S.1 Ep.2: Psychedelics and our Subjective Reality

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode 2 of
duelist unity with andrew and ray i'm
andrew and that would make me rig
thank you so much for joining uh if
you're on youtube feel free to hit that
subscribe button if you haven't touched
it yet it takes about two seconds and i
don't think you'll want to miss some of
our upcoming episodes i think i don't
think you'll ever want to miss an

(00:20):
episode but
you know that's my
unbiased opinion oh it feels like
forever between recording these episodes
it's like we cover so much ground in a
single hour or in the two hours after
the episode and
then there's a week of just watching it
all play out like the insights that
we've talked about it's like oh there it
is and there it is and oh that's

(00:41):
happening there and so it's so much fun
but by the time i get to about thursday
i'm just itching to have another
conversation because so much has
happened in that span of non-time so
it's gonna it's going to get to the
point where we're gonna start doing two
of these a week at some point i think
i think i think we'll have to it's to me
it's felt like it's been a month since

(01:02):
monday i don't know if it was
you know taking
some mushrooms for the first time ever
uh because that i certainly felt like
things time slowed down a bit like i was
sort of like taking notes on my phone as
i just like have
keep track of like when i started
feeling stuff just because i like doing
that stuff and i knew i was gonna

(01:22):
probably make a video about my
experience so having that for because
there's i know a lot of people that i
think would have a great time with them
and and
not not just a great time but like it
could be super incredibly
beneficial to them in their lives even
doing something like micro dosing
which is i don't know it's just it's
such a bummer that's been so stigmatized

(01:45):
um
but
yeah it's uh it was really cool and this
week yeah it just felt like it was 30
days not seven so i'm with you on i
think we may be forced into doing two of
these a week absolutely well it's funny
somebody somebody asked me on on my tick
tock because i talk about this all the
time obviously and despite having

(02:07):
another job in an industry that has
nothing to do with this conversation or
at least only on a periphery um it's you
know well is this what you want to do
and i have went back and forth with that
for 20 years i went back and forth was
like you know do i want to just apply
this and enjoy my life or do i want to
be out there talking to people watching
them have those aha moments that that

(02:27):
drive me
and
the answer is i just keep getting drawn
back to this regardless of what
direction i choose regardless of what i
get into if i decide oh i'm going to
learn this now or i'm going to take up
this hobby it always ends up coming back
to this when i got into kung fu
my sifu used to find it hilarious
because i would come in to train but i
was also training how i thought so he

(02:49):
would actually tell the other students
like listen to ray he has a very slow
mind and and at first i'm like hey hold
on a minute what does that mean but what
he meant was that he explains it to me
once and then i take it in and i chew on
it and i really do what i can with what
i can comprehend in what was said rather
than just waiting for the next tidbit
and so
yeah everything always comes back to

(03:10):
these lessons for me and so making two
podcasts a week just seems almost like
an inevitability like we're being sucked
into a black hole where it's like you're
going to have this talk because a lot of
people want to have this talk
and they have a lot of people have
responded this week that they've enjoyed
our podcast i'm really looking forward
to
more of the feedback that we're going to
get
definitely and i i don't think there's

(03:30):
ever ever going to be any shortage
of things to talk about like last
episode we named it scratching the
surface and i think it towards the end
of the episode i was like yeah it's you
know we definitely covered a lot but
like there's i could think of off the
top of my head like 100 other things we
could touch on you're like i love to
hear that you think that this is

(03:51):
scratching the surface because we just
got into some serious stuff really
quickly and a lot of different things
and it's just i'm so
[ __ ] grateful that i have these
opportunities to like talk about this
stuff because it's it really is what i
enjoy
doing like i really it's

(04:14):
the tick tock stuff the social media
stuff it's never ever felt like work to
me
in the past year and it's just i i love
it i love interacting with people the
video i posted um
just saying like i basically started out
with so i did a bunch of mushrooms this
weekend and then talked about some
things that i you know had a lot of sort
of realizations that i have had in the

(04:37):
past many times but it was just more
intense
and it's kind of like really stuck with
me
um but on that post i had i think it was
probably like 10 or 15 people who i
mutually follow on tick tock and i don't
follow that many people and there were a
lot just you know commenting like love
to see it blah blah knew you'd love it

(04:58):
like
you know which a lot of them have
probably you know they're in similar
types of discussions as us i'm sure a
lot of them have you know tried them out
and and so it was just cool to see and
just being able to interact with so many
people and connect with so many
different people
not the least of which has been you of
course so yeah
it's awesome it's uh yeah we

(05:21):
we are at the moment our our
conversation around um natural drugs
because we'll stick it to that because
uh synthetics are something else
entirely man-made man-made and altered
drugs or something else but our
conversation around hallucinogens
especially is fairly immature in our
culture despite the fact that
hallucinogens have been a cornerstone of
the growth of our culture for thousands

(05:42):
of years i mean tribal society regularly
used hallucinogens in different types
and and kinds all over the world whether
it be ayahuasca or peyote
or psilocybin mushrooms
they always use those in order to
establish balance or or rather for their
elders to find some degree of clarity
oddly enough so they could guide the

(06:02):
tribe or guide their culture in a way
that was more imbalanced that wasn't
going to have the same consequences and
it's the same thing that happens to us
individually all of a sudden it's like
it's still us i think that's the thing
that a lot of people get afraid of
when they talk about psychedelics is
like oh god i'm going to be a different
person no it's still you
it's just you in a different conscious

