.
I can use it whenever I want.
It's okay if I use it and itturns out maybe I didn't need
it.
It's better to do that.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (35:30):
I wanna layer in denial.
Yes.
So I am a hundred percent.
Guilty of this?
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
Guilty is not the right word.
However, this has certainlyhappened to me where I'm in the
middle of an allergic responseand I'm like, is this really
happening?
(35:53):
I can see it.
I can feel it.
There's still like, is this whatit, I think it is?
Is this progressing?
Like, and I know.
As, uh, because I was a childgrowing up with this, that I had
many of those experiences whereI'm having deep conversations
(36:14):
with myself about what ishappening to my body right now,
and there's a lot of denial thatcomes into play.
Yeah.
Uh, so I wanna put that outthere as, as a barrier to
treatment.
To self-treating.
And that also might be why, youknow, kids are, are told, call
(36:34):
your parents to kind of checkin.
Or they think they need to checkin, um, because they're not
quite, you know, or this, I sawthis.
I can't tell you how many timesin my practice children don't
recall the first anaphylacticexperience.
They've been told about it, butthey don't actually have a
memory of it.
Right.
Or.
(36:56):
It happened through testing andthey haven't had a direct
experience.
So there's either some disbeliefor denial that it's real or
there's no memory of it, so it'sdoesn't seem real.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Again, because my firstanaphylactic experience that I
remember was at two.
That was a very traumaticexperience and I carried that
(37:18):
forward.
So I was very like, oh, don'twanna do that again.
And I remember very distinctlywhat happened, um, including
going to the hospital.
Like it was not fun.
So I'm fine.
Thank you.
Um, but I think for a lot ofkids.
Of this, the last, like say twogenerations, a lot of them
either didn't remember a directexperience or it was through
(37:40):
testing and they hadn't had adirect experience.
So they were told by parentsthat this is what needs to
happen.
And so there is a layer ofcommunication, disbelief,
denial.
Do I need this?
Is it happening?
Do I, you know, so there'sright.
I wanted to just bring that up.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (37:59):
I, I appreciate it.
I think it's a great point.
How do you get yourself throughit?
How do you move through thedenial when it's happening?
So
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (38:08):
I
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:08):
check
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (38:09):
in with my
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:09):
safe
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (38:10):
people.
Mm-hmm.
Do you see hives?
I feel like I see hives, juicyhives.
Um.
I can call a doctor if I needto.
I mean, I think I medicate.
I, that's, that's the, that'sthe thing.
I mean, ultimately I medicate.
Mm-hmm.
(38:30):
Um, and there are layers ofmedication too.
So for asthma, I take theinhaler.
Like there's, like, if I'mhaving even like a little, like
a, even asthma shows up inmultiple different ways and this
get into too long of aconversation.
But asthma I treat.
Allergy depends.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:51):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (38:51):
Because like if it's a little itchy eye
and it's like, you know, I don'tknow, a Polly day, I'm like, uh,
do I do, do I wanna take anantihistamine and be kind of
sleepy?
Eh, it's localized.
It's not going anywhere.
Right.
Um, it, if I believe I've hadexposure to my allergen and I've
ingested it, right.
(39:12):
And I think I'm having some kindof response.
I do a whole like body systemscheck.
And, um, fortunately, usually ithasn't been anaphylaxis when it
has been.
I'm at the hospital immediatelyand um, and they've injected me
with epinephrine and all thegood drugs.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (39:33):
Did I answer your question?
You did.
And it's making me,'cause I wasthinking about, I feel that too,
as a parent, what do I do?
You have internalized.
Through so many years ofexperience, what I think a lot
of us do, I keep our two systemshandout in physically in
everywhere the epinephrine isstored because even though I
know that in my head I'm not inmy child's body like you are
(39:54):
feeling it, but I.
I need in that moment of denial,when the adrenaline kicks in, I
pull that out.
And if I can point here andpoint here, okay, we've got
skin, we've got, yeah, twosystems done, two systems done.
And if I have a physicalreminder in front of me, it's a
little bit easier.
That is another tool to empower.
You don't need to call me andask me if you're not sure.
(40:14):
Pull out the sheet and look atit and you know, you know what
you're feeling in your body,right?
So, like you said, to learn togo through that decision making
process yourself and to givekids tools to do it without us
there.
Seems like a good approach.
I'm gonna add two
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (40:28):
more layers to that.
So I print mine out and it's onmy fridge.
Great.
Um, and I go through it with mydoctor every year, just like,
has anything changed?
Right.
You know, changed my entirelifetime.
But just curious, has itpossibly changed?
Um, I also share it with friendsand family as an adult.
(40:50):
My friends and family know whatto look for.
Or if I come in and I'm like,I'm in distress, do you hear
this?
Are you seeing this?
You know, and they're like, yep.
And I'm like, okay.
And it's like just a very clear,um, uh, and safe people.
So I talk about this in my bookand what I've done is I have
(41:12):
created around me safecommunity.
And by safe I mean emotionallysafe, right?
I.
So parents, partner, bestfriends, doctors who I can ask
questions that, this might be asilly question, right?
I can ask the doctor and belike, what do you think about
(41:32):
this?
Like, where do you stand onthis?
I can say to.
Any of my safe emotional people.
I, I feel like I'm having someanxiety around this, but also
like, I feel like I might besymptomatic.
Can we just sit for a minutewhile I do a systems check and
like see what happened?
I don't think I had exposure toanything.
(41:52):
This could be anxiety, it couldbe unknown exposure.
Can we just sit together?
And the answer is yes.
And I have talked with thesepeople ahead of time.
This isn't like in the moment.
This is.
Uh, you create a safe person byhaving these conversations when
you are not having an emergencyabout what to do in case of an
emergency, both physically,medically, and emotionally.
(42:17):
And I.
I talk about with my clients,um, depending on the age, either
creating safe community aroundthem or identifying safe
community.
If, uh, if I'm talking withsomeone in their twenties and
thirties, we'll talk about whoin your life is emotionally safe
for you to talk about youranxiety with, but also if you're
(42:37):
having anaphylaxis and you needa buddy, like who is that
person?
If you don't have a person,let's talk about creating one
and then with Littles, um, andLittles being any age that has a
friend group talking about howdo you identify safe people?
Mm-hmm.
Um, how, how do you know thatthey're safe?
(42:58):
How do you feel inside whenyou're with them?
