April 6, 2021 • 48 mins
From new artists selecting their target audience, to well-known stars switching up their style, building, maintaining, and even re-working their brand is a major aspect of an artist’s time in the spotlight. In this episode, we speak with the founder of Daemon, a company that offers modern music marketing by implementing a holistic marketing strategy across disciplines, and with executives at Harbor Park Media Company, which provides tailored media and management services to artists. Listen to this episode to hear about their time in the music industry working with artists and carefully curating the perfect image.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay (00:06):
Welcome to the Drop the Mic podcast where we'll dive into
conversations with some of themusic industry's most
established professionals Likeall of our episodes, what you
will hear today has been createdand curated by Stanford students
who are breaking their way intothe music scene.
I'm Jay LeBouef and I leadStanford University's music
industry initiatives.
Whether you're aspiring tolaunch your career in the music
industry are already a musicindustry pro, or just curious to
(00:29):
learn more.
We've got you covered.
Nikita (00:39):
Hello, lovely listeners and a warm welcome to another
episode of Drop the Mic, wheretoday's hot topic is brand
development.
We are Nikita, Alexa and Sophie,and we'll be taking you on a
deep dive, into the marketingsphere of the music industry by
chatting with J Scavo, SamDeCencio, Jimmy Atkinson, and
Conner Camp, who are certifiedpros in the field.
(01:01):
The hard truth is, in thecutthroat world of modern music,
a talent without strategy, evenone with the force of a
supernova, is often doomed tofail.
The most recognizable icons inmusic history were able to
cultivate such a wide followingbecause they gave the public
something to recognize (01:16):
a unique image, a familiar personality,
that special something that setthem miles apart from the crowd.
In other words, a brand.
There is no single perfectformula for creating a powerful
brand.
Just take a look at Beyoncé,whose fans are obsessed with the
luxury and mystery of hersilent, personal life, and
(01:37):
compare that to Cardi B, whorose to fame for her openness,
relatability, and wild sense ofhumor.
Sticking to the same brand fortoo long can also be just as
detrimental as having no brandat all.
That's why the most enduringartists are the ones that
constantly surprise us.
Think Taylor Swift, who has aversatile stream of hit
conceptual albums under her beltor Miley Cyrus, who shocked the
(02:01):
world with her good-girl gonebad, gone briefly good again,
gone super bad eras.
As you can see, branddevelopment is one hell of a
complicated process and that'ssaying the least.
No one knows this better thanour first guest, J Scavo,
founder and CEO of Daemon, whohas dedicated the last 25 plus
(02:21):
years to tailoring comprehensivemarketing campaigns for
countless stars, includingSelena Gomez, Green Day, and
Michael Bublé, just to name afew.
From social media management toe-commerce and merchandising,
he's done it all and got animpressive track record to show
for it.
Without further ado, let's hearwhat the man himself has to say.
(02:41):
Take it away, Sophie.
Sophie (02:43):
Thanks Nikita.
And thank you, Jay, for beinghere with us today.
I can't wait to share all yourincredible knowledge with our
listeners.
Let's start off with a prettybasic question.
What led you to work in themusic industry and more
specifically to what you dotoday in the marketing world?
J Scavo (02:57):
I was in a band in high school.
I wasn't good enough to be thedrummer, so they let me sing.
We played high school partiesand stuff.
I was definitely the worstmember of the band.
Sophie (03:06):
I've always wanted to be part of a band, but I'm not sure
I would have much to contribute.
I've always said I can maybereally bang out some great songs
on the triangle.
That might be it for me.
J Scavo (03:18):
Punk rock made it okay for you to not be good at your
instrument.
Sophie (03:21):
I might have some flute skills left over for middle
school.
I'd have to see.
J Scavo (03:26):
And then I went to college.
I didn't know what I wanted tomajor in.
So I started working at theradio station and then I
answered an ad that showed up inour college paper or maybe in
the station for an intern atIsland Records.
It was amazing, greatexperience, met a lot of people
who I still know.
Summer came, internship ended.
(03:47):
BMG had an internship programthat was paid.
So I did that.
My boss was awesome and she gotpromoted.
There was some room for me tomove from being an intern.
So I was very lucky.
Long before I graduated, I had afull-time job with BMG and I fit
school around it as best Icould.
And soon after that I gotpromoted.
(04:09):
I was in distribution and Ioversaw all the record stores
when record stores were the mainway that people got to music
back in the day, for, I thinkthree or four states.
I went to a lot of shows, as youdo as a young kid, and there was
a band that I really loved andthey didn't have a manager and I
(04:29):
had a pager, which was cool backthen, and I got free postage to
send our tapes out, and a copierfor shows.
We said that we'd do it for oneyear and I was working at BMG at
the same time.
And at the very end of thatyear, like at the last, you
know, week of that year, we gota slot to play South by
(04:52):
Southwest and so it was ourfirst road trip.
And we show up to this place toplay and it was like in the
middle of the day, in this giantroom kind of outside of Austin
and there was literally nobodythere.
So I was like, well, this is it.
Like, we'll do this show.
I'll stop managing you guys.
And you know, we'll have a blastgoing back home and we'll stay
(05:14):
friends and good luck.
And the most incredible thinghappened.
We got a call or something fromInterscope Records, which was
only probably two or three yearsold back then and just the
hottest shit label in LA, youknow, they were super cool.
They were kind of independent.
They had like Nine Inch Nailsand Dr.
Dre.
(05:34):
Crazy, you know?
And they told us this crazystory that they were going to,
somebody else's show, they gotdropped off at the wrong place,
our place, they stuck their headin for like a second, liked what
they heard and got back in thecab and went to the place that
they were going to.
They tracked us down and weended up getting signed there.
(05:54):
I managed bands for eight yearsand it was amazing.
Being a manager is really greatexperience for almost any part
of the record industry, foranybody who's wondering how to
go get an education in therecord industry; I think being a
manager is one of the best forsure, because you're touching
every single facet of thebusiness.
Sophie (06:11):
Right.
J Scavo (06:12):
I wanted a change, so I went to interview at places, I
interviewed at HollywoodRecords, which was the record
company, the frontline companyof the Disney Music Group and
ARTISTdirect, which was probablylike the first big music company
ever.
But, I ended up going toHollywood because the job seemed
(06:34):
way cooler, was head of artistdevelopment.
And that really started likewhat I would consider the
traditional part of my career,where I ran the artist
development deparment ofHollywood for six years, I
think.
It was amazing.
I got my MBA while I was there.
I went to go run MySpaceRecords, which was born after
(06:54):
Fox bought MySpace.
I went back to Disney to runtheir Digital Marketing
Department and then I went toWarner to do the same.
I also ran the merch departmentthe VIP ticketing department,
fan clubs.
And then I went off on my ownand started this Daemon company.
(07:16):
I was lucky enough that I hadsome people call and they needed
some very specific kinds of helpand the help that is difficult
to get outside of a label.
And so it started as a one manjob, now there's three of us,
and I love it.
It's, it's incredible.
Sophie (07:33):
So, what is it that you do at Daemon?
J Scavo (07:37):
So what we do, we're sort of a record company that
people hire to put their recordsout on their own.
So we function much like ageneral manager and a marketing
and a sales team would, if youwere at an indie label or a
major label.
And then we also have born outof necessity a social part of
(07:58):
our company.
So for some of our artists wealso run their social sort of
soup to nuts where we'recalendaring, creating content,
ideating with them, coming upwith things that they should
post, going for best practices,growing their base, figuring out
each new platform as it comesonline.
Is it the right fit for them?
Snap or TikTok or whatever.
Sophie (08:20):
So, how do you think that a brand new artist should
go about creating their brand?
If you were working with someonewho is new to the industry, how
do you come to decisions aboutwhat their brand is going to be,
what their vibe is going to be,and what they're going to be
putting out there for their fansand their audience.
J Scavo (08:39):
That's the million dollar question, man.
Usually, I tell people, even ifyou're making super mainstream
pop, you need to have somethingto say and you need to have a
worldview that's unique and yourown.
And you need to make art thathelps express that worldview.
(08:59):
And maybe it's a worldview thatcan be shared by a lot of
people.
And maybe it's a worldview thatcan just be shared by a few
people, but even a few peoplecan make a career.
You know, a lot of people cansay, but no music is unique,
because everything has beendone, but combining influences
is really a key attribute forpeople that are making cutting
(09:22):
edge music.
And if you can do that and youknow, now it's so easy to get
your music out, but that's juststep one.
Just creating the music isn'tgood enough.
Unless you get really lucky.
There are people who createmusic in their bedroom and
part-time, and somebody at a DSPfinds it and falls in love with
(09:44):
it and puts it on a giantplaylist and you can build a
career like that for sure.
But you have to plan on notbeing lucky and once you create
it and you put it out, what areyou going to do to support it?
What social accounts make senseto you and feel right for your
brand?
What do you put in those socialaccounts?
What are you going to say topeople?
What art do you want to put outthere to represent you?
(10:07):
Do you want people to get toknow you?
Is it super personal?
Is it informal?
Is it arms length and like moremysterious?
Whatever that is, it should fitwith what the music is as well.
A super informal pop or punkband, it would be really awkward
if you went to their Instagramand they were very standoffish
(10:28):
and was just the facts ma'am andthere was no personality there.
It would also be weird if aclassical artist was doing
hashtag contests or whatever.
You need it all to fit into abrand that should be driven by
your worldview and your messageI think a lot of people just
want to put stuff out and thatcould be cool.
So, if you just want to putstuff out and hope that somebody
(10:49):
finds it, that has worked, it'sleaving a lot to chance and it's
pretty rare.
And if you don't want to do thework, and that's why people
often come to us like they justwant to make music and they want
us to do the marketing for them.
That is clearly in a way thatthings can happen as well.
Sophie (11:05):
Right.
So kind of building off of that.
Um, do any particular artistscome to mind when you think of
someone who brands themselvesreally well and is doing a good
job of marketing to their targetaudience?
J Scavo (11:18):
Taylor Swift is like, she's done a marketing, like
doctorate, you know?
Her music and her brand and hermessage is so consistent and so
on point, and it's found areally big audience.
There's probably a thousandTaylor Swift type artists that
(11:39):
never made it.
You know what I mean?
She made it, she put the time inmarketing has always been
important for her.
I assume, I don't know her, Idon't want to like, speak like
me and TayTay hang out often.
But, she's a full fledgedmachine.
The art is incredible.
Her brand is great, it'sconsistent.
Her worldview seems really clearand a bunch of people have
(11:59):
bought into it.
Other bands that come to mind,Linkin Park, who I did have the
pleasure of working with.
Everything seemed consistentwith their sort of worldview in
their art.
They broke a lot of rules whenthey had the opportunity to, and
it worked out well for them.
I think those are the types ofbands and, and commitments to
(12:21):
your art that it's shown thatthey can survive over decades at
this point.
I think a lot more artists noware having singles sort of go
viral, but, really building acareer, and fan base one by one
that can last longer than you'rein a specific playlist is really
what I consider success.
(12:44):
Even the playlisters will tellyou, they really want to
champion artists that can have areal fan base and have merch and
can go tour and have a vibrantsocial profile.
