August 5, 2024 • 20 mins
Drilling It Down is back after a technology-induced hiatus! Join Wes Lyon and Tyler Ott as they unpack the implications of the FTC ban on non-compete agreements, emphasizing its effects on practice sales and associates. They explore strategies like offering ownership stakes to associates for enforceability and stress the significance of retaining key team members to prevent turnover challenges. The hosts also discuss the legal landscape, upcoming lawsuits, and advise seeking legal counsel to navigate the changing regulations. Stay informed and await updates before making significant decisions in response to the non-compete debate.
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Listen to our sister show, Next Gen DDS! An all-in-one resource for dental students, residents, and early career doctors, discussing both clinical and business aspects of dentistry, hosted by Wes Lyon and Dr. Scott Menaker.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wesley Lyon:
Welcome back to another episode of drilling it (00:02):
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Wesley Lyon: down we are back after a hiatus of (00:05):
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Wesley Lyon: destroying all our equipment messing everything up we (00:08):
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Wesley Lyon: do apologize but we've got it all together we're recording now and it's working (00:11):
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Wesley Lyon: if you're listening to it so with that my co-host tyler ott is here with me (00:16):
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Wesley Lyon: to record an episode on ftc bans on non-compete for at least the 17th time Yeah. (00:21):
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Tyler Ott: We're experts now. You know, we could do this podcast in our sleep, I think. (00:28):
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Wesley Lyon: Absolutely. So for those of you that don't know, the first day we recorded this (00:32):
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Wesley Lyon: podcast would have been like April 27th. (00:36):
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Wesley Lyon: That was when, right after the FTC released a final ruling on the banning of non-competes. (00:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So there's a lot in there, a lot to unpack. It was about 520 or 570 something (00:44):
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Wesley Lyon: pages long, I think, maybe 600 something. (00:50):
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Wesley Lyon: It's been a while since I had to read every word of it. (00:53):
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Wesley Lyon: But we want to go through and we want to give you the big takeaways, (00:56):
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Wesley Lyon: talk about what you need to know and what you need to do, what you need to be aware of. (00:59):
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Wesley Lyon: So, Tyra, kick it off here. What are the big three items? (01:03):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, big takeaways once that rule came out from the FTC was we had a lot of (01:06):
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Tyler Ott: clients worried about how this would impact practice sales. No worries there. (01:11):
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Tyler Ott: Non-competes are still going to be enforceable when related to a practice sale. (01:15):
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Tyler Ott: So, when you're selling, your practice value is still protected. (01:18):
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Tyler Ott: When you're buying, you don't have to worry about that practice owner setting (01:21):
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Tyler Ott: up shop down the street, taking away your value. So that's still protected. (01:25):
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Tyler Ott: Second takeaway was this is going to impact associates. So that's going to be (01:29):
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Tyler Ott: something to think about. (01:34):
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Tyler Ott: Third is hold your horses. Don't tear anything up. (01:36):
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Tyler Ott: This is going to go into the courts. There's already been lawsuits filed. (01:39):
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Tyler Ott: There's already court cases going on. (01:42):
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Tyler Ott: Judges are making rulings. It's going to end up probably going to the Supreme Court, honestly. (01:43):
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Tyler Ott: So just, you know, kind of wait and see. There's a lot of things happening right now. (01:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So first one there, you mentioned practice sales. (01:53):
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Wesley Lyon: So this might've been the one people aren't thinking through as much. (01:56):
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Wesley Lyon: When you sell your business as a dentist, you sell used dental equipment, (02:00):
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Wesley Lyon: which is extremely valuable on the market there. So you're going to get that full million dollars. (02:04):
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Wesley Lyon: Probably not. More than likely, most of the value is called up in goodwill and (02:09):
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Wesley Lyon: the ability of someone to use that goodwill is really why they're buying it. (02:16):
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Wesley Lyon: So if you have the ability to go across the street and take all the patients (02:20):
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Wesley Lyon: the next day, you don't really have anything to sell. So that was an important one. (02:23):
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Wesley Lyon: Diving into the details of it, I thought it was going to be a little more problematic than it was. (02:28):
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Wesley Lyon: The original rule, I think you had to own 25% or more. (02:34):
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Wesley Lyon: I think the final rule, I can't remember off the top of my head if it ended (02:37):
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Wesley Lyon: up, if bona fide was the word, a bona fide business sale. (02:40):
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Wesley Lyon: But basically, if you were part of a business sale, and this really stemmed (02:44):
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Wesley Lyon: from the tech world, because the tech guys were submitting their feedback going, (02:47):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, you know, somebody could sell or we could sell, they could get $20 million and they only owned 1%. (02:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, that's just not right. (02:58):
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Wesley Lyon: We should be able to hold their feet to the fire on a non-compete for $20 million. (03:01):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, hey, I might do a non-compete for $20 million. (03:04):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you can't blame them. So as long as you're part of a business sale, (03:08):
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Wesley Lyon: then you can be subject to it. (03:13):
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Wesley Lyon: So we don't really have a ton to go over there, But I bring that up because (03:14):
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Wesley Lyon: it might come back around on, you know, maybe as we peel back the curtain and (03:18):
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Wesley Lyon: try to look and say, hey, what could we do to get around this if it goes through? (03:25):
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Wesley Lyon: So, Tyler, I want you to talk about what's going on with the associate. (03:30):
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Wesley Lyon: But before I do that, I want to give everybody, you know, we'll call it, (03:33):
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Wesley Lyon: we're going to pick up the grass and see which way the wind is blowing. (03:37):
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Wesley Lyon: Now, for a lot of you, it might not matter. It's like us playing golf. (03:41):
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Wesley Lyon: We're still going to slice it in the woods, but hey, why not look cool and listen (03:44):
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Wesley Lyon: and pay attention and figure out which way the wind is blowing? (03:48):
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Wesley Lyon: But a lot of states are already going against the grain on non-competes. (03:51):
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Wesley Lyon: They don't like them. They want people to be able to move jobs. (03:55):
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Wesley Lyon: And they gave some absurd examples, of course, because it's the media and politics, (03:58):
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Wesley Lyon: but they were talking about like burger flippers, you know, having non-competes. (04:03):
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Wesley Lyon: I don't know that that's actually true, but there is some truth behind this (04:06):
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Wesley Lyon: for a lot of people have non-compete agreements that really can't do any damage to their companies. (04:11):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, they're at accounting firms, financial firms, things where really (04:16):
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Wesley Lyon: them going to another accounting firm is not going to matter. (04:20):
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Wesley Lyon: But they have these non-competes on them, and it's common in every industry. (04:23):
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Wesley Lyon: We're just accountants, so we talk about accounting. (04:27):
