December 21, 2022 • 23 mins
In the last episode, we met Sheeba Philip, and she talked through some of her top successes and what God showed her through those times. In this episode, we dive into two of the major setbacks Sheeba has experienced in her professional and personal journey. As Sheeba says in this episode, “in God’s economy, nothing is wasted,” which is especially true for the times when it feels like there’s no recovering from a failure.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is sponsored by Vision Trust.
Vision Trust is an organizationthat provides essential support
in the areas of health,education, and spiritual
development to children andadolescents living in poverty
around the world.
Vision Trust is brimming withfemale role models who are
investing in the next generationof women.
Their love is defiant.
(00:20):
It stands strong against allodds.
And yours can too.
Join us in raising up confidentyoung women that embrace their
God-given talents to create abetter future for us all.
Learn more at Visiontrust.org/welcome back to Driven
Forward Influential LeadersPowered by God's will.
(00:41):
I'm your host, Jordan Johnstone.
In the last episode, we metSheba Philip, and she talked us
through some of her topsuccesses and what God showed
her through those times.
In this episode, we're going todive into two of the major
setbacks Sheba has experiencedin her professional and personal
journey.
As Sheba says in this episode,in God's economy, nothing is
(01:03):
wasted, which is especially truefor the times when it feels like
there's no recovering from afailure.
Listen now to the rest of ourtime with Sheva.
Well, we ended the last episodetalking about why God allows us
to experience success.
Mm-hmm.
.
Uh, so now what I would love tohear from you, uh, is kind of
the same question, but it'sabout setbacks instead.
(01:26):
So what do you think the purposeof setbacks is in our lives and
in God's plan for our lives?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Ooh, that's, it's, it's one I know is a hard topic
to talk about, but I'll talkabout it through a lens of a, a
s a setback, I'm sorry, or afailure that I experienced, and
I've talked about this before,but I can go a little bit deeper
on this.
You, I lost my job, um, manyyears ago when I was an
executive at JC Penney.
Up to that point, I had neverhad, frankly, I don't think I
(01:58):
did, I can't remember, but in myrecollection, never had a
mediocre performance review.
Um, always was promoted faster,you know, than I thought or, you
know, anticipated.
God just blessed me, blessed me,blessed me, blessed me in my
work.
I get to JC Penn.
I am the vice President ofmarketing.
I'm being asked to helptransform, uh, this very iconic,
(02:22):
uh, you know, brand.
And from, for long story short,it did not go as well as I had
hoped.
And I was asked to step downfrom my role because they were
gonna do a big restructuring ofthe executive team.
And I gotta tell you, Jordan,that was a really tough moment
receiving that news and goinghome.
And that, uh, marked a almosttwo year journey in processing
(02:46):
that failure and that setbackwith God.
And what I learned at the, outthe, at the core, and I'll go
back to that question you askedme in the prior episode about
who am I, God really had to tellme in through that failure.
You are my daughter first.
And for you are not a vicepresident of marketing or
(03:07):
potential CMO or businessstrategist.
Yes, those are things I amasking you to do in
participation with me.
It's why I've given you thesegiftings.
But at the end of the day, youridentity does not rest on what
you do, how you perform.
It rests on my son Jesus Christ.
And, and what, what he has saidon the cross for you.
(03:28):
And through that, you're mydaughter and I have a
relationship with you.
So that was probably the numberone thing God had to get me, get
my mind wrapped around wasidentity.
Because up to that point, myidentity was defined by my work
and what I did.
Mm-hmm.
.
And I remember those early days.
I would go to a cocktail partyand I was so used to people
(03:51):
saying, you know, you have aglass of wine.
And someone says, what do youdo?
Well, I'm vice president ofmarketing at JC Penn.
I'm part of a turnaround team.
I'm leading the brand.
And I had my answer mm-hmm.
for many, manycocktail parties.
After that moment of losing myjob, I did not know what to say.
I didn't know what to say.
What, what, well, who am I?
(04:12):
What do I do?
Blank.
And so that was really hard.
And God kept putting me in thesemoments of very, super
uncomfortable, awkward becausehe was forcing me to let go of
that identity and to help me toget to a place of humility to
say, you know, it's okay to sayI'm not doing anything right
(04:33):
now.
I'm in transition.
You know?
And that is, and that wasreally, really hard.
So I think to me, that was thenumber one thing.
Number one thing was my identity, um, I think, and, and the
failure was, I think was, andthe setback was for that.
The other reason I think hegives setback and failure, and I
(04:53):
can also tie back to JC Penney,is, you know, sometimes he wants
to kind of halt us because wearen't depending on him or doing
it through a selfish motivation,a selfish ambition or just heart
posture that isn't right.
