From Home to the Hallways: Sarah Hornung's Journey from Allergy Mom to School Administrator

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In this episode, Dr. Whitehouse talks with Sarah Hornung, a food allergy mom and dedicated school administrator who shares how her personal journey with food allergies has shaped her professional mission. Together, we explore how to create school environments that go beyond safety measures, addressing the emotional well-being of children navigating the challenges of food allergies. Kids with food allergies don’t just deserve to BE safe, they also deserve to FEEL safe.

Sarah opens up about the thought processes and confessions many of us food allergy parents will understand, offering heartfelt insights into the fears, frustrations, and hopes that come with the territory. We also explore how she utilized all of this to develop policies and practices that incorporate the emotional wellbeing and integration of kids with food allergies into school communities.

Whether you're a parent, educator, or advocate, this conversation highlights the power of empathy and informed action in making schools safer and more supportive for all students.

Find Sarah Hornung @TheEagerTeacher and www.theeagerteacher.com

Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com

Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
[e-mail]

Episode Transcript

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (00:00):
For a long time, I felt like I had
to keep my personal business outof the work that I do for kids
at work.
And then when I recognized thatI could be a bridge of
understanding for people, thatthat was where, you know, I
tried to make my impact.
And, by telling my story alittle bit, and then how, for a

(00:20):
long time, I kept it out of mywork, and then realizing that
that could be something thatcould actually build
understanding with teachers andand with other families, there's
so much gray area withallergies, that it really does
affect a child's entire world,and that schools and education
have to be aware of all of the,you know, you might not think

(00:42):
that things have anything to dowith allergies, allergies, but
here's what it.
I think mission Our district andmy mission as a mom has been to
just increase the awareness andsensitivity to the experiences
of families with food allergies,that it's more about building an
understanding than it is aboutchanging the rules or the

(01:05):
regulations or the guidelines,it's my role to try to build an
understanding with the peoplewho work here, go to school
here, and implement thepolicies.
There's not a perfect or rightway for a family to navigate
allergies.
There's not a perfect and rightway for a school to navigate
allergies because it can be avery personal and specific

(01:27):
experience for people.

Speaker (01:30):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence.

(01:52):
I can't wait to introduce you totoday's guest.
Sarah Horning is one of myfavorite people to talk to about
food allergies.
She's an amazing mom of threegreat kids, all of whom have
food allergies and havecompleted the OIT process as a
family.
She started her career as ateacher, and while she was
looking for full timeemployment, she started her
blog, The Eager Teacher, talkingabout her parenting food

(02:14):
prepping hacks andorganizational skills, which
went viral and landed her onGood Morning America.
And she's worked her way upsince in her career.
to become an administrator in aschool district here in Western
New York.
Currently, Sarah is working asthe assistant superintendent for
curriculum, innovation, andpupil services.
She's been bringing herknowledge and expertise into
that role to build a bridgebetween the food allergy parents

(02:36):
and community and theadministrators in the district
in which she works.
She brings a wealth of her ownknowledge and experience into
that conversation in a way thatI know and have personally seen
is really impacting the allergycommunity here where we live and
has made parents and kids feelheard and respected.
She's also helping teachers andemployees in the school district

(02:57):
to develop a new perspective andunderstanding of what kids with
food allergies really need intheir schools and how to make
that happen.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (03:06):
Sarah, thank you so much for joining us
here today on Don't Feed theFear.
I've been so excited to talk toyou your unique role that you
have in terms of balancingallergy awareness and advocacy
and management in both your homeand personal life and your work
life.
So I'm so excited to chat.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (03:23):
I'm very excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-202 (03:26):
Of course.
Do you want to start just bytelling us a little bit about
your wonderful family and howyou ended up a part of this
allergy community?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (03:34):
So something that's a little bit
unique about me is that I havethree children and all three of
them have food allergies.
So when my oldest was a baby andwe first found out that he had
an allergy, it felt quitemanageable because he was the
only one in our family who hadan allergy and, I'll never
forget kind of learning that Ididn't even have Benadryl in the

(03:56):
house he had his first reaction,it wasn't something that I had a
ton of information about, itwasn't something that I felt I
was prepared to handle at thetime.
he had his first reaction afterI pretty much forced him to eat
egg whites because everyone saidit's a great first food for kids
because it's soft and they, it'sa good source of protein.

(04:17):
And, lo and behold, he wasallergic and had a really severe
reaction that day.
And that was really when I, Ithink I entered the club of
being an allergy mom and anallergy parent.
it wasn't until my second childwas born that then I really felt
like I belonged to the clubbecause he was also born with an

(04:39):
allergy to egg and then my thirdchild came along she threw us
for a loop because she was alsoallergic to peanut.
So here I was starting to feellike I can handle as long as
they're all allergic to egg.
one food, I can manage that, andthen when we started to learn
about her peanut allergy itstarted to feel really

(05:00):
unmanageable and, I don't knowhow much of my, my story of kind
of where, how I evolved intoreally feeling like this was a
message that I needed to makesure I talked about openly and
to try to remove some of thestigma from is, I had what I
would call sort of that.

(05:21):
sliding door moment that istalked about sometimes, where
you have the before and then theafter.
And we had been living with allthree kids with food allergies
several years.
we had a next door neighbor whowas incredibly sensitive to our
needs.
And we went there for a partyone night.

(05:42):
I want to say my, my oldest wasprobably six at the time.
So they were probably six, four,and two.
our very kind neighbors, theyhad done everything that they
could to keep us safe.
They always were willing to makeseparate food, and they were
always willing to save thepackages.
And they understood some of thethings that you have to do to
make a family with allergies.
Not only safe, but also justfeel safe.

(06:05):
Some of those subtle things thatthey had really started to
understand.
And so they were having this,Christmas party.
Or I think it was a friend'sgiving party.
It was in the winter, we went totheir house, and, they had saved
every box of pasta, and they hadset aside a separate table, and
they had labeled everything.
And we got there, and my sonstill refused to eat anything.

(06:29):
And I was embarrassed, becausethey had went to such great
lengths to accommodate us, and Iwas so embarrassed that he
wouldn't eat.
And part of me was frustrated.
I wanted to force him to eat.
I wanted to say like, you bepolite, they went to all this
trouble to make you comfortableand safe.
and what I really did was I saidto my husband, I gotta go.

(06:52):
I gotta go back next door.
There are next door neighbors.
I went home and I FaceTimed mymom and I just cried and I just
said, I cannot live like this.
This cannot be how we alwaysoperate, where this is the only
thing that I ever think about,it's the only thing that I ever
talk about, and it's also theonly thing that people see about

(07:13):
our family.
And from that forward, I decidedwe had to change kind of how we
were operating as an allergyfamily, and the decision was
either we go nowhere, we stopgoing to parties, we stop in
things where people are going todo what we're these kind
gestures for us that will neverbe enough.

(07:34):
or I work on changing our, ourpath forward.
And so, I also was heartbrokenfor my son that he would be in a
situation where someone would doeverything in the world for him
and it still would never beenough to make him feel safe.
so that's kind of where ourstory changed, and we started to

(07:55):
look for a new allergist.
We started to, I started to doresearch and what I found was
there was a community out thereof people who were experiencing
the same thing as me.
And I didn't have to feel soalone.
I mean, I left that party andwent home and cried to my mom
because I just felt completelyisolated from and feeling like,

(08:15):
no one will ever understand.
and so in my work of getting outthere, I realized that the power
of community when you're goingthrough this is one of the most
powerful things and truly canchange the experience of
families and kids.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (08:28):
There are so many pieces of that,
that, I think are reallyimportant and so well said, but
the first one that I want topoint out is the distinction
that you made between being safeand feeling safe and how
important it is to recognizethat those are not always the
same thing.
especially when we're theparents trying to keep our kids
safe, we focus on the details ofwhich food and which label and

(08:49):
whose house.
And, in your case, obviouslythat was all done to a tee.
With the best of intentions, butwe kind of.
forget that it's not alwaysenough to make the kids or us as
parents feel safe.
It's just such a differentexperience in the body than it
is in the brain, knowing allthat the, all the check marks
have been checked.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (09:09):
think that's where I, I have said to
my children before that themfeeling safe a lot of times is
an inside job.
It is something that they haveto get comfortable owning and
talking about.
And they, you know, I think thefirst time my son ever had to
have his EpiPen, we, we made amistake.

