September 21, 2025 • 46 mins
My guest, Sheila Johnson Wilson, a writer, musician, and professional coordinator, has endured the loss of more than 20 loved ones, including 17 in just five years. Through deep personal work, she’s found healing and now shares her story to inspire others with courage to heal, support one another, and dream again.
Contact information for Sheila and William Wood are:
ohohsheilaonline@gmail.com
William Wood: william.wood@northernutahhypnosis.com
Help keep the Don’t Forget To Breathe podcast going. Become a supporter today and be part of the movement to bring light, connection, and hope to those living with loss. Follow this link to become a Supporter:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bruce (00:34):
Welcome to Don't Forget to Breathe.
I'm your host, Bruce Barker.
My guest today is SheilaJohnson Wilson, a writer,
musician, and professionalcoordinator who has endured the
heartbreaking loss of more than20 loved ones, including 17
within just a five-year period.
Grief has become a constantcompanion she never asked for,
(00:57):
but through deep personal work,Sheila has found healing and now
shares her story to inspireothers with courage to heal,
support one another, and dreamagain.
Sheila is currently writing abook centered on grief therapy,
and I'm honored she agreed tojoin me on the podcast to open
her heart and her story.
(01:18):
Let's step into theconversation.
Alright, Sheila, so you'rewriting a book.
Yes.
The working title, it's GriefTherapy, Heartbreak is Real and
Healing Is Possible.
Did I get that right?
Yes.
What inspired you or promptedyou or drove you, directed you
(01:40):
to write the book?
Sheila (01:42):
What drove me to write the book was a business coach.
I was creating music,producing, on my way to
finishing a project, but I'vehad losses.
And when I was telling mybusiness coach my story, my
experience of the 17 loved onesthat I lost back to back within
(02:04):
five years that then continuedin different time frames, which
then included my mother in 2016,and then my baby shortly after
my mom in 2016, and then one ofmy close uncles later in 2016.
(02:26):
And then fast forward to 2020,the year that we all, or most of
us, I should say, experiencedCOVID, one of my uncles
committed suicide.
And that was one of my mom'sbrothers.
And so once I told my businesscoach that, she said, Oh,
Sheila, you need to tell yourstory.
Give your emotions a voice.
(02:48):
And she gave me the courage todo it because she wrote her book
about her story of survivingbreast cancer.
And so that's the beginning ofme writing my book and having
the courage to do it.
And to say that I started it isone thing.
To finish it is another thing.
(03:08):
And I didn't know that when Istarted, I would go through all
these emotions to the pointwhere I needed therapy again.
And again.
Bruce (03:16):
Yep.
Been there.
Sheila (03:17):
And so that helped to heal a lot more.
And now I'm at the point whereI'm ready to finish it and be a
blessing, is the way I like tosee it, to those who need it,
need to hear my story.
Bruce (03:32):
That absolutely resonates with me.
And listeners who have followedthis podcast from the beginning
know about that three-yearbreak that I took.
And that's part of why I tookthat break.
There were things in doing thepodcast and doing the work that
uh really stirred up a lot ofemotions and holding up that
(03:53):
mirror and going, okay, yougotta do some more work.
And because I want to bepresent in doing this podcast
and not fake it.
So I know I need to be in agood place.
And that was taking that break,getting into some more therapy,
doing a lot more work, to thenbe, as you say, ready for the
(04:14):
next step.
And that was me being ready torelaunch the podcast.
So that absolutely resonateswith me, and I think it will for
other listeners, and and alsogive them the the okay.
You're not gonna necessarily dotherapy and you're done.
You might need to revisit asmore and more things come up and
(04:36):
more and more things arediscovered.
Sheila (04:38):
Exactly.
Yes, exactly.
And I will say that finding theright therapist was an
interesting journey or part ofthe journey, I should say.
There's one thing to say, I'mgoing to my therapy session.
It's another thing to say, I'mgoing to a grief therapist.
Uh, there are therapists nowthat make sure they have that
(05:01):
listed in their credentials,that they do focus on grief.
Those who don't may be able tohelp, but not so much.
That's my experience because Idid have therapists who who did
not have grief included in theircredentials.
Right.
That was one thing I do, I didwant to mention.
Bruce (05:16):
Yeah.
No, I've I've heard that fromother people, people that I work
with in in group sessions, thesame thing where it's finding
the connection.
So it's almost like in these umgrief groups that I facilitate,
the biggest thing that I hearfrom everyone that's in there is
I'm just with a group of peoplethat get it.
(05:37):
And I think, as you mentioned,finding that therapist that you
one you have that you need toconnect with to be your most
vulnerable in an undescribablefor parents, you know, we this
is our worst, worst possiblething that could happen.
And to be safe in doing that isto be with a therapist that
gets it.
That's really it.
And just gets you.
(05:59):
There can be a lot of training,there can be a lot of a lot of
that that's gone on, and to be alicensed therapist, which is um
absolutely wonderful, and Iencourage anyone to seek a
licensed therapist.
As I say in the in the podcast,I'm not a licensed therapist,
just a dad.
You're not a licensedtherapist, right?
Sheila (06:19):
I'm not, I was looking forward to saying that too, just
to be clear.
I'm not a licensed therapisteither.
Bruce (06:23):
We're just giving our experiences and where where
things have taken us and whatwe've learned in the grief
journey and the healing journey.
Sheila (06:34):
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Bruce (06:35):
Yeah.
Sheila (06:35):
Yeah.
I want to also mention that thetherapist that was really
instrumental in my healing aftermy uncle committed suicide.
Now that, mind you, is 2020.
Okay, so 2016, my mom, my baby,my uncle, 2020, my uncle, that
really made it rougher for me.
(06:57):
The therapist who helped me themost at that time is considered
a hypnotherapist.
Now I've heard of it.
I've heard of hypnosis.
I've been in the presence ofartists that I worked with who
experienced it and spoke highlyof it.
I kept it in the back of myhead.
When I met the hypnotherapist,it was in a business conference
(07:21):
situation.
So it wasn't about therapy.
But when we talked personallyabout what I was trying to
accomplish in business, that'swhen I learned more about how he
could potentially help me withthe therapy part.
So yes, William Wood,hypnotherapist.
We can leave his informationlater where you give information
to your listeners.
But what he did was took methrough a journey of identifying
(07:46):
where I was hurt, how I wasfeeling that particular day.
And then he, as theprofessional and expert in this
area, took me through a seriesof exercises, a combination of
closing my eyes and him sayingthings to me and me responding
with my eyes closed to what hewas doing.
Mind you, this was through Zoombecause it was during the time
(08:08):
of COVID.
And he did a series ofexercises that made me feel
better.
But then he also recommended afew books for me to read.
One was more aboutunderstanding my feelings and
having the courage to aim tofeel a little bit better every
(08:28):
single day.
And then he he also introducedme to tapping, tapping
exercises.
Have you heard of that?
Bruce (08:34):
Like EMDR?
Sheila (08:35):
Yes.
And little did I know thatwould be what my nervous system
specifically needed.
So I've heard reviews, uh, I'veI've heard testimonies.
There are people who sharedthat they were able to live life
a little bit better because ofhow the tapping exercise helped
(08:57):
them heal.
So I wanted to just make sure Igot that out really.
Tapping exercise beyond thehypnotherapy was where I landed
as what I need to practice everysingle day, if not every single
week.
Bruce (09:11):
Yeah, I did I did EMDR uh with someone that and that is
what they specialized in.
And again, I at the time I'mgoing in skeptical, but once I
allowed myself to let go andthen starting with all of it,
and then I felt a physicalchange and you know, and then
(09:33):
after the first session, and sheshe's like, So what do you
think?
I'm like, Okay, all right,yeah, I get it.
Well and then would goobviously go back for more.
And it's just to someone whohasn't done it, it would seem
like really you're just gonnayou're gonna tap.
But actually, but doing it.
(09:53):
And so there's so many thingsobviously that I don't
understand about how everythingworks body, mind, soul, all of
it.
I I I don't, but as part ofthat healing journey, I you're
willing I'm willing to tryanything.
Once I was ready.
Right.
Again, for me, it was yearsbefore I was really ready to do
(10:17):
the work.
Once I started that, then yes,I'm willing to try.
Try whatever's ever's gonnahelp.
And knowing I'm feeling badmaybe during a session, after a
session, because we're goingplaces that I didn't want to go,
right, and my conscious, butactually getting there and doing
(10:38):
the work and doing the healing,um, the things that hurt.
Right.
And the books, so the otherbooks that you had read, you had
all these books, but youdecided you wanted to write your
own.
Sheila (10:50):
Yes.
Bruce (10:51):
Why is that?
Sheila (10:51):
I'm glad you asked.
Why?
The books that I read weresuggested out of a good place.
So I went into reading thebooks open, but I was hurting
when I was reading the books,and it felt like something was
(11:12):
missing from what I was reading.
Yes, I needed to know thephases of grief.
Yes, I needed to know theclinical part of what that
process is like to grieve andidentify I'm angry, or identify
I'm guilty, or I identify I'mjust really sad right now, or I
(11:35):
just want to be by myself.
