EPISODE 36: Matthew Shepard: A Hate Crime That Changed America

The brutal murder of Matthew Shepard in October 1998 shocked the nation and became a defining moment in the fight for LGBTQ+ rights and hate crime legislation. What makes this story particularly heartbreaking is the stark contrast between Matthew's gentle spirit and the savage hatred he encountered.

Have you thought about how a single life – and death – can change a nation's conversation about acceptance and equality? Listen to this emotional episode to understand why Matthew's story continues to resonate and inspire change more than two decades later.

https://www.matthewshepard.org/

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https://innocenceproject.org/petitions/justice-for-the-west-memphis-three/

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LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Jesse.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I just want to say cheers, lindsay, cheers.
We had a fabulous day.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
We have, yeah, went to the beach.
We did.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
It was phenomenal.
Yes, Do, do, do, do do.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Do, do, do, do, and I'm drinking before you ask me.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
What are you drinking ?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm ahead of you a little bit there.
It's a tropical Mai Tai byClawtails.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
By White Claw.
It's White Claw Clawtails.
It's a White Claw Clawtail.
Mai Tai, it's good Tropical MaiTai.
Tropical yes.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
And it makes me feel like I'm on vacation and I don't
have to make shit and it's good.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
And I'm having a raspberry Vista Bay, raspberry,
raspberry.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
So there should be like a whole ass hat that you
can wear while you're drinking.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
that Like a raspberry beret, raspberry beret.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'mtalking about.
Yeah, do it, yeah, do it.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, so what are we drinking about?
Lindsay?
I'm just, I'm here, roll thatintro.
I'm here, you're here and we'rehere First of all I want to say
okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
so last week's episode was LGBTQ Happy Pride
and we're going to continue withthat for the rest of this month
.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
And I just want to say Happy Friday.
Happy Friday, we rolling intothis already.
Oh, it's still in my head allthe time.

(01:50):
This little jam right here, ohreally I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's really cool, man .
You know what's in my head thisweek?
Tell me it's a tiktok soundbite, but it's.
It's that.
What the hell, what the helly,what the helly, what the
hellyante.
That's just, it's in my head.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I haven't heard it.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Okay, I'm going to look it up real quick.
Let's see.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, what the hellyante on Talk Tickin'?
I haven't heard it.
So like people are like whatthe hell?
She's checking it out.
I want to know.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
I want to know right now it's a choir what the hell,
what the hell, what the hell,beyonce, what the hell y'all.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
What the hell, mary?
So that's the kind ofalgorithms I want to be on.
I want those on my FYP, hellyeah.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
So that's been in my head all week.
Hell yeah, so that's been in myhead all week.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Hell yeah, that's cool.
Hell yeah, what the hell Yontae?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
What the hell Yontae made you feel old this week.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Music.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, why music?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, when we listen to music, people are like oh,
that's old music and it's likeyou keep sending me things.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
and then I see the dude walking around.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
He keep sending me things.
And then I see the dude walkingaround, like he's walking
around, he's going to differentpeople and he's like selling
cars or something and he's like,hey, you know what did ace of
base?

Speaker 1 (03:11):
oh, I introduced you to that, yeah he's like, he was
like.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
So what did ace of base see?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
yeah, and only like five of them.
But even the old guys, some ofthem can't get it.
But you know who always gets itmy 40 year oldsyear-old and
little Kellum.
He's the younger guy, he knowswhat's up.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
So now we're following the same dude, I love
that it's Pollywood yes.
So cool.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
So that's a car dealership in Canada.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
He surprises people and they're like uh.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
The one chick with the glasses she's like uh.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Every time Stolen shit.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, yeah, the whole time.
He's like hollywood.
So he goes around the cardealership that he works at and
he asks everybody, or like he'llsing a lyric and see if they
can sing it back or guess thesong.
And there's, this one guy willon there.
I don't think he's listened tomusic ever in his life, like
never had nothing never, got it.
So now he has.
So now he has put um like theirscore, like how many they've
gotten oh yeah, well, I see the.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I see the age on there.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Will has like.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I'm like if anybody's around like 35 to 45, they're
pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, they get it.
Yeah, they get it Like Derekand Kelly, like I know them by
heart.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
now, even the new shit, like he's talking about
new songs and stuff.
They still got it.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, so we still got it going on and then I'm
singing the whole song.
I'm like, come to me, polly,I'll do the whole song, I'll
dance everything.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, he walked up the other day.
He's like do.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, do.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
And he stopped and it was just like everybody's like
what.
And then, like a couple ofdudes, and then Mitch.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
I think it was at Mitch he was like do yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I was like dude , this guy's cool.
I'm going to start followingyour shit more.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I swear to God, I'm just going to share everything
that I share to you.
Follow it.
I will, I will and youralgorithm will be in rhythm.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
I hate my algorithm.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
But so, if you are new here, what we do is we have
a couple of drinks and I share atrue crime story with Jesse
that for the most part, or formost of them, he doesn't really
know anything about it.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I have a feeling like I need to get my seatbelt for
this one.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
You do.
I brought the tissue box.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
You brought tissues for this one, Lindsay Fuck you.
Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
But this happened when you and I were in high
school, and it has haunted meever since.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
So I need a string of pearls.
I can clutch the whole time onthis one.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Not no, because a lot of the shit.
You're going to be like, yeah,that's how it was because of,
but let me get to the story, ok.
Yeah, that's how it was becauseof, but let me get to the story
, okay, yeah.
So, anyway, what I do is I telljesse a story, a true crime
story, um that I've known aboutfor a long time done research on
and at the end of the episodehe plugs a band that he has

(05:59):
sought out, got permission toplay their music on our pod and
we try to to stick toup-and-coming artists, artists
that are underrated or thingslike that.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So two of our bands, three of our bands.
One is Global Sensation rightnow.
Uh-huh, aurora Wave, auroraWave.
Ride that wave, and Actus Reyesis doing some really cool stuff
.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
And Yosemite and Black is going to be doing some
really cool stuff.
They're playing like a poolparty.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Barbecue.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
It's like a barbecue with a pool.
There's like, yeah, in Atlanta,so they're doing some cool
stuff.
So some of the bands we'refinding they're amazing and any
of the previous bands hit usback up if you hear this and
tell me what you got going on.
We follow you.
Every band that we ever featureon here we follow them and we

(06:52):
want to share.
If you have anything reallycool going on and we actually
did something really cool thisweek I sent a package to
somebody that we talked about.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, jenny Haynes, wasn't that?

Speaker 2 (07:03):
awesome.
Yes, I can't wait, wasn't that?

