November 25, 2024 • 28 mins
Tim Terrentine joins me and Ariah Daniels to discuss the role of Courage in leadership at the Zeigler Auto Group.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Terrentine (00:05):
It's a beautiful thing that happens when human
when we take that small step ofjust connecting instead of
shrinking.
Sam D'Arc (00:16):
Welcome everyone to the driving vision podcast
brought to you by the ZiglerAuto Group. I'm your host, Sam
Dark. Be sure to subscribe tothe podcast. Like it if you do,
and leave a comment. Hey,everybody.
Welcome to the special editionof the Driving Vision future of
Zach Today podcast. And backwith us again today, obviously,
Araya Daniels, welcome.
Ariah Daniels (00:37):
Thank you, Sam. Glad to be here.
Sam D'Arc (00:38):
VP Talent Development. But, Tim Tarantine
with Translators ConsultingGroup.
Tim Terrentine (00:44):
That's right. Right? Yes. I got it. You got
it?
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (00:48):
So, Tim, it was awesome because I wasn't
expecting to see you today. Iwas up here, recording some
stuff, had an Internet outage,which we've got to get to the
bottom of. And I came and wasable to sit in on your
classroom. It was an absolutedelight because I don't often
get to sit in on the classes.
Tim Terrentine (01:04):
It was fun to hear me.
Sam D'Arc (01:05):
It would be what a cool conversation. And let's
just get into it. Courage.
Tim Terrentine (01:09):
Courage was the call of the game.
Sam D'Arc (01:11):
Araya, what does courage mean to you after today?
Ariah Daniels (01:14):
You know, courage really is synonymous with me
with confidence. And so when Ithink about being courageous,
being confident, so I'm reallyexcited to dive into some of the
really big points that we hit onfor this class
Sam D'Arc (01:26):
today. Yeah. How would you define courage? How
did you define courage today,Tim?
Tim Terrentine (01:30):
I well, we shared lots of definitions, but
at the end of the day, it'sreally about taking the next
small step. Yeah. Right? That inin life when we need courage,
it's all about what's the nextsmall thing I can do. Right?
Because I think it's just becomesuch a big target for so many of
(01:50):
us that if we can't solve thescariest thing, if we can't
climb the biggest mountain,we're somehow a failure. But the
truth is sometimes courage isjust getting up in the morning.
Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's nothitting send.
Sam D'Arc (02:04):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (02:05):
Right? And so we can we we have so many ways we
can be courageous, without somebig, you know, celebration. So
what we try to do is makecourage real for people at work
and and explore the ways we canshow up courageously.
Sam D'Arc (02:20):
You know, it's interesting because I've thought
a lot recently. I don't know whythis came up in my world past
several weeks, months, whatever,but there are moments in our
lives, personal and business,where you feel that tension in
your chest, you start to feelnervous, you start to sweat a
little bit
Tim Terrentine (02:35):
Oh, yeah.
Sam D'Arc (02:36):
And you're like, this is a decisive moment. Like, if I
have courage
Tim Terrentine (02:40):
and I say what I know I should say, I act how I
know I should act, in
Sam D'Arc (02:44):
that moment, it's gonna be a little bit of a
challenge and uncomfortable. Butif I don't, that's gonna stick
with me
Ariah Daniels (02:50):
Yeah. Longer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fair?
Talk about leaving the thecomfort zone. That was a huge
topic of conversation today isthat leaving that comfort zone
takes courage.
Sam D'Arc (03:00):
It takes courage. Yeah.
Ariah Daniels (03:02):
And what you're to your point, like, holding on
to that feeling, that tension inyour chest, you can choose to
whether you're gonna get throughthat moment Yeah. And work
through that comfort zone or theother side of that Yeah. Or
continue to deal with whatever'sgoing on there.
Sam D'Arc (03:16):
Yeah. Like So you've talked to a lot of our teams as
you've gone around the group. Soyou've been here in Kalamazoo,
Granville, I think, and and theChicagoland. What are some
examples of moments where teammembers have needed to exhibit
courage to do somethingdifficult where it's ultimately
turned out well.
Tim Terrentine (03:33):
Yeah. I think what I heard a lot so far today
was feedback. Right? When weneed to speak up, not to put
anybody down or blow anythingup, but to just help us get back
in the groove. Yeah.
Sometimes, you know, the war ofattrition. You're working hard,
you're working fast, clients areall over the place for
(03:53):
everybody. We have to workacross teams, sometimes we
drift. So just being able tolift my voice in a meeting to
help us redirect seems like asmall act, but think of how many
meetings we sit in where themajority of the room is silent
and everybody knows somebodyshould say something. Right?
So it's not necessarily some bigoverwhelming thing.
Sam D'Arc (04:16):
So but you can't just be reckless with courage.
Courage also requires does itrequire integrity or a little
bit of heart? Like, you can'tjust throw a ball and out the
meeting. It's not gonna help
Ariah Daniels (04:27):
it. We did talk about that today. We had someone
say, hey. You know, have youever been in a meeting where one
person will say what everyone'sthinking?
Sam D'Arc (04:34):
Right.
Ariah Daniels (04:34):
And then you do it, and then everyone else gets
the courage to speak up and talkabout the same topic. So I think
there are calculated risks thatyou choose to take in those
moments, and it's gotta be atthe right time. And we talked
about that today too. Like,being able to to have the
courage in those moments whereyou feel like, okay. It's time.
Tim Terrentine (04:53):
What and part of that is how you prepare for
courage.
Sam D'Arc (04:55):
How do you how do you prepare?
Tim Terrentine (04:56):
Well, it's like a muscle. K. Right? You have to
work out so that you have thestrength you need when you need
it. And that's that's a biglike, for instance, one of the
points of working out is to playout the scenarios.
So in that meeting where I haveto speak up, I can think to
myself, what's the worst thatcould happen if I raise my hand?
And then the other considerationis what happens if I don't? What
(05:19):
happens to my team? What happensto me? What happens to our
efficiency?
What happens to ourrelationships if I do nothing?
Right? Another one that wetalked about was taking care of
my body. So we all havestressful moments and things we
know we have to face. There'smeetings on the calendar.
There's end of the month thingsthat come every month.
Sam D'Arc (05:42):
So what does taking care of your body have to do
with courage? Well, how doesequal fitness have to do with
courage?
Tim Terrentine (05:48):
Well, it's not just fitness. Okay. It's sleep.
It's rest. It's mindfulness.
It's take I get it. You knowwhat? They don't sleep, but
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (05:57):
It's a problem
Tim Terrentine (05:57):
for me. Rest, man. Because courage requires us
to do something we're nottypically doing. And in some
cases, I'm actually doing theopposite of what I'm afraid of.
I can't do that on an emptytank.
Sam D'Arc (06:13):
Now that is interesting because when we're
sleep deficient, there's thatwhole fight or flight. Right?
Yes. Those moments of courageoften to to a lot of us, either
trigger a flight or theytrigger, an aggressive fight.
That's right.
Courage isn't going into ameeting room and picking a
fight. Maybe that's what I meantearlier. Like, you have to come
into that meeting with the rightheart
Ariah Daniels (06:33):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (06:33):
To speak with courage. Because if you come in
with the wrong heart and youspeak with courage, you could
say something truly offensivethat could hurt your teeth.
Boom. And then ultimately coulddamage what you're trying. You
talk about that preparation.
How can the wrong preparationlead to damage in the teeth?
Tim Terrentine (06:50):
Well, courage is tied to values.
Sam D'Arc (06:52):
Okay.
Tim Terrentine (06:53):
And that's why I think particularly in the
Ziegler context, you all reallydo push your values as a company
when you talk about it. Becausepeople can be courageous and
tear people down. We we stillhave an endgame. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (07:12):
That's not.
Tim Terrentine (07:13):
And so what's driving your courage?