But there were experiences Istarted to have that no one
talked about.
And one of those is where I sawa gentleman walking down the
street.
I was in my apartment lookingout the window, and the
gentleman looked just like mydad.
My dad had passed away morethan four years before that.
(11:57):
So intellectually, in my mind,I knew that wasn't my dad.
Spiritually, though, or or justthis sensation I had in my body
made me feel like that was mydad, almost as if it were I was
in a movie and that was an angeland it was my dad.
That's what that moment waslike.
And I was like, hold on, whatdo I do with this?
Because I'm feeling like cryingmy eyes out right now.
(12:19):
I really don't know what thisis.
And so none of the books that Iread touched on that.
And my book will touch on thatbecause I've experienced it more
than once.
And I know other people nowpersonally who have experienced
it as well.
And I'm so happy to know that,you know, you because you and I
had a brief conversation aboutit, that's not foreign to you
(12:39):
either.
No, and so if it's not foreignto us, it's not foreign to other
people who are just not writingabout it yet, or I haven't read
their book yet, or peoplehaven't talked about it yet.
Either way, it's like, let'stalk about it, let's let's touch
that part in our soul thatcould heal a little bit more
because we relate to that.
(13:00):
And and then so when it happensagain to me, I'm not feeling so
lost or detached from the humanbody, if that makes sense.
Bruce (13:10):
Yeah.
So you can be more in themoment and and exactly and aware
and accept and celebrate, Iguess, if you will.
And and I say that only from mypersonal experience that I
shared.
That I mean, yes, I've haddreams where Kristen has is
there, she's still 20, but it'spresent time.
(13:33):
But we're having conversationsabout present time, like things
that are going on.
And and I, you know, again,everybody's got their own
beliefs and their own thoughts.
And I just take them as aslittle presents, as little
visits.
And so again, it could bepsychoanalyzing it and say, oh
no, you're just imaginingthings.
I don't really care.
It works for me.
Right.
Right.
(13:54):
And I think it, I think thosekind of moments work for other
parents.
But one in particular I knowthat I shared with you was being
at the airport, you know, overwork.
And I happened to be comingback in and was on the train,
um, get off the train in theterminal and go up these really
long escalators to get up.
And I could see toward the topsomeone in the there's two
(14:16):
escalators side by side, someonein the escalator just to the
left of me that looked just likeKristen from behind.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Right.
Bruce (14:22):
Same little deal.
And as, I mean, yes, there wasan emotional moment.
There was it was that littlebit of a flutter.
Right.
Right.
And then I see her just at thetop.
She reached with her finger andkind of pulled hair behind her
ears the same way Kristen woulddo as she's at the top of the
escalator and steps and turns tothe right, but she looks
(14:43):
directly at me, and I'm halfwaydown the escalator on the other
side, looks directly at me andwalks away.
I mean, turned and lookeddirectly at me and then walked
away, and of course, gone by thetime I could get to the top of
the escalator.
So it's moments that's that'swhy I I um I related to what you
were saying.
It was like, okay, does theintellectual say no?
(15:06):
It wasn't Christian?
Does the spirit side go?
Could it have been a little, Idon't know, can't explain it.
I don't need to explain it.
I don't feel the need to for meto go, let me break this down.
I just accepted it because I'dhad and then and just it was
emotional, but just smiled.
(15:26):
But in a pop, and but andagain, that's part of I think
where I am in the healingprocess and where I am where I
can say I am healed from this,but carrying all the scars
doesn't mean I'm not healed, itjust means there's scars.
The same with any physicalwound on our on our bodies.
You can heal from a surgery,from an accident, from a cut,
(15:51):
from a break, and there's scars,and that's what it is with me.
So I was able to accept it andthen smile and go, okay, that
was cool.
Thanks.
Right.
And just accept that moment.
So you're right.
I think we can't be the onlytwo.
Sheila (16:07):
No, we can't be.
And I want to say the fact thatyou were able to say, oh, that
was cool, is an indication thatyou are definitely healed,
right?
I couldn't say that was cool.
Yeah.
I couldn't.
And then when it happened againwhen I saw someone that looked
like my uncle, one of my unclesthat passed away after my dad,
it happened again when I sawsomeone who looked like my
(16:27):
godmother.
After this is all about afterthey passed away, when I saw
someone who looked like theperson I love deeply who passed
away.
So let's say 2003, my dadpassed away.
Within five years, 17 peoplepassed away, literally back to
back.
So I could not ever withinthose five years say, oh, that
(16:47):
was cool.
And that was the challenge.
That was the challenge for me.
So fast forward to 2020, I'mwriting all this music or
composing, producing all thismusic.
And my business coach says,okay, now you you need to tell
your story.
It's at that point when I stilldidn't know I could say cool,
but I was able to feel like thishas happened enough.
(17:10):
Something is about this, and Iwant to feel good about it.
I want to feel good about it.
So I heard the late and greatNatalie Cole share on TV that
her and her siblings, and Ibelieve her mother at the time,
who was still alive at the time,share how they were in a store,
(17:31):
heard her dad, Nat King Cole'sChristmas song, one of the
songs.
Yeah.
And how that at that momentthey saw each other, they were
different racks, but still insight of each other, and looked
at each other and nodded, yeah,that's him.
I was like, that's what I want.
That's what I feel like I need.
I need someone to be on thesame page with me about this
(17:51):
moment where I'm either hearingsomething that is exactly the
person, or I'm seeing someonewho looks exactly like the
person I just lost.
Right.
And it was after I saw thatinterview that I was like, I
need that.
I need something like that.
And I believe you're probablyonly the second person,
literally, that we where I wasable to feel like I just
(18:17):
connected with someone who knowsexactly what I'm talking about.
And um more courageous, youknow, to to finish the process
of writing the book because itstill is painful.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Oh, yeah.
Sheila (18:32):
It still is painful.
But I want to say somethingthat you mentioned about scars.
There's something in thescriptures, and I'll I'll have
it in my book that talks abouthow when we have gone through
pain and suffering, there'sstill something for us to be
(18:53):
able to give.
And that's the part of helpingother people who are going
through the same pain andsufferings.
We we can be better when wehelp other people going through
the same pain and sufferings.
That part is for me where thescar is not ugly.
It's not, you know, it's not abad thing.
(19:13):
The scar can be used forsomething better or good for
someone else, you know, to helpsomeone else.
That's the best way I can putit right now.
But that's something that I'mdefinitely sharing, you know, in
my book as well.
When I when I complete it, Ilook forward to to hearing how
many people can relate to that.
Bruce (19:31):
The thing with scars, I mean, I know that I guess as a
kid or just growing up orwhatever, you you hear about
scars or you see scars initiallyand it's scary.
Right.
And then, all right, so we'llfast forward to a scene from
Jaws where they're comparingtheir scars and their battle
stories and laughing, and andbecause they they tell a story.
(19:55):
And then I think to transitionto the scars that we feel and
the scars that I have is yes, Ican tell the story.
I can tell the story of theunimaginable loss, and I can
tell the story of terribly hardwork and pain in the healing
process.
And then to get to the scars,and well, you might look at them
(20:21):
and go, they're not, that's nota beautiful thing.
Says who.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Right.
Bruce (20:27):
Right?
It shows that you've beenthrough something, but you're on
the other side.
You've you've healed.
It's not, again, that same,it's not that old phrase, oh,
I'm over it.
No, it's not that.
It's you have gone through it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right.
Bruce (20:40):
Right?
You didn't go over it.
You're through it and you arehealed, but the scars are there.
There's those reminders.
You don't forget.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right.
Bruce (20:49):
You don't forget what they look like, you don't forget
what they sound like.
You know, all of those thingsthat I know I feared, and other
people that I've talked to thatfeared, I'm afraid I'm gonna
forget how they sounded or whatthat parents have said, and and
all I can say is no, you neverwill.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right.
Bruce (21:04):
And I can hear her voice pop in my head right now as a uh
four-year-old, three-year,four-year-old, young adult.
Whatever, it's there, it's notgonna go away.
But that's part of the healing.
But it is the it's the scary inbetween.
Right.
It's sort of the way I look atit, what's between the shadow
(21:24):
and the light, like what's inthat space.
And that's that's where we are.
Right.
And and we learn, and it hurts.
The same as if you've had asurgery or or whatever it is.
When it's healing, it's soreand it hurts.
The worse the surgery, or theworse, whatever, the harder and
(21:45):
the more pain that you feel.
And I example, and I and I mayhave referred to this um in a
previous podcast.
I'm not sure, but this thispottery piece that I made to
break that gave a littledepiction of of my life,
Kristen's life, because I didall these phases on her
(22:06):
birthdays, um, to be veryintentional about it.
And I know when you put it backtogether with Kinzuki, and you
have to hold the pieces tillthey set.
And I remember holding thefirst two pieces, and I could
feel a pinch in my palm anddidn't think that much about it.
I figured, oh, it's a sharp,there's a sharp edge.
And then when it was set enoughto pull it apart, and then I
look, and then my inside of mypalm is just bleeding because it
(22:28):
had pushed, it was sharp enoughthat it cut and it was cutting,
but I was still holding it eventhough there was pain.
