Setbacks Are a Tool to Help Us Flourish - Cheryl Bachelder: Part 2

In the last episode, we met Cheryl Bachelder, former CEO of Popeyes® Louisiana Kitchen, Inc. We spent the previous episode talking about Cheryl’s top successes, and in this episode, we’re going to jump over to the list of setbacks she identified as important to how she grew as a professional and a Christian, even when in the moment, these setbacks hurt.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Welcome back to Driven ForwardInfluential leaders, powered by
God's will.
I'm your host, Jordan Johnstone.
In the last episode, we metCheryl Batchelder, former CEO of
Popeye's.

(00:42):
We spent the previous episodetalking about Cheryl's top
successes, and in this episode,we're going to jump over to the
list of setbacks she identifiedas important to how she grew as
a professional and a Christian,even when in the moment these
setbacks hurt.
Listen now to the rest of ourtime with Cheryl.
We ended the last episodetalking about why God allows us

(01:05):
to experience success.
So now I wanna ask the samequestion, but about setbacks
instead.
So what do you think the purposeof setbacks is in our lives?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
From a faith perspective, I think the purpose
of a setback is to draw us closeto God.
Um, and sometimes setbackshappen when we thought we were
close to God, and he draws ustighter still, uh, to teach us
to grow us in some fashion.
Sometimes setbacks happen whenwe're a long way from God and

(01:39):
paying attention to his intentfor our life, and he yanks us
back into close proximity, uh,to him and his purposes.
And so, um, I think most of uswould say, uh, setback.
I call them trials andtribulations, not usually that
much fun.

(02:00):
Uh, not usually something we goseeking out, but often the
source of a lesson, a learning,a growth spurt, if you will, in
our understanding of God andwhat he would have for us and
what makes flourishing for us.
I believe God's trying to createa place we will be flourish.
We're all the obstacle to that.

(02:22):
Um, so, um, they're very muchfor our wellbeing, uh, despite
some of the pain attached tothem.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah.
Now I'd like to have you talk usthrough what you've identified
as these setbacks in your life.
And I'd also love to have youtalk about what each of these
setbacks have taught you andmade possible for you to move
forward.
Mm-hmm.
.
Um, the first is something thatI thought was so interesting to
learn about you.
You were accepted into a premiermusic school as a piano major,

(02:54):
so how did that turn into asetback for you?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, obviously I'm not a concert pianist today,
, so the outcome issecure.
Um, you know, it, I was a, uh,accompanist to my high school
choir, is where that allstarted.
I played the piano since I wasfour year old, a four year old.
My mother was my piano teacher,and then eventually I got really

(03:19):
talented piano teachers thatchallenged me and made me
better.
But I had this one opportunityto audition for the music school
at Indiana University.
It is the highest ranking statefunded school in music and
probably the number two of allprivate schools in music.
It's a phenomenal music school.
And literally my music directorsaid, If you get into this

(03:42):
school, you must go.
So that was kind of theapproach.
I auditioned, I was shocked toget in and I went.
Um, but you know, like many ofus find out the first thing you
try in school or life isn'talways the best thing too.
Um, and so I brought my bestmusic skills to Indiana

(04:02):
University.
Um, I was a long way from beingof the caliber of student that
ends up being a concert pianist.
I was just hoping to be a musicteacher in a high school
somewhere,.
But the program was prettyintimidating and demanding.
And I, the setback was you hadto, at the end of your sophomore

(04:23):
year, perform for the pianofaculty and they would tell you
whether or not you could goforward in your study.
It was called a jury.
And it felt like a jury.
Yeah.
It was scary tense.
And, uh, in my case, the outcomewas, well, my piano teacher, uh,
a respected faculty member atthe school thought I had made

(04:44):
tremendous product progress andwas playing beautifully.
One of his friends, a Russianpianist lady, had not agree with
him, stood up and, and called mypiano playing something,
something that meant the wordtrash.
I don't know.
It was, it was not a nice word.
Whatever word she used, um,devastating to me.

(05:07):
I was, uh, you know, I hadworked as hard as I'd ever
worked to get to the level of,of piano playing that I was at
that day.
And I was pretty devastated byher very frank feedback and
perhaps an overreaction.
But out of that, you know, blowto my confidence, I quit.
I said, I am not cut out forthis.
This is not for me.