They want the whole package andthose are the artists that have
a shot at getting into the biggame, which is having a years to
(13:05):
decades long career.
Sophie (13:07):
So, naturally, you know, as time goes on, if artists are
having these super long careers,they're bound to change and grow
over that time.
Taylor Swift has had a prettysuccessful rebrand during her
career going from her innocencecountry roots to her new pop
persona.
But, obviously there are a tonof artists who have attempted
that rebrand and have not hadsuccess in that.
(13:30):
So, what do you think makes asuccessful rebrand and how
should an artist go about theirrebrand in order to ensure
success?
J Scavo (13:38):
Again, I don't want to fake like I know anything about
the Taylor camp.
But, as an observer and amarketing person and somebody
who really has a profound levelof respect for her and what
she's built, her songs, whetherthey were the earlier country
stuff or the pop stuff areundeniable, like the songs are
(13:59):
great.
And the subject matter from herearlier records to her later
records, the words might bedifferent, but the sort of
worldview and the stuff thatshe's singing about is pretty
consistent.
She's always been a strongbeliever in herself and the
(14:20):
power of women.
And that's only grown throughoutthe years.
That that was the thing that didnot shift when the music
shifted.
I do feel like her rebrand waspretty slow.
I mean, every album, she likelayered a little bit more pop
into what she was doing.
(14:40):
She did it because she speakstrue to her brand.
The music was undeniable, butthe tracks themselves were
undeniable and her fans were sostrong that they came with her
along that journey.
I also think that she got a lotof young fans and, like her,
young fans grow up and whatyou're into at 13 isn't even
(15:02):
cool when you're 14, much lesswhen you're 18.
I do feel like for a legion ofkids they kind of grew up in
with her.
She just kept delivering hits tothem, whether it was when
they're 28 or when they were 18.
That's special, you know, Idon't know many other artists
(15:23):
who have done that.
A lot of times fans freak outwhen people change their style
or whatever, but I would counterand say only special bands, like
The Ramones can make the samesounding album over and over and
over again and get away with it.
Sophie (15:41):
That's really great insight.
You've said that you've had kindof established artists going to
TikTok if it suits their brand.
Lately on TikTok a lot of peoplehave been blowing up just like
songs going absolutely viraljust with people, you know,
playing the guitar in theirbedroom.
Do you have any thoughts onTikTok as a starting point for a
(16:02):
new artist in terms of buildingtheir brand beginning on TikTok
and how that can potentially bemoved into the larger industry
and kind of start a career fromthere?
J Scavo (16:13):
So on TikTok there's two different sort of things
that happen.
One is there are someTikTokerswho regularly publish who
understand the editing mechanicsof the platform, who make great
content, who also do music.
Right?
(16:33):
And then there's usually peoplewho aren't on TikTok, musicians,
who have a song or a hook thatgets virally picked up as a
sound that a bunch of people endup using.
And it's really, um, difficultfor what I would consider a
regular band to become aTikToker and really publish a
(16:53):
lot of content often trying tobe relevant on the platform,
jump into other trendinghashtags, do other people's
stuff, because usually whenyou're a musician, the music is
your life.
You don't want to have to listento other people's songs or cover
other people's songs.
You just want to do your ownsongs.
You have to sort of be smartabout the other content that you
(17:16):
place in TikTok surrounding youroriginal work to get people
there for the reasons thatpeople like TikTok.
Whether it's funny or it's deepor it's insightful.
These posts that you have tomake that don't really feature
your music.
They have to be there too to getthe people in the door where
(17:36):
then you can drop your, youplaying in your bedroom your own
song or whatever.
But it is important, especiallywhen you're starting out, to
think about there are songs thatget picked up and go viral and
that could launch a career, orif you're inspired by the
platform and you understand thatediting piece of it, that's so
important, you can commit tolike really being a TikToker,
(17:58):
who's focused on music andbreaking through that way.
And I think in that sense, it'sa fantastic forum.
Sophie (18:04):
Awesome.
So this last one is probably onethat you get a lot, I would
think, but I think it's a goodway to leave our listeners with
something.
So, what advice do you have forany of our listeners who want to
follow in your footsteps on thispath in the industry?
J Scavo (18:22):
Here's what I'd say.
If you want to really work inthe record business on the
business side, and frankly, aswell as on the artist side, you
definitely should not have aPlan B.
There are a line of people mileslong dying to work in the music
industry because it feeds theirpassion.
I think the arts inspires thatin people.
(18:42):
And just know that that's yourcompetition: people who would do
anything, work for free foryears just to get into the door.
It's really hard.
People are really shrewd.
People are really smart.
Usually the shrewdest and thesmartest are the ones that
survive.
I would say, if you want to dothis, you need to find whatever
(19:04):
you can do, work for whoever youcan, make any connection you
can.
Everything on your resume makesa difference.
Whether that's helping out atyour local club, being part of a
high school club, managing afriend's band, working at a
record store, all that makes adifference and can lead up to
something like a job at a labelor a management company.
Sophie (19:26):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
That is great advice.
I just want to thank you onemore time for being here with
us.
Your insight and your advice isso appreciated and is worth so
much.
So just thank you again forbeing here.
Great to talk to you.
J Scavo (19:42):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Nikita (19:44):
Well, there you have it! One glance at J Scavo's
extensively-packed LinkedInprofile or his polished company
website may have you feelingextremely intimidated, but
hopefully this conversationproves that everyone starts from
humble beginnings, and anyonecan become a big player in the
music industry if they forgeconnections, take risks, and
keep their wits about them.
(20:06):
Still having doubts?
Maybe our next guests, Sam,Jimmy, and Andrew, the brains
behind the up-and-coming HarborPark Media Company can hit a
little closer to home and be abit more convincing.
Their story is definitely aninspiring one.
Amidst the chaos and uncertaintyof the year 2020, they birthed
their entreprise from a tinyapartment in Philadelphia, where
(20:29):
they were living as ambitiouscollege kids, just like us, with
an insatiable love for music,especially towards the bands
they thought weren't receivingthe exposure they deserved.
Harbor Park provides a vastarray of content services from
promotional photography shootsto fully fleshed video
production.
With their more relaxed andintimate approach to branding,
(20:50):
which prioritizes the artist'screative control when
collaborating on ideas, we cancertainly see them going far,
which is why we jumped at theopportunity to interview them.
I'll hand it over to Alexa.
Alexa (21:03):
Thank you guys all for joining.
I'm so excited to talk with youabout Harbor Park and the media
and entertainment industry andmusic industry more generally.
My first question is how didHarbor Park Media Company come
about in the first place?
Sam Decencio (21:20):
Um, so I guess technically I started Harbor
Park, obviously Jimmy and,Connor were doing video stuff
way before that media stuff.
But, uh, the idea came to me andmy one roommate, so well,
backstory Harbor Park isactually made out of five
owners.
There's me, Jimmy, Connor andtwo more.
(21:44):
There's our friend Jack Ballardand my roommate, one of my
roommates, Andrew at college.
And the idea originally came towhen me and Andrew, like one
night we were sorta just, weboth love music, especially sort
of like the indie alternative,like wave, I guess, garage rock.
And we just, we found a bandthat was a bit smaller.
(22:07):
From our area.
And we were like, wow, we reallylike these guys.
We're like, why aren't theyfamous?
Like they deserve to be famous.
So then we sort of just almostsort of like, that's what we
should sort of do, like helpbands manage them, promote them
to try to get them to one day befamous.
Alexa (22:23):
So very artist-focused, like getting them out there,
getting their names out there.
I saw from your website, Samthat you are the head of
business development, Jimmy,you're creative director and
Connor, what's your role?
Connor Kamp (22:37):
Officially I'm the head of content.
Alexa (22:39):
So can you, can you talk a little bit about what each of
those roles entail?
Sam Decencio (22:44):
I'll start off sort of as head of business
development, almost just sort ofoverseeing Harbor Park and just
like, obviously moving forward,things we want to to focus on
just like overall viewpoint.
I will say I also, like,obviously everyone has a title,
but it's sort of almost loose weall work together on things,
although like definitely Connorand Jimmy are more, they know a
(23:07):
lot more about like the videostuff and the media side.
So that's sort of why we havethese titles, but I got, like I
said, I also like to help a lotwith like promotion and
marketing as well.
Alexa (23:18):
What about you guys?
Jimmy Atkinson (23:20):
So in terms of talent relations and talking, I
think my, my title is set up islike creative director, head of
talent relations or somethingalong those lines.
I mean, I think full disclosurewe were just tossing out titles
at the beginning to see whatwould stick, but, uh, also in
terms of responsibilities, Ithink it, uh, you know, I think
it's pretty spot on a lot of thetalent relations thing is, is
(23:40):
just kind of keeping up withartists, keeping in contact with
them, letting them know, like,you know, we're still working
behind the scenes, whether ornot we're, You know, in contact
all week with them, like it'sstill good to be in touch with
them.
Um, a lot of it was reaching outto bands and recruiting people
early on.
So a lot of it was like straightup social media DM-ing and uh, a
lot of just grunt work to tryto, you know, explain the
(24:03):
company, the idea to people.
And then, and then from there,hope they like sign on but in
terms of town relations, I thinklike most of that is, is
essentially just kind of keepingup and keeping in contact with
these people that we're workingwith.
Connor Kamp (24:16):
As far as like head of content goes and I've been
doing media creation for yearsand years, and it's something
I'm really passionate about andsomething Jimmy and I work well
together on.
And so, Yeah, I'm taking thehelm as far as, um, photography
and music, video shoots and, uh,you know, any other content that
we might produce and, um, andjust, you know, seeing that
(24:37):
through.
Alexa (24:38):
Yeah.
Awesome.
So the focus of this episode ofthe podcast is artists brand
development.
I'm wondering how you guys thinkbrand new artists should go
about creating a brand for themselves.
And if you're working withsomeone new to the industry, how
do you and the artists come todecisions about what their brand
is going to be?
You know, do you leave it up tothe artist or do you guys take
more of a concrete role in thatprocess?
Jimmy Atkinson (25:01):
I'll take this one.
If you guys don't mind.
I think the best example that wecould use talking about brand
right now, uh, in terms of ourartists is this guy, Javie
Bahama, who, uh, we're out hereworking with.
We're actually going to meet upwith him tonight to shoot some
pictures and just get to knowhim kind of thing.
But, um, his brand right awayin, in terms of artist's brand,
a lot of the things that we lookfor is like their casual,
(25:23):
actual, genuine personality.
And like, that was a big thingthat we really liked about Javie
was, that he has this supergenuine, like Instagram page
where he'll just casually postslike memes and stuff.
And we just think that thatlike, right away.
The idea was that he didn'treally have a brand.
He was like being himself.
And that, that would be a loteasier to promote if we weren't
(25:44):
like forcing this because wewere working with another band,
from another country.