Sam D'Arc (07:14):
So where's the line? Okay. It's Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:16):
Right. What's driving your courage? What do
you value?
Sam D'Arc (07:18):
What what are my motivation?
Tim Terrentine (07:19):
What is your culture?
Sam D'Arc (07:20):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:21):
Right? So if the culture for instance, some
companies I work with, theinnovation is a big deal. We
want all the ideas. We wanna becreative, but people can't speak
up.
Sam D'Arc (07:30):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:31):
People can't bring new ideas without fear of
being torn down. Uh-huh. Right?And so we have to create
environments where courage helpsour mission.
Sam D'Arc (07:41):
So I'm gonna put Araya on spot. So Araya did an
interesting process over thepast many months. You went
around to many of the stores andyou did culture surveys. Right?
Culture surveys are a goodexample of a time and a place
where you wanna say everything
Ariah Daniels (07:53):
Yep.
Sam D'Arc (07:53):
But you have to come with courage. You have to be
courageous. So you have to know,you know, sharing everything
doesn't necessarily always help.Hi. What's your perspective on
these culture surveys?
And and to you as a leader,what's the most helpful feedback
you get in those that builds theteam, builds the culture, not
terror?
Ariah Daniels (08:13):
Yeah. Sure. So, you know, when we're speaking
specifically about our culturesurveys and that process that we
do Yeah. We're inviting peopleto come in and bring us those
ideas. Like so they're comingin, and we're expecting them to
give us information.
Right? Like, we want that. Andso I think creating a safe space
(08:33):
to allow them to do that givesthem the
Sam D'Arc (08:36):
courage to create a space Sure.
Ariah Daniels (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (08:41):
Is all of it helpful? And then how do you as a leader
redirect to help create
Ariah Daniels (08:46):
Oh, that's a really that's a really good
question. So I am a big believerthat everyone's feelings are
valid regardless. Right? So ifsomeone feels something or if
they've got an opinion aboutsomething, whatever in their
experiences that they've hadinside the workforce, they're
valid. So we help really dissectwhat they're trying to say and
say, hey.
(09:06):
Is there a solution to this? Andif it's something where they're
just trying to nitpick and orcreate drama, then it's then
it's easy to kind of put
Tim Terrentine (09:14):
a kibosh to some of those things. But,
ultimately, I always try toremind myself is that someone's
got
Ariah Daniels (09:18):
an opinion about something because they have
struggled with something orthey've gone through an
experience at work that allowsthem to have that feeling and be
valid. So, it's an interestingdynamic when we sit through and
create what are the actions nowthat we're gonna do to fix those
pieces of culture. Yeah. Butstill giving everyone the amount
of courage and safe space tospeak on regardless. Like,
(09:41):
that's the reason why we dothat.
Sam D'Arc (09:42):
Does well placed courage create drama, Tim?
Tim Terrentine (09:45):
Well, it can. You're dealing with humans.
They're they're very complex andunpredictable. Alright. You're
laughing like that's I know.
It I mean, I'm serious becauseyou can some people and this is
what is the beauty and theburden of humanity. Is that we
come in all flavors
Ariah Daniels (10:02):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (10:02):
And all temperatures at any given time.
It's a courageous act to ask forfeedback
Ariah Daniels (10:08):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (10:09):
As a company.
Ariah Daniels (10:10):
And it can be delivered differently is what
we're saying.
Sam D'Arc (10:12):
I applaud you, by the way. It took courage because you
and Mike basically said, hey.You know what? We've always had
this process. We've always kindaset up the survey.
You dared to walk into storesthat hadn't been asked that
question for a long time andthen and then take the answer.
Tim Terrentine (10:27):
Oh, yeah.
Sam D'Arc (10:28):
And it it also takes courage to hear it Mhmm.
Unvarnished. Yes. And it alsotakes courage to sort through it
and kinda figure out what whatis, you know it's all
actionable, but it's not allnecessarily equally actionable.
Right?
Yeah. Sure. Part of it isdevelopment and and and helping,
and helping each other. Sothat's a what's the opposite of
courage?
Tim Terrentine (10:48):
That's a great question. Well, most people when
I asked the class, they're like,what's the opposite? And I heard
legally asked. I did. I said,what's the opposite?
And they said laziness. Theysaid cowardice. They said fear.
Sam D'Arc (10:59):
I would say fear.
Tim Terrentine (11:00):
Yeah? Mhmm. It's actually worse than that.
Passive aggressive. It'sindifference.
Oh. The opposite of courage andworse than cowardice
Sam D'Arc (11:10):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (11:11):
Is when we don't care. When we stop trying.
Sam D'Arc (11:15):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (11:16):
Right? And and I told the class, and I'll say it
here, I have to admit, I've letmyself get there on things that
are important to me. Right?Missions that are important to
me. I just I'm overwhelmed.
I'm burdened. I'm upset. I'mtired. I'm sick and tired of
being sick and tired, and I justsay forget it. And I make
something that is reallyimportant not mean anything to
(11:39):
me.
Indifference, it don't make adifference to me. Right? And
that's the opposite of courage.
Sam D'Arc (11:44):
I love that, by the way, because we see that. You
know what? You can attempt tohave courage over and over and
over again, and if you're notmet by a reaction, that can
sometimes lead to indifference.Because you don't think
Tim Terrentine (11:56):
to
Sam D'Arc (11:56):
make a difference. Right, Pat? So if I'm in a place
of emotional indifference to andwe're getting deep there. Deep.
Oh, there's been 4 years.
Come in
Tim Terrentine (12:05):
to Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (12:06):
Yeah. Become indifferent, and I know I need
to exhibit courage as a leader,how do I get myself back from
indifference?
Tim Terrentine (12:13):
That's a concern.
Ariah Daniels (12:14):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (12:14):
One of the points I made today was connect,
don't constrict. When I wannagive in and go into my cave of I
don't care, that's not the timeto constrict, to get smaller.
That's the time to reach out andconnect. That's the time to make
connections, to reach out toadministrators, to connect.
Don't constrict.
Right? Reach out. Connect.Carries in. There you go.
(12:37):
That's it. And so as as leaders,it's a lonely job. And we're so
used to having to try to havethe answers that a lot of times,
we just go into a cave.
Sam D'Arc (12:48):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (12:48):
And the truth is, we all need somebody. And
actually, courage is contagious.So if I go to people who are
courageous in the moment, I'mready to shut down. I can borrow
from yours. I can borrow fromMariah's, and I can get my
groove back just throughconnecting.
It's a beautiful thing thathappens with humans when we take
that small step of justconnecting instead of shrinking.
Sam D'Arc (13:11):
I love that. Araya, you I so I'm gonna have her
cheer for a minute to bring upsomething that tell us about the
group you meet.
Ariah Daniels (13:17):
For which one? For women.
Sam D'Arc (13:18):
For women. For women. For women. For women.
Ariah Daniels (13:20):
Yeah. Okay. So we just actually, over the last 6
months, started a new leadershipgroup inside Ziegler Auto Group
called Women Leaders of the ZAG.And this was something that I
had had on my heart for a whileto create a space for the
females of the organization tocome together and learn from
each other. Conversations arejust a little bit different and
be able to connect that way.
Sam D'Arc (13:41):
When Tim says connect, don't constrict Yeah. I
wonder if sometimes, you know,you you've made us aware of some
of the differences andchallenges. Are there situations
where women in our automotiveindustry might constrict, might
kind of give up their voice,maybe become indifferent because
they're not heard in the sameway? Yeah. Do you see that?
Ariah Daniels (14:02):
How would this No. But not even you know, I
don't even wanna put, you know,a label on women. I think it's
anyone and everyone. Right?Like, I think anyone in the
organization, and we talkedabout a couple of examples today
where people might see see anidea to fix a process and make
it a little bit morestreamlined.
Yeah. But because it's alwaysthe way that it's been
Sam D'Arc (14:19):
Right. Yep.
