The One Where We're Under Authority (Dina Escapes A Cult Pt. V)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
It's the Don't Make it Weird Podcast with your hosts
, daniel and Dinosaurus, foranyone, don't listen to me, it's
for your faces, it's for yourbeautiful, sexy, sexy faces.
But we want to be your comedystorytelling podcast and we hope
you guys uh check this outbecause, uh, I am joined as
always by my better half.
I am joined by the shining starof strenuous, serendipitous,
stupendous serenity dina sores.

(00:40):
Hey, so d quick question howcome you didn't put on makeup
today?
I thought the show was serious.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
I just natural beauty Is more important to me Than
anything.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Than doing any makeup or spending an hour In a
discord channel putting onmakeup.
Is that, Dina?
You look gorgeous.
You look gorgeous.
Thank you your hair's on point,you are.
You are prepared.
So.
So, dina, I felt like, afterlike last week's cringy
copulation where we got likereally into Jurassic loads, that

(01:16):
there was only one real choicehere.
Would you agree that it's it'stime to just fucking get back to
the cult?

Speaker 4 (01:25):
I agree Back to the cult.
I agree Back to the cult, tothe cult machine.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Back to the cult everyone, and that's what we're
going to be doing today, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
She decided to rejoin the cult after being subject to
that.
What if I did?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
After some Chuck Tingle Dean was like nope, I'm
good here.
Secular community.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
That was way too secular.
That was like extremesecularism.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
That was way too secular.
That was like extreme secularsecularism.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
That was just the devil, that was just purely the
devil.
And, guys, if you're hearing athird voice here, that's the
only adult in the room, becauseyou know what guys.
So rock me Shawnee like a wagonwheel.
Rock me Shawnee any way youfeel.
Hey, shawnee, rock me.
Rock me Shawnee like the windand the rain.
Rock me Shawnee like achoo-choo train.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
I need you to cut him off.
He's way too into that.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Rock me, Producer Shawn everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
What's up, buddy?
I was right there.
I was hovering over the bootbutton.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
It was right there to get the hook in there and get
it out.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I was hovering over the button yeah, listen.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Uh, I feel really good about my dedication in
season three.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Dina is like completely butchering her, her
camera frame right now, likeyeah, in the middle of hold on,
I was freaking out because inthe middle of daniel introducing
her, she's like adjusting hercamera and like moving things
around and I can hear her armrubbing against her microphone
and I'm like, oh God, is shegoing to recover in time?
Earlier she smacked hermicrophone because there was a

(02:55):
bug on it.
And it went like really loudlyand me and Daniel jumped.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
But to be fair, Dina, you've had a little bit of a
day.
Why don't we pull back thecurtains?
Let let people into your home.
What just happened?
What did you just experience?

Speaker 4 (03:10):
like five minutes ago yeah, so like nine o'clock hit
when we're supposed to record.
I was on the toilet and I had.
I was taking pee and as Ipulled down my pants, leaving
pants cheeks touched porcelainand I said that's a weird
looking hair, that's a fuckingrattlesnake and we had to catch

(03:35):
and wrangle a rattlesnake whileI was supposed to be in the
studio.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Listen, let's not play this easy.
How were you attempting to getthis rattlesnake?

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Dina Just trying to grab it and Tim came in and he
was like move, I've got glovesand tongs.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
You know I'm not up on my rattlesnake lore, sean,
but baby rattlesnakes are themost poisonous.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Am I right?
I mean I assume so they havethe freshest venom.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Freshest venom.
Yeah, so you're going after themost venomous version of an
incredibly venomous snakebarehanded.
That's so fucking florida, dina.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
I can't with you um, I just all that I was thinking
of was to protect my child thosemom instincts yeah, those mom
checked in and she was like biteme, not the baby I'm like, have
you seen those?
Uh videos of the mom protectingyour child from a bear and like
the mom, literally just like isholding the child back to bear

(04:31):
just to protect the child.
I cry every time, bro yeah andlisten.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Imagine if any of those parenting instincts were
present in this documentary thatwe are about to discuss today.
Guys, um, maybe it'd be lesstraumatic and make us less sad
in this episode.
So for those guys that don'tknow, we normally have fun.
We normally get goofy and getwild and, you know, as our show
says, we don't make it weird,except every so often.

(04:57):
We've got a nice connectionwith cult life, and Dina will
explain about that in a littlebit.
But we are talking about shiny,happy people.
Today we're diving back intothe cult and, uh, this is a
really fucking traumatic episode.
Uh, so be wary, dina.
What?
What do we want to tell thefolks?

Speaker 4 (05:13):
the upcoming discussion delves into topics
related to religious beliefs,strict traditional gender roles,
sexual abuse and practices thatsome may find restrictive or
controversial.
This episode in particular goesheavy on the topic of sexual
abuse, so please practice goodself-care and proceed with
caution if you're sensitive tosuch subjects, or consider
skipping this discussionentirely if it might be

(05:35):
distressing to you.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
And especially in this episode, guys, you are 100%
like practice self-care,because it's going to be a
fucking wild one Before we getto the craz wild one before we
get to the craziness, becausecuba pinot baby yep, this is
gonna be our self-care.
I'm gonna be drinking moonshine, uh, straight out of the mason
jar today.
Uh, sean, if folks want todrink along with us, what are we

(05:58):
doing?

Speaker 1 (06:00):
um oh yeah, we should absolutely segue into talking
about the drinking games beforewe get started.
We have a couple of drinkinggames we play ongoing.
Dina's pissing in her cup rightnow and there might be another
rattlesnake nearby, who knows?
We are members of Buffalo Club.
We practice Buffalo here.
That means we use our offhandto drink.
We're all right handed.

(06:21):
That means we must use our lefthand for caught.
Using our right hand, we canbuffalo each other, which means
we call each other out and ifyou get caught, you have to
finish your drink.
Um, we also have someparticular bud, but buzzwords
and phrases.
If you hear this, that meanssomeone said one of those things
and dina's camera just died.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh no, she's back there she is.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
If you hear this sound, that means that someone
said one of those buzzwords orphrases and that means we have
to drink Um and uh.
Yeah, play along with us athome responsibly.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, or you know, don't like, just have a bad time
and you know, whatever you wantto do, You're an adult.
We trust you guys, and ifyou're not an adult, why are you
here?
You should not be here.
I feel like we say this everyepisode.
But, guys, we sometimes,sometimes I need you guys to
turn off the lights.
I need you to put on some goodmood music.

(07:21):
I need you to leave yourdisbelief at the door, because
it's time for Dina's.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
I had to burp, sorry.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Girls don't burp False.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, it was just a face fart.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
All right, go on.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I don't know if anybody else has watched the
documentary about nickelodeon,whatever.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Uh, quiet on set uh, I watched like the first episode
of it, yeah so anybody elsenotice, keep it on brand here
that epstein's um island is thesame shape as the nickelodeon
logo go on.
That's it.
That's it.

(08:10):
So so are we saying thatnickelodeon purposely made their
logo to look like epsteinisland?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
yes, why I?

Speaker 3 (08:22):
don't see child sex trafficking.
Well, okay, I'm aware of that,but why is Nicola?
This is my biggest problem withall of these hidden clues and
stuff towards sex trafficking.
If you're doing somethinghighly immoral, highly illegal
and the type of thing that canget you killed or your entire
life and family's life andbusinesses ruined, why would you

(08:46):
try to hide clues for people toto see?
I'm trying to get off on thepower than Dina's phone.
So getting off on like beingable to like fuck with people in
straight sight.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, so when you're that, rich, like money stops
mattering Right.
So what do you what like?
What do you get out of life?

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Power, thumbing your nose at the peasants, that you
can let them.
Okay, that's Jeffrey.
I mean if you rotated it alittle bit, like I can.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
There's also another island off to the side that
matches that dot okay, all right, we're digging deeper in here.
Nickelodeon part of the sextraffic or it could just be like
a jizz splat you know oh oh mygod, daniel, yeah, let's delete

(09:44):
that.
Let's go, let's delete that.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Let's go ahead and delete that whole thing.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
He works with children.
We have to Beep that out.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I'm sorry Sean hates me so much Right now Cause out
of context.
That could be the single worstthing I've ever.
Sean hates me so much right now.
Why did you think?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Because out of context that could be the single
worst thing I've ever said onthis show, not just on this show
.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
What the fuck?
Because it's like it's soabsurd to me that you try, even
though nickelodeon did have alot of cumshot jokes and all
that which is highly weird inretrospect, and a whole other
can of worms I never eventhought about.
But, um, yeah, with nickelodeonmaybe that joke hits a little
too close to home here, socomfortable.

(10:40):
So okay, uh, jeffrey epstein ispart of the Illuminati that is
thumbing their nose at thepeasants in plain sight and
Nickelodeon is getting in on itto let you know that you have no
power and control and thatchildren and innocence has no
place here in America.
Is that what, the generalTikTok, we're going for?
Sure.

(11:00):
Excellent, excellent.
Sean, how true do you rate this, this conspiracy?

