Phil Heath | EP139

Phil Heath joins the show this week.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Continuously work on self development to understand
that life is not easy, but let'snot make it hard.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome everyone to the driving vision podcast
brought to you by the ZiglerAuto Group. I'm your host, Sam
Dark. Be sure to subscribe tothe podcast. Like it if you do,
and leave a comment. Hey,driving vision fans.
Today, we have a truly specialguest joining us, 7 time mister
Olympia champion, Phil Heath,known for his incredible work

(00:36):
ethic and unmatched dedicationto the sport of bodybuilding.
Phil has inspired countlessathletes and fitness enthusiasts
around the world. In thisepisode, we'll deep dive into
his journey from his early daysin the gym to his rise as one of
sports legends. We'll explorethe mindset that propelled him
to success, his trainingregimen, and what he's up to now

(00:58):
as he transitions beyondcompetition. So whether you're a
die hard bodybuilding fan orjust looking for some motivation
to pursue your goals, you do notwanna miss this conversation.
So let's jump right in. Hey,everybody. Welcome to this
episode of the Driving Visionpodcast. Joining us today, 7
time champion, mister Olympia,Phil Heath. And I know you don't

(01:22):
like to be introduced that way,but that's how I'm gonna set you
up.
All good. You are, Mike, as youtalked about today, like someone
that's won a Super Bowl 7 times,won, world series 7 times. The
level that you have excelled inthis area is substantial. And
you just spent time with us hereat the Ziegler Auto Group in our
locker room. So before I go toour big question, what's it like

(01:45):
for you?
What's it been like for youbeing here with team Ziegler
over these past couple days?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Oh my gosh. It's been very fulfilling for me to be
around a group of people whounderstand that to win requires
a lot of drive, patience, mellowfortitude, but the willingness
to communicate effectively withothers. Yeah. I think that's

(02:10):
huge. It seems like you guyshave like like when I was in
there in the locker room, I hadfamily up there.
Yeah. No. This is because of theknowledge that you guys have
continuously poured into eachand every one. There's all your
clients. So it was verycomfortable for me.
I didn't give like the normal,it has to be this way, very
rigid structured speech. It wasmore free flowing because I was

(02:31):
like, I needed to allow myselfto be with the family and not be
7 time, mister Olympia, but thenI feel he.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Which by the way is pretty cool because we always
talk, Mike. We always talk abouthow we compete together to make
each other better. Mhmm. Andthere's a difference between
competing together to get betterto achieve a family goal Mhmm.
And trying to kill each other.
Right? Correct.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I mean, we we all love that healthy competition.
Yeah. But it can get very toxic.Yeah. And it usually is derived
of someone not feelingimportant.
Yeah. And I've mentioned itbefore, not feeling seen or
heard Yeah. Or both. And, havingsome traumatic moments early on
in life that just through youadapting through those troubles

(03:12):
Yeah. Made you say, well, thisis my time.
Screw you. This is my time.Mhmm. When really when it comes
to a team aspect, it's like, no.It's our time, and you'll still
be acknowledged.
You could still be a part of achampionship team and still be
the most valuable player. Yeah.But doesn't it feel to win with
a team and show some realeffective leadership?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I think so. Wow. You know, those words, and then
we'll ask our big question,remind me of what Kirk Gibson
who joined us. He's a 2 timeworld series champion baseball
player and was responsible for 2of the most iconic moments in
sports history. He said the samething Monday night when he spoke
to us.
He said his coach said, itdoesn't matter if you get that
world series if you do it byyourself, and you do it out of

(03:56):
resentment for other people, butif you join that team and you do
it together and you'revulnerable together and you work
together towards that,

Speaker 1 (04:02):
it means everything. Right? Absolutely. I mean,
you're you're trying to I canonly imagine what it would feel
like to be on a big team likethat and him rounding those
bases doing Yeah. You know, I'mdoing that.
It's it's one of those thingswhere I'm sure because of his
intention, hard work,everything, they all could
celebrate with him. Yeah. Youwould always want to be able to

(04:24):
have that sense of, joy thatpeople also on that team were
happy for you. Yeah. And I and Ibelieve that he was able to
experience that.
And and with all that said, Imean, create a great memory.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I mean, they created a memory. A bond. I mean Yeah. A
memory. Yes.
Yeah. Because I I know thatthose teams, those sports teams,
they have, like, those reunions.Yeah. I'm sure they're always
happy to see one another. Theygotta relive those things.
But like you said earlier, ifyou were to do it through the
negativity, the anger,frustration, that meant, you'd
say, yeah. We won, but screwthat guy. I would not really

(04:56):
care about that person. Really?You don't get man.
Yeah. He's a jerk. He's this. II personally would not like
that. No.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
So you're 7 time champion. You hang with the
likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger,right, in in the same class as,
you have a documentary, which iscool as heck. I watched it,
yesterday. It's available onApple everywhere. The Rock Mhmm.
Was involved with that. Yes.You've done incredible things.
You hang with incredible people.You've moved past this

