May 21, 2025 • 44 mins
What happens when a parent's deeply held Christian values collide with their child's life-altering decisions? Debrah McNinch faced this question head-on when her adult son announced he was transgender in 2017. The pain and isolation that followed became the catalyst for Battle Cry Moms, a prayer movement uniting mothers of prodigal children across denominational lines.
With raw honesty, Debrah shares the journey from devastation to determination, revealing how she navigated the tension between unconditional love and unwavering faith. "I couldn't hate my child enough to get him to heaven, and I couldn't love him straight to hell," she explains, articulating the delicate balance many Christian parents struggle to maintain when their children make choices that conflict with their beliefs.
The conversation tackles the uncomfortable reality that churches often fall short in supporting families through these crises. Many parents find themselves caught between two extremes - reject your child or fully affirm choices against your faith - with little guidance on finding a middle path rooted in both truth and grace. Debrah's experience highlights the urgent need for faith communities to create space for messy realities rather than perpetuating the illusion of perfect Christian families.
Battle Cry Moms now connects over 1,300 mothers worldwide through a private online platform where they can share struggles, find specific support groups, and most importantly, unite in persistent prayer for their children. The community stands on the conviction that while parents cannot force their children back to faith, they can stand in the gap through faithful intercession, armed with Scripture and unwavering hope.
Whether you're personally walking through the heartbreak of a prodigal journey or seeking to better support those who are, this conversation offers practical wisdom, spiritual encouragement, and a powerful reminder that no situation is beyond God's redemptive reach. Join us to discover how persistent prayer and unconditional love can become your battle cry in life's most challenging seasons.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorseyRoss Show.
Today, we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Deborah Minutes.
She is the founder of BattleCry Moms.
Battle Cry Moms was launched inMay of 2021.
(00:20):
It exists for one purpose Formoms to unite in prayer for
their prodigal children.
In June 2017, debra's worldcame crashing down when her son
announced he was transgender.
The days and weeks followinghis announcement were full of
(00:44):
pain, tears and uncertainty asDeborah watched the Christian
values instilled in him fadeaway.
Out of the pain, she would makesure of several things.
(01:10):
She would share her family'sstruggles to offer hope to
others going through the samething.
She would build a community forother moms, like her moms, that
believe that their prodigalswill come home.
She promised to never stopbelieving that God was a God of
miracles and nothing was too bigfor him.
She found a battle cry to bethe answer to all those promises
(01:36):
.
Debra, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me and for having this
important conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Definitely.
Now I'd like to open up with afew, you know, lighthearted
questions, and the first one iswhat's the most interesting
place you ever visited?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
visited?
Okay, well, you know, let methink about that.
These questions always are sohard for me.
You know you prepare for all ofthese and it's the ones you
don't know are coming are thehard.
You know we have traveled justa little bit, but I'm going to
say my favorite place we everwent was Israel.
We were able to take a privatetour of the Holy Land about a
decade or so ago and it wasamazing as you can, and changed
(02:27):
my life and so just it was sointeresting just to see actually
what is going on there now,what went on there thousands of
years ago, and just to kind ofmake the Bible come alive.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Now I hear, I read and I heard that you like to
learn a new skill every year.
Every year, what's a new skillthat you would like to learn
this year, in 2025?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
This year.
I'm still kind of deciding on acouple of things, but I really
want to get into fermentingthings, and so last year we
really took on canning learning,going deeper into learning how
to can and preserve food, andI'm really kind of into the
fermenting game right now, andso I really want to learn more
(03:16):
about how to ferment vegetablesand ferment things and put them
up and all of that kind of goodstuff.
I also, you know, I want tolearn.
I want to keep sewing a littlebit.
I took up a board last year andI really want to continue that
Just hand sewing skill.
I think that's super fun.
So, yeah, I just am all aboutlearning new things, keeping my
(03:39):
brain active, and I just like tobe just like one of those
people that say, yeah, I can dothat.
You know, it's just fun, I cando that, I can do anything.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
What is a photo from F-A-R-M?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, so a long, many, many years ago.
I've always been a photographerand I really got to the point
in my photography that I didn'tenjoy photographing people as
much as I used to, and so, butone thing I always liked to do
was to build sets and collectjunk.
(04:16):
And so I teamed up with a dearfriend of mine that owned a
wedding venue and said, hey,would you like to have a photo
farm on your property?
And so what we do is we set upsets, different sets, and we
they're very elaborate also.
It's just, it's a lot.
(04:37):
We are kind of over the top.
We're known for kind of ourover the top things that we do.
But it allows otherphotographers, or people we call
momographers, to come out anduse our sets and take pictures,
and so they basically they rentour set, and then people can
come out and bring your owncamera or your own photographer
and use our stuff.
So that's what a photo farm is.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay, and you also mentioned in that last answer
that you like to get vintagejunk.
What is the best vintage junkthat you've gotten?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh gosh, I have a love for vintage chairs and
vintage couches, and so you canfind me with vintage furniture.
Okay, so my vintage junk I loveto collect.
I am one of those that will bedriving down the street and
we'll see junk by the curb andyou know I'm like stop the car,
(05:40):
I have to get that.
And so I always like to jokethat I love to see the value in
things that other people throwout, just like Jesus, only with
more glitter.
And so I like to like I.
I can just see anything can bea transformation and there could
be beauty in anything, and so Ilove to collect couches.
I love to collect vintagecouches.
Um, vintage chairs.
(06:02):
I have a thing for old woodenchairs Pretty much.
If it's junky, I'm going to getit.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What sparked your interest in what you do now?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, so as you said in the intro, my world kind of
came crashing down about sevenyears ago when my son announced
that he was transgender.
And up to that point I kind ofwas living this life of.
I had this kind of perfectlittle family and you know, I
thought we were all, everythingwas just unicorns and rainbows
(06:39):
and everything was just goinggreat.
And it wasn't until thatannouncement that I realized
that I was facing something thatwas really big and really hard
and I was all alone in that.
And so at the time, kind of atthat announcement happened.
It really was still thebeginning, kind of the beginning
stages of the movement we seetoday, kind of more.
(07:01):
It's more open and talked about.
It really wasn't kind of backthen, and so at that time I
really didn't know anyone thatwas going through the same thing
I was, and even as far as likehaving prodigal children of any
kind.
I really didn't know of anybodythat had kids that kind of
strayed from the path that waslaid out for them.
(07:22):
I know the church wasn'ttalking about it, I knew that it
wasn't something on a Sundaymorning pastors were really
talking about, and so I foundmyself really just not knowing
what to do, where to turn andwho to talk to.
And so I knew immediately thatI was going to need to find
other moms, moms like me thathad hopes and dreams for their
(07:46):
family and that those changedovernight.
And now they were left to pickup the pieces and figure out is
God still good, does God stilllove me, does God still love my
child, and how can I go forwardin the future?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Can you give a little bit more in of a description of
how you know how, what isbattle cry, moms, and how do
people find you?
And you know, yes, um, aboutthat yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So, as I said at the beginning, I knew I was going to
need to find moms like me.
So originally I joined asecular kind of Facebook group
for people going through similarexperiences and I discovered
really quickly that I probablywasn't a good fit for that group
because I had different valuesand was coming from a whole
(08:39):
different kind of point of view.
But I stayed at it for a longtime because I needed that
community, I needed to know thatthere were other moms going
through the same thing.
And so I started doing someresearch about four years ago to
kind of figure out what thatwould look like, to build my own
social media network.
And I always just say it wasGod just opening up the doors
and showing me where to go andwhen to go and all of that
(09:01):
during that time.
But I started Battle Cry Momsand how it operates is it's its
own little, it's kind of like aFacebook, but it's its own
private community.
It has nothing to do with anyof the major social media
networks.
It's its own little entity byitself.
And I started that so moms likeme would have a place to go and
(09:23):
to connect and to believetogether.
And so within the group.
We have the main group, but wealso have subgroups, and it's
amazing because we have itbroken down for what people are
going through.
So if you have a child thatmaybe is LGBTQ and you're a
Christian and you don't know howto handle that, there's a group
(09:45):
for you.
If you have a child that maybehas some alcohol drug issues,
there's a group for you.
You're going to find other momsgoing through the same thing
that will be able to speak lifeinto you and to be able to help
you on this journey, and maybeyou just have a kid that simply
doesn't believe.
We have a group for you.