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Wesley Lyon: But it's common in every industry to see some of this for people that really (04:31):
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Wesley Lyon: shouldn't be subject to a non-compete. (04:35):
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Wesley Lyon: They aren't going to do any damage you know that there's just no way that this (04:37):
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Wesley Lyon: is going to have a negative impact other than you lost an employee but the employers (04:41):
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Wesley Lyon: like to put the non-competes on there to scare them and it costs a lot of money (04:45):
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Wesley Lyon: to fight this in court and you know they might, (04:50):
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Wesley Lyon: send one person or fight one person just to scare off all the others. (04:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And that's what they can be after sometimes. And that's what they're after getting (04:56):
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Wesley Lyon: rid of is, hey, we want people to have their free will. (05:00):
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Wesley Lyon: It didn't originally start with necessarily dentists, but here we are, (05:03):
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Wesley Lyon: and it's pretty cut and dry in there that this applies to dentists. (05:07):
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Tyler Ott: Exactly. Exactly. And I think that example applied to one of your buddies you (05:11):
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Tyler Ott: were mentioning that he had a non-compete and he was going to another company. (05:14):
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Tyler Ott: It wasn't an enforceable non-compete, But then, you know, the other company (05:19):
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Tyler Ott: that was hiring him heard wind of it. (05:23):
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Tyler Ott: They said, you know, we're not going to go through with this. (05:25):
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Tyler Ott: And then now he's out of a job. (05:27):
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Wesley Lyon: I forgot about that. He got a, this is a great example. He was leaving and he (05:29):
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Wesley Lyon: was going to a competitor, but he made sure he wasn't going to cover the same territory. (05:33):
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Wesley Lyon: So he was abiding by the non-compete, questionably enforceable non-compete to (05:38):
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Wesley Lyon: begin with, but he was abiding by the non-compete. (05:43):
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Wesley Lyon: And the former company sued him. The new company that said they were going to (05:46):
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Wesley Lyon: have his back did not. They let him go. (05:50):
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Wesley Lyon: So he's sitting in la-la land as a lawsuit is getting placed on him. (05:53):
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Wesley Lyon: And fortunately, his mom helped him fund the lawsuit because he was clearly going to win. (05:57):
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Wesley Lyon: He didn't violate the non-compete. And he won and got a settlement, (06:01):
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Wesley Lyon: but doesn't really cover up the fact that, you know, that's just a great example. (06:04):
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Wesley Lyon: If you don't have the money to fight the lawsuit, you're in trouble. (06:09):
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Wesley Lyon: You ain't going to leave. Yeah. (06:11):
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Wesley Lyon: So, yeah, but that's that's exactly what they're trying to put a ban to, (06:13):
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Wesley Lyon: which, Tower, I think I read it and it sounded like, you know, (06:16):
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Wesley Lyon: there was no highly compensated exception. (06:20):
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Wesley Lyon: So what's going on with the dentists and the associates and the non-competes? (06:24):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, dentists and associates right now, you know, essentially based on the (06:28):
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Tyler Ott: rule that the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, put out is that those non-competes (06:32):
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Tyler Ott: are unenforceable right now. (06:38):
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Tyler Ott: But I'm not saying if you're an associate, go tear up your non-compete right (06:40):
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Tyler Ott: now or, you know, freak out if you're an owner about your associates right now. (06:44):
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Tyler Ott: You know, again, as I mentioned, it's kind of have to wait and see. (06:48):
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Tyler Ott: And there are some ways, too, that if you did, you know, want to make sure that (06:52):
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Tyler Ott: your associates are hanging around, there are, you know, compensations and bonus (06:57):
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Tyler Ott: packages and benefits package that you can look into as a way to retain them. (07:00):
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Wesley Lyon: Now, we're going to come back to the legal side of it, whether or not this will stick or not. (07:04):
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Wesley Lyon: Let's just assume this rule stays in place as written. (07:09):
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Wesley Lyon: Somehow, some way, a judge says, hey, stamp of approval, we're good. Right. (07:15):
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Wesley Lyon: Associates are free to leave, right? (07:20):
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Tyler Ott: Yes. (07:21):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So, this could be a big shakeup, but there's certainly ways around it. (07:22):
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Wesley Lyon: So, before we get into the legal, Tyler, what are some ways that, (07:28):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, if I've got a, well, I guess we should start by clarifying. (07:32):
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Wesley Lyon: If your associate's only been there six months, they're going to leave and take (07:36):
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Wesley Lyon: a ton of patients from you. (07:39):
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Tyler Ott: You got a problem. (07:41):
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Wesley Lyon: Maybe we got to look in the mirror. (07:42):
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Tyler Ott: You're probably not at the practice. Yes. (07:44):
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Wesley Lyon: We need to look in the mirror on that one. But a lot of dentists out there, (07:45):
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Wesley Lyon: they do have long-term associates that have relationships with patients that were brought in. (07:49):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, this could be a big factor. So if we're in one of these, (07:53):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, what can we do about it? (07:57):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of similar to the corporate world. You hear a lot about stock options, (07:59):
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Tyler Ott: and there's some things that you cannot provide stock options to your associates (08:03):
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Tyler Ott: that have a vesting period that they require to stay at the practice for a certain (08:06):
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Tyler Ott: amount of time before they're able to vest and be able to exercise their stock (08:11):
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Tyler Ott: option, become an owner of the practice. (08:15):
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Tyler Ott: Practice, you may consider letting them buy in a small portion of the practice, (08:16):
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Tyler Ott: you know, a few percent here or there, you know, to tie them in, (08:21):
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Tyler Ott: to make them have, you know, a reason to improve the practice, (08:23):
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Tyler Ott: kind of have some skin in the game there. (08:27):
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Tyler Ott: Really just kind of giving them some compensation for a reason for that non-compete, really. (08:29):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah, and then once they become owners, they're partners, so now the non-compete is enforceable. (08:35):
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Tyler Ott: Exactly. (08:40):
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Wesley Lyon: And that's the big part there is, hey, you know, if we look at how can we make (08:40):
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Wesley Lyon: this enforceable, well, that would be one really, really good workaround. (08:45):
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Wesley Lyon: Again, only for, you know, dentists that have been there for a while. (08:49):
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Tyler Ott: You're not getting this for one, a fresh associate that you're just hiring on (08:52):
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Tyler Ott: for, you know, your temp work while you're on vacation. (08:55):
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Tyler Ott: This is for a valued associate that, you know, is there for you, (08:58):
