August 27, 2025 • 39 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorserosShow.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Jessica Morris.
She is an author, spiritualdirector and huge fan of Jesus.
Her most recent book, higherPowered, reaches deep into the
(00:24):
soul of every reader to excavatethe crap that gets in the way
of a personal relationship withthe higher power.
Jessica's honesty andvulnerability invite the reader
to let it all hang out in orderto take the first step into
(00:45):
freedom from the bondage of self, and just wait until you hear
her talk about it.
Thank you, jessica, for comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you, Dorsey.
It's great to be here with youtoday.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I always like to start off with my podcast with
an icebreaker question, andtoday's icebreaker question is
what's your favorite way tospend a day off?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh well, there's got to be a nap somewhere Somewhere
within the day I need to betaking a nap, because I
absolutely love naps.
So that would be scheduled into make sure I got it.
But right now a day off is oddfor me because I quit my 30-plus
(01:35):
year career job in November sothat I could start really making
a go of the writing ministrythat I believe I've been called
to, and so there's not a lot ofdays off in total.
But I will say that one of thethings that I love to do with my
husband is when he's home fromwork on the weekends.
(01:58):
We just absolutely lovewatching comedians silly,
ridiculous comedians ontelevision football you know
there'd have to be some footballin there.
We're really big on just beingtogether, you know, like we
don't have to do anything crazy.
We used to have a HarleyDavidson motorcycle we're both
getting a little too old forthat now but we used to love
(02:21):
just going on rides, you know,and and just we didn't even have
to be going anywhere, justgoing and being together, and so
, yeah, I would say I would dosomething with my husband and or
my big sister her name's Bea,and she practically raised me
and so I'd probably go to themovies with her.
So we'd need probably about 48hours on that day off to get
(02:42):
everything in, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What sparked your interest in your writing and you
know, in what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You know, dorsey, I've been doing this my whole
life, without even knowing it.
I've been using writing as asort of a self-therapy, I guess
you could say, because when Iwrite I feel so connected.
I feel so connected to God whenI'm writing whether I'm writing
poetry, journal writing or evenwhen I was writing, you know,
(03:16):
research papers for school orwhatever I just when I'm
researching and I'm puttingthings together like that, that
is really where the juices areflowing.
And so the cleaner I got in myrecovery from addictions, the
more I felt pulled to be doingmore and more and more of this.
And so my interest really iskind of selfish in a way,
(03:37):
because I feel closer to Godwhen I'm doing it and I love
that feeling and I recognizethat I really believe with every
ounce of my soul that he wantsme, god wants me to be doing
this and he wants me to becarrying his message through my
story.
And so I'm doing that the bestthat I can, and I really love it
(03:58):
.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
What's something that you wish you would have known
10 years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What's something that you wish you would have known
10 years ago?
Ooh, 10 years ago.
Well, let's see, ooh, wow,something.
I you know what 10 years ago.
I knew this in my head 10 yearsago, but it hadn't traveled to
(04:26):
my heart yet.
I knew from my recoveryprograms that ego, my ego is
usually going to get in the wayof me being successful, of me
having a strong relationshipwith God.
I knew that up here, but ittook a long time for it to
travel down to my heart.
So I guess what I wish that Icould tell that girl is to
(04:51):
really listen more.
You know, because she thoughtshe knew a lot.
You know, that was right when Iwas starting seminary I think I
was about my first year inseminary and she thought she had
it all together, she knew whatwas going on.
And really, you know, what Ilearned when I graduated from
seminary is how much I don'tknow and how much I will never
(05:11):
know.
You know, and that has been oneof the greatest lessons of my
life.
You know, because me walkingaround thinking I know things is
not going to help anybody.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Can you share with us some of your story and what you
have been through in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Sure, you know, I grew up a lot of this actually
is even on the back jacket of mybook but I grew up in a
Methodist minister's home.
My dad was a Methodist ministerand my mom was a schoolteacher,
and we lived in a very smalltown.
I grew up in the 70s, the 70sand 80s, and so it was a very
(05:58):
different time in the world.
You know, we didn't all have acell phone attached to our hand,
you know.
In fact, if you wanted to talkto someone, usually definitely
they had to be home, and you hadto be home in order to talk to
them on the phone.
So life was very different, andin that very small town where I
(06:18):
lived, everyone, everything wealways did as kids, always got
back to our parents, you know,because my dad was the minister
and my mom was the teacher atthe school, and in addition to
that, though, so that's likeyour normal preacher's kid kind
of growing up right.
And then my dad, on top of allof that, was an alcoholic, and
anyone who knows anything aboutalcoholism knows that it only
(06:41):
gets worse over time, knows thatit only gets worse over time,
and so, over time, my fatherbecame increasingly angry,
withdrawn, abusive.
You know like, and when I sayabusive I don't just mean
physically.
There was physical abuse, but alot of it was emotional abuse
and mental abuse, and that, tome, is actually more damaging.
(07:03):
That was more damaging to me,like I'd rather you beat me up
than say anything to me.
That's going to mess with mymind because for the rest of my
life those messages are there.
And so that's that.
I was the youngest of four inthat family.
Early on in my life my fathertold me that I was a mistake,
that my parents hadn't plannedme, and he used the word mistake
(07:25):
, and so that's pretty much whatI thought of myself my whole
life.
I figured my dad's the minister, and he said that.
So God must believe that alsobecause I just equated minister
and God together.
And so that's how I grew up andI hated what he did to our
family with his drinking Like Iwould.
(07:47):
Even as a young girl.
I knew that the drinking wentwith the icky times.
You know like.
I couldn't figure out exactlywhy, but I knew whenever he
drank beer or whenever he had adrink, things did not go well,
(08:08):
not go well, and I promisedmyself I would never be like him
.
And what happened was I becameexactly like him.
You know I used food andalcohol both they were both my
addictions.
And you know I rationalized itmy entire time drinking, I
rationalized that I was havingfun.
You know my dad was a jerk.
I was having fun, you know, andthat's how I rationalized it
(08:30):
growing up and, luckily for me,I got into recovery at the age
of 29.
A lot of people are not thatyoung when they find it, but I
had some really wonderful peoplein my life who weren't going to
let me fail, you know, and theytold me the truth about what
they saw.
My older sister told me she sawa lot of our father in me,
(08:53):
which broke my heart.
I couldn't believe she wassaying that to me.
And I look back now and I thinkit's one of the most loving
things anybody ever said to me.
I needed to hear it.
And then I had a counselor whosent me to recovery.
She said you know, you have alot of issues from your
childhood that we need to workon for sure, but none of it's
going to work until you putthese substances down.
(09:17):
There's a lot that happened inbetween, but I don't want to go
on a drunk-a-log, as they say,you know.
But since then I have beenfinding my way back to yeah, my
way back to the true God of myheart.
