Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
For Gen Z and for other generations, business is
the most trusted institutionacross both ethics and
competence.
So the permission for businessand brands to act, to be
partners for change for Gen Zhas never been more.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello friends, old and new, and welcome to Drinks
with Caroline.
I'm so happy you've joined mefor what I believe will be
another stimulating conversationwith an industry expert,
founder or otherwise fabulousperson in the consumer industry,
amanda Edelman.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for Drinks with
(00:41):
Caroline.
I am drinking a Celsius becauseit's early morning and it's a
brand I'm fond of.
I'm on the board of the company, which has been a great journey
.
What are you drinking?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
this morning I'm drinking chamomile tea.
I have to say slightly less funthan what you're drinking, but
I've already had my coffee, sotrying to keep it a little calm,
great.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, we're just really so happy to have you here
.
I heard you speak on anExtraordinary Women on Boards
call and you are the ChiefOperating Officer of Gen Z Lab
for Edelman, as well as theDeputy GM of the Chicago office
helping companies withcommunications and various other
(01:23):
things.
But I was so impressed with theway you presented the Gen Z
findings and the fact thatyou've done this in the past and
I just thought it was sointeresting.
I wanted to bring that to myaudience and I think it's
important to think about howthis influences the way
companies should be innovatingin the beverage segment as well
as across the board in consumer.
So could you tell us a littlebit about the study, how many
(01:45):
people, and your findings?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, absolutely Well.
First off, I just want to say ahuge thank you for having me.
This is very lovely, and Idefinitely have a beverage, or
multiple beverages, on methroughout the day.
You know you go from coffee towater to tea, all sorts of
different beverages throughoutthe day, so I'm glad I have a
forum at least to discuss whatI'm drinking.
That really is the importantpoint to get across.
(02:09):
But no thank you again forhaving me and maybe I'll just
take a little step back before Igo into some of the findings to
really contextualize theEdelman Gen Z Lab, what we've
been doing and what we've beenseeing since we launched.
We are the largestindependently held
communications firm in the world, been around for over 70 years,
we operate in 60 differentmarkets and, on top of that, we
(02:32):
have something called the TrustBarometer that we have done for
the past 25 years and itmeasures trust in institutions
across the world.
The reason I'm mentioning thisis because this is highly
relevant to why we launched theGen Z Lab in the first place
three and a half years ago andthe reason that we launched the
Gen Z Lab with Edelman's GlobalBrand Officer, jackie Cooper.
She and I co-founded the labtogether.
(02:54):
The reason that we did this isbecause we heard from so many of
our clients across many, manydifferent industries that they
were all very concerned aboutGen Z industries, that they were
all very concerned about Gen Zand, on one hand, there was this
tremendous excitement aroundthis large and growing potential
consumer population with alifetime of brand loyalty ahead.
But at the end of 2021, societywas undergoing a lot of changes,
(03:16):
particularly in the West, andso there was this enormous fear
for our clients of saying ordoing the wrong thing and
getting canceled Again.
End of 2021 was sort of primecancel culture, and so, as a
result, a lot of our clientsfelt paralyzed.
They wanted to do something thatearned the trust and loyalty of
this generation, but they feltthat the force of errors or the
(03:38):
potential backlash almostoutweighed the potential gain.
And so we sort of recognize thisparalysis in our clients and
we're like we have to help them,we have to have them do
something, we have to sort ofhelp them navigate this moment,
and so we launched the Gen Z Labofficially in June 2022, but
powered by data that we hadcollected earlier in the year,
(03:58):
with the simple mission to helpour clients effectively engage
with Gen Z, and since then ithas been tremendously fun.
It's been really amazing,through our reports, through our
IP, to really keep our fingeron the pulse of this generation
and, through that, reallyunderstand and get under the
skin of some of the broaderchanges that we're seeing in the
(04:19):
world, because Gen Z really isbehind so many of these large
societal changes, whether it'saround changing workplace norms,
whether it's around changingcultural norms and, in
particular, the ways thatbusinesses and brands interact
with their consumers, with theirbroader audiences.
A lot of it is sort of shapedby Gen Z, because they really
are these arbiters of culture.
So that's sort of the bigpicture perspective that I
(04:41):
wanted to provide before reallyreally diving into this sort of
specific report.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So when you did this the first time several years ago
, what were some of the keyfindings?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It was fascinating.
So, I have to say, we had somehypotheses about what we would
find when we did this at the endof 2021.
And then we did it across sixdifferent markets US, uk, france
, germany, china and Mexico toreally get a sort of global
understanding rather than just aWestern understanding.
You know, we had somehypotheses of who Gen Z were.
(05:13):
We're starting to hear and talka lot about cancel culture,
tiktok from COVID had justreally risen, and so we thought
that there would be, you know, alot about influencers and
creators.
What we found was totallydifferent and very surprising
for us, and there were a few keypoints that really rose from
the data.
Number one was that Gen Z hasthis visceral need for safety
(05:34):
and security that was acrossevery single market, and this
was several years ago and thiswas at the end of 2021.
Exactly, exactly.
I'll give a little spoiler andsay that that visceral need for
safety and security has verymuch remained in them.
That's still very much adefining force for them, but
this was several years ago.
And again, for several yearsago, when we first did the
(05:55):
report, this generation wasbetween 12 and 27,.
Right, they're really, reallyyoung.
The median age of that is 19,19 or 20.
So it's a really, really youngpopulation and it was quite
heartbreaking actually at thetime to get all this data back
and say, wow, fear is really adefining element for them,
anxiety is a defining elementfor them.
Again, all going back to thisneed for safety and security,
(06:17):
and what was an interesting sortof sub point through that, is
that Gen Z has started to definesafety and security in a
holistic way.
It's not just about physicalsafety Do I feel safe walking
down the street at night?
It's about emotional safety.
It's about health and wellness.
They really are starting tothink of sort of their full
safety and full sense of self ina way that is different from
(06:38):
other generations and in a waythat just came through every
single facet of the data.
So that was finding number one.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, and to that point, I think that bullying is
one of the things that make themfeel unsafe.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Right, exactly, and again, if we sort of put
ourselves back in the end of2021, tiktok had just taken off.
Of course, other social mediaplatforms, you know, have been
around for the past decade, ifnot longer, but TikTok had
really taken off.
So that's exactly it, caroline.
Past decade, if not longer, butTikTok had really taken off.
So that's exactly it, caroline.
Is Gen Z is responding to theworld around them and sort of
(07:10):
what they're seeing, and sothey're seeing threats to
themselves, not just physically,but also emotionally with
respect to bullying.
So that's why they're startingto define the need for safety
and security in that 360 way.
It's because they feel attackedin an almost 360 way, which I
know sounds insane, but it cameso clearly through the data and
part of the reason for this.
Again, if you think back to2021, this generation had just
(07:33):
been traumatized, frankly, byCOVID.
I mean, every generation was.
But imagine if you are 17 yearsold, or you're 21 years old,
you're 13 years old and all of asudden, you're torn from your
life as is forced to go onlinefor many, many years.
How this affects adolescentsand young people is so much more
seismic than how it affectedeveryone else.
(07:53):
Everyone else was able to goback to normal, but for Gen Z
that became their normal.
The world in COVID became theirnormal, and that's something
that we see now in the data aswell, sort of skipping ahead a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think that insight you just provided helped reframe
it for me, because it's so easyfor any human being to just
think of a major event like thatthrough your own lens,
especially if you didn't haveschool age kids at the time so
mine were in college by then.
But the impacts are foreverfrom that sort of trauma and, as
you'll go on to describe, thekids are not all right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes, exactly.
So I'll sort of, you know, justjump through so that we can get
to the good stuff, which iswhat the heck is happening today
.
To sort of recap what we foundat the end of 2021, it was
visceral need for safety andsecurity.
Gen Z was deeply unified, evenacross markets.
You'd expect there to be morevariation between American
versus Chinese Gen Zers not atall.
(08:47):
And then the third thing isthat we found that they were a
generation who prioritized weover me.
They were all about collectiveaction.
They were all about community.
Again, you think to the end of2021, people were coming
together to try to create socialchange.
They really believed in thepower of we and they mobilized
around the power of we.
So that was sort of thesnapshot at the end of 2021.
(09:09):
And that actually remainedquite consistent for the next
couple of years is sort of right.
If we need to distill Gen Zdown to their essence, it's
these three things right.
It really remaining.
