July 2, 2025 • 39 mins
What if the secret to finding joy, purpose, and strength for life's hardest challenges isn't doing more, but creating space to breathe? Tommy Thompson, author of "Space to Breathe Again," shares his remarkable journey from driven entrepreneur to advocate for intentional margin in our lives.
Tommy's naturally extreme personality once led him to play 120 holes of golf in a single day. That same tendency toward excess eventually caught up with him when, while juggling multiple businesses, church leadership, and family responsibilities, he experienced what felt like a complete breakdown. Lying in bed one night with his world spinning, Tommy realized something had to change—though he wasn't doing anything "wrong," he was living without margin.
The discovery of the concept of Sabbath transformed Tommy and his wife's approach to life. Beginning with the seemingly impossible practice of taking an entire day off each week, they gradually built rhythms of rest into their daily lives. Little did they know these practices would become their lifeline through their daughter's six-and-a-half-year battle with stage four kidney cancer, which ultimately led to her passing in 2016.
Throughout our conversation, Tommy shares profound insights about faith tested by adversity. He and his wife learned to "rehearse the goodness of God" even when they couldn't see evidence of that goodness in their immediate circumstances. This practice of creating space for reflection, prayer, and rest became not just a survival mechanism but the foundation for deeper purpose.
Tommy believes our culture's epidemic of anxiety stems from lives "choked out" by constant noise, busyness, and distraction. The antidote isn't found in more effort but in intentional pauses that allow us to reconnect with what matters most. His podcast "Space for Life" continues this important conversation with guests who have discovered the transformative power of margin.
Ready to breathe again? Visit TommyThompsonorg to access Tommy's podcast, weekly reflections, and practical tools for creating life-giving space in your overloaded world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorsierShow.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
His name is Tommy Thompson.
He is an accomplishedentrepreneur, executive coach,
consultant, blogger, husband anddad and avid golfer.
(00:23):
He loves to teach, alwaysbringing personal experience,
deep reflection and mixing inpersonal application.
His first book, space toBreathe Again hopefully
overloaded and overwhelmedshares specific tools to help
(00:45):
people navigate the difficultpath of finding a balance in a
world overrun with distractionand excess.
He graduated from DavidsonCollege in 1980.
He obtained a Master ofDivinity degree from Union
(01:05):
Theological Seminary andpromptly went into business with
his brother.
Over 30 years of partnershiptogether, the manufacturing,
retail, human manufacturing,retail service and real estate
works.
His experience crossed everyfunction possible, including CEO
(01:34):
, cfo and sales.
Tommy, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, thank you so much for having me on the show,
Dorsey.
I've been looking forward toour conversation together.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, definitely.
I read in one of your promosand on your introduction that
you once played 120 holes ofgolf.
How did you manage that?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, it was actually .
I think it shows a little bitof my personality, which can be
prone to extremes, which is alsoprobably why I had to end up
writing a book like Space toBreathe Again.
But it was a charity eventwhere it was designed for people
(02:26):
to play 100 holes of golf inone day, which is about five and
a half rounds in one day.
And I was playing with mybrother and they would give each
one of us a golf cart so youcould move around quickly, but
you had to play a round of golfin about two hours, which
normally takes about four hours,so you're really speeding along
(02:47):
.
And my brother and I happenedto be playing so fast that we
finished and we still had aboutan hour and a half or two hours
of daylight, so we, crazilyenough, weren't tired, so we
decided to keep on playing aslong as the sun was out and
ended up playing 120 holes inone day.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh, wow.
One of my other things I liketo do is ask an icebreaker
question, and today's icebreakerquestion is if you could give
your 18-year-old self someadvice, what would that be?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I think it's somewhat based on where I am now.
I think I would encouragemyself to live more boldly and
take more risks.
You know I was.
I'm a measured strategic personkind of by nature, and while
(03:53):
that serves well in a lot ofdifferent ways, I think that my
18-year-old self would havebenefited by hearing someone say
you know, don't be afraid totake risks, put yourself out
there.
You know, take chances, and Ithink that would have been
(04:15):
helpful for me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, did you always want to be an author and a
podcaster?
We see, as I read in your bio,you went to seminary.
How did you go from going toseminary to doing all the
business and then now thatyou're an author and a podcaster
?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, it's a pretty circuitous route with it all.
I went to seminary Largely I'dlove to say that it was out of
this intense sense of calling,but it was largely because I
didn't know what I wanted to dowith my life and my life
revolved around my faith, whichis the most important thing to
(05:01):
me, and so I had kind ofreceived a lot of positive
encouragement around teaching indifferent Bible studies and
large groups in college and so Ithought, well, I'll give
seminary a try and got myMaster's of Divinity and at the
time was also teaching in aprivate school and coaching and
(05:28):
just found myself inconversations with my brother
who was an entrepreneur, justreally drawn to the challenge
and the excitement of theentrepreneurial world, and so
decided to join him in that.
And you know, we spent 40 yearsin partnership together across
(05:50):
a lot of different businesses.
But at the same time I reallykind of never lost my particular
love and passion for teaching.
And I remember back in 1992, Iwas in my early 30s, going
through a process of developinga personal mission statement and
I was in the midst of runningbusinesses and as I began to
(06:14):
just discern in a lot of quietwhat I felt really called and
passionate to do.
I came up with this phrase,which I expanded upon a lot, but
that I felt like God had calledme to be a teacher of life, and
so I began to lean into that,teaching a lot in church and I
(06:35):
just found such incredible joyand purpose in that and teaching
in pretty much every venue thatI had the opportunity to do.
