EPISODE 39: And the Road to Jonestown Begins JIM JONES PART 2

Before Jonestown became synonymous with mass tragedy, Jim Jones established himself as a champion for racial equality in 1950s Indianapolis. His People's Temple created nursing homes for neglected elderly Black residents, operated a Free Cafe feeding thousands weekly, and successfully integrated hospitals and businesses in a deeply segregated city. These weren't empty gestures – historical records confirm Jones genuinely improved racial conditions in Indianapolis while building a devoted following.

Join us as we explore how legitimate social activism transformed into destructive cult dynamics – a cautionary tale about charismatic authority and institutional abuse that feels eerily relevant today. Listen now to understand the warning signs that preceded one of history's most devastating cult tragedies.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Jesse, Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
And Hello Cindy.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Woo Woo.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Woo Bestie has returned for a sit-in recording.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of Jim Jones, part Deux.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
So we didn't run her away.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
We didn't.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Holy shit, If Lindsay has not run me away yet she
will never.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
No, it's been 19, almost 20 years.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's been 20 years.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Or I should have said I haven't chased you away.
We're equally toxic.
Take me away.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
So we're doing some cool-ass shit.
Dude, this is like a wholehuckle-buck of part of my
root-a-marod Of fuckery.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
First of all, what are you drinking today?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Oh me, yeah, Dude, like okay, I got Crown Mm-hmm
Crown, apple Mm-hmm Cosmicfucking vibe on this over here
Celsius.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Dude, I'm geeking.
Dude, I'm geeking, I feel you.
So I mixed Vista Bay pineapplewith some of Cindy's pineapple
rum and some strawberrypineapple.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Cindy is drinking.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I am Energy.
What's Cindy?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
drinking Malibu and Sprite.
Malibu and Sprite With a littlebit of this-boo-ka-choo.
Like I feel like we should dothis shit in autotune, Like the
whole time.
We should do the sing-songautotune.
Jim Jones part fucking two Dude, I'm down, Dude, we should.
How?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
do I sound in my autotune yet?
Well, first, what.
Go ahead and roll our intro.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Oh shit, we're going to party here.
Happy Friday everybody, becauseit's going down.
Going down, gen ZChestertonvilleville.
Yeah, oh, we're bumping.
Let me crank that down just alittle bit.
Lindsay, I feel like we blowedup some stereo, some speakers.

(02:25):
Oh, what are you doing whenthis song is going on?
I swear to God, I explained myversion last weekend.
What are y'all thinking, dude?
What kind of party are you atwhen this song's bumping?
Tell me.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
It's kind of a disco, like you said.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's a disco.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's a good disco.
It is yeah.
Yeah, it's a good disco.
It is yeah, I love it.
Yes, this song is in my DNADude, I love it.
What?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
No, I'm just saying dude, I'm allowed to have, like
it's in your DNA, at 40.
How old are you?
43?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I've adapted, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
It's a good.
It's a good little intro.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, I feel like seeing how you're fixing to hit
me was something that I have tocome up with, which I actually
already put it on here.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
I've seen that.
What made you feel old thisweek?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Oh, my God, Lindsay.
So I wrote down this timegenerations.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I see that.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.
So if you think aboutgenerations and how they live
their life and how old we are,when we look at the different
generational breaks andeverything, you're just like
dude.
They're so different, oh yeah,and some of them are in a cool
way, so that's a good thing.
But when you look back, I startI'm starting to feel like an

(03:39):
old boomer or some shit, sittingback and watching all these
kids grow up and that kind ofmade me feel old.
Yeah, but some of them actuallyact old yeah.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
So that was my thing.
It was just like I'm sittingback and I'm watching all these
kids grow up and there's liketwo, three now generations above
us.
So I think we're all prettymuch millennials here.
Yeah, Pretty much.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well, she's Gen X.
Oh, we're all pretty muchmillennials here, yeah.
Pretty much.
Well, she's Gen X.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh, yeah, well, we're elder millennials, yeah, we're
elder millennials.
When you say elder millennials,you're allowed to go like kind
of hold your pinky out a littlebit.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Do we have a monocle?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, Because every elder millennial feels like
they're not quite Gen X butthey're not millennial, right.
So but like, but like, so thatI guess would be my what makes
me feel old with you two, justnow we're millennials and you're
Gen X bitch.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Oh, yeah, so she is a baby Gen X and we are elder
millennials, so generations,just like I was talking about,
like okay, how kids?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
nowadays they'll say like 1,559, you know, let's say
1,559, you know 1,559, whateverthey sound, every part of just
the numbers.
I'm like what?
And it was true because I'mhearing them on the phone,
because part of my job is likenumbers and stuff, and so it's
just like, why don't you justsay 1500 or 15,000, you know

(04:58):
whatever?
So I'm just like, dude, justsay the quicker part of it, you
don't have to do this wholeblocks of numbers thing.
I guess maybe that's agenerational thing for sure,
right?

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, so that makes me feel old.
We millennial Gen X, we say1500, 1600, 1629.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Gen Z and younger will say 1,629.
And I'm like, why did you justwaste all those words?

Speaker 2 (05:30):
And, by the way, like , when you get into like way
bigger numbers, it's going to beeven like stupider.
So, like kids that are going tobe doing bigger numbers, it's
going to be way crazier.
I mean, what the fuck do you doif you're like a One billion
Trillion.
Gazillion Fillion Blah, blah,blah, shabba-do-ba-do,
shabba-do-ba-do yes.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
We're referencing Dr Evil there.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Dr Evil.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
So, if you listeners are new here, what we do is we
have a couple drinks and we talkabout true crime.
Well, I talk about true crimeto Jesse, but Cindy's here, so
I'm talking about true crimewith both of you guys tonight.
Both are very familiar withthis case particularly, but they

(06:19):
don't know some of the thejuice, the juice, the salad.
The crazy details.
The juice salad.
The juice, the salad.
The crazy details, the juicesalad, the juice, ew, I don't
like the sound of that Juicesalad.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yummy, yummy.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
So yeah, but then at the end of the episode Jesse
will plug a band that he hassought out and got permission to
play from the Artists, and weusually dig them mucho.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Last weekend was fire .

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, I'm still on that craze.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh, my God Ignocent, and they're coming to Florida.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
We're hoping that that's how you pronounce it, but
we're not 100% sure.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
We love you guys, though I've listened to you guys
all day today.
They're coming to Florida, socheck them out.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Three different spots in Florida, so check them out.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
They're going to be in three different spots in
Florida, so come and check themout.
Follow Ignocent.
They're amazing.
And a little update on somebodywho lives in Australia.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yes, jenny Haynes.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes, she loves the package.
We sent her that we covered nottoo long ago.
Yes, we sent her some merch.
She reached out to us and saidour podcast was lovely yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
It was my first package I ever sent to Australia
.
It was so cool.
We sent her some merch andshe's like thank you so much.
I was like thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
You're lovely, I know , yeah, that's pretty cool.
I know.
I'm too nervous oh my god, didI do a good job?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't know so if you're in Florida area, do check
out Ignocent, and check out theother pods too.
The.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Monster who Made Me was the song that we featured
last week, but they also do acover of Radio Gaga by Queen,
and I was geeking, it made myday.
It made my day.
It was like.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Trolstice all over again.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, trolstice, all over again, yes, trolstice.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
She was geeking.
She was geeking.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
All right so.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
We've covered what made us feel old right, or was
that on the blip recording?

