February 12, 2025 • 15 mins
In this episode, we're talking toxic bosses and toxic political figures and how to handle them so you don't lose your mind.
Find out more about my work: www.melindagerdungcoaching.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey my friends,let's talk about when toxic men
(00:19):
are in positions of power. Thatscenario, unfortunately seems to
happen a lot. When you've comeout of a toxic relationship, it
can be especially triggering. Ithink I've talked about it here
before, but I can't remember forsure, but a few years ago, I
(00:40):
worked for a very abusive man.
It was a small startup typecompany, so there were only
seven of us in total.
The CEO was an incredibly toxicman.
There were clues of that, eventhe initial job interview that I
(01:04):
had, but I kind of just thoughtit was normal, and went ahead
and worked there. And it wasfine for a minute. But then one
day, the CEO, he was leavingearly, and he asked me to text
him when I sent out thisparticular report. So I emailed
(01:28):
out the report, and I rememberedthat he had asked me to text
him. I was hesitant to text himthough. The reason I was
hesitant is that in my previousjob, I had a senior level
manager send me inappropriatesexual harassment texts, and so
at that time, I vowed to myselfthat I would never let another
(01:52):
upper level manager type personhave my personal cell phone. So
if I texted the CEO, then hewould have my personal cell
phone number, and I didn't wanthim to have it just because I
had made that agreement withmyself. So I rationalized to
myself that he got email on hisphone, so he probably saw the
(02:14):
email come in, and it's fine. Ididn't need to text it to him.
But the next day, when I cameinto work, he was pissed. He
sent me an email with everyonein the company copied, saying
that he had asked me to text himwhen the report came out, and I
(02:34):
didn't and what is thedisconnect? I panicked. I
honestly didn't expect it to bethis big of a deal, so I was
just honest with him, and Isaid, Sorry I didn't feel
comfortable texting you on mypersonal cell phone.
He didn't reply to that, but therest of the day, he kept asking
(02:58):
me to do stuff for him, likereally pointless things, things
that when my direct boss saw medoing them for him, he was like,
what are you doing and tellingme, like, not to do it, that it
was stupid. But what my bossdidn't understand is that I had
to do it. Because the CEO wasn'tsending me these things to do
because he needed them done. Hewas doing it because he needed
(03:22):
me to obey him. Because Idisobeyed him once and now he
needed me to obey Him. Likecoming from a toxic
relationship, I could easilyrecognize this wasn't about the
thing he was asking me to do. Itwas about the obedience. So I
did all of the pointless stuffhe asked me to do, and I thought
(03:43):
maybe that would be penanceenough for him. Later in the
day, my boss called me in to hisoffice, and he said that the CEO
had gotten really upset about myresponse to why I didn't text
him. He started asking mequestions, like, had this CEO
ever done anything that made mefeel uncomfortable. And I said
(04:07):
no, I just preferred that myphone number not be had by him.
Because I didn't really want totell my boss about the sexual
harassment at my last job. Ijust I didn't feel comfortable
talking about it with him. Andmy boss proceeded to say that
one of the benefits at thecompany was that they
(04:29):
subsidized, our cell phonebills. And so because I didn't
want the CEO to have my phonenumber, I would no longer be
eligible for that benefit. So Icould either let the CEO have my
cell phone number and keep thebenefit or I could not let him
have it and lose the benefit.
Andat that time, it seemed likeI should just let him have it,
(05:06):
like it seemed like maybe all ofthis would just blow over faster
if he just had the phone number.
So I let him have it. I gave in.
But that wasn't enough.
And HR called me a few dayslater to talk about the
incident. And that was reallyscary for me, like it all felt
(05:30):
like I was in so much trouble,and I was actually shaking and
crying during that call.
And the office we were in was sosmall that I actually overheard
HR call him after they hadinterviewed me about what
happened. Because this idiottook his calls on speaker phone
at full volume in a tiny office.
HR was telling him that didn'treally see a problem, and they
(05:55):
considered this incidentresolved, and I could hear that
he wasn't happy with that. Hewanted me gone. And that was the
beginning of it all, thebeginning of his abuse. Because
it never blew over.