(09:38):
You know, as a child I was veryafraid of God.
I always could identify withJesus because I saw Jesus as a
lot like me, you know.
I know this isn't what happened, but I saw Jesus as being
abused by his father, you know,and so I knew Jesus understood
(09:59):
me.
But at the age of 18, when Iwent to college, I walked away
from organized religion.
I couldn't trust anybody whowas involved with organized
religion because I just assumedeverybody was like my father.
You know, I put a label on itright away.
I put a label on it right awayand even though I never stopped
(10:36):
praying, I really I just wascompletely separated and I will
share with person who went backto party with the people who are
still at college and I wasoutside of a party it was
January, it was freezing cold,nobody was with me because it
was so cold and I was smoking acigarette and I looked up at the
sky and it was just a billionstars and I was so angry.
(10:58):
I was so angry and I juststarted telling God off.
I mean, I really just startedlike out loud swearing at God.
When do I get my turn?
When do I get a good life?
You know, why are you doingthis to me?
All those just selfish,self-centered things.
And, dorsey, I hope you canunderstand this.
(11:22):
I don't know how to explain itto people and sometimes when I
tell people this, they look atme like I'm crazy.
So try not to look at me likeI'm crazy.
And I felt this, like warmthcome over me, and I knew and I'm
(11:43):
going to look straight aheadwhen I say this I knew that
Jesus was standing right here,next to me, like physically
standing here, and that I knewall I had to do was turn my face
to the left and I would see himand I would be able to hug him.
And I felt lovely and wonderful.
(12:05):
And then immediately terrifiedand I ran back into the party.
And it's still horrifying toeven tell this story in that
sense, because I wish I wouldhave turned and given him a big
hug, because I really want to.
I really want to give him a hugright now.
But I had a friend tell meseveral years ago, when I shared
(12:26):
the story with him, that hesaid, Jessica, he knew you were
going to run back into the party, but he came anyway because he
loves you and he wanted you toknow he was there and that he
heard you.
You know, and I get it now.
You know, and that really was.
I didn't know it at the time,but that was the catapult for me
(12:47):
getting to this place wherethis most recent book came from,
and my journey through seminary.
I mean it, all it.
He's been working with me onthis ever since then and I can
see it all.
Of course, I can see it all inhindsight, you know, but my, my
gratitude in it is that he knew.
In that moment, I believe thatI could not see him.
(13:08):
I could not look at him, I hadway too much shame, and so he
sent me messages through all thepeople that guided me in
recovery.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And that's how I found my way back.
Was that night, that moment,was that the turning point in
your recovery, or was itsomething else that was a
turning point for you?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
was a turning point for you.
Well, that was actually.
It was a turning point in thatthe next six years it was about
six or seven years till I got inrecovery after that.
So I continued on the road withmy addictions and it was bad,
like those you know in the Biblewhere Jesus says there will be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.
That's what those six yearsfelt like.
Weeping and gnashing of teeth,that's what those six years felt
(14:00):
like.
I mean the loneliness, theisolation.
I mean it was suicide, wassuicidal.
It was horrible.
And the turning point for mehappened over about a 10 month
period of time, where Imentioned that my older sister
came to me and told me the truthabout what she saw and I got
really angry at her.
You know, I didn't like to hearwhat she was saying because it
(14:21):
was the truth, I needed to hearit.
But I didn't want to hear itand I thought I'll show her, I'm
going to go to a counselor andI'm going to get help with all
my problems and she's going tosee it's got nothing to do with
alcohol.
And so that's the counselor, atthe end of about a 10 month
(14:42):
period, who sent me to recovery.
And so that, truly, and and Iwas desperate enough at that
point because, because thesubstances weren't working for
me anymore, you know like Iwasn't getting a high off of
being drunk, I had troublegetting drunk, my tolerance was
so high I couldn't get anyfulfillment out of the food
(15:04):
anymore, you know, I used toreally get a rush off of it and
I couldn't control my weightanymore.
I was about 150 poundsoverweight and I was 5'4", so
that was not a pretty sight, youknow.
And so it just was.
I would say the turning pointwould be loneliness and
(15:24):
desperation.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You mentioned, you know that while you weren't
going to church, you stillprayed to you know, to God.
You know, and we assume it'sthe you know, the God of the
Bible.
Did you consider when you leftorganized religion?
Did you consider yourself anatheist?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
No, no, I was a really angry.
I was a really angry lover ofJesus.
How's?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
that sound.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I always knew God was there.
I just figured he really didn'tlike me.
That was kind of ourrelationship at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Were you angry at him or for some reason?
Were you angry at him becauseof what happened to you with
your parents and your dad, orwere you just angry with him for
some other reason?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, I was angry that he put me in the family I
was in.
I was angry that he had a manlike my father sharing his
message with others and cominghome.
And I used to say to peopleit's a horrible thing to say,
because I have forgiven myfather and I have, you know,
really I believe I've had awonderful reconciliation with
(16:52):
him.
He's passed away, but I do feellike my father is sort of
guiding me now.
But I used to say to people youknow, my dad was a wonderful
minister.
People loved him in the church.
He was very good at publicspeaking, he was good at
counseling with people, he was alot of fun.
(17:13):
And then he'd come home andbeat the shit out of us.
That's what I used to say topeople and it was all true,
right, but it was a harsh thingto say, knowing what I know now,
you know about alcoholism andhow I don't believe that it was
ever my father's choice to be abad father.
(17:36):
You know, like he didn't growup going.
I'm going to beat the crap outof my family, you know like that
, you know.
But alcoholism takes, takeseverything from us, you know,
including love, includingcompassion, all of it.
So I was mad at God for reallyallowing that.
I remember one time asking mymother because wine was in the
(18:00):
Bible.
They talked about wine in theBible and one of the miracles
was even turning water into wine.
And I remember saying to my momwhy did God even invent wine to
begin with?
Because it was never a funthing in our house, it was
always a problem, and I really Ijust couldn't understand it at
(18:20):
the time.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So it was like, almost like when it comes to you
know, I don't want to you know,this is your story, I don't
want to go back too much to youknow.
So it was almost like a hiddengem for him where only you and
the family knew about it and,you know, wasn't like a public
spectacle where everybody elseknew that the town minister was
(18:43):
a drunk.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well, they knew he drank okay, because he did drink
in public.
But I think because we lived ina very small town, a lot of
blue collar hunter kind of youknow personalities, they loved
that he hung out with them anddrank with them, you know,
because I think it made themfeel better.
(19:07):
He drank and he smoked and hehad a good time and it didn't
get to the really ugly leveluntil he got home.
You know he was always able tosort of control it out there in
the public Right Until later,until later in his life he did
eventually.
He was eventually suspendedfrom his position when I was
around 23 years old for some ofhis behavior.
