March 27, 2022 • 33 mins
Host Neha Sampat, CEO of Contentstack, and Hydrostasis CEO and Co-Founder Dr. Debbie Chen get together over a glass of sparkling water and discuss the challenges of academia, building a business in the face of biases, and refusing to be pigeonholed.
Hydrostasis is a company developing personalized and actionable hydration monitoring solutions.
Neha and Debbie discuss:
- Getting up and getting back into the ring – literally and figuratively (Dr. Chen is a Muay Thai fighter)
- Starting a business as an “outsider”
- The deep need for founder self-awareness
- Why refusing to fit the mold eventually works out
The Dreammakers enjoyed a glass of sparkling water while they talked: Sanzo Flavored Sparkling Water. Sanzo pairs traditional Asian flavors with a modern taste using real fruit and no added sugars.
Other show notes:
- My Shot and The Garden Song are Debbie’s wake up songs
- Any book by Brené Brown is Debbie’s recommendation for her 19-year-old-self
- Water is Debbie’s drink recommendation
Follow Host Neha Sampat on LinkedIn and @nomad_neha
Follow Guest Debbie Chen on LinkedIn and @Dchebbz
Follow @Hydrostasis
Follow @Contentstack
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Neha Sampat (00:59):
Welcome to dream makers candid conversations with women that will change the way that you see success purpose and what it takes to bridge the two.
I may have Sam pat a three time tech founder and CEO, with a focus on companies that are places to dream big build up and be a good human.
i'm CEO of content stack and also certified some way so normally we drink wine here, but sometimes we drink other things too.
(01:23):
So today is one of those days and i'm we're going to try something really interesting and will tell you about that in a minute.
i'm joined by Dr debbie Chen The co founder and CEO of hydro status it company developing personalized and actionable hydration monitoring solutions.
Today we're going to talk about the challenges of academia, building a business in the face of bias and refusing to be pigeonholed let's get started hi debbie.
(01:48):
Hello welcome it's so nice to have you here.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (01:52):
thanks for having me i'm excited.
Neha Sampat (01:54):
So, on your linkedin profile, it says that you're a muay Thai fighter and that's probably one of the coolest things i've heard from one of my guests on dream makers.
But i'm not sure that I fully know what that is, I know it's not jazzercise from the prep that you did with my team and tell us what that is and how you picked up that hobby.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (02:12):
yeah yeah so the story was that I actually thought it was jazzercise I didn't actually know what I was getting myself into but most high is a traditional.
martial art originating from Thailand so it's very similar to kickboxing you know but it's also not just punches and kicks but you also get to do knees and elbows.
(02:37):
So I call it a beautiful violence, if you will.
it's very the technique is very beautiful and.
You know if if you do it right it's yeah it's really fascinating
Neha Sampat (02:53):
Like fighting and dancing kind of combined.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (02:56):
yeah I mean you know martial art is an art right so there's a lot of.
sort of technique to it and discipline and kind of knowing your body right every dancer is different, you know and and how your body moves it's the same thing.
With with martial arts and so understanding your body and your strengths and you know what you need to work on, and all this stuff it's it's just never ending for me that you know the fascination with you know how you can.
(03:22):
continue to get better every day and really it just you know meshed into my founder journey so it's actually really cool.
Neha Sampat (03:29):
that's really cool we're going to talk more about that.
In a little bit and i'm super inspired to hear more about it, so what we're drinking today is fans oh sparkling water, I felt I sound like i'm like an infomercial.
not paying me for this, I was just looking for something kind of.
interesting and what I like about this brand is that they're peering Asian flavors with a modern taste and it's still like zero added sugar and so you get like.
(03:53):
You know the benefit of having a sparkling water, but with some interesting flavor, so this is a light G flavored sparkling water, they also have mango and kalin muncie which is like a type of line so let's.
And so they say it's made with real fruit you're supposed to serve it chilled.
And 20 calories sure.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:18):
hmm that's good.
Neha Sampat (04:20):
that's good it tastes like you're like having a light you but it's like.
yeah carbonation.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:28):
yeah toast very.
Like Asian.
Neha Sampat (04:32):
In like.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:33):
I don't know how to say it, you know what I mean.
Neha Sampat (04:36):
Is it.
Like people don't eat a lot i'd like to your lead she I don't know i've heard it both.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:40):
Ways in Chinese it's really cheap, but I think in English, most people say like cheap but i'm not sure.
Neha Sampat (04:45):
that's an interesting one, to look up later, but in India, you know in India people it's really a popular food, and it is so in China and other parts of Asia and not as well known here so.
kind of a delicacy and a lot of fun.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:58):
I love it. 3:42
Neha Sampat (05:00):
awesome so let's jump into your background tell me a little bit more about you and kind of your journey, so you have a PhD in biomedical engineering and started off in academia so tell us about what you were doing and then.
