Episode 29: Lady Jane Grey - A Nine Day Reign - Drinking Our Way Through History

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's the Dau thing of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're about to douth you in some knowledge.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm so excited You're about to get douthed God you're
going to get douthed in.
Lady Jane Grey.
Yeah, Lady.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Jane Grey is about to douth all over you.
It's going to douth you withknowledge.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
So first off, ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the
late episode, one day late, weknow.
Fucking.
Sue us, it's my fault, it's myfault.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Wait, wait, cooper, that was you saying that we have
very similar voices.
I want to make sure that I'mtaking none of the blame for
this.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's definitely Ian's fault.
He's the one that said that,and so yeah, it's not true, that
is a blatant lie.
I have been working on thescript and I wanted it to be
great, so that's what we'regoing to hope for, and you might
have heard this little you justdropping stuff on the table.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
You're adding sound effects, knocking the microphone
around, a little bit of thisand that.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, it's called ambiance.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
No, it's called professional podcasting, which
is obviously Cooper, would yousay.
That's what we're known forAbsolutely Professional podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Look at this table.
It's a round one.
It is round.
We're basically two Arthur'sArthur the round tables.
Yeah, yeah, there's one table,though I don't know why I put an
S at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
They didn't have two separate tables where there were
multiple nights.
What are you guys talking about?
You got a little kitty tablefor Lance a lot over there.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to drinking
our way through history.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I feel like you said gentlemen, a little bit too
succulently, like you werereally talking to their soul.
Ladies and gentlemen, yeah, yougot to entice these men.
This one's for the men no, I'mjust kidding.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Welcome to drinking our way through history, where
we cover the legendary people,places and events that history
has to offer, while enjoying athick pour of wine.
I am Cooper and I am Ian.
In today's episode, we will bediscussing Lady Jane Gray.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Not to be confused with Mary Jane.
This is Lady Jane.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, I feel like it's.
You know, mary Jane is likejust Mary Jane, like, probably
like.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Are you saying?
This is probably obvious to thelisteners and I probably
shouldn't have made theclarification Extremely obvious
when it's Lady Jane Gray, youknow what?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, that's totally fair.
That's totally fair.
Now, lady Jane Gray is alsoknown as the Nine Days Queen.
Yes, lady Jane Gray was a noblewoman who briefly became Queen
of England for just nine days inJuly of 1553.
Nine days.
Born into a prominentaristocratic family with ties to

(03:13):
the royal tutor lineage, shewas highly educated, known for
her intelligence and had astrong Protestant upbringing
those damn Protestants.
Her unexpected ascent to thethrone came amidst a succession
crisis, following the death ofKing Edward VI, who named her as
his heir in an attempt toprevent his Catholic half-sister

(03:36):
, mary I, from taking power dueto their religious beliefs.
Jane's reign was swiftlychallenged by Mary I and she was
eventually deposed and laterexecuted at a very young age of
16 years old, becoming known asthe Nine Days Queen Technically

(03:57):
the first Queen of England.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, yeah, technically for a very, very,
very, very, very very brief time, yeah, but still there.
You know, War the Crown Cooper.
Speaking of executions, I'mthinking of something that the
listeners could execute at thisvery moment.
They could execute that likebutton.
They could execute that fivestar review button.
Yeah, they can.

(04:19):
They could execute thatsubscribe button.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, get on that Steamy steamy.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Now, in the dramatic landscape of English history, a
pivotal event unfolded after thepassing of King Edward VI, who
had no male heirs and was theonly son of King Henry VIII.
This momentous event triggeredwhat we now call the succession
crisis.
You see, when Edward VI died,it set off a bit of a scramble,

(04:48):
since the Tudor family didn'thave any males in line to take
over the throne, which led to alot of panic within the nobility
.
As you can assume, everybody'sscrambling.
Who's going to be the king?
Who's going to be?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
the queen yeah, they're freaking the fuck out
and there's a lot of money onthe line.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Always money, and they're all trying to get on the
throne somehow.
They're like in sevengenerations.
This move will pay off.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
So first things first , let's go ahead and talk about
who the Tudor family was and whythey were a rather significant
family in English history.
The Tudor family was aprominent English royal dynasty
that rose to power in the late15th century and ruled England
from 1485 to 1603.
That's a long dynasty, that'sover 100 years.

(05:33):
Pretty good Did well.
Yeah, did not do bad.
So he began with Henry VII, whoemerged victorious in the war
of the roses or sorry, the warsof the roses yes, there was a
few of them Plural which was aseries of civil wars between the
rival houses of Lancaster andYork for the throne of England.
Shout out Lancasters, thoseincestual motherfuckers.

(05:54):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Oh hey, I really feel like I should probably throw
out like the source that we'reusing here today, like obviously
there's various articles acrossthat I kind of checked this
source with, but it is fromBenage history on YouTube
history documentary of realtruth history.
Real truth with Helen Caster.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Ah, good old Helen.
Yes, oh, that's the thing thatplayed before we started the
project.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I needed to get it there.
So I was like what was her name?

Speaker 2 (06:22):
again, Cooper and I were arguing a little bit and
then all of a sudden it goes.
This is Helen Caster.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Helen Caster.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes, Sorry, I'm going to call her Caster.
So Henry the seventh marriedElizabeth of York, uniting the
warring factions andestablishing the Tudor dynasty.
Their union symbolized the endof the conflict and brought
stability to England.
Henry the seventh's reignmarked the beginning of a new
era characterized by theconsolidation of royal authority

(06:49):
, economic growth and culturalflourishing.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yes, I like to flourish.
We love that flourishing.
It's pretty great.
Yeah, I mean we'll get boggeddown too much in the English
history of family trees andlineage and monarchs.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Why not Cooper, cause it's basically a bramble bush.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh my God, it's just like you, just get so long.
We're so long.
I wish Dick joke, we're 30seconds in.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Dick joke.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
It's yeah, we're going to get through this, but
this is kind of explain got toexplain the setup here.
Otherwise it's like, well, thisis such an issue, there's a lot
of people there and then itjust, yeah, there's no men.
Now their son, henry the eighth, is one of the most well known
Tudor monarchs.
His highlights during his rulewere his break from the Roman
Catholic church and theestablishment of the church of

(07:37):
England, the termination of themonasteries and his multiple
marriages, which played apivotal role in England's
religious and politicallandscape.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
The termination of the monasteries?
Oh no, wherever will they sendtheir family members that they
hate?

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Bro, not the monasteries.
So many, so many people.
We don't like that uncle.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, he went to become a monk in the monastery.
It's like the farm.
It's like when an goldenretriever dies, the family dog
dies and the parents are like,we sent him to the farm.
He's at the monastery.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
But like 90% of the Catholic like world was
destroyed in this time.
So like in England, becausethey removed all the stained
glass, they removed all of theoh.
So it was like an actual wipe,oh, it was a wipe.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, like they wiped that bitch, clean Wow.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
It was devastating for them.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
For the Catholics?
Oh no, the Catholics had a hardtime one time.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Geez.
So they were bringing in theera of the Protestant religion.
Now Henry the eighth's children, edward the sixth, mary the
first and Elizabeth the first,would all rule England after
Henry's death.
Edward the sixth's short reignwas marked by religious reform.
And now, just as a reminder,edwards the king that dies in

(09:05):
the story Dead King.
That sets it all off Yep, whileMary the first famously sought
to restore Catholicism, earningher nickname Bloody Mary we all
know Bloody Mary Due to herpersecution of the Protestant
dissenters and Elizabeth, thefirst strain, is often regarded
as a golden age in Englishhistory, characterized by

(09:26):
stability, cultural growth andexploration.
The Tudor era was atransformative period in England
, witnessing social, religiousand political changes that left
a lasting impact on thecountry's history and identity.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, you know what?

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I mean it was just crazy.
It was up and down back andforth and just like then this
shit with Lady Jane Grey Likeit's nuts.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
It is nuts, yeah, and you know what else is nuts?
I actually met Bloody Mary onetime, and you can meet her too.
You just go into your bathroomand you turn off the lights.
You look at the mirror and youjust say Bloody Mary, Bloody
Mary, Bloody Mary.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
There she is.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It's crazy, you can talk to a first person source
yes, yes, yes, that sounds aboutright yeah.
So Edward VI had essentiallywritten his will, which is known
as Edward's device ofsuccession, which is so sick.
I hope somebody comes up with anickname for my will one day.
He wrote down who he thoughtshould be the next ruler of

(10:25):
England.
Now this document stressed howcrucial it was to have a male as
the next ruler.
Interestingly, in this document, a girl named Jane Grey, who
was the daughter of Lady FrancisGrey, was mentioned as a
potential ruler, but there'sstrong speculation that the Duke
of Northumberland, who wasEdward's closest advisor, might

(10:47):
have had a hand in this documentfor his own personal gain, if
you can imagine that.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, that's one thing in this time of history is
everybody is going out fortheir self-interest.
Oh, yeah.
They're looking out for onlythat.
Yeah, it's not so much of like.
I am on the right side ofhistory.
It's I am on the side that'sgoing to win and not get me
killed.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, well, because a lot of people were dying.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, a lot of people were dying, around everybody.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Now, the dork of Northumberland was not only
Edward's right hand man.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Did you just call him the dork of Northumberland?

Speaker 2 (11:20):
The dork of Northumberland.
No, sorry, guys, the Duke,there we go.
Yeah, sorry, I was trying toduke you out, you fucking loser.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
God, you got to duke me up.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
You're so funny.
You're so funny, I know, I know.
The Duke of Northumberland wasnot only Edward's right hand man
but also the leader of theprivy council that advised the
king.
He was a significant figure inthe court and his involvement in
this document did raise someeyebrows.
His motives and potentialinfluence in naming Jane Gray as

(11:57):
a successor added a layer ofcomplexity to an already intense
situation.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Now who the hell is Lady Jane Gray?
Yeah, right, right, like, let'sfigure that out.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
She was only around for nine days.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
She was around for 16 years.
Nine days this queen, and thenshe had her head lopped off.
Lady Jane Gray had a connectionto the Tudor family through her
grandmother, mary Tudor.
Jane's mother, lady FrancesBrandon, was Mary's Tudor was
Mary Tudor's daughter.
Are we following?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I like how you said Mary's Tudor's daughter,
because Tudor like we all thinkwe all have a Tudor.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, it's cool.
Well, we don't all have a Tudor, but that's true.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Okay, Mr Privilege over there, no.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I'm just kidding.
Yeah, Mary Tudor's daughterTudor family.
Right, Mary was the youngersister of King Henry VIII,
making her Jane's great aunt.
This relationship placed Janewithin the extended royal family
, giving her a distant claim tothe throne through her lineage.