(19:30):
So I mean, like I said, itprogresses yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Explain the concept of dying to oneself from your
perspective.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Okay, well, I learned this in recovery, you know,
when I first got into recovery,they talked a lot about
surrender, you know, and that Ihave to go.
Okay, everything I've beendoing has not been working, and
so that's why I'm here you tellme what to do and I'll do it.
(20:03):
And so, basically, I learnedwhat it was to surrender my food
on a daily basis, to surrenderto the fact that I was powerless
over food and alcohol powerlessover food and alcohol.
And that was the introductionfor me to when I came to.
I went to seminary in.
(20:28):
I was about 15 years, clean, Ihad done a lot of work on my
childhood counseling and allthat stuff.
And I went to seminary and whenI was sitting in Intro to New
Testament we were talking abouttowards the end of the semester,
we were talking about the bookof Revelation and we were
talking about the end times.
And I remember thinking tomyself you know, this entire
semester we've been learningabout how Jesus spoke
(20:49):
metaphorically about pretty mucheverything.
He used parables and symbol totell stories and to share his
messages with people.
And I thought to myself, whatif, instead of like an
apocalyptic sort of end timething, what if?
When he said he was going tocome back, he actually meant for
(21:10):
me.
What if he actually meant I'mgoing to come back for you, it's
going to be personal and I'mgoing to come right for you.
It's going to be personal andI'm going to come right to you?
And I thought, when I had thatthought in my class, I
remembered when he came to meoutside the party and I was like
, oh, I think that's what it was.
I think he was coming back, hewas getting personal with me and
(21:35):
I realized that in running awayfrom him I went into like a
living hell basically is whathappened.
And so that kind of got in mymind and with everything that I
had seen in the world ofrecovery, you know, people's
lives, mine included, changedcompletely.
It's an absolute turnaround.
(21:57):
If you do the work like, if youan absolute turnaround.
If you do the work like, if youget down and dirty and you do
the work in recovery, yourentire life changes.
You're very little what youused to be okay.
So the girl who came torecovery is not the girl who's
sitting here talking to you,right?
And so I asked a professor acouple years later when I
(22:17):
started to think about what mythesis was going to be.
I asked a professor about itand he said it sounds like what
you're talking about iseschatology, and eschatology is
one of the words in the title ofmy book that everybody stumbles
over.
It's a hard word to say, infact, when I told my sister I
was studying it, she said isthat English, you know?
(22:38):
And so I mean, I get it.
It's a hard word, but reallywhat it?
It's the study of the end times.
And what he said to me was youknow, before you write about
this idea that you have, aboutit being personal, you should
probably do a directed study oneschatology and learn all the
different forms of it thattheologians talk about.
(22:58):
And so that's how I started it.
And basically what I learned inall that research and then using
my own personal experience, wasthat this dying to myself.
You know how Jesus says toNicodemus in John, chapter 3, he
says to him you must be bornagain of the Spirit.
(23:20):
And for me this isn't a onceand done thing, because I'm
human, I'm going to continue tomake mistakes.
Take my word for it.
I am going to continue to makemistakes, say stupid stuff.
You know all kinds of things,and so I have to continue to
dying to that part of myselfthat separates me from my
(23:44):
relationship with God, myrelationship with Jesus, my
relationship with the HolySpirit.
Those things must becontinually put, you know, in
the grave.
Enough, jessica, with the ego,enough with the self-righteous
judgment, Enough with whateverit is that's going on inside of
my head that's keeping me fromtruly knowing what God has in
(24:08):
store for me here, from trulyknowing that I am worth whatever
it is that he has in store forme.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, and we all, and I think all myself including,
and I think all my listeners,you know, would probably realize
and agree with you that we allmake mistakes.
You know, we all need to.
You know, repent daily and youknow, as you said, die to
yourself.
You know, daily, yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And it's not for me.
I think one of the things,Dorsey, as you can probably
imagine, that I've reallystruggled with for a long time
is that self-righteous judgment.
You know, like I would just sitin judgment of religious people
.
You know, because I just madethis assumption that they were
all like my father, they wereall hypocrites, they were all
(24:57):
liars, you know, and that's just.
It's not okay.
And so when I, when I go therein my head today because I hate
to say it, but I still do gothere sometimes, you know, not
just about religious people, butanybody, I mean, gosh, you cut
me off on the highway and Icould go there Right, and, and I
have to remember, and I couldgo there right, and I have to
(25:21):
remember, it's not my job tojudge you, it's God's job to
take care of that and in themeantime I lean on him for the
compassion.
I need to have communicationwith people that I would rather
judge right?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure my listeners would love to
know.
You know we talked about you.
You know you walked away fromorganized reliving and you know
for several years, but nowyou're back and you're in
seminary and you're studyingeschatology.
(25:52):
How did that you know all workout?
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Well, you know, I couldn't say no to it anymore.
And by that I mean God startedpoking at me very early in my
recovery with learning aboutJesus.
So I started like I'd go onAmazon and I would just put
books about Jesus or the life ofJesus or spirituality or
(26:21):
whatever, and I just couldn'tget enough.
I just read, read, read all thetime about everything.
And Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who'sone of the great theologians of
all times, wrote a book calledthe Cost of Discipleship.
And I read that book and I sawmyself all over it and I thought
(26:41):
I have to say yes to this, likeI can't say no to this anymore.
And part of the problem was myown.
You know, I was married.
At that point.
My husband had his ideas aboutwhat retirement was going to
look like.
I didn't want to throw in awhole bunch of student debt, you
know, and make you know himhave to sacrifice anything.
(27:04):
You know, I still was kind ofcodependent in my crazy brain in
that way and it took me a whileto finally get the courage to
go to my husband and say, look,I got to do this.
I can't, I can't say no to thisanymore.
And so that's I mean.
I showed up at seminary, I stillwasn't a member of a church.
I just went because I want.
(27:24):
I didn't go to become aminister, I just went because I
wanted to learn it.
And that drove my husband crazy, you know, because he's like
there's no job on the other sideof this, like no, I actually
just want to learn it, you know,and while I was there, I, I was
(27:45):
introduced to spiritualdirection and I fell in love
with it.
I, I just absolutely, and so Igot a certificate in spiritual
direction while I was there and,um, you know, that doesn't pay
the bills either, though, youknow, I mean, that's sort of a
side a side hustle, as theywould say, you know, and so I do
that part-time while I'mwriting now.
I've been doing that part-timeever since I graduated in 2020.
(28:08):
And now we, my husband and I,are members of a church.
We did find a church in ourarea that we both really love
and we just feel at home there,and so there we are.
I mean, who would have everthunk it?
You know that my mind and heartcould open to go back, you know
(28:28):
.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How do you define organized with living?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's a good question.
I never really thought aboutthat.
You know, for a long time myrecovery community was my church
.
