Music as Medicine: Michael Sawers Discusses Food Allergies & OCD

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Michael Sawers, a talented young musician who opens up about his experiences navigating life with food allergies and OCD. From his teenage years to college and now young adulthood, he shares the challenges and triumphs of managing his health while striving for independence.

Join us as we delve into:

• The impact of food allergies on his mental health and daily life.
• Strategies for transitioning to independent allergy management as a young adult.
• The healing role of music in coping with anxiety and OCD.

Resources mentioned: 

1. Food Allergy Canada: Food Allergy Canada - Food Allergy Canada
2.  Equal Eats Dining Cards: Food Allergy Cards | Translation Cards in 50 Languages – Equal Eats
3. Michael’s Music: https://linktr.ee/themasprojectmusic & on Instagram @the.mas.project
4.  International OCD Foundation | Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP)
5. Safe and Sound Protocol (Vagus Nerve Music Program): Safe & Sound Protocol — Amanda Whitehouse Phd

Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com

Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
[e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker (00:00):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we
dive into the complex world offood allergy anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..

(00:22):
Michael Sars is an amazing youngadult and food allergy advocate
who has been working with FoodAllergy Canada to support youth
with food allergies and helpingto spread awareness.
He's also a songwriter and amusician who records and
performs under the name The MassProject.
Michael is here today to talkabout his experiences with high
school, the dreaded topic ofdating and kissing, his journey

(00:44):
with OCD and its connection tohis food allergies, and
adjusting to college andindependent life as an adult.
thAnk you so much for being heretoday., Would you start just by
telling us a little bit aboutyourself?

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (00:56):
Well, thank you for having me here on
your show.
my name is Mike and I amanaphylactic to dairy, eggs,
peanuts and tree nuts.
And I have been since, you know,the very beginning.
some of my food allergyinvolvement revolves around like
volunteering with Food AllergyCanada.
working with youth to help themunderstand not really the, not

(01:19):
really the like safety barriersbut more of the social obstacles
with having food allergies.
I think I grew up a lot with alot of trial and error.
Through my food allergies,whether it was with dating or
living at university alone orbirthday parties.
I'm sure I think you mentionedyour kids have food allergies as
well.
It's difficult to sort of be theallergy kid or like advocate for

(01:41):
yourself.
So we really work a lot on like,Sharing your feelings, making
sure you know that there's otherpeople who are, it's not a weird
thing to have food allergies.
It's very normal.
It's very serious, but itdoesn't have to like define how
you operate and we work withthem and, and I do some other
volunteer stuff like I've, beenon CBC with Matt Galloway for a,
for 10 seconds of fame on, youknow, some new food allergy

(02:03):
research and I'll be, on anotherFood Allergy Canada panel with
a, with an allergist as well.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (02:11):
So how did you get involved with
them?

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (02:13):
I'm 25, so I'm about three years
roughly out of university.
And, but I remember like I waswatching this video and it was
some sort of like politicalvideo of some kind on YouTube,
but they said like, if youreally want to like, You know,
you're feeling stuck, go dosomething for your community.
And like, I've heard this stuffover and over again.

(02:33):
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
But this, I forget who it was,but for whatever reason it
struck me and I applied to belike a, it's called like a food
allergy pal for food allergyCanada.
My mom has been trying to get meto do this for a while.
And so I finally applied and Iloved it.
Like, you know, it became a, Iwas more involved in with it a
year ago and a few years leadingup to it.

(02:54):
But, You know, it really becamea opportunity, like something
that I look forward to.
I was supposed to be therehelping the kids with their
social obstacles, but make themfeel better.
But I felt better talking aboutallergies as well.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (03:06):
That's one of the things that people I
talk to will share, and you cantell me if this is true for you,
but I think we process our ownstuff by having to think through
it and express it to otherpeople, and like maybe realizing
I learned this or this is howI've grown.

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (03:18):
These kids would talk about, um, you
know, maybe sometimes there'd befood allergy bullies, but
sometimes it was lighter stuff.
It was just like, I don't likehaving food allergies.
I feel like the odd one out.
And I.
And I would be like, I totallyget that.
I feel like that too.
And then I'd be like, wow, Iactually feel better showing
that I'm not supposed to be the,the mentor.
So I think, you know, it makesthe kids feel better.

(03:38):
It makes the mentors feelbetter.
I didn't have something likethis growing up, to share with
them.
So, you know, it's, it was a lotof trial and error.
With my friends with allergiestalk about like how you're kind
of it's so easy to becomefriends with other people with
food allergies because you'relike, Oh, you get it.
You understand what has tohappen to keep yourself safe.
And you know how you're I mean,my girlfriend has so much work

(04:02):
to make I make sure I'm safe bylike, make sure she's being
careful of allergies and stuff.
So it really impacts the peoplearound you.
So, you know, it takes this sortof mental effort and and actual
behavioral effort to it.
Be safe.
And when you meet someone likethat, it's like, Whoa, this is
you get it.
And I think even when you meetpeople of any age, you're just,
there's that connection.
I think.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (04:21):
Yeah, and that level of trust that a
little bit more

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (04:24):
Exactly.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (04:25):
from the get go.
I think we approach peoplegenerally expecting, we have to
for our safety, expecting thatthey don't understand it and
it's our job to, to keepourselves safe, not that they
know and can help

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (04:35):
That can be a draining approach to
always be on the advocacy side,and always be the educator, and
always be, you know, there's alot of, uh, problems in the
world, but I think somethingthat people with suffering food
allergies know and recognize isthat they always have to be
their own best advocate forthemselves, and that can be
tiring and frustratingsometimes.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (04:54):
It can.
Is that part of, you know, yousaid there was some trial and
error and mistakes along theway.
Was it due to not advocating foryourself or what, looking back,
have you learned about

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (05:05):
I think, I think as, Partially a
mix of, yes, the advocacy piece.
I think the lack of advocacy cansometimes get tough.
I think you also start to like,learn that it takes a lot of
effort to explain allergies.

(05:25):
So you sort of, Learn to pickand choose of like, okay, like
who am I going to give the spielwith, who can I trust?
Who is somebody who's going tobe like on my side?
I'm like, is this person goingto get it?
If they're not, I'm not going tobother.
I think like growing up, thattrial and error came through
like dating.
Like I remember, um, one of mygirlfriends, I, we kissed and
then I was like, Oh no.

(05:45):
Like she had.
Uh, like dairy and she justdrank a hot chocolate on
anaphylactic to dairy.
And that was really stressful,you know, using my EpiPen after
that.
And I think that was a mix oflike understanding the
difference between anxiety andanaphylaxis.
Like, I don't, like, I remembercalling, you know, 901 and
they're, I don't think you'rehaving anaphylaxis.

