S.1 Ep.14: A Renaissance of Ambiguity

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode 14 of dualistic unity i am andrew i'm
still not convinced that i'm rey but after season one i don't think it matters anymore
certainly yeah we were just discussing the idea of
basically reality and and whether or not you know we can even be convinced that this isn't a dream

(00:20):
or not in the uh capabilities of our awareness when we get ourselves out of the way so i'm
happy to continue that discussion i think that's a great way to kick things off and and we're talking
specifically about some of the examples of uh jesus's miracles with you know turning water into
wine or walking on water and just the id the whole concept of of but being able to accomplish those

(00:47):
things or do those things when you're able to get your perceptions and ideas about what's possible
or impossible out of the way and even your idea of yourself and and yeah i think it's it's pretty
insane because i've never really i've always kind of written those off as just like you know
part of the fairy tale but yeah i feel like i've sort of come full circle to being able to see it

(01:10):
in a diff completely different lens that it's not just like a magic trick that you know god
pulled off because he's the son of god but that we can actually get to as me or as anyone you know
welcome to the insane part of the party this is where it gets fun right because

(01:30):
we know that everything is as we said energetic quantum soup we know that our awareness
is part of that we don't know to what degree but we know that without awareness
there is no experience of the quantum soup so there is no time and space without awareness
and the quantum soup is time and space embodied
so without awareness there's there's nothing so we're basically in the equivalent of a dream of

(01:53):
a limitless consciousness and that's what reality is right but if that's the case then that really
makes us question what is possible which makes us question the whole jesus story because what
if you could surrender your idea of yourself the physicality the idea that the the character that

(02:13):
you've created all of your limitations all of that you could just be in a state of being which isn't
walking around going i'm godly look at me right but it's a complete lack of you
for the most part you would actually be representative or or embodying the voice
of the whole which i think is what jesus was trying to do when he was saying i am the way
the truth and the life he was trying to speak as the whole which i i find just fascinating right

(02:38):
well if you did manage to get rid of that that disconnect that perception of disconnect if
you aligned to the point where it's the same as living in a lucid dream that you are the
awareness of reality and this is your creation what is possible you know even if you look at
the slightly lesser miracles and i say lesser with kind of a tongue-in-cheek here but where

(03:00):
he was healing people jesus always asked people before he healed them he asked them a question
do you believe you can be healed and then he said by your faith you are healed he didn't say
i healed you see he didn't say i did that he said you did that i just gave you the opportunity

(03:22):
by being here with no distortion come with me my yoke is light i'm not carrying that weight
of myself right and so if that's possible just by getting the mind out of the way of that person
what was jesus capable of doing if he could get his own mind out of the way which is why again the
walking on water thing always kind of amazed me my grandfather used to always joke well he just knew

(03:43):
where the stones were but when when he was on the water he had no doubt that he'd be able to walk
and when the apostles went to join him and they fell through he went what little faith you have
so all he was saying there is just don't doubt it don't don't doubt that this is anything except
god or the kingdom of heaven as it were and so he was really trying to communicate

(04:07):
a state of being i think where our limitations literally do disappear now whether all of that
happened or not the stories are very cool when you look at it from that perspective you know
like the water to wine thing just accepting that you are all of the awarenesses in that wedding
and changing your mind collectively so that way what oh no it's it's always been why why because

(04:30):
i've decided it has been and then the entire wedding experiences it that way because they're
all you that's some pretty crazy stuff like that's an interesting conversation and and as i said with
the uh the loaves and the fishes where he just kept feeding the masses and he just didn't look
inside the basket to verify conceptually how much food he had and so it just kept creating more food

(04:50):
well that was done uh by a buddhist monk in another legend as well with a with a
bowl of rice or with a barrel of rice he just kept feeding the village and just just kept
the barrel covered so nobody could see how much was in it and limit the possibilities right so
it's again it's it's schrodinger's cat right until i look in the box i don't know the cat's alive

(05:12):
or dead well until i i verify that reality it's potentially any reality i find that fascinating
yeah it's like the infinite potentiality here and now we're talking a lot about in the manifestation
workshop but yeah it's uh i'm curious like how do you think that no one got that sort of idea

(05:34):
from jesus that he was just getting himself out of the way the whole time like he was just there
you know things like come with me my yoke is light like that he just didn't have that
distortion of identity of thinking that he is this ego character and only this ego character like i
feel like that was completely missed by the church was it just because it's all been read about and

(05:59):
written about through egotistical people that's a really good question well it's interesting because
so in the story um thomas was one of jesus's best students doubting thomas right he was the one who
didn't believe everything on face value right and judas judas iscariot was jesus's most gifted

(06:22):
student you know judas the one who who betrayed jesus at the end well in the gnostic gospels
there's a gospel of judas there's there's a story by judas of what happened and why he betrayed
jesus of course the church doesn't talk about that gospel they disregard that gospel in the same way
they disregard disregarded the gospel of thomas or the gospel of mary magdalene all of which tell a

(06:46):
very different story of what jesus was all about and never made it to the new testament right well
in the gospel of judas istariot jesus asked him to turn him over to to the romans jesus asked judas
to turn him over saying that you're the only one who will understand why and then when judas

(07:07):
went back to the other apostles and they said well what did he tell you he's like if i told
you you'd hate me so it makes you question the entire story right then and there right
same with um in the gospel of mary magdalene the original pope the original person who was supposed
to lead jesus's congregation as it were was mary because her she holds god closest to her heart

(07:30):
and instead it ended up becoming peter right the guy who turned his back on jesus um right so
if you look at why the story was never told this way it's because there's no power that you can
derive from it one that that's the biggest thing if you're telling people that they they are god
what do they need to go to church for you know if you're telling people that their awareness is the

(07:51):
awareness of the universe that it's limitless in its potential in its scope of intelligence
why would they have to go to a priest and ask for their forgiveness it wouldn't and so to
have this conversation about the christian story would completely tear apart the church
you actually have to disregard all of this stuff to have a christian church right because

(08:13):
it doesn't it doesn't come together otherwise i was talking to what was he talking to i was
responding to a christian's comments um yesterday about this and her accusation was that oh well
you're just cherry-picking things that jesus said and then interpreting it as you'd like and i went
well okay but i'm actually quoting what jesus said if there was a jesus we're looking at what he said

(08:38):
and interpreting his words you're just quoting other people's interpretations like you're
quoting matthew mark luke these are other people's interpretations of jesus they're still looking at
the same words i am so what's the difference and without missing a beat oh oh that's good
so you're just gonna disregard an infallible text and make stuff up and my response and i'm still

(09:01):
happy about this one was jesus never said the new testament is infallible who's making stuff up
oh man i love when it gets back to that the infallible text is usually where those
conversations come to a come to a halt when you know the uh the bible proves itself or whatever

(09:22):
the hell that is um with that uh one question i had with the story of judas turning jesus in
do you know or like have you thought about why he wanted to get turned in i've thought about
it because what if it what if the whole point was to make the ripple to leave the story behind what

(09:46):
if he gave that little of a [ __ ] about how he was gonna die that he went this'll make an impact
right like that's that's because if you think about it so in in the new testament the king
james version when jesus is on a cross he says forgive them they know not what they do

(10:07):
okay that was not the original the original line that was a mistranslation what it says
is for this i was spared so he's looking at his whole life as being i was kept alive this long
to reach this moment his perspective was totally different than pitying us it was

(10:31):
so this is what this was supposed to come to it was an acceptance of his church
i find that amazing i i again it's a totally different perspective but
it's so difficult to have this conversation because when we're talking to a christian or a
believer in general there is already a disconnect there's already this need to put somebody up on a

(10:53):
pedestal to follow there's always a need there's this need to idealize them and to separate them
from our very harsh criticism of ourself which is why we have that gap between man and god
right between the center and and perfection and it's all conceptual division but until you
start picking that conceptual division apart you can't look at any story and get anything of value

(11:16):
out of it because all you're doing is looking for more reasons that this person was better than you
yeah yeah i find it just always fascinating how everyone just wants there has to be something
else you know like there has to be something more or something after or you know there has to be

(11:37):
there just has to be and it's like if you actually take a step back and like see things a little bit
clearly for what they are i don't know at the same time of all this like
sometimes i don't know like what if i'm wrong about everything you know like everything i think
like could also be wrong and like i'm very aware of that and i don't you know say it like i know

(12:03):
for a fact anything because i don't i the only thing i know is here and now essentially at the
end of the day and that's why when people ask i get a lot of questions like are you religious or
what you know religious practice are you closest to and i always say you know i'm very much
not religious i you know the only true religion at the end of the day is no religion at all and if i
did have a religion i would say that it's the here and now because that's the only thing i can ever

(12:28):
really know outside of that it's all made up and i find it so interesting just the idea of people
you know anyone who attaches to a belief system is just believing a story that they were told
like they're they don't come to these realizations on their own and that's i guess the difference for
me as i you know and you as well we were brought up with these beliefs like shoved down our throats

(12:53):
basically and we have sort of come to realizations beyond that on our own because there's no other
way to do it because everything you're being told is quite the opposite so i guess in that
sense that's the only you know rebuttal i have to like oh maybe you're wrong too and it's like okay
maybe i'm wrong but at least i got to these things on my own as opposed to being told this story my