I won't name them because we'renot working with them anymore,
they had different ideas abouttheir brand and, and kinda, and
different ideas about how fastand how hard promotion-wise and
stuff when I think our opinionis in, in this kind of genre of
(26:04):
music and the indie scene thiscasual vibe that, that Javie's
got going this genuine, like lowkey low effort kind of like
brand is, uh, it fits the musicand it fits the, the, you know,
social media, we're big onsocial media content, especially
if it's, if it's like justgenuine, like posts that the
(26:25):
band or the artists like wouldactually post and not, we don't,
we don't want stuff to feelforced, you know?
So I think, um, Javie Bahama isa great example of brand and,
and, uh, how we build brandswith people.
And that was really just a lotof hands-off like, hey, Javie,
keep doing your thing.
Alexa (26:41):
So would you say it's more like you guys seek out
these people who are, as yousay, really accessible, really
down to earth and, authentic,or, do you maybe see potential
in an artist and then help themrealize that in themselves?
Sam Decencio (26:58):
Yeah, I would say that like, so our big thing for
us is I know there's some likemanagement, like media companies
out there that will just workanyone and everyone.
Especially, like, obviously wewould do music video for almost
anyone, but like when it comesto like people we want to work
with and manage and like be withfor a while, like the number one
thing for us is like theirmusic.
It's like something that we likehave to like, and like really
(27:22):
appreciate and think that otherpeople will appreciate it.
And we feel like that's the bestway to sort of promote.
And on top of that with, um,like branding every, like, if
your music's good, in myopinion, and you have like a,
just a nice genuine presence, Ithink people really like dig
that in this day and age.
Alexa (27:41):
Can you guys think of examples of artists who fit that
bill, who you think, havereally, you know, good music to
back it up, but have alsobranded themselves well and
authentically?
Jimmy Atkinson (27:52):
Uh, Boy Pablo.
I think Boy Pablo in terms of,uh, I mean, they kind of exist
like in our space of like theindie alternative scene and, uh,
I mean, they blew up quickbecause of YouTube and then what
that's like a, 18 year oldChilean slash Finnish kid.
And, and like, Yeah.
It's, it's great music.
And, uh, and their music videosare just on point it's this
(28:15):
whole brand of you know, uh, heis, he's a kid like, like he's
18 or 19, so it's very you know,youthful and fun, but you would
have to watch his music videos.
I think his music, these arefantastic, but that's a, that's
a great idea that I would, or agreat example.
I'd love to, for a brand.
Sam Decencio (28:30):
I'd say another artist as well, like one I
personally like Day Glo, Iforget his real name, but he's
like a relatively new artist.
And like, he just was a collegestudent, Texas, and I'd say
probably a year and a half ago,he started like releasing,
released his first album.
And now so many people know him.
And I will say on top of thathis music videos that are really
(28:51):
creative.
And like it just sort of is agenuine sort of fun happy music
video, which I think a lot offans, like.
Alexa (28:59):
So, we're talking about these people who have kind of
blown up, Jimmy, you weretalking about blowing up on
YouTube.
And before we started recording,I know we were talking a little
bit about Tik Tok and how, youknow, maybe you guys are veering
away from that sphere, but I'dlove to talk a little bit about
Tik Tok as this kind of famegenerator.
Recently, we've seen a rise ofartists using the app to build
(29:22):
their brands.
Have you worked with any artistswho are using Tik Tok to promote
themselves?
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat experience and how do you
feel about the platform as astarting point for artists and
as a marketing method forartists who are already
established?
Jimmy Atkinson (29:35):
The perfect question, Sam, you want to talk
senior year?
Sam Decencio (29:37):
Yeah.
Um, so we're actually very bigTik Tok people, honestly.
And I, we think, I think thatit's probably one of the best
ways to like, go about just freepromotion now for bands,
especially, um, one of ourclients is a band called senior
year who we found, well, I thinkI, maybe Jimmy found them, but
we sent it to each other, but itwas like before they had
(29:59):
actually released any music.
So right now they have only onesong released, but we found them
right before and we were justlike, wow, these guys are really
good.
And like on top of that, goingback to the genuine, like
personality, presence, they arejust like, we just like, they
sound like really cool guys.
So I just reached out to them.
And after a couple meetings wewere like, they fit really well
with us.
Jimmy Atkinson (30:18):
Yeah.
They, they hit like 50,000streams on a, on a Tik TOK
before they even released anymusic.
I think it was just like, it wasa nice riff that they had that
they were practicing and it waslike, um, music dropping soon,
like kind of like a little bitof like, they were promoing
themselves without even kind ofrealizing that they were
promoing themselves.
It was like a genuine post, butit blew up and we were like, yo,
these guys are accidentally goodat marketing themselves, they
(30:42):
haven't even come out withanything yet.
And they're already buildinglike a fanbase on Tik Tok.
Sam Decencio (30:46):
Yeah.
The singer and I think, yeah,singer/guitarist, Simon.
He was like the one who puttheir band because he like had a
Tik TOK himself originally.
And like, he would just postguitar stuff on there and
started like getting a bunch offollowers.
It was like, our band has to dothis too.
So that's sort of like the waythey went about it, which I
definitely think is a smartthing to do if you're a new
(31:06):
band.
Connor Kamp (31:08):
Tik TOK is a great tool.
I think there's no doubt aboutthat.
I think it's easy to loseyourself and maybe lose sight of
what you're trying to accomplishwith Tik Tok.
Sam Decencio (31:17):
I mean, there's just like the small, little,
like factors as well that like,if you especially using like
your own music that you'vereleased, like as a sound,
there's just always a chancethat for some reason they can
just blow up.
Jimmy Atkinson (31:28):
I think uh Tik Tok its kind of randomness like
its volatility is definitelylike a little like worrying in
terms of like promoting, Ithink, a cool thing, that like
both, it's hard from our end,like our business end, but it's
also pretty cool about Tik Tokis that like, I think it's very
hard to make something just blowup, like un-genuinely.
(31:49):
Like I think things genuinelyblow up if they're like
genuinely enjoyed on Tik Tokwhen on a lot of other social
medias, like if you pump enoughmoney or pump enough, like views
into it, like it'll just, youknow, it'll get enough views.
But I think with Tik Tok, likeand our approach to Tik Tok has
been just kind of telling ourartists and you know,
encouraging them to get on TikTok and just be themselves, like
(32:09):
not really force any Tik Toks,like put their music in there
and then just, you know, dosomething like casual, like just
do you know, something that youwould actually do and don't try
to force it because I think youcan tell when it's trying to be
forced.
And I think Tik Tok itself aslike a, as a social media is
like stuff won't really work, ifyou're like, you're trying to
(32:29):
force music onto the Zoomerkids.
Like, they're not gonna, they'renot gonna take that.
Sam Decencio (32:33):
My last sort of, comment about it, just like to
piggyback off that it's like,sort of a behind the scenes,
almost of like a band, manypeople will like an artist, but
like Tik Tok and actually behindthe scenes of like, how they
genuinely are, and like howJimmy said, just something that
you like post on that youwouldn't normally do.
Cause I mean, your fans willprobably like that.
Alexa (32:52):
That's so true.
It's like they can stream yourmusic and follow you, watch your
videos.
But they will also want to getto know you guys as people.
Right?
So, so they want to go behindthe scenes as well.
So, um, can you guys talk alittle bit about if you haven't
already, the artists that you'veworked with or artists that
you've worked with, who havemade the greatest impact on your
careers?
Jimmy Atkinson (33:13):
You can go, you can go a couple of directions
with this one.
Um, I would say, I mean, the,the artists to me, uh, right off
the bat, like getting our firstartists was a spectacular
feeling like getting, um, it wasPhoto Negative, right, Sam?
Sam Decencio (33:28):
Yeah, our first meeting with a band and our
first actual band that we signedthat night.
Jimmy Atkinson (33:35):
Yeah.
And that was uh, to me, it wasjust right away.
It was like, damn.
Like we have, you know, itkinda, it kinda made me realize
like, we're we have something tooffer to bands and that you
know, bands are interested inthis idea of, because
essentially what we wereoffering them is like free
promotion and free marketing.
Like, that was kind of how wegot our foot in the door.
It was to be able to like go tothese bands and be like, hey,
(33:57):
like, you know, we'll work foryou.
We'll do whatever you need.
Like, we can talk money later,like about media, um,
performances and, and, you know,making a music video or
something.
But until then, like let's justattach our names together and
let's like, and we'll promoteyou and blah, blah, blah.
And I think, um, getting PhotoNegative was through like a
friend of a friend, um, at, atBoston college and, um, you
(34:19):
know, once we got them on it andonce we were talking to them and
I think realizing that they werelike genuine college kids like
us and you know, just normal funguys who were really into music,
same way we are, that's kindawhen I realized like, oh, this
can like really work, like thiscan, there's a lot of bands out
there like these people that youknow, are like us and love music
and, uh, are open to having morehelp.
(34:40):
And so, I mean, that, that wasthe greatest that-- we're still
real young.
So I guess, uh, we haven'treally had any artists like
really affect us, but I thinkfirst getting the couple ones on
board was, was, was awesome.
Connor Kamp (34:53):
Yeah so I mean, Jimmy did touch on this at the
end.
We like are still definitelygetting off the ground and it is
somewhat difficult because ourartists are literally all over
the country.
And, um, so working face-to-facewith them is not always the
easiest, but I'm really lookingforward to this meeting that
Jimmy and I are, Jimmy justmentioned, um, with Javie
Bahama, one of our artists.
And, uh, we're doing thattonight.
And I think that's going to bereally great to just kind of get
(35:15):
a feel for how he works and likehis creative process and how he
is as a person, even more sothan like, cause we've had quite
a few phone calls with him andhe's great.
But you know, just being able tointeract with him in person is
going to be awesome.
And um, and I think that that'sprobably like going to be the
first step in building a reallymeaningful creative relationship
with this guy.
Alexa (35:36):
So this is your first time meeting him face to face.
Jimmy Atkinson (35:40):
Yeah.
Connor Kamp (35:42):
Great guy, uh, he's got this incredible film camera
called, uh NISHIKA n8,000, Ibelieve is what it's called.
And it's what, um, it's whatpeople use for those-- you can
do it on your phone with an app,and it's like a parallax photo
where it like shifts.
We're going to do some shotswith that.
And then I've got my camera andwe'll do some, we've been, you
know, uh, talking about ideasfor like a Tiny Desk Concert or
(36:04):
like something like that that wecould use to promote his music.
So we'll see how it goes.
Sam Decencio (36:08):
Definitely agree with everything they've said a,
um, another client they haven'treally touched on yet is, um,
Deep Sea Peach Tree, one of ourclients as well.
And it's sort of just like thething about them is they've
probably established themselvesmore.
They've been around for a fewyears, few years now.
Than like our other clients, butlike, they're just also all of
(36:29):
our, one of our favorite artistsand just like, absolutely loved
their music.
So just like being able to workwith them, it's just like a
great thing is makes me excitedto like be a part of Harbor
Park.
Jimmy Atkinson (36:39):
Yeah.
We, we spent the whole summerlistening to this band, like
before the idea of Harbor Parkcame around, we spent the whole
summer and like last year, too,just like listening to this
band.
And once we kind of started, wewere like, yo, down the line,
let's hit, you know, Deep SeaPeach Tree up.