We started to see some changesto that, actually starting about
a year ago, and the beginningof this change was starting to
see the rise of sort of farright Gen Zers, particularly Gen
(09:31):
Z men, in the US and acrossEurope and across various other
markets.
I think Gen Z sort ofstereotypically is known as okay
, they're super left wing,they're super progressive, and
that generally was the case in alot of different countries, not
just the US.
But starting about a year ago,we began to see some changes in
that political orientation andso we started to keep our ear to
(09:53):
the ground more, because wethought that might portend some
changes in the psyche of thisgeneration.
And really a conclusion we wereright is some things have
changed around this generationand as a result, we commissioned
a report based on the findingsof Edelman's Trust Barometer for
this past year.
(10:14):
Just because, as I mentioned, wedo a Trust Barometer every year
We've done it for the past 25years and it measures trust in
institutions around the worldbusiness, government, media,
nonprofits and we do that againto sort of understand what's the
world headline right now, whatis the prism through which we
should see the world.
And for this past year, for allgenerations, the theme was
(10:34):
around grievance.
There's a rise in grievance anda resentment towards people who
are perceived to have more thanyou or sort of be powerful in
society and, as a result, anaccompanying feeling of
hostility or zero-sum mindset.
That was something we saw veryclearly in the data, and the
numbers were highest for Gen Z.
They feel the most aggrieved ofall generations, they feel the
(10:55):
most hostile, they feel the mostzero-sum, which is shocking.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, it's so interesting.
I've been thinking about thatword, grievance and I have no
idea if the root is from grief.
I assume it might be.
But if I think about what achildhood is supposed to be and
what your school experience issupposed to be and what your
college experience is supposedto be, it makes total sense to
me that there is real griefaround the fact that that's gone
(11:20):
and you never get it back.
So I found it a veryinteresting word.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think that's so right and I might steal that if
I'm honest, because I think thatframes it so well.
I think that frames it so welland I think that's why nostalgia
as a theme has become soprominent in culture in the past
few years, and for Gen Z inparticular.
They're nostalgic for eras theynever lived through.
It's kind of this idealizedversion of life in the 80s or
90s or even early 2000s,pre-social media,
(11:52):
pre-communication norms.
Today.
I think you're so right.
They're grieving for a worldalmost in which they never lived
, but which they see throughculture, tv media, but which
they see through culture, tvmedia.
I think that's absolutely right, as many of them are sort of
grieving for the state of theworld today and almost like this
lost innocence or lostchildhood.
(12:13):
I think I think so.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
In beverages Olipop and Poppy, for example very fun,
very colorful packaging hasemerged where, if you think to
traditional soda red, blue, drPepper's maroony red very
different packaging, look andthrowback, a lot of throwback.
There are brands that aregetting it and they're seeing
the benefits.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I think that's so right, and I'm going to put a
pin in that because I want toalso sort of contextualize some
of the findings that we had.
And then one of the points thatwe found is highly is very
relevant for this.
So I want to take a step backagain and sort of say, right, so
we commissioned this reportbecause we saw this really
alarming data of Gen Z is highlyaggrieved, combined with the
(12:57):
fact that we, with our ear tothe ground, we're starting to
see some changes, sort of in thepsyche of this generation.
And so we did another reportwhich we just released, which
exactly, caroline, as you said,I presented to this group
Extraordinary Women on Boards,and it piqued your interest.
So great.
But really what we found in thisgeneration is a fundamental
shift.
They have become the megeneration Instead of the we
(13:22):
generation.
They've gone from we to me, andin some ways it makes sense,
because if you have a visceralneed for safety and security, if
you feel like you're beingattacked in that sort of 360 way
that we described, of courseyou're going to become about
yourself because you need toprotect yourself.
And that's what a lot of Gen Zfeels like is they feel this
need to protect themselves fromthe forces in the world.
(13:43):
Whether that's economicinstability, whether that's the
threat of AI taking their jobsthey are more scared about AI
than any other generation.
Whether it's becausehomeownership has become out of
reach, there is this enormousfeeling of oh my gosh, I am not
all right, the future is not allright for me.
And it's exactly as you said,caroline.
One of our headlines was thekids are not all right and so,
(14:07):
as a result of that, the call toaction for business has never
been higher because, frankly,the world, young people, need
business to step up and I get alot of questions from clients
around well, is it safe?
Are we going to get backlash?
And part of why we look attrust and sort of trust in
institutions is to understandwhat is the permission space for
(14:28):
businesses, for our clients toact, and for Gen Z and for other
generations.
Business is the most trustedinstitution across both ethics
and competence, so thepermission for business and
brands to act, to be partnersfor change for Gen Z has never
been more.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And that's more trusted than government.
What are you measuring against?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
From a methodology perspective A, we'll just ask
the question.
I trust this institution, soit's fundamental.
And then we also have a two bytwo across ethics and competence
.
Ethics being I believe this isan ethical institution.
Competence being OK, I believethis institution can get done
what it promises to get done,and so, as an example,
nonprofits tend to be moreethical but less competent, and
(15:10):
so, over time, actually a macrotrend that we've seen in the
past five years is businessactually rise to be the most as
a net score, to be the mostcompetent and ethical compared
to any other institution.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So more ethical than traditionally the most ethically
viewed institutions.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And so really, what we found is sort of distilling
the state of the world.
For Gen Z, we find there to bethree forces that are
predominantly creating this sortof destabilization and anxiety.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Number one is fear.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
The world has become a very scary and sort of
pressure-filled place for Gen Z.
Number two is misinformation.
There's so much informationcoming at Gen Z from all these
different angles.
How do you verify what's true,what's not, when sort of former
authority figures and sources ofauthority have become much less
top-down, it's much more sideto side?
And then number three isdisconnection.
(16:03):
This is really going tosurprise no one, but all these
article headlines we see aroundGen Z, mental health, Gen Z
loneliness it's all about thisfeeling of disconnection for Gen
Z, really disrupted by COVID.
So these are the three keyproblems that Gen Z is facing
right now.
As a result, we have started totalk to a lot of our clients
(16:24):
around calls to action to solvethose three problems.
So, in order to move from fear,you need to provide that sense
of safety and security right,that visceral need for safety
and security that I talked aboutbefore.
That absolutely remains.
So business needs to do that.
In order to combatmisinformation, you need to be
transparent.
You need to sort of have thesereally authentic channels of
(16:47):
communication and ensure thatyou're saying the same thing
between those channels, becauseGen Z with social media, they're
able to see everything.
So you have to be extratransparent.
And then the last one, whichthen goes, I think, the most
back to the beverage sector andI would love to hear your
thoughts on this is as anantidote to disconnection.
As a business and brand, youhave to provide a sense of
(17:07):
community and connection foryour consumers.
I think the most popular brandsright now, the ones who are
tapping into culture, do justthat.
They've created a communityaround their followers, around
their customers, making themfeel like they belong to
something bigger than themselves, which is a human need, but
particularly for Gen Z, theydesperately need it right now.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think it's fascinating and it makes me
optimistic, because I do thinkif business is trusted to fill a
space and avoid, that meansthat there are wonderful growth
opportunities.
And if I overlay the health andwellness trends, the
understanding we have from beingable to hack our bodies now, of
how what we put inside usaffects it's at least something
(17:50):
we can control, because there'sso much that feels out of their
control.
And I'm laughing because I hadBrandy Rand on talking about why
people drink.
She's an expert in thealcoholic beverage space and she
was talking about you know, doyou drink for energy?
Do you drink for relaxation?
Do you drink?
Well, now it's like do I drinkfor safety?
(18:10):
Oh, we're going to have a drinkcalled safe.
It's just the mood need.
And I do think as you talk toyour clients, you're presenting
them with solutions to what canfeel like a very overwhelmingly
challenging environment.
So that's the upside, and I'mso happy to see this work done,
because the more we peel backthe layers, the more you see the
(18:32):
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I'm so glad that you've said that and that you've
picked up on that, just because, frankly, when we got back to
the data, we had a moment wherewe kind of looked at each other
and we're like, oh shoot, thisis really bad, this is a crisis,
and I think for us it wasreally important to end in an
optimistic space so thatbusinesses, so that our clients,
(18:54):
felt like they could dosomething about it, because they
should and they need to, and soI'm so glad that you've come
out of this feeling a sense ofoptimism.
You might be the only one,because normally, when I talk
about it or present it.
People kind of have their headin their hands and they're like,
oh my God, what is happening?
The kids are not all right.