(13:18):
entire life and just believing it to be true yeah well what am i wrong about not knowing anything
that's pretty solid like as things go i'm pretty secure on knowing that i don't know anything i'm
good with that right and what's funny is that what we're talking about is accepting that my idea of

(13:41):
myself is not necessarily the truth right and that any idea that in control or any any idea of
um being able to get exactly what i want isn't necessarily the truth all we're saying that's all
we're saying is that anything i think about isn't necessarily the truth which is humility and faith

(14:03):
that's the whole point that's why i find it so funny that christianity just drums on humility
and faith humility and faith all religions do while at the same time telling you to
identify and believe in an idea of god that gives you an anchor so you don't have faith
right how can you have faith if you have faith in an idea because that's not faith

(14:25):
that's control that's the illusion of control right so all we're talking about is taking
the insights that the religion has been trying to point to or or rather has been uh avoiding looking
at but is still in there and taking them to their logical conclusion we're taking them to the point
where it's actually applicable rather than just lip lip service right like we're not just saying

(14:48):
you know treat other people as you would like to be treated which is often you know kind of uh the
misunderstood way misunderstood way of saying love your neighbor as yourself right it's like no treat
them the way you want to be treated it's like that's not quite the same as loving people right
and we're just saying well if you're loving your neighbor as yourself and loving god is like that

(15:10):
then maybe they are the same thing maybe we can just get find a way of getting out of our way
until we actually see everybody as being connected and then live that way and that's not a belief
that's actually application and practice that's actually you know the hark as it were and that's
that's all we're talking about that's it we're just saying you can take that very cute idea and

(15:33):
actually put it into practice and refine a way of living that changes the entire goddamn world
just because you're accepting that you are the world that's all this is and somebody
and people get upset with me constantly and that's fine but but this point is something
that i i will stick to i'll die on this hill believers are lazy that's why they're believers

(15:57):
i i come to that so often especially recently is like because i am just constantly questioning
things especially these days like whenever anything comes up i'm like i question that
[ __ ] till i you know can't question it anymore and usually that takes a really long time but
with the religion stuff like yeah i i see that a lot it's just like you guys just want to stop

(16:23):
there comes a point you know whatever even if you're not religious if you believe in god or if
you're spiritual or if you're super religious like you just don't you know especially if you're like
you know my we have some family friends who are like you know bible hardcore bible believers like
word for word and i'm like oh man but it's like there's a spectrum of questioning and i

(16:45):
think that is like one extreme where it's like no questions whatsoever then there's a point
where i started to get to you know probably five years ago where i just started questioning like
the beliefs that the catholic church has and i'm like that doesn't really check out neither does
that neither does that neither does that so i just like there's a spectrum until you know
a lot of times people will stop at you know a certain point within the religion so they're

(17:09):
still identified as the religion because say they still believe in heaven and hell like they're
afraid of going to hell so they don't want to do that and then like they keep questioning and they
maybe they get beyond that but then they're like oh they're still a god and like they may judge
me so like they don't want to question that and then it's like the point like the final sort of

(17:30):
cascade in that is the questioning of god and the idea of that and i i ask this all the time when
i'm having discussions with religious people it's like you know you believe that god is everything
and everywhere always so that includes us right like we're something here now and it's like
well no like he he's right next to me he's right he's right on my shoulder or like you know he's

(17:54):
got his arm wrapped around me but it's like but you're something within everything you're part of
everything and everywhere like that's everything right so like that is god then you are god like
not quite no they're still like because that makes me a little bit uncomfortable that
i'm god you know guys god is higher god is all-powerful and all-knowing i'm not

(18:16):
all-powerful and all-knowing and it's like well have you ever questioned that maybe you're not
this thing that you know the catholic church has conditioned you into believing that you are and
everyone growing up has conditioned you to believing that you are so when it comes to
yeah questioning like you started this statement out that you know they just
get lazy i think everyone gets to a point where they just get lazy and i think that

(18:38):
is part of what makes this so enjoyable is like we question it to the to the end you know we get
i don't know like it was uncomfortable and yeah very uncomfortable well there's nothing to hold
on to which is the whole point it's not just about i don't know laziness it's also about fear because

(18:59):
if there's no hyper-intelligent super omnipotent all-powerful god there's nobody protecting me
and that is ultimately why i want to believe that there is some super powerful god that
knows everything because then i don't have to worry about the fact that i don't know what's
going to happen next it does right and as long as i'm on its good side

(19:23):
it's going to take care of me and that that's that benefit to holding on to that idea it's
like a parent figure right that's why they always refer to god the father right thank god
daddy's going to protect me daddy's got my back sky daddy right but it's it's understandable
like it's understandable and it's unfortunate to some degree because

(19:45):
typically and as a parent i look at it as as kind of my job to teach my daughter about faith in
herself about you know not holding on to an idea of herself to give herself a false sense of value
and and and compete and compare to everybody else but to have faith in herself and grow as
a person and and get into that whole flow where she's finding her own value through doing things

(20:09):
but a lot of us never got that growing up right a lot of us were never taught self-efficacy
what we were taught was to do what we were told and if we did that well we got a cookie
right and then just to wait for our opportunity to be in charge so other people had to listen to us
right and that was it like we live in a hierarchical model where it's like either you

(20:29):
have to serve happily underneath somebody else or you got to wait your turn to be that somebody else
where people will serve happily under you right and that was the entire thing we were never taught
to stand on our own with reality right which is why i often i often find it interesting that most
monotheistic religions came out of the desert because if you think about the desert experience

(20:51):
of one person standing in the desert in the night sky staring upwards it's a very
isolated experience just man and god right human and god so it makes sense that in that
environment you would start having conversations with the with reality you would start conversing
with your reality and the idea of god would come up right so i always find

(21:11):
that really interesting but it's just the fact that if there's nothing to look to
then this is it this is it and for people who have been mindful about their life people who have
developed self-efficacy people who have developed a state of genuine self-knowledge there's nothing
wrong with that they're like yeah this is it this is great right they look at life kind of

(21:33):
like the knack mcfigal do from terry pratchett's books where it's like you know this is heaven we
were somewhere else we died we came here this is where we get to enjoy ourselves right whereas if
you have been avoidant you're responsible if you were never taught to find your own sense of value
if you were always taught you needed to be higher than other people then all of a sudden the idea

(21:54):
that this is it is terrifying because you've never felt complete you've never felt fulfilled you've
never felt safe you've never felt like you were good enough or that you were able able enough to
to make do and so you don't want the idea that there's no one there protecting you you don't want
to fall back on yourself because you don't see the value in that and that's that's the biggest thing

(22:14):
it's like well if you just let yourself sit in that for a bit just for a little bit you'll find
the value you'll actually experience it but as soon as you run back to god you've given up all
of that that extra progress all of that work right just for the sake of feeling more secure
yeah and i think people tie that you know the idea of god or even the idea of a higher self too i

(22:37):
see that a lot and i had uh a comment on youtube videos one of my trip report ones i think it was
the one that i labeled like i talked to god and they they were talking about higher self and how
you know some sometimes days can be tough but i know my higher self is like you know watching
out or something like that and i was just like you know my response was something like that's great

(23:01):
and all but like don't forget that you are your higher self now there is no separation there's no
like disconnect that they're like a separate thing like there is no disconnect whatsoever
so realize that and you can be that now like you don't have to continue looking at it as
like this north star that you're you know or even something that you know has your back kind of like

(23:24):
as a safety net i feel like people kind of even if they don't necessarily believe in god they believe
in the concept of higher self and it's like another sort of concept belief system and then
someone else hopped into the thread and was asking about you know if if you do you know not have a
sense of lack or if you do believe these things or something like why strive for anything as a human

(23:50):
and i was like well strive because you can you know but you don't have to do it any longer
out of this sense of lack feeling like you need to strive in order to be complete or strive in order
to be fulfilled or accomplish all these things in order to be a complete human you can be that

(24:11):
complete human now and then their response was i'm not remembering everything perfectly but something
like well then you know if that were the case like what what do you do and i'm like my response was
well that is the case with a smiley face and for me i enjoy creating content making videos doing

(24:31):
podcasts walking you know hanging with my friends hanging with my family you know working out so i
do those things that's it it's not to feel this level of completeness or that i need to do it in
order to you know accomplish this self sense of fulfillment and until then i will feel this sense
of lack it's like i do them knowing i am whole and complete now because i can because why not

(24:56):
yeah it's all just gravy after that right that's the whole thing it doesn't matter what i do now
i'm just doing it because i can but it's getting rid of that need it it does it changes everything
it changes the entire experience you have and it changes the ripple that you send out in
the world and you know it's funny it's kind of a catch-22 in that way because you you almost have

(25:18):
to abandon the idea of changing the world in order to change the world in a positive way you have to
come back to your own existence you have to come back to to your alignment with reality to your
alignment with yourself and then in that state where you are fulfilled or you can do anything
you're suddenly creating ripples that you never did before because you're not trying anymore like

(25:42):
what you just said like i just do all that because i can't that to you you it's just it just makes
sense now it's just the way things are but to somebody who had never heard that state of mind
to somebody who was always trying to jump through hoops that they themselves were creating
that would be a mind-blowing statement and i know that because people have said the same thing to me
it's like what do you mean you don't listen to the voice in your head it's like when it's in there it