(05:25):
bodybuilding phase of yourcareer.
So our our big question is,what's your vision of the world
today? And how are you workingtoday in this moment of life to
change the world, to continuechanging the world? You've
already changed it.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right. I think you take it as you were saying, I
take a deep breath because Irealize that the world has
always been the world, man. Imean, it's always been filled
with a lot of depressed peoplethat are just trying to find
their way. Yeah. A lot of anger,frustration, people that have
those limiting beliefs based onwhat societal pressures has put
onto them.
But then there's also hope. Andwe find that within maybe a

(06:00):
coach, an idol that they mayfind nowadays on social media.
But it could be a pastor, itcould be a teammate. You know,
usually you would say a familymember, but I realize now
there's a lot of families thatare broken. Yeah.
And it's because they lacksecure attachment. And those

(06:21):
parents don't necessarily havethe words to know how to
illustrate their thoughts. So ifthey can't communicate clearly
as to what they're feeling,they're not emotionally capable
of helping their kids. So nowthey walk around. Lights are on,
but no one's home.
And the kid now has to learn,like, is dad really upset or is

(06:43):
he just thinking about somethingelse? But the dad ain't telling
the kids that he just enduredsome hell at work. Yeah. And the
mom doesn't know how tocommunicate and but yet they
have this family. So we live ina world that there's a lot of
people that are highlydisconnected even though we
should be more connected.

(07:04):
But I see my passion and my pathnow beyond the stage is to
remind, especially young men andeven older men, you're not alone
in your thoughts, man. You don'thave to be alone there. You're
gonna be alone, but you're notalone as far as, like, the pain
that you may have endured, thewords that make you that drown

(07:26):
out your dream, that suffocateyou at night, that keep you up
at night because you were toldthat you were no good, and that
decrease your worth instead ofempower you to feel worthy. So
my job is to remind people thatyou are worthy for incredible
things, but it's what's beshould be in here Yeah. And in
here, not in here, that you'vegot to remember that even on my

(07:51):
worst day, I know that I stillgot breath in this lung, so
therefore I can get to work andI can work on myself.
And more importantly, selfdevelopment should be beyond, I
would say for me, faith isnumber 1, but self development
has to be there. Mhmm. Becauseif I don't have self
development, that means I thinkI know everything. Mhmm. And
that means I have a a very,fixed mindset, fixed you know,

(08:11):
instead of a growth mindset, Icould not come here and and
expect to learn something fromeach each of you guys if I just
said, I know everything.
He said, no, dude. So for theworld, we have to be a little
bit more calm. We have to stayaccountable. But we also have to
show compassion to ourselvesfirst and then work on that self
development. That's amazing.
Phil, in relation to

Speaker 3 (08:32):
you using the word pain, your winning mindset,
what's your view of pain and theobstacles?

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean, pain can be, you know, the trauma that you
had growing up. You know, forme, it could be, you know, for
instance, a lot of parents aregetting ready for Christmas and
stuff. Right? So my birthday isa week before and I remember 2
consecutive years our house gotbroken into. That was painful to
watch.
Yeah. You were wondering like,where's my toys? Why is this
like this? Why can't my parentslike ensure that we live in a

(09:01):
safer place? It was painful tosee like your stuff ransacked,
but then you realize that somethings just aren't fair.
Pain would be having someone whoyou would consider a friend
betray you and maybe inbusiness. And you realize that
it wasn't the fact that theywere intentionally trying to
hurt you. They were just tryingto fulfill their dream. And that

(09:23):
meant that you weren't going tosurvive in this business and
that their intention was just tobe famous, maybe to make some
more money and you weren'tincluded in that. That was more
their problem.
So I've had to deal with thosedifferent types of pain. But to
leverage it Yeah. I thinkrequires a lot of vulnerability.
And what we shared earlier whatI shared earlier was I'm guilty

(09:46):
of numbing the pain. Going tothe gym, I feel like you could
numb the pain.
You can get through that day,that horrible event that may
have occurred by going to thegym. And they and they always
say like even breakups makegreat bodybuilders, right? Yeah.
But you're still dealing withthat pain because the best time
you meet an individual, male orfemale, right, you end up

(10:07):
talking about your ex. Youdidn't really deal with it.
You just masked it and now youlook better, but are you really
feeling better? No. Deeplyrooted issues requires a lot of
self seeking of the answer. AndI think that it requires solace.
I think if you were to maybedisconnect from the phone, still

(10:28):
communicate with your coworkersand say, hey, look like this
weekend, I know I got a list ofthings, but let me get ahead of
this now because I'm gonna takethese 48 hours and really
recharge so that I canunderstand who the hell I am,
what I'm trying to do, where myflaws are and just ride it out.
Murder board it out if you gotto, because we shouldn't live

