Roundtable #2 | Dualistic Unity - Dualistic Unity

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
hello and welcome to round table episode 2 of dualistic unity i'm andrew and as always i am
playing the part of rey and today we are joined by tanya and taylor um before we get too far into
the discussion of course i will give them a chance to introduce themselves and tell you a little bit
about who they are and what they've been doing we'll start with tanya um tanya i listened to a

(00:21):
little bit of your podcast earlier this week i've really enjoyed the conversation how about you tell
our audience a bit about what made you start the podcast what podcast is all about and of course a
little bit about your history and what inspires you thank you my name is tanya gilbert i'm an
rn ccrn in santa cruz california so i started my podcast two years ago really diving into um

(00:47):
demystifying human transformation and i little did i know that human transformation is a continual
thing and consciousness is something that we wake up to and really embrace our continual
transformation in that way and i was lucky enough to come across the medical professionals
in the psychedelic realm and it led me to really dive into psychedelics as a catalyst for lasting

(01:13):
meaningful change and of course it has to be said that it's not a fix-all but it is a space and an
opportunity and a moment to redesign our entire life so then it just let me the snowball began and
i'm having amazing conversations about psychedelic integration and i'm studying integration and
um doing the work as quite an outspoken nurse on on this forefront there are um societies that

(01:40):
gather nurses but they're they tend to be kind of quiet i've never been quiet i imagine myself as
a mound of push pops and the fireworks ooey gooey and sticky so i'm here to just share
it all and and i'm just grateful to be here so thank you that's amazing we're so glad to have
you join us um so interesting as we start to find our own freedom andrew and i talk about this very

(02:02):
frequently that it's almost like as soon as you stop thinking about yourself quite so much you
start thinking about other people almost naturally and it's not even that you're thinking about other
people so much as just freedom is one of those things that naturally just wants to be shared
and so it's great that you're doing that work especially towards psychedelics and shifting our
mindset and understanding again that they're not a silver bullet that they are in fact a doorway

(02:24):
they're a tool and that as a tool you can misuse it you can misunderstand it and you can have a lot
of assumptions about it and so it's so good that you're you're advancing information and knowledge
in that direction because it's something that's sorely lacking i know 20 years ago when i had my
own psychedelic experiences it was not something that you could bring up in a conversation it was
not something you could sit around a table full of even older people and bring up because there were

(02:49):
so many uh stereotypes and stigmas around that entire discussion so it's great to see that you're
doing that and now taylor the same thing tell us a bit about yourself i did have a chance to peruse
some of your videos on tick tock and instagram i love them i think they're great um i was looking
at one about your most recent aha moment um today and how you've realized that regardless of where

(03:12):
you are on the journey regardless of what it is you feel you might be lacking or what you might
be pursuing you are always the same whole and complete yes awareness that you are i would love
for you to tell us a bit more about yourself and what inspired you and what you're doing
absolutely and i won't i won't i can't not say that mushrooms had a part in that aha because
they did so shout out to my mushrooms um yeah so wow it's not so often that i actually have to

(03:38):
give a bio for myself and i think the more you go into the world of you know raising consciousness
and spirituality you kind of have a hard time defining yourself more and more so i obviously i'm
very fluid in these in these labels that i put on myself but i am at the moment i'm currently what i
would call a spiritual life coach and i think i've just leaned into the fact that i attract a very

(03:59):
specific audience of people who think they're not spiritual at all which i think is such a gift i
speak and i try to speak in a language that's very inviting and not intimidating to people because i
never felt called to spirituality in the way that i saw it in other communities it was very you know
not that i have any judgment for and i think it's beautiful right but there's a very airy fairy um

(04:20):
approach to spirituality and then there's a religious my religious friends and i was always
like well i don't really feel like i belong there and i don't really feel like i belong
there i kind of like rap music but i also like believe that there's god and everything so when
i leaned into who i am and accepted myself fully and showed up that way i attracted a pretty large
group of people who are looking for the same thing and i teach spiritual lessons once a week to two

(04:42):
different groups i have one-on-one clients and it's just amazing to see the people that come to
me they're all very pragmatic practical people software engineers lawyers people in that went
down the road the more tren um traditional route in life to success but have recognized
that they're missing some inner success and inner peace and i'm able to bridge that gap for them so
that's what i'm really passionate about and that's what i do for a living so that's me

(05:08):
yeah that's that's awesome to hear it it's fun to to hear stories like that because it's
so i feel like it's so easy when you get into spirituality and seeing yourself as something
bigger but also nothing at the same time to kind of latch on to that spiritual ego
so keeping that in mind that that it doesn't have to go that way and almost keeping that

(05:32):
lack of sense of self while also understanding that you are able here and now to have influence
on things is kind of the key that i try to keep in mind for the most part because as this sort of
journey progresses people even other people will start saying that you are a guru or a teacher or
something so just keeping in mind that there isn't as much me as as you may think can can help i

(05:59):
you know absolutely i'll say that i learned that lesson the hard way like most lessons i've learned
that through pain and a lot of struggle um asking myself like well can i be this and this like can i
make peace with all parts of me and that also comes back to that aha moment of being whole
and i've just learned that yeah you can be all the things like you don't really need to
there isn't one type of spiritual person when i started becoming more spiritual i was afraid to

(06:21):
show certain parts of myself and i think that um the more i lean into that the more i invite
more people into the world of spirituality because yeah you can like nice things and not be attached
to them like you can like making money and not see your value and how much money you're making right
so it's just balancing all these things that people feel like they have to choose between
um that i've found i had to learn the hard way i can accept and now i offer that as well

(06:45):
i think that might be the only way to learn it i'm going to pass this back out to
tanya there but the fact is i think that going through the hard way is the only way to really
drill it in otherwise it becomes a superficial concept and we tend to lose it when when things
get stressful absolutely ray and i just wanted to say that that really leads us to the both
and conversation like being able to hold back both at the same time and sometimes

(07:10):
we're learning um often through psychedelic journeys that when things get really hard the more
we move into a state of let go the more courageous we are at standing at the edge of the unknown
and falling more into self-trust the more we can let go the more we have momentum to come back up
so we begin to like move a little bit more fluidly remembering that all things in nature really have

(07:33):
this constant of change and up and down and so the both and and then um leaning into duality is like
you know just a beautiful conversation yeah absolutely i get caught up in that idea all the
time of like the shoulds and the shouldn'ts and now it's it's like i was always such a rigid type
of person with goals and structures and and the last few months i've been less so i've been much

(07:59):
more free and just very much lacking structure and and there are times where it comes up where i
feel like i want to set a goal or want to do something and i'm like no i shouldn't do
that but then it's like oh there is no should or shouldn't it's that itself that sort of mentality
that there is a should or shouldn't is what i'm getting out of so it's almost like when you get to

(08:21):
one side it can it can kind of pull you back to the other and what we've talked about quite a
few times on the podcast because it's been something i've been going through for the
last few months is just finding that balance like going back and forth until you sort of like settle
kind of like a pendulum swinging back to this sort of center balance of understanding that you can

(08:42):
live in this illusion of duality while not taking it so seriously and you can
be involved in things like make money and want to make money and do all these things like
taylor said without giving that understanding that that doesn't define you and your value i
love the conversation around like um sexual identity because if you talk to someone who

(09:04):
is transitioning per se they talk about you know people think that coming out of the closet happens
one day but it's actually this continual state of transformation and also let go and grieving
of the previous life and that happens to us when we wake up it's like we don't just wake up one day
and everything's you know stagnant and still and one place of goodness it's always going to be this

(09:30):
continual emergence so i just i really like that analogy yeah i actually that analogy has come up
for me recently a lot where i feel like i come out of my own little closets all the time and i have
to present new versions of myself to the people around me and see how they're gonna respond to it
especially my dad who is like a very traditional immigrant you know first generation american like

(09:51):
he's just you know i mean i'm first generation american he came to america with no language
nothing he's like what is wrong with you girl like you're going crazy like no i'm actually doing
great but i have to present like new versions of myself so i actually can relate to that and i use
that analogy all the time because i think that it does take courage to shed that skin and sit

(10:12):
with the vulnerability of being in that transition of growing new identity that you also know you're
gonna let go of eventually right so it's it's a constant process of coming out of the closet
again and again and again in my opinion at least yeah of course not to diminish what it's like
to actually have to move through that but it is interesting because i spearheaded a movement with
with this and i i totally agree it's like how many what's the new version today like you know totally

(10:38):
uh we're the more we know the more we don't know and the more we are ready to be open and listen
and like that childlike wonder is where it's at so yeah absolutely well it's interesting that
vulnerability is is so important to growing because when we're not vulnerable we can't in
any way be sensitive to the reality that we're experiencing we can't be sensitive to the the

(11:00):
situations that we're in or the opportunities that are in front of us and it's because we
have this idea of what's going to happen or what will happen or what we fear might happen
and it blocks us off from everything that's happening actually as us or or to us and so
we have to accept vulnerability and uncertainty just to have the ability to grow and to find
that next iteration of ourselves otherwise we're just locked in protecting ourselves

(11:24):
from a fear that is perpetuated by our idea of ourself so it becomes this this vicious loop
where it's like we become afraid we double down on our coping mechanism which makes
us more afraid you have to just go i'm afraid and just look at it in order to learn from it
yeah i really appreciated you telling me your story when we first got on here before we were

(11:45):
recording i mean you did that so well like the more we can get in these groups and have these
conversations and reveal ourselves like they are so powerful you know the medicine is in these
stories and this um vulnerability and almost you know bearing the heart of nudity and and reality
because the more especially as i speak to people who are doing psychedelic work the true people

(12:05):
that are really on the path realize that a lot of our suffering is so the same and so many people
are suffering so how quickly can we get naked with people and tell you know in a metaphorical sense
and um you know just connect it's funny i give an analogy right about that vulnerability at the
beginning of my my course where i say it's kind of like you're wearing heels that are not only

(12:27):
not comfortable they're also just a little small and you're afraid to take your shoes off because
you don't want to walk barefoot because that also is not so pleasant to walk barefoot on the street
but then you find out you could actually wear uggs like you could wear comfortable shoes
and yeah it's you know you have to take shoes off to put a new pair of shoes on but there's also
that period of time we have to be brave enough to be barefoot and maybe expose yourself to some

(12:48):
other forms of pain but it's all meaningful it's all so you can get to a place where you can push
you to fit and put the shoes that you choose to wear and change shoes you know so um that always
speaks to people they're like wow that makes so much sense i'm like yeah you know you're
holding on to these heels because you're like anything but being barefoot i'm like but they're
not comfortable they're not serving you you're really suffering while you're wearing them so yeah

(13:10):
absolutely i just want to share quickly um i had to take i had to learn that lesson to such
a degree at one point where i realized everything about my life in society my apartment my job you
know my relationships my friends everything was something that i was perceiving through the lens
of need i needed it right and whether or not i was working on myself or not whether or not i was