(26:05):
doesn't doesn't require my attention it's just always there right so you and i we kind of take
this for granted because we're on the path but to somebody who's never heard of the path to somebody
who's never taken a step down that path or at least doesn't remember taking steps down that path
because we all have right then all of a sudden it's like you're speaking in another language
but i and again i'm absolutely convinced that's just because of lack of exposure i'm convinced

(26:30):
of it because think about it this way we're having this conversation and we're talking we're looking
at christianity and we're going through the christian mythology and we're going this all
seems like you could look at it a different way and it would make a lot more sense if you did
and as we have that conversation people are joining us they're joining us on discord or on
patreon or in the comments section not everybody uh gets upset by everything we say by on by

(26:56):
by no means are we upsetting a large percentage of our audience it's actually a rather small
percentage most people are resonating with this very well and so when you look at all of that and
you see that change happening it's encouraging it really is and you look at the world and you go oh
well maybe it's just the fact that not enough people are talking about this this way maybe it's

(27:18):
just the fact that not enough people have been out and about having this conversation because
like i said 20 years ago i tried to have this conversation and it was the majority of people
were you know no there's a god you're being egotistical it's like well hold on let's just talk
about this no don't want to talk about it okay well that's the end of that conversation i'm just
going to continue on with my life well here we are 20 years later and that the ratio of people who

(27:42):
want to talk about it versus who don't is vastly vastly different like there's so many more people
who want to have this conversation not because they're looking for some deep connection to god
but because they're they're tired of suffering right which is what that mentality creates
which is the thing that always gets me like like you you just said earlier that the only true

(28:03):
religion is none well yeah because as soon as you identify you've divided yourself from everybody as
soon as you're holding on to an idea of yourself as a sense of value you've divided yourself from
everybody except unless they agree with you unless they identify in the same way in which case now
you can kind of relate but as we said religio means to bind together the only thing that binds

(28:25):
us together is what we do is what happens when we stop separating ourselves that's the thing is that
we are bound together naturally that's that's the norm we just keep putting [ __ ] in the way
so if we can have a conversation about that habitual stuff we're putting in the way
then the conversation will start to change on its own people will start to see that they are

(28:50):
their reality they can start to live in a more fulfilled way because they allow it to happen
our biggest thing is that we we are constantly striving to become something that we already are
yeah like the greatest illusion god ever pulled was convincing itself that it wasn't god and we've

(29:10):
gotten to that point now and i you know i listen to a lot i still even we'll toss on alan watt's
speech here and there and he talks about that so much and it's just it's it's crazy that we're at
this point that like we've come so far from this understanding and and when it comes to religion
even like understanding that i'm everyone like i can see totally see the path that anyone would

(29:32):
take to wanting to hold on to that religion and it's not that i feel need to because i see myself
as everyone it's kind of like the push and pull type thing like i totally understand where they're
coming from wanting to do that but at the same time like i don't have that you know desire to
hold on to it and and yeah like the whole idea of convincing god pulling the greatest trick in the

(29:59):
world convincing itself that you know they aren't it and it's amazing it's amazing i've marveled
at that so many times the fact that we can lie to ourselves so convincingly that's pretty crazy and
it makes sense though limitless awareness right would be able to lie to itself but so the word

(30:19):
apocalypse has always intrigued me because the etymology of apocalypse is the lifting of the veil
the lifting of the illusion we always think the apocalypse is the end of the world right what if
it's just the end of that dualistic illusion of if it's the the end of our belief in that dualistic
illusion what if that's the end of the world as we know it right it was never you know armageddon

(30:42):
and meteors falling out of the sky so much as just the structures that have been contributing to our
suffering just fall apart as a result right this is something i actually really wanted to bring
up because people are saying this in response to we can change all of this by changing ourselves
well there's people at the top and they're in power and they're never going to let this go

(31:03):
and they've worked really hard to make sure that they have complete and utter control
and that might be true but it's it's like a house on sand right that house can be built out of rock
and metal it could be a really solid house but if the foundation underneath it starts to wear away
it's not going to last and the foundation of this system is us we are the foundation of this system

(31:26):
and yeah it's true you got to go out and get a job and work and do all that until enough of us
agree that that is no longer going to be the case and then we actually start making strides towards
changing that but it's important to remember that we drive the economy the economy does not drive
us we created the government the government did not create itself all of these things start with

(31:52):
humanity true they they've they have some momentum now and true they they would like us to believe
they can't be stopped too big to fail as we heard you know frequently in 2008 but we know that's
not the case and it doesn't matter who's at the top and how powerful they might feel or how rich
they might feel because as soon as that money becomes pointless as soon as humanity decides

(32:16):
we're in this together we're not going to be torn apart by this petty game of capitalism and greed
all that money becomes worthless and all they're left with is a mindset that does
nothing except make them more miserable in a world that will know will no longer provide for them
the things that they need to pad their ego so i don't i don't envy the people at the top right

(32:38):
now i don't envy those who have all the money and think that they're so secure and safe because the
panic that they're feeling right now is justified the world is changing the foundation is wearing
away the house is starting to crack right so just if you're listening to this keep that in mind
it may seem like that is a very secure house but the foundation underneath it

(32:59):
has always been us and we're changing the house is going to just fall apart
yeah certainly and the other part of that is like you know i feel like if you are still in the and
i'm not gonna say like i know you've been at this longer than i have like i'm not gonna say that i'm

(33:20):
like totally disidentified from andrew or to the extent that you know ray maybe is now but like
understanding that at least to the degree that i do like i'm also not in a rush necessarily because
i know that you know i don't end when andrew dies whatever day that is so like as much as

(33:44):
and i think that's where the understanding of like be the change you want to see instead of feeling
like you have to go out and change everyone else which is typically futile it just like
doesn't happen as you've mentioned many times that like you yeah you used to be in that mindset and
just kind of realize that it's not going anywhere and so realizing that you are the change you don't

(34:07):
feel as much of a need to go out and force all of this change you can just more allow the change to
happen through you and through you and doing you know things like this like we hit 180 subscribers
on youtube recently it was like [ __ ] awesome it's like picking up steam very quickly and
it's cool to see and like we're not in a rush like we don't have you know set expectations

(34:31):
and goals of like or like even talking about we talk about this stuff we don't encourage people
to like go out and do things we just talk about and i think through the conversation
and through like you mentioned someone who has never even come across conversations like this
just realizing that they're happening can be enough and like we've talked about so many

(34:55):
times we just have these conversations for the sake of having these conversations and as people
listen more and more like they'll see that it's a possibility to live in a state where you're not
you know necessarily in the rat race trying to accomplish things like endlessly feeling this you
know innate sense of of lack and like you need to accomplish more and become more and do more

(35:19):
and and get more and it's like you can strive for things and do things without the need to be
more or without the need to fill this insatiable void that will never be complete as long as you
keep trying to fulfill it thinking from this mindset that there is something that needs

(35:40):
filling in the first place need need was my big one man i got to tell you that was the one that
if i had a tool that helped me crawl out of hell it was just the self-honest reflection on my need
just why do i need that what am i looking for and at first it can be kind of a bitter pill

(36:01):
because you keep coming up with this whole well what's wrong with me wanting that
why can't i just have that it's not fair and there is no fair right there's no such thing
as fair um there's this great uh series of books by terry pratchett called the discworld and and
there's character the grim reaper and he's kind of reflecting on on the universe at one point

(36:26):
and um somebody says you know where's the mercy and he says you know take any any star in the
universe and grind it in the dust look through all the pieces you find me one fragment of mercy
right there isn't mercy is a human thing it's something that we've created right but
it's just it's so very interesting to me that the conversation we're having is really just about

(36:51):
allowing yourself to see your intelligence right and what i enjoy is the comments that we get
back like one comment we got this week was uh you guys are speaking a language i didn't know i was
fluent in and i thought that was great that was so good right and then another person wrote today
uh in response to to something i had written back to their question and the only thing i had left

(37:15):
was you know i can't really give you too much in the way of advice over text but try not to believe
in that your perception is the truth just always question whether the way you're looking at things
is the way they actually are because that will always give you more opportunities for insight
well that person wrote back to me they're like wow i actually spent a lot of time thinking

(37:36):
about that like that really hit and it helped you and i we talk about this all the time it's
like yeah that's what we do every minute of the day like we're always just kind of going this is
really nice but is it and it's just so we can see another look another way of seeing it right it's
not even a need so much as just it's like walking through a garden smelling all the flowers right

(38:00):
that's what different perceptions are they're different flowers with different bouquets and
different colors right and so allowing yourself to explore them is just walking through the garden
right and i i like the symbolism there i know it sounds more pleasant than it is because sometimes
there are bees and some unpleasant flowers in that garden right but that's where discernment comes in

(38:20):
yeah certainly and yeah that brings up uh something meant to bring up i know you've talked
in the past about how you're just like kind of relentless with these things and you know it can
be you've mentioned before that it can be you know tough to live with you or whatever because you
don't really let things slide and i notice that with myself a lot that like with my family they'll

(38:41):
say something and i'll be like is it you know is it that way like are you sure about that and they
were like andrew shut the [ __ ] up because it's like just let me have this one you know
judgment or perception or like thought about you know opinion and it's like it's just my opinion
or whatever and i'm like you know honestly i think the world might be a better place if no one