(06:22):
environment all of a sudden the reality
you're experiencing has changed and
everything that you're experiencing
within it is unfamiliar to you and so
you're still the same
and that's the lesson in that experience
is that you can be completely uncertain
and so long as you can relax into
yourself
you're gonna be just fine and that's

(06:44):
that's the psychedelic lesson in a
nutshell
yeah certainly yeah it's it's i've
just on that statement there just like a
bunch of thoughts because i've had
people you know obviously i posted on my
social media that i
tried some drugs and there's a lot of
people who are not familiar with i had a
lot of decent not a ton but you know

(07:05):
decent amount of
people closer to me i'll leave it at
that saying like hey man just be careful
blah blah blah and i'm like
you've definitely never tried
mushrooms because you just have an idea
of what they are and you've never
actually experienced them because
especially with something like micro
dosing you don't experience so so what

(07:25):
i've done so far
i had something else i was gonna say
about that oh with the uh
being a different person like experience
they're afraid they're gonna be a
different person and
in
one of the main things i realized was it
sort of like it doesn't add
to you like add extra stuff it more so

(07:46):
strips things away and strips away
the baggage past
drama whatever so you're actually able
to see things and there's no difference
i didn't even take enough to hallucinate
yet but
i didn't notice
there wasn't anything more that was
there i just noticed more because there

(08:06):
wasn't so much fog
taking away from the present and what i
was aware of so i was just aware of so
much more and everything was just like
so much more
bright and beautiful and i was walking
around i just walked around new york
city for like three hours on it and it
was it's one of my favorite things to do
just ever in life and doing it

(08:29):
on some mushrooms was absolutely
incredible yeah it's like everything it
cuts your strings
yeah it's like i know i'm usually
thinking something what is it i'm
usually thinking and it's just not there
and yeah even since then so i took
on friday i took up i got up to 600
milligrams i didn't take it all at once

(08:50):
so it probably had you know less of a
super intense effect but it was still
like
it wasn't really much different than
i've been feeling the last few months it
was just more intense just less internal
noise more external awareness and then
saturday morning
i was like you know let's let's ramp
this up a little bit so i took 1.4 grams

(09:11):
and then
uh an hour and a half later 90 minutes
later took the 0.4 grams is i think you
call it the the kicker um and that was
that was awesome there was like a few
seconds i remember on the come up that i
started to feel a little bit like i
think probably losing that control
and i told i just like immediately was

(09:32):
like it's okay it's okay to feel this
and it passed for me very quickly i
think that could be a point where
someone like starts to you know resist
what they're feeling and lead to like
you know bad trip maybe um and then yeah
then i just walked around new york and
it was it was awesome and then sunday i
didn't take anything but i still i
texted you i was walking around i'm like

(09:54):
honestly i still kind of feel like i'm
on shrooms a little bit like i'm aware
of so much more and like i'm not and
then
uh this morning
because i was talking to a few people
close to me about potentially micro
dosing so i wanted to give that a shot
so i took just 200
um this morning just like see what that
was like and it was pretty much like how
i felt sunday just like maybe a little

(10:16):
tiny bit stronger but it's just there's
no like
crazy trippy drug feeling at all it's
just you're more present you're more
aware your mind quiets you're less
self-conscious
it's like all these amazing things
and like no
there's no come down there's no like
anything uncomfortability whatsoever

(10:37):
um so yeah that's basically my
experience in a nutshell i had a ton of
thoughts that i just like questioning
everything i was like at a stoplight and
it was a stop but there were no cars
coming and i was like
i can just
i can just go
like
that's made up that's just completely
made up just to make it's literally just

(10:58):
to make things easier
for people to function like it would be
kind of a pain if there were cars
driving there's nothing stopping and
you'd just be kind of like
going shooting it and like that's an
interesting point because what would be
the alternative everybody would have to
be considerate and aware
right and so our society is is a

(11:19):
structure of crutches to stop us from
having to be considerate and aware all
the time we just make rules so we don't
have to it's like no no there's there
are laws telling you not to do that
whether you recognize not to do that or
not is irrelevant it's like no but
that's how a society crumbles
right it's like i'm not going to do that
because it's against the law as opposed

(11:40):
to i'm not going to do that because it
might cause someone harm
or because you know i don't really need
to do it it's just an egotistical want
that i'm doing anyway we always focus on
the structure taking responsibility for
the participants and that's why we end
up with an irresponsible society
wow wow yeah i did not think of that

(12:00):
side of it makes so much sense and it's
almost like
you know it breeds this society of like
robotic type people wanting more needing
more and unaware
and not needing to be that's right so
aware that's right and better yet here
we've got technology we'll make it so

(12:21):
you can be as comfortable as possible
while you're not aware
yeah like uh what movie is it uh wall-e
is that when they show all the people
like sitting in there sitting back here
with their massive like coca-cola and
fast food and just like tv in front of
them and they're just like basically

(12:41):
zombies and it's like that is that is
peak comfort you know it's like there's
nothing you ever no discomfort
whatsoever
and it it
creates this
the most
i don't know i i want to use
uncomfortable that that would seems
extremely uncomfortable to me so it's
like
his ultimate comfort

(13:02):
in
theory sounds amazing but in reality
that sounds not so much
because it's an insidious kind of of
consequence right it it settles in over
time and by the time you've realized
there's a consequence you're almost too
far along to do anything about it right
like that's often the problem with um
addiction to to certain substances is