How do you wanna be treated?
How do they treat you?
What do you say?
What do you actually need fromthem?
This is gonna be my final pointhere is knowing and
understanding your medicaldiagnosis is first and foremost
(43:19):
you need to understand it.
You are the one that's managingit for the rest of your life.
Mm-hmm.
What you're looking for issupport.
Don't need someone else to, Imean, maybe you would like
someone else to give you theEpiPen, however you are fully
capable of doing it.
And it is.
I had a, a client who at age.
Let's see, how old was she?
Maybe she was like 13 or 14.
(43:40):
And she was going to her firstschool dance, and this was like
the first kind of away homesituation where there was gonna
be food or allergens might bethere.
Her friends were gonna be there.
And we talked through kind ofall of the safety protocols that
she had in place.
And at the end of our safetyprotocol discussion, she said,
it's okay.
I have my own bath.
(44:02):
And that is, I get chills everytime I think about that.
That is what I want for peoplewith food allergies to
understand and to fully believeand fully enact that you have
your own back, both emotionally,physically, in intimate
(44:23):
situations, in work situations,uh, emotionally and medically.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (44:30):
That's perfectly said.
We could talk about it for hoursand, and most of it, what we're
finding, which wasn't even ourplan, is everything that's
specific to this conversationabout intimacy and relationships
and, and physicality and foodallergy safety really is about
these bigger picture conceptsthat we're talking about that
goes so deep and that the endresult isn't just to.
(44:53):
Have a boyfriend or have aspouse, right.
It's about what you just said.
It's about my identity as aperson.
Do I have my back?
Do I know who I am and how tohandle myself?
And then obviously relationshipsare an important part of that.
We talked about teens trying tosort that out.
That's an importantdevelopmental stage.
It's not just about if they canhave a boyfriend or a
girlfriend.
(45:13):
It's about that process that'songoing of sorting through who
am I and developing an identityas a person.
Yes.
The
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (45:25):
bigger statement is about having your
own back and that knowing thatyou trust yourself to, make the
best decisions with theinformation that you have at the
time, that if something doeshappen, you know how to handle
it, whether it is an, anemotional exchange.
Mm-hmm.
An intimacy exchange, a medicalexchange, an accidental
(45:48):
exposure.
That you have the tools or knowwhere you can get the tools in
order to make the best decisionthat you can at the time.
So having your own back I thinkis just a great overall thought
to leave with.
Perfect.
(46:08):
That's what, that's what I wouldwant for my clients.
From littles all the way up toadults who are coping with food
allergies to understand thatthey have their own back.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (46:17):
Great.
That's perfect.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to talk about this.
I love where the conversationtook us that we didn't
necessarily plan out.
Thank
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (46:26):
you.
I, it was really interesting towalk down memory lane.
I hadn't thought about it in awhile about how many.
Aspects of my childhood lead to,you know, young adulthood and
all the different pieces andlayers of me and, and medical me
that added up to, um, a certain,a certain point.
(46:48):
And so that's a, that was a funone
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (46:51):
memory lead for me.
I appreciate you being willingto share it with us is helpful.
Of course.
Thank you.
Thank you so much again forjoining us for part two of this
conversation.
Thank you so much to my guest,Sloan Miller for your idea and
your correct insight that thisis a really important topic to
be discussing.
Thank you again to Dr.
Sicherer for joining us for partone of this conversation.
(47:12):
I hope that this will be somehelpful information If you want
to keep learning, you can readDr.
Sicherer's book, the CompleteGuide to Food Allergies in
Adults and Children.
You can read Sloane Miller'smemoir Allergic Girl, and you
can reach out to me for the freeguide that I've created for you
based on this series of talks tohelp you navigate these
conversations and situations.
You can access that by followingme on Instagram at the Food
(47:35):
Allergy Psychologist andmessaging me asking for the free
guide.
Or you can visit my website atthe food allergy
psychologist.com and reach outto me through the contact option
If you are finding this contenthelpful, it would mean so much
to me if you would subscribe andfollow the show.
Give the show a review, andshare it with other people who
might benefit from it too..
I appreciate you listening, andwe will talk again soon.
(47:58):
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:23):
Welcome back to Don't Feed TheFear for part two of our
discussion about relationships,dating physical intimacy, and
safely managing our foodallergies.
We were so fortunate to have Dr.
Sicherer on for the firstportion of this discussion to
talk about all of the medicalinformation and research and
professional advice about whatis safe and what can pose a
(00:43):
safety risk for food allergies.
And I'm so appreciative to himfor sharing his recommendations
and modeling how he discussesthat with his patients.
Sloane Miller and I were leftafter that conversation with so
many thoughts about what we feelit's important to discuss a nd
share on the mental health andthe social emotional side of
that conversation.
So Sloane is so gracious withher time, she is back with me
(01:05):
today so that we can continue todiscuss and process this topic.
And I wanna give a little bit ofa longer introduction for Sloane
today.
It's been amazing to get to knowher, and I'm really excited to
share her voice with all of youhere on my podcast because.
She has so much to share withyou.
She talked briefly last timeabout her book Allergic Girl:
Adventures in Living Well WithFood Allergies.
(01:27):
This is one of the first booksthat I read about food
allergies, and it was so helpfulto me in terms of understanding
what life might actually looklike for someone living with
food allergies.
Obviously, the best tips andinsights from someone who's been
living with food allergies herentire life, and Sloane's just a
very insightful Communicativeperson.
Sloan has degrees in both mentalhealth and coaching, she sees
(01:49):
clients and provides differentkinds of support depending on
what their needs are.
She doesn't just work with foodallergies, but of course, I'm
thankful for her voice and herexperience on that topic here
with us today.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (02:00):
So let's get started in talking
about sex and food allergies.
Yeah.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (02:04):
Where has your head been since our
last conversation?
We both had so many questions.
There's a lot that we wanted tosay that wasn't necessarily the
medical end of things, but wejust wanna talk about the how's
and the experience.
It's
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (02:16):
a very complex topic.
There's so much that goes intoit.
Family values, religious values.
Socioeconomic values, access toinformation, access to medical
care, choice, and alsoorientation, sexual orientation.
Right.
(02:36):
If we look at the spectrum ofLGBTQIA plus, which includes
people that are feeling asexual,not sexual polysexual, right?
And the young people.
Are grappling with like, who arethey?