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Tyler Ott: has a great rapport with the patients, and really provides value. (09:02):
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Wesley Lyon: It's kind of like a get engaged and date before you get married. (09:06):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you don't just go offer stock to somebody coming in the door. (09:09):
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Wesley Lyon: Oh, I'll get my non-compete enforceable. (09:12):
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Wesley Lyon: Let's wait to the point where we need to make this non-compete enforceable. (09:14):
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Tyler Ott: Now, that dating engaging example, that's a good one. That's a good analogy there. (09:18):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. You know, you've always got the friend that, you know, (09:23):
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Wesley Lyon: got enamored with every girl he ever saw or same with girls and you just know where it's going. (09:25):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, hey, let's not do that. Let's take it a little bit slower. (09:30):
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Tyler Ott: Wait until you know, then that's when you make the jump. (09:33):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. Because, you know, nobody likes getting divorced in the practice or, (09:36):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, in their personal lives. (09:39):
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Wesley Lyon: But once they have a little bit of ownership, and if it's not much, (09:41):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, they're a partner now, divorce is going to get ugly. So that's one way around it. (09:44):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, another way we've seen people try to get around it is to offer additional (09:49):
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Wesley Lyon: compensation in exchange for the non-compete. (09:52):
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Wesley Lyon: So that's another potential option there. But you really are starting to see (09:55):
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Wesley Lyon: a surgence of doctors that just are 10% owners over practice, (10:00):
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Wesley Lyon: it's becoming more common. (10:05):
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Wesley Lyon: Hey, they don't really want to be an owner, but you want to make sure they don't leap. (10:06):
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Tyler Ott: Mm-hmm. (10:10):
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Wesley Lyon: Well, great. Maybe I'll give them 10% of the profits. They'll be happy. (10:11):
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Wesley Lyon: I'll be happy. I'll never have to deal with this turnover. So that can be a (10:14):
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Wesley Lyon: great thing for everyone. (10:17):
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Wesley Lyon: But definitely something new in the marketplace and something you don't necessarily need to do now. (10:18):
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Wesley Lyon: You just need to be aware of this. Although it could be a good wake-up call for some. (10:24):
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Wesley Lyon: If your associate is that valuable to you, whether or not this non-competes (10:29):
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Wesley Lyon: an issue, you may just want to get ahead of the curve. (10:34):
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Tyler Ott: Absolutely. (10:36):
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Wesley Lyon: But yeah, now let's jump into my favorite part of this where, (10:38):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, the FTC passed a rule. (10:41):
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Wesley Lyon: The FTC is not a lawmaking body. (10:44):
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Wesley Lyon: The FTC, Federal Trade Commission, is an agency of the government, (10:47):
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Wesley Lyon: and they've been given powers, you know, as it was granted. (10:52):
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Wesley Lyon: But what those powers are, we're about to find out in the court system. (10:56):
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Wesley Lyon: So, we actually found out about this rule getting passed from, (11:01):
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Wesley Lyon: what was it, the accounting firm that I think just had the ruling. (11:05):
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Wesley Lyon: So, you know, a couple key things just note here, and we'll get into kind of (11:09):
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Wesley Lyon: who sued and what rulings do we have, do we have any injunctions in there. (11:14):
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Wesley Lyon: But basically, we've got a couple different issues. One, maybe people aren't (11:19):
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Wesley Lyon: thinking of the eminent domain. (11:24):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you think of it when, hey, the county wants to put a highway way through (11:25):
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Wesley Lyon: your yard and they just tell you they're going to pay you for it and take it, (11:29):
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Wesley Lyon: well, if the value of your business is based off some non-competes being enforceable (11:34):
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Wesley Lyon: and they're no longer enforceable, they've just taken property from you. (11:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So that's likely to get challenged. (11:42):
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Wesley Lyon: Another one, I think on the actual, they had, in order for a non-compete to (11:46):
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Wesley Lyon: be enforceable, you had to be an executive level or higher. (11:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And basically that wasn't defined by a title. It was defined by decision-making. (11:55):
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Wesley Lyon: Do you have decision-making ability over the future of the business? (12:00):
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Wesley Lyon: And one of these accounting firms sued and they said, hey, we've given all of (12:04):
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Wesley Lyon: these clients, all these partners in the accounting firm and their income partners, (12:09):
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Wesley Lyon: which we don't use the same terms in our world. (12:13):
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Wesley Lyon: Associates in our world are kids. (12:18):
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Wesley Lyon: And then income partners are or what y'all would refer to as associates. (12:22):
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Wesley Lyon: They get a cut of all of the revenue they produce. So, I mean, (12:28):
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Wesley Lyon: these income partners have the clients. They've been working on that team, (12:31):
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Wesley Lyon: and they've had the firm clients. (12:34):
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Wesley Lyon: I mean, they could take their team and just take the whole profit away, (12:35):
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Wesley Lyon: and that would be a very, very bad day. (12:37):
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Wesley Lyon: So that was one of the companies that sued. Another was just a pro-business (12:41):
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Wesley Lyon: group, and I know it's going to be wild where these lawsuits got filed, (12:45):
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Wesley Lyon: but it's almost you go look at the SEC listing for college football teams, (12:49):
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Wesley Lyon: and you just kind of throw a dart and see which one you think filed the lawsuit. (12:55):
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Wesley Lyon: This one was Texas though. So two lawsuits filed in Texas and one of them, (12:59):
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Wesley Lyon: I think they did not get this, (13:06):
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Wesley Lyon: The court didn't rule that it was on hold for everybody, but they ruled it was on hold for this firm. (13:10):
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Tyler Ott: Yes. (13:17):
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Wesley Lyon: So this is going to the courts. And that's why we say don't tear up the non-competes. (13:18):
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Wesley Lyon: I think really what they did was this is something they wanted done, (13:23):
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Wesley Lyon: and they don't know what's going to stick and what's not going to stick. (13:27):
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Wesley Lyon: So they said, hey, we're going to throw everything at it and see what sticks. (13:30):
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Wesley Lyon: So Tyler, you had mentioned it's maybe heading to the Supreme Court. (13:34):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, it's probably heading to the Supreme Court. The question is, (13:37):
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Tyler Ott: can the FTC do this? Do they have the authority? (13:40):
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Tyler Ott: Is it in line with what their abilities are? (13:45):
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Tyler Ott: Are they acting in their capacity? Can they even do this? And that's what the (13:50):
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Tyler Ott: judicial system is going to have to decide. Yeah. (13:55):
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Wesley Lyon: And for those of you listening out there, we are not attorneys. (13:57):
