This season’s book club episode kicks off National Poetry Month with memoirist and poet Sandra Beasley. She expertly weaves her wit and wisdom on her own experiences into her writing and discussion about life with food allergies. In this episode, we talk about:
✨ Allergies as a punchline or lazy plot device & the impact of these portrayals on real people
✨ Topics we need to discuss more including alcohol and allergies and availability of stock epinephrine on airplanes and in other public places
✨Shifting from being cared for to becoming a caregiver as her spouse navigates health concerns
And the best part? She reads her poem Death by Chocolate for us—turning what’s often misunderstood into something deeply felt and fiercely funny.
3 Action Steps:
1. Follow Sandra @sandrabeasley
2. Read her work: Buy Sandra’s books: Bookshop.org US
Recent essay: https://theamericanscholar.org/to-catch-a-sunset-2/
3. Try narrative therapy! Write a letter to your younger self about your experiences, or write a letter to yourself now imagining what your older self would say in the future.
Sandra Beasley photo credit: Andrew Lightman
Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com
Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
-welcome@dramandawhitehouse.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sandra Beasley (00:00):
I just want to say over and over again to
people who are either in mysituation or parents to people
in my situation who feel.
Fearful for your child.
I, I don't regret anything abouthow I navigate the world.
these things, although they arehardships, they are hardships
that make us more.
Complicated and rigorous andinteresting people.
(00:22):
I do think you just have toembrace, this is the life, you
know, you occupy the life asfully as you can.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (00:29):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear
podcast, where we dive into thecomplex world of food allergy
anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:50):
I am so excited to get to meetand have on the show my guest
today, Sandra Beasley, she's theauthor of Don't Kill the
Birthday Girl (00:57):
Tales From An Allergic Life, a disability
memoir about her own foodallergies.
Her nonfiction has appeared inthe New York Times, Washington
Post Wall Street Journal,psychology Today, the American
Scholar, Virginia QuarterlyReview, lit Hub, and a harp and
the stars and anthology of lyricessays.
She has also published fourpoetry collections, including
(01:18):
Made to Explode, and she editedvinegar and char verse from the
Southern Foodways Alliance.
Sandra's honors include an NEAFellowship.
The Munster Literature CentersJohn Montague Fellowship and six
DC Commission on the Arts andHumanities Fellowships.
She lives in Washington, DC.
Sandra, thank you for joining metoday to talk about your writing
(01:41):
and your work and about yourlife managing allergies.
I'm really happy to have youhere.
Sandra Beasley (01:45):
I'm thrilled to be here.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (01:47):
Your book Don't Kill The Birthday Girl,
was published in 2011 and my sonwas diagnosed in 2012.
So it was perfect timing for mein terms of finding your book
when I needed it the most.
And that's what this season orthe podcast is all about.
Where, where do we find support?
It's not always people that weknow in real life.
you mentioned in your bookTaking Refuge in books, and I do
(02:08):
too.
And so I'm excited to have thechance to thank you personally
for sharing what you did itreally ties in your personal
experiences with.
The topics that are, importantto know about and understand,
you merged life, experience withhistory and, political issues
and all those things really wellin the book.
Sandra Beasley (02:26):
I really appreciate that.
And one thing that I wouldmention is that I, I very
consciously wrote the book intoa gap that I saw, because years
ago I.
had the opportunity to speakwith a, a literary agent, and I
went in there thinking I wouldlike to try my hand at writing
nonfiction.
I'd only really publishedpoetry, up till that point, and
(02:48):
I was talking about varioustopics for a book.
And frankly, he wasn't, thatinterested in X, Y, or Z.
But when I mentioned the foodallergies, he, he paused and he
said, you know, that's, theremight be something there.
And when I went home from thatmeeting, I realized there
really.
Was a gap where there was a tonof very high science, fairly
(03:09):
dense writing about foodallergy.
Uh, and then very, verypractical.
You know, here's the, here's therecipes, here's the tips,
self-help.
But there wasn't anything thatfelt like a compelling organic
narrative of what the actualexperience was like.
And I thought, well, you know,I, I would wanna read that and,
and.
(03:29):
So I guess I have to write it.
that really opened something upfor me.
And I will just say that theconversations I've had as a
result of this book have beenincredible because all it takes
is you offering up your ownexperience to just let people
feel like they can finally offerup there, as in return.
Dr. Amanda Whitehou (03:46):
Absolutely.
I agree with you.
I think we still see that gapand maybe, more people will
continue to fill that in.
I think I'm trying to do thatwith the podcast here and hoping
to do that with you today.
Diving in a little bit deeper inconversation beyond kind of the
surface level of experiences.
I was hoping we could start justwith.
The title, I won't say I loveyour title.
but it's really powerful indepicting, one of the themes
(04:07):
that I think is of your book,how you're shaped by this
experience.
So would you mind telling usabout how you came up with that?
Sandra Beasley (04:13):
Sure.
I mean, I had in poetry writtena sequence called Allergy Girl,
and I came to working on aproposal for, for a memoir,
thinking that was going to be avariation of the title.
And then as it got closer, Irealized that wasn't quite.
Doing enough to capture the, thevalues that I wanted.
(04:36):
I wanted to show that this wasgoing to, weirdly enough, be a
book with a sense of humor.
And so I tried to pull somethingfrom the memory bank of my
childhood with food allergy thathad a little bit of an element
of the absurd, and I could justremember my mother's cheerful
voice at, at birthday parties orat family celebrations where,
(04:56):
you know, everyone wouldcritique in a dessert and then
she'd be like.
Don't kill the birthday girl.
You know, like, just kind ofhands off from Sandra.
'cause we had, had, we'd had theexperience of like, really great
evening and then at the end ofthe night, well-meaning, uh,
relative just giving me a bigfat kiss on the cheek where just
I would immediately get a hive,you know?
(05:17):
And so it was, um, it, it, itfelt like it had that right, uh,
storytelling element that Ireally wanted to share with
folks.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (05:26):
And it seems like you must have had to
do a fair amount of researchtoo, because you really do tie
in a lot of factual, informationabout allergies along with your
experiences.
What was that like living it andthen having to dive into
learning about a different.
Inside of it.
Sandra Beasley (05:39):
Yeah.
When I originally committed towriting the book, I really
thought of it as a culturalhistory of food allergy with a
little bit of memoir, and itbecame clear in the conversation
with the publisher that whatthey wanted was a memoir with a.
A bit of research and culturalhistory and, and in some ways,
there were, there were.
Kind of hardships of trying todo the research that I just
(06:01):
didn't know enough to know thatI was going to run into, like,
the fact that literally the wordallergy wasn't coined until the
20th century.
So you can't just do a neat wordsearch, and, and find, I mean,
you, you can find the medicalcase histories that are relevant
to food allergy once you knowwhat to look for, but it's not
as simple as a keyword search.
(06:21):
and so I, I actually, um.
Years ago, studied science,fairly seriously when I was a
younger student and chose to goin the direction of creative
writing and, and of English.
And it was fun for me to go backinto having that vocabulary,
having to develop that abilityto, to synthesize, fairly dense
(06:42):
studies and, and get the, getthe top line results, get a
layman's understanding andreally think a lot about
creating metaphors.
That, that could kind oftransform and create
understanding for anyone and notleave them feeling boxed out by
the science or, or the degree ofhistory, which in a way is what
my allergist all those yearsago, had to do for me when I was
(07:03):
like, five, six years old tryingto explain to a kid why their
blood is quote unquote rejectingor attacking certain things as,
as they eat them.
So I was really felt a, akinship with.
All the pediatric allergists inthe world who are also trying to
get pretty complex scientificinformation and make it a
palatable for, for the peoplewho need it.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (07:25):
That makes me curious, how did you
make that jump then with thisinterest in science that you had
to becoming a writer?
Sandra Beasley (07:33):
When I moved forward in the world, I realized
was that I could.
writing and always invite in thetexture of science and nature
and things I could research.
in order to be a writer, youhave to really commit to, to
nourishing that communityelement too.
(07:53):
Going to readings constantlykind of networking and moving
through the world as a writer,and I think it would've been
hard for me to maintain thepoetry side of myself if I had.
Fully pursued a profession inthe sciences honestly.
So you, you kind of pick whichone is going to be the, the, the
primary and which one is goingto be the, the secondary.
(08:14):
And, and I just ultimately felttoo called to, to books and
literature.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (08:19):
I'm just kind of shifting my perspective
because I obviously read, don'tKill the Birthday Girl first and
then found your poetry.
but it sounds like you're sayingyou are, you're a writer that's
just such a big part of you thatyou needed to do that and did,
did your life with allergies,shape that?
Sandra Beasley (08:34):
I do think that my food allergy is central to
who I am.
It's, I, I don't think of it asa compartmentalized thing or
something that, I would takeaway if I could.
At this point, it's completely,embedded in, in how I approach
the world, which is it in a veryobservant way, a very.
Discerning way, I hope a veryempathetic way.
(08:54):
And those are all qualities thatI think are essentially enriched
by my experience with foodallergy.
I did take a long time to bringfood allergy onto the page.
It, it took me a really longtime to think that that was
something that was worthy ofappearing in a poem or appearing
in an essay.
there's a lot of differentreasons for that.
writing nonfiction is alwayshard, but, but I also think that
(09:17):
there was a certain, um.
know, if you think about foodallergy through a disability
lens, I think early on some ofmy workshop experiences, uh,
kind of, there might've beensome, what we would call ableist
or some, some determination onfocus on the upside, focus on
the strengths about you.
Why would you wanna talk about aweakness, you know?
(09:37):
so it, it took me a while toclaim it.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (09:40):
looking back on it now, it's been about
14 years since you've originallypublished the book, the allergy
world information is changing sorapidly.
What do you feel holds true andwhat do you feel looks different
to you now looking back?
Sandra Beasley (09:53):
So, as I mentioned, the, the book came in
part out of a conversation witha, a literary agent, which was
through a contest that I had wonfor my poetry.
So really kind of an odd, so Ihave to be honest, this was not
a book I had spent.
I.
A number of years planningtowards this was a book where
all of a sudden, in a matter of,of less than six months, I had a
(10:14):
book contract with a year'sdeadline.
So I, I, you know, I had to kindof very quickly calibrate how I
was going to approach writingthe book that said.
I was extraordinarily lucky inthat, that period of 2008, 2009,
I feel like we had a crest ofunderstanding of, of the
(10:35):
science, of food allergy.
The LEAP study was, was alreadyin play.
we didn't have results from it,but there was a, I think a, a
very sophisticated.
way of talking about foodallergy that was beginning to
burgeon, uh, at that time.
So I was fortunate in that whenI went looking for studies, the
studies were there.
Now, of course, I wish I couldhave had access to the studies
(10:57):
that came out in 2013 and, and,2017 and leap and leap on and
all the things that we know nowthat we didn't know back then.
And, and that I think is the,the forever.
Frustration of choosing to writeabout the sciences or the
medicalized body.
You have to accept the realitythat, you, you do the best with
(11:17):
what you can and the informationyou have at the time, it will
continue to change outunderneath you.
And that's why where I had donea lifetime's worth of research
was the personal stories, andthat's, no one could take those
away from me.
and, and I always try to say topeople, it is a.