(13:24):
that when you don't deal with why you're
addicted when you don't deal with the
unhappiness or the lack that's that the
addiction is stemming from that you're
trying to escape then even if you were
to kick that addiction if you were even
if you were to quit drinking you may
find yourself in another addiction such
as you know focusing on buying things
all the time or focusing on judging
other people these are all addictions

(13:44):
these are all ways of dealing with their
own sense of lack these are all ways out
of responsibility for our current state
of mind so long as we can put it on
something else so long as we can either
pass the buck or or blam someone then
that's that's what we tend to do because
we have no guidance telling us not to
right like for the most part we're just
raised like just pass the test and get
the job and then you'll get what you

(14:05):
want and that's that's the end all and
be all of everything and it's like well
hold on what about me as a person as i'm
going through that like here i am
thinking i'm never going to pass this
test it's going to be the end of my life
and nobody's coming along and saying
actually that response is merely because
you're looking at this in a certain way
and you're looking at yourself in a
certain way nothing's that serious
we don't get any self-knowledge it's
always just about going through the

(14:26):
motions and that is not something that
encourages awareness
yeah yeah and i think when it comes to
society it was something that i was
have been questioning for
a while even like a couple years to a
degree more intensely the last few
months and then you know
doing some uh some psychedelics just

(14:50):
blows that
out of the water like what the [ __ ] is
society it's like it's all made up it's
literally all made up and yet people you
know
make
they think
they think it's like okay and they
justify it because it's like oh well
wouldn't be able to function without it
and it's like
well

(15:10):
maybe it would and i like we did the
idea with yeah it's it's like it doesn't
make any sense to me why mushrooms are
illegal but at the same time it makes a
ton of sense given the state of how
things are right now and the need for
people to want more that's how you know
everything keeps on
churning and it's like so it makes

(15:33):
perfect sense why they're illegal
because if everyone
stopped but it's not like from a harmful
sense it's from the the machine needs to
keep on running
and this might
stop that machine and start a new one if
ever if we
dropped a little bit in the water or
something and that's the point right
under these substances you suddenly gain

(15:54):
a sense of clarity and you start going
wait a minute and you start looking
around and you realize again that all
the patterns you've been going through
are patterns and that they become
familiar and that it's all you've you've
been taught and so it's all you know and
you start to think outside the box and
that's very much why those those are
illegal that's exactly it i wanted to
cover this quickly because i did have

(16:14):
somebody uh comment
recently that
do i believe psychedelics are necessary
to waking up
and i just wanted to comment on this
quickly because the experience that you
had is common when people do experience
or when they experiment with
psychedelics particularly psilocybin
mushrooms they tend to have a profound
experience they have an insight but

(16:36):
in that they tend to pass the insight
off
to the to the substance oh i was just
tripping or i was just it was just the
drugs and they failed to remember no it
was you doing the work within that it
just again changed the conscious
environment i like to look at it as you
know if you were to imagine your ego or
all the thoughts you tell yourself about
yourself in the world each one being a

(16:58):
layer or or a weight
we're always having all these weights
piled on top of ourselves well all of a
sudden when you're on psychedelics or
when you're in extremely clear mind
it's like those weights become feathers
all of a sudden your perception of the
weight just changes entirely and you
stand up like it was never a thing
because the weight was all dependent on

(17:18):
how much commitment you put into it and
so
psychedelics can show you the door to
that but they can't teach you to do it
you have to do it yourself you actually
have to have the will to do it because
if you don't even in psychedelics it
doesn't necessarily mean you're going to
have a profound trip you could just sit
there giggling
yeah certainly and i was thinking yeah
that layers the layers and algae i think

(17:40):
it was perfect i was thinking of it like
a sort of like a fog too like if you're
here like you're my fist and there's
this fog around you and as you grow up
it gets thicker and thicker and thicker
and thicker and then doing something and
like i started to have a lot of the
things you know we connected before i
ever i did psychedelics for the first
time this past weekend like if you watch

(18:01):
all my videos like i was talking about
the same stuff before it it's just it's
more
of
an outside the box and i think when it
comes to you know the layers or the fog
like as you get older the fog just gets
thicker and thicker and thicker and
thicker until you are so
concrete in
your
beliefs you don't even know there's a
fog and it's so thick that you can't

(18:24):
change you're not going to change
anything and all this does is clear that
it just clears it you're still the same
nothing changes whatsoever about you all
it does is strips it away
clears away the fog and it allows you
instead of
the energy that you have or the
awareness or whatever getting sucked
into the fog so maybe you only have like
10

(18:45):
energy or awareness all of a sudden you
have like 50 or 90 or whatever and then
you're able
to have these insights and it sort of
takes away like if the fog could be
related to you know self uh
self uh
being self conscious too and like just
being so aware

(19:06):
of your separation and almost like
like takes that down a notch so you
don't feel so
separate either and you feel and i've
started feeling very connected like a
few months ago but like this was just
yeah just a more intense level and it
really wasn't that much different than i
was feeling before it was like very

(19:27):
similar but if i was you know like
20 it just pushed me to like 30 or 40
percent something like that as opposed
to being like a totally like parallel
experience or whatever some other
experiences same thing i've been feeling
just
more intensely well there's a lot of
research that's going into it right now
there's a there's a research lab here in