Ariah Daniels (14:20):
People are afraid or don't have the courage to
speak up to say, hey. This couldbe different. Yeah. And so I
think we see that all the timeto to build that courage up to
to jump in and say, hey. I'vegot something different.
Let's do it this way. Let's tryit out. And that's a risk.
Sam D'Arc (14:36):
So the members of your group, if they feel that
need to constrict, what wouldyou tell them?
Ariah Daniels (14:41):
So connect. So I
Sam D'Arc (14:42):
said, yeah. Take advantage.
Ariah Daniels (14:43):
You know? And I think constricting, it
Sam D'Arc (14:44):
comes from a moment of fear. Right? Yeah. And a and
a and a and a moment of deface.Right?
Tim Terrentine (14:48):
Well, it's protection.
Sam D'Arc (14:49):
Yeah. Protection. Protective.
Ariah Daniels (14:51):
What would you tell your wife? Well, I think in
just connecting exactly what Timis saying, I think when you get
to the point of feelingindifferent about things,
instead of, like, cowering backand saying, oh, I can't change
this or
Tim Terrentine (15:02):
I can't do this, I would encourage people to
start connecting with othersaround you to say, hey. Like,
what does what does this looklike? How do you feel about
this? How can I how can
Ariah Daniels (15:10):
I feed off some of the energy that you can give
me to go give some courage tomake a change somewhere? That's
right. Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (15:16):
We call it small as all.
Sam D'Arc (15:18):
Wait. What does that mean? What does small as all
mean?
Tim Terrentine (15:21):
Man, I need to be courageous. I just need to
think of what I can do on themicro level to be courageous.
Right? Yeah. Instead of sendingthat team's message Yeah.
I might get up and walks to talkto the person so I get some
understanding. Right? Like,sometimes it's just a small ad
(15:42):
and what we do in the smallscale sets the stage for the
whole thing. So if we can getpeople doing small courageous
acts, we're not acting anymore.It's a part of our culture,
isn't we all?
We just are courageous as a teambecause we do it in the small.
Ariah Daniels (15:59):
Which related it to exercise today and calling
progressive overload. So, youknow, if someone's got a goal
that they wanna lose a £100,right, that's a pretty big goal.
And so what do you do? You startsmall. You start with those
small things.
It's the same exact thing inconcept to courage. Like, when
you are working at those smallpieces of courage to help get to
(16:19):
the bigger bigger courage isthat's that's the concept.
Tim Terrentine (16:23):
Small is all. And it's amazing in the class.
When I ask people to list smallacts of courage that they've
done in the workplace, somehowwe had a room full of responses.
So it's not that we don't knowhow to do courage. What we gotta
do and what I hope this classhas done and is doing is helping
(16:46):
people access it moreconsistently.
Yeah. Because we all have hadcourageous moments where we did
step up, and we know how thatfeels.
Sam D'Arc (16:54):
So can I give you some concrete examples? So I was
at the room. Thank you forallowing me to be there for a
little bit, and I had the stickynote. We all wrote something
down.
Tim Terrentine (17:01):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (17:01):
What's an example of courage? I wrote down, and I
think Orion and I actually had asimilar one. Right? It's like
change. Right?
So when something's just beendone the same way forever, like,
it's tough to change sometimes.It's risk. They gotta get
everybody on board with thevision, whatever. At my table
was a an assistant, servicewriter at the board, and he
(17:24):
said, hey. My moment of courageneeds to be, he hadn't done that
yet, finding ways to connectwith customers to speak up and
speak out on behalf ofcustomers.
And I sat thought about that.I'm like, that's cool.
Tim Terrentine (17:36):
Yeah. It is.
Sam D'Arc (17:37):
Because a, that's to us might seem easy. Yeah. To
him, it's terrifying becausehe's newer. Right. Everybody at
the team kinda gathered aroundhim and said it's newer.
I love that you had everybodysay a thing because then after
they said that thing, everybodykinda gathered around and gave
him support.
Ariah Daniels (17:53):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (17:54):
And I don't know if he went back and did it. I mean,
we'll know after today, I guess.But that one little thing
delivers on our mission state,the ultimate automobile
experience. Alright. Do you seeanything at your table?
Ariah Daniels (18:05):
Yeah. Oh, gosh. There was there was some, some
funny ones, but a lot of theones that we talked about had
something to do with the idea ofchange where, like, someone had
seen a process look some way,and they felt like they were
having a hard time finding thecourage to speak up to challenge
that. Yeah. So little thingslike that, you know, just in
(18:25):
processes, I think.
Sam D'Arc (18:26):
Sometimes courage is saying it and then getting shot
down and still continuing tohave courage. Right? Because
you're not courage is not alwaysgonna be met successfully. Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (18:38):
Oh, no. Is it? No. No. No.
Not every chance is gonna workout the way you imagine. No. And
that's and and that's importantand there's real feelings around
it, but that ain't the point.Yeah. The point is were you
courageous?
Sam D'Arc (18:51):
Yeah. Alright. So if I'm listening to this podcast
Yes. And I'm hearing, like,courage, I get it. Taking the
risk, I get it.
Doing something that I know Ishould do or could do or need to
do, taking that small step. Whatadvice would you give to people
listening across the Zuglow AutoGroup? Do you have, like, some
sort of a courage assessment?Like, what what's the thing that
(19:12):
I could rally myself to do toget myself up and excited about
it? And then, here's thechallenge.
We wanna hear. So email us atthe podcast and tell us what
you've done that took courageand what was the ripple in the
pond that it created. So give ussome steps.
Ariah Daniels (19:27):
You had us remind ourselves what were the things
that our talents and or ourlived experiences help us find
courage.
Tim Terrentine (19:35):
That's it.
Ariah Daniels (19:36):
We understand. You know, so I said positivity.
I'm a positive person. I'malways looking for glass half
full. I'm also resilient.
I feel like I use a lot of mylived experiences, whether it
was trauma or whatever it was,right, to know,
Tim Terrentine (19:50):
oh, hey. I got through that thing.
Ariah Daniels (19:51):
I'm more resilient, and now I can get
through this next thing, whichis taking the courage to do x y
z. Right? So those having us dothat exercise where we're
defining what were the talentsthat we have that help us become
courageous and or livedexperiences.
Sam D'Arc (20:05):
So step on could be taking a personal interview. And
if you don't know that thingyourself, when you did that
exercise at the table, peoplewere asking each other, what do
you feel like gives me thecourage? Yeah. Do that tough
thing. Right?
What's your thing?
Tim Terrentine (20:19):
Oh, I've got a few of them. I think I think
resilience is one of them.Right? That idea that we can
keep coming and get through.There's just something about me.
Sam D'Arc (20:28):
Yeah. And
Tim Terrentine (20:29):
it comes both from my family. I grew up in a
family of 6. Right? And thenthere's other things about my
past that have said, hey, you'regonna get knocked down. You're
not gonna feel so great, butmarch on.
Mhmm. Right? And so that's whenyou ask me about steps, it's
really about who am I and whatis needed? What am I bringing
and what do we need?
Sam D'Arc (20:48):
And then you just gotta take the action. Right?
Tim Terrentine (20:50):
The the next small, right, splice again,
we're not trying to boil theocean. What we're trying to do
is get closer to courage. Yeah.One step, one move at a time.
Sam D'Arc (21:00):
So I think a culture can help celebrate. Now I'm
gonna give you the answer formine. I think one of mine
optimism, I think it's
Tim Terrentine (21:07):
oh, yeah. I have some
Sam D'Arc (21:08):
think a little bit and and not in a religious
sense, but faith that always atthe end of the challenge is
potential for something.
Tim Terrentine (21:15):
Yeah. That's right.
Sam D'Arc (21:16):
Like, I don't know why it is. I have this bizarre
optimism that it's always gonnabe okay to end. Yeah. Even
though in the deepest darkestmoments, it's not. Right?