(10:48):
throughout pain. We shouldn'tlive with it. We gotta get rid
of it so then we can experiencesome happy moments, man.
Otherwise, you end up lookinglike the person that makes
everything look daunting. Yeah.
Everything's daunting. We'vebeen around those guys. Right?
Like, every how's it going? Ah,man.
You know? Like, it's likeEverything's massive. I care.
Everything is like a big deal.It's like, bro, like, you have

(11:09):
area of your loves.
What are you talking about? LikeYeah. What are you talking
about? You drive you got a nicecar. You got a You forgot, well,
I still got problems, mate.
It's like, no. You got solutionsto those problems. You just
refuse to acknowledge it becauseyou want someone to feel sorry
for you. What you need to do isbe in more gratitude and
remember your lineage of how yougot here. You adapted through

(11:30):
all this trouble.
Kick some more butt, man. Yeah.Maybe it's just your call to
greatness that you're justrefusing to answer. So I you
know, it's a lot of that goesinto that.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
So you got your your first title is 2011. Yes. You
went through a journey where youlearned this firsthand. Right?
Like, you talked about shootingbaskets as a kid Yep.
So that others could see. Youtalked about your transition
through high school sports andjust lighting up over playing
basketball. Knowing and feelingand sensing despite your ability
to dunk maybe a little tooshort. Going into d one sports

(12:04):
in Colorado and having that thatexcruciating moment of realizing
you're not gonna make that, butwanting to be great. How did you
come to this worldview whereit's what you're talking about
now, which is so counter to notonly social media, but just the
sensibility of any pro athlete.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Right? I mean, we're we're dealing with a lot of
mental health right now becauseit's not being addressed head
on.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah. COVID made it worse. I truly believe that.
Stopped talking to each other.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah. We really stopped talking to each other.
We show lack of empathy to bothsides. Yeah. Because we we just
lack compassion, and that'sunfortunate.
And people are still, like, notspeaking to family members or
friends because of it. Mhmm. Alot of people can't even raise
their hand and say I was wrongeither. Yeah. And I think that
that's, like, a sense of feelinglike a a mature functional adult

(12:54):
is to be like, you know what?
My intention was not to hurtyour feelings, but I know I did.
Yeah. And that sucks to see thatwe haven't connected over the
last 3 years because of what Idid to you. Man. I'm sorry.
Man, if I could do it all overagain, I would never have done
that. But I hope that you cansee that this is coming from
sincere and I'm not expectingyou to accept it. Yeah. But I
hope that you can believe that Iwant the best for you. Yeah.

(13:19):
But those are words that like Ihad to learn to and it's just,
like I said, just through, Imean, hell, I had to hire a
therapist. Yeah. To understand,like, I don't have the tools to
be able to communicateeffectively. I mean, we have
sales coaches to learn how to gofrom marketing to creative
marketing, right? You need thosepeople that are experts that
have done the work.

(13:40):
And it's something like a musclethat has to be used all the time
for it to stick. Yeah. The worldis the world is already wicked.
I mean, why be wicked yourself?Yeah.
I know a lot of people feellike, well, I need to I need to
be I need to be hyper vigilantto deal with the world. Now I
will say, if you have that pieceof you in you, you don't have to
kill that person. Mhmm. Keepthat warrior still in you.

(14:04):
Defcon, what happens?
Yeah. Yeah. But you should notwalk through life hypervigilant.
Always at battle. Because you'reand I did that, walking around
with a scowl on your face everyday to let people know that I
mean business.
Dude, like, your 7 time missionOlympi, I think everybody with a
brain would know that you meanbusiness when you go to the gym,
when you had to interact withyour food and everything else.

(14:25):
And same with sales and whatnot.Like, if you're top of your
sales, like, you don't have to,like that's what we're doing.
Yeah. We're just, I don't know,we're experiencing something, I
would say, very differentbecause of the social media
aspect.
The false, bravado, I thinkYeah. Is very big because if we
if I puff my chest out bigenough, I can get more followers

(14:46):
than I can sell stuff to. Yeah.We sell it through fear and
manipulation. But for me, it'smore like I would wanna sell
everyone on themselves.
I'm selling you, you're you. Youneed to know you're 1 of 1,
number 1. That means you're anon duplicatable asset. That
should mean something to youbecause if anything else in this
world, there's a nonduplicatable asset that has a
high value. Right?

(15:06):
Yeah. So all of that, that'sawesome. You know what I'm
saying? Like, yeah. We'retalking about cars and stuff.
We're talking about 101. We knowthat that's worth something. Oh,
yeah. That's you. Yeah.
But you're going ahead and justscratching it all up and this
and that and not even believingthat you're worse. Yeah. That's
crazy to me. So But the society,they they they make you feel
because of the comparison. Igotta compare myself to you.