It's a memoir, it's not amanual.
I know that there are timeswhere as an individual in this
(11:38):
book, I handle allergicreactions in ways that is
probably a parent's worstnightmare to read.
But that doesn't mean it doesn'thappen.
And, and that to me was theultimate responsibility I had,
was to be as honest as possibleso that if that opened up a
conversation between a parent.
And not even a child, but ateenager or a young adult,
(11:59):
maybe, maybe those wereconversations that needed to be
had, and if someone didn'tcreate the umbrella of being
open, how could you create ashelter for those, those
conversations.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (12:10):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think in rereading it now,obviously it struck me so
differently than it did thenbecause at the time I had a, a
baby, with allergies and I couldcontrol absolutely everything
and, and.
Thought that, oh, well my childwould never, you know, I would
make sure my child knows not todo some of these things that now
I'm reading them and I have a13-year-old, or are you're
right, anxiety provoking toread.
(12:30):
But that's what I think we areboth mentioning as far as diving
deeper beyond the surface leveldiscussions because, um, it does
happen.
Kids do feel these things asmuch as we try to educate them
or what they have access to.
and so I think it's reallypowerful for you to have shared
that.
Despite, like you said it someof it is, it's tough to read the
way that you handled certainthings that you probably would
(12:50):
not hope do today in your adultlife.
I mean, I, I was trying toremember, you know, I was
thinking about the stories of mylife that have happened after
the book of written was cameout, or even the stories that.
I, for whatever reason, I didn'tinclude in the book, and I was
thinking about one thing that,which is years, I mean, years
ago, like when I was a kid, Iremember, being, playing with my
(13:14):
cat and like flicking kibbleacross the floors, if a cat
would, would chase it andwithout a second thought, I
popped a piece of a kibble intomy mouth in the way that like a
six or 7-year-old might do.
Sure.
Sandra Beasley (13:32):
A split second later thought, my God, this is a
food, this is a, this is a food.
And thankfully I didn't have areaction in that moment, or at
least not one that I can recall,but realizing later that yes,
shrimp was one of theingredients.
Now, at that point, if you'retalking about a single bit of
kibble, it's such an infinitedecimal, you know?
But, but we know, we know thateven the smallest amount can
(13:53):
cause a reaction.
Right?
And so, you know, gosh.
Are, are people thinking to talkto very young kids about making
sure they know whether the petfood in the house has their food
allergens in it?
Kids are kids.
You never know where they'regonna Right.
Well, and how telling that youas a somewhere around 6-year-old
would even stop to think thatbecause obviously no other child
(14:14):
who hasn't had this lifeexperience would, that would
never cross their mind.
Like, is it okay for me to eatthis?
how many kids bite?
Bite into a dog biscuit at somepoint, you know, practically
rite of passage.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (14:25):
I most if, yeah, absolutely.
Well, and I should have probablyasked earlier on, but maybe this
is a good point for me to pauseand have you, tell people who
are listening, what yourallergies are.
Sandra Beasley (14:35):
Yeah.
you.
Yes.
Um, dairy, which I am, I usuallyam saying cow's milk, but the
reality is I've had reactions togoat's milk and sheep's milk as
well.
Um, and just recently the FDAhas kind of played around with
its definitions of.
Of dairy to more caly includethose, those considerations.
Uh, chicken, egg, um, beefshrimp, macadamia pistachios,
(15:03):
cashews, uh, pine nuts, whichthe first couple of times I ate
them, I could eat them.
And then I, I started havingconsistently and, and more and
more severe reactions, mango,uh, cantaloupe and, That's
always a pain because if you goto a hotel and there's a
inexpensive free breakfast, thefruit salad always honeydew and
(15:25):
cantaloupe in it, which I amallergic to both of those.
cucumber.
Mustard in the sense of Dijonmustard.
I've never quite figured out ifit's the issue as a egg and as
an emulsifier, the thing is, isthat when you have allergies
like mine and when you have ahistory of as many severe
reactions as I do, and yes, I'vegotten a, a couple of levels of
(15:48):
testing over the years, but youknow, you hit a moment where.
Am I allergic to lobster?
I don't know.
I know I'm allergic to shrimp.
And the idea of me beingmotivated to do an oral food
challenge with lobster, which isa very expensive in the first
place, is very low.
And so, you know, there, there,there's a category of foods that
(16:10):
it's, it's very possible that Ihave allergies too.
But honestly, um, at this pointin my adult life, I might just
never know.
and information is powerful andI know the importance of, of
having that information.
And what I don't, necessarilywant is the flip side of, uh, a
child or a family.
(16:30):
avoiding a food that if it, itturns out if an oral food
challenge had been done, infact, if a child could have
eaten, you know, I think, um,this is just anecdotal, but I, I
think my mom was telling me,reminding me the other day that
I'm pretty sure that based onthe initial, uh.
What would've been like RAstesting or blood testing back
then?
(16:50):
You know, it was claiming I wasallergic to pineapple and that
that's not something that evermanifested in allergy.
And in fact, it was wrong overand over again before.
But if we had just.
Gone forward with that oneresult, that could have been a
whole lifetime of missing out mytrips to Hawaii would've not
been nearly as fun, you know?
And so, so it is, I think, Ithink that even with all of the
(17:12):
improvements in science, we'restill between a rock and a hard
place.
Um, and, and all I can say isthat I'm glad that there's, I
think there's a lot of activeattention to, to figuring out
better options for, fordiagnostics.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (17:24):
I agree.
And in an informed way with theperspectives, like what you've
shared in mind, not without anyconsideration.
I.
Sandra Beasley (17:30):
Yeah, it's, it's, you know, I think that we
have to be honest about theemotional and logistical time
commitments and, and, you know,money commitments that involve
families caring for a child'sfood allergy with, whether it's
the diagnostic visits or,treatments twice a month or it's
just, it's a tremendous.
(17:51):
It, I don't wanna say burdenbecause I think you just, you,
you, you just embrace that it'spart of living the life you
have, but, but the, the costsare real and they're there.
And, even, even just the, thehappenstance stuff adds up.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (18:08):
Yeah, the little things add up, um, which.
Makes me wanna ask you what,what's the biggest single thing,
looking back on your life, whatwas the biggest moment that
really, was traumatizing orstuck with you?
Sandra Beasley (18:21):
There was no one.
reaction that comes to mind.
even though I've, I've over theyears had reactions that were
painful or embarrassing ormysterious in ways that were
frustrating or expensive.
but I never really of those astraumatizing.
(18:44):
I do sometimes think with regretof.
The handful of things that Isaid no to, where I think really
deep down it was anxiety relatedto food allergy.
I was just thinking the otherday about I got a sudden invite
to go to an international poetryconference.
I had just done a poetry readingin, Cyprus and, and I.
(19:06):
I soon after got an invitationto go to and do a poetry
festival in Turkey.
And in hindsight, it was anamazing opportunity, but I
wouldn't have had the sameinfrastructure of protections
around me, just because of theway it was organized.
I just would've had lessguarantees of a host or English
speaker, and I justfundamentally.
I just couldn't handle thestress of it honestly.
(19:29):
Uh, and, and those are thethings that, not trauma, but it,
it is a degree of regret, andthat's where I have to remind
myself that there really aresome life experiences that I've
kind of missed out on or had ina more compromised manner
because of my food allergy.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (19:44):
Is loss maybe a better word for it?
Sandra Beasley (19:47):
Yeah, and I think, I, I ended up choosing
not to have children, which isa, a question that's left open
at the end of Don't kill theBirthday girl.
And I still to this day, amoften in conversations where
we'll be talking about, foodallergy best practices or
options.
And when you bring up the, thepotential reality of being the
(20:08):
parent with severe food allergy.
To a child who you're trying tohelp not have that food allergy,
and you try to talk about earlyintroduction, for example, to
something that you yourself,may, may be allergic to.
A lot of times the answers arereally not good.
The, I mean, not I, I mean notgood, as in they're not, they're
not established.
There's not really the languagearound it that you might wish
(20:31):
that there was.
And I think that's somethingthat we as a, a culture can work
on.
But also, um, I, again, Iconsider my food allergy.
to who I am, but I don't thinkI'll ever quite know what it
would've been like to weigh thedecision of, of whether or not
to have kids if I hadn't hadthe, these allergies.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (20:52):
Right.
You can't remove that from.
The whole of who you are.
Sandra Beasley (20:55):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (20:56):
Well, and you, you mentioned just now and
touched earlier too on how theprocess of writing the, the
memoir and putting, theallergies on the page for the
first time with the poetry.
in, in my field and mentalhealth, we talk a lot about how
narrative therapy can be helpfuland about how, putting your
experiences together into acoherent story helps shape your
sense of who you are and processand integrate them.
did there come a time when yourealized that's what you were
(21:18):
about to do, or is it, was it inretrospect can you talk about
the experience of doing thatthrough your writing?
Sandra Beasley (21:24):
I my graduate studies in creative writing at
American University, and there'sa, a teacher and writer.
He is passed away now.
Out, but his name was RichardMcCann and Richard was the
recipient of a liver transplantand had written about that and I
kind of had this notion.
Towards the very, very, veryend, my thesis semester in the
(21:47):
graduate program, like maybe Ishould try writing about my
allergies.
And he was my advisor on mythesis, and I'm so grateful in
hindsight because he was a greatsounding board for what I was
struggling with, which wastrying to figure out how to use
a.
Slightly technical vocabularyof, something like
immunoglobulin or something likethat.
But, I, I liked the stickinessof words like that, but I also
(22:09):
recognized that it was a fragilebalance to use a word like that
in a poem and how to, how to dothat mix of movements.
And it was something that he hadhad to think about in his essays
about the transplant experienceand, and in general his health.
so that kind of lured me in.
I and, and that is something Ithink about a lot.
As a teacher, I'm not, currentlyI'm not doing teaching as my
(22:31):
primary income, but there havebeen years in my life where it
has been.
And I often think about justholding open the door for
someone else who wants to writeabout the medicalized body, but
just needs to be in dialoguewith someone who knows, who
knows what it's like.
that's, it makes a hugedifference.
the only thing I'll say in termsof writing about it in poetry
versus.
Prose is that poetry is often aspace where you, you do open up
(22:54):
to melancholy.
You know, when, back when I wasin my dating days, if someone
said, well, why don't I evershow up in your poems?
I'm like, if you are showing upin our poems, this is probably
not a good sign for ourrelationship.
This really, and similarly.
I think what's interesting is inthe couple of small cameos that
that parents, I'm not gonna saymy parents,'cause poems don't
(23:17):
necessarily have thatstipulative truth, value, but
parents in the food allergypoems, it's, it's often in a
place of kind of, fraughtmelancholy or, or stress.
and yet in Don't kill theBirthday Girl.
And I'm glad I got to do this.
I got to show my parents,'causethat's a memoir, in, in a really
(23:37):
appreciative light because thereality is whatever stresses my
family was encountering over theyears, it almost always brought
out the best in them when I was,when I was dealing with my
allergies.
I really, and I reallyappreciate that.
I know that's not necessarilythe case for every family, but
in many cases it was.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (23:54):
Yeah.
Which is, it's such a complexthing to explore.
you shared an essay with me andif it's okay, I'll.