Speaker 4 (11:09):
10 out of 10 lightly plausible listen.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Your last one still rocks my world the ways like
fucking uh app.
Because now I've started goingmy own way on purpose just to
see if I can save time and everytime like, yeah, I, I'm now
fighting the machine.
And out of all the conspiracytiktoks we've done that one
still blows my mind yeah, and Ican't.
I saved myself nearly 10minutes today, because I didn't

(11:37):
follow the gpa yeah 10 minutes,yeah, I wanted me to take 41,
like one or two.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Instead of just taking the main highway.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
There you go.
Dina's getting wins everywherehere, guys.
So I have a question, sean likeare we allowed to have a quick
shower thought?

Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's up to Dina.
She's piloting this ship today,dina how quick is it?
I mean, it's already too long.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, all right, we won't get in the shower, guys,
we're gonna stay like the saharadesert out there guys.
So, guys, we're gonna be jumpinginto discussing shiny, happy
people.
This is our third timediscussing it and we have a

(12:36):
little bit of a history, um,with colts and stuff like that.
Uh, before we describe what theshow is about, dina, tell us a
little bit about, kind of.
For the folks that this ismaybe their first episode, maybe
they don't fully understand,give them a little bit of your
history and how it relates towhat we're going to be talking
about.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, so I grew up in the IFB Independent Fundamental
Baptist Organization.
I was involved in threeseparate IFB churches and
there's a lot of corruption, alot of abuse, and this
particular episode is going tofocus on the sexual abuse, just
like it did in shiny, happypeople.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
And uh, sean, what is shiny happy people?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Uh, it's a limited television documentary on Amazon
prime video, not a sponsor um,about the Duggar family who
became famous on TLC with their19 kids and counting show and
its relationship with theInstitute and basic life
principles, the IBLP.
This came out last year, abouta year ago, and we're on episode

(13:35):
three of the four part series.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
And IFB and IBLP are very closely related not quite
the same thing, but independentfundamental baptists um and the
duggar family was idolized inthe if yeah, so I mean, it's
definitely very adjacent, evenif they don't, uh, aren't
technically under the same likefinancial umbrella.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Um, they're hanging out with each other at the
barbecue.
Is that what we're saying?
yeah, yeah, like we would go tothe same camps, and yeah, they
fucking they'd just be fuckingunder the table um, and so in
the last episode that we talkedabout, we, we really got into um
kind of what happened with joshduggar and then a lot of what

(14:18):
the actual mechanics of insideof like the control elements
inside of the church, um, youknow, we got into eye traps,
courting, um, a lot of therelationship type of stuff and,
uh, kind of a general idea ofhow they do control.
We kind of touched on paulgothard a little bit.
But episode three is wherereally starts.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
You're talking yeah, you keep saying, paul, it's bill
we finally get into billgothard and um we talked about
paul.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Now we're going to talk about bill and a little
little paul bill.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I don't want to talk about steve um, but uh, you know
, give us a little bit.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Uh, the the quick rundown of what happened in this
episode sean yeah, so, um, itreally starts with focusing on
authority and how like in powerkind of flex, that to keep
people in control.
Focusing a little bit on howJill and her husband were

(15:17):
basically manipulated intostaying on the show and tricked
into signing contracts that madethem legally committed to
staying on for no pay, and we'llget into that, I'm sure.
Um, it kind of focused on how,like even jim, how how jim bob
was like portrayed as like alovable kind of like, uh, like a

(15:38):
goofy kind of like a lovabledude they almost portray the
dads in these families like agoofy, lovable cuck.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Like you know, just he just adores and loves his
wife.
I'm like you'll do anything for, but like behind the scenes,
they're jackasses.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, and he never.
He's never not smiling oncamera, he's never angry, he's
never raising his voice oranything.
He's always looking like he'shappy, go lucky and he's just
like this lovable dude, um.
But we learned that behind thescenes he was kind of the
puppeteer of the entire familyand he was taking all the money

(16:13):
from tlc and none of the kidswere getting paid for their
years and years of work andcontributions to the tv show
some of their adults were takingfood from food banks, while
this fucking guy's a millionaire.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Sorry, sorry, we're still doing it.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
And how that power dynamic really makes people feel
like they have no choice,especially when it has to do
with family.
And then it spirals into sexualallegations against specific
powerful men in the organization, mostly about bill Um and uh,

(16:49):
that whole snowballing thingwhere people kind of looked at
him at like he was Jesus or thePope or whatever.
So no one really questioned itIf he was seen being
inappropriate or anything.
They were just like, oh well,he's like an important person
and he would never do anythingwrong.
Um, we'll get into that too.
And um, he's like an importantperson and he would never do
anything wrong.
We'll get into that too.
And basically, how feeling likeyou're under authority by

(17:12):
powerful men can lead you tobeing victimized and not knowing
what to do.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
The, the rules put in place are specifically designed
so that victims of theseassaults are not supposed
accountable.
And and before we dive intothis, uh, every time we do the
cult episode, I just like togive like a quick other shout
out we are not anti-religionhere on this podcast we have.
You know, I'm jewish.
Dina's christian sean has hisown belief system.
Um, you know we are veryopen-minded in a very uh, you
know, pro, do what you do way.

(18:13):
What we are going to be doingthis episode is mocking
extremism, mocking this absolutebatshit, insane authority.
We have no problem with actualreligion and people who are
using it to better their lives.
So I don't want people to feellike this is an attack.
This is an attack on people whoabuse religion in the name of
um and dean.
I know you have some kind offeelings.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Before we jump into this, yeah, this, that that was
actually a good thanks forhitting it over here.
Um, so yeah, real quick, I justwant to like be because we're
going to talk a lot about purityculture and sexual deviance
within the IFB, iblp, whateverand I want to be like super

(18:52):
crystal clear and authentic andI don't want to behave a
critical because I am aChristian.
I believe in respecting whateverybody else believes and I
like approaching people based onwhat they believe and
respecting that, no matter whatit is, even if I disagree, like
I'm not gonna.
I don't argue with people abouttheir beliefs.
I believe that purity culture inand of itself is good, but I

(19:19):
think that that's because Ibelieve that having sex outside
of marriage I believe that it'ssin.
I don't think you should do it.
Other people if they think thatthey should, or whatever, go
ahead, do it.
I don't care.
That's not my problem, not mybusiness, and I'm not going to
judge you for it either.
I'll support whatever youbelieve in, but I think that
purity culture gets used inreally gross, horrible ways.
So the actual act of purityculture and how it is taught and

(19:49):
how it is portrayed and justingrained into people, I think
that is what is absolutelydisgusting and gross and wrong,
because how it's done in the ifbtotally wrong.
Saving yourself for marriage Idon't have a problem with that.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
but yeah, purity culture bad, yeah and and I
think that there's a differencebetween having the freedom of
choice to either save yourselfor not save yourself and having
that choice taken away, and Ithink that that's the biggest
difference here in what we'll bediscussing.
And, like we said at thebeginning, this is going to be a
difficult episode.

(20:19):
There's a lot of kind of darkstuff and you know I try not to
get riled up and get on thesoapbox.
We can actually have adiscussion, but, man, this was
probably one of the, if not themost difficult episode for me to
watch personally.
Um, and and a lot of it startswith just the absolute control
and authority.
You see, dina, do you want totalk a little bit about what the

(20:39):
umbrella of authority is?

Speaker 4 (20:41):
yeah, so they describe in the umbrella of
authority is where in the IBLPand the IFB, you have God as the
ultimate authority I agree withthat and then you have a father
and then you have like themother and then children.
So father is head of the family, no matter what.
Mom is not technically on anequal playing field.

(21:01):
In the IFB you have mostcommonly though they don't say
it you have god, pastor, father,mother, children and and the.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
And the weird part is too is that you know, to be
very clear, like the mother ison the very end of the umbrella,
like she's still getting alittle bit of rain on her, she's
still like the hair is stillgetting wet, I mean, she's
technically maybe got like a toeunderneath it.
Because one of the weird thingsfor me too is, like you know,
they talked about that, like allthese different programs, these
different compounds andfacilities that they had, that

(21:35):
whoever was in charge was theoldest male there yeah, oh yeah,
I almost added that and I don'tknow.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
My brain threw it out like once her, her male
children, reach a certain age,she's listening to them like
she's not.
She's no longer because he's aman of god now and he can tell
her what to do, not like go toyour room, but like he then
becomes a guide and like anauthority that she looks to for

(22:02):
her religion.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
At that point, once he's older, especially if he's
left alone as the oldest man,and and what it creates is this
insane system and this is thebiggest thing that you'll notice
and why, especially you know,this gets to us classified as a
cult, is that every one of theseparticipants, the people, that
the people who make up thechurch, not the leaders, not the

(22:25):
, you know, people in the thatare the decision makers, but the
actual people that are in thecult, they're all poor, they're
typically uneducated, they're inplace Typically didn't say all.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
They also act poor A lot of times.
Yes, like people like Jim Bobwill act poor of times.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yes, like people like jim, bob will act poor they.
They're poor because they theypay for these overpriced fucking
religious programs that theysend their children to, even
when they can't afford it andthen they're forced to live on
fucking food stamps and givetheir money to the church and
yeah, yep, so they can have thatprivate jet and that extra
house and that extra facility.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
You know we're talking about.
These people are on food stampsat food banks.
I mean the Duggars they eventalked about in the first
episode before they made it bigand they were on the show.
I mean they were.
You know, if kids eat free at arestaurant, they were at that
restaurant so they could feedtheir entire family.
These are not, um, wealthypeople joining these churches
and it allows them to be takenadvantage of because they're