(13:02):
It was never really likesupposed to happen.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
No.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Like it was very.
It was a controlledcircumstance.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
I was watching a documentary by Weird History on
YouTube.
Yeah, super funny.
I basically were like, yeah,the likelihood of her becoming
queen was basically thelikelihood of you or me becoming
a fucking astronaut.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I was like oh, okay.
That puts it into layman'sterms.
Absolutely, that's a good way.
Thank you.
Now Lady Jane Gray was born inOctober 1537 in Bradgate Park,
Lecheshire, England.
I don't know how to say thisword.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
No, I think you're right.
Lecheshire.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Lechesh Lech Lech-, lech Lech-.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Lecheshire, and if we're wrong, it's the same thing
, is worth to say.
You don't fucking aim at that,but come on, make it easy for us
.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
So she was raised in a noble household, her parents
being Henry Gray, the Duke ofSuffolk and Lady Frances Branden
.
Now, her upbringing was markedby an exceptional education,
focusing on classical languages,theology and philosophy, which
is not typical for women of hertime.
She spent much of her earlylife in the care of scholars and

(14:12):
tutors like actual tutors, notthe family tutor.
Yeah, she became proficient inGreek, latin and French,
showcasing a fluency andunderstanding that were unusual
for someone of her age andgender of that era.
Like, I mean, women justweren't really like.
Taught that well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
All of things, especially like even the
aristocrats and the socialitesand, if I'm not mistaken, I
think she knew like Arabic.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
She knew a bunch of.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
She knew up to six that she was pretty proficient
in, and then there was like 11languages that she just kind of
could get by in.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
These are the ones that I kept seeing the most
frequently Greek, latin andFrench, I think.
Arabic.
She was asked, she went aboutlearning Arabic herself and then
was like seeking tutors.
Help to continue her education.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Maybe it was one of those where, like, she can read
it but can't speak it, kind of Ibet you it's something like
that because, at the age of 15,being proficient in like 11
languages is very impressive.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
It is a lot Like that's so much and there's so
much more to learn aboutliterally everything.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
But if you're taught from the time you're a bebe, it
becomes a lot easier, I guessthat's very true.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, she was very smart.
Very smart is what we're tryingto say Now.
Jane Gray lived a relativelyquiet life within her noble
family, engaging in scholarlypursuits and likely
participating in the social lifecustomary to someone of her
station.
Now she was married to LordGuildford Dudley at the age of
15.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
That was damn Dudley's that was.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Dudley's Now.
Their marriage was arraigned aspart of a political strategy
orchestrated by their families,but by, particularly, by none
other than the Duke ofNorthumberland, aiming to
strengthen their positions andsolidify their influence through
a connection to royal lineage.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Now, apparently nobody liked the Dudley's,
though.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Fun fact like they were just kind of that rabble
house family.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
That was just like that squarely mousy, fucking.
Yeah.
Well, you know why?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Because in Northumberland he came from
fucking nothing, so he came fromthe ground up.
He was a peasant common manthat worked his way into the
military, became a generalleader and then worked his way
into higher nobility and gotonto the privy council.
That was literally the echochamber for the king or queen.
Yeah, their suggestion, guys.

(16:25):
He's kind of like Otto oh gosh,what's his name?
Otto from Otto Hightower, fromthe House of the Dragon.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, he reminds me a lot of him, basically like Hand
of the King.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
No, okay.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
That's who he is, but he is Like once again he's out
for his own interest.
So he forced this marriage andgave Jane's father like a bunch
of money, essentially, and whenJane was like I don't really
want to marry this fucking guy,her dad slept the shit out of
her, apparently, that's, youknow, according to eyewitnesses

(17:02):
and so she eventually was justlike fine, whatever, I'll just
bring this guy.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, one of those forced arranged marriage
situations.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
But he had it because he was like, if we marry into
their family, then we are nowofficially part of the lineage
of the monarchs.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So that's where he's at Classic Dudley.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Now let's go ahead and like get back into the story
.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Now, the succession crisis wasn't just about who got
the crown.
It was tangled up in a fierceclash between two major branches
of Christianity Protestantismand Catholicism.
So in one corner you had theProtestants, who had been
gaining ground in England.
You can think of theProtestantism, as you know the
more laid back religion, not asstrict, no single leader like

(17:50):
the Pope, more directcommunication with God through
prayer and, of course, not asmany books in their Bible, and
they also don't have so much ofa strict hierarchy inside of the
church.
On the other side stood theCatholics, led by Mary the first
, who was Edward's older sisterand a staunch believer in
Catholicism.
Being such a committed believerput her at odds with the

(18:10):
Protestant movement that waspicking up steam and made her a
potential threat toProtestantism that or sorry, to
the Protestantism that KingEdward and many others supported
.
She would host illegal Catholicmasses at her own home, which
in turn, of course, pissedEdward off and confirmed his
belief that she would never bequeen and, to kind of put this

(18:32):
in perspective, mary's in her30s, edward 15.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, like he had the crown from like 14 to 15 years
old.
He was a fucking kid.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, Well, that's the thing.
That's what a lot of peopleforget about these kinds of
stories.
It's like usually the people inthe royalty that we're talking
about are not old sons ofbitches.
No, they're young.
Yeah, because kings did notlive a long life a lot of times
back then.
Right.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, they got.
Yeah fuckered up pretty quick.
They got dundered in yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Now, Edward's device for the succession was like a
shield against Mary becomingqueen and protecting England
from losing their newly foundedProtestant ways.
So this wasn't just a familysquabble for power.
It was actually a clash ofreligious beliefs that made the
choice of the next ruler evenmore critical.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Dun, dun dun.
So the whole situation wastruly like a chessboard with two
main players.
Okay, on one side you had Mary,the first, that was backed by
her Catholic beliefs andsupporters, and now on the other
side was the Duke ofNorthumberland he was like the

(19:41):
antagonist of this story, yeahwho was firmly aligned with the
Protestant cause, mainly due tomoney and power, because he like
so.
Northumberland, who wasEdward's right hand man and held
a lot of influence.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I was gonna say he's like the second most powerful
man in England when you're theDuke of Northumberland, yeah
yeah, basically.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
I mean, like I said, he's like kind of the hand of
the king.
So he had a lot to lose if Marybecame queen.
His position, his wealth andstatus were all tied to the
Protestant cause.
So if Mary took the throne,northumberland risked losing
everything he had worked for.
His whole world hinged onensuring that a Protestant ruler

(20:21):
succeeded Edward.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
So because, like I said, man came to the bottom and
now he's here you know, yeah,yeah, he's kind of like Otto
Hightower from the House of theDragon.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
Yeah, I just didn't even thinkof that.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
No, I know, I know that was a completely original
thought that had nothing to dowith the script in front of me.
Nothing, nothing at all, no sono, Now.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
he wasn't just a casual observer of this whole
drama.
Northumberland was a centralfigure in the succession crisis.
Since his personal interestswere deeply entwined with the
outcome, he chose to be in thethick of it, working behind the
scenes to shape the future ofEngland.
Thick thick.
We'll just go throw that outthere.
Edward's device for successionwasn't something people waved

(21:05):
around openly.
It was produced in secret.
Revealing Edward's intentionsopenly could have shifted the
balance of power and jeopardizedthe intricate plans that
Northumberland had put in motion.
Initially, Jane Gray waswritten into the device only
because her mother was supposedto be a placeholder until one of
the daughters had a male child.

(21:26):
But as Edward was becoming moresick, he added two words that
would change the course ofEngland's history and her Yep, I
don't think that's how he saidit, but Probably.
Yeah, just like that.
He wrote it down and he waslike and her.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Before the device had read the Lady Jane's heirs male
.
After the change, it read LadyJane and her heirs male.
What historians believe is thatEdward was dying.
He was faced with the fact thata woman was absolutely going to
inherit the throne, whether heliked it or not.
Now Lady Jane could have beenselected because of her

(22:06):
education and the Protestantfaith, or because the Duke of
Northumberland wanted her tobecome queen so she could name
his son now her husband the Kingof England.
And of course, it could be amix of her education in
Northumberland's manipulation,but it's pretty much certain
that it's the latter the waythings play out.
It's heavily believed that theDuke of Northumberland had a

(22:27):
heavy hand in Lady Jane'ssuccession.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Absolutely.
It was so unholy it's.
Yeah, I mean, at the end of theday, everybody does like turn
on Northumberland.
It was like he's the fuckingasshole that made me do it.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Don't kill me Usually is what happens to Max.
It's a mix of everybody's hand,of course.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
but he's the culprit, he's a scapegoat.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So Northumberland swayed overthe court and his close
relationship with the young kingenabled him to influence sorry,
had a mini stroke there toinfluence and modify this
critical document being the willof Henry.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, the divisive succession.
Now the Grey family,particularly Jane Grey, became
pivotal in Edward's plan for thesuccession.
The Privy Council supportedNorthumberland's scheme lending
official weight to thealteration of the succession.
Now, Lady Jane Grey'supbringing played a crucial role
in these events.