(39:03):
had opinions ever and they and they didn't you know express their opinions and and i
understand it from one side of like you know it's kind of it's kind of like the illusion
of duality like it's okay to have as long as you don't you know take it as the truth and
it's the same thing with opinions and and you know people close to me have gotten into this

(39:23):
idea through friends or whatever that you know they should have an opinion on everything
and you know everything every topic they should be able to express some type of opinion about it and
i'm like quite frankly i don't even know if i have any opinions about anything because i know that i
don't have the full picture like i don't know the whole truth of it so how the [ __ ] am i supposed

(39:44):
to have an opinion about it if i don't even know like five percent of what's going on like you know
celebrity gossip that blows my mind that people actually you know talk about it or have opinions
on celebrities lives like it absolutely it's always blown my mind my entire life i've never
understood it whatsoever but especially now it's like how can you have an opinion on that

(40:10):
you've never met them you've never even seen them in person you've never had a conversation
with them you've never had any sort of interaction with them so like how could you possibly have an
opinion on them like that is nuts it's like it's kind of like you know the gospels in the bible
their perception you're having opinion on someone else's perception of jesus whereas when

(40:32):
you actually you know read a text like gospel of thomas that it's actually more closer to like what
he actually said you can actually form your own opinion instead of having an opinion of an opinion
which is a lot of what the celebrity gossip stuff is it's just someone else's opinion about
someone else and then you get that information filtered through their opinion and it's like
that's why i don't really have many opinions because i don't know it just comes back to i don't

(40:57):
know like it could be that they could be an [ __ ] or they could be super nice and just someone had a
negative interaction with them and they portrayed them as an [ __ ] and now like you know 10 million
people think they're an [ __ ] but like do you actually know that have you ever talked to them
exactly well i mean opinion opinion is another one of those things that always reinforces identity

(41:17):
right because i am my opinions right that's typically how we think about it and so yeah every
time we have an opinion on something there's almost this juice we get out of it like aha
i feel more certain about who i am now i am this person with this opinion right and so it becomes
addictive opinions are addictive right even when they're negative even when they're ruining

(41:39):
your experience the idea of not having an opinion again is counterintuitive as you and i have talked
about many times right it's just like well i could abandon this opinion but then what would i think
it's like something else i don't know it's like it opens up to your options um but but that's
the whole thing is that it's just a perspective it's just a perspective until you hold on to it

(42:02):
and go nope this is what i've decided is the truth for me but i'm way more likely to need to do that
if i'm not enjoying my existence right if i can only find enjoyment through comparison to
somebody else's existence then i'm going to feed on gossip as much as i can because it gives me
perspectives that allow me to feel better than them that's the wonderful wonderful

(42:25):
thing about gossip it's always putting someone down right so it's very easy to boost yourself
up when you're addicted to that kind of thing right and celebrity gossip's no different but
we do that with everybody i mean so that video i made about the the root of the system is us
god got a harsh response by a few people just saying well there are social sociopaths and

(42:45):
narcissists at the top of the pyramid and they're going to ruin it for everybody and
i've i've mentioned this to you before that it is so very dangerous to just label somebody
as a sociopath or a narcissist or a psychopath and just categorize them and shove them aside
like that is who they are and because they're humans just like you and i like donald trump

(43:10):
perfect example donald trump is practically a textbook narcissist if you look at his life
i feel super bad for donald trump look at his dad look at his parents look at the upbringing he had
look at their mentality look at the world he was born into and molded by yet we're just going to

(43:32):
throw a label narcissist and disregard him as a piece of [ __ ] right because that's who he's
become but we all started to the same blank slate so if we just label people and disregard them as
worse than us nobody changes it's like the old expression two wrongs don't make a right
right so being intolerant of intolerant people doesn't fix anything i understand it's the easier

(43:57):
solution i understand it is the easier solution to separate somebody who is who is destructive
rather than to show them empathy and help them find a way out of that destructive pattern
i get that that is the crux of all addiction therapy right is you don't just take those
addicts and throw them in the gutter you show them empathy despite their destructive behavior despite

(44:22):
the habits that they've become accustomed to so they can find their way out of that but we don't
take that same mentality when it comes to greedy self-absorbed people we're just like no you're
egotistical you're part of the problem right you're a narcissist you're a psychopath you're
great we all are we all have badness we all have the ability to be self-absorbed to the point of

(44:42):
ignoring everybody else and showing a complete lack of consideration we all have that it's just
a spectrum right and that spectrum was often um exacerbated or added to over the course of our
lives in the environment that we're subjected to or that we subject ourselves to and so nothing's
ever black and white and and the fact is that i truly believe that there are people today in

(45:05):
the upper one percent who are rich and comfortable and and living it living the high life as it were
who are completely miserable in themselves and if they had a chance to have this conversation would
surprise everybody and and turn and repent as it were turn the other way i absolutely believe that

(45:27):
because there are people who have a lot of money who are miserable and they would give
it all up they could just enjoy their existence they really would and that's that's what jesus
was trying to say when the rich man asked him like you know can a rich man get into heaven
and he's like yeah you've got about as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel does through the
eye of a needle right let go of all your [ __ ] right and then you're there and that was very

(45:51):
much the point just let it all go it doesn't and and so to anybody who's suffered enough
that's a good deal right and i'm not going to say that just because somebody is in the upper
one percent just because they are comfortable and have all that money that they're not suffering
i know from my experience with clients and otherwise that that's not the case

(46:12):
and so as this conversation spreads as much as the people the one at the
top are comfortable and in a certain mentality that you know perpetuates that that hierarchy
i think the conversation changes the environment the environment offers uh other opportunities and
more importantly it offers other perspectives of the value that they've always had within them that

(46:32):
they always thought they needed money to prove see they're just as trapped as we are that's the
whole thing about rich people is that it's kind of like christian people right it's sad in that
they know all the right words they know all the concepts right they just can't get to the
truth right same with rich people they've got all this money they've got all this value they just

(46:53):
don't feel valuable without it right and so it's it's kind of sad it's like being able to go on a
five-star vacation and not enjoying any of it right so this problem that we're having in our
mentality defining ourselves separating ourselves feeling this sense of lack is not just something

(47:13):
that happens to those who are impoverished or those who are struggling financially
it's something that is happening to the entirety of humanity because it is a part of identity our
over commitment to this idea of ourselves will always leave us in a perpetual state of hell
yeah going back to that idea of people you know the open-mindedness debate with you know i'm

(47:38):
open-minded until it's someone who's closed-minded and then i'm not open-minded about that and it
really is the easy way out i've never really heard it uh coined in that sort of way or expressed in
that sort of way but like yeah when you think about it like that is that's the easy way out
because you don't have to continue you know questioning it's like you want to stop questioning

(47:58):
it i feel like a lot of things come back to this idea of questioning and then you're so
sure and it's like you're able to label them as a narcissist or a racist or a psychopath or anything
and it's just like you know they're boxed up and you know you don't have to worry about it anymore
or think about it anymore it's like that is a fact and there's so many times when someone will

(48:20):
say like in an interview i'll see on whatever you know social media and someone will say like
name name a narcissist and it's like donald trump is the first to come to mind it's like
everyone's just packaged him up like that and like you mentioned no one has taken the time to
look at the path that he took to get there and he started you know carte blanche blake slit blank

(48:42):
slate like everyone else and i have a friend i highly doubt he listens to this podcast but um
i'm not going to name any names although if anyone listening who has you know interacted
with me they'll know who i'm talking about but he um his family owns uh or owned growing up a major
league sports team and a lot of my friends said would always say how like they would

(49:05):
you know love to trade places with him they would do it in a heartbeat and i always said like
that the life that he had it is and you know he's a great kid like one of my good friends um
and all of that but i always said like i don't know if i would trade with him like it seems
great on the surface but there are a lot of things that come with that sort of upbringing and yeah

(49:30):
like they have a lot of money but there's parts of that that you know that's not it there's so many
other aspects of it it's just like a small piece of the pie and yeah you know they're
very comfortable they have a lot of things and everything but there are so many other aspects
of this human experience that have nothing to do with that and i think there are a lot of people

(49:52):
getting out of that example just in general people who have especially kids who have upbringings like
that like i would never i'm so glad my parents aren't rich and famous people like or celebrity
i mean like celebrity category type people like imagine growing up as a kid with parents who are
you know like major mega celebrities like how you know that is i don't know a tough environment i

(50:19):
can imagine obviously there's a lot of them that come out as you know great people and you know
they enjoy their lives and whatever but i think it's way more difficult to come out of that than
come out of just growing up in a you know more you know quote-unquote when it comes to the bell core
bell curve of normality a more normal life that most people you know grow up in a city

(50:43):
or suburbs or outside that and just kind of have more of a life where you know you're not
in the spotlight all the time even if it comes with you know riches and fame and everything
and there's a quote by jim carrey i think i've said it before but you know i wish everyone
could become rich and famous and accomplish all of their hopes and dreams to realize that it's

(51:05):
not the answer and i think he is a prime example of that he had all these things he
you know was on the manifestation train you know he wrote a 10 million dollar check dated you know
some day in 1995 to himself when he had hardly any money and that was you know the year that
he signed you know dumb and dumber the mask and whatever and made i think over 10 million dollars

(51:27):
or exactly 10 million dollars and he had in the eyes of the world as successful of a career as you
could possibly imagine and he came out the other end and when he was there he was like i don't feel
fulfilled i feel empty inside and he went through a state of depression until he realized that you
know jim carrey was just another character that he had been playing his entire life no differently