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Wesley Lyon: We are just CPAs giving their opinion. (14:00):
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Wesley Lyon: So, don't take this. If you are looking at a non-compete, you definitely need (14:03):
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Wesley Lyon: to work with an attorney, do all that. But I say that to tell you this next part. (14:07):
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Wesley Lyon: Again, I'm no attorney here. But interestingly enough, since this rule was passed, (14:11):
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Wesley Lyon: and today, the Chevron doctrine was overturned. (14:17):
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Wesley Lyon: And basically what that did, from my understanding, and again, (14:21):
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Wesley Lyon: I'm no political, no law expert, but it seemed as if government agencies, (14:25):
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Wesley Lyon: if they made a rule that was not specifically laid out in the law on whether (14:30):
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Wesley Lyon: or not they could handle it, or whether or not that was the intent of it... (14:36):
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Wesley Lyon: For a long, long time, they would just, the courts would just defer to the agency. (14:41):
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Wesley Lyon: And they overturned that by, you know, saying, no, if the agency wasn't specifically (14:47):
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Wesley Lyon: given this power, then, you know, absolutely not. (14:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And I think, again, I didn't read a ton about this, but I think, (14:56):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, it was, maybe it was the EPA. (15:01):
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Tyler Ott: That's what I think so, yeah. (15:03):
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Wesley Lyon: It was something though, and it was a group of fishermen that they had to comply with this rule. (15:04):
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Wesley Lyon: And I don't know that it was the rule that was actually the issue more than (15:09):
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Wesley Lyon: the fact that they were making the fishermen pay $700 a day. (15:13):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, yeah, you overstepped your bounds here. Absolutely not. (15:16):
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Wesley Lyon: They have to make a law to force these fishermen to pay. And again, (15:20):
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Wesley Lyon: I know I'm botching this. (15:25):
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Wesley Lyon: I'm just saying it's kind of ironic here. Here we are, we're going back and (15:27):
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Wesley Lyon: we've got something similar that's going to come on the docket. (15:31):
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Wesley Lyon: So where this goes, where it ends up, I don't have the slightest clue. (15:34):
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Wesley Lyon: All I know is it ain't even close to over yet. (15:39):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah. I think it was initially going to be, the rule was going to be fully in effect in September. (15:42):
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Tyler Ott: That's when the ruling has to go down for this injunction. And that's not going (15:48):
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Tyler Ott: to happen. It's going to be months. (15:53):
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Tyler Ott: Who knows when this is going to be finally resolved. (15:54):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So don't tear up your non-competes in the meantime. (15:57):
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Wesley Lyon: Use it as a wake-up call though. Hey, If you do have someone extremely valuable (16:01):
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Wesley Lyon: to you, you know, maybe we want to do something about that. (16:05):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you never want to have your most valued people just getting paid whatever (16:10):
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Wesley Lyon: because, you know, it's like Jonathan and I were talking about, (16:13):
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Wesley Lyon: well, I mean, yeah, if you just think of that one, would I ever want to pay (16:16):
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Wesley Lyon: a, you know, general practitioner or overpay them a percentage of collections? (16:20):
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Wesley Lyon: The answer is no, unless they brought a whole bunch of revenue with them. (16:24):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, if they have their own patient, their own loyal following, (16:28):
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Wesley Lyon: and I'm across the street and they say, hey, I want a new home. (16:32):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, well, you know, I'll pay you 30% on the business that you do for (16:34):
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Wesley Lyon: my patients and I'll pay you 40% for all the patients you bring over. (16:39):
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Wesley Lyon: I mean, hopefully dentists are a friendly bunch. So I don't really see them (16:43):
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Wesley Lyon: doing all that. But hey, one of these corporate buyers could. (16:47):
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Tyler Ott: Absolutely. (16:51):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah, so don't tear them up. Oh, they're trying to ban them for associates, (16:53):
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Wesley Lyon: and business sales are in good standing, and the lawsuits are just heating up. (16:57):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. (17:03):
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Wesley Lyon: But for now, not a whole lot to do. For those of you younger doctors, (17:06):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, kind of looking at this or listening, you know, hey, (17:11):
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Wesley Lyon: use this wake-up call to be careful of what you sign. (17:16):
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Wesley Lyon: You're still going to be asked to sign a non-compete, but hey, is it reasonable? (17:19):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, some people, they like to just try to trap you in a corner. (17:23):
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Wesley Lyon: Same thing, talking with my buddy, they'll say, hey, this non-compete is enforceable for 70 miles. (17:26):
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Wesley Lyon: And it's like, well, what's the point of that? You're not practicing dentistry 70 miles from here. (17:31):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah. I mean, and a lot of these attorneys offer a contract review and we're not attorneys. (17:36):
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Tyler Ott: It would definitely be valuable that if you're expected to sign something, (17:42):
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Tyler Ott: having someone that's an expert on it to review it and to make sure that it (17:45):
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Tyler Ott: makes, you know, it's legal in a sense. (17:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Definitely, and Patrick Craig does those here. So we have somebody that can (17:51):
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Wesley Lyon: help you out with that, you know, make sure you're in good standing. (17:54):
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Wesley Lyon: But, you know, overall though, just like every big ruling that comes out, (17:57):
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Wesley Lyon: every big media piece, you know, keep calm. (18:01):
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Wesley Lyon: It ain't over yet. It's really just getting started. But my guess will be that (18:04):
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Wesley Lyon: we're not going to end as strict as this was written. (18:08):
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Tyler Ott: And either way, if something happens, we're here to give you the guidance on (18:13):
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Tyler Ott: it once it all, once all the dust settles and we get the final, you know, say. (18:16):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. And with that, we thank you all for tuning in. One last quick tidbit. (18:20):
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Wesley Lyon: We are going to St. Thomas on January 20th. We have the Ritz-Cartland, going to be awesome. (18:26):
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Wesley Lyon: I just talked to Sarah about putting an advertisement out and she informed me (18:33):
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Wesley Lyon: that we're already filling up. (18:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So if you are listening, it's a great one, going to be five days. (18:39):
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Wesley Lyon: You don't have to come to every day, but at 8.30 to 12.30 or maybe 8 to 12. We do education. (18:43):
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Wesley Lyon: Then after that, you're in St. Thomas. We're going to jump on the catamaran. (18:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Hopefully, we're going to get to see, you know, St. (18:53):
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Wesley Lyon: Thomas is sitting right there. Hopefully, we get to take it and see a nice little tour of Epstein Island. (18:56):
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Wesley Lyon: From the outside, though, not the inside. We just want to take a look at it. (19:02):
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Wesley Lyon: But that's right there. And then otherwise, it's a great place, (19:06):