He would bring up the episodeperiodically, just to let me
(06:20):
know that he hadn't forgottenabout it and was still mad about
it. He abused my cell phonenumber, like I was afraid of in
the first place. He would textme and ask me to do work stuff
ASAP on holidays. Like, everyonewas off for Memorial Day, and he
texted me that day and told meto do something. Honestly, it
(06:42):
wasn't important, like it couldhave waited. He made it clear
that if I didn't do it that dayright then, I was fired. The
workplace ,for me, startedhaving that walking on
eggshells, feeling, the verysame one I was really accustomed
to from my marriage. He took meoff all the team meetings so
(07:09):
everyone else would go and Iwould be left all by myself in
the office. So these things justkept continuing on every every
chance he had to do something tome. It culminated in them
(07:35):
secretly interviewing for myposition, which I inadvertently
discovered when it was on myboss's calendar. And then them
laying me off and giving me aseverance package with the
(08:00):
condition that I don't talkabout the company.
So I took their hush money, anddidn't talk about it.
I feel safe talking about itnow, because no identifying
information has been given.
Toxic bosses, it turns out, is apretty common experience for a
lot of people. It can feel extrascary because it is your job
(08:25):
that is your source of money, soit feels like your very survival
depends on this person, and thatcan be incredibly traumatic. To
feel like your survival andmaybe your family's survival
depends on the whims of anabusive person, can be
absolutely traumatic.
(08:47):
And the thing I would have toldyounger me that was going
through this, what I would tellanyone working for someone
toxic, is that it is best leave.
Since it is a job, I don'treally recommend making sudden
or grand gesture exits, but juststart to apply for different
jobs. Start to interview atplaces. Start stocking a little
(09:10):
extra savings away. Startgetting ready to make an exit.
If there is a toxic person in aposition of authority, you need
to get out from under them.
Don't linger longer than youhave to because it will cost you
your mental health.
To this day, and it has beenyears, that toxic job
(09:34):
environment still affects me. Istayed in it way longer than I
should have, because we were inthe middle of a pandemic, and I
was afraid that I wouldn't findanother job.
I should have just startedlooking.
I ended up having to do thatanyway, because I saw that they
(09:54):
were sneakily interviewing formy position.
I should have started lookingway sooner than that.
I should have started looking assoon as it became obvious that
it wasn't going to get better.
The less time you linger inthose environments, the better.
(10:30):
Anytime you're in an environmentwhere there is a toxic person in
control and you can leave, youneed to leave. If it's a boss,
you can leave. You can findanother job, even if it pays
less. In my opinion, it is stillbetter take that than to be
under a toxic boss. If it is achurch leader, find another
(10:52):
church. If it is a doctor, findanother doctor. We all know from
being in toxic or abusiverelationships that these
relationships break you down.
They destroy your self esteem.
They traumatize the hell out ofyou. And it isn't different if
that abusive relationship iswith a boss or pastor or anyone
(11:14):
else in a position of power. Forthe sake of your mental health,
as soon as you realize it'stoxic, get out as fast as you
can.
(11:41):
I want to talk about what to doif you can't get out. And this
doesn't really apply to jobs. Alot of people feel stuck in
jobs, but I promise you aren'treally stuck.
(12:03):
There's always options. Youmight not like all of the
options. They might not beideal. But there are always
options. What I'm reallyreferring to is what several
people have expressed to meabout feeling triggered by a
(12:28):
certain Orange Man in a positionof authority right now. Where it
isn't as easy to just leave acountry. It can be done, but it
is a lot more complicated. Sowhat do you do when the person
in charge of your country isgiving you flashbacks of your
abusive relationships? Thesuggestion I would make is to
(12:53):
avoid news, and especially avoid,at all costs, watching the
person who triggers youspeaking. Do not watch any
coverage of him period.
If he triggers you, do not watchhim.
Read about it instead. Do notwatch any clips of him. Myself I
(13:14):
haven't watched the news inyears. I have the news app
removed from my phone becausefor me, my mental health just
does better that way. And I knowa lot of people feel like they
need to consume the news becausethey need to be informed, but I
have to tell you that if it istriggering you, if you are
entering a nervous systemresponse because of it, it is
(13:37):
doing a fuck all for you. Beinginformed does you no good if it
sends you into a free state. Alot of the news sources are so
sensationalized that theyhonestly resemble reality TV
more than they do news. Yearsago, you didn't know the
personal sway and opinions ofyour news anchor, but you do
(14:00):
now.