(13:32):
i was trying to address that need it was always so easy to give into it just because they're your
friends just because it's what's familiar it's what's what's known to you and and it it got to
the point where i had so much dissonance happening within me from from seeing where i wanted to go
versus where i was that i actually just sold everything i sold everything i told the the
person i was with that i'm leaving i'm going to the forest to build shack and try and survive and

(13:57):
and i did that and she decided to come with me so the two of us went to the rain forest of vancouver
island we lived in a shack for eight months in the forest we built it out of scrap wood and stuff
that we found down by the the beach and the dock and we were living off mussels and dandelions and
it was just eight months of cold wet discomfort and it was the most happy moment or part of my

(14:19):
life i've ever experienced because there was no reason for me to be happy it was totally choice
it was completely i can access any emotion i'm in right now that's available to me right now which
is all of them so i'm going to choose this one and that's what that taught me eight months later the
world no longer made a dent i came back to society and it was no longer through the the lens of need

(14:40):
or opposition it was i'm whole and complete myself but i actually needed to take that step
into that discomfort to realize what i was capable of beautiful ray thank you so much that's gorgeous
yeah i feel like with when it comes to that vulnerability aspect a lot of people have
this idea of what it is and and we kind of build up these walls and try to not be and even as you

(15:06):
know all of us are some creators to some degree trying to for the most part help people with their
struggles and i found it interesting when it comes to the vulnerability aspect because a lot of times
we think we know what people need and the reality is that we don't so a lot of times if i'm you know
on a podcast or anything like that and i try to express that there are times when i when i'm kind

(15:32):
of nervous going into a podcast and people think that showing this side of them where they are more
vulnerable that they're not maybe super positive that they've been feeling down or something i see
so many videos of creators being like i wasn't sure i was gonna share this but because i know
you guys come to my page for positivity but i've just been feeling down recently i've been feeling

(15:53):
very anxious and i'm watching that video and i'm like this is probably the most helpful video
you've ever made for people because people are suffering because they feel like they're alone
in what they're going through and that they're the only one going through it and the reality is
they're not everyone's just pretending that they're not going through the same types of things
so we never really know when it comes to that so vulnerability it just comes back to that because

(16:16):
we never actually know even though we have an idea because everyone says what you should and
shouldn't do andre i actually want to say that i was going through my own little uh darkness
the last few days like i was going through my own little trip to you know that place where
you know you kind of feel like well maybe i forgot everything i know nothing uh it's such a dark life

(16:37):
but i was i actually thought of a video that you made when i was in that moment i'm like andrew has
moments like these two and he's pretty well going so i wanted to thank you for that because it's
it really is helpful to remember that yeah these are just this is just kind of part of life doing
doing life like you're going to have these moments where you kind of lose sight of
that truth and that energy or that feeling that awareness that brings you that those feelings of

(17:00):
of joy and happiness you know they they come and they go and yeah i think seeing people like you
say those things is really more helpful than than you think and i i would also say people
ask me all the time like where did this business come from because i didn't really plan to be a
coach i didn't really plan to teach people it was just during when covet started i started to share
my own wisdom and things i was learning and i was into spirituality personal development and

(17:23):
i attracted a lot of clients from just talking about problems that i was going through and how
i'm choosing to solve them people saw themselves in me and i always tell other coaches like
when you show how you work through your own problems people don't think of you as someone
who knows more than them they think of you as someone who can guide them through something
they've been through so yeah i'm totally of that life and will always share both sides

(17:44):
i think it's just so valuable and so needed in this world more than ever it's interesting to
come from a nursing perspective because especially everything that i'm learning now
with psychedelic integration and sitting with our own discomfort nurses and if there's any nurses
listening we fix everything we will fix it so fast and so strongly you didn't even know what happened

(18:07):
and the work that i'm doing now and what i'm hoping to really move into more
is that we do recognize that everyone has their inner their own inner healer and in the
psychedelic integration world we really just need to make space for that to happen so i'm stepping
into this whole space of i don't fix anything and we sit as as uncomfortable as possible

(18:32):
for as long as possible and i have i have resolved as a mother and as a nurse my whole life every
single problem and so this is a new world being on the edge of this unknown and um and i know it's
for you guys too just being okay with the unknown and moving more into that self trust it's it's a
real fun place to be so if anybody's out there that's still like hesitating like please just

(18:54):
just keep going like you will find that one foot in front of the other the next best thing the next
best podcast the next best per person to lead you to where you're running towards your passion and
that's one of the things that i just absolutely love about you know the psychedelic work is like
and and i know andrew can attest to this is falling back in love with your creativity

(19:15):
and um and your ability to learn i mean oh it's just so juicy yeah absolutely it's funny uh one
thing when i was life coaching i liked coach for years before i i stepped away from it it was just
the most useful tool was just acknowledging people feel things like and that it's normal to do so and
that would be most of my clients they would come in expressing anxiety or you know just

(19:37):
fear or anything like that insecurity all the results of just thinking about themselves and
over committing to that mentality as a whole and i'd say well of course of course you feel that way
and you could just feel the weight lift like what do you mean of course it's like well look
at all the stuff you're juggling like look at all the things you're holding on to of course
you feel this way now be nice to yourself and let's acknowledge that now that we've

(19:58):
recognized that it's changing it's already changing right it's just awareness it's just
being aware of what's happening and that awareness changes the path and so most of my life coaching
was okay let's talk about what's happening see you later and then well anything like you want me to
work on anything like that here's an insight chew on that see what happens right but it was always i

(20:20):
know as soon as you're out of here that your life will facilitate the next lesson all you need to do
is keep your eyes open get yourself out of the way and that lesson will open itself up to you it's
always there like reality is always seamlessly integrated with whatever state of mind that
we're going through so the door is always there so long as we can see it and so it was never on

(20:40):
me as a life coach i i started it was on me when i first started i was like i have to have all
the answers and that was very stressful and then i realized yeah they're me they're the
exact same awareness that i am so when people say like well what would ray do and i said this
in one of our podcasts whatever it is you're doing trust yourself you you've got the answer
you just need to to settle into uncertainty and allow your intelligence to start playing with it

(21:07):
i think one of them one of the biggest aha moments i had actually in the last year was
the power of sitting with pain and not fighting it resisting it trying to get away from it um
and i think that's when that's when i was convinced that it's better to take the shoes off
because i was like you know what um i think it was in the untethered soul where he says
avoiding pain causes deeper pain and more pain or different types of pain and i realize okay well

(21:31):
if all options are painful all roads are painful i want the road with the meaningful pain i want
the road with the pain that's going to bring about growth that has some form of you know
process that i'm going through not just suffering unnecessary suffering for the
sake of suffering and i think that when people understand that yeah you can just sit with the
pain and let the pain kind of wash over you and i see it like a wave you know swimming against the

(21:55):
wave or running away from the wave just like stay still let the wave wash over you it's going to go
back to where it came from you know it's going to wash back into the ocean so i think that's
been one of the biggest lessons for me is even now like you know there's times like where you
feel like you're riding the wave the high the high wave and then there's times you're like a little
bit lower at the moment i'm kind of in that place and i'm just watching it i'm observing it i think

(22:16):
that awareness is so powerful when you're able to just kind of see it from the outside and be like
this is fascinating i always tell my clients when you see these things instead of judging them just
call it fascinating because it really is interesting where did this come from where what's
what is this what's happening here you know um and that self-exploration has been so healing for me
just to sit with it and try to understand it on deeper levels and not judge it or fight it yeah

(22:39):
i i feel like a lot of times that suffering comes back to the idea that thinking that things should
be at all different than they are that you should be at all different than you are right now or your
situation should be at all different than it is right now and understanding that it shouldn't
and beyond that it couldn't because that is the way that it is right now so having that additional

(23:01):
resistance like sure there is pain sure there are things that you go through sure there are ups and
downs throughout your life but thinking that they should be different than they are is what layers
on and like keeps that suffering just worse makes it worse and worse and thinking that things should
be different is a lot of times what it comes down to and i think something that's helped me
is just understanding that i don't know where this situation is going to lead like kind of relaxing

(23:26):
into that uncertainty and realizing that even though this situation that i'm in right now
seems objectively bad it seems horrible in the moment i don't know i don't know what this is
going to lead to i don't know what path is going to take me down so relaxing into that
ebb and flow of life and understanding that inevitably there's going to be ups and downs and

(23:48):
understanding that i don't know what is actually good or bad because i don't know what something's
going to lead to i can't see the bigger picture just relaxing into that uncertainty has been a
huge key for me yeah the element of allowing you know the dsm-5 doesn't have or say that as a human
being you're allowed to have certain amount of sad days like nobody tells you that like like

(24:13):
that's not we we don't have to diagnose ourselves all the time we don't have to judge ourselves so
hard like we are allowed to be human and the best way to facilitate that easing grace is knowing
that you're not alone doing that and and fostering community i don't care who your friends have to be
but can you tell them the truth because those are your friends and they're so valuable you know yes

(24:35):
i actually would love to raise a question that is something that i personally do struggle with
sometimes but i've also recently heard a lot of people have asked me this question recently
i'd just love to hear your guys's answer to it um people are like taylor why doesn't this work bring
isn't life easier when you know less right um and there's definitely times where i i entertain that
thought but i think that i suffered way more when i was unaware and unconscious than i do now at the

(25:00):
same time there's times where i feel like it's a lonely it's a lonely place to be sometimes in
this world you know when you see the way the world works outside of what you're aware of um there are
times where i feel very alone you know i feel like whoa like i really have to speak i call it
bubble language because people are in bubbles i'm like i have to speak in bubble language because i
don't want to poke people's bubbles like that are not asking for their bubbles to be poked you know

(25:23):
people and i'm in with my dad's friends when i'm with girls from my high school that just
haven't gone through this path i'm very much of the belief that you should be your philosophy
not preach it i don't go around trying to get people to seek this truth that's not my
job i've learned the hard way that that does the opposite if anything it does more harm than good
but uh it's very rare that i come across people that i could speak to at the level that of my my

(25:46):
own awareness and it sometimes can be lonely and it's sometimes not the most fun place to be in
the world that we live in today even just being on social media like i consume way less content than
i create i don't follow any stories i follow very specific people but even when i find myself seeing
things it could take me down a very dark hole of like wow so many people are just not aware so many

(26:09):
people are not with it um and it makes me sad and it also makes me feel like okay this is this is a
scary place to be sometimes you know maybe i i kind of wish i was one of them maybe i wouldn't
wouldn't feel this way but i would love to hear your own experiences because i'm sure that you've
all either gone through this experience or you know going through it and i'd just love
to hear other people talk about it i just have to say that i've heard a lot um about you know