(51:49):
than any other character he'd played in a movie and i think he started to question his perceptions
of himself and his identity and reality and he got to the understanding that you know there is no me
and he has some awesome interviews that i [ __ ] love and they're all labeled it's funny because
on youtube they're labeled like jim carrey crait goes crazy you know in interview like

(52:11):
jim carrey goes mad in interview and he's all he's saying is there is no me like none of this
matters this is all made up this isn't you know essentially saying this is a dream and
the uh interviewer just cannot come close to comprehending what he's talking about she's like
what do you mean you don't believe in icons and and stars and he's like no none of this

(52:37):
is real none of this matters you know isn't that isn't that great and then he just kind of smiles
and keeps walking and it's so interesting just his whole journey because he was one of the first
people that i you know four years ago or so that i started seeing some of that stuff and it started
started getting curious about what he was talking about and it didn't even i didn't
even fully understand it until a few months ago what he was talking about exactly but yeah it's uh

(53:04):
it's it's interesting and the whole idea of like we talked about i think two episodes ago of of
redefining that pinnacle of success and and realizing that you know fame and fortune isn't
gonna make you feel fulfilled in and of itself and and as long as you keep striving for that

(53:24):
you're never gonna get it yeah well it's it's the assumption right it's the assumption that
this is going to be the way it is when i get there or this person is the way they are or this person
is the way i see them right because assumptions give us that sense of certainty again right that
allows us to go this is the world now i know what i'm dealing with now i can define myself dealing

(53:47):
with that right and so it's just constantly coming up with that idea who are we and and what does
that mean about me and how i interact with the world which always ends up getting in the way
but it's interesting actually because uh we were talking about identifying and whatnot
um one comment i often get and it's funny to me actually this comment came from my video from

(54:10):
2005 where i just come out of the woods my hair was like you know down my back the whole thing
and i was looking pretty scruffy and and somebody wrote sure step one be white right because somehow
it was my being white that contributed to me selling all of my possessions and living

(54:30):
homeless in a forest in a shack that i built out of spare wood right and so i i thought it was
interesting i wrote back i'm like i would really love to know exactly which part of skin color
is a requirement for being homeless in which case that person didn't respond anymore but
i thought it was interesting because the comment was sure just you're just you just have to be

(54:51):
white i don't identify as white and and a large reason for that is because when i was a kid
growing up a lot of my friends were indigenous right uh and so when i first encountered racism
from other white kids i talked to my grandfather about it and he explained to me he's like well
people will say we're white but if you're angry your skin will turn red

(55:17):
right if you're sick you'll get a little gray a little green if you get bruised you'll turn black
and blue like so your skin's changing color all the time it's not something you can identify with
and i thought that was a great a great lesson for a kid who was like four or five years old
first learning about racism and so i never really identified as white i identified as you know my

(55:39):
ancestry's from europe mostly right but i thought it was really interesting that even
the expression white people is a fairly new expression it didn't come out until the 1600s
i never knew that i thought that was really interesting that up until about that point
we were just different types of european people right you had french people british people german

(56:01):
people right italian people they were they weren't classified holy and and together as white people
that came later on as a justification for slavery because then they could divide white people from
colored people and that gave them that that division so they could feel superior
based on identity again so they just basically came up with a new identity that they could

(56:24):
partnerize everybody else into and those people now became white people but we never were even now
right we're not white people we're just people with a slightly different color of skin right and
so i think a part of our evolution towards dissolving the borders between us racially

(56:45):
is going to be to a very large degree white people getting over this need to identify as white people
right because it's not a real thing i'm not white this is pink and fleshy it's very different
right and so as long as we're identifying i might as well just identify with a certain shade in
which case there are millions of them and there's no point in identifying with a color at all but

(57:09):
it's again it's the assumption right as soon as i have an idea i can put you in it that's it and it
doesn't matter if it's narcissist or white person or republican doesn't matter right it's that as
soon as i put a label on you you are no longer you you're no longer the constantly changing entity

(57:30):
of awareness that you are you are now the box that i've put you in and i no longer have to listen to
you because i know everything i need to know about that box i made it and that is a serious danger
that that is by far one of the biggest hurdles we have to get over is is this certainty thing this
idea that it because i have an idea it must be the truth because it makes me feel really really good

(57:54):
and that's it that's our measure of truth yeah yeah definitely yeah when it comes to the idea
of race as well i i find a lot of times you know it and with the group think and with
politics especially in the u.s i feel like we're getting more and more into this space where people
are just like the group think is is out of control and people don't even i think i mentioned this

(58:19):
on a previous podcast we talked about the idea that um people don't even make up their own
opinions about things until they understand what their side of the aisle is thinking
about that and it's like it's wild how people are just getting categorized is like you know
anything anything at all any topic it's like so polarizing and there's only you know two options

(58:44):
and there's no gray area of nuance in certain things either you know you're this or you're
that either you're this or you're that either you're this or you're that there's no there's
we're getting so far away from the individuality of all of that and people you know they won't make
up their mind about something until they know what their side is thinking and then

(59:05):
yeah when when it comes to the idea of race as well you know i was always kind of
taught growing up that like you know not like you just don't judge someone based on how they look
period whether it's race or anything or they have long hair or short hair or whatever and you know

(59:26):
it's you know as martin luther king jr said the content of their character not the color of their
skin and and the whole idea of you know nowadays like if you say something like i don't see
color when i interact with someone it's like you're immediate you're labeled as being racist
if you say that like you are straight up told like that is a racist thing to say and it's like that's

(59:47):
literally the opposite of racism like if there was a polar opposite of racism it would be saying that
you know i don't see color i don't judge people based on how they look but it's like
now it's almost like you have to see that and then act accordingly and you know be careful about
what you do or say or you know think about someone and you it's almost like they're telling you you

(01:00:13):
should go in with some preconceived judgments about the person because of how they look
you know you have to be careful about what you say or whatever because you know you should see
color it's there so like you have to see it you know i identify as this so you have to see that
you know i am identified as this even if you don't identify as anything whatsoever and it's
like well what if i don't identify as this human even like what are you gonna say to me like why

(01:00:38):
are you saying that i have to identify as this and are you gonna say that you have opinions about me
immediately because of how i look or that i should have opinions about you immediately because of how
you look like it's so backwards the way that we are approaching this idea and it's just
reinforcing the same mentality that got us into such [ __ ] up situations for so like the

(01:01:03):
last i don't know a couple thousands of years of humanity or however however long we've dealt with
things like slavery to begin with like that is the exact mentality that got us into it and it's like
you know that idea we come back to with einstein saying like a problem can't be solved at the level
of consciousness that it was created on and it's the same sort of thing and i just see it
so often and it's like i don't know i'm gonna do my part you know be the change i'm not gonna

(01:01:29):
go around telling people that you know they should or shouldn't be acting whatever way but
i'm gonna do my best to you know be yeah change and understand that that's about the extent of
of this awareness's capability yeah well that's all we can do right i mean so it's so dangerous
especially with with the media and and the way things are in our reality right now in terms

(01:01:52):
of information and uh entertainment and whatnot because the expression you know i don't see color
originally the the intention there was to get rid of the walls like we're all just one right but
then somebody from from another perspective somebody who had been hurt obviously went i

(01:02:13):
don't want to be like you i want you to respect my differences right i want you to see that we
are different and that you respect me regardless you know we don't have to be the same for you
to to respect me and to some degree i mean that's that's true too i mean it's the same thing that
you and i are saying about duality you can accept duality exists without buying into it wholesale as
truth and the same is true for for skin color or or different cultures right like you can respect

(01:02:37):
the differences in cultures the differences in skin color the differences in gender
without committing to it wholesale as truth as if those differences are are separations
rather than just variations right but i think the danger is that when when society weighs in
in terms of the media or or corporate interest and they they say okay so society says this is true

(01:03:04):
now like for example society says the expression i don't see color is a racist expression
trevor noah was making a comment recently about uh what happened to dave chappelle
chappelle made some comments about the trans community on his last stand-up special and and
you know they came out in force for what he was saying and so trevor noah was doing an interview

(01:03:28):
and the person who was interviewing was saying like you know do you think he crossed the line and
trevor noah's response was beautiful in that what line right like where you see the line really what
really depends on what's which side you stand on because what what the interview we're saying is
society creates the line and it's like but hold on if half the people in society are

(01:03:53):
for what chappelle said and half the people in society are against what chappelle said
then society is not creating a line half is on one side of it half is on the other side
there is no line except for how people perceive it right but we come up with this idea society says
this well which percentage and are they the percentage that's currently controlling the media

(01:04:16):
right are they the percentage that's controlling the medium that the message is coming through
because that makes a lot more sense if that's why we believe that it's the whole society
believes this but it's never the case you can't generalize society you just can't there's so
many different perspectives of everything and so it really just comes back down to

(01:04:37):
that idea that it's never the assumption it's always something deeper i mean
i don't see color when i first heard that i went that's a lovely sentiment when a friend of mine
who's african-american expressed i don't really like that statement
my first thought was why and they explained it and i went oh well that makes sense and then we had a