(19:47):
the in the town that i live in the city
that i live in that's doing research
into psilocybin mushrooms and their
potential use in treating depression
anxiety substance abuse i mean uh gaber
mady dr d gay remedy was doing research
in using ayahuasca to treat heroin
addicts and i think there was like an 80
to 185 percent success rate in dropping

(20:10):
heroin addiction through a psilocybin
experience or through an ayahuasca
experience because
your default mode the the thoughts that
you're used to thinking get completely
reset
in a psychedelic experience and so
you come out of it and it's like you
have a new lease on life it's like
you've just you've dropped your load
behind you somewhere and you're like yes
i'm good to go and habitually you will

(20:32):
start to pick up that load again
which is why a lot of times when people
do have their first awakening on
psychedelics they get a an ego out of it
they have a moment of awakening and
they're like yes i've seen the universe
and then they come out of it and all of
their old patterns of
identification and comparison come back
in without them noticing it so now
they're like a master of the universe

(20:53):
but compared to everyone else
right so it just kind of it it seeps in
over time so it's not again it's not the
psychedelics that will do it for you but
psychedelics will definitely give you
that leg up if you are entrenched in
vines if you are you know ensnared in
habitual patterns and thoughts and
identity and you know especially the
older you get this is where they're
really seeing

(21:14):
the benefits of micro dosing and
alternatives to traditional
pharmaceuticals because there is a lot
to be said for altered states of
consciousness
yeah certainly and i have you know the
way you're describing this with like you
know caught in the vines or a lot of fog
or a lot of layers like i have some
people i'm not gonna obviously name any

(21:35):
names or anything but some people close
to me who
could really i think really really
benefit and some of them have you know
commented like you know
i prefer if you didn't share things
online blah blah and i'm like share
things hold on i'm about to try and
convince you to do these you're trying
to tell me like
not to be careful whatever like give me

(21:58):
a couple months you're going to be doing
them too
absolutely
and it's it's just yeah because i i've
seen people
who uh
who uh go through and and they go
through the paths of like you know the
professional
uh
experience like antidepressant related
things and it's like i don't know it

(22:18):
seems like i don't know from the
research i've done and all the stuff
i've been watching especially the last
few weeks like it seems like that's more
of
a band-aid it sort of
suppresses the emotions to a degree as
opposed to doing anything
you know at the root
yeah well and and from my experience and
i should i'll say straight up i'm not a
medical professional this is not medical

(22:39):
advice don't listen to me this is just
my own experience um when i was in the
thick
of of my own personal health
i was on antidepressants and
antipsychotics and i was heavily
medicated
for years and
all it did was allow me to continue
going through my day-to-day life

(22:59):
but being more numb like i i wasn't i
wasn't getting the ups and downs as much
as the peaks weren't there but on the
other hand i didn't feel anything like
it
people would express something to me and
i would say the appropriate response
knowing it was the appropriate response
but never feeling it in myself like
somebody uh when i was in on

(23:20):
antidepressants a friend of mine had
committed suicide and i was consoling
his girlfriend at the time i'm like i'm
sorry we're all going to miss him and
you know it's a terrible thing i didn't
feel a thing
and when i left her company that day i
felt like a bag of [ __ ] because i i
could recognize in myself i wasn't
feeling any any of it it was just it was

(23:42):
all lip service it was all a show and
while i wasn't getting depressed and i
wasn't you know in
self-loathing
it would almost be preferable it's like
the difference between um feeling and
being numb right in general it's like
yeah when you're feeling you can get
hurt but you can also feel joy
right

(24:02):
when you're numb you're not in danger
but there's nothing to live for and so
in for me after going up and down on
that loop forever
um
i finally just took my medication and
threw it in the dumpster behind my
apartment and walked away
and that was rough that was one of the
roughest experience i've ever been
through because the next six months was

(24:23):
all of my old habits coming back full
force because i had been avoiding them
and so they were almost worse it was
like a screaming demon horde had just
come to my door and said hey forget
about us and i had to deal with it
because i had been just muffling them
bam
yeah i'm curious so
a thought came up when you were
explaining and like talking about

(24:44):
consoling your um friend's girlfriend
after that happened and
i meant to ask you this i think last
time because you say you know you're not
you don't fear death whatsoever the
death of rey does not concern you at all
what about
what about others you know if that
situation were to happen again
for others is there other you know but

(25:06):
if that were to happen again like
would you feel
now yeah for sure
absolutely um and and i know that
because uh last year um my my cat of 18
years passed on um and two years before
that my other cat of 18 years passed on
and the year before that my dog 12 years
passed on so in those you know four

(25:26):
years and i think there was a year break
in between it was just one thing after
another one loss after another and so
each and every time i had to come back
to okay you know put your money where
your mouth is kind of thing like you
know we're talking about death it and i
and of course being raised christian i
had all kinds of habitual perspectives
of death that were still coming up

(25:46):
and so it really gave me the opportunity
to look at it straight in the face and i
made a tick tock um about this last year
as i was going through it and then about
a week after and
grieving is such an interesting process
because it really is just the process of
accepting what is
and
grieving is almost like

(26:07):
we would prefer to focus on hurting
ourselves we would prefer to focus on
regret we would prefer to focus on the
loss
and how that feels than to accept that
this is now the way things are
that these people are gone
regardless of how we might want them to
be here and so
it was turning that loss into again it

(26:29):
was looking at the hole that was created
in my life and the beautiful way that
that whole had been formed to begin with
and so it's again it's just looking past
the character that we were attached to
realizing that the person that we were
attached to the person that we loved was
never really the person that we loved
they were the awareness that was shining
through that person through that