You know that I becauserecovery for me anyway.
I go three or four times a week, depending.
I go to a meeting, right, andone of the things I love about
recovery is that there are nooutside issues allowed.
(28:57):
You know, when you go in there,you're not going to talk about
politics, you're not going totalk about who works where or
how many kids they have in there.
You know it's just about we'retrying to recover from this
substance or this family diseaseof alcoholism or whatever it
happens to be that you're therefor.
And it works really well.
(29:17):
As you can imagine, when you'reall focused on the same thing
and you all are united in thatsame thing, it really works well
.
What I learned from that overthe years is that's why church
is a good thing, because whenyou're there you're all united
in Christ.
Or if you're not Christian,whatever place you go to, you're
(29:42):
all united in that same faithtogether.
And I really have recognizedover the years and while I was
in seminary, that not allreligious people are hypocrites,
you know, and in fact a lot ofthem are really great people,
you know, that are also humanand make mistakes, and it's
(30:05):
about loving together andworshiping together the one, the
one who saved our lives, andwhat could be more unifying than
that, you know?
And so it's organized.
We do it once a week, or twicea week, depending on the time of
year, you know, or whatever ithappens to be.
We do service together.
(30:25):
You know, I love the fact thatthere are so many opportunities
in our church to give service tothe community around us and to
share Jesus with the people inour community.
I love that, that.
So, because it's I don't knowabout you, but sometimes I'm a
little, I'm a little shy aboutdoing service or giving service,
(30:45):
and it's so easy to do whenyou're doing it with a group of
people, you know, and yeah, sothat's what it is for me Going
back to for a minute when youwere in seminary and you had no
organized reliving background orchurch background.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You know what?
It's a great question.
It was really weird at first,you know, because a lot of
people that I was there withwere studying to become
ministers, and so if you'restudying to become a minister,
you need to have a churchaffiliation, right.
And so they would all say, like, when we would introduce
ourselves to each other, theywould say something like hi, my
(31:24):
name is Timothy and I am aPresbyterian, you know, or
whatever.
And when it would get to me I'dkind of be like, uh, you know,
I didn't.
But what I started to say wasyou know what my name was?
And then I'd say I follow theway of Christ.
And that was because that washow I lived my life on a daily
(31:46):
basis, to the best of my ability.
But what I found in becoming amember of this church is that,
like anything else, you can't doit alone.
You know it's always better tohave the people around you to
support you and to help youthrough difficult times.
It's going to be difficulttimes and it's always good to
(32:07):
have that supportive peoplearound you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now you mentioned about that.
You studied eschatology and youmentioned that it's the study
of the end times and thatthere's many.
You know people have all typesof ideas and the out.
You know theories of what'sgoing to happen and everything.
How did you come to that studyand did you do you fall in line
(32:34):
with any of those ideas or didyou come up with any of your own
?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Well, you know what I learned, and the two forms of
eschatology that I learned aremost accepted within theological
circles are what they callapocalyptic eschatology, which
would be like the book ofRevelation.
You know, it's a thing that'sgoing to happen in the future,
sort of a prophecy type thing,and it's going to happen all at
(33:06):
once, you know, like for thewhole world, for the whole earth
.
Then there's also what theycall realized eschatology, and
that you'll see a lot in theGospel of John, where Jesus says
often the time is now, it is,you know, like when he says the
(33:26):
time is now, it is happening now.
That's like he was, I believe,at that point.
He was saying it is the endtimes right now.
Because I'm here, I'm here, I'mright in front of you, it's
going to happen before some ofyou in this generation even pass
away, you know.
So that's what they would callrealized eschatology.
(33:48):
And then what I use and I'm notsaying that either one of those
are wrong, that's not what I'msaying because I don't know, I'm
not God right but when I wasgrowing up, those things were
very scary to me.
You know, it was really scaryto me.
A lot of the movies of mychildhood and everything were
(34:11):
just scary about the end times,right.
And so when I thought of it,maybe being personal, you know,
maybe Jesus meant he was goingto come back just for me, you
know, and maybe he meant he wasgoing to come back just for you.
And maybe if we ran away like Iran away, there would be really
bad times because we ran awayfrom him, we turned from him and
(34:32):
ran.
That's what happened to me.
I had a horrible, I would saysix-year bottom in my addictions
, but what happened when I didfinally accept him as my Lord
and Savior was woo.
My hair blew back.
And you know, I'm not sayinglife is all you know roses today
(34:52):
, because there are really hardmoments.
But I have a piece in my heartthat I can't explain other than
to say it's amazing, it's morethan anything I ever could have
imagined.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, one of the last questions I'd like to ask my
guest is can you share with us aword of encouragement or word
of knowledge to my audience, or?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
would have knowledge to my audience.
You know what I would say thatif you don't already like you
know, our society is very andthis is my opinion our society
is very centered on the self.
You know, do you haveself-confidence?
(35:41):
You need more self-esteem.
You know, like those types ofthings and while those aren't
horrible things, you know, I'veactually stopped putting self in
front of those words and I saytoday that I have God confidence
.
You know, I have God esteem.
I know that God can do anythingthrough me, right.
(36:06):
And so when I'm here talking toyou, I have God confidence in
talking to you.
I didn't wake up and go, I cando it.
You know, I woke up and Iprayed and I said God, please
help me, help me to carry yourmessage today.
That's my goal in life and Iguess so that's what I would say
is that if you're reallystriving to have self-confidence
(36:26):
and self-worth and self-esteem,you know, pray first, pray
first and ask God for hisconfidence to work through you.
And even if it's just, you know, when I first started really
praying again when I got intorecovery, it was very simple.
You know, my prayers were verysimple.
Praying again when I got intorecovery, it was very simple,
you know.
My prayers were very simple,like please help me, god.
You know, I didn't even reallyknow what to ask for, but I knew
(36:49):
, he knew, you know, and so Ibasically just would throw the
prayers out there and let him dohis thing.
You know, and that's what it'sabout.
It's about trusting that he'sgot a plan for you.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Amen, you know, and that's what it's about.
It's about trusting that he'sgot a plan for you, amen.
Well, jessica, again, thank youso much for coming on the show.
And one last thing.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
where can people pick up your book?
I actually have two books nowand they're both on Amazon.
You can find them.
I have an author page there,but I also have my own website
If you want to learn more aboutspiritual direction or even
contact me.
All that information is there.
It's just JessicaLMorriscom.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Well again, thank you so much for coming on the show.
We greatly appreciate havingyou and having you share your
story.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Thank you, dorsey, it's been a true pleasure.
Thanks story.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Thank you, dorsey, it's been a true pleasure.
Thanks Well, guys and girls,thank you so much for coming on
the show and listening againtoday.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Please go and check outJessica's website and until next
time, god bless.
Bye-bye.
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorserosShow.