(23:23):
desperate, they need thesethings, and so then it gets
sorry, go on no, I I interruptedyou.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
I'm sorry I, I was just thinking like I think that
it's.
They prey on these poorerfamilies because they're so
desperate to look for happinessand they can't get it and
they're like, oh, this everybodyat this church is happy.
They've practiced their fuckingsmile.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Of course they look happy yeah, oh and, and they'll
feed you after church andthey'll talk about like we
talked about before, how theywould take them to get dentist
work done and things like thatand.
And that's how they trap youand they force you to rely on
them.
And one of the things that wesaw in this episode is how these
kids at a young age, basically,were fully exploited free child

(24:05):
labor.
They were indentured servants16-hour days to build houses, to
do this masonry work, to learnthis vocational stuff.
They're taught education isunnecessary.
You don't need to go to collegehere, work 16-hour days so we
can build this new churchfacility.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Oh, and that was so common too.
Like none of the men, men, theboys that were in the cults that
I was in they didn't getcollege degrees, they don't have
real jobs.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
They're like job hopping, doing construction work
, like working for the church,because they, they are left with
nothing into adulthood yeah,and I think that that's the part
that messes with me the most isthat, like, think about these
duggar kid.
Like all these 20 plus Duggarkids, they don't have
appreciable skills.
Their family's income was basedon this show, so when this show

(24:54):
went away, what are they leftwith?

Speaker 1 (24:59):
The exploitation of their daughters, who just had to
lie on television and telleveryone that their older
brother didn't molest them andthen they had to be the stars of
a new show because the originalshow was canceled.
So they were they kind of hadtheir arm bent into not only
like lying to everyone about howthey were victims of sexual

(25:20):
abuse, covering for theirbrother and their family, but
then like completely exploitedand not get a dime of whatever
was paid out by tlc and Iactually know several girls that
were sexually exploited ormolested, some even raped, that
had to publicly apologize infront of the church, or at least

(25:44):
in front of leaders, fortempting men eye traps eye traps
, baby and like, and I thinkthat's the part that really like
in the beginning, like reallymess with me is that they get
away with it because it's underthe guise of religion, because
it's for the church.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
They're learning to do this stuff, so in the eyes of
the law, this isn't a big deal.
This isn't illegal.
This is just building character, building strong boys, but none
of them see the benefits oftheir own work and they, they
are so reliant they don't, andthat's what keeps them in the
cycle of poverty, of desperation.
Is that, like your one friendthat we had on the the, you know

(26:23):
a lost episode, and we talkedabout how you said she's gone
missing, right?

Speaker 4 (26:26):
yeah, I haven't heard from her anything.
I don't know what's going on,like I don't know she went back.
I don't, I don't know she ran.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
I have no idea and that thing is that if you are
not under this church umbrella,you can't survive in the secular
world.
You don't have any skills, youreducation has been homeschooled
or through this Gothard program, and so you are left that this
is your one option, right?

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yeah, and you know it's crazy because I don't
understand how they get awaywith this under the guise of the
Bible, because the Bible evensays that the laborer is worth
his wage.
And they're sitting thereexploiting children for To get
like and I get it.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
It like volunteer work is great, but like uh yeah,
it was more like your paymentwas your opportunity to serve,
like that's how it was like noyou work 16 hours a day and you
do all this manual labor and youwere just expected to serve

(27:29):
just for the benefit of servingalone.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, there's there was nothing to it and, like you
know and you want to, what wasweird?
Because, like, let's dive intoa little bit of the Duggar
finances, so none of the kidsgot paid out.
Well, definitely none of thegirls got paid out.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
The kids didn't even know what the payouts were
apparently like.
They were like trying to figureout what jim bob got paid and
he was just like how's 10, 10 anhour sound?
Yeah.
And this was like after theygot no money for like almost a
decade and they were finallylike hey, listen, we, we can't
survive, we have no money.
We're like going to food banks,like can we get paid for this?

(28:07):
Like can you help us pay themedical bills from the birth of
our child?
Like how much do you want?

Speaker 4 (28:15):
I can give you ten dollars an hour, the birth of
our child, that you recordedwithout us like, without our
consent they specifically saidthey didn't want any cameras in
there.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
And so tlc comes back and says, all right, fine man,
we won't put a cameraman inthere, it's cool, just take
these cameras, do it yourself.
And so, despite them wanting noone in the room and wanting
this to be a completely privatething, they had to have cameras
everywhere and the whole fuckingthing documented like that's
crazy.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
I can't imagine shitting myself and my husband
being like like stop.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
See me at my absolute worst moment in my life and
let's do it for likes.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Absolutely and like get no money.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, so TLC, if you hadn't watched the episode, they
they reach out to TLC said hey,so we recorded, despite we
didn't want to.
Could you um like?
Just help us with the hospitalbill yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and they're like yeah,you're going to take it up with
your dad.
They were like we already paid.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Your dad got the money, hey man.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
And it's such a disrespectful amount.
Yeah, we could, I could an hourlike.
I'd rather just not even beoffered like to get paid like
even in Arkansas.
$10 an hour in this day and ageis so disrespectful from the
man.
That was also what he ran as amillionaire and like he was a

(29:36):
politician, to like it yeah noand like, and I think that
that's like something I kind ofgo back to that like messes with
me over the course of thisentire episode is that if Josh
Duggar doesn't fuck up, if JoshDuggar is one of the church
people that is able to keep alid on it, that keeps his shit
quiet enough, like if he was abetter, sick, fucking criminal.

(30:00):
Like I don't think any of thesegirls are out.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
No, and you know, what's also crazy Is there was
one line that they said in theepisode where Jim Bob wanted to
give them money because the boyswanted to start up some
businesses.
That business was Josh'sdownfall and I often wonder if
because Josh was keeping hischild pornography stash on the

(30:26):
computer in that business.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
I wonder if Jim Bob knew that it couldn't be at the
house and he gave him an out onwhere he could keep it.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
Absolutely.
There's no way a man that was.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Dina's conspiracy corner.
That's another conspiracy.
I'm going to give a 10 out of10 to Dina because I'm with you,
because that man was in suchcontrol, like such control of
every little bit of the thingbehind the scenes.
I mean we already discussedthey knew and try to cover it up
, but there's no way he didn'tknow all along.
There's no fucking way, I'mwith you.
He 100% and like that's thing.

(31:01):
If Josh Duggar doesn't fuck up,if he doesn't get caught, jim
Bob is probably wins thatpolitician seat in arkansas and
he probably advances to higherup because he's got name value,
he's got the christian morals,he's got the wholesomeness
guarantee.
He goes up.
I mean, he still tried to runfor state senate in arkansas,
despite there being an activeinvestigation.

(31:21):
That is fucking bold, bro, likethat's.
What I'm saying is that imaginethis those, if this doesn't
happen, if this domino doesn'tget knocked over, none of this
gets revealed.
We're not talking about this.
The girls are still there.
Probably the reality show isstill going on.
These guys are now going to befully up higher levels of the

(31:41):
government.
I mean, think about that.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
We, even without him running for office.
They had incredible politicalconnections oh yeah, the
Huckabees and Sarah.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Palin, yeah, sarah Palin, yeah, mcgee.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
They had absolutely had connections and political
power through the people thatthey knew, through the church,
and even if he didn't become ordidn't run for office, like they
still would have had that power.
And like I mean parlay thatinto like the fucking government
funded like facilities thatthey talked about, and like how

(32:19):
bill gothard used like tax money, basically that he was eligible
for through some loophole topay for these crazy facilities.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Like the government's just handing out cash to them.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Like what did they say?
Excel and character first andum yeah, all these crazy names,
all these all these crazyfacilities that they claimed had
nothing to do with Bible studyor God and just kind of like
skirted around that um churchand state requirement.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I mean that was like heavily based in that, because
think about how, what an easysell that is if you're a
politician.
You go into your senate chamberand say, hey guys, we want to
put some money down towards thischurch.
We're going to be nice andwholesome here.
Also, these guys, uh, are, youknow, financing us done rubber
stamp, probably not even adiscussion.
You know and like.
And to the cover up thing,because I found the craziest

(33:13):
part is that there's so manyparallels between the Gothard
brothers and what happened withthe Duggar family.
Because think about you knowhow we talk, about how Josh
Duggar doesn't fuck this up,that family still in power,
resources on TV, all all that Imean.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Bill's brother fucked up a million times, 30, 35
years, before Bill was removedfrom the church or from the
organization.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
And not only that, but then they tried to marry him
off to fix it.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, they're like that's going to fix it.
We'll just find him a wife inthe church.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
It wasn't just a wife in the church, guys.
I don't know if you missed thispart.
It was one of his victims.
They tried to make a scandal.
Yeah, they tried to make ascandal.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
That was the whole caveat of that.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Is that they wanted to marry him off to one of his
victims, so it's not a big deal.
They were actually in love,it's fine he married.
He did the right thing.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
He married her and she's not a victim, obviously
because she can't rape your wifeexactly and and like.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
And that's a fucked up part is that bill gothard and
we're gonna.
I want to get really deep intobill here.
Oh god, gross, uh, that's whatshe said.
Um, I want to dive deeper in.
There's no way to say it.
Um we will discuss him furtherin detail.
But, like, because I want totalk a little bit about dina's