(09:31):
Mom made a mistake.
And, We, you know, realized itimmediately when he started to
have a reaction, he was eating aWegmans sub and it had an egg
wash on it.
And I want to say he was, Ithink he was four years old when
that happened.
And afterward he stopped wantingto eat anything.

(09:53):
He even trusted foods, thingslike fruits and vegetables that
would have not a chance ofhaving any egg in it.
He stopped wanting to eat those.
And it was that feeling of.
for me and for my husband andour family of knowing we know
it's safe and trying to tellsomeone that they just have to
believe us is really hard whatwe finally were able to

(10:16):
understand after a lot of worktogether with him to get him
past that that incident and thattrauma was understanding that he
thought if mom can make amistake who is the only person
in this world I'm supposed totrust right and how could I ever
trust anyone else.
And so it has taken a, it hastaken many years of being able

(10:40):
to be okay knowing that even ifpeople make mistakes, that's
also what our EpiPens are for.
some of the conversations thatwe've had to have too is even
people who don't know that theymake mistakes, right?
A restaurant or crosscontamination, there's all of
these variables for childrenwith food allergies who you have
to just say, that is why we havethis incredible tool.

(11:03):
of an EpiPen.
That is why this life savingdevice, this is why we, we can't
control everybody else, but wecan control that we keep our
EpiPen with us.
So that when something like thathappens, we know that we have
this wonderful thing.
And that was also a mindsetshift for our family.
always had sort of that scary,oh my gosh, what if we ever have
to use the Epi?
And I'm not proud to admit, butI want to say we've had four or

(11:26):
five, I, kind of amazing thatI've lost count.
Four or five EpiPen injectionsin our house.
since over the last nine years.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (11:35):
I think it's powerful for you to
admit that, that there's reallycomplicated feelings around
that, and I just want tovalidate for you, for everybody
listening, you know, this,almost all of us listening, you
know, Have had moments likethat, too, where we've had to
use up enough and several timesin my house in the past year, if
that makes you feel any better.
And it's it is powerful.
Obviously, it's a horrible andscary experience, but it really

(11:56):
does make the shift that you'retalking about in terms of.
We're all human.
We're going to make mistakes,but the trust should be in the
medication that we know is thenumber one thing that will save
us and to develop the trust inthe medicine and get over that
fear and that hesitation of, isit going to hurt?
And do I have to then go to thehospital?
Will there be an ambulance?
You know, all those fears that,that lead to the hesitation kind

(12:19):
of fade away when we are in thatemergency moment and we use it,
we develop confidence and thenwe Especially our kids feel
immediately how it helps theirbodies, how much better they
feel once they get theirmedicine.

sarah-hornung--she-he (12:32):
something when my middle child had to have
his EpiPen twice in one summer,for two different reasons.
And the second time around, Ihad sort of these lessons
learned from the first timewhere the first time stress that
I projected in the moment, Ithink really made the situation
a lot worse.

(12:52):
And the second time it happened,As soon as I gave him his
EpiPen, I said to him afterward,Can you tell me if you're
starting to feel better yet?
And then we talked every dayafter that about, Do you
remember as soon as you got yourEpiPen, how much better you
felt?
and I would say that in front ofmy other children who were there
because I wanted them to hearthat it wasn't a scary thing for

(13:16):
their sibling.
It was a relieving thing.
And that's something that, if Icould tell every allergy parent
who has never had to use theirEpiPen that it is, your reaction
and the way you behave, you'reterrified.
if you can just stay as calm aspossible and talk about the
positivity of, you know, I'mgoing to do this and it's going

(13:38):
to make you feel better.
and it really is.
It's like in 10 seconds you cankind of see their body melting
the, the reaction away.
And, but I think that'ssomething that I, I had to
unfortunately learn the hard waybecause I think I projected my
own stress and anxiety on mychildren as they were going
through it the first time.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (13:57):
That's just so natural in all of us
because what's more, triggeringto our bodies in terms of,
recognizing that it's anemergency than our kids having
that, that severe of a reaction.
and obviously that's not thefault or, or doing of the
parents.
Sometimes it's just the natureof each kid's different bodies
and allergens.
But, we just, we kind ofdeveloped that muscle and I, I

(14:18):
similarly, the way you'redescribing it, we talk in our
house, about, I will do anythingit takes to keep you safe.
even if it's hard for me to do,even if it feels scary.
And, and then my son, he's hadto administer his own
epinephrine since then.
And we'll say the same thing.
I can do what it takes to keepmyself safe, even if it's scary,
even if it pokes a little bit.
And that's a big mindset shift.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (14:40):
we've changed some of even our just
like organization in our housearound our EpiPens because I
used to kind of keep them inthis space.
special cabinet and I'll neverforget the, I was cleaning them
out one time, cleaning outexpired ones and my son saw one
and immediately went into like,Oh my God, why do you have an
EpiPen out?
And so now we keep them in avery visible location.

(15:01):
Just yesterday, my parents wereover for dinner and my mom saw
two EpiPens right on our kitchencounter.
And she said, Oh, where didthese come from?
I said, Oh, I think they werejust, we just took them out of
the backpack that we broughttoday to the zoo or whatever it
was.
Just having them not be a scarything to see anymore and taking
away some of that reaction thatcan happen And the other part is

(15:24):
having the kids grab the EpiPenwhen we leave, you know Can you
make sure you grab the EpiPensthat they're holding them?
They're touching them I know alot of people do this But
something that has also helpedour family is with the expired
ones using them, injecting theminto apples and oranges.
And, we just did this in ourneighborhood where I asked some
of our neighbors and the kidsthat play with my kids, you're

(15:47):
old enough now that you couldhelp in an emergency.
and just having the kids touchthem and not have it be this
scary and knowing that this is apowerful tool that can, can help
you and save your friend and, soit's just those small shifts
where I think originally when Istarted the journey of being a
food allergy parent, it waslike, oh my gosh, it's this

(16:10):
really, know, daunting and scarything and it's not.
And I, now that I, you know,we're having this conversation,
your podcast's name, Don't Feedthe Fear, I think that's, it,
that sums it up.
That's how I felt.
I had so much fear and Iprojected it onto my kids and
now we've kind of spent.

(16:30):
I would say we've spent the lastthree years undoing all of that
and it has paid off in just themost incredible ways.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (16:41):
I'm so glad you have found your way
through that because I thinkit's natural to end up there the
way that things unfold.
you were talking about the shameof.
and the complicated feelings ofhaving to administer.
But I was thinking of theopposite of that.
I have more shame about thetimes when looking back, I
should have EPI, but we didn'tbecause of all the things that
you're describing.