Speaker 1 (07:04):
awesome.
Yes, I can't wait for her toget teddy bear with our little
logo on it.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, we sent her like a little cup and a teddy
bear thing for just appreciationof her strength and everything
that she had been through andfor us to have the opportunity
to share her story, so that wasreally cool.
So if you haven't heard theJenny Haynes, check that episode
out as well.
That was really cool.
So if you haven't heard theJenny Haynes, check that episode

(07:28):
out as well, and you know.
support these people if theyhave other things, little side
projects Like Dawn Designs byJennifer Turpin, Dawn Designs by
Turpin and just check out theirstuff, follow them and support
them and know that you'velistened to their story and
you're there for support andthat's the great thing.
You know, the world has reallydone some horrific things to

(07:48):
them and they just want to existand thrive in it.
So that's where we're at.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, yeah, that was really cool.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
She's like, yeah, she gave me her address.
I'm like, holy shit, this isthe first package I've ever sent
to Australia.
Cool Damn.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
That was awesome man.
It was very awesome, veryawesome.
Yeah, be some time before weget to that side of the world,
but one day I'm kind of proud ofthat.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Lindsay, I'm kind of proud of you telling me stories
and then me actually talking tothe physical person.
Yes, and they'd be like yousend me something about your
podcast.
That's really cool.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Because, unfortunately, not Everybody I
talk about is a survivor, but Ido like survival tales as well.
Try to mix those in.
And then there's always like,even with the Gabby Petito story
, like her family started thefoundation and that's where
there's going to be one thatwe'll talk about today.
So are you ready for me to getstarted?

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I'm buckling my seatbelt.
Here we go, shit.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
All right, today we're going to be talking about
a young man named matthewshepherd.
So matthew wayne shepherd wasborn on december 1st 1976 in
casper, wyoming, to judy anddennis shepherd, and he had a
little brother named logan, whowas born in 1981, the year of
your birth.
Wow, and they were very close.

(09:04):
Matth, matthew and Logan werelike two peas in a pod.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
They were like peas and carrots.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yes, Judy attended an Episcopalian church and she
kind of she let her boys decideif they wanted to join her or
not, which I thought was verycool.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Left it open.
That's good.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
And Matthew would go with her a lot, but Logan would
usually choose to stay home withDennis and they watch ball
games, you know, kind of thedude thing.
But at the same time nowlooking back I'm like I should
just stay at home, yeah, but butI mean, sometimes I mean, you
know, I mean and things likethat.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I don't know anything about Episcopalians.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
No, I don't either.
I don't know.
I grew up Pentecostal.
Non-denominational type.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Southern Baptist.
Free Will Baptist over here.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
So Judy would say that Dennis and Logan would join
them sometimes, but mostly itwas just her and Matthew.
They would come for holidayservices and things like that
and Matthew was super friendlyand got along with his
classmates and he was.
But he was like he was reallysmall so he would get teased
quite a bit but it didn't reallylike people still loved him,

(10:17):
like he was very well liked kid.
Judy says that Matt was bornprematurely.
He was due on Christmas but hecame on the first.
So they had them, a little baby.
He had to stay in the hospitalfor a little while.
You know, catch up with hisweight, but not too much.
I mean a month or 25 days,that's not too bad.
Prematurely, like for the mostpart, everything's developed.

(10:38):
But he did continue to staysmall throughout his life.
Right, he was super creative,loved writing poetry and acting
and playing dress up and hisfavorite person to dress up as
for Halloween and pretty muchany day of the week, was the
legendary treasure Dolly Parton.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Dolly Dolly Matt loves her some Dolly.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Cher and Dolly have got it going on.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, they still do.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
They still do Now.
Judy said that she knew from ayoung age that Matt might be gay
so she kept it to herself butshe prepared herself for the day
that Matt would come out andMatt would go on to be elected
as a peer counselor.
He was voted friendliest kid inhis high school class and Matt

(11:31):
was also really interested inpolitics, like at a young age,
and he liked to read thenewspaper Like that's so cute.
I personally I would beg myparents to buy the Sunday paper,
but that was just for thecomics.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
You remember on the Sunday paper they had the big
Well.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
you had told me that when your dad was working, you
would sit there and read thepaper while he was out there
busting ass in the heat, and youwere sitting in the truck.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Well, yeah, and when I would get done with that.
I had brought a book that'scute as fuck too, Lindsay.
Yes, I would eat.
Cute little Lindsay, I was sucha little.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Cutie dude.
I look at your pictures.
You're cutie.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
I look like a little boy.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, you're so cute you were like the one that even
if you were my daughter, you'recoming with me because you're
cute as shit, I swear.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I apologize in advance.
You guys, my allergy has beenkilling me for a month and
they're extra bad this week.
So been killing me for a monthand like they're extra bad this
week so I might be a littlenasally.
So matt's goals were that hewanted to be famous and he
wanted to be a diplomat forchange, I mean that's cool, go.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
I did not have goals like that in high school.
Those are big, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
So you know you gotta have a I didn't know what the
fuck I wanted to do with myself.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Well, it seems like it seems like so far, like he's
had a support system to actuallylet him have those thoughts and
the drive to actually do it.
You know.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And when Matt was in high school, I think his junior
year, dennis was hired as asupervisor for an oil company in
Saudi Arabia called SaudiAramco.
Yeah, we're going to go withthat.
So the family moved to SaudiArabia, wow, yes.
Yeah, we're going to go withthat.
So the family moved to SaudiArabia, Wow, yes.
And now most, you know mostkids would be like oh my God, I

(13:10):
got to move in high school.
But Matt and Logan, like theyactually they're excited about
the adventure.
They were excited about it, yeah, now there wasn't any
Americanized schools in thatarea, but there was one in
Switzerland called the Americanschool in Switzerland, or Tassus
, and it was a boarding school.
So he would be living there.