(34:39):
experience in this but like oneof the things that like gets me
this guy, his brother, just ismolesting, abusing, assaulting
everyone and everyone in thischurch that he's building, this
multi, 90 million dollar thingslike hey, hey, you, you gotta,
you gotta, cut ties with steveman.
He's like no, no, no, no, I'mgonna bring him to this facility

(35:01):
in new york.
You mean this really beautiful,isolated one that has no
oversight and, uh, he hasabsolute freedom.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's the one that's gonna be the one that's set,
and everyone who's insolent.
They get sent to steve in thisisolated place in new york like
oh yeah, hey, you disrespectedyour dad's authority.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Guess what you get?
To get steved motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Like steve was meeting them all in the prayer
rooms.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
He has more scandals and and Bill's like listen, I
know he's fucked up twicealready, but he's a good guy.
We'll just kind of remove themfrom this one authority position
to another one.
It'll be totally cool and we'llmarry him off to a victim
that's exactly what happenedwhen that all fell through and
they finally pressured him toboot steve out of the

(35:53):
organization.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
He was like okay, okay, okay, I'll ask him to
leave.
But now there's a new rule.
It's like the anti-gossip ruleyeah, we found it matthew
matthew 18, yeah, or somethingyeah you're not allowed to do,
to do gossip, which really justmeans you're not allowed to
publicly accuse anyone.
Someone did something to you,you're supposed to only accuse

(36:14):
them personally and privately,so that no one else knows about
it.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
So, dina, next time you accuse me of giving bad hugs
, I'm going to quote Matthew 18at you, because that's not OK.
That's accusations, that'ssalacious.
And I will not stand for it.
I'm spreading gossip.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
I actually grew up in that culture like the Matthew 2
18, is that it?
Yeah that's Matthew 2.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
18 is the culture that I grew up in and like
that's and that's another thingthat just messes with me and
fucks me up is like his bigpunishment is that.
Hey, listen bro, like Iguarantee I don't, I haven't
followed up on Steve.
I guarantee he left and lived avery comfortable, very lavish
life, faced zero consequences.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
Guarantee he did continue to do creepy shit off
the radar, don't worry.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.
There's no punishment, there'sno real punishment for all of it
.
All it is is like hey, man, youjust got to get out of the
public face now, but you'regoing to live a very comfortable
, happy life.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
That's what happened with the goat fucker.
Was his punishment what?
After abusing his wife, locking?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
her in closets.
Tell him who the goat fucker isfirst.
Let's not keep inside jokes toourselves.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
I thought that I had talked about the goat fucker
before in here.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Oh you have, but for the audience, I want you to give
us a quick refresh on who thegoat fucker is.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Okay, goat fucker.
He went to the third cult thatI was in and he got married to a
girl from Bible College and heabused her heavily and he abused
, abused their children.
I think they had two children.
Um, his dad was the musicdirector and so therefore his

(37:54):
family was like prestigious,high up, and his wife found out
that, like he had fucked a goator something and not or
something, he fucked a goatallegedly um allegedly, I heard,
they were married, so that'sokay he did the right thing by
the goat.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Okay, like the goat's , not a victim guys um, and she
was.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
She ran away, but she was also like, talked about on
from the pulpit, like, andcalled a horrible person and a
sinner and a harlot and she lefther family.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
What are we even doing here?

Speaker 4 (38:32):
yeah, I'm pretty sure he's still there I couldn't
find him on facebook to followup, like to see where his life
was at.
And then I found out it'sbecause I blocked him.
So I'm just gonna have to likecreate a fake facebook, I guess,
and figure out what's yeah,that's the only solution.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Not use minor Sean's Facebook to look them up, but
you use a fake one.
Can you help me?
Out here, yeah, I got papertrail.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
I don't want to goat fucker paper trail, I want to
get a friend request.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Hey bro, I heard you're into goats and they want
to want to want to do thistogether, man.
But all right, so talk to alittle bit about because you
were under this umbrella ofauthority, you're, you know.
Thankfully, your man holdingthe umbrella was a good person,
so your experience was differentthan others, but you were still

(39:20):
subject to these issues andthese authorities, especially if
your dad was not present inchurch.
Like what was that like growingup for you?

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, um, I always like I mean I still like dads,
dads are in charge of the family, like that's that I feel like
that's normal.
But I view moms is very muchequal now too.
Um, but it was very mucheverything had to go by dad
Except with the IFB.
Like Everything had to go bydad except with the IFB.
Like there was a littlefriction in our family because

(39:48):
my dad was going to be in chargeof our family no matter what,
but in the IFB the pastor wantscontrol and that's kind of what
always saved us, honestly, wasthat my dad was not going to
give a pastor control as much ashe tried, and a lot of times,
like my mom would even I thinkit was just the culture that we
were in.
A lot of times, like my momwould even I think it was just

(40:09):
the culture that we were in.
She would comply with ourculture and like go to the
pastor and like listen to thepastor over my dad and it caused
a lot of tension and frictionand like I did it sometimes too,
where I would just go to theman of authority, the pastor, if
dad wasn't there and it becamevery much like where pastor was
father figure and for some girlsI was lucky I was not molested

(40:33):
that I'm aware of at all.
But some girls that fatherfigure turned into some daddy
issues that were not mutuallyconsensual and it was just power
that was used and abused.
Because when a man that is notyour father or stepdad or
somebody that's going to bethere to protect you, gets power

(40:54):
over you, they use and abusethat, especially in that purity
culture environment where itthey're suppressed and repressed
and all that they know is tojust pop off.
And I kind of want to touch onsomething that you just said
here.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Just pop off on those instincts, and I kind of want
to touch on something that youjust said here, because you've
said it before and it'ssomething that is really
interesting and equal partsdepressing is that you know,
when you've talked about how, toyour knowledge, you've not been
molested or assaulted growingup.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah so.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
I don't have people.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
I don't have any memory of being molested at all,
but I do have memories where,like I don't know what happened,
I don't know why, like I don'tremember, why I don't remember
situations and I don't, and likeI was alone with the pastor of
our first cult, a lot went totheir house, a lot and I, I just
don't, I don't know, so I can'tsay no, he definitely didn't,

(41:47):
because like there's a part ofme where I'm like I can't be the
only girl, because literallyevery other girl, but I don't
remember and that's the partthat that that is really
difficult and really, I think,illustrates the difficulty of
this whole culture, of this uh,movement, is that, listen, I
mean we trust your memories.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Obviously you know, I believe you when you say that
absolutely nothing happened.
But because you're so aware ofwhat happens in these cultures,
in these environments, becauseyou know people that have been
abused and stuff you can't saywith 100 certainty, yeah, and
that tells you how prevalent andhow institutionalized this type

(42:27):
of abuse and behavior was, isthat there's no way that you,
that you can't even trust yourown memory.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
Yeah and that's, but that's what it does is like,
because the girl, like all ofthese girls, like they said in
the documentary, like this isthe man of power and, like it
happens, they're so naive andunaware of what sex is, what
their sexual organs are, thatthey don't know when they've
been molested.

(42:53):
I think like the Ken's dickstory or whatever.
I kind of knew about body partsat that point, but I didn't
know, what sex was Like in thesegirls.
They get abused and they getmolested and the boys know what
they're doing and these girlshave no idea.
They don't know that they cansay no.
They don't know why they shouldsay no other than virginity.

(43:16):
Is this thing that they have tokeep, no matter what, even
though they're uneducated aboutthat decision, which I think
that they should be educatedabout that decision?
That's what I meant earlier,like you should be educated
about that decision.
And if you decide to stay avirgin until you're married,
good.
If you decide not to, okay,that's your decision.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Exactly, the choice is the key.
Yeah, Cause I have no problemwith anyone, you know, obviously
I I come from a more liberalbackground.
When it comes to sex andsexuality, Um and and it's
something that you know I havedifferent viewpoints than you
know, Dina, on it, but that'sfine.
The biggest thing that we bothagree on is that the choice is
what matters.
It doesn't matter what like andI'm the same way.

(43:55):
I don't care if you wait tillmarriage.
I don't care if you decide tobe celibate your whole life.
Do whatever you want to do, aslong as what you want, yeah, and
that not someone else is makingthat choice for you.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
You know, what I mean yeah and in like it, or like
telling you you can't havetampons because that's.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
I have a tampon story .