My understanding is that wasn't you know, academia wasn't your favorite thing tell us a little bit about that too.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (05:16):
yeah well yeah so I sort of grew up thinking that like you know science was truth right and I wanted to be you know.
adding to the knowledge base of humankind, or you know this, these like really lofty you know goals and I thought that was that was what I wanted to do, and hence I did a PhD and of course biomedical engineering was fascinating.
(05:42):
And so yeah so my PhD was at tufts university, I was studying near infrared spectroscopy that the technology that I just this is using but i'm just a different application so we were developing a diagnostic for.
Peripheral neuropathy, and so we thought that hey maybe we can tell before the nerve is damaged that you know, there is a change in the blood flow surrounding the nerve so that's what I did for my thesis
(06:26):
i'm a lot of diabetics get.
Peripheral neuropathy which is sort of tingling and they call it gloves and socks syndrome, a little bit because the hands and feet get tingly.
(07:16):
so I graduated in 2010.
And it wasn't a great time to find a job, and so you know i've always kind of wanted to work for startup but you know just yeah I didn't know where to start to be honest and I ended up doing a postdoc I came back to San Diego so I did my undergrad at ucsd also environmental engineering.
(07:40):
And I did a postdoc in in.
The Department pathology at ucsd Medical School and then I ended up doing another postdoc this time at.
scripps oceanography so my background, has been very sort of.
Broad and.
(08:01):
You know, come to realize like i'm more of a generalist than a sort of one, you know very deep understanding of one piece of the science, and so I think.
The the issue there is that if you're going to go into academia, you know as a professor, you know p-i you have to be very focused on the one thing that you're studying.
(08:23):
And I was just like I follow what I find interesting the projects that I find interesting and most of them are high risk, high reward prospects turns out.
That it's it's perfect you know fit for for a startup founder but um yeah So these are the types of problems you started been doing, but really all along and kind of building these different data.
(08:44):
data sets and building these skill sets that that will help me eventually in you know in my startup life
Neha Sampat (09:11):
around that time you also became a new mom.
and
You kind of experienced that it wasn't really like that.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (09:18):
That world with a.
Neha Sampat (09:19):
seeker empathetic towards moms what was that, like. Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (10:03):
You know, every three hours and, if I have to hike 15 minutes to get to the room and then pump for another 20 minutes or 30 minutes and then come back for 15 minutes and work for an hour and then by that time it's already been three hours, and then I have to hike again.
yeah so I didn't get much work done, you know after those those you know, three months, and then we did three months, maternity and then I had three months left of my contract and so by that by that time it was like Oh well, you didn't get much work done so we're not going to.
(10:36):
extend your your contract so yeah and I was like okay yeah that's fine I guess you know so it's just it wasn't the the most supportive.
place, to be honest um you know, and I think that's just in general, academia, you know, maybe it's starting to change a little bit for the better now hopefully, but when I was there, and also, you know engineering is mostly male.
Neha Sampat (11:05):
I think it's very similar in like the early earlier days in tech companies to because it was pretty male dominated and I just remember like I worked at a couple large companies where you'd have to go for buildings over to find.
a place that had a.
mom's room and it was just insane same experience like really not conducive to being productive and and just felt like so unfair to see that happening. 9:22
(11:30):
yeah okay so let's revisit my boy ties know.
What is that yeah okay Sounds like that training was kinda just what you needed at that point in time, and you said something in the pre-interview that was interesting, you said that fighting helped you defend yourself, both on and off the mat — can you expand on that? Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (14:16):
yeah and I think you know once I started fighting, so I actually you know competed in the ring, and that was a whole nother level of scary um.
But I realized that you know it was it's all about self confidence right like If you go into the ring and you're like “Okay I'm not going to win” you're not going to win And you know and it's the same same with the startup like you have to have just like the most on unpenetrable self confidence, and you know, as female founders it's difficult, right, to have that like positivity, and you know, mental state of like this is worth it, you know? The thing that I'm doing is going to better the world and no matter what comes at me, and the whole system's not built for me and that's okay, and all the biases implicit and explicit, you know I'm going to just do the best I can and that's all you can do for sure show up every day. And I always I always think about the importance of expecting to win in in the founder journey, because if you don't then what's the point? Like, show up and expect to win and you're going to fail, and you're going to be rejected, and you just have to get back up and back in the ring, so to speak 13:04
Neha Sampat (15:25):
Exactly so that takes us to hydro spaces, the company founded and it sounds like you kind of combined your world of science and business and then now fitness can you explain how did you come up with that concept.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (15:39):
yeah it was all through you know my personal experiences with hydration So when I started training, you know I realized like.
I crap all the time right like I didn't know how to hydrate myself and.
You know I hear all these things like drink eight glasses of water it's like Okay, but that doesn't mean anything if i'm going to the gym for like two hours right.
(16:00):
And so, then i'm like oh my buddy over here is like 250 pounds like do they also need the same amount of water and I quickly realized that you know it needs to be personalized right like.
If i'm in you know elite athlete versus you know, a couch potato versus a marathoner versus you know 250 pound, you know football nfl player like we're all going to need very different amounts of hydration.