They within this spectrum, theydon't know and they're figuring
(02:57):
it out.
Mazeltov to them, figure it out.
However, like then layer in, oh,exposure to your allergen.
You've been told by yourparents, by media, by doctors
can be harmful.
(03:18):
At the very least, fatal at theworst.
Mm-hmm.
That's what I was thinking of,that.
This is
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (03:24):
very, very complex.
Yeah.
The world is different now, butdo you mind talking about what
it was like to enter into thatphase of life for yourself?
I mean, obviously all of thosefactors don't apply to you in
the same way that we're openingup to the wide range of
experience, but do you mindsharing just what that was like
when you were young?
Um,
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (03:44):
sure.
My childhood, there was noEpiPen.
What I was told by my allergistis, avoid your allergen.
If you have exposure, go to thehospital.
I remembered my first.
My, well, the first, um, myfirst exposure to tree nuts and
anaphylaxis, I remembered when Iwas two.
(04:07):
I had had, um, previous allergicreactions when I was six months
old that I don't remember, but Ido remember the, the 2-year-old
one.
And that really informed myanxiety around exposure to my
allergens.
However, there was noconversation about smooches and
allergens.
Mm-hmm.
So I.
(04:27):
I didn't have that anxiety abouta first kiss.
Um, and I wanna layer in herethat at that time in the
eighties there, the, theAmerican diet was very different
than it is currently in 2025.
Um, we're talking 30, 40 yearsago, right?
(04:52):
Somewhere in that range.
Um, as I've said, there were twotypes of m and ms.
Peanut and plain, and I'm notallergic to peanuts.
So, um, there, there was noalmond milk in the, or cashew
milk in the supermarket.
Uh, you know, maybe there was anut loaf in a vegan restaurant
(05:13):
in San Francisco, but thatwasn't like a common situation.
So kids were not walking aroundwith granola bars studded with
Brazil nuts.
That didn't happen.
They weren't snacking onpistachios during soccer
practice.
None of that was happening.
So there was no, there reallywas no concept of like, I need
(05:36):
to have a conversation with aboy.
And I'm cis head.
So there, so as a, as a woman,um, or as a young girl, I was
not, I was thinking about boysand there was no, they weren't
eating my allergens.
They weren't eating.
Um, you know, I.
They just weren't eating nutsthe way that they are now.
(05:57):
It just, they just weren'tright.
So, um, and actually I was justthinking, I mean, there are
certainly other cultures that,um, do have a lot of nuts in
their foods.
Like if they were, let's sayPersian, let's say, um, anywhere
from like the Middle East and athome, they probably would've had
a lot of nuts.
(06:17):
Um, but even, for example, uh,my best friend, one of my best
friends in, in like junior highwas Venezuelan and she always
had her afterschool snacks.
Were like, were rice puddingmade by hand?
Delicious.
And also, um, empanadas, beefempanadas.
Did I ever ask what was in thebeef empanada?
No.
(06:38):
Did I assume it was just beef?
Yes.
Was it Yes.
So, you know, although I was 13,right?
Eating beef empanadas made byscratch.
Yum, yum, yum.
So, so I think I just wanna likelayer that out there that it
didn't exist, right?
It started to exist in mytwenties and thirties and that
(06:58):
is when I started my blog.
Um, uh, in my thirties because Iwas like, things have changed.
And now I do need to have theseconversations with partners
about like, what are you eating?
And if you eat this and exposeme to it, there will be a
problem.
So.
Very fortunately, my brain isalready formed.
(07:20):
I'm a fully formed adult.
When I, when I, it, there was anecessity to have an adult
conversation about, um, consent,about, uh, who are you?
Who am I?
These are my medical needs.
What's your reaction, you know,to this potential partner.
(07:44):
So, yeah, I mean, in college,again, there were, EpiPens
didn't exist and they were, andonce they did exist in the mid
eighties, they were notprescribed.
So my allergist, every yearthere was no prescription.
So it wasn't until I went in thenineties overseas for college,
(08:07):
part of my college education,and I asked my allergist, and
this is in my book, allergicGirl, but I asked my allergist,
I said.
Should I have an EpiPen?
I had heard about it somehow andI was like, should I have one?
And he was like, yeah, sure.
Couldn't hurt so
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (08:23):
casual.
Why not?
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, so, so in short, I.
I
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (08:30):
had it real good, like I didn't
think about it, but like when itcame to it, I, I, I had other
concerns around sexuality and,um, and, and first kisses and
second kisses and kind of allof, and intimacy.
It wasn't so much impacted by afood allergy question unless
(08:54):
there was a boy I liked and Iwanted to kiss him, and I saw
him eating my allergen.
Which really didn't happen nowthat I think about it, um, until
much later.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (09:06):
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about, if youdon't mind, what that sound
sounded like for you as a fullymature adult trying to enter
into that, and then maybe we cantranslate it down.
You and I both see clients withfood allergies.
We can talk about what we'reseeing with them and what we
tell them, um, how to do that,do those conversations.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (09:24):
Yeah.
I, I, as you were asking it, Iwas just like kind of rolling
through my mental Rolodex oflike, when really did I start
having these conversations and,and I.
Um, when I was sexually activein college, that's when I
started having them.
And they were verystraightforward.
(09:45):
I'm allergic to this, pleasedon't eat that.
Or, I'm gonna be nervous aboutkissing you.
So I didn't even have like, themedical information.
There was, you know, it would bedecades before Dr.
ER's, uh, I think it was 2006,study about saliva, allergens.
A peanut allergen and salivacame out.
Um.
But decades before that, myconversation was, these are my
(10:09):
allergens.
Please don't eat that.
If you eat that, I'm not gonnafeel comfortable.
There might, something mighthappen.
And that was a gut reaction.
And I remember just as you wereasking that, I remember very
specifically having that, um,conversation with my college
boyfriend and he, uh, who, andthis was over in Europe, and he
was like, okay.
(10:30):
It was not a deal at all.
And he, um, I cooked, I alsocook and I'd been cooking, um, I
was a vegetarian starting at 16.
And so my mother at that point,I.
Was like, I don't know what tocook for you.
And I was like, that's a reallygood question.
(10:50):
I'm gonna look it up.
And I read a whole bunch ofbooks, um, about vegetarian
cooking, and I started cookingmore at home and making meals
for the family that were reallyenjoyable.
And so I was doing that incollege as well.