Speaker 1 (44:15):
It takes that pleasure away from your future
husband.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Yeah, please tell us your tampon story, dina.
So we're here for tampons.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Um, yeah, I was very much.
Um, yeah, I was very much.
I hate, I was very much raisedwhere you had to wear pads.
That was all you had, and Idon't think period underwear had
even been invented yet andtampons were going to steal your
virginity, cause pleasure,because that body part was for a

(44:44):
man's penis only.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Nothing else goes in there.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Devil sticks, I think .
I don't think I ever heard thatand I think I missed it in the
doc, but anyway, um, yeah, I hadthis friend who I think she had
endometriosis.
Her flow was like really awful,she was miserable.
We were at a um youth event ata river house, um, by one of the
rich families that pretends tobe poor, and I want my hat back,

(45:12):
thank you um give her herfucking hat back.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Guys, give her the fucking hat right now me and
sean will fucking find me,fucking find you, fucking find
me.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
Fucking find you.
She wanted to swim and youcan't swim if you're wearing a
pad.
I don't think I never tried.
It Sounds like it would be areally bad idea.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I mean, I feel like physically you can, but it's not
the best idea.
It doesn't physically stop youfrom getting in the water Like
implode, though it's like alittle force field.
It might not go well for you isall I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
So she got a tampon.
I don't know how, I don'tremember how, but like she
pulled me into the bathroom andshe was like I have this and I
want to go swimming and I waslike, ah, like you can't have
that your husband.
Yeah, this one swimming husband, you 16 year old innocent woman
who just wants to swim um, andwe spent like 30 minutes in the

(46:13):
bathroom trying to hype her upto just try to put in a tampon
because she was so scared and Iwas scared for her.
I don't blame her, because wewere convinced that we were
going to break our hymen and nolonger be virgins and what if it
did cause?
Sexual pleasure, then what?

Speaker 3 (46:31):
yeah, what if she just orgasms right fucking there
on the floor?

Speaker 4 (46:35):
that's gonna be so awkward like what are you?

Speaker 3 (46:36):
gonna do in a whole lot of trouble because her mom
found the tampon, because shenever got to try it or anything,
but yeah like can you justimagine, like I just imagine,
like this is how like the guy islike, like how the church like
pictures, like how this goesdown, like it's there, it's the
wedding night everyone's waited,it's about to be the big moment
.
He puts it in.
He goes the fuck.
This is tampon sized.

(46:57):
You're not a virgin.
How dare you like so?

Speaker 4 (47:05):
also one thing that like I would love to know,
because like we're educated andwe know science.
This has always stuck with meand I got really dirty looks for
saying this at a dinner once,um with cult adjacent people and
I was like how would he knowthat she is a virgin?
Because, at the end of the day,a woman can fake it.
We don't all bleed take thosekegels dude so.

(47:30):
But I got really dirty looks andlike I wonder how the IFB
handled that, because obviouslyI did not lose my virginity in
the IFB with an IFB man.
So I wonder how they handled itif, like, a man was expecting
blood and there was no blood.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
So at least I can tell you, historically, when
things of like and I don't knowspecifically with ifb and I'm
just talking about like, likeanecdotal things that I've heard
from like cultures, likethroughout history, is there to
be things like women to makesure that they seem like a
virgin, on with you know, theyhave like a little vial that
they would break, you know, tomake sure that there was like
blood on the bed.
Um, there's all sorts ofdifferent things that, yeah,

(48:06):
there's all sorts of things thatthey would do to at least make
it appear, because, again, youknow, everyone's body is
different.
Even someone who's an absolutevirgin might not like, you know,
yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
What that's crazy.
People are so fuckinguneducated.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Oh yeah, 100%.
And like it's always funny tome because it's like people are
so fucking uneducated.
Oh yeah, 100%.
And like it's always funny tome because it's like do they
think like a vagina is likememory foam, where, like, as
soon as one thing's imprinted,on it.
It's like yeah, so, dina, yourvagina will never reshape again
it is molded only for Timothy's,all of those.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
Never mind, that was crossing a line, no, okay.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
What Nope.
Now I want to know, Dina.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
We might have to cut it out.
We might have to cut that oneout.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
God damn it, Dina.
Thank you for joining me.
We cope with humor.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
We cope with humor.
Should we talk about billgothard and the?

Speaker 3 (49:08):
the events that kind of led to his dismissal from the
organization yes and and listen, I want to dive a little bit
before we get into theallegations and stuff.
A little bit about what afucking weirdo this guy's just
general life is.
Slash was like beyond thereligious stuff, like he's not a

(49:31):
normal person, which I knowfeels like an understatement of
the year.
But like, think about it.
Like first of all and that'sone of the things I hate about
these guys have become thesemega fit famous like pastor
stuff because we talked aboutlike the, the voice that like
the women are supposed to have,and then we talked about how jim
bob is always supposed to smile.
These guys, whether it's joelaustin, whether it's gothard,
whether it's that other, who'sother satanic looking

(49:52):
motherfucker, sean, that uh, oh,I know who you're talking about
, yeah, and then he got allcrazy about his private jet um
kenneth copeland.
There he is, that might be themost evil man in all of
existence, but um, they all tryto like, have this, like I am
both peaceful, wise, but alwaysgentle and happy.

(50:14):
They've always got this littlesmirk on their face and this
little let me tell you about theLord and this whole thing that
seems like they have it alltogether, that they're kind and
they're gentle.
And this guy, he never marriedy'all, he didn't marry, he never
had kids.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
You know, I got a problem.
So I got to say this with alittle bit of leniency, because
my current pastor I have a lotof respect for him and I don't
say that lightly, because Idon't respect pretty much every
pastor that I meet I got aproblem with pastors that don't
have a wife and kids Mine doesnot, but I know his background

(50:53):
and his story and I respect that.
Yeah, but I got a problem withit if they're guiding families
and they have no children.
Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yes, Because there's so many things that, especially
now that you know, becausethere's so many things that,
especially now that you knowyou're a parent, you're part of
the parent club with us and andit's not, you know, knocking
people who aren't parents.
I mean, yeah, why do you havechildren?
Um, and it's not knockingpeople that don't have kids.
I mean, listen, dude, there's alot of common sense, uh,
adulting, that you can do evenif you don't have kids, about
what's right and what's wrong.
But like there's some shit youjust don't get unless you're a

(51:22):
parent.
You know what I mean.
Like there's and like to bedictated by a guy that's never
had any of that.
And like you know, it's onething if you're a buddhist monk
or if you're a catholic andyou're dedicated your life to
your faith and you're not gonnado anything except for god or
whatever, but in the baptismworld that's not a requirement,
man, that's not even anythingthat is necessary, like he and

(51:46):
he never even tried to say, well, I do this to be closer to god,
like he's not even trying to be, like I'm married to jesus type
of thing.
This motherfucker just wantedzero attachments yeah, yeah.
And that only leads credence tohow much of a creep that this
guy was.
At the end of it, 30 peoplecame forward.
15 people tried to put a um youknow lawsuit together.

(52:10):
That fell through because ofstatute of limitations.
But they.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
There was a lot of chilling firsthand testimony
from women who were formerly apart of these organizations
experiences with um bill gothardpersonally and how they were
basically hand selected by himand um he like rooms to believe
that their fathers didn't careabout them and that he's the

(52:38):
only one who loves them.
And like would schedule theseweird recurring like private
prayer sessions where he'd geton the floor with them and like
touch them inappropriately inthe name of prayer.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Or they'd be driving.
They'd be driving and like tobe like, oh yeah, whoever's
sitting next to him, he mighthave their hand up, their skirt,
oh yeah, and no one like it wasjust normal.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
No one thought it was abnormal for him to do it,
cause he's basically.
What did they describe?
One girl described him as theultimate celebrity, like God and
the Pope and Justin Bieber allrolled into one yeah.
So no one's gonna.
No one's going to question hisauthority or his decisions and
the arrogance to do that infront of members of your church,

(53:18):
let alone in private.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Dude, they get off on it, though, like it's the power
thing.
When you have that much money,what do you get off on power?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
and they talked about that.
He was constantly basicallyjust trying to test his
boundaries to see at what pointpeople would be like bro, you,
you gotta fucking stop.
And it took a lot, and that'sthe thing that you know.
You know that there's morevictims there's 30 that came
forward, 30 that came forward.
There's so many more that hesilenced that he did Cause, if
you knew, he knew what hisbrother was doing and he was

(53:49):
okay with that, he was doing thesame fucking shit, dude.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I'm sure he was okay with it because it kind of took
the heat off of him so like oh,that's Steve, I'm nothing like
him.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
And like he got kicked out like seven years
before the final kickout, likeseven years before the final
kick out, but because there wassuch a big power struggle to get
to take his spot, he was ableto worm his way back in.
His fucking enemies fought eachother and he was able to get
back in that's exactly whathappened with the?

Speaker 1 (54:21):
first there was.
There was there's.
For every like person who makesallegations, there's another 20
or 30 people who are loyalfollowers and would never
believe it or not support theirpastor or whatever.
Um, and you know, people areroomed to listen to the male

(54:45):
authority, room to listen to themale authority and um, he just
kind of twisted that into likethis is how you react when
you've been accused of somethingyou didn't do and like, turned
it into a religious lessoninstead of taking responsibility
for what he was being accusedof.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
And that's my biggest issue with so much extremism
man, and this is any faith, anyreligion, because the craziest
part is, it doesn't matter ifyou're christian, jewish muslim,
when you hit that, my biggestissue with so much extremism,
man, and this is any faith, anyreligion, because the craziest
part is, it doesn't matter ifyou're christian, jewish muslim,
when you hit that highest levelof extreme, all these practices
, all these beliefs are all thesame fucking thing.
It's all that power over women,it's that control, it's that

(55:21):
authority, it's that listen.
You know what do they, whatthey talk about, that you need
to listen and just obeyimmediately, don't question.
They want you in this authoritystructure that if you say jump,
you immediately jump to obey,obey, obey triggered I was.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
That was literally exactly what I grew up hearing
from my parents.
My dad, specifically, was if Isay, jump you jump, you ask
questions later.
However, he always taught me toquestion other authority, like
he always said that for him,which I think that you should
still question.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
But then he.
That's the difference, rightthere.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Is that most people say when I say jump you jump,
your dad said when I say jumpyou jump, I'll explain why after
the fact.
Yeah, and if a person's notwilling to explain why and have
a conversation, then that'sprobably not a good fucking
direction I just thought it wasinteresting that the way that
everything finally came crashingdown on him was that website.