(16:25):
And what is that and nobody knows literally nobody knows and it's like I tried to go out and buy these products right and it didn't exist, and I was like okay well.
You know what maybe I maybe I could do it right and, and so I thought about the.
The the signals that we were looking at you know when I was doing My thesis and one of the signals that we did see was was the hydration signal the water signal in the in the.
(16:52):
spectrum in the near infrared spectrum and we actually tried to avoid that signal, because it was it was.
Not what we were interested in, so we actually use that as like okay that's a noise we don't want to look at it, so we wanted to focus on whatever else we were looking at.
And I was like Oh, I wonder if we could just focus on that right, and so yeah it was really kind of all of these pieces of my life coming together and.
(17:16):
And then also quickly I realized, you know my background is biomedical engineering and there's a huge need in the clinic.
I experienced it when I was pregnant and everybody's like drink more water and I almost fainted and fell down a flight of stairs and i'm like this is super super dangerous like why can't I know. 15:11
(17:37):
Before I get lightheaded and low blood pressure that I needed more water right and and I didn't know, and so you know that that that really kick started the interest in the clinical path for me.
Neha Sampat (17:50):
yeah I mean that and what an inspiration right just to going through that journey yourself what where do you think the product is in terms of product by ability now.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (17:59):
yeah so we've actually proven that it works we've proven that it works on the bicep and the risk now, and the reason why we first of all, we kind of avoided the risk because the wrist very noisy place for a wearable but.
You know that's really where everybody is used to wearing devices.
And, and also we had all these smartwatch manufacturers, you know come coming to us and asking us for for these solutions so.
(18:23):
They really are excited for sort of the next big bio insight right everybody has steps and heart rate and you know pulse ox emitters, and all the fancy stuff.
And what is next right and so we're really sort of riding on this healthcare at the wrist right, and so we have all of these bio bio insights and we really feel like hydration is the next big bio insight.
(18:47):
So yeah right now we're we're evaluating our sensor systems and our algorithms with some of these top tier smartwatch manufacturers, hoping to get it out into you know some some well known.
smartwatch brands, by the end of 2023. 16:41
Neha Sampat (19:04):
Who that's awesome.
yeah, what do you think is your ultimate goal for hydro states.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (19:10):
I think what I would like to do for hydro stasis is really make this technology.
impactful and available for for all right, and by all I mean you know the consumer use case the clinical use case.
And even in sort of the philanthropic world where you know a lot of these non nonprofits are building wells right in areas where there's no access to water and you think like yeah if you tell them, you need more water they're going to be like no duh.
(19:43):
Right and that's not helpful but we've talked to a few of them and they actually said, you know it's actually quite helpful because, once we build that well.
People are not understanding how much water, they need to really be well right so to bring that health and wellness to these communities, so we really see the the the wide gamut you know of.
(20:07):
impact that hydration can have right because really like Water is life it's everywhere it's the you know biggest part of our human bodies and.
You know, so if we can make it accessible and understandable and build these better hydration habits, we can actually sort of prevent a lot of early onset chronic diseases. and especially our elderly are elderly whether it's with dementia, or any other things that they're dealing with um.
(20:53):
You know the thirst mechanism also starts to fade when you when you age, and so, if you're not feeling thirsty.
You know you're not going to want to drink water right unless somebody else like a physician or a caretaker or device is telling you hey you should drink some more water and so that's kind of you know where we think we would make a big impact as well. 18:48
Neha Sampat (21:14):
yeah that's awesome I mean I, like you have the I have the apple watch and it can remind me to stand up and in the same way if it told me to drink a glass of water, it just do it because it's the right thing.
yeah sometimes you need that push.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (21:28):
yeah yeah.
cuz right now yeah like right now the all the watches.
Are sort of reminders or you tell it, how much you've done it keeps track or.
You know you have these like smart water bottles that that kind of blinker or keep track or whatever right but there's nothing out there, that really measures hydration in the body and tells you what your body is doing in real time right so that's kind of the the.
Neha Sampat (21:53):
missing piece.
And the personalization of that not just again like not just a generic count. 19:32
But sadly, is typically to you so let's dig into the process of building your business it of course it's never an easy journey but it wasn't an easy journey, for you either, and you said you started from zero.
And as sort of an outsider to fundraising what has that process been like for you. 00:22:44.130 --> 00:23:00.840 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (23:02):
The the the sort of life science folks are mostly male on the investor side and.
All investors across the board, are mostly male but especially on the deep tech and the life science sectors and so.
You know it's it's something that we're continuing to work with I work with several groups of you know, female focused investors and.