(23:20):
Her education surpassed that ofmany royal women of her time,
including Princess Mary andPrincess Elizabeth.
Seen as a beacon for the futureof the Protestant Reformation
in England, Jane Grey wasessentially groomed for a
significant role in shaping thereligious direction of the
nation.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
I wonder if the Duke of Northumberland was like ah,
my son is married to the queen,let's go ahead and kill off the
queen so that my son can just beking.
That's exactly what.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Well, I mean, it wouldn't.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
So she was going to just namehim king.
That's what they so, that'swhat they wanted.
The plan, that's not what shedid, but that's what they wanted
.
That's what they wanted, so theythought she was just going to
be this docile little fuckingpuppet, basically.
And as soon as she got anointedand got there, then she was
going to and we're gonna talkabout this basically give him a

(24:16):
crown and call him king, andthey expected Mary to just eat,
like they were gonna find herand kill her or they were going
to have her just roll over.
They didn't think that shewould be able to rebel at all.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Right, because she was so young.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is honestly it's , fucking it's very game of
thrones to ask.
No, it's men dude, it's justguys, it's fucking guys.
Guys are so stupid and theyunderestimate the fuck out of
women.
They underestimate Mary andthey underestimate Lady Jane in
this fucking story, like theyjust don't know and they're all
dealing with their own actionsand consequences and they are

(24:53):
all begging for their ownfucking lives by the end of the
story Because they're allfucking dipshits.
Men are stupid and we shouldn'tbe running anything anymore.
Like we should probably give itto the men, just like Wolf Earl
just fucking said, like at someshow he was like we've been
running things since like Idon't know 10,000 BC and it's
not going great.
How about we let the women doit?
I think that'd be grand,honestly, because if this shit

(25:15):
was just figured out like sorryRhett, now Wow Cooper.
So Cooper feels strongly as heshould.
We just haven't done anythinggreat.
Now the only way that this couldlike go smoothly at all is if
Edward's sister, mary, doesn'tfind out that she has been cut
out from the line of succession.
If Mary finds out, it literallycould start a civil war in

(25:39):
England.
But Mary began to growsuspicious that something was up
with the Privy Council and theDuke of Northumberland developed
this really small like circleof trust people in order to keep
the device of succession underwraps and to try and combat her
suspicions, suspicions,suspicions, suspicions,

(26:00):
suspicions, oh my God.
Anyways, you gotta know whatI'm saying.
Now.
A few days before Edward dies,northumberland attempted to lure
Mary to London, aiming tothwart any challenge to Jane's
accession.
But Mary is tipped off bysomeone at the court that Edward
is dying, and so she goes intohiding because she thinks that

(26:23):
Northumberland is plotting tokill her, which she is
absolutely right.
What a time to be alive.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's fucking nuts On July 6th 1553, the 15 year old
King Edward VI, sick in bed,says that he is feeling faint
and within a couple of minutespasses away the news I'm feeling
faint, father, and why was this15 year old just suddenly dying
?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
He'd just been growing sick and just sicker and
sicker.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Poison, poison, gotta be poison.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Gotta be poison.
So we'll talk about this alittle bit, but it is a very big
speculation that Northumberlandwas poisoning the living shit
out of him.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, I mean in overtime too, like so that it
wasn't like a sudden it's KingJoffrey death.
It's like oh, he's ill and wedon't know why.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah he's literally the conf, like he's the
confidant of the King, and so hegets closed quarters with them.
Yeah, have some wine, have somewine, and then he sprinkles in
some cyanide.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, have some more wine.
Oh God, dude.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
I mean, we don't know that.
That's not for certain, wedon't.
There's no proof of that,absolutely, but it is.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
but it's a very it's like it's a funny coincidence.
Yeah, yeah, oh man.
Now the news of the death ofthe King it's not announced that
night, nor even the next day.
Why?
Because Northumberland isgetting everything set into
place to place hisdaughter-in-law, Lady Jane Gray,
on the throne, a role that sheis still completely unaware of.

(27:54):
The morning of Friday, july 7th, the day after Edward died,
northumberland sends his sonsand 300 soldiers to find and
catch Princess Mary before shehas time to gather up a
resistance.
But Mary had already gone intohiding and it sought refuge with
other Catholic supporters andhad also received the news that

(28:16):
her brother had died.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, cause she's Princess Mary, bro, she's got
connections, she's not dumb,yeah, and we'll also talk about,
like, just cause there'sillegitimacy, bro, there's so
many things.
So, as tensions escalated,Northumberland and his
supporters secured the Tower ofLondon, which at the time was a
fortress of immense significance, in an attempt to maintain

(28:39):
control and thwart any attemptby Mary or her allies to seize
power.
It was this cause.
London was a lot smaller backthen, yeah, like a lot smaller.
Yeah.
And the Tower of London is thisjust fucking it's.
You don't, you can't seize itLike it is.
All the munitions are in there,all of the cannons are in there

(29:01):
, all the people, all the swords, all the arrows, all the
crossbows, like it is.
It is an armory that you, it isunpenetrable, right and you
will be decimated.
It's right there on the riverin London.
Now, at this point,northumberland is scrambling
guards and Navy to blockade anyattempt of Mary making any
significant move against them.
And by Sunday, all politicalplayers across the country knew

(29:25):
that the King was dead, jane wasto be queen, but still no
public statement had been madeand the one person who still had
no fucking idea was Jane.
Now, that is-.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Poor Jane, bro.
I know, bro, she's just throwninto the shit.
Yeah, she's a child and she hadno intention of ruling, but she
did not want to be ruling, likeshe did not want to be in
charge.
She did not want to be queen,no.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
So the evening of that Sunday, july 9th,
northumberland has Jane broughtto his own personal house, known
as the Scion House.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's still around, basically the Duke of
Northumberland, it's in London,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Once she arrives, she is told that the line of
succession has changed and sheis now the Queen of England.
What a thing to just be toldshe's like hey, by the way, you
know this job that you never,ever have been prepared for in
any which way, because it'stotally not even the right thing
at all for you to do, you gotit, you got it, you got it.
So the French ambassador thatwas in the room reported that

(30:25):
Jane burst into tears andexpressed how she did not want
to be queen.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
She said this is not for me.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
The rightful heir is Mary, but her parents ended up
showing up to the house and putspressure on her to accept the
damn job.
Jane eventually accepts thisrole and accepts it because it
is what God intended and shewill do the best she can with
the role that God has given her.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Wow, god.
That's a weird way to pronouncethe Duke of Northumberland.
That's an interesting way ofpronouncing that.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
This is the documentary that I watch.
It's a three-part series andthey got great, very dramatic
acting intertwined betweentalking from the historians and
everything, and it's just.
It's great.
You should watch it.
It's just, it's cheesy, but itworks.
Yeah, Now, at this time, Maryhas arrived at her manor in
Keninghall where she begins towrite to gather support around

(31:21):
the country to begin her fightfor the crown.
Signing her letters Mary theQueen.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Because, like the thing is, is Protestantism is
about 16 years old in England atthis point.
Yeah, Catholicism been aroundfor a lot longer.
Than that Right.
And so this whitewashing orthis just washing of Catholicism
not whitewashing, but becauseit's still both white religions,
right.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, we, we wide it out, the white out with more
white.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
And it really shocked everyone in England because
imagine, especially back then,as common people, you know that
is the belief, that is your truedestiny and you have burial
rituals that are a certain wayfor Catholic mass and Catholic
proceedings and Catholicfunerals, and then that has
taken away from you and all of asudden you're like do my dead

(32:14):
ones even go to heaven now?
Right and like hey, you just,you can just kneel down by your
bed and you just pray, and oryou could just be in your car
and you could pray.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Right, or I'm sorry on your on your horse and you
can pray.
Well, Protestantism is such aso much more of a lack of day's
ago.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, you know exactly it's very much laid back
.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
And so you're not going to hell if you sin once.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
you know so think of like an, a type personality
going drastically, like in asnap of the fingers, to be type
yeah, without wanting to go tobe type Right.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
That's what essentially is happening here,
and so there's still a lot offactions of England that are
like no, no, no, no, no, bro, westill do Catholicism, we don't
do this Protestantism shit.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Right, this is new.
I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, there are definitely converters, but they
also convert right.
The fuck back, right.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
And yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So she's writing out like this is my right, this is
my birthright, not only by mybloodline, but also by what is
parliament also by parliamenthas given me this right as well.
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Because it's illegitimate Parliament and God,
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
So Monday, july 10th, jane was to be presented to the
public as their new queen andwas brought to the Tower of
London.
When she arrives in London byboat, there is a crowd of people
waiting to see their new queen.
When she exits the boat, peopleare immediately shocked, but
you know more like a quiet shock.
Yeah, you can't be.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
you can't be loud about this one.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, it's like it's like a day I'll just kind of
shut the fuck up.
It's like a little gasp.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
It's like no, no, no, that's too long.
You get fucking hands or yourmouth.
Your tongue is gone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that.
And it's like sorry, I had tohiccup Sorry.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Anybody got any thumbs.
So the reason that they wereshocked is because they see Lady
Jane's mother carrying herdaughter's train.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Her mother, who is more senior than her.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, most mothers are, obviously.
Yeah, most mothers are.
I mean, the line is succession.
She's more senior than her.
Yeah, no, you're right.
No, you're right.
So when, when you say carryingher daughter's train, by the way
, you're talking about her dressLike it.
Oh okay, I thought she meantlike a little toy train or
something.
I was like she wasn't thatfucking young, she was 16.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
No, she came off like this the fuck she do would hang
it out with a train.
She came off this littleriverboat, you know, and then,
like she had a dress and gown on.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
That the train of the dress.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Okay.
Okay, see, I was.
I was unknowledged on that one,Ian doesn't hang around much
women.
Well, no, I don't hang aroundmuch women that have their
dresses carried, sorry, I hangout with independent women.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Ian also doesn't go to weddings.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
You got me there, you did get me there.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
So her mother had a closer tie to the line of
succession, hence the but herlittle hitty yeah.
But her mother was also notmarried to the Duke of
Northumberland's son, Uh-huh.
Another shock was thatGuildford Northumberland's son
and Jane's husband led theprocession as if he were the new
king.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, pretty.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
This was like an extremely telling sign that
everything had been set up andthat Jane had been used in order
for him to take the crown,basically.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Oh yeah, People saw this and they're like what the
fuck yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
They're like Doris, Doris, look at this, look at
this, this is fucked up.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
This is so fucked, doris.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
This is Doris.
This is over here, like I'mhaving a stroke Smelling toast.
I smell toast.
What's toast?
I've never had toast.
It's the 17th, 15th centuryThey've had toast, you dim shit
but it's cooked over a fire, notin a toaster.
Therefore it's just calledfrost.
I have to be right.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
We'll go with frost.
We'll go with frost.
So you smell frost today.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I'm having frost, doris.
So with this visual, the publicstarted to kind of speculate
that Northumberland had actuallypoisoned King Edward in order
to put his son on the throne.
Yeah, without a fucking doubt.
I'm sorry, but without afucking doubt I think that
that's what happened.
They see this shit and they'relike that's Duke's son,
something's fishy, and it's notthe frost, it's not the frost?

Speaker 1 (36:28):
No, because it's bread.
Why would there be fish on it,Ian?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
No, it's still frost Anyway.
Needless to say, Northumberlandwas a very hated figure.
He was also previously knownfor violently putting down a
series of revolts by usingmercenaries, some years before
this whole episode.
So basically, the people justabsolutely loved him.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
They did not like him because these like, when he put
down the revolts, it wasn'tjust like hey guys, calm down,
We'll get it all figured out.
He hired these mercenaries fromlike Germany and Austria and
they came over and they justmurdered everybody who was
revolting.
Yeah, he was just like how doyou put in a revolt?
You fucking squash it.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
You kill them.
Yeah, you kill them all youkill them all.
So, even though the commonpeople hated him, northumberland
knew that he had to try andconvince them that Jane was the
right and true queen.
So his counsel had a publicannouncement written up for her
proclamation to the throne, tobe printed and distributed.
It was the first time that anew monarch was announced

(37:31):
through print.
That's significant.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
It is significant.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
And it's very significant, and it's one of
those moments where you're justlike mmm, I smell bullshit, I
smell some bullshit.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Now, this print was a classic right, a bunch of
bullshit without actuallyexplaining something
straightforward and just hopingfor the best, aka all my college
papers.
Now, this announcement wasthree pages long.
That's a wow, three pages long,two and illiterate people.
Ok, these people are not.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, because the common folks couldn't read, so
they're just getting this.
This is the queen, and thenHarold's out there reading this
three page thing, and so likethey show up halfway through the
speech and they're like whatthe fuck is he talking about
Basically?

