In this episode, I revisit one of the most talked-about topics from Season 2, Episode 9: Did You Really Just Say That?
We’ll reflect on some of the surprising, hurtful, or well-meaning-but-wrong things people say to grieving parents. I also share a few new comments I’ve heard recently from others in my grief support groups. If you've ever been on the receiving end of words that missed the mark—or if you want to better support someone in grief—this episode is for you.
Help keep the Don’t Forget To Breathe podcast going. Become a supporter today and be part of the movement to bring light, connection, and hope to those living with loss. Follow this link to become a Supporter:
Episode Transcript
Welcome to Don't Forget to Breathe.
I'm your host, Bruce Barker.
So as I mentioned in the seasonthree preview, I'm going to be
revisiting some of those morepowerful episodes from season
two.
Going to pull some excerptsout.
We'll dive into those.
But again, it's just going tobe kind of that fireside chat
just between you and I.
(00:56):
Tonight, this is from theepisode entitled, Did You Really
Just Say That?
This is about all of thosecomments, you know, that have
been have been made to me andI'm sure have been made to you
that um kind of make us shakeour heads and maybe even have
(01:16):
some internal explosions and andsome gasps of disbelief of did
you really just say that to me?
There's been some new ones thathave come along since um this
episode aired.
I've heard several differentones from the different groups
that that I facilitate and andsome of what other parents have
(01:39):
been have been hearing and haveand have been subjected to.
So we'll dive into those afterwe come back.
So let's jump into thatconversation in season two.
Did you really just say that?
Because we're just gonna getreally raw with this, because
it's it can be a pretty rawsubject or raw reaction to if we
(02:05):
if we you know we say, okay,did you really just say that?
And we've done it too.
I know I have, have said, youknow, when I look back and go,
oh my God, why what what did whydid I say that?
And you know, trying to thinkof the right thing to say.
So as we were coming into thisepisode, I had I had seen um
(02:34):
several posts on social mediafrom friends of mine whose
children have died, and and itseems like some of them are in
the first year and the secondyear and and at various phases,
and they're posting, I can'tbelieve someone just said this,
(02:55):
or whatever, and they're andthey're offended and hurt and
and just as I was.
And and so as I I reached outto them um to ask if I could
share some of that tonight, Iknow what my reaction was when I
read it initially.
(03:15):
I I believe that as I point outsome of this stuff, everybody's
language filter is gonnaprobably go away.
I mean, I you know, I've had uhand and I and I think that
those, you know, those of youlistening, you've probably you
you've probably heard most ofwhat we're we're gonna say
(03:38):
tonight.
And some of it is, you know,it's it's almost like a classic
line, right?
Well, they're in a betterplace.
Well, no, they're not with me.
Like, or I don't, they're notwith me.
There is no comfort in sayingthat, or you know, she's not in
(03:58):
pain any longer.
I'm in I'm in pretty much agony24-7.
So that's not a comfortingthought.
And then some of these, and andthat's only I mean, that's only
a couple, because it, you know,the whole over it thing comes
up.
Oh my god.
Well, you know, as one of myfriends had uh posted on social
(04:21):
media and I and I askedpermission to repeat some of
this without obviously sayingtheir name, but one where she
was just I mean, she was justdevastated.
Her son died less than a yearago.
In fact, it's I I I think it'slike nine months maybe.
(04:44):
And she's seeing her doctor andtrying to balance out because
she needs antidepressants and istrying to balance that out.
And his quote as she was, youknow, talking about it and just
saying, and said he just it wasreal just hard and sarcastic,
(05:06):
like, you know, well, I'm sorryabout your loss, but we've got
another chance to get thisright, talking about the
medicine.
And it's like, really?
I mean, and then he started toquestion her son, like, how was
his, you know, did he have badblood pressure and cholesterol?
Because it was a it was acondition that something like
(05:29):
that might lead to, but but toquestion that, like, what was
the point, you know, of it wasalmost one of those, didn't you
catch this kind of a thing?
So I think I talked about inseason in season one about not
going down that road of what if?
(05:52):
You know, which we do, and it'sand it's really easy to do is
you question because you'reyou're the parent, you're
supposed to protect, looking atyourself as well, what did I
miss?
What did I not do?
You know, and that's ones thatthat you put on yourself and and
that you and that we workthrough in the grieving process,
(06:14):
but then to have somebody elsethrow that at you.