It's really true.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I've had a couple of weeks to think about it, because
when I was first listening Iwas like, oh, this is horrible.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
As I think about it.
Let me just take the industryas an example.
You could look at carbonatedsoft drinks and say, well,
everybody's moving away fromsugared colas and yet Coke has
found a way to grow its business, dr Pepper's found a way to
grow its business, and Poppy andOlipop have been created to
grow businesses.
The energy category has come tolife.
So there are need states we canaddress.
(19:39):
The other thing coming out ofthe fact you said they don't
believe they can buy a home andI had my own kids say that to me
, mom our standard of living isnot going to be as good as yours
I'm like that's a terribleattitude.
That's a terrible attitude.
Let's have an optimisticattitude, but the fact is, if
they're not saving for theirhouse, they are spending on
their bodies.
They can control what they putinto their bodies.
They can be part of a communityby carrying a brand that says
(20:02):
something about them and theirvalues.
And so there's alwaysopportunity, there's always the
silver lining, and I wish wecould also help alleviate that
fear and that mental anguish.
So it reminds me you weretalking about some of the brands
that are thriving.
Can you talk about that, likewhy you think Rare Beauty is
doing well?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yes, exactly.
So I think Rare Beauty is abrand.
They're like checking every box.
They're doing an amazing job.
Cynically, when I've given thisexample, some people say, oh
yeah, it's because they're ownedby Selena Gomez.
You know, she's the mostfollowers on Instagram.
Of course, it's going to bepopular.
Obviously, that helps.
(20:41):
I am not discounting howimportant that is.
That being said, there are alot of other celebrity brands
that have not done nearly aswell.
So it's the combination of yes,they have, of course, a famous
founder, but also they stand forsomething For Rare Beauty.
They are very focused on mentalhealth.
That aligns with Selena Gomez'smental health struggles that
she's talked about, and theyalso have a fund.
(21:01):
They're not a client.
So I feel you know I promisethis is not, you know, a
personal pitch they really arejust an amazing example of a
company who is doing everythingright, but they have a fund that
they donate I believe 1% ofrevenue to that supports mental
health for their employees.
(21:23):
I believe, as well as thegeneral public, and that's also
really important is that Gen Zand people overall they care how
you treat your employees.
If you're not walking the walkin your own backyard, how can I
trust you to do that morebroadly, know more broadly, and
so, again, I think they've donea really excellent job at
standing for something and notonly that, making that known
through very strong actions thataffect their different
communities.
So it's trustworthy.
(21:44):
You know, it's not just lipservice, they really are walking
the walk, not just talking thetalk.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I'll give an example Athletic Brewing, and I'm on the
board of that as well.
I'm genuinely impressed by thefact that they have been giving
they call it two for the trails,but $2 million to support local
running and biking trails,because the whole birth of the
brand came from.
I want to live in a healthierway.
If I'm drinking alcohol allthrough the night or starting
(22:12):
early in the day, I don't alwaysfeel my best and I want to have
something that makes me feelpart of a group.
So the athletic beer brand issomething you can feel proud to
carry in your hand, but it'snon-alcoholic and so, tying in,
I want to be able to cycle.
It was founded by an athlete.
I want to be able to be part ofthis community and then giving
something to their community, sovery local activation.
(22:33):
Coca-cola has been doing thisfor decades all over the world,
ingraining the brand withintheir communities by sponsoring
local events and so on, and, youknow, providing water when
there are water shortages, andAnheuser-Busch does the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
For Coca-Cola.
As an example, I remember thecampaign they did 15 years ago,
10 years ago.
That was share a Coke with X,share a Coke with Alex, share a
Coke with Sam, you know whomever.
They have been creating acommunity and create and using
their product to help peopledevelop relationships.
That is so smart.
Campaigns like that are exactlywhat the world needs now, in
(23:08):
conjunction with, as we'retalking about, whether it's
donations or sort of tangibleimpact in that area, but things
that bring people together.
For me, I think that is themost important and relevant
thing that a company or brandcan do, and obviously it helps
your bottom line.
As you say, coca-cola is doingvery well right now.
They've managed to grow in atough category, so I think
(23:30):
that's spot on.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Perfect example.
You, I think, talked about thefact that you've done the survey
in multiple countries and I'mwondering if you're seeing any
differences in emerging versusdeveloped countries and anything
you want to highlight.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yes, 100%.
So I mentioned that when we didthis survey a few years ago, we
found that Gen Z were veryunified and our hypothesis
around that was the continuedrise of social media,
particularly TikTok, makingtrends global right.
If you think about Koreanskincare and the movie Parasite
I'm just using Korea as anexample but like Korean skincare
(24:03):
, k-pop, k-dramas like that hasjust exploded onto the global
scene and it has been for awhile, but it's really been
accelerated by social media.
So, as a result of social media, culture has gone global.
So that's why we've sort offound that we thought that there
would be global unification ofGen Z.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I was doing a lot of work in China as a stock analyst
.
But looking at the Chinesebusinesses of the Procter Gamble
and the Cokes and even then,and actually particularly Estee
Lauder, because Estee Lauder hadthis huge portfolio of very
desirable brands Estee Lauder,lemaire, mac, clinique and they
were absolutely killing it inChina.
And then, literally 20 yearsago, you started to see the
(24:43):
growth of local brands.
Initially they were perceivedto be much lower quality and
they would never actually anyonewho had real money would never
buy them and that is reallychanging.
It's as if the idea bubbles up.
It might take 15 years and thenboom, it just hits an
exponential growth curve.
So I think what you're sayingin talking about brand
nationalism is it might havejust hit that exponential part
(25:06):
of the curve.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think that's absolutely right, and in Chinese
movie theaters, people areboycotting certain Marvel movies
that they feel are overlyAmerican or don't portray China
in the best light, and so it'sdefinitely affecting brand
purchase.
It's also affectingentertainment, and both of those
things influence each otheracross culture, so that is
definitely a significant trendthat we're seeing now, which is
(25:29):
quite robust.
The other thing, though, thatI've found really interesting
less from a brand perspective,but more from a psyche
perspective to really understandGen Z is again 2021, 2022,
globally unified right.
That was sort of the theme.
What we saw in this most recentreport is a significant optimism
gap between Gen Zers indeveloped countries versus Gen
(25:50):
Zers in developing countries,and what that means is exactly
what your daughter said to you,which is my standard of living
is not going to be better thanmy parents.
Most Gen Zers in developedcountries believe that, whether
it's in Western Europe or the USor Canada, that is a prevailing
attitude.
However, if you look at GenZers in developing countries
(26:11):
Southeast Asia, the Middle East,et cetera there's a lot of
economic optimism.
My life is getting better yearafter year.
My life will be better than myparents.
Obviously, a significantportion of that is sort of the
relative aspect of it.
If you are already in adeveloped country, just from
definitionally you have moreresources than if you are in a
(26:32):
developing country.
But still how that affectspeople and sort of their psyche
is that young people indeveloped countries, again, they
don't feel like their lives aregetting better, whereas young
people in developing countriesdo.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Talking about opportunities, interesting to me
that, in fact, even at a timewhere maybe people are moving
against buying American brands,it's an opportunity for global
companies to either invest morein local brands so step up M&A
which they've done over theyears anyway but really activate
that step it up and do thingsto further localize their brands
(27:06):
and make them relevant to localcommunities, rather than
pulling back and saying, oh,anti-american sentiment, we have
to be careful, but to actuallydouble down.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Completely.
It's just doubling down in theright way To your point.
You absolutely cannot ignorequote unquote developing world,
the non-Western world.
That is the largest population,that is the largest growing
population.
Of course, you can't put yourhead in the sand, but exactly
it's about doing it in the rightway, which it's exactly what
(27:35):
you said.
It's M&A, so you're purchasingsort of local brands that have
that market familiarity andunderstanding of the market
brand love, or it's also justunderstanding there's not a one
size fits all to a globalcampaign.
What I will say, though, which Ithink is really important, is
people pretty much understandthat you have to be quite local.
You can't just be global.
(27:56):
People have been recognizingthat for a long time.
I think what is new, though,and what people don't fully
recognize, is information andnews is now global, such that
your markets, what you dolocally, has to pass the smell
test globally.
It doesn't have to be relevantglobally.
It has to pass the smell testbecause it doesn't have to be
relevant globally.
It has to pass the smell testbecause news is now global.
(28:16):
So you have an activation in acertain market or a campaign,
you have to make sure thatpeople globally wouldn't take
offense to that, despitelanguage barriers, the risk is
too high of people finding outAgain.