Speaker 1 (38:14):
now and this is an insane length of text to just
explain why Jane was now thetrue queen.
And in this explanation it goeson to say that the original
device of succession did haveMary succeeding Edward, followed
by Elizabeth, but since theywere illegitimate, edward made
different arrangements on hisdeathbed.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Oh, which is like.
It's like, oh yeah.
And he whispered into the earof the Duke of you know what I
mean?
Like, come on.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
And so to give you like a little taste as to how
fucking confusing this is, we'llgo into the illegitimacy of
Mary and Elizabeth and liketheir troubleshooting.
And basically this is becausetheir dad fucked around.
So King Henry VIII's daughters,Mary the first and Elizabeth
first, weren't born asillegitimate children by nature.
Their legitimacy was questionedbecause of Henry's messy

(39:09):
history with marriages.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Damn it, Henry.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
He was just having sex all around.
Look man, now you're a king,Well, get this.
So Henry VIII wanted a son andtried to end his marriage with
Mary's mom, Catherine of Ergon,because she didn't give him a
boy.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Because that's how women work.
Only some women give only womenchildren, and some women give
only men children.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
We all know this.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
This is how science works.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
This was before science, before science,
pre-science.
It's BS.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
It's BS before science.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
No.
Now, when the pope was like nodog, this ain't how this is
going to work.
Henry goes all right, I'm done.
And he broke away from theCatholic Church and Rome.
So he broke away from Rome,which was like oh shit, this is
how the Protestant religionstarted.
No, no, no, no, no.
Protestant religion startedlike the 1300s.
This is how Protestantismstarted in England.

(40:03):
It exacerbated it was alwayslike little pockets when it
became official yeah, where itofficially became the reign of
Protestantism Now he broke awayfrom the Catholic Church and
Rome and he started his ownProtestant Church of England and
he divorced Catherine.
Then he married Anne Boleyn,elizabeth's mom, so two separate
moms for him.
But the Catholic Church waslike no, and they didn't accept

(40:25):
these new marriages at all.
And they didn't say that andthey were like no, these shits
ain't valid.
So still considering Henry'smarriage to Catherine to be real
.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Right, the church still considered that.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah.
So some people question if Maryand Elizabeth were really
legitimate because of thesecontroversies.
However, in England, laws werepassed saying both Mary and
Elizabeth were rightful heirs tothe throne despite the messy
marriages.
So legally in England they wereaccepted as legitimate heirs

(40:57):
despite the controversysurrounding their parents'
marriages.
So this is where Henry orEdward, before he died, was like
I think I can write around thisand this is also where
Northumberland is feeding himall the shit and it's like the
snake on the shoulder Right.
What a fucking asshole.
And so technically, because theProtestantism was kicking off

(41:21):
and stuff like they could havegone and done this, but they
didn't get Mary quick enough andMary rallied this shit around
and she was this is what she wasfighting for was like when she
said Parliament and my rightfulbirthplace as the line of
succession, this is what shemeant.
Because of all this shit,parliament was like, yeah, this

(41:41):
is fine.
No, you and your sisterElizabeth are legitimate
successors to the crown.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Right.
So these long three pageannouncements were read aloud by
Haralds and left the peoplepretty much rather
expressionless and confused.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
They're like what the fuck yeah, because they're over
here like.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
God, we really need democracy.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
No, this was a dictator 100% a monarchy Now.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Anytime before, there is typically a celebration that
goes along with theannouncement of a new monarch,
but not this time.
One man named Gilbert Potdecided to speak out against
Queen Jane.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Fucking Gilbert.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
And now for speaking out against the new queen.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
he was promptly arrested and shackled to a
pillory, now a pillory is one ofthose wooden devices where you
get your head and your handslocked through it.
Yeah, while you're standing upand like it's a pork and pop up.
He was throwing tomatoes at you, yeah, yeah, it's just like
you're just standing there andyour hands are in front of you,
like next to your face, and youcan't really move.
You're one of them out there,just locked in there.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Big head, little arm, yeah, so he had his ears nailed
to the.
His ears nailed.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, this is tough.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
He had him nailed to the pillory in order to be
released from it, and he had tosuffer and have his ears cut off
, which is so that, in order toget away from it, he already had
his ears nailed in.
They didn't just take off thenails, they didn't just take
those out, they cut his ears offthey just were like well, I
guess we just have to cut theseout.
Fuck dude.
I'm so happy I'm alive today.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
This was the first hand account, by the way,
written in the diary of merchantHenry Meccan.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
This very same day that Jane had just been
announced as queen, a dispatchshows up to the Tower of London
with a letter from Mary.
This letter is directed to theprivy council, instructing them
to display their loyalty to her,just in right cause.
It basically said how she wouldbe willing to pardon them, but
if they didn't surrender theywould face bloodshed and civil

(43:40):
war.
So basically she was like it'seither me or we're going to fuck
you up?

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yep yeah, that's basically exactly what she did.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
So Northumberland, of course, is fucking outraged by
this letter.
And that evening the privycouncil drafts a letter in
response to Mary's challenge forJane to sign Jane to sign as,
but it was sorry.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Does I keep going?
Yeah, I'm sorry, cuz I wrotethis.
I was just getting excited.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Basically, it was telling Mary to come and take it
.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Ah, but Ian, how do we say this now, come, come and
take it.
Come and take it come on Ian,come and take it.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Now this is the first letter that will show her
signing as Jane the Queen.
I feel like she was coerced.
The same letter that would soonbe used as evidence of treason
against Jane.
Which fucking dude.
This poor girl, yeah, cuz youknow she didn't want to fucking
do that.
She didn't want to.
But the thing is either sheadvocated for Mary to be the
ruler.
She, she, she did everythingright.

(44:42):
It's just there's no phones,there's no internet.
They don't know this from tensof hundreds of miles away.
You know what I mean.
So it's like this.
I just it's tragic, it reallyis very, very tragic.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
We're gonna learn the that man.
Poor Jane man.
She's the reason for her owndemise at the very end.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, she's also 16 and should never have been
fucking Queen.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
But this is well, she's 16 by the time she dies.
She's 15 right now, right, yeah, so now, at this point,
northumberland starts to recruitan army to be ready for a
possible civil war.
Now, at this time, there was nolike Army that was on standby
or anything just paid out of thepeople's taxes is.
What would happen is when, andlike a fight was pumped, coming

(45:30):
up or some kind of war, themonarchs or the royalty and the
nobles would start paying theirpeople, yeah, like, and saying
like, here's your rate to becomea soldier.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
That's where, like the rally, the banners, like
that kind of thing exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, so they would start paying these people like
they're all contractors.
All these soldiers arebasically contract.
Yeah, they're getting paid on adaily rate.
So is what's happening here?
Is Northumberland knows he'sfucked Right or doesn't know
he's fucked.
He just knows that some thiscan be very bad.
And we need a lot of people onour side and people are not
already on our side because theydon't believe in Jane.

(46:05):
They under they, they, they'requestioning.
They're all for Mary, I feel soright, and so is what he does,
is he pays double the amount ofthe daily rate for people to
become part of the War factionhere.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I wish I just had that kind of money sitting
around well, it's all thepeople's tax money.
Yeah, now guys, if you couldjust start paying me taxes, that
would be sick I have a cash atPayPal, whatever you need.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Now, a couple days into being queen, jane was
growing more and more confident.
She started to appear as astrong and assertive woman,
instead of this puppet thatNorthumberland thought she would
be.
When the crown was brought toJane, she was alone and,
according to the Lord Treasurer,he asked her to put it on just
to try it out.
Then the treasurer said that anew crown would be made for

(46:55):
Guild, for since a king needs acrown In that moment, jane said
no, she would make her husband aduke, not a king, which shout
out Jane honestly at 15 yearsold yeah, bravo.
Round of applause.
Now Guilford he heard of thisdecision and he tried to tell

(47:17):
her otherwise, but she stuck toher decision.
She was like nope.
And Guilford said fine, nocrown, no sex, no sex, no
children.
And then he was carted off in afit of rage.
This, this was a huge, decisiveturning point in the succession
crisis.
If Jane had played into thislike Doss I'll puppet role and

(47:40):
given up to the like, given herpower over to Guildford, things
probably would have turned out alittle differently.
For her.
Maybe she wouldn't have gottento the gallows or the Maybe the
off with like maybe because whatshe does at the end it's like
girl, you had a lot of chanceshere, now Northumberland, and
the parents like oh I feel yourpain.
I'm seeing your pain and Ifucking feel for her.

(48:02):
But I'm like stop being stupidnow.
Northumberland and the privycouncil had fucked themselves
over at this point Because atthis point they had expected
Jane to acquiesce the crown toGuildford and they predicted
that Mary would just go silently.
But they were so wrong.
Yeah so wrong and, once again,fucking men thinking that women

(48:26):
are just gonna roll over.
But it's like both of thesewomen are extremely fucking
smart, they're extremelywell-equipped to do these jobs
and it's just well.
I mean, maybe Lady Jane well,jane actually did fine.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
She just I was gonna say Jane would have been fine as
a queen if she had been giventhe chance.
I feel like, yeah, but Maryalso had the right to it.
It was all this familialdispute, this whole.
I want to be king, no, I wantto be king and nobody's talking
about the Queen, right, yeah,now, by Wednesday, july 12th,
mary is gaining support from thelocal people outside of London

(48:59):
at an unexpected pace andleading them through open
country to a fortress thatformed her East Anglian estates.
Mary had two large advantages,one being that, since
Protestantism was fairly new,there were large parts of the
country that still held on tothe traditional Catholic faith
and in Mary they saw a championof the old ways.