Speaker 2 (08:17):
No, we covered it.
We were having some technicaldifficulties at first, but we're
good.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay so, but we're good.
Okay so, last week we talkedabout Jim Jones' upbringing, his
marriage to Marceline and hisstart of community unity, and
then he went on to establish thePeople's Temple.
And don't forget Jimbo.
Oh yes, jim Jones was Jimbo,jimbo.
It was the circle, circle oflife, circle of life, circle of

(08:47):
life.
and then, you know, graffiticomes out with the thing hits
him with a stick now Jim Joneswas compassionate about making
the black community better andfighting for their rights of
equality.
Now, jim, he really didn't liketo go to meetings where he
wasn't the main attraction,because you know, he's Jim, he's

(09:08):
like it's all about me.
So he sent Marceline out totake notes during city meetings
and school administrativemeetings.
See, her father, mr Baldwin,had been a former city council
member, so she was familiar withthat territory.
So she found the right peopleto talk to to make changes that

(09:31):
they you know as a whole, as asa unity, as a temple, they
wanted to make.
She would share everything shelearned with Jim and then moves
were made.
They were, they were doing shit.
Now he got the credit but shedidn't mind.
You know, back in those days itwas all about the husbands.
You know, fuck women, butwhatever.

(09:53):
A lot of the People's Templemembers were elderly black women
who could no longer care forthemselves and were put into
homes, low-budget homes.
So the Joneses sought out how toreceive state certification to
make their own home into anelder facility and they would
receive grants to maintain it.

(10:13):
And from what I heard from I'mlistening to two books
simultaneously.
I'm listening to Road toJonestown and Raven and both are
very informational.
One is more factual and one ismore fun, and I will tell the

(10:34):
tea about both on episode four.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
See, and that's why I like the last episode, I was
halfway as Jones team team Jim.
I mean, jim Jones is ahumanitarian.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
He does wonderful things.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I was kind of teaming there that you cannot
deny.
I mean, I wasn't part of hiscool-ass basketball team.
I mean, I would have rode thatshit.
That would have been cool.
I know you ain't before team,but we're fucking riding, bro.
It was a baseball team.
It was a baseball team.
Yeah, I could have swore yousaid basketball last time.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
No, it was baseball.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh baseball.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know what I don't remember?
I would have to look at mynotes.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, if it was baseball we'd be like the
Savannah Bananas up in thatbeach.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh yeah, with Jim Jones.
Please take me to a SavannahBananas game.
Oh my.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
God In the name of Jesus.
With all the bananas hangingout, I mean fucking great dude,
fucking great.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
So you know, the People's Temple nursing home was
legit and they would end uptaking over management over
several nursing homes over thenext few years and this would
provide jobs for several peoplein the congregation.
You know, because he's buildinga congregation, he's building a
community.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Still on unity community over here.
I'm still on team, I'm cool,okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
So Jim would also have 15 minute segments on a
radio show every day where hewould do a little preaching.
He would encourage people tojoin his cause.
He would tell people where theycould donate food and clothing
and other items that were neededfor the community.
He was helping all of ourcommunity team Jimmy.

(12:13):
And along the way he gained anassociate pastor named Archie
Iams who was really impressedwith what Jim Jones was doing
for the black community.
He was black himself and heswore I mean for years that Jim
Jones had healed his child's earproblem.
Now it is reported by othersources that the child's ear

(12:39):
problem was probably like amisdiagnosed problem and that
kind of went away on its ownLike an ear infection or
something?
Yes, but according to Archie,who will be a longtime follower.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Jesus Jones.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Jesus Jones.
Yes, jim Jones made that happen.
He held his child.
So, archie, would you know hewould, he'll be with Jim for a
very long time.
So the people's temple wouldopen a restaurant called the
Free Cafe, where you, where thehungry, could come and eat, and
this cafe would end up feedingabout 2,800 people weekly.

(13:15):
Whoa, like it started.
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
So they started out with like acouple dozen, then it was a
hundred, and then in the nextyear, everybody in the club
getting tipsy a hundred wereeating at the free cafe and you
can also pick out some freeclothing that had been donated

(13:35):
at you know cause.
Like I said, he was on the showevery day 15 minutes.
Hallelujah, praise Jesus.
This is where you can donateblah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
megan, and Happy Help the cause.
Yeah, right.
Then a huge youth outreach wasformed, including a children's
choir and a dance program,because who doesn't love dance
program?
Like, I'm all about the dance,I'm on the dance side of TikTok.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
I mean, I'm all about that bass.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
About that bass, no trouble.
But seriously like if a youthprogram.
Back in the day, when I wasreligious, they had a dance
program.
I was going to that service.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
And I'm over here talking about that.
Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
We already had our Black Eyed Peas day.
Oh, okay, a long time ago.
No, no, friday last week, oh,every day is.
Black Ey.
So city and county officialsbegan attending the People's
Temple as well.
Jim Jones and the People'sTemple had become very popular

(14:37):
in Indianapolis.
Like they were making headlinesin the newspaper, they were
doing the thing.
Then Jim would meet a man thatwould influence him even more.
Oh, and this man's name wasFather Divine.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Divine, divine oh.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Now I eventually want to have a whole deep dive into
this guy and his own cult.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
This drink is divine.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Mine is too.
It's the father of mine.
So Father Divine had his owncult.
It's so divine.
Will you listen, sir?

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I'm trying to tell you about another cult that
we're going to talk about later,but to summarize really quickly
, father Divine said that he wasGod and his father has believed
him.
What, okay?
And he legally changed his nameto Jealous Divine, because God
is a jealous God, you know,jealous, it says it in the Bible

(15:30):
.
And he also believed insocialism and in the beginning
most he also believed insocialism and in the beginning
most of his followers were blackwomen.
Now, by the time Jim met FatherDivine, he was a very rich man,
he had nice things and he had aharem of women that lived with
him and his wife and they had acommune in Philadelphia Whoa.

(15:51):
Maybe we can find old Divine'sstomping grounds In Philly when
we go to in Philadelphia.
Whoa, Maybe we can find oldDivine's stomping grounds.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
In Philly when we go to.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Philly Now, when his wife passed away because, like I
said, we're going to do a deepdive into this cult too later on
oh, but it started like in theearly 1900s.
So when his wife passed away,he claimed that her spirit had
jumped into a 21 year old woman.

(16:18):
Imagine that.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Well, he better get that right, he better jump on
that.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
His wife.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's divine.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
His first wife was a black woman.
Now her spirit jumped into this21 year old white woman.
Oh and now she was the newMother Divine, and most of his
sermons would center aroundreincarnation.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yes, he had it figured out Now.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Jim liked Father Divine's style and would have
his congregation soon afteraddress him as father and
Marceline as mother.
And this will continue until itdiscontinues.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
The continuation of the discontinuation.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
So Jim even started dressing a little more fancy and
he would wear his hairdifferent.
Fancy and he would wear hishair different.
Now, prior to his, um, absoluteobsession with father, divine
him, you know, they, they didthe whole socialist thing.
They, they, they dresssecondhand, they bought
secondhand, everythingsecondhand.
But then he saw this guy whowas like you know been in a

(17:29):
mansion and had some swag andhe's like oh father, divine
mansion, and had some swag.
And he's like oh, father Divine,that's cool.
Now.
Jim hoped to one day acquireFather Divine's followers when
he passed, even though FatherDivine said that he was immortal
.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh, Is he going to turn into like a 21 year old
white woman too?
That'd be great Dude.
If that's the case, I'm dyingtoday now father.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Divine's full name was reverend major jealous
divine fuck's sake so it wasself-proclaimed.
It was hold on, let me where'srmj rmj divine was what his, his
documents, the good reverend,the good reverend and his