It doesn't have to be relevantglobally.
It has to pass the smell testglobally.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's an excellent point, Amanda.
So how does this affectemployers when they think about
attracting and keepingmotivating their employees who
are Gen Z?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
It's a great question and one that I get all of the
time, because I think people,post-covid, are still really
figuring out workplace norms andwhat that looks like.
What I will say is that I think, from an employee perspective,
gen Z can get scapegoated.
I think for trends that aregeneration-wide and by that I
(29:08):
mean when I talk to a lot of ourclients or people in the world
there's this pervasive feelingof Gen Z doesn't want to go back
to the office.
They're entitled all thesethings.
When I give presentations,sometimes I'll start and sort of
ask OK, audience, if you had todescribe Gen Z in one word,
what would it be?
And I hear all sorts ofnegative things entitled
snowflakes, et cetera.
And I think people are mostlythinking of their Gen Z
(29:31):
colleagues when they say that I.
And I think people are mostlythinking of their Gen Z
colleagues when they say that Idon't think it's all Gen Z.
Gen Z of course gets the blamefor these cultural changes
because they're just coming intothe workforce, but it's a lot
of people.
Now I think things have settledsuch that Gen Zers are actually
coming back to the office.
They want to be in the office.
There's a movement now aroundmore millennials and Gen Xers
(29:52):
who they're parents, they'reoverburdened, they want to sort
of have better work-life balanceand flexibility and so they're
really pushing back and comingto the office.
But again Gen Z getsscapegoated for that.
The reason I say that and thereason I think it's relevant and
this is sort of the red threadacross the work that we do is,
in order to create a solution,you need to really strongly and
(30:12):
smartly identify the problem,and, I think, at a really high
level.
One of the macro themes we seearound Gen Z is people just
don't really understand them andso, as a result, the work that
they do to connect with them,either from a consumer
perspective and particularlyfrom an employee perspective,
often misses the mark.
Because you're not actuallylistening to your Gen Zers,
(30:33):
you're sort of takingstereotypes from what you think
they want and sort of what youthink they are.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Can you size for us just what percent of the
population they might represent,or percent of spending?
I'm not sure how you look at it.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So our stat on spending is that they will have
$12 trillion of purchasing powerby 2030.
It is enormous.
Is that global, really reallylarge?
The reason is because inmarkets like India, et cetera,
they skew young, so that numberis certainly not the same across
(31:06):
market.
That number, I believe, isaround 25, maybe 22% for the US
somewhere around there but isreally buoyed by a lot of more
sort of developing markets India, brazil, et cetera where the
percentage of young people ishigher.
But, it's an enormously largegeneration.
I think is what you're gettingat.
To sort of ground people instatistics.
This is a significantly largegeneration.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Right, and it is the workforce in some places of now
and certainly of the future.
And so peeling back the layers,not making assumptions based on
what we used to think was true.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The two simplistic solutions that I would say is
actually listen to Gen Zers.
We've done this for a fewclients where we've convened
panels of either it's Gen Zersthat we've pulled from the
market or Gen Zers in thosecompanies to sort of convene
direct conversations and almostfocus groups of what do you want
to see.
And really what we've been ableto do is unearth and sort of
(32:03):
address mistaken stereotypes.
And it gets back to this ideaof don't create solutions based
on assumption, right, like,actually listen to the target
audience Again, whether from aconsumer or an employee
perspective.
Actually listen to your targetaudience.
And a lot of what Gen Z wantsfrom an employee perspective, it
goes back to that safety andsecurity.
They are really concerned aboutAI taking their jobs more than
(32:25):
any other generation.
And it makes sense, right,because when you think of Gen
Z's, when you think of AI'scapabilities, it's a lot of
entry-level work, it's a lot ofsort of preliminary analysis.
These are all things thatentry-level employees tend to do
, and Gen Zers are theentry-level employees, so
they're more concerned than anyother generation to do.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
And Gen Zers are the entry-level employees, so
they're more concerned than anyother generation.
Us in the older generation canfool ourselves because we've had
this experience of well, thingschange but it always works out
okay.
And some of us more towards thetail end of a career
traditional career.
I'm not done yet lots more todo.
But if you're just coming inand all you've seen is that
(33:05):
every three years.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's all different.
That reinforces that fear 100%.
I was just reading this articlethe other day that literally
there is slowing hiring.
There is slowing hiring in theUS.
People are ascribing that to AI.
You're in an economicallyvolatile environment, which is
not helping that and reallytough.
But Gen Zers are very concernedabout their economic future,
both in the immediate term.
So I would say it's similar tothe 2008 recession for
(33:29):
millennials that people arefeeling now amplified by sort of
long-term economic anxiety andlabor anxiety because of AI.
So it's not just the immediatewow, I can't get a job because
the economy isn't doing well,because in the back of your head
things are cyclical Okay, it'sgoing to come back in two or
three years.
It's painful, but it's going tocome back.
This is sort of the world isrecalibrating.
(33:51):
How am I going to get a foot in?
How am I going to start andsort of begin?
So that anxiety again, whenemployers hear this, when we've
done this for clients, and theysort of hear this, there's this
aha moment of oh my God, Ididn't realize that was the
reality that these Gen Zers arefacing.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, it certainly gives you more empathy.
So any other findings, piecesof advice that you want to leave
our listeners with?
Amanda, this is such great workand I do hope when you do this
in a couple of years it's goingto be more optimistic.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So do I?
Oh my gosh, I do.
I have one last piece that endsin an optimistic note, so a lot
of campaigns and companies thatare doing well right now are
ones that embrace levity, onesthat embrace lightness.
They embrace fun, spontaneity,and I've gotten a number of
questions from our clients whotry to square the sort of dark
(34:46):
picture that we're painting fromour data with the cultural
reality of.
Okay, then, why are all thesesilly TikToks getting so much
love, getting so much virality?
And I think it's particularlyrelevant for food and beverage
brands, because those are theones who tend to lean in more
into that.
I would actually say, going backto this idea of permission
(35:06):
space, in a really dark world,people are looking for laughter,
people are looking for light,they're looking for fun, and so,
as a brand it's actually inbusiness it's actually really
essential to lean into that.
The way that you can do that,though, is by listening to your
audience and understanding whatthey need and what they want
from you.
The worst thing you can do issort of wag your finger at them
(35:28):
and say you should be havingmore fun, and that is it, sort
of point blank.
You have to do it in a way thatis responsive to your audience
and authentic to you as a brandand business.
And if you do that and you'reable to sort of land the plane
around levity laughter light,that is amazing.
That is something much greaterthan the sum of its parts and
(35:49):
something that brings peopletogether.
Coming back to this idea ofcommunity, people want community
, they want the laughter, theywant the lightness, and so I
think the moment and opportunityfor brands and businesses,
particularly in the beveragespace, has never been greater.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I want to close with just reiterating what you just
said about listening.
My dad had a lot of wonderfulsayings, but one of them was one
mouth, two ears, and I do thinkwe tend to think we know so
much because, say, you've beenaround the beverage industry for
30 years or the food industryfor 25 years, whatever it is,
but everything changes and it'sjust great.
(36:25):
And Nick Modi, who we've justreleased a podcast with him.
He talks about the fact thatyou've got a whole multitude of
people If you're a company ofany scale, whether it's 10
employees, a thousand employeesor hundreds of thousands of
employees for the global brandswho are close to the customers.
So just listen to your employeesand they'll tell you a lot, as
well as your customers.
So two ears, one mouth.
(36:46):
I think it's a lovely way toend and, amanda, thank you.
This is great work, if there'sanything you want to leave us.
Last thought about Edelman, andwelcome to Chicago, welcome
back to the US.
I know you just moved back fromEngland.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yes, I appreciate it.
No, thank you so much forhaving me on.
I'll just say, on a personallevel, I honestly love the Gen Z
Lab and what we do and, I think, providing context on what's
happening in the world and, as aresult, businesses licensed to
operate and how they can addvalue.
Frankly, it's all about addingvalue to your customers, to your
employees, and really trying todo that I think has never been
more important than now.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And we can find you at worldwidewebedelmancom, is
that right?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yes, you can find exactly wwwedelmancom.
Thank you, Amanda.
Look forward to next year.
Thank you so much, Caroline.
Appreciate it If you enjoyedthis session.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
please do comment, rate and follow us on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen, and please share
this with your friends andcolleagues.