(49:20):
The second being that mostpeople in England saw Mary as
the rifle heir.
See, when her father, kingHenry, had died, he had his own
divisive succession that notedout that Mary, then Elizabeth,
would succeed Edward if Edwardwere to die without a male heir.
Most people looked at Jane as ausurper of the Tudor line and,

(49:42):
as a result, an increasingnumber of people were rallying
to Mary's side Protestant andCatholics.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, they were like now this seems it's cuz.
It's crazy, like the dedicationto the crown.
I was just thinking that islike nowadays sounding.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
I feel like now we're seeing a little bit more of
attention being paid to politicsand stuff like that, but ten
years ago, with it, nobody gave,really gave that much of a shit
.
Like I mean, you look at thevoting turnout in the United
States, you know what I mean.
I'm just trying to think oflike, but I guess at the end of
the day, the, the, the kings andthe queens did have a damn
direct effect On the, thepeasantry, on the, yeah,

(50:21):
everyday lives of the people.
So they, they had a Stake inthe matter, so to speak yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
So I guess I would say that a lot of these
Protestants were a lot of thepeople who had converted to
Protestantism right, becausethere was like a regime Put out
there to like you are Protestantor you will die, type of thing
naturally, because Christians,exactly, you got to believe it
our way.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
You can't just believe in our religion, but you
have to believe in it the waythat we believe.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, it's um what was it?
The, the inquisit?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Crusades, crusades the crusades.
Well, the crusades were likeChristians versus non-Christians
.
The inquisition, I feel like,was Christians versus Christians
, right oh?

Speaker 1 (51:04):
God, I think it was more about Jews again.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
I'm testing your knowledge.
I think.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I don't know that's okay.
I'm a state or Kamara.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Marlowe played him in a movie, and then it's there
was a lot of death and basicallyevery Torture museum you ever
go to is gonna be like this ishow this they use this in the
inquisition and it's alwayswomen Always women were being
tortured.
Yeah, and they were witches.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Well, they've always gotten the shit into the shaft.
So while Mary's forces aregrowing Exponentially, the privy
council is sitting in the Towerof London planning their move
against her.
Now what they decided to do wasbe complete and total dip shits
fucking men.
Yeah, they voted to have QueenJane's father, who has no prior

(51:52):
military experience, to lead thearmy against Mary like ah,
blood like oh, she has peasantsas people for her army.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
We have an army of people and so therefore, this no
men, people who is high inability can squash the other
people out in the country andabout as much sense as that made
is about how much sense itmakes.
Thank you for correlating that.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
So back in the day, king Henry continuously chose
not to include Henry Gray in anykind of military Operation
because he knew that he lackedtalent in determination.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
He was a fucking dutch.
They're over here like well ifit's God's will, we'll win.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
So let's just put this fuck wait in charge and
call it good God.
So he wanted things handed tohim on a silver platter.
He never wanted to work foranything.
This is this is obviously HenryGray.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yeah, this is Lady Jane's great dad.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, and now his daughter, jane, sits on the
throne and he is being told thathe will command the army, but
luckily for Henry Gray, janechose to save her father and
replace him with Northumberland,which was a very unknowingly
fatal decision.
Yes with Northumberland goneleading the army, he would be

(53:13):
able to be unable to keep thecoup together, because now he
was the glue between this wholething really was and if he's not
there, nobody knows what thefuck is supposed to be happening
.
Nobody's really in his plans.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
He is a Skilled politician.
Yeah very skilled, like the man, like I said, worked himself
off from a peasant to being Nextto the king, like that is
unheard of he is, which is whatkilled man as big of an asshole
as Northumberland is.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
The Duke of Northumberland is, during this
time, the guide.
You got to give him somefucking credit man, it's got a
brain going from peasantry toroyalty in this time as amazing
that is unheard of.
Yeah, it's the American dream.
It's kidding, I'm just kidding,ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
So it's he's also trying to protect Jane for his
own.
Personal reasons yeah but atthe same time he can't just
divulge that information to Jane.
No, because then it's just thiswhole, because then there's a
risk of Jane being like Well,I'm surrendering the crown to

(54:24):
Mary, because this is just foryour own profit, you fucking
twat, and so he doesn't want tolike you're holding a lie on
both ends, yeah, and you'reskilled enough to do it, but you
can't but you're not goodenough to do it and lead an army
, exactly yeah you can't bedoing that like that's just,
it's not buddy, I have no choice.
No, it doesn't have a choice, sohe's anybody.

(54:46):
He is a very skilled militaryman, so he can actually get this
job done.
Yeah right, he can go up andtake out Mary at this point
because some shit startschanging.
Yeah, so he.
He is the best man for bothjobs.
And the other council are justlike old decrepit man.
They're like the other dudefrom the Game of Thrones.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yeah, the really old guy, that actually.
That is actually just fine.
Yeah, it tends to be old.
Yeah, what a fucking ass.
I fucking hate that guy.
I know he's a war, is pretty.
Such a good actor, such a goodactor.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Now, the funniest part is that while
Northumberland was heading outwith about 3000 men at this
point he expected an applausefrom the local people as they
were departing London.
Because as soon like whenyou're leaving to go to war and
fight for the crown type of athing people are like yes, yes,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
No, no, no, no, no, as he, as they would if they
liked, the royalty and Exactly,and he was met with dead silence
on the streets, crickets.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Thousands of people were literally gathered on the
streets watching these 3000 menin Northumberland lead them.
And it was just Stairs, justangry fucking stairs at him.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
You know as crazy as all these people showed up to
this thing?

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Just nothing better to do man.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Well, except I'm gonna crop survive, I think.
But yes, what's?

Speaker 1 (56:06):
their form of entertainment.
Think of that, yeah execution.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
This is all.
They don't have a movie theater, they don't have a.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
You know I mean they had their gestures and yeah that
, I mean they had plays andtheater and stuff well, peasant
tree, on the other hand, I mean,a lot of them couldn't afford.
Yeah, I mean it wasn't as grandas we can think of it.
You know so, really, at thispoint, it's showing that this
attempted coup was not popularamong literally Everyone who
wasn't a local noble, like allthe nobles and wasn't even

(56:37):
popular with the local nobles.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I just didn't want to say shit about it.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Well, it was.
It was because they were allgaining from the Protestant
grounds so I had money in thisyeah and they were like, yeah,
it's fine, this is fine.
It always comes back to money.
Now, at this time, the tide istruly turning into Mary's favor.
So the country people this isreally cool because the country
people are, you know, they'restill in a Catholicism most of

(57:01):
them are and Also their countrypeople.
They're not in the hustle andbustle of London and these
cities, so they are kind oftreated like the ugly
stepbrother or step kid ofEngland right, and they look at
Mary and also Elizabeth really,as They've also been mistreated

(57:21):
through their lives of likedisownment or, you know, you're
illegitimate.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
They're identifying with her.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
They're identifying with her and they're rallying
behind her cause because they'relike oh, you've been through
some shit and Now they're tryingto usurp you and take, cut you
out of the line of succession.
We're not gonna take that.
We see where we relate to you.
So it's just amazing that, likeshe looks out at these people
at this fort that she's gone toand In she sees all these people

(57:48):
gathering, she's like these arethe people that are gonna keep
me on the crown.
These are the people that aregonna like this is my kingdom.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Well, the entire kingdom is behind her, except
for the ones that Kind ofdirectly can't, because there's
people there that will nail yourears into a yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So the biggest indication that the tide was
turning in Mary's favor was anevent with a well-respected
sheriff of Norfolk and Suffolk,sir Thomas Cornwallis.
What a white name.
Everybody was white in England,I know but except for slaves,
thomas.
Cornwallis.
Now he is currently backingJane because the privy council
had chosen Jane and Was supposedto give Jane a lot, like he was

(58:28):
supposed to give Jane a largeupper hand because he controlled
a military faction in Mary'sterritory, right.
So when someone in amarketplace in Mary's territory
Claimed that Mary is the trueQueen of England, cornwallis
immediately protest thestatement.
And quickly Cornwallis realizesthat he is in Dangerous.

(58:51):
He has dangerouslyunderestimated Mary's influence,
support and popularity amongthe con common people.
He actually begins like panicfor his life that he's about to
be killed by these people.
Yeah.
And he then makes a point ofgetting an audience with Mary
and begs for her forgiveness.
Okay smart guy Okay immediatelylosing, like and think of this

(59:11):
for like the Jane side,northumberland, immediately
losing this huge advantage thatthey have over Mary.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Yeah, 100%, and so this was actually like a really
widespread effect.
For the first time, the commonpeople were actually able to
rise up so quickly andeffectively that it ended up
forcing the nobles andpoliticians to be on the side of
Mary.
They got to dictate the side ofthe like.
What the hell was going on.
They're like it's amazing.
It's really actually kind of acool moment of history.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's a big, big moment.
So, even though Mary has agrowing support of nobles and
countrymen, she does not have atrue military power.
Northumberland has herstrategically surrounded ground
and sea.
But Bad luck slappedNorthumberland right in the
fucking face.
The Navy was parked off thecoast to prevent Mary from being

(01:00:01):
able to make any moves towardsLondon at Jane.
But a very bad storm had comein one evening and forced the
Navy ships to take refuge onshore.
This story man, yeah, one ofMary's men was at a pub
Discussing the Navy ships parkedoff the coast and discovered
that they hadn't been paid inquite some time.

(01:00:23):
So he traveled to where thecaptains of the Navy ships were
taking refuge through the stormand fucking Convinced them to
just switch over to Mary's side.
Hey, what pay you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
you mean, wait a second, I haven't been paid in
two months.
Look, you're paying me like now.
Yeah, we even got beer, bro.
It was just that quick.
One bar conversation flippedthe Navy bro.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Well, that's what humanity has been built off of
our conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Yeah, that's how America was built, goddamn right
.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
So so five of the six ships side, with Mary Imagine
being the one ship.
I think that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
I just don't think they got the news.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Yeah, that's probably Ship was on that ship or
something like that yeah feeling.
That's what happened.
Yes so five of these six shipsended up siding with Mary.
They removed their cannons andmunitions from the ships and
literally dragged them to Mary'sfort where she is preparing for
battle With Northumberland'smen Sick.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Yeah, they're dragging the ship and the
cannons from the ships.
That's so crazy.
The fort like that's.
That's what you did back then.
You just dragged this shitaround.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
I'm over here thinking like where were the
semi trucks?
So now, so now, mary.
She has the coast, the Navy andtrained military men to operate
the cannons in the blink of aneye.
Mary has a much stronger forcethan Northumberland, to thank
God for the storm, honestly,just so worse.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Bad luck for Northumberland because honestly,
he would have probably beenlike good at oh it changed the
would have changed the course ofEnglish history.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
I feel like I think so.
If that had that one fuckingstorm hadn't had.
How many times has thathappened over the course of
human history?
Where a storm?