(13:31):
Judy said that there was arough start in the beginning.
Yeah, naturally yeah, and likethe boarding school, like
encourage them to, like separateright away.
But Matt knew that they werelike in a hotel right across the
street, so he would call themand cry and he's and Judy and

(13:52):
Dennis were like okay, theschool says that we have to keep
our distance, so you get usedto this new environment and
adapt.
And he ended up and he ended upreally thriving there, so it
ended up being a great, a greatmove All of that.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's really cool.
Sounds like it's going to be anawesome story here.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
While attending TASIS , matt became a theater kid and
he also took German and Italiancourses.
Friends of Matt also knew thathe was gay, but he wasn't quite
out yet, so no one was reallypressuring him to do so.
He was just accepted.
He had his group, he had hisbuds.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Sounded like he had it going on.
He's thriving, like he'sthriving, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
So Tassus would send kids out to different countries
so they could get cultured,broaden their horizons, have
cool experiences, that type ofthing.
Well, Matt and his friend group, they chose for their trip to
be to Morocco.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
The school wasn't really on board at first because
of safety issues, and this wasin 1995, by the way, and when
Matt and his group were having agreat time at first.
But one night Matt went out byhimself for a walk and
unfortunately he was robbed andraped by six men in Morocco in

(15:19):
Morocco.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Dang.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Lindsay, and after this, matt was never the same.
He would have nightmares, panicattacks, and suffered
tremendously from depression, tothe point of being hospitalized
for it, along with suicidalideation.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
That is fucking horrific man.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Like you know, he was just going out because his mom,
judy, like, explains that, ashe was, just he was restless and
I believe it was a lot of ADHDtype things and he just wanted
to explore and he wanted to dothings.
He didn't want to sit still.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
A brilliant, deep minded, yes, human being.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
And didn't.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
And then they're going to take that little part
and fuck it all up.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah Dang and fuck it all up.
Yeah Dang.
But Judy also says that theyreported it right away, but they
were scared because there wasanother case of that happening
to somebody in that area and thevictim was persecuted for
homosexuality.
The victim was, now, it wasn'ta US citizen, it was, you know,

(16:24):
a Moroccan citizen.
But I, I was just appalled.
So, matt, he got through therest of the high school year and
he graduated, and then hedecided to move to North
Carolina and attend CatawbaCollege.
Yes, I think that's how you sayit Catawba, we're going to go
with Catawba.
Okay, so this was the year thathe actually came out to his

(16:46):
mother, but he wasn't quiteready to come out to his dad or
Logan, quite just yet.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, he was scared of rejection, disappointment and
all that.
God that's.
That's really hard to hold ontowhen you have an inner turmoil
going on and you're like this ismy sexuality, I want to be this
person, and you're so scaredand, unfortunately, in the
nineties it was getting easier,but it was still taboo, you know

(17:12):
.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, I mean it just.
I remember going to school withcertain people that I knew were
before they did yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
I mean you go back in history and I love them just
the same.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
And you know, and I would never say you know to
their face or not even behindtheir back, you know, not in a
bad way, I just in my mind.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
I would be like unless they wanted to say it,
you just wouldn't say.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
And then later on in life when I would reconnect with
, be so happy for them that theyhave been able to come out and
be true to themselves yeah, well, I mean in history, like I'm
saying like you go all the wayback to, like ancient greece and
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Dudes, they did whatever they wanted they did
whatever they wanted.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Love was love.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yes, you know, even even like the, the, even some of
the old cowboy movies and stuff, love was love even uh, I mean,
I haven't even heard dudes talkabout it in prison Love is love
, right?
Whatever?
Nobody judging shit, just doyour thing, and as long as it's
consensual, everybody just comesout happy in the end.
There's nothing to explain whenit comes to that to me.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, judy, she had been married to her husband for
a long time and she felt like,ok, I want to go ahead and tell
Dennis, but she made sure shetold him.
Say, hey, when Matt doesfinally feel comfortable coming
out to you, make sure you saythe right shit.
You know right, when he finallydid come out to his dad and

(18:37):
brother, they were very coolabout it and he became a lot
more confident and then he cameout to his friends as well.
So then he went to Denver for ayear and he had some issues
with depression andirresponsibility and his parents
were like, hey, you got to getit together.
We love you, but we'resupporting you and you've got to
stay on track.

(18:57):
So he then transferred toLaramie, wyoming, where he
attended the University ofWyoming as a first year
political science major and heminored in languages.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Intelligent, brilliant, just excelling.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
And he's.
Oh my God, he was such a cute,such a cutie.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
I don't know anything .

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I know.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I'll show you pictures in a little bit.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
He really shined here .
He created a mentoring programfor new students, especially for
LGBTQ students, like he wantedto make them feel welcome and
comfortable with who they were.
And he was chosen as therepresentative for the Wyoming
Environmental Council and hefinally felt good and safe and

(19:39):
he was on his way to conqueringdemons or conquering his demons,
not just demons.
You know, he went out therebecoming demon slayers.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
It wasn't religious, it was just his inner self.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
No, and you know what sucks is.
When he was in I don't know ifit was in North Carolina or
Denver he had actually went toan Episcopalian church there and
he wanted to talk to a guidancenot I don't want to say
guidance counselor a person thathe should have been able to
open up to, and they just toldhim that he was a fucking sinner

(20:14):
and you know, just evil forbeing so.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
He was genuinely coming to them about his uh,
life everlasting and what hebelieved in, religion, and got
completely fucking shunned.
Shunned because he was tryingto be honest with him.
Yep, and then have anunderstanding, I think, since
this guy, since, since he was achild that's how god made him

(20:36):
exactly, thank you.
Thank you for being on thatthere's no one to blame about
that.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
There's nobody to to blame, oh God.
And that makes me.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, no, we're definitely on the same page when
it comes to all that.
You can't help how you are.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Nope, and you don't need to help how you are.
You just need to be able to bewho you are.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, without having to explain shit to anybody.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, he became a part of an LGBTQ group and
October 6th 1998, they werehaving a meeting to discuss an
upcoming gay awareness week andthey were planning like events
and you know, coordinating thiswhole thing for gay awareness
week.
And everyone was getting readyto go home but Matt wanted to

(21:23):
have a drink at the Fireside Barand he asked his friends to
join but they were like, nottonight, you know, we got to get
up early, tomorrow we got to goto school and they thought that
he was going to go home too.
But Matt didn't mind going outby himself as he was always down
for making new friends andreally didn't meet a stranger.

(21:46):
He was, you know, he was justhe was that guy.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
He was outgoing.
Yeah, I feel like you're fixingto dump some shit on me right
now.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
I know you see me over here Wow.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, I can tell by her body language over here you
fitting to hang on.
Let me click my damn seatbeltback in Son of a bitch Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
So he goes to the bar around nine and he orders a
Heineken and chatted with thebartender for a little bit.
The bartender had seen him comein a few times and was familiar
with him.
And around 10 pm these two methhead roofers came into the bar
and their names were AaronMcKinney and Russell Henderson.
They buy a pitcher of beer withnickels and dimes.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Broken hearts and nickels.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
I don't even want to associate these fuckers with
that song.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Well, I know they paid for a pitcher of beer.
I feel like you're fitting tobreak my heart with nickels
right now, with nickels anddimes.
That's such a cool band we play.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
So that's definitely, yes, they were.
So this is you know.
That's definitely yes, theywere.
So this is, you know, that's ared flag.
Right off the rip.
Right off the rip.
Now.
Aaron.
He was a troublemaking assholeand russell was kind of his
lackey.
He was the follower.
Aaron had been in trouble mostof his life and was actually
waiting on sentencing fromrobbing a kfc when he was in

(23:01):
that bar.
It's a fucking chicken.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
The fuck, are you robbing the colonel for?