For Gen Z and for other generations, business is
the most trusted institutionacross both ethics and
competence.
So the permission for businessand brands to act, to be
partners for change for Gen Zhas never been more.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello friends, old and new, and welcome to Drinks
with Caroline.
I'm so happy you've joined mefor what I believe will be
another stimulating conversationwith an industry expert,
founder or otherwise fabulousperson in the consumer industry,
amanda Edelman.
Thank you so much for joiningme today for Drinks with
(00:41):
Caroline.
I am drinking a Celsius becauseit's early morning and it's a
brand I'm fond of.
I'm on the board of the company, which has been a great journey
.
What are you drinking?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
this morning I'm drinking chamomile tea.
I have to say slightly less funthan what you're drinking, but
I've already had my coffee, sotrying to keep it a little calm,
great.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, we're just really so happy to have you here
.
I heard you speak on anExtraordinary Women on Boards
call and you are the ChiefOperating Officer of Gen Z Lab
for Edelman, as well as theDeputy GM of the Chicago office
helping companies withcommunications and various other
(01:23):
things.
But I was so impressed with theway you presented the Gen Z
findings and the fact thatyou've done this in the past and
I just thought it was sointeresting.
I wanted to bring that to myaudience and I think it's
important to think about howthis influences the way
companies should be innovatingin the beverage segment as well
as across the board in consumer.
So could you tell us a littlebit about the study, how many
(01:45):
people, and your findings?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yes, absolutely Well.
First off, I just want to say ahuge thank you for having me.
This is very lovely, and Idefinitely have a beverage, or
multiple beverages, on methroughout the day.
You know you go from coffee towater to tea, all sorts of
different beverages throughoutthe day, so I'm glad I have a
forum at least to discuss whatI'm drinking.
That really is the importantpoint to get across.
(02:09):
But no thank you again forhaving me and maybe I'll just
take a little step back before Igo into some of the findings to
really contextualize theEdelman Gen Z Lab, what we've
been doing and what we've beenseeing since we launched.
We are the largestindependently held
communications firm in the world, been around for over 70 years,
we operate in 60 differentmarkets and, on top of that, we
(02:32):
have something called the TrustBarometer that we have done for
the past 25 years and itmeasures trust in institutions
across the world.
The reason I'm mentioning thisis because this is highly
relevant to why we launched theGen Z Lab in the first place
three and a half years ago andthe reason that we launched the
Gen Z Lab with Edelman's GlobalBrand Officer, jackie Cooper.
She and I co-founded the labtogether.
(02:54):
The reason that we did this isbecause we heard from so many of
our clients across many, manydifferent industries that they
were all very concerned aboutGen Z industries, that they were
all very concerned about Gen Zand, on one hand, there was this
tremendous excitement aroundthis large and growing potential
consumer population with alifetime of brand loyalty ahead.
But at the end of 2021, societywas undergoing a lot of changes,
(03:16):
particularly in the West, andso there was this enormous fear
for our clients of saying ordoing the wrong thing and
getting canceled Again.
End of 2021 was sort of primecancel culture, and so, as a
result, a lot of our clientsfelt paralyzed.
They wanted to do something thatearned the trust and loyalty of
this generation, but they feltthat the force of errors or the
(03:38):
potential backlash almostoutweighed the potential gain.
And so we sort of recognize thisparalysis in our clients and
we're like we have to help them,we have to have them do
something, we have to sort ofhelp them navigate this moment,
and so we launched the Gen Z Labofficially in June 2022, but
powered by data that we hadcollected earlier in the year,
(03:58):
with the simple mission to helpour clients effectively engage
with Gen Z, and since then ithas been tremendously fun.
It's been really amazing,through our reports, through our
IP, to really keep our fingeron the pulse of this generation
and, through that, reallyunderstand and get under the
skin of some of the broaderchanges that we're seeing in the
(04:19):
world, because Gen Z really isbehind so many of these large
societal changes, whether it'saround changing workplace norms,
whether it's around changingcultural norms and, in
particular, the ways thatbusinesses and brands interact
with their consumers, with theirbroader audiences.
A lot of it is sort of shapedby Gen Z, because they really
are these arbiters of culture.
So that's sort of the bigpicture perspective that I
(04:41):
wanted to provide before reallyreally diving into this sort of
specific report.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So when you did this the first time several years ago
, what were some of the keyfindings?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It was fascinating.
So, I have to say, we had somehypotheses about what we would
find when we did this at the endof 2021.
And then we did it across sixdifferent markets US, uk, france
, germany, china and Mexico toreally get a sort of global
understanding rather than just aWestern understanding.
You know, we had somehypotheses of who Gen Z were.
(05:13):
We're starting to hear and talka lot about cancel culture,
tiktok from COVID had justreally risen, and so we thought
that there would be, you know, alot about influencers and
creators.
What we found was totallydifferent and very surprising
for us, and there were a few keypoints that really rose from
the data.
Number one was that Gen Z hasthis visceral need for safety
(05:34):
and security that was acrossevery single market, and this
was several years ago and thiswas at the end of 2021.
Exactly, exactly.
I'll give a little spoiler andsay that that visceral need for
safety and security has verymuch remained in them.
That's still very much adefining force for them, but
this was several years ago.
And again, for several yearsago, when we first did the
(05:55):
report, this generation wasbetween 12 and 27,.
Right, they're really, reallyyoung.
The median age of that is 19,19 or 20.
So it's a really, really youngpopulation and it was quite
heartbreaking actually at thetime to get all this data back
and say, wow, fear is really adefining element for them,
anxiety is a defining elementfor them.
Again, all going back to thisneed for safety and security,
(06:17):
and what was an interesting sortof sub point through that, is
that Gen Z has started to definesafety and security in a
holistic way.
It's not just about physicalsafety Do I feel safe walking
down the street at night?
It's about emotional safety.
It's about health and wellness.
They really are starting tothink of sort of their full
safety and full sense of self ina way that is different from
(06:38):
other generations and in a waythat just came through every
single facet of the data.
So that was finding number one.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, and to that point, I think that bullying is
one of the things that make themfeel unsafe.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Right, exactly, and again, if we sort of put
ourselves back in the end of2021, tiktok had just taken off.
Of course, other social mediaplatforms, you know, have been
around for the past decade, ifnot longer, but TikTok had
really taken off.
So that's exactly it, caroline.
Past decade, if not longer, butTikTok had really taken off.
So that's exactly it, caroline.
Is Gen Z is responding to theworld around them and sort of
(07:10):
what they're seeing, and sothey're seeing threats to
themselves, not just physically,but also emotionally with
respect to bullying.
So that's why they're startingto define the need for safety
and security in that 360 way.
It's because they feel attackedin an almost 360 way, which I
know sounds insane, but it cameso clearly through the data and
part of the reason for this.
Again, if you think back to2021, this generation had just
(07:33):
been traumatized, frankly, byCOVID.
I mean, every generation was.
But imagine if you are 17 yearsold, or you're 21 years old,
you're 13 years old and all of asudden, you're torn from your
life as is forced to go onlinefor many, many years.
How this affects adolescentsand young people is so much more
seismic than how it affectedeveryone else.
(07:53):
Everyone else was able to goback to normal, but for Gen Z
that became their normal.
The world in COVID became theirnormal, and that's something
that we see now in the data aswell, sort of skipping ahead a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think that insight you just provided helped reframe
it for me, because it's so easyfor any human being to just
think of a major event like thatthrough your own lens,
especially if you didn't haveschool age kids at the time so
mine were in college by then.
But the impacts are foreverfrom that sort of trauma and, as
you'll go on to describe, thekids are not all right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes, exactly.
So I'll sort of, you know, justjump through so that we can get
to the good stuff, which iswhat the heck is happening today
.
To sort of recap what we foundat the end of 2021, it was
visceral need for safety andsecurity.
Gen Z was deeply unified, evenacross markets.
You'd expect there to be morevariation between American
versus Chinese Gen Zers not atall.
(08:47):
And then the third thing isthat we found that they were a
generation who prioritized weover me.
They were all about collectiveaction.
They were all about community.
Again, you think to the end of2021, people were coming
together to try to create socialchange.
They really believed in thepower of we and they mobilized
around the power of we.
So that was sort of thesnapshot at the end of 2021.
(09:09):
And that actually remainedquite consistent for the next
couple of years is sort of right.
If we need to distill Gen Zdown to their essence, it's
these three things right.
It really remaining.