(26:50):
person's experiences through their
opinions through their their little
habits and and whatever they picked up
along the way but it was their inner
awareness that was shining through their
soul as people would call it
and that's what we loved because when we
look at the people we love we can see
that they have their own heartache we
can see that they have their own [ __ ]
that they're facing we can see that
they've had their own journey and things
that they'd prefer not to go through

(27:12):
so looking through all that we see who
they are and that's who we love and so
once they've passed on remembering they
weren't the character means that they're
in everybody else they're always here
they're us we're literally continuing on
as them and they have changed us in
every moment they've been with us
there's literally no division between
them and us so we are continuing on as

(27:33):
them we have been changed as a result
and we will continue to change because
there's no division as you said if we
stopped identifying we'd all be one
certainly yeah the way
you uh
said that in the sense of like instead
of it thinking of it as like a negative
a loss whatever think of it you know
it's positive like the opportunity and

(27:54):
all of that and i thought like
um my our dog our family dog passed away
three years ago and she was 14 at the
time so like you can't really get much
more as a dog and that was that was sort
of like where my head was at with it it
was like
what is like it is very sad we all like
she had to be put down she was got very

(28:14):
sick like she was pretty sick for a few
months but then like happened pretty
quickly and we sort of realized sort of
throwing up a bunch we were like she's
suffering quite a bit um so it was very
sad that day and the following days it
was like
after that i was like what's the
alternative here the alternative is she
could have gotten
picked up by a family that didn't love

(28:35):
her as much as we did by an abusive
family by anything like she
got the best life she probably could
have and what what more what do i want
her to live to be like 25 like you just
that's not how long dogs live for so
who's it about at that point right
exactly yeah and

(28:55):
you know she began to get sick and
she passed on and you know so it was
like what's what's the alternative there
or you know i really
it's it's always sad like i have one
grandparent left and i'll be extremely
extremely sad when
she passes away but especially when when

(29:16):
it's like older
people or if i hear of someone else's
grandparent who's like 98
and they're like i'm like that's of
course it's sad but it's like what
what more could you
what what are you gonna try to live that
120 like right you just can't that's not
it's not really
at all tragic because it's like that's

(29:38):
the way it is that's how long humans
live for pretty much that's about the
max things
but we get so caught up in in the
division because our culture is very
much ego egocentric like we're we're so
focused on the individual perspective
that that we're all individuals and our
our awareness comes from this meaty bit

(29:59):
that's inside our skull um that
the idea of death is terrifying because
of that and i mean the rise of
christianity didn't help with that at
all um because right with the afterlife
and then that whole thing and you know
we're all individual souls and god's
going to judge you and so we made death
into this really weird thing but at the
end of the day
you know we we don't die any more than

(30:21):
the tree dies when a leaf falls off
right like that that's the whole thing
the leaf goes to the ground the ground
absorbs the leaf the ground feeds the
roots and the tree continues to grow and
and so everything is is cyclical and in
this story in this lifetime i'm going to
make an impact on whoever it is i talk
to and they're going to continue to do
the same so

(30:43):
me holding on to the idea that i'm this
body
that's on me if i'm going to hold on to
that i'm going to experience the fear
that goes with that i'm going to hold on
to that i'm going to experience you know
the the tension that goes with letting
that go and i'm going to reinforce to
everybody how important i am
like protect me
right but um
that that's a big part of it is because
we don't recognize that

(31:04):
we aren't separate that death is so
goddamn scary
yeah so with
it's with something like
you know disease and whatnot
what i'm curious your take on disease
and like the level to which
we should try to go
to

(31:25):
stop it if it is all
happenings and if we were you know i'm
starting more and more to think of us
just like equivalent to nature and this
weekend when i was walking around i was
seeing
people were no different than trees were
no different than the water like i
wasn't i think i texted you this i
wasn't looking at like the five six feet

(31:46):
height i was looking a little bit higher
and like
from a
pulled back view a little bit so it was
like i was seeing
humans as nature not as individual
stories and it was like all these things
were were happening and i was aware
of them but the the trees and the humans

(32:07):
were not
different and and seeing things as and
seeing us as
nature not separate from it and i think
you know christianity has done a really
good job of
absolutely creating that sort of feeling
of separation so when it comes so back
to my question i guess when it comes to
something like disease like
to what level do we go to try to prevent

(32:28):
it or stop it
that's a good question and ultimately
it's going to be dependent on the person
because
see it's not a con as with everything
it's not uh it's not a
decision we can make for others
right and so we have to address the the
common mentality we have to address the
collective mentality which is the
collective mentality regarding death but

(32:51):
most of our our medical science or most
of our our policies regarding death are
the result of how we individually view
death and so the more people who are
terrified of death because they see
themselves as an individual body they're
going to invest in ways to keep that
body alive they're going to invest in
structures that have the same mentality
and that's what's grown over time and so
now even if you're 98 years old you've

(33:12):
lived a good life everything's failing
we're still going to put you on life
support to try and keep you alive as
long as possible because you're afraid
and i think that if we were less afraid
if we had a different common mentality
if we had a different collective
conversation about this that people
would start to say
you know what i'm 65 years old rather
than getting that quadruple bypass

(33:34):
for the thing or heart surgery for the
third time i'm just gonna let this
incarnation go and continue on as my
grandkids
and and
we would have that clarity if our
collective discussion was different and
it went on for long enough
but as of right now we're still so over
committed to the idea of individuality
that we can't have this conversation