And so within our main group wehave lots of subgroups and so
(10:07):
there's going to be somebodythat you can connect with once
you get in.
And so how you find us is weare battlecrymomscom.
When you come to the main page,it will say like click to join,
something like that, and thenwhen you click that, it's going
to ask you five questions.
And then when you click that,it's going to ask you five
questions, and I personally gothrough every request to join
(10:28):
the group and I say yes or no,depending on how people kind of
answer the questions, becausewe're a very private group.
What we do in the group, wewant to stay private and secure
and we only want people therethat have the same prayer
concerns and the same valuesthat we have going into what our
(10:49):
kids are going through, and sowe have over 1,300 moms right
now that join us from all overthe world.
We have people from overseasthat have joined us, but it's a
very diverse group.
We have all denominations wehave anywhere, I always joke
from Lutherans and Catholics toPentecostals, and so we have all
kinds of craziness going on inthere at any given time, but we
(11:12):
stay united.
We don't discuss politics, wedon't discuss current events.
We discuss our children, andthat's the focus of our group.
We pray for our kids and wepost verses and songs and
different things to encourageeach other all of the time, and
that's where our focus is withBattle Cry Moms.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I know a friend of mine.
He had a son who was a prodigaland he is now home, and he's
been home several years now andyou know, I'm thinking to myself
, man, I wonder if she had anytype of support for any type of
(11:51):
people that she was surroundedby to help her during that time.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Exactly.
I found in my case there werenot really a lot of people that
knew what to do.
Nobody knew what to say to me.
Pastors didn't know kind ofwhat to do in my situation, and
so there just wasn't a lot ofinformation out there.
We have started, a couple ofyears ago, a battle cry dads
(12:18):
group, and so if you'relistening to this also and
you're a dad, there's a groupfor you.
I will say it's very, verysmall.
I cannot get the dads to join.
The dads aren't joiners, likemoms are joiners.
But I know the Lord's got plansfor that group, and so we just
keep inviting people to come,and one day it's going to be a
powerful group as well, and sothere's power in having a group.
(12:40):
I call them our mat carriers.
It's like the story of theparalytic in the Bible when it
took four friends to get thisperson down in front of Jesus.
I need friends.
I need people to help me get mychild in front of Jesus, and so
we need mat carriers in ourlife, people that are going to
partner with us to get our kidsback to the kingdom of God.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Amen.
What is it like being aChristian and the mother of a
transgender child?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's a great question and it depends on the
day, probably, how I couldanswer that question.
But the right answer to say upfront is my kid is my kid and I
made the decision at thebeginning that I heard the Lord
clearly say to me it was my jobto love my child and it was his
(13:30):
job to save him, and so I havenever wavered in my love and
support of my child.
But at the same time I havedifferent values and I come from
a different place and so I hadto learn to find my voice where
at the first I was really kindof full of shame and
embarrassment and it wasn'tshame and embarrassment, I
(13:54):
always like to say, it hadnothing to do with his decision
the shame and embarrassment wasthat we go to these churches and
we have to have the perfectlittle family and we have to
pretend the perfect littlefamily and we have to pretend
like everything is okay.
And then, when it wasn't okay,when I realized I had a child
that now didn't really fit intothe pew, like maybe he would
(14:15):
have before, I was embarrassedbecause I somehow felt like
people were looking at me likewhat did that mother?
Do you know what?
Where did she go wrong?
She must have done something.
And so it was a lot of likeholding my head just trying to
lift up my eyes every Sunday tosee the Lord, with kind of the
shame and embarrassment I feltlike the church was kind of
(14:37):
putting on me.
And you know, at the beginning Iwrite about in the book I wrote
about, all of this is I foundthere were two camps in the
church and there was the camp Icall it door A that said what
these kids are doing is wrongand you have to turn them out
and you have to.
You know, just love them fromafar and let them go.
(15:00):
And then there was this campover here that said there's
nothing wrong with what they'redoing, just love them.
Everybody, god loves everybody,you know, in affirming the
decision.
And so I found myself kind ofstuck in the middle of these two
camps going.
You know, I love my child yes,absolutely.
But to not talk to him and totreat him any differently
(15:21):
because of this decision, thatjust didn't feel right to me.
But to affirm and lie to himand say this wasn't going to
affect possibly eternalsalvation, that didn't feel
right to me either.
And so I had to just decide Icouldn't love my child anymore
enough, you know, to get him toheaven.
(15:42):
I mean, I couldn't hate mychild enough to get him to
heaven.
I couldn't like there wasnothing I could do to like turn
him out and hate him enough tolike that was going to like
somehow get him in with betterwith God, but at the same time,
I wasn't going to love himstraight to hell.
I was going to tell him thetruth.
And so I had to find out how tolove my child where he was at
(16:04):
and be the hands and feet ofJesus, but sometimes do that
through my actions and not mywords.
And so, and it's all aboutlearning to lay our kids down,
and I think that was one thing Iwasn't personally taught, maybe
with the church.
I love to joke that we dedicatebabies and pray Jeremiah 29, 11
over them.
(16:24):
You know that they're going tohave a hope and a future, and
that really has nothing to dowith high school graduations and
you know, and baby dedications,but we use that verse.
But what we don't know is thatverse yeah, you know, jeremiah,
he had a hope and a future.
God was saying I have a, I havethis for you but you're going
to be in captivity for a while.
And so we kind of failed tomention that to parents when we
(16:45):
pray that verse over their kids.
And so I had to learn how to laymy child down and I had to
believe that God had a plan andthat he was never going to stop
pursuing my child, just like henever stopped pursuing me.
And I had to learn just to lethim go.
Let him go and let God and justlove my kid right where he was
(17:06):
at.
And I refuse to believe.
I love the story in the Biblewhen it talks about Rachel and
she refused to be comforted.
I had to refuse to be comforted.
There wasn't anything anybodycould say to me that was going
to make this better.
There wasn't any little verse.
I was just going to pray and Iwas just going to you know it
was all going to go away.
(17:26):
I had to refuse to be comfortedand I had to stay in that place
.
And I have to stay every dayinto that place of just
intercession, prayer and beliefthat God has got this and
somehow some way he is going tomake all of this right and that
Satan.
One thing we say in my group, alot is.
No one fights alone and Satanis not going to have our
(17:48):
children.
He's not, and we refuse tobelieve it that he's going to.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
You mentioned the two camps or two sides for the
cookies.
We even see it today.
You know more and more.
Even see it today.
You know more and more.
We see it today.
Yes, and did you ever talk to,you know, a pastor, talk to
church members or whatnot, totry to understand why there is
(18:19):
that you know?
Conundrum of the two sidesRight.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
First, the side that you are talking about Right, you
know, early on I made somecontact with you know, my pastor
and whatever, and was just kindof not given good advice and I
just I've realized that I canpull right now.
I could go to any churchwebsite and I could pull up
(18:44):
where they stand on any issuethat we're talking about and I
could tell you if they think mychild's going to heaven or hell
and we have drawn the line inthe sand, which is fine.
I have no problem with churchespreaching the truth and
standing up for what is right.
That's never been my problem.
My problem is, if we honestlybelieve that these decisions are
(19:09):
separating our children frometernal, you know, glory with
our Savior, then what are wedoing to pray them home?
How come we're not on our facesevery single Sunday at the
altar crying out for thesechildren?
And that's what my kind of myproblem became was I wasn't
(19:29):
seeing any kind of prayermovement or any kind of like
movement to believe thesechildren are coming home.
It was like we stopped atcondemnation but we didn't
believe that God could somehowtransform them and there was no
teaching, if you will, orinstructing parents, because
there's parents just like me,there's parents probably
(19:51):
listening right now to thispodcast, saying, gosh, I am
going through the same thing, orI know somebody going through
the same thing, and there'snobody talking about this.
This is an issue the church issilent about, and so it's just
time that we as a church thecapital C church start talking
(20:13):
about hard issues and startstanding with our parents for
the things that they're goingthrough.
And I know, at the beginning,one time I was at a Bible study
and I was with people I had beenin this Bible study for a while
and I loved everybody in thisBible study, but I had never
(20:33):
felt comfortable to tell mystory.
No one knew what I was goingthrough.
And one week the conversationwent to LGBT issues and I
started hearing things thatthese people that I loved and
was sitting around the tablewith saying you know things like
well, we send our kids toprivate school because we don't
(20:56):
want our kids around those kids.