(17:01):
And of course you can only.
use, the knowledge that you haveat the time and when you know
better, you do better.
But I, I just thought I'd throwthat in there that actually,
none of us should feel shame forany of it, but it's almost
harder for me to look back onthose and think, Oh my gosh,
what could have happened?
Because I know now I should havegiven it.
And I didn't because of allthose fears.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (17:20):
will say we had a, an incident, one
of my son's most traumaticincidents was tied to the fact
that he had to go to thehospital after.
And very early on when we gotthe script for the EpiPen and we
were learning what to do in theevent of an emergency, there was
always that mentality that.
You administer the EpiPen andthen you call 9 1 1.

(17:42):
And for us, when the firstresponders came, we went in an
ambulance and we went to thehospital.
And then we stayed there forseven hours.
we weren't seen and we waited inthe waiting room and then by the
time we finally got into a roomto be seen by a doctor, entire,
reaction had been over.
The, the possibility of therebound reaction, all of these

(18:03):
different things had subsided.
And that whole experience wasthe most traumatic part was
having to go to the hospital andhaving to be in the ambulance
what we learned because duringthe pandemic, we had an incident
where we had to give the EpiPenand when 911 came or, when the
paramedics came, they advised usto not go to the hospital

(18:24):
because we were trying to avoidbeing in hospitals as much as
possible.
recognized that he was.
It's stable enough and safe andthat, basically they said, if
something changes, call usagain, but it's safer for you to
stay home right now.
And we can tell that you haveall of the resources and tools
and you know what to look for.
And after that time, I realizedhave the power to also be able

(18:49):
to decline to go to thehospital.
And I'm not advocating on yourpodcast for people to decline
medical, medical support andhelp.
I recognize one of the reasonsthat I would hesitate to give
it.
Was because I was more worriedabout having to call 911 also
sometimes it's like 10 o'clockat night and you don't want the
ambulances coming down yourstreet because then you're going

(19:10):
to wake up every person in yourneighborhood and everyone's
going to wonder what's going on.
And so there's,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (19:14):
Yeah.
Or like in our house, there's,it always happens when only one
parent is home.
And then there's like thisscramble and my brain has always
operated like that.
If I have to call the ambulance,if I'm alone with the kids, what
will I do with the other kids?
that's a real barrier sometimes.
that's powerful.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (19:30):
at a time when you're like, gosh,
you know, tomorrow at work Ihave this, this huge thing and
if I spend the whole night inthe hospital, I'm probably going
to have to.
And it's these.
Those are the silent burdensthat we carry that, you know, we
don't even ever say out loud.
I even remember one timethinking, Oh my gosh, our house
is so trashed right now.

(19:50):
And I'm like, I'm in my pajamas.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2 (19:53):
Yes,

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (19:53):
in 90 seconds, every volunteer
firefighter in our town is aboutto walk through our house.
Those are the things that, whichare, it's kind of funny to
admit, but it's real.
Oh, Yeah,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (20:06):
a small community, you know, all
of those, it's not somestranger, like the first ENT who
arrives at our house, we passhis house all the time, we wave
at him, I know him.
So, yeah, it's.
It's, it's a small

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (20:16):
town.
It's great.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (20:17):
Yeah.
Well,

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (20:22):
of shame to that is c sort of
feeling like you I, I thinkabout that all some point, are
they gonn can't this, this, thisbe get her act together, like
why does she keep feeding herkids the things they're allergic
to, which for the record, isn'twhy we've called every time.
Sometimes it was the discoveryof a new allergy that we didn't

(20:42):
know until they ate the food,but it is, it's all of those
things where we care so muchabout, the burden that our
allergy is going to cause onpeople that we in many ways,
like suffer silently.
And I think that goes back tothe idea of having a community
and knowing that there are otherpeople who have experienced the
same thing that you'reexperiencing.
Yeah,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (21:03):
and so you said that was really a
shifting point for you wasfinding community.
So do you want to share how thatunfolded for you?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (21:11):
when you want to give an answer.

(21:33):
To find an allergist who's goingto, be more supportive.
Our family did oralimmunotherapy.
I don't know how often that istalked about on your podcast,
but we are an OIT family.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2 (21:45):
Yes, openly.
we are too.
So yes, share anything that youwant to about that, please.
Yes.
Mm hmm.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (21:50):
and, um, in this, you know, in
Western New York, that was notalways a convenient decision for
families.
Families like yours and othershad to travel to different
states to find a doctor whowould do that.
Yeah.
and so I had reached out to aperson who I knew who had
participated in that and hadsome suggestions.
And when I did, she said, youknow, there are a lot of really

(22:13):
good Facebook groups out therethat you can join and you can,
be part of and it will just, youknow, there's a lot of good
recommendations.
This was also probably in 2021,2022 that, that I was in.
of changing our trajectory, Iguess, and there wasn't the
opportunity to do like in persongroups anymore.

(22:34):
I had heard that there was an inperson allergy group in our
community and truly that waslike this mind blowing
realization to me.
I thought, wow, I never thoughtthat there would be other
people, you kind of think you'reon an island.
Like, I always felt, and havingbeen a teacher for many years, I
had maybe one or two kids withallergies when I was the allergy
class.
And so I think the statisticshave changed, the prevalence has

(22:57):
changed, and that didn't realizehow many other families would
have been able to relate to myexperience.
So when we switched allergistsand we started to go down the
path of OIT, went on Facebookand I searched for allergy
groups and OIT groups, and Ifound some.

(23:20):
really amazing community groups,not necessarily local, but some
from all across the country, andthere were, there were three
groups in particular.
There was one for people whowanted to learn more about OIT,
there was one for people whowere in the middle of it, and
then there was one forgraduates.
then I also had found one forThat was just called like food
allergy moms or food allergyparents.

(23:42):
And as I started reading throughcomments and I mean, I think
like anything on Facebook Youhave to also filter what you
read a little bit And and if youare prone to stress and anxiety
you have to know Some of thethings that you should engage in
and shouldn't.
I will say that as a triggerwarning to anyone that you some
people are sharing a lot ofreally detailed trauma on there

(24:07):
and, and in some cases cancreate and introduce new fears.
for me, it was really empoweringto see that there were a lot of
people out there who were kindof going through the same things
I was going through.
and, and as I started to dothat, realized I have to start
talking about this.
I have to start sharing my storyand talking openly about it

(24:28):
because of the power of beingable to read about other people.
So in my community, you know, Istarted to talk openly at PTO
meetings.
I started to talk openly with mychildren's teachers, and then I
really started to bring thatwork into, into my current role
in my job in school districts,realizing that this is a really

(24:49):
big part of my life and myidentity.
And I have the power to be ableto use that in my own experience
to other families feel seen,heard, and valued.
And, so it's been a journey andit's been one that has been
really rewarding because, to beable to hear other people's
stories, I think, is sometimesthe most powerful way for us to
build understanding.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (25:11):
And so your job title, you're the
Assistant Superintendent forCurriculum, Innovation, I wrote
it down, and Pupil Services.
Did I get it right?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (25:21):
good.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (25:21):
I always just say Assistant
Superintendent in my mind, butfor those of us who don't fully
understand what that roleinvolves in a school district,
can you explain a little bitmore?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10- (25:30):
I am responsible on paper for
selecting and managing andimplementing all of the
standards and curriculum forevery subject and content area
that's taught in our schooldistrict pre K through 12.
So we're a pre K through 12district.
we have just over 5, 000students and, I work very

(25:51):
closely with teachers.
I work very closely withadministrators, but then I also
work really closely withparents.
And.
One of the parts of my role asthe Pupil Services, so a lot of
times people don't know what thePupil Services part of my role
is, it's really supporting a lotof the different areas of K 12
education that, are socialemotional learning.