And I don't know why that is,but I'm grateful for that. So
teams have culture thencelebrate courage. And I think
at the Zigler Auto Group, we dothat. I think about being on
calls where someone sayssomething. I think, and and
(21:37):
others rally to that personbehind the scenes to say, hey.
Great job. That was anincredible comment. Thank you
for saying that and doing that.What role does culture have in
supporting courage and helpingto develop? Because courage is a
muscle after all.
Right? Like in something you'vegot to continually exercise,
otherwise, it dies and goes awayin indifference. Right? What
role does culture have?
Tim Terrentine (21:57):
Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah. I know. I
Well, because I think for me,courage is at the center of
culture, because cult I mean,courage is connected to culture.
Yeah.
Right? That if people are afraidto lift up a different idea
without fear of retribution,that's your culture. Mhmm.
Right?
Sam D'Arc (22:17):
If people are afraid to lift up a different idea.
Different idea.
Tim Terrentine (22:19):
Yeah. That's your culture. It's a fear based
culture. Whether you talkedabout courage or not, it is your
culture. And so but if on theother side, if there is space
for people to bring up an idea,give feedback, receive feedback,
we got channels for all of thiswithout the words Being killed
by.
Without the retribution. Right?Then that's your culture.
(22:42):
Pickering.
Sam D'Arc (22:43):
Can I give you another benefit? I think as I
just connecting this in my head.I think at our auto group, there
is a quick connection between anidea and execution. Is there is
there a nexus between sayingsomething and doing something in
a culture of courage? Becausethere are cultures where people
will talk all the time andnobody will ever execute.
(23:04):
It seems to me there's some sortof a connection between
execution and courage.
Tim Terrentine (23:07):
Right? Depends on the situation. Okay. Depends
on the stakes. Right?
Now, I think it's a everysituation kind of thing. I don't
think there's a, one size fitsall. But there is a one step
takes all, and just that's thenext right one. Right? Whatever
that small, next courageous stepworks.
Yeah. In that situation.
Sam D'Arc (23:27):
Yeah. Yeah. So, Araya, what have you seen
examples of teams celebratingcourage within our culture?
Ariah Daniels (23:33):
Oh, yeah. A 100%. I mean, even just going back to
the culture surveys. Right? Whenwe come to the end and we create
action items Yeah.
And then to see them executed,like, after a few months, we can
check-in just to see, hey. How'sthe store doing? What are
Tim Terrentine (23:47):
the process that they ask?
Ariah Daniels (23:49):
You know, we do I mean, a lot of it is just by
conversation and, like, spendingtime in the store, and you can
you can see those changeshappening, which is really cool.
So it's not even like we need todo another reassessment. It's
just you just see the change.And so for people to be
courageous to speak up aboutmaking that change and then
seeing it executed, Youdefinitely feel that. And that's
that's the whole part of doingthose cultures.
Sam D'Arc (24:10):
So someone at my table today said, courage for me
is taking criticism. And I thinkabout Oh, yeah. In a culture
survey, a GM, and we had GMsthat have had brutal surveys.
Yeah. And they've been humbleenough, and they've had courage
enough to take on that.
Tim Terrentine (24:25):
All of us have to have it.
Ariah Daniels (24:26):
Oh, yeah. That's
Tim Terrentine (24:27):
it you have to have it. You have to to grow. If
you don't, in this environment,you go backwards. There's no
stand still. Right?
Not only, is the environmentwe're working in change, the way
people feel about that ischanged. Right? And so that that
being able to courageously openthose environments for people to
(24:49):
bring their gifts, bring thegenius, bring the ideas, that is
a courageous act that if theorganization is thinking about
it, leaders are thinking aboutit. Yeah. The change can happen.
Sam D'Arc (25:01):
So as we near wrapping here, last couple of
questions, I always like to stepback and ask this question.
We're an auto group. We sellcars, 4000 cars a month ish. We
service a heck of a lot of cars.Why on earth is an auto group
sitting around taking time outof car sales and service
people's day to talk aboutcourage?
I mean, that's insane. Right?Why?
Tim Terrentine (25:21):
Well, I would I would argue it's insane not to.
Ariah Daniels (25:24):
Yeah. Yeah?
Sam D'Arc (25:24):
But most auto groups don't. To those that are
listening to this
Tim Terrentine (25:28):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (25:29):
It this is probably a a drink a fresh breath of fresh
air because a lot of places kindof ignore this. It feels weird.
Tim Terrentine (25:37):
I would encourage them to take the
courageous step and startrunning. Right? Because let me
ask you this. What what role isfear and indifference playing on
your bottom line? Yeah.
How much time are you spendingon the fruits of that? Right?
How much do we miss not gettingpeople's ideas and genius?
(25:58):
Right? I would just ask someother some follow-up questions.
I hear you that the 2 hours youspend on a courage class has
cost you.
Sam D'Arc (26:04):
Yeah. You're right. Some of that car. You're not
servicing that car.
Tim Terrentine (26:07):
How many hours you spend on a year dealing with
when there is a courage? It'smuch more than those 2 hours. I
can guarantee it.
Sam D'Arc (26:14):
Yeah. Right. So on that note, how do people reach
out to you if and we have you toourselves in the auto space. So
no fair compensation. They can'ttouch you.
I'm kidding. They're right.
Tim Terrentine (26:25):
That ain't right, Sam. That ain't right.
But how do they get a voice? Sotranslatorscg.com, and on
Instagram, translatorscg. Andwe're just we're reaching out to
folks, and we're engaging withgroups about these topics.
Yeah. The topics that are taboo,but are important. Courage,
(26:47):
resilience, communication,conflict, the things that really
move our business, but we don'ttalk about it.
Sam D'Arc (26:53):
It sure makes you fake, And I love being in a room
with other teammates of alldifferent roles. I mean, we have
today, we had GMs, we had salesmanagers, we had porters, we had
like, everybody's there puttingthis together. It shows a
certain amount of humility that,you know, you don't have a GM
saying, well, I'm not gonnawaste my time. That. Or Oh, no.
Or a salesperson saying, hey.You know what? I sell 98 cars a
(27:14):
month. I don't need this. Like,we all come together in that
locker room and we learntogether, and there's just
something pretty pretty coolabout that.
Yeah. Thank you. So last thismonth, you're doing courage.
Last go around, we had you here.Resilience.
Ariah Daniels (27:27):
Resilience. It was resilience. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (27:28):
Yeah. What's what's up next?
Tim Terrentine (27:31):
Well, we're figuring that out now because we
got you all are doing some coolthings with culture into the new
year. And so my work will be toreally support and double down
Sam D'Arc (27:41):
Okay.
Tim Terrentine (27:42):
Through learning on the concepts you all are
gonna be launching at the end.
Sam D'Arc (27:45):
Not such a like, do you have any, like, any any
hook, Aria? Any, anything?
Ariah Daniels (27:49):
You know, it's gonna it's gonna be surrounding
probably some vision and goalsetting, having a vision for the
year, different things likethat. So that's, 2025. We're
gonna have the courage to make achoice to, step
Tim Terrentine (28:01):
up in new and bigger ways. So yeah. It's gonna
be fun.
Sam D'Arc (28:05):
Well, we appreciate you being here. We appreciate
you being on the podcast. Heck alot of fun, Araya. I get the
last words.
Ariah Daniels (28:09):
Oh, man. I'm gonna just I'm gonna repeat what
I literally just said. Courageis a choice. Courage is a daily
choice. You get to choose toshow up courageously every
single day and share that withothers, so it's contagious.
So I'd encourage team Zieglerand everyone else listening,
share that courage with others.
Sam D'Arc (28:26):
Well said. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Tim.
Tim Terrentine (28:28):
Thank you.
Sam D'Arc (28:38):
Thanks to all who participated in this week's
podcast. Until next week,remember, you are the future of
ZAG today.