(33:55):
like you can't go to somebody and say
you know when you die it's not really
going to be that bad they're going to
say well you know you have no idea how
much i've saved you have no idea how
much i've invested in this life and to
them it's important
and until they change that commitment to
that importance
this conversation won't change we'll
just continue going towards you know
bionic people because that's exactly the

(34:15):
direction that we're going in right now
it's like you know what can we replace
with something we can make and continue
to replace so you can live forever and
it's like but why would you want to is
the big question alan watts talked about
this too it's like you know when when we
were about 100 years ago or more human
lifespan was like 30 to 60 years
maybe
right but in those 30 to 60 years you

(34:38):
lived right you you actually went out
and faced stuff and and you you had
discomfort and you had a personal
journey and you had all this stuff and
so your life was vibrant it wasn't just
get up go to work come home watch tv go
to sleep get up go to work and continue
on it was very different there was more
involved with it and so
quality of life and length of life are
two different conversations

(35:00):
yeah more the uh the life in your years
than the years in your life sort of
thing i'm there right yeah wow
yeah it's uh
i i i think we're yeah extremely far
from any sort of
discussion like that and
i wonder you know and and i do because

(35:20):
so it seems to me
and this is this is just from me being
old and watching this perspective for a
while that this conversation is becoming
easier to have with more people and it's
not that the conversation is necessarily
just becoming easier to have it's not
just it's easier to go hey let's talk
about what alan watts said 50 years ago
or hey let's talk about krishnamurti or

(35:41):
hey let's talk about buddha
it's people
your age who are coming up with entirely
new ways to look at old insights people
who are coming up with different ways to
have this discussion and they're having
insights that are distilling
old conversations down to new ones very
much like what we're doing here right
we're we're talking about old insights
we're talking about religion we're

(36:02):
talking about psychedelics we're talking
about all this but we're putting it into
a way that's relevant to our current
time period we're putting it into ways
that are relevant to our current way of
life and that is happening a lot and so
i think to some degree it's exponential
growth i think that as these
conversations continue to get more and
more on point they get less and less
fluffy i guess is what i'm really trying
to say

(36:23):
because fluff scares away your serious
seekers right um
it draws in more people
it draws in more people the more
interested you are in this not to feel
better but because it's like wow this is
just this is crazy cool you guys have to
listen to this the more people start to
go okay what are you talking about and
they start to listen and then they get
interested and i think enthusiasm is the

(36:44):
big key here enthusiasm is infectious if
we can get people enthusiastic about the
conversation the same way we are which
is just about being enthusiastic it's
not about trying to get them anywhere
then it's going to spread like wildfire
and it's going to spread faster and
faster and faster so i don't know how
far this this changes i don't know how
far in the future this is it could be

(37:05):
next year i that's the wonderful thing
about uncertainty right the world could
change overnight
certainly i think with a lot of these
things too because i know you get a lot
of backlash with your stances on
religions and everyone's like just let
me believe what i believe and blah blah
and it's like
or like you know not having a belief is

(37:26):
a belief and stuff like that i get that
a lot too and it's like
i'm not saying like i don't
i'm pretty much at a point that i don't
believe anything like
and
and that's not
that's not a belief like
yeah like it's interesting that everyone
wants to like
it's because of the way everything is we

(37:49):
want to
categorize everything in that way like
there's so many religions out there that
were just created that like oh if you
think this way or do this it's like
because of this religion it's like no
religion is not necessary and it's all
made up like it's all [ __ ] made up
and no one like it's not

(38:11):
the truth and people like
uh it's so
uh it's like kind of frustrating but at
the same time like it is what it is
and it's everyone's just so caught up in
what
what do you believe in like well
i i don't believe in anything i don't

(38:31):
believe like do i have to like whoever
said that but that makes me very
uncomfortable
yeah that's that's what it is and i get
the same responses and it's funny
because that's the work
that's the work because having the
insight is one thing and then going out
into the world and seeing
everybody else who doesn't want to see
that insight that's the work it's like

(38:53):
the old expression if you think you're
enlightened go talk to your parents
right because they'll push all your
buttons and and so when you go out into
the world you're like i don't believe
anything and somebody's like well that's
a belief
you have to turn through that you're
like okay hold on is it and and if
you're honest about it you will actually
take the moment to go is it and you'll
look because that's that's part of the
process of growing right instead of no

(39:14):
it's not right
and so that's the work is looking at
what your reaction is and so after
enough time now my response when i'm
like you know i don't believe anything
and they're like well that's a belief
and then my only response is i'm sure it
would be uncomfortable for you to see it
otherwise
because the alternative is that you'd
have to accept there's another way of
living

(39:35):
and that's often what people don't want
to hear they don't want to to even
entertain the idea
that what you're saying is possible that
you can live without constant
self-analysis that you can live without
fear of death that you can live without
belief in a fiction
because that's what they hold on to to
keep them safe and secure
in a world of uncertainty that's what

(39:56):
they hold on to to establish their sense
of value through comparison and
assumption there is so much invested
in that that that game of pretend
that you even going over and saying you
know we don't have to play pretend he's
a threat
yeah i'm hoping we get to a point that
we don't have to play so much pretend