And God's way of loving us is toput the breaks on it before we
(05:15):
self-destruct.
And I think for me, my work wasbecoming toxic.
I was approaching work through aneed of striving.
I was burnt out.
I was stressed.
I was, I just was dysfunctional,frankly.
And a lot of the way I wasleading at JC Penney at those
end days.
And I think the Lord finally hadto put the failure in, you know,
(05:38):
have me lose my job to reallyunderstand that I wasn't a
servant leader.
I had lost why I'm doing whatI'm doing.
It wasn't coming out of a placeof love.
It wasn't coming out of a placeof dependency on God and
humility.
And so, I hate to say it, Godneeded to do this to break my
pride and to, and to really helpme get to a place of kind of
(06:00):
Christ Center leadership that Ihad lost, um, for a while.
Mm-hmm.
.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, the, thecocktail party experience that
you were talking about, that hasto be very common nowadays.
Oh yeah.
You know, with, with everythingthat happened with the pandemic
and just everything that's goneon with the workforce.
I mean, there are probably quitea few people listening to this
right now going, oh yeah, I knowexactly what that feeling is.
(06:27):
I know what you're talkingabout, but I love what you said.
I mean, sometimes it's gotta getuncomfortable.
Yes.
You know, you, you have to gothrough that because you're
just, like you said, strippingaway all of these little things
you've built up to presentyourself in such a way that it's
all about you, you know, andit's not about God anymore.
(06:48):
Exactly.
Right.
And you know, he doesn't likethat.
So unless you are willing tolisten to, you know, cuz he
won't just out of nowhere ripthe rug out from underneath you.
He's probably along the way, youknow, whispered some things here
and there, sprinkled some stuffand mm-hmm.
, you know,sometimes we just get to a place
where
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
We're so set in what we're doing that we don't see
it.
I, and you know,
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I also think, Jordan, I sorry to cut you off, but you,
you triggered a thought failure.
I think obviously failure allowsyou to, you know, rethink and
revisit your identity in, inChrist.
Yeah.
It breaks you of some pride inprobably dysfunctions that
you've been operating in.
Like for me that was myexperience.
But I think it also is a way tocourse correct and get you on
(07:32):
the right path, not even coursecorrect.
Yeah.
To the next step in yourjourney.
Like I think about a cola andrunning a early stage venture
and having incredible experience, um, building an early stage
company.
I never ever would've done thathad I not lost my job at JC
Penney.
So, so much of setback issetting up of the next step.
(07:58):
And if we look at it that way,it can be also incredibly
exciting.
So yes, there are very muchcorrection tools.
He's do, he's using mm-hmm.
, you know, withsetback, that's also setting up
things he's doing Yeah.
By getting you to fail.
Because if you don't fail and hegets, he's trying to kind of get
you ready for the nextassignment.
So I definitely think thatthat's a another real strategy
(08:22):
behind failure when it happens.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah.
Well, and I love this isharkening back to last month's
episodes with Cheryl Batchelder,but she said something, uh, when
we were talking about setbacksand she was sharing about one of
them, she said, you know, one ofthe jobs that she left, um, she
had worked so hard to build upthis servant leadership, um, you
know, company culture andeverybody was just so focused on
(08:46):
that and it operated reallywell.
And so that was like one of thebiggest heartbreaks for her when
that company totallyrestructured, was that she felt
like, wow, I just lost, youknow, those nine or 10 years
that I had just invested.
But she said it was, it's justbeen so rewarding and
comforting, I guess in a way tonow see all of those people that
(09:08):
she trained have gone out toother companies and now they're
doing the same thing there.
And that might not havehappened, you know, had they not
kind of been cut off from theparent company and then gone off
on these other things.
So yeah, it's, you don't knowwhat God's up to, but you don't
have to know what God's up to.
You're just supposed to comealong, you know, and just trust
like we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And I think I, I love what you just said, and it
triggered a thought, you know,in God's economy, nothing is
wasted.
No, nothing is wasted.
There's a beautiful scripture,if I could look it up, right, I
would, but it's not Isaiah andIsaiah talk, like, it's just
talking about, like, these lastthree years was a moment.
The scripture's like those lastthree years, it was a, it was a
(09:51):
waste of time.
And God, you know, I, why did Ido?
Is I'm adli, the Lord responds,you know?
And he goes, no, he, he respondsand says, you know, I will take
heart because the Lord willultimately reward me.
And I think this idea of nothingis wasted was, was underneath
underpinning of that.
And in the case of Cheryl,that's so true.