And, um, so that probably alsocut out some anxiety because I
(11:11):
was cooking my own food whenpossible.
Mm-hmm.
And again, this was, there wereno 5 0 4 plans.
There were, um, the colleges.
Said, it's mandatory that youeat our food.
And I was like, uh, no, I'm notgoing to.
There was no dietician oncampus.
There was no one to discuss thiswith other than, you know, the
(11:33):
dean to be like, no, I'm noteating that.
And they're like, sorry, that'sour policy.
And it's like, okay, I'm gonnapay for food.
I'm not eating.
And that's how we handled it,you know, I was like, I'm just
gonna, you know, I, I gothousing with a kitchen.
Um, uh, luckily and.
And I cooked my own food and Ikept a fridge in my room.
I mean, this, again, this wasjust, I just handled it.
(11:56):
Um, and there, because there wasno discussion.
It was just like, okay, the, itwas basically a, a more or less
of a shrug from theadministration.
As long it, it was safe.
I didn't like have a hot platein my room.
Um.
But yes, I did have thatconversation.
So that, and that would be sub25.
(12:16):
So my brain is still forming,but the conversation I had was,
these are my medical needs.
And, um, and the response was,was very positive.
There was no pushback.
There was no, oh, are you sure?
Or are allergies real or.
There was no, there was none ofthat.
(12:38):
Mm-hmm.
And, um, so I also had verypositive experiences.
I didn't have any resistance tothat.
So that was, I, that's aninitial kind of college
experience.
And then after college datingSSA, it was really similar.
(13:01):
I am a direct.
Talker.
It definitely, that's a familyvalue to speak clearly and
directly with clarity.
And I brought that into datingand romantic relationships about
these are my needs.
(13:22):
And it was very well received.
It was, I I, and again, I wroteabout this in my book that in my
years of dating and I starteddating when I was 12, I.
Um, I, I have, there's one guythat I can recall in my thirties
who was a jerk.
One.
(13:45):
It's a lot of dating.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of decades of datingand like, just have like one guy
be a jerk.
Mm-hmm.
So, and again, I'm speaking froma heterosexual perspective as a
woman dating men for the mostpart.
In fact, for 99% of it, I said,these are my medical needs.
(14:07):
Um, uh, please don't eat myallergen or I don't know, you
know, something bad mighthappen.
Right?
That was my gut feeling withouta study.
And boyfriends were like,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (14:19):
okay.
What do I need to do?
Yeah, I think, you know, we hadthis big, long conversation,
like you said, the, all of thefacts and the science, but
really the, the way you said itis the bottom line.
We shouldn't have to prove, weshouldn't have to come into
these conversations equippedwith the data about how long and
how many hours.
Like as the way you described itthe first time is just, I'm not
gonna be comfortable around youif you're eating this.
(14:42):
And it's, it's not just aboutwhat the science says, it's
about your comfort level and apartner showing you.
Respect for your boundaries thatyou're trying to set with them.
I know you and I both felt likethat's the bigger topic here, is
that this is part of consent.
It's just another layer orfactor of consent that should be
respected as it should in everyother way.
And if that's not happening inrelationships, kind of like the
(15:04):
jerk in your thirties, that's areally good clue.
That's an early sign of a redflag from that person that
they're not respecting theconcept of your consent period.
A hundred percent.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (15:17):
100%.
Yeah.
And I, I think when we talkabout consent and boundaries,
that's where it gets murky for alot of people.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (15:30):
Right?
Sloane Miller, MF (15:30):
Heterosexual, L-G-B-T-Q-I-A, it's, it's not
about gender.
It really is about.
Knowing what your boundariesare, right?
Knowing what you want, or evenhaving an inkling and
communicating that clearly.
And then also being clear aboutwhere is your, uh, where is your
(15:53):
boundary?
Like if that person was like,oh, but a little bit won't hurt,
then what's your response?
Mm-hmm.
Um, if they're like, oh, myparents told me allergies aren't
real, what's your response?
Right.
And.
And, and parents aren't teachingkids that'cause they don't know
it.
I don't think you're a parent.
(16:14):
Have you talked to your, we'realso a very knowledgeable
parent.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (16:18):
People understand now and they might
not understand the nuances of.
I, I wanna feed your child,right?
Like, what can I make when youcome over?
And that'll be safe?
And it used to be, thank you.
We'll bring your, our own food.
I've never had anyone, you know,similar to what you said, I've
never had anyone just beoutright like, oh, allergies
aren't real.
I, I very, very rarely, is itdismissive, doubtful, or, or do
(16:38):
people challenge me about it?
They just.
Need more information.
And yet, like I said, with thekissing conversation, if we
don't give them the specificinformation, well what are,
where are the studies that say,you know, trust me, we see it
happen.
That's all the other answer.
Well, I think that is the food
Sloane Miller, MFA, MS (16:54):
allergic person's fear.
Mm-hmm.
That I just voiced.
Yes.
That the pushback is gonna belike, you're making this up.
This is in your head.
Um, it's not that bad.
Yeah.
And specifically coming from adude to a woman, you're being
hysterical.
The old, you're being hystericalline.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
It it's not that bad.
Yeah.
(17:14):
Um, I see this in my practicewith, uh, parents in a, in a
male female household, aheterosexual household.
The father typically telling themother, you're overreacting to
our child's food allergy needsor the, the food allergy.
Um, uh, you know, usually it'sthe mother who's witnessing
(17:38):
anaphylaxis.
The father doesn't see it andsays, oh, you're overreacting.
And so I think that feardefinitely translates to your
point, how often does it happenin reality?
In my experience, one time outof.
Of dating,
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (17:55):
right.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (17:55):
Of and all kinds of dudes.
These are not like, I just datelike one kind of person blown
over and over.
Like these are different dudes,different countries.
Yeah.
Like these are all kinds ofpeople and it was just one guy
who was, who was kind of jerky.
Um, in my practice, this is thefear that I'm hearing Yes.
Is, is the different kinds ofrejection.
(18:20):
That I will receive if I put myneeds out there.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (18:25):
Yes.
And I think to us as adults,it's so much easier as it is
with everything else, to lookthose scenarios and say, well,
if he says that he's a jerk,don't date him.
We just, we kind of dismiss it.
But that it's such a tender agein terms of any sort of
rejection, any sort ofdifference that makes you stand
out and feel like you don'tbelong.
So I think as adults we reallyneed to.