And then three months later, wedid and it worked.
And like, that was, that waspretty surreal.
Connor Kamp (36:59):
With Harbor park it's like all these artists that
we have, like we're genuinelyfans of their music.
We wouldn't work with them if wedidn't like really love what
they were doing.
And so it makes it that mucheasier to like build
relationships with them becausewe already loved their music.
Alexa (37:10):
I'm hearing this repeated theme of you don't want to be
kind of just like an open door,like we'll work with anyone.
You want to be a little moreselective about the artists that
you work with.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout why you use that approach
as opposed to kind of being morelike we'll work with anyone?
Sam Decencio (37:29):
I'm not sure, like I would work with like anyone.
I just, I don't think I'd like,sort of be able to say,'cause at
some points, like if I'm workingwith someone, I don't really
like enjoy their music as much.
And they're like pushing me andthey're, they're asking us, why
is this not getting enoughrecognition?
I wouldn't really be able totell them it's not good enough.
So I guess just a really goodadvantage of-- like everyone
would work at like, they'll sendme like a new song or send us
(37:52):
some new songs, or a thingthey're releasing and I'll be
like, that's a really good song.
You should release that.
So, um, I think that's morelike, that's my reasoning to why
I like to be a little selective.
It's just,'cause it almost likemakes our job easier.
Jimmy Atkinson (38:07):
Yeah I would agree.
I think that the whole likeselective idea is like, we're
selective, but, but just kind oflike out of preference, like
it's not really like-- we'reopen to working with everybody.
Like, I mean, you know, we wantmoney and we want, we want to
work.
You know, the ideas that wecould do media for, for anybody,
but like, there's this nextlevel of partnership in which
(38:28):
like, you know, we're workingHarbor Park and this band.
And like for that, that's likean extended relationship.
That's when the talent relationsI guess, will come in.
I think like bottom line is,like I think for us, like in
order to feel like the, thepassion and like the constant
drive, it needs to be somebodylike, we really believe in and
that's not to say that like aband could come up to us like,
hey, can you work with us?
(38:48):
And we'd be like, no, you suck.
Like, it's more just like, wereally sought out these specific
bands we're working with becauseyou know, their music is
incredible.
And it's like, if we, I think ifwe really believe in the product
that we're pushing, it makes ita lot easier to, to do all the
promotion, all the grunt workand stuff.
Because I think a lot ofpromotion, a lot of marketing
feels very fake.
(39:09):
Like I like, I keep using theword genuine, but like, I think
that's a big focus for us, is todo very, natural promotion.
Like let people find the musicwho are going to enjoy the
music.
Don't push the music onto peoplewho are not in the demographic
or not in the, in the genre.
So I, I think for us to, to youknow, pursue this like genuine
(39:30):
goal, um, it helps to work withbands that we like actually
listen to.
Alexa (39:35):
If you had to choose an artist you've worked with who
you think you've made thegreatest impact on their career,
who would it be and why?
Jimmy Atkinson (39:45):
I mean, I think Photo Negative would probably be
my choice.
I think, um, I think it was, uh,like in terms of impact that
we've had on their career sofar, I think, um, in this very
early stage, the biggest impactwe could point to, is just kind
of showing people that likethere's interest in their music,
like a lot of the bands and alot of the artists that we
talked to, were surprised whenwe DM them, like, that's awesome
(40:07):
you guys are listening to mystuff out on the East coast or
like, wow, like you got merch?
Like that's crazy.
And it was just, it was alwaysfunny to us because like, dude,
like your songs are amazing.
Like, what do you mean?
Why are you surprised aboutthis?
And so I think, um, early on,especially with Photo Negative,
like it's a student band, abunch of kids our age, Boston
college.
I don't think they ever reallyexpected anything like this.
And I think it kind of pushedthem into like go mode a little
(40:30):
bit.
Like they got recording again.
They started you know, gettingready, like they got the whole
band together and all that.
And I think once they see that,like that's the biggest effect
that I think I can point to isthat like, just them seeing
that, there's a team full ofpeople that are passionate about
the industry and passionateabout their music who are
willing to help them out forfree pretty much.
Sam Decencio (40:49):
I was actually gonna say pretty much exactly
everything that Jimmy just saidthe, yeah, like the biggest
impact may not just be likegetting, they-- we promoted
them, like they are like a nextlevel now, but just the fact
that they were like, I just, I'mreally happy, someone else like
likes our music.
It was just like the push theyneeded like more motivation.
(41:10):
I mean, like due to COVID, Imean, probably due to COVID they
hadn't released a song in like,uh, a year or two since the
original like EP.
So that was like a nice push forthem in this winter.
And now they're all backtogether at school.
I like caught up with themmultiple times and they've just
been all really excited.
They've been like recordingstuff.
They send me a couple of newsongs they have that they're
planning on releasing.
(41:30):
So, I mean, everything's goingpretty well with them.
Alexa (41:33):
How has COVID impacted you guys and what you guys are
doing?
Jimmy Atkinson (41:38):
So we were, we were kind of born out of COVID
we, um, I think COVID, uh, was,was, because a lot of our focus
when we first kinda got togetherwas like, so like, things are
going to start opening back upwithin you know, we got together
in like October and LLC and allthen we were hoping it'd be, you
know, COVID would be gone byaround now, but no, we got, we
(41:59):
got a couple more months, but, Ithink, I think us meeting
together and coming together inthis space, especially in a time
where like with COVID a lot ofpromotion and a lot of like,
like, I mean there's no liveperformances.
We see a lot of bands doing likeonline Zoom performances and
stuff.
And I think, um, like werecognized that that was a very
good opportunity to hop intothis space and become new
(42:22):
players in it because you don'treally, you, we didn't have to
know anybody.
Like we didn't have to like showup anything.
It was all DMS.
It was all like, just hittingpeople up and building a brand
for ourselves and, and buildingthe website and just kind of
presenting ourselves as ready todo this.
And, and I think that COVID wasa big part of that because like,
without all these bands online,like trying to do promotion and
(42:44):
trying to do, you know theirband stuff, but like in an
online sphere, uh, it would'vebeen harder to get into it.
And I think it would have beenharder to get, you know, bands
on board to work with us.
So I think, you know, I thinkCOVID, you know, was a, was a
benefit on our side.
Alexa (43:01):
So you've obviously said that you guys are new, you're
getting off the ground, but I'mwondering, is there something
that you have learned that youwish you had known starting out?
Jimmy Atkinson (43:10):
That's a great question.
Sam Decencio (43:11):
I mean, I just have a smaller thing.
Something that I learned when weoriginally were able to work
something out with Deep SeePeach Tree and like they became
an official client, was that, Idon't know.
It was like, sort of just that,like anyone-- it's not like
where we were always, like atthe time, limiting ourselves to
like really kind of smallerbands that are just starting
off.
But like the thing was that,like I realized, like anyone
(43:31):
could be a client.
And reaching out to people, likethe worst that's going to happen
is they're just going to belike, sorry, no, like,
everyone's really cool like inthis music community that
they're not just going to--they're not going to be like,
no, why would we want to workwith you?
Like, that's so stupid.
It's just like, they're justlike, sorry, no, thanks.
Uh, so that's like like what Ilearned from the very beginning.
Jimmy Atkinson (43:53):
I think, um, what I would point to is like,
yeah, along the same lines, is Imean, I think early on when we
were first jumping into Zoomcalls with bands and stuff, I
was like intimidated going intothem.
And I think, uh, I remember Samand I like sitting on my couch,
right next to each other, justlike kind of putting on our
business faces for a band andspending like 50 minutes
straight, like just likerattling off like long business
(44:15):
sounding stuff.
Looking back at it, um, a lot--yeah.
I think like the number onething I learned is that like,
it's, it's easier than you thinkit would be.
Like, everyone's very genuine,like what Sam's talking about.
These people are passionateabout music and I think a
certain kind of quality, like apersonality trait that comes
with being passionate aboutmusic is that like, you know,
(44:36):
they're just creatively open,and they're open to ideas and
they're open to talking topeople and they especially love
when we love their music.
Like, and so I think that's,that's what I've learned is that
it's like really good vibesaround here.
Like, and I think going into it,I probably would have expected
that the music industry is alittle grimy.
Like I remember saying that alot at the very beginning, it is
(44:56):
grimy, but I think where we arein this space and in this sphere
of, of like, like this genre ofmusic, I think the vibe is
perfect.
And I think the people are nice.
Alexa (45:07):
Do you think that, that, this kind of, uh, more indie
folk rock sphere is differentfrom, from, you know other
spheres in meaningful ways?
Like, like you, you kind ofalluded to the people are really
nice and really open.
Do you think that that'sspecific to this genre?
Jimmy Atkinson (45:26):
Yeah, and, and I, I think, um, cause I know, I
know your focus is brand, right?
So I, I think, um, I think brandgoes hand in hand with garage
rock.
Like I, I think there's like aninherent brand in this, in this,
you know, music scene where it'sindie music, so nobody's really
blowing up.
Like if you're at the top of thegame, like you're getting maybe
like a million, a couple ofstreams on, on some of your
(45:46):
songs and I, I think with thatbeing the case, it's not very
corporate.
It's, it's, it's a lot of justgenuine people doing, like
making the music they genuinelyenjoy making and, and like just
posting dumb stuff on Instagramrather than like having a social
media manager, blah, blah, blah,and I think, um, the space
itself, just kinda, yeah.
It lends itself to this brandof, of casual, like music making
(46:09):
and genuine passion for the art.
And yeah, it's carried over toeverybody we've met so far too.
It's like a lot of, a lot ofbands or a lot of artists seem
like they don't really careabout making it or getting more
streams.
They're just happy with themusic they make.
And I think that's like abeautiful thing.
Like I think that's wonderful.
Alexa (46:27):
So where can our listeners find you guys online,
on social media?
Where can they listen to yourartists' music?
Jimmy Atkinson (46:34):
So harborparkmedia.com has got all
our info, all of our bands, all,all the music there.
There's a playlist on there too.
And that's got every song by aHarbor Park artist compiled
together.
Fantastic playlist, highlyrecommend.
Sam Decencio (46:47):
It's under Jimmy's account, but yeah.
And I was going to say, youalso, if you go-- our, uh,
Instagram's the same thing,Harbor Park Media, you can see
all the bands that we manage andtheir Instagram accounts and
everything, find a way to theirmusic as well.
Jimmy Atkinson (47:00):
Also, our Instagram accounts are on there
too.
Alexa (47:03):
All right.
Well, thank you guys so much forspeaking with me today.
I learned so much about what amedia company entails and how
you guys visualize brands andabout the genre of, of garage
rock that I didn't know existedbefore today.
So thank you.
Nikita (47:19):
And that's a wrap! In summary, the inspiring
individuals in this episode makeit clear that there is no right
time or method for gettinginvolved in the music biz you
just have to get up, keepgetting up and go for it.
We would just like to expressour heartfelt thanks to J and
the Harbor Park team once again,for taking the time to sit down,
discuss with us, and answer ourburning questions.