(18:17):
congregation was called thepeace movement.
now, father to my divine fatherdivine had many enemies at this
point because the peace movementhad been around for many years
and he would openly verbally,attack his enemies, creating
fear in his congregation to bemore loyal to him.
Now, jim really didn't have anyenemies at this point except

(18:42):
for, like, the government andcapitalism.
So those would be his enemiesthat he would attack in his
sermons and the black community.
They were they were all toofamiliar with that, you know
very, very oppressed.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Looking for a common.
This was still the 50s.
They were just looking for abetter way.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, so Satan was the common enemy in all churches
, but in the people's templeSatan was the government.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, I feel like Satan is just motivation toward
your whole fucking drive towardcontrolling people.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, you know, but I'm just saying Satan's,
whatever you make it, at thispoint we're going to use that
and pass the plate, come on.
But I mean, jim Jones wasmaking many moves to improve the
quality of life in thiscommunity and that was the
baddest fact.
He preached like a black manand he got shit done like a
white man.
That's, I mean, that's how hegot, that's how he got, I get it

(19:33):
, I get it.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Cindy's over there.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
She's like crisscross applesauce.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
We're by the campfire , we're cooking s'mores together
.
She's like I'm going to bequiet over here, just like let
Lindsay spill.
Dude, lindsay's spilling, I'mjust listening.
Oh, this divine shit over here.
I swear to God, lynette.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Jim's mom.
She moved to Indianapolis withJim and was like, hey, my vision
came true.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Is he still Jimmy, right?

Speaker 1 (19:58):
now my boy became I mean to Lynette.
He's always Jimba.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Jimba forever.
Yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
But, like you know, she said, my boy is a great man.
My vision came true, yeah he'sa great leader.
But Jim was like you know whatyou still got to contribute to
the household.
So she became a guard at awomen's prison.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
So not leading you to the water, but maybe to the
flavor aid, I mean Kool-Aid.
I just have to say so back inthe 50s he was doing all this
help but still made his mom work.
Yeah, okay, yeah, oh.
She was coddling him Like hecould do no wrong.
Little Jimba over here can dono wrong.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Mm-mm.
Yeah, he's a great man.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, he'd steal from stores and she'd come back and
pay for it and be like you'reokay, baby.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Mm-hmm, you're okay.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
She was proud of his audacity With a Benson and
Hedges hanging out in the mouththe whole time.
Ain't I'm going over here,jimbo, over here.
That was really fucking.
I can picture this dude.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Now I mentioned in the last episode that Jim and
Marceline had adopted a littlegirl named Agnes, but that
wasn't enough.
She grew to be quite the snarkyand problematic little girl,
and Jim wanted a happy rainbowfamily with racial harmony.
So they wanted to adopt a blackchild child.

(21:18):
But they had some issues withthat.
I guess it wasn't really uh,indiana really didn't wasn't
cool with that.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
They were like no, oh , they wouldn't want to fill out
that paperwork, no, so theyadopted a korean boy named lou
and a korean girl namedstephanie, from california.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
And then Marceline found out that she was pregnant.
He said last night he's likethat motherfucker reproduced.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, yes, he did.
He's going to have some kids.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
So in May they're going to have kids Shit.
In May 1959, Jones took thechurch kids to the Cincinnati
Zoo and unfortunately, this isgoing to get really sad for a
minute.
Oh shit, Jones took the churchkids to the Cincinnati Zoo and
unfortunately, this is going toget really sad for a minute.
Oh shit, there was a storm andthe vehicle that Stephanie was
in was struck by a drunk driverand she was killed instantly.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
What yes?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Right off rip and Stephanie, since she was Korean,
wasn't allowed to be buriednext to the white folks.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, fuck's sake, yeah, yeah I know, since she was
.
Korean wasn't allowed to beburied next to the white folks.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, fuck's sake, yeah, yeah, I know that is so
sad.
Her body had to be prepared forburial by a black man and
buried in a black cemetery,which I mean, jim really didn't
you know attest to, or he didn't, what's the word?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
He didn't protest to it.
He didn't protest to it, so, orhe didn't um, what's the word?
Protest to it?
So I mean that's why I was likehe's used to helping that
community right and he'sinvolved in that that's why I
was like kind of team team jimon that, you know, because he
was pushing for equality, he waspushing for all this stuff.
And then let lindsey spill it.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
I mean because this damn so three weeks later, after
stephanie passed away, uh,stephen jones was born and he
they spelled it stephen with anan in honor of stephanie.
So you know, stephen is usuallyian, but they did and oh, okay
yeah, okay.

(23:08):
So jones found out thatstephanie had a little sister
named a Boki, that Marceline hadseen in a vision, and adopted
her right away.
Now, whether this vision wastrue, we don't know, but they
did adopt Stephanie.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
It was a divine intuition.
Yes, well, they renamed herSuzanne, if you had a vision
about this little girl namedwhat she was named named a bogey
.
Yeah, I was trying to interrupther the whole time.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm going to punch you in the face.
Well then, in 1961, theyadopted a black infant, and they
would name him James WarrenJones Jr.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Doesn't that just paint a beautiful picture?
Yeah, that's what I was fixingto say.
Doesn't that paint a beautifulpicture.
I was letting Cindy plug in.
I was like they're painting apicture over here.
Oh, pretty little rainbows,pretty little trees.
Yes, beautiful, little, happylittle His biological son is
Steven.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
His adopted son is Jim Jesus.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
But it's beautiful, it's divine.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
So now Jim's family is complete, he has a successful
congregation, he's making movesin the black community, he's
managing nursing homes, youthoutreach and is still on the
revival circuit.
And now he needs a schedulemanager.
Okay, he met a woman at arevival in ohio named patty
cartnell and she's gonna be tillthe end, okay, okay.

(24:43):
So, uh, patty was obsessed withthe apocalypse and had declared
j Jones as the prophet.
Not a prophet, he's the prophet.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Whoa.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
And she, the second coming of Jesus.
Yeah, so he was she.
He, he was the prophet that shehad been looking for All right,
yeah.
So he recruited her as one ofhis scheduling coordinators.
Then she became his eyes andears, seeking out all the

(25:19):
information that she could find,so Jim could perform his
miracles and his prophecies theeyes and ears of Jesus, yes, the
eyes and ears of Jesus Jones.
Okay.
So now he didn't have to mingleanymore.
Patty took care of that, andthen he joined forces with
another church called theDisciples of Christ, who also
had the same ideas of socialismand racial equality.