(18:47):
Try to put ourselves back inthose shoes and remember how
vulnerable that is, becausewe're not wrong.
Don't date that person if theydon't respect your needs and
your boundaries.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (18:56):
That's, that's hindsight and context
that kids do not have.
And it's like, oh, well, butmaybe if I explain it better,
there's a lot again, and this isfrom a, a feminine perspective.
Um.
But there's a lot of like, well,if you know, maybe it was just
that day, maybe they werecranky, that there's like a lot
of excuse making for.
(19:17):
Essentially bad behavior thatshould not be happening.
And as parents, I imagine, andas adults, that's kind of like
to watch a young person makeexcuses for another person's bad
behavior is, and that it goesacross the board.
Mm-hmm.
Across the board about consentand boundaries and any bad
behavior that there should be.
There's no excuse for it, andyou certainly do not excuse
(19:39):
another person on their behalf.
Right.
Do not excuse them.
However that happens also.
Yes, a lot.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (19:46):
Yes.
And it has to be sorted throughby experience like everything
else.
Not just told by an adult.
You and I were talking aboutlearning to drive before we
started chatting here.
And just like that, you, you, Icould tell my kid everything.
Well, the gas pedals here andyou have to turn the wheel like
they have to do it forthemselves in order to learn.
And this is one of those thingsI think we have to be there to
(20:07):
guide them.
We have to create.
An environment where they willtalk to us, because we don't
just shut them down and say, oh,just dump him, you know, oh, oh,
he's a jerk.
Just ignore him.
Then they're gonna stop talkingto us about it instead of, if we
create this environment whereit's open and we are guiding
them and leading them in, intomaking their own decisions and
taking ownership rather thanstill acting at 1418, like they
(20:31):
should just listen to what we'retelling them to do.
They have to have agency overit.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (20:35):
How do you as a parent, as a food
allergy parent and as a mentalhealth professional mm-hmm.
How do you create that?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (20:45):
Yeah.
Well, I.
I don't know about how well I'mdoing as a parent.
You can ask my kids.
'cause it's always so differenttrying to put into action what
you know.
But anytime I talk aboutcommunication with parents and
kids from a young age intoteenage and adult, the two
things I say are everybody needsto learn better listening
skills, particularly when webecome parents.
(21:08):
I don't think we.
Exercise the best listeningskills, but I think that's true
of people in general, right?
We listen to respond.
We want to give advice whenpeople are talking to us about
things, a lot of.
Not helpful.
Listening skills are normal inour society.
I think so.
I, I think everyone everywhereneeds to learn better listening
skills, and I'm guilty of thattoo.
(21:29):
I'm not making fun of everyone.
It's so hard when your kid comesto you and it's like every
little heartbreak for them ismultiplied for you as a parent.
You wanna protect them fromeverything, especially when
they're vulnerable because theyhave food allergies too, and we
have to.
Be open to their experience.
We have to let them express itand make them feel seen and
heard, not solve their problemsfor them.
(21:49):
Which takes me into the secondpart.
There's a book that I recommendfor everyone, all ages.
It's so old.
It's, it's called How to Talk.
So your kids will listen andlisten, so your kids will talk
and I think it should just becalled How to Talk.
So people.
Listen and listen, so peoplewill talk because it's all about
what I was saying before.
It's written in comic stripstyle, demonstrating how we go
(22:12):
into conversations with our ownagenda, taking action, trying to
problem solve, and how much moreeffective it is when we put
people in the driver's seat oftheir own situations.
I'm here to support you.
What do you think?
Let's try that.
And so a lot to me of parentingis that.
Do you want me to help you comeup with some ideas of what you
can try?
(22:33):
What have you thought of?
What, what are some of the ideasyou thought you might do or what
have you thought you might sayback to them?
You know, and, and really justguiding them through teasing it
out and thinking through it.
And then sometimes trying it.
What's easier with like,homework?
Oh, okay, so you didn't do thatreport this time.
You got an F.
What do you think?
We can learn from this and whatmight happen next time.
And then allowing them to carrythat action out and learn it for
(22:56):
themselves.
And that doesn't just teach thespecific skills.
It allows them to step into thedriver's seat of their own life
and feel like they're in charge.
I can make decisions, I canadapt, and this person will be
here to support me and I willturn to them.
'cause they're not just gonnamake me feel like I was wrong or
I don't know anything by the waythat they respond.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (23:16):
I love that so, so much.
And it is so underutilized, asyou said.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we're both trainedlisteners.
Not everyone is a trainedlistener, and even the training
that I had as a licensed socialworker is different than than
(23:40):
that kind of listening.
Um, that kind of listening Ilearned in, uh, currently in,
um, ICF professional coaching,which is more about, um, active
listening and, and social work,listening.
Very different kind oflistening.
Um, but I, I just wannahighlight.
That what you said, and I wannaunderscore it, is at a certain
(24:03):
age, and there are, I'm sure youcould do this from littles all
the way on, um, appropriately,but the, the, and the, the deep
value of saying to a child,let's reason this out together.
What do you think you can dohere?
What would you like to try?
What have you tried?
(24:25):
What do you make of thissituation?
Where would you like to go here?
What works best for you?
I wanna add to that, thechallenge of mistakes when it
comes to a food allergy kid.
And a parent who is watchingthat kid, and the kid
(24:45):
themselves.
And I think that's where this,if we go back to the driving
metaphor.
Right.
Like mistakes, you know, likeour are life and death in a car,
right?
Right.
And that's why you want a lot ofpractice and a lot of practice
in a safe space, right?
(25:06):
Mm-hmm.
A empty parking lot, a driveway,a culdesac, no other moving
cars.
So then you can, you know, youdo not put a kid.
On a major highway and say,okay, merge.
You would never do that.
And I have used this metaphor inmy practice.
I imagine you have to aboutlike, where can you give your
(25:28):
kids safe practice to have amistake?
Mm-hmm.
There will be mistakes.
They have to have mistakes.
They will learn from mistakes.
We all learn from mistakes.
But when you're talking aboutfood allergies and there's a
prospect of fatality.
If it's not a good mistake ornot a learning mistake, like
what happens?
(25:50):
Right.
And I think that's whereeveryone kind
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (25:52):
of gets really shut down.
Yes.
And then I think avoids, andthen to use the driving analogy,
we're not really dealing untilthree or four days before the
16th birthday rather thanthrough across time.