(05:28):
But it led to a lot of good selfassessment about what my wiring
was and my skills.
I was not wired to be in a pianopractice room by myself eight
hours a day.
I'm an expert.
I love people.
I love teamwork.
I love to make things happen ingroups.
Very social person.
So I just wasn't meant to bethere.

(05:48):
Um, and sometimes that's whatsetbacks reveal.
They just reveal, uh, I was justin the wrong place and I need to
make an edit, a change, uh, thatwill line me up better with
God's plan, with my gifts, um,and, uh, lead to a better
outcome.
So I have no regrets about goingto music school.
I ended up, you know, staying atIndiana University and things

(06:09):
turned out well for me.
So it was a, a necessary setback,

Speaker 1 (06:15):
.
Well, and the next setback thatyou listed is one that I think a
lot of our listeners are gonnabe able to empathize with.
Mm-hmm.
.
Um, when you were in yourmid-career, a series of events
happened that really tested you.
So can you share maybe just alittle bit more about that time?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yes.
I think all of us who do, uh,this merger thing between family
and work hit these family andwork stress times.
So I thought it was reallyimportant to talk about them.
This particular setback was, um,we had been married 10 years.
We had two children that were,let's say one and six.

(06:54):
So very, those young, verydemanding, don't get a lot of
sleep years.
Um, both my husband and I worked.
He traveled extensively.
I, uh, also traveled.
I mean, this was a demandingtime in our lives.
Um, and this was the first timewe had, um, family demands, um,
of our parents come on top ofthat.

(07:14):
My husband's parents were olderthan mine, and therefore they
were having health issues andchallenges before mine did.
Um, and right after, uh, youknow, that first year of our
second child's life, um, myhusband's mother passed away
suddenly unexpectedly, and hisfather, uh, was diagnosed with
cancer.

(07:35):
And I think, um, you can imaginethat that was call for kind of,
Oh my goodness, let's think thisall through.
Let's reassess.
We were a long way from them.
They lived in Michigan, we livedin North Carolina.
So I think for Chris and I, wejust kind of stepped back and
said, What's the message in thistime of life?

(07:56):
What is the, the priority?
Uh, how do we think about workand family at a time like this?
And to kind of fast forward, uh,that set of challenges led us,
we call it, in retrospect, wecall it our joint midlife
crisis.
We really weren't in midlifeyet, but kind of an early
midlife crisis.
Uh, we both quit our jobs.

(08:17):
I don't recommend that, butthat's what uh, we
decided to move back to Michiganand make sure that we took care
of our family needs first andwere there to be a support to
his dad.
Um, as he mourned the loss ofhis wife and dealt with cancer
treatments.
And we decided, you know, not toleave his sister alone in that

(08:39):
challenge.
He has one, uh, living sister.
And so, um, we went back there,uh, without jobs and without
clarity about how the careerthing would work out.
Uh, but we trusted that if wemade the priority right, the
career would later sort itselfout.
And, and it did.
The, the testimony I would giveyou is I think when God gets

(09:01):
your attention to a familycircumstance that needs your
full attention, um, you'll stillbe there when you need to go
back and sort out the careerside of it.
Um, so we did that.
We both did some consultingprojects to kind of make ends
meet, and then we both, uh,landed in a new role.
I landed at Domino's Pizza, andthen Chris landed, uh, back in

(09:23):
the consulting field again.
And things went on from a careerstandpoint, but we had never, uh
, you never wanna look back onthose family, uh, times when
your family needs you and say,Oh, geez, we were kind of too
busy at work to sort that out.
So we were always, uh, blessed.
Um, we had four really goodyears with Chris' dad.

(09:46):
Our got to know himreally well.
There were a lot of joy, a lotof celebration and laughter,
even though he was very sick andthere was a lot of challenge.
So no regrets and important totalk about those kinds of
setbacks.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Mm.
And your next setback is, iskind of on the same thread.
Um, back in 2001, uh, youreceived a can, a breast cancer
diagnosis.
So what went through your mindwhen you got that news?
How did that affect your plansand the goals that you had set
for yourself?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, context for those who don't know me, uh,
well, I am a planner to a fault.
I mean, I plan everything.
Um, if I hadn't been a ceo, Iwould've been a wedding planner.
You know, I just have plannerfor a middle name.
Um, so everything has a plan.
I'm very, you know, type A touse the term.

