EPISODE 29: Girl in the Box

What drives a seemingly normal couple to kidnap, torture, and enslave a young woman for seven years? The story of Colleen Stan—known as "The Girl in the Box"—takes us into the darkest corners of psychological manipulation and human endurance.

In 1977, twenty-year-old Colleen Stan made a fateful decision to hitchhike from Oregon to California. When a young couple with a baby offered her a ride, all the safety signals seemed positive. That moment of trust led to seven years of captivity at the hands of Cameron and Janice Hooker. Cameron, a mill worker with dangerous fantasies, had already groomed his teenage wife into participating in his violent BDSM activities. But he wanted more—a sex slave entirely under his control.

The psychological prison Cameron constructed was more effective than any physical restraint. He invented an elaborate fiction about "The Company," a supposed underground organization that trafficked women as slaves, convincing Colleen that if she escaped, not only would she be recaptured, but her family would be murdered. This fear kept her captive even when she was eventually allowed limited freedom—working as a maid, caring for the Hookers' children, and even holding a job outside their home.

What makes this case particularly disturbing is how Cameron systematically broke down Colleen's identity—forcing her to sign a "slavery contract," renaming her "Kay," keeping her in a coffin-like box under their waterbed, and subjecting her to unimaginable tortures. Yet despite these horrors, she developed complex emotional attachments to her captors, demonstrating one of the most profound cases of Stockholm syndrome ever documented.

The breakthrough came in 1984 when Janice finally revealed to Colleen that "The Company" was entirely fictional—a revelation that led to freedom, justice, and the shocking discovery of another murder victim. Cameron Hooker received 104 consecutive years in prison, while both Colleen and Janice worked to rebuild their shattered lives.

Follow us on social media for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and more true crime stories that expose the darkest corners of human behavior. Subscribe now to make sure you never miss an episode of these extraordinary real-life nightmares.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, jesse.

Speaker 3 (00:01):
Hello Lindsey, how was that?
And Cindy hey Cindy, we gotanother guest in the house.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yes, this is my bestest friend from well, I have
three best friends.
This is my 19 year best friend.
We met at my still place ofwork, 19 years ago.
Uh, we bonded because, um, sowe were trying to get some
silverware to roll and, uh, allthe other bitches were being

(00:33):
stingy about it were youlistening to limp biscuit while
you were rolling, rolling?
Might have been, I don't know.
It was probably more likefucking paul wall's grills in
the background.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Let me see your grill .
So the manager that was on thatday was like well, hey, if
y'all go help out in the dishpit for like 20 minutes, I'll
excuse you from Civilware andgive you a piece of Coca-Cola
cake.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
So y'all were rocking in the pit.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, we were rocking it, we put on the plastic
aprons and we were both like, ohmy God, we're so gross, we got
to go home and boil ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
And yeah, and then we've literally been best
friends ever since I used to dodish for food and, oh man, dish
was just nuts and I would slingshit, I would go wide open.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
We were.
We were soaked, I was moshingin the dish pit.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
It was definitely gross.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
It was so gross.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
But it was well worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, we got that chocolate cake at the end, man.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
And we didn't have to roll silverware, exactly, and a
whole friendship.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
So y'all were listening to Limp Bizkit, y'all
were keep rolling, rolling,rolling, yeah, and then you did
it all for the cookie.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
We did we did.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
We did the cake cookie.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'll say, oh for the cake.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's all in biscuit references to me.
I mean, that's just where I'mgoing here, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
But we went through many walks of life Together yes,
marriages, divorces.
We lived together with six kids.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
That was an adventure Y'all have done.
Seen a many of me come and go,not a many?

Speaker 4 (01:59):
No, not many, just a couple.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Just a couple.
Yeah, y'all have seen theshittiest parts of the dudes
come in and out.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah definitely, absolutely Talk to each other
through it.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
And you helped each other out.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
That's great, and raised our kids together.
Basically yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
There's some shittiness that I own up to
myself, but I'm glad you guysare still together.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
We all go through shit, yeah, we all go through
shit yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Cause you know they, some women, be doing some
conniving too.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, we literally did cases about it.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
There's going to be one in here For sure.
Women be doing the work.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yes, so are you.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
She doesn't like it when I say that Wrong women be
doing the work.
I know yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Real women be doing the real work.
And and then there's otherwomen.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well, I'm glad you're here, Cindy.
Yes, we talked about you acouple of pods ago and we were
like we want to get Cindy overhere.
We had to have a Cindy day,Didn't?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I say that Yep, and here.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I am there she be and here she is.
Yay, I'm so excited, like I'mjust like she's here and I'm
happy about it.
That I'm just like she's hereand I'm happy about it, that's
great.
And I got buttons I can push,but anyhow.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
So do you know what we're going to be drinking about
today?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
No, I was going to ask you what are you drinking,
Jessie?
You're off kilter there, liz, Iam.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
My bestie's here, man , I know, and I got another one
on the way, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
You are.
We're having a slumber partytonight.
Yeah, I forgot my PJs.
Me too, I'm going to have towear y'all's.
Yeah, we'll all be wearing them.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
You know I got some nighties you want to wear.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I do Yep, I want to wear muumuu's.
I'm old enough now.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
I do own muumuu's I saw a TikTok today.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It was a girl's drink night.
They had muum, I had moo-moosand margaritas.
I'm down.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
I was like bitch.
I don't even got to go buy anoutfit, I already own it, hell
yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Same.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
I know I won't be invited, but you know, hey, it's
all good as long as you wear amoo-moo, it's cool.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
No, I'm not invited.
I'm not part of that.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Moo-moo and a margarita bartender.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
So I'm drinking saint augustine florida straight
bourbon.
It's the only bonded bourbon inflorida and it is amazing, I'm
not sponsored.
Saint augustine distillerysponsor us yeah, and so is how
patters, because I love howpatterns.
Yeah, but saint augustine isstill when how patterns gets
their bourbon.
I swear to god I'm probablygonna love it.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
I swear to god, most definitely local yeah, yeah,
they got liquor now.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, how patterns.
Yeah, it's awesome, it's reallycool, it's really really good.
But, uh, this is my favoritebourbon, though, in the whole
wide world, and it's on therocks.
And I've tried some whistle pigthat lindsey bought me.
That was like 200 a bottle andI don't compare.
Well, this is, this isphenomenal.
Phenomenal.

(04:47):
So like, yeah, that's what I'mdrinking and what are you
drinking over there, lindsay?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
So I made a concoction with some of that
pineapple rum that you boughtlast week with Pineapple Vista
Bay.
So I got a rattle cup today.
You didn't rattle a cup, man, Igot the place that I work at
cup.
That I got at a Christmas party.
You got it down.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
One platform, one and one quota down.
Yes, yes.
And Miss Cindy, what are youdrinking over there?
Tell us, tell us.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
Plain old boring pink lemonade.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Hey, pink lemonade is the shit.
Is it country time?

Speaker 4 (05:22):
No, it's the minute made out of the can.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
I was going to say is it great value?
Because that's the tits too.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Great value out of a soda pop.
Can, okay, hell yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
As long as you're drinking and you're enjoying her
horrific ass story and I'm surethat you're going to dump
something on us real bad, but goahead with your other little
bit here.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Oh yeah, so today we're drinking about colleen
stan.
Yeah, what about the?

Speaker 3 (05:52):
old thing.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I want to do the old thing thing oh yeah, well, uh,
did you want to cue the introsong?
Not yet, okay, how?
What made you feel old?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
this week.
I've been wearing glasses sincethird grade and now I wear
contacts and that makes me feela little bit younger, but at the
same time, now the small printis making me feel old too
squinty the fine print I can'tdo.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know what I do I blow, I take a picture of it
with my phone and blow it up,really.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
So you're there too.
I'm there too, really.
Yeah, oh, we're old and I thinkI'm the oldest here?