(06:06):
So it's just like reallyunderstanding and trusting
yourself and, you know, makingsure you can recognize the signs
and symptoms for yourself, notjust from a conceptual level, I
think was a big learning curvefor me as well.
Um, and then some of the othertrial and errors, I think living
alone at university was like, Ilived in residence.
I think that was really, thatwas a crash course in advocacy

(06:26):
because every day I'd speak tothe chef, you know, keep me
safe, keep me safe, keep mesafe.
And, you know, even younger,just choosing and learning like,
you know, what, What friendsshould I and can I trust with,
with allergies and understandingit, which ones maybe I can't.
And I think those are some ofthose trial and errors I think
are like pretty universal tosuffering with food allergies.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (06:47):
I would love it if you don't mind
and maybe we can start younger

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (06:50):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17 (06:51):
through.
But, you know, you mentioned inthe beginning about your mom's
always been telling you, youshould sign up for this thing.
But nobody wants to listen

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (06:56):
Ha

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (06:56):
right?
So all of us allergy moms knowthe

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (06:59):
ha.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (06:59):
And that's why I was so excited to
have you on, because I want kidsto

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (07:03):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (07:03):
you.
You're not the same.
You're not a parent.
You're, you're more of, youknow, you're, you're a grownup,
but you're more of a peer.
You're not as far removed fromit.
And so I'd love for kids to beable to hear it from your
perspective, starting with thatfriend thing, because I think
that is the first barrier thatthe kids hit as they start to
get older.
Right.
It's like not wanting to bedifferent or having to ask

(07:25):
people necessarily toaccommodate them differently.
So what do you tell the kidsthat you've worked with, or what
would you tell yourself

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (07:31):
I think that is that one of the
first barriers that youencounter.
I think, you know, I would sharewith myself that like, At some
point in your life, you're goingto have to advocate for
yourself, whether it's foodallergies, whether it's for that
next job, whether it's, youknow, for, for, for anything in
life and career relationships.
And I think the thing that Inotice a lot with younger kids

(07:53):
with food allergies is theybecome independent.
because they have to advocatefor themselves.
And I think, you know, there is,I like to think of it like
there's a silver lining oflearning to advocate for
yourself.
It's tough.
Um, I'm doing it at an earlierage than most other kids have to
do it.
But that silver lining is like,you know, like, yes, it'd
probably be easier withoutallergies, but you have

(08:13):
allergies and learning that anddoing and practicing that hard
work to advocate yourself.
It makes you more independent.
And I think as you get older,you start to realize that like
how much of a, positive andbenefit that is.
To, you know, just being out andabout in the world., I speak
with some of my peers who are inthe Food Allergy Canada
Mentorship Program, and we seethat these kids are so
independent so quickly becausethey have to be.

(08:34):
And, you know, there are, youknow, silver linings to having
food allergies there.
I don't think there's manypersonally, but that is
definitely one that is a goodone.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (08:43):
Yeah.
are there others that come tomind?

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (08:45):
I have a couple.
One is that food allergies are awonderful filter for who should
be really close to you in yourlife.
Um, I always like, you know, Ithink if you start to date and
you realize like who's good withallergies and who aren't, and
it's just like, I think myamazing partner is just so good
with food allergies.
She's wonderful.

(09:05):
And it's just like, I remembertelling my mom, I'm going to
About starting to date this girland one of her first questions
was like, is she good with herurologies?
And it's such an important part,right?

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (09:16):
You're right, it's such a good gauge of
how is this

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (09:18):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (09:19):
me and how well are they going to

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (09:20):
Yeah

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (09:21):
and, not that they have to put us
first, but our safety, right,

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (09:24):
In all relationships and
friendships and romanticrelationships and work
relationships like it varies tothe extent but I think you Start
to realize that like thestrongest relationships are the
ones where you're sort ofsacrificing something for each
other to make sure the otherperson benefits in some sort of
way.
And I think, you know, withfriendships, I've had met such
amazing friends that I'll goover to their house and they're

(09:45):
making sure that the dishes arewashed if we're going to be
cooking dinner and their handsare washed and you know, the
peanut butter is put away in thecupboards and just like the
little things like that are, arevery, um, they mean a lot
because it's your safety and youknow, what is, what is more
important to you than your ownhealth?
It's, it's hard to beat that.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (10:02):
right?
what better way for someone toshow that they care about you
than treating that as importantas it really is.
So you mentioned then about yourgirlfriend now, but obviously it
didn't go so smoothly when youfirst started dating.
I think that's one of thehardest things and the one of
the things that I want kids tohear more

michael_1_08-14-202 (10:20):
Absolutely.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171 (10:21):
talking about those early years because
they, that's the last thing theywant their moms talking to them
about is if you

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (10:27):
Exactly.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (10:28):
So you had a reaction from, was it

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (10:31):
Um, no, it wasn't.
And it wasn't my currentgirlfriend.
It was actually a previous, um,previous partner, but, um, it is
absolutely, it's a hard thing totalk about with your kids.
It's a hard thing for kids toeven listen about, uh, listen to
and hear about.
Um, I think the biggest thingthat I learned and it's like, If
I heard somebody, if I wasyounger and heard somebody

(10:51):
telling you this, I would, youknow, maybe have, maybe say it's
easy to say and it's true, uh,harder to do, but it's just
like, always ask, always beupfront about your food
allergies and have thatcommunication.
It's a little bit awkward, andit's not really fair that you
have to do that and advocate foryourself in these romantic
settings.
Um, but the reality is, is like,you'll save yourself a lot of

(11:13):
pain down the line if you ripthe band aid off and advocate
strongly for yourself.
And it doesn't, it doesn't haveto be in a prescriptive manner,
but in a way that feels genuineand right to you, but it's also
keeping you safe.
Um, that's probably what I wouldhave told my younger self.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (11:30):
Well, and I think, again, it's hard
for them, people to believe, youknow, when they're young people
hearing it from older people,but it's, I feel like it's
always awkward, not just forkids and teenagers, but even as
you get older, like first kissesare just so why not?
Like you said, just rip off thebandaid and dive in a little
sooner as far as how's this

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (11:47):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (11:47):
treat me.
It's already awkward anyway.
It's not like it was going to bea movie scene, when you're 15
years old, kissing somebody forthe first time.
Anyways.

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (11:56):
that sort of perspective because it's
like food allergies are notlike, it's complicated enough as
it is, you know, food allergiesare just one sprinkle of the
complexity of relationships.

amanda_2_08-14-2024 (12:06):
Absolutely.
One of the things that I wouldlove for you to talk about, if
you don't mind, because, I havehad other kids who've had
anaphylactic reactions fromkissing and then actually
navigating the rules of whatworks for them.
do you mind sharing how youmanage that?
Like what's the, how does itwork?

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (12:21):
um, you know, this is not meant to
be prescriptive.
It's just what works for me.
Um, and, and I know you wereasking that too.
I just feel the need to share.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (12:30):
Yes.