(56:23):
Oh, the falling grace.
Recovering grace, recoveringgrace, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
For, like, basically for people who were negatively
affected by IBLP, who, likewould go on there and publish
articles and like share theirstory.
And then, like, suddenly othervictims were finding this and
being, like wait a minute, thathappened to me.
And then that's how thatsnowballed and like just reminds
you about how the churchprogram is designed around

(56:52):
completely preventing that fromhappening.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Silence.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
They don't want any.
Yeah, that's Matthew.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Daniel asked me to prepare this.
Yes, yes.
And I thought it was relevantto this this moment a clip from
south park.

Speaker 5 (57:10):
I specifically didn't watch it in our chat, yep and
south park is usually spot onyeah, it is, and that's the sad
part no, thank you for finallyorganizing an all-priest meeting
.
Father maxi, I think we allagree something has to be done
quickly.
Well, I don't know how it'sbeen for all of you, but
attendance at my church in FortRollins is down 63%.

(57:31):
I'm down almost 70 in Greenleaf, but, yes, I'm afraid if things
keep going the way they are, wecould lose our entire religion.
Yes, we've got to stop theseboys from going to the public.
They've got to know how to keeptheir mouths shut Right.
And so, wait a minute what?
Yes, but we've got to find outwhy these children are suddenly
finding it necessary to reportthat they're being molested.
Stop the problem at its source.

(57:53):
Yes, but how?
Yeah, I don't know what Whoa,whoa hold on a second.
The problem is that children arebeing molested, not that
they're reporting it.
How do you mean?
Well, I mean, obviously, whatwe need to understand is all the
sexual misconduct that isallowed to take place in our
churches, not just tell thechildren, not to tell anybody

(58:15):
about it.
I mean right, or did any of thechildren you've molested come
forward?
No, that's good.
No, I mean, I never molestedany of the children in my church
.
It's okay, father Maxie, we'reall priests here the doors are
closed.
My church, it's okay, fathermaxi, we're all priests here the
doors are closed.
Or, for the love of god, areyou all saying that you've
engaged in inappropriaterelations with your altar boys?
We are here to bring the lightof god, not harm the innocent.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I'm serious okay I think that says what it needs to
say okay, story time though.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
Yeah, please, the second cult that we.
We actually got kicked out ofthe second cult because my dad
was um a treasurer.
Everybody knows what that isright like.
That's a common term okay hewas the treasurer and um.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
He caught the pastors he hid the treasure for pirates
.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Sorry yeah, he's the one who dug the hole and put the
x over it, okay um, they werein a meeting with the deacons
himself and then I don't thinkthe pastor was present, but he
caught a discrepancy in thefinances where he was.
The pastor was stealingthousands and thousands and
thousands of dollars and um,there was also abuse allegations

(59:27):
going on at the time that helike kind of threw in there at
the same time as the moneyallegations and everybody in the
room said basically exactlywhat everybody else was like no,
no, just don't, we don't reportlike, we don't talk about it.
We got to figure out how tokeep it quiet for him.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Nobody finds out about this yeah, it wasn't.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
Wow, that's really bad, like he's stealing money
out of the pockets of our poorand impoverished congregation.
It was no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
How do we not get?

Speaker 4 (59:54):
people to find out.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Like, can you just imagine the first person that's
like, like, like, like, I justimagine they were sitting there
in the room and they're all likeall right, listen, we're
fucking up a lot here, guys.
There's a lot of bad press, alot of bad media.
How do we fix it?
Can we find a bible verse?

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
hey, I remember something from matthew to
something, and that's exactlywhat the ivlp and ifb do yeah
they cherry pick verses insteadof taking an entire section,
which, like I am very adamant asa christian that I will not
attend a church that cherrypicks verses like we're not
doing that shit because it's alltaken out of context and used
as, like a matthew 218 principleyeah, exactly, and and I'm

(01:00:33):
sitting there and I'm like man,like can you just imagine like
you're the guy that's that'ssupposed to be researching, like
all right guys, I need you tofind me a loophole in the bible.
Let's, let's fucking go do that,though like there are literally
meetings of somebody asked methis, help me find a solution,
and they just pick one verse outof context yeah, it's something

(01:00:55):
like, oh, yeah, like, not tomention the erasure of women in
the KJV version of the Bible,but that's a different story.
Oh, 100%.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
I was so bitter when I found out about that and like,
and that's the thing that justis crazy to me, that the
solutions like this has become amulti-million dollar operation,
90 million dollars, and theydon't actually care about the
people, they just don't want themoney to stop and it becomes a
greed thing.
I mean, you know, when theykept on talking about the

(01:01:23):
multiple houses, the planes andstuff, or even you know, in the
fourth episode episode they gointo, like, meeting paul, you
know meeting paul.
Yeah, back to paul, back topaul.
Uh, meeting bill, like laterafterwards.
And you know he still lives inthis house by himself and he has
nothing and no one, but he'sstill uber prepared for this.

(01:01:44):
You, you know, giant meeting,and it's just, it's horrifying
to look at.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
Maybe it's because I'm poor by the way, you can
find my Amazon wish list in thisdescription below I.
Maybe it's because I'm poor,but I don't.
I cannot wrap my brain aroundthe money seeking behavior.
Not because I don't seek moneyI do, I definitely do.
That's.
It's my fault.

(01:02:10):
But they have so much money andnothing to do with it.
And my thing is like I wantmoney so that I can, I want to
take care of my friends, I wantto take care of my family and
that's what I want to do with it.
But they get this money andthey just go fine and don't do
anything with it and like Idon't understand the point.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Well, I mean, they've done studies that, in terms of
just generalities, people likethat are considered in that poor
class are more generous withtheir money than people in the
wealthy class.
Like they donate higherpercentages, they do more
charitable works.
Percentages, they do morecharitable works.
And there's definitelysomething about, once you get to
that richness level, thatyou're there to fucking hoard it
like you're a goddamn dragon,like you're fucking smog from

(01:02:52):
lord from.
Uh, you know the hobbit.
You know you're like, yeah, Ijust want to sit on my pile of
golden influence.
Fuck, actually helping people.
Like I would have less of.
I'd have such a less a problemwith these mega churches and
these giant things if theyactually did, if they put a
higher percentage of their moneyand influence into the
community.
Like I remember duringhurricane katrina wasn't it

(01:03:13):
again our boy, joel austin?
They're like, hey, man, we needto like put refugees somewhere.
You got this giant church.
And he's like, yeah, I'm not gofuck yourself.
I'm not opening these doors tothe poor.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
I'm sorry, who I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Jesus, well known for you know making it rain,
turning people away if they werein need.
Yes, that was Jesus' MO.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Jesus was like listen , keep the poor away from me.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
The poor and the whores.
Jesus wanted nothing to do withthem.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Yep, it's well documented, well documented,
well documented and like.
And that's the thing is that,again, even gothard, just like
his brother, didn't face realconsequences.
He had to step away.
But he's still fucking richdude, he still has a nice house,
he's faced no legal troubles,he's.
He probably goes out in publicand at least maybe not since

(01:04:08):
this documentary but doesn'teven have a fucking problem.
Nothing happened to him and youknow what.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
I'm trying to find a way to tie in my segue.
I don't have a way to segue thispurity culture with men is so
different than it is with womentoo, and that and it really,
really bothers me because I justkeep replaying in my head those
, the girl, that the woman thatsaid, um, she didn't know she

(01:04:41):
could say no, she didn't evenknow that no was a thing because
she didn't know what washappening.
And purity culture is pushed ongirls so much and no
responsibility is given to theman.
Gothard has has built thisempire.
Here's my segue gothard hasbuilt this empire around purity

(01:05:02):
culture, where no man isaccountable for his virginity
and for his actions and his eyesand his brain, but every woman
is responsible for theirs.
Without knowing what it is,they're responsible for it and
yet women have no authority.
So why are we responsible forit if we have no authority?
Because at the end of the day,no, go ahead, no, no.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Because at the end of the day, no, go ahead, no, no,
no.
Because at the end of the day,like and think about how easy it
is, pushed under the rug, likeit starts with everything from
the eye traps to how you dressand stuff.
Because everything about thispurity culture, about the sexual
repression of women, about thiscontrol, again, of women, it's
all designed to control,subjugate and keep you guys from
having any authority Becausethey are.