(26:13):
I, oversee all of our schoolcounselors, all of our school
social workers, and so in myrole in that area, I often work
with families and friends.
staff members who are supportingsome of these more peripheral
needs that families have.
yes, our main job is to educatestudents and children, but we

(26:33):
can't educate kids if they arenot coming to school ready to
learn.
And when, when I started in thisrole, coincidentally, my
superintendent had been workingwith some families with children
with food allergies in ourcommunity.
And, I, you know, initially myhesitation was, It's kind of
feeling like This is a personalthing for me, and I try to keep

(26:57):
personal and business separate,right?
Like, I try to have, this is mywork, work, and this is my
homework.
And I

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (27:04):
Right.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (27:05):
work in the same community, which is
a benefit in many ways.
I can just be mom when I go homeand work, and I can be, I can
have my own journey in my ownhome district without having it
be the same thing that I'm doingat work.
But I remember going to mysuperintendent and saying, I
know you're doing some work withstudents.
and families with foodallergies.

(27:25):
You know my story.
He's very supportive andunderstands, especially when I
was going through OIT, theamount of support that I had
from my boss of justunderstanding that this is a
really big time commitment formy family.
I'm always on, right?
I'm always for a phone call froma, an appointment or a doctor or
a school.

(27:47):
but anyway, I, I went to him andI said, I really would love to
meet with the families thatyou've been talking with.
I think that I can be a bridgeof understanding, for families
who are reaching out and sayingthat they want to make sure that
their children have the sameexperience in school, regardless
of whether they have allergiesor not.
And I think some of that is alsojust understanding how different

(28:09):
the families are.
world is now, I referenced beinga teacher and having one or two
kids with allergies in my classyears ago.
That was the reality.
You really had a couple studentswith allergies and the goal was
to just avoid.
You know, we're a peanut, freeroom, we just avoid.
and I think that that haschanged and evolved a lot

(28:30):
because of things like OIT.
But I also think just becauseit's more prevalent now, knowing
that in any classroom there'sfour or five kids who have a
food allergy, it's everyone'sresponsibility to have
compassion and understanding andbe inclusive.
it's also our responsibility tohelp non allergy students
understand what their peers aregoing through.

(28:51):
So a lot of that work with ourschool counselors and social
workers is also having them beable to.
facilitate and foster aconversation between two
students.
bullying in schools for studentswith food allergies is a, is a
real issue.
It's happened to my children.
It's happened to many people'schildren.
I'm sure any one of yourlisteners who has a child with a

(29:12):
food allergy probably has astory of whether it was overt
and it was clear what washappening or whether it was
subtle.
I am embarrassed to admit thatif before I had kids, I probably
have always believed that thathappens.
I wouldn't have believed that akid would be capable of saying,

(29:33):
well, I'm going to just smearpeanut butter on you.
And, unfortunately I can say asa parent, but also as a, an
assistant superintendent, thosethings happen.
And, so it's become my missionto really try to build and
foster a more inclusiveenvironment for kids with food
allergies in our district.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (29:52):
I know so many people are so
excited to have you and wealready had Amy Burkett on the
show and she shared openly thatshe was, one of the parents in
this group who was, who wasseeking help from the district.
And it was like this divinetiming that you were hired and
look who we have on our sidenow.
Would you talk about what, and Iknow it's just for one specific
district, every location isunique, but.

(30:15):
How did you navigate it withthat team and then in your
position to start moving thingsin the direction that you wanted
them to go?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (30:22):
On a very small scale, the first
thing is really just bringingpeople together, just saying, I
want to sit down and listen.
I want to sit down and listen toyour heartbreaking stories or
your positive stories.
I want to hear everything andall of the experiences that
you've had.
and I think that on the heels ofthe pandemic, public schools had

(30:44):
to go through so much that Ithink their, and families had to
go through so much that it hasbeen over the last, I would say,
year and a half, two years,this, you know, trying to bring
people back to focusing on whatmatters most, and that's keeping
kids learning, safe, healthy,and happy in schools.

(31:05):
And so just being able to sortof say, let's refocus our energy
on something like this.
So meeting with groups ofparents, um, hearing what they
had to say.
And then it's also just beingable to, uh, teachers, help
administrators, help everyone inthe community understand the
stories and how some of thethings that we say and do, that

(31:28):
are very well meaning often havedifferent impacts.
So I, I always like to say ourintent is sometimes different
than our impact.
one of the areas that we'vechanged in the last year when we
revised our wellness policy,which some of the wellness
policy addresses some of ourpolicies around, students with
food allergies and making surethat they are in an inclusive

(31:50):
environment, we use the phraseexclude the food, not the child.
And the example that I think isreally telling for people where
they kind of have that lightbulb go on, where they say, well
I've always been great aboutkeeping kids safe.
I've always kept.
This area sanitized.
I've always kept the foodseparate.
I've always, you know,communicated with families.

(32:11):
We often, and I, my, my ownchildren have been of this.
We will say, here's the party,here's the thing we're serving,
and then here's your safe snack.
what we've just done, in a verywell meaning, nobody ever means
to do harm.
I think that's really importantto just state, is nobody is ever

(32:31):
planning a party thinking, howcan I exclude someone today?
Bye.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (32:35):
Right.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (32:36):
Um, they are trying to keep kids
safe, but what they, by servingthat safe snack or by giving
that child their one thing orletting them pick the piece of
candy out of their cubby thattheir parent has sent in, that
child,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-2 (32:50):
Instead of the delicious looking
cupcakes that everyone else iseating.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (32:53):
that child then in turn is still
excluded.
And so yes, they're safe, butthey're excluded.
They are experiencing somethingdifferent.
It's kind of slapping that labelon them that you're the allergy
kid, so you have to pick fromthis bin.
And the first time I ever heardthis analogy, it was a, a light
bulb went on for me.
That if I had a bunch of kidsplaying at my house one day, and

(33:15):
they all said, Can we havepopsicles?
And I open up my freezer, andthere's six kids over, and I
only have five popsicles.
And I say, Sure, you guys canhave popsicles.
The five of you can havepopsicles, but you point to this
one kid, I'm sorry, I'm all outof popsicles, but I have some
goldfish you can have instead.
Any parent who's ever managed aplaydate knows how that would

(33:38):
go.
It would not be, you know, thatkid would sort of just be
defeated.
They would be sad.
and it really wouldn't be, itwouldn't be that fairness and
that, feeling of belonging.
this group of friends,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10- (33:52):
Exactly.
Because even if goldfish, Idon't think for most kids would
compare to a popsicle, but evenif it really feels like as
exciting and delicious of atreat, if everyone else is
having something and having thisshared experience of like
popsicle day on the hot sunafter we've been running,
they're missing the experienceand the connection, not just the
item that was given.
I think that's important to keepin mind.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (34:14):
is.
And that's where that excludethe food, not the child
mentality comes into play.
And it's been really incrediblework to see.
This goes back to nobody everwants to do the wrong thing.
People are always looking forguidance and support on how to
do the right thing.
When we started this work, Atthe beginning of last year, and

(34:37):
I started communicating withteachers and staff, I started
going to faculty meetings in ourbuildings, which happen for
those who are not part of aschool community.
A faculty meeting happens once amonth, and it's every teacher
and staff member in the buildingwho meets with the, you know,
all together, they'll meet inthe library and they go over any
kind of critical updates andlearning and information.

(35:00):
And so I kind of took my show onthe road, and I went to each
school.
And I shared real data about thenumber of students in our school
who have food allergies.
And, um, you know, I thinkpeople love knowing real
information.
That's a big part of it, is it'sone thing to say, We need to be
better at this, or we need to bemore inclusive.
But when you can show, you know,when I can run a report, because

(35:23):
I can, I have the ability to seeall of the different foods that
are, that we have allergies to.
It quickly changes the messagethat somehow being peanut free
has become this, gold standardof, like, It's okay, we're
peanut free, right?
this is a school, it drives menuts when I see the packages in
this grocery store that say,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (35:42):
Right.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (35:42):
those Lofthouse cookies?