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (12:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Absolutely.
Whether I like it or not,unfortunately, our shared
responsibility to an extent in arelationship I think personally
like you have to ultimately beresponsible for your own
allergies But like there isgoing to be stress and pressure
I think on your partner to anextent to make sure you're
keeping you safe Just like youknow, if they had a peanut

(12:51):
butter cookie, they probablycan't kiss you right afterwards
And things like that.
So that that understanding ishas been helpful for me because
you know I, I feel like maybe alittle bit guilty that I'm like,
Oh, well, it's like my ownissue.
But, you know, I think if youjust look at a lot of
relationships, like it justcomes back to like that just
shared understanding of helpingeach other with their needs.

(13:12):
So that understanding isalleviated some of my own
stress, we consider each otherlike allergy safe or like we
consider her allergy safe ornot.
So it's just like, Oh, like, areyou allergy safe?
If I want to like kiss her or,or, or like, or she has
something on her hands and we'reabout to like cook food
together.
It's like, Oh, are you allergysafe?
Yes or no.
And that's sort of an easier tipto be like, what have you eaten
today?
Like, we're not like listing itout.

(13:33):
And it's just like, Oh, like, doyou think it's allergy safe?
And if it is, we go with it.
And if it's not, you know, maybeshe'll, um, take action and
things like that.
She does.
That's really sweet.
It's like.
You know, use brush your teethand using mouthwash to make sure
that like she's safe if I kissher and washing your hands.
Um, and it's something that Ithink takes time to get used to
and like what your comfort zoneis with that as well.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (13:57):
Yeah.
Well, one of the things that, Imean, it's, she

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (13:59):
It is.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (13:59):
This is not a comment about her, but
one of the things I've talked toa lot of teens about who are
like, how can I ask them likethat?
And I, I kind of say to them,People should really brush their
teeth after they eat anyway,

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (14:11):
It's

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (14:11):
not,

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (14:11):
not,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (14:12):
you're not

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (14:12):
you're not asking that much.
I remember I said the exact samething to my dad.
I said, how can I ask mygirlfriend?
I do that when I was like maybe17 or 18.
And he said, Michael, whodoesn't want fresh breath?

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (14:24):
Just,

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (14:24):
Yeah, exactly.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (14:26):
yeah.
so it sounds like she doesn'thave any food

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (14:29):
She doesn't.
She has a brother with a peanutallergy.
Um, so she's like sort of beenin that world a little bit
already.
Um, but they're so sweet.
Like her mom comes over or I'llcome over and her mom will like,
Make sure I have allergyfriendly dinner and and it's
just very they put a lot ofeffort into that and I think you
know we were talking a bit aboutthe positives of food allergies

(14:50):
and I think one other thing toois like Being open and honest
about my food allergies hashelped other people take their
allergies a little bit moreseriously if if needed You know
her her I think like her familyfriend or something was was also
had some allergies and then sawme like advocating for myself
and like he takes allergies justa little bit more seriously now

(15:11):
because it's it's sort of thatreminder when you meet Somebody
who has had a bunch ofanaphylactic reactions be like,
oh That's it's sort of easy toforget that that can happen if
it hasn't happened for a whileso just It's important to be
careful.
So I think that's anotherpositive.
I like,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (15:25):
that's great.
And it sounds like, you know,back to kind of this being a
gauge for the people that youlet into your life.
I think that's an importantthing when you're in a
relationship with someone likenot just how do we get along,
but how is the family?
So it's a good measure of.
Sounding like a great familysurrounding her,

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (15:41):
That's awesome.
you know, you mentioned to youand to many kids and adults with
food allergies, it feels unfair,but that almost feels like a
trade off that it's not easier.
It's not comfortable, but it's,it's worth it.
It's worthwhile, it's reallygood to know, have this gauge of
the quality of the people inyour life

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (16:00):
I think being a, like, I think as
also as you get older, as, asI've gotten older, at least like
I've started to realize thateverybody else, a lot of other,
my friends deal with their ownother personal health issues
that we make accommodations for.
And, you know, they can't eat acertain thing because of
religious restrict dietaryrestrictions or because of, you

(16:20):
know, Personal ethical choicesor even just food aside, like
maybe some of them aren't aslike mobile and we have to like
adapt what activities we do.
And like, I think as you, as Igot out of my like bubble of,
you know, growing up in, I don'tknow, one neighborhood in
Calgary, Alberta, it's like youstarted to meet so many other
people that have these needs.

(16:41):
And it's just like, okay, likethey make accommodations for me.
I make accommodations for them.
The world goes round.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (16:47):
Yeah, well, and I was thinking when
you were talking about that, um,you know, in terms of the
relationship with yourgirlfriend, I always say that in
terms of how we operate in theworld and in our closer
relationships, that that isactually what a healthy
relationship is, is, isinterdependency, codependency
where I rely

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (17:03):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (17:04):
you know, in this instance, keep my
allergies safe, but we'reinterdependent on each other.
It's an important skill to askpeople for help and to let
people help you.
And a lot of people strugglewith it.
So that's, that's, that's,that's, that's, that's, that's,
that's, that's, You know, thisis the reason that maybe you
have to ask, or people with foodallergies have to ask, but
everyone has to ask people tohelp them in order to have
healthy relationships

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (17:23):
It's true.
And I think it's, a, it's athing that I have to learn
independent of my allergies tolike ask for that when needed.
And then I think, you know,having the allergies is, makes
the process that does a littlebit easier.
I

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17 (17:37):
thinking back to those teenage years
before we move past that, whatcan we do better for kids who
are, for teenagers who are stillobviously depending

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (17:45):
Yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (17:46):
their lives?
It's tricky and I feel like,like I said, you have that
perspective,

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (17:51):
I think what my parents did a
really good job with me, makingme advocate for myself in a
controlled setting first andbeing the driver of the
conversation.
Like when, when I left home andI went to university and grew up
a little bit more, like I hadthose skills and.
They were refined and usefulskills.

(18:12):
So a good example is like whenwe went to dinner together, I
would be the person drivingconversation and talking to the
manager about my food allergiesand making sure it was safe.
When we went to functions andweddings together, I was the
person speaking to the cateringmanager and saying, I'm allergic
to this.
Can you help me?
My parents were there if neededand need to be tapped in.
But I think what some saysomething that I noticed in In

(18:34):
younger kids, especially in myfamily, it was like my brother's
food I would use as well, likewhen my parents would try to be
that person and do that thingthat the kid already knows what
to do, it sort of created a bitof conflict and tension, but if
they sort of like let the reinsgo a little bit and we're still
there to make sure things weresafe, because that's a parent's
job when kids are young, then itsort of gave that kid the

(18:57):
confidence and independence thatthey want, but also gave the
parents like that, um, assurancethat they could still make sure
that things are safe for theirkid.
I think that was something thatwas really helpful.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (19:09):
think that's important gradually doing
it, I had a thought earlier whenyou said so many food allergy
kids become

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (19:14):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (19:15):
so young, and I think that's true.
And then I think there is asubset of kids who are