And there was something in methat clicked that night when I
heard the word those kids that Iknew it was time that I had to
get over myself and I had tostand up and be a voice for
parents everywhere that aregoing through hard things, that
want people to stand with themin prayer and to believe their
(21:18):
kids are coming home, and so wehave to get to a point that it's
my kids and it's your kids andI want the best for your family
as much as, hopefully, you wantfor my family, and we're not
going to stop praying andbelieving until all of our kids
are home.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
How old was your son when he had this discussion with
you?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
He was an adult and, in my situation, an adult
already out in the world doinghis own thing, all of that.
And so I think it's a wholedifferent discussion.
If maybe you have a child athome, that's a minor living in
your house, I think that's adifferent kind of discussion
(22:01):
from where I'm coming from.
But in my case, you know, mychild was an adult, made an
adult decision, and so, as a lotof our kids do, they make adult
decisions that maybe you're notgoing to agree with.
And, as silly as it sounds, I Iguess I really didn't.
I laugh when I say it becauseit sounds so ridiculous I didn't
(22:23):
realize like they were going tohave a free will to do their
own thing.
It never occurred to me thatlike they would choose anything
other than to like walk with theLord.
So that was my own kind ofnaive like oh well, this is the
way they've been brought up,this is the path they'll follow.
I didn't realize that there wasan enemy after my children and
after my family, and I wishsomebody would have pulled me
(22:45):
aside when my kids were littleand said hey, do you know that
Satan's after your kids?
Because I would have been likewhat are you talking about?
Because I really didn'tunderstand that like I do now.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And what type?
I mean, obviously you're aChristian and you go first and
everything.
What was his walk with Christlike?
Did he have one growing up andyou know, did you have a
discussion with him about thatand say, hey, you know, this is
wrong.
What was that discussion?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
like you know, that's a great question, and I find
that for myself, and even like alot of the parents that are in
my group, that they will all saywe did the right things.
We went to church, they went toyouth group, they went to
Christian school, they went toChristian college, they sang and
worshiped bands, they did allthe right things, and so you
(23:39):
know the works was all there.
So you know the works was allthere.
But I always like to say, if Icould go back and do it again, I
would say I would not take mykids to church.
Well, what I mean by that was Iwouldn't spend all of my time
thinking that a Sunday morningand a Wednesday night, you know,
(23:59):
or a Sunday night, that thosewere going to be enough things.
I would really focus on takingmy children to Jesus.
And so I think that we have toget to a place that we're
teaching them hard things.
We're talking about hard thingswith our kids.
We're talking about how God can, you know, can fix things and
mold things and help you withthings, when sometimes we just
(24:21):
don't talk about those hardthings.
And so when the hard thingscome, they don't know how to
process it and they don't knowhow to fix it because we haven't
allowed them to go through hardthings and let them see how the
Lord can walk with them.
And so, you know, we've hadlots of conversations over the
years and I will say that Ibelieve my child's faith is
(24:41):
strong.
As far as I know, he stillbelieves.
I know he still believes.
I know he still reads the word.
I know that this is a strugglethat he has and, you know, one
of these days it's somehow God'sgoing to take that word,
because all of those things thatwe did, even though they may
(25:02):
not have been enough from astandpoint where I'm at now,
those were seeds that wereplanted into my child, and those
seeds are going to come out andthey're going to grow in due
season, and so I just keepwatering those seeds.
One of the things we pray inour group is that, you know, god
would remind our kids of everysermon they ever heard, every
worship song they ever sang,every prayer, they ever prayed.
(25:24):
That he would bring that totheir minds, that he would
remind them of who they are inHim, that they would never
forget where their roots are.
And so we have had lots ofconversations about that and
it's hard, but I do still seesome fruit there.
I just have to believe that indue season God's going to
(25:45):
multiply that and bring it forth.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Do you ever see any type of government from people,
either in the church, yourfamily or your friends?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
you know, I think everybody has an opinion on this
.
Everybody's got a differentopinion and I'm going to be
honest, I had a differentopinion about it seven years ago
.
I had to, kind of.
You know, I have always beenthe person that have.
Um, I've always told God, youknow that I'm going to let the
theologians hash that out.
(26:20):
I'm just going to love people.
I don't want to think about it.
I'm going to let.
I'm going to let thetheologians hash that out.
I'm just going to love people.
I don't want to think about it.
I'm going to let people smarterthan myself think about all
those kind of hard things.
I'm going to just love peoplewhere they're at.
And it wasn't until that droppedinto my lap that I was forced
to kind of get in the fight anddecide.
And so I knew that, especiallyright now, kind of politically,
(26:44):
you know, it's so hard becausewe talk about like things like
bathroom issues and you know,transgender people going in the
wrong bathroom and how peoplethat stirs them all up so much
and I completely understand that.
But then at the same time, as amom, I get worried about my
(27:05):
child going in the wrongbathroom, also because of
retaliation and violence againsthis lifestyle, and so it's
really hard because there'speople that think this, you know
, and can just ignore it and goon.
And then there's the peoplethere's that strong kind of
group of people that think this,you know, and can just ignore
it and go on.
And then there's the peoplethere's that strong kind of
(27:25):
group of people that think thisand act violent toward this
community, and so, as Christians, you know, next time you're,
you know, scrolling social mediaand you see this issue talked
about in an article go to thecomment section and see the
Christians and some of thethings they say, and it's
absolutely mind blowing, um,what, what we say and what we
(27:47):
allow to come out of our mouthsagainst, you know, children of
God, and so, um, you know, I, Ithink I get it Like I understand
the issue and I understand whypeople think the way they do, um
, and I understand some of therules and laws and things we
have and I completely wouldagree with those.
But at the end of the day, Ithink sometimes we all have to
(28:08):
remember that there really aregood people caught in some
deception and a lie, and thisseems to be the issue the church
really likes to focus on theydon't want to talk about.
You know all the sins that wehave on the inside.
You know we don't want to talkabout.
You know all the sins that wehave on the inside, you know we
don't want to talk about.
You know our obesity problemand we don't want to talk about.
You know pornography and wedon't want to talk about sex
(28:31):
outside of marriage and thosetypes of things.
You know we only really like tofocus on this one issue of the
church.
It's always kind of comical tome that that's kind of what we.
That's the one thing that kindof, you know gets us all cranked
up.
And there's so many otherthings that we need to be
praying about and worrying abouttoo.
But you know, I know I have cometo a place that if I see, maybe
(28:56):
, a transgender person when I'mout in public, and even if I see
him in the wrong bathroom whenI'm out in public, I have about
a 30-second window to make adecision.
You know I pray every day thatGod would put somebody in front
of my child that would speaklife over him, someone that
would prophesy to his future,wherever he is at, that he would
(29:16):
run into somebody that wouldsee who he is in the Lord and he
would prophesy that to him.
And so when I see somebody, Icould get mad and I could say
some mean things about you're inthe wrong bathroom, or I could
take one minute to remind thatperson.
God sees you, god is stillchasing you down and you can't
outrun his love.
And I could take those 10seconds that I have and speak
(29:38):
life over that person.
And so I think sometimes wehave to get over ourselves.
We have to close our eyes andforget the things we're seeing,
and we have to see through totheir hearts.
We can't talk to their heads.
We have to start talking totheir hearts.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
What would you say?
You know you said a little bitthere that you know talking to
the transgender person andsaying you know God loves you
and God, you know, has a plan.
You know, whatever you say tothat person, obviously you know
we may not want to start offthat way, we may want to build a
friendship with that person,but once we get to that spot
(30:16):
that we feel comfortable sayingthat to them, what would you say
to the person that's speakingto the transgender person?
If they get a rebuttal of, well, how can God love me if he's
going to send me to hell for thelifestyle that I have?
What would you say to thatperson?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, I think I would say the same thing that I would
if I was talking to a drugaddict or an alcoholic.
You know God, he forgives oursins as far as the east is from
the west.
We all know that that, andthere is nothing that can
separate us from the love of God.
And so it's all about surrenderand and trust.
And so, as a person, if I'mspeaking to somebody, you know
(31:03):
it's it's that, come and see.
It's that, try and see.
It's that.
Trust me, do you trust me?
You know, but God is sayingthat to all of us every single
day.
You know, do you trust me?
Do you trust me with my planfor your life?