We started to see some changesto that, actually starting about
a year ago, and the beginningof this change was starting to
see the rise of sort of farright Gen Zers, particularly Gen
(09:31):
Z men, in the US and acrossEurope and across various other
markets.
I think Gen Z sort ofstereotypically is known as okay
, they're super left wing,they're super progressive, and
that generally was the case in alot of different countries, not
just the US.
But starting about a year ago,we began to see some changes in
that political orientation andso we started to keep our ear to
(09:53):
the ground more, because wethought that might portend some
changes in the psyche of thisgeneration.
And really a conclusion we wereright is some things have
changed around this generationand as a result, we commissioned
a report based on the findingsof Edelman's Trust Barometer for
this past year.
(10:14):
Just because, as I mentioned, wedo a Trust Barometer every year
We've done it for the past 25years and it measures trust in
institutions around the worldbusiness, government, media,
nonprofits and we do that againto sort of understand what's the
world headline right now, whatis the prism through which we
should see the world.
And for this past year, for allgenerations, the theme was
(10:34):
around grievance.
There's a rise in grievance anda resentment towards people who
are perceived to have more thanyou or sort of be powerful in
society and, as a result, anaccompanying feeling of
hostility or zero-sum mindset.
That was something we saw veryclearly in the data, and the
numbers were highest for Gen Z.
They feel the most aggrieved ofall generations, they feel the
(10:55):
most hostile, they feel the mostzero-sum, which is shocking.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, it's so interesting.
I've been thinking about thatword, grievance and I have no
idea if the root is from grief.
I assume it might be.
But if I think about what achildhood is supposed to be and
what your school experience issupposed to be and what your
college experience is supposedto be, it makes total sense to
me that there is real griefaround the fact that that's gone
(11:20):
and you never get it back.
So I found it a veryinteresting word.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think that's so right and I might steal that if
I'm honest, because I think thatframes it so well.
I think that frames it so welland I think that's why nostalgia
as a theme has become soprominent in culture in the past
few years, and for Gen Z inparticular.
They're nostalgic for eras theynever lived through.
It's kind of this idealizedversion of life in the 80s or
90s or even early 2000s,pre-social media,
(11:52):
pre-communication norms.
Today.
I think you're so right.
They're grieving for a worldalmost in which they never lived
, but which they see throughculture, tv media, but which
they see through culture, tvmedia.
I think that's absolutely right, as many of them are sort of
grieving for the state of theworld today and almost like this
lost innocence or lostchildhood.
(12:13):
I think I think so.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
In beverages Olipop and Poppy, for example very fun,
very colorful packaging hasemerged where, if you think to
traditional soda red, blue, drPepper's maroony red very
different packaging, look andthrowback, a lot of throwback.
There are brands that aregetting it and they're seeing
the benefits.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I think that's so right, and I'm going to put a
pin in that because I want toalso sort of contextualize some
of the findings that we had.
And then one of the points thatwe found is highly is very
relevant for this.
So I want to take a step backagain and sort of say, right, so
we commissioned this reportbecause we saw this really
alarming data of Gen Z is highlyaggrieved, combined with the
(12:57):
fact that we, with our ear tothe ground, we're starting to
see some changes, sort of in thepsyche of this generation.
And so we did another reportwhich we just released, which
exactly, caroline, as you said,I presented to this group
Extraordinary Women on Boards,and it piqued your interest.
So great.
But really what we found in thisgeneration is a fundamental
shift.
They have become the megeneration Instead of the we
(13:22):
generation.
They've gone from we to me, andin some ways it makes sense,
because if you have a visceralneed for safety and security, if
you feel like you're beingattacked in that sort of 360 way
that we described, of courseyou're going to become about
yourself because you need toprotect yourself.
And that's what a lot of Gen Zfeels like is they feel this
need to protect themselves fromthe forces in the world.
(13:43):
Whether that's economicinstability, whether that's the
threat of AI taking their jobsthey are more scared about AI
than any other generation.
Whether it's becausehomeownership has become out of
reach, there is this enormousfeeling of oh my gosh, I am not
all right, the future is not allright for me.
And it's exactly as you said,caroline.
One of our headlines was thekids are not all right and so,
(14:07):
as a result of that, the call toaction for business has never
been higher because, frankly,the world, young people, need
business to step up and I get alot of questions from clients
around well, is it safe?
Are we going to get backlash?
And part of why we look attrust and sort of trust in
institutions is to understandwhat is the permission space for
(14:28):
businesses, for our clients toact, and for Gen Z and for other
generations.
Business is the most trustedinstitution across both ethics
and competence, so thepermission for business and
brands to act, to be partnersfor change for Gen Z has never
been more.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And that's more trusted than government.
What are you measuring against?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
From a methodology perspective A, we'll just ask
the question.
I trust this institution, soit's fundamental.
And then we also have a two bytwo across ethics and competence
.
Ethics being I believe this isan ethical institution.
Competence being OK, I believethis institution can get done
what it promises to get done,and so, as an example,
nonprofits tend to be moreethical but less competent, and
(15:10):
so, over time, actually a macrotrend that we've seen in the
past five years is businessactually rise to be the most as
a net score, to be the mostcompetent and ethical compared
to any other institution.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So more ethical than traditionally the most ethically
viewed institutions.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And so really, what we found is sort of distilling
the state of the world.
For Gen Z, we find there to bethree forces that are
predominantly creating this sortof destabilization and anxiety.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Number one is fear.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
The world has become a very scary and sort of
pressure-filled place for Gen Z.
Number two is misinformation.
There's so much informationcoming at Gen Z from all these
different angles.
How do you verify what's true,what's not, when sort of former
authority figures and sources ofauthority have become much less
top-down, it's much more sideto side?
And then number three isdisconnection.
(16:03):
This is really going tosurprise no one, but all these
article headlines we see aroundGen Z, mental health, Gen Z
loneliness it's all about thisfeeling of disconnection for Gen
Z, really disrupted by COVID.
So these are the three keyproblems that Gen Z is facing
right now.
As a result, we have started totalk to a lot of our clients
(16:24):
around calls to action to solvethose three problems.
So, in order to move from fear,you need to provide that sense
of safety and security right,that visceral need for safety
and security that I talked aboutbefore.
That absolutely remains.
So business needs to do that.
In order to combatmisinformation, you need to be
transparent.
You need to sort of have thesereally authentic channels of
(16:47):
communication and ensure thatyou're saying the same thing
between those channels, becauseGen Z with social media, they're
able to see everything.
So you have to be extratransparent.
And then the last one, whichthen goes, I think, the most
back to the beverage sector andI would love to hear your
thoughts on this is as anantidote to disconnection.
As a business and brand, youhave to provide a sense of
(17:07):
community and connection foryour consumers.
I think the most popular brandsright now, the ones who are
tapping into culture, do justthat.
They've created a communityaround their followers, around
their customers, making themfeel like they belong to
something bigger than themselves, which is a human need, but
particularly for Gen Z, theydesperately need it right now.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think it's fascinating and it makes me
optimistic, because I do thinkif business is trusted to fill a
space and avoid, that meansthat there are wonderful growth
opportunities.
And if I overlay the health andwellness trends, the
understanding we have from beingable to hack our bodies now, of
how what we put inside usaffects it's at least something
(17:50):
we can control, because there'sso much that feels out of their
control.
And I'm laughing because I hadBrandy Rand on talking about why
people drink.
She's an expert in thealcoholic beverage space and she
was talking about you know, doyou drink for energy?
Do you drink for relaxation?
Do you drink?
Well, now it's like do I drinkfor safety?
(18:10):
Oh, we're going to have a drinkcalled safe.
It's just the mood need.
And I do think as you talk toyour clients, you're presenting
them with solutions to what canfeel like a very overwhelmingly
challenging environment.
So that's the upside, and I'mso happy to see this work done,
because the more we peel backthe layers, the more you see the
(18:32):
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I'm so glad that you've said that and that you've
picked up on that, just because, frankly, when we got back to
the data, we had a moment wherewe kind of looked at each other
and we're like, oh shoot, thisis really bad, this is a crisis,
and I think for us it wasreally important to end in an
optimistic space so thatbusinesses, so that our clients,
(18:54):
felt like they could dosomething about it, because they
should and they need to, and soI'm so glad that you've come
out of this feeling a sense ofoptimism.
You might be the only one,because normally, when I talk
about it or present it.
People kind of have their headin their hands and they're like,
oh my God, what is happening?
The kids are not all right.