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Changes the whole shit.
Well, I mean, yeah, roanoke,just us talking like yeah,
Roanoke had that happen.
So with this coup the PerryCouncil were essentially Losing
their shit.
Yeah, I bet they weren't happy.
They were like, oh no, now theywere starting to realize they
had made the wrong move.
Jane, at 15 years old,understood the gravity of what

(01:02:40):
was happening around her andrealize the council was starting
to crack and she couldn'tcontrol them.
So if she couldn't control themshe would lock them into the
London Tower with her and havethe keys to the fort Turned over
to her.
Hmm, so London was put inlockdown and the Tower of London
was preparing for war.

(01:03:01):
Northumberland at this point isgetting pretty close to where
Mary is dug in at our fort andhe decides to wait for some
Reinforcements.
And he happens to wait two daysat Cambridge and during that
time the Navy men had movedtheir cannons to Mary's fort and
Northumberland had no idea.
So the news of the Navy'smutiny did reach the Privy

(01:03:21):
Council in London, but theychose not to send word to
Northumberland.
At this point they are Stronglyquestioning their loyalty to
Jane and to make matters worsefor them, sir Edmund Peckham,
treasurer of the Mint, who is onthe council, has disappeared.
No one knows where Mr Peckhamis, but rumors are not Mr.

(01:03:44):
Peckham, not Mr Peckham.
Where is Mr Peckham Now?
Rumors of where he went arespreading like wildfire.
Reports start to come in thatPeckham has assembled forces in
Oxfordshire, buckinghamshire,berkshire and Middlesex, so
they're just over here like hey,he's fucking everywhere.
Yeah, basically yeah.
And the thing is is that theseforces were not for Jane but for

(01:04:06):
Mary and, if the reports aretrue, that gave Peckham over
10,000 men ready to march onLondon and depose Jane.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
It's a lot of fucking people.
That is a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah, now Jane is frantically writing letters to
powerful landowners and powerfulmobiles is a last-ditch effort
to rally support for her as thetrue Queen.
But these letters are way toolate.
As Northumberland begins tomarch into battle with Mary, he
learns that he is outmannedthree to one and is also
outgunned due to the Navy'scannons.
So instead of carrying on, he'slike nope and he returns back

(01:04:46):
to Cambridge.
Nope, nope.
And his last hope is that theprivy council will rally
reinforcements from the west ofLondon, but he is completely
unaware of the vast changes thathave taken place in the tower.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Dude.
Okay, so I'm starting tounderstand what you're saying
about Jane kind of starting towrite her own funeral, if in the
beginning of her rule, why she?

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
was all about Mary.
Now, why is she not even?
Not even now, not even now likewell.
Here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
So she's like, she's put on this, basically mask of
Queen, and just like this iswhat God has told probably
Because somebody took a fuckingdagger to her throat was like
I'm gonna slit your throat ifyou don't fucking play this role
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
No, I don't think.
I don't think that happened.
I don't think that happened atall.
She very much took this rolebecause when she was pressured
by her parents and she went andconfided in herself and she said
that this was what God hadintended like.
God did this and she is verydevout.
I'm a higher life has done this,and so she's like this is by

(01:05:47):
God's word, this is what I'mgoing to do, and she.
That's why, all the sudden, shestraightened her fucking back
and she told her Guildford, no,you will not be king, you'll be
a Duke, I will be the queen.
God sent this job for me, yeah,and so she has a strong
backbone at this point and she'slike Mary is not to be queen.
God has told me to be queenbecause Cath Catholicism is evil

(01:06:11):
.
Protestantism is the way of theis the way of religion.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
So at this point, members ofthe Privy Council were managing
to slip away from the tower oneby one, and the man that Jane
had been relying on the most inthe council to rally the
reinforcements sinceNorthumberland had left, and he
basically turned his back on hertoo.
This man was the Earl ofArundel, jane's uncle.

(01:06:37):
Jane's uncle, mm-hmm, ownfucking uncle.
I know the 18th of July wouldbe the last day of Jane's reign.
On the 19th of July, the onlyones left by Jane's side are her
father, henry Gray, and herhusband Guildford.
The Privy Council held a secretmeeting after they had all

(01:06:59):
gotten free from the tower anddecided to turn against North
Umberland in order to try andkeep their fortunes and stay
alive.
Of course they fucking did.
The most important thing atthis point for them was to get
this news to marry themselves.
In order to help do this, theyannounced to the people that
Mary was the true queen, whichin turn caused the people to

(01:07:20):
roar and applause, and theybegan to celebrate.
They fucking party, dude.
Yeah, they party.
Damn it, jane, like I feel forthe girl oh, dude, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I mean, it's not a good she was just put into a
shitty situation, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
The council then had a military force go to the tower
and tell Jane's father thatJane was no longer queen and
Mary was to be queen bybirthright.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Oh, and this part's kind of sad because In the
documentary they talk about likehe's there at the gate and he
just like basically shrugs hershoulder and he's like I am all
but one man.
What am I supposed to do?
Yeah it's like I am one managainst a country.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Yeah, I can't do anything.
It's just a dad trying to keephis daughter alive.
You know, I mean, I mean he wasa dick, he was a fucking
asshole, but he still loved his.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
He's still loved his daughter very much.
Yeah, I do believe that,because of what we'll talk about
here in a minute.
Yeah, so Henry's the last onethere, like him and his Guilford
are the last ones theresupporting her.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
She's so crazy.
So Henry Gray went it, which itokay.
I'm sorry, before I get intothis next part, nobody in this
family wanted any part of thisother than the dad, kind of
because that definitely will.
Yeah, yeah kind of power assoon as he saw that there was
responsibility, he was like afuck that shit.
Yeah but Jane didn't want anyof this no.

(01:08:37):
No no fucking start and shejust was like she.
She had her religiousconvictions, which you know.
I'm agnostic.
Whatever religious convictionsthere may be, whatever yeah but
she had her religiousconvictions and she was like
this is okay.
So if I'm in this situation,this is what I got to do.
Yeah, and it just Everybodyleft her side, even though
they're the ones who put herthere.

(01:08:58):
Yeah, that's fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Everyone who put her there has left.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Henry Gray went to tell Jane that she was no longer
Queen and, without a change ofemotion, jane just asked her
father Can I go home now, fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
but I'm.
But no, I know dude, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I know Unbeknownst to Jane, though, this fortress at
the Tower of London had turnedinto her prison.
Jane, her husband and herfather are soon arrested and
imprisoned within the tower, asif it was their fucking idea.
God dude, history sometimespisses me off.
Sometimes, and I didn't knowthis about myself until we

(01:09:42):
started doing this podcast andyou started forcing me to learn
about history- but likesometimes, history just pisses
me off because it's like God.
Mob mentality sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Oh, dude, yeah, that's.
It's a strong course of history.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
It's like and that's so tragic.
Like she's just a little girl,she's 16.
Yeah, she's 16 years old.
If he was in America, she'djust be getting her license.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Yeah, they get that.
All you girls out there gettingyour license, don't listen to
this podcast, oh you people wholisten to this podcast to 30
years ago got your license.
It's just sad man it is.
It's so sad now whenNorthumberland hears the news
that Mary is now the queen andthat Jane has been deposed.

(01:10:24):
He loses it.
He knew that his days werenumbered.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Yeah well, fuck this guy first of all.
First and foremost, fuck you.
Northumberland is an ass rockon for you for coming from
nothing to something.
Awesome.
Cool story, bro, but youfucking suck, you just fucking
suck but I mean, think of this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
So I mean you wonder how many people he fucked over
on the way Well put yourself inhis position.
In this situation, at least heis Protestant.
All of his ties, his power, hislike, everything Ties into
Protestantism.
Edward's gonna die.
He is going to die Whether ornot it is Northumberland

(01:11:03):
actually poisoning him to gethis son there, or whether that
he's realizing that there isthis no-linus succession.
It is all two women who are ofCatholic faith, mary and
Elizabeth right.
Except Elizabeth turns the tide,goes back to Protestantism, but
Mary is gonna be the first oneup, and so he's like well shit,

(01:11:25):
I'm gonna lose everything thatI've fought for my entire life
if this doesn't work.
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
So he does this whole thing.
He went ahead and fucked over a15-year-old in the process.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Honestly, at the end of the day, you have an entire I
blame the storm.
I blame the storm.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
I blame the storm, but you do have the entire
weight of the country on yourshoulders and if you believe
that Protestantism is the way togo forward and you are very,
very, very, very much so in need, that's a habit, because that
is your religious faith.
I see where he's coming from.
At the same time, god if Goddoes exist would never want you
to fuck over a 15-year-old girlin this kind of way.

(01:12:03):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Do you not remember the story of his dad, J-.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Abraham.
Abraham that killed, almostkilled his son.
No, didn't kill him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Didn't kill him.
Yeah, didn't kill him, but hestill put his him in that
mindset to kill his son.
Jane died.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Jane died, Abraham's son did not.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
I will put that difference in there.
All right, that's fair.
Where were you?
God, god, god, I need you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Where's the frost?

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Well here's, oh, you know where.
I know where he was.
He doesn't care about women.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Oh, that's right, that's right, I forgot.
I forgot.
God hates women.
That's why abortion isn'tallowed in America.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Let's go ahead and cross out.
You know what, if we're gonnacross the line, Cooper, let's
just go ahead and fucking crossthe line.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Let's make every.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Christian hate us.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Shout out Christians.
You're not all assholes, justthe ones that we're talking
about.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
So at this point the Preview Council had traveled out
to Mary to beg her for herforgiveness, To get this.
They all got on their knees,they put daggers to their
stomachs, just like the oldfucking Samurais, and they were
like if you want us to killourselves?
We will but we're begging foryour forgiveness.
So she did.
She forgave them all becauseshe had wanted to forgive them

(01:13:16):
all from the very get-go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Well, yeah, mary's not an asshole.
Mary's actually a pretty coolperson, even though she has the
name like Bloody Mary.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
she very much wanted to mend the country together and
bring back Catholicism.
That was one thing very forsure.
But she wanted to forgive themright out of the way.
She, right out of the gate, shesent that letter saying I will
pardon you if you recognize meas the true queen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Yeah To my birthright .
Yeah, that's right and it'sprobably.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
So she does forgive them, but decided to give the
Earl of Arendelle, jane's uncle,one last task to arrest
Northumberland.
When Northumberland was broughtback to London on July 25th,
the streets were packed withpeople throwing rocks at him,
calling him a traitor.