(23:28):
That you know as a founders perspective i'm trying to help build that side of the table as well um so yeah that's pretty much all we can do right, you know we've got to start somewhere and you gotta just keep going I guess right. 20:49
Neha Sampat (23:42):
Here sure, and like I remember early in my journey people used to ask me this all the time and it drove me nuts, because it wasn't right for me, but I'm going to ask you anyway So, why wouldn't you just ask your friends and family or people that you already know to invest in you? Debbie Chen
(25:54):
So what were some of the alternative sources of funding that you did get access to? Debbie Chen
(28:44):
We had a guest on this show that talked about our duty and partially that's just as women and women that have taken the leap to transfer the knowledge, meaning that we don't all have to make the same mistakes to have an equally difficult path What are some of the unsaid things that you learned by just going through this process, and you know, what would you share with people that are maybe a step behind you? Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (31:11):
Exactly and that's.
Better for your company right So if you a lot of women think like oh yeah I want what's best for the company right.
And, and not so much like Oh, we must hold on to the ego.
kind of thing but what's best for the company is you write your wellness and you need to get sleep.
And you need to eat, you need to exercise, you need to be well mentally and physically right that's what's best for your company, and I think.
(31:38):
We take that a lot away from ourselves in our company sometimes like Oh, we have to work ourselves to the bones, and we don't need to sleep, you know and and that's not good for you or your company that's.
Neha Sampat (31:49):
really good advice, and I think the the follow on to that is that you're also setting an example for the people that work for you, with you.
And it's important that they see that you actually are taking.
Care of yourself.
Right, so that.
They can as well.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (32:01):
Exactly, I had a founder that actually asked you know, a group of women, you know how do I, you know build the culture, you know that we really you know.
don't work 90 hours a week right and they're like well we're right now we have a lot of milestones we've got to hit these things and and we have a short timeline so we're working 8090 hours a week and i'm in my head i'm like okay one you probably don't have children.
(32:27):
And to like they're looking to you to build a culture, so if you're working 90 hours a week.
And they, this is what they think they're expected right and you're probably driving them to burn out and you're probably going to burn out so you have to live that example in order for your employees to know that that's okay and that's what's expected. 29:25
Neha Sampat (32:48):
Absolutely, so I normally would move into rapid fire have one more question for you.
Sure it's really just addressing a common theme that you've.
talked about in your journey and that's that you refuse to be pigeonholed and maybe not really at first, but eventually in academia, they tried fundraising they tried, what would you say to our listeners, who are experiencing the same thing not quite being able to be themselves.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (33:13):
yeah, to be honest it's not something that I like said, I refuse to it's just it didn't work out, you know, like the way I tried to.
mold myself into whatever mold they wanted and like it was extremely uncomfortable it wasn't you know, perhaps values aligned.
I was uncomfortable doing it that way, whether it was you know, a business model or or you know how to hire my employees or whatever it is right.
(33:42):
And so I eventually found my own way, that I was comfortable with that I was happy with, and my team is spectacular and so it's sort of just again being self aware and figure out what works for you and your company, and that makes your employees happy.
And you know and that's that's what it is like, would you my question to myself always is like, if I had a hard day it's like, would you be rather be working for another company.
(34:06):
And if the answer is no, then you're like Okay, I had a hard day right, but I would still rather be working for this company and this team and and and this product, and this vision right.
So yeah I think that's that's it's like what makes you happy and comfortable and able to do your you know your dream.
Neha Sampat (34:28):
yeah do your best work be authentic and and be self aware, I think.
Are the big thing. 31:12
awesome okay i'm going to move into my for rapid fire questions, the first one of which is what's your wake up song.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (34:42):
I found that funny because I don't really have a wake up song, I have my five year old wakes me up every day he wakes me up around six or 630 every day so he's very excited to.
wake up.
But I think there's a couple songs that come to mind one is my shot from Hamilton.
So that always like pumps.
me up because i'm like yeah i'm gonna i'm not gonna miss my shot right.
(35:07):
And, and then the second one is actually a garden song by Dave mallet it's an older song, but it really talks about the lyrics like inch inch by inch row by row.
i'm gonna make this scarred and.
grow right so it's kind of like the startup.
journey right like it's not overnight.
You know, and you just do it, you know inch by inch day by day and you keep going and you.
(35:32):
love the harvest.
Neha Sampat (35:35):
that's awesome if you're 19 year old self asked you what what should I read, which I listened to you what would you say.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (35:43):
um I would say a lot of renee brown self awareness, a lot of sort of self empowerment.
And yeah just like you know understanding how you feel what what actually is the definition of an emotion right like and really like shame right like shame her shame research has been so.
(36:08):
Life changing for me.
Neha Sampat (36:12):
really good can you recommend a favorite beverage.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (36:21):
To be honest, I just love playing water sometimes have flavored water or anything in the water, I feel like it's not quenching my thirst.
um yeah I really just like regular water but yeah sounds I was really good, by the way.
Neha Sampat (36:39):
It from a hydration perspective doesn't matter if it's if it's playing water carbonated like can you can you get hydration from carbonated water in the same way.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (36:47):
In general I think people just drink less of carbonated water, because it gets you full.
um so that's yeah So for me if i'm really harsh I just need like regular.
water.