And, like you said, it's aboutbuilding a relationship.
You can't speak into somebody'slife without relationship.
You can't.
(31:24):
They won't hear it, but wecan't get relationship if we
can't get past what someone iswearing on the outside.
And so we all have to do betterabout building relationships
with people that look differentfrom us and learning to love
them and see them like God seesthem.
I often think you know, when Godsaid you know he looks at our
heart, he doesn't look at theoutside, that verse is for this
(31:47):
day and age that he is seeingpeople's hearts, that he's not
stopping right here, he's notstopping with what's on the
outside.
He's going on through andseeing somebody's heart.
And so you know, I think it'sjust about building a
relationship and loving peopleright where they're at.
I can't fix anything, andthat's kind of the, at the end
of the day, what I have toremember.
(32:07):
If there was something I couldsay or something I could do or
somewhere I could go that wouldfix this for people, I would
already have done it.
It's the Holy Spirit, it's thekindness of God that brings us
to repentance, and so we have tointroduce God in his kindness
and his love.
But if we're only tellingpeople how much he hates them
(32:29):
all the time, they're nevergoing to know how much he loves
them.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You're married and you have other sons as well.
What has that experience beenlike?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
been like.
You know everybody comes fromthis differently, and you know I
still.
You know we're living this outin real time and so sometimes,
you know, it's easy to talkabout things and sometimes it
still gets a little emotionalkind of when you're, because I'm
living it out in real time.
These are real families caughtin real problems, and so I think
men handle it differently.
My husband definitely has hisown story.
(33:08):
It comes from this at adifferent angle than I come at
it, and I have two otherchildren and you know they're
divided One supports and onedoes not.
And so you know you go frombeing this tight knit family to
being this, where nobody talks.
Well, what that means is, youknow I don't have Christmas
(33:29):
dinners anymore, I don't get,you know, vacations with my
grandkids and my family, and youknow all these things that we
plan and think of those arethings that I don't have access
to anymore because my lifechanged in this moment, and so
you know it's just hard.
And so next time you knowyou're at church on Mother's Day
(33:51):
and you're looking around atall of the beautiful families
with their kids, you know, justknow that there's some mob
sitting on the back row.
That's hurting.
That doesn't have that, and Ithink we just all have to
realize that there's a lot ofhurting people out there.
And Satan comes from one thing.
We all know what that is tosteal and to kill and to destroy
(34:11):
, and we have to remember thatwe're not mad at each other.
This isn't a fight against eachother.
This is a fight against Satanand his demons that come to
steal, kill and destroy families, and we have to remember that
we have authority over him andwe're going to start taking
authority in our families andcasting him down the strongholds
that he has over our familiesand our kids, because he has no
(34:33):
authority in our families.
Because, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord and I say
that every morning.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Amen.
What would you tell anotherparent that has similar
experiences with their child,regardless of your situation or
another situation, with theirprodigal child?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yes, you're not alone .
That would be my first thingthat I would say to them is you
are not alone.
That is a lie from the pit ofhell that Satan has whispered to
you that you're the only onegoing through this.
You are not alone, and so wewould love to have you join our
group.
We would love for you to havecommunity with Battle Cry Moms
(35:15):
and stand together with us as wepray for our families and
believe for them to come back.
You know it's just hard, like wetalked about.
It's hard because you know,when you show up on a Sunday
morning, you look at all theother families and you realize
yours looks different and itstarts putting the shame on you.
But it says in Revelation thatwe will overcome by the blood of
the Lamb and the word of ourtestimony.
(35:37):
I would encourage you right nowto be brave, to stand up.
Go tell your pastor, go tellyour friends at church, go tell
them on a Sunday morning, say Ineed to tell you what we're
going through as a family and Ineed this church to stand with
me to believe my kid is cominghome.
Be brave and speak up.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What do you think a church can do better to help
parents that have prodigalchildren?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, that's a loaded question.
I will say that I have lived innine different places, nine
different moves in differentstates, and I have been to a lot
of churches and I can honestlysay I have never been to a
church that had a whole Sundaydedicated just to praying for
the prodigals.
(36:28):
And so first, if you arelistening to this and you're a
pastor, have a prodigal Sunday,have a prodigal Thursday, have a
prodigal Tuesday, it doesn'tmatter what day of the week it
is, but pick a day every month,every year, whatever it is, and
pray for the prodigals.
Give space for parents to comeand say that this is what we're
(36:50):
going through.
Give space to people to sharein their pain.
Don't have that country clubwhere everybody has to come and
pretend their lives are perfectbecause they're not.
People are hurting.
Reach out to your community,reach out to other churches and
say, hey, we have a supportgroup here at our church that
meets once a month and prays forthe prodigals.
Come join us, but we have toget in the game.
(37:12):
So if I was talking to a pastorright now, I would say how are
you in the game?
How are you serving parentsthat have prodigal children?
Serving parents that haveprodigal children and then go
from there.
You can go on my website and Ihave a little group, I call it a
Prodigal Sunday Pack, and youcan order one for your pastor
(37:33):
and I'm going to send him a bookand I'm going to send him some
resources and I'm just going tolay it out and say would you
please have a Prodigal Sunday atyour church?
Could you commit to having aProdigal Sunday this year at
your church?
And that is my goal is thatevery church in America and
around the world will take oneSunday to pray for the prodigals
.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What is one key takeaway for listeners who have
turned in this week?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Again, I would say the one thing I want them to
hear me say is no one fightsalone and that you are not alone
and that we're going to getthrough this, that there is
nothing that is too hard for God, nothing is too hard for God.
And so don't get stuck in theshame of the woulda, coulda,
(38:26):
shouldas and what you wish youwould have done differently.
You know.
Get stuck in praying for thefuture, get stuck in believing
for great things, that God isgoing to somehow, some way, make
this all right and that ourchildren are coming home.
We have got to focus on theprodigals.
You know I always joke that onetime God gave me this vision of
(38:48):
a puzzle, and you know it and Iknow it.
If you're doing a puzzle atyour house and you get down to
one, the last piece, and it'smissing, what do you do?
You are on the floor, you'recrawling around, you're
overturning the couch cushions.
You're like where did thatpiece of the puzzle go?
But the church is.
That's exactly what's happeningin the church today.
We are all ready for therapture.
(39:09):
We're like, ready today to goto heaven?
I know I am.
I'm ready for the rapture, butwe have got.
We're looking at this puzzleand there's that one piece
missing and we're like, oh, youknow what, we can see it, it's
close enough, let's just go andget out of here, but God is
still.
You have to put our kids backinto that puzzle, back into that
one missing piece.
So we have to find theprodigals and bring them home.
(39:31):
It is our job, that's whatwe're supposed to do and that's
what we have to focus on.
If there was one question that Icould have asked you today,
what would that question be andhow would you answer it?
One question would be when thisfirst started for me, I knew
(39:53):
that I was going to have to havea plan.
I knew I was going to have tohave a battle plan, and so in
our group we talk about a battleplan and what that is.
It's an easy five-step plan topray for our children, and so
that's what I would say isyou're going to need a plan, and
the most important step of thatis the word.
Find a verse to stand on foryour kids.
(40:13):
Maybe that's a verse that Godgave you, maybe that's one of
your favorite verses, maybethat's something somebody else
said to you, but pray that verseevery single day over your
child.
Pray that verse.
That's all it takes is oneletter of God's word, and it can
change generations.
God's word is that powerfulthat it just takes one word of
(40:34):
it.
And so find a verse today.
Find a verse today.
Memorize that verse.
Write it everywhere you go.
Write it in your bathroomcabinet.
Write it in your dresser drawer.
Write it on the bottom of yourchute, it doesn't matter.
Write that verse, write iteverywhere you go.
Write it in your bathroomcabinet.
Write it in your dresser drawer.
Write it on the bottom of yourshoe, it doesn't matter.
Write that verse down, memorizeit and speak that over your
child every single day.
Give it to your friends.
(40:54):
Write it on an index card.
If you, if people ask how theycan pray for your family, hand
them that card and say here, Ineed you to pray this verse over
my child.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
And so that's what I would tell people right now is
find a battle plan, get a battleplan and get in the game.
And where can people reach outto you again if they have
questions for you or they wantto join your group?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yes, so you can go to my website, which is
deborahmcninchcom, and I havedifferent resources there.
You can link Battle Cry Momsand Battle Cry Dads on that.