Today we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Jessica Morris.
She is an author, spiritualdirector and huge fan of Jesus.
Her most recent book, higherPowered, reaches deep into the
(00:24):
soul of every reader to excavatethe crap that gets in the way
of a personal relationship withthe higher power.
Jessica's honesty andvulnerability invite the reader
to let it all hang out in orderto take the first step into
(00:45):
freedom from the bondage of self, and just wait until you hear
her talk about it.
Thank you, jessica, for comingon the show.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you, Dorsey.
It's great to be here with youtoday.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I always like to start off with my podcast with
an icebreaker question, andtoday's icebreaker question is
what's your favorite way tospend a day off?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh well, there's got to be a nap somewhere Somewhere
within the day I need to betaking a nap, because I
absolutely love naps.
So that would be scheduled into make sure I got it.
But right now a day off is oddfor me because I quit my 30-plus
(01:35):
year career job in November sothat I could start really making
a go of the writing ministrythat I believe I've been called
to, and so there's not a lot ofdays off in total.
But I will say that one of thethings that I love to do with my
husband is when he's home fromwork on the weekends.
(01:58):
We just absolutely lovewatching comedians silly,
ridiculous comedians ontelevision football you know
there'd have to be some footballin there.
We're really big on just beingtogether, you know, like we
don't have to do anything crazy.
We used to have a HarleyDavidson motorcycle we're both
getting a little too old forthat now but we used to love
(02:21):
just going on rides, you know,and and just we didn't even have
to be going anywhere, justgoing and being together, and so
, yeah, I would say I would dosomething with my husband and or
my big sister her name's Bea,and she practically raised me
and so I'd probably go to themovies with her.
So we'd need probably about 48hours on that day off to get
(02:42):
everything in, okay.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What sparked your interest in your writing and you
know, in what you're doing now.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
You know, dorsey, I've been doing this my whole
life, without even knowing it.
I've been using writing as asort of a self-therapy, I guess
you could say, because when Iwrite I feel so connected.
I feel so connected to God whenI'm writing whether I'm writing
poetry, journal writing or evenwhen I was writing, you know,
(03:16):
research papers for school orwhatever I just when I'm
researching and I'm puttingthings together like that, that
is really where the juices areflowing.
And so the cleaner I got in myrecovery from addictions, the
more I felt pulled to be doingmore and more and more of this.
And so my interest really iskind of selfish in a way,
(03:37):
because I feel closer to Godwhen I'm doing it and I love
that feeling and I recognizethat I really believe with every
ounce of my soul that he wantsme, god wants me to be doing
this and he wants me to becarrying his message through my
story.
And so I'm doing that the bestthat I can, and I really love it
(03:58):
.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
What's something that you wish you would have known
10 years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What's something that you wish you would have known
10 years ago?
Ooh, 10 years ago.
Well, let's see, ooh, wow,something.
I you know what 10 years ago.
I knew this in my head 10 yearsago, but it hadn't traveled to
(04:26):
my heart yet.
I knew from my recoveryprograms that ego, my ego is
usually going to get in the wayof me being successful, of me
having a strong relationshipwith God.
I knew that up here, but ittook a long time for it to
travel down to my heart.
So I guess what I wish that Icould tell that girl is to
(04:51):
really listen more.
You know, because she thoughtshe knew a lot.
You know, that was right when Iwas starting seminary I think I
was about my first year inseminary and she thought she had
it all together, she knew whatwas going on.
And really, you know, what Ilearned when I graduated from
seminary is how much I don'tknow and how much I will never
(05:11):
know.
You know, and that has been oneof the greatest lessons of my
life.
You know, because me walkingaround thinking I know things is
not going to help anybody.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Can you share with us some of your story and what you
have been through in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Sure, you know, I grew up a lot of this actually
is even on the back jacket of mybook but I grew up in a
Methodist minister's home.
My dad was a Methodist ministerand my mom was a schoolteacher,
and we lived in a very smalltown.
I grew up in the 70s, the 70sand 80s, and so it was a very
(05:58):
different time in the world.
You know, we didn't all have acell phone attached to our hand,
you know.
In fact, if you wanted to talkto someone, usually definitely
they had to be home, and you hadto be home in order to talk to
them on the phone.
So life was very different, andin that very small town where I
(06:18):
lived, everyone, everything wealways did as kids, always got
back to our parents, you know,because my dad was the minister
and my mom was the teacher atthe school, and in addition to
that, though, so that's likeyour normal preacher's kid kind
of growing up right.
And then my dad, on top of allof that, was an alcoholic, and
anyone who knows anything aboutalcoholism knows that it only
(06:41):
gets worse over time, knows thatit only gets worse over time,
and so, over time, my fatherbecame increasingly angry,
withdrawn, abusive.
You know like, and when I sayabusive I don't just mean
physically.
There was physical abuse, but alot of it was emotional abuse
and mental abuse, and that, tome, is actually more damaging.
(07:03):
That was more damaging to me,like I'd rather you beat me up
than say anything to me.
That's going to mess with mymind because for the rest of my
life those messages are there.
And so that's that.
I was the youngest of four inthat family.
Early on in my life my fathertold me that I was a mistake,
that my parents hadn't plannedme, and he used the word mistake
(07:25):
, and so that's pretty much whatI thought of myself my whole
life.
I figured my dad's the minister, and he said that.
So God must believe that alsobecause I just equated minister
and God together.
And so that's how I grew up andI hated what he did to our
family with his drinking Like Iwould.
(07:47):
Even as a young girl.
I knew that the drinking wentwith the icky times.
You know like.
I couldn't figure out exactlywhy, but I knew whenever he
drank beer or whenever he had adrink, things did not go well,
(08:08):
not go well, and I promisedmyself I would never be like him
.
And what happened was I becameexactly like him.
You know I used food andalcohol both they were both my
addictions.
And you know I rationalized itmy entire time drinking, I
rationalized that I was havingfun.
You know my dad was a jerk.
I was having fun, you know, andthat's how I rationalized it
(08:30):
growing up and, luckily for me,I got into recovery at the age
of 29.
A lot of people are not thatyoung when they find it, but I
had some really wonderful peoplein my life who weren't going to
let me fail, you know, and theytold me the truth about what
they saw.
My older sister told me she sawa lot of our father in me,
(08:53):
which broke my heart.
I couldn't believe she wassaying that to me.
And I look back now and I thinkit's one of the most loving
things anybody ever said to me.
I needed to hear it.
And then I had a counselor whosent me to recovery.
She said you know, you have alot of issues from your
childhood that we need to workon for sure, but none of it's
going to work until you putthese substances down.
(09:17):
There's a lot that happened inbetween, but I don't want to go
on a drunk-a-log, as they say,you know.
But since then I have beenfinding my way back to yeah, my
way back to the true God of myheart.