I I read a lot of her posts andwe we private message, and I
know that pain that she's goingthrough, and and you know, and
and it's it's really it'sobviously devastating and really
hard for her, every just as weknow, I mean, every single day.
(06:38):
And then, and then here'sanother thing that to mention
along that same line.
So her son was married, right?
And so now, and we and wehaven't you know really covered
this as a you know as a topic, Iguess, but now her
(06:58):
daughter-in-law, who is young,because he was young, you know,
is now lost her love, lost thelove of her life, and has found
herself suddenly, you know,suddenly a widow at a young age.
So my friend shared with methat just this past just last
(07:21):
week that someone told herdaughter-in-law that they had a
man for her to meet.
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
Like, it's been nine months,and as she pointed out, like the
(07:41):
headstone isn't even there yet,and the dirt hasn't even
settled, and someone's trying toset her up with someone, like
now, I don't I and and shedidn't point out who it was that
did that, and so for my friend,not only is she grieving the
loss of her son, but she's she'salso grieving for her
(08:05):
daughter-in-law, a member of herfamily, the pain and the grief
and the hurt she's feeling, youknow, she's that affects her as
well.
And and obviously she wasoffended and and cried and said
no.
And I mean, I you know, soanother one of my friends who I
(08:27):
just love dearly, in fact, shewas there.
We were working in the in thesame building, and and I I know
I mentioned her in season one,but um, she was there when I
drove back to um to my shopafter getting the phone call
(08:51):
that Kristen had died.
She knew Kristen, and she's theone that jumped in, and while
I'm in just a complete fogmaking the travel arrangements,
doing all of this stuff for me.
And her son died a little overa year ago.
So she shared with me today,and the and the one of the
(09:14):
things that that she sayshappens often, right, is whether
it's a text or they're atdinner or a phone call, and the
question is, well, how are you?
Right.
And and I know when somebody'sasked me that question,
depending, and most of thetimes, when and just like she
(09:38):
would typically answer is no,we're pretty good, thanks.
Because do you really want toknow how I am?
Because if you got an hour,I'll let you know.
But that's really not, but theresponse she's getting is what
is has been really hard, wherethey've said, Well, it's you
know, it's good to see thatyou're moving on.
(09:59):
And I admire your strengthpushing through and going
forward.
And in her mind, uh it's shetranslates it as, you know,
well, good to see you haven'tforgotten your dead son already.
I mean, you know, it's it'sit's like, and you will never
move on.
There is no getting over it.
Um, you know, and this is theone where it's like, yeah,
(10:24):
really, are you serious?
Like, there's, and again,they're trying to think of the
right thing to say instead ofrealizing there is no right
thing to say.
And that's kind of the purposeof this of this podcast, is one
is all of us who haveexperienced this, we're just
kind of sitting around havingthis conversation, just like you
(10:46):
would if we all got togetherand we're hanging out and we're
having a beer or a glass ofwine, going, Well, you think
that's screwed up.
So then somebody told me thatthe other part of this is
hopefully there are thoselistening to the podcast who
have not lost a child, but arewalking the path with someone or
(11:10):
know someone who has, or maybethat it just happened and they
came across this podcast andwent, All right, I need some
pointers.
I need to know because I don'tknow what to do.
Well, we're telling you, thereis nothing you can say that's
going to fix anything or reallyhelp anything, other than just
(11:31):
making it known that you'rethere.
That's it.
You know, there's and there'sthere's other things that my
friend brought up that thatresonate in in different ways.
One was her son was their onlychild, and and so then somebody
(11:51):
comes up and says, HappyMother's Day.
You know, she's like, uh yeah,no, I'm not a mom.
Or, you know, or then asking,Do you have any other children?
Again, it might be like, no,we're not gonna get into this
right now.
And I think that I respect thatif it if you're not in a place
(12:12):
that you want to do that, you'resimply I'm not in a place right
this minute to have thisconversation with you in this
setting.
So here's the deal.
Because I I do that, and reallyI just kind of trust my gut.
She's been asked, Do you haveany kids?
And then other things aresaying, like, hey, can I show
(12:34):
you pictures of my kids?
Like, I don't really care.
Or as she said, Yeah, let mesee.
Oh, they're precious, whichshe's saying, I'm just
performing and I'm faking.
And we've I've done it, yeah,to spare maybe that person or
the conversation, or orsometimes, why do I want to
(12:55):
engage in this?
So there's multiple reasonsthat you can just kind of fake
it and walk through it.