And then I looked at it, andagain, I'm at the stage now
where I can laugh and go, okay,all right, I get it.
Yeah.
That there's pain and it's slowwhen you're putting the pieces
back one by one.
And every parent that stepsinto that vulnerability and has
(22:54):
the courage to heal and to dothe work.
Like I commend everyone forthat and encourage everyone for
that.
It's easy to just um as somesay that they feel they're
stuck.
That's easy.
It's easy not to do something.
It's really hard to do thisbecause you gotta get in it.
Right.
So the same as like writing thebook, but you're back in it,
(23:15):
right?
Everything that you're writing,and it's painful.
Sheila (23:20):
Yes.
And I like the way you said it.
It's slow healing.
But it is healing.
And there's a couple of thingsyou just mentioned.
I wanted to uh bring up loss ofbaby, I guess, right now,
because everyone's situation isdefinitely different.
And I I'm I commend you forsaying, you know, everyone has
(23:42):
their way of doing it, andcommend everyone who is willing
and courageous to do the work.
My situation was unexpected,and it was during the time my
mom was, my mom was told thatshe had something that could be
cancer, wasn't exactly cancer,and I made the sacrifice to go
(24:05):
and help take care of her.
So I was living in New YorkCity where I'm from originally
and lived about 30 to 40 minutesaway from her by car.
And I was willing and able tohelp.
I was living by myself, workinga good job.
And so at the moment when werealized it wasn't good for my
(24:27):
mom, it just became stressful.
She was looking forward toeating healthier and not
working.
I needed to step away for abusiness conference because I
was pursuing my dream, you know.
And when I got back home fromthe conference, she was
different.
Uh I asked her what happened.
What did you what did youthink?
(24:49):
Or what were you thinking?
What were your thoughts while Iwas gone because something's
different.
And she wasn't able to make thejuices for herself anymore.
She didn't have the fight, Ithink is the word, in her.
And when we went to thehospital for another scare, she
asked me, What do you think Ishould do?
(25:09):
She's like, I'm ready to gohome and be with the Lord.
And I understood her when shesaid it to me, but I wasn't
ready for that.
And I had to step away and crymy eyes out.
I don't know, probably for anhour outside of the hospital.
And I called one of my holisticdoctors that helped me talk it
through.
Like, what should I do?
(25:30):
How can I be of support for mymom after she's saying this to
me?
That was the beginning of morestress that I never knew I would
have emotionally.
So I agreed to just keeppraying through it for my own
well-being, but then beingwhatever my mom needed.
And it got to the point whereshe let me know she doesn't want
(25:54):
to be here if she can't takecare of herself.
She doesn't want to rely onsomeone else to take care of
her.
And yes, we talked about howshe wanted things to be done.
She didn't want anyone to comevisit her at the hospital.
Once she got to the point ofbeing in the hospice, that made
it even more challenging.
But I say all this to say thatwas just a little piece of what
(26:17):
stresses I was going throughbefore I learned I was pregnant.
And what is also interestingthough, my husband, who was here
in uh Denver, came to visit.
Let's just give a littletimeline.
My mom found out June 2015,something was off about her
(26:37):
liver.
October 2015 is when I went tothe business conference.
I got back and she learned thatI met my future husband.
And we met actually in August.
We got married in November.
She wanted to be there when wegot married.
We got married in November 2015in New York City.
But at that point, she wasalready not feeling well.
(26:59):
She was already told she mighthave cancer.
She was already starting tolook a little different.
She was losing weight, not ather choice.
And her appetite was not thesame.
After my husband and I cameback from the honeymoon, she's
like, go ahead.
I want you to go ahead and liveyour life.
If I need you, I want you tosay you will come back and help
(27:21):
take care of me.
So I agreed to that.
That was November 2015.
I literally get into DenverNovember 30, 2015.
March 2016, my mom gave me thecall.
Now, mind you, we've talkedbetween November and March.
Sure.
But March 2016 is when shesaid, Sheila, I need you.
Can you come back?
(27:42):
Can you stay here with me?
And the agreement was to bethere until she passed away.
So my husband came to New Yorkto visit in April 2016 for a
little bit because he wasworking.
He went back home to Denver andagreed he'll come back if he
needed to.
So between April and June 2016,my mom said, Are you pregnant?
(28:03):
I was like, No.
It almost doesn't make sense tothink I'm pregnant because I
did take a pregnancy test inMarch 2016 before I went to New
York.
It came back negative.
So I'm thinking I'm notpregnant.
My aunt, one of my aunts, whowas very instrumental in helping
my mom, I have to shout out myaunt Kathy.
Um, she had asked me at onepoint, Shill are you pregnant?
(28:27):
I was like, no.
And mind you, I'm kind ofclueless to what women go
through who don't know thatthey're pregnant.
I've I've heard stories, but Ialways thought in the back of my
head, I don't think I'll bethat.
I think I'll know when I'mpregnant.
That was not the case.
So, long story short, my mompassed away in June 2016.
(28:48):
And I did have two pains in mystomach, like May 2016, but I
didn't think that was a sign ofanything.
And so then my husband and Iwent on a retreat so we could
heal from this loss.
And we were in the Idaho hotsprings, I think is what it's
(29:09):
called in the mountains inColorado.
And uh got back home and I feltlike I couldn't breathe.
He was off to work, he workeduh overnight shift, and I let
him know.
I was like, I feel like I can'tbreathe, I can't sleep, I
don't, I don't know what's goingon.
So it was like two something inthe morning.
He drove me to the hospitalemergency room.
They let me know that aftertaking their tests, not only did
(29:31):
I have way high blood pressure,but I was pregnant and I was 21
weeks pregnant.
Wow.
That was um, I guess the end ofJuly 2016.
So, of course, you can imaginewe're like, okay, um, we went to
the gynecologist, went towhatever appointments we needed
(29:51):
to go to, and we had three weeksof being pregnant together and
it being almost exciting, kindof not knowing exactly what to
do in this situation.
But unfortunately, when we wentfor the checkup three weeks
after finding out that I waspregnant, then the doctor let us
(30:13):
know the heart had stopped.
And it was up to me to decideto go that night to uh go into
labor or the next day, I waslike, I don't want to wait.
So we went that night and I wasWent into labor and it was
almost like the experiences youhear other women talk about.
Epidural is what I had to taketo go through that process.
But what was different and moreum, I don't know what the word
(30:39):
is, uncomfortable is all I canthink of right now.
Is my husband realized then hewas not gonna be able to stay in
the room when the baby wasgonna going to come out of my
body because he was not overlosing his grandbaby from his
previous marriage.
And I was okay with him notbeing in the room because I
wanted my husband to be what Ineed him to be for me later
(31:03):
after this was done.
Um I'm sharing this to say thatthe loss of a baby is an
experience I had, but it wasn'ttill that moment when I was
giving birth I realized, well,this is deeper than I thought it
was gonna be because I feltlike I had to keep my eyes
(31:24):
closed.
There were tears, but I kept myeyes closed.
So when my baby came out of mybody and the nurses said she's
beautiful, I couldn't look.
I couldn't open my eyes.
And they offered to takepictures and all of that, and I
still couldn't look.
And gratefully, the uh rep atthe baby center of the hospital
said that she would hold on tothis until I'm ready to see the
(31:47):
pictures.
And even though that was theagreement, I found out I think
it was three to five yearslater, I felt like I was able
to.
I was like, not sure.
I prayed.
I was like, if I can't handlethis, then don't let the
pictures be available.
So when I finally connected tosomeone at the center, the baby
(32:09):
center, they let me know thatrep was no longer there.
They looked in their files tosee if anything was still there
for me and the files, thepictures were no longer there.
And then for me, that meant Iwould not have been able to
handle it.
And that's just a part of myexperience.
That's a part of my story.
It's uh, it doesn't feel great,but what I do have are my
(32:30):
baby's ashes.
And I didn't know at the timethat jewelry was an option for
ashes of your loved ones.
So I'm not sure when I'll beready, but I have the ashes of
my mom and I have the ashes ofmy baby.
And I like the idea of usingthe ashes in jewelry and that
being something that can staywithin my family.
(32:53):
Yeah.
Or and or share some of theashes with my siblings or
whoever else in the family maywant a jewelry piece as well.
But that that I wanted to toshare before I forgot.
Bruce (33:04):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharingthat.
Yeah.
That's that's a hard place togo.
Yeah.
And and to bring back up and umand to share.
So I'm assuming that that is inyour book.
Oh, yes.
Sheila (33:16):
It is in the book, and I don't know, I don't know where
I will cut myself off, you know,as far as how much I share, but
sure, uh, I know now after theexperience that millions, if not
billions, of women around theworld relate to the loss of a
baby.
Some may not have given birthlike I did, but because of
(33:40):
Instagram and hashtags, I nowknow that's the case.
Bruce (33:44):
Yeah.
Sheila (33:44):
So that's that's a topic I definitely will share.
Bruce (33:47):
I think that women all over the world will appreciate
that and just that, justacknowledging and recognizing
that this is this is child loss.