(10:12):
And in the case of, even for me,it's like, you know, yeah, I, we
, we lay these seeds and thesefoundations in an organization
mm-hmm.
, And then we mayhave to leave through failure,
you know, or our own decision toleave, but we have to believe in
God's economy.
Those things have still beenplanted.
And even though we may not seethe harvest in our lifetime or
(10:33):
in in that, in that organizationwhile we're there, we still have
to believe nothing is wasted it,and that there is fruit that
will be born.
So I think that even when you'refaithful and you feel like
you've honored God, like in thecase of Cheryl, like she honored
the Lord and the servantleadership, there was still
failure.
Doesn't mean you're not gonnafail.
(10:53):
Like there's a real, you know,principle I wanna reinforce here
to the listeners, you could bedoing everything right, honoring
God, submitting to him, leadingwith humility, you know, being
faithful and you will stillfail.
And, and in that moment, theencouragement I wanna have for
you is that nothing is wasted.
That commit to God was notwasted.
(11:15):
And those seeds you planted aregonna bear fruit.
It may not be when you want, buthopefully God and His grace will
allow you to see it at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Mm.
Well I'm glad we, we went onthat little bit of a rabbit
trail there with that, but youwere able to talk through
actually organically, uh, yourfirst suspect that you sent me
was, was about JC Penney, andthat was the first time that you
really had been told, eh, youknow, it's not working.
And it was just kind of a blow, you know, cause that's
not how you are used tooperating.
Um, so I'm glad we were able totalk through that.
(11:47):
And so now the second setback,you also kind of mentioned a
little bit, um, but I'd love toget further into it, uh, because
it actually involves, like yousaid, Cola, which is a company
that forward is very familiarwith mm-hmm.
, um, and you wereable to come alongside them.
Um, you were instrumental inactually restructuring them.
And so some people might go,well, that sounds like a
(12:08):
success, not a setback, but youhad this big successful moment
with them and then, you know, alittle thing called a pandemic
.
Right.
Uh, so when did that successactually start to become a
setback?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Hmm.
Uh, well it was, it was alwayschallenging, but I think the
pandemic drove the real setbackof the company, like you said,
just to give the readerslistener sorry, context.
Um, Ola was a nonprofit for avery long time.
I joined in March, 2019 torestructure the company from a
(12:44):
nonprofit to a for-profit toraise our first round of
capital.
At the time, it was an excitingtime for a cola, it was in the
human markets, Marcus.
We were about to launch, we werelaunching in Nordstrom and in
Sac.
And we believed truly ourinvestment team and our board
that Cola had all thefundamentals, a great team in
(13:07):
Uganda, a great product, greatteam in Dallas, great
distribution to really scale.
And so our ambition at that timewas to be the first like luxury
jewelry brand that was groundedin a purpose of serving the poor
and, and creating jobs for women, uh, in the most marginalized
(13:28):
of communities, which is inUganda.
And we were off to the races,like you said, and we closed our
seed round in March, 2019,sorry, March, 2020, right as
Covid broke, right as Covidbroke.
Like, I literally closed aroundand the pandemic was announced
about a month later.
And, uh, our number one customerand even Marcus filed bankruptcy
(13:53):
weeks later and everythingstarted to kind of fall apart.
By God's grace we were able tostay, you know, um, and by the
grace and, and just provision ofour investors and our, our board
and our team, we still weatheredthe storm and we were able to
stay stable for the next coupleof years for the pandemic when
(14:13):
so many small businesses andretail shut down.
Um, we were really put, and oneother success is that we really
transformed the company from awholesale led company to a
digitally led company because wehad to, with the pandemic, there
was a lot of successes, like,you know, restructuring the
company, making it a luxurybrand, um, setting its course
(14:34):
for being an e-commerce firstbusiness.
Those were all great things, butthe setback really was, you
know, the start of the pandemicwas the start of the setback.
But the culmination of a setbackwas sitting with my board, um,
in early 2021 and saying,actually, I'm sorry, early 2022,
and saying, you know what, thisis just not a sustainable model.
(14:59):
Like if we really wannaultimately preserve the mission
for these women and really givethem a pathway outta poverty, we
need to make sure that theAfrica Division stays intact.
And the best way to do that isto set them off, empower them as
a local company to run and notbe weighed down by a really big
(15:19):
cost structure here in the us.
And the reality was the retailmarket, and it still hasn't
really completely rebounded fromc um, wholesalers are still
struggling, and now we'reentering into a potential, you
know, challenging economicenvironment with, you know,
looms of a recession.
So, you know, and at the time wedidn't even know any of that.