(47:42):
Lastly, we hope that you, thelistener gained some valuable
insight into the intricate anddemanding field of brand
development, as well as anewfound respect for the people
behind the scenes who carefullyconstruct, curate, maintain, and
update all the things about yourbeloved artists that make them
so lovable.
Best of luck in all yourendeavors and we hope to see you
(48:03):
next time.
Welcome to the Drop the Mic podcast where we'll dive into
conversations with some of themusic industry's most
established professionals Likeall of our episodes, what you
will hear today has been createdand curated by Stanford students
who are breaking their way intothe music scene.
I'm Jay LeBouef and I leadStanford University's music
industry initiatives.
Whether you're aspiring tolaunch your career in the music
industry are already a musicindustry pro, or just curious to
(00:29):
learn more.
We've got you covered.
Nikita (00:39):
Hello, lovely listeners and a warm welcome to another
episode of Drop the Mic, wheretoday's hot topic is brand
development.
We are Nikita, Alexa and Sophie,and we'll be taking you on a
deep dive, into the marketingsphere of the music industry by
chatting with J Scavo, SamDeCencio, Jimmy Atkinson, and
Conner Camp, who are certifiedpros in the field.
(01:01):
The hard truth is, in thecutthroat world of modern music,
a talent without strategy, evenone with the force of a
supernova, is often doomed tofail.
The most recognizable icons inmusic history were able to
cultivate such a wide followingbecause they gave the public
something to recognize (01:16):
a unique image, a familiar personality,
that special something that setthem miles apart from the crowd.
In other words, a brand.
There is no single perfectformula for creating a powerful
brand.
Just take a look at Beyoncé,whose fans are obsessed with the
luxury and mystery of hersilent, personal life, and
(01:37):
compare that to Cardi B, whorose to fame for her openness,
relatability, and wild sense ofhumor.
Sticking to the same brand fortoo long can also be just as
detrimental as having no brandat all.
That's why the most enduringartists are the ones that
constantly surprise us.
Think Taylor Swift, who has aversatile stream of hit
conceptual albums under her beltor Miley Cyrus, who shocked the
(02:01):
world with her good-girl gonebad, gone briefly good again,
gone super bad eras.
As you can see, branddevelopment is one hell of a
complicated process and that'ssaying the least.
No one knows this better thanour first guest, J Scavo,
founder and CEO of Daemon, whohas dedicated the last 25 plus
(02:21):
years to tailoring comprehensivemarketing campaigns for
countless stars, includingSelena Gomez, Green Day, and
Michael Bublé, just to name afew.
From social media management toe-commerce and merchandising,
he's done it all and got animpressive track record to show
for it.
Without further ado, let's hearwhat the man himself has to say.
(02:41):
Take it away, Sophie.
Sophie (02:43):
Thanks Nikita.
And thank you, Jay, for beinghere with us today.
I can't wait to share all yourincredible knowledge with our
listeners.
Let's start off with a prettybasic question.
What led you to work in themusic industry and more
specifically to what you dotoday in the marketing world?
J Scavo (02:57):
I was in a band in high school.
I wasn't good enough to be thedrummer, so they let me sing.
We played high school partiesand stuff.
I was definitely the worstmember of the band.
Sophie (03:06):
I've always wanted to be part of a band, but I'm not sure
I would have much to contribute.
I've always said I can maybereally bang out some great songs
on the triangle.
That might be it for me.
J Scavo (03:18):
Punk rock made it okay for you to not be good at your
instrument.
Sophie (03:21):
I might have some flute skills left over for middle
school.
I'd have to see.
J Scavo (03:26):
And then I went to college.
I didn't know what I wanted tomajor in.
So I started working at theradio station and then I
answered an ad that showed up inour college paper or maybe in
the station for an intern atIsland Records.
It was amazing, greatexperience, met a lot of people
who I still know.
Summer came, internship ended.
(03:47):
BMG had an internship programthat was paid.
So I did that.
My boss was awesome and she gotpromoted.
There was some room for me tomove from being an intern.
So I was very lucky.
Long before I graduated, I had afull-time job with BMG and I fit
school around it as best Icould.
And soon after that I gotpromoted.
(04:09):
I was in distribution and Ioversaw all the record stores
when record stores were the mainway that people got to music
back in the day, for, I thinkthree or four states.
I went to a lot of shows, as youdo as a young kid, and there was
a band that I really loved andthey didn't have a manager and I
(04:29):
had a pager, which was cool backthen, and I got free postage to
send our tapes out, and a copierfor shows.
We said that we'd do it for oneyear and I was working at BMG at
the same time.
And at the very end of thatyear, like at the last, you
know, week of that year, we gota slot to play South by
(04:52):
Southwest and so it was ourfirst road trip.
And we show up to this place toplay and it was like in the
middle of the day, in this giantroom kind of outside of Austin
and there was literally nobodythere.
So I was like, well, this is it.
Like, we'll do this show.
I'll stop managing you guys.
And you know, we'll have a blastgoing back home and we'll stay
(05:14):
friends and good luck.
And the most incredible thinghappened.
We got a call or something fromInterscope Records, which was
only probably two or three yearsold back then and just the
hottest shit label in LA, youknow, they were super cool.
They were kind of independent.
They had like Nine Inch Nailsand Dr.
Dre.
(05:34):
Crazy, you know?
And they told us this crazystory that they were going to,
somebody else's show, they gotdropped off at the wrong place,
our place, they stuck their headin for like a second, liked what
they heard and got back in thecab and went to the place that
they were going to.
They tracked us down and weended up getting signed there.
(05:54):
I managed bands for eight yearsand it was amazing.
Being a manager is really greatexperience for almost any part
of the record industry, foranybody who's wondering how to
go get an education in therecord industry; I think being a
manager is one of the best forsure, because you're touching
every single facet of thebusiness.
Sophie (06:11):
Right.
J Scavo (06:12):
I wanted a change, so I went to interview at places, I
interviewed at HollywoodRecords, which was the record
company, the frontline companyof the Disney Music Group and
ARTISTdirect, which was probablylike the first big music company
ever.
But, I ended up going toHollywood because the job seemed
(06:34):
way cooler, was head of artistdevelopment.
And that really started likewhat I would consider the
traditional part of my career,where I ran the artist
development deparment ofHollywood for six years, I
think.
It was amazing.
I got my MBA while I was there.
I went to go run MySpaceRecords, which was born after
(06:54):
Fox bought MySpace.
I went back to Disney to runtheir Digital Marketing
Department and then I went toWarner to do the same.
I also ran the merch departmentthe VIP ticketing department,
fan clubs.
And then I went off on my ownand started this Daemon company.
(07:16):
I was lucky enough that I hadsome people call and they needed
some very specific kinds of helpand the help that is difficult
to get outside of a label.
And so it started as a one manjob, now there's three of us,
and I love it.
It's, it's incredible.
Sophie (07:33):
So, what is it that you do at Daemon?
J Scavo (07:37):
So what we do, we're sort of a record company that
people hire to put their recordsout on their own.
So we function much like ageneral manager and a marketing
and a sales team would, if youwere at an indie label or a
major label.
And then we also have born outof necessity a social part of
(07:58):
our company.
So for some of our artists wealso run their social sort of
soup to nuts where we'recalendaring, creating content,
ideating with them, coming upwith things that they should
post, going for best practices,growing their base, figuring out
each new platform as it comesonline.
Is it the right fit for them?
Snap or TikTok or whatever.
Sophie (08:20):
So, how do you think that a brand new artist should
go about creating their brand?
If you were working with someonewho is new to the industry, how
do you come to decisions aboutwhat their brand is going to be,
what their vibe is going to be,and what they're going to be
putting out there for their fansand their audience.
J Scavo (08:39):
That's the million dollar question, man.
Usually, I tell people, even ifyou're making super mainstream
pop, you need to have somethingto say and you need to have a
worldview that's unique and yourown.
And you need to make art thathelps express that worldview.
(08:59):
And maybe it's a worldview thatcan be shared by a lot of
people.
And maybe it's a worldview thatcan just be shared by a few
people, but even a few peoplecan make a career.
You know, a lot of people cansay, but no music is unique,
because everything has beendone, but combining influences
is really a key attribute forpeople that are making cutting
(09:22):
edge music.
And if you can do that and youknow, now it's so easy to get
your music out, but that's juststep one.
Just creating the music isn'tgood enough.
Unless you get really lucky.
There are people who createmusic in their bedroom and
part-time, and somebody at a DSPfinds it and falls in love with
(09:44):
it and puts it on a giantplaylist and you can build a
career like that for sure.
But you have to plan on notbeing lucky and once you create
it and you put it out, what areyou going to do to support it?
What social accounts make senseto you and feel right for your
brand?
What do you put in those socialaccounts?
What are you going to say topeople?
What art do you want to put outthere to represent you?
(10:07):
Do you want people to get toknow you?
Is it super personal?
Is it informal?
Is it arms length and like moremysterious?
Whatever that is, it should fitwith what the music is as well.
A super informal pop or punkband, it would be really awkward
if you went to their Instagramand they were very standoffish
(10:28):
and was just the facts ma'am andthere was no personality there.
It would also be weird if aclassical artist was doing
hashtag contests or whatever.
You need it all to fit into abrand that should be driven by
your worldview and your messageI think a lot of people just
want to put stuff out and thatcould be cool.
So, if you just want to putstuff out and hope that somebody
(10:49):
finds it, that has worked, it'sleaving a lot to chance and it's
pretty rare.
And if you don't want to do thework, and that's why people
often come to us like they justwant to make music and they want
us to do the marketing for them.
That is clearly in a way thatthings can happen as well.
Sophie (11:05):
Right.
So kind of building off of that.
Um, do any particular artistscome to mind when you think of
someone who brands themselvesreally well and is doing a good
job of marketing to their targetaudience?
J Scavo (11:18):
Taylor Swift is like, she's done a marketing, like
doctorate, you know?
Her music and her brand and hermessage is so consistent and so
on point, and it's found areally big audience.
There's probably a thousandTaylor Swift type artists that
(11:39):
never made it.
You know what I mean?
She made it, she put the time inmarketing has always been
important for her.
I assume, I don't know her, Idon't want to like, speak like
me and TayTay hang out often.
But, she's a full fledgedmachine.
The art is incredible.
Her brand is great, it'sconsistent.
Her worldview seems really clearand a bunch of people have
(11:59):
bought into it.
Other bands that come to mind,Linkin Park, who I did have the
pleasure of working with.
Everything seemed consistentwith their sort of worldview in
their art.
They broke a lot of rules whenthey had the opportunity to, and
it worked out well for them.
I think those are the types ofbands and, and commitments to
(12:21):
your art that it's shown thatthey can survive over decades at
this point.
I think a lot more artists noware having singles sort of go
viral, but, really building acareer, and fan base one by one
that can last longer than you'rein a specific playlist is really
what I consider success.
(12:44):
Even the playlisters will tellyou, they really want to
champion artists that can have areal fan base and have merch and
can go tour and have a vibrantsocial profile.
They want the whole package andthose are the artists that have
a shot at getting into the biggame, which is having a years to
(13:05):
decades long career.
Sophie (13:07):
So, naturally, you know, as time goes on, if artists are
having these super long careers,they're bound to change and grow
over that time.