Speaker 1 (23:06):
me, he got $2,500.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh fuck, From KFC.
Well, we opened a KFC together.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
But I don't think they were supposed to, I mean,
so he had to rob them and getthat safe open because, there
ain't that much money.
No, they locked that shit up.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
There ain't that much money in the cash register.
200 years ago, me and Lindsayopened up a KFC together.
Wasn't that cool, yes, whydidn't we hook up then I don't
know.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
And then that was like a 15-year-old I was a
cashier drive-thru girl and youwere the friar, I don't know.
I was in the back, I wasflipping chicken.
That's some crazy shit when youlook back, we worked at the
same place and we went to schooltogether.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, and my co-worker.
We had worked together doingelectrical work 25 years ago,
and then you and I workedtogether 27 years ago.
Lindsay, what made you feel oldnow?
Lindsay?
What made you feel the fuck old, right?

Speaker 1 (23:58):
now that right there, because you never asked me.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I'm putting numbers on that shit now.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Keep on going.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I'm sorry sorry, I feel like you're fixing to drop
the bomb here we well, aaron.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
He was also openly homophobic and very racist, but
on this night he decided withhis buddy russell that they
would pretend to be gay and getMatt to leave with them and rob
him.
Unfortunately, this despicableplan worked.
So Matt leaves with these twoassholes who neither one had a

(24:33):
driver's license, by the way,because of DUIs.
But of course Matt, he didn'tknow that.
And after being in the truckfor a little bit, aaron turns to
Matt and says guess what, we'renot gay.
And you're getting jacked again.
And starts hitting Matt withthe end of a 357 Magnum revolver
over and over to get his wallet.

(24:55):
And Matt was like here, you canhave my wallet.
Like it wasn't hard, like Mattwas just like here.
But Aaron keeps pistol,whipping him over and over.
Aaron and Russell then pull offto a secluded area near a fence
and drag Matt out of the truck.

(25:15):
And Matt, he's fighting backand he's, he's fighting back and
he's trying to run.
And they catch him and theydrag him back and Aaron then
tells Russell to grab some ropeto tie Matt to the fence.
And then they do that and theytie his hands behind his back

(25:37):
and then Aaron continues topistol with him and he stole his
shoes, and then they left himtied to that fence in freezing
temperatures.
And then these two fuckers headback to town, pick a fight with
two Mexican-Americans namedEmiliano Moreles and Jeremy
Herrera, which resulted in headwounds for both of them.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
You can't do this to me.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
So they got that.
They they do this to Matt.
Then they leave Matt.
Okay, they go pick a fight likeimmediately afterwards, and
those guys kick their ass.
So now, 18 hours later, OnOctober 7th, a boy named Aaron

(26:22):
Kreifels I'm pretty sure that'show you say it who was a
19-year-old student, was ridinghis mountain bike.
He was a cyclist like he didthis every day, and he was
riding on what was then calledPilot Peak Road and Snowy View
Roads and he hit something andit made him fly over the
handlebars of his bike and whenhe gets back up, he notices what

(26:43):
he thought was a scarecrow on afence.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Lansy.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
He thought it was a Halloween decoration, because we
are in October here.
So he takes a closer look andhe sees that the scarecrow is
covered in blood and breathing,but barely oh my God.
So he's like oh shit, this is aperson.
So he gets on his bike and hegoes to the nearest residence to
call for help.
This was hard for me to getthrough, I'm so sorry.

(27:10):
Officer Reggie Flutie was thefirst on the scene and she
couldn't drive all the way towhere Matt was because of rough
terrain, so she had to get outand run on run, I mean, I don't
want to say walk, she ran onfoot.
And to really picture how smallMatt was, she thought he was a

(27:30):
12-year-old boy.
What the fuck?
Yeah, he was covered in so muchblood that the only thing you
could see other than the bloodwere his tears.
You can't had washed away someof the blood.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
You cannot.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
He had tear trails down his eyes.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
You cannot dump this shit on me.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh, it's going to get worse, I swear to God.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
See, you cannot.
This is just, oh my God,Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
This is the roughest one.
I would get this one off mychest this month because I've
known about this for a very longtime and I think about and I've
heard a few other podcasterscover it.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Just left him out there Just left him out there
For being himself and existing.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
And Reggie says I just read the next sentence so
I'm already like teary eyed.
No, Reggie says in thedocumentary Matt Shepard is a
friend of mine that there hadbeen a doe laying near him.
And when she got there the doewatched her for a minute and
then slowly got up and trottedaway.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
So you mean to tell me?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Shot off.
That deer had been with him forwho knows how long.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Who controls animals like that?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
In your mind Lindsay, who controls animals like that?
What do animals do?
They exist.
Exactly, and do exactly whatGod intended for them to do, and
then he felt like he was just,he's been completely rejected by
God, and then ungodly thingshappen to him.
So demons are fucking real,lindsay, I know.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
That's how they are to me they are, they can be
everywhere.
Demons are humans.
Yeah, they're not.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean there might be some of the spirit world
they're clouding up.
This is gonna get.
This has been real.
I have been crying.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
I was yesterday when I was getting my, I have been
crying.
I was yesterday when I wasgetting my toes painted and I
took the tablet with me so I cantype some out.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
I was crying while I was typing this shit out.
We are a rainstorm right now.
Like we are, I feel likestorming and I'm not enraged
right now at the moment, but I'mcompletely fucking just puddled
on this one.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
So, reggie, she was waiting for backup and trying to
do what she could to help Matt.
She let him know that he wasnot alone, that she was there to
help him, and more help was onthe way.
Then Sheriff Dave O'Malleyarrived and he said that there
was a blood spatter at a 50-footradius.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Where they just continuously—.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Hit him.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Hit him.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Over.
There was drag marks everywhere.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
With a hunk of steel and wood just— yeah, that's what
that is.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I know, I looked it up, yeah, and they—and I
remember—I remember my teachertelling—and when I was in 10th
grade when this happened, I wasin world history class and my
teacher, she, was telling usthis story and she was crying.
So the whole class was crying.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
So this goes all the way back for you.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, that story has been hard to describe because
she she printed the story outfrom the computer and read it to
us, what they had at that time.
And I remember just like shewent into detail.
She was so angry, she was soangry about it all and just I