Link it and the essay, I'll letyou summarize it because it's
too complex for me to even, toeven do, but it, it.
Going from the summary that youjust said about, always being
able to see that their bestlight, their best self shined
through when you needed them,but yet to explore the
(24:15):
complexities the way you did inthe essay that you shared with
me.
Parents, I.
Who are listening to process andreally be mindful and conscious
about how they're filling theirrole as an allergy parent, not
just managing the day to day.
that at least that's what itbrought up themes of for me.
And I will warn people if youwanna read, read when you have
time to really process, becauseit's not a fluff piece.
(24:36):
it's complicated and I applaudyou for tackling it.
Can you talk about that for us?
Sandra Beasley (24:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, so, so what I just saidis true, which is that I think
my mother, in her capacity tolearn to self-educate about food
allergy, I mean, again, this wasthe eighties.
There was so much lessinformation than there is now.
So to self-educate, to be on thelookout for me to, to get at the
technical levels of.
Food and treatment and reactionsto be brave when I was reacting
(25:04):
and needed someone to, to feellike they were in charge and
that I was protected.
All of that is, is great, butthat anxiety and stress doesn't,
you know, that doesn'tdisappear.
It, it gets, you know, it gets.
Ends up being saved up and, andperhaps expressing itself in
other times, in other settingswhere in that moment, you're,
you're not necessarily in thesuperhero, adrenaline mode of
(25:25):
protecting your child, butyou're just, just a flawed human
making your way through theworld.
And, you know, and bless mymother for.
reading that essay and, andletting me publish it.
'cause it does capture, um, someof the inevitable pressure
valves that have to be releasedwhen you're a food allergy
parent.
I think.
Um, yeah.
(25:45):
So that's, you know, it, it'sabout, it's about mothers and
daughters.
It's about food allergy anxiety.
It goes back to generation andtalks about my, my grandmother
and her mother as figures aswell.
Although their, their food,their story doesn't have food
allergy in it and it's just,it's just really thinking about
caregiving and the thing thatI'll, disclose just'cause it's
(26:06):
in the work that I'm doing now.
Is it literally the day after Ifinished writing that essay, I
wrote that essay in Alaska andthe day after I finished it, I
got the call that my husband wasback at home in DC in the
hospital.
and he was in fact.
within 24 hours on, on ecmo.
So he was extremely ill, andended up being in the ICU for,
(26:29):
for three weeks.
And my point is, is that I endedup having to go through this
searing, discussion ofcaregiving on the page, and then
I went home and all of a suddenwas.
The caregiver.
And in fact, actually my motherslept on my couch for a week to
help me just get my lifetogether because he, my husband,
experienced multiple organfailure.
(26:49):
And, and part of what I'mwriting about now is trying to
reconcile the reality that cameto him, which was living with a
renal diet and a cardiac diet,and.
I thought I was gonna spend mylife with me as the one with
the, the dietary challenges.
And of course mine haven't goneaway, but now we're a household
(27:11):
of, of two sets of dietaryrestrictions and a need to
create mutual caregiving.
And so thinking a lot about that
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (27:20):
Yeah.
Sandra Beasley (27:20):
the anxiety, don't forget the anxiety.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (27:22):
Well, yes.
So much anxiety to go around.
It's such a powerful picture forme as a mom.
Thinking of, you writing thatpiece about your mom and how
that anxiety manifested for her,and then to come home to her
sleeping on your couch.
I.
To support you through now youhaving a mirrored experience as
you said, being the caregiver.
For me that was one of thestrongest connecting factors for
(27:43):
me with my own mom.
Um, different thing, but mysister had juvenile diabetes,
so, in a way that many peoplecouldn't understand.
She was able to relate to thisidea of caregiving in a way
that, other people might not beable to keep your child safe.
And, and that, I've processedthat a lot and your essay helped
me with that as well in terms ofthe impact it has on our
relationships.
Sandra Beasley (28:02):
Yeah.
and I'm glad, it's interestingthat you mentioned, um, juvenile
diabetes.
One of the things that if I.
Could go back in time and youknow, not rewrite the book, but
if I could, if I could justcounsel myself as I was writing
the book.
felt at the time a great deal ofpressure to differentiate and
make food allergies stand out.
(28:24):
And, and I think that wassomething my publisher wanted me
to do.
And the only thing that, um,especially as I eventually came
to think about food allergy morethrough the disability lens, I,
I wish that, you know, therewere times in the book where I
was trying to reallydifferentiate, for example,
wheat allergy from celiac, from,you know, gluten intolerance or,
or, um, thinking about.
(28:45):
Uh, I wish I had been able tospend a little bit more time
celebrating the similarstruggles and the, the potential
for, for combined empowermentversus some of the places where
I feel like I ended up, youknow, just pointing out, here's
how we're special, here's howwe're different, you know, and,
and again, that's just, uh,maybe a maturity thing, but it
was, it was really brought homeby the fact that after the book
(29:06):
came out, I had so many powerfulconversations with people.
One of whom, who comes to mind,who's.
Coming from the diabetes world.
and I just thought, oh man, likeI, I.
I would hate for them to readthis book and feel excluded from
it.
I even felt that way a littlebit with folks with peanut
allergy.
'cause I, I, I talk a lot aboutthe ways in which by the larger
public peanut allergy got liftedup and made the figurehead
(29:30):
allergy.
I mean, to this day, the myththat peanut allergies are more
serious than any other allergypersists, but that is not the
fault of people with peanutallergy.
Right.
I would hate for someone withpeanut allergy to enter my book
and to any way feel left outbecause it's not something that
I personally had experienced andcouldn't speak to with the same
passion.
(29:50):
But I get, I get the concern andI get the anxiety of irony was
when they designed the paperbackfor my book, they put a picture
of a peanut on the back.
Maybe someone who hadn'tactually read the book, but.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (30:05):
I was gonna say, did they read the
book?
And the way you're describingthis, uh, just from a personal
experience, it didn't comeacross that way to me, at least
as a parent with a child, withpeanut tree nut.
And then we added sesame later.
But initially it, it seemedpretty simple.
It was just nuts.
Um, when you were talking aboutflying and your experience
flying and should we eliminate,peanuts from planes, but.
(30:27):
Should we eliminate all ofeveryone's allergens for planes?
And it's just complicated.
And I would say your book helpedme to realize that when I was in
this fear state of like, get thepeanuts out of everywhere, not
actually being realistic ornecessarily fair.
Sandra Beasley (30:40):
Yeah.
I think that that is a, a very.
issue.
I mean, I certainly have had theanxiety of sitting down on a
plane and having someoneunwrapping a spectacularly
cheesy sandwich that they boughtat the airport right next to me.
And I just have to stay centeredin that moment and know that I
have things that I am empoweredto do to keep myself feeling
(31:01):
comfortable and safe.
And, you know, and look, I.
You can't rely on personalantidote, but I, I never have
had a, a reaction from that typeof adjacency.
I'm not, not gonna say exposure,but adjacency and all I can say
is I hope the same for, um, forany family with, with tree nut
allergy or peanut allergy.
But I also know it's harder withreal little kids.
(31:23):
'cause real little kids will.
Reach out and grab something andbe oblivious to, you know, to
whether or not they're, whatthey're putting in their mouth
so that when you are in a, aspace like, uh, a plane, that
can be very scary.
And I definitely think we can dobetter in terms of epinephrine
supply on planes, I absolutelythink there needs to be allergy,
dosed epinephrine on everysingle airplane.
(31:46):
And you know, one of the thingsthat I didn't even, when I did,
don't kill the birthday girl, Ididn't even fully appreciate
was.
The issues right now of evenwhen they say there is
epinephrine on a plane, a lot oftimes it's not dosed for
allergy.
It might be dosed for cardiac.
You need to be a medicalprofessional to handle, you
know, a syringe and needlecomfortably.
There's all of these things thatcould be so much better than
they are right now.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (32:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would add to that, notjust the accessibility on
planes, but everywhere.
I think there's so much room tohave stock epi in every school,
on every ambulance, every firstresponder vehicle.
Like there are so many placeswhere, where it's just such an
easy and inexpensive thing tohave on hand.
So I echo that for sure.
Sandra Beasley (32:25):
Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (32:26):
We moved away from the piece that you
were talking about withadjusting to this new life with
your husband and now his dietaryneeds and kind of that co
caregiving role that's sodifferent
Sandra Beasley (32:36):
you know, I'm still still working my way
through the material.
just to kind of give it a, afleshed out exemplar, he is
fortunately not on dialysisright now, but when he was on
dialysis and he was reallystruggling with his energy
levels, they were pretty bluntabout the fact that, you know,
eggs for, for breakfast on a daythat he di had dialysis was
(32:56):
gonna be an excellent resource.
Now, when we got married, we, wecreated a household that.
Didn't have eggs in it, didn'thave milk in it, didn't have
these things that, that I wasallergic to, just to make it
practical and easy.
Right?
So things had to come into myfridge that had not been in my
fridge before.
And, and we, and then inaccordance, there were things
(33:19):
that we had.
Previously loved to share like,uh, citrus, you know, like just
he's a Florida boy.
Uh, and just little things likethat that all of a sudden we
couldn't, tomatoes, we couldn't,you know, we, so, so in the same
way that I might have some areasof the world that I would
hesitate to travel to the use ofcheese is particularly, uh,
(33:40):
permeating, he now might.
Not choose to not be as excitedto go somewhere where tomatoes
are served left and right.
So you just, you know, you justkind of have to, um, you have to
grow with one another and youhave to adapt.
Same thing I can remember being.
Horrified when some of my foodallergic reactions had me in the
(34:00):
bathroom for, you know, an houror something like that, or just
uncut you scared oruncomfortable.
Now he's the one who might findhimself, uh, you know, dealing
with a kidney stone, forexample.
We, we've had to, to get to knoweach other's lives because of
these medicalized bodies in away that I think ultimately.
Many marriages do require, butuh, maybe a little faster and
(34:25):
under slightly more tensecircumstances
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (34:28):
Right, and, and, yeah.
More dangerous, more, moreserious in terms of the health
implications.
Sandra Beasley (34:33):
And it's also, I mean, um, just one of the things
that, when I started talkingabout food allergies, I thought
it was so important to talkabout was food allergies and
alcohol.
And that was because a lot oftimes the, the heaviness of
advice and, and guidelinesdropped away, right?
As, uh, people with foodallergies entered their young
adults.
Ears and could legally drink.
(34:54):
You know, and I, and I don'tthink a lot of parents really
had, were having frankconversations about how when you
put alcohol in the mix, it wouldget more complicated.
You can talk about that from theangle of the alcohol, literally
exacerbating a reaction.
You can talk about the danger ofcombining alcohol with
antihistamines.
You can talk about the factthat, um, bar and restaurant
(35:16):
menus are inconsistent withlabeling for food allergens in.
You know, in, in the alcoholsthemselves or in the garnishes,
the fact that the, the, the waysgarnishes are handled at the bar
doesn't necessarily guardagainst cross contact.
I mean, it's just, you know,it's a huge topic.
I thought it was, I thought thatwas a place where my voice could
really make a difference.
(35:38):
Uh, ironically, one of thethings about, um, what my
husband's dealing with now isthat he, he can't drink anymore.