(25:40):
So now we got a network goinghere, ok.
The only stipulation was thatJim had to get his college
degree as a pastor.
I didn't know that that was arequirement.
I thought that was a thing thatyou could go do.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Well, if you do that, it's tax-free too.
Really Well, we can run thatcollege under religion and we
can write that shit off andcollect it all up.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, I'm going to inform you guys.
I'm going to go enroll inclasses on Monday, okay, fall
semester.
Pastor Lindsey, oh Divine, justkidding, I'd rather pastor
Lindsay, oh divine divine, justkidding.
I'd rather be drawn andquartered, okay, I had a dream
about this one time.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
I had a dream about this so.
I'm just trying to picture whatkind of dream I had.
Hang on, give me a moment.
I can't tell you what kind ofdream I had.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Well, it was very moist, oh gosh yeah, about me
being a pastor no, I haddiarrhea.
Keep on going, sorry what'sthat got to do with anything
we're talking about here, sir?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
the dream about you becoming a divine human being.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Like okay, just like, just mother divine's spirit
jumped into mine and now You'renot 21.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Shut up.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
But let's do the math , okay.
So this is in the 50s.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Oh, calculators out, everybody, break out your
calculators.
Calculus Calculators eliminateus.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
With our powers combined, I am the new mother of
mine at 42 years old.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Oh man, you got to wipe after this one.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
I am sweaty in here, man.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Oh man, it is.
I know what do we do.
It's moist in here.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Maybe we need to turn the air back up and it'll be
cold again.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Can we keep saying moist.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Okay, I'm sweaty, so yeah, I'm moist, so then.
So then Jim became director ofthe Indianapolis Human Relations
Committee.
Hell, yeah, yes.
And Jim would use this positionto encourage more racial
equality throughout Indianapolis, such as getting white-only

(27:48):
restaurants to also serve blackpatrons, and if they refused, he
would form protest.
But if they agreed, jim woulddrive up the business by
bringing in Temple members,that's some good shit.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
That's some good shit , right.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
So he'll bring in Temple members during slow hours
so that the regulars who willget offended won't get affected,
and he's driving up thebusiness Like just continuously.
Yeah, like I said, he won't getaffected and he's driving up
the business like justcontinuously.
Yeah, like I said, he had thepotential to be a great dude
yeah, it's set it up.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
You have set up something.
You keep riding that wave andkeep doing great, but I mean,
there's some shady behind allthis already still, but like oh
yeah, I mean, we're alreadyfaking miracles, we're already
faking, you know, faith healingdivinity we're already faking.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Um yeah, we're already faking.
You know, faith healingDivinity.
We're already faking.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, you're shitting on a religion at the same time.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Well, jim, he goes into a little breakdown.
Okay, right, he gets admittedinto the hospital for some
stomach ulcers because he'sunder a lot of stress.
Okay, oh God, and I mean hereally is.
He's got a lot under his thumbright now.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Well, being a divine fucking figure, I would be under
the stress of the world rightnow.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
No, honestly, he's management over all these
elderly homes now.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh yeah, dude, don't sleep.
He's not sleeping, no sleep.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
And he learned how to live with that a long time ago.
But even if you're used to it,your body is going to come back
on you.
So he gets admitted into thehospital with some stomach
ulcers and he is put on a wingfor white patients, only because

(29:25):
we're still in the 50s.
Ok, now he said with bleedingulcers that he would only stay
in that hospital if there wasimmediate integration, immediate
Should have been, I mean.
And it actually happened.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Good, good.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Actually happened.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Make it moves.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
So we're we're in six .
We're in 61 right now.
I'm sorry we're not in the 50.
So by the end of 61, okay.
Indianapolis was a lot moreintegrated than it had been 12
months prior, and Jim Jones wasthe main one responsible for
this.
I mean, this is legit.
This is not speculation.
This is 100% true.
Now, being the leader that hewas, he did have to have a team

(30:05):
to help him out, but he was acontrol freak and still made
sure that he was very muchinvolved in all of his
accomplishments, and this meantvery long days, very long nights
and not that much sleep, whichI just said yeah, wide open so
lack of sleep and start to fuckwith you mentally and he started

(30:25):
getting really paranoid.
and he was paranoid that itwould all fall apart and if
anyone left his congregation hetook it real personally and I
already talked about that in thelast episode.
He was trying to kill hislittle nephew in a fucking with
a car.
He tried to adopt his nephew.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yes, Run that fucker over Right so recap.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
And for Cindy, real quick.
He wanted to adopt his nephewWell, it was Marceline's nephew
His mother had.
You know, she had been kind ofa promiscuous woman and Jim was
like I want to take you on, Iwant to take care of you and
Ronnie.
He just wanted to be back homewith his mom and his brothers.
Yeah, Jim didn't like that shitand literally tried to run him
over.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I'm going to take you up out.
I'll take you up out to ghetto,you ain't leaving me, you're
going, you're going down.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
That's crazy man, whoa.
And if you were a part of hiscongregation, of course you had
to practice a socialistlifestyle.
You couldn't be bourgeois?

Speaker 2 (31:24):
no, jim got that gangster as we call it these
days bougie yeah, once you'repart of that gang, you in blood
in blood out, blood out blood inwhatever.
Whatever you you know, jim inJim out, jim in Jim out.
So what's it all about?
Jim in Jim out, oh God.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
So if you saw anyone in the congregation acting
bougie you were you were toreport to jim and he would hold
corrective meetings on thesubject and any other behaviors
that needed correcting.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I remember some of this shit now, oh hold on hold
on.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
We're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
We're not there yet, oh we're gonna get into more of
that next episode.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh, this is where it starts okay, yes.
So that member of thecongregation that had been
reported would have to stand andbe criticized for that behavior
.
Now that goes right toHandmaid's Tale for me Her fault
.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Her fault, Her fault.
No, it kind of goes back toGame of Thrones over here.
Man with the shame, Shame.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh, yeah, either one, both.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Game of Handmaid's Tale.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
I'm trying to get him to watch it.
He hasn't watched it.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, we have a fourth guest.
He's being silent over here.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, silent participant, that's going to be
learning about Game of Thronesand Handmaid's Tale no he knows
came from.
You're kind of in the club.
He kind of looked like a nerdlike me.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
You're kind of in the club you watch Handmaid's Tale.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
You're all the way in .
You get a membership card.
Throwing Outlander in thereHell yeah, outlander was good
too.
He watched.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Outlander too.
Okay, he can get a membershipcard.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, he's on platform 9 and 3 quarters.
It's awesome.
Yeah, he's on platform nine andthree quarters.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
It's awesome.
Now some people would leave thecongregation because of this
practice.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
You better run.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
But, Jim yeah, Jim, would start harassing them
through letters, phone calls andhome visits Holy shit.
He would say it was God's willthat they stay a part of the
congregation.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Oh yeah, if you leave , you're going to hell either
way.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, you're going to hell.
And I mean, you're not, you'renot a humanitarian, you're.
You know, just yeah, yeah, yeah, he would play all those cards.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
He had a big ass deck , Jim with his deck.
Oh God what a big day.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
We're going to get more into Jim's deck in episode
three.
But we're not there yet.
Sir, Hold your tongue.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Oh well, okay fine.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
So and Jim would start reporting vandalism and
death threats to his home andhis family and even claiming
that his house was shot at and abullet was found.
But law enforcement wouldreport that the three dogs in
the home never barked when it'ssupposed to.
Perpetrator was near the homeand also the shot was coming
from the opposite direction.
Yeah, you know, it was supposedto be coming towards the home

(34:25):
but it was going outwards.
Yeah, I guess Jim didn't thinkthat through.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I'm just being quiet because you're doing all these
hand signals over here and areyou throwing up gang signs at me
?
No, okay but.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Jim.
He let his congregation knowabout this alleged threatening
activity that was happening tohim and told the church that it
was all because of what he wastrying to do for them and the
community and he was alivebecause God was protecting him.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
So in this moment you can picture Jim Jones's
charisma and how he would be.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, he's not into the glasses yet, so take the
glasses off.
I know that's what you'repicturing.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Well, no, I'm just saying, like, if he's trying to
sell this bullet thing and he'stelling all these divine-ass
things, how loud and wrong isthis, son of a bitch?
Well?
I'm going to find some of therecordings and we're going to
play them in the next twoepisodes so we're going to hear
some of his charismatic oh, youguys, better fucking follow that

(35:21):
shit, because I rememberhearing some of that.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Make sure you keep going with us okay, yes, oh man
so now, like father divine, healso started talking about
reincarnation as well, and hisclose followers that had been
with him had also been with himin a previous life.
Oh, okay now he stated thatonce upon a time he had been
buddha and in a a previous life,one of his followers, joe

(35:46):
phillips.
He had been a shoka, which islike, I guess, second in command
to buddha, an emperor, he wasan emperor.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Oh okay, he was an emperor.
I mean, with all this, I forgotright now that he was an
emperor.
I mean, with all this FatherDivine thing, I feel like we're
just talking about Everclear.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Well, Father Divine is going to come up some more
later on Instead of sayingFather Divine, I'm like.
Father Divine, it's a FatherDivine.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I've been, I mean.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Is that what you're saying Every time you?