Because in addition to graduallyincreasing the severity or the,
or the challenge of thesituation.
It's over time.
(26:13):
Right?
It's, it's, yes.
Little, little, little stepsover time.
Yes.
You mentioned practicing in acar when you were 14.
By the time you got to thatpoint where you were actually
behind the wheel, you werecomfortable in the car and I
think to Yes.
We're really gonna ringeverything out of this analogy
that we can.
That's true too.
This doesn't start when, youknow, like, I've got a
13-year-old, but we've beentalking about this and he's been
(26:34):
rolling his eyes and not wantingto hear about it for years now,
and it's.
Other similar situations thataren't necessarily about
kissing, but it's about how dofriends respond.
All the things you're sayingabout mm-hmm.
Gradual practice with where thestakes are a little bit lower.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (26:50):
Yes.
And, and parents have to allowfor that.
Mm-hmm.
And kids want that.
They wanna show mastery.
They don't wanna have mistakes.
However, we as adults know thatthey're going to have to have
some to be like, okay, that'sthe wrong path to go down.
Let me try this.
And that includes emotionally,yes, I wanna date this person,
(27:11):
they're a jerk.
I wanna see if I can fix them.
Right?
And then they need to try andfix them.
And then they need to see thatthat jerk is eating their
allergen and then like coming upto kiss them.
And they need to practice thatboundary and either let
themselves be kissed.
And see what happens.
And that's where the parents',you know, role and job is to
(27:33):
make sure their kids understandtheir food allergy diagnosis.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (27:37):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (27:39):
Have access to their medication.
Yes.
Know where it is, have access toa parent guardian, um, so they
can coordinate if and when.
Yes.
Have an open line ofcommunication if there's a
mistake, so they don't feelembarrassed and, and shut
themselves in a bathroom.
(27:59):
Right.
Which is also a very naturalresponse by the by.
Yeah.
So I mean, there are so manylayers of, of kind of pre-work.
Yes, yes.
Uh, there was a reallyinteresting study maybe 10 years
ago about the transfer ofresponsibilities.
And it was asking allergistswhen did they think that should
(28:21):
start?
Mm-hmm.
And essentially it was like byages 13, which is Dr.
What?
Dr.
Si mentioned.
Yeah.
The expectation is that kids arecarrying their own medication.
Now, I have to tell you, manykids in my practice, and many
parents are still carrying themedication for their children
into high school.
(28:42):
What is the message that sendsto the child?
Yeah.
So where does personalresponsibility start?
When does that come in?
Obviously every family isdifferent, every child is
different, however.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (28:57):
There are choices to be made.
When are you going to start totransfer responsibilities?
Emotional, physical, medical, toYes.
Your child, who is the one whois managing their health and
their chronic condition ofatopic disease.
Right?
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (29:13):
Every day.
Right.
And I always tell the parentsthat I'm working with, we have
to always be in the moment andkeep our child safe now and have
our eyes forward on the goal,which is for them to be you,
right?
This fully, obviouslyindependent, full life adult.
The goal is not for us to beprotecting them forever.
And you mentioned a word that Ilove to use when I talk about
(29:35):
this is the, is the layers.
When we say transfer ofresponsibility, it's not this
one big package that we handover to them.
There are many, many, many, manylayers.
People will talk about the Swisscheese analogy.
There are going to be holes ineach layer, but if we have
multiple ones, then there isprotection.
And layer one might be the waythat I did it was we just have
the epinephrine hanging by theback door, and my son had his
(29:58):
own pouch that was kind of kidfriendly for him to grab and put
in the backpack.
I was still carrying it, but hewould grab it and put it in the
backpack.
Little did he know I already hadone in there.
Right.
That's the layer.
But he's, he's learning to grabit.
I don't just.
Trust that he's going to do itright.
So then that's one layer thatgets transferred over really
young.
And then, you know, there areother layers, layer after layer,
(30:21):
like you said, safe adultswherever they go.
Forms of communication.
You talked about hiding in thebathroom.
That's another layer that I'vedone with my son.
Like I don't ever want you to beembarrassed to speak up to
anyone around you if you needhelp.
And I know there will be timesthat it will be hard to, and we
do that.
Safety signal For us, it's, it'sa just a little emoji that we've
agreed.
(30:41):
If I ever send you this, itmeans come and get me right now,
no questions asked.
Right.
And I will take the burden asthe parent without you having to
make an excuse to removeyourself from the situation.
It's just another layer that,and another tool that I can
provide to him to help him.
Like you said, take theresponsibility.
Yes.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (30:57):
Well said.
I was, uh, I was also thinking,as I was actively listening, I
was also thinking about transferof responsibilities and that.
At kindergarten, age four, I wascarrying my inhaler in school.
Now again, there, EpiPens didn'texist yet.
Mm-hmm.
Epinephrine existed.
Let me just clarify.
Epinephrine is a very, very olddrug, world War ii, epinephrine
(31:22):
as the emergency drug foranaphylaxis that has existed.
It was an autoinjector thathadn't.
Been created yet until, right.
It was a vi and syringe before,right?
Correct.
Until it was called.
Yeah.
Um, but Right.
But now you can inject yourself.
So, um, but I had asthmastarting at four and I was in
(31:43):
kindergarten at age four.
And, um, I have very distinctmemories of carrying my inhaler
because I had asthma.
During the day, like, you know,they would run us around in gym
class and I would've an asthmaattack, like, and it was just
very normal and I would justtake my inhaler and, you know,
and move on.
Um, however, what I was thinkingof is that I already as a
(32:06):
4-year-old had responsivemedical responsibilities to
myself and had to know when touse this and so.
You know, just, just to, just tolayer that in in terms of my own
trajectory and kind of layeringin.
Bringing other medicationsaround the world with me was
(32:29):
like not a big deal.
'cause I had already beencarrying my inhaler since and
using it.
Mm-hmm.
And knowing the signs of anasthma attack from a very, very
young age.
So there was like already a lothappening.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (32:41):
You just reminded me of something that's
so important.
I know a lot of kids who carryand teenagers who carry their
medication, but they still callmom if they think they might
need to use it.
They don't feel confident indeciding these are the symptoms.
I know my body needs this.
So I think that's another layerthat's important to think about
is actually, yeah, that isinteresting.
Do you see that with yourclients?
(33:01):
Yeah,
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (33:02):
I'm, I'm trying to think.