(01:05:49):
I'm sure we can get into athousand things, but all these
things, it all is.
Think about how easy it is forthe guy to just be forgiven.
Man, if a guy has sex.
Listen, he strayed.
He strayed from the path.
He prayed real hard.
He's going to do a little bitof work, he's going to be fine.
It's not a big deal for thisnon-virginal man to marry Right,

(01:06:11):
it doesn't even think twice.
It's an easily forgiven sinbecause guess what?
Boys will be boys.
We know that they're tempted somuch more than women.
We fucking are fighting backthese boners every single day.
But, dina, I know that younever want sex.
You've never felt any sort ofanything in your life.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Right?
What is turned on?
What does that mean?

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
I think has something to do with the light switch.
I can't be sure.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Electricity yeah, got it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Electricity, yeah, and so all of that is easily
forgiven, but you as a woman, ifGod forbid, maybe you even
masturbated one time beforemarriage.
That's unforgivable, dina.
That is unforgivable, straightto hell.
And like like, think about this, when, when, freaking um,

(01:06:59):
remember when, when, uh, that,when jill talked about how they
finally had the ability to sayno, and she showed like that
brief clip of like what thenasty messages were that maybe,
anonymously, was really her dador someone you know, whatever
right dude.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
What if it was her?

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
mom.
But I remember one of the linesthat stuck out to me.
That was just on like a quick,like brief clip, is it said I
gave you an untouched virginalwoman and I just thought about
that.
I was like that is such adegrading, humiliating thing.
She has nothing.

(01:07:35):
Her only value is that she hasbeen untouched.
I've given you this beautiful,pristine property Is what that
text message said.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Which is odd how it was phrased, because, okay, I
want to say this carefully inthe ifb there because there was
a little bit of a mind map, butI have to give you a lot of
background so that we can bereally careful and diligent and
respectful about this.
So, um, in the ifb there's afull mind map.
Sorry, there's a lot of racismright, and especially in the

(01:08:08):
area that I grew up in, rightafter 9-11, there was a lot of
hate against muslims and it wasoften I often heard that like
there, I don't know anythingabout the muslim religion, so I
I very much apologize if I'msaying anything wrong or off
kilter or anything.
Um, they, they felt like whenyou get to their heaven, you get

(01:08:32):
like seven or ten virgins, Ithink, and like that's the
ultimate depends on how many youknow for a man it can be up to
99 virgins.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
I don't know, all the specifics.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
I just know that number can get pretty fucking
high okay, all right, well, like, and that when I read, or when
I saw that text on thedocumentary, that's all that I
was thinking about was like ifthis person that is sending this
text is from the ifb, we haveto look at it from a little bit
of a racist standpoint orperspective, where they talk
about how, like disgusting it isfor the muslim religion to

(01:09:06):
desire to gain these virgins intheir heaven, and yet he's
talking about presenting onesingle virginal prize.
And I was like now that I'm out, I can look at that and go.
You talk shit about Muslimsidolizing virgins, and yet here
we are.
Here you are, I'm not part ofit anymore.

(01:09:26):
And you're idolizing virgins.
And yet here we are.
Here you are, I'm not part ofit anymore.
And you're idolizing a womanlike a prize for her virginity,
as though she is worth nothingmore.
And yet that is how the ifbpaints the muslim religion.
I was like that's all thatstuck in my head when I saw that
it's absolute hypocrisy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
And think about it like this is that imagine how,
how that has to feel.
Because, like you know, I'veheard stories.
Like you know, my mom was atherapist and while she doesn't
give like details, she you know,especially if there was like a
really difficult case that shejust felt like she needed to
vent about.
Like I'd hear things and I'msure you've and we've talked a
little bit about it in god knowssome episode way in the past
where there is such a thinkabout for their entire life.

(01:10:08):
Sex is a sin, sexuality is a sin, you have to be virginal, you
have to be all this stuff, andthen when you get married, you
finally have this opportunity tobreak off the shackles.
But how do you deprogram?
However many years God, I hopeit's at least 18 years of being
told this is the worst thingthat you can ever do.
Do not have sex, do not do anyof this, and then you're allowed

(01:10:30):
to do it.
How are you able to make thatswitch in your mind and then
think about how your virginitywas the most important thing in
your life and then, even thoughyou've had sex with your husband
, you no longer have it.
You've been devalued, at leastin this Christian thing.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
So, okay, all right, I'll give you some personal
perspective on this one, twoparts.
Let's hold on to the secondpart that you just said about
how you no longer have it andthat's all that you had.
So when I got married, I was nolonger IFB.
When I got married and Tim isone of the people that helped me
start to gain that verbiage ofcult, because even when I got

(01:11:12):
out, I still was like not reallyaccepting of the term- Because
I was like it's just a weirdchurch.
But no, it's a cult, it's not achurch.
And he was not IFB and, withoutdelving into too much detail,
to respect him.
It was very difficult for us inthe beginning because I had
been told my whole life that,you know, don't have sex, don't

(01:11:35):
have sex, we don't want sex, wedon't want sex, we're not.
Nothing is attractive, nothingturns you on.
All of that.
So it is a very difficult startto a marriage, especially for a
man that didn't wait till hewas married and had sex with
other women and then I was avirgin.
That was a very difficulttransition.
It takes a lot of communicationand, like two people being very

(01:11:55):
, very open to communicating,you have to just lay it all out
there and have no shame.
And I got very lucky with who Imarried because he was very
accepting and willing to workthrough everything.
The second part so what the IFBand Christians will tell and I
say and Christians, because Idon't think this is exclusive to

(01:12:16):
the IFB, it might be Um, butwhen you no longer have your
virginity, if you lost itthrough marriage, you're not
devalued because you don't haveit.
You're still a virgin, you'restill pure.
Yeah, so you're still pure.
You're not devalued because youdon't have it.
You're still a virgin, you'restill pure.
Yeah, so you're still pure.
You're not still a virgin.
You're still pure because youlost it under the umbrella of

(01:12:37):
marriage.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
So they don't get devalued because of that you say
that, but think about this whathappens if you're a widower?

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
or sorry, right, yeah and that is something that like
is very problematic, it happensa lot.
And like widower or sorry,right yeah, and that is
something that like is veryproblematic, it happens a lot.
And like widower remarried likewhat does that mean?

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
And no matter what you are still considered to be,
you were married once.
Even though you did everythingthe right way, right, you were
still.
You're still not quite as newand shiny as you could have been
.
Yeah, and I think that that waspart of like like.
The more I heard about gothard,the more I just realized that
this was a dude with a veryspecific kink that got put into
a very high position of powerbecause he obviously loved

(01:13:16):
fucking the purity and virgins.
Everything that you hear, atleast from the documentary, was
it was over the shirt, maybe itwas under the dress, it was
touching, it was doing all thesethings and he wanted the most
virginal, pure girls that hecould get and that was his kink.
And it almost even reminded mea little bit of like you know
those stories of gandhi where hesaid that hey, listen, I'm not,

(01:13:36):
you know, I'm not taking a wife, I'm not, you know, doing this
stuff.
I've not heard these stories ofgandhi was gandhi a bad guy uh,
not necessarily a bad guy, buthe made some very questionable
decisions when it came tosexuality stuff.
There's very famous storiesabout how he would lie naked in
bed with his naked, uh, eithercousin or niece, and he wouldn't
do anything with them.

(01:13:56):
But that was how he tested hisresolve and tested his um a
purity, his ability to resist.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
Fuck, not castrate him.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Yeah yeah, and and and that is to me felt very
gothard-esque where I'm surethat there was worse.
That just isn't reported and Igod knows, I don't know what
actually happened, but at leastfrom the, the testimonies that
we have, it feels like a guythat that would try to push his
boundaries as much as he couldand it's just fucking sick stuff

(01:14:29):
because, again, like it's sucha weird thing to devalue or
de-rationalize someone justbecause, whether they're virgins
or not, and even if they dothings the right way, you're no
longer seen the same way.
You're now the married woman,you know, yeah yeah, I get that
anyways, guys and and and solike.
There's a lot of stuff that goesinto it and a lot of you know

(01:14:51):
the biggest thing that they talkabout is, you know, because I
do want to, you know, kind ofmove forward from this in a
second.
But you know, the sexual abuseand sexual assault stuff that
happened in the IFB is so muchmore than just Gothard or
Gothard's brother or you know,some of these level things I
mean they talk about at thesechurch camps that, oh, you know,
my leader would just fall intomy bed, like you said.

(01:15:13):
She didn't know, she could sayno, and it's rampant everywhere
in this culture.
And that's the thing that, justas a father to a daughter, man
like it, terrifies me that thereis such a big movement going
forward with no oversight, nochecks and balances, and that

(01:15:34):
these people are trying toinfluence every level, whether
it's government, schools, stufflike that, and that they can
push this agenda that they claimto be pure but it doesn't.
It gets rid of responsibility.
Right, it is me until God toldme to do this right it is me.