Speaker 2 (36:11):
say father divine.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I'm like dude do you want me to say jealous, divine?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
No, but we seen Everclear one time and it was
just such a great thing, thankyou Twice now, but the father's
day the father's day thing youtook me to in Ocala.
Oh, we're bumping dude.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
We're bumping.
She's like bitch.
Do you want to take Jesse tothis concert?

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I'm like bitch.
Yes, so this is full circle.
It's a socle, it's a socle,it's a socle.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
How many years ago was that?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Oh my God, no, it was longer than that, because Silas
is a baby, eve Six and all thejust Soul Asylum.
Oh man, it was a great show, itwas a great day, father Divine.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Father divine, we did get poured on.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
But it cleared up and we had a great time.
We had a great day.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, I think Jim Jones was there too, but I
wasn't sure.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
He was, he embodied art to sing Father divine.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yes, we heard it one time.
Where have you been?
I swear we heard it, ithappened.
And if it didn't happen, thenyou just don't believe it
happened.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
And if it didn't happen, then you just don't
believe.
Now he starts claiming thathe's having visions that America
would soon be under nuclearattack.
You know that old chestnut Imean?
People were already living thisfear since 1955.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Oh, we're in Cold War time, right?
Yeah, oh yeah, so he ran withthat shit.
Yeah, get two bunkers.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Some people were definitely already prepared for
this, like they had bunkers andbasements set up for such
attacks.
So Jim was just going to keepthe sphere going and you know
you got to keep them seatsfilled.
Keep the offering plate going.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, it's a theme park, Lindsay it is.
I mean it is absolutely.
Walt Disney of this son of abitch.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
I was going to say he was the biggest roller coaster.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
The biggest roller coaster.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, and where was I ?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Don't take pictures at the end, because you ain't
going to like how I'm looking,because I'm scared as shit right
now.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Now he would say that the attack would be on the 16th
of some month and of some year,wasn't sure, in some state.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
In some city, in some dude's basement, wasn't sure.
In some state, in some city, insome dude's basement, wasn't
really sure when.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
But the time would definitely be 309.
So it was time to find a placeto move his congregation that
would be safe from attacks,because Chicago would be one of
these major cities that would beattacked and the fallout from
that attack would level outIndianapolis, which is where
they were.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Did he just forget the whole eight, six, seven,
five?

Speaker 1 (38:49):
part of that.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Oh man, that was just .
You got his number.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
That's a Lake city number.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
I know, I think his name is Mike.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
And I'm telling you, Charles Meade thought Jim Jones
was the Tits.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Oh, that happened in our town.
Oh, that happens so much in ourtown.
It sounds just like everythingI'm speaking, so if you want to
hear about Lake City, our localcult.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Except Charles Meade didn't give a fuck about the
black community.
But we did.
We did one on a local cult here.
Except Charles Meade didn'tgive a fuck about the black
community.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
But we did one on a local cult here in our town.
Yeah, you can really tell thatthis would have flown if he
would have just been a few yearsbefore that he did his shit
here, I'm telling you, charles.
Where was he doing that shit he?

Speaker 1 (39:37):
started in the 80s.
In Illinois, right Indiana, noit was Kentucky, it was Indiana.
No, it was Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
It was in Kentucky and then Indiana and then here
right, Because it was likeListen to our episode on
Hometown Cult.
Yeah yeah, hometown Cult Checkthat out, go back Check it out.
Just check it out, Fly Lindsey.
I'm sitting over here At thecampfire with Cindy crisscross
applesauce.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Are there, s'mores?
No I would love a s'more.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
All we got is liquor.
I know Cheers everybody.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Aw, she's awesome.
Okay, let me take a sip beforeI keep going, because I still
got a little bit more to go,guys.
So Jones left his congregationfor a while and he left some of
the associates in charge andwould seek out a new location
for the People's Temple and hisfollowers.
So he visited British Guyana onthe northeast coast of South

(40:29):
America as a potential new spot,but he left that one alone for
a while.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
We're only in the 60s right now.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
He peered into the future.
Yes, yes, remember Guyana, guys, oh my.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
God For those of you that already don't know the
future.
Yes, Remember Guyana, guys.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh my God For those of you that already don't know
the outcome.
Okay.
So then he went to Hawaii.
Now he tried to join a churchthere as like an associate to
like to affiliate the people'stemple with, but his application
was denied.
Then the family returned toIndianapolis for a while and he
reads Esquire magazine that had,and it had an article on um

(41:04):
nine places in the world to hide.
So it was talking about nineplaces in the world that would
survive a nuclear disaster.
So Brazil seemed to be the bestoption out of those nine that
he read about and that wouldisolate his followers to the
point where outside sourcescouldn't deter them from his

(41:25):
teachings and control.
So jim set his sights on bellahorizonte.
Okay, and he made thearrangements and the jones
family set out for south america, south america, south america,
south america, where that's theonly place that you said we
weren't, we didn't havelisteners yet we don't have
listeners in South America, soI'm like if I say it enough,

(41:45):
maybe it'll get into thealgorithm.
So we're on South America,we're in every continent, but
South America right now yeah,isn't that awesome, I know now,
russell Winberg was left incharge of preaching on the
Sunday services and Jim wasinformed that he had already
changed the nature of hissermons to more traditional

(42:06):
Bible teachings instead ofsocial issues, and that he was
inviting evangelists to comevisit.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
That was like completely the opposite of what
Jim wanted.
He turned the switch.
If I haven't- made it clear.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Jim did not preach from the Bible.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
He preached.
He was preaching socialism.
He was preaching socialism.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
He was.
He would talk about socialissues like he would literally
get a paper and he would talk tothe congregation about what was
going on in the world.
He would talk to them aboutwhat was happening in their
world and try to help solvetheir problems.
Like I said, he had goodintentions in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, we were kind of teaming there, it was pretty
much just like a socialgathering.
With a little bit of religion.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
With just a little bit of religion.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
And a lot of power.
Jim Jones was the major sourceof power there.
Right, Just insane.
I mean whoo, here he goes.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
So he was encouraged to come back right away, and
this set off Jim's paranoia bigtime.
Was Russell plotting to takeover his congregation?
Uh-oh.
But Jim couldn't return.
He had to keep the fear of thatnuclear attack going and he had
to find a place to isolate hisfollowers.
So the family rented a house inBella Horizonte.