It's a beautiful thing that happens when human
when we take that small step ofjust connecting instead of
shrinking.
Sam D'Arc (00:16):
Welcome everyone to the driving vision podcast
brought to you by the ZiglerAuto Group. I'm your host, Sam
Dark. Be sure to subscribe tothe podcast. Like it if you do,
and leave a comment. Hey,everybody.
Welcome to the special editionof the Driving Vision future of
Zach Today podcast. And backwith us again today, obviously,
Araya Daniels, welcome.
Ariah Daniels (00:37):
Thank you, Sam. Glad to be here.
Sam D'Arc (00:38):
VP Talent Development. But, Tim Tarantine
with Translators ConsultingGroup.
Tim Terrentine (00:44):
That's right. Right? Yes. I got it. You got
it?
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (00:48):
So, Tim, it was awesome because I wasn't
expecting to see you today. Iwas up here, recording some
stuff, had an Internet outage,which we've got to get to the
bottom of. And I came and wasable to sit in on your
classroom. It was an absolutedelight because I don't often
get to sit in on the classes.
Tim Terrentine (01:04):
It was fun to hear me.
Sam D'Arc (01:05):
It would be what a cool conversation. And let's
just get into it. Courage.
Tim Terrentine (01:09):
Courage was the call of the game.
Sam D'Arc (01:11):
Araya, what does courage mean to you after today?
Ariah Daniels (01:14):
You know, courage really is synonymous with me
with confidence. And so when Ithink about being courageous,
being confident, so I'm reallyexcited to dive into some of the
really big points that we hit onfor this class
Sam D'Arc (01:26):
today. Yeah. How would you define courage? How
did you define courage today,Tim?
Tim Terrentine (01:30):
I well, we shared lots of definitions, but
at the end of the day, it'sreally about taking the next
small step. Yeah. Right? That inin life when we need courage,
it's all about what's the nextsmall thing I can do. Right?
Because I think it's just becomesuch a big target for so many of
(01:50):
us that if we can't solve thescariest thing, if we can't
climb the biggest mountain,we're somehow a failure. But the
truth is sometimes courage isjust getting up in the morning.
Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's nothitting send.
Sam D'Arc (02:04):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (02:05):
Right? And so we can we we have so many ways we
can be courageous, without somebig, you know, celebration. So
what we try to do is makecourage real for people at work
and and explore the ways we canshow up courageously.
Sam D'Arc (02:20):
You know, it's interesting because I've thought
a lot recently. I don't know whythis came up in my world past
several weeks, months, whatever,but there are moments in our
lives, personal and business,where you feel that tension in
your chest, you start to feelnervous, you start to sweat a
little bit
Tim Terrentine (02:35):
Oh, yeah.
Sam D'Arc (02:36):
And you're like, this is a decisive moment. Like, if I
have courage
Tim Terrentine (02:40):
and I say what I know I should say, I act how I
know I should act, in
Sam D'Arc (02:44):
that moment, it's gonna be a little bit of a
challenge and uncomfortable. Butif I don't, that's gonna stick
with me
Ariah Daniels (02:50):
Yeah. Longer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fair?
Talk about leaving the thecomfort zone. That was a huge
topic of conversation today isthat leaving that comfort zone
takes courage.
Sam D'Arc (03:00):
It takes courage. Yeah.
Ariah Daniels (03:02):
And what you're to your point, like, holding on
to that feeling, that tension inyour chest, you can choose to
whether you're gonna get throughthat moment Yeah. And work
through that comfort zone or theother side of that Yeah. Or
continue to deal with whatever'sgoing on there.
Sam D'Arc (03:16):
Yeah. Like So you've talked to a lot of our teams as
you've gone around the group. Soyou've been here in Kalamazoo,
Granville, I think, and and theChicagoland. What are some
examples of moments where teammembers have needed to exhibit
courage to do somethingdifficult where it's ultimately
turned out well.
Tim Terrentine (03:33):
Yeah. I think what I heard a lot so far today
was feedback. Right? When weneed to speak up, not to put
anybody down or blow anythingup, but to just help us get back
in the groove. Yeah.
Sometimes, you know, the war ofattrition. You're working hard,
you're working fast, clients areall over the place for
(03:53):
everybody. We have to workacross teams, sometimes we
drift. So just being able tolift my voice in a meeting to
help us redirect seems like asmall act, but think of how many
meetings we sit in where themajority of the room is silent
and everybody knows somebodyshould say something. Right?
So it's not necessarily some bigoverwhelming thing.
Sam D'Arc (04:16):
So but you can't just be reckless with courage.
Courage also requires does itrequire integrity or a little
bit of heart? Like, you can'tjust throw a ball and out the
meeting. It's not gonna help
Ariah Daniels (04:27):
it. We did talk about that today. We had someone
say, hey. You know, have youever been in a meeting where one
person will say what everyone'sthinking?
Sam D'Arc (04:34):
Right.
Ariah Daniels (04:34):
And then you do it, and then everyone else gets
the courage to speak up and talkabout the same topic. So I think
there are calculated risks thatyou choose to take in those
moments, and it's gotta be atthe right time. And we talked
about that today too. Like,being able to to have the
courage in those moments whereyou feel like, okay. It's time.
Tim Terrentine (04:53):
What and part of that is how you prepare for
courage.
Sam D'Arc (04:55):
How do you how do you prepare?
Tim Terrentine (04:56):
Well, it's like a muscle. K. Right? You have to
work out so that you have thestrength you need when you need
it. And that's that's a biglike, for instance, one of the
points of working out is to playout the scenarios.
So in that meeting where I haveto speak up, I can think to
myself, what's the worst thatcould happen if I raise my hand?
And then the other considerationis what happens if I don't? What
(05:19):
happens to my team? What happensto me? What happens to our
efficiency?
What happens to ourrelationships if I do nothing?
Right? Another one that wetalked about was taking care of
my body. So we all havestressful moments and things we
know we have to face. There'smeetings on the calendar.
There's end of the month thingsthat come every month.
Sam D'Arc (05:42):
So what does taking care of your body have to do
with courage? Well, how doesequal fitness have to do with
courage?
Tim Terrentine (05:48):
Well, it's not just fitness. Okay. It's sleep.
It's rest. It's mindfulness.
It's take I get it. You knowwhat? They don't sleep, but
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (05:57):
It's a problem
Tim Terrentine (05:57):
for me. Rest, man. Because courage requires us
to do something we're nottypically doing. And in some
cases, I'm actually doing theopposite of what I'm afraid of.
I can't do that on an emptytank.
Sam D'Arc (06:13):
Now that is interesting because when we're
sleep deficient, there's thatwhole fight or flight. Right?
Yes. Those moments of courageoften to to a lot of us, either
trigger a flight or theytrigger, an aggressive fight.
That's right.
Courage isn't going into ameeting room and picking a
fight. Maybe that's what I meantearlier. Like, you have to come
into that meeting with the rightheart
Ariah Daniels (06:33):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (06:33):
To speak with courage. Because if you come in
with the wrong heart and youspeak with courage, you could
say something truly offensivethat could hurt your teeth.
Boom. And then ultimately coulddamage what you're trying. You
talk about that preparation.
How can the wrong preparationlead to damage in the teeth?
Tim Terrentine (06:50):
Well, courage is tied to values.
Sam D'Arc (06:52):
Okay.
Tim Terrentine (06:53):
And that's why I think particularly in the
Ziegler context, you all reallydo push your values as a company
when you talk about it. Becausepeople can be courageous and
tear people down. We we stillhave an endgame. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (07:12):
That's not.
Tim Terrentine (07:13):
And so what's driving your courage?
Sam D'Arc (07:14):
So where's the line? Okay. It's Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:16):
Right. What's driving your courage? What do
you value?
Sam D'Arc (07:18):
What what are my motivation?