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yep, yeah, I think I am.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
A couple years.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
And I have to have glasses for 44 or 45?
I'll be 45 this year.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Okay, oh, real blue rasher on a 45.
Everybody loves a bosom for apillow, everybody loves a bosom
Real rasher on a 45.
Yeah, that's what made me feelall dough.
I can't see shit.
I have contacts Like up close.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
I have contacts and software glasses on the computer
, oh so.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I'm.
I think it's the computers thatgot us, because we do a lot of
computer work.
Between you and I, we're like Isit on the computer all day,
all day, so all the fine print'sgoing away, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, I mean I have to look at a tablet a lot at
work and then I look at my phoneand now a tablet at home a lot
typing up this shit for thesecases, but um, what's yours Huh?
What's your make you feel old.
So it's my left knee again thisweek.
It's my left knee.
It's my left knee, my left kneehates me.
My name's Lindsey and I have abad left knee Well for years.
I mean, both of you guys knowthat I was in a terrible abusive

(07:29):
relationship years ago and myright knee was injured in that
relationship and it doesn't hurtme at all now, but my left knee
that was perfectly fine hurtsall the time.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Well, I'm not going to be an asshole and mule kick
you in the other knee.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Please don't.
Maybe it'll correct it.
It's not a risk.
I'm not going to be an assholeand mule kick you in the other
knee.
Please don't.
Maybe it'll correct it.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's not a risk I'm willing to take.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
The workouts that I was doing this week required a
lot of lunges and squats and myleft knee like I was trying to
dance around the house and dothe Angus Young thing with Silas
earlier.
You know that takes some damnskill.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
dude Angus is like 70 .
And he's rocking on tour rightnow and doing that shit every
night.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I did like two of the Angus Young whatever you want
to call it, gallops, that's aduck walk, duck walks.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, okay, thank you , chuck Berry, for bringing that
to Angus Young.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I was doing, I did like two across the kitchen.
I'm like, all right, I'm oldand Silas is like.
Angus Young is old, he's olderthan you, and I'm like, well,
he's been doing it his wholelife.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
He's almost as old as us put together, jesus.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
And he's a little, teeny, tiny man.
He's littler than me.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
He is I'm going to put it on Cindy.
Now it's your turn.
What made you feel old thisweek, miss cindy, recovering
from a hysterectomy, oh okay.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Oh, she wins.
You do you do, because I'llnever get one of those?
Yeah, I'm a uterine, I wouldlike to have one club.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
I would like to have one, but at the same time I'm
like maybe I don't, I don't knowso so you just got actually,
hopefully it's worth it because,like I'll be, and how you're
about.
A month post-op, three weeks,three weeks, okay.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Is that when you get kicked out of the Mormon
religion?
Might be yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
I don't.
I was never in it so I don'tcouldn't tell you.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
That's your only way out is like I think that is a, I
think that's how you get out ofthe Mormon religion.
You just get a hysterectomy.
Yeah, you're like out.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
You can't.
You know what, If we were inthe handmaid's tale shit, she
would have to go to the colony.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
She's gone to the colony.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Or be a.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Martha.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh yeah, you can be Jezebel, yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
You wouldn't get pregnant.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I mean, I couldn't either, because my tubes are
tied.
So we would either be Jezebels,Marthas or Colony bitches, yep.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Y'all some Aunt Lydia's, I can tell it from here
, we would be.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Marthas, we would be.
You see the look on Lindsay'sface.
We'd be Marthas.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, no, did you see my face?
I'm like I'm giving you AuntLydia's.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Aunt Lydia's trying.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
She keeps giving me remorse she has brought me up
before and let me down, same asSerena Joy.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
All three of us love Handmaid's Tale so much.
It is really our jive for real.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Literally just messaged Lindsay last week and
was like why are they onlyposting one a week?
This is not fair, it's not.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Cliffhangers, every fucking move.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
And me and Jesse have rewatched it three times.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
in anticipation of this season, we had a party one
time and it didn't even happenfor like another year.
Lindsay, I know I got a shirtfor that.
I did too.
It's in my drawer right now.
We get dressed up forHandmaid's Tale over here.
We love it so much.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Love you, Elizabeth Moss.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yes, tell us about the story that you're fixing to
dump on us.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
All right.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
So off, yes, tell us about the story that you're
fixing to dump.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
All right, so today we are going to be talking about
colleen stan, which is alsoknown as the girl in the box.
Yeah what?

Speaker 1 (10:58):
yep, you're not going to do this kind of shit now.
Oh, I am like what kind of box?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
oh, I'm gonna tell you we don't get to know.
See, that's, that's where Ijust don't even ask.
But at the same time it's likeI don't know about this bullshit
right here, so I'm gonna letyou guys fly with it.
So here we go and I want to sayhappy friday yeah, what a box

(11:20):
girl in the box.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh god, this isn't fair it's not you know sorry,
while we're doing sound check.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
We were just so, it's not.
I'm so sorry.
You know, while we were doingsoundcheck, we were just so hung
on Righteous Gemstone.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
And we went back to an old 70s song and we've been
singing it and I did it likethree times a day and she
actually sent it to me.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Lindsay sent it to me and I was like that's the song
I've been singing all day.
Well, the Righteous Gemstone.
It's a Danny McBride productionand he's a genius and all the
music in that show is fuckingamazing.
And he featured the who butit's so.
Appalachia, to me that's D-N-Athat episode was deep
Appalachian bullshit right therein California.
Cindy has no idea what we'retalking about, but she's gonna

(12:22):
watch it.
She's gotta watch it now.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
No, I haven't watched it, yet it's so funny we're
going

Speaker 1 (12:26):
to get you hooked.
If you are new here.
What we do is we talk abouttrue crime and we drink and we
plug a band at the end thatwe're digging and we think that
you should listen to as well.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Sometimes I don't drink enough because the stories
are so bad.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
I don't know you haven't seen me super slushed
yet.
Through Ken and Barbie.
You were just like the secondpart.
You were I puddled.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I was quiet, he was just like this.
I was the girl in the box forKen and Barbie.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
You don't want to say that.
I promise.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
All right.
So in this case we're going togo back to the 70s, where people
were hitchhiking to get placeto place and, yes, this was
dangerous, but so many weredoing it and a lot of serial
killers were using this ploy toget their victims.
But we're not going to talkabout a serial killer today, but

(13:21):
it's a doozy case nonetheless.
The list.
So colleen martin stan was borndecember 31st, new year's eve
wow, 1956, in eugene.
Oregon pick up steve.
Is it oregon or oregon oregon?

Speaker 3 (13:33):
man, it's just oregon , oregon trail growing up and I
said oregon back then you saidoregon, it's oregon.
Were you folding paper doingOregoni what?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
the hell.
So anyway.
So Oregon.
She was born in Eugene, Oregon,to Jack and Evelyn Martin, and
she had two younger sisters andthey grew up in Riverside
California.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Colleen was very intelligent and a poet, but she
didn't really do that well inschool.
She didn't fit in that box thatour educational system wants
everybody to fit in, you know,because it doesn't always work
out.
I myself didn't fit in.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
I didn't either.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
And, yeah, none of my children did either.
So she quit school at 16 andmarried her boyfriend very young
, and that marriage only lastedabout a year and she moved back
home young and that marriageonly lasted about a year and she
moved back home.
She met and befriended a couplein Oregon who had a kid and
became very close with thisfamily and moved in with them.
On May 19th 1977, she told thecouple, bob and I don't know if

(14:38):
it was Alice or Allison, I'veheard both so I'm going to go by
Alice she told Bob and Alicethat she wanted to go visit
California to surprise herfriend, that she wanted to In
California.
Okay, she wanted to visit herfriend Linda for her birthday

(15:00):
and surprise her.
Linda had no idea she was coming, so Bob and Allison would drive
her part of the way there andthen she would hitchhike the
remainder of the trip.
She felt that she was a goodjudge upon who she would accept
rides from.
She'd done this several timesbefore.
So they set out on a Thursdayand she planned to be back by

(15:21):
Saturday.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
So she's hitching down to California.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, bob and Allison are going to take her part of
the way there.
I think it was, like I want tosay, a six-hour drive to where
she was going.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
From Oregon to California.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
From Oregon, from, yeah, okay, she was going to, I
want to say Westwood, I'll getthere in a minute.
So she planned to be back onSaturday, but she did not return
on Saturday.
So Allison thought that maybeshe extended her trip longer and
after a few days she decided tocall Colleen's mother.
But Colleen's mother had notseen nor heard from her.

(15:54):
So Allison calls the police totrack down the friend that she
was supposed to be visiting, andLinda had not heard from her
either.
So where the fuck was ColleenOn that Thursday when she set
out on her journey, after Boband Allison had dropped her off,
she would take two additionalrides and was about a hundred
miles away from Westwood yeah,westwood, california, which is

(16:15):
where she was, where herdestination was.
So one guy in a Porsche, heonly wait a minute.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Didn't they have the Westwood TV show that we were
watching?
Westworld, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, westworld.
Did y'all watch any of that?
You want our audience to answerback?

Speaker 3 (16:32):
I mean, I'm talking about the other thing.
I'm talking with Lindsay andCindy.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
I think so.
That's where it's like the oldthey were supposed to play the
robots, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
But, it was like a fake western city.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, and the robots?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
they started doing weird, that was really cool.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
They started to get intelligent and fight back.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
I've seen some of the new AI robots and stuff they're
doing now.
Oh my God, they almost likehave that intelligence now.
Goodness gracious.
Anyhow, keep on cracking.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So the Thursday that Colleen set out on her journey
after Bob and Allison haddropped her off, she would take
two additional rides and wasabout 100 miles away from her
destination, and one ride wasfrom a guy in a Porsche and he
only took her about 17 miles,and the other one was two truck
drivers, of which one wouldactually try to make out with

(17:21):
her, but she pushed him off andhe actually later apologized.
She turned down a few morerides because they didn't pass
the vibe check and then a youngcouple with a baby pulled up and
offered her a ride.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Oh, how sweet.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
So Colleen was 20 at the time and the couple seemed
about the same age and they hada baby.
So you know.
All the green flags.
The green flags were up at thetime.
Yeah, why not?
So she accepted this ride.
They made small talk andColleen told them that she was
surprising her friend for herbirthday.
And the man that was drivingthe car, he was like she doesn't

(17:59):
know, you're coming, andColleen was like no.
So then Colleen started to geta little worried because this
guy started asking her more andmore, more personal questions
and kept looking at her throughthe rear view mirror.
But she tried to calm herselfdown.
So, even though she got thatweird feeling, she pushed it out
of her mind because she wasalmost there.