(15:40):
We just knew pandemic was stilldealing a blow, and we had been
getting so much impact from onevariant to the next variant, and
we just kept going.
And so that was when we, the bigdecision to say it was a setback
, that's also a set, it was asetback.
And this was that we could notrun this company the way we
(16:00):
originally intended.
Our dreams of scaling andgrowing a fast-paced luxury
brand based in the US is notgonna happen, at least for now.
And the set up is to set thiscompany up to be local, to be
locally led in Africa, where wecan still empower women with the
hope that they can ultimatelybring it back to its former
(16:21):
glory.
You know, when the, when youknow, when there's a different
era of retail that's before them.
So it was a tremendous setbackto, and, and disappointment for
me, but also I'm just sograteful to God that he kept,
he, he kept alive the mission,which was the, the reason why I
came, the reason why investorsgave their money.
(16:43):
But I'm so grateful for theinvestors and people that did
give their money knowing, uh,that, you know, this was a risky
bet and ultimately that theybelieve in the mission more than
their financial return.
And I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah.
Well, as we start to wrap up ourconversation, um, I have a
couple questions.
First one, you know, we'vetalked about experiencing
setbacks and kind of thehindsight mentality that we have
about them of like, oh yeah,that was God.
And you know, we, it's, it's afaith thing and you know, that
kind of thing.
But I know in the moment,, when we encounter a
(17:20):
setback, most of us probablydon't feel that way immediately.
So, you know, when you have gonethrough these setbacks in your
life, what emotions immediatelycame to the surface?
Like, how did you keep yourselffrom getting just so incredibly
discouraged and just not movingforward?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, going back to cola, I mean, that's a great
question.
I think that when I had to makethat decision with the board,
cause they were gonna shut downthe US operation, there's a lot
of anger because like, God, whydid you pull me out of this
really tough journey with ACPenny, this beautiful season of
discernment.
(18:00):
I come to cola and do all ofthis work, you know, blood,
sweat, and tears, only to havethis conversation at the end
where, where is a redemption?
How, how does this possibly in,in serving a bigger mission?
And, and frankly, this justfeels mean and it feels cruel.
And, and I, I think so there's alot of anger there.
(18:24):
Um, but I think where I got to aplace of peace and of just
ultimate faith and trust in Godis like going back to that word
I've used before.
It was, it's a journey.
Like you have to look at it as ajourney.
It's never a moment where thelight bulb goes off.
It's conversations withinvestors and saying, okay,
remind, I'm gonna remind usagain about why we did what we
(18:45):
did.
This was not about us, it wasabout what God was doing for the
hearts of the poor.
Um, it's talking to the founder,Brit Underwood, who, you know,
gave 25 years of her life tothis work.
Yeah.
And said, okay, this is tough.
And, but it puts things inperspective when I only gave
four and you know, I'm talkingto the founder who laid her life
down to go to Uganda to have to,to make this decision with me.
(19:09):
Um, you know, that's tough.
And so praying with her everyday, and both of us honestly
weeping over the situation, gotus into perspective.
It was talking to friends thatsaid, Hey, Sheba, like again,
remind you, you're not definedby your work.
You did the best that you could.
We've all watched you.
We've been rooting for you, andyou did the best.
(19:30):
And now trust that the Lord isin this and nothing is wasted,
like I said before.
So those initial emotions arehard.
You're right, Jordan.
They're tough.
And there was a lot of anger anddisappointment, anger with God,
frustration with God, um,feeling like he was just wasting
my time and my talent.
Um, but then, you know, it'sthat journey of relationships
(19:53):
and people and getting in God'sword and praying that kind of
gets you through to the otherside.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And God uses those relationshipsand those people.
Yes.
So might not feel like it's him,but it's him.
He's using them.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, so in closing, my final question I ask
everybody, and I always enjoyhearing what everybody has to
say.
Uh, as you have gone throughyour life, what would you say is
the number one thing that hasdriven you forward?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Ooh.
Um, I wanna say that it isgiving myself grace, just giving
myself.
I'm not saying I do it well, butit's a thing that keeps me going
forward.
It's to say, okay, I messed up.
I'm gonna give myself grace.
I wasn't the best leader in thismoment.
I'm gonna give myself grace.
(20:48):
And as you give yourself grace,you give yourself, you give
grace to other people, and youend up dusting yourself off and
moving forward.
So to me, it's about givingmyself some grace.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I hope Hearing Shepa story, successes and setbacks
have inspired you to continuedriving forward in your own
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This episode is sponsored by Vision Trust.
Vision Trust is an organizationthat provides essential support
in the areas of health,education, and spiritual
development to children andadolescents living in poverty
around the world.