(26:33):
obviously we have our own dark night of the soul but there is something that's happening as far as
the dark knight of the globe and it is heavy stuff watching the more conscious we you know become we
really become aware of some stuff that are that's so heartbreaking that we can't even stomach it you
know some i was talking in one of the psychedelic communities about just the plastic in the ocean

(26:55):
you know there's stuff like that that is just so heart-wrenching and um it breaks our heart but we
are still walking each other home and so the more human and heartfelt that we can be
in these spaces you know that's it i mean we're we're not alone we're together and that's one of
the benefits of psychedelics is that you really do feel that um non-ordinary state of connection

(27:20):
and it's just so beautiful and we don't need psychedelics to get there like you can be in a
workout class that's extraordinary or be you know listening to an authentic speaker that just breaks
every barrier um these are also non-ordinary states so the non-ordinary is is my personal
answer by the way i think when it comes to the bigger things i used to i used to get there when i

(27:42):
watched you know under become more aware of things on climate change and even during the the pandemic
like i think with the bigger things i've learned to surrender and kind of see it as you know
well not necessary but i just kind of trust the bigger force of the universe that we are getting
the we're going through the same way i would apply to my own life when i go through something hard i
seek the meaning in it and i see it as something that's leading me to growth and i see that for the

(28:04):
planet and sometimes it even brings me peace to say who said that this planet's supposed
to exist for that long like who said you know like why why sometimes that brings me peace but
it's more in my day-to-day interactions where it's like of course i can carry light and spread light
and see that it works but sometimes i'm like wow they're just it's it's um hard to find people to

(28:25):
speak to on the late at the level that i that i can speak to them um and that sometimes just makes
life very difficult if that makes sense you know social interaction small talk you're just like
wow i'm just putting a mask on and playing this game and i really am not of this life i don't
know how to explain it like you're better but i see andrew and ray and you also funny you guys

(28:48):
are laughing because you probably know what i'm talking about but i'd love to hear more
yeah yeah i uh i know this one well i feel like i'm right in the heart of that sort of experience
i could tell yeah i've talked to ray we talked about this on the podcast we've talked about
it like offline like off recorded episodes and i had a point was it like two and a half weeks ago

(29:12):
that i was just so overwhelmed it was on a sunday and and ray said he could tell that
things were getting heavier for me and i was just like i just cried for like a full day i
i didn't even have specific thoughts as to why it was just like this weight and just overwhelm
of sort of uncertainty and and what i wanted to do with things while also being

(29:39):
sort of awake in this dream that that i was getting pushback from people who
thought that i was acting much differently than i should be and people i had relied on in the past
to sort of have this comfort and all the things and identity based things that i used to rely on
in the past were not there and a part of me would like wanted to cling to them so bad and i was like

(30:03):
[ __ ] it like my ego is like andrew just just grab on just grab on i got you i'm like no
but then at the same time i didn't feel good either so it was it was difficult to not do so
and it's kind of become a choice every day because i know that nothing that i do will add anything to

(30:24):
myself whereas in the past it was like this sort of hope to add things to myself and i was talking
to ray about this recently how what people don't realize i think when when you start being less
afraid of things because there is less identity involved in things and less of this egoic kind of
illusion that you're trying to build up but also simultaneously afraid of getting torn down

(30:49):
when you're no longer afraid of it getting torn down you also know that there's nothing that's
going to build it up so you don't get that like kind of feel good build up type thing
i don't even know how to describe it so like that isn't there either so you're just kind of settled
in this neutrality and yes settled into yes this moment of like infinite potentialities but it's so

(31:14):
unknown and uncertain and all of those things that it's kind of uncomfortable because it is so new so
i'm currently in that state right now and what i'm finding is that yeah like i've had a pretty busy
week with like work has been very busy but then i also have had a few guest podcast appearances

(31:36):
and just like interviews and stuff like that and i'm finding that like going into those i'm i'm
excited for them and i really enjoy them and talks like this is what i really enjoy doing so just
continuing to do more of those things and kind of express these ideas authentic and as vulnerably as
i can is really what i'm passionate about so just doing more of that i think will naturally kind of

(32:00):
ease those discomforts but i know that it's it's a process as well and it's not
going to happen overnight but at the same time it's going to happen now whenever it does so
yeah that's a little bit of what i've been going through recently
that's great um i've been at this for a long time i i uh i woke up when i was about 21. i'm 42 now

(32:24):
um so about half my life i've been working respect um under the awareness that i'm not what i think
i am right and that no matter what i think i am it's just a facet and recognizing everybody's me
and when i first woke up that was actually really quite difficult because i think it was like 2003
2001 2002 somewhere in there but it was after 9 11. basically everything the world was not in a

(32:49):
happy place and everybody was very afraid and here i am saying like you know there's nothing
fear we're all one blah that was not received well um that that upset quite a few people and i was
not the kind of person see i i don't because i came out of hell i was so very angry when i
woke up at all of the things that i i blamed for putting me to sleep that i was just tearing at all

(33:12):
of them i didn't care what it was i was talking to government officials i was talking priests i
was going into temples i was just like hey let's talk and that didn't always go very well i upset a
lot of people and i caused a lot of turbulence but in that i also recognized that there's a
certain sensitivity that you develop over time you start realizing that sometimes turbulence is good
sometimes it's just not worth it because if you're if you're viewed as the source of

(33:36):
what's irritating them they're not listening to your point anymore they're looking at you
right and so it's being able to feel that it's like when am i the problem as opposed
to what i'm saying because as long as what i'm saying is the problem we're having a dialogue
but as soon as i'm the villain the conversation's over and so over time i more or less learned to
keep my head down uh to a very large degree i had a youtube channel when i first came out of

(33:58):
the rainforest and i was making videos about the law the uniform commercial code government
religion everything else and i was upsetting quite a few people but i was also getting
a lot of followers and those followers started looking at me in a way that made me uncomfortable
they started looking at me in a way like oh ray has all the answers and so i shut down my account
i i left youtube behind and i spent the next 15 years or so just working on myself under the

(34:22):
the the insight that who am i trying to convince if it's just me right it's just me so it's just
getting it myself and so i worked on that and then last december my daughter's like you know get onto
tick tock and she bugged me about it for like two months so i'm like fine so i did so i did that but
over those 15 years that i was silent you go back and forth between being happy or awake and

(34:47):
then wondering why the hell you're awake like what the hell woke me up in a world that's essentially
still sleeping for the most part and so at one point i'm like yeah look at me you know i woke up
and then i'm like i didn't know because there was really no reason that i should have so it more or
less just happened right so there's no need to wake up and and so you oscillate in and out of
this idea of yourself and that's what causes the isolation and the loneliness that's what causes

(35:10):
the borders it's all of a sudden i'm alone yeah in that you're all one so i mean alone is very
much the same as as as it's the same as saying whole yes you are whole that is correct there is
no one else outside of that wholeness right but that just means everybody's you so you're never
alone in that you're always home and so you kind of go back and forth with that and i did for a

(35:34):
very long time and admittedly the only thing that made that isolation end was the recognition that
it was always revolving around the illusion of myself always it always came back to i think this
done as soon as i was in that i was in the trap right because all of our illusions start with eye
so as i let that go i started experiencing more sensitivity and more empathy and what's funny is

(35:57):
that i go into a conversation now almost not even touching the idea of myself and i'll dance through
that conversation like if it's a fun beat to dance to and and i'll come out the other side and
as with the podcast i'll go what did i just say because i don't know and it doesn't matter because
i'm just serving my purpose because again we are whole yeah and this is life like this is life

(36:21):
happening right now and it's not easy but it is so beautiful and we're given this opportunity to see
the sunrise and then the sun sets segmenting you know these days and giving us an opportunity for
a more ritualistic life like we're given this again and again and and there's people in our
life that really need to have conversations or to have that next hug and it's just um

(36:46):
you know going back to the idea of we are just here to walk each other home it's like this is the
campfire like sit here in the day um i don't know if it's just because i'm on the west coast but
i don't i don't feel um alone the more i learn the more i see that there are just fantastically
beautiful humble people doing incredibly gorgeous poetic work and um and we're really rising i mean

(37:14):
we are rising up and connecting and sharing and inspiring others and that is just so beautiful
that's my favorite thing is to you know raise up that flag and to hold it strong look at my
flag and like you know look at your flags like let's do this everybody can do it we can make it
through to another day of that ritualistic life yeah i honestly yeah i think i just get i even

(37:36):
get overwhelmed by how good how much good there is you know also like it's not even just this
overwhelming feeling of how many people are asleep even when i come in contact with people who don't
where i meet them where on deeper levels and they maybe have even met themselves and i could see the
beauty of their soul just shining from them it's i could it can bring me to tears genuinely just
i love human beings i love connecting with people and sometimes it's like i'm also resistant to the

(38:01):
light the light is also really powerful and overwhelming sometimes like i sometimes feel
like if i actually genuinely walked out into the world the way i feel internally how grateful i
can feel how present i can feel that's also very overwhelming um so it's about finding this balance
of like how do i how do i stay sane honestly is the question like yeah i'm really afraid at

(38:23):
the grocery store like to be honest like i don't know why and my husband was always the one who was
having anxiety in the grocery store i totally do not like the grocery store anymore and so that's
weird so in that way i'm like this totally sucks i don't i feel zero connection in the grocery store
you know i guess what i'm referring to more is just you know because i'm a podcaster myself

(38:44):
and like you know just doing learning in all these cool groups so in that way i do but in
the real reality of going to the grocery store i am like get in and get out as fast as you can and
that's totally new you know things are definitely changing i i will say that in in the last 20 years
i've i've watched it i and just like i said when i first woke up having this conversation was not

(39:07):
fun it was very much oh what did i do i'm gonna leave and just stop at one point i remember
somebody calling me a non-conformist which was funny to me because it's like where did you even
get that word you're like 18. um but the point is is that over the last 20 years and i think this is
exacerbated by the discomfort that our system is causing because our system is egotistical right

(39:27):
it doesn't know anything except lack and control and so every time it comes around and does what
it's designed to do which is create lack and need control somebody ends up getting ostracized
somebody ends up getting oppressed somebody ends up getting uncomfortable and they have to almost
open their eyes and look at the world for what it is so we have the fall or the economic laxman 2008

(39:48):
and then occupy wall street what's happening now with the trucker convoy and everything else i mean
these are all things that are making a larger and larger and larger portion of our society
recognize that this society isn't built for them and yeah and the same thing can be said about the
our health care system right now in this life in the psychedelic renaissance like we're having this
huge cultural shift again in this um incredible lack of sacred space and depth in our health care

(40:14):
and it's um we're really being asked to step up and it's shaking it's ground shaking so healthcare
oh my heart just goes out for i just hope that we can hold each other better
it's really scary because i feel like even collectively it's i'm afraid to shed the ego
of our collective like you know the systems like i could feel within myself that i've gone to a