Tim Terrentine (07:19):
What is your culture?
Sam D'Arc (07:20):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:21):
Right? So if the culture for instance, some
companies I work with, theinnovation is a big deal. We
want all the ideas. We wanna becreative, but people can't speak
up.
Sam D'Arc (07:30):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (07:31):
People can't bring new ideas without fear of
being torn down. Uh-huh. Right?And so we have to create
environments where courage helpsour mission.
Sam D'Arc (07:41):
So I'm gonna put Araya on spot. So Araya did an
interesting process over thepast many months. You went
around to many of the stores andyou did culture surveys. Right?
Culture surveys are a goodexample of a time and a place
where you wanna say everything
Ariah Daniels (07:53):
Yep.
Sam D'Arc (07:53):
But you have to come with courage. You have to be
courageous. So you have to know,you know, sharing everything
doesn't necessarily always help.Hi. What's your perspective on
these culture surveys?
And and to you as a leader,what's the most helpful feedback
you get in those that builds theteam, builds the culture, not
terror?
Ariah Daniels (08:13):
Yeah. Sure. So, you know, when we're speaking
specifically about our culturesurveys and that process that we
do Yeah. We're inviting peopleto come in and bring us those
ideas. Like so they're comingin, and we're expecting them to
give us information.
Right? Like, we want that. Andso I think creating a safe space
(08:33):
to allow them to do that givesthem the
Sam D'Arc (08:36):
courage to create a space Sure.
Ariah Daniels (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (08:41):
Is all of it helpful? And then how do you as a leader
redirect to help create
Ariah Daniels (08:46):
Oh, that's a really that's a really good
question. So I am a big believerthat everyone's feelings are
valid regardless. Right? So ifsomeone feels something or if
they've got an opinion aboutsomething, whatever in their
experiences that they've hadinside the workforce, they're
valid. So we help really dissectwhat they're trying to say and
say, hey.
(09:06):
Is there a solution to this? Andif it's something where they're
just trying to nitpick and orcreate drama, then it's then
it's easy to kind of put
Tim Terrentine (09:14):
a kibosh to some of those things. But,
ultimately, I always try toremind myself is that someone's
got
Ariah Daniels (09:18):
an opinion about something because they have
struggled with something orthey've gone through an
experience at work that allowsthem to have that feeling and be
valid. So, it's an interestingdynamic when we sit through and
create what are the actions nowthat we're gonna do to fix those
pieces of culture. Yeah. Butstill giving everyone the amount
of courage and safe space tospeak on regardless. Like,
(09:41):
that's the reason why we dothat.
Sam D'Arc (09:42):
Does well placed courage create drama, Tim?
Tim Terrentine (09:45):
Well, it can. You're dealing with humans.
They're they're very complex andunpredictable. Alright. You're
laughing like that's I know.
It I mean, I'm serious becauseyou can some people and this is
what is the beauty and theburden of humanity. Is that we
come in all flavors
Ariah Daniels (10:02):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (10:02):
And all temperatures at any given time.
It's a courageous act to ask forfeedback
Ariah Daniels (10:08):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (10:09):
As a company.
Ariah Daniels (10:10):
And it can be delivered differently is what
we're saying.
Sam D'Arc (10:12):
I applaud you, by the way. It took courage because you
and Mike basically said, hey.You know what? We've always had
this process. We've always kindaset up the survey.
You dared to walk into storesthat hadn't been asked that
question for a long time andthen and then take the answer.
Tim Terrentine (10:27):
Oh, yeah.
Sam D'Arc (10:28):
And it it also takes courage to hear it Mhmm.
Unvarnished. Yes. And it alsotakes courage to sort through it
and kinda figure out what whatis, you know it's all
actionable, but it's not allnecessarily equally actionable.
Right?
Yeah. Sure. Part of it isdevelopment and and and helping,
and helping each other. Sothat's a what's the opposite of
courage?
Tim Terrentine (10:48):
That's a great question. Well, most people when
I asked the class, they're like,what's the opposite? And I heard
legally asked. I did. I said,what's the opposite?
And they said laziness. Theysaid cowardice. They said fear.
Sam D'Arc (10:59):
I would say fear.
Tim Terrentine (11:00):
Yeah? Mhmm. It's actually worse than that.
Passive aggressive. It'sindifference.
Oh. The opposite of courage andworse than cowardice
Sam D'Arc (11:10):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (11:11):
Is when we don't care. When we stop trying.
Sam D'Arc (11:15):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (11:16):
Right? And and I told the class, and I'll say it
here, I have to admit, I've letmyself get there on things that
are important to me. Right?Missions that are important to
me. I just I'm overwhelmed.
I'm burdened. I'm upset. I'mtired. I'm sick and tired of
being sick and tired, and I justsay forget it. And I make
something that is reallyimportant not mean anything to
(11:39):
me.
Indifference, it don't make adifference to me. Right? And
that's the opposite of courage.
Sam D'Arc (11:44):
I love that, by the way, because we see that. You
know what? You can attempt tohave courage over and over and
over again, and if you're notmet by a reaction, that can
sometimes lead to indifference.Because you don't think
Tim Terrentine (11:56):
to
Sam D'Arc (11:56):
make a difference. Right, Pat? So if I'm in a place
of emotional indifference to andwe're getting deep there. Deep.
Oh, there's been 4 years.
Come in
Tim Terrentine (12:05):
to Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (12:06):
Yeah. Become indifferent, and I know I need
to exhibit courage as a leader,how do I get myself back from
indifference?
Tim Terrentine (12:13):
That's a concern.
Ariah Daniels (12:14):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (12:14):
One of the points I made today was connect,
don't constrict. When I wannagive in and go into my cave of I
don't care, that's not the timeto constrict, to get smaller.
That's the time to reach out andconnect. That's the time to make
connections, to reach out toadministrators, to connect.
Don't constrict.
Right? Reach out. Connect.Carries in. There you go.
(12:37):
That's it. And so as as leaders,it's a lonely job. And we're so
used to having to try to havethe answers that a lot of times,
we just go into a cave.
Sam D'Arc (12:48):
Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (12:48):
And the truth is, we all need somebody. And
actually, courage is contagious.So if I go to people who are
courageous in the moment, I'mready to shut down. I can borrow
from yours. I can borrow fromMariah's, and I can get my
groove back just throughconnecting.
It's a beautiful thing thathappens with humans when we take
that small step of justconnecting instead of shrinking.
Sam D'Arc (13:11):
I love that. Araya, you I so I'm gonna have her
cheer for a minute to bring upsomething that tell us about the
group you meet.
Ariah Daniels (13:17):
For which one? For women.
Sam D'Arc (13:18):
For women. For women. For women. For women.
Ariah Daniels (13:20):
Yeah. Okay. So we just actually, over the last 6
months, started a new leadershipgroup inside Ziegler Auto Group
called Women Leaders of the ZAG.And this was something that I
had had on my heart for a whileto create a space for the
females of the organization tocome together and learn from
each other. Conversations arejust a little bit different and
be able to connect that way.
Sam D'Arc (13:41):
When Tim says connect, don't constrict Yeah. I
wonder if sometimes, you know,you you've made us aware of some
of the differences andchallenges. Are there situations
where women in our automotiveindustry might constrict, might
kind of give up their voice,maybe become indifferent because
they're not heard in the sameway? Yeah. Do you see that?
Ariah Daniels (14:02):
How would this No. But not even you know, I
don't even wanna put, you know,a label on women. I think it's
anyone and everyone. Right?Like, I think anyone in the
organization, and we talkedabout a couple of examples today
where people might see see anidea to fix a process and make
it a little bit morestreamlined.
Yeah. But because it's alwaysthe way that it's been
Sam D'Arc (14:19):
Right. Yep.