And so, after about you know, 40years of entrepreneurial life,
and then, on the backside of youknow, the biggest storm in our
(07:00):
life, which was my daughter'sjourney of cancer, which we
could talk a little bit about, Idetermined at age 58, I just
really wanted to give my life towhat I was most passionate
about, and that was teaching.
And so, in the midst of that,podcasting and writing and
blogging and coaching just allseemed to be great platforms for
(07:25):
me to share and to teach aboutthings that are meaningful and
can hopefully help people livefuller lives.
So it was kind of roundabout tocome back to a place I started
way back in seminary to say Ijust want to give my life to
just trying to help people growthrough, you know, teaching
(07:46):
things that I've learned.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Right, did you teach in schools?
Did you teach in colleges or inchurches or Bible studies?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But I led and taught a large adult Sunday school
class for about 15 years at ourchurch, taught everything from a
(08:24):
year-long class of material Ideveloped on marriage to a class
that went on for a couple ofyears called Outrageous Living
just all of these differentthings about how do we find life
and find life in our faith andin God.
So I did that for about 15 yearsand at the same time often
(08:45):
helped people by leading andteaching strategic planning, you
know, in business contexts,different contexts outside of
the church, so all sorts ofdifferent contexts, and I also
led Bible studies and mentoredpeople.
That was a great avenue to meto kind of be able to teach and
(09:08):
help people.
So really anywhere I could findan opportunity where people
were interested.
I just loved doing it and Iloved actually the creativity of
it, which was what led me topodcasting, as I guess I was
probably when I started thepodcasting about 60 years old,
(09:29):
so not the typical thing for a60 year old to delve into, but I
just love the creativity andthe spontaneous nature of it and
just the opportunity to justhave amazing conversations like
this.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Right.
Can you share with us yourstory and how God finally showed
you how to create space in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, it really came out of my nature, which is a
nature that leans towardsdrivenness and excess, as you
heard, with my golf story of 120holes.
And, you know, in my early 30smy brother and I were running
(10:20):
four different businesses and atthe time I was also teaching
weekly, you know, the adultSunday school class at our
church.
I was an elder in our church.
We were beginning a family,beginning of family, and I
(10:43):
reached a place of just extremeoverload in my life.
And I can remember vividlylying down in my bed when my
daughter was one years old atthe time and businesses were
struggling a little bit, andI've just felt almost like I was
having a mental breakdown.
Like you know, this excess, I'mjust going to drown underneath
(11:03):
of it.
I could almost feel the bedspinning, like you know,
everything is just falling apartand I didn't know what to do
because I wasn't doing anythingwrong.
I was serving God, you know, inthe midst of all of this and
trying to lead my businesseswith integrity, and I couldn't
figure out what was going wrongin the midst of all of this.
(11:24):
And, you know, by God's grace,he led me to a book just shortly
after that night, called Margin, by Richard Swenson, and
Richard Swenson introduced to methe idea that God does not mean
for us to lead overloaded,overwhelmed lives, that life and
(11:47):
purpose and joy andrelationship come out of margin,
out of creating space in ourlives.
And it was the first time, andI remember as I read that I just
felt this tremendous weightcome off my shoulders as I
realized that God had a betterway for me, and so my wife and I
(12:09):
began just taking baby stepsinto creating space.
And it began for us by, for thefirst time in our lives,
practicing Sabbath and takingone day of the week and saying
we weren't going to work and itmade no sense.
We couldn't get everything donein seven days.
How are we going to get it donein six?
(12:30):
But we just did that as an actof obedience and we began to
lean into creating this spaceand we began to re -experience
some joy that was lost really inour journey.
And where that became socritical was about 15 years
(12:51):
later, 2010, as our kids grew up, and March 4th 2010, I get a
call from my wife, who wasvisiting my daughter at college
(13:16):
she was a sophomore and a halfyear journey with stage four
kidney cancer that my daughterwent through.
She was an amazing woman offaith and joy and realized at
that point that God's lessons ofcreating space in our lives was
(13:39):
the very mechanism by which Godallowed us to survive one of
life's hardest storms.
And that's the difficulty wewere going through in my
daughter's battle with cancer.
And after six and a half years,through some amazing journeys
amazing journeys of joy, butalso just of immense pain and
(14:03):
suffering she died the day afterThanksgiving 2016.
And at that point, in creatingspace, I'd backed off of most of
my work in the businesses andthat was when I really made the
decision.
You know, I've got one seasondon't know how long it'll be,
but ahead of me and I reallywant to give it to what I feel
(14:27):
like I can do to have the mostimpact.
And that's when I really kindof made the shift from running
businesses to coaching andpodcasting and writing the book
Space to Breathe Again, which isthe story of that journey to
margin and that story of mydaughter's battle with cancer
(14:48):
and our survival in that.
And I just believe that youknow, almost like that parable
of the sower that Jesus taught,that you know the growth and the
fruitfulness happens when wecreate soil that has space and
richness in it, and so that'sbecome, you know, almost the
(15:10):
framework with which I look atall of life is that the best of
life happens when we createspace, space for God and space
for relationships and purpose.
And so it's.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You know that first book is telling a lot of that
journey yeah, well, hey, I'msorry for your loss and you know
for what you had to go through.
You know, especially with yourI appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
you know god uh, it was.
It was a a journey that washorrible beyond description, but
also a journey in which god metus and showed his goodness in
so many ways and his power in somany ways, and so we have seen
that, even in the worst of life,god shows himself as redeemer
(16:10):
in powerful, powerful ways yeah,absolutely going back to you
(16:30):
know, uh, creating space and,you know, taking off the day for
.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know, for the sabbath, you know we read in the
bible that it does say you know, take off a day for the
Catholic, take a day of rest.