Taylor Swift has had a prettysuccessful rebrand during her
career going from her innocencecountry roots to her new pop
persona.
But, obviously there are a tonof artists who have attempted
that rebrand and have not hadsuccess in that.
(13:30):
So, what do you think makes asuccessful rebrand and how
should an artist go about theirrebrand in order to ensure
success?
J Scavo (13:38):
Again, I don't want to fake like I know anything about
the Taylor camp.
But, as an observer and amarketing person and somebody
who really has a profound levelof respect for her and what
she's built, her songs, whetherthey were the earlier country
stuff or the pop stuff areundeniable, like the songs are
(13:59):
great.
And the subject matter from herearlier records to her later
records, the words might bedifferent, but the sort of
worldview and the stuff thatshe's singing about is pretty
consistent.
She's always been a strongbeliever in herself and the
(14:20):
power of women.
And that's only grown throughoutthe years.
That that was the thing that didnot shift when the music
shifted.
I do feel like her rebrand waspretty slow.
I mean, every album, she likelayered a little bit more pop
into what she was doing.
(14:40):
She did it because she speakstrue to her brand.
The music was undeniable, butthe tracks themselves were
undeniable and her fans were sostrong that they came with her
along that journey.
I also think that she got a lotof young fans and, like her,
young fans grow up and whatyou're into at 13 isn't even
(15:02):
cool when you're 14, much lesswhen you're 18.
I do feel like for a legion ofkids they kind of grew up in
with her.
She just kept delivering hits tothem, whether it was when
they're 28 or when they were 18.
That's special, you know, Idon't know many other artists
(15:23):
who have done that.
A lot of times fans freak outwhen people change their style
or whatever, but I would counterand say only special bands, like
The Ramones can make the samesounding album over and over and
over again and get away with it.
Sophie (15:41):
That's really great insight.
You've said that you've had kindof established artists going to
TikTok if it suits their brand.
Lately on TikTok a lot of peoplehave been blowing up just like
songs going absolutely viraljust with people, you know,
playing the guitar in theirbedroom.
Do you have any thoughts onTikTok as a starting point for a
(16:02):
new artist in terms of buildingtheir brand beginning on TikTok
and how that can potentially bemoved into the larger industry
and kind of start a career fromthere?
J Scavo (16:13):
So on TikTok there's two different sort of things
that happen.
One is there are someTikTokerswho regularly publish who
understand the editing mechanicsof the platform, who make great
content, who also do music.
Right?
(16:33):
And then there's usually peoplewho aren't on TikTok, musicians,
who have a song or a hook thatgets virally picked up as a
sound that a bunch of people endup using.
And it's really, um, difficultfor what I would consider a
regular band to become aTikToker and really publish a
(16:53):
lot of content often trying tobe relevant on the platform,
jump into other trendinghashtags, do other people's
stuff, because usually whenyou're a musician, the music is
your life.
You don't want to have to listento other people's songs or cover
other people's songs.
You just want to do your ownsongs.
You have to sort of be smartabout the other content that you
(17:16):
place in TikTok surrounding youroriginal work to get people
there for the reasons thatpeople like TikTok.
Whether it's funny or it's deepor it's insightful.
These posts that you have tomake that don't really feature
your music.
They have to be there too to getthe people in the door where
(17:36):
then you can drop your, youplaying in your bedroom your own
song or whatever.
But it is important, especiallywhen you're starting out, to
think about there are songs thatget picked up and go viral and
that could launch a career, orif you're inspired by the
platform and you understand thatediting piece of it, that's so
important, you can commit tolike really being a TikToker,
(17:58):
who's focused on music andbreaking through that way.
And I think in that sense, it'sa fantastic forum.
Sophie (18:04):
Awesome.
So this last one is probably onethat you get a lot, I would
think, but I think it's a goodway to leave our listeners with
something.
So, what advice do you have forany of our listeners who want to
follow in your footsteps on thispath in the industry?
J Scavo (18:22):
Here's what I'd say.
If you want to really work inthe record business on the
business side, and frankly, aswell as on the artist side, you
definitely should not have aPlan B.
There are a line of people mileslong dying to work in the music
industry because it feeds theirpassion.
I think the arts inspires thatin people.
(18:42):
And just know that that's yourcompetition: people who would do
anything, work for free foryears just to get into the door.
It's really hard.
People are really shrewd.
People are really smart.
Usually the shrewdest and thesmartest are the ones that
survive.
I would say, if you want to dothis, you need to find whatever
(19:04):
you can do, work for whoever youcan, make any connection you
can.
Everything on your resume makesa difference.
Whether that's helping out atyour local club, being part of a
high school club, managing afriend's band, working at a
record store, all that makes adifference and can lead up to
something like a job at a labelor a management company.
Sophie (19:26):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
That is great advice.
I just want to thank you onemore time for being here with
us.
Your insight and your advice isso appreciated and is worth so
much.
So just thank you again forbeing here.
Great to talk to you.
J Scavo (19:42):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Nikita (19:44):
Well, there you have it! One glance at J Scavo's
extensively-packed LinkedInprofile or his polished company
website may have you feelingextremely intimidated, but
hopefully this conversationproves that everyone starts from
humble beginnings, and anyonecan become a big player in the
music industry if they forgeconnections, take risks, and
keep their wits about them.
(20:06):
Still having doubts?
Maybe our next guests, Sam,Jimmy, and Andrew, the brains
behind the up-and-coming HarborPark Media Company can hit a
little closer to home and be abit more convincing.
Their story is definitely aninspiring one.
Amidst the chaos and uncertaintyof the year 2020, they birthed
their entreprise from a tinyapartment in Philadelphia, where
(20:29):
they were living as ambitiouscollege kids, just like us, with
an insatiable love for music,especially towards the bands
they thought weren't receivingthe exposure they deserved.
Harbor Park provides a vastarray of content services from
promotional photography shootsto fully fleshed video
production.
With their more relaxed andintimate approach to branding,
(20:50):
which prioritizes the artist'screative control when
collaborating on ideas, we cancertainly see them going far,
which is why we jumped at theopportunity to interview them.
I'll hand it over to Alexa.
Alexa (21:03):
Thank you guys all for joining.
I'm so excited to talk with youabout Harbor Park and the media
and entertainment industry andmusic industry more generally.
My first question is how didHarbor Park Media Company come
about in the first place?
Sam Decencio (21:20):
Um, so I guess technically I started Harbor
Park, obviously Jimmy and,Connor were doing video stuff
way before that media stuff.
But, uh, the idea came to me andmy one roommate, so well,
backstory Harbor Park isactually made out of five
owners.
There's me, Jimmy, Connor andtwo more.
(21:44):
There's our friend Jack Ballardand my roommate, one of my
roommates, Andrew at college.
And the idea originally came towhen me and Andrew, like one
night we were sorta just, weboth love music, especially sort
of like the indie alternative,like wave, I guess, garage rock.
And we just, we found a bandthat was a bit smaller.
(22:07):
From our area.
And we were like, wow, we reallylike these guys.
We're like, why aren't theyfamous?
Like they deserve to be famous.
So then we sort of just almostsort of like, that's what we
should sort of do, like helpbands manage them, promote them
to try to get them to one day befamous.
Alexa (22:23):
So very artist-focused, like getting them out there,
getting their names out there.
I saw from your website, Samthat you are the head of
business development, Jimmy,you're creative director and
Connor, what's your role?
Connor Kamp (22:37):
Officially I'm the head of content.
Alexa (22:39):
So can you, can you talk a little bit about what each of
those roles entail?
Sam Decencio (22:44):
I'll start off sort of as head of business
development, almost just sort ofoverseeing Harbor Park and just
like, obviously moving forward,things we want to to focus on
just like overall viewpoint.
I will say I also, like,obviously everyone has a title,
but it's sort of almost loose weall work together on things,
although like definitely Connorand Jimmy are more, they know a
(23:07):
lot more about like the videostuff and the media side.
So that's sort of why we havethese titles, but I got, like I
said, I also like to help a lotwith like promotion and
marketing as well.
Alexa (23:18):
What about you guys?
Jimmy Atkinson (23:20):
So in terms of talent relations and talking, I
think my, my title is set up islike creative director, head of
talent relations or somethingalong those lines.
I mean, I think full disclosurewe were just tossing out titles
at the beginning to see whatwould stick, but, uh, also in
terms of responsibilities, Ithink it, uh, you know, I think
it's pretty spot on a lot of thetalent relations thing is, is
(23:40):
just kind of keeping up withartists, keeping in contact with
them, letting them know, like,you know, we're still working
behind the scenes, whether ornot we're, You know, in contact
all week with them, like it'sstill good to be in touch with
them.
Um, a lot of it was reaching outto bands and recruiting people
early on.
So a lot of it was like straightup social media DM-ing and uh, a
lot of just grunt work to tryto, you know, explain the
(24:03):
company, the idea to people.
And then, and then from there,hope they like sign on but in
terms of town relations, I thinklike most of that is, is
essentially just kind of keepingup and keeping in contact with
these people that we're workingwith.
Connor Kamp (24:16):
As far as like head of content goes and I've been
doing media creation for yearsand years, and it's something
I'm really passionate about andsomething Jimmy and I work well
together on.
And so, Yeah, I'm taking thehelm as far as, um, photography
and music, video shoots and, uh,you know, any other content that
we might produce and, um, andjust, you know, seeing that
(24:37):
through.
Alexa (24:38):
Yeah.
Awesome.
So the focus of this episode ofthe podcast is artists brand
development.
I'm wondering how you guys thinkbrand new artists should go
about creating a brand for themselves.
And if you're working withsomeone new to the industry, how
do you and the artists come todecisions about what their brand
is going to be?
You know, do you leave it up tothe artist or do you guys take
more of a concrete role in thatprocess?
Jimmy Atkinson (25:01):
I'll take this one.
If you guys don't mind.
I think the best example that wecould use talking about brand
right now, uh, in terms of ourartists is this guy, Javie
Bahama, who, uh, we're out hereworking with.
We're actually going to meet upwith him tonight to shoot some
pictures and just get to knowhim kind of thing.
But, um, his brand right awayin, in terms of artist's brand,
a lot of the things that we lookfor is like their casual,
(25:23):
actual, genuine personality.
And like, that was a big thingthat we really liked about Javie
was, that he has this supergenuine, like Instagram page
where he'll just casually postslike memes and stuff.
And we just think that thatlike, right away.
The idea was that he didn'treally have a brand.
He was like being himself.
And that, that would be a loteasier to promote if we weren't
(25:44):
like forcing this because wewere working with another band,
from another country.
I won't name them because we'renot working with them anymore,
they had different ideas abouttheir brand and, and kinda, and
different ideas about how fastand how hard promotion-wise and
stuff when I think our opinionis in, in this kind of genre of
(26:04):
music and the indie scene thiscasual vibe that, that Javie's
got going this genuine, like lowkey low effort kind of like
brand is, uh, it fits the musicand it fits the, the, you know,
social media, we're big onsocial media content, especially
if it's, if it's like justgenuine, like posts that the
(26:25):
band or the artists like wouldactually post and not, we don't,
we don't want stuff to feelforced, you know?