And that's, that's kind of toobad because it was, there have
been so many times where I'vebeen in a space where, because
of my allergies, I reallycouldn't freely enjoy what
everyone else was eating.
But I did have the opportunityto, to be able to drink what,
(35:58):
uh, you know, alongside everyoneelse.
And now I'm trying to.
Figure out how to negotiatethat, um, with someone for whom
it's no longer medically anoption.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (36:08):
Right.
It's a good example of how overtime, people always ask about
coping skills, how do you copewith your allergies?
But, you know, yours haveprobably shifted over the years
and then in this instance,probably shifted again the most
quickly and drastically.
You know, we, I don't keep it inthe house.
It, it relieves my anxiety aboutexposure'cause it's not in the
house.
But now you need to have it.
And here's how I cope withsocial situations.
I have a drink if I can't eatand I don't feel left out.
(36:31):
And now your spouse, has, has tocome at it from the opposite
direction.
Yeah.
I just think these lives arecomplicated and, and again, I
just go back to.
Yes, do I?
Do I carry more levels ofanxiety or unusual levels of
anxiety or anxiety attached tothings that other people take
for granted?
(36:51):
Yes, I do.
But
Sandra Beasley (36:53):
I just want to say over and over again to
people who are either in mysituation or parents to people
in my situation who feel.
Fearful for your child.
I, I don't regret anything abouthow I navigate the world.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:07):
Like I don't, it, it,
Sandra Beasley (37:09):
these things, although they are hardships,
they are hardships that make usmore.
Complicated and rigorous andinteresting people.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:17):
And you know, I'm not gonna go so far as
just put a silver lining onwhat's happened for my husband.
That's not, that's definitelynot my place to do.
But, but
Sandra Beasley (37:25):
I do think you just have to embrace, this is
the life, you know, you occupythe life as fully as you can.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:31):
And you learn, and you learn.
And for me, like the bestguardian against anxiety is
always knowledge.
Absolutely.
Knowledge gives us control,right?
Knowledge gives us some, someaspect of an experience that we
can control.
I did get a couple of questionsfrom readers.
I've been trying to pepper them.
I know I touched on some ofthem, one of them asked on that,
(37:52):
the note that you just finishedon, what is a surprising thing
that you've learned aboutyourself through both allergies
and through your writing?
Sandra Beasley (38:00):
Hmm.
People like to often typifywriters and particularly poets
as introverts.
the of being a writer in theworld has absolutely, brought
out my extrovert tendencieshugely.
Like, and, and I say that onmultiple levels.
(38:21):
I say that based on the yearsthat I was writing.
About external subjects.
And so I was interviewing,musicians for example, and
really had to do things like goget, go, get sound bites and,
stop people and ask themquestions.
the many places where I'veappeared on a stage or in an
audience and been sharing frommy work and answering questions,
I actually, I deeply love beingaround people.
(38:44):
I'm charged up by people andthat is not something I think I
fully understood about myself,until I.
Embrace the identity of being awriter.
so it requires trust.
I would just add, you know,like, and, and I, it's, it's
ironic that I've chosen,something that requires as much.
Travel and as much being hostedby other people given my food.
(39:07):
Allergies, definitely have hadthe scenario of showing up to
events where someone had verycarefully catered something,
which I could not eat a thingdefinitely.
But I've also had the opposite.
I've had, you know, very, veryattentive and, and I don't take
it personally either way.
It's just funny.
Um, but, so I think discoveringmy extrovert qualities,
(39:27):
discovering, trying to be funny.
Discovering that you have toalways be open to the absurdity
in painful moments as a copingmechanism, but a little better
than that, a living mechanism,um, when you're dealing with,
with medical crises.
I mean, that's something that,that, you know, the fact that
(39:48):
husband and I already had abaseline of being able to, to
joke about fairly grim medicalcircumstances based on my food
allergies came in really handyin the ICU some days.
Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (40:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you mentioning thatabout humor and, and being able
to take that approach to itmakes me think of.
You using your poetry as, as, amethod of doing that.
Your poetry speaks for itself interms of, of using humor in the,
in the ways that you'redescribing.
I was wondering if you wouldmind reading, one of your poems
for us about allergies.
Sandra Beasley (40:21):
Yeah.
So I mean, one thing that I wason the front end of is, um, I
talk about don't kill thebirthday girl.
Watching a couple of differentmovies or TV shows where food
allergy was used as a punchline.
Right.
And I would love to say that isno longer the case, but man, I
keep getting new examples toadd.
I was, I was, binge watchingsmash, while my husband was on a
(40:43):
trip recently and, towards theend of season one.
And there's two seasons, this isnot a spoiler Totally.
But there's a character who'sintroduced and.
First time her peanut allergywas mentioned in a restaurant.
I was like, Ooh.
'cause there actually ended upbeing a pretty intelligent,
informed discussion about, wellif, if you're in this part of
India, the cuisine is morelikely to have it, but in this
(41:04):
part it's less.
And I thought, well that'sactually a very sensitive, like,
gosh, does someone on the staffthink about peanut allergy or,
but then it was mentioned inanother episode where she had to
run out for like safe, and I waslike, Ooh.
And I, I couldn't stop myself.
I had been enjoying the show inreal time, but I immediately
looked up the, the episodesummaries.
I was like, there's gonna be anallergic reaction and it's gonna
(41:25):
be either a humor point or asuspense point.
And sure enough, it became,becomes this whole circumstance
under which, you know, she hasto leave the show and it causes,
and someone is intentionally,quote unquote, poisoned her
shake with, with powder.
And, and then she's like, butactually, I.
Ate it intentionally.
'cause I didn't wanna be in theit.
The point was, the moment Istart, I saw enough of the
(41:48):
signals.
I was like, well, now I knowwhat's gonna happen.
Right?
squadcaster-h2g4_1_03-11-20 (41:50):
can see it.
Sandra Beasley (41:51):
anyone with food allergy, I think can recognize
that kind of, Ugh.
So this there, the poem that Iwanna read is one.
That's in dialogue with that.
'cause there have been timesover the years where someone has
come up to me and said, I thinkyou're gonna love, and it's a
book, or a movie or a TV show,and invariably it's like someone
being victimized through theirfood allergy.
(42:12):
It's like, what made you thinkthat?
I would be so excited to seethat example.
So, so yeah, this poem is calledby Chocolate.
Uh, there's a tradition in theliterary world where we, we
write little.
endorsements for each other'sbooks.
They're called blurbs.
This may or may not be based onan actual request for a blurb
(42:33):
that I received, Death byChocolate.
A man wants my take on his novelwhere a wife dies with a peanut
in her mouth after we've met herhusband in the act with his
secretary in the passenger seatof a late life convertible.
(42:54):
A man wants my take on his novelwhere the husband's marital
issues are solved by heranaphylactic collapse after he
serves her takeout, spiked witha cashew, and for another 300
pages, he wonders.
Was it an accident or did Iknow?
(43:17):
Somewhere out there, a man iswriting a novel about a chef
with a taste for adding shrimppaste to curry and his
unsuspecting shellfish allergicwife, and I'll be asked for my
take on it.
I have been offered dozens oftakes on my own death.
Suggestions Abound.
(43:37):
Death by ice cream, death bycake, death by cucumber, though
that would take a while per se.
Perhaps gazpacho as a shortcut.
Death by mango.
Death by Spanish omelet, deathby dairy, an abstraction sexy to
someone who has never side eyedcream, brought out sloping
(44:00):
toward the coffee, who has neverfelt histamine's palm at her
throat, who says cheese makeslife worth living.
These wives, I get you women whodid not grow up aspiring to be a
plot device.
We almost die a lot or we die alot almost.
(44:25):
We're over it.
Our mouths have more to say.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (44:33):
thank you so much for sharing that.
Showing us how much more you'vebecome than a plot device,
right?
Or, or just, just just this girlconfined to a memoir about her
food allergies.
And for those who are listening,we mentioned your, uh, memoir,
but not your poetry books, whichare made to explode.
Theories of falling.
I was the jukebox and count thewaves.
(44:55):
Those are probably out ofchronological order of
publication, but I have'em in apot here on my desk.
Sandra Beasley (45:00):
Yeah, it's actually great the way you
mentioned them because theoriesof falling, my first book, uh,
really has the food allergypoems that relate to a, a kind
of childhood and young adultpersona.
So a more, a more straight hand,uh, recollecting from memory.
The, the food allergy poems itmade to explode, I think are
really taking a step, um,towards looking at it through.
(45:20):
The lens of, of disability, ofdisability rights, you know, and
thinking about, uh, the ways inwhich the problem is not always
necessarily the food allergy,but the societal attitudes
around the food allergy.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (45:33):
Well, thank you so much for bringing
so much light to that andexplaining it with so much more
depth than we usually get tohear.
I, you've been, you couldn'thave been kinder in this whole
process, and I love hearing yourtake and, and your perspective
on things and how vulnerable youshare your, your experiences
with the world through yourwriting.
I.
Sandra Beasley (45:50):
Well, thank you for this podcast.
I just think that this, theseare conversations that people
want to be having, need to behaving, and they're, they're,
it's not the same conversationover and over.
There's so many nuances andlayers to.
what people need to share.
So I really appreciate whatyou're doing.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (46:06):
Well, thank you.
I would love to have you backwhen your next book is ready for
people to read.
Will you keep me posted and I'llWill, I'll follow you along.
Tell us where we can find you,on social media.
Where's the best place to buyyour book?
Sandra Beasley (46:16):
Yeah, we'll always support your local
bookstore.
So like in the DC area thatincludes a few different, we've
we're great for bookstores, butpolitics and prose, I love.
Um, yeah, my books are, arefairly widely available and uh,
I am.
All over the social mediaplatforms, although like many,
uh, I'm, I don't always post asregularly as I have in the past,
(46:39):
but just look for me at SandraBeasley or at Sandra Beasley.
Author, author Sandra Beasley.
And, uh, I'm always, alwayshappy to engage with people
one-on-one on social media orreally even just by email.
I'm, I'm findable.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (46:53):
Very easy for me to find and very
responsive.
So thank you so much for, forbeing so receptive.
Sandra Beasley (46:58):
Thank you.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (47:01):
Here are your three action steps to
follow up on today'sconversation.
Number one, check out SandraBeasley on social media at
Sandra Beasley.
She's very easy to find and veryresponsive, as she said in the
episode.
Number two, read her memoir orher poetry.
They're easy to find online.
I prefer to use bookshop.org tosupport independent bookstores,
(47:23):
and you'll find a link to thatin the notes as well as a link
to the essay we discussed fromSandra's upcoming book.
The essay is also very easy tofind if you search for, To Catch
a Sunset on the American ScholarNumber three, follow Sandra's
beautiful lead and do somenarrative therapy.
Writing can be so healing andpowerful for processing
(47:43):
difficult experiences andintegrating them into our sense
of self.
In psychology, we call thisnarrative therapy, and it is an
evidence-based approach tohealing trauma.
A simple practice is to write aletter to your younger self.
Reflecting on a past experience,your thoughts and feelings at
the time, and how it looks andfeels to you from your current
vantage point.
(48:04):
If you're a young personlistening or want to encourage a
young person in your life to trythis, an alternative is to flip
this and to imagine your olderself looking back on the
experience now, once you are anolder, wiser, more mature and
experienced person, and what youimagine you'd say about it years
down the road.