(40:19):
because
it's just it's it's wild and there's so
many i mean people will say like oh not
believing in something is a belief and
i'm like or like how do you know
anything you say is right and i'm like
well i don't but it's not
that
i think
anything i think is right it's like
at our baseline right now in society

(40:40):
there are like
hundreds of beliefs and assumptions and
all these things that people are tied to
all i'm saying and it seems like all
you're saying is like let's strip some
of those down a little bit it's not
about adding anything to that it's about
peeling them back like clearing out the
fog it's it's that's it it's not
addition

(41:01):
of anything it's just
subtraction because we're at a baseline
by the time you're 20 that you have
probably hundreds of thousands of
beliefs and assumptions about everything
and all i'm saying is
take some time to question it
ask some questions just figure out why
why do you believe that let's stop

(41:22):
settling on an answer
yeah there you go right that's it it's
always let's just continue questioning
and
that offends people and i love
that particular part of offending people
because they don't have to be offended
they're they're not offended because i'm
trying to be offensive they're offended
because they don't want to question
that's the simplest way to put it and

(41:44):
and
they get more offended when you mention
that that's why they're offended which
is also kind of fun in its own way right
but
it's
it is the way to perpetuate the
conversation and it's like i said before
like the the old expression is you don't
talk about politics or religion in
pleasant company it's like well that's a
great way for nobody to grow

(42:05):
for us to just stay
stagnant and not in any way challenge
one another and so
questioning even though it's going to
rock people's boats
is going to make them question almost
out of necessity because of the
discomfort so rocking boats is something
that's necessary and unfortunately the
spiritual crowd has decided to a large
degree not everybody

(42:26):
that we don't rock boats because that's
unpleasant and that's not what what a
unitary consciousness would do it's like
that is what a unitary consciousness
would do look at your body whenever it
has an infection your body goes ape [ __ ]
trying to get rid of that infection you
know so there's some disturbance there
right so that's that's very much the
point is that when you get past the

(42:47):
belief and you get past the need for
stability and security you come to terms
with what is and what is
is always changing right you can't just
abide by the ten commandments because
maybe that's not what needs to be done
right now and the only way you'll know
is to allow yourself to be here right
now
yeah
yeah i mean that

(43:07):
just that idea of being
here and being now is that's
knocked me this weekend my experiences
knocked me into that and it's
stuck with me and
one of the biggest things is just my
mind
settling and quieting it has been a lot
quieter the last few days and it's

(43:30):
amazing it's
absolutely incredible and i know a lot
of people who have very
noisy minds that could
derive a lot of benefit from it because
that's all
you know that's all the fog that's all
the baggage and it doesn't have to be
you don't have to always be
thinking and worrying and
wondering and preparing and like you

(43:52):
just you don't and it's that's not how
we were
made to be it's how we've
developed and
you know transformed and and we have all
these external
factors leading to
feelings like that and it just doesn't
have to be and and you don't
need that much like it can be cool to

(44:15):
you know i was sitting and i watched a
pond of ducks for like a good 15 minutes
and it was amazing yesterday and
like there's so many things that you you
just don't need to be
doing and wanting more and i sound like
i feel like i sound like a hippie but
it's like
[Music]

(44:37):
yeah feel more like one a drug druggy
hippie
right it's funny i'll take that i'll
wear that one
let's just put them down so we don't
have to pay attention to them right yeah
exactly but they they had a valid point
and and
it's just that
the the habit the habitual thought the
the habitual identification

(44:59):
is
it's not that it ever goes away i made
the point once that if if you use a
windows pc and you hit control alt
delete it shows you all the background
processes that are happening on your
computer right all the time even if
you're not touching your computer
there's just like 100 things happening
in the background well it's kind of like
our brain right our brain is always
processing context it's always

(45:20):
processing what it knows conceptually
and superficially and so we almost tune
into that process and we get so caught
up in it that we start thinking that
every thought that's being processed is
relevant to us individually and so we
pay attention to them and that's what
becomes the noise it's like the more we
commit to them being the truth the more
we hear our thoughts and so all of a

(45:42):
sudden as you start to go oh it's just
background stuff i don't need to watch
that it's still going to do its own
thing all of a sudden it's like they
start to fall away almost like um in a
bar when you start to tune out the
background music
right and you're focused on the
conversation at hand so people will say
how do i stop my thoughts it's like well
you can't because your brain is doing
its own thing that that's not the

(46:03):
problem the problem is is how how
involved you are with them how much
you're trying to micromanage everyone
that goes across your consciousness
instead of just letting it go by and
continue the process that it was doing
without your interference
yeah it's almost it's like realizing
that that's the case that that is the
process is extremely helpful and i had

(46:25):
right before i had sort of like the
insight that i'm not andrew back in july
i had a week that i was just like very
much caught up in my thoughts and
it was like on youtube looking up like
how to
quiet overthinking quiet the mind like
going back to my old tic tocs like
watching my own [ __ ] like i gotta

(46:45):
remember some of this stuff now
and i got to a point and i don't think i
saw any videos about it but because
there were so many about like how to
stop overthinking how to quiet your mind
whatever and i realized i didn't want to
stop over thinking i wanted to stop
thinking certain thoughts it wasn't like
there's this blanket statement of like

(47:06):
i'm an overthinker and it's like no no
you think certain thoughts and you
identify with those thoughts thoughts
are always happening everyone's thinking
a different [ __ ] all the time it's it's
that it gets placed in a negative light
when there's certain thoughts we don't
want to be thinking so we try to get rid
of them and through trying to suppress
them and get rid of them we're giving