So I think, um, Javie Bahama isa great example of brand and,
and, uh, how we build brandswith people.
And that was really just a lotof hands-off like, hey, Javie,
keep doing your thing.
Alexa (26:41):
So would you say it's more like you guys seek out
these people who are, as yousay, really accessible, really
down to earth and, authentic,or, do you maybe see potential
in an artist and then help themrealize that in themselves?
Sam Decencio (26:58):
Yeah, I would say that like, so our big thing for
us is I know there's some likemanagement, like media companies
out there that will just workanyone and everyone.
Especially, like, obviously wewould do music video for almost
anyone, but like when it comesto like people we want to work
with and manage and like be withfor a while, like the number one
thing for us is like theirmusic.
It's like something that we likehave to like, and like really
(27:22):
appreciate and think that otherpeople will appreciate it.
And we feel like that's the bestway to sort of promote.
And on top of that with, um,like branding every, like, if
your music's good, in myopinion, and you have like a,
just a nice genuine presence, Ithink people really like dig
that in this day and age.
Alexa (27:41):
Can you guys think of examples of artists who fit that
bill, who you think, havereally, you know, good music to
back it up, but have alsobranded themselves well and
authentically?
Jimmy Atkinson (27:52):
Uh, Boy Pablo.
I think Boy Pablo in terms of,uh, I mean, they kind of exist
like in our space of like theindie alternative scene and, uh,
I mean, they blew up quickbecause of YouTube and then what
that's like a, 18 year oldChilean slash Finnish kid.
And, and like, Yeah.
It's, it's great music.
And, uh, and their music videosare just on point it's this
(28:15):
whole brand of you know, uh, heis, he's a kid like, like he's
18 or 19, so it's very you know,youthful and fun, but you would
have to watch his music videos.
I think his music, these arefantastic, but that's a, that's
a great idea that I would, or agreat example.
I'd love to, for a brand.
Sam Decencio (28:30):
I'd say another artist as well, like one I
personally like Day Glo, Iforget his real name, but he's
like a relatively new artist.
And like, he just was a collegestudent, Texas, and I'd say
probably a year and a half ago,he started like releasing,
released his first album.
And now so many people know him.
And I will say on top of thathis music videos that are really
(28:51):
creative.
And like it just sort of is agenuine sort of fun happy music
video, which I think a lot offans, like.
Alexa (28:59):
So, we're talking about these people who have kind of
blown up, Jimmy, you weretalking about blowing up on
YouTube.
And before we started recording,I know we were talking a little
bit about Tik Tok and how, youknow, maybe you guys are veering
away from that sphere, but I'dlove to talk a little bit about
Tik Tok as this kind of famegenerator.
Recently, we've seen a rise ofartists using the app to build
(29:22):
their brands.
Have you worked with any artistswho are using Tik Tok to promote
themselves?
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat experience and how do you
feel about the platform as astarting point for artists and
as a marketing method forartists who are already
established?
Jimmy Atkinson (29:35):
The perfect question, Sam, you want to talk
senior year?
Sam Decencio (29:37):
Yeah.
Um, so we're actually very bigTik Tok people, honestly.
And I, we think, I think thatit's probably one of the best
ways to like, go about just freepromotion now for bands,
especially, um, one of ourclients is a band called senior
year who we found, well, I thinkI, maybe Jimmy found them, but
we sent it to each other, but itwas like before they had
(29:59):
actually released any music.
So right now they have only onesong released, but we found them
right before and we were justlike, wow, these guys are really
good.
And like on top of that, goingback to the genuine, like
personality, presence, they arejust like, we just like, they
sound like really cool guys.
So I just reached out to them.
And after a couple meetings wewere like, they fit really well
with us.
Jimmy Atkinson (30:18):
Yeah.
They, they hit like 50,000streams on a, on a Tik TOK
before they even released anymusic.
I think it was just like, it wasa nice riff that they had that
they were practicing and it waslike, um, music dropping soon,
like kind of like a little bitof like, they were promoing
themselves without even kind ofrealizing that they were
promoing themselves.
It was like a genuine post, butit blew up and we were like, yo,
these guys are accidentally goodat marketing themselves, they
(30:42):
haven't even come out withanything yet.
And they're already buildinglike a fanbase on Tik Tok.
Sam Decencio (30:46):
Yeah.
The singer and I think, yeah,singer/guitarist, Simon.
He was like the one who puttheir band because he like had a
Tik TOK himself originally.
And like, he would just postguitar stuff on there and
started like getting a bunch offollowers.
It was like, our band has to dothis too.
So that's sort of like the waythey went about it, which I
definitely think is a smartthing to do if you're a new
(31:06):
band.
Connor Kamp (31:08):
Tik TOK is a great tool.
I think there's no doubt aboutthat.
I think it's easy to loseyourself and maybe lose sight of
what you're trying to accomplishwith Tik Tok.
Sam Decencio (31:17):
I mean, there's just like the small, little,
like factors as well that like,if you especially using like
your own music that you'vereleased, like as a sound,
there's just always a chancethat for some reason they can
just blow up.
Jimmy Atkinson (31:28):
I think uh Tik Tok its kind of randomness like
its volatility is definitelylike a little like worrying in
terms of like promoting, Ithink, a cool thing, that like
both, it's hard from our end,like our business end, but it's
also pretty cool about Tik Tokis that like, I think it's very
hard to make something just blowup, like un-genuinely.
(31:49):
Like I think things genuinelyblow up if they're like
genuinely enjoyed on Tik Tokwhen on a lot of other social
medias, like if you pump enoughmoney or pump enough, like views
into it, like it'll just, youknow, it'll get enough views.
But I think with Tik Tok, likeand our approach to Tik Tok has
been just kind of telling ourartists and you know,
encouraging them to get on TikTok and just be themselves, like
(32:09):
not really force any Tik Toks,like put their music in there
and then just, you know, dosomething like casual, like just
do you know, something that youwould actually do and don't try
to force it because I think youcan tell when it's trying to be
forced.
And I think Tik Tok itself aslike a, as a social media is
like stuff won't really work, ifyou're like, you're trying to
(32:29):
force music onto the Zoomerkids.
Like, they're not gonna, they'renot gonna take that.
Sam Decencio (32:33):
My last sort of, comment about it, just like to
piggyback off that it's like,sort of a behind the scenes,
almost of like a band, manypeople will like an artist, but
like Tik Tok and actually behindthe scenes of like, how they
genuinely are, and like howJimmy said, just something that
you like post on that youwouldn't normally do.
Cause I mean, your fans willprobably like that.
Alexa (32:52):
That's so true.
It's like they can stream yourmusic and follow you, watch your
videos.
But they will also want to getto know you guys as people.
Right?
So, so they want to go behindthe scenes as well.
So, um, can you guys talk alittle bit about if you haven't
already, the artists that you'veworked with or artists that
you've worked with, who havemade the greatest impact on your
careers?
Jimmy Atkinson (33:13):
You can go, you can go a couple of directions
with this one.
Um, I would say, I mean, the,the artists to me, uh, right off
the bat, like getting our firstartists was a spectacular
feeling like getting, um, it wasPhoto Negative, right, Sam?
Sam Decencio (33:28):
Yeah, our first meeting with a band and our
first actual band that we signedthat night.
Jimmy Atkinson (33:35):
Yeah.
And that was uh, to me, it wasjust right away.
It was like, damn.
Like we have, you know, itkinda, it kinda made me realize
like, we're we have something tooffer to bands and that you
know, bands are interested inthis idea of, because
essentially what we wereoffering them is like free
promotion and free marketing.
Like, that was kind of how wegot our foot in the door.
It was to be able to like go tothese bands and be like, hey,
(33:57):
like, you know, we'll work foryou.
We'll do whatever you need.
Like, we can talk money later,like about media, um,
performances and, and, you know,making a music video or
something.
But until then, like let's justattach our names together and
let's like, and we'll promoteyou and blah, blah, blah.
And I think, um, getting PhotoNegative was through like a
friend of a friend, um, at, atBoston college and, um, you
(34:19):
know, once we got them on it andonce we were talking to them and
I think realizing that they werelike genuine college kids like
us and you know, just normal funguys who were really into music,
same way we are, that's kindawhen I realized like, oh, this
can like really work, like thiscan, there's a lot of bands out
there like these people that youknow, are like us and love music
and, uh, are open to having morehelp.
(34:40):
And so, I mean, that, that wasthe greatest that-- we're still
real young.
So I guess, uh, we haven'treally had any artists like
really affect us, but I thinkfirst getting the couple ones on
board was, was, was awesome.
Connor Kamp (34:53):
Yeah so I mean, Jimmy did touch on this at the
end.
We like are still definitelygetting off the ground and it is
somewhat difficult because ourartists are literally all over
the country.
And, um, so working face-to-facewith them is not always the
easiest, but I'm really lookingforward to this meeting that
Jimmy and I are, Jimmy justmentioned, um, with Javie
Bahama, one of our artists.
And, uh, we're doing thattonight.
And I think that's going to bereally great to just kind of get
(35:15):
a feel for how he works and likehis creative process and how he
is as a person, even more sothan like, cause we've had quite
a few phone calls with him andhe's great.
But you know, just being able tointeract with him in person is
going to be awesome.
And um, and I think that that'sprobably like going to be the
first step in building a reallymeaningful creative relationship
with this guy.
Alexa (35:36):
So this is your first time meeting him face to face.
Jimmy Atkinson (35:40):
Yeah.
Connor Kamp (35:42):
Great guy, uh, he's got this incredible film camera
called, uh NISHIKA n8,000, Ibelieve is what it's called.
And it's what, um, it's whatpeople use for those-- you can
do it on your phone with an app,and it's like a parallax photo
where it like shifts.
We're going to do some shotswith that.
And then I've got my camera andwe'll do some, we've been, you
know, uh, talking about ideasfor like a Tiny Desk Concert or
(36:04):
like something like that that wecould use to promote his music.
So we'll see how it goes.
Sam Decencio (36:08):
Definitely agree with everything they've said a,
um, another client they haven'treally touched on yet is, um,
Deep Sea Peach Tree, one of ourclients as well.
And it's sort of just like thething about them is they've
probably established themselvesmore.
They've been around for a fewyears, few years now.
Than like our other clients, butlike, they're just also all of
(36:29):
our, one of our favorite artistsand just like, absolutely loved
their music.
So just like being able to workwith them, it's just like a
great thing is makes me excitedto like be a part of Harbor
Park.
Jimmy Atkinson (36:39):
Yeah.
We, we spent the whole summerlistening to this band, like
before the idea of Harbor Parkcame around, we spent the whole
summer and like last year, too,just like listening to this
band.
And once we kind of started, wewere like, yo, down the line,
let's hit, you know, Deep SeaPeach Tree up.
And then three months later, wedid and it worked.
And like, that was, that waspretty surreal.
Connor Kamp (36:59):
With Harbor park it's like all these artists that
we have, like we're genuinelyfans of their music.
We wouldn't work with them if wedidn't like really love what
they were doing.