If you can't remember my nameand if you think I can remember
Battle Cry, that's an easy thingto remember it's
battlecrymomscom orbattlecrydadscom,
(41:40):
battlecrymomscom orBattleCryDadscom and connect
with me.
I would love to just talk toanybody that needs a friend to
talk to.
I would love to have coffeewith you.
I would love to come to yourchurch and tell my story.
Thank you so much again forhaving this important
(42:01):
conversation and just believe,never stop believing that our
kids are coming home.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Amen.
Well, thank you again fortuning in to another episode of
the Dorothy Ross Show.
Please go and like Debbie'sinformation and check out her
website.
And until, and please go andcheck out other episodes and my
website as well,wwwdorseylawshowcom.
(42:30):
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on
another episode of the DorseyRoss Show.
Today, we have a special guestwith us.
Her name is Deborah Minutes.
She is the founder of BattleCry Moms.
Battle Cry Moms was launched inMay of 2021.
(00:20):
It exists for one purpose Formoms to unite in prayer for
their prodigal children.
In June 2017, debra's worldcame crashing down when her son
announced he was transgender.
The days and weeks followinghis announcement were full of
(00:44):
pain, tears and uncertainty asDeborah watched the Christian
values instilled in him fadeaway.
Out of the pain, she would makesure of several things.
(01:10):
She would share her family'sstruggles to offer hope to
others going through the samething.
She would build a community forother moms, like her moms, that
believe that their prodigalswill come home.
She promised to never stopbelieving that God was a God of
miracles and nothing was too bigfor him.
She found a battle cry to bethe answer to all those promises
(01:36):
.
Debra, thank you so much forcoming on the show today.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me and for having this
important conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Definitely.
Now I'd like to open up with afew, you know, lighthearted
questions, and the first one iswhat's the most interesting
place you ever visited?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
visited?
Okay, well, you know, let methink about that.
These questions always are sohard for me.
You know you prepare for all ofthese and it's the ones you
don't know are coming are thehard.
You know we have traveled justa little bit, but I'm going to
say my favorite place we everwent was Israel.
We were able to take a privatetour of the Holy Land about a
decade or so ago and it wasamazing as you can, and changed
(02:27):
my life and so just it was sointeresting just to see actually
what is going on there now,what went on there thousands of
years ago, and just to kind ofmake the Bible come alive.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Now I hear, I read and I heard that you like to
learn a new skill every year.
Every year, what's a new skillthat you would like to learn
this year, in 2025?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
This year.
I'm still kind of deciding on acouple of things, but I really
want to get into fermentingthings, and so last year we
really took on canning learning,going deeper into learning how
to can and preserve food, andI'm really kind of into the
fermenting game right now, andso I really want to learn more
(03:16):
about how to ferment vegetablesand ferment things and put them
up and all of that kind of goodstuff.
I also, you know, I want tolearn.
I want to keep sewing a littlebit.
I took up a board last year andI really want to continue that
Just hand sewing skill.
I think that's super fun.
So, yeah, I just am all aboutlearning new things, keeping my
(03:39):
brain active, and I just like tobe just like one of those
people that say, yeah, I can dothat.
You know, it's just fun, I cando that, I can do anything.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
What is a photo from F-A-R-M?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, so a long, many, many years ago.
I've always been a photographerand I really got to the point
in my photography that I didn'tenjoy photographing people as
much as I used to, and so, butone thing I always liked to do
was to build sets and collectjunk.
(04:16):
And so I teamed up with a dearfriend of mine that owned a
wedding venue and said, hey,would you like to have a photo
farm on your property?
And so what we do is we set upsets, different sets, and we
they're very elaborate also.
It's just, it's a lot.
(04:37):
We are kind of over the top.
We're known for kind of ourover the top things that we do.
But it allows otherphotographers, or people we call
momographers, to come out anduse our sets and take pictures,
and so they basically they rentour set, and then people can
come out and bring your owncamera or your own photographer
and use our stuff.
So that's what a photo farm is.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay, and you also mentioned in that last answer
that you like to get vintagejunk.
What is the best vintage junkthat you've gotten?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh gosh, I have a love for vintage chairs and
vintage couches, and so you canfind me with vintage furniture.
Okay, so my vintage junk I loveto collect.
I am one of those that will bedriving down the street and
we'll see junk by the curb andyou know I'm like stop the car,
(05:40):
I have to get that.
And so I always like to jokethat I love to see the value in
things that other people throwout, just like Jesus, only with
more glitter.
And so I like to like I.
I can just see anything can bea transformation and there could
be beauty in anything, and so Ilove to collect couches.
I love to collect vintagecouches.
Um, vintage chairs.
(06:02):
I have a thing for old woodenchairs Pretty much.
If it's junky, I'm going to getit.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What sparked your interest in what you do now?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, so as you said in the intro, my world kind of
came crashing down about sevenyears ago when my son announced
that he was transgender.
And up to that point I kind ofwas living this life of.
I had this kind of perfectlittle family and you know, I
thought we were all, everythingwas just unicorns and rainbows
(06:39):
and everything was just goinggreat.
And it wasn't until thatannouncement that I realized
that I was facing something thatwas really big and really hard
and I was all alone in that.
And so at the time, kind of atthat announcement happened.
It really was still thebeginning, kind of the beginning
stages of the movement we seetoday, kind of more.
(07:01):
It's more open and talked about.
It really wasn't kind of backthen, and so at that time I
really didn't know anyone thatwas going through the same thing
I was, and even as far as likehaving prodigal children of any
kind.
I really didn't know of anybodythat had kids that kind of
strayed from the path that waslaid out for them.
(07:22):
I know the church wasn'ttalking about it, I knew that it
wasn't something on a Sundaymorning pastors were really
talking about, and so I foundmyself really just not knowing
what to do, where to turn andwho to talk to.
And so I knew immediately thatI was going to need to find
other moms, moms like me thathad hopes and dreams for their
(07:46):
family and that those changedovernight.
And now they were left to pickup the pieces and figure out is
God still good, does God stilllove me, does God still love my
child, and how can I go forwardin the future?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Can you give a little bit more in of a description of
how you know how, what isbattle cry, moms, and how do
people find you?
And you know, yes, um, aboutthat yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So, as I said at the beginning, I knew I was going to
need to find moms like me.
So originally I joined asecular kind of Facebook group
for people going through similarexperiences and I discovered
really quickly that I probablywasn't a good fit for that group
because I had different valuesand was coming from a whole
(08:39):
different kind of point of view.
But I stayed at it for a longtime because I needed that
community, I needed to know thatthere were other moms going
through the same thing.
And so I started doing someresearch about four years ago to
kind of figure out what thatwould look like, to build my own
social media network.
And I always just say it wasGod just opening up the doors
and showing me where to go andwhen to go and all of that
(09:01):
during that time.
But I started Battle Cry Momsand how it operates is it's its
own little, it's kind of like aFacebook, but it's its own
private community.
It has nothing to do with anyof the major social media
networks.
It's its own little entity byitself.
And I started that so moms likeme would have a place to go and
(09:23):
to connect and to believetogether.
And so within the group.
We have the main group, but wealso have subgroups, and it's
amazing because we have itbroken down for what people are
going through.
So if you have a child thatmaybe is LGBTQ and you're a
Christian and you don't know howto handle that, there's a group
(09:45):
for you.
If you have a child that maybehas some alcohol drug issues,
there's a group for you.
You're going to find other momsgoing through the same thing
that will be able to speak lifeinto you and to be able to help
you on this journey, and maybeyou just have a kid that simply
doesn't believe.
We have a group for you.
And so within our main group wehave lots of subgroups and so
(10:07):
there's going to be somebodythat you can connect with once
you get in.
And so how you find us is weare battlecrymomscom.
When you come to the main page,it will say like click to join,
something like that, and thenwhen you click that, it's going
to ask you five questions.
And then when you click that,it's going to ask you five
questions, and I personally gothrough every request to join
(10:28):
the group and I say yes or no,depending on how people kind of
answer the questions, becausewe're a very private group.
What we do in the group, wewant to stay private and secure
and we only want people therethat have the same prayer
concerns and the same valuesthat we have going into what our
(10:49):
kids are going through, and sowe have over 1,300 moms right
now that join us from all overthe world.
We have people from overseasthat have joined us, but it's a
very diverse group.