What did that look like for youand for your family to take
that day off?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Well, it was actually very humorous at the beginning
when we first started to do it,because we were so exhausted at
that particular time.
We were now kind of had threesmall children and it was kind
of in the early days of ourchildren and having children,
and we were so exhausted that,honestly, the day just looked
(17:08):
like we went to church and wecame home and my wife and I just
took turns taking naps.
One would take care of the kidswhile the other one would go
take a nap, and we'd never takennaps in our lives before.
But we were so exhausted wejust needed a chance to catch
our breath.
And so she would take a nap fora couple hours and I would
(17:31):
watch the kids and play withthem and then she would wake up
and then I would take a nap.
And you know, our only kind ofrule of the Sabbath was, you
know, we can't do work and wecan't do chores.
You know, anything thatqualified in our minds as work
was not allowed on that day.
(17:51):
But we could play with the kidsand we could.
If we needed to, we could watchTV and if we needed to we could
take naps.
And so we just began a longjourney of figuring out,
initially just catching ourbreath, but then, initially, as
it talks about, we found the joyin the Sabbath of now it's our
(18:13):
favorite day we look forward toof, just, you know, enjoying
creative, different ways of theday and it becomes I don't even
know how we existed without it.
Now, after having practiced theSabbath very, very imperfectly,
but practicing the Sabbath nowfor, you know, 30 years, I don't
(18:37):
know how we existed without it.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, when you did it or when you continue to do it.
Do you do it on the same dayeach week, or do you say, figure
out, I usually have a prettyfull week.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Monday through Friday and then Saturday I take to
kind of do the chores around thehouse and the household stuff.
We try to finish all of that upand then take Sunday for the
Sabbath.
I don't think it has to be onSunday for people, and what
we've often found works best forus and it's very much in sync
(19:33):
with the way the Jewish peoplepractice the Sabbath is we begin
the Sabbath at kind of sundownon Saturday and so it creates
this space for us to have adelightful kind of date night on
Saturday night, space for us tohave a delightful kind of date
night on Saturday night, andthen we just let that linger all
into Sunday, all the way untilabout dinnertime on Sunday, and
(19:56):
then Sunday night if I need to Idon't always need to I can kind
of just check my schedule andmake sure I'm set for Monday.
So I like the idea because theSabbath for the Jewish people
begins at sundown to sundown,and for us we found that often
gives us a particularlydelightful way of beginning the
(20:17):
Sabbath with kind of a datenight, a relaxed night, and then
just let that linger right oninto the next day.
So that's worked for us.
But I think God gives us thefreedom to do it in whatever
ways works.
So for ministers, I think,often taking Sundays for the
(20:38):
Sabbath doesn't make sense, sothey have to find a different
day.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right, yeah, how do we if, when we do that and we do
it consistently and we start toget into the habit of taking
the Sabbath off, how do we notget back into the habit of, you
know, cluttering up our livesagain or putting, you know,
(21:04):
putting too much into that dayof the Sabbath?
I think?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
that the concept of Sabbath, I think, introduces
that God desires for us toexperience a rhythm of rest, and
so what we look to do is topractice rhythms of rest.
So for us, a second practicethat came right behind
(21:34):
practicing the Sabbath wasreally adding a spacious time in
the morning for God, and beforethat it used to be something
that I would take five or 10minutes, read my chapter of the
Bible, say my token prayer,check it off my to-do list and
(21:56):
get on with what I was supposedto do.
And so we began to realize thatwell, no, we needed to create
this rhythm in the morning onthe other mornings of the week
where we could have enough timeto center ourselves with God.
(22:17):
And then I actually work hardto create what I call powerful
pauses and to go slowly and tohave time, such as before this
podcast, where you know I'm notrushing into everything, I have
time to breathe beforehand.
So it becomes again theframework by which I do
(22:40):
everything in my life, by whichI do, you know I live my day
with, you know time in themorning and time before I go to
bed to catch my breath, and timebefore meetings, and I'll often
drive in my car without anynoise, as a way of creating
(23:01):
space and quiet, and I find thatthe more I create space,
actually, the more I live a lifeof purpose and meaning, you
know, the better myrelationships go.
So what began as a one day aweek practice amidst six days of
craziness has now become,hopefully and I always have to
(23:25):
continue to work on it a rhythmof rest and purpose and activity
.
That becomes a way I live myday and a way I live my week and
even a way I live my year with,you know, periods of rest and
(23:48):
recreation and vacation, and itbegins with just believing in
your heart that God doesn't needus, that he chooses to allow us
to participate graciously injoy and purpose and meaning, and
that reframes everything.
(24:09):
Life is a gift and our time isa gift, and so entering into it
takes the pressure off which, asI say, with my driven nature, I
need to constantly be remindedof.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Right.
Have you seen with taking offthe Sabbath and, you know,
decluttering your life?
Have you seen that draw youcloser to God and your
relationship with him as well?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Oh, absolutely.
In fact, I think one of themost significant issues we have
within the church is our lack ofspace, which involves people
(25:03):
trying to have this idea of arelationship with God amidst
constant distraction, loud,incessant noise and constant
busyness, and there's no placefor God to fit into that, and I
(25:26):
think that makes God actuallyvery sad.
And so the creating of thespace, one of the most important
, most significant fruit comingout of that is a deeper
relationship with God and withhis word and with prayer and
with the ability, as we quietthe, to actually hear his voice
(25:50):
and feel his presence.
So I would say my relationshipto God is just infinitely better
with still so much room to go.