Miscarriage is child loss,recognizing that and
acknowledging it.
And as I've said, one of thegoals of this podcast is
normalize the conversationaround grief.
And so that this is somethingto have that real conversation,
(34:10):
people, and not walk away fromit and not pretend it didn't
that it's not real loss or notpretend that this is not a
conversation to have.
It's a conversation to havewhen someone wants to have that
conversation.
Indeed.
So I uh um I applaud you forputting that and sharing that in
your book because I believethat will help a lot of people.
Thanks.
Sheila (34:32):
I want to leave the listeners with identifying what
might be a problem, a challengethat they would like help with.
It could be anxiety from justthe topic of who they lost.
It could be more than oneperson.
But let's just say, forexample, it's baby or loss of a
(34:54):
child or miscarriage.
If there's anxiety of that,there's anxiety from the picture
of someone's baby.
It could be an interruption ofsleep.
If there's a constant challengewith that, I want you to
consider it might be a symptomof PTSD, post-traumatic stress
(35:14):
disorder.
I wanted to mention it becauseI did not know I had PTSD after
my dad passed away.
Well, it's more than after mydad.
My dad passed away in 2003.
It wasn't until 2005 that Ilearned that I had PTSD.
And there were several peoplewho passed away right after my
dad.
So before I learned I had PTSD,there were several people that
(35:35):
passed away.
But I wanted to share that itwasn't until I learned I had
symptoms of PTSD that I thensought out a therapist who
specialized in helping clientswith PTSD.
It was one of the mostimportant pieces of information
I needed to know about my body,what I was going through.
(35:55):
So that now going into usingthe tapping exercises, that's
connected to my nervous system.
That's also stemming from whatmy body goes through from being
anxious or if I'm not able tosleep.
So if anyone has symptoms ofPTSD, please get help or
(36:16):
consider getting more help ifyou've already started to get
help.
And also please considerlooking into the tapping
exercise, which I will touch onwith my book because of how it's
helped me.
And I look forward to having areading event in the future when
my book is released so thatpeople can meet in small little
groups and meet thehypnotherapist that helped me
learn about tapping exercise.
Bruce (36:36):
Awesome.
That's so cool.
Now, your musician is one ofthe things.
So, did you mention, I thinkyou mentioned me that there's
gonna be a some sort of like howyou're weaving music into the
book?
Okay, how's tell me about that?
How's that working?
Sheila (36:54):
So, what I'm excited about is when my business coach
shared this strong feeling of mewriting my story, giving my
emotions a voice, she knew thatI wrote and performed music for
the some of the people that hadpassed away.
So I had wrote a few songs withmy dad in mind at the time that
(37:14):
we were grieving, and Iperformed one of them at his
funeral.
Then one of my great aunts, hisaunts, had passed away within
those five years.
I created a song and performedit at her funeral.
So, with that in mind, mybusiness coach thought, okay,
well, why not release your book,have an audiobook, and let the
(37:36):
audiobook include some of themusic that you compose and and
performed at the funerals.
And if anything more and newcomes from music that you
create, then you can, of course,at your choice, choose to
release that music with thataudiobook as well.
So that's the idea, that's theplan.
I'm looking forward to it.
I have written more music, ofcourse, since then.
(37:58):
And um as a result, there'spoetry now too.
Bruce (38:03):
Oh, so all right.
I got a little bit to unpackthere.
So audiobook is really gonna bethe that's gonna be the thing.
Yes, right, because so that'swhere you're gonna get the
experience of you speaking yourbook.
I'm assuming you're gonna, theauthor will speak, yes, and have
the music there as well.
I think that's fascinating.
(38:25):
The way I see it and feel it isfor because for me, the emotion
in music, and and I had afriend write this down for me
and wrote it on a piece ofnotebook paper, and I've
literally got it framed, thatthe emotion in music is my love
language to feel the emotion.
So whether that's heavy orlight or whatever it is, like,
(38:48):
and then most of the time,unless it's just background
music, but it most of the timeif I'm listening to a song, I
can have a and I will have anemotional response to that song
or to the music, whatever thatis.
So what I feel in this is thepower of this of the story that
you are sharing on the griefjourney and the healing along
(39:12):
with the power of the music.
I'm ready.
Let's go.
Like, let's get this thing doneand get it out because I want
to hear this um for sure.
And I'm sure our listeners willas well, and we'll we'll get
that information to themsomehow.
But the you mentioned an ebook.
Yes.
Sheila (39:31):
Tell me about the poetry, like yes, so it's
interesting that lyrics for asong can sometimes be a poem by
itself, and some of the songsthat I've written are that I was
asked to write a poem for BlackHistory Month, where in a
(39:52):
position that I used to be in.
And I wrote it.
I didn't know that it wouldaffect people in such a powerful
way.
For me, it was like writing asong.
So I I performed it.
I performed the poem, Ipresented it as a poet would.
And after that one experience,there were a handful, handful of
(40:13):
people that said, Sheila, doyou have a poetry book?
You should have one.
And then my husband listened tomy poem, and he's like, Yeah,
you should definitely write abook of poetry.
So, fast forward to acombination of healing and then
growing in my own businessefforts, I was like, okay,
great.
I'm going to write a poetrybook, or I'm going to put
(40:34):
together, I will say, because II I've written since I was nine
years old, right?
But as a as an adult healingfrom this grief journey, grief
therapy journey, I realized, oh,okay, so this is healing that
I've written lots of lyrics thatwere meant to be with music,
but I wasn't exactly sure if itneeded to be sung.
(40:56):
And then when I recited it as apoem, I was like, well, well,
that's that's it.
So fast forward to last year, Irealized, okay, yes, it is a
book.
And then this year I decided itwill be an ebook.
So it can easily be in people'scomputers or phones right away.
And yeah, so I do look forwardto releasing that.
(41:18):
It's focused on healing andthere will be a spiritual base
to it.
Bruce (41:24):
Okay, cool.
And how will we get this?
The ebook.
Sheila (41:28):
I'm glad you asked.
Bruce (41:30):
Yeah, because I'm interested.
I want this.
Sheila (41:33):
My best answer right now is to ask people to send an
email with the word reader inthe subject.
Okay.
And my email address.
And I know that you'll be ableto have it somewhere.
So they can spell it right.
OOSheila online at gmail.com.
So think of the song O'Sheila.
(41:54):
That's something that peoplewill usually say, sing to me, no
matter what country I've been.
I've I've experienced that.
So I have to give credit tosomeone that I worked with who
said, Oh, you should doO-O-Sheila.
So O-H O H S H E I L A online.
So O Sheila Online atgmail.com, put reader in the
(42:17):
subject, and then I will emailin response.
Nice.
And then, of course, when it'sreleased and published, then
there's my Instagram profile, OOSheila Online.
Bruce (42:29):
Okay.
That is awesome.
Thanks.
And then I'm gonna put you onthe spot.
Sure.
When do you think a timelinefor again working title, yes,
grief therapy, heartbreak isreal, and healing is possible,
when can we look for that?
Sheila (42:50):
We can look for that at the end of December of this
year, 2025.
Wow.
My goal is my dad's birthdaybecause I, of course, had to
choose what matters to me is isit gonna be something that I
celebrate?
Yeah.
So in order for me to celebratemy dad's birthday, heavenly
birthday at this point isDecember 17.
(43:11):
So, but I say the end ofDecember because my birthday is
December 29th.
So it's one of those two.
Bruce (43:17):
Okay.
And is that gonna be the bookor the but because the audiobook
comes later, right?
Isn't that how the audiobookwill come shortly after?
Yes.
Okay.
Sheila (43:23):
But the book, uh the actual book, Brief Therapy, is
the end of this year, December2025.
Bruce (43:30):
Awesome.
Yes.
All right.
Well, um, to our listeners, soyou've you have Sheila's email
address if you want to reach outdirectly to her, if you want to
reach out to me, my emailfollows this podcast.
Feel free to reach out, feelfeel free to share this podcast
because I'm sure you know peoplethat will benefit from the
(43:53):
ebook, the poetry, and then thebook itself when it comes out.
Thanks.
Well, thank you for coming onthe podcast.
Thank you, thank you.
This has been this has beenwonderful and and powerful, and
I am so looking forward to thebook release.
Thank you, the audiobook, andthe ebook of poetry.
(44:14):
Yes, thanks, Sheila.
I want to thank Sheila forjoining me on the podcast and
for opening her heart to shareher experience with grief.
I'm excited for the release ofher upcoming book at the end of
this year.
The current working title isGrief Therapy.
Heartbreak is Real and Healingis Possible.
(44:36):
If you'd like to connect withSheila directly, you can email
her at O-H O H S H E I L AOnline at Gmail.com.
That's O O Sheilaonline atgmail.com.
And type reader, that'sR-E-A-D-E-R, in the subject line
(44:57):
to receive her ebook once it'sreleased.
Also, as Sheila mentioned, thecontact information for the
hypnotherapist is William Wood.
And William Wood's emailaddress is really simple,
William.wood at northern utahhypnosis.com.