(01:14:01):
Soon after, on August 3rd, maryarrived in London to take
control of the tower, jane wasplaced in one of the officer
houses to be imprisoned withinthe Tower of London's fort, and
her husband, guilford, wasplaced in the Bechum Tower.
Henry Gray ended up beingpardoned because his wife,

(01:14:23):
Jane's mother, was actuallypretty close with Mary and she
had managed to sway Mary thatthis coup was the work of
Northumberland's manipulation,which is true.
On August 22nd, northumberlandwas taken to Tower Hill, which
is outside of the gates ofLondon of Tower.
The London of Tower, tower ofLondon, where thousands of

(01:14:43):
people had gathered InNorthumberland was beheaded.
I believe his head went on apike on London Bridge.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Ah, the London Bridge is falling down, falling down,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
But I'm pretty sure his head went on the London
Tower.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
So they pardoned her dad.
Yep, they fucked upNorthumberland.
So I'm getting the sense here,cooper, that Miss Jane's about
to fuck up.
Yep yep, yeah well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
It's not gonna get great for Jane here, but she has
it, sounds like she has it.
Look at it.
Let's just get into it.
Let's just get into it To meand probably to the listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
It sounds like she has it out here.
I'm interested to see whathappens.
Let's go A few months later.
On November 3rd, jane wasreleased from the Tower for the
first time since she had enteredit as queen for her trial of
treason.
Can you imagine that?

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
That she walked into the Tower of London and never
got to leave again, as it likebefore.
She walked into it as the queenof England and she is now
leaving to go to her fuckingtrial.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, out of shit.
That was not her fault.
Yeah, yeah, not her fuckingfault.
Now, hindsight is 20-20, youknow, and honestly we weren't
there she might've had more toplay in it than meets the eye.
Well, we'll go into it, we'llgo into it.
So this trial or, I'm sorry,this was not a trial where they
were trying to figure out if shewas innocent or guilty.
It was more of a morality play.

(01:16:07):
She wore a black dress and hadher prayer book hanging from her
belt, essentially settingherself up as an example of
Protestant peaty.
She and her husband, guilford,were tried together and found
guilty of treason Together.
Both were sentenced to death.
Jane was to be either burned atthe stake or beheaded, at the

(01:16:30):
discretion of Queen Mary.
Guilford was to be hanged,drawn and quartered.
Now, I'm so excited for you toread this description because,
if those of you who don't know,whoo yeah for those of you who
don't know what this pleasantmethod of execution was, let's
go ahead and just lay it out foryou.
First comes the hanging.
They would hang you almost tothe point of death, because

(01:16:52):
there is that point where youstop struggling but you're still
alive and then remove the rope.
Second was the emasculation,where they would then cut off
the penis and the scrotum Gottaget them both.
Gotta get them both.
And then, third, disembowelment.
That's where you cut open andremove your intestines, which
would then be placed on displayfor the crowd, because this was

(01:17:14):
a crowd activity.
After you just watched yourguts literally leave your body,
they would behead you and thenfinally quarter you, where each
limb is cut away from your torso.
Your remains would then be puton display across the country,
just like the London Bridge,serving as a warning for traders

(01:17:35):
.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Yeah, pleasant, very pleasant right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
How long?

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
ago was this.
This was 500 years ago, that'snot that long, that is not that
long, it's actually not even 500years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
I have been alive for 26 years.
It feels like just yesterday Iwas born.
Let's go ahead and multiplythat by 20.
Here we are, yep Hang drawn andquartered baby.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
That is the way to go .

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
So let's look at the big question here.
Was the 15 year old Lady, janeGray, guilty of high treason?
Legally, absolutely yeah.
She made significant moves asthe act of Queen.
She signed numerous documents,locked her privy council into
the Tower of London.
She sent Northumberland todispatch Mary.

(01:18:24):
She asserted herself as Queen.
So yes, legally Jane was guiltyas fuck Right.
But to everyone's surprise,mary actually fought against
having Jane executed.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
That's a my surprise.
I feel like Mary and Janedidn't have beef.
I feel like there really wasn'tbeef between them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Yeah, I mean.
But it's just kind of one ofthe things where it's kind of
expected Like, hey, we're justgonna execute you as an example.
Now she was to bring like I wastalking about.
She wanted to bring the countrytogether and not divide it
whenever it was possible.
But the problem was Jane.
She would not renounce herProtestant faith and was ready

(01:19:04):
to die for it.
Hmm, mary, leave it to fuckingGod.
Uh-huh.
Now Mary is, of course,re-establishing Catholicism to
the country and bringing backCatholic mass.
Jane is absolutely outraged atthis and describes the Catholic
mass as a satanic cannibalismact and wants people to stand

(01:19:26):
against it and fight.
So she decides to write an openletter to a former tutor of
hers that has converted back toCatholicism and says that the
people should rise against inChrist's war.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
Rise again in Christ's war, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
But Mary still looks past this letter and refuses to
sign off on Jane's death warrant.
So many chances and also didn'tsign off on Gilbert's death
warrant.
They're still both not likesigned to death.
They're convicted, but she hasthe final say.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Yeah, now I will say, like you and I, we have our
opinions on religion, and I'msure that we've made it clear
over the time, like we're not somuch that religion guides our
life, we're not very enthused byit.
Right so?
But for somebody who is, say,jane, who thinks that God put

(01:20:20):
her on the throne, I can see whyshe would do that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
I can see why she would do that.
Yeah, I mean she was devout Tous.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
We're like oh, we would just fucking say ah, fuck
it, yeah, no wait, goCatholicism.
But like to her.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
That's her whole life , yeah, and I mean there's a lot
of fucking other people thatconverted back.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Yeah, yeah, I just signed to the you know, read the
room girl.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
All right when you put it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
You're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
You're absolutely right.
While Jane was still in prison,in January of 1554, another
plot against Mary was forming.
A Protestant man named Thomasor, I'm sorry, thoman Wyatt had
gathered about 4,000 men tomarch on London and remove Mary
from the throne.
Of course, jane probably knewnothing about this, but either

(01:21:09):
way, she was implicated, and itwasn't because of simple
assumption.
It was because of her ownfucking father, who decided to
join and guide these men to tryand overthrow Mary.
I take everything back that Isaid about him.
Yep, damn it, henry.
But you know what?
He's a good dad, he is a greatdad.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Well, he's trying to save his daughter At this point.
He's just trying to save hisdaughter.
He doesn't know what's going on.
You know, yeah, but I don'tknow.
He's pretty high up there inthe nobility, so he probably did
know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
I don't know, the message is traveled a lot slower
back then he doesn't soundsmart.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
He sounds like he can be easily swayed.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
He's a dopey but lovable dad.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I guess so.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Yeah.
So these men did not succeed,and the ones who were captured,
including Henry Gray, her father, were either hanged or hanged,
quartered and drawn.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
They were either hanged or hanged, drawn and
quartered.
So they either got just thenews or they got the news and so
much more.
Yes, Billy Mays here, but wait,there's more.
Billy Mays, Not only are wegonna hang it, we're gonna cut
off your dick and feed it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Hanged, drawn and quartered was specifically only
for men, by the way.
Well, yeah, because men havepenises.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
How can you, how can you draw on a vagina?

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
You don't.
You burn it at the stake, yeahjust like Joan of Arc.
Not Joan of Arc, she was also.
Joan of Arc was schizophrenicman.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
I feel bad for her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Now, what Mary realized with this overthrow
attempt was that Jane had turnedinto a rallying cry for the
rebellious Protestantsthroughout the country, and Mary
could no longer let her live.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day it's.
I don't blame her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
She gave her every fucking chance.
On February 7th 1554, marysigned the death warrant for
Jane and Guildford.
They were both to be executedin five days time.
Guildford would be hanged,drawn and quartered first, and
then Jane would be beheadedafterward.
Executions that were associatedwith the Tower of London

(01:23:14):
happened outside of the castleon Tower Hill in full public
view, so that people could watchjustice being done, just like
it was with Northumberland.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
And so Guildford would be executed in public view
, but Jane was so privilegedthat she was to be executed
behind the castle walls, awayfrom the public view.
She is one of 22 people thatwere executed behind the walls
Ever, ever.
That's crazy In history.
She's one of like six women.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
I mean, at least she got that, At least she got that.
I guess, but you got the otherday.
You're still getting fuckingbeheaded.
Yeah, Would I rather bebeheaded in front of a group of
20 people or a group of 5,000people.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
At the end of the day , it really doesn't matter you
put a blindfold on it, I'm stillgetting beheaded.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm pretty sureyou can't hear the noise, you
know.
Yeah, because you're just earin a panic.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Yeah, I'm sure the adrenaline rush is very real.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
Now, the first hand account of Jane's execution is
written in the Chronicle of theQueen Jane, written by someone
who is present in the Tower.
Jane was nothing at all abashedwith fear of her own death,
neither with the sight of thedead carcass of her husband.
She came forth with thelieutenant leading her in the

(01:24:31):
same gown she had reigned.
Neither her eyes moistened withtears, although two gentle
women wonderfully wept.
Jane carried a book in her handand she prayed all the way till
she came to the scent scaffold.
Now, another source within theChronicle says that she came to
her execution with the greatestfortitude and godliness.

(01:24:54):
On February 12th 1554, the axefell and Jane was beheaded in
one clean stroke.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Hey, good aim on the executioners part.
Yeah, typically it's like twostrokes, three strokes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
Yeah, we could talk about at some point something of
executioners, but typicallythey would pay the executioners
a little bit so that it would bedone in one clean stroke
instead of making it very bad.
It's like a bonus.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
It's like a bonus that they get a commission.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Oh yeah, because I mean they're looking at them and
they're like I don't know,maybe it'll come down in one
clean stroke, maybe it'll take afew.
I don't know.
My pocket's feeling a littlelight today, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
That's so dark, it's so fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
The life of an executioner is gnarly man.
And did you know?
Executioners?
They got the first choice as tothe wardrobe of the dead.
Oh, so, because typicallypeople would show up to their
execution and their finestattire.
Yeah, but that covers the neck.
No no no, no, no, no.

(01:26:05):
It's just like a shirt and agown, Like there's not the puffy
shit and whatever.
They take all that it needs tobe a clean I want to make sure
it's a clean head, but theexecutioner so if they're like
you wore a very nice shirt orsomething in your mail, the
executioner would just take yourshirt.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
That is now your shirt.
Oh, that's what you mean.
Like he would just get theirclothes.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
He got whatever he want.
He got first right of refusal.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Yeah, to be fair, and who else would you give it to?