Once you're done, you can saveit in a journal.
(48:25):
You can burn it, you can rip itup there are no rules, but I
hope you'll give it a try.
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
(48:46):
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
I just want to say over and over again to
people who are either in mysituation or parents to people
in my situation who feel.
Fearful for your child.
I, I don't regret anything abouthow I navigate the world.
these things, although they arehardships, they are hardships
that make us more.
Complicated and rigorous andinteresting people.
(00:22):
I do think you just have toembrace, this is the life, you
know, you occupy the life asfully as you can.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (00:29):
Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear
podcast, where we dive into thecomplex world of food allergy
anxiety.
I'm your host, Dr.
Amanda Whitehouse, food allergyanxiety psychologist and food
allergy mom.
Whether you're dealing withallergies yourself or supporting
someone who is, join us for anempathetic and informative
journey toward food allergy calmand confidence..
(00:50):
I am so excited to get to meetand have on the show my guest
today, Sandra Beasley, she's theauthor of Don't Kill the
Birthday Girl (00:57):
Tales From An Allergic Life, a disability
memoir about her own foodallergies.
Her nonfiction has appeared inthe New York Times, Washington
Post Wall Street Journal,psychology Today, the American
Scholar, Virginia QuarterlyReview, lit Hub, and a harp and
the stars and anthology of lyricessays.
She has also published fourpoetry collections, including
(01:18):
Made to Explode, and she editedvinegar and char verse from the
Southern Foodways Alliance.
Sandra's honors include an NEAFellowship.
The Munster Literature CentersJohn Montague Fellowship and six
DC Commission on the Arts andHumanities Fellowships.
She lives in Washington, DC.
Sandra, thank you for joining metoday to talk about your writing
(01:41):
and your work and about yourlife managing allergies.
I'm really happy to have youhere.
Sandra Beasley (01:45):
I'm thrilled to be here.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (01:47):
Your book Don't Kill The Birthday Girl,
was published in 2011 and my sonwas diagnosed in 2012.
So it was perfect timing for mein terms of finding your book
when I needed it the most.
And that's what this season orthe podcast is all about.
Where, where do we find support?
It's not always people that weknow in real life.
you mentioned in your bookTaking Refuge in books, and I do
(02:08):
too.
And so I'm excited to have thechance to thank you personally
for sharing what you did itreally ties in your personal
experiences with.
The topics that are, importantto know about and understand,
you merged life, experience withhistory and, political issues
and all those things really wellin the book.
Sandra Beasley (02:26):
I really appreciate that.
And one thing that I wouldmention is that I, I very
consciously wrote the book intoa gap that I saw, because years
ago I.
had the opportunity to speakwith a, a literary agent, and I
went in there thinking I wouldlike to try my hand at writing
nonfiction.
I'd only really publishedpoetry, up till that point, and
(02:48):
I was talking about varioustopics for a book.
And frankly, he wasn't, thatinterested in X, Y, or Z.
But when I mentioned the foodallergies, he, he paused and he
said, you know, that's, theremight be something there.
And when I went home from thatmeeting, I realized there
really.
Was a gap where there was a tonof very high science, fairly
(03:09):
dense writing about foodallergy.
Uh, and then very, verypractical.
You know, here's the, here's therecipes, here's the tips,
self-help.
But there wasn't anything thatfelt like a compelling organic
narrative of what the actualexperience was like.
And I thought, well, you know,I, I would wanna read that and,
and.
(03:29):
So I guess I have to write it.
that really opened something upfor me.
And I will just say that theconversations I've had as a
result of this book have beenincredible because all it takes
is you offering up your ownexperience to just let people
feel like they can finally offerup there, as in return.
Dr. Amanda Whitehou (03:46):
Absolutely.
I agree with you.
I think we still see that gapand maybe, more people will
continue to fill that in.
I think I'm trying to do thatwith the podcast here and hoping
to do that with you today.
Diving in a little bit deeper inconversation beyond kind of the
surface level of experiences.
I was hoping we could start justwith.
The title, I won't say I loveyour title.
but it's really powerful indepicting, one of the themes
(04:07):
that I think is of your book,how you're shaped by this
experience.
So would you mind telling usabout how you came up with that?
Sandra Beasley (04:13):
Sure.
I mean, I had in poetry writtena sequence called Allergy Girl,
and I came to working on aproposal for, for a memoir,
thinking that was going to be avariation of the title.
And then as it got closer, Irealized that wasn't quite.
Doing enough to capture the, thevalues that I wanted.
(04:36):
I wanted to show that this wasgoing to, weirdly enough, be a
book with a sense of humor.
And so I tried to pull somethingfrom the memory bank of my
childhood with food allergy thathad a little bit of an element
of the absurd, and I could justremember my mother's cheerful
voice at, at birthday parties orat family celebrations where,
(04:56):
you know, everyone wouldcritique in a dessert and then
she'd be like.
Don't kill the birthday girl.
You know, like, just kind ofhands off from Sandra.
'cause we had, had, we'd had theexperience of like, really great
evening and then at the end ofthe night, well-meaning, uh,
relative just giving me a bigfat kiss on the cheek where just
I would immediately get a hive,you know?
(05:17):
And so it was, um, it, it, itfelt like it had that right, uh,
storytelling element that Ireally wanted to share with
folks.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (05:26):
And it seems like you must have had to
do a fair amount of researchtoo, because you really do tie
in a lot of factual, informationabout allergies along with your
experiences.
What was that like living it andthen having to dive into
learning about a different.
Inside of it.
Sandra Beasley (05:39):
Yeah.
When I originally committed towriting the book, I really
thought of it as a culturalhistory of food allergy with a
little bit of memoir, and itbecame clear in the conversation
with the publisher that whatthey wanted was a memoir with a.
A bit of research and culturalhistory and, and in some ways,
there were, there were.
Kind of hardships of trying todo the research that I just
(06:01):
didn't know enough to know thatI was going to run into, like,
the fact that literally the wordallergy wasn't coined until the
20th century.
So you can't just do a neat wordsearch, and, and find, I mean,
you, you can find the medicalcase histories that are relevant
to food allergy once you knowwhat to look for, but it's not
as simple as a keyword search.
(06:21):
and so I, I actually, um.
Years ago, studied science,fairly seriously when I was a
younger student and chose to goin the direction of creative
writing and, and of English.
And it was fun for me to go backinto having that vocabulary,
having to develop that abilityto, to synthesize, fairly dense
(06:42):
studies and, and get the, getthe top line results, get a
layman's understanding andreally think a lot about
creating metaphors.
That, that could kind oftransform and create
understanding for anyone and notleave them feeling boxed out by
the science or, or the degree ofhistory, which in a way is what
my allergist all those yearsago, had to do for me when I was
(07:03):
like, five, six years old tryingto explain to a kid why their
blood is quote unquote rejectingor attacking certain things as,
as they eat them.
So I was really felt a, akinship with.
All the pediatric allergists inthe world who are also trying to
get pretty complex scientificinformation and make it a
palatable for, for the peoplewho need it.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (07:25):
That makes me curious, how did you
make that jump then with thisinterest in science that you had
to becoming a writer?
Sandra Beasley (07:33):
When I moved forward in the world, I realized
was that I could.
writing and always invite in thetexture of science and nature
and things I could research.
in order to be a writer, youhave to really commit to, to
nourishing that communityelement too.
(07:53):
Going to readings constantlykind of networking and moving
through the world as a writer,and I think it would've been
hard for me to maintain thepoetry side of myself if I had.
Fully pursued a profession inthe sciences honestly.
So you, you kind of pick whichone is going to be the, the, the
primary and which one is goingto be the, the secondary.
(08:14):
And, and I just ultimately felttoo called to, to books and
literature.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (08:19):
I'm just kind of shifting my perspective
because I obviously read, don'tKill the Birthday Girl first and
then found your poetry.
but it sounds like you're sayingyou are, you're a writer that's
just such a big part of you thatyou needed to do that and did,
did your life with allergies,shape that?
Sandra Beasley (08:34):
I do think that my food allergy is central to
who I am.
It's, I, I don't think of it asa compartmentalized thing or
something that, I would takeaway if I could.
At this point, it's completely,embedded in, in how I approach
the world, which is it in a veryobservant way, a very.
Discerning way, I hope a veryempathetic way.
(08:54):
And those are all qualities thatI think are essentially enriched
by my experience with foodallergy.
I did take a long time to bringfood allergy onto the page.
It, it took me a really longtime to think that that was
something that was worthy ofappearing in a poem or appearing
in an essay.
there's a lot of differentreasons for that.
writing nonfiction is alwayshard, but, but I also think that
(09:17):
there was a certain, um.
know, if you think about foodallergy through a disability
lens, I think early on some ofmy workshop experiences, uh,
kind of, there might've beensome, what we would call ableist
or some, some determination onfocus on the upside, focus on
the strengths about you.
Why would you wanna talk about aweakness, you know?
(09:37):
so it, it took me a while toclaim it.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (09:40):
looking back on it now, it's been about
14 years since you've originallypublished the book, the allergy
world information is changing sorapidly.
What do you feel holds true andwhat do you feel looks different
to you now looking back?
Sandra Beasley (09:53):
So, as I mentioned, the, the book came in
part out of a conversation witha, a literary agent, which was
through a contest that I had wonfor my poetry.
So really kind of an odd, so Ihave to be honest, this was not
a book I had spent.
I.
A number of years planningtowards this was a book where
all of a sudden, in a matter of,of less than six months, I had a
(10:14):
book contract with a year'sdeadline.
So I, I, you know, I had to kindof very quickly calibrate how I
was going to approach writingthe book that said.
I was extraordinarily lucky inthat, that period of 2008, 2009,
I feel like we had a crest ofunderstanding of, of the
(10:35):
science, of food allergy.
The LEAP study was, was alreadyin play.
we didn't have results from it,but there was a, I think a, a
very sophisticated.
way of talking about foodallergy that was beginning to
burgeon, uh, at that time.
So I was fortunate in that whenI went looking for studies, the
studies were there.
Now, of course, I wish I couldhave had access to the studies
(10:57):
that came out in 2013 and, and,2017 and leap and leap on and
all the things that we know nowthat we didn't know back then.
And, and that I think is the,the forever.
Frustration of choosing to writeabout the sciences or the
medicalized body.
You have to accept the realitythat, you, you do the best with
(11:17):
what you can and the informationyou have at the time, it will
continue to change outunderneath you.
And that's why where I had donea lifetime's worth of research
was the personal stories, andthat's, no one could take those
away from me.
and, and I always try to say topeople, it is a.
It's a memoir, it's not amanual.
I know that there are timeswhere as an individual in this
(11:38):
book, I handle allergicreactions in ways that is
probably a parent's worstnightmare to read.
But that doesn't mean it doesn'thappen.
And, and that to me was theultimate responsibility I had,
was to be as honest as possibleso that if that opened up a
conversation between a parent.
And not even a child, but ateenager or a young adult,
(11:59):
maybe, maybe those wereconversations that needed to be
had, and if someone didn'tcreate the umbrella of being
open, how could you create ashelter for those, those
conversations.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (12:10):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think in rereading it now,obviously it struck me so
differently than it did thenbecause at the time I had a, a
baby, with allergies and I couldcontrol absolutely everything
and, and.