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (19:20):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (19:20):
and not necessarily that it's their
fault or the parents fault.
But that's what we don't want,right, is for you to try to head
off to college, to university,and you haven't had that

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (19:30):
Exactly.
And that's a tough position tobe in.
And, you know, food allergiesdon't have to hold you back.
Um, in some cases, like theyhave to, but I think if you're
somebody with anaphylacticfibrology, there's a lot of
things you can do, making sureyou're smart, you're always
carrying your EpiPen with you nomatter what, you have a second
one if you're eating out of foodand, you know, all the things
that your listeners already knowall about, it can be sort of

(19:54):
Empowering to be like, Oh, I cando, I can go out to dinner and I
can see safe and I can be withmy friends out and about and I
can, I can do this and you know,I really feel for the people who
are, who physically or medicallycannot, but for those who can
and feel like they don't havethe confidence to do that, I
think it's a really importantthing to do.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (20:11):
I agree.
And I think it's reassuring forpeople to hear and know that
some, you know, you have quite afew allergies and, um, to hear
that people do that safely andfeel good

michael_1_08-14-202 (20:19):
Absolutely.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (20:20):
Is a good

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (20:21):
Yeah, it is doable.
I am severely anaphylactic todairy, eggs, peanuts, tree nuts.
And I, I think I'm on the sideof the spectrum of like more
adventurous with my allergiesthan some people might be
comfortable with, but I, I goout and try lots of new
restaurants all the time.
I'm living downtown Toronto andit, it's a fun, it's fun to do
that with your girlfriend

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (20:41):
good.
Well, back us up then, if youwould, to how did that transit,
cause you're there now, buttransition then from high school
into college or to university.
how did it go?

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (20:51):
Overall, it went very, very well.
Definitely had a couple ofbumps.
I think, so for context, Istayed at one of the residences
there.
So completely away from home,like living in my own little
tiny shack in the apartmentbuilding.
And, uh, it was really fun and Igot to have like the full
residence experience despite myfood allergies.

(21:13):
I think a few things that keptme safe and a couple of
reasonings for the bumps, onething that kept me safe was like
scoping at the universitybeforehand and like using that
as a criteria for whether usingtheir food safety precautions as
a criteria for whether I go tothat university or not, because
I really wanted that residenceexperience.
So what we did is like, we, wevisit the university and we
spoke with the catering headsof.

(21:35):
Uh, management or whoever theymight be and made sure that
like, are you comfortable withthis?
Like the same thing you do it ata restaurant.
Like, have you dealt with foodallergies before?
Are you comfortable?
And the list goes on.
And once we found one that I wascomfortable with, We stuck with
it and created a process and forme, that process was like
keeping it simple.
Number one of just like my, myfoods that I ate every day.

(21:56):
The second one was every singleday, always making sure I spoke
with like one of the decisionmakers who, um, have that only
because they have that capacityto worry about your food
allergies.
Doing other tasks and, um,always, no matter what, bring
them in, no matter what,everywhere.
A couple of bumps, I had twoallergic reactions that year and

(22:17):
a couple of the bumps came fromthings that were, like, pretty
much out of my control.
One was Um, one was that theingredients was mislabeled on
one of the, from themanufacturer or something and,
and like it got switched aroundand then I, I hadn't much

(22:38):
reaction.
There was actually milk in thebreakfast sausage, even though
the label said there wasn't,there was some sort of mix up
there.
the second one.
Was that kiss with the exgirlfriend that I think I had an
allergy thing and I don't likeit wasn't her fault It was you
know, it was it was all all mystress.
I think is like the paramedicsaid I was fine And that was

(22:58):
that that stress was so big Iremember having my first
allergic reaction at universityand I needed to speak with a
psychologist that there I'vebeen in therapy before but like
This one was like, I really needsomeone to talk to, like, I'm
scared to even eat anything,and, and, um, it got so much
better after I just realized,like, you know, the, the
learnings that I had, like, Iused my EpiPen by myself for the

(23:19):
first time, I kept myself safe,I did everything I need to do,
like, you go into game mode andkeep yourself safe, and so.
You know, but what I was sohappy to hear is I went back.
If I was, I got very close withall the kitchen staff there.
They all knew my name.
They're all so sweet andfriendly.
And I came back the next yearand, you know, that was the
first year, um, in 2017 thatthey had like a very, very

(23:40):
serious allergy on their handswith me.
I came back the next year andthey had zero anaphylactic food
allergies, despite havingmultiple people in the residence
building with anaphylactic foodallergies.
Um, and I think food safety atuniversities has only gone up.
Food allergy Canada is very bigon food safety.
I know McMaster, a friend ofMcMaster with severe food
allergies made it with noallergies like they are

(24:02):
particularly good.
And I think the safety andawareness is only evolving.
I think if I'm a parentwondering whether I send my kid
with food allergies, obviouslyit is a personal family and
medical decision, but I It wasone of the best years of my life
being at residence, andultimately I knew going into it,
there was some element of risk.
I had my EpiPens with me, I knewwhat to do, I used it, and I had

(24:26):
just as fun at residence as allof the other people, despite my
food allergies.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (24:31):
Good.
I'm glad you had such a

michael_1_08-14-2024_17 (24:32):
Thanks.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (24:33):
and it, for people to know that it's
possible is so

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (24:35):
Exactly.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (24:36):
you know, it's a big shift.

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (24:38):
Like, Oh my God, I'm gonna have to,
it's going to be like going outto dinner every single day for
breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Like, Oh my God, how am I goingto do this?
But then I got systems.
I was like, okay, in themorning, like we're doing like
some simpler foods, like oatmealstuff.
I don't really need to triple,double check.
It's packaged.
It's fine.
I had a mini fridge in my roomfor some leftovers.
So I didn't have to always betalking with the kitchen.
Buying some of my own food so Ican make them.

(25:00):
I don't know if you're allowedtoasters and res.
I don't know if I had one ornot.
Whatever it was.
And, you know, making sure I canmake my own little snacks if I
had to.
And then for dinners, you know,making sure like they were so
sweet.
They always let me cut the line.
Like these universities arereally moving mountains for you
because they know how muchyou're paying to attend school
and residents.
And they know that like foodallergies are becoming so much

(25:20):
more commonplace that I was apriority in that kitchen, which
always felt like a very goodthing.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (25:26):
That's amazing.
And I have heard, um, you know,young adults who are making that
transition get, they get a goodtalk from the people when they
interview and then they show upand they don't feel that they're
treated that way.
And I think that is importantthat you noted that, that you
felt they were treating you thatway,

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (25:40):
I haven't spoken with a lot of,
um, you know, like you said,youth that have had that
experience and that's sad thatthat happens.
And I think that made me feellucky that they had such a
strong and good, like, despitethat one mix up such a good,
strong food safety program.
And I, I remember literallybecoming friends with a couple
of them.
It was weird being like friendswith a 40 year old or 45 year