That's William.wood atN-O-R-T-H-E-R
(45:22):
N-U-T-A-H-H-Y-P-N-O-S-I-S.com.
I know that's a mouthful.
William.wood at northernUtahhypnosis.com.
You can also find thisinformation in the description
of this episode wherever youlisten.
As always, thank you forlistening.
(45:44):
Be gentle with yourself andtake care.
Welcome to Don't Forget to Breathe.
I'm your host, Bruce Barker.
My guest today is SheilaJohnson Wilson, a writer,
musician, and professionalcoordinator who has endured the
heartbreaking loss of more than20 loved ones, including 17
within just a five-year period.
Grief has become a constantcompanion she never asked for,
(00:57):
but through deep personal work,Sheila has found healing and now
shares her story to inspireothers with courage to heal,
support one another, and dreamagain.
Sheila is currently writing abook centered on grief therapy,
and I'm honored she agreed tojoin me on the podcast to open
her heart and her story.
(01:18):
Let's step into theconversation.
Alright, Sheila, so you'rewriting a book.
Yes.
The working title, it's GriefTherapy, Heartbreak is Real and
Healing Is Possible.
Did I get that right?
Yes.
What inspired you or promptedyou or drove you, directed you
(01:40):
to write the book?
Sheila (01:42):
What drove me to write the book was a business coach.
I was creating music,producing, on my way to
finishing a project, but I'vehad losses.
And when I was telling mybusiness coach my story, my
experience of the 17 loved onesthat I lost back to back within
(02:04):
five years that then continuedin different time frames, which
then included my mother in 2016,and then my baby shortly after
my mom in 2016, and then one ofmy close uncles later in 2016.
(02:26):
And then fast forward to 2020,the year that we all, or most of
us, I should say, experiencedCOVID, one of my uncles
committed suicide.
And that was one of my mom'sbrothers.
And so once I told my businesscoach that, she said, Oh,
Sheila, you need to tell yourstory.
Give your emotions a voice.
(02:48):
And she gave me the courage todo it because she wrote her book
about her story of survivingbreast cancer.
And so that's the beginning ofme writing my book and having
the courage to do it.
And to say that I started it isone thing.
To finish it is another thing.
(03:08):
And I didn't know that when Istarted, I would go through all
these emotions to the pointwhere I needed therapy again.
And again.
Bruce (03:16):
Yep.
Been there.
Sheila (03:17):
And so that helped to heal a lot more.
And now I'm at the point whereI'm ready to finish it and be a
blessing, is the way I like tosee it, to those who need it,
need to hear my story.
Bruce (03:32):
That absolutely resonates with me.
And listeners who have followedthis podcast from the beginning
know about that three-yearbreak that I took.
And that's part of why I tookthat break.
There were things in doing thepodcast and doing the work that
uh really stirred up a lot ofemotions and holding up that
(03:53):
mirror and going, okay, yougotta do some more work.
And because I want to bepresent in doing this podcast
and not fake it.
So I know I need to be in agood place.
And that was taking that break,getting into some more therapy,
doing a lot more work, to thenbe, as you say, ready for the
(04:14):
next step.
And that was me being ready torelaunch the podcast.
So that absolutely resonateswith me, and I think it will for
other listeners, and and alsogive them the the okay.
You're not gonna necessarily dotherapy and you're done.
You might need to revisit asmore and more things come up and
(04:36):
more and more things arediscovered.
Sheila (04:38):
Exactly.
Yes, exactly.
And I will say that finding theright therapist was an
interesting journey or part ofthe journey, I should say.
There's one thing to say, I'mgoing to my therapy session.
It's another thing to say, I'mgoing to a grief therapist.
Uh, there are therapists nowthat make sure they have that
(05:01):
listed in their credentials,that they do focus on grief.
Those who don't may be able tohelp, but not so much.
That's my experience because Idid have therapists who who did
not have grief included in theircredentials.
Right.
That was one thing I do, I didwant to mention.
Bruce (05:16):
Yeah.
No, I've I've heard that fromother people, people that I work
with in in group sessions, thesame thing where it's finding
the connection.
So it's almost like in these umgrief groups that I facilitate,
the biggest thing that I hearfrom everyone that's in there is
I'm just with a group of peoplethat get it.
(05:37):
And I think, as you mentioned,finding that therapist that you
one you have that you need toconnect with to be your most
vulnerable in an undescribablefor parents, you know, we this
is our worst, worst possiblething that could happen.
And to be safe in doing that isto be with a therapist that
gets it.
That's really it.
And just gets you.
(05:59):
There can be a lot of training,there can be a lot of a lot of
that that's gone on, and to be alicensed therapist, which is um
absolutely wonderful, and Iencourage anyone to seek a
licensed therapist.
As I say in the in the podcast,I'm not a licensed therapist,
just a dad.
You're not a licensedtherapist, right?
Sheila (06:19):
I'm not, I was looking forward to saying that too, just
to be clear.
I'm not a licensed therapisteither.
Bruce (06:23):
We're just giving our experiences and where where
things have taken us and whatwe've learned in the grief
journey and the healing journey.
Sheila (06:34):
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Bruce (06:35):
Yeah.
Sheila (06:35):
Yeah.
I want to also mention that thetherapist that was really
instrumental in my healing aftermy uncle committed suicide.
Now that, mind you, is 2020.
Okay, so 2016, my mom, my baby,my uncle, 2020, my uncle, that
really made it rougher for me.
(06:57):
The therapist who helped me themost at that time is considered
a hypnotherapist.
Now I've heard of it.
I've heard of hypnosis.
I've been in the presence ofartists that I worked with who
experienced it and spoke highlyof it.
I kept it in the back of myhead.
When I met the hypnotherapist,it was in a business conference
(07:21):
situation.
So it wasn't about therapy.
But when we talked personallyabout what I was trying to
accomplish in business, that'swhen I learned more about how he
could potentially help me withthe therapy part.
So yes, William Wood,hypnotherapist.
We can leave his informationlater where you give information
to your listeners.
But what he did was took methrough a journey of identifying
(07:46):
where I was hurt, how I wasfeeling that particular day.
And then he, as theprofessional and expert in this
area, took me through a seriesof exercises, a combination of
closing my eyes and him sayingthings to me and me responding
with my eyes closed to what hewas doing.
Mind you, this was through Zoombecause it was during the time
(08:08):
of COVID.
And he did a series ofexercises that made me feel
better.
But then he also recommended afew books for me to read.
One was more aboutunderstanding my feelings and
having the courage to aim tofeel a little bit better every
(08:28):
single day.
And then he he also introducedme to tapping, tapping
exercises.
Have you heard of that?
Bruce (08:34):
Like EMDR?
Sheila (08:35):
Yes.
And little did I know thatwould be what my nervous system
specifically needed.
So I've heard reviews, uh, I'veI've heard testimonies.
There are people who sharedthat they were able to live life
a little bit better because ofhow the tapping exercise helped
(08:57):
them heal.
So I wanted to just make sure Igot that out really.
Tapping exercise beyond thehypnotherapy was where I landed
as what I need to practice everysingle day, if not every single
week.
Bruce (09:11):
Yeah, I did I did EMDR uh with someone that and that is
what they specialized in.
And again, I at the time I'mgoing in skeptical, but once I
allowed myself to let go andthen starting with all of it,
and then I felt a physicalchange and you know, and then
(09:33):
after the first session, and sheshe's like, So what do you
think?
I'm like, Okay, all right,yeah, I get it.
Well and then would goobviously go back for more.
And it's just to someone whohasn't done it, it would seem
like really you're just gonnayou're gonna tap.
But actually, but doing it.
(09:53):
And so there's so many thingsobviously that I don't
understand about how everythingworks body, mind, soul, all of
it.
I I I don't, but as part ofthat healing journey, I you're
willing I'm willing to tryanything.
Once I was ready.
Right.
Again, for me, it was yearsbefore I was really ready to do
(10:17):
the work.
Once I started that, then yes,I'm willing to try.
Try whatever's ever's gonnahelp.
And knowing I'm feeling badmaybe during a session, after a
session, because we're goingplaces that I didn't want to go,
right, and my conscious, butactually getting there and doing
(10:38):
the work and doing the healing,um, the things that hurt.
Right.
And the books, so the otherbooks that you had read, you had
all these books, but youdecided you wanted to write your
own.
Sheila (10:50):
Yes.
Bruce (10:51):
Why is that?
Sheila (10:51):
I'm glad you asked.
Why?
The books that I read weresuggested out of a good place.
So I went into reading thebooks open, but I was hurting
when I was reading the books,and it felt like something was
(11:12):
missing from what I was reading.
Yes, I needed to know thephases of grief.
Yes, I needed to know theclinical part of what that
process is like to grieve andidentify I'm angry, or identify
I'm guilty, or I identify I'mjust really sad right now, or I
(11:35):
just want to be by myself.
But there were experiences Istarted to have that no one
talked about.
And one of those is where I sawa gentleman walking down the
street.
I was in my apartment lookingout the window, and the
gentleman looked just like mydad.
My dad had passed away morethan four years before that.
(11:57):
So intellectually, in my mind,I knew that wasn't my dad.