Vision Trust is brimming withfemale role models who are
investing in the next generationof women.
Their love is defiant.
(00:20):
It stands strong against allodds.
And yours can too.
Join us in raising up confidentyoung women that embrace their
God-given talents to create abetter future for us all.
Learn more at Visiontrust.org/welcome back to Driven
Forward Influential LeadersPowered by God's will.
(00:41):
I'm your host, Jordan Johnstone.
In the last episode, we metSheba Philip, and she talked us
through some of her topsuccesses and what God showed
her through those times.
In this episode, we're going todive into two of the major
setbacks Sheba has experiencedin her professional and personal
journey.
As Sheba says in this episode,in God's economy, nothing is
(01:03):
wasted, which is especially truefor the times when it feels like
there's no recovering from afailure.
Listen now to the rest of ourtime with Sheva.
Well, we ended the last episodetalking about why God allows us
to experience success.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so now what I would love tohear from you, uh, is kind of
the same question, but it'sabout setbacks instead.
(01:26):
So what do you think the purposeof setbacks is in our lives and
in God's plan for our lives?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Ooh, that's, it's, it's one I know is a hard topic
to talk about, but I'll talkabout it through a lens of a, a
s a setback, I'm sorry, or afailure that I experienced, and
I've talked about this before,but I can go a little bit deeper
on this.
You, I lost my job, um, manyyears ago when I was an
executive at JC Penney.
Up to that point, I had neverhad, frankly, I don't think I
(01:58):
did, I can't remember, but in myrecollection, never had a
mediocre performance review.
Um, always was promoted faster,you know, than I thought or, you
know, anticipated.
God just blessed me, blessed me,blessed me, blessed me in my
work.
I get to JC Penn.
I am the vice President ofmarketing.
I'm being asked to helptransform, uh, this very iconic,
(02:22):
uh, you know, brand.
And from, for long story short,it did not go as well as I had
hoped.
And I was asked to step downfrom my role because they were
gonna do a big restructuring ofthe executive team.
And I gotta tell you, Jordan,that was a really tough moment
receiving that news and goinghome.
And that, uh, marked a almosttwo year journey in processing
(02:46):
that failure and that setbackwith God.
And what I learned at the, outthe, at the core, and I'll go
back to that question you askedme in the prior episode about
who am I, God really had to tellme in through that failure.
You are my daughter first.
And for you are not a vicepresident of marketing or
(03:07):
potential CMO or businessstrategist.
Yes, those are things I amasking you to do in
participation with me.
It's why I've given you thesegiftings.
But at the end of the day, youridentity does not rest on what
you do, how you perform.
It rests on my son Jesus Christ.
And, and what, what he has saidon the cross for you.
(03:28):
And through that, you're mydaughter and I have a
relationship with you.
So that was probably the numberone thing God had to get me, get
my mind wrapped around wasidentity.
Because up to that point, myidentity was defined by my work
and what I did.
Mm-hmm.
And I remember those early days.
I would go to a cocktail partyand I was so used to people
(03:51):
saying, you know, you have aglass of wine.
And someone says, what do youdo?
Well, I'm vice president ofmarketing at JC Penn.
I'm part of a turnaround team.
I'm leading the brand.
And I had my answer mm-hmm.
After that moment of losing myjob, I did not know what to say.
I didn't know what to say.
What, what, well, who am I?
(04:12):
What do I do?
Blank.
And so that was really hard.
And God kept putting me in thesemoments of very, super
uncomfortable, awkward becausehe was forcing me to let go of
that identity and to help me toget to a place of humility to
say, you know, it's okay to sayI'm not doing anything right
(04:33):
now.
I'm in transition.
You know?
And that is, and that wasreally, really hard.
So I think to me, that was thenumber one thing.
Number one thing was my identity, um, I think, and, and the
failure was, I think was, andthe setback was for that.
The other reason I think hegives setback and failure, and I
(04:53):
can also tie back to JC Penney,is, you know, sometimes he wants
to kind of halt us because wearen't depending on him or doing
it through a selfish motivation,a selfish ambition or just heart
posture that isn't right.
And God's way of loving us is toput the breaks on it before we
(05:15):
self-destruct.
And I think for me, my work wasbecoming toxic.
I was approaching work through aneed of striving.
I was burnt out.
I was stressed.
I was, I just was dysfunctional,frankly.
And a lot of the way I wasleading at JC Penney at those
end days.
And I think the Lord finally hadto put the failure in, you know,
(05:38):
have me lose my job to reallyunderstand that I wasn't a
servant leader.
I had lost why I'm doing whatI'm doing.