But that's just such one of thepowerful places that comes by
creating space, powerful placesthat comes by creating space,
and I don't know that it can, ina sense, come without creating
(26:13):
space.
Right, it would be like tryingto be married and say I'm going
to have a really just anintimate, special relationship
with my wife and I'll give hertwo minutes a day.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know it's just not going to happen.
Yeah, in what ways did yourfaith keep, your approach to
adversity?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
In what ways did my faith grow through adversity?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah to my faith, uh faith growth through
adversity.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, um, yeah it.
Uh, you know it was.
It was a journey.
Uh, you know, when my daughterwas diagnosed, um, with cancer,
it turned our world upside downin in the most profound sense.
And part of that is probablyinevitably a questioning of what
(27:15):
you believe.
Really deeply, and, I think, ina very, very subtle way, I had
come to look at my relationshipwith God and my faith in a
transactional way, such that,you know, if I'm obedient, if
I'm serving him and if I'm doingthe right things, then God will
(27:38):
spare me the really hard thingsof life.
And I realized, when mydaughter was diagnosed with
cancer and our life was turnedaround, that that's not the way
God works.
And so I had to reenter a wayof realizing God is so much
bigger and even, in a sense,unpredictable than I ever
(28:04):
imagined.
I ever imagined and yet, eventhough I couldn't understand, it
, called me to trust him, eventhough I couldn't understand
what was going on.
And that was not an easyjourney that I say lightly as a
(28:35):
cliche it was something that wasgut wrenching in every sense,
as we walked for six yearstogether, you know, not knowing
all the way along the line whenthis cancer would rear its head
in a way that would changeeverything and what we would
even do if she didn't survive.
(28:56):
It was all just a complete lossof control and a place of.
We need to just surrender andtrust in the goodness of God,
and my wife had this phrase fromthe message translation in
Psalms of we would justregularly, on a daily basis,
(29:18):
rehearse the goodness of God.
We couldn't see it in our dayof God.
We couldn't see it in our day.
Every day was just a battle.
But we just had to rehearse tocontinue to believe and trust in
the goodness of God beyond whatwe could see.
And then with time we began tosee that goodness come to the
(29:39):
surface in so many ways.
My daughter was married threeyears into her cancer journey,
(30:06):
against all odds, in the midstof the worst suffering.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
What would you tell someone who is struggling with
anxiety?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
um, anxiety to such a large degree um is a
consequence of our culture thatis choking the life out of us.
If you think about, you know,that, parable of the sower that
third seed is is a seed that ischoked out is the words that
(30:44):
that it uses.
And you think about beingchoked out, you can't catch your
breath.
And I think our culture is onethat is so loud and so busy and
so full of distractions, andthose very factors have created
a culture of anxiety.
(31:05):
And so, for those that I thinkreally battle anxiety, my
encouragement would be to do thevery things that God called us
to you know, in our lack ofmargin, and that's to you know,
trust him and begin to practicethe Sabbath, begin to catch your
(31:27):
breath, begin to take time withGod and quiet your heart.
And as we can begin thesepractices, which are practices
that I think are throughoutscripture, we can begin to see
God heal some of that anxiety inour lives.
But unless we slow down, Ithink we're going to have a hard
(31:53):
time dealing with the anxiety,and that's what I see in so many
friends.
One of the reasons I wrote thebook was I saw so many strong
Christian friends battlinganxiety and stress, and they
weren't even going through astorm in their lives, and so
that's one of the reasons Iwrote Space to Breathe Again is
(32:16):
to try to give people hope whoare overloaded and overwhelmed,
and a pathway, practical stepsto enter into that.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You mentioned that you have your own podcast.
Tell us about your podcast andwhat you talk about on your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate that the podcastis called Space for Life, kind
of not surprisingly giveneverything we're talking about,
and it's really an encouragement, with the practical wisdom of
guests and sometimes things thatI teach directly about, of how
(33:00):
do we create space in our lives,and then also bringing on
guests who have dealt with someof the hardest things in life
and how creating space hashelped them walk through their
(33:22):
journeys.
Through their journeys, I'vehad quite a few guests who
battle cancer.
I've had guests that have gonethrough business trials,
addictions, certainly some of myfriends who are ministers, and
we all talk about this commonthread that, when it comes down
(33:43):
to it, we find life when wecreate space in our lives, and
so, through stories and specificteaching, it's kind of helping
to continue this theme of theseed grows in spacious soil.
So how can we do that together?
(34:06):
How can we encourage each othertogether?
So I've now been podcasting foralmost five years.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay, you know how, about the kind of time that I've
been doing it as well?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, and you know, I feel like I would imagine maybe
you do too, but I just feellike it's such a privilege to
walk with people in theirstories, in their lives, and I
just find it such anencouragement to others.
You know that we can walk andwe can hear and we can and we
(34:45):
can live this journey together.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Right.
How can people connect with youand your book and your website
as well?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, well, fortunately my website's pretty
easy to find it'sTommyThompsonorg, and on there
someone can access very easilymy podcast, or they can find it
on Apple Podcasts or Spotify anyof the different podcast
(35:21):
platforms and Space for Life butthey can find it through
TommyThompsonorg and I alsowrite a weekly reflection that
people can subscribe to and evenoffer a few tools that I've
developed in coaching to helppeople step back and reflect and
(35:42):
create some space to thinkabout where their lives are
headed.
So the easiest overall platformis TommyThompsonorg.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, well, thank you , tommy, for coming on the show
today.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Well, thank you so much for having me on this and I
think what you're doing is justa great work and I know it's
very meaningful for so manypeople, so I give you just great
accolades for continuingfaithfully through this process
(36:24):
of podcasting and everythingthat you're doing in your
ministry.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Can you give us one word of encouragement or word of
knowledge before we leave today?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, I'll go back to kind of that word that goes all
the way back to, you know,right around 1990, goes all the
way back to right around 1990.