We have all denominations wehave anywhere, I always joke
from Lutherans and Catholics toPentecostals, and so we have all
kinds of craziness going on inthere at any given time, but we
(11:12):
stay united.
We don't discuss politics, wedon't discuss current events.
We discuss our children, andthat's the focus of our group.
We pray for our kids and wepost verses and songs and
different things to encourageeach other all of the time, and
that's where our focus is withBattle Cry Moms.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I know a friend of mine.
He had a son who was a prodigaland he is now home, and he's
been home several years now andyou know, I'm thinking to myself
, man, I wonder if she had anytype of support for any type of
(11:51):
people that she was surroundedby to help her during that time.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Exactly.
I found in my case there werenot really a lot of people that
knew what to do.
Nobody knew what to say to me.
Pastors didn't know kind ofwhat to do in my situation, and
so there just wasn't a lot ofinformation out there.
We have started, a couple ofyears ago, a battle cry dads
(12:18):
group, and so if you'relistening to this also and
you're a dad, there's a groupfor you.
I will say it's very, verysmall.
I cannot get the dads to join.
The dads aren't joiners, likemoms are joiners.
But I know the Lord's got plansfor that group, and so we just
keep inviting people to come,and one day it's going to be a
powerful group as well, and sothere's power in having a group.
(12:40):
I call them our mat carriers.
It's like the story of theparalytic in the Bible when it
took four friends to get thisperson down in front of Jesus.
I need friends.
I need people to help me get mychild in front of Jesus, and so
we need mat carriers in ourlife, people that are going to
partner with us to get our kidsback to the kingdom of God.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Amen.
What is it like being aChristian and the mother of a
transgender child?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's a great question and it depends on the
day, probably, how I couldanswer that question.
But the right answer to say upfront is my kid is my kid and I
made the decision at thebeginning that I heard the Lord
clearly say to me it was my jobto love my child and it was his
(13:30):
job to save him, and so I havenever wavered in my love and
support of my child.
But at the same time I havedifferent values and I come from
a different place and so I hadto learn to find my voice where
at the first I was really kindof full of shame and
embarrassment and it wasn'tshame and embarrassment, I
(13:54):
always like to say, it hadnothing to do with his decision
the shame and embarrassment wasthat we go to these churches and
we have to have the perfectlittle family and we have to
pretend the perfect littlefamily and we have to pretend
like everything is okay.
And then, when it wasn't okay,when I realized I had a child
that now didn't really fit intothe pew, like maybe he would
(14:15):
have before, I was embarrassedbecause I somehow felt like
people were looking at me likewhat did that mother?
Do you know what?
Where did she go wrong?
She must have done something.
And so it was a lot of likeholding my head just trying to
lift up my eyes every Sunday tosee the Lord, with kind of the
shame and embarrassment I feltlike the church was kind of
(14:37):
putting on me.
And you know, at the beginning Iwrite about in the book I wrote
about, all of this is I foundthere were two camps in the
church and there was the camp Icall it door A that said what
these kids are doing is wrongand you have to turn them out
and you have to.
You know, just love them fromafar and let them go.
(15:00):
And then there was this campover here that said there's
nothing wrong with what they'redoing, just love them.
Everybody, god loves everybody,you know, in affirming the
decision.
And so I found myself kind ofstuck in the middle of these two
camps going.
You know, I love my child yes,absolutely.
But to not talk to him and totreat him any differently
(15:21):
because of this decision, thatjust didn't feel right to me.
But to affirm and lie to himand say this wasn't going to
affect possibly eternalsalvation, that didn't feel
right to me either.
And so I had to just decide Icouldn't love my child anymore
enough, you know, to get him toheaven.
(15:42):
I mean, I couldn't hate mychild enough to get him to
heaven.
I couldn't like there wasnothing I could do to like turn
him out and hate him enough tolike that was going to like
somehow get him in with betterwith God, but at the same time,
I wasn't going to love himstraight to hell.
I was going to tell him thetruth.
And so I had to find out how tolove my child where he was at
(16:04):
and be the hands and feet ofJesus, but sometimes do that
through my actions and not mywords.
And so, and it's all aboutlearning to lay our kids down,
and I think that was one thing Iwasn't personally taught, maybe
with the church.
I love to joke that we dedicatebabies and pray Jeremiah 29, 11
over them.
(16:24):
You know that they're going tohave a hope and a future, and
that really has nothing to dowith high school graduations and
you know, and baby dedications,but we use that verse.
But what we don't know is thatverse yeah, you know, jeremiah,
he had a hope and a future.
God was saying I have a, I havethis for you but you're going
to be in captivity for a while.
And so we kind of failed tomention that to parents when we
(16:45):
pray that verse over their kids.
And so I had to learn how to laymy child down and I had to
believe that God had a plan andthat he was never going to stop
pursuing my child, just like henever stopped pursuing me.
And I had to learn just to lethim go.
Let him go and let God and justlove my kid right where he was
(17:06):
at.
And I refuse to believe.
I love the story in the Biblewhen it talks about Rachel and
she refused to be comforted.
I had to refuse to be comforted.
There wasn't anything anybodycould say to me that was going
to make this better.
There wasn't any little verse.
I was just going to pray and Iwas just going to you know it
was all going to go away.
(17:26):
I had to refuse to be comfortedand I had to stay in that place
.
And I have to stay every dayinto that place of just
intercession, prayer and beliefthat God has got this and
somehow some way he is going tomake all of this right and that
Satan.
One thing we say in my group, alot is.
No one fights alone and Satanis not going to have our
(17:48):
children.
He's not, and we refuse tobelieve it that he's going to.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
You mentioned the two camps or two sides for the
cookies.
We even see it today.
You know more and more.
Even see it today.
You know more and more.
We see it today.
Yes, and did you ever talk to,you know, a pastor, talk to
church members or whatnot, totry to understand why there is
(18:19):
that you know?
Conundrum of the two sidesRight.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
First, the side that you are talking about Right, you
know, early on I made somecontact with you know, my pastor
and whatever, and was just kindof not given good advice and I
just I've realized that I canpull right now.
I could go to any churchwebsite and I could pull up
(18:44):
where they stand on any issuethat we're talking about and I
could tell you if they think mychild's going to heaven or hell
and we have drawn the line inthe sand, which is fine.
I have no problem with churchespreaching the truth and
standing up for what is right.
That's never been my problem.
My problem is, if we honestlybelieve that these decisions are
(19:09):
separating our children frometernal, you know, glory with
our Savior, then what are wedoing to pray them home?
How come we're not on our facesevery single Sunday at the
altar crying out for thesechildren?
And that's what my kind of myproblem became was I wasn't
(19:29):
seeing any kind of prayermovement or any kind of like
movement to believe thesechildren are coming home.
It was like we stopped atcondemnation but we didn't
believe that God could somehowtransform them and there was no
teaching, if you will, orinstructing parents, because
there's parents just like me,there's parents probably
(19:51):
listening right now to thispodcast, saying, gosh, I am
going through the same thing, orI know somebody going through
the same thing, and there'snobody talking about this.
This is an issue the church issilent about, and so it's just
time that we as a church thecapital C church start talking
(20:13):
about hard issues and startstanding with our parents for
the things that they're goingthrough.
And I know, at the beginning,one time I was at a Bible study
and I was with people I had beenin this Bible study for a while
and I loved everybody in thisBible study, but I had never
(20:33):
felt comfortable to tell mystory.
No one knew what I was goingthrough.
And one week the conversationwent to LGBT issues and I
started hearing things thatthese people that I loved and
was sitting around the tablewith saying you know things like
well, we send our kids toprivate school because we don't
(20:56):
want our kids around those kids.
And there was something in methat clicked that night when I
heard the word those kids that Iknew it was time that I had to
get over myself and I had tostand up and be a voice for
parents everywhere that aregoing through hard things, that
want people to stand with themin prayer and to believe their
(21:18):
kids are coming home, and so wehave to get to a point that it's
my kids and it's your kids andI want the best for your family
as much as, hopefully, you wantfor my family, and we're not
going to stop praying andbelieving until all of our kids
are home.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
How old was your son when he had this discussion with
you?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
He was an adult and, in my situation, an adult
already out in the world doinghis own thing, all of that.
And so I think it's a wholedifferent discussion.
If maybe you have a child athome, that's a minor living in
your house, I think that's adifferent kind of discussion
(22:01):
from where I'm coming from.