(30:59):
remember her passion while shewas telling us this story and
just I just pictured this smallyoung man just being just beat
up.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
And then tied up and then beat more.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, so there was, like I said, there was drag
marks everywhere and he, officerO'Malley, said that this would
be the worst crime scene in hiscareer thus far that he had seen
.
Wow, because I mean, like inthe documentary they say that
the whole state of Wyoming is asleepy town, so it's not.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Kind of chill.
Yeah, holy shit yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I'm holy shit.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I mean other than death.
I mean he was probably wishingfor that at this point.
I mean getting beat that badGod.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
So they get Matt to the hospital and guess who's
like four doors down due to ahairline fracture Because he got
his ass beat, aaron.
Mckinney, yes, from that fightthat he picked right after
pistol, whipping Matt and tyinghim to a goddamn fence.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Right there, right fucking next door yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Police do question Aaron right away and we're like
I know you got hit in the head,but you got a lot of blood on
you, buddy.
Why is that?
And those details are hazy ofhow he got out of the hospital
without the OK.
So while Aaron was in thehospital, russell goes back home
to where they had left theirgirlfriends Chastity Pasley and

(32:26):
Kristen Price, and also AaronMcKinney.
He's got a baby son and Russelltells them that they did
something terrible.
Then Aaron gets there too andthey tell the girls that they
need alibis.
So they discussed the storythat they need alibis.
So they discussed the storythat they were going to tell and
they told these girls that theywere pretty sure they had

(32:48):
killed an f-a-g really yeah,they told their girlfriends what
makes you like no matter noamount of alcohol, you're gonna
rank out somebody he didn't.
He had a pitcher of beer.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Now he might have been on that he had, yeah,
jacked up or something but whatI listened to?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
what?
About what amount of alcohol Ilistened fuck, I read what do
you get out of that?
Or I listened to I don'tremember if it was on a podcast
or in judy shepherd's book, butsomebody said that they deep
dove into the effects of methand it's not as violent as this.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
It's not um no, he was acting like he had something
to prove right.
This was a joke to him so they?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
they helped russell and aaron, the girlfriends.
They helped them get rid of thebloody clothes and, uh, the
story was that they were homeall night watching movies.
But how can that fly when bothof them were caught by police in
a fight and one was in thehospital, right?
How is that alibi gonna?

Speaker 2 (33:51):
fly.
All that was written down, sohere we go.
Right, we got some shit to rideon here I'm.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
I want to ride this one, ride this, here we go now
aaron would say he told thegirls that he beat Matt up
because Matt had come on to himand he was teaching Matt a
lesson not to come on tostraight people, motherfucker.
You pretended to be gay so thatyou could rob him.

(34:16):
Yeah the fuck, make it makesense, all the fucking yes.
So if he had come on to you, itwas because he thought you were
down.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
And I learned to ride out with him and and hang out
with him.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
And they hit.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
No matter what the outcome.
He was wanting to hang out withhim because they told him they
were something else, right?
What the fuck, dude?
Oh, you're going to make mefucking mad right now, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
So, and they hit Matt's.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
They hid it.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
They hid.
That's some white trash assshit right, there Ain't nobody
gonna look right in here, man.
Oh well, they found it.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
A little poo-poo, some poo-poo huggies over here.
What the?

Speaker 1 (34:54):
fuck man.
Now Matt Shepard, who hadendured 18 blows to his head and
face with the butt of arevolver and had four skull
fractures God, his ear had beencrushed into his skull, which
damaged his brain stem.
So, yes, when he was found hewas breathing, but he was very

(35:17):
much in a coma, whoa.
So his parents.
They're all the way in SaudiArabia, right, and they were
contacted by the hospital at 5am and Judy was like she thought
it was Matt calling her becauseit was United States.
Even though he, she said, eventhough he knew the time
difference, he didn't care, hewould just call him.

(35:39):
You know, it's his parents,they're all the way in Saudi
Arabia and he's in America.
But it was the hospital, andthe hospital let them know that
their son like vaguely told themthat he had been severely
injured.
So they're thinking a caraccident, something like that.
So they frantically pack andthey make their journey back to
Wyoming, which would take themaround 50 hours.

(36:01):
Really, imagine your thoughtprocess.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Well, unplanned travel, yeah Well, first of all,
50 hours of you just completelynot really knowing.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Knowing what's happening.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Imagine our child Lindsay.
I got to come back at you rightnow.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
I don't want to imagine 50 hours away from some
tragic no An our child.
I'm trying to come back.
I'm trying to come back at you.
I'm already.
This is horrific dude, we'refunneling.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
And they were told on the phone that Matt may not
make it through the night.
Wow.
So, like I said, they assumedthat it was from a car accident,
but not that he had been avictim of a hate crime.
So they finally make it to thehospital and find out the whole
story.
They go in to see Matt and heis just unrecognizable.

(36:49):
I mean, his everything isdemolished, just beat up, god,
they are told.
I cannot imagine.
They are told that he is braindead and they had to make a
decision to take him off of lifesupport.
No, but they can't do it rightaway.
They wanted to make sure thatthey let as many people as they
could come to say goodbye and bythis time the story is

(37:12):
everywhere.
It's all over the media, likethey.
Judy says that while they werein like a layover, they heard
this story on the news beforeshe had even got to her son.
Yeah, so Russell and Aaron getpicked up for questioning and
Aaron, he basically admits whathe did because he honestly

(37:35):
didn't think he was going to getin trouble for beating up a gay
guy.
Really he didn't think he wasgoing to get in trouble for that
.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
He thought that it was just going to be Like you
had fucking done somebody somefucking justice or something
like you had done something cool.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
What the fuck.
Now he did say that Russellnever hit Matt, but that he
giggled when the attack washappening.
And Aaron said what happened?
Was he blacked out from angerover being come on to?
And it was.
It was just a robbery gone bad,for which they only got twenty
dollars, twenty dollars.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Matt's friends and family felt that this was going
to be covered up and they werenot going to let that happen.
Matt's guidance counselorcalled all the surrounding areas
, all the media, to let themknow that this needed to be
reported as a hate crime, not arobbery gone bad Full on.