Thought that, oh, well my childwould never, you know, I would
make sure my child knows not todo some of these things that now
I'm reading them and I have a13-year-old, or are you're
right, anxiety provoking toread.
(12:30):
But that's what I think we areboth mentioning as far as diving
deeper beyond the surface leveldiscussions because, um, it does
happen.
Kids do feel these things asmuch as we try to educate them
or what they have access to.
and so I think it's reallypowerful for you to have shared
that.
Despite, like you said it someof it is, it's tough to read the
way that you handled certainthings that you probably would
(12:50):
not hope do today in your adultlife.
I mean, I, I was trying toremember, you know, I was
thinking about the stories of mylife that have happened after
the book of written was cameout, or even the stories that.
I, for whatever reason, I didn'tinclude in the book, and I was
thinking about one thing that,which is years, I mean, years
ago, like when I was a kid, Iremember, being, playing with my
(13:14):
cat and like flicking kibbleacross the floors, if a cat
would, would chase it andwithout a second thought, I
popped a piece of a kibble intomy mouth in the way that like a
six or 7-year-old might do.
Sure.
Sandra Beasley (13:32):
A split second later thought, my God, this is a
food, this is a, this is a food.
And thankfully I didn't have areaction in that moment, or at
least not one that I can recall,but realizing later that yes,
shrimp was one of theingredients.
Now, at that point, if you'retalking about a single bit of
kibble, it's such an infinitedecimal, you know?
But, but we know, we know thateven the smallest amount can
(13:53):
cause a reaction.
Right?
And so, you know, gosh.
Are, are people thinking to talkto very young kids about making
sure they know whether the petfood in the house has their food
allergens in it?
Kids are kids.
You never know where they'regonna Right.
Well, and how telling that youas a somewhere around 6-year-old
would even stop to think thatbecause obviously no other child
(14:14):
who hasn't had this lifeexperience would, that would
never cross their mind.
Like, is it okay for me to eatthis?
how many kids bite?
Bite into a dog biscuit at somepoint, you know, practically
rite of passage.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (14:25):
I most if, yeah, absolutely.
Well, and I should have probablyasked earlier on, but maybe this
is a good point for me to pauseand have you, tell people who
are listening, what yourallergies are.
Sandra Beasley (14:35):
Yeah.
you.
Yes.
Um, dairy, which I am, I usuallyam saying cow's milk, but the
reality is I've had reactions togoat's milk and sheep's milk as
well.
Um, and just recently the FDAhas kind of played around with
its definitions of.
Of dairy to more caly includethose, those considerations.
Uh, chicken, egg, um, beefshrimp, macadamia pistachios,
(15:03):
cashews, uh, pine nuts, whichthe first couple of times I ate
them, I could eat them.
And then I, I started havingconsistently and, and more and
more severe reactions, mango,uh, cantaloupe and, That's
always a pain because if you goto a hotel and there's a
inexpensive free breakfast, thefruit salad always honeydew and
(15:25):
cantaloupe in it, which I amallergic to both of those.
cucumber.
Mustard in the sense of Dijonmustard.
I've never quite figured out ifit's the issue as a egg and as
an emulsifier, the thing is, isthat when you have allergies
like mine and when you have ahistory of as many severe
reactions as I do, and yes, I'vegotten a, a couple of levels of
(15:48):
testing over the years, but youknow, you hit a moment where.
Am I allergic to lobster?
I don't know.
I know I'm allergic to shrimp.
And the idea of me beingmotivated to do an oral food
challenge with lobster, which isa very expensive in the first
place, is very low.
And so, you know, there, there,there's a category of foods that
(16:10):
it's, it's very possible that Ihave allergies too.
But honestly, um, at this pointin my adult life, I might just
never know.
and information is powerful andI know the importance of, of
having that information.
And what I don't, necessarilywant is the flip side of, uh, a
child or a family.
(16:30):
avoiding a food that if it, itturns out if an oral food
challenge had been done, infact, if a child could have
eaten, you know, I think, um,this is just anecdotal, but I, I
think my mom was telling me,reminding me the other day that
I'm pretty sure that based onthe initial, uh.
What would've been like RAstesting or blood testing back
then?
(16:50):
You know, it was claiming I wasallergic to pineapple and that
that's not something that evermanifested in allergy.
And in fact, it was wrong overand over again before.
But if we had just.
Gone forward with that oneresult, that could have been a
whole lifetime of missing out mytrips to Hawaii would've not
been nearly as fun, you know?
And so, so it is, I think, Ithink that even with all of the
(17:12):
improvements in science, we'restill between a rock and a hard
place.
Um, and, and all I can say isthat I'm glad that there's, I
think there's a lot of activeattention to, to figuring out
better options for, fordiagnostics.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (17:24):
I agree.
And in an informed way with theperspectives, like what you've
shared in mind, not without anyconsideration.
I.
Sandra Beasley (17:30):
Yeah, it's, it's, you know, I think that we
have to be honest about theemotional and logistical time
commitments and, and, you know,money commitments that involve
families caring for a child'sfood allergy with, whether it's
the diagnostic visits or,treatments twice a month or it's
just, it's a tremendous.
(17:51):
It, I don't wanna say burdenbecause I think you just, you,
you, you just embrace that it'spart of living the life you
have, but, but the, the costsare real and they're there.
And, even, even just the, thehappenstance stuff adds up.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (18:08):
Yeah, the little things add up, um, which.
Makes me wanna ask you what,what's the biggest single thing,
looking back on your life, whatwas the biggest moment that
really, was traumatizing orstuck with you?
Sandra Beasley (18:21):
There was no one.
reaction that comes to mind.
even though I've, I've over theyears had reactions that were
painful or embarrassing ormysterious in ways that were
frustrating or expensive.
but I never really of those astraumatizing.
(18:44):
I do sometimes think with regretof.
The handful of things that Isaid no to, where I think really
deep down it was anxiety relatedto food allergy.
I was just thinking the otherday about I got a sudden invite
to go to an international poetryconference.
I had just done a poetry readingin, Cyprus and, and I.
(19:06):
I soon after got an invitationto go to and do a poetry
festival in Turkey.
And in hindsight, it was anamazing opportunity, but I
wouldn't have had the sameinfrastructure of protections
around me, just because of theway it was organized.
I just would've had lessguarantees of a host or English
speaker, and I justfundamentally.
I just couldn't handle thestress of it honestly.
(19:29):
Uh, and, and those are thethings that, not trauma, but it,
it is a degree of regret, andthat's where I have to remind
myself that there really aresome life experiences that I've
kind of missed out on or had ina more compromised manner
because of my food allergy.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (19:44):
Is loss maybe a better word for it?
Sandra Beasley (19:47):
Yeah, and I think, I, I ended up choosing
not to have children, which isa, a question that's left open
at the end of Don't kill theBirthday girl.
And I still to this day, amoften in conversations where
we'll be talking about, foodallergy best practices or
options.
And when you bring up the, thepotential reality of being the
(20:08):
parent with severe food allergy.
To a child who you're trying tohelp not have that food allergy,
and you try to talk about earlyintroduction, for example, to
something that you yourself,may, may be allergic to.
A lot of times the answers arereally not good.
The, I mean, not I, I mean notgood, as in they're not, they're
not established.
There's not really the languagearound it that you might wish
(20:31):
that there was.
And I think that's somethingthat we as a, a culture can work
on.
But also, um, I, again, Iconsider my food allergy.
to who I am, but I don't thinkI'll ever quite know what it
would've been like to weigh thedecision of, of whether or not
to have kids if I hadn't hadthe, these allergies.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (20:52):
Right.
You can't remove that from.
The whole of who you are.
Sandra Beasley (20:55):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (20:56):
Well, and you, you mentioned just now and
touched earlier too on how theprocess of writing the, the
memoir and putting, theallergies on the page for the
first time with the poetry.
in, in my field and mentalhealth, we talk a lot about how
narrative therapy can be helpfuland about how, putting your
experiences together into acoherent story helps shape your
sense of who you are and processand integrate them.
did there come a time when yourealized that's what you were
(21:18):
about to do, or is it, was it inretrospect can you talk about
the experience of doing thatthrough your writing?
Sandra Beasley (21:24):
I my graduate studies in creative writing at
American University, and there'sa, a teacher and writer.
He is passed away now.
Out, but his name was RichardMcCann and Richard was the
recipient of a liver transplantand had written about that and I
kind of had this notion.
Towards the very, very, veryend, my thesis semester in the
(21:47):
graduate program, like maybe Ishould try writing about my
allergies.
And he was my advisor on mythesis, and I'm so grateful in
hindsight because he was a greatsounding board for what I was
struggling with, which wastrying to figure out how to use
a.
Slightly technical vocabularyof, something like
immunoglobulin or something likethat.
But, I, I liked the stickinessof words like that, but I also
(22:09):
recognized that it was a fragilebalance to use a word like that
in a poem and how to, how to dothat mix of movements.
And it was something that he hadhad to think about in his essays
about the transplant experienceand, and in general his health.
so that kind of lured me in.
I and, and that is something Ithink about a lot.
As a teacher, I'm not, currentlyI'm not doing teaching as my
(22:31):
primary income, but there havebeen years in my life where it
has been.
And I often think about justholding open the door for
someone else who wants to writeabout the medicalized body, but
just needs to be in dialoguewith someone who knows, who
knows what it's like.
that's, it makes a hugedifference.
the only thing I'll say in termsof writing about it in poetry
versus.
Prose is that poetry is often aspace where you, you do open up
(22:54):
to melancholy.
You know, when, back when I wasin my dating days, if someone
said, well, why don't I evershow up in your poems?
I'm like, if you are showing upin our poems, this is probably
not a good sign for ourrelationship.
This really, and similarly.
I think what's interesting is inthe couple of small cameos that
that parents, I'm not gonna saymy parents,'cause poems don't
(23:17):
necessarily have thatstipulative truth, value, but
parents in the food allergypoems, it's, it's often in a
place of kind of, fraughtmelancholy or, or stress.
and yet in Don't kill theBirthday Girl.
And I'm glad I got to do this.
I got to show my parents,'causethat's a memoir, in, in a really
(23:37):
appreciative light because thereality is whatever stresses my
family was encountering over theyears, it almost always brought
out the best in them when I was,when I was dealing with my
allergies.
I really, and I reallyappreciate that.
I know that's not necessarilythe case for every family, but
in many cases it was.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (23:54):
Yeah.
Which is, it's such a complexthing to explore.
you shared an essay with me andif it's okay, I'll.
Link it and the essay, I'll letyou summarize it because it's
too complex for me to even, toeven do, but it, it.
Going from the summary that youjust said about, always being
able to see that their bestlight, their best self shined
through when you needed them,but yet to explore the
(24:15):
complexities the way you did inthe essay that you shared with
me.
Parents, I.
Who are listening to process andreally be mindful and conscious
about how they're filling theirrole as an allergy parent, not
just managing the day to day.
that at least that's what itbrought up themes of for me.
And I will warn people if youwanna read, read when you have
time to really process, becauseit's not a fluff piece.
(24:36):
it's complicated and I applaudyou for tackling it.