It wasn't coming out of a placeof love.
It wasn't coming out of a placeof dependency on God and
humility.
And so, I hate to say it, Godneeded to do this to break my
pride and to, and to really helpme get to a place of kind of
(06:00):
Christ Center leadership that Ihad lost, um, for a while.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, the, thecocktail party experience that
you were talking about, that hasto be very common nowadays.
Oh yeah.
You know, with, with everythingthat happened with the pandemic
and just everything that's goneon with the workforce.
I mean, there are probably quitea few people listening to this
right now going, oh yeah, I knowexactly what that feeling is.
(06:27):
I know what you're talkingabout, but I love what you said.
I mean, sometimes it's gotta getuncomfortable.
Yes.
You know, you, you have to gothrough that because you're
just, like you said, strippingaway all of these little things
you've built up to presentyourself in such a way that it's
all about you, you know, andit's not about God anymore.
(06:48):
Exactly.
Right.
And you know, he doesn't likethat
So unless you are willing tolisten to, you know, cuz he
won't just out of nowhere ripthe rug out from underneath you.
He's probably along the way, youknow, whispered some things here
and there, sprinkled some stuffand mm-hmm.
where
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
We're so set in what we're doing that we don't see
it.
I, and you know,
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I also think, Jordan, I sorry to cut you off, but you,
you triggered a thought failure.
I think obviously failure allowsyou to, you know, rethink and
revisit your identity in, inChrist.
Yeah.
It breaks you of some pride inprobably dysfunctions that
you've been operating in.
Like for me that was myexperience.
But I think it also is a way tocourse correct and get you on
(07:32):
the right path, not even coursecorrect.
Yeah.
To the next step in yourjourney.
Like I think about a cola andrunning a early stage venture
and having incredible experience, um, building an early stage
company.
I never ever would've done thathad I not lost my job at JC
Penney.
So, so much of setback issetting up of the next step.
(07:58):
And if we look at it that way,it can be also incredibly
exciting.
So yes, there are very muchcorrection tools.
He's do, he's using mm-hmm.
things he's doing Yeah.
By getting you to fail.
Because if you don't fail and hegets, he's trying to kind of get
you ready for the nextassignment.
So I definitely think thatthat's a another real strategy
(08:22):
behind failure when it happens.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah.
Well, and I love this isharkening back to last month's
episodes with Cheryl Batchelder,but she said something, uh, when
we were talking about setbacksand she was sharing about one of
them, she said, you know, one ofthe jobs that she left, um, she
had worked so hard to build upthis servant leadership, um, you
know, company culture andeverybody was just so focused on
(08:46):
that and it operated reallywell.
And so that was like one of thebiggest heartbreaks for her when
that company totallyrestructured, was that she felt
like, wow, I just lost, youknow, those nine or 10 years
that I had just invested.
But she said it was, it's justbeen so rewarding and
comforting, I guess in a way tonow see all of those people that
(09:08):
she trained have gone out toother companies and now they're
doing the same thing there.
And that might not havehappened, you know, had they not
kind of been cut off from theparent company and then gone off
on these other things.
So yeah, it's, you don't knowwhat God's up to, but you don't
have to know what God's up to
You're just supposed to comealong, you know, and just trust
like we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And I think I, I love what you just said, and it
triggered a thought, you know,in God's economy, nothing is
wasted.
No, nothing is wasted.
There's a beautiful scripture,if I could look it up, right, I
would, but it's not Isaiah andIsaiah talk, like, it's just
talking about, like, these lastthree years was a moment.
The scripture's like those lastthree years, it was a, it was a
(09:51):
waste of time.
And God, you know, I, why did Ido?
Is I'm adli, the Lord responds,you know?
And he goes, no, he, he respondsand says, you know, I will take
heart because the Lord willultimately reward me.
And I think this idea of nothingis wasted was, was underneath
underpinning of that.
And in the case of Cheryl,that's so true.
(10:12):
And in the case of, even for me,it's like, you know, yeah, I, we
, we lay these seeds and thesefoundations in an organization
mm-hmm.
you know, or our own decision toleave, but we have to believe in
God's economy.
Those things have still beenplanted.
And even though we may not seethe harvest in our lifetime or
(10:33):
in in that, in that organizationwhile we're there, we still have
to believe nothing is wasted it,and that there is fruit that
will be born.
So I think that even when you'refaithful and you feel like
you've honored God, like in thecase of Cheryl, like she honored
the Lord and the servantleadership, there was still
failure.
Doesn't mean you're not gonnafail.