I was like, did I even go to thenurse's office?
I'm sure I went to the nurse'soffice at some point.
I mean, like, I was veryfriendly with the nurse.
She was lovely.
Like I was one of those kidsthat like absolutely hung out in
the nurse's office.
Um, but I was certainlyempowered to take my inhaler.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (33:20):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LM (33:22):
And let's look at that word.
I was empowered to take myinhaler so.
You know, how do you as a parentempower your child to trust
their own body to know whenthey're having a reaction?
Right?
Because calling your parentswhen you're having a reaction,
that is time, right?
(33:43):
What if you can't, what if youcan't reach them?
Right?
First of all, also, no cellphones existed.
Like, let's, let's also knockthis out.
So I had to physically go toanother building.
Um, I grew up in the city, wentto school in the city.
I had the nurse was in onelocation.
There were two buildings where,where my school was housed and
the nurse was in the lowerschool.
So, you know, if I was in gym inthe upper school, I would have
(34:04):
to, with my asthma attack, likego to the nurse's, talk to the
nurse's office, which is crazy.
Um, and then like, get carethere, right.
Um.
I, but I, I'm just thinking nowabout like, yeah.
I, I, I, I think that is a, suchan important layer for a child
to know and feel empowered tomedicate themselves and also
(34:28):
know that there's no downside.
There's no downside to takingextra epinephrine.
There's no downside to taking aninhaler.
There's no downside.
And I'm not a doctor.
Speak to your allergist or yourpediatrician.
Uh, but there's, these are notaddictive drugs.
They are not, if you don't havethe thing, they're not gonna do
anything to you.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (34:49):
Right.
But there still is, and I thinkmaybe that's another one of the
layers to work on that reallyrelates to this, but there is
still is this fear around usingepinephrine.
I'm hoping that the needle freeoptions are going to shift this,
but people do hesitate to useit.
They don't wanna have to use it,but obviously they're so safe.
I think that's another thingthat has to shift, and it starts
really, really young.
(35:09):
To everyone have this idea ofthat epinephrine is your best
friend.
Absolutely.
Just go to it.
Epi first, epi fast, always.
And not to be afraid of it.
Find security in it and knowthat I have it.
I can use it whenever I want.
It's okay if I use it and itturns out maybe I didn't need
it.
It's better to do that.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (35:30):
I wanna layer in denial.
Yes.
So I am a hundred percent.
Guilty of this?
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
Guilty is not the right word.
However, this has certainlyhappened to me where I'm in the
middle of an allergic responseand I'm like, is this really
happening?
(35:53):
I can see it.
I can feel it.
There's still like, is this whatit, I think it is?
Is this progressing?
Like, and I know.
As, uh, because I was a childgrowing up with this, that I had
many of those experiences whereI'm having deep conversations
(36:14):
with myself about what ishappening to my body right now,
and there's a lot of denial thatcomes into play.
Yeah.
Uh, so I wanna put that outthere as, as a barrier to
treatment.
To self-treating.
And that also might be why, youknow, kids are, are told, call
(36:34):
your parents to kind of checkin.
Or they think they need to checkin, um, because they're not
quite, you know, or this, I sawthis.
I can't tell you how many timesin my practice children don't
recall the first anaphylacticexperience.
They've been told about it, butthey don't actually have a
memory of it.
Right.
Or.
(36:56):
It happened through testing andthey haven't had a direct
experience.
So there's either some disbeliefor denial that it's real or
there's no memory of it, so it'sdoesn't seem real.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Again, because my firstanaphylactic experience that I
remember was at two.
That was a very traumaticexperience and I carried that
(37:18):
forward.
So I was very like, oh, don'twanna do that again.
And I remember very distinctlywhat happened, um, including
going to the hospital.
Like it was not fun.
So I'm fine.
Thank you.
Um, but I think for a lot ofkids.
Of this, the last, like say twogenerations, a lot of them
either didn't remember a directexperience or it was through
(37:40):
testing and they hadn't had adirect experience.
So they were told by parentsthat this is what needs to
happen.
And so there is a layer ofcommunication, disbelief,
denial.
Do I need this?
Is it happening?
Do I, you know, so there'sright.
I wanted to just bring that up.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (37:59):
I, I appreciate it.
I think it's a great point.
How do you get yourself throughit?
How do you move through thedenial when it's happening?
So
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW (38:08):
I
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:08):
check
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMS (38:09):
in with my
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:09):
safe
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (38:10):
people.
Mm-hmm.
Do you see hives?
I feel like I see hives, juicyhives.
Um.
I can call a doctor if I needto.
I mean, I think I medicate.
I, that's, that's the, that'sthe thing.
I mean, ultimately I medicate.
Mm-hmm.
(38:30):
Um, and there are layers ofmedication too.
So for asthma, I take theinhaler.
Like there's, like, if I'mhaving even like a little, like
a, even asthma shows up inmultiple different ways and this
get into too long of aconversation.
But asthma I treat.
Allergy depends.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (38:51):
Mm-hmm.
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW (38:51):
Because like if it's a little itchy eye
and it's like, you know, I don'tknow, a Polly day, I'm like, uh,
do I do, do I wanna take anantihistamine and be kind of
sleepy?
Eh, it's localized.
It's not going anywhere.
Right.
Um, it, if I believe I've hadexposure to my allergen and I've
ingested it, right.
(39:12):
And I think I'm having some kindof response.
I do a whole like body systemscheck.
And, um, fortunately, usually ithasn't been anaphylaxis when it
has been.
I'm at the hospital immediatelyand um, and they've injected me
with epinephrine and all thegood drugs.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (39:33):
Did I answer your question?
You did.
And it's making me,'cause I wasthinking about, I feel that too,
as a parent, what do I do?
You have internalized.
Through so many years ofexperience, what I think a lot
of us do, I keep our two systemshandout in physically in
everywhere the epinephrine isstored because even though I
know that in my head I'm not inmy child's body like you are
(39:54):
feeling it, but I.
I need in that moment of denial,when the adrenaline kicks in, I
pull that out.
And if I can point here andpoint here, okay, we've got
skin, we've got, yeah, twosystems done, two systems done.
And if I have a physicalreminder in front of me, it's a
little bit easier.
That is another tool to empower.
You don't need to call me andask me if you're not sure.
(40:14):
Pull out the sheet and look atit and you know, you know what
you're feeling in your body,right?