(01:05:04):
conversation about well you could see where the intention might not have been to be that obtuse
right the intention may have been to be more unifying it may not have been to
deliberately exclude culture and and those other considerations and he recognized that too
but he even said not everybody's going to come at it from that perspective some people are just

(01:05:24):
you should be like us and that was a valid point as well and so i think what we're saying
repeatedly throughout every episode on here um is that you can't just take a statement at face
value regardless of the assumptions you have about the person who's saying that statement
right it's worth questioning it's worth looking a shade deeper because you might in that

(01:05:44):
conversation have an opportunity for them to have a new insight or for you to have a new insight or
just to discover that maybe the division that you perceived wasn't the same division that's actually
there when somebody looks at me and calls me a honky or when somebody calls me a privileged white
person i get that i'm not going to defend myself from that statement because they don't know me

(01:06:07):
or my life and for them to make that assumption about me is obviously about them and their life
and so if if it really is important to me to bridge that gap i'm not going to defend my idea of
myself it's more important that i figure out why they why they're making those assumptions about
me and if there's anything i can do to dispel that assumption to allow them to have an insight that

(01:06:28):
maybe people aren't what they see them to be maybe that's true for some people but not
everybody and it's just like anything else if you can just question your habitual response or your
habitual perception you allow yourself room for growth that's it that's all it is it's just look
if you're going to talk to a republican you can assume that they have republican values

(01:06:49):
but they may not have consistent republican values right because there's no real such
there's no such thing as republican values there are just values that people who are
republican identified with typically right and so it's just about questioning the label the
opinion the idea and giving each of us a chance to step outside of them to be a different person

(01:07:13):
yeah i think something i've gotten better with uh last i don't know year or two is just being able
to you know with the whole idea of understanding that i am everyone like seeing myself and everyone
like not getting so not that i ever really got that offended but even when people bring
up things like you know silver spoon privilege you know conventionally attractive white boy like you

(01:07:39):
never had anything you know how could you have ever had any struggles whatever and it's like
i used to be like oh [ __ ] that [ __ ] like you know and think of all these things like yeah i've
struggled you know especially with you know and it's funny when people bring off like the anxiety
part like i had i had last year uh buzzfeed took a compilation of like a bunch of my videos and

(01:08:02):
posted it on their instagram that's how i think i got like a few thousand instagram followers
from that and they i i was sipping to the comments because i wanted to like get in there and respond
to a bunch because i like doing that and so i was reading some of them and it was buzzfeed so like
you know there's a lot of people out there who just love to say [ __ ] and it's like oh
you know not a privileged white boy telling me about my anxiety or something and it's like the

(01:08:27):
fact that you're gatekeeping anxiety to something that like a white male can't uh feel in any way
just like blows my mind it's like i get it with certain things maybe to a degree but like
when it comes to anxiety it's like and i see that sometimes too when people say things like you know
why is that person anxious like they have nothing to be anxious about like they're you know whatever

(01:08:52):
like attractive you know have a bunch of money whatever like they're famous like why would they
have anxiety or like mental health issues and i'm like any like what are you talking about anyone
can have it especially someone in that position a lot of times because you know they question things
and they they feel they they have all these things but because like we've talked about so many times

(01:09:14):
our society has those things on this like pedestal people think that if you have those things then
you should never feel a sense of lack but it's like that isn't the actual we've created that
pedestal thinking that that is the pedestal but it's not so like it's even playing field when it

(01:09:36):
comes to things especially like anxiety so i find that so interesting when someone's like you know
how could you how can you talk about this like in your position whatever and i'm like i was like if
you saw me in high school you would know why i talk about this stuff because i was not the same
like i hardly spoke i was nervous all the time i worried about what any single person's opinion of

(01:10:01):
me was like that doesn't your color your skin your upbringing does not come into play whatsoever when
you're going through feelings like that like you can't even like there you can't even see which
way is up when you're living your existence based on all those things like you know i talk about a
lot now like living based on that is completely futile it's completely impossible to appease

(01:10:26):
all those people so coming at it from an actual logical perspective it's no wonder that it's such
a high degree of suffering trying to live in a place like that because it's physically mentally
impossible like you can't do it and live in that way successfully i don't even know what word to

(01:10:47):
use but like it's it's not actually possible so i just i find it very interesting when people
you know just have these assumptions about because of how they identify you to be like you
should be able to live x y z way or like shouldn't struggle with this and it's like
who are you to tell me what i can and can't struggle with like who are you to gatekeep some

(01:11:11):
sort of suffering to only yourself like that you i don't know it's just it's i find it to be very
interesting and the whole idea of someone growing up a certain way or living a certain way and like
my friend i mentioned before like growing up in a certain type of environment where you know you
have a lot of money that's more conducive to having mental struggles because the physical

(01:11:35):
struggles aren't there so it's almost like the struggles you know balance out to be on
one side to the extreme which can be a lot more difficult to get through in a lot of ways or at
least equally as difficult to get through yeah absolutely you can't compare pain i've said this
so many times with so many clients is that you can't compare people's suffering because

(01:11:58):
the suffering is is in context to the rest of their life right i think it was uh louis ck uh
back over 10 years ago made the point that you know um a parent looking at their kid at the
carnival kid lost their balloon they're like i just suck it up and his point was
you know if i took your wallet and put it on a balloon and let it float away you'd be like no

(01:12:21):
so everything is in context right to that kid that was his wallet flying away that that balloon was
important and so pain can't be compared but it's interesting because it goes back to this this
statement of responsibility in the present moment for the experience that i'm having
we always want to blame our environment right like when i was struggling financially

(01:12:44):
let's just say when i was having problems eating to keep it as simple as possible um
i often would say like oh it's easy for you to be to be happy you have food you have money you have
you have a car you you have a parent parents who love you you have a support network blah blah blah
and it was because i thought if i had those things my life would be better

(01:13:06):
what i was disregarding was that even if i had those things i was still there living
that life and all of the things that i was holding on to so it wouldn't have changed
my my experience very much at all sure i would have had more food but i probably wouldn't have
appreciated that food to the same degree sure i would have had more convenience but
i probably would have used that convenience to compare myself to people who didn't have

(01:13:30):
that convenience and give myself a sense of value and and so it was still me going with it
regardless but i know i would often look at other people who had the things that i thought would
make my life better and say how can you be unhappy you have all the things that i think would make
my life better right but it was always based on that on that idea of but this would make me happy

(01:13:53):
why aren't you happy you have it right and that was because i i genuinely didn't understand that
nothing makes you happy nothing there is nothing external that has the ability to create happiness
within you it's all your response to it it's all your response to the external thing it has nothing

(01:14:14):
to do with the external thing so if it has nothing to do with the external thing then your response
right now can change regardless regardless and and that was the thing is that i i had to learn
to make the most out of being poor and starving to find the joy in that

(01:14:34):
and when i did that's when everything started to turn around that's when my life started to change
and it wasn't it wasn't for no other reason than the fact that i wasn't dwelling on the things that
were killing my energy right i wasn't dwelling on things that were pulling down my potential
and squandering it in this idea of myself while i was comparing and competing with everybody else
i didn't need to compare and compete i was doing the most with what i had

(01:14:57):
nobody else was in my position that's the thing right as soon as you stop comparing pain
you realize nobody else would do a better job with your life ever they would do the exact same job
that you are so don't worry about what they would be doing do you focus on you make the most of your
experience here and now and i know that that's difficult i know that's difficult when you're down

(01:15:19):
to like two hot dogs and a pack a pack of uh itchy ichivan or a couple noodles
and that's your whole meal for the next two days like i get what that feels like it's not easy
it's not easy to look at things when they're hard and make the most of it but that doesn't mean it's
not possible and i say that from experience i know it's possible it's just difficult at first right

(01:15:44):
but the more you do it the more you can start to let go of your cerebral or your perceptual prison
the more your reality will start to shift along with that and so it really just comes down to
recognizing your environment will change but what you do with your environment you're training
yourself to do now so if things are hard right now just remind yourself they won't they won't

(01:16:06):
always be hard they haven't always been hard even in the last 30 days of your life you've had
moments of levity i guarantee it whether it was short or long moments of levity there are breaks
the trick is being able to take advantage of those breaks when they happen so you can revitalize
yourself and then go into the next thing with a fresh perspective and i wanted to bring this

(01:16:27):
up actually because you recently went out uh you went out drinking and you had a bit of a hangover
the next day and you were saying uh whereas i wrote this down that whenever you're hungover
you tend to feel a little bit more anxious right you tend to think a little bit more about yourself
that oddly enough is consistent that's absolutely true because when we're in a low state

(01:16:48):
of energy we almost have this knee-jerk response to reach for identification for a source of energy
i find that so interesting that as soon as we're low whether i'm sick or i'm hungover or i'm just
depressed i reach for my identity to try and buoy me and that's what what makes me sink even further

(01:17:09):
and as soon as i start questioning that that's when i start feeling better as soon as i start
questioning the identity i'm reaching for i start going oh oh okay i can do subways today and i
start feeling a little bit better about that and everything changes my energy picks up and
i stop thinking about myself but i always find it interesting that in a state of low physical energy
my brain will immediately reach for the fiction of me yeah yeah that's funny you wrap that up because

(01:17:33):
i feel that all the time and i feel like it's it's almost like this pull and i've never thought about
it in that sense of like grasping to identity and wanting to hold on to that but it is that's where
it comes from because that's where anxiety and like more depressed feelings come from when you
and your identity are in the way and and when you were talking about um when you're when