(15:27):
Yeah. You too. Man, just compareyourself to your performance
from yesterday. Ask yourselfwhat you learned. If you didn't
learn anything, ask yourselfwhy.
Well, it's because I wasscrewing around. Okay. Well,
does that do those habitsactually come to a conclusion
that you're gonna have atriumphant moment? No. Then,

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
If your lights were getting turned off, meaning your
life was going to be over, whatwould you want the story to
read? Yeah. And I think it's, weall have said this probably, but
then we forget. And I think thepeople that keep that in their
mind and have those check ins,they're the ones that hold

(16:07):
themselves highly accountable.And they experience those, those
great moments.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
In fact, you talk about when you think about that
highly accountable, one of thequotes that I love, especially
coming from a businessperspective is and you said this
early on, you know, you wantedto be great at basketball.
Ultimately, you said I will begreat. I will be pro

Speaker 1 (16:24):
at something. Yeah. And you

Speaker 2 (16:26):
said that. You put that out there. But you also
said if you wanna be the best,if you wanna be great at
something, you've gotta own itall. Right? Everything.
What what is that mindset like,Owning it all.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
It's like having that growth mindset of knowing that I
I don't have it all figured out.Yeah. I think I do based on
maybe things that I've seen orread about, but I personally
don't have it all figured outbecause I haven't actually done
it yet. Yeah. Only

Speaker 2 (16:52):
get a hold isn't all about ego then.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
You have to conquer it. Yeah. You have to conquer
the shame, the the guilt, theregret that that goes into goal
setting, man. Like some peopleshame themselves into doing
something. You know, some peoplehave negative self talk to get
themselves to move.
I understand that they may thatmay happen. But if you keep that
going for a long period of timeand you numb everything, so you

(17:18):
numb the bad and the good. Youdon't get to experience a great
career. You're the one that ispissed off at the end of your
career. Wow.
And we've known people likethat. We've seen people like
that. They're a former CEO. Oh,I've had it 3 exits, this and
that and the other. He stillwants to kill himself.
Yeah. Because he doesn't feelfulfilled. Well, you don't feel
fulfilled because you didn'tenjoy it. Like, you you say you

(17:41):
had passion, but you don'tsmile. Yeah.
So why would I, as a 7 timeMichelinpio, be able to make a
younger Phil Heath wanna competeif I'm like, yeah. You know,
this sucks, but I did it anyway.It's like, no. Did I enjoy every
every step on that cardio? No.
Did I enjoy, you know, theheaviest leg days? No,

(18:03):
initially. Then I learned tolove it. I learned to know that,
wow, I was chosen to dosomething very unique. I'll be
damned if I don't give you thiseverything I have.
Because at some point in time,this bodybuilding thing is gonna
end. But I don't deserve, oofman, I don't deserve the next

(18:25):
chapter if I don't showgratitude for this current
season. Wow. Yeah. Powerful.
Like I don't, like the greatestversion, right? We're talking
about at the end of the life,Man Upstairs shows you who you
could be. Yeah. The reason whyyou didn't hit that mark is
because you didn't give yourselfpermission to do it in the 1st
place. And you thought that,like, when I said I wanted to

(18:48):
win 10 mister Olympias, thereason why I said that is
because it wouldn't it's neverbeen done.
Yeah. I got 7. Yeah. And case inpoint, there was a bodybuilder.
I won't mention his name, but Iremember him winning 1.
And he said, man, I would be I'mso glad I just won this one.
Yeah. If you know, he's justlike probably just speaking
through his emotions and maybethere's some real to this. He's

(19:10):
like, man, if I don't ever winagain, at least I got this one.
Well, guess what?
I heard that, and I said, allyou will win is 1.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Because I'm gonna make sure of it. Yeah. So you
gotta mind your words. Yeah.Yeah.
The universe hears it.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
So when you talk about that gratitude, that last
title that the movie is so greatabout Mhmm. I didn't know the
story how it ended until I sawthe show. And I thought you were
gonna get that 8th title. I'mlike, this is just one of those
great American stories ofvictory at the very end. Mhmm.
But I actually felt like at theend, you won because you did
that last title for you. Thatwas sort of your finding joy in

(19:45):
it. And Yeah. It was a differentmindset than the than the first
7.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
It it really was. And, you know, training for the
7th, you realize what's on theline. And to me, it was being
tied with Arnold Schwarzenegger.I mean, that's like, wow. Right?
Yeah. Term injury. Exactly. Sowhen you're thinking, okay. No
matter what, I'm tied with him.