(09:38):
You know, as a child I was veryafraid of God.
I always could identify withJesus because I saw Jesus as a
lot like me, you know.
I know this isn't what happened, but I saw Jesus as being
abused by his father, you know,and so I knew Jesus understood
(09:59):
me.
But at the age of 18, when Iwent to college, I walked away
from organized religion.
I couldn't trust anybody whowas involved with organized
religion because I just assumedeverybody was like my father.
You know, I put a label on itright away.
I put a label on it right awayand even though I never stopped
(10:36):
praying, I really I just wascompletely separated and I will
share with person who went backto party with the people who are
still at college and I wasoutside of a party it was
January, it was freezing cold,nobody was with me because it
was so cold and I was smoking acigarette and I looked up at the
sky and it was just a billionstars and I was so angry.
(10:58):
I was so angry and I juststarted telling God off.
I mean, I really just startedlike out loud swearing at God.
When do I get my turn?
When do I get a good life?
You know, why are you doingthis to me?
All those just selfish,self-centered things.
And, dorsey, I hope you canunderstand this.
(11:22):
I don't know how to explain itto people and sometimes when I
tell people this, they look atme like I'm crazy.
So try not to look at me likeI'm crazy.
And I felt this, like warmthcome over me, and I knew and I'm
(11:43):
going to look straight aheadwhen I say this I knew that
Jesus was standing right here,next to me, like physically
standing here, and that I knewall I had to do was turn my face
to the left and I would see himand I would be able to hug him.
And I felt lovely and wonderful.
(12:05):
And then immediately terrifiedand I ran back into the party.
And it's still horrifying toeven tell this story in that
sense, because I wish I wouldhave turned and given him a big
hug, because I really want to.
I really want to give him a hugright now.
But I had a friend tell meseveral years ago, when I shared
(12:26):
the story with him, that hesaid, Jessica, he knew you were
going to run back into the party, but he came anyway because he
loves you and he wanted you toknow he was there and that he
heard you.
You know, and I get it now.
You know, and that really was.
I didn't know it at the time,but that was the catapult for me
(12:47):
getting to this place wherethis most recent book came from,
and my journey through seminary.
I mean it, all it.
He's been working with me onthis ever since then and I can
see it all.
Of course, I can see it all inhindsight, you know, but my, my
gratitude in it is that he knew.
In that moment, I believe thatI could not see him.
(13:08):
I could not look at him, I hadway too much shame, and so he
sent me messages through all thepeople that guided me in
recovery.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And that's how I found my way back.
Was that night, that moment,was that the turning point in
your recovery, or was itsomething else that was a
turning point for you?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
was a turning point for you.
Well, that was actually.
It was a turning point in thatthe next six years it was about
six or seven years till I got inrecovery after that.
So I continued on the road withmy addictions and it was bad,
like those you know in the Biblewhere Jesus says there will be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.
That's what those six yearsfelt like.
Weeping and gnashing of teeth,that's what those six years felt
(14:00):
like.
I mean the loneliness, theisolation.
I mean it was suicide, wassuicidal.
It was horrible.
And the turning point for mehappened over about a 10 month
period of time, where Imentioned that my older sister
came to me and told me the truthabout what she saw and I got
really angry at her.
You know, I didn't like to hearwhat she was saying because it
(14:21):
was the truth, I needed to hearit.
But I didn't want to hear itand I thought I'll show her, I'm
going to go to a counselor andI'm going to get help with all
my problems and she's going tosee it's got nothing to do with
alcohol.
And so that's the counselor, atthe end of about a 10 month
(14:42):
period, who sent me to recovery.
And so that, truly, and and Iwas desperate enough at that
point because, because thesubstances weren't working for
me anymore, you know like Iwasn't getting a high off of
being drunk, I had troublegetting drunk, my tolerance was
so high I couldn't get anyfulfillment out of the food
(15:04):
anymore, you know, I used toreally get a rush off of it and
I couldn't control my weightanymore.
I was about 150 poundsoverweight and I was 5'4", so
that was not a pretty sight, youknow.
And so it just was.
I would say the turning pointwould be loneliness and
(15:24):
desperation.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You mentioned, you know that while you weren't
going to church, you stillprayed to you know, to God.
You know, and we assume it'sthe you know, the God of the
Bible.
Did you consider when you leftorganized religion?
Did you consider yourself anatheist?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
No, no, I was a really angry.
I was a really angry lover ofJesus.
How's?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
that sound.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I always knew God was there.
I just figured he really didn'tlike me.
That was kind of ourrelationship at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Were you angry at him or for some reason?
Were you angry at him becauseof what happened to you with
your parents and your dad, orwere you just angry with him for
some other reason?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, I was angry that he put me in the family I
was in.
I was angry that he had a manlike my father sharing his
message with others and cominghome.
And I used to say to peopleit's a horrible thing to say,
because I have forgiven myfather and I have, you know,
really I believe I've had awonderful reconciliation with
(16:52):
him.
He's passed away, but I do feellike my father is sort of
guiding me now.
But I used to say to people youknow, my dad was a wonderful
minister.
People loved him in the church.
He was very good at publicspeaking, he was good at
counseling with people, he was alot of fun.
(17:13):
And then he'd come home andbeat the shit out of us.
That's what I used to say topeople and it was all true,
right, but it was a harsh thingto say, knowing what I know now,
you know about alcoholism andhow I don't believe that it was
ever my father's choice to be abad father.
(17:36):
You know, like he didn't growup going.
I'm going to beat the crap outof my family, you know like that
, you know.
But alcoholism takes, takeseverything from us, you know,
including love, includingcompassion, all of it.
So I was mad at God for reallyallowing that.
I remember one time asking mymother because wine was in the
(18:00):
Bible.
They talked about wine in theBible and one of the miracles
was even turning water into wine.
And I remember saying to my momwhy did God even invent wine to
begin with?
Because it was never a funthing in our house, it was
always a problem, and I really Ijust couldn't understand it at
(18:20):
the time.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So it was like, almost like when it comes to you
know, I don't want to you know,this is your story, I don't
want to go back too much to youknow.
So it was almost like a hiddengem for him where only you and
the family knew about it and,you know, wasn't like a public
spectacle where everybody elseknew that the town minister was
(18:43):
a drunk.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well, they knew he drank okay, because he did drink
in public.
But I think because we lived ina very small town, a lot of
blue collar hunter kind of youknow personalities, they loved
that he hung out with them anddrank with them, you know,
because I think it made themfeel better.
(19:07):
He drank and he smoked and hehad a good time and it didn't
get to the really ugly leveluntil he got home.
You know he was always able tosort of control it out there in
the public Right Until later,until later in his life he did
eventually.
He was eventually suspendedfrom his position when I was
around 23 years old for some ofhis behavior.