(18:21):
She was almost there.
They stopped at a gas stationand she actually thought about
jumping out the window at thegas station.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
That much of a vibe drop that much of a vibe check
and abandoning the couplecompletely.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
But she was like you know I'm going to just keep
pushing on through it.
Do not ignore your gut feelings.
People Don't do it yeah, and inthat situation you know, like
you always say, it was a man, awoman and a baby so, and this is
the 70s, the 70s, and youalways say that there was a lot
of fucked up shit happening inthe 70s.

(18:56):
Like I used to want to live inthe 70s and still I started
listening to true crime.
I no longer I no longer everwant.
I don't want nothing to do withthe 70s except the music part.
That's it.
The music of the 70s fuckingamazing, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
But everything else the cults, the serial killers,
the sadistic shit that was goingon in the 70s is wild they were
really a lot of our cases inthe future will be in the 70s
because like the world waschanging, you know and there
were so many people yeah, andthere were so many people so
used to being so charismatic,you know, and they would jump on

(19:34):
whatever they felt.
It was all a lot of emotion andit led them astray a lot of
ways so much astray yeah jimjones, that'll be coming up soon
.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Don't drink that Kool-Aid, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I'm going to drink this bourbon Can.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I do that.
Yes, I'm going to go ahead andtake a sip of my beer, because I
think you're fixing to dropshit a little bit.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, it's going to happen quick in this one, Sorry
guys Goodness gracious.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
So the driver the man of the couple asked her if she
might have taken a quick detourto check out an ice cave that
was in the area, and Colleen,not thinking she was in any
position to say no she agreed,so we went to an ice cave one
time.
We went to a couple of them.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
The Sure Enough Ice Cave we went to in New Mexico.
Remember that one.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Oh yeah, so I had to use their little outhouse toilet
when you go to pay your entryto go do the tour.
It was an inactive volcano,right?

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, the Bernadetta, Bernadetta.
So, like out of the volcano,the lava flows made the tubes
and all, and the tubes get socold all year round that the
water was frozen underneaththere.
That was really cold.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Well, when I went to use the bathroom, the air that
came up.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Was cold.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
So I mean like I don't think I've ever felt
anything that cold in my life Onthe hoo-ha.
Yeah, it was like sitting onice.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Completely to use the bathroom.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
People pay a lot of money for that stuff To go have
their whole hoo-ha regenerate it.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
I know Maybe I need to do that more often.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
We're going back because I need to go and drop
the old teabag over there on thecold air.
I'll be sitting there singingPhil Collins the whole time.
Y'all okay?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
So after a while of driving on the main highway, the
man stops.
He gets in the back seat withColleen, pulls a knife on her
and tells her to put her handsin the air.
Then he handcuffs, gags andblindfolds her and there was
this wooden box that had beensitting in the car with her the
whole time and she thoughtnothing of it.
And he puts this box on herhead.

(21:44):
What Huh?
It was padded on the inside soshe could not hear, and then
they made her lay down.
So you would think that thebaby's in the back seat.
But no, the woman of the couple.
I'm about to introduce themhere in a second.
She was holding the baby in herlap in the front seat, because
it was the 70s and you know,safety wasn't a thing.
So real quick, uh, my otherbestie, jojo, showed up.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Say hey, hey, yes she's gonna join us for the rest
of this is a slumber party, soI got my two besties here, yeah,
and we're all breaking outmoomoos later and I'm gonna
serve drinks and we're gonnawatch mean girls.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yes, yes absolutely it listen.
In a perfect world that wouldbe happening tonight, but
unfortunately jojo has to be atwork before the crack of dawn,
and so do you I do have to worktomorrow yes so that's okay.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Saint augustine's got me over here with the bourbon,
they got me jojo, what are youdrinking?

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I am drinking watermelon neutral.
Hell yes, she's a seltzer girllike me.
Hell yeah, yes, all right.
So who were these people?
So the man was 23-year-oldCameron Hooker, what?
Yes their last name was Hooker,all right, and the girl was his
wife, 19-year-old Janice Hooker.

(23:02):
Janice and Cameron had met whenshe was 15 and he was 19.
And she wasn't what you wouldcall a looker.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
She wasn't a looker hooker.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, she had very low self-esteem, so perfect for
being groomed by an older malewho would love bomb her and make
her feel special.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
So Cameron just puts a box over her head.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Well, jan, yeah, janice is the wife Colleen.
Colleen is our victim.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
So here comes the story of him teaching her these
ways and her being okay.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
We're wrapping up our couples series, so this is.
This is going to be the lastpart of our couple series for a
while, cause there's many moreto come in the future, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
But we're going to move on to something else after
this one.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, because I want something.
I mean this is going to benasty.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I know it.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Goodness Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
But it's only a one-parter, so at least I can
tie it up in a bow for you inone part.
I don't know if you want tocall it a bow, but no, a hook or
not.
A hook or not.
Wow.
So cameron, he was a millworker when they had met, and
janice, she was still in schoolbecause she was only 15.

(24:18):
Janice was the youngest of fourkids and didn't get a lot of
attention at home and she alsohad epilepsy, and her father, he
he called her epilepsy, uh,possession by demons.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Isn't that so old school Actually?
Just to have that mentality andthought you know, so 70s.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, that's so typical for Batman Very, very
70s.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, everybody was just of the devil.
It's the demon inside Devil.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
They made a lot of cool movies back then though.
Yeah, they did they had somecrazy ass beliefs like this shit
was real.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Fuck like Carrie the Exorcist.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, that's where I was at.
Those are two of my favoritefucking movies, texas.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Chainsaw.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Massacre yeah, that's our son's favorite.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
He was literally dressed up as Leatherface this
morning, and then he changed toAngus Young.
That's like a daily thing forSilas, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
He lives that life Like he is.
He is the most animated andfrustrating human being.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, you love the creativity I love it and that,
but at the same time, like it'slike all right, Like earlier
today he made me record himwhile he was doing his Angus
Young thing in three differentoutfits I saw yours your yes, I
was like yeah he's like allright, wait, wait, wait, let me
go change again, and then hecomes back out all right now

(25:36):
record me oh, wait, wait, wait,I forgot to put on my new chucks
.
Record me again.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yes, I came home and he has his whole ass fort built
and I want to get in there withhim, but he smells like feet and
fart so I'm like I'm notgetting there.
Bro, he's a young boy, he did,he's like I and fart, so I'm
like I'm not getting that bro,he's a young boy, he did.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
He's like I only farted 30 times in there.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
He invited me like 30 times.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yes, come on, dad, come in the fort.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Here's another one.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
All right.
So Cameron, he came from afamily that moved around a lot.
He had a younger brother namedDexter.
A Dexter Hooker I'm going towrap him up in cellophane,
cellophane.
Yeah, and they didn't have alot of friends because they
never stayed in one place forvery long.

(26:24):
Other than that, there's noreports of real abuse in his
home, so usually there is.
Usually I give you thisbackstory of this horrific
childhood With Cameron Hooker.
There's not one, so I don't getto go to the typical thing that
we've been going through.
Wow, there's no salad, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, so the family would finally settle in Red
Bluff, california, when Cameronwas 16, and this is where they
would remain In California.
Left california when cameronwas 16, and this is where they
would remain in california.
We're stuck on the righteousjim songs, songs.
Yeah, so as he started toexplore his sexual preferences,

(27:04):
he found out that he liked thebdsm oh yes, so there's where it
comes into play.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
He likes to play too much, the wrong way.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Right, and I don't want to put a bag stigma on this
Cause.
There's a lot of people whoenjoy this and as long as
everyone involved.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
it's consenting as long as it's safe.
Yeah, exactly, and.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
I heard the greatest quote this week.
I don't want to put a yuck onanyone's yum, but you have to
have.
It's got to be enjoyed by bothparties.
It's got to be enjoyed byeverybody involved.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It's yum all around.
I don't want to put a yuck onanyone's yum.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yes, I love that.
I was like that's perfect yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I feel like I'm in a hen house here.
This is wild you areno-transcript, and once you
brought that out, there's thewhole salad, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
And these guys did not want consent and they like
inflicting pain on unwillingparticipants, and that's where
there's a difference.
So when cameron would expresshis desire for bondage to janice
, she says she's not that intoit, for fuck's sake.
She was only 15 when they gotmarried.
She didn't know what the hellwas going on.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
She's like I'm sorry, what yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:28):
at 15, I wasn't long from playing with dolls, like I
mean.
But he would continue to bringit up and groom her into it and
say that if she didn't like it,it's not going to work out.
And Janice didn't want to losehim, so she let him begin
carrying out his fantasies.
Cameron would take her into thewoods and hang her on trees by

(28:50):
her wrist what, yeah, withhomemade handcuffs, take
pictures of this and he wouldwhip her.
And then he would even dunk herunderwater, almost to the point
of drowning.
Wow, yeah, that's crazy.
That's the first I've heard ofthat so far.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Like drowning, like how does I mean honestly, how
does that get you off the power?
I mean, you're just.
You know you got this younailed it.
Yeah, that's probably, it's allabout the power, yeah, you got
it over I can take your life atany moment, and I'm gonna go to
it yeah, I'm gonna barf.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Well, when the torture would be over, he would
soothe her and pet her and beall loving.
You know your typical bullshitthat an abuser does.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, that's the bring down after he got his
rocks off, right.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
The false security.
Yeah, they end up gettingmarried and Janice starts to
hate the bondage and the paininflicting sex and she, she
really wanted a baby.
I mean that, really wanted ababy.
And I mean that's young, that'swhat I'm saying, Like people in
the seventies at like 15 and 16, they were already 30.
It's insane to me.