(38:34):
And his name was Walt and hewas actually the first person
that Matt had come out to and hewas also gay.
So he helped Matt get thecourage to come out to his
friends and family, as he hadhad the same struggles.
While Matt was still in lifesupport, his father drove four
hours to Casper to see if hecould find Matt's favorite

(38:57):
stuffed animal from when he wasa kid, which was a bunny named
Oscar.
But he couldn't find it.
But he did later on, but it wasjust.
It was not in that spot and Ithink it was in a storage unit
that they had.
But he was just, he was tryingto.
He did find other things.
He felt that if he broughtthose things to Matt he would

(39:17):
wake up.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I feel like you're abusing me right now, lindsay,
I'm abusing myself.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
So nothing is improving with Matt and they.
They really don't want to pullthe plug, they, you know, it's
just that that's got to be theworst decision for a family.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
If you ever show up to another podcast with a box of
fucking tissues again.
I sort of got them leaving.
This is raw dude.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
So they ask Walt to please tell Matt that it was
okay to let go.
So he did and that same.
Within that same 24 hour period, at 1253 AM on October 12th,
Matt passed away without beingunplugged.
Hold on Just a minute.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
This has got to be the worst damn thing you've ever
thrown.
Hold on Just a minute, manzy.
This has got to be the worstdamn thing you've ever thrown at
me, I know.
You know how many times I'vesaid that already on this
podcast that you've done here.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
His funeral services were held October 18th 1998.
And it was so huge thatneighboring churches also had to
open their doors for people whowanted to show their respect.
And it was broadcast on a localradio station.
Judy said that that's who shefelt like deserved to broadcast

(40:40):
it because CNN had wanted tocover it, but the family
declined that offer.
I really, really, really wantyou guys to read or listen to
the audio book by Judy Shepard.
It's called the Meaning ofMatthew and it is narrated by
her on the audio book, so thatwas even more personal for me to

(41:02):
listen to.
It's about five hours on audiobook and it is on.
I listened to it on Spotify, soit's probably on all of the all
the platforms.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'm verklempt right now.
I know Talk amongst yourself.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Verklempt, Verklempt and it.
It really gives you a visual ofwhat the family went through at
this time.
She explains everything thatthey went through from the time
that they left Saudi Arabia.
I can only imagine she explainseverything, all the way up to
everything that is such a longtime just to get there and then

(41:38):
just find out.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
All this is really true.
It's like it's not reallyhappening, but you're getting it
while you're on your way, right?
Oh my God, lindsay, your ownchild, and a beautiful human
being that had so much to give.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
A beautiful human being.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Some shitty ass people that had so much to take
away.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
There was.
Ok, so this was October 18thand there was a snowstorm that
happened.
Judy says that it started outwith rain, then it came to sleep
and then it went to snow andpeople who attended outside
still stood there.
There you go For his services.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
There you go, the beautiful ass, human being that
had nothing to give butgreatness to the world and it
just stripped away.
And you have literally fuckingpuddled me over here, lindsay.
We're a mess.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Are you ready to get?

Speaker 2 (42:29):
mad.
It's getting worse.
You're getting worse.
Ready to get mad.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Guess, who shows up, guess, who shows up to this boys
fucking funeral?

Speaker 2 (42:35):
I'm fitting a leg wrap for you.
Don't you drop this shit on meright now, don't you do?

Speaker 1 (42:39):
it, don't you fucking the Westboro Baptist Church.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Oh, the ones that said that you were shunned
because of your selfness yourhuman being ass, human being ass
, ass.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
So I don't have words , I don't even want to say, for
the hate that I have for thembecause that's what they like
For the disdain that I have forthis organization.
They are a hate group, a foul,horrific hate group.
Listeners, if you are notfamiliar with the Westboro
Baptist Church, it is a hatecult founded by Fred Phelps in

(43:14):
1955, located in Topeka, kansas,and they hate the LGBTQ
community.
Oh fuck.
They hate the Jews, they hateMuslims and they hate other
Christian denominations.
They even show up to soldiers'funerals and picket, saying God
hates dead soldiers, and theydefinitely picket concerts.
We've watched that.

(43:35):
Oh yeah, Remember we watchedDave Grohl go by when they were.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
He was acting like he was out there with them, yes,
but, by the way, so this wasn'tthe ones he was trying to
confide in and do his own littlething, and it wasn't the same
church he went to to begin with.
And they were like now, you'rea sinner.
This is a whole different asschurch.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
This is the Westboro.
This is the Westboro BaptistChurch, the one that shows up
with signs that says they showedup to Matthew's funeral with
signs that said God hates FAG's.
What they had?
One with a picture of Mattsaying Matt is in hell, and they

(44:20):
were holding up signs withstick figures having anal sex
saying that anal sex equalsdeath, and they had children
holding these signs up, then whydid God send an animal over
there to lay next to him?

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Exactly?
This is not a funeral, right?
You can't let that shit justfucking play out.
This is so a funeral Right.
You can't let that shit justfucking play out.
This is so horrific to beginwith.
You're going to have your shitwith it to begin with.
In the name of Jesus.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Oh yeah, they are, they are, they are.
If they're, I mean whatever.
They're evil Fucking on edgedude.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Like I want to get up right now and do some karate
kicks right now, dude, I Dude.
Like I want to get up right nowand do some karate kicks right
now, dude, I want to do like abackflip right now, just like
Now.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Judy says in her book that it took her and her
husband a lot of restraint tonot fight these fuckers, but she
knew they get their fundingfrom winning lawsuits against
people who they provoke andstrike them.
Yeah, I hate them so much.
I hate them so much Negativecharismatic bullshit.
People outside held handsfriends, family and strangers.
They held hands to block themand they sang Amazing Grace.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Right in front of them, right in front of them.
Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
So there were several memorial services that were
held.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Lindsay.
They sang that song on theTrail of Tears while they were
going through all that shit.
I'm bringing in some NativeAmerican stories right here.
Can you believe that While theywere getting stripped away from
their land, the NativeAmericans were singing that song
?
So that's a I mean, that's agodly powerful song like real

(45:59):
God shit.
Yes, like real spiritual shit.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Right, right, yeah, but that's what gets me is like
this is a church that is overhere spewing hate against these
people who are peacefullyholding hands and singing
Amazing Grace.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
How the fuck do you justify that?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
No.
Holding hands and singingAmazing Grace, right?
How the fuck do you justifythat?
No, all you can do in anyreligion is just tell them that
this is my religion and you'reallowed to have your own choice
but I believe in this and let itbe.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
That's it Right Now.
There were several morememorial services held as well,
and protesters showed up to allof them, but they got through it
.
I would hit them.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Bitches upside the head with a flip-flop every
chance I got.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Well, that's how they get their funding.
They would sue you.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Well they would have.
I would wear 10,000 flip-flops.
They could sue me 10,000 times.
They got all the flip-flops.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
So Aaron McKinney goes to court first, and his
trial lasted from October 25thto November 4th in 1999.
He was charged with aggravatedbattery, kidnapping and first
degree murder.
Prosecution wanted death, butJudy and Dennis, they actually
petitioned for life.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Just let him live it out.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
And the defense tried to use the gay panic defense,
which is a real thing.
This excuses assault or murderwhen the defendant claims that
the victim.
What the fuck is this a realthing?
Don't be.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
No.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Let me tell you oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
this excuses assault or murderwhen the defendant claims that
the victim's sexual orientationor gender identity causes them
to lose control and commit aviolent act.
This defense has since beenbanned in several states not all

(47:47):
of them.
Luckily, the judge did not gofor it, and Aaron received two
life sentences without thepossibility of parole, and
Russell Henderson also receivedtwo life sentences.
Chastity Paisley and KristenPrice were both charged with
accessories.
After the fact, I think theirshit ended up getting reduced
down to a misdemeanor.
What but Russell Henderson andAaron?