You aren't getting the news.
You're getting someone'sopinion, and it's being
sensationalized to increaseratings. So if you do feel like
you need to be informed, I wouldhighly recommend finding a new
source that is more boring.
Find somewhere they just statefacts.
(14:21):
Unfortunately, I don't have anysuggestions for places like
that, because I've just swornoff the whole thing. Somehow, I
still know things because peopletalk, but I also can't really
have an educated conversation onit. I don't really need to. I'm
not in charge of public policy.
The most I can do is call myrepresentatives, which I
(14:44):
actually do every day. I use the5calls.org site as they list the
issues that are currently up forreview, and give you the links
to the actual proposed bills andstuff. So you can just read the
Bill instead of what someonetells you about them. So I
actually just use that, but youhave to take care of you. Don't
(15:05):
let anyone pressure you intodoing stuff or staying informed
if you're nervous system isn'tready. If you have to set
boundaries around theconversations you are willing to
have with people right now, thendo that. You are doing your part
by getting your nervous systemwhere it needs to be. Once your
nervous system is in a moreregulated place, then you can
(15:28):
think about adding in sometrusted sources of non
sensationalized news or addingin action steps you might want
to take. You can ask otherpeople for suggestions of non
partisan news sources only afteryour nervous system is ready.
You have time. We have fouryears to go. I promise you, you
(15:51):
have time.
It's okay to look after yournervous system right now.
I promise you also, if thereactually was something really
important that you must knowright now, someone will tell
you.
Pay attention to your body. Yourbody will tell you what it is
(16:11):
ready for right now and what itcan handle.
I encourage you to honor that.
I think it is actually a radicalact to regulate your nervous
system, as abusers thrive onmaking you dysregulated. And
whatever the future does hold,you will be in a better place to
(16:32):
handle it if you have taken careof yourself. Alright, my
friends, that's what I have foryou this week. If there is
something else you want to askme about or have me talk about,
you can send me an email toGerdung melinda@gmail.com
Alright my friends, until nexttime. Be well.
Hey my friends,let's talk about when toxic men
(00:19):
are in positions of power. Thatscenario, unfortunately seems to
happen a lot. When you've comeout of a toxic relationship, it
can be especially triggering. Ithink I've talked about it here
before, but I can't remember forsure, but a few years ago, I
(00:40):
worked for a very abusive man.
It was a small startup typecompany, so there were only
seven of us in total.
The CEO was an incredibly toxicman.
There were clues of that, eventhe initial job interview that I
(01:04):
had, but I kind of just thoughtit was normal, and went ahead
and worked there. And it wasfine for a minute. But then one
day, the CEO, he was leavingearly, and he asked me to text
him when I sent out thisparticular report. So I emailed
(01:28):
out the report, and I rememberedthat he had asked me to text
him. I was hesitant to text himthough. The reason I was
hesitant is that in my previousjob, I had a senior level
manager send me inappropriatesexual harassment texts, and so
at that time, I vowed to myselfthat I would never let another
(01:52):
upper level manager type personhave my personal cell phone. So
if I texted the CEO, then hewould have my personal cell
phone number, and I didn't wanthim to have it just because I
had made that agreement withmyself. So I rationalized to
myself that he got email on hisphone, so he probably saw the
(02:14):
email come in, and it's fine. Ididn't need to text it to him.
But the next day, when I cameinto work, he was pissed. He
sent me an email with everyonein the company copied, saying
that he had asked me to text himwhen the report came out, and I
(02:34):
didn't and what is thedisconnect? I panicked. I
honestly didn't expect it to bethis big of a deal, so I was
just honest with him, and Isaid, Sorry I didn't feel
comfortable texting you on mypersonal cell phone.