But in my case, you know, mychild was an adult, made an
adult decision, and so, as a lotof our kids do, they make adult
decisions that maybe you're notgoing to agree with.
And, as silly as it sounds, I Iguess I really didn't.
I laugh when I say it becauseit sounds so ridiculous I didn't
(22:23):
realize like they were going tohave a free will to do their
own thing.
It never occurred to me thatlike they would choose anything
other than to like walk with theLord.
So that was my own kind ofnaive like oh well, this is the
way they've been brought up,this is the path they'll follow.
I didn't realize that there wasan enemy after my children and
after my family, and I wishsomebody would have pulled me
(22:45):
aside when my kids were littleand said hey, do you know that
Satan's after your kids?
Because I would have been likewhat are you talking about?
Because I really didn'tunderstand that like I do now.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And what type?
I mean, obviously you're aChristian and you go first and
everything.
What was his walk with Christlike?
Did he have one growing up andyou know, did you have a
discussion with him about thatand say, hey, you know, this is
wrong.
What was that discussion?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
like you know, that's a great question, and I find
that for myself, and even like alot of the parents that are in
my group, that they will all saywe did the right things.
We went to church, they went toyouth group, they went to
Christian school, they went toChristian college, they sang and
worshiped bands, they did allthe right things, and so you
(23:39):
know the works was all there.
So you know the works was allthere.
But I always like to say, if Icould go back and do it again, I
would say I would not take mykids to church.
Well, what I mean by that was Iwouldn't spend all of my time
thinking that a Sunday morningand a Wednesday night, you know,
(23:59):
or a Sunday night, that thosewere going to be enough things.
I would really focus on takingmy children to Jesus.
And so I think that we have toget to a place that we're
teaching them hard things.
We're talking about hard thingswith our kids.
We're talking about how God can, you know, can fix things and
mold things and help you withthings, when sometimes we just
(24:21):
don't talk about those hardthings.
And so when the hard thingscome, they don't know how to
process it and they don't knowhow to fix it because we haven't
allowed them to go through hardthings and let them see how the
Lord can walk with them.
And so, you know, we've hadlots of conversations over the
years and I will say that Ibelieve my child's faith is
(24:41):
strong.
As far as I know, he stillbelieves.
I know he still believes.
I know he still reads the word.
I know that this is a strugglethat he has and, you know, one
of these days it's somehow God'sgoing to take that word,
because all of those things thatwe did, even though they may
(25:02):
not have been enough from astandpoint where I'm at now,
those were seeds that wereplanted into my child, and those
seeds are going to come out andthey're going to grow in due
season, and so I just keepwatering those seeds.
One of the things we pray inour group is that, you know, god
would remind our kids of everysermon they ever heard, every
worship song they ever sang,every prayer, they ever prayed.
(25:24):
That he would bring that totheir minds, that he would
remind them of who they are inHim, that they would never
forget where their roots are.
And so we have had lots ofconversations about that and
it's hard, but I do still seesome fruit there.
I just have to believe that indue season God's going to
(25:45):
multiply that and bring it forth.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Do you ever see any type of government from people,
either in the church, yourfamily or your friends?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
you know, I think everybody has an opinion on this
.
Everybody's got a differentopinion and I'm going to be
honest, I had a differentopinion about it seven years ago
.
I had to, kind of.
You know, I have always beenthe person that have.
Um, I've always told God, youknow that I'm going to let the
theologians hash that out.
(26:20):
I'm just going to love people.
I don't want to think about it.
I'm going to let.
I'm going to let thetheologians hash that out.
I'm just going to love people.
I don't want to think about it.
I'm going to let people smarterthan myself think about all
those kind of hard things.
I'm going to just love peoplewhere they're at.
And it wasn't until that droppedinto my lap that I was forced
to kind of get in the fight anddecide.
And so I knew that, especiallyright now, kind of politically,
(26:44):
you know, it's so hard becausewe talk about like things like
bathroom issues and you know,transgender people going in the
wrong bathroom and how peoplethat stirs them all up so much
and I completely understand that.
But then at the same time, as amom, I get worried about my
(27:05):
child going in the wrongbathroom, also because of
retaliation and violence againsthis lifestyle, and so it's
really hard because there'speople that think this, you know
, and can just ignore it and goon.
And then there's the peoplethere's that strong kind of
group of people that think this,you know, and can just ignore
it and go on.
And then there's the peoplethere's that strong kind of
(27:25):
group of people that think thisand act violent toward this
community, and so, as Christians, you know, next time you're,
you know, scrolling social mediaand you see this issue talked
about in an article go to thecomment section and see the
Christians and some of thethings they say, and it's
absolutely mind blowing, um,what, what we say and what we
(27:47):
allow to come out of our mouthsagainst, you know, children of
God, and so, um, you know, I, Ithink I get it Like I understand
the issue and I understand whypeople think the way they do, um
, and I understand some of therules and laws and things we
have and I completely wouldagree with those.
But at the end of the day, Ithink sometimes we all have to
(28:08):
remember that there really aregood people caught in some
deception and a lie, and thisseems to be the issue the church
really likes to focus on theydon't want to talk about.
You know all the sins that wehave on the inside.
You know we don't want to talkabout.
You know all the sins that wehave on the inside, you know we
don't want to talk about.
You know our obesity problemand we don't want to talk about.
You know pornography and wedon't want to talk about sex
(28:31):
outside of marriage and thosetypes of things.
You know we only really like tofocus on this one issue of the
church.
It's always kind of comical tome that that's kind of what we.
That's the one thing that kindof, you know gets us all cranked
up.
And there's so many otherthings that we need to be
praying about and worrying abouttoo.
But you know, I know I have cometo a place that if I see, maybe
(28:56):
, a transgender person when I'mout in public, and even if I see
him in the wrong bathroom whenI'm out in public, I have about
a 30-second window to make adecision.
You know I pray every day thatGod would put somebody in front
of my child that would speaklife over him, someone that
would prophesy to his future,wherever he is at, that he would
(29:16):
run into somebody that wouldsee who he is in the Lord and he
would prophesy that to him.
And so when I see somebody, Icould get mad and I could say
some mean things about you're inthe wrong bathroom, or I could
take one minute to remind thatperson.
God sees you, god is stillchasing you down and you can't
outrun his love.
And I could take those 10seconds that I have and speak
(29:38):
life over that person.
And so I think sometimes wehave to get over ourselves.
We have to close our eyes andforget the things we're seeing,
and we have to see through totheir hearts.
We can't talk to their heads.
We have to start talking totheir hearts.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
What would you say?
You know you said a little bitthere that you know talking to
the transgender person andsaying you know God loves you
and God, you know, has a plan.
You know, whatever you say tothat person, obviously you know
we may not want to start offthat way, we may want to build a
friendship with that person,but once we get to that spot
(30:16):
that we feel comfortable sayingthat to them, what would you say
to the person that's speakingto the transgender person?
If they get a rebuttal of, well, how can God love me if he's
going to send me to hell for thelifestyle that I have?
What would you say to thatperson?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, I think I would say the same thing that I would
if I was talking to a drugaddict or an alcoholic.
You know God, he forgives oursins as far as the east is from
the west.
We all know that that, andthere is nothing that can
separate us from the love of God.
And so it's all about surrenderand and trust.
And so, as a person, if I'mspeaking to somebody, you know
(31:03):
it's it's that, come and see.
It's that, try and see.
It's that.
Trust me, do you trust me?
You know, but God is sayingthat to all of us every single
day.
You know, do you trust me?
Do you trust me with my planfor your life?
And, like you said, it's aboutbuilding a relationship.
You can't speak into somebody'slife without relationship.
You can't.
(31:24):
They won't hear it, but wecan't get relationship if we
can't get past what someone iswearing on the outside.
And so we all have to do betterabout building relationships
with people that look differentfrom us and learning to love
them and see them like God seesthem.
I often think you know, when Godsaid you know he looks at our
heart, he doesn't look at theoutside, that verse is for this
(31:47):
day and age that he is seeingpeople's hearts, that he's not
stopping right here, he's notstopping with what's on the
outside.
He's going on through andseeing somebody's heart.
And so you know, I think it'sjust about building a
relationship and loving peopleright where they're at.
I can't fix anything, andthat's kind of the, at the end
of the day, what I have toremember.