(10:39):
Um, and up till this point in mylife, most of my plans had been
executed more or less.
You know, I hadn't had a wholelot of setbacks on my plans.
Um, but this was my moment.
I, uh, had a routine mammogram,no issues, web, you know, went
on with my life like you do.

(11:01):
And just a few months later, Idiscovered a lump in my breast.
I went back to the doctor andsaid, Hey, mammogram looked
fine, but this doesn't seemfine, so let's check it out.
And she goes, Oh, I'm sure it'snothing.
And, uh, but long story short,we did a biopsy, It was breast
cancer, and it caught my doctorby surprise.
And me by more surprise, I'llnever forget, the uh, surgeon

(11:25):
who did the biopsy, pushed alegal pad and a pen across the
table.
And he said, um, I have to tellyou, I was surprised, but you
have state form breast cancerand I'm giving you this pad pen,
cuz I find no one ever rememberswhat I say after that.
And, uh, he was right.
Uh, if I'd not had a piece ofnotebook paper in front of me, I

(11:48):
would have no clue what he saidafter that, you know, they
immediately start saying, Here'swhat we're gonna do next, next.
And you're gonna have thissurgery, You're gonna go through
this treatment and blah, blah,blah.
And your brain is frozen on thefirst set, Right?
You have breast cancer.
There was no history of breastcancer in my family.
I mean, there was no reason tosuspect that, Oh, by the way, um

(12:09):
, hardly any breast cancercases, uh, stem from genetic
history.
So just as a, a little warninglight for everybody, the reason
we do these bans routinely isthere is no predictor of who
gets breast.
So, um, go to your checkups, Um, as a setback though, um,

(12:30):
you know, it, you of courseimmediately start thinking about
death, you know, and who's gonnaraise your children?
And is your husband gonna marryAll kinds of crazy things go on.
And, and I remember yelling atmy husband that when I died, he
would have to re remarry becausehe didn't know how to do hair
barts, um,.
It wasn't kind, it wasn'tlogical.

(12:50):
But that's the kind of thingthat you think about when
mortality comes into question.
Over time, though, that's areally good question to ask
yourself is if my life is cutshort, um, or shorter than I
think, um, mm-hmm,what will be my story?
And will I have lived out, uh,my life for the best of my

(13:13):
beliefs and my values?
Um, so in the long run, I wasreally glad that question came.
While I was still relativelyyoung, I was 45 and I had time,
uh, to make some adjustments,you know, um, one is to get more
comfortable that God is theplanner, uh, not Cheryl.
Um, and that I needed to be alittle bit more surrendered to

(13:35):
the right.
Um, and less, um, confused aboutwho was in control.
It taught me a lot about thesovereignty of God.
It told me a lot about trustingGod in difficult circumstances.
Um, I now, I can't talk about itwithout doing this with my
hands, which is unlocking yourclinch.
You know, unlike and opennessyour palms and, uh, being open

(13:58):
to what God has for you, becausethat's really how we're intended
to live life.
It's not that we're gonna knowall the answers or have a plan
that works out just perfectly.
It's that we're going to beconfident enough in our God, in
our faith to walk open handedtowards the things he has for
us.
And breast cancer really openedthat up to me.

(14:20):
Um, that's what I read, ThePurpose Driven Life by reform,
transformative understandingabout what the purpose of life
is.
Um, it's when I really thoughtabout what I wanted in my life
and work to stand for and gotmore serious about that, I
started studying theintersection of faith and work,
which has become my primary areaof ministry.

(14:43):
I started studying, uh, thisidea of servant leadership
deeply and what legacy I mightbe able to lead or contribute in
that arena to change the courseof the dialogue.
Um, I guess the sum total ofthat is it just made me a very
intentional person because Iknew that life was short.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
In the last episode, you mentioned that Popeye's
ended up being the capstone ofyour career, but that wasn't
actually what you thought wouldbe the capstone of your career.
You had had an earlier position.
Um, and so this brings us toyour next setback where again,
supposed to be the capstone ofyour career success, uh, but
instead it ended up being adisappointing setback.

(15:25):
So let's talk about whathappened when you were working
with kfc.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, it all began, uh, while I was at Domino's
Pizza, I was recruited by, um,young Brands, which is the
largest restaurant company inthe world to come to Louisville
and run a division of thecompany KFC restaurants.
Um, Young was a really fancy,impressive company.