(30:00):
So Cameron decides to make abargain.
He says I'll give you a baby Ifyou let me have a sex slave.
He had been obsessed with theseunderground porno magazines
that talked about this type ofthing and he really wanted to
have a sex slave for himself.
And Janice agrees you heffed onhigh.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Just bringing down all the demons, all the demons.
That is horrible, though, but Ithink you know that probably
wasn't Hugh Hefner.
No Playboys, no, that wasHustler.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
No, these were like a whole different.
This was an underground shitthat you could not.
This was not Playboy andHustler status.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
This was they had underground back in the 70s.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
Way underground.
Hard black web Right.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
That wasn't Larry Flint, exactly that had nothing
to do with none of that.
That was not Larry Flint, norHugh Hef had anything to do with
this.
Now, he did have all that inhis collection.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
But, that wasn't good enough.
That wasn't good enough for hisass.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
A lot of them were French type.
It was next level and I'll getmore into it here in a minute
the whole S&M type shit, right.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
The whole dirt, dirt Goodness.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
But she did not want him to have penetrative sex with
the slave.
He could do whatever else hewanted, but he had to swear that
he was not going to havepenetrative sex with her.
He could whip her, do all thebonded shit, whatever.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
No, burglary.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Right, so they start the prowl oh buggery.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
That's what it is, buggery yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
So they start Well, that's penetrative.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, you can't do.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
no, buggery, she did not want any of that.
She said that he could whip herdo the whole anything, all the
other BDSM type things, withoutthe sex, which is just like
another human being that youjust beat the shit out of.
Right, exactly so.
They start the prowl whileJanice first is pregnant, and

(32:00):
then they keep going on laterafter she has the baby.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And then they find Colleen, and I don't even see a
spot where she could have gotout other than trying to win him
over.
You know, obviously she wasinfatuated with him.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
It's all she knew, like, I mean there was no spot
where she could be.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Like you know, I'm going to overcome this and get
the hell out.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Well, at that young and that being her first love.
She didn't know any better.
Yeah, and in the 70s and herdad Nobody talked about shit.
Her dad thought better yeah,and in the 70s, and her dad
nobody talks about demon.
Right in the 70s she was thewomen.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Women barely even knew how to go through their
menstrual cycle in the 70s, youknow I'm saying whether, long
like you know, a woman didn'tsit down and say this is what
dudes do.
This is your life, this is whatyou don't let happen and run
from.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
At the same time, there were people who would say
you're married, now you gotta dowhatever the hell he wants to.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
You better shut up and get your ass back in the
kitchen.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
That basically I mean that's so horrible.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
That's when women were just starting to feel
empowered and come out aboutthings Exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
So it's a whole other I mean women were fighting for
their rights to vote and workand shit like that, but they
weren't.
This part of it was not right,I mean I completely.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'm just elaborating on what I completely already
understand.
But the mentality was justhorrible by the parents to just
not teach your kids common asshuman thing for for them to be
around something pleasant inlife.
You know well their parentswere probably raised up.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
That oppressed Exactly.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
You just went along.
I'm sure they had even worselives than what they taught
their children 50s 60s, 40s, 50s, 60s.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
I'm glad we have broken that generational curse
in this era.
I don't think it'll ever comeback either.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I think that women period, and I'm proud of that
too, because that was justhorrible, you know, Cause I mean
, I've always looked ateverybody as equals, no matter
who you are, what color,whatever, and just to have that
equal playing field, for thatreciprocating everything you
know it's, it's always teamwork,and it's just that's just so
horrible that they let the womenjust just exist and go along

(34:09):
with it?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, except whatever they they can, whatever came
along with the husband.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
I probably think about the mid 80s.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
It was more like that , you know I want to say
actually the mid 90s.
Yeah, it may have been I mean,I mean honestly, when I'll give
it a hard.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
A hard 89.
We'll give it a hard.
What's that when I?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
left my ex-husband the first time, unfortunately.
I gave him a few chances.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
My grandmother in this was in early 2000s even was
like well, you know like well,you're taking that southern
perspective I'm talking aboutlike um, nationally, as, uh,
united states, you know, like anational group of of and she
still had.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
I mean, I mean, she was what was, what was the, what
was the twenties?

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Horrible for women, Well, I mean like she was born
in that era, so that was preboomers.
So she had like hadn't beenlong wearing pants.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, right, yeah, she had that really old school
way of thinking and her husbandunfortunately treated her really
terribly and they just wentalong with it and you couldn't
do anything because you'd haveto hide bruises from then on.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
I guess that's so fucking horrible it is.
I'm adding horrible on thehorrible.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
And I'm going to shut up now because I'll just keep
adding more.
Yeah, because I've got likethree pages to get through.
I'm sorry, you're the rest ofthe story.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, because there's four of us here and I'm over
here, but I get stuck onthinking about how just horrific
it really was, you know, andwhat women already had to go
through to begin with.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
That's really sad, that on top.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Of it is sad.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Now he had already prepared the box and the
basement for torture.
I mean, he was ready.
So they get Colleen home afterfirst stopping for dinner, and
Cameron takes Colleen down tothe basement and hangs her from
the ceiling by her wrist, stripsher naked and begins to whip

(36:05):
her and sexually assault her.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Not penetrative but everything else Roping, touching
, doing that nastiness, Son of abitch.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
So she ends up blacking out from pain, from the
whipping and the torture.
This is the first night, okay,and when she wakes up or comes
to, cameron and Janice arehaving sex underneath her.
Oh my God, as she's danglingfrom the fucking ceiling.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Lindsay, yeah, you ain't allowed to talk like that.
We got company.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
They are not new to true crime at all.
I promise you no.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Women are so fucking hard on this stuff, like it
puddles me so much, and y'allwere just like, oh, this is
rough, but I ain't nothing, Iain't fucking heard.
I ain't never heard no shitlike this Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
So when they finish, cameron takes Colleen down from
the ceiling and puts her inanother box for her body, like a
coffin.
It down from the ceiling andputs her in another box for her
body, like a coffin.
It has shackles for her handsand her feet, places the head
box back on as well and she begsand pleads like I can't breathe
.
So he puts something on herchest to make it even harder to

(37:17):
breathe.
Yeah, and he puts a bedpan inthere so she can use the
bathroom.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
In the box?
I wouldn't.
I would have done that shit allmyself.
I'd have been like I'm going tobe the nastiest play tool you
ever had, dude.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I don't think he cared.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
We'll get into it Honestly, though Clearly yeah,
he didn't care, he wouldn't havegave a damn he also puts a
device in between her legs.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
That was meant to continuously shock her, but
fortunately for colleen it wasdefective.
The abuse and capture ofcolleen would continue for the
next seven years I am going toshe survived seven years, that's
, oh, my gosh'm going to grabanother bottle.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Seven of them, lindsay.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
So most days she would be kept in the box until
sometime after 8 pm.
Then Cam Wynn would let her out, let her eat just a little bit,
drink a glass of water and usethe actual toilet instead of her
bedpan, and it would be a fewmonths before she was able to
get a bath.
A few months, whoa, after she'spissing and shitting in a

(38:26):
bedpan in this coffin basically,and he's doing God knows what
to her this whole time.
Yeah, I'm about to explain allof that.
She would lose 22 pounds withinher first month.
Yeah, and there was one timeand I don't know if you guys
have experienced this but if yougo through long periods without

(38:47):
eating, like when you're in abreakup or a stressful situation
, and you don't eat a lot,sometimes your bowels will just
turn loose.
Well, she was hanging from theceiling and she felt that
sensation coming on and she wasgagged.
But she started making a lot ofnoise to try to get Cameron's

(39:07):
attention and, instead of justletting her go to the bathroom,
he whipped her intounconsciousness.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Did it turn loose then?
Probably Hopefully they wereunderneath her.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
It had to have.
I mean it has to Right Right.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
How could it not?
Underneath, it had to have.
I mean, it has to right right,how could it not?
And there was a torture rackthat cameron had also built and
he would strap her to it whilehe would build this motherfucker
, he would, he would build moreshit, so she just had to lay
there naked while he wasbuilding shit in this basement,
okay, and then he would abuseher when he felt like it, so

(39:43):
excited the whole time so happy,just to be building shit there.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
You had to watch him build, yeah yeah, and he's over
here all grinning fucking.
I'm gonna do my shit and I'mgonna fuck you up, right oh man
that's where my mind goes tooI'm like, I'm like in my fucking
living room there's this dudeand I'm tied up over here it was
actually more in his fuckingwhitey tighties of like right

(40:09):
here, yeah, but that all thiswas going on that's

Speaker 2 (40:14):
what gets me?