(43:26):
I'm going to struggle with that, you're struggling dude, I'm
struggling with that.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
No, no, you're struggling.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
No, right now I'm drunk Bella Fonte.
That's what this podcast iscalled.
Drink about something.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
You're Bella Fonte Drunkenante.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
What the fuck?
All right, I'm gonna restartthat sentence.
So the family rented a house inbella horizonte and set out to
create a new home for hisfollowers and harry bella fonte
this seemed a lot more difficultthan they had imagined.
Everyone spoke portuguese andit was a lot more third world
than they had imagined.
Everyone spoke Portuguese andit was a lot more third world
than they had thought.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
You know, one time I hung out with Harry Belafonte's
grandson.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
You did.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Sorry to bring that back, it's okay.
Rip my daddy.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
But that was just.
That was a cool circle.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Hey, we gotta get today.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's three years, yeah, since we lost Pops.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah, I miss you, pop RP.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Late daddy.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
But Harry Belafonte Day, oh, that guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, his grandson came and bought some stuff of my
dad's whenever my dad passedaway.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Casino machines, slot machines, yeah that was really
cool.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Gave silas a sign baseball and shit, that was
really cool, because his nephewplays baseball in puerto rico, I
think it was.
It was really cool.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
It was like full circle cool belafonte edge all
the belafonte all the fonteswell, jim met an evangelist
there named ed momin and ed hadbeen in that area for about
three years now.
Ed told jim that he would helphim meet the right officials to
help out with his vision for hisfollowers.
Now Ed had a daughter namedBonnie, who was about 16 years

(45:08):
old and became very close withthe Jones and ended up moving in
with them, like she was like atranslator.
She got very close withMarceline and of course, jim had
to be weird and talk to herabout sex all the time.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
If you listen to episode one, he's obsessed.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Obsessed with talking about it.
Okay, and he even gave her acondom to carry in her purse.
Now the sex talk didn't botherher.
But what did bother her?
That there was no Bible in thehouse.
No one said grace before dinner.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Wow, wow.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
What a beautiful theme park.
You got going on here, bro.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
I mean, but like we talk about in part one, jim is
very much an atheist, so yeah,but he's under the guys.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah, well, he's got it planned out.
This is working for him.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
And we'll go on to talk about in future episodes
that he will talk about Godaround the right people Right.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
When it helps him and whatever he has going on.
Yeah for sure, Use that right.
Yeah, it's a benefit.
It's a part of his deck, Hisvery big deck that he likes to
play with.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
His well-endowed deck , yes, okay.
So Jim didn't get very far withthe city officials on trying to
set up a place for hisfollowers, and then he got more
word that his temple was introuble With his absence.
People were leaving in largenumbers.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I mean I would leave if my deck had a temple on it.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
And he was making less income and that meant not
enough money was coming in tosend to him and his family.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
So you know things aren't going good, yeah, the
plate ain't getting full.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
And Jack Beam, one of Jim's closest followers and
associate pastors, took hisfamily also to join Jim in Bella
Horizonte.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
And.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
I have to really focus on that word.
Now he gets there with his wifeand his children and he is
really out of his element.
It's like it was just a littletoo third world for him.
Okay, and it was also very hardto find employment in that area
, Unless you spoke Portugueseand Jack and his family were

(47:32):
like you know what, we're goingto head home because he grew
tired of freeloading, Basicallybecause they were living off the
church income.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Okay, you know they're there and his cup was
not runneth over right now.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
They're basically on a missions trip.
I'm doing air quotes.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
And they're using church funds to live.
But church funds were nowsmaller and smaller yeah.
Small Jim.
He was like you know what, I'mgoing to abandon this plan too.
And, Jim, he was like you knowwhat, I'm going to abandon this
plan too.
And in 1963, they packed up andthey moved to Rio de Janeiro,
which was like a whole new world.
This was a port city, yeah.

(48:11):
So they rented an apartmentnear the Coca Coca Cabana.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Ooh, yeah, that's hot I would like to go down there
and, you know, use some cardsfor my deck.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
You want to meet somebody named lola lola.
Yeah, so lola no I'm talkingabout.
Her name was lola.
She was oh my god, I forgot therest of the song cabana.
There was something about shewas in the cabana.
She was yeah, she was doing thesong In the cabana.
It was something about she wasin the cabana.
She was yeah, she was doing thething.
Okay In the cabana, okay AtCoca, yeah.
So down there Jim became anEnglish instructor and he was

(48:50):
starting to make some betterincome.
Now they would continue to helpthe needy where they could, but
the people's temple was now indebt and they couldn't keep
sending money to help Jim or theneedy or anybody.
And Jim claims that he had todo some gigolo work in order to

(49:11):
obtain some donation money.
See, he had took in anorphanage down there and kind of
made them his own those werehis babies, you know and he was
given temple money where hecould, but now there wasn't none
to give.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
So he was slinging his deck down there at the Coca
Cabana.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
He had to go do some gigolo work.
He said that a diplomat's wifeoffered to donate $5,000.
If Jim would give her threedays of sexual bliss, diplomatic
deck slinging and he supposedlygot Marceline's permission to
do this, and this was a storythat he would tell his followers

(49:50):
over and over, how he had tobecome a gigolo to save the
orphans.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
I'm having too much fun with this.
Had to, had to do it.
Had to do it, had to do it.
Jesus told me to.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
So well you know, jim Jones had now been absent from
his congregation for about twoyears and it was in serious
trouble.
The temple was in debt and indanger of utilities being cut
off and had lost most of itsmembers.
Membership went from about2,000 to 100.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
You better go.
You got to fix that bro.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Now the outreach programs continued, so the media
was used to gain donations forthe struggling church and they
were financially back on trackin just a short period of time
after, you know, media got theword out, but all the associate
pastors and stand-ins were nowat odds with each other and they
were ready to bail.
So, jim, he said, fam, we gotto go back, we got to go back to

(50:46):
Indianapolis.
So the Jones return, they getthe church back in order, along
with the help of his closeassociates, and now we're going
to start getting into the realcult territory.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
He's changing gears.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
So Jim starts to slowly condition his
congregation to accept the factthat he is God.
Uh-uh, and he continues tofearmonger the congregation, and
by 1966.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Pick up sticks.
I knew you were going to saythat.
So it was just like, okay, sohe's down in South America
slinging his deck, and he becameGod himself, I guess.
So, dude, we need to go, we'regoing to Rio, we're going to
sling some decks.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
The closest I'm going to get to Rio is probably
watching Rio.
The movies the movie with thebirds.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I'm happy with that.
I really am.
I really am.
Yeah, it's me, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
I don't want to be kidnapped.
You know what I'm saying, Right?
Well, I mean, I don't want tobe anything other than what I've
been trying to be lately.
He found a new location for hiscongregation to migrate to.
This would be Ukiah California.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Oh yes, you know, you can't see California without
Marlon Brando's eyes.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
You sure can't.
Yeah, that's a Slipknot song.
If you guys don't know, look itup.
What was it called?
Eyeless?

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes
Look me up, my Brando.
My Listen to it.
It's a great song.
It's great, love it.
It's a great song, love it.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
It's good.
Yes, deftones just released anew song.
By the way, keep on going,lindsay.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Okay, so this would be now Ukiah California.
This would be the best place tosurvive a nuclear attack.
They had more liberal views andmore racial equality.
The wind blew a certaindirection.
I mean, it was just, it was awhole thing.
Jim's made it California, yeah,so members of the congregation

(52:46):
would sell their homes and quittheir jobs and set out for the
promised land.
Uh-uh yeah, they formed a smallcommunity, aka a commune, and
they built a new church with afull kitchen and even had a
swimming pool inside.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
That's nice, it's a luxury vacation.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, there's a whole story behind that in both books
Road to Jonestown and Raven,where it talks about how that
came to be.
I encourage y'all to read it.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
So what was Raven?