(48:10):
They're in jail, they're inprison.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
I hope they stay there.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Judy and Dennis formed the Matthew Shepard
Foundation and are still, tothis day, advocates for gay
rights.
There was a group that wasformed called Angel Action
around the time of the trials ofAaron and Russell and they
would dress as angels and holdhands to block protesters and

(48:38):
hold hands to block protesters.
They made angel wings out offoil and pipe.
You know the things that we didin arts and crafts and shit, and
it's just precious Pipecleaners and foil Pipe cleaners
there we go Pipe cleaners andfoils and huge angel wings and
that group is still affectedtoday.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
It's a fucking shame that they had to tie religion
into all of this.
It's just a fucking hate crime.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, an angel is an angel.
It doesn't have to be religious.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Or have a sexual preference.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Because we were born off of two people according to
that religion.
I'm just going to be quietafter that.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
I'm just going to be quiet after that.
So Tori Amos she dedicated hersong Merman to Matthew in her
tour the year after Matthew'smurder.
Melissa Etheridge's songScarecrow was released in 1999.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
No way In Matthew's memory.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
This one's going to really get you.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
I'll do another one.
This one's going to really getyou.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I'll do another one, and Trivium released their song
and Sadness Will Sear in 2006,which is a tribute to Matthew
Shepard.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I love me some Trivium, I know you do?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
We just bought tickets to their show today on
the way home.
What, lindsay?
Yes, I've already talked aboutthat Well.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Thank you for the awareness I mean.
Thank you for sharing that.
Why the fuck is religion tiedinto Human?
The gay panic defense?

Speaker 1 (50:06):
The gay panic defense .
You've got to be fuckingkidding me Well.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Lindsay, you hit me with a fucking Twinkie defense
Last week.
I know Twinkie defense, gaypanic defense.
What the fuck defenses can theycome up with?

Speaker 1 (50:20):
To me.
I would laugh at both of thosedefenses.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
The fucking lawyers are so trying to manipulate the
system.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
I mean, I actually understand the Twinkie defense
more than I do the gay panicdefense, because junk food and
sugar over sugar, over abundanceof it, can fuck with your brain
I think I need to keep a log ofthe fucking defenses that we
hear here over here, here herebut that makes more sense,
you're okay.

(50:50):
so if you are a person who isdeeply um whatsoever, I'm not
not offended.
If it bothers you so much aboutanother person's way of life,
there's something wrong with you.
Yeah, you need to turn yourcamera around or look in a

(51:12):
mirror, whatever you want to do.
Look at yourself and say, hey,what the fuck is wrong with me
that I care so much about whatthey're doing over there, 99% of
it is not projected onto you.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Right Now, if it's projected onto you, whatever it
is whatever it may be, you havea right to defend yourself,
right?
What the fuck is?
Just pure ass fucking existing.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
These fuckers pretended to be gay to Rob Matt
because they seen that he waswell-dressed and a well-kept boy
young man he was 21.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
He looked like a little child and he was so small
, oh my God, he was-.
Lindsey fucked around andshowed me a picture.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
He was 5'2".
He was 5'2".
That's an inch shorter than meand 110 pounds.
Little feller, our 11 year oldchild, is bigger than him.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, what the fuck?
Oh, I can whip his ass.
I bet I really hope.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson that you, that
made you feel good, that madeyou feel like a man to go out
and to pretend that you were gayto rob somebody, and then if
that person did come on to you,they had all the justification
to, because you told them youwere down.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, I mean as far as their existence goes.
Hopefully it just weighs onthem completely the whole time.
That that part get in, get intheir head is as bad as they
fucked up Matt's head.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
There is a speech or a victim impact statement that
Dennis says during thesentencing and I was going to
read that, but I can't.
I can't get through it.
Like I said, please, pleaselisten to or read Judy's book,
the Meaning of Matthew.
Dennis does read his victimimpact statement at the end and

(53:02):
there is the documentary.
Matt Shepard is a friend ofmine.
Please watch that.
This never needs to beforgotten ever and I want to.
I'm going to look up and see ifthe Matt Shepard Foundation
takes donations.
I want to donate somethingbecause I want that to keep

(53:24):
going.
Nobody should ever be treatedthat way, for who they are no,
ever.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
No, no, especially if you're just hanging out and
just doing your own thing.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
He's just hanging out at a bar that he always went to
drinking a hiney.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Completely unjustified Not doing anything.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
These fuckers approached him to take something
from him and he got murderedfor it.
Yeah, and you're kind ofkilling me softly over that I
know I'm like, I'm still justyou really are Damn.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I know Like, I'm, like, I'm still just you really
are Damn.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
So that concludes our story of Matt Shepard, but that
does not conclude the legacyand the impact that what
happened to him has had on thisworld and on the LGBTQ community
.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Could have brought so much more to the world.
Oh yeah, just a young child,absolutely, absolutely, coming
into his own.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
But his family is fighting the fight for him.
I mean, that just makes mehappy inside, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
How in the hell do I do this?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Do not, do not applaud me.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
I don't know how to do it, but you did a great story
, lindsay.
How do you do this Well?
I mean, this is a thing thatI've been doing on every podcast
.
What I'm applauding now is theawareness.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
What Awareness.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
That we're sharing.
Yes, I'm not applaudinganything about the horrific ass
shit that happened.
I'm applauding the awarenessthat we can spread toward people
just being open-minded and letpeople be people.
We're just human beings.
Dude, this one was hard for me.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I thought maybe I had cried enough through the week
that it wouldn't happen.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
And when you do that and I look over at you- and you
look at me.
Oh my God, and I look at himand then we leave and he looks
at me.
You're killing me Softly withyour All right, Jesse.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
What band are you going to plug for us today?
I'm allowed to play music.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yes, I am allowed to play music.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
You are.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
This is like the light part of it.
I mean, I don't.
The song is called ADisappointment and this was a
disappointment of humanity, sonot matthew but hey fans, irish
sunglasses irish sunglasses youknow this shit's gonna be fire,

(55:48):
dude.
You know it's gonna be fire, soI want you guys to check out
irish sunglasses.
This song is calleddisappointment, so I'm gonna
fire this thing off, you guysready.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Be alive, be alive.
Let it ride you down the line.
Fly to your home, send back towhere you died.