(15:51):
They were known for theirculture, for their success.
They were globally buildingrestaurants all over the world.
They were an exciting place.
And I was very drawn to theopportunity I was gonna be their
first female in the executivesuite.
I mean, there was just all kindsof, uh, excitement around the
opportunity.

(16:12):
Um, however, um, 14 months laterafter arriving there and being
the celebrated new femaleexecutive, uh, the business
started to perform poorly.
Um, the, uh, brand KFC cameunder attack, uh, around, um,
the handling of chickens, whichwas a, uh, major public issue at

(16:37):
the time.
There was a movie made aboutfast food that spoke negatively
about the brand.
There were a lot of what I callexternal forces, um, turning
against the KFC brand.
And that was, uh, uh, thecatalyst or sales declines in
the company.
When you work in a publiccompany, um, your job is sales

(17:00):
have to be up and profits haveto be up.
It's real simple.
Um, a friend of mine used tosay, All the areas have to be
going up and to the right, uh, for you to still be there.
And so, uh, it's just true,right?
That's, um, businesses aresupposed to be, we're supposed
to grow them.
We're supposed to grow themprofitably so that the business

(17:21):
can be reinvested.
And there's nothing wrong withgrowing sales and growing
profitability.
It's in fact the whole point ofcreating a prosperous
institution.
And so, uh, sales went down andprofitability for the next 12
months.
And I came under a lot ofpressure.
And eventually in September, uh,of 2003, I was fired on a Friday

(17:41):
afternoon.
Uh, the boss said something likethis just isn't gonna work out.
And uh, HR is waiting outside inthe, the hall to talk to you.
words.
No one ever wants to hear.
No.
I actually, my good friend wasthe head of hr, so I got to go
outside and talk about this withmy very good friend Ann.
So, Wow.

(18:02):
But again, I, the way I sum upthat setback is after debriefing
it in my head and learning fromwhat happened at kfc, I can tell
you that every tenant of the wayI led Popeye's to success was
based on the learning that cameout of that setback.

(18:24):
Again, I can't feel bad aboutthe setback and mourn that it
was really rough, that itknocked my confidence that it,
uh, led me to struggle a bit fora few years as to what I would
do next.
But in the end, it waspreparation.
It was preparation for theopportunity that would come to
me at Popeye's.
And I would not have been inposition to lead Popeye's as

(18:47):
effectively had I not had thattime.
So that's what I encouragepeople, when you have a setback,
learn from it as quickly as youcan and use that as preparation
for the next opportunity thatwill present itself.
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
The last setback that we're gonna talk about actually
still kind of follows that sametrain of thought that we were
just talking about.
Um, and it talks and it tiesback to what you listed as your
greatest career success in theprevious episode.
So after a decade with Popeye's,uh, a turn of events happened
that was detrimental to thisamazing company culture that you

(19:27):
had worked just so tirelessly tobuild, what did that time in
your life feel like?

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Um, it was a huge personal, uh, disappointment.
You know, a lot of people tellyou that, uh, as a leader, the
legacy is what happens afteryou're gone.
And I think, frankly, I boughtinto that a bit because in this
circumstance what happened is,by the way, I didn't own this

(19:56):
company.
This was a public company ownedby its shareholders and the
board represents theirshareholders.
And unexpectedly we got thisvery high offer, purchased the
company and the board voted tosell the company at that price.
The outcome, and I knew it wouldbe the outcome, so that new
owners did not share our passionfor servant leadership and the

(20:21):
franchising business.
They had a different businessmodel.
And I knew that everything thatwe had put in place around
servant leadership purposeprinciples would be dismantled
in rapid fire order.
And that was hard to reconcile,right?
You just invested nine, 10 yearsof your life and many other
people's lives.
Um, it was sad.

(20:43):
It broke my heart.
I felt responsible for thepeople that would be left behind
because of course I wasn't gonnabe there when a company sold.
The CEO is the first to be shownthe door.
So, um, I really broken hearted,but here's the faith lesson.
And it, it came from mydaughter, uh, Katie, who during

(21:04):
the sale decision of the board,knew I was distraught.
And she sent me, um, a fewparagraphs from a piece of
literature called from Olian.
I'm not an avid reader of Olianand I had never seen this piece
before.
But in short, what this piece isabout is that in fact God is

(21:29):
painting a picture in heaventhat we can only see a small
part of.
And he talks about an artist waspainting a picture of a
beautiful tree, but yet he couldonly see a part of that tree,
the beautiful leaves that he'dfinished so far.
And when God took him to heaven,he was so disappointed that he
hadn't finished his thing.