(26:02):
old and you're, you're 18.
Um, but they were so nice and,you know, they treated me like,
Very, very seriously and verysafely, but still very, um,
welcoming, welcoming way aswell.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (26:14):
You mentioned about kind of having
to get to that mindset aftersome of those reactions and get
some support, which is awesome.
I encourage everyone to do that.
Um, especially if you've had ananaphylactic reaction, it's a
traumatic experience, even ifyou're okay.
that support is awesome.
And you mentioned then havingto.
Shift that mindset to like Ihave to balance this there's
there's always that risk But Ican't you know, can't hide away

(26:36):
and and not ever have any riskSo I was wondering if you could
talk about that carrying thatforward into now

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (26:44):
I actually feel like when people
ask me this, I don't Um, and Iwill share absolutely my
thoughts, but I don't know whatto say because I always worry
that like my risk tolerance isgoing to get other people in
like trouble with theirallergies.
Um, so like this, this is whatworks for me.
I don't think it's a perfectsystem, but like, I, I feel good

(27:04):
about it.
So hopefully inspires people tolike, make sure that their
systems work for them.
But I always say, cause somepeople are allergic to like some
very, very serious.
Long list like I never know whatworks for everyone, but for me
Yeah, but for me, the risk, Idefinitely take on risk by going

(27:27):
out to restaurants, and by Ithink treating my allergies in a
way hopefully that's not holdingme back, such as I'm planning a
trip to Europe right now, andyou know, traveling with food
allergies is a new,internationally is a brand new
thing for me, and I think thattakes on an element of risk, and
my mom's nervous about me goingto Italy, and I don't want it to

(27:48):
hold me back.
I really don't.
And I feel fortunate to be in aposition where my allergies
don't hold me back.
Cause I think like we weretalking about, some people don't
have that luxury.
Um, and for me, I think Ibalance it mentally.
I'm like, okay.
My goal is to live a life asmuch as I can without my
allergies holding me back.
I know I always need my backupplan, which is my EpiPen.

(28:10):
So it's like I don't doanything, I will not take on any
risk whatsoever or try myabsolute hardest not to if I
don't have my EpiPens with me.
Like I, if I'm going to the gym,if I'm going for a run later at
night and not even eating food,like I always try to tell
myself, bring my EpiPen nomatter what.
It's just like a part of my bodyat this point.
And I really feel like that is areally good baseline for me to

(28:30):
practice.
Um, and feel comfortable takingon some risk because I know I
have a backup plan, um,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (28:37):
right?

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (28:38):
and, and, and then doing that, I, I,
you know, I use a mixture oflike logic and gut feeling when
I'm out to just tell if I shouldtake on that risk, like, When I
speak with people, like,immediately and within the
first, like, five seconds, justbased on their body language, I
can tell, and what they say, andthe tone of voice, I can tell,
like, if they're confident aboutaccommodating food allergies, if

(29:01):
they've had experience doing itbefore, and if they have a
process in place to keep mesafe.
And, like, right away, I'm like,I will actively be like, I can't
eat here.
And it doesn't mean I leave withthe whole table.
It's just like, if I'm with myfriends, like, I Part of that
risk is like, maybe it doesn'twork out for me, and I'll have a
drink instead of eating there.
Just, you know, running throughmy mental list, which involves

(29:23):
that sort of body languageanalysis and that actual
practical analysis, if they havethat process and procedures in
place to deal with foodallergies.
I think I use that as a roughUnderstanding of if that risk is
something that's probablyunlikely to happen.
And if it is, I will feelcomfortable sort of like taking
that on.
Because I think the thing withfood allergy is like the risk is

(29:43):
always severe.
It just depends on thelikelihood of that risk
happening.
Um, well for food, foranaphylaxis at least.
I always just ask myself oflike, are the pros outweighing
the cons?
Like, is this worth the riskthat I'm taking on?
Is this meal with my, should Ijust skip the meal if I don't
feel sure about it?
The answer is probably yes.
But if I feel good about it,like, let's go for it.

(30:05):
I have my, my EpiPens just incase.
And this has been working forme.
Um, I don't know if it'll workfor everyone, but like, I
haven't, I mean, knock on wood,I haven't used my EpiPen for,
for quite some time now, quite afew years, and I'm really
enjoying it.
I'm excited for my trip toItaly.
I'm going to download, youinterviewed Kyle, and he has
like the Equal Eats travelcards.

(30:25):
So I'm gonna go purchase acouple cards that have
translated all of my foodallergies in perfect Italian,
um, and really try it.
That's my new allergy challengeis to go to Italy with severe
food allergies.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (30:38):
Yeah, you can do it.
I'll put the link to cut to theequal eats cards.
Um, that Kyle Dine has createdin the show notes I was hoping
you could talk more about yourmusic because, I listened to
some of your music and I have totell you, so your song, Scared
Fearless, maybe I'm projectingonto it, but I was thinking
about allergies and, you know,what we had chatted about when I

(31:00):
listened to that.
how does your experience withthis go into the music that you
write

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (31:04):
I really appreciate that question.
I thank you.
I'm glad you listened to mysong.
That's, that's one of like asmall amount of people who've
listened to my music.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (31:14):
I listen to many of your songs and
they're great.
We're going to make sure peopleknow

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (31:17):
Thank you.
I appreciate that a lot.
Yeah.
So I have my artist named themass project that I'm trying to
like make my music and record itand get it out there.
Um, and I think one thing I'velearned about like my
songwriting is I've always,yeah, like, like you said, like
writing from a very personalspace and.
Foodology is definitely, andthat song, Scared Feelers, has
kind of popped up.

(31:38):
I, I, I've struggled very muchand it's, you know, I found very
specific therapy.
It's gotten a lot better, butwith OCD, like I've clinically,
you know, real OCD, not justlike, oh, like I'm so OCD about
this, but like, you know, realOCD.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (31:51):
right.

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (31:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Like obsessive thoughtscharacterized by compulsions
meant meant to get rid of theanxiety created by those
obsessive thoughts and feelingsof urges in the first place and
scared fearless is a song aboutOCD.
And I I've done I'm just like,you know, having that habitual
part of the therapy for OCD isto sort of habituate yourself to
the false alarms going on.