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Wesley Lyon: great little restaurants there. And weather's beautiful. (19:10):
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Wesley Lyon: It's in January. January you're not going to want to miss out so make sure get (19:12):
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Wesley Lyon: in there sign up today otherwise we will see you next time. (19:16):
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Wesley Lyon: down we are back after a hiatus of (00:05):
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Wesley Lyon: destroying all our equipment messing everything up we (00:08):
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Wesley Lyon: do apologize but we've got it all together we're recording now and it's working (00:11):
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Wesley Lyon: if you're listening to it so with that my co-host tyler ott is here with me (00:16):
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Wesley Lyon: to record an episode on ftc bans on non-compete for at least the 17th time Yeah. (00:21):
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Tyler Ott: We're experts now. You know, we could do this podcast in our sleep, I think. (00:28):
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Wesley Lyon: Absolutely. So for those of you that don't know, the first day we recorded this (00:32):
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Wesley Lyon: podcast would have been like April 27th. (00:36):
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Wesley Lyon: That was when, right after the FTC released a final ruling on the banning of non-competes. (00:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So there's a lot in there, a lot to unpack. It was about 520 or 570 something (00:44):
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Wesley Lyon: pages long, I think, maybe 600 something. (00:50):
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Wesley Lyon: It's been a while since I had to read every word of it. (00:53):
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Wesley Lyon: But we want to go through and we want to give you the big takeaways, (00:56):
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Wesley Lyon: talk about what you need to know and what you need to do, what you need to be aware of. (00:59):
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Wesley Lyon: So, Tyra, kick it off here. What are the big three items? (01:03):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, big takeaways once that rule came out from the FTC was we had a lot of (01:06):
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Tyler Ott: clients worried about how this would impact practice sales. No worries there. (01:11):
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Tyler Ott: Non-competes are still going to be enforceable when related to a practice sale. (01:15):
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Tyler Ott: So, when you're selling, your practice value is still protected. (01:18):
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Tyler Ott: When you're buying, you don't have to worry about that practice owner setting (01:21):
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Tyler Ott: up shop down the street, taking away your value. So that's still protected. (01:25):
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Tyler Ott: Second takeaway was this is going to impact associates. So that's going to be (01:29):
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Tyler Ott: something to think about. (01:34):
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Tyler Ott: Third is hold your horses. Don't tear anything up. (01:36):
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Tyler Ott: This is going to go into the courts. There's already been lawsuits filed. (01:39):
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Tyler Ott: There's already court cases going on. (01:42):
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Tyler Ott: Judges are making rulings. It's going to end up probably going to the Supreme Court, honestly. (01:43):
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Tyler Ott: So just, you know, kind of wait and see. There's a lot of things happening right now. (01:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So first one there, you mentioned practice sales. (01:53):
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Wesley Lyon: So this might've been the one people aren't thinking through as much. (01:56):
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Wesley Lyon: When you sell your business as a dentist, you sell used dental equipment, (02:00):
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Wesley Lyon: which is extremely valuable on the market there. So you're going to get that full million dollars. (02:04):
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Wesley Lyon: Probably not. More than likely, most of the value is called up in goodwill and (02:09):
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Wesley Lyon: the ability of someone to use that goodwill is really why they're buying it. (02:16):
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Wesley Lyon: So if you have the ability to go across the street and take all the patients (02:20):
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Wesley Lyon: the next day, you don't really have anything to sell. So that was an important one. (02:23):
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Wesley Lyon: Diving into the details of it, I thought it was going to be a little more problematic than it was. (02:28):
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Wesley Lyon: The original rule, I think you had to own 25% or more. (02:34):
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Wesley Lyon: I think the final rule, I can't remember off the top of my head if it ended (02:37):
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Wesley Lyon: up, if bona fide was the word, a bona fide business sale. (02:40):
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Wesley Lyon: But basically, if you were part of a business sale, and this really stemmed (02:44):
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Wesley Lyon: from the tech world, because the tech guys were submitting their feedback going, (02:47):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, you know, somebody could sell or we could sell, they could get $20 million and they only owned 1%. (02:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, that's just not right. (02:58):
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Wesley Lyon: We should be able to hold their feet to the fire on a non-compete for $20 million. (03:01):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, hey, I might do a non-compete for $20 million. (03:04):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you can't blame them. So as long as you're part of a business sale, (03:08):
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Wesley Lyon: then you can be subject to it. (03:13):
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Wesley Lyon: So we don't really have a ton to go over there, But I bring that up because (03:14):
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Wesley Lyon: it might come back around on, you know, maybe as we peel back the curtain and (03:18):
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Wesley Lyon: try to look and say, hey, what could we do to get around this if it goes through? (03:25):
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Wesley Lyon: So, Tyler, I want you to talk about what's going on with the associate. (03:30):
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Wesley Lyon: But before I do that, I want to give everybody, you know, we'll call it, (03:33):
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Wesley Lyon: we're going to pick up the grass and see which way the wind is blowing. (03:37):
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Wesley Lyon: Now, for a lot of you, it might not matter. It's like us playing golf. (03:41):
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Wesley Lyon: We're still going to slice it in the woods, but hey, why not look cool and listen (03:44):
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Wesley Lyon: and pay attention and figure out which way the wind is blowing? (03:48):
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Wesley Lyon: But a lot of states are already going against the grain on non-competes. (03:51):
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Wesley Lyon: They don't like them. They want people to be able to move jobs. (03:55):
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Wesley Lyon: And they gave some absurd examples, of course, because it's the media and politics, (03:58):
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Wesley Lyon: but they were talking about like burger flippers, you know, having non-competes. (04:03):
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Wesley Lyon: I don't know that that's actually true, but there is some truth behind this (04:06):
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Wesley Lyon: for a lot of people have non-compete agreements that really can't do any damage to their companies. (04:11):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, they're at accounting firms, financial firms, things where really (04:16):
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Wesley Lyon: them going to another accounting firm is not going to matter. (04:20):
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Wesley Lyon: But they have these non-competes on them, and it's common in every industry. (04:23):
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Wesley Lyon: We're just accountants, so we talk about accounting. (04:27):
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Wesley Lyon: But it's common in every industry to see some of this for people that really (04:31):
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Wesley Lyon: shouldn't be subject to a non-compete. (04:35):
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Wesley Lyon: They aren't going to do any damage you know that there's just no way that this (04:37):
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Wesley Lyon: is going to have a negative impact other than you lost an employee but the employers (04:41):
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Wesley Lyon: like to put the non-competes on there to scare them and it costs a lot of money (04:45):