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (35:44):
Yeah.
And they say school safe, right?

sarah-hornung--she-her- (35:46):
School, they're not school safe for my

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (35:48):
Cause there's no nuts, right?
It depends on your kid.
Or when something says allergenfree, well, unless there's
nothing in it, it's not allergenfree because people can be
allergic to anything.
Right.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (36:00):
took my show on the road, I would say
these are the different foodsthat we have allergies to right
now in our district, lentils,strawberries, you know, beeswax,
like things that people wouldn'treally ever assume, our school
nurses know, they know all ofthe, but the rest of the
teachers and staff don't.
And then I also shared aboutjust the prevalence and the

(36:22):
number of allergies that we havenow.
I think that that sharing thatinformation was very eye
opening.
And then we also surveyed all ofour teachers to ask what their
experience with food in theclassroom has been and what
their suggestions were.
Because a lot of the work thatwas done was also done because
teachers came forward and said,I want to be better at this.

(36:44):
I want to figure out a way tohave a class party that doesn't
exclude Students or can we havea district safe snack list
again, like we did years agobefore the pandemic.
And can we have some type ofresource available so that we're
not burdening families with foodallergies every time we want to
plan an event.

(37:04):
And, you know, something that Ialways encourage staff because
you're never going to be able tohave a party or an event or any
type of communication that willinclude everyone there.
Like I said, there will alwaysbe someone who says, well, You
know, again, like you said,unless you have no food, there's
never a safe food for everyone.
but communication and havingthat open communication with

(37:26):
families is such a critical partof it.
and I'll give you an example.
Last year, after presenting toour, we have a central council
PTO.
So it's, we have six schoolbuildings in our district the
PTO presidents and co presidentsfrom all of the schools get
together.
A few times a year and meet justto ensure that they're all kind
of aligned with the work of thePTOs, regardless of what school

(37:49):
they work in.
And after meeting with them, Itry to bring my own children to
events here in our district whenI can.
I noticed immediately that thePTOs started sending, when they
would send home, send out anadvertisement for, The, around
the world event where they weredoing, this multicultural event

(38:12):
where they were bringingtogether different restaurants
in the community and havingthem, do samples of their food
and honoring a lot of thedifferent, cultures that exist
in our district.
They had a question on the RSVPasking, do you have allergies?
And if so, how many childrenwill you be bringing who have
allergies?
again, that was a little bit ofthe excluding the child because

(38:35):
it was having that separate safething, but it was a an event
intended to honor restaurants.
Like we weren't going to say youcan't bring it,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-2 (38:45):
events.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (38:46):
the year before, I don't know that
there would have even been anyconsideration and truly a family
with food allergies would havenever come to that event because
they would have known and theirkids go home and say, Can we go
home tonight?
They keep talking about it onthe morning announcements, and
either wouldn't have gone, orthey would have packed their own
food.
So that excitement for kids toget there, and my kids did.
We got there, and there was safetable, and they had these

(39:09):
prepackaged goodies that wereall in a bag.
And then similarly, about amonth after that, there was a
reading night, where it wasgoing to be hot cocoa and
cookies, and it was this reallysweet theme.
It And the PTO at that schoolalso had asked for information
about whether there were kidswith allergies.
So, it's, if it doesn't create aperfect environment, it makes

(39:32):
those families feel like theybelong.
And it makes people feel like, Idon't have to raise my hand and
say, Hey, don't forget about me.
I think that's been a really bigis just knowing that someone's
already thinking about you.
And that kind of helps withthat.
mental burden that, thatinvisible load that we carry as
allergy

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (39:52):
Yes that's what makes us feel safe
not just that we are safe,right?
When someone reaches out to usand offers, those are the most
powerful moments for me, notwhere I had to raise my hand or
speak up or ask the question.
Well, what are you serving?
Should I bring a safealternative for my child?
But When other parents have saidto me, we're doing this.
What do we need to do to make itwork for your family?

(40:14):
It's so powerful.
Even if then we do end up havingan alternative choice or
whatever it might be, thataction of reaching out and
connecting and then trying tomake us safe makes us feel safer
than me having to say, Oh, we'reover here.
We're coming in.
Here's our situation.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (40:29):
and I think a lot of it is also just
rethinking food is at the centerof every celebration in our, in
our world and in our society andin our culture.
And I personally hope that thatcontinues because who doesn't
love like right, I love to cookand I love that food is the
center of center of most of ourevents and connections with
people.
It's such an important part.

(40:50):
But it's also made us question,do we need food at this event?
Or does food have to be thecenter of everything?
And an example of that I thinkfor schools is birthday
celebrations.
I think that's a reallyimportant area that is
manageable and easy for schoolsto tackle.
Because it can be quite blackand white.

(41:11):
It doesn't have to be, right,like coming together and having
like a Polar Express day.
Kids do want to have hot cocoa,right?
Like that, that's the kind ofthing where I can understand the
rationale for that and notwanting to change.
but there's so many ways thatschools can celebrate birthdays
that doesn't include food.
And realistically, as a mom ofthree elementary school

(41:34):
students, I love the idea that Iwouldn't have to be responsible
for sending something in.
You know, the burden of beinglike, Oh my gosh, what are we
going to bring in?
and I have a funny story aboutthat, that will probably make
other allergy families Lastyear, I want to say, maybe it
was two school years ago, I'mterrible about reading every

(41:55):
paper that comes home inSeptember, right?
it's overload, I work in aschool, so it's my busy time of
the year.
And then having three kids inschool, things just come home
and I try my best to stay on topof it, but sometimes, I'm human,
I make mistakes.
And at the end of the schoolyear, my son's birthday is in
April, night before hisbirthday, I said, what do you

(42:15):
want to bring for your partytreat tomorrow?
My child's, my children's schooldoes not adhere to no party
treats, but they willcommunicate if there's an
allergy.
So I went to the store, I went,I was so proud of myself because
I went at like after school thatday so that I would be ready and
wouldn't be running out to thestore at 10 o'clock at night

(42:36):
like I sometimes am.
And I got ice cream sandwichesfor his class.
And I knew that he was the onlykid in the class with an
allergy.
So I was feeling like if this issafe for him, it's safe for
everyone.
And the next morning, he broughtall of the ice cream sandwiches
to school.
And I got a message from histeacher saying, I'm so sorry, I

(42:56):
need to send these home.
We don't allow food treats forparties this year due to food
allergies.
And my kid was the only kid inthe class with allergies.
But It was like this momentwhere I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm
breaking the rule that is beingenforced for my child.

(43:18):
I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry.
I'll take those back and I'llbring something else that's not
food.
And I guess I missed a memo thatshe had made the decision that
my son could be included ineverything.
She had made the decision andshe didn't want him to then be a
hypocrite, which I alsoappreciated, right?
Like, she could have just said,well,

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (43:38):
The rule was for you, you can break
it, right?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (43:40):
be consistent, which I really
appreciated.
But man, was I embarrassed thatI was the only parent who didn't
follow the rule and the rule wasintended to keep my child safe,
but that's the human side of allof us.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (43:54):
That's great.
Well, it worked either way, itwas an effective rule, right?
So.
That's great.
So you talked about being thisbridge between the two different
sides.
So what can you share about,other parts of what you're
bringing in from your ownfamily's experiences and your
kids' experiences that youreally want people in the
schools and specifically in yourdistrict to understand?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (44:16):
One of the things that has for me
personally, then an area whereI've tried to share as much as I
can is our experience with OIT,because I think for teachers,
especially teachers who havebeen teaching for a long time,
very hard to understand.
that there can be gray area nowwith allergies.
Like I mentioned, when I was ateacher, it was very black and

(44:36):
white.
You either were allergic or youweren't.
You sat at the allergy table oryou didn't.
Kids have never sat at theallergy table, even before we
did OIT, because I wanted themto be included as much as
possible, and I felt that theywere able to advocate enough for
themselves to, to be able to besafe at the regular table.
And that's a personal decisionthat every family has to make.