Speaker 4 (40:14):
him do this will mess with you more than anything.
You have to get inside your ownmind you.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
You know, who knows what she's already endured,
which I'm sure you're going tobe into.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, I'm about it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, proceed.
So, he built a work room justunder the stairs and finally
gave her a nightgown to wear,and her first project in the
work room was to shell walnuts.
And then he would have hercrochet and macrame things and
he and Janice would go sell thisshit at a flea market.

(40:48):
Wow, like all her items thatshe made yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Puts a whole other meaning to child labor laws.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Right.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Seriously.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And when she wasn't working, she was being tortured,
sexually abused.
He would stretch her, burn herall, while she was being gagged
and blindfolded.
Oh, man Stretching her.
That's like medieval shit yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Well, I mean, it's beyond that.
Eventually, that comes to anend within like a couple of days
, a week at the most.
This is years.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, so we're going to go through the whole timeline
.
So about eight months intoColleen's capture, cameron had
this idea that he had gottenfrom one of his underground
magazines and it was a slaverycontract.
He rents a typewriter and hasJanice type it up.
He goes down to the basement tohave Colleen sign it and this

(41:46):
contract would say that she isno longer Colleen, her name is
now Kay and she belonged to him.
She would call him sir ormaster and Janice would be ma'am
, that she would never cross herlegs, she would not wear
underwear and she had to kneelto ask any question and she had

(42:07):
to wear a collar and pretty muchanything else he wanted.
He tells her that she must signthis contract to keep her safe
from the company and tells herthat the company is an
underground organization that isbasically what we know as human
trafficking, that they tradefemales for lifelong slaves, and

(42:30):
that he had been brought up inthis company and his father and
brother were also members.
He told her that if she evertried to escape the company,
they would find her and if shetold her family, her family
would be killed.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I am sitting here looking around at the faces
right now Because there's threeof us now looking at Lindsay.
I'm just blown away I know I'mspeechless.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
We're horrified.
My jaw is on the floor rightnow.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Lindsay gets mad when I don't chime in.
No, no, no, I swear to God.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I want y'all yeah, because this is going to keep
going.
So Cameron tells her thatJanice is also his slave and
when she had tried to escape,she told the police and the
police were also a part of thecompany.
I mean basically I mean.
And end up torturing her beforeCameron saved her, but her knee
was permanently messed up and itjust so happened that Janice
wore a knee brace from adifferent issue.
So terrified, out of herfucking mind, colleen signs this

(43:28):
contract as Kay and Cameron andJanice sign it as Michael and
Janet Powers that's theiraliases.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Not hookers, but Powers.
So, they're hookers with power.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Hookers with power.
Well, Cameron's middle name wasMichael, so that's why he used
that, and Powers was of coursethe obvious Mike Powers.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah, we love Austin Powers.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
So he even made this guy is extra as fuck.
He did the whole contract instenciled letters and he made
her an ID card that was likelaminated and everything looks
like a fucking legally binding.
He made a seal and everythinglike he went above and beyond to
brainwash colleen cindy, we'regoing to get this notarized, or

(44:13):
what?
so I mean, look it all.
It all seemed very legit andvery terrifying to Colleen.
So Camward would also make herdo drills, per the contract, and
when he would say attention,she had a certain amount of time

(44:35):
to become completely naked andbe in whatever position he
wanted her to be in.
Yeah, wow, wow.
And the contract now, now thatshe signed the contract, this
would allow Colleen to become amaid and a babysitter for the
couple.
She would cook and clean forthem, watch the kids from time
to time, and she would beallowed to work in the garden as

(44:56):
well.
So I mean, of course this isbetter than sleeping in a box,
so she's all for it.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, you'd take that over that any day.
Yeah, I'm kind of being quiet.
I'm wanting to see if they'llchime in, because I don't really
, I'm speechless, I'm just sointo it, Like I'm just.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah Well.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Janice.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
I'm speechless yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
So, janice, she starts seriously doubting that
her husband is living up to hispart of the deal, which is no
penetrative sex with Colleen.
So she decided to test him.
She said go get Colleen andwe'll all have a threesome.
So he went and got Colleen,brought her to the couple's
bedroom, he starts kissing andtouching them both and then he

(45:45):
began intercourse with Collenfirst.
Uh-oh, this made janice sick asfuck, and colleen would
actually later on say that shecould hear janice like vomiting
while she was being raped.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
oh my gosh, yeah well , colleen, okay for everything
else, right, right, it was okayfor him to beat her and do
whatever he wanted with her andkeep her in a box.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
But sex, for the love of god?
Well, that was crossing theline what's crazy to me is that
she would actually believe thathe wouldn't penetrate right you
know you're doing all theseother horrific things.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
But see, that was the sacred thing that she had gave
him, y'all got to understand.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Janice is actually younger than Colleen at this
time.
She's like a year younger thanColleen.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Oh shit, I didn't even think of it that way.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
But I mean it makes sense.
Honestly, all she knew aboutbeing in a relationship was what
this guy, cameron, brought tothe table.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
That's it.
So she had gave, like I said,that sacredness to him and only
him.
It was supposed to be somethingspecial.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
Between the two of them.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
And how special fucking was it.
Yeah, goodness gracious.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Well, most of the time after the contract was
signed, she was able to stay inthe work room instead of the box
.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
And that's all she really had to hang on to was
what she gave him.
Like you know, the virginity,like her life and livelihood and
everything.
And I would have ran a longtime ago.
You know, I would have got outas soon as I could.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
But she didn't, she didn't know any better.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
She didn't know any better.
That was her whole life.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
He had groomed her for this life.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I see the whole picture, but God, what a fucking
shitty picture yeah heliterally groomed a child, and
not that he was much older, Imean, he was 19,.
And that's still.
That's fucking crazy for a19-year-old to be thinking this
way.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Right, but he was in his 20s at this time.
My thought process is just likeyes, that is a very special
thing to give somebody yourvirginity and all, but she
should have been told thatthat's what dudes want and
that's all they want anyhow.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Well, and what I forgot to put in my notes was
Cameron told Janice that hisprevious girlfriends agreed to
all this, so she felt like shehad to.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
She had to, exactly To keep him Right.
She had to.
She had to Exactly To keep himRight.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
So after you know, like I said, after she had
signed the contract she was ableto stay in the workroom instead
of the box.
But there was a time periodwhere no one came down to let
her out or feed her for aboutthree days and during these
three days she heard a lot ofnoise coming from upstairs.
Then all of a sudden, cameroncomes down, puts the head box

(48:25):
back on her and takes heroutside to the car and makes her
lay down in Janice's lap whilethey drive.
They were moving to a new home,a single wide, in a more
secluded neighborhood, becausethis place he was buying, like
you know and know, in theprevious house they were renting
and the landlords could drop inany time and just bust up his

(48:47):
whole ordeal he had going onDefinitely.
Well, in this house he had acustom built waterbed that sat
on top of a box with a smallentryway.
This was her new spot to bekept.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Under their bed.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Under their water bed .

Speaker 4 (49:06):
Yeah, my mom actually had one of those water beds
with the doors that would openmy parents had one too.
And it was storage.
That's where Christmas presentswere.
Oh my god, I think that's wheremy parents, like we weren't
going to know where they.
Well, cameron and.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Janice were storing a human.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
A human Christmas present?
Yes, right.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
For the rest of the year God.
Jeez, that's horrible.
So, colleen, she continues toabide by the contract and
Cameron lets her have more andmore freedoms.
So we're about three years intoher capture now.
Cameron and Janice have anotherchild.
They've got two girls.
They're both girls, and heconvinces Janice to have a home

(49:46):
birth on the waterbed thatColleen is underneath.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Locked in.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
So Cameron would allow Colleen to work in the
garden.
She's still doing chores in thehouse taking care of the kids,
because Janice had to go get ajob.
But this was a night job, socameron was still at home and he
uses this time after the kidsare asleep, of course to rape
and sodomize colleen oh, it'sfree range now he can do

(50:16):
whatever she.
Yes, because janice she'sworking at like a little um,
like a little ice cream place,like a Tasty Freeze type place
it wasn't called that, but itwas like that.
Yeah, so he even allows her togo jogging, but he's following
close behind in the car andshe's now allowed to sleep in
the bathroom instead of the box,but she's chained to the toilet

(50:39):
.
One time she was seen in thisposition by the older girl and
was beaten for not locking thedoor.
Yeah, Lindsay.
So you know how a single wife isset up and you know how the
back bathroom is usually at theother end, like the master
bathroom's, in that one bedroomon one end and then the other

(50:59):
bathroom's on the other end.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
And that's where his girls' rooms were, so they were
probably just going to go peeand because Colleen didn't lock
the door, she got beat.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Three of us are puddled over here at this moment
.
We just are in shock of thesheer horror.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Shock is not the word .
If you guys can see my face myjaw is little.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
I know they're all looking at me like jaw's just
dropped.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Y'all have both listened to us, but now just
being in this, I love it, thoughI feel like I'm telling a
terrifying I feel like a teachertelling the story in class.
We feel like we're underneathof a waterbed right now.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
Lindsay, Thank you Maybe not that bad, but yeah
pretty close.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
So now this part this blew my mind a little bit.
So Janice and Colleen wereactually permitted to go to a
bar, go out dancing one nightand have drinks, and they hung
out with two other guys.
Apparently, Cameron wasallowing Janice to see other
people.
This was, like I said, this wasthree years into the capture.
Janice wanted Cameron to be asjealous as she was about Colleen

(52:09):
, but he just he really didn'tcare, and in the audio book that
I listened to it's called thePerfect Victim.
Janice slept with this otherguy, but Colleen did not sleep
with her little dude that shegot paired off with because she
was terrified about the companyand that whole situation and
because cameron was constantlyplugging that in her ear.