(19:30):
So I mean, like I said, itprogresses yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Explain the concept of dying to oneself from your
perspective.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Okay, well, I learned this in recovery, you know,
when I first got into recovery,they talked a lot about
surrender, you know, and that Ihave to go.
Okay, everything I've beendoing has not been working, and
so that's why I'm here you tellme what to do and I'll do it.
(20:03):
And so, basically, I learnedwhat it was to surrender my food
on a daily basis, to surrenderto the fact that I was powerless
over food and alcohol powerlessover food and alcohol.
And that was the introductionfor me to when I came to.
I went to seminary in.
(20:28):
I was about 15 years, clean, Ihad done a lot of work on my
childhood counseling and allthat stuff.
And I went to seminary and whenI was sitting in Intro to New
Testament we were talking abouttowards the end of the semester,
we were talking about the bookof Revelation and we were
talking about the end times.
And I remember thinking tomyself you know, this entire
semester we've been learningabout how Jesus spoke
(20:49):
metaphorically about pretty mucheverything.
He used parables and symbol totell stories and to share his
messages with people.
And I thought to myself, whatif, instead of like an
apocalyptic sort of end timething, what if?
When he said he was going tocome back, he actually meant for
(21:10):
me.
What if he actually meant I'mgoing to come back for you, it's
going to be personal and I'mgoing to come right for you.
It's going to be personal andI'm going to come right to you?
And I thought, when I had thatthought in my class, I
remembered when he came to meoutside the party and I was like
, oh, I think that's what it was.
I think he was coming back, hewas getting personal with me and
(21:35):
I realized that in running awayfrom him I went into like a
living hell basically is whathappened.
And so that kind of got in mymind and with everything that I
had seen in the world ofrecovery, you know, people's
lives, mine included, changedcompletely.
It's an absolute turnaround.
(21:57):
If you do the work like, if youan absolute turnaround.
If you do the work like, if youget down and dirty and you do
the work in recovery, yourentire life changes.
You're very little what youused to be okay.
So the girl who came torecovery is not the girl who's
sitting here talking to you,right?
And so I asked a professor acouple years later when I
(22:17):
started to think about what mythesis was going to be.
I asked a professor about itand he said it sounds like what
you're talking about iseschatology, and eschatology is
one of the words in the title ofmy book that everybody stumbles
over.
It's a hard word to say, infact, when I told my sister I
was studying it, she said isthat English, you know?
(22:38):
And so I mean, I get it.
It's a hard word, but reallywhat it?
It's the study of the end times.
And what he said to me was youknow, before you write about
this idea that you have, aboutit being personal, you should
probably do a directed study oneschatology and learn all the
different forms of it thattheologians talk about.
(22:58):
And so that's how I started it.
And basically what I learned inall that research and then using
my own personal experience, wasthat this dying to myself.
You know how Jesus says toNicodemus in John, chapter 3, he
says to him you must be bornagain of the Spirit.
(23:20):
And for me this isn't a onceand done thing, because I'm
human, I'm going to continue tomake mistakes.
Take my word for it.
I am going to continue to makemistakes, say stupid stuff.
You know all kinds of things,and so I have to continue to
dying to that part of myselfthat separates me from my
(23:44):
relationship with God, myrelationship with Jesus, my
relationship with the HolySpirit.
Those things must becontinually put, you know, in
the grave.
Enough, jessica, with the ego,enough with the self-righteous
judgment, Enough with whateverit is that's going on inside of
my head that's keeping me fromtruly knowing what God has in
(24:08):
store for me here, from trulyknowing that I am worth whatever
it is that he has in store forme.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, and we all, and I think all myself including,
and I think all my listeners,you know, would probably realize
and agree with you that we allmake mistakes.
You know, we all need to.
You know, repent daily and youknow, as you said, die to
yourself.
You know, daily, yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And it's not for me.
I think one of the things,Dorsey, as you can probably
imagine, that I've reallystruggled with for a long time
is that self-righteous judgment.
You know, like I would just sitin judgment of religious people
.
You know, because I just madethis assumption that they were
all like my father, they wereall hypocrites, they were all
(24:57):
liars, you know, and that's just.
It's not okay.
And so when I, when I go therein my head today because I hate
to say it, but I still do gothere sometimes, you know, not
just about religious people, butanybody, I mean, gosh, you cut
me off on the highway and Icould go there Right, and, and I
have to remember, and I couldgo there right, and I have to
(25:21):
remember, it's not my job tojudge you, it's God's job to
take care of that and in themeantime I lean on him for the
compassion.
I need to have communicationwith people that I would rather
judge right?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure my listeners would love to
know.
You know we talked about you.
You know you walked away fromorganized reliving and you know
for several years, but nowyou're back and you're in
seminary and you're studyingeschatology.
(25:52):
How did that you know all workout?
How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Well, you know, I couldn't say no to it anymore.
And by that I mean God startedpoking at me very early in my
recovery with learning aboutJesus.
So I started like I'd go onAmazon and I would just put
books about Jesus or the life ofJesus or spirituality or
(26:21):
whatever, and I just couldn'tget enough.
I just read, read, read all thetime about everything.
And Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who'sone of the great theologians of
all times, wrote a book calledthe Cost of Discipleship.
And I read that book and I sawmyself all over it and I thought
(26:41):
I have to say yes to this, likeI can't say no to this anymore.
And part of the problem was myown.
You know, I was married.
At that point.
My husband had his ideas aboutwhat retirement was going to
look like.
I didn't want to throw in awhole bunch of student debt, you
know, and make you know himhave to sacrifice anything.
(27:04):
You know, I still was kind ofcodependent in my crazy brain in
that way and it took me a whileto finally get the courage to
go to my husband and say, look,I got to do this.
I can't, I can't say no to thisanymore.
And so that's I mean.
I showed up at seminary, I stillwasn't a member of a church.
I just went because I want.
(27:24):
I didn't go to become aminister, I just went because I
wanted to learn it.
And that drove my husband crazy, you know, because he's like
there's no job on the other sideof this, like no, I actually
just want to learn it, you know,and while I was there, I, I was
(27:45):
introduced to spiritualdirection and I fell in love
with it.
I, I just absolutely, and so Igot a certificate in spiritual
direction while I was there and,um, you know, that doesn't pay
the bills either, though, youknow, I mean, that's sort of a
side a side hustle, as theywould say, you know, and so I do
that part-time while I'mwriting now.
I've been doing that part-timeever since I graduated in 2020.
(28:08):
And now we, my husband and I,are members of a church.
We did find a church in ourarea that we both really love
and we just feel at home there,and so there we are.
I mean, who would have everthunk it?
You know that my mind and heartcould open to go back, you know
(28:28):
.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How do you define organized with living?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's a good question.
I never really thought aboutthat.
You know, for a long time myrecovery community was my church
.