(32:13):
And I kind of had this It's likea play on words of like, getting
scared, um, like to scared, likehelpless, like scared that
you're so numb, like learnedhelplessness almost, but you're
so scared that you actuallybecome fearless about it, and

(32:34):
that's kind of like what thatexperience was with OCD, but I
think the way this all loopsback to some food allergies is
I've always wondered like wheresome of my OCD comes from, and I
don't know if And I'm not up todate on any of the research
about OCD, like I know there isa big genetic component as well
to it, but I've always wondered,like, my food allergies has made
me extremely vigilant andsometimes overly so, and I do

(32:56):
wonder if that has negativelycontributed to that, maybe some
of those obsessive tendenciesI've had genetically, because I
think, like, when I look back onmy life, like, food allergies
has been So, yeah.
The food allergy worry is such asuch a big part of my mental
space every day, you know, everytime you eat something for

(33:16):
anybody to put something, put apiece of food in their mouth and
be like, is this safe?
It's it can be draining.
Um, and it can make you veryextra vigilant.
So I, you know, I don't thinkit's helpful from a medical
perspective to punch it totheorize about where what drove
the OCD.
But I think, you know, it's in,yeah.
Interesting emotionally at leastthey'd be like, I wonder if my

(33:37):
food allergies kind ofcontributed to that and because
I can definitely see ithappening.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (33:42):
Yeah.
And I think I get what you'resaying.
It doesn't solve

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (33:44):
Yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17 (33:45):
problem, the medical problem, but I think
in terms of your

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (33:47):
yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (33:48):
and many people with whatever we
struggle with, there's a lot ofguilt and self blame and you
know, sometimes some shame.
And I think it can be helpful toexplore that.
And there is a lot of researchthat OCD and a lot of other.
Um, anxiety, you know, categoryof disorders are higher in

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (34:03):
very interesting.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (34:04):
Um, so, and it makes sense, um,
biologically, because the, theVegas nerve is the nerve that
turns

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (34:12):
Okay.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (34:13):
right?
That puts us into fight orflight.
It's also the nerve thatmodulates the immune

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (34:17):
Mm hmm.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (34:18):
So if it is hypersensitized, if it
has had traumatic experiencesand knowing that it needs to be
more vigilant for danger, thatdoesn't just make the allergy
response, it also connects tothe anxiety response in the

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (34:31):
That is so interesting.
I need to look more into thatbecause that's very cool.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (34:36):
share some things with you.
Um, and I, I put some links intoo for people who are
listening, but I think it'svalidating to know that like
it's, and some people that I'veworked with who, who manage
that, um, kind of feel like,okay, I didn't just draw the
short straw on the allergies.
I got OCD too.
And I have all of these thingsand they're not five different
things.
They certainly are in terms ofhow you have to manage them, but

(34:57):
they're, they're kind of onegiant jumbled up ball of, you
know,

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (35:01):
Yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (35:01):
card

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (35:02):
that is so interesting it and And
another thing related to thatis, like, I was at a food
allergy, like, conference herein Toronto, um, and I met a, I
met a therapist who specializesin food allergies, I think
you're the second, uh,psychologist that I've met that,
And she, you know, this personat the conference specialized in
like food allergies just likeyou.

(35:22):
And she was telling me shesometimes uses exposure response
prevention therapy to help.
Younger people with their foodallergies stress, which was so
interesting because I useexposure response prevention
therapy for my OCD.
So I always thought there wasmaybe some sort of connection
there.

amanda_2_08-14-2024 (35:37):
Absolutely.
And that's with the

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (35:39):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (35:39):
work with, um, with OCD, the other
part of what I was going to kindof touch on with what you were
mentioning about it is there'sthat, there's that biological
component, but then if you thinkabout what you have to do to
manage and

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (35:51):
Yes,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (35:52):
safe from your food allergies, It
does look similar to aritualistic, like kind of a
compulsive behavior.
Well, I have to, I have to check

michael_1_08-14-2024_1 (35:59):
exactly.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (36:00):
I check the label at the store.
I check the label when I gethome, you know, so it, then we
learned to associate that withsafety.
So then of course, when you feelanxious, you want to do
something similar.
And of course everyone's,actions are different.
They don't always look likethat, but you know what I'm
saying?
It, you can see the connectionbetween how repeating a behavior
becomes a sense of safety

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (36:18):
for sure.
And even when like, I'm at thestore reading ingredients, there
have definitely been times whereI'm like, I think I just need to
stop reading this ingredientlist at this point.
Like, and that even like OCDaside, it can just be like that
constant vigilance is, I thinkit just goes back to just being
so tiring and being like, I justwant to eat this chocolate bar.

(36:39):
And if it's safe, it's safe.
And if it's not, but it's justlike, what are the hidden words
that egg might be under or like.
Way, I need to look for way, ifit's not milk, and like, are,
are, are, may contain, is itreally contain it or not, like,
how am I supposed to know, andit's tiring.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (36:56):
Right.
Right.
And you can't turn that, thatkind of monitoring part off of
your brain.
You know, it's like you said,it's kind of always running.
I think of it like, likecomputer programs, how much of
my memory, how much of mystorage spaces is

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (37:08):
I love that.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (37:09):
any given

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (37:10):
Yeah, it's a lot of your ram, for
sure.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (37:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause I think, you know, it's,
it's hard to talk about

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (37:20):
Yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (37:20):
stuff, but I think it'll probably be
helpful for people listening.
Do you have anything to addabout what's helped you in
managing the OCD?

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (37:26):
I appreciate you saying that.
I think, well, one thing thathas been helpful has also been
like having loose structure tomy day.
Like, I think working out isvery important to me.
Um, I think my physical activityhas gone up and down over the
years, like for starting a newjob or going away to school and

(37:48):
never getting set, whether I'mfeeling settled or not after a
big life change.
Um, but I think like that.
That, um, really intenseworkouts is something that's
helpful.
I just laugh because like a fewof my friends at work, they're
like, Oh, do you drink coffee?
Like, there's always coffee allthe time at work.
And I was like, no, I actuallydon't.
They're like, that'sinteresting.
Cause you give me the energy ofsomeone who drinks a ton of

(38:09):
coffee and I think it's justlike, that's so good for me to
like work that out and have thathuge outlet.
Um, another really good outlethas been.
My music, I like my songwriting.
I think it's just been so, so,so helpful to have that creative
outlet.
I think a lot of us are creativeand, you know, I think I'm

(38:30):
working business and technologyright now.
Like there's only so muchcreativity you can do in a
commercial setting, but whenyou're just like being artistic
for yourself, it's such a goodfeeling.
And my mom always, my mom's atherapist as well.
She calls it like the feel goodactions and, you know, having

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (38:45):
Mm

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (38:45):
that,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (38:45):
hmm.

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (38:46):
you know, outlet is just so
important.
Um, so.
Far and away, ERP has been thebest thing for OCD, but I think
it's also benefited from, youknow, a good workout schedule
and, and also, I mean, I'm nota, I'm not the epitome of
fitness at all, but you know,that workouts has been really
Helpful and my, my, mysongwriting for sure and just
writing for myself and how I'mfeeling and for nobody else is

(39:08):
something that I really love.
Before we move on from yourmusic, will you tell people
where they can find it?
You can find me at, on Instagram,
the.
mas.
project.
It's the mass project.
You can also just search it onSpotify or like any streaming
platforms.
Um, yeah, scared fearless, Ithink is a, as a, is a good one
to listen to that's on themefor, for our talk today.

amanda_2_08-14-2024 (39:31):
Absolutely.
I, it hit me right away when Iwas checking out your music
because, like I said, I might beprojecting here, but this is
what my brain pulls up when I'm

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (39:39):
But yeah, thank you.
And I just, I just also like,um, I think if you listen, I try
to in my music at least, like,hide, hide very obvious things
about myself in like differentmetaphors, like being scared
fearless of just like, Oh, I'mgoing through like OCD therapy.
I just really like kind ofputting a little bit of a sugar

(40:01):
coat on it and putting it in ametaphor.
Because I think when you'relistening to music, I don't
think Anyone wants to hear yousing out that you have OCD or
something.
If that's what you want to do,for sure do it.
But like, that's not what Iwanted to sing.
But I, I wanted, it was, I sortof wanted everyone to know that
that was what's happening to mein like a fun way.
Um, maybe not fun, but like in ametaphorical way.