(44:59):
But for, for families,especially with OIT, one of the
areas that changed for ourfamily, and I've shared a lot of
this with our teachers, is mykids buy lunch every day in the
cafeteria.
And that was kind of this mindblowing thing for a lot of
people because you've never beenable to have the allergens from
the cafeteria food listed,right?

(45:20):
We've never known thatinformation.
We've never been able to accessthat.
And it's really getting peopleto know.
It might take you a little bitof time to find that
information.
You might have to spend a littleextra time with a student
reviewing the lunch menu thatday.
Maybe going down to the nurseand talking to the nurse and
consulting with the nurse aboutit.

(45:40):
But that's been something I'mvery passionate about because my
oldest son, that was like thislife changing part of childhood
for him.
He had this, and the schoollunches in all schools are
pretty gross.
So I don't, I'm not totallybashing school lunches, but
like, I would personally

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-2 (45:58):
They're not, yeah,

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (45:59):
Um, he just had this, it's something
about the independence of likegoing through the lunch line and
getting to pick out what I wantand, you know, getting to carry
the tray and the whole thing.
So the

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (46:12):
yeah.
The control and the grownup,like the maturity that, that
feels like that brings.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (46:17):
when he wanted to start buying lunch,
that was something that I had tonavigate with his school.
And so here in my district,recognizing that if we have the
information, we can makedecisions and make informed
decisions and families can makethat decision for themselves.
when I recognized that, I workin a school, so I know how to

(46:38):
get that information.
I have the resources and I'vegot like kind of the backdoor
knowledge of knowing, all right,I know how the school district
works, so I know exactly who Ineed to email and say, hey, do
you have allergens for this orcan you tell me if the pizza
contains egg?
And then I recognize like thatputs me and my family at an
advantage because I know thesystem.

(46:58):
And so how can I use thatknowledge?
and try to make it moreequitable so that all families
have access to that resource.
So that has been one of theprojects that I took on last
year was wanting to make surethat all of the allergens for
all of the food that was servedin our cafeterias was
accessible.
And it started small with justworking with our food service

(47:19):
company.
them to save all of the labelsof everything that they were
providing.
but that was very laborious andit was very hard for a family to
navigate, right?
You'd have to know that it wasthese roles and this, this ham
and all of that.
And

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2 (47:40):
Sure

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (47:40):
what I did was I reached out to, our
food service in Western New Yorkis usually managed by only a few
companies.
So, the company that we use herein our district is similar to
that.
That of other, is the same asother districts.
And so we brought together,families and food service
directors from, last year it wasthree districts, three

(48:01):
neighboring districts and said,this district is doing it and
this district is wanting it, wecan work collaboratively to make
this happen.
And so we did.
They were very cooperative.
They were very supportivecreated an allergen list for us
for all of the current menuitems that were being served in
the three school districts.
And then this year, what we did.

(48:22):
Was we took it one step furtherin their software now where you
can have your actual lunch menube interactive So if you click
on pizza It will tell you theallergens that it contains what
I learned in doing this numberone is that it's a ton of work
Not

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (48:40):
sounds like it.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (48:41):
came from the food service company
who had to go item by item andenter all of it I also learned
that there were other nonallergy Children who benefit.
So we have some students withdiabetes who came forward and
said, this is great.
I've never been able to track myinsulin at school.
If I wanted to buy a lunch, Iwas always just kind of

(49:02):
estimating.
We had one diabetic family comeforward and say, if you had that
information accessible, my son,who's never been able to buy a
school lunch because of insulin,able to buy a school lunch now.
then this year we also had, someof our teachers.
suggest to me, can we also havewhether the items that are being

(49:24):
served today contain pork?
Because we have many Muslimchildren who can't eat pork, and
you may not realize how manydifferent food items contain
pork.
Rice Krispie treats, because ofpork gelatin, contain pork, so

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-202 (49:38):
Mm

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (49:38):
you know, those little things that I
had blind spots to, that thiswork has helped me uncover, is
it's not just about beinginclusive of children with
allergies or intolerances.
It's also children who haveother different dietary needs
and restrictions either due toreligious needs or just
different medical conditionsthat weren't on my radar.

(49:58):
So it's been a really, excitingchange for us and something that
I hope, even to me, even if onlyfive Utilize that feature in a
district of 5, 000 kids.
I think it's worth it because Isee every single kid in our
district as that's someone'sbaby.
That's, that's my baby.
And I've seen the

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-2 (50:19):
mm-Hmm.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (50:20):
being able to like see that through
his eyes, that I want to be ableto give that opportunity to
every kid.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (50:27):
I love that.
It seems like there's so muchpotential with the realization
that there's these companiesthat are serving multiple school
districts to share their processfor doing that and, and for that
to be a more widespread thing ifit's not already happening in
more places.

sarah-hornung--she-h (50:41):
definitely is.
And I think, some of that wasalso me researching other states
and other school districts.
that's the power of theinternet, right?
You can go online and I googled.
School district allergen menuand I started looking at other
states and other districts andplaces that were already
incorporating that and gettingideas and inspiration for how we

(51:02):
could make it happen here andrealizing it's it felt
Overwhelming and it felt likeyou know and sometimes it was
like you had to I had to push acouple people like I know This
is gonna be a lot of work Buthere's why it matters and going
back to your question about howdo I use my own story to help?
Move the work forward is, I'veshared with everyone in this

(51:23):
district the story of how my sonhas befriended the cafeteria in
his school, And, I wrote aletter to our board of Education
where I live to praise thecafeteria employee who built a
connection with him, became atrusted adult for him, and truly
just made his entire elementaryschool life a success.

(51:47):
And I think, I, I have friendsand, and acquaintances who have
had the total oppositeexperience in a school
cafeteria.
And it is amazing that a child'scafeteria experience can be the
thing that overshadows the, therest of their day and all of
their social interactions and,and unfortunately some of that

(52:10):
fear and anxiety.
Yeah.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2 (52:15):
who.
Their cafeteria or lunchexperience really makes or
breaks their day.
And I don't just mean theirmood.
I mean, their academic progress,because are they anticipating
and feeling nervous all dayabout how it's going to go?
Are they hungry because theydidn't eat because they're
scared to eat at school?
And then for the rest of theday, are they only thinking
about, am I going to have areaction from that, or I'm so

(52:36):
hungry or whatever it might be?
It really shapes their day.
It's the day of a student inschool, not to mention how
important lunch is tosocializing, right?
If you feel comfortable and if,or if you feel set apart or, or
different, or it's, it's reallykey to the experience, yeah,

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (52:54):
small ways that adults can have an
impact on the lives of childrenwith food allergies in school.
And I have a few examples ofsome situations that were made
It just totally changed theexperience that my children had.
the first, having three kids inthe same building with food
allergies, they're all siblings,and my oldest son is the

(53:15):
guardian of the other two,right?
He's always thinking about themand worrying about them.
last year, one day, there was anew school lunch item that the
kids wanted to buy that day.
when he went through the schoolline, he was like, asked the,
employee working at this, in thelunch line if the item contained
egg.