Spiritually, though, or or justthis sensation I had in my body
made me feel like that was mydad, almost as if it were I was
in a movie and that was an angeland it was my dad.
That's what that moment waslike.
And I was like, hold on, whatdo I do with this?
Because I'm feeling like cryingmy eyes out right now.
(12:19):
I really don't know what thisis.
And so none of the books that Iread touched on that.
And my book will touch on thatbecause I've experienced it more
than once.
And I know other people nowpersonally who have experienced
it as well.
And I'm so happy to know that,you know, you because you and I
had a brief conversation aboutit, that's not foreign to you
(12:39):
either.
No, and so if it's not foreignto us, it's not foreign to other
people who are just not writingabout it yet, or I haven't read
their book yet, or peoplehaven't talked about it yet.
Either way, it's like, let'stalk about it, let's let's touch
that part in our soul thatcould heal a little bit more
because we relate to that.
(13:00):
And and then so when it happensagain to me, I'm not feeling so
lost or detached from the humanbody, if that makes sense.
Bruce (13:10):
Yeah.
So you can be more in themoment and and exactly and aware
and accept and celebrate, Iguess, if you will.
And and I say that only from mypersonal experience that I
shared.
That I mean, yes, I've haddreams where Kristen has is
there, she's still 20, but it'spresent time.
(13:33):
But we're having conversationsabout present time, like things
that are going on.
And and I, you know, again,everybody's got their own
beliefs and their own thoughts.
And I just take them as aslittle presents, as little
visits.
And so again, it could bepsychoanalyzing it and say, oh
no, you're just imaginingthings.
I don't really care.
It works for me.
Right.
Right.
(13:54):
And I think it, I think thosekind of moments work for other
parents.
But one in particular I knowthat I shared with you was being
at the airport, you know, overwork.
And I happened to be comingback in and was on the train,
um, get off the train in theterminal and go up these really
long escalators to get up.
And I could see toward the topsomeone in the there's two
(14:16):
escalators side by side, someonein the escalator just to the
left of me that looked just likeKristen from behind.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Right.
Bruce (14:22):
Same little deal.
And as, I mean, yes, there wasan emotional moment.
There was it was that littlebit of a flutter.
Right.
Right.
And then I see her just at thetop.
She reached with her finger andkind of pulled hair behind her
ears the same way Kristen woulddo as she's at the top of the
escalator and steps and turns tothe right, but she looks
(14:43):
directly at me, and I'm halfwaydown the escalator on the other
side, looks directly at me andwalks away.
I mean, turned and lookeddirectly at me and then walked
away, and of course, gone by thetime I could get to the top of
the escalator.
So it's moments that's that'swhy I I um I related to what you
were saying.
It was like, okay, does theintellectual say no?
(15:06):
It wasn't Christian?
Does the spirit side go?
Could it have been a little, Idon't know, can't explain it.
I don't need to explain it.
I don't feel the need to for meto go, let me break this down.
I just accepted it because I'dhad and then and just it was
emotional, but just smiled.
(15:26):
But in a pop, and but andagain, that's part of I think
where I am in the healingprocess and where I am where I
can say I am healed from this,but carrying all the scars
doesn't mean I'm not healed, itjust means there's scars.
The same with any physicalwound on our on our bodies.
You can heal from a surgery,from an accident, from a cut,
(15:51):
from a break, and there's scars,and that's what it is with me.
So I was able to accept it andthen smile and go, okay, that
was cool.
Thanks.
Right.
And just accept that moment.
So you're right.
I think we can't be the onlytwo.
Sheila (16:07):
No, we can't be.
And I want to say the fact thatyou were able to say, oh, that
was cool, is an indication thatyou are definitely healed,
right?
I couldn't say that was cool.
Yeah.
I couldn't.
And then when it happened againwhen I saw someone that looked
like my uncle, one of my unclesthat passed away after my dad,
it happened again when I sawsomeone who looked like my
(16:27):
godmother.
After this is all about afterthey passed away, when I saw
someone who looked like theperson I love deeply who passed
away.
So let's say 2003, my dadpassed away.
Within five years, 17 peoplepassed away, literally back to
back.
So I could not ever withinthose five years say, oh, that
(16:47):
was cool.
And that was the challenge.
That was the challenge for me.
So fast forward to 2020, I'mwriting all this music or
composing, producing all thismusic.
And my business coach says,okay, now you you need to tell
your story.
It's at that point when I stilldidn't know I could say cool,
but I was able to feel like thishas happened enough.
(17:10):
Something is about this, and Iwant to feel good about it.
I want to feel good about it.
So I heard the late and greatNatalie Cole share on TV that
her and her siblings, and Ibelieve her mother at the time,
who was still alive at the time,share how they were in a store,
(17:31):
heard her dad, Nat King Cole'sChristmas song, one of the
songs.
Yeah.
And how that at that momentthey saw each other, they were
different racks, but still insight of each other, and looked
at each other and nodded, yeah,that's him.
I was like, that's what I want.
That's what I feel like I need.
I need someone to be on thesame page with me about this
(17:51):
moment where I'm either hearingsomething that is exactly the
person, or I'm seeing someonewho looks exactly like the
person I just lost.
Right.
And it was after I saw thatinterview that I was like, I
need that.
I need something like that.
And I believe you're probablyonly the second person,
literally, that we where I wasable to feel like I just
(18:17):
connected with someone who knowsexactly what I'm talking about.
And um more courageous, youknow, to to finish the process
of writing the book because itstill is painful.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Oh, yeah.
Sheila (18:32):
It still is painful.
But I want to say somethingthat you mentioned about scars.
There's something in thescriptures, and I'll I'll have
it in my book that talks abouthow when we have gone through
pain and suffering, there'sstill something for us to be
(18:53):
able to give.
And that's the part of helpingother people who are going
through the same pain andsufferings.
We we can be better when wehelp other people going through
the same pain and sufferings.
That part is for me where thescar is not ugly.
It's not, you know, it's not abad thing.
(19:13):
The scar can be used forsomething better or good for
someone else, you know, to helpsomeone else.
That's the best way I can putit right now.
But that's something that I'mdefinitely sharing, you know, in
my book as well.
When I when I complete it, Ilook forward to to hearing how
many people can relate to that.
Bruce (19:31):
The thing with scars, I mean, I know that I guess as a
kid or just growing up orwhatever, you you hear about
scars or you see scars initiallyand it's scary.
Right.
And then, all right, so we'llfast forward to a scene from
Jaws where they're comparingtheir scars and their battle
stories and laughing, and andbecause they they tell a story.
(19:55):
And then I think to transitionto the scars that we feel and
the scars that I have is yes, Ican tell the story.
I can tell the story of theunimaginable loss, and I can
tell the story of terribly hardwork and pain in the healing
process.
And then to get to the scars,and well, you might look at them
(20:21):
and go, they're not, that's nota beautiful thing.
Says who.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Right.
Bruce (20:27):
Right?
It shows that you've beenthrough something, but you're on
the other side.
You've you've healed.
It's not, again, that same,it's not that old phrase, oh,
I'm over it.
No, it's not that.
It's you have gone through it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right.
Bruce (20:40):
Right?
You didn't go over it.
You're through it and you arehealed, but the scars are there.
There's those reminders.
You don't forget.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right.
Bruce (20:49):
You don't forget what they look like, you don't forget
what they sound like.
You know, all of those thingsthat I know I feared, and other
people that I've talked to thatfeared, I'm afraid I'm gonna
forget how they sounded or whatthat parents have said, and and
all I can say is no, you neverwill.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right.
Bruce (21:04):
And I can hear her voice pop in my head right now as a uh
four-year-old, three-year,four-year-old, young adult.
Whatever, it's there, it's notgonna go away.
But that's part of the healing.
But it is the it's the scary inbetween.
Right.
It's sort of the way I look atit, what's between the shadow
(21:24):
and the light, like what's inthat space.
And that's that's where we are.
Right.
And and we learn, and it hurts.
The same as if you've had asurgery or or whatever it is.
When it's healing, it's soreand it hurts.
The worse the surgery, or theworse, whatever, the harder and
(21:45):
the more pain that you feel.
And I example, and I and I mayhave referred to this um in a
previous podcast.
I'm not sure, but this thispottery piece that I made to
break that gave a littledepiction of of my life,
Kristen's life, because I didall these phases on her
(22:06):
birthdays, um, to be veryintentional about it.
And I know when you put it backtogether with Kinzuki, and you
have to hold the pieces tillthey set.
And I remember holding thefirst two pieces, and I could
feel a pinch in my palm anddidn't think that much about it.
I figured, oh, it's a sharp,there's a sharp edge.
And then when it was set enoughto pull it apart, and then I
look, and then my inside of mypalm is just bleeding because it
(22:28):
had pushed, it was sharp enoughthat it cut and it was cutting,
but I was still holding it eventhough there was pain.
And then I looked at it, andagain, I'm at the stage now
where I can laugh and go, okay,all right, I get it.
Yeah.
That there's pain and it's slowwhen you're putting the pieces
back one by one.