(52:31):
He had now told her that phonelines were tapped, there were
surveillance cameras watchingand there were members of the
company that lived in their newneighborhood.
So she just she thought thateverybody was part of this shit
oh my gosh this poor girl

Speaker 4 (52:47):
the fear, the amount of the propaganda that was just
poured on you in the 70s the

Speaker 3 (52:51):
fear that she was living in.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, yeah, no hope at all.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
None, this is my life and I mean honestly.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Okay, so at 20 years old I had already had two
children, but I still would havebelieved that I would have
still if I had been kidnapped at20 years old.
I had already had two children,but I still would have believed
that I would have still if Ihad been kidnapped at 20 years
old.
Even going through most ofschool.
I made it to 11th grade andthen I got my ged.
I went through most of school,I had two children and I would
have still believed that ifsomebody kidnapped me at 20

(53:18):
years old, yeah, I would, Iwould 100 believe it, it
wouldn't take.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Still so young and naive at that age.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Especially after they beat you, torture you sexually,
assault you, deprive you offood, water and then confine you
and I can even see that at theshoe being on the other foot,
like if there was a chick thatcontrolling over me, where I
felt like you know she was myworld and I had no way to get
out of it and that was just life.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
I would be able to believe you Go along with it.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
People I know, but we won't say their names on the
pot, the tea.
That will happen afterwards.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Right.
So he would also tell her thatthe treatment that he was giving
her, like the bondage, thewhipping, the torture this
wasn't his idea, this was ordersfrom the company.
He would also pierce her labiaas an another form of
identification for the company.

(54:13):
So not only does she have towear a collar, now she's got
she's been tagged she's beentagged right.
So during what?
During what go ahead?

Speaker 4 (54:23):
the whole thing of like and handmaid's tale where
they do their ear.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yes, a whole yes that is exactly what I thought about
.
Yeah, so during the year ofwhat she calls her year out,
colleen convinced karen to lether write letters to her family.
He said he had to get itapproved by the company first,
but she does lean in.

(54:47):
Yeah, the company, the company,because it's bullshit.
That's why.
So, yeah, but she does startsending out letters, but she's
very careful about what she says, but, cameron, because cameron,
he's reading them before hesends them out, of course, and
she tells her family that she isstaying with a family up north

(55:07):
as their nanny.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
Did he actually send them out?
Oh, yeah, he did, he did,mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Because he monitored what she said first.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
So she also said that she was learning to garden and
how to can fruit and she sendsrecipes.
Then Cameron allows Colleen tocall her family, yeah, and then
he agrees to let her visit herfamily and she's just that
brainwashed where she won'tspill the beans exactly right,

(55:36):
I'm gonna get into that, butthey had to stop at the company
headquarters first and beforethe family visit, janice and
Colleen.
They were fighting all the timeas two.
I mean, these are young womenin their 20s Teenage girls.
Pretty much.
Yeah, they're still teenagemindset completely.

(55:57):
And one would complain aboutthe other to Cameron and this
pissed him off and he had hadenough.
He took them both out to thewoods to punish them.
He made Janice quit her job sothat Colleen would no longer
have to care for the children.
And I guess that was one thingthat the children the women were
arguing about was the children,because Colleen got very close

(56:18):
to these kids and then Janicewouldn't be there at night.
Colleen was taking care of himat night, she was doing their
nighttime routine so, and Janicewould have her days off.
Yeah, there's a connection, shewould do something different.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, what did he do for aliving?
He was a mill worker.
Oh, okay, yeah, he had donethat since like early on.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, and that's what he was doing when he met Janice
, when he was 19 and she was 15.
And now they're in their 20sboth of them.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
This is Zay.
Can you imagine working withsomebody and not even knowing?

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Not even knowing how is this going on At all.
There you go.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
There you go and it does happen.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
It does.
All the time and, honestly, helooks like a version of Jeffrey
Dahmer, like he's got the glass,he's got that whole 70s.
Look, yeah, that 70s psychoserial killer vibe yes exactly.
Unbeknownst to Colleen.
Her visit to her family wouldbe the last bit of freedom that
she would have for a while.

(57:15):
Cameron told Colleen that shewould need to pass some
obedience tests.
I did quotations before hecould get permission from the
company.
One of these tests would be toput her mouth around the barrel
of a gun and pull the trigger.
No way.
And it was not loaded, butimagine the I mean.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
The horror, the horror, the horror.
Like what if it was loadedExactly and you're gone?
You're?

Speaker 1 (57:41):
completely In her horror, Like what if it was
loaded Exactly and you're gone?
She's thinking in her head.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
Like what if it's loaded?
Absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
So Colleen gathers a few things to take with her and,
by the way, the companyheadquarters was just some
office building that Cameronmade her think was real.
And on the way to visit herfamily, she made sure or he made
sure that she got her storystraight that Cameron was her
boyfriend, mike Powers, and theywere engaged and he was going
to do some computer training inSan Diego while she had her

(58:10):
visit and they were moving soshe couldn't give them an
address just yet.
So she gets to her family houseand they're catching up and
she's keeping her story and herfamily just honestly believes
that she's in some kind of cultbecause they were everywhere at
the time.
Everywhere that was Jim Jones.
That was so many cults.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
It seems like that is like the staple of the 70s.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Staple Serial killers and cults 100% yes.
But they noticed that she waspale and looked underweight and
just broken down and around 24hours later she was supposed to
be able to stay for two days.
Mike called and said it's timeto go 20, 20, 24 hours to go.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I want a piece of data.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
I'm glad that they're chiming in now.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Because I can drink more Right.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
But, Colleen, she did what she was told.
She's an absolute.
I mean, I cannot explain howshe was completely brainwashed
that this company was real.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
She had it out too.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
And she just was like okay, time to go home, Yep.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
She feared that the company was going to kill her
family because of what Cameron.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
And.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I'm sure like I'm keeping this as lighthearted as
I can, but he was probablyconstantly plugging this into
her ear every single day.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Oh, I guarantee More than more than.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Absolutely so.
Mike aka Cameron.
He was introduced to the family.
They insisted on taking apicture of him and Colleen
together and that picture is outthere on the internet and we're
going to post that in ourstories and they look just like
a happy couple.
Oh, I can't wait to see this.

(59:54):
Yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
That's what really gets me whenever she starts
plugging in all the otherbullshit and then you've got a
face with it, and sometimes shedoes that in the middle of the
podcast do you want to see it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
oh, yeah, okay hold on okay let's pull this up for
my audience, my in-home audience, real quick yeah, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Before this is all over with, though, lindsey, this
is just going to be girl talkand I can just hang out and
drink there's cameron andthere's colleen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
That's the picture that they took.
Oh, look at this dude.
In her family home yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Oh, he's so, Jeffrey Look how she's smiling.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
He does look like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I told you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yes, and what's wild is, in our last case, with the
Ken and Barbie, they usedHalcyon, and that's also what
Jeffrey Dahmer used.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah, but we're going to cover that at a later date.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Yeah, because I remember him putting the rag
over there, mm-hmm, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
They leave Colleen's family and when they got home
she was placed back in the box,but not before Cameron raping
her first.
Oh God, Of course.
So this was 1981.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
There was some buggery going on now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Mm-hmm, Of course.
So this was 1981.
There was some buggery going onnow.
Like I said, this was 1981.
And other than to eat,occasionally bathe and use the
bathroom, she was not let out ofthe box again until 1984.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
What Lindsay 1984.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
In this box again.
Imagine how much she probablyshrunk.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
In your head.
You're just in your head,Because she's literally in a box
padded and she only gets letout to eat.
Oh my God, I had to take somany deep breaths while writing
this, just thinking about theconfinement of that.
That's worse than prison,that's worse than jail, Just
okay, so New Year's Eve, 1980.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
I'm trying to think of what music video had the dude
in the box I know I was tryingto think of that as well yeah, I
think it was.
I remember that I wonder ifthat was a reference to that,
because I think it was a toolback in the 90s right yeah, yeah
I.
I can picture what you're saying, but I can't place exactly the
artist that it was in yeahthere's some dna right there,