(40:36):
place where i kind of find this groove where i can be i have the courage to like shed the skin and
vulnerability and everything and i'm like reinvent yourself but sometimes i ask myself wow if
everything like am i ready for that collectively sometimes i even feel my own resistance to
seeing the world change and that's something that maybe i don't say out loud as much as
you know very often but um it's the truth like and and i think it's it's just to validate that it is

(41:00):
scary to change it is scary to let go of what's familiar even if what's familiar isn't serving us
on the highest level and i recognize that there is a part of me that's like wait do i actually
want everyone to wake up wait do i actually want to have everything be fair and equal which
is absurd because obviously yes but there's it's funny when you realize that even collectively you

(41:21):
hold on to the ego you're you're still attached to these things because you're so afraid of the
unknown and what's unfamiliar to you um so yeah there's this um group called open nurses and i
just kind of have to bring this up because it's speaks to the point of people not being ready
for change and they're always like okay you got to be really quiet because there was a nurse in

(41:42):
tennessee or something that spoke about her psychedelic experiences and she was reported
to the board and they decided that she had a drug problem and it just got really bad and i'm
thinking who are these people that don't want health care workers to start looking outside
the box like who are you like we we have to we have to hold each other better so it's just

(42:04):
crazy but there are and not to say that you feel that way at all but but yes it's uncomfortable
yes it's terrifying yes we're at the edge of the unknown and i'm so glad you said that because
we can talk about oh yeah we're you know sitting in our own trust of the unknown like andrew said
this is new this is new for me and this it's hard every day it's like okay i have no idea where the

(42:25):
where the pieces are going to fall and i sit and i do my due diligence in waiting and not pushing
and that is so hard you know yeah it's like realizing that on the other side of that you
know fear and worry and all of that it's not all sunshine and rainbows necessarily but and while
it is uncomfortable it's it's happening and it's gonna settle and and things are happening in our

(42:52):
society across you know psychedelic legalization hopefully you know within the next decade or so
um with cryptocurrency all of this is sort of going against the system kind of simultaneously
and they may not even realize all the time with things like rey ray has spoken about um canada's

(43:12):
laws with psychedelics have been had been shifting and they're legalizing i mean uh marijuana is
legal across most places now and then psychedelics like mushroom psilocybin are medically legal now
in canada so it's like while at the same time they are restricting us in so many ways with lockdowns
and and all that stuff we don't have to get too deep into that but um but then at the same time

(43:38):
they're legalizing all these things that promote freedom and free thinking and openness and kind of
the ability not necessarily that it's going to guarantee anything but more of an ability to
wake up and then see things for how they are and see things a little bit more clearly because for
so long we have promoted things like alcohol and drugs like that that do not promote clarity they

(44:02):
promote fuzziness and trust in the system because they keep us down and things like that whereas now
while at the same time they're trying to to squeeze hold very tight they're also doing
all these other things because we're almost it's almost their hands getting forced in a way that
they're not able to keep it down as much as they would like so they're like okay we'll we'll give

(44:25):
them that and we'll give them that but then we're going to take away this and they're trying to do
all these things at once not realizing that at the end of the day that they don't have the ultimate
control though they think they do and and as you can see the more that comes out like
for cryptocurrency for example they they come out with all these things about how it's not
energy conscious and they're doing everything they can to kind of promote this mentality of oh it's

(44:48):
not what we want well at the same time the current systems you know ray has mentioned like they don't
look at how much energy banks consume like we have a ton of physical banks across the the world like
why aren't we looking at why are we comparing the energy usage there because you'll never hear about
things like that so it's it's happening whether whether we like it or not and i i'm behind it

(45:12):
yeah that's a really good point isn't it because you were saying that on the one hand here i think
here's the system that's perpetuating you know oppression and control and doing all that and on
the other hand you have people who are pushing psilocybins psychedelics other mentalities you
have people like ourselves who are having this conversation and so this is always my point in
that when you look at the world the world as it is and and our idea of it it can get very dark

(45:36):
they can get very it's just like looking at a company or a government and going you know oh
they're they're oppressing people but that company is not the company that government's
not the government it's made up of individual people and all of those individual people have
different mentalities and different intentions and different and different uh experiences in their
life so you have an organization you know oh that government's evil but some of the people within it

(45:57):
are trying to do good things not recognizing that the nature of the system they work within and so
instead of trying to topple governments instead of trying to topple uh institutions or structures
that have been there forever it's just about this conversation it's just about
clarity and expressing clarity and sharing clarity and experiencing freedom and as we do that
our priorities start to shift but it's not going to be until that priority shifts that we see the

(46:22):
world change in the way that we're talking about right now it's kind of like i asked somebody
i think this is one of my earlier tick tock videos but if i told you you would
never be afraid of judgment again would you be willing to give up judging others
and oddly a lot of people said no and it's just because that is their entire basis for value
they don't understand how else to live how else to evaluate themselves how how else to

(46:46):
have that sense of certainty so they're like they willingly perpetuate their own pain because they
haven't recognized that the benefit that they've committed to is the source of that pain and so all
we're doing is we're just questioning the carrot that we've been repeatedly offered in terms of
certainty and control and identity and we're going it's a poison carrot it doesn't actually have the

(47:09):
reward that you think it does and as we start to recognize that our priorities shift automatically
right but we're we're so used to the idea of change by force somebody actually said this
to me once they're like the only way to change somebody is to change their is to force their
opinion to change it's like no but you can lead by example you can just change yourself and then
allow them to do whatever they want oddly enough that person later on years later went i don't

(47:33):
understand you but i've always wanted to and so i'm starting to think about it it's like exactly
it doesn't require us to do any work right it's just about who you are and everybody kind of takes
you know their own direction from there yeah you know it's interesting because i know that
the dalai lama for example was asked um if he how to work with our own inner critic and

(47:57):
everyone you know in the west like we have this in extraordinary you know speaking to judgment
extraordinary inner critic and it was really a concept he's like i thought i knew the mind but i
i don't understand that and if you look at how um you know in that area of the world children
are raised so much differently it's so there's so much grace so i think that you know we can look

(48:19):
at the world from our western perspective but we are raised in a culture where we do develop this
intense inner critic and it the inner critic does kind of feed into that capitalistic model
that we're just so frustrated with so the the west is like sitting with us at this place of like okay
the best way to work with that inner critic is to forgive let go forgive let go forgive

(48:42):
let go until we can get to a place to where it's it's it's a non-issue but we're we're
kind of particular in the way that we're raised in this in this culture it's very interesting
we've talked about that in the past and i've talked about that idea of judgment and it's

(49:03):
interesting how if i post a video about you know like people really aren't thinking about you as
much as you think a lot of times people will be like no you're wrong i think about people
all the time so it's pretty funny how and i'll admit this for myself like our perception dictates
our reality so so for me i don't really think about other people very much not in like a selfish

(49:25):
way i just i just don't i'm a busy guy like i don't have much time to think about other people
very much and even when i do i just see them as another version of myself so it's like you know
what is there to judge anyway they've just been on a different path than i am like who am i to judge
that so i find it fascinating when people are like oh well i judge other people and then those
are also the people following me like hoping to overcome their anxieties and whatnot so it's like

(49:50):
what if you started as ray just mentioned by not judging other people and then maybe you would
see that they aren't judging you as much or you wouldn't notice it as much because it's almost
like we notice in other people all of our own insecurities in that way like we're always just
judging ourselves so maybe if you stop judging yourself and stop judging everyone else around you

(50:11):
you wouldn't feel so much judgment simultaneously yeah i actually interesting go ahead tanya oh
sorry i just can't believe that people reach out and say that i'm also like you where i don't spend
a lot of time thinking about that so that's a very unique and interesting perspective i wanted to say
that i actually went through my own experience to learn this and i and i tell this to people because
most of my teaching is taught through my own self you know journey and my experience and

(50:36):
you know i was raised in la and always was you know everything was about how do you look what
car do you drive what bag do you have and like i i think just deep i never deeply connected to that
so that measure of self-worth and i always was fighting my environment but at the same time
trying to be accepted by it uh which also led me to leave la as soon as i could and i actually
moved to the middle east when i was 18 by myself and joined the army and also did my own little

(50:59):
version of getting rid of all materialistic things um which we can discuss you could ask questions in
a minute but um i told people that when i used to walk into a room and look at how people are
dressed and if they gained weight or lost weight or what plastic surgery they did then i carried
the belief that there are more people like me in that room but as soon as i walk into a room and i

(51:21):
don't give a [ __ ] what people look like and what bag they're hold like what bags on their
arm or what their husband looks like then then at least i have hope that there might be someone else
in the room like me and i know that there are for sure people in the room that are like my past self
but i know that it comes from a lot of pain and i have compassion for those people so
i kind of recognize that if there are people judging me then i recognize that as their own

(51:44):
judgment for themselves their own you know prison that they're living life through and as long as
i'm the one person or at least i'm experiencing this this um i'm walking into this room without
judgment i know there might be someone that like me like that's that answers the question in my
opinion when i answer that question to people because they say the same thing to me andrew
and i'm like people aren't thinking about you as much as you think i get that response as well

(52:08):
i give them that answer i'm like yo there probably are people who are thinking about you but you
could also have compassion for them because that's not a fun place to live from and there are also
people who aren't and you want to be one of those people it'll help you believe that they're there
once you're one of them so that's my own personal experience so interesting you know i come from a
background similar to race like i was on my own really young and like it was crazy so i'm really

(52:31):
curious to see what you think ray like where where was your mentality as far as because i i can't
imagine you being consumed with what at any point well after you woke up with what people think no
no after i woke up i started realizing there were no other people and that that very much changed
the entire experience for me and i just realized that no matter what i was projecting onto somebody

(52:54):
else it was it was always me and even if if that person started acting out what i was assuming they
were gonna do that was still me right so it just gave me another opportunity to learn a bit more
about another part of myself and that's very much how i look at it when i'm in a room full of safe
people i'm looking at myself at different varying stages of my development right like i'm a parent
and my daughter's 14 and over the last 14 years i've watched her develop egotistically it's

(53:19):
something i talk about in discover transcendence is a video i made but talks about jane levenger's
stages of ego development basically and that we have to have an idea of ourselves in order to
figure out how we fit in the world and we develop that idea over time and then we
we take it seriously to the point where it becomes a source of conflict and in the stages of ego

(53:39):
development we're supposed to continue questioning it but our entire culture is based around the idea
of identification right and so the same is true in a group of people when i go into a group of people
i'm well aware that a good portion of those people are probably self-absorbed because that's where we
start it's not a judgment that's just the way we grow and more the more people go through hardship

(54:02):
discomfort the more that they realize they're not their idea of themselves more that they're
willing to have the courage to step outside of that narrative that they become used to the more
they can empathize the less that they judge right and so typically when i'm in a room full of people
i'm aware that the people who are judging me don't even see me and the people who aren't judging me
are me right so i have a great time in general and even with the people who are judging