(21:51):
And then God revealed to himwhat that tree really looked
like in heaven.
So what does that all mean?
What that meant to me is that,uh, I didn't have any idea what
God's plan was for that.
I needed to trust him for it.
What the really cool things thathappened is that all my well
trained servant leaders weresent out to other restaurant

(22:14):
companies and have done aphenomenal job of spreading that
approach and creatingenvironments where people
thrive.
And I'm so proud of them.
And that's a wow thing that Icould have never foreseen.
So, you know, I went throughthis low as me how sad thing,
which we all do.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I'll say very natural.
It's very

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Natural.
It's a little bit, uh,self-centered.
Um, but the center you can getover that wo as me thing the
better and just start watchingfor what God's up to, uh, step
that breaks your heart may justbe the beginning of something
very important and good in hiskingdom.
Trust him enough to say, I willwait to see that happen.

(22:56):
Um, and I will trust, uh, thatyou have a better plan than
anything I could have had.
And that has certainly beentrue, uh, in my personal
experience.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah.
When you've encountered setbacksin your life, and you've kind of
touched on this here and there,but I'd like to hear more cuz
you, you're just a depth ofknowledge of this, but what
emotions have immediately cometo the surface when you first
encounter a setback and youknow, in the past, even
currently, how do you keepyourself from getting
discouraged and just not wantingto move forward?

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes.
Well, this is probably the mostinfluential part of reading the
Purpose Driven Life, uh, for mebecause page one, the purpose
Driven Life says the purpose ofyour life.
It's not about you.
And then he goes on and hewrites a paragraph about, it's
also not about your family.
It's not about your plan, it'snot about your job.
It's, it really, it's not aboutyou at all.

(23:52):
It's about God's plan for hiskingdom.
Um, and so I frame it up thatway because I think my first
reaction to setbacks is probablyvery similar to everybody
else's.
It's, it is this inward looking,you know, how did this happen to
me?
Why me?

(24:13):
Questions, why now?
Lord, you know, there's a lot ofthis in the Psalms.
I mean, it's, it's been part ofour human history forever,
right?
That there's a setback that wedon't understand.
Um, and I think to try to makeyour first question instead of
why me or why now in my life, topivot that question to what are

(24:34):
you up to guys and how can Iadjust my thinking and join you
there?
I'm a big fan of, uh, HenryBlack Abe's work around
experience in God.
And I love, uh, that Biblestudy.
In fact, it just came outupdated by his son Richard
Blackaby.
And what I love about the studyis it's this very philosophy of

(24:58):
our faith, which is to wake upand look around and see what
God's up to enjoy him there.
And that has helped me be betterin set setbacks.
I still fall apart likeeverybody else initially, but to
try to step back from that andsay, certainly God knows better
than I, he's up to somethingbigger than I can see right now.

(25:21):
And I'm gonna start looking forclue as to where he would have
me focus next, where he has workthat needs to be done, where
other people have a purpose inhis role that I hadn't seen
coming.
So open mind, open eyes, uh, anda lot more trust in his plan.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Well, as we wrap up our time today, um, I would love
to ask you a question that I askeverybody who comes on here, and
that is, what would you say isthe number one thing that has
driven you forward in your life?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Mm gosh.
I, I would have to say, youknow, we're all wired a certain
way.
Uh, and I'm wired for learning.
You know, that's why I read somany books and study and
constantly trying to advance myunderstanding of things.
And I think that's, that wiringhas been really central to who I

(26:15):
am and how I live.
I I say leaders should stopleading when they stop learning
because we can't be, um, humanbeings growing and becoming
better and teaching other peoplehow to grow and become better if
we stop ourselves.
And so right now my husband andI are doing something called the
Colson Fellows.
It's a one year study course ona Christian worldview.

(26:38):
I've never done so much readingin my life and it's really heavy
stuff.
Um, but it's rich to belearning.
It is fulfill to be learning, uh, and it always leads to
something right, Uh, a newinsight, a new action, a new
perspective that you want toframe up your life around.

(26:58):
So I would say learning is thecentral theme in my life.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
I hope hearing Cheryl's story, successes and
setbacks have inspired you tocontinue driving forward on your
own journey at work and in life.
If you enjoyed this episode,please take a moment to leave a
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