(32:07):
If there was something I couldsay or something I could do or
somewhere I could go that wouldfix this for people, I would
already have done it.
It's the Holy Spirit, it's thekindness of God that brings us
to repentance, and so we have tointroduce God in his kindness
and his love.
But if we're only tellingpeople how much he hates them
(32:29):
all the time, they're nevergoing to know how much he loves
them.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You're married and you have other sons as well.
What has that experience beenlike?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
been like.
You know everybody comes fromthis differently, and you know I
still.
You know we're living this outin real time and so sometimes,
you know, it's easy to talkabout things and sometimes it
still gets a little emotionalkind of when you're, because I'm
living it out in real time.
These are real families caughtin real problems, and so I think
men handle it differently.
My husband definitely has hisown story.
(33:08):
It comes from this at adifferent angle than I come at
it, and I have two otherchildren and you know they're
divided One supports and onedoes not.
And so you know you go frombeing this tight knit family to
being this, where nobody talks.
Well, what that means is, youknow I don't have Christmas
(33:29):
dinners anymore, I don't get,you know, vacations with my
grandkids and my family, and youknow all these things that we
plan and think of those arethings that I don't have access
to anymore because my lifechanged in this moment, and so
you know it's just hard.
And so next time you knowyou're at church on Mother's Day
(33:51):
and you're looking around atall of the beautiful families
with their kids, you know, justknow that there's some mob
sitting on the back row.
That's hurting.
That doesn't have that, and Ithink we just all have to
realize that there's a lot ofhurting people out there.
And Satan comes from one thing.
We all know what that is tosteal and to kill and to destroy
(34:11):
, and we have to remember thatwe're not mad at each other.
This isn't a fight against eachother.
This is a fight against Satanand his demons that come to
steal, kill and destroy families, and we have to remember that
we have authority over him andwe're going to start taking
authority in our families andcasting him down the strongholds
that he has over our familiesand our kids, because he has no
(34:33):
authority in our families.
Because, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord and I say
that every morning.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Amen.
What would you tell anotherparent that has similar
experiences with their child,regardless of your situation or
another situation, with theirprodigal child?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yes, you're not alone .
That would be my first thingthat I would say to them is you
are not alone.
That is a lie from the pit ofhell that Satan has whispered to
you that you're the only onegoing through this.
You are not alone, and so wewould love to have you join our
group.
We would love for you to havecommunity with Battle Cry Moms
(35:15):
and stand together with us as wepray for our families and
believe for them to come back.
You know it's just hard, like wetalked about.
It's hard because you know,when you show up on a Sunday
morning, you look at all theother families and you realize
yours looks different and itstarts putting the shame on you.
But it says in Revelation thatwe will overcome by the blood of
the Lamb and the word of ourtestimony.
(35:37):
I would encourage you right nowto be brave, to stand up.
Go tell your pastor, go tellyour friends at church, go tell
them on a Sunday morning, say Ineed to tell you what we're
going through as a family and Ineed this church to stand with
me to believe my kid is cominghome.
Be brave and speak up.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
What do you think a church can do better to help
parents that have prodigalchildren?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, that's a loaded question.
I will say that I have lived innine different places, nine
different moves in differentstates, and I have been to a lot
of churches and I can honestlysay I have never been to a
church that had a whole Sundaydedicated just to praying for
the prodigals.
(36:28):
And so first, if you arelistening to this and you're a
pastor, have a prodigal Sunday,have a prodigal Thursday, have a
prodigal Tuesday, it doesn'tmatter what day of the week it
is, but pick a day every month,every year, whatever it is, and
pray for the prodigals.
Give space for parents to comeand say that this is what we're
(36:50):
going through.
Give space to people to sharein their pain.
Don't have that country clubwhere everybody has to come and
pretend their lives are perfectbecause they're not.
People are hurting.
Reach out to your community,reach out to other churches and
say, hey, we have a supportgroup here at our church that
meets once a month and prays forthe prodigals.
Come join us, but we have toget in the game.
(37:12):
So if I was talking to a pastorright now, I would say how are
you in the game?
How are you serving parentsthat have prodigal children?
Serving parents that haveprodigal children and then go
from there.
You can go on my website and Ihave a little group, I call it a
Prodigal Sunday Pack, and youcan order one for your pastor
(37:33):
and I'm going to send him a bookand I'm going to send him some
resources and I'm just going tolay it out and say would you
please have a Prodigal Sunday atyour church?
Could you commit to having aProdigal Sunday this year at
your church?
And that is my goal is thatevery church in America and
around the world will take oneSunday to pray for the prodigals
.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What is one key takeaway for listeners who have
turned in this week?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Again, I would say the one thing I want them to
hear me say is no one fightsalone and that you are not alone
and that we're going to getthrough this, that there is
nothing that is too hard for God, nothing is too hard for God.
And so don't get stuck in theshame of the woulda, coulda,
(38:26):
shouldas and what you wish youwould have done differently.
You know.
Get stuck in praying for thefuture, get stuck in believing
for great things, that God isgoing to somehow, some way, make
this all right and that ourchildren are coming home.
We have got to focus on theprodigals.
You know I always joke that onetime God gave me this vision of
(38:48):
a puzzle, and you know it and Iknow it.
If you're doing a puzzle atyour house and you get down to
one, the last piece, and it'smissing, what do you do?
You are on the floor, you'recrawling around, you're
overturning the couch cushions.
You're like where did thatpiece of the puzzle go?
But the church is.
That's exactly what's happeningin the church today.
We are all ready for therapture.
(39:09):
We're like, ready today to goto heaven?
I know I am.
I'm ready for the rapture, butwe have got.
We're looking at this puzzleand there's that one piece
missing and we're like, oh, youknow what, we can see it, it's
close enough, let's just go andget out of here, but God is
still.
You have to put our kids backinto that puzzle, back into that
one missing piece.
So we have to find theprodigals and bring them home.
(39:31):
It is our job, that's whatwe're supposed to do and that's
what we have to focus on.
If there was one question that Icould have asked you today,
what would that question be andhow would you answer it?
One question would be when thisfirst started for me, I knew
(39:53):
that I was going to have to havea plan.
I knew I was going to have tohave a battle plan, and so in
our group we talk about a battleplan and what that is.
It's an easy five-step plan topray for our children, and so
that's what I would say isyou're going to need a plan, and
the most important step of thatis the word.
Find a verse to stand on foryour kids.
(40:13):
Maybe that's a verse that Godgave you, maybe that's one of
your favorite verses, maybethat's something somebody else
said to you, but pray that verseevery single day over your
child.
Pray that verse.
That's all it takes is oneletter of God's word, and it can
change generations.
God's word is that powerfulthat it just takes one word of
(40:34):
it.
And so find a verse today.
Find a verse today.
Memorize that verse.
Write it everywhere you go.
Write it in your bathroomcabinet.
Write it in your dresser drawer.
Write it on the bottom of yourchute, it doesn't matter.
Write that verse, write iteverywhere you go.
Write it in your bathroomcabinet.
Write it in your dresser drawer.
Write it on the bottom of yourshoe, it doesn't matter.
Write that verse down, memorizeit and speak that over your
child every single day.
Give it to your friends.
(40:54):
Write it on an index card.
If you, if people ask how theycan pray for your family, hand
them that card and say here, Ineed you to pray this verse over
my child.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
And so that's what I would tell people right now is
find a battle plan, get a battleplan and get in the game.
And where can people reach outto you again if they have
questions for you or they wantto join your group?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yes, so you can go to my website, which is
deborahmcninchcom, and I havedifferent resources there.
You can link Battle Cry Momsand Battle Cry Dads on that.
If you can't remember my nameand if you think I can remember
Battle Cry, that's an easy thingto remember it's
battlecrymomscom orbattlecrydadscom,
(41:40):
battlecrymomscom orBattleCryDadscom and connect
with me.
I would love to just talk toanybody that needs a friend to
talk to.
I would love to have coffeewith you.
I would love to come to yourchurch and tell my story.
Thank you so much again forhaving this important
(42:01):
conversation and just believe,never stop believing that our
kids are coming home.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Amen.
Well, thank you again fortuning in to another episode of
the Dorothy Ross Show.
Please go and like Debbie'sinformation and check out her
website.
And until, and please go andcheck out other episodes and my
website as well,wwwdorseylawshowcom.
(42:30):
And until next time, god bless,bye-bye.
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