You know that I becauserecovery for me anyway.
I go three or four times a week, depending.
I go to a meeting, right, andone of the things I love about
recovery is that there are nooutside issues allowed.
(28:57):
You know, when you go in there,you're not going to talk about
politics, you're not going totalk about who works where or
how many kids they have in there.
You know it's just about we'retrying to recover from this
substance or this family diseaseof alcoholism or whatever it
happens to be that you're therefor.
And it works really well.
(29:17):
As you can imagine, when you'reall focused on the same thing
and you all are united in thatsame thing, it really works well
.
What I learned from that overthe years is that's why church
is a good thing, because whenyou're there you're all united
in Christ.
Or if you're not Christian,whatever place you go to, you're
(29:42):
all united in that same faithtogether.
And I really have recognizedover the years and while I was
in seminary, that not allreligious people are hypocrites,
you know, and in fact a lot ofthem are really great people,
you know, that are also humanand make mistakes, and it's
(30:05):
about loving together andworshiping together the one, the
one who saved our lives, andwhat could be more unifying than
that, you know?
And so it's organized.
We do it once a week, or twicea week, depending on the time of
year, you know, or whatever ithappens to be.
We do service together.
(30:25):
You know, I love the fact thatthere are so many opportunities
in our church to give service tothe community around us and to
share Jesus with the people inour community.
I love that, that.
So, because it's I don't knowabout you, but sometimes I'm a
little, I'm a little shy aboutdoing service or giving service,
(30:45):
and it's so easy to do whenyou're doing it with a group of
people, you know, and yeah, sothat's what it is for me Going
back to for a minute when youwere in seminary and you had no
organized reliving background orchurch background.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You know what?
It's a great question.
It was really weird at first,you know, because a lot of
people that I was there withwere studying to become
ministers, and so if you'restudying to become a minister,
you need to have a churchaffiliation, right.
And so they would all say, like, when we would introduce
ourselves to each other, theywould say something like hi, my
(31:24):
name is Timothy and I am aPresbyterian, you know, or
whatever.
And when it would get to me I'dkind of be like, uh, you know,
I didn't.
But what I started to say wasyou know what my name was?
And then I'd say I follow theway of Christ.
And that was because that washow I lived my life on a daily
(31:46):
basis, to the best of my ability.
But what I found in becoming amember of this church is that,
like anything else, you can't doit alone.
You know it's always better tohave the people around you to
support you and to help youthrough difficult times.
It's going to be difficulttimes and it's always good to
(32:07):
have that supportive peoplearound you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now you mentioned about that.
You studied eschatology and youmentioned that it's the study
of the end times and thatthere's many.
You know people have all typesof ideas and the out.
You know theories of what'sgoing to happen and everything.
How did you come to that studyand did you do you fall in line
(32:34):
with any of those ideas or didyou come up with any of your own
?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Well, you know what I learned, and the two forms of
eschatology that I learned aremost accepted within theological
circles are what they callapocalyptic eschatology, which
would be like the book ofRevelation.
You know, it's a thing that'sgoing to happen in the future,
sort of a prophecy type thing,and it's going to happen all at
(33:06):
once, you know, like for thewhole world, for the whole earth
.
Then there's also what theycall realized eschatology, and
that you'll see a lot in theGospel of John, where Jesus says
often the time is now, it is,you know, like when he says the
(33:26):
time is now, it is happening now.
That's like he was, I believe,at that point.
He was saying it is the endtimes right now.
Because I'm here, I'm here, I'mright in front of you, it's
going to happen before some ofyou in this generation even pass
away, you know.
So that's what they would callrealized eschatology.
(33:48):
And then what I use and I'm notsaying that either one of those
are wrong, that's not what I'msaying because I don't know, I'm
not God right but when I wasgrowing up, those things were
very scary to me.
You know, it was really scaryto me.
A lot of the movies of mychildhood and everything were
(34:11):
just scary about the end times,right.
And so when I thought of it,maybe being personal, you know,
maybe Jesus meant he was goingto come back just for me, you
know, and maybe he meant he wasgoing to come back just for you.
And maybe if we ran away like Iran away, there would be really
bad times because we ran awayfrom him, we turned from him and
(34:32):
ran.
That's what happened to me.
I had a horrible, I would saysix-year bottom in my addictions
, but what happened when I didfinally accept him as my Lord
and Savior was woo.
My hair blew back.
And you know, I'm not sayinglife is all you know roses today
(34:52):
, because there are really hardmoments.
But I have a piece in my heartthat I can't explain other than
to say it's amazing, it's morethan anything I ever could have
imagined.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, one of the last questions I'd like to ask my
guest is can you share with us aword of encouragement or word
of knowledge to my audience, or?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
would have knowledge to my audience.
You know what I would say thatif you don't already like you
know, our society is very andthis is my opinion our society
is very centered on the self.
You know, do you haveself-confidence?
(35:41):
You need more self-esteem.
You know, like those types ofthings and while those aren't
horrible things, you know, I'veactually stopped putting self in
front of those words and I saytoday that I have God confidence
.
You know, I have God esteem.
I know that God can do anythingthrough me, right.
(36:06):
And so when I'm here talking toyou, I have God confidence in
talking to you.
I didn't wake up and go, I cando it.
You know, I woke up and Iprayed and I said God, please
help me, help me to carry yourmessage today.
That's my goal in life and Iguess so that's what I would say
is that if you're reallystriving to have self-confidence
(36:26):
and self-worth and self-esteem,you know, pray first, pray
first and ask God for hisconfidence to work through you.
And even if it's just, you know, when I first started really
praying again when I got intorecovery, it was very simple.
You know, my prayers were verysimple.
Praying again when I got intorecovery, it was very simple,
you know.
My prayers were very simple,like please help me, god.
You know, I didn't even reallyknow what to ask for, but I knew
(36:49):
, he knew, you know, and so Ibasically just would throw the
prayers out there and let him dohis thing.
You know, and that's what it'sabout.
It's about trusting that he'sgot a plan for you.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Amen, you know, and that's what it's about.
It's about trusting that he'sgot a plan for you, amen.
Well, jessica, again, thank youso much for coming on the show.
And one last thing.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
where can people pick up your book?
I actually have two books nowand they're both on Amazon.
You can find them.
I have an author page there,but I also have my own website
If you want to learn more aboutspiritual direction or even
contact me.
All that information is there.
It's just JessicaLMorriscom.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Well again, thank you so much for coming on the show.
We greatly appreciate havingyou and having you share your
story.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Thank you, dorsey, it's been a true pleasure.
Thanks story.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Thank you, dorsey, it's been a true pleasure.
Thanks Well, guys and girls,thank you so much for coming on
the show and listening againtoday.
We greatly appreciate havingyou.
Please go and check outJessica's website and until next
time, god bless.
Bye-bye.
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