So there was a lot happening atthat particular time a few
years ago with my friends, andthey were very early in their
journeys, and the things thatpeople were saying to them were
um were very impactful, as I'msure they are when people say
(13:22):
that to you.
Some of the things that I'verun across since then and and in
this in these groups, as I'vehad more exposure to, you know,
more direct exposure todifferent people and where they
are in their journeys and theirstories.
Some of those that I've heard,especially for those that I know
(13:44):
that have had miscarriages ortheir babies were nine days old,
a week old, less than a yearold, and comments that they've
heard from people is well, youknow, at least you guys are
young and you can try again.
(14:04):
That um I'll just let that sitwith you because I I I know
you've you've had a reaction tothat, and and maybe if if your
story is similar, you've had thesame thing said to you.
There's a uh there's more thathave come along.
There's actually uh there's ashow on Apple TV right now, it's
(14:30):
called Stick.
Without, you know, withoutthrowing out um a spoiler, there
is a a character in that showwho has lost a child, and one of
the episodes uh someone said tothis person who had had no
idea, well, if you had kids, youwould understand.
(14:53):
I know I had a reaction when Iheard that and saying something
to the screen, not that that washelpful.
And then obviously thecharacters did as well.
So I think you know, that'sanother one of those that sure
someone they had no idea, butit's you know, it's minding
(15:15):
those words and just trying toto just be nice, because we we
just don't know.
We just don't know wheresomeone is in their life, what
they've experienced, where theyare on their journeys, you know.
I took out of that let's justbe kind.
(15:37):
I mean, let's face it.
Friends, family, evenacquaintances, they're going to
keep saying things to us thathurt, things that cut, that feel
uh disconnected or evenuncaring.
And when you're a grievingparent, those words can sting in
ways most people will neverunderstand.
(16:00):
But here's the truth it'susually not because they don't
care.
In fact, it's just theopposite.
They do care, but they justdon't understand.
They haven't been through whatwe've been through.
They haven't been taught whatto say or or even how to be
truly present with someone indeep grief.
(16:21):
They want to help, but in mostcases, they don't know how.
Um, an example is um a fewmonths after Kristen died, I was
in the greeting cards sectionum at a Target looking for a
birthday card, and I noticed umthis woman standing near the
sympathy cards, picking them upone by one, reading them,
(16:43):
putting them back.
She looked confused.
Um, I mean lost, really.
I walked over and I asked, um,it looks like you're having
trouble finding the right card.
Um, can I ask what kind of lossit was?
So she told me her friend hadjust had a miscarriage and she
wanted to get something for herand her husband, but nothing
(17:05):
seemed to say the right thing.
And I told her, that's becausenone of them do.
None of these cards will comeclose to saying the right thing
or offering any real comfort.
So she looked at me and shesaid, Well then what do I do?
So I shared with her that mydaughter had died just a few
months earlier, and that if Icould offer any advice, it would
(17:28):
be this.
Just get a blank card andsimply write, I know there are
no words I can say right nowthat will help.
That I am here for you.
Whenever you need me, I willnot walk away.
I will walk with you as much asyou will allow.
I said, That's it.
(17:50):
Just presence, just love.
Because conversations or eventhe avoidance of conversations
about grief, especially thedeath of a child, make most
people really uncomfortable.
Um, these aren't everydaynormal chats, and because of
that, many people they'll justshut down or they'll say
(18:12):
something that really misses themark.
Um and and we've talked aboutsome of those things that people
will say.
Um as I've said many timesbefore, one of my biggest hopes
for this podcast is to normalizethe conversation around grief.
I mean, we live in a worldwhere loss happens every day.
(18:34):
And those of us who've livedit, especially those who've
experienced the unthinkable, theout-of-order loss of a child,
we need more than cliches.
We need comfort.
We need presence, we needunderstanding.
We need hope.
(18:55):
And then ultimately we needhealing.
So if you're listening andyou're grieving, I hope this
reminds you that you are notalone.
And if you're someone walkingbeside a grieving friend, know
this.
You don't need perfect words,you just need to show up.
(19:16):
We're just gonna wrap that uptonight, and there'll be more of
these where we'll revisit someof the season two podcasts and
take some of those excerpts outand talk about those a little
bit.
Uh, we have some parents thatare gonna be sharing their
stories.
I'm just still going throughsome editing on that.
Uh, that will be coming up soonas well.
(19:36):
So until next time.
Thanks for joining.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.