(56:22):
Fly to your dreams.
Be positive for the future.
Don't forget the contract.
Take the years that I've beenreading and I won't take such a
price.
Be alive, be alive.
Be alive, be gone, be gone.
Become a ghost Like anavalanche.

(56:48):
I'm in the ocean and I thoughtI could do it.
Tell me who you really are.
I play these games so close andyet so far.
You're like magic to me.

(57:16):
I'm sorry.
Your sunshine is a perfect.
It lies in the sky.
It lies Perfect occasion toleave the dance.
Tell you, I got the notion ofwhat the world is like.

(57:37):
I don't care no more.
You and I are bullshit.
You're such a disappointment.
You're into the sky.
Holy shit, lindsay, that wassome good punk I love it From

(58:19):
Wisconsin.
Love it.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Dude.
Wisconsin Check them out, checkthem out, irish sunglasses.
And that was more thaneverything I could imagine just
from the name.
It was just even more.
It was like yes, yes, yes, yes,yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes, yes.
Really cool very cool checkthem out check them out.
I was over here bopping andtrying to find them on instagram

(58:45):
so we can see where they werefrom, so we can follow them
stuff and absolutely yeah, Ifind so many cool bands out
there and I just love it.
I love it.
This is this is what I thriveto do.
It's just like a reset of um,everything you know you can.
You can mess me up over herewith your stories, and then I
get a cool, bad.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yeah, this one was rough it was rough very, very
rough.
Really damn, lindsey I know sowe're gonna have one more l
story for Pride Month, and thenJuly is going to be all about
Jonestown.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
We're going to Jonestown in July Going to
Jonestown in July I might knowsome shit about that one.
Lindsay, I know we're goingagainst the grain over here.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
But holy shit, I bet you're going to flip me so much?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
I bet you don't know a lot of the details.
Don't tell me I bet you don'tknow a lot of the details that I
do, I'm not going to, I'm not.
It's going to be three or fourparts so.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Okay, so we're going to Jonestown in July.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Jonestown in July.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
But next week is going to be another fucked up
story about something that tiesinto the month's pride stuff.
You really fucking me up overhere, man.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I know I'm so sorry.
Jonestown's going to fuck me uptoo.
I brought you awareness, Did Inot?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
We found another foundation.
It's a constant.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
We found another foundation that we can plug in
our show notes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Yeah, well, yeah, and don't forget the one I always
put in our show notes as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Absolutely.
The West Memphis Three.
So yeah, that's going to be aconstant plug until we get some
justice.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Up to our ability.
We're always going to supporteverybody.
I mean, we're just two peopleand we're going to do the best
we can and we're going to shareand support everything that we
can.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
And you can share and support us by following, liking
, sharing.
So listen, if you guys give usa five-star rating on whatever
platform you listen to us on,that helps us get into the
algorithm.
Oh, lindsey's going for thealgorithm, I'm going for the
algorithm and, of course, followus, like, share.
We know you guys are out therelistening.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Support us by just giving the little clicks, the
little likes.
And we haven't broke 100 on ourCorpsewood Manor, our first one
dude, check out CorpsewoodManor, if you hear this yes, yes
, yes, I've been, and I've beensharing all of our episodes on
my personal social, which isLindsay Stambaugh, on Facebook.
If you want to follow me, youcan.
Isn't that crazy?

(01:01:10):
You like?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
follow Jessie everybody does content and
things like that, and they'relike I'm looking for my five
million, my five millionsubscriber, my whatever.
We're just looking for ahundred on our first episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
We don't want a lot drink about something dot site.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
We put a lot into this and we just want to make it
worth it you know, so help usget into that algorithm we love
you guys.
Well, the worth it is.
I see it, we see it every week.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
We really do, thank you so much, oh, absolutely,
thank you so much, and I meanjust you know you just thank you
to everyone that's everlistened to lindsey's voice.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Don't worry about mine.
Thank you so much, and I justwanted to say thank you, and I
also wanted to say thank you and, and, and we want to say again
thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
You to Jenny Hayes for conversing with us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Haynes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
I don't know why.
I want to say Haynes, haynes,yeah, we love you so much and we
hope we give you, we want tosend you all the positive vibes
and happiness for the rest ofyour life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Center of Care Package.
And there was a contest that Idid on one of my previous
podcasts, remember that Saidthat I was going to send
somebody some merch if theyfigured out my little joke in
one of our podcasts.
So if you find that joke andyou find that I had said that,
hit me up and I will send yousomething.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
You don't even remember what episode it was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I don't, but we got a little merch store at
drinkaboutsomethingsite.
A spread shirt.
But yeah, if you go todrinkaboutsomethingsite At
Spreadshirt.
But yeah, if you go todrinkaboutsomethingsite, it'll
take you to a link atSpreadshirt and you can buy
whatever you like Some cool shit, and I've sent some stuff out
to some people.
Some people have bought somestuff.
We got merch, we got cool stuff.
Just follow us and have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
We love you.
We love you and let us knowthat you're having a good time
listening.
We're enjoying putting thisinformation out, which a lot of
it is already out there, but Ienjoy personally hearing
different opinions and views oncertain cases.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
You got me constantly coming up with cool stuff that
nobody's done before as well.
You know.
Two blocks away from us, youknow, I know Things like that.
Oh guess who else just hit?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
me up.
Unfortunately, we live in agood old boy town, so
information on our cases in thistown are hard to find.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Yeah, Miss Becky Sandoz from Sister Sandoz
Remember that band?
Yeah, she just sent me somestuff and said I got everything
ready.
Dude, we need to do a pod onthis stuff.
That happened in Georgia?

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Yes, okay no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
And then we got some native American stuff coming up
in November, so stay tuned Right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Yes, we hope you keep listening.
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Celebrity like native American celebrity.
He's done music for like moviesand all kind of cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
So that's some cool stuff.
I'm excited for that Cool stuffyeah, al Santos.
Stick with us guys.
Yeah, we're going to keep ongetting better.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
And we will see you guys next Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Yes, we love you so much.
Bye.