(40:23):
Because, I mean, I think if you,Not to be like that artist who
pontificates about his ownlyrics.
Cause that's so lame, but are sonot cool.
But the, um, uh, like the verseof like, I went and made a trade
cash for therapy.
And then you kind of connect thedots of like getting scared,
fearless, and then like thingsnot going well.
Like I tried to really be like,it's not going well over here at

(40:47):
that moment in my moment intime.
And it felt really good to shareit and publish it and get a, uh,
You know, a blog spot of like,Michael, the artist, tackles OCD
in his latest song to dowhatever to just be like, it's
okay.
And I, and I found that the moreI shared about OCD and it didn't
hide it, a few of my friendswere like, Oh, like Michael,

(41:09):
like, are you okay talking aboutthat?
Like, I think I might bestruggling with that.
Like, can you maybe share somestuff?
I'm like, that is such a goodfeeling to be like.
I shared and other people feltlike they could be like, Oh,
like I maybe need some help aswell, which was, it's just such
a good feeling.
I think not why I did it, but itwas nice.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (41:27):
Right.
But, and music is such a goodway to do that.
Not that it wouldn't have beenhelpful, but it would have had a
different effect if you had satdown with one of your friends
and said, Hey, I'm in

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (41:35):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_ (41:35):
struggling with this.
And they might've supported you,but they might have or responded
differently than to your

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (41:42):
Yeah.
Thank you.
I think so too.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (41:45):
Yeah.
Keep it up.
I mean, I think I canpontificate cause it's not my
music, but I told you I'm a hugemusic person.
And I always think of music,

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (41:53):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (41:55):
So, you know, you might, you write
that song and it's not the, Oh,what was me?
I'm dealing with this hardthing.
You rise above it and you mightnot stay there, but someone else
can listen to it and rise aboveas well out of that experience
for a moment into kind of thathigher place.
And maybe we come back down outof it, but it's, at least it's
available.
It's there to go to when youneed to shift the

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (42:13):
Yeah.
It's, it's a good, um, I likemusic.
It's like a good distractionsometimes for me.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (42:18):
It's good for so many things
Distractions mood changes.
It's good for the nervoussystem.
I'm a big

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (42:25):
It is.
I was Have you are, do you areknowledgeable about like music
therapy?
I was always Curious about how,like what music therapy is going
on in today's day and age.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (42:35):
I'm huge on this

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (42:37):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (42:37):
piece and that link between allergies
and anxiety and I offer a musiclistening program, not a

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (42:44):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (42:44):
where you come and we sing a song but
I have this program thataccesses the

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (42:49):
Is it ILS?

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (42:50):
that nerve that I was talking about
through the ears.
yes, it's called the Safe and

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (42:54):
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Well, my mom's an occupationaltherapist and she uses ILS for
all of her, her clients.
Is it Isla?
Is that what it's called?
Okay,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (43:03):
is the company.
they're the integrated listeningsystems and then the music, the
SSP safe and sound protocol isthe filtered music.
that's immune nervous systemregulating.

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (43:13):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna research that,
but that is very, veryinteresting.
I really appreciate that.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (43:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's so funny.
If I were your mom, I'd be like,you have to listen to this.
Listen again, like my, all mypoor kids have been listening,

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (43:25):
so funny.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (43:26):
You were talking about that

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (43:27):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (43:28):
when you, when you kind of assess
when

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (43:30):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1710 (43:31):
public and the way someone responds to
you.
Some of it's logical.
Some of it's

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (43:34):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (43:34):
know, and I was just going to say that
seems like another huge silverlining in terms of getting in
touch with that.
Just that, you know, instinctthat we all have to protect us
that I don't think a lot ofpeople learn to to tune in and
get in touch

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (43:47):
Yeah.
I mean, I had a family friendwho was like a, who was a
therapist for like, um, veryhigh performer, like athletes
and ballet dancers and usuallylike performers.
And he, It was always really bigon like, um, trusting your
instincts.
So I think I like, and I, and weknew him since a younger age.
So I think like I got a littlebit of that education from, from

(44:09):
him and just being like, it's,it's okay to trust your instinct
when you have trained it.
And it's, it knows, like there'sthings that, you know, your
brain knows before.
You're even recognize them.
And, um, I think that'ssomething with my food allergies
is like, I don't even have tolike say anything after
somebody, a server will come byor a manager will, well, um, you

(44:33):
know, do that their allergiesspiel or lack thereof for me to
know, like, okay, it's safe.
And, you know, there's justsomething that.
Comes by with like, there's thejust the right level of
confidence there, but stillcaution.
There's just the right level oflike seriousness, but not worry.
They've shared just enoughinformation about their food

(44:53):
allergy protocols, but theyhaven't like gone so in depth
that it makes you visualize andwonder if it's safe enough.
And they, they sort of recognizehow much information they should
be sharing because theyrecognize that allergy brains
are doing this.
And they, you know, and, and.
It's, um, there's just somethingthat immediately you're like,
oh, I can, this, I can be here.

(45:15):
Or like, nope, wrong place toeat.
We're not going here.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (45:19):
Well, and I think it's, it's amazing
that you had that someone,anyone in your

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (45:24):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (45:25):
to you about that when you were
younger growing up.
Cause I don't think a lot of

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (45:27):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (45:28):
that.
Um, but what I find with many ofthe people that I work with is
that they confuse their anxietyfor their

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (45:34):
Uh,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (45:35):
they can't differentiate

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (45:36):
that's so interesting you said that,
cause I think that's whathappened to me when I was at
university and like, I thought Iwas having anaphylaxis, but it
was, it It was so late at nightand I was so tired and I was
just like, is this anaphylaxis?
And then you're like, you startto get a bit sweaty and then the
sweat touches your clothes andthen your clothes get itchy.
I'm like, is this hives?
Or is this like, was this justnormal anxiety?
And then maybe some peoplesuffer with panic and panic and

(45:59):
be like, Oh, is that like ananaphylactic?
Like, you know, the big threesymptoms is that might be an
airway issue.
Like these are, these are verycomplicated things to deal with
in the moment.
Okay.
And that confusion is sort oflike, I really empathize with
that because I've definitelyfelt that with my own allergies,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (46:17):
And going back to the body, that
it's exactly what you described.
I mean, the anxiety can causeall the real same physical
symptoms that an anxiety, thatan allergic reaction produces
because it's the same system inthe body triggering it.
So it's really hard.
And I hope, you know, you're notthe only one who has had that
experience and it's, it doesn'thurt to call right.
And have someone talk youthrough it.