That, I felt like, was theturning point for my life, even
though I'd been a Christian fora good long time, but that God
(36:58):
does not desire for us to liveoverloaded, overwhelmed,
stressed out lives.
That God has joy and peace andpurpose for it if we will just
enter into the space he has forus.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Amen, I think we all need to do that, and you know to
hear that as well.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yes, and I have to remind myself daily of it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well.
Again, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Ladies and gentlemen, I hopeyou appreciate this episode and
Take some Reflection from it andencouragement From it, and
please like and share thisepisode and Go and check out
Tommy's Information and hiswebsite.
(37:41):
And until Next time, god bless,bye, bye.
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorsierShow.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
His name is Tommy Thompson.
He is an accomplishedentrepreneur, executive coach,
consultant, blogger, husband anddad and avid golfer.
(00:23):
He loves to teach, alwaysbringing personal experience,
deep reflection and mixing inpersonal application.
His first book, space toBreathe Again hopefully
overloaded and overwhelmedshares specific tools to help
(00:45):
people navigate the difficultpath of finding a balance in a
world overrun with distractionand excess.
He graduated from DavidsonCollege in 1980.
He obtained a Master ofDivinity degree from Union
(01:05):
Theological Seminary andpromptly went into business with
his brother.
Over 30 years of partnershiptogether, the manufacturing,
retail, human manufacturing,retail service and real estate
works.
His experience crossed everyfunction possible, including CEO
(01:34):
, cfo and sales.
Tommy, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, thank you so much for having me on the show,
Dorsey.
I've been looking forward toour conversation together.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, definitely.
I read in one of your promosand on your introduction that
you once played 120 holes ofgolf.
How did you manage that?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, it was actually .
I think it shows a little bitof my personality, which can be
prone to extremes, which is alsoprobably why I had to end up
writing a book like Space toBreathe Again.
But it was a charity eventwhere it was designed for people
(02:26):
to play 100 holes of golf inone day, which is about five and
a half rounds in one day.
And I was playing with mybrother and they would give each
one of us a golf cart so youcould move around quickly, but
you had to play a round of golfin about two hours, which
normally takes about four hours,so you're really speeding along
(02:47):
.
And my brother and I happenedto be playing so fast that we
finished and we still had aboutan hour and a half or two hours
of daylight, so we, crazilyenough, weren't tired, so we
decided to keep on playing aslong as the sun was out and
ended up playing 120 holes inone day.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh, wow.
One of my other things I liketo do is ask an icebreaker
question, and today's icebreakerquestion is if you could give
your 18-year-old self someadvice, what would that be?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I think it's somewhat based on where I am now.
I think I would encouragemyself to live more boldly and
take more risks.
You know I was.
I'm a measured strategic personkind of by nature, and while
(03:53):
that serves well in a lot ofdifferent ways, I think that my
18-year-old self would havebenefited by hearing someone say
you know, don't be afraid totake risks, put yourself out
there.
You know, take chances, and Ithink that would have been
(04:15):
helpful for me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, did you always want to be an author and a
podcaster?
We see, as I read in your bio,you went to seminary.
How did you go from going toseminary to doing all the
business and then now thatyou're an author and a podcaster
?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, it's a pretty circuitous route with it all.
I went to seminary Largely I'dlove to say that it was out of
this intense sense of calling,but it was largely because I
didn't know what I wanted to dowith my life and my life
revolved around my faith, whichis the most important thing to
(05:01):
me, and so I had kind ofreceived a lot of positive
encouragement around teaching indifferent Bible studies and
large groups in college and so Ithought, well, I'll give
seminary a try and got myMaster's of Divinity and at the
time was also teaching in aprivate school and coaching and
(05:28):
just found myself inconversations with my brother
who was an entrepreneur, justreally drawn to the challenge
and the excitement of theentrepreneurial world, and so
decided to join him in that.
And you know, we spent 40 yearsin partnership together across
(05:50):
a lot of different businesses.
But at the same time I reallykind of never lost my particular
love and passion for teaching.
And I remember back in 1992, Iwas in my early 30s, going
through a process of developinga personal mission statement and
I was in the midst of runningbusinesses and as I began to
(06:14):
just discern in a lot of quietwhat I felt really called and
passionate to do.
I came up with this phrase,which I expanded upon a lot, but
that I felt like God had calledme to be a teacher of life, and
so I began to lean into that,teaching a lot in church and I
(06:35):
just found such incredible joyand purpose in that and teaching
in pretty much every venue thatI had the opportunity to do.
And so, after about you know, 40years of entrepreneurial life,
and then, on the backside of youknow, the biggest storm in our
(07:00):
life, which was my daughter'sjourney of cancer, which we
could talk a little bit about, Idetermined at age 58, I just
really wanted to give my life towhat I was most passionate
about, and that was teaching.
And so, in the midst of that,podcasting and writing and
blogging and coaching just allseemed to be great platforms for
(07:25):
me to share and to teach aboutthings that are meaningful and
can hopefully help people livefuller lives.
So it was kind of roundabout tocome back to a place I started
way back in seminary to say Ijust want to give my life to
just trying to help people growthrough, you know, teaching
(07:46):
things that I've learned.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Right, did you teach in schools?
Did you teach in colleges or inchurches or Bible studies?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But I led and taught a large adult Sunday school
class for about 15 years at ourchurch, taught everything from a
(08:24):
year-long class of material Ideveloped on marriage to a class
that went on for a couple ofyears called Outrageous Living
just all of these differentthings about how do we find life
and find life in our faith andin God.