(01:02:03):
for that came back full circleLike she had had something to do
with it, like I'm literallypicturing the music video, but I
don't know who it belonged to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
So New Year's Eve 1983 was Colleen's birthday, her
27th birthday.
She got captured when she was20 and it had never been
celebrated during her capture.
So when the hookers got her outof the box that night and
saying happy birthday to her andgave her a cake, she was quite
shocked.
Could you imagine actuallyhaving appreciation after

(01:02:35):
getting out of a box andsomebody saying and I didn't put
this in my notes, but there wasa point in this where she would
she actually told Cameron thatshe loved him and all like she
had complete stockholm syndrome.
Yeah, 100 and she genuinely feltthat that's because that's all
she knew because and it wasn'tlike a love, like, oh my god, I

(01:02:55):
love you it was, I love you,thank you for getting.
Let me out of this fucking box,you you know.
So, kay, which was Colleen, wasreintroduced to the girls,
their kids, to the neighbors,and now she was allowed to sleep
in the living room in hersleeping bag that she had packed
to take on her trip with herseven years prior.
At this time, janice andColleen, they actually became

(01:03:20):
friends, mostly reading andtalking about the Bible together
.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Get out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Swear.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Really yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
So they found out how much they had in common like
getting married and dropping outof school at a very young age
and for some reason, seven yearslater, the guilt of having
Colleen as a slave.
It caught up with Janice Likeshe had been disassociating this
whole fucking time and now thatshe is like uh, 26 years old.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Oh, this is messed up .

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Right Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
There's your turning point, I like to look for.
I like to look for that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
There's I'm getting excited, right, yeah, yeah, here
we go Getting to a good part,yeah.
So Cameron made sure Colleen puton some weight and started
looking presentable, because hewanted her to get a job and
contribute to the family.
He told her that it was to paythe company fees and he

(01:04:16):
eventually wanted to marry herlike, take her on as a second
wife and get her her own traileron their property.
So Janice took Colleen out jobhunting and figured a motel maid
would be the best fit for her.
They stopped in at the King'sLodge.
Colleen asked if they werehiring and she was hired on the

(01:04:37):
spot by Doris Myron.
And in June of 1984, kay askedif she could go to church and
she was permitted to go on thechurch bus with the girls.
Then after that Janice startedgoing with them as well.
So, cameron, he used this tohis advantage because in the Old

(01:04:57):
Testament Abraham and Sarahcould not have children.
So Sarah permitted Abraham tomarry and sleep with their slave
Hagar.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Enter the handmaid's tale.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Handmaid's tale exactly.
And you know what did I tellyou?
Just like in the handmaid'stale, where they have them lay
sit on top of the wife that isexactly what Hagar did with or
Hager, I don't know.
It's spelled H-A-G-E-R.
That's what Hagar did withSarah.
She sat on Sarah's lap whileshe gave birth to Abraham's baby

(01:05:33):
.
Yeah, so he made it seem liketheir whole arrangement was
biblical and quite.
You know, in the eyes of theLord, this was the Lord's work.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
Well, yeah, he had to spin it that way, exactly, of
course.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
So, janice, she decides to talk to the pastor
about this, but under vagueterms.
But Janice soon realized thatCameron was using the Bible to
his own advantage.
Now Cameron tells her that hewants more slaves and this made
Janice physically ill and shedid not know what to do, because

(01:06:09):
she was guilty as well, becauseshe had went along with
Colleen's slavery for sevenyears.
And she didn't want to lose herkids.
So she tells Cameron I can't dothis anymore, please kill me,
because she knew that he wascapable, but he wouldn't go
through with it.
One day, in August 1984, shedecides just to pop in in

(01:06:33):
Colleen's job and tell her it'sall a lie, the company is
bullshit, the contract isbullshit.
She finally spilled the beans.
The company is bullshit, thecontract is bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
What yeah?
She finally spilled the beansand Colleen is absolutely
shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Yes, she's shocked and angry and she cried.
Janice cried and apologized.
Then they both decide to go tothe pastor and tell him a lot,
but not quite everything,because this is still a pastor.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
I wouldn't have went to a pastor, I'd have went to a
police station, police right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Seriously Straight to the police station.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Well, right now she's hung on the religion part of it
to try to rewrite.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
They're still both very afraid of Cameron.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
She's leaning on that for her righteousness or for
her redemption?
She's leaning on that, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
So the pastor's like y'all gotta leave, y'all need to
go, it's too much.
He said, you know, y'all gottago, Y'all gotta go right now.
But they knew Cameron was aboutto be home soon, because it was
getting close to four o'clockthat was his quitting time.
So they waited until the nextmorning.
Cameron left for work, thegirls went to Bible school and

(01:07:44):
they started packing.
They picked up the girls andthey went to Janice's parents'
house.
Now Janice wanted the two ofthem to get a place together,
but Colleen was like girl, I gotto go home, I got to go, I got
to go home.
So she still wanted to keep afriendship over a slave that
they've had for seven years,colleen called her father to
wire her the money for a busticket, and she set out for

(01:08:06):
Southern California.
She did call Cameron, though,and she said she told him she's
like I know you're a liar andI'm leaving.
I'm gone, and this fuckeractually fucking broke down and
cried on the phone.
He lost his power.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
You gotta be kidding me, no, he lost his power.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
You gotta be kidding me.
No, he lost his power.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Well, he knew he was going to jail.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I was about to say he lost control.
He didn't know what to do, notonly of his wife, of the one,
the girl he kidnapped, but ofhis wife and his children,
everything he lost his power.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Everything fell apart at once.
Yeah, and she actually stayedin touch with both Cameron and
Jana several times, and theybegged her not to go to the
police for the sake of thechildren, and colleen promised
that she wouldn't.
She loved those kids and didn'twant to jeopardize their
well-being.
Well, janice, she brings youback up and then she'll bring

(01:08:52):
you back down.
She was like, well, maybe I canfix him, and she went back.
What now?
He promised her he would changeand he would stop all the
bondage.
He even started going to church, and they got counseling from
the pastor.
The changes in Cameron didn'tlast long, though, and then
Janice encouraged him to okay,let's burn, let's burn

(01:09:15):
everything.
Let's burn the pornos, let'sburn the bondage equipment, the
pictures that you have, theslavery contract.
She was wanting to do a cleanse.
Yes, but there was still a copyhave the slavery contract.
She's wanting to do a cleanse?
Yes, but there was still a copyof that slavery contract.
Remember that?
So k powers she.
That's who colleen had become.
She struggled to regain heridentity as colleen stan, but

(01:09:35):
she stayed with her father andbecame a maid at a hospital.
Her she had.
She told her family everythingand they begged her to go to the
police.
But she wanted to just forgetabout it and move on.
But she was still writingletters to Cameron and Janice,
like they had that much of ahold on her.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
I couldn't imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Stockholm, stockholm, 110%.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
That was her entire life, no other way of life.
Yeah, seven years is a long-asstime, seven years.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
That's a long time, that's a long relationship,
that's a long everything.
So Janice was continuouslystruggling with her
reunification with Cameron andfinally finally left him for
good.
Janice goes for a doctorappointment and ends up
befriending a lady that workedin the office named Connie.

(01:10:26):
She tells this woman like shewas just trying to find somebody
to spill all this too.
She wasn't comfortable tellingher parents about it, cause they
didn't really like her thatmuch.
Anyway, she was carrying theweight, you know.
So she tells this woman thetruth about Colleen or in
Cameron, and how terrified ofCameron that she was.
So Connie encouraged her to goto the police and Janice was

(01:10:48):
hesitant at first.
And then Connie says well, whatif he does something to your
girls?
And it was like something justbroke through at that moment.
If anybody had said that to herbeforehand, this probably would
have been over a lot sooner.
But nobody did, because theydidn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
I was wondering the whole time like how could she
not be concerned for herchildren?

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
So she goes back to the pastor and tells him the
whole truth this time, and thepastor calls the police.
Now Cameron, he was arrestedand Janice was granted full
immunity for her testimony.
Cameron's attorney tried toargue that Janice and Colleen
both had willingly participatedin this threesome and it was

(01:11:34):
just a BDSM lifestyle.
So she walked.
Yeah, she does.
Yeah, she does.
And not a capture of aninnocent woman who had been held
captive for seven fucking yearsin a box pretty much under
their bed for most of it.
Now the media they wentabsolutely wild over this shit.
The prosecution actuallypresented the boxes and I have

(01:11:57):
pictures of those and thecontract.
So, cameron, like ian brady, hehad created a dark room and was
taking pictures and developingthem himself, so he didn't have
to send them off because, youknow, back in the day we had to
send our film off to getdeveloped.
Yeah yeah, so they found anegative of the contract.