(53:36):
And she said it did, so hedidn't get it.
And when he went to pay, hesaid, Can you just make sure
that my sister doesn't buy this?
Because she's also allergic toegg.
Well, what he didn't realize washis sister had already had lunch
an hour before.
so, the, staff member said,well, she already had lunch, and
so he walked away and then, youknow, went back to his table and

(53:59):
was just worried sick, wonderingif she was okay, wondering if
she had had that thing forlunch.
So when his teacher picked himup at the cafeteria, when she
came to pick up the class andshe shared, he shared with her
that he was worried that hissister had had this.
You know, are busy.
They are trying to get to thenext place.

(54:22):
It's easy to say.
The reassuring thing, which is,Oh, I'm sure she's fine.
If something's wrong, herteacher will take care of her.
don't worry about it.
And that would have been reallya well meaning and probably
appropriate response.
But what his teacher did was shesaid, Do you want to go to the
nurse's office and check to makesure she hasn't been there?
so his teacher walked him to thenurse's office so that he could

(54:44):
check and talk to the nurse andmake sure that his sister had
not been there.
when the nurse reassured himthat she had not seen her today,
the teacher said, do you want toalso go check on her in her
classroom and just put eyes onher?
So she took him to her, to hissister's classroom so that he
could have eyes on her and know.
And there she was, and she wasin UPK, she was in pre K.

(55:06):
So she's this, you know, littlethree and a half, four year old
sitting in her classroom.
And there's her big brothercoming by to check.
And, that, to me, was an exampleof a teacher who's smallest,
most caring way completelychanged his day.
He would not have learned therest of the day.
would have been sitting in hisclassroom with his mind racing.

(55:30):
the fact, and she didn't need todo that, but she did and it took
just a few minutes of the dayand really made a difference.
And, the other example of astory that really, to me, shows
the profound impact thatteachers have on building a
culture of inclusivity is a fewyears ago when my son was there.
I was eating in the cafeteriaand a friend in his class tried

(55:53):
to squirt mayo on his lunch andhe's allergic to egg.
And when that happened, the kidsaid, you can't die from eating
mayo.
And he had some friends at thetable who stood up for him.
And, he didn't tell me about thesituation for a few days.
It's, you know, kids always tellyou those things like when
they're going to bed at night,right?
So it's bedtime a few nightslater and he says, oh, you know,

(56:16):
mom, this thing happened to methe other day.
And So the next morning I calledhis teacher and I just said I
just wanted to put this on yourradar.
This happened at school.
I'm sorry I didn't tell yousooner, but he didn't tell me
until last night.
And she was also a food allergyparent.
so she a book the next day andshe did a whole lesson with her

(56:36):
class about understanding foodallergies and why it could hurt
somebody.
And, again, that was notsomething that anyone put her up
to, right?
That wasn't policy.
That wasn't part of the protocolfor how to handle an incident
like this.
It was her decision to reallylean into what had happened and
try to make sure that she couldbuild an understanding.

(56:58):
so I think that's really thepowerful part of talking about
this and not having it besomething that people kind of
keep to themselves iscommunicating and, having it be
really something that all kidsand all staff members are
talking about.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2 (57:11):
Both of those examples show so much
care for the child's emotionalworld, not just their physical
safety with the allergen, whichfrom what I know about your work
is a big piece of what you'vebeen trying to incorporate, not
just in policies, but trying todevelop and nurture
understanding for theexperience.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (57:27):
And I think that's where the
superpowers of teachers reallycome into play is being able to
know if this child is, is tooworried to learn, they won't
learn.
And how can I create anenvironment that feels safe and
healthy so that they can learnthe material that they need to..

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (57:44):
I know you have a really specific
story from your son's experiencethat illustrates what you're
trying to get people tounderstand, which is that the
impact of allergy on ouremotional life goes far beyond
the foods that we eat throughoutthe day.
So I was hoping if you'recomfortable and he would be
sharing that for the listeners.
Okay.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10- (58:02):
a year ago, my son who plays youth
hockey, was at a rink wherethere had been a carbon monoxide
leak, and it was a hockeytournament that had, he had been
there several times throughoutthat day, so we were there, I
don't know, probably about 12o'clock in the afternoon, and I
was there with my niece andnephew and my other children

(58:23):
watching the game, when we leftthat game, all of the kids that
I was bringing home with me,they all started to complain
about having a headache.
And it was very loud at the, atthe rink.
if you're ever in a, a hockeyrink like that, it's, it's very
loud.
There's a ton of noise.
And I kind of chalked it up tothat.
A few hours later, my husbandand my son went back for another

(58:45):
later game.
And I get this, call from myhusband saying something's going
on.
We don't know what, what it is.
but we, there are like 25 kidsvomiting right now off the bench
and kids are truly likedropping.
They are, they are collapsing onthe ice.
They are getting sickeverywhere.

(59:07):
And he's like, we're leaving,we're getting out of here.
don't know what's going on.
And turns out there was a majorcarbon monoxide leak the rink.
And they left, all of the firstresponders were starting to come
to the rink.
They had called 911.
There were ambulances coming,there were fire trucks coming,

(59:28):
and my husband got my son out ofthere and they left.
So they get home and he's homeand, we're, we're totally
puzzled by what was going on.
At the time, we didn't know yetthat it was carbon monoxide, but
there was obviously somethinghappening.
And, as soon as he got home,he's walking down the stairs and

(59:50):
I'm sorry to be graphic, but hejust like projectile vomits
everywhere.
And that's when we realized, andthe messages started coming
through on the hockey chat oflike, it's carbon monoxide.
We're all going to Children'sHospital.
the fire department detected it.
They came in.
They said the numbers were, inthe hundreds of, of rating how
high the carbon monoxideexposure was.

(01:00:13):
and thank God everyone was okay.
Everyone from that rank wasokay.
But I think that that nightthere were like 120 kids who
went to the hospital, because itwas a tournament too.
So there were kids in and outall day.
And when realized that my sonwas getting sick.
The first thing he said was,please don't call 9 1 1, please

(01:00:35):
don't call 9 1 1, please don'tcall 9 1 1.
And he was terrified of havingEMTs come and that he was going
to have to go to the hospital.
So what we decided to do,because it's that moment of
trying to decide what is thedecision I can make that will
create the greatest outcome forhim and also do the least amount

(01:00:55):
of health damage is kind of thething that you're weighing,
right?
And, so I said, if I call.
police, if I call the ambulance,and they come just do a check,
do a check up on you here athome, and we don't go to the
hospital, would you be okay withthat?
he was.
So we had the first responderscome to our house, they checked

(01:01:16):
him, they said he really isfine, he just needs fresh air,
and he ended up being okay thatnight.
But the outcome after that wasthe part that, for me, was this
lesson learned of, His trauma,his medical trauma that is
associated with his allergy willfollow him forever.
It will be something that hecarries with him in the most

(01:01:38):
unsuspecting places.
up to this point, he had beenreally in a great place.
He had not been worried aboutanything.
we had a couple years where hewould obsessively check food
labels, or he would obsessivelyworry about the ingredients and
things and whether or not theywere going to be safe.
He was so far removed from thatbecause of OIT.
That in the following days, hewas scared to eat and he was

(01:02:01):
also scared to go to hockey everagain.
He was starting to, he was like,I don't want to play hockey
anymore.
And this is a kid who, this ishis whole life.
This is his whole identity.
and it was this really eyeopening experience for us to see
how the medical traumaassociated with it could impact
this sport that he loves somuch.

(01:02:22):
and, as we unpacked it with him,and, and we rely heavily on, on
mental health supports for that,and we don't try to go at that
alone, I think that's somethingthat's really valuable.
is being able to ask for helpwhen you need it.
And he was able to work throughthat it wasn't just the medical
trauma.
It was also everyone gettingphysically sick.