So I did that for about 15 yearsand at the same time often
(08:45):
helped people by leading andteaching strategic planning, you
know, in business contexts,different contexts outside of
the church, so all sorts ofdifferent contexts, and I also
led Bible studies and mentoredpeople.
That was a great avenue to meto kind of be able to teach and
(09:08):
help people.
So really anywhere I could findan opportunity where people
were interested.
I just loved doing it and Iloved actually the creativity of
it, which was what led me topodcasting, as I guess I was
probably when I started thepodcasting about 60 years old,
(09:29):
so not the typical thing for a60 year old to delve into, but I
just love the creativity andthe spontaneous nature of it and
just the opportunity to justhave amazing conversations like
this.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Right.
Can you share with us yourstory and how God finally showed
you how to create space in yourlife?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, it really came out of my nature, which is a
nature that leans towardsdrivenness and excess, as you
heard, with my golf story of 120holes.
And, you know, in my early 30smy brother and I were running
(10:20):
four different businesses and atthe time I was also teaching
weekly, you know, the adultSunday school class at our
church.
I was an elder in our church.
We were beginning a family,beginning of family, and I
(10:43):
reached a place of just extremeoverload in my life.
And I can remember vividlylying down in my bed when my
daughter was one years old atthe time and businesses were
struggling a little bit, andI've just felt almost like I was
having a mental breakdown.
Like you know, this excess, I'mjust going to drown underneath
(11:03):
of it.
I could almost feel the bedspinning, like you know,
everything is just falling apartand I didn't know what to do
because I wasn't doing anythingwrong.
I was serving God, you know, inthe midst of all of this and
trying to lead my businesseswith integrity, and I couldn't
figure out what was going wrongin the midst of all of this.
(11:24):
And, you know, by God's grace,he led me to a book just shortly
after that night, called Margin, by Richard Swenson, and
Richard Swenson introduced to methe idea that God does not mean
for us to lead overloaded,overwhelmed lives, that life and
(11:47):
purpose and joy andrelationship come out of margin,
out of creating space in ourlives.
And it was the first time, andI remember as I read that I just
felt this tremendous weightcome off my shoulders as I
realized that God had a betterway for me, and so my wife and I
(12:09):
began just taking baby stepsinto creating space.
And it began for us by, for thefirst time in our lives,
practicing Sabbath and takingone day of the week and saying
we weren't going to work and itmade no sense.
We couldn't get everything donein seven days.
How are we going to get it donein six?
(12:30):
But we just did that as an actof obedience and we began to
lean into creating this spaceand we began to re -experience
some joy that was lost really inour journey.
And where that became socritical was about 15 years
(12:51):
later, 2010, as our kids grew up, and March 4th 2010, I get a
call from my wife, who wasvisiting my daughter at college
(13:16):
she was a sophomore and a halfyear journey with stage four
kidney cancer that my daughterwent through.
She was an amazing woman offaith and joy and realized at
that point that God's lessons ofcreating space in our lives was
(13:39):
the very mechanism by which Godallowed us to survive one of
life's hardest storms.
And that's the difficulty wewere going through in my
daughter's battle with cancer.
And after six and a half years,through some amazing journeys
amazing journeys of joy, butalso just of immense pain and
(14:03):
suffering she died the day afterThanksgiving 2016.
And at that point, in creatingspace, I'd backed off of most of
my work in the businesses andthat was when I really made the
decision.
You know, I've got one seasondon't know how long it'll be,
but ahead of me and I reallywant to give it to what I feel
(14:27):
like I can do to have the mostimpact.
And that's when I really kindof made the shift from running
businesses to coaching andpodcasting and writing the book
Space to Breathe Again, which isthe story of that journey to
margin and that story of mydaughter's battle with cancer
(14:48):
and our survival in that.
And I just believe that youknow, almost like that parable
of the sower that Jesus taught,that you know the growth and the
fruitfulness happens when wecreate soil that has space and
richness in it, and so that'sbecome, you know, almost the
(15:10):
framework with which I look atall of life is that the best of
life happens when we createspace, space for God and space
for relationships and purpose.
And so it's.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You know that first book is telling a lot of that
journey yeah, well, hey, I'msorry for your loss and you know
for what you had to go through.
You know, especially with yourI appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
you know god uh, it was.
It was a a journey that washorrible beyond description, but
also a journey in which god metus and showed his goodness in
so many ways and his power in somany ways, and so we have seen
that, even in the worst of life,god shows himself as redeemer
(16:10):
in powerful, powerful ways yeah,absolutely going back to you
(16:30):
know, uh, creating space and,you know, taking off the day for
.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know, for the sabbath, you know we read in the
bible that it does say you know, take off a day for the
Catholic, take a day of rest.
What did that look like for youand for your family to take
that day off?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Well, it was actually very humorous at the beginning
when we first started to do it,because we were so exhausted at
that particular time.
We were now kind of had threesmall children and it was kind
of in the early days of ourchildren and having children,
and we were so exhausted that,honestly, the day just looked
(17:08):
like we went to church and wecame home and my wife and I just
took turns taking naps.
One would take care of the kidswhile the other one would go
take a nap, and we'd never takennaps in our lives before.
But we were so exhausted wejust needed a chance to catch
our breath.
And so she would take a nap fora couple hours and I would
(17:31):
watch the kids and play withthem and then she would wake up
and then I would take a nap.
And you know, our only kind ofrule of the Sabbath was, you
know, we can't do work and wecan't do chores.
You know, anything thatqualified in our minds as work
was not allowed on that day.