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Wesley Lyon: to fight this in court and you know they might, (04:50):
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Wesley Lyon: send one person or fight one person just to scare off all the others. (04:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And that's what they can be after sometimes. And that's what they're after getting (04:56):
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Wesley Lyon: rid of is, hey, we want people to have their free will. (05:00):
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Wesley Lyon: It didn't originally start with necessarily dentists, but here we are, (05:03):
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Wesley Lyon: and it's pretty cut and dry in there that this applies to dentists. (05:07):
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Tyler Ott: Exactly. Exactly. And I think that example applied to one of your buddies you (05:11):
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Tyler Ott: were mentioning that he had a non-compete and he was going to another company. (05:14):
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Tyler Ott: It wasn't an enforceable non-compete, But then, you know, the other company (05:19):
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Tyler Ott: that was hiring him heard wind of it. (05:23):
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Tyler Ott: They said, you know, we're not going to go through with this. (05:25):
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Tyler Ott: And then now he's out of a job. (05:27):
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Wesley Lyon: I forgot about that. He got a, this is a great example. He was leaving and he (05:29):
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Wesley Lyon: was going to a competitor, but he made sure he wasn't going to cover the same territory. (05:33):
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Wesley Lyon: So he was abiding by the non-compete, questionably enforceable non-compete to (05:38):
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Wesley Lyon: begin with, but he was abiding by the non-compete. (05:43):
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Wesley Lyon: And the former company sued him. The new company that said they were going to (05:46):
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Wesley Lyon: have his back did not. They let him go. (05:50):
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Wesley Lyon: So he's sitting in la-la land as a lawsuit is getting placed on him. (05:53):
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Wesley Lyon: And fortunately, his mom helped him fund the lawsuit because he was clearly going to win. (05:57):
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Wesley Lyon: He didn't violate the non-compete. And he won and got a settlement, (06:01):
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Wesley Lyon: but doesn't really cover up the fact that, you know, that's just a great example. (06:04):
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Wesley Lyon: If you don't have the money to fight the lawsuit, you're in trouble. (06:09):
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Wesley Lyon: You ain't going to leave. Yeah. (06:11):
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Wesley Lyon: So, yeah, but that's that's exactly what they're trying to put a ban to, (06:13):
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Wesley Lyon: which, Tower, I think I read it and it sounded like, you know, (06:16):
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Wesley Lyon: there was no highly compensated exception. (06:20):
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Wesley Lyon: So what's going on with the dentists and the associates and the non-competes? (06:24):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, dentists and associates right now, you know, essentially based on the (06:28):
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Tyler Ott: rule that the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, put out is that those non-competes (06:32):
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Tyler Ott: are unenforceable right now. (06:38):
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Tyler Ott: But I'm not saying if you're an associate, go tear up your non-compete right (06:40):
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Tyler Ott: now or, you know, freak out if you're an owner about your associates right now. (06:44):
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Tyler Ott: You know, again, as I mentioned, it's kind of have to wait and see. (06:48):
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Tyler Ott: And there are some ways, too, that if you did, you know, want to make sure that (06:52):
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Tyler Ott: your associates are hanging around, there are, you know, compensations and bonus (06:57):
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Tyler Ott: packages and benefits package that you can look into as a way to retain them. (07:00):
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Wesley Lyon: Now, we're going to come back to the legal side of it, whether or not this will stick or not. (07:04):
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Wesley Lyon: Let's just assume this rule stays in place as written. (07:09):
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Wesley Lyon: Somehow, some way, a judge says, hey, stamp of approval, we're good. Right. (07:15):
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Wesley Lyon: Associates are free to leave, right? (07:20):
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Tyler Ott: Yes. (07:21):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So, this could be a big shakeup, but there's certainly ways around it. (07:22):
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Wesley Lyon: So, before we get into the legal, Tyler, what are some ways that, (07:28):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, if I've got a, well, I guess we should start by clarifying. (07:32):
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Wesley Lyon: If your associate's only been there six months, they're going to leave and take (07:36):
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Wesley Lyon: a ton of patients from you. (07:39):
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Tyler Ott: You got a problem. (07:41):
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Wesley Lyon: Maybe we got to look in the mirror. (07:42):
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Tyler Ott: You're probably not at the practice. Yes. (07:44):
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Wesley Lyon: We need to look in the mirror on that one. But a lot of dentists out there, (07:45):
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Wesley Lyon: they do have long-term associates that have relationships with patients that were brought in. (07:49):
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Wesley Lyon: And, you know, this could be a big factor. So if we're in one of these, (07:53):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, what can we do about it? (07:57):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of similar to the corporate world. You hear a lot about stock options, (07:59):
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Tyler Ott: and there's some things that you cannot provide stock options to your associates (08:03):
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Tyler Ott: that have a vesting period that they require to stay at the practice for a certain (08:06):
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Tyler Ott: amount of time before they're able to vest and be able to exercise their stock (08:11):
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Tyler Ott: option, become an owner of the practice. (08:15):
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Tyler Ott: Practice, you may consider letting them buy in a small portion of the practice, (08:16):
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Tyler Ott: you know, a few percent here or there, you know, to tie them in, (08:21):
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Tyler Ott: to make them have, you know, a reason to improve the practice, (08:23):
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Tyler Ott: kind of have some skin in the game there. (08:27):
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Tyler Ott: Really just kind of giving them some compensation for a reason for that non-compete, really. (08:29):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah, and then once they become owners, they're partners, so now the non-compete is enforceable. (08:35):
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Tyler Ott: Exactly. (08:40):
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Wesley Lyon: And that's the big part there is, hey, you know, if we look at how can we make (08:40):
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Wesley Lyon: this enforceable, well, that would be one really, really good workaround. (08:45):
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Wesley Lyon: Again, only for, you know, dentists that have been there for a while. (08:49):
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Tyler Ott: You're not getting this for one, a fresh associate that you're just hiring on (08:52):
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Tyler Ott: for, you know, your temp work while you're on vacation. (08:55):
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Tyler Ott: This is for a valued associate that, you know, is there for you, (08:58):
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Tyler Ott: has a great rapport with the patients, and really provides value. (09:02):
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Wesley Lyon: It's kind of like a get engaged and date before you get married. (09:06):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you don't just go offer stock to somebody coming in the door. (09:09):
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Wesley Lyon: Oh, I'll get my non-compete enforceable. (09:12):
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Wesley Lyon: Let's wait to the point where we need to make this non-compete enforceable. (09:14):