Ariah Daniels (14:20):
People are afraid or don't have the courage to
speak up to say, hey. This couldbe different. Yeah. And so I
think we see that all the timeto to build that courage up to
to jump in and say, hey. I'vegot something different.
Let's do it this way. Let's tryit out. And that's a risk.
Sam D'Arc (14:36):
So the members of your group, if they feel that
need to constrict, what wouldyou tell them?
Ariah Daniels (14:41):
So connect. So I
Sam D'Arc (14:42):
said, yeah. Take advantage.
Ariah Daniels (14:43):
You know? And I think constricting, it
Sam D'Arc (14:44):
comes from a moment of fear. Right? Yeah. And a and
a and a and a moment of deface.Right?
Tim Terrentine (14:48):
Well, it's protection.
Sam D'Arc (14:49):
Yeah. Protection. Protective.
Ariah Daniels (14:51):
What would you tell your wife? Well, I think in
just connecting exactly what Timis saying, I think when you get
to the point of feelingindifferent about things,
instead of, like, cowering backand saying, oh, I can't change
this or
Tim Terrentine (15:02):
I can't do this, I would encourage people to
start connecting with othersaround you to say, hey. Like,
what does what does this looklike? How do you feel about
this? How can I how can
Ariah Daniels (15:10):
I feed off some of the energy that you can give
me to go give some courage tomake a change somewhere? That's
right. Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (15:16):
We call it small as all.
Sam D'Arc (15:18):
Wait. What does that mean? What does small as all
mean?
Tim Terrentine (15:21):
Man, I need to be courageous. I just need to
think of what I can do on themicro level to be courageous.
Right? Yeah. Instead of sendingthat team's message Yeah.
I might get up and walks to talkto the person so I get some
understanding. Right? Like,sometimes it's just a small ad
(15:42):
and what we do in the smallscale sets the stage for the
whole thing. So if we can getpeople doing small courageous
acts, we're not acting anymore.It's a part of our culture,
isn't we all?
We just are courageous as a teambecause we do it in the small.
Ariah Daniels (15:59):
Which related it to exercise today and calling
progressive overload. So, youknow, if someone's got a goal
that they wanna lose a £100,right, that's a pretty big goal.
And so what do you do? You startsmall. You start with those
small things.
It's the same exact thing inconcept to courage. Like, when
you are working at those smallpieces of courage to help get to
(16:19):
the bigger bigger courage isthat's that's the concept.
Tim Terrentine (16:23):
Small is all. And it's amazing in the class.
When I ask people to list smallacts of courage that they've
done in the workplace, somehowwe had a room full of responses.
So it's not that we don't knowhow to do courage. What we gotta
do and what I hope this classhas done and is doing is helping
(16:46):
people access it moreconsistently.
Yeah. Because we all have hadcourageous moments where we did
step up, and we know how thatfeels.
Sam D'Arc (16:54):
So can I give you some concrete examples? So I was
at the room. Thank you forallowing me to be there for a
little bit, and I had the stickynote. We all wrote something
down.
Tim Terrentine (17:01):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (17:01):
What's an example of courage? I wrote down, and I
think Orion and I actually had asimilar one. Right? It's like
change. Right?
So when something's just beendone the same way forever, like,
it's tough to change sometimes.It's risk. They gotta get
everybody on board with thevision, whatever. At my table
was a an assistant, servicewriter at the board, and he
(17:24):
said, hey. My moment of courageneeds to be, he hadn't done that
yet, finding ways to connectwith customers to speak up and
speak out on behalf ofcustomers.
And I sat thought about that.I'm like, that's cool.
Tim Terrentine (17:36):
Yeah. It is.
Sam D'Arc (17:37):
Because a, that's to us might seem easy. Yeah. To
him, it's terrifying becausehe's newer. Right. Everybody at
the team kinda gathered aroundhim and said it's newer.
I love that you had everybodysay a thing because then after
they said that thing, everybodykinda gathered around and gave
him support.
Ariah Daniels (17:53):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (17:54):
And I don't know if he went back and did it. I mean,
we'll know after today, I guess.But that one little thing
delivers on our mission state,the ultimate automobile
experience. Alright. Do you seeanything at your table?
Ariah Daniels (18:05):
Yeah. Oh, gosh. There was there was some, some
funny ones, but a lot of theones that we talked about had
something to do with the idea ofchange where, like, someone had
seen a process look some way,and they felt like they were
having a hard time finding thecourage to speak up to challenge
that. Yeah. So little thingslike that, you know, just in
(18:25):
processes, I think.
Sam D'Arc (18:26):
Sometimes courage is saying it and then getting shot
down and still continuing tohave courage. Right? Because
you're not courage is not alwaysgonna be met successfully. Yeah.
Tim Terrentine (18:38):
Oh, no. Is it? No. No. No.
Not every chance is gonna workout the way you imagine. No. And
that's and and that's importantand there's real feelings around
it, but that ain't the point.Yeah. The point is were you
courageous?
Sam D'Arc (18:51):
Yeah. Alright. So if I'm listening to this podcast
Yes. And I'm hearing, like,courage, I get it. Taking the
risk, I get it.
Doing something that I know Ishould do or could do or need to
do, taking that small step. Whatadvice would you give to people
listening across the Zuglow AutoGroup? Do you have, like, some
sort of a courage assessment?Like, what what's the thing that
(19:12):
I could rally myself to do toget myself up and excited about
it? And then, here's thechallenge.
We wanna hear. So email us atthe podcast and tell us what
you've done that took courageand what was the ripple in the
pond that it created. So give ussome steps.
Ariah Daniels (19:27):
You had us remind ourselves what were the things
that our talents and or ourlived experiences help us find
courage.
Tim Terrentine (19:35):
That's it.
Ariah Daniels (19:36):
We understand. You know, so I said positivity.
I'm a positive person. I'malways looking for glass half
full. I'm also resilient.
I feel like I use a lot of mylived experiences, whether it
was trauma or whatever it was,right, to know,
Tim Terrentine (19:50):
oh, hey. I got through that thing.
Ariah Daniels (19:51):
I'm more resilient, and now I can get
through this next thing, whichis taking the courage to do x y
z. Right? So those having us dothat exercise where we're
defining what were the talentsthat we have that help us become
courageous and or livedexperiences.
Sam D'Arc (20:05):
So step on could be taking a personal interview. And
if you don't know that thingyourself, when you did that
exercise at the table, peoplewere asking each other, what do
you feel like gives me thecourage? Yeah. Do that tough
thing. Right?
What's your thing?
Tim Terrentine (20:19):
Oh, I've got a few of them. I think I think
resilience is one of them.Right? That idea that we can
keep coming and get through.There's just something about me.
Sam D'Arc (20:28):
Yeah. And
Tim Terrentine (20:29):
it comes both from my family. I grew up in a
family of 6. Right? And thenthere's other things about my
past that have said, hey, you'regonna get knocked down. You're
not gonna feel so great, butmarch on.
Mhmm. Right? And so that's whenyou ask me about steps, it's
really about who am I and whatis needed? What am I bringing
and what do we need?
Sam D'Arc (20:48):
And then you just gotta take the action. Right?
Tim Terrentine (20:50):
The the next small, right, splice again,
we're not trying to boil theocean. What we're trying to do
is get closer to courage. Yeah.One step, one move at a time.
Sam D'Arc (21:00):
So I think a culture can help celebrate. Now I'm
gonna give you the answer formine. I think one of mine
optimism, I think it's
Tim Terrentine (21:07):
oh, yeah. I have some
Sam D'Arc (21:08):
think a little bit and and not in a religious
sense, but faith that always atthe end of the challenge is
potential for something.
Tim Terrentine (21:15):
Yeah. That's right.
Sam D'Arc (21:16):
Like, I don't know why it is. I have this bizarre
optimism that it's always gonnabe okay to end. Yeah. Even
though in the deepest darkestmoments, it's not. Right?