(17:51):
But we could play with the kidsand we could.
If we needed to, we could watchTV and if we needed to we could
take naps.
And so we just began a longjourney of figuring out,
initially just catching ourbreath, but then, initially, as
it talks about, we found the joyin the Sabbath of now it's our
(18:13):
favorite day we look forward toof, just, you know, enjoying
creative, different ways of theday and it becomes I don't even
know how we existed without it.
Now, after having practiced theSabbath very, very imperfectly,
but practicing the Sabbath nowfor, you know, 30 years, I don't
(18:37):
know how we existed without it.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, when you did it or when you continue to do it.
Do you do it on the same dayeach week, or do you say, figure
out, I usually have a prettyfull week.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Monday through Friday and then Saturday I take to
kind of do the chores around thehouse and the household stuff.
We try to finish all of that upand then take Sunday for the
Sabbath.
I don't think it has to be onSunday for people, and what
we've often found works best forus and it's very much in sync
(19:33):
with the way the Jewish peoplepractice the Sabbath is we begin
the Sabbath at kind of sundownon Saturday and so it creates
this space for us to have adelightful kind of date night on
Saturday night, space for us tohave a delightful kind of date
night on Saturday night, andthen we just let that linger all
into Sunday, all the way untilabout dinnertime on Sunday, and
(19:56):
then Sunday night if I need to Idon't always need to I can kind
of just check my schedule andmake sure I'm set for Monday.
So I like the idea because theSabbath for the Jewish people
begins at sundown to sundown,and for us we found that often
gives us a particularlydelightful way of beginning the
(20:17):
Sabbath with kind of a datenight, a relaxed night, and then
just let that linger right oninto the next day.
So that's worked for us.
But I think God gives us thefreedom to do it in whatever
ways works.
So for ministers, I think,often taking Sundays for the
(20:38):
Sabbath doesn't make sense, sothey have to find a different
day.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right, yeah, how do we if, when we do that and we do
it consistently and we start toget into the habit of taking
the Sabbath off, how do we notget back into the habit of, you
know, cluttering up our livesagain or putting, you know,
(21:04):
putting too much into that dayof the Sabbath?
I think?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
that the concept of Sabbath, I think, introduces
that God desires for us toexperience a rhythm of rest, and
so what we look to do is topractice rhythms of rest.
So for us, a second practicethat came right behind
(21:34):
practicing the Sabbath wasreally adding a spacious time in
the morning for God, and beforethat it used to be something
that I would take five or 10minutes, read my chapter of the
Bible, say my token prayer,check it off my to-do list and
(21:56):
get on with what I was supposedto do.
And so we began to realize thatwell, no, we needed to create
this rhythm in the morning onthe other mornings of the week
where we could have enough timeto center ourselves with God.
(22:17):
And then I actually work hardto create what I call powerful
pauses and to go slowly and tohave time, such as before this
podcast, where you know I'm notrushing into everything, I have
time to breathe beforehand.
So it becomes again theframework by which I do
(22:40):
everything in my life, by whichI do, you know I live my day
with, you know time in themorning and time before I go to
bed to catch my breath, and timebefore meetings, and I'll often
drive in my car without anynoise, as a way of creating
(23:01):
space and quiet, and I find thatthe more I create space,
actually, the more I live a lifeof purpose and meaning, you
know, the better myrelationships go.
So what began as a one day aweek practice amidst six days of
craziness has now become,hopefully and I always have to
(23:25):
continue to work on it a rhythmof rest and purpose and activity
.
That becomes a way I live myday and a way I live my week and
even a way I live my year with,you know, periods of rest and
(23:48):
recreation and vacation, and itbegins with just believing in
your heart that God doesn't needus, that he chooses to allow us
to participate graciously injoy and purpose and meaning, and
that reframes everything.
(24:09):
Life is a gift and our time isa gift, and so entering into it
takes the pressure off which, asI say, with my driven nature, I
need to constantly be remindedof.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Right.
Have you seen with taking offthe Sabbath and, you know,
decluttering your life?
Have you seen that draw youcloser to God and your
relationship with him as well?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Oh, absolutely.
In fact, I think one of themost significant issues we have
within the church is our lack ofspace, which involves people
(25:03):
trying to have this idea of arelationship with God amidst
constant distraction, loud,incessant noise and constant
busyness, and there's no placefor God to fit into that, and I
(25:26):
think that makes God actuallyvery sad.
And so the creating of thespace, one of the most important
, most significant fruit comingout of that is a deeper
relationship with God and withhis word and with prayer and
with the ability, as we quietthe, to actually hear his voice
(25:50):
and feel his presence.
So I would say my relationshipto God is just infinitely better
with still so much room to go.
But that's just such one of thepowerful places that comes by
creating space, powerful placesthat comes by creating space,
and I don't know that it can, ina sense, come without creating
(26:13):
space.
Right, it would be like tryingto be married and say I'm going
to have a really just anintimate, special relationship
with my wife and I'll give hertwo minutes a day.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know it's just not going to happen.
Yeah, in what ways did yourfaith keep, your approach to
adversity?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
In what ways did my faith grow through adversity?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah to my faith, uh faith growth through
adversity.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, um, yeah it.
Uh, you know it was.
It was a journey.
Uh, you know, when my daughterwas diagnosed, um, with cancer,
it turned our world upside downin in the most profound sense.
And part of that is probablyinevitably a questioning of what
(27:15):
you believe.
Really deeply, and, I think, ina very, very subtle way, I had
come to look at my relationshipwith God and my faith in a
transactional way, such that,you know, if I'm obedient, if
I'm serving him and if I'm doingthe right things, then God will
(27:38):
spare me the really hard thingsof life.