And every parent that stepsinto that vulnerability and has
(22:54):
the courage to heal and to dothe work.
Like I commend everyone forthat and encourage everyone for
that.
It's easy to just um as somesay that they feel they're
stuck.
That's easy.
It's easy not to do something.
It's really hard to do thisbecause you gotta get in it.
Right.
So the same as like writing thebook, but you're back in it,
(23:15):
right?
Everything that you're writing,and it's painful.
Sheila (23:20):
Yes.
And I like the way you said it.
It's slow healing.
But it is healing.
And there's a couple of thingsyou just mentioned.
I wanted to uh bring up loss ofbaby, I guess, right now,
because everyone's situation isdefinitely different.
And I I'm I commend you forsaying, you know, everyone has
(23:42):
their way of doing it, andcommend everyone who is willing
and courageous to do the work.
My situation was unexpected,and it was during the time my
mom was, my mom was told thatshe had something that could be
cancer, wasn't exactly cancer,and I made the sacrifice to go
(24:05):
and help take care of her.
So I was living in New YorkCity where I'm from originally
and lived about 30 to 40 minutesaway from her by car.
And I was willing and able tohelp.
I was living by myself, workinga good job.
And so at the moment when werealized it wasn't good for my
(24:27):
mom, it just became stressful.
She was looking forward toeating healthier and not
working.
I needed to step away for abusiness conference because I
was pursuing my dream, you know.
And when I got back home fromthe conference, she was
different.
Uh I asked her what happened.
What did you what did youthink?
(24:49):
Or what were you thinking?
What were your thoughts while Iwas gone because something's
different.
And she wasn't able to make thejuices for herself anymore.
She didn't have the fight, Ithink is the word, in her.
And when we went to thehospital for another scare, she
asked me, What do you think Ishould do?
(25:09):
She's like, I'm ready to gohome and be with the Lord.
And I understood her when shesaid it to me, but I wasn't
ready for that.
And I had to step away and crymy eyes out.
I don't know, probably for anhour outside of the hospital.
And I called one of my holisticdoctors that helped me talk it
through.
Like, what should I do?
(25:30):
How can I be of support for mymom after she's saying this to
me?
That was the beginning of morestress that I never knew I would
have emotionally.
So I agreed to just keeppraying through it for my own
well-being, but then beingwhatever my mom needed.
And it got to the point whereshe let me know she doesn't want
(25:54):
to be here if she can't takecare of herself.
She doesn't want to rely onsomeone else to take care of
her.
And yes, we talked about howshe wanted things to be done.
She didn't want anyone to comevisit her at the hospital.
Once she got to the point ofbeing in the hospice, that made
it even more challenging.
But I say all this to say thatwas just a little piece of what
(26:17):
stresses I was going throughbefore I learned I was pregnant.
And what is also interestingthough, my husband, who was here
in uh Denver, came to visit.
Let's just give a littletimeline.
My mom found out June 2015,something was off about her
(26:37):
liver.
October 2015 is when I went tothe business conference.
I got back and she learned thatI met my future husband.
And we met actually in August.
We got married in November.
She wanted to be there when wegot married.
We got married in November 2015in New York City.
But at that point, she wasalready not feeling well.
(26:59):
She was already told she mighthave cancer.
She was already starting tolook a little different.
She was losing weight, not ather choice.
And her appetite was not thesame.
After my husband and I cameback from the honeymoon, she's
like, go ahead.
I want you to go ahead and liveyour life.
If I need you, I want you tosay you will come back and help
(27:21):
take care of me.
So I agreed to that.
That was November 2015.
I literally get into DenverNovember 30, 2015.
March 2016, my mom gave me thecall.
Now, mind you, we've talkedbetween November and March.
Sure.
But March 2016 is when shesaid, Sheila, I need you.
Can you come back?
(27:42):
Can you stay here with me?
And the agreement was to bethere until she passed away.
So my husband came to New Yorkto visit in April 2016 for a
little bit because he wasworking.
He went back home to Denver andagreed he'll come back if he
needed to.
So between April and June 2016,my mom said, Are you pregnant?
(28:03):
I was like, No.
It almost doesn't make sense tothink I'm pregnant because I
did take a pregnancy test inMarch 2016 before I went to New
York.
It came back negative.
So I'm thinking I'm notpregnant.
My aunt, one of my aunts, whowas very instrumental in helping
my mom, I have to shout out myaunt Kathy.
Um, she had asked me at onepoint, Shill are you pregnant?
(28:27):
I was like, no.
And mind you, I'm kind ofclueless to what women go
through who don't know thatthey're pregnant.
I've I've heard stories, but Ialways thought in the back of my
head, I don't think I'll bethat.
I think I'll know when I'mpregnant.
That was not the case.
So, long story short, my mompassed away in June 2016.
(28:48):
And I did have two pains in mystomach, like May 2016, but I
didn't think that was a sign ofanything.
And so then my husband and Iwent on a retreat so we could
heal from this loss.
And we were in the Idaho hotsprings, I think is what it's
(29:09):
called in the mountains inColorado.
And uh got back home and I feltlike I couldn't breathe.
He was off to work, he workeduh overnight shift, and I let
him know.
I was like, I feel like I can'tbreathe, I can't sleep, I
don't, I don't know what's goingon.
So it was like two something inthe morning.
He drove me to the hospitalemergency room.
They let me know that aftertaking their tests, not only did
(29:31):
I have way high blood pressure,but I was pregnant and I was 21
weeks pregnant.
Wow.
That was um, I guess the end ofJuly 2016.
So, of course, you can imaginewe're like, okay, um, we went to
the gynecologist, went towhatever appointments we needed
(29:51):
to go to, and we had three weeksof being pregnant together and
it being almost exciting, kindof not knowing exactly what to
do in this situation.
But unfortunately, when we wentfor the checkup three weeks
after finding out that I waspregnant, then the doctor let us
(30:13):
know the heart had stopped.
And it was up to me to decideto go that night to uh go into
labor or the next day, I waslike, I don't want to wait.
So we went that night and I wasWent into labor and it was
almost like the experiences youhear other women talk about.
Epidural is what I had to taketo go through that process.
But what was different and moreum, I don't know what the word
(30:39):
is, uncomfortable is all I canthink of right now.
Is my husband realized then hewas not gonna be able to stay in
the room when the baby wasgonna going to come out of my
body because he was not overlosing his grandbaby from his
previous marriage.
And I was okay with him notbeing in the room because I
wanted my husband to be what Ineed him to be for me later
(31:03):
after this was done.
Um I'm sharing this to say thatthe loss of a baby is an
experience I had, but it wasn'ttill that moment when I was
giving birth I realized, well,this is deeper than I thought it
was gonna be because I feltlike I had to keep my eyes
(31:24):
closed.
There were tears, but I kept myeyes closed.
So when my baby came out of mybody and the nurses said she's
beautiful, I couldn't look.
I couldn't open my eyes.
And they offered to takepictures and all of that, and I
still couldn't look.
And gratefully, the uh rep atthe baby center of the hospital
said that she would hold on tothis until I'm ready to see the
(31:47):
pictures.
And even though that was theagreement, I found out I think
it was three to five yearslater, I felt like I was able
to.
I was like, not sure.
I prayed.
I was like, if I can't handlethis, then don't let the
pictures be available.
So when I finally connected tosomeone at the center, the baby
(32:09):
center, they let me know thatrep was no longer there.
They looked in their files tosee if anything was still there
for me and the files, thepictures were no longer there.
And then for me, that meant Iwould not have been able to
handle it.
And that's just a part of myexperience.
That's a part of my story.
It's uh, it doesn't feel great,but what I do have are my
(32:30):
baby's ashes.
And I didn't know at the timethat jewelry was an option for
ashes of your loved ones.
So I'm not sure when I'll beready, but I have the ashes of
my mom and I have the ashes ofmy baby.
And I like the idea of usingthe ashes in jewelry and that
being something that can staywithin my family.
(32:53):
Yeah.
Or and or share some of theashes with my siblings or
whoever else in the family maywant a jewelry piece as well.
But that that I wanted to toshare before I forgot.
Bruce (33:04):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharingthat.
Yeah.
That's that's a hard place togo.
Yeah.
And and to bring back up and umand to share.
So I'm assuming that that is inyour book.
Oh, yes.
Sheila (33:16):
It is in the book, and I don't know, I don't know where
I will cut myself off, you know,as far as how much I share, but
sure, uh, I know now after theexperience that millions, if not
billions, of women around theworld relate to the loss of a
baby.
Some may not have given birthlike I did, but because of
(33:40):
Instagram and hashtags, I nowknow that's the case.
Bruce (33:44):
Yeah.
Sheila (33:44):
So that's that's a topic I definitely will share.
Bruce (33:47):
I think that women all over the world will appreciate
that and just that, justacknowledging and recognizing
that this is this is child loss.
Miscarriage is child loss,recognizing that and
acknowledging it.
And as I've said, one of thegoals of this podcast is
normalize the conversationaround grief.
And so that this is somethingto have that real conversation,
(34:10):
people, and not walk away fromit and not pretend it didn't
that it's not real loss or notpretend that this is not a
conversation to have.