But if you're an you know, an athlete and stuff like that definitely need some electrolytes if you're exercising for more than 60 minutes you need some carbs with those electrolytes.
(37:08):
yeah so you know to me it's like if I need those, like any of those would work, but just day to day i'm just a big water.
Neha Sampat (37:17):
drinker I kind of knew, you were gonna say that.
And the final question is What should our listeners do tomorrow to help them become Dreammakers? Debbie Chen
(38:27):
Exactly.
amazing and thank you very much, this is a really fun conversation I enjoyed getting to know you and learning a lot from you and I appreciate you being on the show.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (38:37):
Thank you so much, I had so much fun.
Welcome to dream makers candid conversations with women that will change the way that you see success purpose and what it takes to bridge the two.
I may have Sam pat a three time tech founder and CEO, with a focus on companies that are places to dream big build up and be a good human.
i'm CEO of content stack and also certified some way so normally we drink wine here, but sometimes we drink other things too.
(01:23):
So today is one of those days and i'm we're going to try something really interesting and will tell you about that in a minute.
i'm joined by Dr debbie Chen The co founder and CEO of hydro status it company developing personalized and actionable hydration monitoring solutions.
Today we're going to talk about the challenges of academia, building a business in the face of bias and refusing to be pigeonholed let's get started hi debbie.
(01:48):
Hello welcome it's so nice to have you here.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (01:52):
thanks for having me i'm excited.
Neha Sampat (01:54):
So, on your linkedin profile, it says that you're a muay Thai fighter and that's probably one of the coolest things i've heard from one of my guests on dream makers.
But i'm not sure that I fully know what that is, I know it's not jazzercise from the prep that you did with my team and tell us what that is and how you picked up that hobby.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (02:12):
yeah yeah so the story was that I actually thought it was jazzercise I didn't actually know what I was getting myself into but most high is a traditional.
martial art originating from Thailand so it's very similar to kickboxing you know but it's also not just punches and kicks but you also get to do knees and elbows.
(02:37):
So I call it a beautiful violence, if you will.
it's very the technique is very beautiful and.
You know if if you do it right it's yeah it's really fascinating
Neha Sampat (02:53):
Like fighting and dancing kind of combined.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (02:56):
yeah I mean you know martial art is an art right so there's a lot of.
sort of technique to it and discipline and kind of knowing your body right every dancer is different, you know and and how your body moves it's the same thing.
With with martial arts and so understanding your body and your strengths and you know what you need to work on, and all this stuff it's it's just never ending for me that you know the fascination with you know how you can.
(03:22):
continue to get better every day and really it just you know meshed into my founder journey so it's actually really cool.
Neha Sampat (03:29):
that's really cool we're going to talk more about that.
In a little bit and i'm super inspired to hear more about it, so what we're drinking today is fans oh sparkling water, I felt I sound like i'm like an infomercial.
not paying me for this, I was just looking for something kind of.
interesting and what I like about this brand is that they're peering Asian flavors with a modern taste and it's still like zero added sugar and so you get like.
(03:53):
You know the benefit of having a sparkling water, but with some interesting flavor, so this is a light G flavored sparkling water, they also have mango and kalin muncie which is like a type of line so let's.
And so they say it's made with real fruit you're supposed to serve it chilled.
And 20 calories sure.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:18):
hmm that's good.
Neha Sampat (04:20):
that's good it tastes like you're like having a light you but it's like.
yeah carbonation.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:28):
yeah toast very.
Like Asian.
Neha Sampat (04:32):
In like.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:33):
I don't know how to say it, you know what I mean.
Neha Sampat (04:36):
Is it.
Like people don't eat a lot i'd like to your lead she I don't know i've heard it both.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:40):
Ways in Chinese it's really cheap, but I think in English, most people say like cheap but i'm not sure.
Neha Sampat (04:45):
that's an interesting one, to look up later, but in India, you know in India people it's really a popular food, and it is so in China and other parts of Asia and not as well known here so.
kind of a delicacy and a lot of fun.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (04:58):
I love it. 3:42
Neha Sampat (05:00):
awesome so let's jump into your background tell me a little bit more about you and kind of your journey, so you have a PhD in biomedical engineering and started off in academia so tell us about what you were doing and then.
My understanding is that wasn't you know, academia wasn't your favorite thing tell us a little bit about that too.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (05:16):
yeah well yeah so I sort of grew up thinking that like you know science was truth right and I wanted to be you know.
adding to the knowledge base of humankind, or you know this, these like really lofty you know goals and I thought that was that was what I wanted to do, and hence I did a PhD and of course biomedical engineering was fascinating.
(05:42):
And so yeah so my PhD was at tufts university, I was studying near infrared spectroscopy that the technology that I just this is using but i'm just a different application so we were developing a diagnostic for.
Peripheral neuropathy, and so we thought that hey maybe we can tell before the nerve is damaged that you know, there is a change in the blood flow surrounding the nerve so that's what I did for my thesis
(06:26):
i'm a lot of diabetics get.