And I realized, when mydaughter was diagnosed with
cancer and our life was turnedaround, that that's not the way
God works.
And so I had to reenter a wayof realizing God is so much
bigger and even, in a sense,unpredictable than I ever
(28:04):
imagined.
I ever imagined and yet, eventhough I couldn't understand, it
, called me to trust him, eventhough I couldn't understand
what was going on.
And that was not an easyjourney that I say lightly as a
(28:35):
cliche it was something that wasgut wrenching in every sense,
as we walked for six yearstogether, you know, not knowing
all the way along the line whenthis cancer would rear its head
in a way that would changeeverything and what we would
even do if she didn't survive.
(28:56):
It was all just a complete lossof control and a place of.
We need to just surrender andtrust in the goodness of God,
and my wife had this phrase fromthe message translation in
Psalms of we would justregularly, on a daily basis,
(29:18):
rehearse the goodness of God.
We couldn't see it in our dayof God.
We couldn't see it in our day.
Every day was just a battle.
But we just had to rehearse tocontinue to believe and trust in
the goodness of God beyond whatwe could see.
And then with time we began tosee that goodness come to the
(29:39):
surface in so many ways.
My daughter was married threeyears into her cancer journey,
(30:06):
against all odds, in the midstof the worst suffering.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
What would you tell someone who is struggling with
anxiety?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
um, anxiety to such a large degree um is a
consequence of our culture thatis choking the life out of us.
If you think about, you know,that, parable of the sower that
third seed is is a seed that ischoked out is the words that
(30:44):
that it uses.
And you think about beingchoked out, you can't catch your
breath.
And I think our culture is onethat is so loud and so busy and
so full of distractions, andthose very factors have created
a culture of anxiety.
(31:05):
And so, for those that I thinkreally battle anxiety, my
encouragement would be to do thevery things that God called us
to you know, in our lack ofmargin, and that's to you know,
trust him and begin to practicethe Sabbath, begin to catch your
(31:27):
breath, begin to take time withGod and quiet your heart.
And as we can begin thesepractices, which are practices
that I think are throughoutscripture, we can begin to see
God heal some of that anxiety inour lives.
But unless we slow down, Ithink we're going to have a hard
(31:53):
time dealing with the anxiety,and that's what I see in so many
friends.
One of the reasons I wrote thebook was I saw so many strong
Christian friends battlinganxiety and stress, and they
weren't even going through astorm in their lives, and so
that's one of the reasons Iwrote Space to Breathe Again is
(32:16):
to try to give people hope whoare overloaded and overwhelmed,
and a pathway, practical stepsto enter into that.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You mentioned that you have your own podcast.
Tell us about your podcast andwhat you talk about on your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, thank you.
I appreciate that the podcastis called Space for Life, kind
of not surprisingly giveneverything we're talking about,
and it's really an encouragement, with the practical wisdom of
guests and sometimes things thatI teach directly about, of how
(33:00):
do we create space in our lives,and then also bringing on
guests who have dealt with someof the hardest things in life
and how creating space hashelped them walk through their
(33:22):
journeys.
Through their journeys, I'vehad quite a few guests who
battle cancer.
I've had guests that have gonethrough business trials,
addictions, certainly some of myfriends who are ministers, and
we all talk about this commonthread that, when it comes down
(33:43):
to it, we find life when wecreate space in our lives, and
so, through stories and specificteaching, it's kind of helping
to continue this theme of theseed grows in spacious soil.
So how can we do that together?
(34:06):
How can we encourage each othertogether?
So I've now been podcasting foralmost five years.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay, you know how, about the kind of time that I've
been doing it as well?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, and you know, I feel like I would imagine maybe
you do too, but I just feellike it's such a privilege to
walk with people in theirstories, in their lives, and I
just find it such anencouragement to others.
You know that we can walk andwe can hear and we can and we
(34:45):
can live this journey together.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Right.
How can people connect with youand your book and your website
as well?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, well, fortunately my website's pretty
easy to find it'sTommyThompsonorg, and on there
someone can access very easilymy podcast, or they can find it
on Apple Podcasts or Spotify anyof the different podcast
(35:21):
platforms and Space for Life butthey can find it through
TommyThompsonorg and I alsowrite a weekly reflection that
people can subscribe to and evenoffer a few tools that I've
developed in coaching to helppeople step back and reflect and
(35:42):
create some space to thinkabout where their lives are
headed.
So the easiest overall platformis TommyThompsonorg.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, well, thank you , tommy, for coming on the show
today.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Well, thank you so much for having me on this and I
think what you're doing is justa great work and I know it's
very meaningful for so manypeople, so I give you just great
accolades for continuingfaithfully through this process
(36:24):
of podcasting and everythingthat you're doing in your
ministry.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Can you give us one word of encouragement or word of
knowledge before we leave today?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, I'll go back to kind of that word that goes all
the way back to, you know,right around 1990, goes all the
way back to right around 1990.
That, I felt like, was theturning point for my life, even
though I'd been a Christian fora good long time, but that God
(36:58):
does not desire for us to liveoverloaded, overwhelmed,
stressed out lives.
That God has joy and peace andpurpose for it if we will just
enter into the space he has forus.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Amen, I think we all need to do that, and you know to
hear that as well.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yes, and I have to remind myself daily of it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well.
Again, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Ladies and gentlemen, I hopeyou appreciate this episode and
Take some Reflection from it andencouragement From it, and
please like and share thisepisode and Go and check out
Tommy's Information and hiswebsite.
(37:41):
And until Next time, god bless,bye, bye.
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