He didn't reply to that, but therest of the day, he kept asking
(02:58):
me to do stuff for him, likereally pointless things, things
that when my direct boss saw medoing them for him, he was like,
what are you doing and tellingme, like, not to do it, that it
was stupid. But what my bossdidn't understand is that I had
to do it. Because the CEO wasn'tsending me these things to do
because he needed them done. Hewas doing it because he needed
(03:22):
me to obey him. Because Idisobeyed him once and now he
needed me to obey Him. Likecoming from a toxic
relationship, I could easilyrecognize this wasn't about the
thing he was asking me to do. Itwas about the obedience. So I
did all of the pointless stuffhe asked me to do, and I thought
(03:43):
maybe that would be penanceenough for him. Later in the
day, my boss called me in to hisoffice, and he said that the CEO
had gotten really upset about myresponse to why I didn't text
him. He started asking mequestions, like, had this CEO
ever done anything that made mefeel uncomfortable. And I said
(04:07):
no, I just preferred that myphone number not be had by him.
Because I didn't really want totell my boss about the sexual
harassment at my last job. Ijust I didn't feel comfortable
talking about it with him. Andmy boss proceeded to say that
one of the benefits at thecompany was that they
(04:29):
subsidized, our cell phonebills. And so because I didn't
want the CEO to have my phonenumber, I would no longer be
eligible for that benefit. So Icould either let the CEO have my
cell phone number and keep thebenefit or I could not let him
have it and lose the benefit.
Andat that time, it seemed likeI should just let him have it,
(05:06):
like it seemed like maybe all ofthis would just blow over faster
if he just had the phone number.
So I let him have it. I gave in.
But that wasn't enough.
And HR called me a few dayslater to talk about the
incident. And that was reallyscary for me, like it all felt
(05:30):
like I was in so much trouble,and I was actually shaking and
crying during that call.
And the office we were in was sosmall that I actually overheard
HR call him after they hadinterviewed me about what
happened. Because this idiottook his calls on speaker phone
at full volume in a tiny office.
HR was telling him that didn'treally see a problem, and they
(05:55):
considered this incidentresolved, and I could hear that
he wasn't happy with that. Hewanted me gone. And that was the
beginning of it all, thebeginning of his abuse. Because
it never blew over.
He would bring up the episodeperiodically, just to let me
(06:20):
know that he hadn't forgottenabout it and was still mad about
it. He abused my cell phonenumber, like I was afraid of in
the first place. He would textme and ask me to do work stuff
ASAP on holidays. Like, everyonewas off for Memorial Day, and he
texted me that day and told meto do something. Honestly, it
(06:42):
wasn't important, like it couldhave waited. He made it clear
that if I didn't do it that dayright then, I was fired. The
workplace ,for me, startedhaving that walking on
eggshells, feeling, the verysame one I was really accustomed
to from my marriage. He took meoff all the team meetings so
(07:09):
everyone else would go and Iwould be left all by myself in
the office. So these things justkept continuing on every every
chance he had to do something tome. It culminated in them
(07:35):
secretly interviewing for myposition, which I inadvertently
discovered when it was on myboss's calendar. And then them
laying me off and giving me aseverance package with the
(08:00):
condition that I don't talkabout the company.
So I took their hush money, anddidn't talk about it.
I feel safe talking about itnow, because no identifying
information has been given.
Toxic bosses, it turns out, is apretty common experience for a
lot of people. It can feel extrascary because it is your job
(08:25):
that is your source of money, soit feels like your very survival
depends on this person, and thatcan be incredibly traumatic. To
feel like your survival andmaybe your family's survival
depends on the whims of anabusive person, can be
absolutely traumatic.
(08:47):
And the thing I would have toldyounger me that was going
through this, what I would tellanyone working for someone
toxic, is that it is best leave.
Since it is a job, I don'treally recommend making sudden
or grand gesture exits, but juststart to apply for different
jobs. Start to interview atplaces. Start stocking a little
(09:10):
extra savings away. Startgetting ready to make an exit.
If there is a toxic person in aposition of authority, you need
to get out from under them.
Don't linger longer than youhave to because it will cost you
your mental health.
To this day, and it has beenyears, that toxic job
(09:34):
environment still affects me. Istayed in it way longer than I
should have, because we were inthe middle of a pandemic, and I
was afraid that I wouldn't findanother job.
I should have just startedlooking.
I ended up having to do thatanyway, because I saw that they
(09:54):
were sneakily interviewing formy position.
I should have started lookingway sooner than that.