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
I mean shit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Yeah, it's yeah.
Executioners are crazy world.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
Now, if you go to almost any website to read about
Lady Jane Graham, you will seea more descriptive, heartfelt
story that was crafted after herdeath in order to make her the
perfect Protestant martyr by anunderground Protestant press.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Yeah, this is everywhere.
So when I found this out at theend of the documentary on the
real truth history on YouTube,these historians are talking
about it and this is literallyon every website and it's crazy
why it's on every website.
But if you go to like Wikipedia, if you go to literally

(01:27:12):
thetoweroflondoncom, it is.
This is the way that she diesand it's a good story.
But it's not real.
Take it over, it's.
It's do this next part yeah,it's.
This is all to make her more ofa martyr, essentially.
So what it says is shall I saythe Psalm?
And he says yes.

(01:27:33):
Then she said the Psalm ofMiseré Maudisse, which is Psalm
51.
I don't know how to pronouncethat.
I think it's French for somereason.
I don't, I could be totallywrong, I don't know.
Anyways, and she said thisPsalm in English in the most
devout manner to the end.
Then she stood up and gave hermaid, mistress Tindley, her

(01:27:55):
gloves and handkerchief In herbook to master Thomas Bridges,
the Lieutenant's brother.
The hangman then kneeled downand asked her forgiveness, whom
she gave most willingly.
Then he willed her to standupon the straw, which doing she
saw the block and then she saidI pray that dispatch me quickly.

(01:28:17):
Then she kneeled down, sayingwill you take it off before I
lay me down, referring to herhead.
And the axman answered no,madam.
She tied the handkerchiefaround her eyes.
Then, feeling for the block,she said what shall I do?
Where is it?
And one of the standards byguided her there unto.

(01:28:39):
She laid her head down upon theblock and stretched forth her
body and said Lord, into thyhands, I commend my spirit.
And so she ended.
So this was historically editedin 1850.
1850 by historian John GoffNicholas, because he had seen

(01:29:04):
the French painter Paul DelRoche's painting of Lady Jane
being shown where the block waswhile blindfolded.
And this painting, it waspainted 250 years after her
death.
And this painting is.
It's a beautiful painting, butit is completely wrong.
The only thing that is correctwithin this painting is the
straw that's on the fuckingground.

(01:29:24):
It shows that she's in thecellar and her mom's behind her,
all passed out, and that thehangman's just chilling there
and there's this priest helpingher find her hands.
It's completely fiction andromanticized, yeah.
And so this historian, johnGoff Nicholas, decides that this
is fact.
He's seen this beautifulartwork and so he.

(01:29:46):
Actually I didn't knowhistorians had this power, but
apparently his word is law ofhistory.
They don't have this power, butthis man did In 1850, well, okay
, they don't have this poweranymore.
He changed the text surroundingthe circumstances of her death
and that blew me the fuck awaybecause it is.
Whatever he changed is like, Iguess, law of the archives

(01:30:14):
Interesting.
It's crazy.
And all these modern historiansare like that's not right,
that's not how it went.
Yeah, that is not anythingclose to how it went at all.
She went very brave, verystrong, very assertive, very
like I am dying for my cause,which honestly go Fucking
gung-ho girl, like props to you,I guess you know like you could

(01:30:35):
have averted death.
You could have just saidalright, I'm going to
Catholicism, I'm still prayingto God I just got to talk to a
pope now, but Like it's just, Idon't know, it's crazy, like
this is so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Yeah.
So when Queen Mary the firstascended the throne after Lady
Jane Gray, she aimed to restoreCatholicism in England.
After the short-livedProtestant rule of Jane Gray,
mary, a devout Catholic, soughtto reverse the religious reforms
initiated by her father, henrythe 8th.
I'm getting better at Romannumerals.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Yes, you are so proud of you, I know and her
half-brother, edward the 6th.
She aimed to reestablish theauthority of the pope and the
Catholic Church in Englandduring her reign, which lasted
from 1553 to 1558 we will do anepisode on bloody Mary, because
such a long rain five wholeyears and she fucked some people
oh yeah, dude Mary, okay, likeshe was cool in this story, but

(01:31:28):
they haven't she wild?

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Yes, so Mary Implemented policies aimed at
reinstating Catholicism.
She repealed Protestant laws,restored papal authority and
Returned to England to communionwith Rome.
Her efforts includedsignificant persecutions of
Protestant dissenters, earningher the nickname bloody Mary due

(01:31:51):
to the Executions of numerousProtestant leaders and adherents
.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
Yeah, it was pretty rough, yep, mary.
Mary's marriage to Philip II ofSpain was also part of her
attempt to strengthen Catholicties and restore Catholicism in
England.
However, this marriage and herreligious policies faced
opposition and led to discontentamong many in the in England,
because he's from Spain andSpain was like England's enemy.

(01:32:18):
Yeah, especially like.
Yeah, you know, like the, youknow the piracy is Spain, in
England and they're fightingeach other like.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
It was more like.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
Now, mary's reign was marked by religious turmoil and
and a struggle for religiousdominance.
Her efforts to restoreCatholicism were met with
resistance and Her reign endedupon her death in 1558, despite
her intentions.
The subsequent reign of herhalf-sister, elizabeth the first
, marked a return toProtestantism and a reversal of

(01:32:59):
many of Mary's religiouspolicies.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Jane's impact lies in being a pawn in the power
struggles of the time, caughtbetween conflicting religious
and political interests.
Her attempted reign symbolizedthe fragility of succession
rules, religious tensions andthe struggle for power within
the Tudor era.
Though her rule was short-lived, jane Gray's place in history

(01:33:28):
is notable as a figurerepresenting the complexities of
female succession, religiousstrife and the shifting dynamics
of power during the Tudorperiod.
Her legacy as the nine daysQueen Remains a mournful episode
illustrating the intricatepolitical landscape and

(01:33:50):
challenges of succession in 16thcentury England.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Bam Isn't that crazy?
Is it her story crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
It's short, but it's crazy.
It's crazy there's.
What's wild is that this islike the shortest time span I
think that we've ever covered inan episode.
Absolutely, look at where we'reat.
Oh my god, I know the recordingtime on this episode, we'll do
some editing, it'll probably bearound the same time or a little
bit longer than an hour.

Speaker 1 (01:34:16):
30.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
Yeah, but but we?
We have spent almost two hoursrecording this episode and we've
never done that before.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
Yes, so that's kind of part of the reason of like
why it's a day late is becauseI'm sick.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
If you can't tell, Cooper might have forgotten to
edit out a few coughs here andthere, and I got Cooper sick, so
I'm still kind of sick and sowe're both sick, we're out of
town and it was like, yeah, likethis story was too good not to
tell, right?
no, and I'm happy that you didbecause, honestly it's there's
not a lot of.
Okay, I'm sorry there is a lotof things in history that

(01:34:50):
fucking pissed me off.
But this one genuinely pissedme off, like, yeah, just the
situation that this poor girlwas put into and she really did,
to her credit, try her best,and I have to put myself in the
shoes of somebody who's veryreligious and be like, yeah, if
I believed in something thatmuch, I'd probably be willing to
die for it too.
Yeah, and so the fact that sheat such a young age I'm ten

(01:35:14):
years older than she was whenshe passed yeah, and and and,
for somebody to have that kindof conviction at that age Just
is a testament to how strong ofa human this person really was
she might have fucked up, butthat's due to her being 16 years
of age yeah, that's not due toher any, any character fault.
That's just due to lack ofexperience, you know, and she
died for it.

(01:35:34):
That's what sucks.
Yes, pisses me off.
Man Fucking Northumberlandasshole.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
Oh, that fucking piece of shit, he's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Great rags to riches love that.
Yeah, hey, what he did with it,but I love that he did it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
All right, so what do we got to do here?
Um, ladies and gentlemen, bythe way, we are going to take a
break in January.
Yeah, I am going to be out oftown like a lot or your land.
I'll be an oil and see in mylady friend.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
Say Ireland, I guess.
Everyone knows that we'reactually talking about Ireland
and not some random place andit's just we won't be able to
deliver the same quality.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
So we're still gonna give you Episodes throughout
December, but then there will bea little sabbatical in January.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Yeah, so I'll be hanging out at home with the
cats while Cooper gets to lookat the cool Irish mountains.
Yeah, don't go yeah don't go.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Yeah, I'm gonna get to see the cliffs of Ireland
fucking hate me I see, I'm gonnasee castles and I see Dublin.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
I'm gonna see Galway.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
I'm gonna see Cliffs.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
I'm just gonna be here, I'm gonna see really cold
fucking water taking, takingcare of the cats.
That's what I'll be doing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
But yeah, when we come back in February that we
have a fucking plan.

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
Cooper is working so hard on it, and I can't wait to
reap the benefits.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
That's a book.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
He's got this novel on his desk about what we're
gonna be talking about.
We can't tell him.
I know I've got a coupleepisodes to lead into it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
We got some really fun episodes coming up.
Yeah, I'm so excited to like dothose ones.
Yeah, they definitely won't beas long as this one, but they're
gonna be very fun.
End of the year, you know likethank you for sticking with this
through shit.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Cooper, we've been around like seven months now.
Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
Okay, not a year, not as close.
I thought, maybe nope.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
No, god, it seems like a fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
Yeah, we're gonna do that.
But thank you, ladies andgentlemen, for kind of bearing
with us and your patience forthe day late episode and my
sickness and all of that stuffand Ian sickness.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Are you down with the sickness oh?

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
Sorry, we'll get copyright stricken with by
perfectly in tune voice.

Speaker 1 (01:37:58):
All right, ian.
What do you got to say to theoh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
follow us on all the socialBullshit's.
Go to drinking our way throughhistory, calm, and you can
follow us all there.
Ian, what do you have to say tothe kids?

Speaker 2 (01:38:07):
Well, guys, if you made it this far in the episode,
first of all, I know for a factyou're out there doing
something just to listen intothis in the background and I
appreciate the shit.
You are a goddamn Champion andwe couldn't ask for nothing more
.
Make sure you hit those likebuttons, those subscribe buttons
, all that bullshit, because itreally does help us out.

(01:38:28):
Cooper puts a lot of effortinto these episodes and I put
about 20 minutes of effort intothese episodes until we record
it, so we really do appreciateit at the from the bottom of our
hearts.
So thank you so much, andCooper, what else?

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
stay beautiful Bitches cuz.
We fucking love you.

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Episode 29: Lady Jane Grey - A Nine Day Reign

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 29: Lady Jane Grey - A Nine Day Reign