(01:17:57):
you were in states of suffering and close to you know starvation and being able to sort of
make the most of your situation something i did want to bring up that i know we've talked
about in the past uh when it comes to things like law of attraction i think this ties into
that video i kind of made talking about you know feeling anxious when i'm hungover or whatever or

(01:18:17):
you know being in a in a state of very difficult suffering type part of your life where you know
you're you're starving you barely have any food and being able to you know sort of
see and and understand there are bright lights despite it so when it comes to law of attraction
like things that i have when i talk to people about it a lot of times even if like they get

(01:18:42):
the whole grasping for the thing you know it's like conversation like it's not the thing it's
the feeling that comes with the thing so i wanted to ask you about this because i don't know
i i see i think especially since we have had more conversations about it the idea of
grasping for anything is almost like reinforcing that feeling of identity and reinforcing ego so

(01:19:08):
even if it's like you know you're not grasping for the thing you're grasping for the feeling
or however you want to label it but in what you were just expressing it's not you're not grasping
for anything you're you're seeing what is there without the distortion of the ego so when when i
have conversations with people like that i kind of just like a lot of times i'm like yeah okay

(01:19:31):
like because they're very identified with that especially if it's like a manifestation person
they're like yeah it's never the thing like oh of course not like it's it's just the feeling
yeah so like you can have that feeling now and you can feel that feeling now you know whether it's
feeling like you've already gotten it or just feeling that feeling in some way you can
have that feeling now but from your perspective like i want to hear your thoughts on just that

(01:19:55):
whole idea of it's not the thing it's a feeling it's okay to you know reach for the feeling and
do you think that that is just as i mentioned like reinforcing that feeling of ego dualistic
like separative identity from everything that there is a thing that is separate as opposed to
from what you were just discussing going through suffering and and feelings of starvation even

(01:20:20):
just being here now seeing what is without the distortion as opposed to you know striving for
a feeling or you know not thing but feeling that comes with the thing absolutely no it's
exactly the same there's no difference right it's just it so it becomes okay so

(01:20:42):
let's just say that what you want uh is a chili dog okay so when you get that chili dog
how's it gonna taste just just imagine the feeling just imagine it just imagine how that chili dog's
gonna taste it's good right and when you have that chili dog this is the feeling you're gonna have
do you think the chili dog is really gonna taste like you're envisioning it does right now

(01:21:05):
no because it's what it is and you're envisioning something there's a difference between your ideal
and your illusions and the reality there's a very big difference between how you perceive
something to be and how it actually is so that's one problem is you're assuming that you're going
to have a certain feeling that you've created when you get to that thing and you're disregarding the

(01:21:27):
entire journey to get there the other thing is the fact that you're tying your happiness
to the accomplishment of that thing regardless if you're like oh i'm not trying to get the thing
just trying to get the feeling that goes with the thing it's the same thing you're just rewording
it so it doesn't sound like you're being greedy that it just it just sounds better it's a little
easier for the ego to take that the other thing is like i'm fixating on the feeling what feeling of

(01:21:52):
satisfaction because that's going to fade really really fast right like that's the whole thing life
isn't ever one feeling that we're trying to get to like this idea that oh one day i'm gonna be happy
yeah for a few minutes then somebody's gonna kick you in the ankle or something and then you're
going to be pissed off and then the real question is how quickly can you let that go so you can get

(01:22:14):
back to another state of being nothing is ever a final destination except the end of this illusion
and even that's not a final destination because you're still everything so it just comes down to
it really just comes down to how it's packaged i mean at the end of the day and i know what
you're talking about i've had the same conversations with people it's like no
i'm not trying to create a specific thing i'm focusing on the feeling that's still projection

(01:22:39):
that's still playing make-believe that's still playing house like you're still
exiting reality so you can live in a cerebral creation that makes you feel a little bit better
temporarily but is also making you feel worse in the background because you don't have it and you
know it and that's the point right is that you can't lie to yourself not for very long

(01:23:03):
right it will come up and you know i'll be happy when i get there i'll be happy when i get there
well how long is that going to last because the farther it seems the less happy you're going to be
right the journey kills the value of the step yeah i really like that part where it's like it's just
one moment that you're like that satisfaction is fleeting it's like yeah you get there cool

(01:23:29):
but like you're there now and you get there it's it's now and you can be there now and when you
were talking about this it made me think of this idea that i i came to mind i don't know a week or
two ago how i used to you know with uh meditation and you know the journaling manifestation stuff i
used to do it religiously and and now i don't and looking back on it and being able to reflect on

(01:23:56):
that sort of experience and how i live my life now versus then was like it was still just you
know 30 minutes of my day it's not like it had this carryover lasting effect through like it
was very much a specific experience that i went through and then i went on with my day and i still

(01:24:18):
got frustrated about stuff i still struggled with things like enjoyed things whatever like it's not
like it had this it was still something i was doing in the moment but i was i was felt like i
was putting so much value or or need into doing it that i felt like you know it it did last it
did expand through the rest of my day and was you know changing my brain chemistry and whatnot and

(01:24:42):
looking back it's like it was just a experience that i would have once a day in the morning that
i would do that instead of actually living and like actually experiencing reality and when you
go through you know law of attraction like just you know attracting the feeling stuff it's like
you are kind of separating yourself from what is here and now like like you said projecting

(01:25:07):
a future reality that you're trying to bring into this reality and it's it's like you're
here now this is the reality and you're just missing it because you're taking all this time
out of your day to like project all these things and so looking back on especially something like
meditation and again i'm not anti-meditation i've said this many times it's just something that

(01:25:28):
i felt like it was sort of like taking off training reels to a degree i don't want to
sound like pretentious like i'm you know too good for meditation or some [ __ ] like that that i'm
sure some people will perceive it as but you know meditate on that i'm not not in my control
so i'm not going to worry about it but it's like looking back on it it really was just one moment

(01:25:50):
in the day and i now having it's kind of like something i had to go through to help get to these
realizations potentially but also at the same time not and now i just am here now like experiencing
each moment here and now without the as much distortion without as much many ideas of who
i am of who other people are the way the world is and seeing myself and other people so that makes

(01:26:13):
my interactions way easier whether they're super nice to me or super mean to me or pissed off at
me or happy with me like being able to see myself in them and it's like meditation it can be helpful
to take that time out of your day if you have a very busy day but at the same time it's just a
set of maybe 10 minutes maybe 15 whatever however long it's still just that situation where you can

(01:26:39):
experience that but you can get rid of that and experience it 24 7 at the same time it's just
a act in itself and this is something alan watts talks about a lot that i never really grasped
until recently was the idea because uh meditation especially now because it's become such a fad and
it's like oh we've studied this it changes your brain chemistry and you know it makes your brain

(01:27:04):
bigger in certain ways and it's like this you know practice that's beneficial
for you and and alan watts always talks about meditation in the sense like if you're doing it
for a benefit you're completely missing the point and it's doing it for the sake of doing it it's
just an act of being present setting aside time to be present but you can be present like all day and

(01:27:29):
it's like you're always present but it's more so just you know a set amount of time where you are
aware you can become aware of how much chatter is going on in your mind where if you're not you know
you've you're far from that understanding you let that run wild and you just attach to these
ideas and take them as truth and identify with all these thoughts so if you're at a place that you're

(01:27:52):
identifying with every single thing that pops into your head meditation can help you realize that
very well but once you're in a place where you're just doing it because you feel like you have to
and you think it's like this benefit for the rest of your day but you're aware when your perceptions
are arising and you can catch those judgments in the moment and question things as they come up

(01:28:14):
meditation is just an event that you do that's just like a very specific set of amount of time
and it's not necessary and and you can live your entire life as that type of meditation
but actually be doing things that you know that you enjoy and that you're enthusiastic about
yeah absolutely it's always funny right when we do something for the sake of doing it and the obvious

(01:28:40):
shows itself to be evident which is that that's the best thing for us to do uh it's just to be in
the moment doing things for the sake of doing them right and then science is like this is good for
us and people are like okay we're gonna do it for that reason which completely undercuts the entire
point and the reason it works so well right so it's it's a lot like church
uh or in meditations from a lot like church right where it's like i'll just go on sunday

(01:29:03):
then i'll connect to god the rest of the week will just get wrapped up in my confession
right and i've met people who do that it's like throughout the entire day they won't put
any effort into just keeping themselves in balance questioning themselves all of that but they'll
say i just need to go home and meditate i'll be fine it's like what are you doing right now like
you're here you might as well question what you're thinking right you guys will just take a step back

(01:29:27):
feel a little better right but no no gotta wait till i meditate that's when i really do my work
it's like it's not though i mean and that's the whole point i find it really interesting
like it's not just meditation actually that that improves um our cognitive uh behavior or
improves our brain but actually just the feeling of enthusiasm the feeling of fulfillment in itself

(01:29:49):
increases neuroplasticity which allows us to easier reset the default mode that we
think on right so just being present being present helps you refine your ability to be
present which helps you refine your ability to be so it's an endless rabbit hole which
really begs the question how far can you go down that exactly how aligned can we become

(01:30:11):
and that leads us back to the beginning of this podcast which is what is possible right and we're
not just talking about turning water to wine but actually changing the entirety of your reality you
individually not us collectively because there is no us but you individually because when you