Peripheral neuropathy which is sort of tingling and they call it gloves and socks syndrome, a little bit because the hands and feet get tingly.
(07:16):
so I graduated in 2010.
And it wasn't a great time to find a job, and so you know i've always kind of wanted to work for startup but you know just yeah I didn't know where to start to be honest and I ended up doing a postdoc I came back to San Diego so I did my undergrad at ucsd also environmental engineering.
(07:40):
And I did a postdoc in in.
The Department pathology at ucsd Medical School and then I ended up doing another postdoc this time at.
scripps oceanography so my background, has been very sort of.
Broad and.
(08:01):
You know, come to realize like i'm more of a generalist than a sort of one, you know very deep understanding of one piece of the science, and so I think.
The the issue there is that if you're going to go into academia, you know as a professor, you know p-i you have to be very focused on the one thing that you're studying.
(08:23):
And I was just like I follow what I find interesting the projects that I find interesting and most of them are high risk, high reward prospects turns out.
That it's it's perfect you know fit for for a startup founder but um yeah So these are the types of problems you started been doing, but really all along and kind of building these different data.
(08:44):
data sets and building these skill sets that that will help me eventually in you know in my startup life
Neha Sampat (09:11):
around that time you also became a new mom.
and
You kind of experienced that it wasn't really like that.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (09:18):
That world with a.
Neha Sampat (09:19):
seeker empathetic towards moms what was that, like. Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (10:03):
You know, every three hours and, if I have to hike 15 minutes to get to the room and then pump for another 20 minutes or 30 minutes and then come back for 15 minutes and work for an hour and then by that time it's already been three hours, and then I have to hike again.
yeah so I didn't get much work done, you know after those those you know, three months, and then we did three months, maternity and then I had three months left of my contract and so by that by that time it was like Oh well, you didn't get much work done so we're not going to.
(10:36):
extend your your contract so yeah and I was like okay yeah that's fine I guess you know so it's just it wasn't the the most supportive.
place, to be honest um you know, and I think that's just in general, academia, you know, maybe it's starting to change a little bit for the better now hopefully, but when I was there, and also, you know engineering is mostly male.
Neha Sampat (11:05):
I think it's very similar in like the early earlier days in tech companies to because it was pretty male dominated and I just remember like I worked at a couple large companies where you'd have to go for buildings over to find.
a place that had a.
mom's room and it was just insane same experience like really not conducive to being productive and and just felt like so unfair to see that happening. 9:22
(11:30):
yeah okay so let's revisit my boy ties know.
What is that yeah okay Sounds like that training was kinda just what you needed at that point in time, and you said something in the pre-interview that was interesting, you said that fighting helped you defend yourself, both on and off the mat — can you expand on that? Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (14:16):
yeah and I think you know once I started fighting, so I actually you know competed in the ring, and that was a whole nother level of scary um.
But I realized that you know it was it's all about self confidence right like If you go into the ring and you're like “Okay I'm not going to win” you're not going to win And you know and it's the same same with the startup like you have to have just like the most on unpenetrable self confidence, and you know, as female founders it's difficult, right, to have that like positivity, and you know, mental state of like this is worth it, you know? The thing that I'm doing is going to better the world and no matter what comes at me, and the whole system's not built for me and that's okay, and all the biases implicit and explicit, you know I'm going to just do the best I can and that's all you can do for sure show up every day. And I always I always think about the importance of expecting to win in in the founder journey, because if you don't then what's the point? Like, show up and expect to win and you're going to fail, and you're going to be rejected, and you just have to get back up and back in the ring, so to speak 13:04
Neha Sampat (15:25):
Exactly so that takes us to hydro spaces, the company founded and it sounds like you kind of combined your world of science and business and then now fitness can you explain how did you come up with that concept.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (15:39):
yeah it was all through you know my personal experiences with hydration So when I started training, you know I realized like.
I crap all the time right like I didn't know how to hydrate myself and.
You know I hear all these things like drink eight glasses of water it's like Okay, but that doesn't mean anything if i'm going to the gym for like two hours right.
(16:00):
And so, then i'm like oh my buddy over here is like 250 pounds like do they also need the same amount of water and I quickly realized that you know it needs to be personalized right like.
If i'm in you know elite athlete versus you know, a couch potato versus a marathoner versus you know 250 pound, you know football nfl player like we're all going to need very different amounts of hydration.
(16:25):
And what is that and nobody knows literally nobody knows and it's like I tried to go out and buy these products right and it didn't exist, and I was like okay well.
You know what maybe I maybe I could do it right and, and so I thought about the.
The the signals that we were looking at you know when I was doing My thesis and one of the signals that we did see was was the hydration signal the water signal in the in the.
(16:52):
spectrum in the near infrared spectrum and we actually tried to avoid that signal, because it was it was.
Not what we were interested in, so we actually use that as like okay that's a noise we don't want to look at it, so we wanted to focus on whatever else we were looking at.