(20:10):
Now you go for 8. You don't getin 2018. You now have your
second hernia surgery. You sitout all of 2019. You decide
through a global freakingpandemic that you're just gonna
make a comeback.
And I thought the average personwould have retired after they
won their 7th knowing that aftermy 7th, I had to go to surgery

(20:30):
that following week. Yeah. Theaverage person probably would
have said, man, just retire. Youknow, quit while you're ahead.
Yeah.
And I had some really goodfriends in very high places that
said, oh, yeah. You should justretire and go do movies and this
and that. Yeah. But I know youfeel that you're gonna wanna go
for 8. And I go, yes.
Because I don't wanna live withthe regret of not trying.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah. You gotta know where it ends.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
I gotta know where it ends. Yeah. And through, you
know, the pandemic, I was like,well, this definitely wasn't
advantageous for me to make acomeback. But what if You were
at a gym and it was dark. Pitchblack, man.
IPhone like. Shout out to thefreaking stupid sheriffs over in
Jefferson County in Colorado formaking it so where I couldn't go

(21:12):
train. Right? But that wassomething that I thought was so
relatable to to everyone, notjust in Colorado, but around the
world. We all suffered.
Through that. We all wentthrough it. It was awful. And I
didn't want yeah. It was veryawful.
To have to train with an iPhonelight at, you know, 11 o'clock
at night and park your car 2blocks down so they didn't
realize it was you. Yeah. Butthen I thought that this is what

(21:32):
professionals do. Yeah. This iswhat someone with the focus of
being the best in the worldwould do.
And when when you say thatyou're a beacon of hope, you can
I I would ask I would have toask myself this, Like, do you
really think you're a champion?A champion would be resilient
through this stuff. And in fact,I smiled. I was like because

(21:53):
people were like, oh, he's gonnamake a comeback. He hasn't been
on stage in 26, 27 months.
You know, things change andthis, that. I was like, I'm
still Phil Heath. Yeah. I'mstill me and no matter what
happens, I'm still me. You maynot see where my victory is in
my head and of course, I'm not.
In my opinion, I'm probably themost competitive guy that has
graced that stage because I justwanted it so bad. But if you say

(22:18):
you're the most competitiveperson, why does it always have
to be when you feel good?Michael Jordan did the flu game.
He could have quit. You know?
Brett Favre could've quit whenhis dad died and still threw
those touchdowns. Yeah. Youknow, like, people go through
stuff. So you can't callyourself a real champion if
you're not willing to enduresome hardship and still show up

(22:39):
and then show out. That isstrong.
You said there's this transitionhere, talent plus hard work
equals it's over.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
And you said with a competitive spirit, the talent
and the hard work equal thatsuccess, owning it all.
Gratitude and faith Yes. Are thethings that make the difference.
Being grateful for it, andgratitude as you describe it,
that's part of what makes youappreciate the moment. And I
know we touched a little bitabout that, but the gratitude

(23:10):
and faith part.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think a lot of people, including myself,
because of you just wanting towin, you're just focusing on
just to be first. Yeah. Andthen, you know, I talk about a
hollow victory because you'realready thinking about the next
day. It's like the movie,there's a movie called Pacific
Rim. Oh, yeah.
So you know with the kaijus andall this stuff and they try to

(23:33):
kill these aliens and stuff.Well, what happens every time
they get a call, they got tokill them. They kill them and
then they say reset the clock.Yeah. So that means It's always
pending.
Don't rest on your last victorybecause you got another battle
ahead. That is very daunting.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah. And exhausting.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
And very exhausting. But I still believe that you
should have a moment tocelebrate. Mhmm. I don't think I
celebrated maybe enough of,let's say, quality celebration.
It doesn't have to be a weeklong of, like Yeah.
Pulling maybe a JR Smith whereyou're still holding the NBA
title 2 weeks later with yourshirt off, you know, running
around town. No. I'm saying inthe moment, enjoy that moment.

(24:14):
Yeah. Like, really enjoy.
It would be like, yeah. If youwon the NBA championship, you
won the Stanley Cup, like, enjoyit to the fullest. And then
maybe 3 days later, you're like,well, time for off season. Gotta
get ready, but I enjoyed it. Ididn't do that for a lot of
those wins.
And because I was programmed tothink next, next, next, next,

(24:36):
next. And I and it was almostembedded into my brain that
that's how you have to be. Well,I can tell you, I probably could
have enjoyed a little bit morebecause I was the guy that would
win the Olympia and 2 weekslater go, let's say, on a on a
family vacation, I take my wifeout to something. Oh, yeah. I'm
gonna spend this money right andI'm gonna take my wife out and

(24:58):
do this stuff.
Let me tell you, I remembertaking her to this amazing
experience and I had toapologize because for 8 straight
days, I was just vegged out.This is me, Just numb.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
And it's just like, oh, crap. First of all, I just
wasted a 100 you know, a lot ofmoney.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
A lot of money.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
A lot of money.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
He about set the dollar amount, but that's okay.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
It was a