And I don't know why that is,but I'm grateful for that. So
teams have culture thencelebrate courage. And I think
at the Zigler Auto Group, we dothat. I think about being on
calls where someone sayssomething. I think, and and
(21:37):
others rally to that personbehind the scenes to say, hey.
Great job. That was anincredible comment. Thank you
for saying that and doing that.What role does culture have in
supporting courage and helpingto develop? Because courage is a
muscle after all.
Right? Like in something you'vegot to continually exercise,
otherwise, it dies and goes awayin indifference. Right? What
role does culture have?
Tim Terrentine (21:57):
Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah. I know. I
Well, because I think for me,courage is at the center of
culture, because cult I mean,courage is connected to culture.
Yeah.
Right? That if people are afraidto lift up a different idea
without fear of retribution,that's your culture. Mhmm.
Right?
Sam D'Arc (22:17):
If people are afraid to lift up a different idea.
Different idea.
Tim Terrentine (22:19):
Yeah. That's your culture. It's a fear based
culture. Whether you talkedabout courage or not, it is your
culture. And so but if on theother side, if there is space
for people to bring up an idea,give feedback, receive feedback,
we got channels for all of thiswithout the words Being killed
by.
Without the retribution. Right?Then that's your culture.
(22:42):
Pickering.
Sam D'Arc (22:43):
Can I give you another benefit? I think as I
just connecting this in my head.I think at our auto group, there
is a quick connection between anidea and execution. Is there is
there a nexus between sayingsomething and doing something in
a culture of courage? Becausethere are cultures where people
will talk all the time andnobody will ever execute.
(23:04):
It seems to me there's some sortof a connection between
execution and courage.
Tim Terrentine (23:07):
Right? Depends on the situation. Okay. Depends
on the stakes. Right?
Now, I think it's a everysituation kind of thing. I don't
think there's a, one size fitsall. But there is a one step
takes all, and just that's thenext right one. Right? Whatever
that small, next courageous stepworks.
Yeah. In that situation.
Sam D'Arc (23:27):
Yeah. Yeah. So, Araya, what have you seen
examples of teams celebratingcourage within our culture?
Ariah Daniels (23:33):
Oh, yeah. A 100%. I mean, even just going back to
the culture surveys. Right? Whenwe come to the end and we create
action items Yeah.
And then to see them executed,like, after a few months, we can
check-in just to see, hey. How'sthe store doing? What are
Tim Terrentine (23:47):
the process that they ask?
Ariah Daniels (23:49):
You know, we do I mean, a lot of it is just by
conversation and, like, spendingtime in the store, and you can
you can see those changeshappening, which is really cool.
So it's not even like we need todo another reassessment. It's
just you just see the change.And so for people to be
courageous to speak up aboutmaking that change and then
seeing it executed, Youdefinitely feel that. And that's
that's the whole part of doingthose cultures.
Sam D'Arc (24:10):
So someone at my table today said, courage for me
is taking criticism. And I thinkabout Oh, yeah. In a culture
survey, a GM, and we had GMsthat have had brutal surveys.
Yeah. And they've been humbleenough, and they've had courage
enough to take on that.
Tim Terrentine (24:25):
All of us have to have it.
Ariah Daniels (24:26):
Oh, yeah. That's
Tim Terrentine (24:27):
it you have to have it. You have to to grow. If
you don't, in this environment,you go backwards. There's no
stand still. Right?
Not only, is the environmentwe're working in change, the way
people feel about that ischanged. Right? And so that that
being able to courageously openthose environments for people to
(24:49):
bring their gifts, bring thegenius, bring the ideas, that is
a courageous act that if theorganization is thinking about
it, leaders are thinking aboutit. Yeah. The change can happen.
Sam D'Arc (25:01):
So as we near wrapping here, last couple of
questions, I always like to stepback and ask this question.
We're an auto group. We sellcars, 4000 cars a month ish. We
service a heck of a lot of cars.Why on earth is an auto group
sitting around taking time outof car sales and service
people's day to talk aboutcourage?
I mean, that's insane. Right?Why?
Tim Terrentine (25:21):
Well, I would I would argue it's insane not to.
Ariah Daniels (25:24):
Yeah. Yeah?
Sam D'Arc (25:24):
But most auto groups don't. To those that are
listening to this
Tim Terrentine (25:28):
Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (25:29):
It this is probably a a drink a fresh breath of fresh
air because a lot of places kindof ignore this. It feels weird.
Tim Terrentine (25:37):
I would encourage them to take the
courageous step and startrunning. Right? Because let me
ask you this. What what role isfear and indifference playing on
your bottom line? Yeah.
How much time are you spendingon the fruits of that? Right?
How much do we miss not gettingpeople's ideas and genius?
(25:58):
Right? I would just ask someother some follow-up questions.
I hear you that the 2 hours youspend on a courage class has
cost you.
Sam D'Arc (26:04):
Yeah. You're right. Some of that car. You're not
servicing that car.
Tim Terrentine (26:07):
How many hours you spend on a year dealing with
when there is a courage? It'smuch more than those 2 hours. I
can guarantee it.
Sam D'Arc (26:14):
Yeah. Right. So on that note, how do people reach
out to you if and we have you toourselves in the auto space. So
no fair compensation. They can'ttouch you.
I'm kidding. They're right.
Tim Terrentine (26:25):
That ain't right, Sam. That ain't right.
But how do they get a voice? Sotranslatorscg.com, and on
Instagram, translatorscg. Andwe're just we're reaching out to
folks, and we're engaging withgroups about these topics.
Yeah. The topics that are taboo,but are important. Courage,
(26:47):
resilience, communication,conflict, the things that really
move our business, but we don'ttalk about it.
Sam D'Arc (26:53):
It sure makes you fake, And I love being in a room
with other teammates of alldifferent roles. I mean, we have
today, we had GMs, we had salesmanagers, we had porters, we had
like, everybody's there puttingthis together. It shows a
certain amount of humility that,you know, you don't have a GM
saying, well, I'm not gonnawaste my time. That. Or Oh, no.
Or a salesperson saying, hey.You know what? I sell 98 cars a
(27:14):
month. I don't need this. Like,we all come together in that
locker room and we learntogether, and there's just
something pretty pretty coolabout that.
Yeah. Thank you. So last thismonth, you're doing courage.
Last go around, we had you here.Resilience.
Ariah Daniels (27:27):
Resilience. It was resilience. Yeah.
Sam D'Arc (27:28):
Yeah. What's what's up next?
Tim Terrentine (27:31):
Well, we're figuring that out now because we
got you all are doing some coolthings with culture into the new
year. And so my work will be toreally support and double down
Sam D'Arc (27:41):
Okay.
Tim Terrentine (27:42):
Through learning on the concepts you all are
gonna be launching at the end.
Sam D'Arc (27:45):
Not such a like, do you have any, like, any any
hook, Aria? Any, anything?
Ariah Daniels (27:49):
You know, it's gonna it's gonna be surrounding
probably some vision and goalsetting, having a vision for the
year, different things likethat. So that's, 2025. We're
gonna have the courage to make achoice to, step
Tim Terrentine (28:01):
up in new and bigger ways. So yeah. It's gonna
be fun.
Sam D'Arc (28:05):
Well, we appreciate you being here. We appreciate
you being on the podcast. Heck alot of fun, Araya. I get the
last words.
Ariah Daniels (28:09):
Oh, man. I'm gonna just I'm gonna repeat what
I literally just said. Courageis a choice. Courage is a daily
choice. You get to choose toshow up courageously every
single day and share that withothers, so it's contagious.
So I'd encourage team Zieglerand everyone else listening,
share that courage with others.
Sam D'Arc (28:26):
Well said. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Tim.
Tim Terrentine (28:28):
Thank you.
Sam D'Arc (28:38):
Thanks to all who participated in this week's
podcast. Until next week,remember, you are the future of
ZAG today.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com