So, like you said, to learn togo through that decision making
process yourself and to givekids tools to do it without us
there.
Seems like a good approach.
I'm gonna add two
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (40:28):
more layers to that.
So I print mine out and it's onmy fridge.
Great.
Um, and I go through it with mydoctor every year, just like,
has anything changed?
Right.
You know, changed my entirelifetime.
But just curious, has itpossibly changed?
Um, I also share it with friendsand family as an adult.
(40:50):
My friends and family know whatto look for.
Or if I come in and I'm like,I'm in distress, do you hear
this?
Are you seeing this?
You know, and they're like, yep.
And I'm like, okay.
And it's like just a very clear,um, uh, and safe people.
So I talk about this in my bookand what I've done is I have
(41:12):
created around me safecommunity.
And by safe I mean emotionallysafe, right?
I.
So parents, partner, bestfriends, doctors who I can ask
questions that, this might be asilly question, right?
I can ask the doctor and belike, what do you think about
(41:32):
this?
Like, where do you stand onthis?
I can say to.
Any of my safe emotional people.
I, I feel like I'm having someanxiety around this, but also
like, I feel like I might besymptomatic.
Can we just sit for a minutewhile I do a systems check and
like see what happened?
I don't think I had exposure toanything.
(41:52):
This could be anxiety, it couldbe unknown exposure.
Can we just sit together?
And the answer is yes.
And I have talked with thesepeople ahead of time.
This isn't like in the moment.
This is.
Uh, you create a safe person byhaving these conversations when
you are not having an emergencyabout what to do in case of an
emergency, both physically,medically, and emotionally.
(42:17):
And I.
I talk about with my clients,um, depending on the age, either
creating safe community aroundthem or identifying safe
community.
If, uh, if I'm talking withsomeone in their twenties and
thirties, we'll talk about whoin your life is emotionally safe
for you to talk about youranxiety with, but also if you're
(42:37):
having anaphylaxis and you needa buddy, like who is that
person?
If you don't have a person,let's talk about creating one
and then with Littles, um, andLittles being any age that has a
friend group talking about howdo you identify safe people?
Mm-hmm.
Um, how, how do you know thatthey're safe?
(42:58):
How do you feel inside whenyou're with them?
How do you wanna be treated?
How do they treat you?
What do you say?
What do you actually need fromthem?
This is gonna be my final pointhere is knowing and
understanding your medicaldiagnosis is first and foremost
(43:19):
you need to understand it.
You are the one that's managingit for the rest of your life.
Mm-hmm.
What you're looking for issupport.
Don't need someone else to, Imean, maybe you would like
someone else to give you theEpiPen, however you are fully
capable of doing it.
And it is.
I had a, a client who at age.
Let's see, how old was she?
Maybe she was like 13 or 14.
(43:40):
And she was going to her firstschool dance, and this was like
the first kind of away homesituation where there was gonna
be food or allergens might bethere.
Her friends were gonna be there.
And we talked through kind ofall of the safety protocols that
she had in place.
And at the end of our safetyprotocol discussion, she said,
it's okay.
I have my own bath.
(44:02):
And that is, I get chills everytime I think about that.
That is what I want for peoplewith food allergies to
understand and to fully believeand fully enact that you have
your own back, both emotionally,physically, in intimate
(44:23):
situations, in work situations,uh, emotionally and medically.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (44:30):
That's perfectly said.
We could talk about it for hoursand, and most of it, what we're
finding, which wasn't even ourplan, is everything that's
specific to this conversationabout intimacy and relationships
and, and physicality and foodallergy safety really is about
these bigger picture conceptsthat we're talking about that
goes so deep and that the endresult isn't just to.
(44:53):
Have a boyfriend or have aspouse, right.
It's about what you just said.
It's about my identity as aperson.
Do I have my back?
Do I know who I am and how tohandle myself?
And then obviously relationshipsare an important part of that.
We talked about teens trying tosort that out.
That's an importantdevelopmental stage.
It's not just about if they canhave a boyfriend or a
girlfriend.
(45:13):
It's about that process that'songoing of sorting through who
am I and developing an identityas a person.
Yes.
The
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, (45:25):
bigger statement is about having your
own back and that knowing thatyou trust yourself to, make the
best decisions with theinformation that you have at the
time, that if something doeshappen, you know how to handle
it, whether it is an, anemotional exchange.
Mm-hmm.
An intimacy exchange, a medicalexchange, an accidental
(45:48):
exposure.
That you have the tools or knowwhere you can get the tools in
order to make the best decisionthat you can at the time.
So having your own back I thinkis just a great overall thought
to leave with.
Perfect.
(46:08):
That's what, that's what I wouldwant for my clients.
From littles all the way up toadults who are coping with food
allergies to understand thatthey have their own back.
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (46:17):
Great.
That's perfect.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to talk about this.
I love where the conversationtook us that we didn't
necessarily plan out.
Thank
Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, L (46:26):
you.
I, it was really interesting towalk down memory lane.
I hadn't thought about it in awhile about how many.
Aspects of my childhood lead to,you know, young adulthood and
all the different pieces andlayers of me and, and medical me
that added up to, um, a certain,a certain point.
(46:48):
And so that's a, that was a funone
Amanda Whitehouse, PhD (46:51):
memory lead for me.
I appreciate you being willingto share it with us is helpful.
Of course.
Thank you.
Thank you so much again forjoining us for part two of this
conversation.
Thank you so much to my guest,Sloan Miller for your idea and
your correct insight that thisis a really important topic to
be discussing.
Thank you again to Dr.
Sicherer for joining us for partone of this conversation.
(47:12):
I hope that this will be somehelpful information If you want
to keep learning, you can readDr.
Sicherer's book, the CompleteGuide to Food Allergies in
Adults and Children.
You can read Sloane Miller'smemoir Allergic Girl, and you
can reach out to me for the freeguide that I've created for you
based on this series of talks tohelp you navigate these
conversations and situations.
You can access that by followingme on Instagram at the Food
(47:35):
Allergy Psychologist andmessaging me asking for the free
guide.
Or you can visit my website atthe food allergy
psychologist.com and reach outto me through the contact option
If you are finding this contenthelpful, it would mean so much
to me if you would subscribe andfollow the show.
Give the show a review, andshare it with other people who
might benefit from it too..
I appreciate you listening, andwe will talk again soon.
(47:58):
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
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