And I was like Oh, I wonder if we could just focus on that right, and so yeah it was really kind of all of these pieces of my life coming together and.
(17:16):
And then also quickly I realized, you know my background is biomedical engineering and there's a huge need in the clinic.
I experienced it when I was pregnant and everybody's like drink more water and I almost fainted and fell down a flight of stairs and i'm like this is super super dangerous like why can't I know. 15:11
(17:37):
Before I get lightheaded and low blood pressure that I needed more water right and and I didn't know, and so you know that that that really kick started the interest in the clinical path for me.
Neha Sampat (17:50):
yeah I mean that and what an inspiration right just to going through that journey yourself what where do you think the product is in terms of product by ability now.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (17:59):
yeah so we've actually proven that it works we've proven that it works on the bicep and the risk now, and the reason why we first of all, we kind of avoided the risk because the wrist very noisy place for a wearable but.
You know that's really where everybody is used to wearing devices.
And, and also we had all these smartwatch manufacturers, you know come coming to us and asking us for for these solutions so.
(18:23):
They really are excited for sort of the next big bio insight right everybody has steps and heart rate and you know pulse ox emitters, and all the fancy stuff.
And what is next right and so we're really sort of riding on this healthcare at the wrist right, and so we have all of these bio bio insights and we really feel like hydration is the next big bio insight.
(18:47):
So yeah right now we're we're evaluating our sensor systems and our algorithms with some of these top tier smartwatch manufacturers, hoping to get it out into you know some some well known.
smartwatch brands, by the end of 2023. 16:41
Neha Sampat (19:04):
Who that's awesome.
yeah, what do you think is your ultimate goal for hydro states.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (19:10):
I think what I would like to do for hydro stasis is really make this technology.
impactful and available for for all right, and by all I mean you know the consumer use case the clinical use case.
And even in sort of the philanthropic world where you know a lot of these non nonprofits are building wells right in areas where there's no access to water and you think like yeah if you tell them, you need more water they're going to be like no duh.
(19:43):
Right and that's not helpful but we've talked to a few of them and they actually said, you know it's actually quite helpful because, once we build that well.
People are not understanding how much water, they need to really be well right so to bring that health and wellness to these communities, so we really see the the the wide gamut you know of.
(20:07):
impact that hydration can have right because really like Water is life it's everywhere it's the you know biggest part of our human bodies and.
You know, so if we can make it accessible and understandable and build these better hydration habits, we can actually sort of prevent a lot of early onset chronic diseases. and especially our elderly are elderly whether it's with dementia, or any other things that they're dealing with um.
(20:53):
You know the thirst mechanism also starts to fade when you when you age, and so, if you're not feeling thirsty.
You know you're not going to want to drink water right unless somebody else like a physician or a caretaker or device is telling you hey you should drink some more water and so that's kind of you know where we think we would make a big impact as well. 18:48
Neha Sampat (21:14):
yeah that's awesome I mean I, like you have the I have the apple watch and it can remind me to stand up and in the same way if it told me to drink a glass of water, it just do it because it's the right thing.
yeah sometimes you need that push.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (21:28):
yeah yeah.
cuz right now yeah like right now the all the watches.
Are sort of reminders or you tell it, how much you've done it keeps track or.
You know you have these like smart water bottles that that kind of blinker or keep track or whatever right but there's nothing out there, that really measures hydration in the body and tells you what your body is doing in real time right so that's kind of the the.
Neha Sampat (21:53):
missing piece.
And the personalization of that not just again like not just a generic count. 19:32
But sadly, is typically to you so let's dig into the process of building your business it of course it's never an easy journey but it wasn't an easy journey, for you either, and you said you started from zero.
And as sort of an outsider to fundraising what has that process been like for you. 00:22:44.130 --> 00:23:00.840 Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (23:02):
The the the sort of life science folks are mostly male on the investor side and.
All investors across the board, are mostly male but especially on the deep tech and the life science sectors and so.
You know it's it's something that we're continuing to work with I work with several groups of you know, female focused investors and.
(23:28):
That you know as a founders perspective i'm trying to help build that side of the table as well um so yeah that's pretty much all we can do right, you know we've got to start somewhere and you gotta just keep going I guess right. 20:49
Neha Sampat (23:42):
Here sure, and like I remember early in my journey people used to ask me this all the time and it drove me nuts, because it wasn't right for me, but I'm going to ask you anyway So, why wouldn't you just ask your friends and family or people that you already know to invest in you? Debbie Chen
(25:54):
So what were some of the alternative sources of funding that you did get access to? Debbie Chen
(28:44):
We had a guest on this show that talked about our duty and partially that's just as women and women that have taken the leap to transfer the knowledge, meaning that we don't all have to make the same mistakes to have an equally difficult path What are some of the unsaid things that you learned by just going through this process, and you know, what would you share with people that are maybe a step behind you? Debbie Chen
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (31:11):
Exactly and that's.
Better for your company right So if you a lot of women think like oh yeah I want what's best for the company right.