Can you talk about that for us?
Sandra Beasley (24:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, so, so what I just saidis true, which is that I think
my mother, in her capacity tolearn to self-educate about food
allergy, I mean, again, this wasthe eighties.
There was so much lessinformation than there is now.
So to self-educate, to be on thelookout for me to, to get at the
technical levels of.
Food and treatment and reactionsto be brave when I was reacting
(25:04):
and needed someone to, to feellike they were in charge and
that I was protected.
All of that is, is great, butthat anxiety and stress doesn't,
you know, that doesn'tdisappear.
It, it gets, you know, it gets.
Ends up being saved up and, andperhaps expressing itself in
other times, in other settingswhere in that moment, you're,
you're not necessarily in thesuperhero, adrenaline mode of
(25:25):
protecting your child, butyou're just, just a flawed human
making your way through theworld.
And, you know, and bless mymother for.
reading that essay and, andletting me publish it.
'cause it does capture, um, someof the inevitable pressure
valves that have to be releasedwhen you're a food allergy
parent.
I think.
Um, yeah.
(25:45):
So that's, you know, it, it'sabout, it's about mothers and
daughters.
It's about food allergy anxiety.
It goes back to generation andtalks about my, my grandmother
and her mother as figures aswell.
Although their, their food,their story doesn't have food
allergy in it and it's just,it's just really thinking about
caregiving and the thing thatI'll, disclose just'cause it's
(26:06):
in the work that I'm doing now.
Is it literally the day after Ifinished writing that essay, I
wrote that essay in Alaska andthe day after I finished it, I
got the call that my husband wasback at home in DC in the
hospital.
and he was in fact.
within 24 hours on, on ecmo.
So he was extremely ill, andended up being in the ICU for,
(26:29):
for three weeks.
And my point is, is that I endedup having to go through this
searing, discussion ofcaregiving on the page, and then
I went home and all of a suddenwas.
The caregiver.
And in fact, actually my motherslept on my couch for a week to
help me just get my lifetogether because he, my husband,
experienced multiple organfailure.
(26:49):
And, and part of what I'mwriting about now is trying to
reconcile the reality that cameto him, which was living with a
renal diet and a cardiac diet,and.
I thought I was gonna spend mylife with me as the one with
the, the dietary challenges.
And of course mine haven't goneaway, but now we're a household
(27:11):
of, of two sets of dietaryrestrictions and a need to
create mutual caregiving.
And so thinking a lot about that
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (27:20):
Yeah.
Sandra Beasley (27:20):
the anxiety, don't forget the anxiety.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (27:22):
Well, yes.
So much anxiety to go around.
It's such a powerful picture forme as a mom.
Thinking of, you writing thatpiece about your mom and how
that anxiety manifested for her,and then to come home to her
sleeping on your couch.
I.
To support you through now youhaving a mirrored experience as
you said, being the caregiver.
For me that was one of thestrongest connecting factors for
(27:43):
me with my own mom.
Um, different thing, but mysister had juvenile diabetes,
so, in a way that many peoplecouldn't understand.
She was able to relate to thisidea of caregiving in a way
that, other people might not beable to keep your child safe.
And, and that, I've processedthat a lot and your essay helped
me with that as well in terms ofthe impact it has on our
relationships.
Sandra Beasley (28:02):
Yeah.
and I'm glad, it's interestingthat you mentioned, um, juvenile
diabetes.
One of the things that if I.
Could go back in time and youknow, not rewrite the book, but
if I could, if I could justcounsel myself as I was writing
the book.
felt at the time a great deal ofpressure to differentiate and
make food allergies stand out.
(28:24):
And, and I think that wassomething my publisher wanted me
to do.
And the only thing that, um,especially as I eventually came
to think about food allergy morethrough the disability lens, I,
I wish that, you know, therewere times in the book where I
was trying to reallydifferentiate, for example,
wheat allergy from celiac, from,you know, gluten intolerance or,
or, um, thinking about.
(28:45):
Uh, I wish I had been able tospend a little bit more time
celebrating the similarstruggles and the, the potential
for, for combined empowermentversus some of the places where
I feel like I ended up, youknow, just pointing out, here's
how we're special, here's howwe're different, you know, and,
and again, that's just, uh,maybe a maturity thing, but it
was, it was really brought homeby the fact that after the book
(29:06):
came out, I had so many powerfulconversations with people.
One of whom, who comes to mind,who's.
Coming from the diabetes world.
and I just thought, oh man, likeI, I.
I would hate for them to readthis book and feel excluded from
it.
I even felt that way a littlebit with folks with peanut
allergy.
'cause I, I, I talk a lot aboutthe ways in which by the larger
public peanut allergy got liftedup and made the figurehead
(29:30):
allergy.
I mean, to this day, the myththat peanut allergies are more
serious than any other allergypersists, but that is not the
fault of people with peanutallergy.
Right.
I would hate for someone withpeanut allergy to enter my book
and to any way feel left outbecause it's not something that
I personally had experienced andcouldn't speak to with the same
passion.
(29:50):
But I get, I get the concern andI get the anxiety of irony was
when they designed the paperbackfor my book, they put a picture
of a peanut on the back.
Maybe someone who hadn'tactually read the book, but.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (30:05):
I was gonna say, did they read the
book?
And the way you're describingthis, uh, just from a personal
experience, it didn't comeacross that way to me, at least
as a parent with a child, withpeanut tree nut.
And then we added sesame later.
But initially it, it seemedpretty simple.
It was just nuts.
Um, when you were talking aboutflying and your experience
flying and should we eliminate,peanuts from planes, but.
(30:27):
Should we eliminate all ofeveryone's allergens for planes?
And it's just complicated.
And I would say your book helpedme to realize that when I was in
this fear state of like, get thepeanuts out of everywhere, not
actually being realistic ornecessarily fair.
Sandra Beasley (30:40):
Yeah.
I think that that is a, a very.
issue.
I mean, I certainly have had theanxiety of sitting down on a
plane and having someoneunwrapping a spectacularly
cheesy sandwich that they boughtat the airport right next to me.
And I just have to stay centeredin that moment and know that I
have things that I am empoweredto do to keep myself feeling
(31:01):
comfortable and safe.
And, you know, and look, I.
You can't rely on personalantidote, but I, I never have
had a, a reaction from that typeof adjacency.
I'm not, not gonna say exposure,but adjacency and all I can say
is I hope the same for, um, forany family with, with tree nut
allergy or peanut allergy.
But I also know it's harder withreal little kids.
(31:23):
'cause real little kids will.
Reach out and grab something andbe oblivious to, you know, to
whether or not they're, whatthey're putting in their mouth
so that when you are in a, aspace like, uh, a plane, that
can be very scary.
And I definitely think we can dobetter in terms of epinephrine
supply on planes, I absolutelythink there needs to be allergy,
dosed epinephrine on everysingle airplane.
(31:46):
And you know, one of the thingsthat I didn't even, when I did,
don't kill the birthday girl, Ididn't even fully appreciate
was.
The issues right now of evenwhen they say there is
epinephrine on a plane, a lot oftimes it's not dosed for
allergy.
It might be dosed for cardiac.
You need to be a medicalprofessional to handle, you
know, a syringe and needlecomfortably.
There's all of these things thatcould be so much better than
they are right now.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (32:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would add to that, notjust the accessibility on
planes, but everywhere.
I think there's so much room tohave stock epi in every school,
on every ambulance, every firstresponder vehicle.
Like there are so many placeswhere, where it's just such an
easy and inexpensive thing tohave on hand.
So I echo that for sure.
Sandra Beasley (32:25):
Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (32:26):
We moved away from the piece that you
were talking about withadjusting to this new life with
your husband and now his dietaryneeds and kind of that co
caregiving role that's sodifferent
Sandra Beasley (32:36):
you know, I'm still still working my way
through the material.
just to kind of give it a, afleshed out exemplar, he is
fortunately not on dialysisright now, but when he was on
dialysis and he was reallystruggling with his energy
levels, they were pretty bluntabout the fact that, you know,
eggs for, for breakfast on a daythat he di had dialysis was
(32:56):
gonna be an excellent resource.
Now, when we got married, we, wecreated a household that.
Didn't have eggs in it, didn'thave milk in it, didn't have
these things that, that I wasallergic to, just to make it
practical and easy.
Right?
So things had to come into myfridge that had not been in my
fridge before.
And, and we, and then inaccordance, there were things
(33:19):
that we had.
Previously loved to share like,uh, citrus, you know, like just
he's a Florida boy.
Uh, and just little things likethat that all of a sudden we
couldn't, tomatoes, we couldn't,you know, we, so, so in the same
way that I might have some areasof the world that I would
hesitate to travel to the use ofcheese is particularly, uh,
(33:40):
permeating, he now might.
Not choose to not be as excitedto go somewhere where tomatoes
are served left and right.
So you just, you know, you justkind of have to, um, you have to
grow with one another and youhave to adapt.
Same thing I can remember being.
Horrified when some of my foodallergic reactions had me in the
(34:00):
bathroom for, you know, an houror something like that, or just
uncut you scared oruncomfortable.
Now he's the one who might findhimself, uh, you know, dealing
with a kidney stone, forexample.
We, we've had to, to get to knoweach other's lives because of
these medicalized bodies in away that I think ultimately.
Many marriages do require, butuh, maybe a little faster and
(34:25):
under slightly more tensecircumstances
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (34:28):
Right, and, and, yeah.
More dangerous, more, moreserious in terms of the health
implications.
Sandra Beasley (34:33):
And it's also, I mean, um, just one of the things
that, when I started talkingabout food allergies, I thought
it was so important to talkabout was food allergies and
alcohol.
And that was because a lot oftimes the, the heaviness of
advice and, and guidelinesdropped away, right?
As, uh, people with foodallergies entered their young
adults.
Ears and could legally drink.
(34:54):
You know, and I, and I don'tthink a lot of parents really
had, were having frankconversations about how when you
put alcohol in the mix, it wouldget more complicated.
You can talk about that from theangle of the alcohol, literally
exacerbating a reaction.
You can talk about the danger ofcombining alcohol with
antihistamines.
You can talk about the factthat, um, bar and restaurant
(35:16):
menus are inconsistent withlabeling for food allergens in.
You know, in, in the alcoholsthemselves or in the garnishes,
the fact that the, the, the waysgarnishes are handled at the bar
doesn't necessarily guardagainst cross contact.
I mean, it's just, you know,it's a huge topic.
I thought it was, I thought thatwas a place where my voice could
really make a difference.
(35:38):
Uh, ironically, one of thethings about, um, what my
husband's dealing with now isthat he, he can't drink anymore.
And that's, that's kind of toobad because it was, there have
been so many times where I'vebeen in a space where, because
of my allergies, I reallycouldn't freely enjoy what
everyone else was eating.
But I did have the opportunityto, to be able to drink what,
(35:58):
uh, you know, alongside everyoneelse.
And now I'm trying to.
Figure out how to negotiatethat, um, with someone for whom
it's no longer medically anoption.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (36:08):
Right.
It's a good example of how overtime, people always ask about
coping skills, how do you copewith your allergies?
But, you know, yours haveprobably shifted over the years
and then in this instance,probably shifted again the most
quickly and drastically.