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Tyler Ott: Now, that dating engaging example, that's a good one. That's a good analogy there. (09:18):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. You know, you've always got the friend that, you know, (09:23):
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Wesley Lyon: got enamored with every girl he ever saw or same with girls and you just know where it's going. (09:25):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, hey, let's not do that. Let's take it a little bit slower. (09:30):
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Tyler Ott: Wait until you know, then that's when you make the jump. (09:33):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. Because, you know, nobody likes getting divorced in the practice or, (09:36):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, in their personal lives. (09:39):
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Wesley Lyon: But once they have a little bit of ownership, and if it's not much, (09:41):
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Wesley Lyon: hey, they're a partner now, divorce is going to get ugly. So that's one way around it. (09:44):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, another way we've seen people try to get around it is to offer additional (09:49):
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Wesley Lyon: compensation in exchange for the non-compete. (09:52):
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Wesley Lyon: So that's another potential option there. But you really are starting to see (09:55):
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Wesley Lyon: a surgence of doctors that just are 10% owners over practice, (10:00):
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Wesley Lyon: it's becoming more common. (10:05):
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Wesley Lyon: Hey, they don't really want to be an owner, but you want to make sure they don't leap. (10:06):
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Tyler Ott: Mm-hmm. (10:10):
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Wesley Lyon: Well, great. Maybe I'll give them 10% of the profits. They'll be happy. (10:11):
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Wesley Lyon: I'll be happy. I'll never have to deal with this turnover. So that can be a (10:14):
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Wesley Lyon: great thing for everyone. (10:17):
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Wesley Lyon: But definitely something new in the marketplace and something you don't necessarily need to do now. (10:18):
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Wesley Lyon: You just need to be aware of this. Although it could be a good wake-up call for some. (10:24):
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Wesley Lyon: If your associate is that valuable to you, whether or not this non-competes (10:29):
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Wesley Lyon: an issue, you may just want to get ahead of the curve. (10:34):
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Tyler Ott: Absolutely. (10:36):
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Wesley Lyon: But yeah, now let's jump into my favorite part of this where, (10:38):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, the FTC passed a rule. (10:41):
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Wesley Lyon: The FTC is not a lawmaking body. (10:44):
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Wesley Lyon: The FTC, Federal Trade Commission, is an agency of the government, (10:47):
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Wesley Lyon: and they've been given powers, you know, as it was granted. (10:52):
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Wesley Lyon: But what those powers are, we're about to find out in the court system. (10:56):
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Wesley Lyon: So, we actually found out about this rule getting passed from, (11:01):
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Wesley Lyon: what was it, the accounting firm that I think just had the ruling. (11:05):
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Wesley Lyon: So, you know, a couple key things just note here, and we'll get into kind of (11:09):
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Wesley Lyon: who sued and what rulings do we have, do we have any injunctions in there. (11:14):
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Wesley Lyon: But basically, we've got a couple different issues. One, maybe people aren't (11:19):
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Wesley Lyon: thinking of the eminent domain. (11:24):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you think of it when, hey, the county wants to put a highway way through (11:25):
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Wesley Lyon: your yard and they just tell you they're going to pay you for it and take it, (11:29):
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Wesley Lyon: well, if the value of your business is based off some non-competes being enforceable (11:34):
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Wesley Lyon: and they're no longer enforceable, they've just taken property from you. (11:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So that's likely to get challenged. (11:42):
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Wesley Lyon: Another one, I think on the actual, they had, in order for a non-compete to (11:46):
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Wesley Lyon: be enforceable, you had to be an executive level or higher. (11:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And basically that wasn't defined by a title. It was defined by decision-making. (11:55):
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Wesley Lyon: Do you have decision-making ability over the future of the business? (12:00):
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Wesley Lyon: And one of these accounting firms sued and they said, hey, we've given all of (12:04):
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Wesley Lyon: these clients, all these partners in the accounting firm and their income partners, (12:09):
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Wesley Lyon: which we don't use the same terms in our world. (12:13):
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Wesley Lyon: Associates in our world are kids. (12:18):
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Wesley Lyon: And then income partners are or what y'all would refer to as associates. (12:22):
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Wesley Lyon: They get a cut of all of the revenue they produce. So, I mean, (12:28):
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Wesley Lyon: these income partners have the clients. They've been working on that team, (12:31):
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Wesley Lyon: and they've had the firm clients. (12:34):
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Wesley Lyon: I mean, they could take their team and just take the whole profit away, (12:35):
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Wesley Lyon: and that would be a very, very bad day. (12:37):
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Wesley Lyon: So that was one of the companies that sued. Another was just a pro-business (12:41):
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Wesley Lyon: group, and I know it's going to be wild where these lawsuits got filed, (12:45):
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Wesley Lyon: but it's almost you go look at the SEC listing for college football teams, (12:49):
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Wesley Lyon: and you just kind of throw a dart and see which one you think filed the lawsuit. (12:55):
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Wesley Lyon: This one was Texas though. So two lawsuits filed in Texas and one of them, (12:59):
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Wesley Lyon: I think they did not get this, (13:06):
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Wesley Lyon: The court didn't rule that it was on hold for everybody, but they ruled it was on hold for this firm. (13:10):
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Tyler Ott: Yes. (13:17):
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Wesley Lyon: So this is going to the courts. And that's why we say don't tear up the non-competes. (13:18):
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Wesley Lyon: I think really what they did was this is something they wanted done, (13:23):
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Wesley Lyon: and they don't know what's going to stick and what's not going to stick. (13:27):
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Wesley Lyon: So they said, hey, we're going to throw everything at it and see what sticks. (13:30):
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Wesley Lyon: So Tyler, you had mentioned it's maybe heading to the Supreme Court. (13:34):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, it's probably heading to the Supreme Court. The question is, (13:37):
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Tyler Ott: can the FTC do this? Do they have the authority? (13:40):
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Tyler Ott: Is it in line with what their abilities are? (13:45):
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Tyler Ott: Are they acting in their capacity? Can they even do this? And that's what the (13:50):
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Tyler Ott: judicial system is going to have to decide. Yeah. (13:55):
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Wesley Lyon: And for those of you listening out there, we are not attorneys. (13:57):
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Wesley Lyon: We are just CPAs giving their opinion. (14:00):
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Wesley Lyon: So, don't take this. If you are looking at a non-compete, you definitely need (14:03):
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Wesley Lyon: to work with an attorney, do all that. But I say that to tell you this next part. (14:07):
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Wesley Lyon: Again, I'm no attorney here. But interestingly enough, since this rule was passed, (14:11):