(46:38):
Who's not in panic

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (46:39):
right?

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (46:40):
are, but that happens

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (46:41):
I didn't know it happens often to
other people and I it'ssomething that i've definitely
Had to like I don't know if it'slike a skill to hone or just
like something to be aware of tobe like When I sort of sense
that anxiety like that sort oflike uh oh moment.
I'm just like, okay like Let'sjust hold up for a sec and just
like walk through the process inmy head of like same risk

(47:02):
analysis process.
I sound like a crazy riskanalysis person, but I think
like that, that is somethingthat's important to me.
And like, I think, I think I'vegotten really, I think it's,
I've gotten very good at.
Uh, risk assessment for foodallergies, and I think everybody
with allergies has, has thatsort of spidey sense, you know,
of like, Oh, I don't think Ishould do this.

(47:24):
And even if you can't quite putyour finger on it.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (47:26):
Yes, and trusting that is, I think,
so important, instead ofquestioning ourselves or being
down on ourselves.
It takes practice.

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (47:33):
Mm hmm.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (47:34):
it, but it's

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (47:35):
Yeah, absolutely.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (47:36):
are there other things that we
didn't get to that you wanted totalk about

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (47:40):
I think we could talk for a very
long time.
I really enjoy chatting withyou.
I think, you know, I really justfeel for everybody with
allergies out there.
I think it's really great thatyou're doing this podcast and
spreading food allergyawareness.
And I think that's reallyfantastic.
I meant to ask you, don't feedthe fear.
I was curious about like thetheme and more about learning

(48:00):
about the podcast and thatvision.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (48:03):
Yeah.
Thanks for asking.
I think that's kind of a line,one of the line, I've, you know,
a few lines that I say a lotwith the clients that I work
with and with my son, with hisallergies.
And we talk about, we kind of,um, externalize the fear and
with kids I'll have them, youknow, visualize it.
What does it sound like when itstarts talking to you inside of
your head as and with kids, I'llhave them picture it like, as
this monster that's, that's.

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (48:24):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_17100 (48:25):
time.
So we're not going to feed it.
We're not going to nurture it.
We're not going to help it growstronger.
We're, we're going to feedourselves.
We're going to grow our own, youknow, strength and health and
wellness.
We're not going to put ourenergy and our resources into
things that we know just don'twork.

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (48:41):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_1 (48:42):
stronger, so I would always say don't feed

michael_1_08-14-2024_17100 (48:44):
love that.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (48:45):
Um, so that's kind of just the
little line that, that stuckwhen I was trying to think of

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (48:50):
I really like that.
And I think that applies to allanxieties and not just food
allergy stress.
I think I have, I have becomevery familiar with anxiety and
anxiety management because offood allergies and my OCD and,
and all these things.
And I think that definitelyapplies to that.

(49:11):
One other thing I wanted tomention was that, I mentioned
that I'm in the Foodology likePals program at Foodology
Canada.
But my, I always like to tell mymom, like my first foodology pal
was my mom and my dad before Ispoke to everyone else.
And I think it's really greatwhat you're doing for your son
and for all of your otherclients.
And I really respect that.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (49:30):
Oh, thank you.
That means a lot to hear, and Ihope, I hope it's helpful.
It is kind of a selfish thing.
Like, I want my son to be ableto hear

michael_1_08-14-2024_171 (49:37):
Right.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (49:38):
like you, you know, who, who has a
different perspective anddifferent experiences.
So, you know.
Everyone else can benefit fromit as well.
And, you know, you probablywouldn't have talked to me if I,
maybe you would, you seem reallynice, but if I was like, Hey, I
need someone to talk to my son.
Um, but so, you know, it's, Ithink of him and I think of, I
just want to scoop up all theother kids out there who

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (49:56):
Yeah.

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (49:56):
this and adults who are struggling
and do something to help becausealong the way of, you know.
Picked up some things and talkedto a lot of people who have
stuff to share.
So it's, it's good to have aplatform and thank you for being
so generous.
I love how everyone I reach outto is like,

michael_1_08-14-2024_1710 (50:11):
Yeah,

amanda_2_08-14-2024_171006 (50:12):
It's amazing.
Cause everybody wants

michael_1_08-14-2024_171006 (50:14):
I think so.
And it is really wonderful whatyou're doing.
And I, and I think I'm reallyhappy to hear that people are
saying like yes to helping outand being on the podcast.
But I think it's just somethingthat cuts so deep of just like
people have had their own foodallergy stresses and worries and
it's just like if I can Do onelittle thing to help someone
else.
That's probably a good thing Andit makes them feel better.

(50:36):
It makes me feel better sharingwith you today as well I think I
definitely get a lot of out ofthe conversation too.
So, thank you.
Thanks again so much, Michael,for sharing so openly with us.
I think that's a really helpfulconversation for a lot of young
people and their parents tohear.
And as always, here are threeaction steps you can take away
from today's conversation.

(50:57):
Number one, check out his music.
You can find him on Instagram atthe.
mass.
project.
Mass is spelled M A S.
There's also a link in the shownotes to find his music and give
it a listen.
Number two, if you're strugglingwith symptoms of OCD, you can
find a link in the show notes tolearn more about exposure and
response prevention, or ERP, asMichael mentioned.

(51:19):
And if you think you need moresupport around this, there's a
search option on that websitefor the International OCD
Foundation to find a providernear you.
And number three, if you'recurious about the treatment that
I mentioned that I use with myclients to stimulate the vagus
nerve for improved nervoussystem regulation, you can check
out my website via the link inthe show notes or at

(51:40):
thefoodallergypsychologist.
com under biofeedback in themenu and then the safe and sound
protocol.
And before I wrap up thisepisode, I just want to thank
everybody who found me this yearand has been listening and
following along.
It's been quite an adventure anda learning curve for me, but it
means so much to see how many ofyou are out there listening and

(52:00):
I hope getting some goodinformation and some support
from the podcast.
I'm going to take a little bitof a longer break here over the
holidays and into January beforeI start the winter season of
Don't Feed the Fear.
And in the meantime, I wouldlove to hear from you.
So I haven't decided yet whatthe theme will be for our winter
season of the podcast.
If you have suggestions orinputs or requests, You can

(52:23):
contact me through the connectoption on my website,
thefoodallergypsychologist.
com.
There's a link in the notes.
And you can also find me onFacebook and Instagram at Amanda
Whitehouse, the food allergypsychologist.
Thank you so much, and I hopeeveryone has a wonderful, safe,
and joyful holiday season withyour families.

(52:44):
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.