Speaker 2 (25:22):
lot of money.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Lot of money. And now I gotta redo it. Yeah. Because I
gotta give her an experienceYeah. Because she endured that
stuff with me.
Yeah. And I gotta let her knowthat she's valid. She's
validated. She's she'simportant. And, you know, you
learn lessons in life, with aprice.
Some are inexpensive. That one'sa very expensive lesson in my

(25:45):
opinion. Yeah. You know, so Ilearned right away. I was like,
gratitude, you gotta have it.
You gotta be able to say, allright, the show is over. Whether
you won or you lost, thank Godyou have enough money to go take
travel the world and goexperience something. But really
experience it.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Really Live in the moment.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Live in the moment. Really enjoy that cocktail or
enjoy that walk, enjoy thatcruise. Yeah. Enjoy putting on
the clothes that you normallywouldn't wear because you're now
in a different climate. Like,enjoy it all because life can
change, and we've all seen ithappen.
So Dude, what is it about humannature? I love what you're
saying here. Brene Brown talksabout this as about foreboding

(26:24):
joy. Like, you think about yourkids and you're grateful for
your kids and then

Speaker 2 (26:27):
you think, well, my gosh. They could go out on the
car and get in a car accident.Right? We take that away from
ourselves in the moment becausethere's something so vulnerable
about celebrating. Right?
If I celebrate my 6th win, it'sgonna take away the possibility
of the 7th. Yeah. What is itabout that? Why do we do that?

Speaker 1 (26:44):
We we make it seem like we lose our edge. Right?
Like, oh, don't celebrate toomuch. It's like, okay. So then
you don't, and you'll be theperson still talking about high
school to your friends 30 yearslater.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
We all know those people. We know those guys.
Right? Yeah. I don't have totalk about certain things
because I can say, like, whenhell, when we won state in high
school, the one thing I didn'tget to experience was the actual
joy of parting with my teammatesin the locker room because I had
to get 6 stitches right herebecause I got elbowed during the

(27:20):
Q4.
So they had to stitch me up ascoaches doing the speech and do
I I didn't experience that, butI still remember what it felt
like to get the ring. And Iremember having those moments
with my with my team, who Istill chat with on the phone to
this day on a group chat. And,you know, I don't have to
relive, like, you know, like,uncle Rico type of talk. You

(27:40):
know? You know how to do it likethat.
I can say been there, done that.Yeah. What's new, guys? Like
Yeah. What other wins can westack?
It doesn't mean that it didn'tmatter. It's just I I feel like,
again, we always circle around,did we really enjoy in the
moment? And I don't havechildren, but what I will say is
that god will it, I have a childor kids. I want them to know

(28:04):
that I was present. Yeah.
And I want them to know what itfelt like, the first ice cream
cone That's cool. The first rideon a bicycle, the first the
first the first the first. Youwere there for that. And I was
there, and I wanted them to win,like, okay. You you fell on the
bike.
You good? Yeah. Tell me what'sgoing on. You oh, you'd be

(28:25):
alright. I think I'm more primedfor that now because of the work
that I've had to do that I choseto do with my wife.
Yeah. And, you know, that's howwe will contribute to society,
in my opinion, is to try tobecome more, secure adults,
through therapy and tocontinuously work on self
development to understand thatlife is not easy, but let's not

(28:47):
make it hard.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
How'd you find a good therapist?

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah. Oh, man. That was grace of God on that one,
man. Because my wife, like, she,you know, she had a couple
girlfriends. 1 in particular wasseeing someone, like, more like
performance coaching and stuff.
And her and her husband were,just they just got engaged and,
you know, and they were tryingto figure out, like, okay,
they're both athletes. And whenyou have 2 high performing
people, they usually don't work.No. We see it like in Hollywood

(29:14):
and this and trash each other.Yeah like so you got to have
some tools.
Yeah. And really taking it likebecause you know I've told some
of my friends oh yeah my wifeand I are counselors like well
what did you do? I'm like dudeit isn't like that. Yeah. It's
like, I don't It's not a problemto fix.
It's development. It'spreventative. Yeah. It's knowing
that, like, if I have tools,then I know how to communicate

(29:36):
better. What will my life belike if I can communicate really
good?
Yeah. Not become some mindreader because I can't do that.
But what if I could communicatebetter with my wife? That means
I know how to communicate myfeelings to myself, to my wife,
to coworkers, to fans here.That's really neat.
Now I'm at peace with myself.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
What I love about that is at a moment in your
life, you said I will be a proat something. That pro became
bodybuilding. That wasbasketball for a period of time,
and now it's becoming in thisnext phase, connecting

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
And communicating with other people, giving back
to younger kids Yes. And helpinglight the world up, not only
through your wife who in theshow was your girlfriend. Right?
Yep. But elsewhere.
Thinking about kids, a questionfrom our audience when when we
said we were gonna interviewyou. Some kids look at you and
they're like, my gosh. He'sripped.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Right, Matt.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do you recommend kids try to look like you? Or if
you're a teenager in high schoolor in college, like, what's that
path look like?