(54:25):
me at one point i used to steer clear of them because it was like oh i don't need that energy
but they can't take anything from me anyway there's nothing they can hurt right so now i
have fun with it i actually throw them a couple of things that they can just make assumptions on and
then that's the best place to be in conversation yeah absolutely it's like you know what the lesson
is here don't make assumptions i'll tell you who i judge um my husband like he is an emotional

(54:50):
cement block and i learned to incredibly value that because that cement block will anchor
any storm it's beautiful but the more i was able to judge my husband um emotionally as like
okay i'm like there's a tunnel to your cement block for your two-year-old self like i had this
whole conceptualization but then i started to see well if he's a cement block what am i and

(55:13):
when i first introduced myself i said you know i'm like this mound of melty sticky push pops and a
firecracker like i'm a freaking wild disaster of excitement and it's just interesting when we take
that conversation of the outside world and bring it back to our personal relationships like who
who more do we judge than our partners you know

(55:38):
yeah no i feel that i've been married for 17 years now this is the the woman who came out to
the rainforest with me so she knows me more than anybody else i mean andrew and i talk once a week
she's been with me for 17 years while i just work through this stuff and so wow giving me so much
help you're giving me so much hope guys just so you know like no because i kind of have come to

(55:59):
this place where i'm like okay i think the more i evolved the more i'm giving up on finding someone
who i could actually vibe with because no da like imagine imagine going on a date and and knowing
these things and like most people are just like trying to have conversations and you're just like
wow i really just will come off looking like a crazy person if i actually talk to you honestly so

(56:20):
i have to really navigate navigate that world very carefully and i've kind of given up on it for now
um but it's you guys are giving me hope because that's usually what it works out yeah for sure i
usually i mean i don't i'm very like unattached to it but i'm very um i have this misconception
probably a limiting belief that the more woke you are the more the more lonely you're gonna be in
life um not actually lonely in the sense that you know you can feel connected everything but

(56:44):
that you're it's harder to find someone to connect with on that level so i'm very happy for you both
well we need we need to heal the brain like the brain we because of the foods in our lives and
the practices and you know the poor choices that we use to resolve our you know dissonance alcohol
use disorder whatever we've really hurt our brains and so we are dealing with people that don't have

(57:08):
healthy brains so that's where like you know psychedelics really come into play like my
husband is um so i'm gonna micro i'm gonna put some shrooms in my in my dates during connections
you know people will talk about mdma as healing marriages but it's not it's not the only thing
like my husband's doing ketamine therapy right now with a physician and i have never felt so um

(57:31):
intimate with this cement block as we can you know hold hands in the evenings um what he's able to do
with it so i just feel like yeah we're talking i guess if we take the conversation away from
woke and um still unconscious to me i really look at it from the scientific perspective of
like those brains need neuroplasticity where can we find it and we can find it in an array

(57:53):
of non-ordinary states like we need to heal our brains we don't understand anything about the
brain we know everything about the heart and the lungs but we are yet to discover so much about the
brain so it's like i'm just so excited for where we're going with the default mode network and kind
of understanding how we can reset ourselves and how we identify and our judgment of the world and

(58:16):
our relationships when we start to work with this whole new exciting arena that was a challenge for
me when i first met my wife um i had been single for a little over three years and it was largely
because my last relationship was before i woke up and it was just a raging dumpster fire largely
on me i'll accept the responsibility for that but so i just didn't want to do that and then i found

(58:39):
myself i woke up and i didn't want to surrender that and then i met my wife melissa and we started
talking and it got to the point where there were several times where i could feel my old my old
need to be liked pop up and i would deliberately say no i'm not doing this i'm not surrendering
myself i remember we had a conversation early on where i said if i ever need you i'm leaving

(59:01):
and it's because i'm no longer myself right and that you don't deserve that neither do i i know
where that's gonna go and she was not happy with that answer with that answer at all i mean that
did not go well right but um eventually it it did work out because we kept talking about it and
in the first three months of our relationship she would either storm out of my house every day or

(59:21):
i would kick her out that was our relationship for the first three months because we came from
such polar opposites in our experience and so the idea behind it was it doesn't matter how
many times we argue what matters is when we give up what matters is that we're not willing to find
that middle ground that we're not willing to go through that turbulence and wear down this idea
of ourselves that's causing that conflict and so in order for a relationship to work in my opinion

(59:45):
in this mentality you have to be willing to let it go you have to be willing to let it to let it just
fade away if that's what it's meant to be and you have to be honest about it going through
it because as soon as you feel trapped as you as soon as you feel like you've
promised to be in this relationship you're no longer in it right it has to be day to day
because what i said to my wife early on is that i if i i'm never going to commit to you

(01:00:09):
i'm going to commit to today if that's not enough it's not it never will be and that was
very difficult for me because i came out of a life where i was extremely needy i didn't have parents
i didn't have much of a support structure i wanted people to love me that was a good portion of my
toxicity and so when i woke up i had to fight all of those habits but i was so clear in the freedom

(01:00:31):
that i was feeling in myself that it was easy to do whereas before when i was struggling to
find that idea of freedom i would have given it up just for the sake of feeling better
you really can always to the fact that it's okay to be a dumpster fire when we start relationships
so that's uh totally true i mean be that raging dumpster fire with that other raging dumpster fire

(01:00:55):
until you figure it out and now we're just a little bit less of a dumpster fire
and i know that i don't want to be a dumpster fire without my cement block of my husband you
know what i mean i i'd honestly um in my last relationship i had this moment where after two
relationships before it that of course i came from a very broken home and was looking for
building home with another person finding home in another human um this third serious boyfriend

(01:01:19):
that i had that you know we broke up recently not recently but like seven months eight months ago
when we first started dating i got really scared of that idea of commitment and so i kind of made
a joke where i was like how about we just say i love you for now and every time we say i love you
let's just say i love you for now are you the love of my life for now um and it became a joke but it
was also after a really deep conversation of me coming to that realization that i want to choose

(01:01:43):
you on a daily basis which also led to a really beautiful conscious uncoupling at the end of it
where we didn't hold on to something that didn't make sense anymore and i never felt more loved by
another person than being let go with with grace and when i decided to break up with this person
he was like you know what i i love you so much and i see that this is good for you and even though

(01:02:04):
this is really hurt like painful i love you enough to let you go and that was the most love i've ever
felt in my life genuinely um and i guess it you know people who come from broken homes it's really
easy to be very cynical and be like okay nothing can last and i was like you know what i'm willing
to have another 30 experiences like that honestly like to love a person to vibe with them to connect

(01:02:25):
with them deeply and to also maybe like let it go um there's something really beautiful in that and
so healing in that and i think people are so unaware of that being an option i definitely
didn't see that as something that could i always thought relationships have to end with drama
and just toxic and just terrible terrible experiences but really true love when you
have a conscious relationship when you're able to see it as a day-to-day choice the letting

(01:02:47):
go can also be really beautiful and feeling as well and not as as dramatic as it is normally
yeah i kind of have like this conversation um this is super embarrassing but um you
know i like to integrate everything in the evenings like i'm a super i want to
talk and my husband can't talk and one of the things i've been talking about is like
you know if i lost you i would miss you so much that even if i had an opportunity to smell your bo

(01:03:13):
i would and i'm like so what about you like if you lost me like why this question is important to me
i have no idea would you want to smell my vo and my husband i mean it's a repeating question until
i feel like i'm gonna get the answer i want he's like no there is no way that i'm ever
going to miss you enough to want to smell you so we're all just coming from different places there

(01:03:38):
yeah absolutely that's that's pretty funny i had a i had a relationship and a similar amount of time
ago about seven or eight months ago and it was it was not like a clean loving break off necessarily
and i realized because it was one of my first more serious relationships and early on i think
there was there were a lot of ideas of each other happening and i feel like posting content publicly

(01:04:05):
is sort of a double-edged sword when it comes to dating because people will get an idea of who you
are but they'll get an idea of who you are so so coming into it they have this idea of who you are
and this sort of expectation of of how you are and for me i'm i've always been sort of like i don't
know lone wolf kind of person where i don't need like i've always had a decent amount of love in

(01:04:32):
my life so i've never looked for it or searched for it or longed for it necessarily and in ways
that some people do sometimes so early on in that relationship there were a lot of just expectations
and this idea of of giving with expectations of getting back whereas i was maybe a little bit more
in the middle where maybe i didn't give quite as much but i also didn't expect anything in return

(01:04:56):
and and these sorts of ideas of all future focus of like you know things like marriage and kids
were brought up fairly early and me being kind of naive to the situation wasn't like
we're not talking about this right now and i didn't run immediately so i was like uh yeah
i just kind of like let it be like i don't know maybe all girls are like this whatever we'll we'll

(01:05:18):
see what happens but it turned into just a lot of those expectations and and continuous sort of
expectations that i didn't feel like i was having so it sort of ended kind of like we both
felt it but then it wasn't like that clean kind of very nice breaking off point it was

(01:05:40):
just kind of like i don't think this is working and it was kind of like from my end it was like
i'm not who you want me to be or need me to be right now and then it was over and
that led a few months later to more phone calls like how horribly things were handled
and blah blah blah but yeah that that is um where i was at but i've never necessarily felt like i

(01:06:04):
needed anything which i guess is kind of a decent mentality to have with things but yeah
then i sometimes go too far where i'm like i don't i don't want i don't want anything
yeah and then it's like too far and it's like bro just like hang out in the middle
chill for a minute yeah things will happen until they happen like you're not in control anyway i

(01:06:24):
was gonna say that you know that was a beautiful beautiful uncoupling but i think one of the you
know i think everyone has their story of what woke them up and you know it's either by choice
or by circumstance and i think that you know i the boyfriend i had before the last one was
completely blind he was actually disabled like he couldn't see it all and i think i found a lot of

(01:06:46):
comfort in that because of my background you know where everything was measured on physical
appearance there was something really deep in being seen by someone who can't see me um and
loved by someone who can't see me who doesn't know what i look like at all but still is attracted to
me for some reason right so that really brought me closer to my true self as well that experience and

(01:07:06):
a lot of people um it ended horribly like he cheated on me actually it was terrible really
really bad bad breakup but people said to me taylor like what kept you there for so long after
he was so terrible to you and i was like you know when you're i fell in love with this man i loved
him so much but people were constantly telling me you're so special wow you're such a unique soul

(01:07:27):
like you're such a special person for being with a blind guy like you could be with anyone and you're
choosing this guy like wow and it got to my ego right and i and i a part of me subconsciously was
attached to you know my self-worth came from being with a blind man because i was being treated like
a special person everywhere i went people would just look at me like i'm an angel sent from heaven

(01:07:49):
and i didn't see myself that way but eventually subconsciously i did and it didn't matter if he
cheated on me or treated me terribly i held on to that so tight and i feel like it taught me so
much about really understanding that it's about two holes coming together and not finding your
other half not finding anything another person that's going to complete you or anything and the
other person that's going to contribute to your self-worth no matter who it is whether it's for