(10:53):
Like there's a real, you know,principle I wanna reinforce here
to the listeners, you could bedoing everything right, honoring
God, submitting to him, leadingwith humility, you know, being
faithful and you will stillfail.
And, and in that moment, theencouragement I wanna have for
you is that nothing is wasted.
That commit to God was notwasted.
(11:15):
And those seeds you planted aregonna bear fruit.
It may not be when you want, buthopefully God and His grace will
allow you to see it at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Mm.
Well I'm glad we, we went onthat little bit of a rabbit
trail there with that, but youwere able to talk through
actually organically, uh, yourfirst suspect that you sent me
was, was about JC Penney, andthat was the first time that you
really had been told, eh, youknow, it's not working.
And it was just kind of a blow
not how you are used tooperating.
Um, so I'm glad we were able totalk through that.
(11:47):
And so now the second setback,you also kind of mentioned a
little bit, um, but I'd love toget further into it, uh, because
it actually involves, like yousaid, Cola, which is a company
that forward is very familiarwith mm-hmm.
Um, you were instrumental inactually restructuring them.
And so some people might go,well, that sounds like a
(12:08):
success, not a setback, but youhad this big successful moment
with them and then, you know, alittle thing called a pandemic
Right.
Uh, so when did that successactually start to become a
setback?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Hmm.
Uh, well it was, it was alwayschallenging, but I think the
pandemic drove the real setbackof the company, like you said,
just to give the readerslistener sorry, context.
Um, Ola was a nonprofit for avery long time.
I joined in March, 2019 torestructure the company from a
(12:44):
nonprofit to a for-profit toraise our first round of
capital.
At the time, it was an excitingtime for a cola, it was in the
human markets, Marcus.
We were about to launch, we werelaunching in Nordstrom and in
Sac.
And we believed truly ourinvestment team and our board
that Cola had all thefundamentals, a great team in
(13:07):
Uganda, a great product, greatteam in Dallas, great
distribution to really scale.
And so our ambition at that timewas to be the first like luxury
jewelry brand that was groundedin a purpose of serving the poor
and, and creating jobs for women, uh, in the most marginalized
(13:28):
of communities, which is inUganda.
And we were off to the races,like you said, and we closed our
seed round in March, 2019,sorry, March, 2020, right as
Covid broke, right as Covidbroke.
Like, I literally closed aroundand the pandemic was announced
about a month later.
And, uh, our number one customerand even Marcus filed bankruptcy
(13:53):
weeks later and everythingstarted to kind of fall apart.
By God's grace we were able tostay, you know, um, and by the
grace and, and just provision ofour investors and our, our board
and our team, we still weatheredthe storm and we were able to
stay stable for the next coupleof years for the pandemic when
(14:13):
so many small businesses andretail shut down.
Um, we were really put, and oneother success is that we really
transformed the company from awholesale led company to a
digitally led company because wehad to, with the pandemic, there
was a lot of successes, like,you know, restructuring the
company, making it a luxurybrand, um, setting its course
(14:34):
for being an e-commerce firstbusiness.
Those were all great things, butthe setback really was, you
know, the start of the pandemicwas the start of the setback.
But the culmination of a setbackwas sitting with my board, um,
in early 2021 and saying,actually, I'm sorry, early 2022,
and saying, you know what, thisis just not a sustainable model.
(14:59):
Like if we really wannaultimately preserve the mission
for these women and really givethem a pathway outta poverty, we
need to make sure that theAfrica Division stays intact.
And the best way to do that isto set them off, empower them as
a local company to run and notbe weighed down by a really big
(15:19):
cost structure here in the us.
And the reality was the retailmarket, and it still hasn't
really completely rebounded fromc um, wholesalers are still
struggling, and now we'reentering into a potential, you
know, challenging economicenvironment with, you know,
looms of a recession.
So, you know, and at the time wedidn't even know any of that.
(15:40):
We just knew pandemic was stilldealing a blow, and we had been
getting so much impact from onevariant to the next variant, and
we just kept going.
And so that was when we, the bigdecision to say it was a setback
, that's also a set, it was asetback.
And this was that we could notrun this company the way we
(16:00):
originally intended.
Our dreams of scaling andgrowing a fast-paced luxury
brand based in the US is notgonna happen, at least for now.
And the set up is to set thiscompany up to be local, to be
locally led in Africa, where wecan still empower women with the
hope that they can ultimatelybring it back to its former
(16:21):
glory.
You know, when the, when youknow, when there's a different
era of retail that's before them.
So it was a tremendous setbackto, and, and disappointment for
me, but also I'm just sograteful to God that he kept,
he, he kept alive the mission,which was the, the reason why I
came, the reason why investorsgave their money.