Speaker 1 (30:36):
You know, I've been asked the question of, like,
would I have my kids or, like,you know and I'd say no because
of who their father is. Right?Okay. I don't want them to have
that type of pressure.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah. Because they have the genes, presumably.
Yeah. Presumably, but

Speaker 1 (30:49):
we don't know that. Right? So even if they did,
like, I think it would be evengreater as if they blaze their
own trail. Yeah. But if theywanted to follow in my
footsteps, that's what they'regonna do.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
And I was able to do it through a different
adaptation of, you know, havingparents that provide it, but all
those different whys in the roadare unique. Yeah. So you're
trying to do the same output asme, but you're not you don't
wanna go through. I'm You gotyour own path. That would mean
like you would have toexperience almost like the same
traumatic events to get youthere too.

(31:22):
I don't think that's smart. WhatI think is great is if you said,
yeah you know that or like evenkids nowadays they say, hey I
want to be mister Olympia. I sayokay We gotta go through the 7
layers of why. Mhmm. I need tounderstand why does this matter
to you so much because here itis.
There's been 18 champions in 60years. Yeah. So that's less than

(31:45):
the teams that have won theSuper Bowl. Right? I would yeah.
There's more than 18 teams thatwon the Super Bowl. Yeah. So
this is where it becomesextremely unique. So then you
have to understand the odds arenot in your favor. So then and
nowadays, we probably have tosay this to all these kids.
If there was no YouTube money,if there was no monetization on

(32:07):
social media Yeah. Why would whywould you why would you continue
to do the same things you doYeah. And why? And there has to

Speaker 2 (32:14):
be a little part of it. You said it's talent and
hard work. Talent is a littlebit of it. Jeans are

Speaker 1 (32:18):
a little bit of it. Right? Get to the point. Talent
is

Speaker 2 (32:21):
for sure. But you can also build to get there. So,
Mike, before we get in the lastquestion, we appreciate you
being here, Mike. You get thelast question. It's interesting
in professional sports, you weara jersey

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Mhmm. And at

Speaker 2 (32:30):
some point, you take that jersey off. Yes. In your
professional sport, it's yourbody.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
You talked about it. It's incredibly vulnerable. You
were naked in front of people,basically. You had I've never
worn a

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah. You know, I say afraid. I have

Speaker 2 (32:45):
never done that. And it's fascinating to me. You're
in incredible shape. I like Iwon't even start. Right?
But in this post phase, like,how do you transition? You
talked a little bit about yourworkouts today. Like, you're
gonna turn 80. Yes. Right?
What does that look like for abodybuilder who can't take off
that jersey?

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Like Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
That history will follow you. Right?

Speaker 1 (33:07):
I I think instead of saying I gotta take this off,
just say it always will beembedded into my system. Like,
it was a chapter. It was aseason. Yeah. I enjoyed it, and
I'm willing to experience maybesome unknowns, which is life
after and create a new goal.
You should create a new goal forme, and this is reset. It's been

(33:29):
4 years since I competed. What'swild is that I could still do
it. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
I still have You could turn them on at any
moment.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I could turn it on in another year and say I'm doing
the Olympia again. But then it'slike, but why would I do that?
Yeah. And then what and if I do,that probably means that I'm oh,
man. It's because I'm afraid ofactually experiencing the next
chapter.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
You're avoiding the next chapter.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
A lot of people stay in that same relationship. They
stay in that same dead end jobbecause they're afraid. And you
got to just say, you know what,enough is enough. And I want to
have the spice of life, which isvariety of some sort. So you got
to be willing to try somethingnew to experience something

(34:11):
better.
And for me right now, I get toinstead of compete at the
Olympia, I get to commentate atthe Olympia. I get to edify
those athletes by while stillproviding constructive
criticism. And those athletesknow that it's coming from a 7
time champion who has no horsein this race that just wants to
pour into them. And then I alsothis year, I'll just say this

(34:33):
because I'm excited about it, isthat I get to be inducted into
the International Sports Hall ofFame this week. Congratulations.
Yeah. So it's it's a huge honor.I'm very thankful for it. You
know, people like Marcus Allenhas been a part of it. And I was
saying Pierre from UFC.
My graduating class will be,Brian Shaw, world's strongest

(34:54):
man, Misha Tate, UFC champion,JJ Perry, who was a great
martial artist, did a lot ofstunt choreography, Jim
Plunkett, and a few others. ButI didn't get there by just being
a basketball player. Right?