Speaker 4 (01:15:53):
Until god told me to do this, god was telling me, uh,
calling me dude, you're scaredwith your daughter and you're
not even adjacent to saidculture.
I'm a christian still and thereare a lot of like.
I don't typically associatewith baptist.
You're gonna be hard pressed tofind me associate with anybody
ifb, iblp, southern baptistyou're gonna be very hard
pressed to find me associating.
But I'm still a christian andI'm raising a boy close to that

(01:16:18):
culture and I am terrified andevery single day I wake up and I
have to diligently seek toteach him just the Bible, not
all of that bullshit, man-madereligion, because I will not
support him and tolerate any ofthat behavior in him.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Yeah, and that's the biggest thing that and I'm with
you on that, and I think that'sthe biggest thing is that preach
responsibility, preachaccountability.
If you're a man, be a fuckingman and protect others.
Don't abuse others.
Don't use these cheap tricks orhide behind religion so that
you can do this shit, man.
Like we need to start teachingmen to be responsible for

(01:17:06):
themselves and their actions.
Like you're not an animal.
Like you're not an animal,You're not an animal.
Just because you might get alittle aroused doesn't mean that
you have fucking carte blanche.
Do whatever the fuck you wantto people and just be like.
Oh, that's just, boys will beboys, you can't help it.
And like I think that that'sthe biggest thing that lacks in
all of that is there's a lack ofresponsibility, a lack of
accountability.

Speaker 4 (01:17:28):
And that perpetuates this behavior?
Yeah, it does sad.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
So, sean, do you have any any final kind of thoughts
and shots, because I know thatthis is probably a tough one for
you too, because you're also afather, you know, have a
daughter as well as a father.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
It is a difficult thing to learn about and to hear
about, but I, I find that it'sI don't know I I I'm able to
kind of disconnect myself fromit in an emotional way, in ways
that I didn't like expect.
I think I've seen enough ofthese shitty documentaries.

(01:18:01):
Like the documentary is good,obviously.
I mean like shitty situationsportrayed in documentaries that
like I've I've kind of becomedesensitized to it.
Um kelly and I watch a lot oflike murdery crimey like true
crime stuff and like just aftera while it's just like you just

(01:18:21):
go numb from all thehorribleness.
And it's just like when it hasto specifically to do with young
women, it is harder and I wantto do my best to um be a
positive male role model so thatmy kid knows how a man should

(01:18:43):
act and and like going off ofthat.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
I mean you know sometimes like we joke around
about how, as men, how low thefucking bar is in 2024.
As a soccer coach, I coachgirls and my bar is just don't
be fucking creepy to them, don'tabuse them, don't groom them.
That's how low the bar is.
That's how low our expectationsare, because in any of these

(01:19:07):
positions of power, whether it'sreligious organization, I mean,
there's issues with the bar isthat's how low our expectations
are, because in any of thesepositions of power, whether it's
religious organization, I mean,there's issues with the
gymnastics, national gymnasticsprogram.
All these people, if they'regiven an instant of power,
immediately turn around to abusewomen, and all you have to be
to be a good fucking person isnot do what is basic human
decency do what is basic humandecency?

Speaker 4 (01:19:31):
and like I got it like that's, that's your, that's
the bar over general, but yourgoal is to protect them and be a
good role model right, oh god,yes, okay, yes, god, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
But I'm just saying like that's how low the
standards have gotten and Iappreciate that.
That's how low the standardsare.
Like I got like I, you know, Iwork at a, you know, at a place
where, like I have, you know,college girls that like are like
work for our program.
Like I had a compliment theother day and like in the moment
, like I got it and then Istarted thinking about it and it

(01:19:58):
kind of like it was such a nicecompliment but it also kind of
like made me sad for like whatthe state of society was.
I had a counselor tell me thatI was safe.
I had a counselor tell me thatI was safe, that she viewed me,
and I know that you've said,similar to both me and Sean,
that you view us like family,that we are safe individuals.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
That means everything to me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
Yes, yeah, I think you're both safe.
The greatest compliment thatthese people feel comfortable
enough with me as a person, thatbeing safe is important to them
, that matters to them, and itwas one of the nicest things
that anyone's ever said to mebut the fact that that needs to
be a compliment, the fact thatwe're at a place now where

(01:20:38):
that's not just the status quo,where that's not just the given,
that that's something that ohmy gosh, this is like a pleasant
surprise.
You stand out because I feelyou are safe.
Like that hurt not me, but justhurt that this is a life that
this girl has to live, that alot of these girls have to live,
that that is something thatthey look for, that they seek

(01:20:59):
because of how prevalent abuseis in society, and that was hard
to think about when I startedwalking down.
That yeah, like, like.
Like you said, how many peopleoutside of your dad did you feel
you were safe with growing up?
That were men one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
It was his best friend and unchecked power can
lead to people who are supposedto make people feel safe exploit
that and push it till it allblows up.
Yeah, so the next time we talkabout this will be the final

(01:21:41):
chapter of the series and youcan have a little bit of a
retrospect about all of thefeels and all of the horrible
traumas that were making Dinarelive.
Thank, you.
Dina.
So stay tuned for that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:57):
You guys want to see how the IFB taught us to Deadass
serious, how they taught us topractice our smiles.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Yes, please.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
So you gotta puff out your gum a little bit, so you
gotta tongue right there andthen you gotta pinch, cheek,
cheek, cheek and then teethtogether and you never drop it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
I feel like a little lean back, yeah, and the, the
chin kind of falls right intoplace.
Yeah, jesus, that's yeah, andyou can talk about everything
and nobody ever like noticesthat it's.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
It's fake as fuck god damn it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
That does work.
That I'm gonna notice when youdo that smile.
Yeah, yeah now off screen.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
We have to check if dean is pinching your cheeks.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Like every time, daniel makes me uncomfortable,
you have to pinch your cheeks,and then that's what yeah, so
next time we talk about thisit'll be the final chapter.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
It'll go into post gothard era, um, and uh, more
disturbing shit with josh duggarand um, how political power has
been amassed, um by thesefundamentalists, uh, nationwide.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
Yeah, so that'll be awesome when we're ready to
drink more moonshine and feelsad.
We will do another cult episode, but thankfully next week our
guest is not part of a cult,wrote an incredible book and
will not bum us out the wholetime yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
Canada like a cult.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Oh, of course it's not a real country.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
It's America's hat.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
They're just bullshit .
All right, dana, we don't abideCanadians here, unless you're,
jess.
I miss you, jess, I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
We have a Canadian coming on next week.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Just for the record, jess didn't die.
Also, daniel did not get thatconnection at all.
Yes, abby Simpson, the authorof the dragon and the butterfly,
will be joining us next week,our first author interview of
this season.
And boy are we excited.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Yeah, I just want to ask her what she puts maple
syrup on.
I assume everything like, notjust food, like I just assume
that she doesn't put it on, Ithink that's a good question.

Speaker 4 (01:24:05):
Yeah, that's my that's my big.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Just if you guys notice in the background for
sean um jill is doing the ifbsmile, you can spot it.
Actually, I'm sorry, I meant tomostly cover them up the whole
time, you know, since they'resupposed to be in the background
.
Yeah, it's supposed to be seenbehind the men.
Yeah, um, like the strong manshould be in front and then like
they should just be kind of bein the background, smiling and
being silent yeah, yeah isn'tthat the rule.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to learn.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
Also, on a side note, I loved that, like these people
were just so like, hungry forjust normal human interaction
that literally 30 days from herwedding night, she had her first
kid.
Like she was deep, she was dtf,she was ready that's not how it
went down.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
I guarantee you all right so if you guys have a uh
an opinion on any of this, ifyou want to ask dina a question
about her experience in thiscult, if you want to shame
daniel for being inappropriateall give us a call.
What's the phone number?

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
daniel it's 347 69 weird, that's 347 699 3473.
God, I was really inappropriatethis episode, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
I'm so sorry you're gonna get fired.
I cut most of it, don't worryyeah, thank you, sean.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
Can you just play the sorry soundtrack real quick for
me?

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
no, can you ask us where people can find us on
social media, so we can get thefuck out of here I?

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):
think sean's hungry.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
I asked you to wrap it up.
Literally 20 minutes ago, Iasked you to wrap it up I have
two kids I've been bad at rap.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
I've been bad at wrapping it up for a long time,
uh you can find me on twitter atdinosaurus d.
That's d like d nuts sean,where can the folks find you?

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
you can find me on twitter at chase.
Hold you, what are you havingfor dinner?
Unclear, it's.
It's gonna be.
It's gonna be a leftoverscavenger hunt no time.

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
Uh, you can find me on.
Dan q writes in this.

Speaker 4 (01:26:04):
Dan q writes things singular he still talks in slow
motion, even when he's talkingfast.
No time, that was so slow.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
There's no time, dina .
We don't have time for this,for quality, you can find me.
We have to get out of here,correct?

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
I need followers.
Amazon wishlist in thedescription.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Follow us on threads.
Love you all.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Jazz hands, jazz hands.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
I don't know why I was about to click close.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Don't make it weird With Daniel Quigley, dinosaurus
and Sean Holden, produced andedited by me.
Sean Holden Theme song byAmaria, incidental music and
sound effects provided by VoiceMod, as well as the YouTube
audio library.
You can rate and review thisshow on Spotify, apple podcasts,
good pods and wherever else youdownload your podcasts.

(01:26:55):
Got a question for Daniel orDina?
Call the don't make it weirdHotline at three four seven 69
weird.
That's three four seven sixnine nine.
Three four seven 699-3473 andleave us a message.
It could be featured on afuture episode and if you
haven't already, pleasesubscribe to Don't Make it Weird
on YouTube for the videopresentation or on your favorite

(01:27:15):
podcast app for the audio-onlyversion of the show.
Thank you so much and we loveyou, don't make it weird.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
Was that okay?

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