(01:02:43):
Seeing everyone get sick in away that, you know, he had, sick
in the past from an allergicreaction.
And then the other part of itthat I thought was really
interesting is discovering thatwith food allergies have been
trained to see the threat.
They've been trained to read thethreat.
They can see it with their eyes,right?

(01:03:04):
They can see that that's apeanut butter sandwich.
They can see that that's apacket of mayo.
They can read that this containstree nuts.
This was a threat to him that hedid not see.
And that was something that forhis little, at the time, 8 year
old brain, it was too much forhim to understand.
How can I protect myself otherthan just not go into any area

(01:03:27):
ever again where that threatcould occur?
back.
and so that to me was thisreally eye opening experience

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (01:03:35):
Yeah, and the way that his body
connected it experience of avomiting of seeing other people
sick in his body, probablywithout much conscious thought
on his part, even though itsounds like it came out later,
that feeling of connecting it tothe possibility of a food
allergy reaction and that I'm, Idon't really want to eat.
I'm, I'm.
refusing foods that I wouldn'thave or feeling uncomfortable
eating in a way that I haven'tbeen, I just think it speaks to

(01:03:58):
what I preach so much as how ournervous system just remembers
things and is kind of, like yousaid, scanning, and we want to
find the things that we can seethe concrete evidence, but with,
with food allergy, as with thisexperience, kind of stirred up
that what's the unknown, what amI missing would be harming me
that I don't even know it's outthere.
And then we just retreat.

(01:04:19):
And, and feel this generalizedfear and, and protectiveness.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (01:04:23):
and if I can just run away from it
as far as possible, then I'll besafe think that's

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (01:04:28):
Right.
Avoid, avoid, avoid.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (01:04:31):
the other part of that experience.
That was a big area of growthfor me and my husband was anyone
who's ever had a child withanxiety knows when you don't see
the same threat as your child,right?
Like you, logically, we werelike, they've replaced every
part of the that was creatingthis leak, or we're playing at a

(01:04:54):
completely different rank.
We're playing in an outdoorrink.
We're even, you

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21- (01:04:58):
rink, right?

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_10 (01:04:59):
so it can be maddening for a parent
when you're trying to explain toyour child, you don't have to
worry about this.
But try to tell someone who'sworried to not worry, and it
just creates this cycle, and itjust compounds it.
so it was balancing how muchshould we be talking about this,
and how much should we beignoring it, it's trying to
figure out striking that rightbalance.

(01:05:21):
Again, where you're going to bedoing as much, giving as much
benefit to the situation, whilealso managing the amount of harm
that you're going

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (01:05:30):
Right.
Well, back to are we feeding thefear or are we like healing and
resolving it, right?
Cause I know, I know you wellenough to know you weren't
ignoring, but in terms of like,let's refocus on this instead of
dwelling and just circling andmaking this fear bigger and
bigger, that's kind of what Imean when I say don't feed the
fear.
do we dwell in it?
Do we shift gears and put ourfocus and energy on something

(01:05:51):
else?
It's difficult.

sarah-hornung--she-her (01:05:53):
actually at a game a couple of weeks ago.
And as we were driving there, wegot a message from the coach
saying they just had to evacuatethis rink because the fire alarm
was going off.
And as we're driving, I said tomy husband, Hey, we can, don't
worry.
We're not late because there's adelay.
The games are delayed.
And I kind of gave him that looklike, just keep driving.
Like, or how can we go?

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-202 (01:06:16):
Do not discuss, don't engage.
Yep.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (01:06:20):
any, you know, association with that.
So it's still a real thing, eventhough we've moved beyond that.
It's always still that, parentsknow you just have to navigate
and be aware.
And when we got there, ofcourse, then some kids were
talking about like, Oh, thesmoke alarm was going off.
The smoke alarm was going off.
And my son's like, why, what washappening?
And it's just trying to givefacts while also not feeding the

(01:06:43):
fear.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (01:06:44):
And it's constantly, it's a constant
dance, right?
And our, our nervous systems asparents just respond so much.
As soon as you got that message,you knew okay, it's on.
How do I,

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_ (01:06:53):
Here we

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21 (01:06:53):
what's the balance here in this
specific?
Yep.
Yes.
Well, I don't want to keep youall day.
I feel like we could talk forhours, but do you have time for
me to ask you just one wrap upquestion?
I like to ask everybody at theend to tell us something really
great about food allergies andhow they've impacted you in a
wonderful way.
Definitely.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (01:07:13):
for this.
I think when I look at foodallergies through the lens of,
like, through the eyes of mychildren, has created some of
the most independent kids Icould not have taught them that
level of independence and selfadvocacy.
I consider it leadership skills.

(01:07:34):
When I see some of the, thatthey have because they've had to
navigate advocating forthemselves and asking questions
and seeking information whereother kids their age might just
kind of get to coast through.
have in so many ways become justso much more independent and

(01:07:54):
responsible it, it, that mightsound like they're having to
grow up too fast.
I don't think it's that at all.
I think it's that they recognizethat sometimes you have to
really take responsibility foryourself I think that it creates
a lot of empathy for them.
will never forget the firsttime, my son was in a class with
a student who was diabetic andhe got to go to the nurse with

(01:08:16):
him have his insulin checked.
And my son came home from schooland he said, I got to be his
buddy today.
And because we both are familiarwith the nurse's office, right?
But he just felt this, like,leadership over, I get to be,
you know, with this respectbecause I understand the
experiences of others and Ithink that's been a really

(01:08:37):
amazing thing And then I guess Iwould also just say this is
something we say in our houseall the time Of all of the
problems that we could have beengiven in this world, right of
all of the conditions This oneis treatable.
This one is manageable, right?
We have medication that can canreverse the effects of food

(01:08:58):
allergies when, when weaccidentally ingest them.
there are so many,, other typesof, of problems and medical
conditions that we could havethat we wouldn't feel the same
way.
So, I always tell my kids, it'sreally inconvenient, but I would
take this over so many otherthings.
And it's just keeping thatpositive attitude about it and
knowing that there are a lot of,people who have it much worse

(01:09:19):
than we do.
And that really keeps it inperspective when you feel the
burden of it all.
Yeah.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-2024 (01:09:25):
I can see all the things you're
describing and in many of thekids that I meet and know, and I
think it's a beautiful, sideeffect isn't probably a good
word, but bonus.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1 (01:09:35):
bonus for sure.
It has created some realsuperpowers in my kids that I'm
very proud of, and I hope thatit's a part of them that they
carry with them forever thatthey can use when they, even
when they are advocating ontheir own someday.

squadcaster-9e53_1_10-21-20 (01:09:49):
I'm sure they will.
Thank you so much for taking allthis time.
Thanks for all that you shared.

sarah-hornung--she-her-_1_1 (01:09:55):
me.
Here are a few things you can doright away if you've been
inspired by listening to Sarahand all of her great ideas.
Number one, check her out onInstagram at TheEagerTeacher and
on her blog, TheEagerTeacher.
com.
Number two, whether you've hadgreat or difficult school
experiences or some combinationof both, this is a great episode

(01:10:18):
to share with your child'steachers and school
administrators or even thoseinvolved in running
organizations outside of theschool, especially if you're
seeing a need for a deeperunderstanding of both food
allergy safety and the emotionalexperiences of kids with food
allergies.
And number three, Sarah and Iare both available for speaking
engagements and consultation.

(01:10:39):
We've even enjoyed teaming updoing a bit of that work
together and we would both behappy to help your school or
your organization.
the content of this Podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.

(01:11:01):
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.