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
I got there by saying, you know, basketball
didn't work out, stepped intobodybuilding, and then trying to
expand on that doing the publicspeaking that I currently do.
Yeah. But it requires a lot ofself awareness, a lot of self
development, and I reallyfreaking love it. Yeah. Because
I know that there's anotherperson out there that is so
freaking stuck that has beenbeat down by other people and

(35:28):
continues to listen to thatstupid noise from others and in
their own head.
But if I can help them tunetheir frequency, they get to
experience something evenbetter. And that's living a more
abundant life. And I and I say,like, I'm still learning too.
And I'm just passionate aboutit, man. I just think it's it's,

(35:50):
I feel like there needs to bemore men that want to help
people than to just stay hurt intheir own feelings and just stay
rigid and and do it out of, oh,well, I want to be somebody.
No, guys, you're alreadysomebody. That's what can you do
for somebody else. If you canfocus on doing something for
yourself and helping somebodyelse, don't worry about money.

(36:11):
That's going to happen. That'sjust a law of attraction in my
opinion.
You don't have to shame people,guilt people, manipulate people
to pay you. If you provide valueand you show up with value,
they're gonna be like, I'mbuying that car from that person
because they're trying to tellme something that I just didn't
know and they're passionateabout it. Yep. So that's that's
really how I approach this phasecurrently in my life.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I'll tell you. Amazing to to hear and to
understand your journey. And inparticular, to hear how right
now you are suppressing the fearfor that next stage, you're
recognizing our tendency ashuman beings to numb, to resist
going into that next phase. It'san inspiration. My last question
Yeah.
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
You know, Phil Heath, this is very fascinating, but
I've noticed a pattern over theyears with our guest speakers
that we brought in. All very,very wildly successful people,
all walks of life. And that's a,mindset of gratitude. Yeah. And
I'm gonna ask you to take us inclosing to a really tough time
in your life professionally.
And you've won 7 times, misterOlympia. You're on stage going

(37:13):
for 8. Yeah. And you had toshift your mindset because you
have all eyes on you. Mhmm.
You're a mentor. Yep. I mean,everybody's looking at you. Talk
to us about that mindset shiftthere. Talk to us about how
maybe grace, humility, and thengratitude played a role at that
hard time.
We're talking about

Speaker 1 (37:31):
2018? Oh. So if I'm standing on that stage, and at
that point in time, I kindarealized the writing's on the
wall that they're that you'regonna lose. But you need to hear
it and you don't wanna hear it'slike you're getting you're
facing a firing squad.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
And you're like, just kind of get it over with your
tense. Yeah. And when theyannounced his name, I was just
like, damn it. I I had to takeit all in. Initially, you think
that people are laughing at youand this and that.
Now I realize that that ain'tit. They're just cheering for
the new person. They're happyfor that new person. They you

(38:11):
also are a part of history. Thechamp has been dethroned.
That normally does not happen.Yeah. But take it all in. Yeah.
What did you hear?
And it was loud. I was like,damn. Like, man, y'all cheered
for me like that before, butman, like and then I had to say,
you know what? Just be still,dude. Just how do you feel?

(38:32):
Like and it was likemilliseconds. Right? You're
you're going through this. And Iwas like, just breathe, dude.
It's his time.
You're gonna have tocongratulate him. He did his
job. You did your job. Theychose him. And I think that's
the hardest part withbodybuilding is that you can
still do your job and you notget the nod.
And you're in unlike any othersport, that's why I think

(38:55):
bodybuilding is probably thehardest that is unrecognized as
that because you have to dealwith the emotional intelligence.
You're naked pretty much andyou're being judged on how you
actually look with no filter onInstagram. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
So no one wants to be judgedlike that. So you're
automatically gonna feel thatyou're not good enough. You you

(39:16):
you're crap. You're horrible.And then you have to learn to
breathe and say, you know what?
It was his turn and maybetomorrow wouldn't be his turn,
but for right now it's his turn.So you hug him and said it
looked great.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
And, I got on that one knee that I would get on and
I would pray to God saying,thank you when I won and I said,
and I'll be damned if I don'tget on one knee and point up and
say, thank you for getting methrough this because I did my
best with what I had. Although Ididn't like that moment, I

(39:49):
wanted to win 8. I had to be aman and a professional and say,
hey, are you really a fakeChristian at this moment? Nah,
dude. Like, you're gonnaacknowledge that you're still
the greatest, if not thegreatest of all time with 7 Mr.
Olympias, and you're just ahuman being that lost. Mhmm.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Yeah. Absolutely. And the reason I think it's
appropriate to close with thatis it shows the incredible art
that you have and the incrediblehuman being that you are. Phil
Heath, thank you so much. Thankyou.
We appreciate you. Thanks forbeing on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Appreciate you, man. Thank you. A A big thanks to
Phil Heath and Mike Van Rhijnfor contributing to this week's
episode. Until next week, howare you driving vision today?