Speaker 1 (53:16):
like you said, yes, it's pretty bougie that is
really bougie Raven and, likeyou said, yeah that is really
bougie.
Raven was like his hair right.
Yes, so you said his hair wasRaven.
His hair was of the Raven.
Oh man isn't that hot.
So Jim was now a deity, aprophet, a healer and a father
to his congregation.

(53:37):
Now he would gain new followersin the area, including a lawyer
which I accidentally spelledBlair named Tim Stone.
Tim was impressed with Jim'svision and liked how Jim would
work right alongside hisfollowers for their community,
because Jim would.
He would get right down inthere and do all the dirty work

(53:59):
with them.
Tim had a girlfriend namedGrace, who he started taking
along to the temple servicemeetings.
And Tim was pretty well off anddrove a Porsche and gave up all
of his worldly possessions tojoin the people's temple.
That's all it's all.
And he brought along Grace withhim and they ended up getting

(54:21):
married and Grace and Tim willbe a big part of part three.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
So Tim was all about that Grace, about that Grace.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
No trouble Now.
Jim had a very brilliant lawyeron his team, I mean, and he was
brilliant.
Like I said, we'll talk moreabout him in part three.
And so Jim was a teacher ofcivics and American history at
this time.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
This is fixing to a fucking explode, Lindsay, oh
fuck.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Marceline was an inspector of hospitals and
nursing homes and Lynette gottagive mama a job.
She worked for the Red Cross.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Well, Ukiah didn't really turn out to be as
racially integrated as Jim hadproclaimed.
In fact, it was prettyconservative and it was
nicknamed Redneck Valley.
What yes?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
That's a big term, oh .

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
That's a big term, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
So, to keep his followers from leaving, he
continued to do the fearmongering of the nuclear attack
and claimed that there was acave, that all commune members
could survive in this cave afterthe disaster.
And the truth was that therewas a cave, but it was really
not inhabitable Like you wouldhave had to lower people down

(55:42):
into it.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
It was a thing, it's a no take.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
I mean there's a lot of caves in that area.
We talked about that in thelast episode that you were in,
so near that area, same area,wow.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
So like he's just building, and you have the whole
government that is pushing abig narrative for, like global
takeovers and nuclear bombs,everybody's building all these
storm shelters, everybody's justthey don't know where to go.
So he just feels like he cancontrol massive groups of people
and that's what he's wanting.
Is that power?
Absolutely, I feel like he'sjust, he's setting himself up

(56:17):
and he's just.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I mean he was very close with Father Divine.
He won't let, he won't have afather, anybody that's up and
he's fixing to.
Just I got it.
I mean he was still very closewith Father Divine.
He wanted what Father Divinehad.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Well, anybody that's believing that he's a divine
being, you know, and if theybelieve that, they're going to
be full in, like all damn, he'sgot a big ass dick.
It's huge Well behind closeddoors.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
he started to think of other potential locations,
like Vancouver or Guadalajara,so he and Joe Phillips would
start making scouting trips forthese areas.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
If you had went to Costa Maya and never got off the
boat.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Never got off the boat, jesus Christ.
That is because we went toCosta Maya and we couldn't get
off the boat.
Now the rank and files werestill steadily recruiting and
those recruited, they would alsostart recruiting.
So teens were starting to cometo the temple services and Jim
would tell them what wasexpected of them.
You know out in the world andto go do good in school and be

(57:12):
kind to those of all races herewe go again Kind of good.
Yeah, it's good.
They were also taught that inthe event, the event of nuclear
war, that they were to care forthe elderly, which is also
pretty good.
You know, they were taught howto read a compass and how to use
a crossbow.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Oh yeah, Survival with Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
And Jim would lead protests about the Vietnam War,
because we are, you know, we'rein that era, we're in that time
period.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
He would lead the protests and he gained the title
of foreman of the county grandjury by a very impressed judge
named Robert Winslow In Augustof 1966.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Pick up Decks.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Jim would tell his congregation that there was to
be an accident cycle coming andif any members decided to
misbehave, this period would endon September 16th.
As the date approached, no onewas hurt until September 11th.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Oh, that is very fucking yes it was way before
the 9-11.
9-11.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, wow, way before .
Wow.
Now there was a member namedWhitey Freestone who was called
upon quite a bit and he wasbashed a lot for a lot of
different transgressions.
I'm going to list everythingthat you could be bashed for in
the next episode, but this onewas.
You know, whitey was bashed alot for being bougie bourgeois

(58:52):
and Jim liked to do that.
You know, he liked to call hismembers up and he would bash you
in front of the wholecongregation for, you know, very
minor infractions.
Now, no one else noticed thisshit, but Jim and what father
says goes Okay.
So Whitey apologized to thecongregation and on his way home

(59:14):
that night Whitey drove off acliff on the very windy road
back to Ukiah, so they wouldhave to go up.
It was called the Golden RuleTemple was where they would hold
their services.
Now they were still thepeople's temple, but they would
have to like, they had to borrow, like lease out of the temple.
Okay, so they would have to goup this windy road up and windy

(59:36):
road back down, and why he justdrove off a fucking cliff.
I had no idea if it was onpurpose or Jim's prophesied
accident, or if it was anaccident on purpose set up by
Jim Jones, damn Lindsay.
But Jim was flagged down andall of the family had survived

(59:58):
except one, whitey's daughter,and according to Jim, he was the
one that saved them.
Oh yeah, divine.
And the insurance payout forthe car, which was $1,300, was
put right in that offering plate.
Cha-ching, cha-ching.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
That could be $1,300.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yes, $1,300.
It's all Harris, doll Harris,it's all Harris.
So now, all Harris, it's allHarris.
So now we're in 1968, okay, andMartin Luther King has been
assassinated.
There was a memorial servicefor him at the Macedonia Baptist
Church in San Francisco and JimJones took about 150 temple

(01:00:39):
members who at this time weremostly white Remember before
back in Indiana was mostly blackRight but the ones that he got
to sell their shit andpossessions, those were some
dumb ass white people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
They came over.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
The following of the divine so they drove the hundred
miles to San Francisco to paytheir respects to you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
So this is their first big public presentation.
They show up as in California,in San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And you know the preacher of this church.
He was impressed with thiswhite man who was all for racial
equality and Jim was invited upto say a few words.
And Jim was invited up to say afew words and now he announced
that he's also going to behaving a big memorial service up
in Mendocino County where Ukiahis.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, y'all, come on, bring a covered dish yes, and
everyone was invited to join the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
People's Temple and he took emergency funds and
rented out the countyfairgrounds in Ukiah and made it
a whole well, actually it'sMendocino County Fair.
Yeah, he made it a big oldhoopla and of course this had to
include sermons equipped withplants for his cancer removal

(01:01:54):
trickery, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
This was really just a ploy to recruit more members
of the black community from SanFrancisco.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
And the absolute wild thing was that Jim would tell
his followers that were in onthe trick, that were in on you
know that whole bullshit, thatthe visitors cannot look too
close at the quote unquotecancer aka Rotten chicken
Chicken guts yeah.
And that, if that happened,they were to swallow it.
Ooh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, that's gross, I'm going to take it back.
I know Ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Also in normal temple services Jim would rarely quote
the Bible and if he did, it wasmostly negative, which we'll
get more into that in part three.
But this sermon he quoted thegood book in a positive manner
to make the visitors feel athome, aka he tricked the shit
out of them yeah.
So the ranks and files attainedphone numbers and addresses of