And, and not so much like Oh, we must hold on to the ego.
kind of thing but what's best for the company is you write your wellness and you need to get sleep.
And you need to eat, you need to exercise, you need to be well mentally and physically right that's what's best for your company, and I think.
(31:38):
We take that a lot away from ourselves in our company sometimes like Oh, we have to work ourselves to the bones, and we don't need to sleep, you know and and that's not good for you or your company that's.
Neha Sampat (31:49):
really good advice, and I think the the follow on to that is that you're also setting an example for the people that work for you, with you.
And it's important that they see that you actually are taking.
Care of yourself.
Right, so that.
They can as well.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (32:01):
Exactly, I had a founder that actually asked you know, a group of women, you know how do I, you know build the culture, you know that we really you know.
don't work 90 hours a week right and they're like well we're right now we have a lot of milestones we've got to hit these things and and we have a short timeline so we're working 8090 hours a week and i'm in my head i'm like okay one you probably don't have children.
(32:27):
And to like they're looking to you to build a culture, so if you're working 90 hours a week.
And they, this is what they think they're expected right and you're probably driving them to burn out and you're probably going to burn out so you have to live that example in order for your employees to know that that's okay and that's what's expected. 29:25
Neha Sampat (32:48):
Absolutely, so I normally would move into rapid fire have one more question for you.
Sure it's really just addressing a common theme that you've.
talked about in your journey and that's that you refuse to be pigeonholed and maybe not really at first, but eventually in academia, they tried fundraising they tried, what would you say to our listeners, who are experiencing the same thing not quite being able to be themselves.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (33:13):
yeah, to be honest it's not something that I like said, I refuse to it's just it didn't work out, you know, like the way I tried to.
mold myself into whatever mold they wanted and like it was extremely uncomfortable it wasn't you know, perhaps values aligned.
I was uncomfortable doing it that way, whether it was you know, a business model or or you know how to hire my employees or whatever it is right.
(33:42):
And so I eventually found my own way, that I was comfortable with that I was happy with, and my team is spectacular and so it's sort of just again being self aware and figure out what works for you and your company, and that makes your employees happy.
And you know and that's that's what it is like, would you my question to myself always is like, if I had a hard day it's like, would you be rather be working for another company.
(34:06):
And if the answer is no, then you're like Okay, I had a hard day right, but I would still rather be working for this company and this team and and and this product, and this vision right.
So yeah I think that's that's it's like what makes you happy and comfortable and able to do your you know your dream.
Neha Sampat (34:28):
yeah do your best work be authentic and and be self aware, I think.
Are the big thing. 31:12
awesome okay i'm going to move into my for rapid fire questions, the first one of which is what's your wake up song.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (34:42):
I found that funny because I don't really have a wake up song, I have my five year old wakes me up every day he wakes me up around six or 630 every day so he's very excited to.
wake up.
But I think there's a couple songs that come to mind one is my shot from Hamilton.
So that always like pumps.
me up because i'm like yeah i'm gonna i'm not gonna miss my shot right.
(35:07):
And, and then the second one is actually a garden song by Dave mallet it's an older song, but it really talks about the lyrics like inch inch by inch row by row.
i'm gonna make this scarred and.
grow right so it's kind of like the startup.
journey right like it's not overnight.
You know, and you just do it, you know inch by inch day by day and you keep going and you.
(35:32):
love the harvest.
Neha Sampat (35:35):
that's awesome if you're 19 year old self asked you what what should I read, which I listened to you what would you say.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (35:43):
um I would say a lot of renee brown self awareness, a lot of sort of self empowerment.
And yeah just like you know understanding how you feel what what actually is the definition of an emotion right like and really like shame right like shame her shame research has been so.
(36:08):
Life changing for me.
Neha Sampat (36:12):
really good can you recommend a favorite beverage.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (36:21):
To be honest, I just love playing water sometimes have flavored water or anything in the water, I feel like it's not quenching my thirst.
um yeah I really just like regular water but yeah sounds I was really good, by the way.
Neha Sampat (36:39):
It from a hydration perspective doesn't matter if it's if it's playing water carbonated like can you can you get hydration from carbonated water in the same way.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (36:47):
In general I think people just drink less of carbonated water, because it gets you full.
um so that's yeah So for me if i'm really harsh I just need like regular.
water.
But if you're an you know, an athlete and stuff like that definitely need some electrolytes if you're exercising for more than 60 minutes you need some carbs with those electrolytes.
(37:08):
yeah so you know to me it's like if I need those, like any of those would work, but just day to day i'm just a big water.
Neha Sampat (37:17):
drinker I kind of knew, you were gonna say that.
And the final question is What should our listeners do tomorrow to help them become Dreammakers? Debbie Chen
(38:27):
Exactly.
amazing and thank you very much, this is a really fun conversation I enjoyed getting to know you and learning a lot from you and I appreciate you being on the show.
Hydrostasis - Debbie Chen (38:37):
Thank you so much, I had so much fun.
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