I should have started looking assoon as it became obvious that
it wasn't going to get better.
The less time you linger inthose environments, the better.
(10:30):
Anytime you're in an environmentwhere there is a toxic person in
control and you can leave, youneed to leave. If it's a boss,
you can leave. You can findanother job, even if it pays
less. In my opinion, it is stillbetter take that than to be
under a toxic boss. If it is achurch leader, find another
(10:52):
church. If it is a doctor, findanother doctor. We all know from
being in toxic or abusiverelationships that these
relationships break you down.
They destroy your self esteem.
They traumatize the hell out ofyou. And it isn't different if
that abusive relationship iswith a boss or pastor or anyone
(11:14):
else in a position of power. Forthe sake of your mental health,
as soon as you realize it'stoxic, get out as fast as you
can.
(11:41):
I want to talk about what to doif you can't get out. And this
doesn't really apply to jobs. Alot of people feel stuck in
jobs, but I promise you aren'treally stuck.
(12:03):
There's always options. Youmight not like all of the
options. They might not beideal. But there are always
options. What I'm reallyreferring to is what several
people have expressed to meabout feeling triggered by a
(12:28):
certain Orange Man in a positionof authority right now. Where it
isn't as easy to just leave acountry. It can be done, but it
is a lot more complicated. Sowhat do you do when the person
in charge of your country isgiving you flashbacks of your
abusive relationships? Thesuggestion I would make is to
(12:53):
avoid news, and especially avoid,at all costs, watching the
person who triggers youspeaking. Do not watch any
coverage of him period.
If he triggers you, do not watchhim.
Read about it instead. Do notwatch any clips of him. Myself I
(13:14):
haven't watched the news inyears. I have the news app
removed from my phone becausefor me, my mental health just
does better that way. And I knowa lot of people feel like they
need to consume the news becausethey need to be informed, but I
have to tell you that if it istriggering you, if you are
entering a nervous systemresponse because of it, it is
(13:37):
doing a fuck all for you. Beinginformed does you no good if it
sends you into a free state. Alot of the news sources are so
sensationalized that theyhonestly resemble reality TV
more than they do news. Yearsago, you didn't know the
personal sway and opinions ofyour news anchor, but you do
(14:00):
now.
You aren't getting the news.
You're getting someone'sopinion, and it's being
sensationalized to increaseratings. So if you do feel like
you need to be informed, I wouldhighly recommend finding a new
source that is more boring.
Find somewhere they just statefacts.
(14:21):
Unfortunately, I don't have anysuggestions for places like
that, because I've just swornoff the whole thing. Somehow, I
still know things because peopletalk, but I also can't really
have an educated conversation onit. I don't really need to. I'm
not in charge of public policy.
The most I can do is call myrepresentatives, which I
(14:44):
actually do every day. I use the5calls.org site as they list the
issues that are currently up forreview, and give you the links
to the actual proposed bills andstuff. So you can just read the
Bill instead of what someonetells you about them. So I
actually just use that, but youhave to take care of you. Don't
(15:05):
let anyone pressure you intodoing stuff or staying informed
if you're nervous system isn'tready. If you have to set
boundaries around theconversations you are willing to
have with people right now, thendo that. You are doing your part
by getting your nervous systemwhere it needs to be. Once your
nervous system is in a moreregulated place, then you can
(15:28):
think about adding in sometrusted sources of non
sensationalized news or addingin action steps you might want
to take. You can ask otherpeople for suggestions of non
partisan news sources only afteryour nervous system is ready.
You have time. We have fouryears to go. I promise you, you
(15:51):
have time.
It's okay to look after yournervous system right now.
I promise you also, if thereactually was something really
important that you must knowright now, someone will tell
you.
Pay attention to your body. Yourbody will tell you what it is
(16:11):
ready for right now and what itcan handle.
I encourage you to honor that.
I think it is actually a radicalact to regulate your nervous
system, as abusers thrive onmaking you dysregulated. And
whatever the future does hold,you will be in a better place to
(16:32):
handle it if you have taken careof yourself. Alright, my
friends, that's what I have foryou this week. If there is
something else you want to askme about or have me talk about,
you can send me an email toGerdung melinda@gmail.com
Alright my friends, until nexttime. Be well.
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