(01:02:54):
the visitors and would reach outto them afterwards encouraging
their return.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
How many times have you been to a church gathering
where they want your name, youraddress, your phone number?
Every one of them, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Every one of them Damn.
Oh yeah, so my dad was a churchhopper when I was growing up,
so we would usually get callsafter we filled out the
paperwork.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Oh, they would show up knocking.
Oh, they didn't knock on ourdoor.
Oh, man, they showed up at myhouse.
They used to send like cards.
Oh, no, no, no, I had them cometo my house.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Because my job, because my dad had his own
landscaping business.
So my job when I got home fromschool was to check the.
You know, we had the answeringmachine and I had to write down
the messages and phone numbersand everything.
And every day it seemed like wewere getting a call from a
different church.
Because my dad was a churchhopper.
He wanted to go somewhere wherehe felt at home and where he

(01:03:47):
felt like they weren't beggingfor money every Sunday.
But of course he never foundthat, because all churches are
going to be begging for moneyevery Sunday.
So the People's Temple wasoffering bus rides for the 200
mile round trip to attend theirservices, Because by now you
know they've got more money,They've got a whole commune of

(01:04:08):
people bringing in their wholeincome, their Social Security
checks, their pension checks,their severance packages they
got from quitting their jobs,got them.
Then they saw how the People'sTemple members would get things
done like Social Securitypaperwork.
They would help some of thesefolks get on welfare or

(01:04:29):
disability.
So the People's Temple gainedsome more residents and new
followers.
Some people would start, youknow, they would live on the
commune.
Some people would just comeevery sunday.
So by 1969 many people's templemembers had city, county and
government jobs and they weremaking shit happen.

(01:04:50):
Ukiah will have been invaded.
Okay now these new residentswere now receiving government
assistance that could alsocontribute to the community's
income.
But also in 1969, thingsstarted to get a little
different in the people's temple, which would begin with their
leader, and that's where we'regoing to end today.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Shit's fitting to change, was it the?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
summer of 69?
Absolutely, hell yeah.
So I'm not going to go too muchinto it.
So please stay tuned for partthree.
It's going to get wild, it'sgoing to get gross, holy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
I was just almost over here like I've been on edge
waiting for some shit, and thenthere's going to be a lot of
Jim Jones.
The driving off, the drivingoff the cliff, the like ranking
out people in front of thecongregation.
Oh, that's going to get worseand worse.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
People in front of the congregation oh, that's
going to get worse and worse.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, no, oh yeah, it's getting bad.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Part four is going to be a lot more of that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
That's full puddle.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Part three is going to be a lot of Jim Jones' deck.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Okay, His big deck His big deck, all right yeah.
Well, I'm excited about that.
Lindsay, you did a great job.
Thank you did a great job.
Thank you, Cindy, for hangingout with us yeah.
I feel like it's my turn though.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
It is.
What band are you going to plugtoday?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
I'm allowed to play music now and I got this cool
ass band dude, takeaway Thievesdude.
You need to check these bandsout, like everybody that's
listening right now.
I mean, the last band lastweekend was so good, so good.
One of them's on Octane rightnow.
They're like they're doingsomething.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Aurora Wave is making waves.
They are, they are the summerfire.
And what did I tell?

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
everybody at Rockville.
They're going to be the summerhit dude.
We're going to see them therenext year.
Absolutely, aurora Wave is thesummer hit.
They're touring around, they'refixing to hit national, they're
fixing to hit international.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Yes, huge, so good.
They're like all over my TikTokeverything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
They're all in my algorithm, so I got I got the
takeaway thieves here, takeawaythieves and I got this song here
.
It's called true story and Iwant to play that shit.
All right, here we go, we'llsee, right back, I'll tell the

(01:07:46):
love and glory.
So tell me your true story Fromstart to day.
Again, let me say To startagain.
When the shadows come alive,take a breath and blow it all
away.
All the stars up in the sky,listen back on what we used to

(01:08:09):
see, letting all the hours go.
We will make them all come backone day and tell me your true
story, the one that never ends.
A test of love and glory.

(01:08:33):
Oh.
So tell me your true story.
I'm stuck to tell again.
Let's pretend I'm stuck to jailagain.
Let's pretend, let it all beout of school, let it all be out

(01:08:57):
of school.
We will make them all come backone day.
Tell me your true story theworld that never ends A death of

(01:09:22):
lovely glory.
So tell me you're too started.
Or start to tell again.
Let's pretend To start again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Holy shit, lindsay Hell yeah, so Takeaway Thieves
was formed in 2018, and they'rebased in Blackpool, UK.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Oh, that is so like perfect for like the sound and
everything I've been jokingabout, like Everclear and the
bands and the oh, I love it.
Yes, I love it.
It sounds like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Green Day.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
It's got a little Green Day a little Like
Everclear and the bands.
Oh, I love it.
Yes, I love it.
It sounds like.
Green Day.
It's got a little Green Day.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
So they say that they are old school hard rock with a
glam swagger.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Follow them on the Instagram and they have their
whole link tree.
You can follow them on YouTube,facebook, instagram, twitter,
spotify and TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
So cool, yes, so cool .

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Love it Swag store.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Check them out.
Great Britain, hey, hey, greatBritain.
Yes, e-buy Gum over there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
E-Buy Gum.
That's Yorkshire.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Oh well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
The Yorkshire boys.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
They probably know.
They probably know.
Oh, I'm sure they know.
Lindsay, you had a great story,holy shit.
The music was great and thedeck of Mr Jim was very great.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
All right, not great at all, really.
I don't know if I said it atthe top of the episode, but this
is definitely going to be afour-parter.
Guys, stay tuned.
Yeah, it's going to get morewild, and then it's going to be
crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
It's going to be the tits, the Jim tits, the gym tits
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
It's going to be a lot.
I'm out of alcohol.
I'm going to go ahead and putblanket trigger warnings on the
next two episodes.
So may all your warnings betriggered and all your triggers
be warned.
I'm your father.
Yeah, it's going to be a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Come to the dark side .
I'm sorry, I don't know if wewere trying to get it.
It's going to get dark.
I can't even geek the right way, but hey, you did a great job.
Thank you.
We had some great guests overhere.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
I am riveted by these two books that I am listening
to on audiobook.
Yeah, books are crazy.
I don't have time to sit downand read them, so I am
definitely listening.
The theme park is wild, wild.
The deck's getting big big deckit's growing it's swelling yeah
it's gonna be deep inside you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
On part three all right and we will see you guys
next week yes, I just can't wait.
I cannot wait, lindsey, becauseI think puddleage is coming,
because I haven't been reallypuddled yet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Just a little bit of puddleage there's gonna be no
puddling in the next episode,not on three oh four, wait till
four, bring, bring your tissuesat four but three tissues at
four and three and we'll pee atthree but puddling on four.
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
I'm lost and I'm out of.
I'm out of stuff over here, I'mout of you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
We're out of drinks, so that means yeah, we'll see
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
We've had a great time, you guys.
So much for tuning in.
Check us out on wild build.
Drink about something.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Dot site if you haven't heard yet yes, follow us
on instagram wherever youlisten to your podcast, all the
the stuff, youtube, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Just type in gen z on youtube.
J-e-n-d-s-e-y, j-e-n-d-s-e-y.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
J-E-N-D-S-E-Y.
Our following is building, justlike Jim Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
His dick Whoa Lindsay .

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
I'm just kidding.
We're not cult leaders, guys.
We just want you to listen toour shit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Yeah, so, and as always, don't drink the Kool-Aid
and we will see you guys nextFriday.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
And it's the Flavor Aid.
Don't drink that shit, neither.
No it ain't even real fuckingcool Off brand, but we'll get
there, we'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
So, yep, see you guys next Friday.
Yes, bye.