It's really true.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I've had a couple of weeks to think about it, because
when I was first listening Iwas like, oh, this is horrible.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
As I think about it.
Let me just take the industryas an example.
You could look at carbonatedsoft drinks and say, well,
everybody's moving away fromsugared colas and yet Coke has
found a way to grow its business, dr Pepper's found a way to
grow its business, and Poppy andOlipop have been created to
grow businesses.
The energy category has come tolife.
So there are need states we canaddress.
(19:39):
The other thing coming out ofthe fact you said they don't
believe they can buy a home andI had my own kids say that to me
, mom our standard of living isnot going to be as good as yours
I'm like that's a terribleattitude.
That's a terrible attitude.
Let's have an optimisticattitude, but the fact is, if
they're not saving for theirhouse, they are spending on
their bodies.
They can control what they putinto their bodies.
They can be part of a communityby carrying a brand that says
(20:02):
something about them and theirvalues.
And so there's alwaysopportunity, there's always the
silver lining, and I wish wecould also help alleviate that
fear and that mental anguish.
So it reminds me you weretalking about some of the brands
that are thriving.
Can you talk about that, likewhy you think Rare Beauty is
doing well?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yes, exactly.
So I think Rare Beauty is abrand.
They're like checking every box.
They're doing an amazing job.
Cynically, when I've given thisexample, some people say, oh
yeah, it's because they're ownedby Selena Gomez.
You know, she's the mostfollowers on Instagram.
Of course, it's going to bepopular.
Obviously, that helps.
(20:41):
I am not discounting howimportant that is.
That being said, there are alot of other celebrity brands
that have not done nearly aswell.
So it's the combination of yes,they have, of course, a famous
founder, but also they stand forsomething For Rare Beauty.
They are very focused on mentalhealth.
That aligns with Selena Gomez'smental health struggles that
she's talked about, and theyalso have a fund.
(21:01):
They're not a client.
So I feel you know I promisethis is not, you know, a
personal pitch they really arejust an amazing example of a
company who is doing everythingright, but they have a fund that
they donate I believe 1% ofrevenue to that supports mental
health for their employees.
(21:23):
I believe, as well as thegeneral public, and that's also
really important is that Gen Zand people overall they care how
you treat your employees.
If you're not walking the walkin your own backyard, how can I
trust you to do that morebroadly, know more broadly, and
so, again, I think they've donea really excellent job at
standing for something and notonly that, making that known
through very strong actions thataffect their different
communities.
So it's trustworthy.
(21:44):
You know, it's not just lipservice, they really are walking
the walk, not just talking thetalk.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I'll give an example Athletic Brewing, and I'm on the
board of that as well.
I'm genuinely impressed by thefact that they have been giving
they call it two for the trails,but $2 million to support local
running and biking trails,because the whole birth of the
brand came from.
I want to live in a healthierway.
If I'm drinking alcohol allthrough the night or starting
(22:12):
early in the day, I don't alwaysfeel my best and I want to have
something that makes me feelpart of a group.
So the athletic beer brand issomething you can feel proud to
carry in your hand, but it'snon-alcoholic and so, tying in,
I want to be able to cycle.
It was founded by an athlete.
I want to be able to be part ofthis community and then giving
something to their community, sovery local activation.
(22:33):
Coca-cola has been doing thisfor decades all over the world,
ingraining the brand withintheir communities by sponsoring
local events and so on, and, youknow, providing water when
there are water shortages, andAnheuser-Busch does the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
For Coca-Cola.
As an example, I remember thecampaign they did 15 years ago,
10 years ago.
That was share a Coke with X,share a Coke with Alex, share a
Coke with Sam, you know whomever.
They have been creating acommunity and create and using
their product to help peopledevelop relationships.
That is so smart.
Campaigns like that are exactlywhat the world needs now, in
(23:08):
conjunction with, as we'retalking about, whether it's
donations or sort of tangibleimpact in that area, but things
that bring people together.
For me, I think that is themost important and relevant
thing that a company or brandcan do, and obviously it helps
your bottom line.
As you say, coca-cola is doingvery well right now.
They've managed to grow in atough category, so I think
(23:30):
that's spot on.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Perfect example.
You, I think, talked about thefact that you've done the survey
in multiple countries and I'mwondering if you're seeing any
differences in emerging versusdeveloped countries and anything
you want to highlight.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yes, 100%.
So I mentioned that when we didthis survey a few years ago, we
found that Gen Z were veryunified and our hypothesis
around that was the continuedrise of social media,
particularly TikTok, makingtrends global right.
If you think about Koreanskincare and the movie Parasite
I'm just using Korea as anexample but like Korean skincare
(24:03):
, k-pop, k-dramas like that hasjust exploded onto the global
scene and it has been for awhile, but it's really been
accelerated by social media.
So, as a result of social media, culture has gone global.
So that's why we've sort offound that we thought that there
would be global unification ofGen Z.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I was doing a lot of work in China as a stock analyst
.
But looking at the Chinesebusinesses of the Procter Gamble
and the Cokes and even then,and actually particularly Estee
Lauder, because Estee Lauder hadthis huge portfolio of very
desirable brands Estee Lauder,lemaire, mac, clinique and they
were absolutely killing it inChina.
And then, literally 20 yearsago, you started to see the
(24:43):
growth of local brands.
Initially they were perceivedto be much lower quality and
they would never actually anyonewho had real money would never
buy them and that is reallychanging.
It's as if the idea bubbles up.
It might take 15 years and thenboom, it just hits an
exponential growth curve.
So I think what you're sayingin talking about brand
nationalism is it might havejust hit that exponential part
(25:06):
of the curve.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think that's absolutely right, and in Chinese
movie theaters, people areboycotting certain Marvel movies
that they feel are overlyAmerican or don't portray China
in the best light, and so it'sdefinitely affecting brand
purchase.
It's also affectingentertainment, and both of those
things influence each otheracross culture, so that is
definitely a significant trendthat we're seeing now, which is
(25:29):
quite robust.
The other thing, though, thatI've found really interesting
less from a brand perspective,but more from a psyche
perspective to really understandGen Z is again 2021, 2022,
globally unified right.
That was sort of the theme.
What we saw in this most recentreport is a significant optimism
gap between Gen Zers indeveloped countries versus Gen
(25:50):
Zers in developing countries,and what that means is exactly
what your daughter said to you,which is my standard of living
is not going to be better thanmy parents.
Most Gen Zers in developedcountries believe that, whether
it's in Western Europe or the USor Canada, that is a prevailing
attitude.
However, if you look at GenZers in developing countries
(26:11):
Southeast Asia, the Middle East,et cetera there's a lot of
economic optimism.
My life is getting better yearafter year.
My life will be better than myparents.
Obviously, a significantportion of that is sort of the
relative aspect of it.
If you are already in adeveloped country, just from
definitionally you have moreresources than if you are in a
(26:32):
developing country.
But still how that affectspeople and sort of their psyche
is that young people indeveloped countries, again, they
don't feel like their lives aregetting better, whereas young
people in developing countriesdo.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Talking about opportunities, interesting to me
that, in fact, even at a timewhere maybe people are moving
against buying American brands,it's an opportunity for global
companies to either invest morein local brands so step up M&A
which they've done over theyears anyway but really activate
that step it up and do thingsto further localize their brands
(27:06):
and make them relevant to localcommunities, rather than
pulling back and saying, oh,anti-american sentiment, we have
to be careful, but to actuallydouble down.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Completely.
It's just doubling down in theright way To your point.
You absolutely cannot ignorequote unquote developing world,
the non-Western world.
That is the largest population,that is the largest growing
population.
Of course, you can't put yourhead in the sand, but exactly
it's about doing it in the rightway, which it's exactly what
(27:35):
you said.
It's M&A, so you're purchasingsort of local brands that have
that market familiarity andunderstanding of the market
brand love, or it's also justunderstanding there's not a one
size fits all to a globalcampaign.
What I will say, though, which Ithink is really important, is
people pretty much understandthat you have to be quite local.
You can't just be global.
(27:56):
People have been recognizingthat for a long time.
I think what is new, though,and what people don't fully
recognize, is information andnews is now global, such that
your markets, what you dolocally, has to pass the smell
test globally.
It doesn't have to be relevantglobally.
It has to pass the smell testbecause it doesn't have to be
relevant globally.
It has to pass the smell testbecause news is now global.
(28:16):
So you have an activation in acertain market or a campaign,
you have to make sure thatpeople globally wouldn't take
offense to that, despitelanguage barriers, the risk is
too high of people finding outAgain.