You know, we, I don't keep it inthe house.
It, it relieves my anxiety aboutexposure'cause it's not in the
house.
But now you need to have it.
And here's how I cope withsocial situations.
I have a drink if I can't eatand I don't feel left out.
(36:31):
And now your spouse, has, has tocome at it from the opposite
direction.
Yeah.
I just think these lives arecomplicated and, and again, I
just go back to.
Yes, do I?
Do I carry more levels ofanxiety or unusual levels of
anxiety or anxiety attached tothings that other people take
for granted?
(36:51):
Yes, I do.
But
Sandra Beasley (36:53):
I just want to say over and over again to
people who are either in mysituation or parents to people
in my situation who feel.
Fearful for your child.
I, I don't regret anything abouthow I navigate the world.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:07):
Like I don't, it, it,
Sandra Beasley (37:09):
these things, although they are hardships,
they are hardships that make usmore.
Complicated and rigorous andinteresting people.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:17):
And you know, I'm not gonna go so far as
just put a silver lining onwhat's happened for my husband.
That's not, that's definitelynot my place to do.
But, but
Sandra Beasley (37:25):
I do think you just have to embrace, this is
the life, you know, you occupythe life as fully as you can.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (37:31):
And you learn, and you learn.
And for me, like the bestguardian against anxiety is
always knowledge.
Absolutely.
Knowledge gives us control,right?
Knowledge gives us some, someaspect of an experience that we
can control.
I did get a couple of questionsfrom readers.
I've been trying to pepper them.
I know I touched on some ofthem, one of them asked on that,
(37:52):
the note that you just finishedon, what is a surprising thing
that you've learned aboutyourself through both allergies
and through your writing?
Sandra Beasley (38:00):
Hmm.
People like to often typifywriters and particularly poets
as introverts.
the of being a writer in theworld has absolutely, brought
out my extrovert tendencieshugely.
Like, and, and I say that onmultiple levels.
(38:21):
I say that based on the yearsthat I was writing.
About external subjects.
And so I was interviewing,musicians for example, and
really had to do things like goget, go, get sound bites and,
stop people and ask themquestions.
the many places where I'veappeared on a stage or in an
audience and been sharing frommy work and answering questions,
I actually, I deeply love beingaround people.
(38:44):
I'm charged up by people andthat is not something I think I
fully understood about myself,until I.
Embrace the identity of being awriter.
so it requires trust.
I would just add, you know,like, and, and I, it's, it's
ironic that I've chosen,something that requires as much.
Travel and as much being hostedby other people given my food.
(39:07):
Allergies, definitely have hadthe scenario of showing up to
events where someone had verycarefully catered something,
which I could not eat a thingdefinitely.
But I've also had the opposite.
I've had, you know, very, veryattentive and, and I don't take
it personally either way.
It's just funny.
Um, but, so I think discoveringmy extrovert qualities,
(39:27):
discovering, trying to be funny.
Discovering that you have toalways be open to the absurdity
in painful moments as a copingmechanism, but a little better
than that, a living mechanism,um, when you're dealing with,
with medical crises.
I mean, that's something that,that, you know, the fact that
(39:48):
husband and I already had abaseline of being able to, to
joke about fairly grim medicalcircumstances based on my food
allergies came in really handyin the ICU some days.
Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (40:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you mentioning thatabout humor and, and being able
to take that approach to itmakes me think of.
You using your poetry as, as, amethod of doing that.
Your poetry speaks for itself interms of, of using humor in the,
in the ways that you'redescribing.
I was wondering if you wouldmind reading, one of your poems
for us about allergies.
Sandra Beasley (40:21):
Yeah.
So I mean, one thing that I wason the front end of is, um, I
talk about don't kill thebirthday girl.
Watching a couple of differentmovies or TV shows where food
allergy was used as a punchline.
Right.
And I would love to say that isno longer the case, but man, I
keep getting new examples toadd.
I was, I was, binge watchingsmash, while my husband was on a
(40:43):
trip recently and, towards theend of season one.
And there's two seasons, this isnot a spoiler Totally.
But there's a character who'sintroduced and.
First time her peanut allergywas mentioned in a restaurant.
I was like, Ooh.
'cause there actually ended upbeing a pretty intelligent,
informed discussion about, wellif, if you're in this part of
India, the cuisine is morelikely to have it, but in this
(41:04):
part it's less.
And I thought, well that'sactually a very sensitive, like,
gosh, does someone on the staffthink about peanut allergy or,
but then it was mentioned inanother episode where she had to
run out for like safe, and I waslike, Ooh.
And I, I couldn't stop myself.
I had been enjoying the show inreal time, but I immediately
looked up the, the episodesummaries.
I was like, there's gonna be anallergic reaction and it's gonna
(41:25):
be either a humor point or asuspense point.
And sure enough, it became,becomes this whole circumstance
under which, you know, she hasto leave the show and it causes,
and someone is intentionally,quote unquote, poisoned her
shake with, with powder.
And, and then she's like, butactually, I.
Ate it intentionally.
'cause I didn't wanna be in theit.
The point was, the moment Istart, I saw enough of the
(41:48):
signals.
I was like, well, now I knowwhat's gonna happen.
Right?
squadcaster-h2g4_1_03-11-20 (41:50):
can see it.
Sandra Beasley (41:51):
anyone with food allergy, I think can recognize
that kind of, Ugh.
So this there, the poem that Iwanna read is one.
That's in dialogue with that.
'cause there have been timesover the years where someone has
come up to me and said, I thinkyou're gonna love, and it's a
book, or a movie or a TV show,and invariably it's like someone
being victimized through theirfood allergy.
(42:12):
It's like, what made you thinkthat?
I would be so excited to seethat example.
So, so yeah, this poem is calledby Chocolate.
Uh, there's a tradition in theliterary world where we, we
write little.
endorsements for each other'sbooks.
They're called blurbs.
This may or may not be based onan actual request for a blurb
(42:33):
that I received, Death byChocolate.
A man wants my take on his novelwhere a wife dies with a peanut
in her mouth after we've met herhusband in the act with his
secretary in the passenger seatof a late life convertible.
(42:54):
A man wants my take on his novelwhere the husband's marital
issues are solved by heranaphylactic collapse after he
serves her takeout, spiked witha cashew, and for another 300
pages, he wonders.
Was it an accident or did Iknow?
(43:17):
Somewhere out there, a man iswriting a novel about a chef
with a taste for adding shrimppaste to curry and his
unsuspecting shellfish allergicwife, and I'll be asked for my
take on it.
I have been offered dozens oftakes on my own death.
Suggestions Abound.
(43:37):
Death by ice cream, death bycake, death by cucumber, though
that would take a while per se.
Perhaps gazpacho as a shortcut.
Death by mango.
Death by Spanish omelet, deathby dairy, an abstraction sexy to
someone who has never side eyedcream, brought out sloping
(44:00):
toward the coffee, who has neverfelt histamine's palm at her
throat, who says cheese makeslife worth living.
These wives, I get you women whodid not grow up aspiring to be a
plot device.
We almost die a lot or we die alot almost.
(44:25):
We're over it.
Our mouths have more to say.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (44:33):
thank you so much for sharing that.
Showing us how much more you'vebecome than a plot device,
right?
Or, or just, just just this girlconfined to a memoir about her
food allergies.
And for those who are listening,we mentioned your, uh, memoir,
but not your poetry books, whichare made to explode.
Theories of falling.
I was the jukebox and count thewaves.
(44:55):
Those are probably out ofchronological order of
publication, but I have'em in apot here on my desk.
Sandra Beasley (45:00):
Yeah, it's actually great the way you
mentioned them because theoriesof falling, my first book, uh,
really has the food allergypoems that relate to a, a kind
of childhood and young adultpersona.
So a more, a more straight hand,uh, recollecting from memory.
The, the food allergy poems itmade to explode, I think are
really taking a step, um,towards looking at it through.
(45:20):
The lens of, of disability, ofdisability rights, you know, and
thinking about, uh, the ways inwhich the problem is not always
necessarily the food allergy,but the societal attitudes
around the food allergy.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (45:33):
Well, thank you so much for bringing
so much light to that andexplaining it with so much more
depth than we usually get tohear.
I, you've been, you couldn'thave been kinder in this whole
process, and I love hearing yourtake and, and your perspective
on things and how vulnerable youshare your, your experiences
with the world through yourwriting.
I.
Sandra Beasley (45:50):
Well, thank you for this podcast.
I just think that this, theseare conversations that people
want to be having, need to behaving, and they're, they're,
it's not the same conversationover and over.
There's so many nuances andlayers to.
what people need to share.
So I really appreciate whatyou're doing.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (46:06):
Well, thank you.
I would love to have you backwhen your next book is ready for
people to read.
Will you keep me posted and I'llWill, I'll follow you along.
Tell us where we can find you,on social media.
Where's the best place to buyyour book?
Sandra Beasley (46:16):
Yeah, we'll always support your local
bookstore.
So like in the DC area thatincludes a few different, we've
we're great for bookstores, butpolitics and prose, I love.
Um, yeah, my books are, arefairly widely available and uh,
I am.
All over the social mediaplatforms, although like many,
uh, I'm, I don't always post asregularly as I have in the past,
(46:39):
but just look for me at SandraBeasley or at Sandra Beasley.
Author, author Sandra Beasley.
And, uh, I'm always, alwayshappy to engage with people
one-on-one on social media orreally even just by email.
I'm, I'm findable.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (46:53):
Very easy for me to find and very
responsive.
So thank you so much for, forbeing so receptive.
Sandra Beasley (46:58):
Thank you.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse (47:01):
Here are your three action steps to
follow up on today'sconversation.
Number one, check out SandraBeasley on social media at
Sandra Beasley.
She's very easy to find and veryresponsive, as she said in the
episode.
Number two, read her memoir orher poetry.
They're easy to find online.
I prefer to use bookshop.org tosupport independent bookstores,
(47:23):
and you'll find a link to thatin the notes as well as a link
to the essay we discussed fromSandra's upcoming book.
The essay is also very easy tofind if you search for, To Catch
a Sunset on the American ScholarNumber three, follow Sandra's
beautiful lead and do somenarrative therapy.
Writing can be so healing andpowerful for processing
(47:43):
difficult experiences andintegrating them into our sense
of self.
In psychology, we call thisnarrative therapy, and it is an
evidence-based approach tohealing trauma.
A simple practice is to write aletter to your younger self.
Reflecting on a past experience,your thoughts and feelings at
the time, and how it looks andfeels to you from your current
vantage point.
(48:04):
If you're a young personlistening or want to encourage a
young person in your life to trythis, an alternative is to flip
this and to imagine your olderself looking back on the
experience now, once you are anolder, wiser, more mature and
experienced person, and what youimagine you'd say about it years
down the road.
Once you're done, you can saveit in a journal.
(48:25):
You can burn it, you can rip itup there are no rules, but I
hope you'll give it a try.
the content of this podcast isfor informational and
educational purposes only, andis not a substitute for
professional medical or mentalhealth advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.
If you have any questions aboutyour own medical experience or
mental health needs, pleaseconsult a professional.
(48:46):
I'm Dr.
Amanda White house.
Thanks for joining me.
And until we chat again,remember don't feed the fear.
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