(01:30:31):
change everything else changes right and that's the whole point it's true for anybody who's
listening to this because you're the same person regardless right so as you change everybody else
changes because we're all you and that that's incredibly exciting to me because the the
more i let go of my idea of what that means of what might be possible the more ripples i see

(01:30:56):
the more things i see transpiring as we let it go and we just allow it to happen on its own as
i work on myself i'm watching all of you work on yourselves and we're all connecting as we do this
that's incredible and i know we're wrapping up here because we're coming to the point where we
do have to do a hard stop today this will be the last episode of season one next season we're going

(01:31:18):
to be really building on this conversation that we've had today and throughout season one in terms
of the ripples that we're creating in terms of how we're going to encourage this conversation because
i think that's all we need to do is just encourage this conversation keep having this talk and bring
people into it get their opinions their insights help them as they work through their own confusion

(01:31:41):
and realize that we've all just been sitting here waiting for them to join us in reality
and that's that's exactly what it is there's nobody that we need to save
we just need to be in reality and the benefits of that will show themselves and people will come as
as a result because the system right now isn't giving everybody much of an option the the fact

(01:32:03):
is is that this system is only going to continue to provide division and suffering and as out of
necessity people are looking for an alternative and the mentality that you are experiencing
is the alternative they just don't know it yet so just keep being you that's all you need to do
yeah yeah yeah it's exciting i'm super excited for season two one thing one more thing i wanted

(01:32:27):
to bring up with that last thing you were talking about was the idea of you know needing you know
something like church to pray or whatever and i was having a conversation uh yesterday i gotta
make sure technically this is my sister's room that i'm in right now but someone in my
uh family was talking about how they've been to church the last three weeks and

(01:32:48):
and it feels really good and i always you know toss in some snide remarks here and
there and i'm like oh wow you're you're now a very good person right you've been to church
and uh they're like kind of they're always just like [ __ ] off andrew and uh and they're like
yeah well i just like it because you know i i take the time to to pray for people and whatnot and i

(01:33:11):
was like you know you don't have to go to church to do that they're like yeah but it's just the
environment and whatever and i was just pushing it and like that's probably what's guessing in
trouble here and there but yeah it's really true that people think they think they need this thing
to go to for example like church or you know they need to have this thing to pray for people or like

(01:33:36):
you know feel less judgmental about people and you know when they go to church they feel better about
themselves and it's like that's so [ __ ] do you not understand how like [ __ ] up that is that you
need that in order to feel better about yourself because they make you feel like if you don't go
you feel worse about yourself so it's like this this give and take the same thing that's making

(01:33:56):
you feel good also makes you feel bad when you don't do it and the same thing when you pray for
people if you don't pray for people but you don't need them to have those feelings you don't need
them to feel fulfilled in yourself or to take time to pray for people whatever that means for you
thinking about other people like you know having less judgments about the way other people live

(01:34:18):
or whatever it is getting yourself out of the way and your perceptions out of the way you don't need
you know that one day a week deal to do it and so i just i just find it interesting but yeah
that made me think of that because that was a little conversation that i had yesterday of just
you know questioning yeah for sure oh i i know that well i've uh i i've not made a lot of friends

(01:34:43):
while i was having those conversations but they're valuable conversations to have i
i think i think that there's a certain point where you realize that the only thing that you're ever
going to lose in having this conversation are are the um the positive perspectives of people
who don't want to have this conversation and those positive perspectives are always

(01:35:06):
superficial at best i mean they're they last as long as you're not challenging those people
in which case you're not doing them any good by not challenging those people you're just allowing
them to stay inside their box right it's the same reason that i like um doing things that
blow away people's assumptions of me because the lesson there is you shouldn't have any
you're welcome i've just helped you learn that lesson a little bit right and so it's important to

(01:35:29):
have these conversations with uh devout believers as it were because and i think this is it for me
because i'm not able to change the world i'm not out because as you said we're eternal we're not
going anywhere there's nothing to worry about but that doesn't mean that we don't have influence it
doesn't mean that we can't you know create as we would with anything else whether it be a painting

(01:35:49):
or or music or a book we're always creating and so we're always influencing the world we're always
adding to this collective as it were but what we're really just trying to get across
is that there is another option to living in this mentality of competition and lack there's another

(01:36:10):
option to fearing what happens after death there's another option to perceiving yourself
as as a puppet made of meat right like there's a whole other option in terms of perception and
existence that is free and in alignment with what's happening and would contribute to an
entirely different world um that's it that's it that's all that's all we're saying is that there's

(01:36:34):
an option it's optional it's there and i think that is the point is because religion politics
all of it really depends on us not knowing that it's like no no no no we're the only option
but you're not right and that's the point religion is not the only option when it comes

(01:36:54):
to alignment with the universe belief is not the only option when it comes to discussions about
god or consciousness right there is actually just awareness and questioning and curiosity
and enthusiasm none of which rely on fiction right so there are options and that's what we're
encouraging here and that's what we're going to be encouraging in season two we have some

(01:37:16):
exciting stuff coming up in season two round table discussions which now uh there is a form on our
website anybody who wants to participate in these roundtable discussions go to the website click on
be a guest fill in your information choose the dates that you're available and we will get back
to you about when we want you to be a guest on the show we're going to have maybe four or five people
for every round table discussion and we're going to cover different topics um i know we have one

(01:37:40):
coming up very shortly on expression and art which is going to be a lot of fun i think that's going
to be about midway through january but we'll get back to you with the details as we get a little
closer and i know we're about five minutes from wrapping up here andrews i just want to say thank
you first of all for having this discussion with me for perpetuating this conversation and for just
encouraging just the great insights that we've had throughout all 14 of these episodes we've really

(01:38:05):
covered a lot of ground and i'm just stoked that that you decide to partner with me on this and
that everybody who's listening to this has been so good about contributing questions and then
participating in the discord i've just had so much fun so thank you everyone all right yeah i would
like to echo that as well i as i've said before i'm very appreciative that i'm able to you know

(01:38:26):
express these things with someone and it's it's really fun and i always come into these episodes
with no expectations whatsoever and then all of a sudden two hours later it's like all right we
should probably wrap this up so this doesn't turn into like a four-hour video or something
or a podcast episode or whatever but yeah it's really fun and cool how we're able to you know we

(01:38:47):
are not doing it with expectations we are living our lives going through these experiences week to
week and then we just you know talk about and sometimes we talk about experiences that we've
had we're able to incorporate them fairly seamlessly into the conversations which has
been a lot of fun so i am super excited about what's to come and season two and

(01:39:11):
incorporating more roundtable discussions more you know i'm sure we'll have more live events here and
there free zoom calls we you know we love those i loved the q a episode i listened to that back
you know sporadically throughout this week it was a long one so it took me a little while to get
through all the time stamps but it was really fun to do that and i really just enjoyed chilling out

(01:39:32):
and just like answering questions and then talking about stuff to the best of our abilities and not
necessarily settling on answers but just giving our perspectives of questions that people had
based on our experiences and our interactions with people who have gone through similar
things or whatever it may be um but i think yeah i'm i'm very grateful for this dualistic unity

(01:39:56):
project that we're going through and i think it's been very cool even for myself like if you go back
to the first and second episode of this you can see i think both of our growth but i think i
am starting from a place that is maybe a little bit just newer to these types of discussions than
rey so you can really see like some of the questions i had in the first and second and

(01:40:20):
third episodes i'm now sort of able to like talk about and and more in a way of like i actually
understand it as opposed to when it started out it was like i didn't understand it i kind of could
like see where it was coming from but like really wasn't grasping it and then i kind of like sort of
understood it to a degree but wasn't able to express it in any way and now gotten to a point

(01:40:42):
where i can actually you know have a conversation about it in a way like that's been cool just for
myself to like see myself going through that sort of growth and you know it's always happening to
all of us and so i'm excited for season two to be able to start seeing that with other people
as well because i think this is you know a new conversation for a lot of people and

(01:41:05):
like someone mentioned in one of your comments it's like a language they didn't realize they
were fluent in and i think that's the same way for me i don't know if i would have necessarily
been able to have these conversations you know a year ago but maybe i would have been intrigued by
it and maybe i would have you know my journey would have been a little bit accelerated if i
knew these conversations were happening somewhere but it's cool just you know to be a part of it so

(01:41:31):
i'm i'm very grateful and again i'm excited for what's to come and i'm very happy to be a part of
this wave likewise whatever it is wherever it's going it's cool that we're a part of it yeah and
i'm excited to have more voices involved as well and more conversations and you know i loved our

(01:41:52):
zoom calls that we had our group zoom calls with you know 20 or so people on there the workshops
are always a lot of fun just getting multiple perspectives the q a even having other people just
involved in asking questions like we were able to get through it was what ended up being three
three and a half hours and it didn't feel like that long because we had other perspectives

(01:42:14):
involved it just like went that much quicker if we have you know a group of people we could have
probably like a 10 hour episode i don't know if it will probably at some point but yeah for now
we'll stick we'll try and cap these two hours or so keep it reasonable right so we're not hydrating
throughout the entire episode but uh no this has been great i'm really looking forward to season

(01:42:35):
two and uh happy new year to everyone i know it's completely arbitrary but you know we're going into
2022 by agreement so happy new year everyone and uh we're looking forward to seeing you next year

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