(01:08:14):
good or bad you know people really um get i think there's a lot to learn about relationships and
i think i learned the hard way through many different relationships but it's just i think
relationships teach us so much like so even the bad breakups taught me so so so so much in life
which led to also wanting to have a peaceful breakup after that i was like let's do this the

(01:08:35):
right way let's do this the conscious way please my husband and i also did what ray did is we moved
off the grid we built a cabin from the ground up learned to milk goats and make cheese and
compost our toilets and everything and we ended up we were drinking on a regular basis at that
point and we ended up having i ended up having an affair like we thought of love i had an incredibly

(01:08:58):
intense affair and it destroyed us to like it so we broke up and so we were separated for two years
and it was like the most valuable experience of our lives because we basically couldn't survive
without each other we were in such a the most dark place that we'd ever been in our lives without

(01:09:18):
each other and so we were able to from this place of complete beyond dumpster fire build a bridge
of survival so sometimes like sometimes i just want to bring voice to the fact that
it's okay to be so um broken and such a dumpster fire and so destroyed that you reach for that
goddamn life-saving hand and our because of that bridge that we built in the darkest of nights

(01:09:44):
of our relationship we now i mean it's just it's incredible i'm starting to you know understand um
just this deep deeper sense of love that i had no idea that i would ever comprehend i mean that's
amazing so it's like that bridge in the darkness was worth everything and it was it was dark you

(01:10:05):
know yeah it's uh it's so important to go through those moments of discomfort where everything that
you've relied on for that just that sense of stability and familiarity kind of gets ripped
out from under you and i said before when i was younger that you know if i'm not terrified i'm
not learning and that's very much the case is that it's when everything's being stripped away

(01:10:27):
everything i relied on for false certainty and control that all of a sudden i recognize what's
real what's there and i can run from that i can resist it i can try and cover it up with all
kinds of ideas and assumptions to give myself that false certainty again but as soon as i do i end up
back in conflict i end up back in a relationship with my images rather than with my reality and

(01:10:47):
so it's so important to occasionally just torch the entire structure of who you think you are
bring it right down to ash and then rebuild and rebuild from there so funny because the house
that cabin that we built with the living roof like off the grid on my family's land it did burn down
um a year after um you know we we ended up getting back together of course but um losing

(01:11:11):
it was so beautiful and i have a friend of mine who's doing all sorts of self-work
and one of the comments that someone said to her that has stuck with her forever is you've got to
burn your own house down and to her it means her ego and to me i look back at that experience of
the way i lived before with my husband you know um i even wrote on the walls of that

(01:11:33):
cabin that built you know i really was just we were just so naive in our own lost world but
if we hadn't gone through that and if we hadn't lost the house and then together we quit drinking
that was a huge part of it um it's just a whole different life so burn that house down you know
yeah that's an awesome analogy i think for a lot of people it just comes back to their idea of

(01:11:54):
themselves and their identity and something kind of profound thing that i've i think i mentioned on
the podcast one or two episodes ago but it was the moment that kind of triggered me to start posting
content finally it was after knowing that i wanted to for a long time and i kind of went through this
morning routine where i imagined being old and thinking back on my life and what i regretted

(01:12:19):
and every single morning for like a year and a half it was not creating content and
none of that time i was creating content i just knew that i would regret it at some point
but there were still some sort of limiting beliefs about myself i didn't think that i was a good
speaker i didn't think that i was confident i didn't think that i could articulate things
very well i didn't like my voice all of these things were constantly running through my head

(01:12:40):
and so at work one day my boss had us record a client call and make us listen back to it
and just like critique ourselves so i recorded it it was like a weekly call that i would run
and afterwards i was like oh that was like normal call whatever and there were points
where i was like oh that question took me a while to answer didn't articulate it very well

(01:13:04):
and i listened back to the recording and it went like way better than i thought and all those times
that i thought that i was like taking a while to answer it was like a split second so that made me
realize that this idea of myself that i built up for the past close to probably 10 years in my head
wasn't true and as soon as i listened back to that got done i was like my voice doesn't sound

(01:13:29):
as weird as i thought i was able to articulate all those things pretty well i was able to speak
pretty fluidly throughout the entire call maybe this idea of myself that i've had this entire
time wasn't true so for me that was like burning down my house this idea of myself that i had had
for so long i was like all right here we go and like the next week i made a youtube vlog and then

(01:13:51):
posted some of it on tik tok and it went viral and then the rest was sort of history and here we are
yeah and are the ashes still there yeah they're still there is there still sometimes something
yeah sure there is but it's okay you know that's a newfound freedom yeah i think that for me um
you know i think because i was so so bullied and subjected to so much judgment for physical

(01:14:13):
appearance and things like that as a kid that it didn't matter ever what i actually looked like i
always just felt so not good enough not pretty enough not this enough not skinny
enough all of that which i and i speak about this openly because it comes and
it comes in the form of something superficial but so many people struggle with this especially girls
and if there's one thing that mushrooms did for me is make me feel beautiful genuinely like i

(01:14:37):
don't think i feel prettier than i do when i take questions because there's something to be said
about that because it is a real thing i know so unbelievable like i walk around like i'm the most
beautiful thing and i think the biggest aha moment that i had that i think from this moment from that
moment on i never could look at myself and say something mean or negative about my face or what

(01:14:57):
i look like no matter what it is even if i look good bad doesn't matter is that i had this moment
where i was on trims i was feeling really bad about myself i was in hawaii i was by myself i
was like okay i'm just gonna go to my little plant friends and have them help me out here
because i know they do that it's supposed to help me and i remember looking at the trees and saying
holy [ __ ] we're all like trees like i would never go outside and be like that tree's too big

(01:15:23):
and that tree's too small and that tree's lacking some leaves and that tree is a little bit tilted
to the left right i was like holy [ __ ] we're all trees and all these trees are beautiful and
there isn't one tree okay maybe there's some trees that are you're like wow that's a [ __ ] pretty
ass treat but there's trees that have a function that is more impressive than the way it looks and
from that moment on i was like oh my god we're all just trees

(01:15:47):
i share this with so many people because it was such a deeply profound moment to just accept that
we are all all beautiful genuinely and tapping into that feeling even for that those few hours
has stayed with me since it doesn't go away it's like even when i try to be mean to myself i'm like
i can't like that stayed with me for so long so i really do just i'm so grateful that i that i got

(01:16:09):
to even to a point where i was open to trying things like that because i've always been very
skeptical and scared of those things because of my past and my community and the culture that i
come from and i'm so grateful for that that's so interesting that's a great insight i had the same
kind of insight in the rainforest except that of course it's the rain forest and so not only
are you seeing trees but half of those trees are growing out of the remains of old trees

(01:16:31):
right like they're literally growing out of of the the former experiences of life and so it really
dawned on me that that's exactly what we're doing and this kind of leads back to what you
were saying earlier about looking at the world being patient for the last 20 years it's just
when you see change is constant and that it's it doesn't need to be hurried because change that's
hurried doesn't tend to last right and then you start to realize that we are all trees like you

(01:16:56):
said and as we grow we make room for other trees to grow and then when we are no longer here
the other trees that are still us grow out of us right and so we're all just one mind we're
in we're all different thoughts of interacting with one another to create new thoughts and new
insights in in one giant collective evolution it's it's it's inspiring when you look at it but it's

(01:17:17):
easy to lose track of of how much it's happening when you fall into your idea of the world
and we have to bring the conversation back to the default mode network there's this doctor who's a
leader in psychedelics right now um dr r coleman and he says that you know mdma is a heart opener
lsd is a denial buster but psilocybin heals trauma and so when we are because this is a physical real

(01:17:41):
thing when you um i've been you know teaching microdosing classes and just doing all this work
um people do feel more more beautiful why because we release that default mode network we have
a serotonergic effect and we heal our trauma we are when we're doing that work we are essentially
so authentically beautiful amen and i think that this also ties back to that idea of like

(01:18:05):
i think seeing yourself as separate or seeing yourself as one with everything like how could you
call yourself ugly if you're one with everything like you look at when i look at the sunset when i
look at the sky when i look at the most beautiful flower i'm like if i acknowledge that what's true
in one atom is true for this whole universe and which and i'm made up of all of it then how dare i
even call myself ugly when i can look at a sunset and call it beautiful because we're we are one

(01:18:30):
with everything around us and it's actually like you said when i disconnect from that feeling of
you know there's taylor and then there's the world then yeah there's a lot to say about taylor
but when i see myself as the world and it's pretty hard to look at this world and call it
ugly because it's a pretty pretty beautiful world out there honestly like i'm taken aback and mind
blown by the simplest smallest things every single day absolutely it also makes jealousy

(01:18:53):
and envy nonsensical i mean i've had people come up to me and they'll say like oh i just bought
this brand new boat for half a million dollars and i'm stoked for them i'm like yeah that's awesome
and they get really confused they're like why don't you feel like less of a person
why would i like i'm just happy for you because you're me and i just got a sweet boat through
you and that's very much how i look at it and so it it changes the conversation you don't

(01:19:18):
even have to change it's kind of like what you were saying earlier it's like i don't i don't go
out to preach this i just embody whatever it is i've witnessed and experienced and to the point
where somebody said it to me once where they're like you've gone so far the other direction you
don't even recognize it right yeah that's pretty much it very happy for you very happy for you and
i think that yesterday i was with a friend who was like she was talking about comparing herself

(01:19:40):
to this other girl and they come from a similar background and they're both singers and they kind
of look alike and they kind of have the same style and i said you are only comparing yourself to her
because you you you still haven't recognized that as much as we are one there is a part of you that
nothing in this world could ever resemble because yes we are one with everything but we all have our
own unique light that we share like there is no there are no two trees that are actually the same

(01:20:02):
that's what makes all the trees beautiful because you cannot find two of the same tree right and
that's something that i'm also starting to understand that there is only one of me there
will never be another me and there never has been another me and that in and of itself makes
me so limited edition and it doesn't make sense to compare right like a mango tree makes mangoes and
it's not trying to make coconuts like it can't make coconuts it's not supposed to because they

(01:20:25):
would make really really shitty mangoes if it was trying so like we really have to at the same time
seeing ourselves as everything also tap into that part of us that makes us uniquely ourselves which
is also so so beautiful and so unique and one of one cannot be compared to anything sure that
also brings to the conversation of everyone who came before to bring you to who you are today

(01:20:47):
in our dna of the millions of of um our ancestors and it's a it's a real interesting
conversation it's really hard to conceptualize but it's like one of my favorite things i mean
every single relationship of love and trying to survive on this planet brought you so full
of your own dna and there was that recent study with mice uh andrew i'm sure you saw this where um