(01:12:18):
He had actually took a pictureof it, so that's how that was
brought into the equation.
Yeah, good.
Then Janice throws anotherspoke into the wheel Murder.
Before they had kidnappedColleen, on January 31st 1976,
cameron had kidnapped a19-year-old named Marie

(01:12:39):
Elizabeth Spinhockey from Chico,california.
Cameron had tortured her for 24hours, then shot her with a
pellet gun, strangled her Afucking pellet gun, lindsay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
A pellet gun.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Well, he shot her in the stomach with that.
Then he strangled her, wrappedher body in blankets and they
buried her.
Him and Janice buried her nearLawson Volcanic National Park.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
And she's walked still.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
No remains were found , but Colleen knew that this was
true because that girl'spicture was in her box the whole
seven years and she had beenmissing too.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
I guarantee it.
Yeah, Wow, and still walkedright.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Still walked.
Still walked becauseunfortunately her remains were
never found, so they never couldcharge him with actual murder,
just for the bondage, the rapeand the capture.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
She's pissed over you , cindy's pissed like I am.
No wonder why this girl wasterrified Beyond terrified for
seven years, she looked at apicture of a girl who she knew
had been murdered by this man.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Yeah, had her locked in right then.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
right, oh my gosh Well, a forensic psychologist
and criminal profiler namedChris Hatcher testified step by
step of how someone can breakanother human into complete
slavery and how a person woulddevelop Stockholm Syndrome.
And after Janice and Colleenboth testified against Cameron,

(01:14:10):
he was sentenced to 104consecutive years for kidnapping
, sexual assault using a knifeand imprisonment.
Now he was eligible for anelderly parole program, but he
was released on parole to theDepartment of State Hospitals in

(01:14:30):
2021.
So he's still imprisoned, butit's like an elderly.
Long security, yeah A mentalinstitution or something.
Now, unfortunately, colleen hada string of failed marriages and
one troubled child who spenttime in jail.
But she does do volunteer workfor the Reading Women's Refuge
Center, which helps abused women, and she actually she got her

(01:14:54):
degree in accounting as well.
I forgot to put that in mynotes, but I remember that.
Yeah, janice, she became asocial worker and has worked as
a mental health professional.
I don't know how I feel aboutJanice Interesting.
I don't know how.
I know she was a child as well,but it's wild.
It's wild.
Well, she played her role in it.

(01:15:15):
She should have seen some sortof consequence.
I agree that was that.
Yeah, she changed her name andeverything.
Y'all are like me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
You're like dude, you got to spend time you got to
give back to society.
You do not belong in it, youknow Right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Well, my thing is too did their kids ever find out
about this.
You know, and I, I I couldn'tfind anything on that and the
judge, actually, he would callCameron one of the worst
psychopaths that he had evertried.
Well, I imagine Period I'm justthinking about the lawyer that
defended him, right, and he waslike.

(01:15:51):
I listened to the audio book.
It's called the Perfect Victimand it was written by the
prosecution that was, you know,stood in for Janice and Colleen
at that time.
It was written by her andanother woman named Carla Norton
and it gives a lot more, a lotmore information about the trial

(01:16:13):
which is it was.
It was quite long, it was andit was.
I mean, cameron's defenseattorney was hard up.
He was trying so hard to get tomake these girls have a bad
reputation, but I'm glad thatthe jury and the judge didn't
see it that way.
So there is a movie called Girlin the Box on Prime and then,

(01:16:35):
like I said, the audio book, thePerfect Victim.
And then there's another book Ido not know the name of it, I
forgot to look it up but it'swritten by Colleen Stan and it
goes into her whole experience.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
So I imagine that's what we're going to watch here
in a little bit, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
So, is that the whole story.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
That's the whole story, oh my goodness, lindsay,
this was rough.
What a rollercoaster ride, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
I'm telling you it's so much.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
It's so much.
That was a lot to take in.
I'm just going to slip one inright here, because you've
puddled three, and thank you forjoining us everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Absolutely, it was fun.
I'd like to say it was fun, butit was horrifying.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
It's not horribly fun , isn't it?
Yeah, welcome to my world.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Yes, Thank you for the story you know.
Most of our listeners are in.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
California.
They are.
Yeah, that's our biggestfollowing.
So thank you, california, welove you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
So if you're in the Red Bluff area, that one's for
you guys.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Yeah, I want to play music.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
What band are we plugging today, dot?

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Moccasin.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Dot Moccasin.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Yeah, Check them out.
I have a buddy that I go topowwows with Cody.
Okay and really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Cat Always has this really Is it spelled that way or
did you just spell Cody wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
It's spelled that way , or did you just?

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
spell Cody wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
That's it oh okay, he always wears his top hat.
Really cool cat, it's spelledlike code Plays the shit out of
the guitar, oh man.
So he finally got his bandtogether and they came to
Olustee and they won first placehere Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
For our little festival this year in the Battle
of the Bands.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Nice, I want to plug them the first Olussi that we
haven't been to.
We didn't go to.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Yeah, it's kind of the same cliche for us, but live
in Lake City.

Speaker 4 (01:18:21):
I didn't go this year either, because the last few
years has just been wah-wah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
So yeah, we don't really need to play reenactment
anymore.
I've been once.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
History is cool, but like reenactment part, all that
is just eh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
The food trucks are the highlight they are.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
That's what we go for now.
Yeah, you know you're old whenyou go straight to food trucks
and I always go to the Mexico,china and get birria tacos.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
And you have to take your kid once.
Oh yeah, all of my boys havebeen multiple times.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
You always have to get the fresh squeezed lemonade.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Yes, back in the day they used to have that homemade
root beer and that was my spot.

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
I don't know about anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I've got some kick-ass homemade burrito tacos
that I made a couple weeks ago,but I don't think anybody can
top, because the person whomakes it Uh-oh, uh-oh Challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Are we going to have?

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
a burrito taco, we might we just did some not long
ago and the Lindsays were fire.
But I think Cindy she does itwith like Cindy can rock some
food too now.

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
No, it's not me that does them, it's Vicky does them.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Oh, vicky does them Okay.
Oh, I know Vicky can cook.
Oh yeah, I'll eat the hell outof them, and it's with a brisket
.

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
She does it with a beef brisket.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
We love brisket tacos .
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
It is so good, lindsay DocMoccasinothinsite.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Follow us on Instagram.
I want to play some DocMoccasin.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
These guys are on fire.
They got some new music out,and so I'm going to fire this
thing off.
This song is called Bones.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
So check this stuff out.
I've been running For a longtime coming.
What have I got to lose?
I'm going to send it.
It's all or nothing.
Come on and make a move.
No, don't waste my time.

(01:20:24):
No, I got an arm on the line.
Take me down.
I can't be alone.
I got fire in my bones,reaching my soul All the way

(01:20:46):
it's gone.
I got fire in my bones.

(01:21:06):
I've been searching To get thishurting.
I got a need of a differentkind.
The way you're moving, there'sno fooling.
What you have is hard to find.
No, don't waste my time.

(01:21:32):
No, I got it all on the line.
Take me down.
I can't be loved.
I got fire in my bones,reaching my soul All the way to

(01:21:54):
stone.
I got fire in my bones.
Electric guitar solo.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
What do y'all think about that?
Wasn't?

Speaker 4 (01:22:56):
that hot.
I like it yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
It's like I was saying you guys know I love Jimi
Hendrix and it's giving offJimi Hendrix vibes for me.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
With a little bit of Lenny in there.
Yeah, with some Lenny Kravitz.
Yes, absolutely I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Yeah, and it was like it had that old school Southern
rock vibe, but it was new.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
Yeah, it was a new feeling to an old school, but it
would have still passed theWoodstock vibe.
110%, 110%, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
And it fit the whole persona of everything.
So, cody, amazing.
Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Yes, Thank you.
Band Excited to share you guys.
When the pod comes out I'll seeyou at a powwow sometime, bro,
we're going to hang out.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Yeah, and keep making music.
I can't wait.
I've listened to a little bitof some of your new stuff.
I know this is the one youwanted to plug on this one and
we're going to hit you guys upnext season for another song.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
We're going to play you some more.
So awesome stuff.
Lindsey, you puddled us.
You puddled three.
Yeah, it was kind of crazylooking at three faces going
with the jaw face.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
Yeah and we all have the same reaction.
Yeah, that was really cool.
We're human.
I've never been so speechlessin my life.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
That one was rough and I'm going to move on to
something else.
Next week I'm done with couples.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
Done with couples.
Thank you, I think I'm not sureshe's like no, the next one's
worse.
The next one's way worse fucker.
No, I'm actually going to be onto Rockville soon too.
I'm excited about that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yes, we got less than a month and we're waiting on
our tickets.
They're shipped now.
Yeah, they're coming in themail.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
So if you're going to Rockville in Florida, come
check us out.
We'll be at the.
We'll be in on the mic.
It's our 10-year anniversaryfor Rockville.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Yeah, and we'll have our podcast flag as well.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
We're ready, we're ready and thank you, cindy,
thank you, jojo.

Speaker 4 (01:24:46):
Yeah, of course my pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
I guess.
Thank you, Lindsay, I guess,for cuddling us over here so
much.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
And thank you, Doc Moccasin.
That was a cool-ass song.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Cool band Doc Moccasin.
That was a cool ass song.
Cool band, cool stuff.
We'll see you guys next Friday.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Tune in yes, bye, bye .