It's a conversation to havewhen someone wants to have that
conversation.
Indeed.
So I uh um I applaud you forputting that and sharing that in
your book because I believethat will help a lot of people.
Thanks.
Sheila (34:32):
I want to leave the listeners with identifying what
might be a problem, a challengethat they would like help with.
It could be anxiety from justthe topic of who they lost.
It could be more than oneperson.
But let's just say, forexample, it's baby or loss of a
(34:54):
child or miscarriage.
If there's anxiety of that,there's anxiety from the picture
of someone's baby.
It could be an interruption ofsleep.
If there's a constant challengewith that, I want you to
consider it might be a symptomof PTSD, post-traumatic stress
(35:14):
disorder.
I wanted to mention it becauseI did not know I had PTSD after
my dad passed away.
Well, it's more than after mydad.
My dad passed away in 2003.
It wasn't until 2005 that Ilearned that I had PTSD.
And there were several peoplewho passed away right after my
dad.
So before I learned I had PTSD,there were several people that
(35:35):
passed away.
But I wanted to share that itwasn't until I learned I had
symptoms of PTSD that I thensought out a therapist who
specialized in helping clientswith PTSD.
It was one of the mostimportant pieces of information
I needed to know about my body,what I was going through.
(35:55):
So that now going into usingthe tapping exercises, that's
connected to my nervous system.
That's also stemming from whatmy body goes through from being
anxious or if I'm not able tosleep.
So if anyone has symptoms ofPTSD, please get help or
(36:16):
consider getting more help ifyou've already started to get
help.
And also please considerlooking into the tapping
exercise, which I will touch onwith my book because of how it's
helped me.
And I look forward to having areading event in the future when
my book is released so thatpeople can meet in small little
groups and meet thehypnotherapist that helped me
learn about tapping exercise.
Bruce (36:36):
Awesome.
That's so cool.
Now, your musician is one ofthe things.
So, did you mention, I thinkyou mentioned me that there's
gonna be a some sort of like howyou're weaving music into the
book?
Okay, how's tell me about that?
How's that working?
Sheila (36:54):
So, what I'm excited about is when my business coach
shared this strong feeling of mewriting my story, giving my
emotions a voice, she knew thatI wrote and performed music for
the some of the people that hadpassed away.
So I had wrote a few songs withmy dad in mind at the time that
(37:14):
we were grieving, and Iperformed one of them at his
funeral.
Then one of my great aunts, hisaunts, had passed away within
those five years.
I created a song and performedit at her funeral.
So, with that in mind, mybusiness coach thought, okay,
well, why not release your book,have an audiobook, and let the
(37:36):
audiobook include some of themusic that you compose and and
performed at the funerals.
And if anything more and newcomes from music that you
create, then you can, of course,at your choice, choose to
release that music with thataudiobook as well.
So that's the idea, that's theplan.
I'm looking forward to it.
I have written more music, ofcourse, since then.
(37:58):
And um as a result, there'spoetry now too.
Bruce (38:03):
Oh, so all right.
I got a little bit to unpackthere.
So audiobook is really gonna bethe that's gonna be the thing.
Yes, right, because so that'swhere you're gonna get the
experience of you speaking yourbook.
I'm assuming you're gonna, theauthor will speak, yes, and have
the music there as well.
I think that's fascinating.
(38:25):
The way I see it and feel it isfor because for me, the emotion
in music, and and I had afriend write this down for me
and wrote it on a piece ofnotebook paper, and I've
literally got it framed, thatthe emotion in music is my love
language to feel the emotion.
So whether that's heavy orlight or whatever it is, like,
(38:48):
and then most of the time,unless it's just background
music, but it most of the timeif I'm listening to a song, I
can have a and I will have anemotional response to that song
or to the music, whatever thatis.
So what I feel in this is thepower of this of the story that
you are sharing on the griefjourney and the healing along
(39:12):
with the power of the music.
I'm ready.
Let's go.
Like, let's get this thing doneand get it out because I want
to hear this um for sure.
And I'm sure our listeners willas well, and we'll we'll get
that information to themsomehow.
But the you mentioned an ebook.
Yes.
Sheila (39:31):
Tell me about the poetry, like yes, so it's
interesting that lyrics for asong can sometimes be a poem by
itself, and some of the songsthat I've written are that I was
asked to write a poem for BlackHistory Month, where in a
(39:52):
position that I used to be in.
And I wrote it.
I didn't know that it wouldaffect people in such a powerful
way.
For me, it was like writing asong.
So I I performed it.
I performed the poem, Ipresented it as a poet would.
And after that one experience,there were a handful, handful of
(40:13):
people that said, Sheila, doyou have a poetry book?
You should have one.
And then my husband listened tomy poem, and he's like, Yeah,
you should definitely write abook of poetry.
So, fast forward to acombination of healing and then
growing in my own businessefforts, I was like, okay,
great.
I'm going to write a poetrybook, or I'm going to put
(40:34):
together, I will say, because II I've written since I was nine
years old, right?
But as a as an adult healingfrom this grief journey, grief
therapy journey, I realized, oh,okay, so this is healing that
I've written lots of lyrics thatwere meant to be with music,
but I wasn't exactly sure if itneeded to be sung.
(40:56):
And then when I recited it as apoem, I was like, well, well,
that's that's it.
So fast forward to last year, Irealized, okay, yes, it is a
book.
And then this year I decided itwill be an ebook.
So it can easily be in people'scomputers or phones right away.
And yeah, so I do look forwardto releasing that.
(41:18):
It's focused on healing andthere will be a spiritual base
to it.
Bruce (41:24):
Okay, cool.
And how will we get this?
The ebook.
Sheila (41:28):
I'm glad you asked.
Bruce (41:30):
Yeah, because I'm interested.
I want this.
Sheila (41:33):
My best answer right now is to ask people to send an
email with the word reader inthe subject.
Okay.
And my email address.
And I know that you'll be ableto have it somewhere.
So they can spell it right.
OOSheila online at gmail.com.
So think of the song O'Sheila.
(41:54):
That's something that peoplewill usually say, sing to me, no
matter what country I've been.
I've I've experienced that.
So I have to give credit tosomeone that I worked with who
said, Oh, you should doO-O-Sheila.
So O-H O H S H E I L A online.
So O Sheila Online atgmail.com, put reader in the
(42:17):
subject, and then I will emailin response.
Nice.
And then, of course, when it'sreleased and published, then
there's my Instagram profile, OOSheila Online.
Bruce (42:29):
Okay.
That is awesome.
Thanks.
And then I'm gonna put you onthe spot.
Sure.
When do you think a timelinefor again working title, yes,
grief therapy, heartbreak isreal, and healing is possible,
when can we look for that?
Sheila (42:50):
We can look for that at the end of December of this
year, 2025.
Wow.
My goal is my dad's birthdaybecause I, of course, had to
choose what matters to me is isit gonna be something that I
celebrate?
Yeah.
So in order for me to celebratemy dad's birthday, heavenly
birthday at this point isDecember 17.
(43:11):
So, but I say the end ofDecember because my birthday is
December 29th.
So it's one of those two.
Bruce (43:17):
Okay.
And is that gonna be the bookor the but because the audiobook
comes later, right?
Isn't that how the audiobookwill come shortly after?
Yes.
Okay.
Sheila (43:23):
But the book, uh the actual book, Brief Therapy, is
the end of this year, December2025.
Bruce (43:30):
Awesome.
Yes.
All right.
Well, um, to our listeners, soyou've you have Sheila's email
address if you want to reach outdirectly to her, if you want to
reach out to me, my emailfollows this podcast.
Feel free to reach out, feelfeel free to share this podcast
because I'm sure you know peoplethat will benefit from the
(43:53):
ebook, the poetry, and then thebook itself when it comes out.
Thanks.
Well, thank you for coming onthe podcast.
Thank you, thank you.
This has been this has beenwonderful and and powerful, and
I am so looking forward to thebook release.
Thank you, the audiobook, andthe ebook of poetry.
(44:14):
Yes, thanks, Sheila.
I want to thank Sheila forjoining me on the podcast and
for opening her heart to shareher experience with grief.
I'm excited for the release ofher upcoming book at the end of
this year.
The current working title isGrief Therapy.
Heartbreak is Real and Healingis Possible.
(44:36):
If you'd like to connect withSheila directly, you can email
her at O-H O H S H E I L AOnline at Gmail.com.
That's O O Sheilaonline atgmail.com.
And type reader, that'sR-E-A-D-E-R, in the subject line
(44:57):
to receive her ebook once it'sreleased.
Also, as Sheila mentioned, thecontact information for the
hypnotherapist is William Wood.
And William Wood's emailaddress is really simple,
William.wood at northern utahhypnosis.com.
That's William.wood atN-O-R-T-H-E-R
(45:22):
N-U-T-A-H-H-Y-P-N-O-S-I-S.com.
I know that's a mouthful.
William.wood at northernUtahhypnosis.com.
You can also find thisinformation in the description
of this episode wherever youlisten.
As always, thank you forlistening.
(45:44):
Be gentle with yourself andtake care.
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