(01:21:11):
if you a mice was electrocuted each time it smelled a cherry blossom
and so for 20 generations these mice would not smell a cherry blossom so not only in our own
authentic beauty are we who we were before us but we are also in the way we respond to
the world so it's like it it with the word native american tamia because i see that same yeah yeah

(01:21:34):
yeah that's that's awesome too and understanding like how unique you are but also realizing that
when it comes to judgment and like worrying about what other people think of you
like logically it doesn't make any sense and the way i try to describe it is realizing that
there's a different version of you inside of everyone's mind like everyone has their own your

(01:21:56):
unique judgment and perception of who you are as a person your idea of you but there's only
one you and yet especially for us who you know post content publicly and whatnot there's like
tens of thousands of versions of us existing in the world so to try and live your life based on
other people's perceptions and opinions of you is completely futile because it's completely

(01:22:20):
impossible you can't be tens of thousands or millions of versions of you there's only one you
so logically basing your worth and how things are and who you are off of how everyone else thinks of
you doesn't make sense because you can't be all of those versions of you you're only one so you might
as well prioritize the perception the judgment that matters and makes you happy and do what you

(01:22:45):
want with this life because that's the only one that matters to you and that's the only one that
could ever matter yeah taking responsibility for our own perception is just huge yes
and also just being okay to let go of the things that are like the ones that don't match right
like i think we hold on to i had this whole other experience with like followers and my relationship

(01:23:08):
to followers like if i start showing these parts of me i'm gonna lose these people and it's like
but actually for every person i lost i gained another five people that are like i also like
kanye west i'm like cool i love that great let's bond right so it's like there were so many parts
of me i was afraid of showing because you know i didn't want to lose people but they're they're
not my people and that's okay like i love the quote i don't remember where i heard it just like

(01:23:31):
to burn every bridge that isn't love or truth and i really try to live my life that way if
it's stemmed in fear if it's stemmed in something that's not love or truth then then i burn that
bridge and i'm okay with that like i want to walk on on that path you know so it's it takes
courage though i think all these things take so much courage and that's a word that people don't
use enough like we say you could do this and that and it's all sound so simple but really

(01:23:55):
i think that's the word that goes behind all of it like you need to be brave enough to seek truth
no matter where it's going to lead you no matter what you're going to find out it's almost like
seeking truth knowing you don't know what it's going to bring up bring you you know what it's
where it's going to take you is the scariest thing but sometimes people know where it's going to take
them and they're afraid of doing that right so i just i just tell people have the courage to seek

(01:24:16):
truth like it'll always bring you to a better place no matter what it forces you to do first
to get to the unknown we have to let go of the known that that's it there's no way to get to
something that we've never experienced by holding on to what we've experienced it just doesn't work
and so it's the same with me i talk to people and i'm just like you know just allow yourself

(01:24:37):
to recognize that you're never your idea of yourself it doesn't matter if it's positive or
negative doesn't matter what concept it might be you're not a concept you can't be a concept you're
not some superficial idea you can change and do change constantly allow yourself to be that allow
yourself to change and then you will just unfold in the world around you and we'll all witness

(01:25:00):
that happening but if you get in the way all of a sudden it's like you're adding static to the
signal like it's just not coming through as clear and so we all all suffer because of your suffering
right and so this is where you really start coming to the idea that we are all in this together
that through ending my suffering and making it easier for other people to end their suffering
it's not that i can end it for them it's that i can show them that it's possible i can even just

(01:25:23):
talk about the fact that it's possible and not everybody's going to follow that not everybody's
going to want that because again the devil we know seems very enticing right but as soon as they've
realized that the devil they know is a devil then they will have the priority themselves to let go
of what they think they've wanted their entire life and they'll experience what they've been

(01:25:45):
yeah i see my family um people who i thought would never seek this truth or ever go through
any type of transformation that at least they're not doing it knowingly and definitely unaware
of it as it's happening but i see them becoming more conscious more open to talking about things
vulnerably just because of the transformation i'm going through and the energy i carry and
the where i meet them in conversation right even when i'm trying to like not poke at them it's just

(01:26:10):
it is contagious i see it in my friends my friends who gave up on pursuing their life as singers when
they see me post content they're like oh maybe i could also show up online and sing online because
taylor's doing it so i feel like we we sometimes forget that this journey we're going on isn't
just for us like i think it actually helps me to remember that i'm like you know what i'm doing
this for my brother too i'm doing this for my parents i'm doing this for all my friends like

(01:26:31):
it's the highest way to serve other people is to actually serve yourself and to put yourself first
and go through these things it's not selfish it's not egotistical it's actually the opposite it's
you are actually going to carry a light that is going to spread further than you could probably
see even in the smallest interactions where you speak to someone when you go buy coffee i see that
just giving eye contact and smiling and sharing this like moment of presence and connection

(01:26:55):
is so powerful and yeah it's just sometimes it feels like i'm who am i to go through
this journey now by myself and leave everyone behind but i say walk through the door then you
can bring other people with you sometimes there's no room for them when you're walking through the
door in the beginning so trust that you're going through the door to awaken for everyone you love
and everyone in your life will feel the effects of that it's not just for you yeah absolutely i love

(01:27:20):
that and and it comes back to just understanding that all you have to do is be the change that
you want to see you don't have to go outside of yourself and force other people to change because
as taylor you mentioned earlier like i've been in the same boat like trying to usher people and be
like no you don't have to live like this like like observe those thoughts that you're having they're
not the truth you are not who you think you are and and all these you know belief systems you

(01:27:44):
don't have to believe in things necessarily and what i've come out of it is that you're not going
to force people to do things you can show them all the things in the world and and get them you know
99 of the way with your information but it always comes from within so relaxing into that sort of
understanding that you don't have to go out and change everyone else all you have to do is change

(01:28:08):
yourself and express that fully and inevitably things will change because we are the world we are
it like we are the universe embodied so as we change so does the world as above so below so
that's all you have to do because if you try and go beyond that it's it's like becomes this sort
of egotistical sort of desire and yeah you're no longer seeing yourself in everyone else you're

(01:28:33):
seeing yourself as separate trying to help people outside of yourself and i feel like we see that
quite a bit in the spiritual in the spiritual community it's like trying to help other people
because you yourself feel bad so in reality are you trying to help other people or are you trying
to help yourself feel better because you feel bad about how things are right i also think that the
reason it doesn't work and it actually does cause harm is that because even if you don't

(01:28:56):
intend to judge people people don't change when they feel like they're being judged and in order
for people to change they need to feel very safe and accepted and and really to climb out of that
hole you really have to feel like you're not being judged in any way and when someone's coming and
i always give this example and it always hits for people so i'm going to share it here that you know
when you have someone who like starts to work out and eat healthy and like he's like in his groove

(01:29:18):
and you go to dinner with them and they start commenting on oh did you know that like olive oil
has like this many calories or like starts telling you like start commenting on what you're eating
you're like bro shut the [ __ ] up i'm not trying to lose weight like you do you all do me and you
actually end up feeling like i don't i don't want to do this even more now because like you kind
of you feel judgment you feel like there's some underlyings like he's talking to you from above
right but when you have a friend who starts to get really fit and eats really healthy and

(01:29:42):
starts looking amazing but doesn't say anything to you just shows up looking like that you're like
so what are the what are the tips like where how'd you get there you know i mean like
please like fill me in on this and i always tell people when you just embody it
people who need it will come to you i can't even tell you how many people are like listen taylor
you're like drinking some secret sauce what's the secret sauce i need to know what it is right so

(01:30:04):
people will ask for help and that's a completely different thing and it's nice to be of service
to those people but don't give unsolicited advice like don't go trying to save people
that aren't looking to be saved again i think it just causes more harm and it actually pulls people
in the opposite direction they're like oh the spirituality thing's not for me you're crazy like
they start to feel like they have to throw the judgment back at you so

(01:30:25):
that was excellently said that's true i mean that's have you ever read power versus force
i don't know if either of you are familiar with the book by uh i haven't david hawkins
it's interesting in that basically over a decade or more of doing uh muscle testing on people
asking the body not the mind yes or no questions in regards to the scale of consciousness you know
if consciousness levels of consciousness were on a scale of zero to a thousand

(01:30:49):
anger would be higher than 150 for example and so the body would say yes or no based on whether or
not it went weak or strong and he repeated this step this test over tens of thousands of people
for decades and he created a uniform scale of consciousness based on the answers that were
provided by the muscles of the body that were being tested not the minds so an example that

(01:31:12):
he used for example was you have a picture of adolf hitler inside a manila a manila envelope
and he would ask the person holding the envelope the character the person inside or the person on
the picture in this envelope is destructive yes or no and the answer would be the same
for a neo-nazi or not the body would know whether it was destructive or or creative and so he

(01:31:34):
created this scale of consciousness as a result asking like where's where's desire where's anger
where's all of this and courage was one of the pivotal points where we switch over into a new
mentality because now we're no longer chasing the carrot we're not running from the stick it's not
an egotistical thing we're not you know running from consequence or chasing a reward it's just
moving forward because that's what life is and so hawkins was very much talking about how beneath

(01:31:59):
our egotistical mind beneath what we want to think we are actually feeling what is we are actually an
extension of this of the singular awareness that is totally aware of what's destructive and what's
constructive and otherwise in in the world of duality if we just allow ourselves to feel it
if we just allow ourselves to to embody it and so what's interesting to me is that as soon as

(01:32:20):
we get out of our own way as soon as we start to feel free in ourselves it's like you were saying
people start to find you and it's not that they start to find you it's just all of a sudden you're
open to them being able to access you you're playing a part where you can fit into their story
and so there was never any division to begin with it's that we divided ourselves it's like no i'm

(01:32:40):
not willing to play them my part in this machine right because i'm too busy thinking about what my
part should be or fearing what my part might be as soon as we get out of the way seamless integration
as always it's like we just fall into line with everybody else's dream because it's all one
consciousness it's just amazing to me that even in martial arts the same thing is true the less you
think about yourself the faster you are the more you float the more you can experience fluidity

(01:33:05):
it's just practicing that but to practice that we have to continuously come back to this insight
right i'm locking myself up by thinking about this too much
i have a question for ray i just i just wanted to ask um sometimes it's like i i feel like i lead
from a place that's really deeply conscious um and tell myself you know like i really try to go

(01:33:29):
about even when i do set goals for myself right there is structure for me i do have goals and
i really try to go about achieving them in a way that's not based in ego but it sometimes
it feels like well this system is based on rewarding you know it's really based on ego right
it really is based on look at me and i you know i wanna that's how you attract people to attract

(01:33:50):
make get power influence et cetera and although i want to use that power for good although i want to
build that audience for a good reason sometimes it feels like i have to play the game to win
to get to that place right and it's always like going back and forth especially being conscious as
your content creator it's a really weird place to be because you feel like you're playing into this