(16:43):
But I'm so grateful for theinvestors and people that did
give their money knowing, uh,that, you know, this was a risky
bet and ultimately that theybelieve in the mission more than
their financial return.
And I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah.
Well, as we start to wrap up ourconversation, um, I have a
couple questions.
First one, you know, we'vetalked about experiencing
setbacks and kind of thehindsight mentality that we have
about them of like, oh yeah,that was God.
And you know, we, it's, it's afaith thing and you know, that
kind of thing.
But I know in the moment,
(17:20):
setback, most of us probablydon't feel that way immediately.
So, you know, when you have gonethrough these setbacks in your
life, what emotions immediatelycame to the surface?
Like, how did you keep yourselffrom getting just so incredibly
discouraged and just not movingforward?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, going back to cola, I mean, that's a great
question.
I think that when I had to makethat decision with the board,
cause they were gonna shut downthe US operation, there's a lot
of anger because like, God, whydid you pull me out of this
really tough journey with ACPenny, this beautiful season of
discernment.
(18:00):
I come to cola and do all ofthis work, you know, blood,
sweat, and tears, only to havethis conversation at the end
where, where is a redemption?
How, how does this possibly in,in serving a bigger mission?
And, and frankly, this justfeels mean and it feels cruel.
And, and I, I think so there's alot of anger there.
(18:24):
Um, but I think where I got to aplace of peace and of just
ultimate faith and trust in Godis like going back to that word
I've used before.
It was, it's a journey.
Like you have to look at it as ajourney.
It's never a moment where thelight bulb goes off.
It's conversations withinvestors and saying, okay,
remind, I'm gonna remind usagain about why we did what we
(18:45):
did.
This was not about us, it wasabout what God was doing for the
hearts of the poor.
Um, it's talking to the founder,Brit Underwood, who, you know,
gave 25 years of her life tothis work.
Yeah.
And said, okay, this is tough.
And, but it puts things inperspective when I only gave
four and you know, I'm talkingto the founder who laid her life
down to go to Uganda to have to,to make this decision with me.
(19:09):
Um, you know, that's tough.
And so praying with her everyday, and both of us honestly
weeping over the situation, gotus into perspective.
It was talking to friends thatsaid, Hey, Sheba, like again,
remind you, you're not definedby your work.
You did the best that you could.
We've all watched you.
We've been rooting for you, andyou did the best.
(19:30):
And now trust that the Lord isin this and nothing is wasted,
like I said before.
So those initial emotions arehard.
You're right, Jordan.
They're tough.
And there was a lot of anger anddisappointment, anger with God,
frustration with God, um,feeling like he was just wasting
my time and my talent.
Um, but then, you know, it'sthat journey of relationships
(19:53):
and people and getting in God'sword and praying that kind of
gets you through to the otherside.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And God uses those relationshipsand those people.
Yes.
So might not feel like it's him,but it's him.
He's using them.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Well, so in closing, my final question I ask
everybody, and I always enjoyhearing what everybody has to
say.
Uh, as you have gone throughyour life, what would you say is
the number one thing that hasdriven you forward?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Ooh.
Um, I wanna say that it isgiving myself grace, just giving
myself.
I'm not saying I do it well, butit's a thing that keeps me going
forward.
It's to say, okay, I messed up.
I'm gonna give myself grace.
I wasn't the best leader in thismoment.
I'm gonna give myself grace.
(20:48):
And as you give yourself grace,you give yourself, you give
grace to other people, and youend up dusting yourself off and
moving forward.
So to me, it's about givingmyself some grace.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I hope Hearing Shepa story, successes and setbacks
have inspired you to continuedriving forward in your own
journey at work and in life.
If you enjoyed this episode,please take a moment to leave a
review on whichever podcastplatform you're listening on.
Your feedback helps us know whatyou wanna hear more of and also
helps others learn more about usand join the Driven forward
(21:22):
audience.
If you haven't already, pleasetake a moment to subscribe to
Driven Forward on your preferredlistening platform.
To learn more about Forward, youcan visit forward women.org.
That's the number four w o r d wo m e n.org.
And you can follow us on socialmedia where we post weekly blogs
information about upcomingevents, and share inspirational
(21:44):
quotes and verses to help youget through your day.
We hope you've enjoyed DrivenForward this year, and from all
of us at Forward.
We wish you and your loved onesa very merry Christmas and a
happy New Year.
Thanks for listening.
Many women ask how they canbecome a member of Forward
Journey.
Forward is the answer Forwardonly exists because of the
(22:08):
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We have a big goal in front ofus to empower 10 million
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(22:29):
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