It doesn't have to be relevantglobally.
It has to pass the smell testglobally.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's an excellent point, Amanda.
So how does this affectemployers when they think about
attracting and keepingmotivating their employees who
are Gen Z?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
It's a great question and one that I get all of the
time, because I think people,post-covid, are still really
figuring out workplace norms andwhat that looks like.
What I will say is that I think, from an employee perspective,
gen Z can get scapegoated.
I think for trends that aregeneration-wide and by that I
(29:08):
mean when I talk to a lot of ourclients or people in the world
there's this pervasive feelingof Gen Z doesn't want to go back
to the office.
They're entitled all thesethings.
When I give presentations,sometimes I'll start and sort of
ask OK, audience, if you had todescribe Gen Z in one word,
what would it be?
And I hear all sorts ofnegative things entitled
snowflakes, et cetera.
And I think people are mostlythinking of their Gen Z
(29:31):
colleagues when they say that I.
And I think people are mostlythinking of their Gen Z
colleagues when they say that Idon't think it's all Gen Z.
Gen Z of course gets the blamefor these cultural changes
because they're just coming intothe workforce, but it's a lot
of people.
Now I think things have settledsuch that Gen Zers are actually
coming back to the office.
They want to be in the office.
There's a movement now aroundmore millennials and Gen Xers
(29:52):
who they're parents, they'reoverburdened, they want to sort
of have better work-life balanceand flexibility and so they're
really pushing back and comingto the office.
But again Gen Z getsscapegoated for that.
The reason I say that and thereason I think it's relevant and
this is sort of the red threadacross the work that we do is,
in order to create a solution,you need to really strongly and
(30:12):
smartly identify the problem,and, I think, at a really high
level.
One of the macro themes we seearound Gen Z is people just
don't really understand them andso, as a result, the work that
they do to connect with them,either from a consumer
perspective and particularlyfrom an employee perspective,
often misses the mark.
Because you're not actuallylistening to your Gen Zers,
(30:33):
you're sort of takingstereotypes from what you think
they want and sort of what youthink they are.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Can you size for us just what percent of the
population they might represent,or percent of spending?
I'm not sure how you look at it.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So our stat on spending is that they will have
$12 trillion of purchasing powerby 2030.
It is enormous.
Is that global, really reallylarge?
The reason is because inmarkets like India, et cetera,
they skew young, so that numberis certainly not the same across
(31:06):
market.
That number, I believe, isaround 25, maybe 22% for the US
somewhere around there but isreally buoyed by a lot of more
sort of developing markets India, brazil, et cetera where the
percentage of young people ishigher.
But, it's an enormously largegeneration.
I think is what you're gettingat.
To sort of ground people instatistics.
This is a significantly largegeneration.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Right, and it is the workforce in some places of now
and certainly of the future.
And so peeling back the layers,not making assumptions based on
what we used to think was true.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The two simplistic solutions that I would say is
actually listen to Gen Zers.
We've done this for a fewclients where we've convened
panels of either it's Gen Zersthat we've pulled from the
market or Gen Zers in thosecompanies to sort of convene
direct conversations and almostfocus groups of what do you want
to see.
And really what we've been ableto do is unearth and sort of
(32:03):
address mistaken stereotypes.
And it gets back to this ideaof don't create solutions based
on assumption, right, like,actually listen to the target
audience Again, whether from aconsumer or an employee
perspective.
Actually listen to your targetaudience.
And a lot of what Gen Z wantsfrom an employee perspective, it
goes back to that safety andsecurity.
They are really concerned aboutAI taking their jobs more than
(32:25):
any other generation.
And it makes sense, right,because when you think of Gen
Z's, when you think of AI'scapabilities, it's a lot of
entry-level work, it's a lot ofsort of preliminary analysis.
These are all things thatentry-level employees tend to do
, and Gen Zers are theentry-level employees, so
they're more concerned than anyother generation to do.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
And Gen Zers are the entry-level employees, so
they're more concerned than anyother generation.
Us in the older generation canfool ourselves because we've had
this experience of well, thingschange but it always works out
okay.
And some of us more towards thetail end of a career
traditional career.
I'm not done yet lots more todo.
But if you're just coming inand all you've seen is that
(33:05):
every three years.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's all different.
That reinforces that fear 100%.
I was just reading this articlethe other day that literally
there is slowing hiring.
There is slowing hiring in theUS.
People are ascribing that to AI.
You're in an economicallyvolatile environment, which is
not helping that and reallytough.
But Gen Zers are very concernedabout their economic future,
both in the immediate term.
So I would say it's similar tothe 2008 recession for
(33:29):
millennials that people arefeeling now amplified by sort of
long-term economic anxiety andlabor anxiety because of AI.
So it's not just the immediatewow, I can't get a job because
the economy isn't doing well,because in the back of your head
things are cyclical Okay, it'sgoing to come back in two or
three years.
It's painful, but it's going tocome back.
This is sort of the world isrecalibrating.
(33:51):
How am I going to get a foot in?
How am I going to start andsort of begin?
So that anxiety again, whenemployers hear this, when we've
done this for clients, and theysort of hear this, there's this
aha moment of oh my God, Ididn't realize that was the
reality that these Gen Zers arefacing.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, it certainly gives you more empathy.
So any other findings, piecesof advice that you want to leave
our listeners with?
Amanda, this is such great workand I do hope when you do this
in a couple of years it's goingto be more optimistic.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So do I?
Oh my gosh, I do.
I have one last piece that endsin an optimistic note, so a lot
of campaigns and companies thatare doing well right now are
ones that embrace levity, onesthat embrace lightness.
They embrace fun, spontaneity,and I've gotten a number of
questions from our clients whotry to square the sort of dark
(34:46):
picture that we're painting fromour data with the cultural
reality of.
Okay, then, why are all thesesilly TikToks getting so much
love, getting so much virality?
And I think it's particularlyrelevant for food and beverage
brands, because those are theones who tend to lean in more
into that.
I would actually say, going backto this idea of permission
(35:06):
space, in a really dark world,people are looking for laughter,
people are looking for light,they're looking for fun, and so,
as a brand it's actually inbusiness it's actually really
essential to lean into that.
The way that you can do that,though, is by listening to your
audience and understanding whatthey need and what they want
from you.
The worst thing you can do issort of wag your finger at them
(35:28):
and say you should be havingmore fun, and that is it, sort
of point blank.
You have to do it in a way thatis responsive to your audience
and authentic to you as a brandand business.
And if you do that and you'reable to sort of land the plane
around levity laughter light,that is amazing.
That is something much greaterthan the sum of its parts and
(35:49):
something that brings peopletogether.
Coming back to this idea ofcommunity, people want community
, they want the laughter, theywant the lightness, and so I
think the moment and opportunityfor brands and businesses,
particularly in the beveragespace, has never been greater.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I want to close with just reiterating what you just
said about listening.
My dad had a lot of wonderfulsayings, but one of them was one
mouth, two ears, and I do thinkwe tend to think we know so
much because, say, you've beenaround the beverage industry for
30 years or the food industryfor 25 years, whatever it is,
but everything changes and it'sjust great.
(36:25):
And Nick Modi, who we've justreleased a podcast with him.
He talks about the fact thatyou've got a whole multitude of
people If you're a company ofany scale, whether it's 10
employees, a thousand employeesor hundreds of thousands of
employees for the global brandswho are close to the customers.
So just listen to your employeesand they'll tell you a lot, as
well as your customers.
So two ears, one mouth.
(36:46):
I think it's a lovely way toend and, amanda, thank you.
This is great work, if there'sanything you want to leave us.
Last thought about Edelman, andwelcome to Chicago, welcome
back to the US.
I know you just moved back fromEngland.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yes, I appreciate it.
No, thank you so much forhaving me on.
I'll just say, on a personallevel, I honestly love the Gen Z
Lab and what we do and, I think, providing context on what's
happening in the world and, as aresult, businesses licensed to
operate and how they can addvalue.
Frankly, it's all about addingvalue to your customers, to your
employees, and really trying todo that I think has never been
more important than now.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And we can find you at worldwidewebedelmancom, is
that right?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yes, you can find exactly wwwedelmancom.
Thank you, Amanda.
Look forward to next year.
Thank you so much, Caroline.
Appreciate it If you enjoyedthis session.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
please do comment, rate and follow us on Apple
Podcasts, spotify or whereveryou listen, and please share
this with your friends andcolleagues.
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