(01:34:11):
system that you don't really want to play into but at the same time you're doing it to spread
good in the world but at the same time you kind of have to follow these rules to succeed at it
and i just would love to hear what you what you think about this because it's like sometimes i
feel like well my most conscious self doesn't even want to be on tick-tock at all honestly
i don't even want to have a phone to be honest but there al is a part of me that feels like okay well

(01:34:36):
as long as this exists there needs to be people that are using it for good and blah blah but
to succeed at it to really reach the most around people sometimes it feels like you reach a certain
point where it's like i kind of have to give in to the way the system goes to reach more people
to some degree i mean i faced the same thing when i was life coaching because immediately
when i started my business i'm like i don't want to call myself a life coach i don't want to call

(01:34:59):
myself anything but same guy who knows stuff doesn't go very well on a business card right
so nobody wants to come you know look up in the phone book guy who knows stuff now just aged my
dated myself there by mentioning a phone book but um the fact is is that you have to kind of work
within the environment that you're a part of and at the moment we're in an illusionary environment
and so you have to play the part that it expects you to play to some degree and it's kind of like

(01:35:24):
going undercover you know i was saying this to andrew it's like we're all in an insane asylum
and every once in a while you'll catch somebody with that glimmer in their eye you're like ah
you see shh we'll talk later you know and that's very much kind of what's going on and so you
can't come into the world all like i am divinely inspired look at me because immediately people get
all kinds of assumptions about you and they won't listen to you as you've noticed even just talking

(01:35:47):
about you know vaguely spiritual concepts like i have an idea of that and they go and they go
running so you become this adapt this adaptation machine you become a chameleon as it were and you
have to be in order for them to be able to look at you in a way that's comfortable enough for them
to let their walls down right and and so yeah play the game to some degree as long as you recognize

(01:36:10):
it's a game as long as you recognize that your value does not raise or lower according to how
many right people are right right which is so hard it's so hard even with that that awareness
like i say negative comments don't get to me because positive comments are not what i what
i base my confidence on so like you can't really take away like it's a i don't put my worth and my
value in there but it is hard man like even with the awareness like the more people that are just

(01:36:34):
showing you love and following you you're like how do i create enough space between me and me
online so that i don't let this get to me because sometimes it feels like even with that awareness
it's hard to to manage and control on andrew i'd love to hear how you manage it because you have
more followers than i do so yeah i i just want to just talk a little bit about allowing ourselves

(01:36:57):
to ebb and flow and when you feel like that incredible inspiration of creativity like use
it for every single morsel that you have and when you feel like going inward it is just like you
know the process of the moon like go without flow and the more you honor that flow that ebb and flow
before you really honor your higher self girl last week i was making six tick tocks a day this week i

(01:37:19):
can't think of an idea for one tick tock so like i'm definitely just like i don't give a [ __ ]
about the rules i don't know what i was supposed to do i don't know the ones who the real ones are
going to be here next week i i cannot force myself to do what is just not flowing from you naturally
but i'm like i probably should have kept some of those in the drafts for this week but whatever
thousand followers so not that much really um however i did just put my account to private

(01:37:43):
because i'm just trying to see if this amazing job opportunity and i just didn't want to be
seen talking about lsd as much as i did you know and i'm okay with it i'm like there's going to be
a time that it goes public and i'm just go go fire but right now totally don't care just closing down
for just a moment and andrew i want to just hear what you have to say about this because

(01:38:04):
you're kind of you're kind of a big deal i'm so excited i'm good
oh man um yeah as ray knows because we have lots of discussions about this it's it's a
turbulent thing for me for sure that's like the best word i've used been able to find
and describe it and i think it's just because because for me it's a lot of self-judgment that

(01:38:26):
like i should be doing something i shouldn't be doing something else and a lot of times
you know even having a typical nine-to-five job in digital advertising like when i'm doing
that work i feel like i should be doing content when i'm doing content i feel like i should be
doing that work and it's always this pull back and forth and just allowing myself
the grace to understand that it's okay no matter what i'm doing and understanding that like it's

(01:38:50):
okay to not post videos for a week like it will be okay if you're not feeling it in that moment but
i think for me just through all of this and especially since july when i sort of you know
woke up in a way like a more profound way than i had before and kind of understood that i am this
awareness of here and now that is universal and i am sort of everyone in that way uh just keeping

(01:39:15):
that in mind that andrew is an idea andrew is a fiction like i don't the less i identify
with him the less there is for me to grab on to egotistically to bring myself up but there's also
so much less to fear and worry about because there is nothing to lose but at the same time there's
nothing to gain so something kind of along these lines that came up today was was actually i was

(01:39:37):
on a podcast it was shaun t's podcast he's like a fitness influencer and he has been following me
for a while and asked it's like andrew this has been an awesome conversation like when
did you realize that you were different and i was like oh i don't really like that question because

(01:39:58):
i don't feel like i'm different and i had already kind of expressed the the story of
me like kind of waking up and now i don't feel like necessarily identify with andrew and so i
kind of went back to that i'm like well the less me that there is involved less there is to feel
different so while i will understand that people will see me in a certain way in a certain light i

(01:40:19):
also understand that everyone has a different idea of me so i don't allow any of them to be
the truth and even my own perception of myself i don't deem to be the truth in that way so just
keeping that in mind that i'm not who i think i am i'm not who other people think i am i'm not
who other people think i think i am just that identity aspect of it has helped along the way

(01:40:43):
but it is just giving yourself grace through it all and and when you get judgmental of yourself
not judging your judgments is a big thing that's that's been the case for me and just understanding
that it is a progressive journey and it does ebb and flow every step of the way sometimes
the ebbs are lower than the flows at times or more frequent than the flows but it's it's just about

(01:41:07):
typically getting myself out of the way and understanding that myself is the root of any
suffering or feelings of worry or lack or or anything that i feel nicely said nicely and
it is it's funny how the ebbs and flows i always noticed as as you take yourself less seriously at
first you're still going through the ups and downs and they're pretty extreme in general and then the

(01:41:30):
ups and downs start to happen a little bit more time apart like there's a bigger duration between
them and then the ups and downs aren't quite as high and low anymore and so you almost naturally
start finding your equilibrium it's not that you don't go up and down anymore it's just that you
don't necessarily feel like you're unbalanced when you do so it's like you start to get used to the
idea that your vastness unfolding is just what is you don't have to have an idea necessarily of what

(01:41:52):
that is as it's happening just allow yourself to go through it and we were talking a bit about um
epi phenomenalism in a previous episode about how our thoughts actually come after the intention to
do something right so we're already doing something and then we translate it through
thought and and then we convince ourselves that the thought is what's making it happen but it

(01:42:13):
was already happening we're just experiencing it happening through thought so it's very much
in the same vein um this has been a great conversation i just i know we have to wrap
this up because andrew has a hard stop in about 15 minutes i've really enjoyed this i'm so glad that
you were both able to join us um we're just going to wrap up here but i do want to mention that
we have a growing discord server for our audience on dualistic unity at the moment i think we're

(01:42:36):
almost 120 members and it's all people talking about this very conversation it's all very much
in the same vein so if you would like to join us on that discord server i know that
the audience and the members there would love to have access to your insights and your experiences
likewise we do roundtables fairly frequently we do group chats things like that and i'm always up for

(01:42:56):
a good conversation so if either of you ever want to do this again reach out to us and we would be
more than happy to have you on or even just in a one-on-one situation on maybe tick tock
live or instagram or something like that we can just shoot the breeze um before we wrap up here
i just wanted to give you both an opportunity to let everybody know where they can find you
um and of course what you're up to and if they have any questions how best to contact you so uh

(01:43:21):
tanya we'll start with you thank you um this has been amazing i'm so grateful for this opportunity
my website is tanyagilbert.com it's t-a-w-n-a so a little bit funny i'm really interested in
gathering nurses and empowering them right now so if you're a nurse out there who's wondering where
are the other psychedelic nurses um i'm really leaning into creating more retreats for nurses

(01:43:49):
so that's what i'm up to i'm kind of pausing some other stuff that i was doing previously
my tick tock is nurse brave to the bone you can follow me there
and oh no no that's my instagram um sorry about that my tic toc is bones of a nurse
excellent of course we'll include the information in the description underneath this youtube video
and if anybody is listening to the podcast and the information's not there you can just reach out to

(01:44:12):
us at dualisticunity.com and all the information will be there as well and of course taylor
i want to say before i even talk about where you could find me that it is insane to me that
i came across andrew's content actually some of race content living a completely different life
actually not even too long ago i was living in a different country with a boyfriend with
living in a different house and if someone would have told me then that i was going to

(01:44:35):
end up here talking to you guys then i would probably be like you're insane and it just
got this conversation just reminded me how on how much mystery there is in the future and how
you know exciting life can be you know there's beyond what i can even imagine is possible in the
present which which has been so fun this entire conversation i'm like wow who would have thought
you know like this is pretty cool so thank you for your time and also thank you for reaching out to

(01:44:59):
me you can find me on instagram and tik talk at life by taylor and honestly if you connected in
any way to anything i said then there's so much more to hear and to connect on and to speak about
i love talking to people i love connecting with people i have a weekly call with some random guy
in spain that's irish that i met through tick tock and i talked to a bunch of people who are
just willing to connect and listen so just reach out if you're looking to connect with a fellow

(01:45:22):
human and if we vibe because that's what matters and i love it so that's where you can find me
awesome yeah thank you so much both of you for joining us this is an awesome experience
this is definitely a part a big part of what we want to do with our season two as the new year
turned over was have more group conversations about these things and they've both gone this

(01:45:43):
is our second one we've had so far and they've gone incredibly well and it's just fun to have
more perspectives involved in this conversation and it's clear to see that things are things are
changing slowly but surely but it's happening and it's fun to be a part of absolutely no i'm
i'm always inspired and i know from talking to people frequently on discord and otherwise i get

(01:46:06):
messages from people just saying this conversation doesn't exist anywhere i can't find anybody to
talk to about this stuff there's nobody in my life who wants to have this discussion or at least to
the depth that we tend to go and while right now that's that's happening online in terms of
content creators and whatnot as more people start to realize that this conversation is happening
that it does exist it's not just you going through it they will start to perpetuate in their own life

(01:46:31):
and slowly will fill in the cracks until this conversation becomes the dominant mentality in
the same way that the ego currently is so there's some change happening and it's beautiful to watch
it happening through each person individually and making it collective and we're and we're all so
different right like that's the beauty of it you there isn't a type of person that's spiritual or
conscious or seeks awareness like it's everyone and like i just looking at this screen i'm like

(01:46:55):
wow like four very different people from such different parts of life in the world it's just
having a conversation that feels so natural and we connect on so easily so please god more people
will just see it and join us and it'll all go good i'll be good i love it thank you everyone tanya
taylor thank you for joining us next round table is coming up next month so we'll let everybody

(01:47:19):
know what's happening there i think it's going to be art and expression but we're not entirely sure
have yourself an excellent week and we will see you on next episode bye everyone

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