And so it makes it that mucheasier to like build
relationships with them becausewe already loved their music.
Alexa (37:10):
I'm hearing this repeated theme of you don't want to be
kind of just like an open door,like we'll work with anyone.
You want to be a little moreselective about the artists that
you work with.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout why you use that approach
as opposed to kind of being morelike we'll work with anyone?
Sam Decencio (37:29):
I'm not sure, like I would work with like anyone.
I just, I don't think I'd like,sort of be able to say,'cause at
some points, like if I'm workingwith someone, I don't really
like enjoy their music as much.
And they're like pushing me andthey're, they're asking us, why
is this not getting enoughrecognition?
I wouldn't really be able totell them it's not good enough.
So I guess just a really goodadvantage of-- like everyone
would work at like, they'll sendme like a new song or send us
(37:52):
some new songs, or a thingthey're releasing and I'll be
like, that's a really good song.
You should release that.
So, um, I think that's morelike, that's my reasoning to why
I like to be a little selective.
It's just,'cause it almost likemakes our job easier.
Jimmy Atkinson (38:07):
Yeah I would agree.
I think that the whole likeselective idea is like, we're
selective, but, but just kind oflike out of preference, like
it's not really like-- we'reopen to working with everybody.
Like, I mean, you know, we wantmoney and we want, we want to
work.
You know, the ideas that wecould do media for, for anybody,
but like, there's this nextlevel of partnership in which
(38:28):
like, you know, we're workingHarbor Park and this band.
And like for that, that's likean extended relationship.
That's when the talent relationsI guess, will come in.
I think like bottom line is,like I think for us, like in
order to feel like the, thepassion and like the constant
drive, it needs to be somebodylike, we really believe in and
that's not to say that like aband could come up to us like,
hey, can you work with us?
(38:48):
And we'd be like, no, you suck.
Like, it's more just like, wereally sought out these specific
bands we're working with becauseyou know, their music is
incredible.
And it's like, if we, I think ifwe really believe in the product
that we're pushing, it makes ita lot easier to, to do all the
promotion, all the grunt workand stuff.
Because I think a lot ofpromotion, a lot of marketing
feels very fake.
(39:09):
Like I like, I keep using theword genuine, but like, I think
that's a big focus for us, is todo very, natural promotion.
Like let people find the musicwho are going to enjoy the
music.
Don't push the music onto peoplewho are not in the demographic
or not in the, in the genre.
So I, I think for us to, to youknow, pursue this like genuine
(39:30):
goal, um, it helps to work withbands that we like actually
listen to.
Alexa (39:35):
If you had to choose an artist you've worked with who
you think you've made thegreatest impact on their career,
who would it be and why?
Jimmy Atkinson (39:45):
I mean, I think Photo Negative would probably be
my choice.
I think, um, I think it was, uh,like in terms of impact that
we've had on their career sofar, I think, um, in this very
early stage, the biggest impactwe could point to, is just kind
of showing people that likethere's interest in their music,
like a lot of the bands and alot of the artists that we
talked to, were surprised whenwe DM them, like, that's awesome
(40:07):
you guys are listening to mystuff out on the East coast or
like, wow, like you got merch?
Like that's crazy.
And it was just, it was alwaysfunny to us because like, dude,
like your songs are amazing.
Like, what do you mean?
Why are you surprised aboutthis?
And so I think, um, early on,especially with Photo Negative,
like it's a student band, abunch of kids our age, Boston
college.
I don't think they ever reallyexpected anything like this.
And I think it kind of pushedthem into like go mode a little
(40:30):
bit.
Like they got recording again.
They started you know, gettingready, like they got the whole
band together and all that.
And I think once they see that,like that's the biggest effect
that I think I can point to isthat like, just them seeing
that, there's a team full ofpeople that are passionate about
the industry and passionateabout their music who are
willing to help them out forfree pretty much.
Sam Decencio (40:49):
I was actually gonna say pretty much exactly
everything that Jimmy just saidthe, yeah, like the biggest
impact may not just be likegetting, they-- we promoted
them, like they are like a nextlevel now, but just the fact
that they were like, I just, I'mreally happy, someone else like
likes our music.
It was just like the push theyneeded like more motivation.
(41:10):
I mean, like due to COVID, Imean, probably due to COVID they
hadn't released a song in like,uh, a year or two since the
original like EP.
So that was like a nice push forthem in this winter.
And now they're all backtogether at school.
I like caught up with themmultiple times and they've just
been all really excited.
They've been like recordingstuff.
They send me a couple of newsongs they have that they're
planning on releasing.
(41:30):
So, I mean, everything's goingpretty well with them.
Alexa (41:33):
How has COVID impacted you guys and what you guys are
doing?
Jimmy Atkinson (41:38):
So we were, we were kind of born out of COVID
we, um, I think COVID, uh, was,was, because a lot of our focus
when we first kinda got togetherwas like, so like, things are
going to start opening back upwithin you know, we got together
in like October and LLC and allthen we were hoping it'd be, you
know, COVID would be gone byaround now, but no, we got, we
(41:59):
got a couple more months, but, Ithink, I think us meeting
together and coming together inthis space, especially in a time
where like with COVID a lot ofpromotion and a lot of like,
like, I mean there's no liveperformances.
We see a lot of bands doing likeonline Zoom performances and
stuff.
And I think, um, like werecognized that that was a very
good opportunity to hop intothis space and become new
(42:22):
players in it because you don'treally, you, we didn't have to
know anybody.
Like we didn't have to like showup anything.
It was all DMS.
It was all like, just hittingpeople up and building a brand
for ourselves and, and buildingthe website and just kind of
presenting ourselves as ready todo this.
And, and I think that COVID wasa big part of that because like,
without all these bands online,like trying to do promotion and
(42:44):
trying to do, you know theirband stuff, but like in an
online sphere, uh, it would'vebeen harder to get into it.
And I think it would have beenharder to get, you know, bands
on board to work with us.
So I think, you know, I thinkCOVID, you know, was a, was a
benefit on our side.
Alexa (43:01):
So you've obviously said that you guys are new, you're
getting off the ground, but I'mwondering, is there something
that you have learned that youwish you had known starting out?
Jimmy Atkinson (43:10):
That's a great question.
Sam Decencio (43:11):
I mean, I just have a smaller thing.
Something that I learned when weoriginally were able to work
something out with Deep SeePeach Tree and like they became
an official client, was that, Idon't know.
It was like, sort of just that,like anyone-- it's not like
where we were always, like atthe time, limiting ourselves to
like really kind of smallerbands that are just starting
off.
But like the thing was that,like I realized, like anyone
(43:31):
could be a client.
And reaching out to people, likethe worst that's going to happen
is they're just going to belike, sorry, no, like,
everyone's really cool like inthis music community that
they're not just going to--they're not going to be like,
no, why would we want to workwith you?
Like, that's so stupid.
It's just like, they're justlike, sorry, no, thanks.
Uh, so that's like like what Ilearned from the very beginning.
Jimmy Atkinson (43:53):
I think, um, what I would point to is like,
yeah, along the same lines, is Imean, I think early on when we
were first jumping into Zoomcalls with bands and stuff, I
was like intimidated going intothem.
And I think, uh, I remember Samand I like sitting on my couch,
right next to each other, justlike kind of putting on our
business faces for a band andspending like 50 minutes
straight, like just likerattling off like long business
(44:15):
sounding stuff.
Looking back at it, um, a lot--yeah.
I think like the number onething I learned is that like,
it's, it's easier than you thinkit would be.
Like, everyone's very genuine,like what Sam's talking about.
These people are passionateabout music and I think a
certain kind of quality, like apersonality trait that comes
with being passionate aboutmusic is that like, you know,
(44:36):
they're just creatively open,and they're open to ideas and
they're open to talking topeople and they especially love
when we love their music.
Like, and so I think that's,that's what I've learned is that
it's like really good vibesaround here.
Like, and I think going into it,I probably would have expected
that the music industry is alittle grimy.
Like I remember saying that alot at the very beginning, it is
(44:56):
grimy, but I think where we arein this space and in this sphere
of, of like, like this genre ofmusic, I think the vibe is
perfect.
And I think the people are nice.
Alexa (45:07):
Do you think that, that, this kind of, uh, more indie
folk rock sphere is differentfrom, from, you know other
spheres in meaningful ways?
Like, like you, you kind ofalluded to the people are really
nice and really open.
Do you think that that'sspecific to this genre?
Jimmy Atkinson (45:26):
Yeah, and, and I, I think, um, cause I know, I
know your focus is brand, right?
So I, I think, um, I think brandgoes hand in hand with garage
rock.
Like I, I think there's like aninherent brand in this, in this,
you know, music scene where it'sindie music, so nobody's really
blowing up.
Like if you're at the top of thegame, like you're getting maybe
like a million, a couple ofstreams on, on some of your
(45:46):
songs and I, I think with thatbeing the case, it's not very
corporate.
It's, it's, it's a lot of justgenuine people doing, like
making the music they genuinelyenjoy making and, and like just
posting dumb stuff on Instagramrather than like having a social
media manager, blah, blah, blah,and I think, um, the space
itself, just kinda, yeah.
It lends itself to this brandof, of casual, like music making
(46:09):
and genuine passion for the art.
And yeah, it's carried over toeverybody we've met so far too.
It's like a lot of, a lot ofbands or a lot of artists seem
like they don't really careabout making it or getting more
streams.
They're just happy with themusic they make.
And I think that's like abeautiful thing.
Like I think that's wonderful.
Alexa (46:27):
So where can our listeners find you guys online,
on social media?
Where can they listen to yourartists' music?
Jimmy Atkinson (46:34):
So harborparkmedia.com has got all
our info, all of our bands, all,all the music there.
There's a playlist on there too.
And that's got every song by aHarbor Park artist compiled
together.
Fantastic playlist, highlyrecommend.
Sam Decencio (46:47):
It's under Jimmy's account, but yeah.
And I was going to say, youalso, if you go-- our, uh,
Instagram's the same thing,Harbor Park Media, you can see
all the bands that we manage andtheir Instagram accounts and
everything, find a way to theirmusic as well.
Jimmy Atkinson (47:00):
Also, our Instagram accounts are on there
too.
Alexa (47:03):
All right.
Well, thank you guys so much forspeaking with me today.
I learned so much about what amedia company entails and how
you guys visualize brands andabout the genre of, of garage
rock that I didn't know existedbefore today.
So thank you.
Nikita (47:19):
And that's a wrap! In summary, the inspiring
individuals in this episode makeit clear that there is no right
time or method for gettinginvolved in the music biz you
just have to get up, keepgetting up and go for it.
We would just like to expressour heartfelt thanks to J and
the Harbor Park team once again,for taking the time to sit down,
discuss with us, and answer ourburning questions.
(47:42):
Lastly, we hope that you, thelistener gained some valuable
insight into the intricate anddemanding field of brand
development, as well as anewfound respect for the people
behind the scenes who carefullyconstruct, curate, maintain, and
update all the things about yourbeloved artists that make them
so lovable.
Best of luck in all yourendeavors and we hope to see you
(48:03):
next time.
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