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Wesley Lyon: and today, the Chevron doctrine was overturned. (14:17):
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Wesley Lyon: And basically what that did, from my understanding, and again, (14:21):
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Wesley Lyon: I'm no political, no law expert, but it seemed as if government agencies, (14:25):
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Wesley Lyon: if they made a rule that was not specifically laid out in the law on whether (14:30):
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Wesley Lyon: or not they could handle it, or whether or not that was the intent of it... (14:36):
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Wesley Lyon: For a long, long time, they would just, the courts would just defer to the agency. (14:41):
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Wesley Lyon: And they overturned that by, you know, saying, no, if the agency wasn't specifically (14:47):
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Wesley Lyon: given this power, then, you know, absolutely not. (14:52):
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Wesley Lyon: And I think, again, I didn't read a ton about this, but I think, (14:56):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, it was, maybe it was the EPA. (15:01):
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Tyler Ott: That's what I think so, yeah. (15:03):
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Wesley Lyon: It was something though, and it was a group of fishermen that they had to comply with this rule. (15:04):
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Wesley Lyon: And I don't know that it was the rule that was actually the issue more than (15:09):
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Wesley Lyon: the fact that they were making the fishermen pay $700 a day. (15:13):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, yeah, you overstepped your bounds here. Absolutely not. (15:16):
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Wesley Lyon: They have to make a law to force these fishermen to pay. And again, (15:20):
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Wesley Lyon: I know I'm botching this. (15:25):
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Wesley Lyon: I'm just saying it's kind of ironic here. Here we are, we're going back and (15:27):
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Wesley Lyon: we've got something similar that's going to come on the docket. (15:31):
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Wesley Lyon: So where this goes, where it ends up, I don't have the slightest clue. (15:34):
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Wesley Lyon: All I know is it ain't even close to over yet. (15:39):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah. I think it was initially going to be, the rule was going to be fully in effect in September. (15:42):
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Tyler Ott: That's when the ruling has to go down for this injunction. And that's not going (15:48):
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Tyler Ott: to happen. It's going to be months. (15:53):
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Tyler Ott: Who knows when this is going to be finally resolved. (15:54):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. So don't tear up your non-competes in the meantime. (15:57):
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Wesley Lyon: Use it as a wake-up call though. Hey, If you do have someone extremely valuable (16:01):
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Wesley Lyon: to you, you know, maybe we want to do something about that. (16:05):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, you never want to have your most valued people just getting paid whatever (16:10):
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Wesley Lyon: because, you know, it's like Jonathan and I were talking about, (16:13):
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Wesley Lyon: well, I mean, yeah, if you just think of that one, would I ever want to pay (16:16):
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Wesley Lyon: a, you know, general practitioner or overpay them a percentage of collections? (16:20):
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Wesley Lyon: The answer is no, unless they brought a whole bunch of revenue with them. (16:24):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, if they have their own patient, their own loyal following, (16:28):
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Wesley Lyon: and I'm across the street and they say, hey, I want a new home. (16:32):
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Wesley Lyon: It's like, well, you know, I'll pay you 30% on the business that you do for (16:34):
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Wesley Lyon: my patients and I'll pay you 40% for all the patients you bring over. (16:39):
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Wesley Lyon: I mean, hopefully dentists are a friendly bunch. So I don't really see them (16:43):
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Wesley Lyon: doing all that. But hey, one of these corporate buyers could. (16:47):
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Tyler Ott: Absolutely. (16:51):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah, so don't tear them up. Oh, they're trying to ban them for associates, (16:53):
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Wesley Lyon: and business sales are in good standing, and the lawsuits are just heating up. (16:57):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. (17:03):
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Wesley Lyon: But for now, not a whole lot to do. For those of you younger doctors, (17:06):
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Wesley Lyon: you know, kind of looking at this or listening, you know, hey, (17:11):
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Wesley Lyon: use this wake-up call to be careful of what you sign. (17:16):
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Wesley Lyon: You're still going to be asked to sign a non-compete, but hey, is it reasonable? (17:19):
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Wesley Lyon: You know, some people, they like to just try to trap you in a corner. (17:23):
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Wesley Lyon: Same thing, talking with my buddy, they'll say, hey, this non-compete is enforceable for 70 miles. (17:26):
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Wesley Lyon: And it's like, well, what's the point of that? You're not practicing dentistry 70 miles from here. (17:31):
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Tyler Ott: Yeah. I mean, and a lot of these attorneys offer a contract review and we're not attorneys. (17:36):
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Tyler Ott: It would definitely be valuable that if you're expected to sign something, (17:42):
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Tyler Ott: having someone that's an expert on it to review it and to make sure that it (17:45):
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Tyler Ott: makes, you know, it's legal in a sense. (17:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Definitely, and Patrick Craig does those here. So we have somebody that can (17:51):
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Wesley Lyon: help you out with that, you know, make sure you're in good standing. (17:54):
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Wesley Lyon: But, you know, overall though, just like every big ruling that comes out, (17:57):
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Wesley Lyon: every big media piece, you know, keep calm. (18:01):
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Wesley Lyon: It ain't over yet. It's really just getting started. But my guess will be that (18:04):
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Wesley Lyon: we're not going to end as strict as this was written. (18:08):
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Tyler Ott: And either way, if something happens, we're here to give you the guidance on (18:13):
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Tyler Ott: it once it all, once all the dust settles and we get the final, you know, say. (18:16):
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Wesley Lyon: Yeah. And with that, we thank you all for tuning in. One last quick tidbit. (18:20):
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Wesley Lyon: We are going to St. Thomas on January 20th. We have the Ritz-Cartland, going to be awesome. (18:26):
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Wesley Lyon: I just talked to Sarah about putting an advertisement out and she informed me (18:33):
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Wesley Lyon: that we're already filling up. (18:38):
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Wesley Lyon: So if you are listening, it's a great one, going to be five days. (18:39):
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Wesley Lyon: You don't have to come to every day, but at 8.30 to 12.30 or maybe 8 to 12. We do education. (18:43):
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Wesley Lyon: Then after that, you're in St. Thomas. We're going to jump on the catamaran. (18:48):
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Wesley Lyon: Hopefully, we're going to get to see, you know, St. (18:53):
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Wesley Lyon: Thomas is sitting right there. Hopefully, we get to take it and see a nice little tour of Epstein Island. (18:56):
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Wesley Lyon: From the outside, though, not the inside. We just want to take a look at it. (19:02):
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Wesley Lyon: But that's right there. And then otherwise, it's a great place, (19:06):
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Wesley Lyon: great little restaurants there. And weather's beautiful. (19:10):
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Wesley Lyon: It's in January. January you're not going to want to miss out so make sure get (19:12):
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Wesley Lyon: in there sign up today otherwise we will see you next time. (19:16):
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