(47:26):
them so much attention we are resisting
them what you resist persists typically
and so it stays there and you don't
realize that it's a process that's
always churning like clouds passing by
or dogs walking
through in a park and those thoughts are
just the dogs just they're just running
by they're not like coming up and

(47:47):
licking you unless you don't want them
to then they're gonna come up and give
you a lot of attention but if you
realize that they're just running by
you can allow them
to keep running
and then all of a sudden other thoughts
are popping up but those ones that you
thought you were overthinking or just
the thoughts you didn't want to be
having all of a sudden those keep

(48:09):
passing and since then
those same sorts of thoughts that i was
kind of caught up in that week have come
up and they pass very quickly and i
don't get like you know tensed up like
oh [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] i don't want to be
thinking this
it's like oh there it is and and there
it goes and and i bring my awareness to
usually for me bring my awareness to

(48:30):
the now like smelling things listening
has helped a lot just like listening to
what's around me
it's hard to like be lost in thought
when you're super aware of sounds around
you so that's helped too
um but yeah i think with overthinking
it's it's not that you want to stop
overthinking you just want to stop
thinking certain thoughts that
realization helped a ton it's

(48:51):
interesting because you mentioned
anxiety and i just want to mention that
we do have a workshop coming up on
social anxiety on october 19th
for anybody who's interested the link is
is in my bio or of course you'll find
more information on social media but
anxiety is another one of those things
where
the the harder we try to get away from
it
the worse it gets
because we experience anxiety and it

(49:13):
sucks and then we become anxious about
experiencing anxiety
so now all of a sudden it's a downward
spiral and i found one of the easiest
ways or or one of the most helpful ways
that i i found of getting out of my old
anxiety problems and it was bad i was i
used to get heart pains i used to like i
would throw up i would pass out it was
really really bad
and it was just remembering right

(49:35):
i've done this before it's gonna pass
i'm gonna get through
i'm stronger than this and as soon as i
could stop being afraid of my anxiety
then it became easier to get through my
anxiety so then it became right these
are just thoughts so it was the same
process but now it was a layer deeper
after what was causing the anxiety and

(49:56):
so it's always about
almost doing the counter-intuitive thing
right like it's like oh i'm anxious i
got to run away from it it's like no you
got to face it you know it's like oh i'm
depressed i need to escape this feeling
it's like actually you need to sit in it
and decide that you're going to do what
you can with it and that's when it
changes
right you can't escape depression to

(50:16):
fight happiness and then depression goes
away because that just makes depression
deeper
yeah and i think with all those things
you just mentioned anxiety depression
nerves there's been this negative stigma
placed on them so now everyone has in
their default that it's bad to feel them
and so when we feel them we try to get

(50:36):
rid of them and i posted a video a few
days ago about you know if you start
feeling nervous you have a presentation
coming up you're about to read in class
and you get like you know that lump in
your throat where you're like oh [ __ ] is
my voice going to sound weird or like
your heart starts racing and i used to
get that all the time like i still do
sometimes and it's like instead of

(50:58):
trying to get rid of that feeling and
hating that feeling and thinking i
shouldn't be feeling this way like you
know this isn't a big deal i shouldn't
be nervous it's like i'm nervous
that's okay
it's normal i'm gonna do this anyway
and i'm gonna be fine and it's not
that
the nerves or the anxiety or whatever is

(51:20):
bad but we think it's bad and i
i posted a video a while ago like seven
or eight months ago and i started it
with like that was when i used to start
every video with what have i told you
and it was what if i told you that
anxiety isn't bad
and a lot of people took that the wrong
way
and it got stitched maybe like i don't

(51:41):
know thousands of times like oh you
think anxiety is not bad like i'll tell
that to my zoloft over there or
something and i was like i i didn't mean
it like that i meant like you don't have
to think of it as bad it's okay to feel
it once you realize that it's not an
objectively bad thing like you said you

(52:01):
can allow it to be there realize that
you'll be okay it's just a feeling and
usually the only reason we think of it
as negative is because we have these
thoughts attached to it it's just a
feeling everyone says you know it's
similar to excitement but it's just the
thoughts that you have about it makes
you think that it's anxiety or nerves
when really it's it's the same if you

(52:22):
were you know about to get on a roller
coaster you're super excited for that's
the same thing you're just excited
you're just happy about it and looking
forward to it as opposed to afraid of it
that's so interesting and i'm just going
to try and get this out because it's
kind of been going through my my
awareness for the last couple of days
and it hasn't it's one of those thoughts
where it's like this might end up on

(52:43):
tick tock but i'm not entirely sure but
anxiety
is so interesting because
anxiety gets out of hand
the more we try to avoid it but where
did that where does the anxiety come
from and i was it was i was thinking
about because i have some some smaller
kids who live on the street that i live
on when we're young when we're very
young and we first start and start
learning to run do you remember that

(53:05):
feeling when you're getting so much
speed running you're so focused on where
you're running to that you fall and you
trip and you scrape your knees to scrape
knee lesson right
well all of a sudden next time we're
running and we can feel ourselves
getting out of control we're going too
fast or we're too focused down the road
we start to feel some apprehension
shortly after that because we scraped
our knee we remember doing that and so

(53:26):
we slow down and we try and focus on the
step that we're on
so physically that makes sense but
psychologically we don't do the same
thing we focus on the end results we
focus on how fast we can get there and
then we start to feel anxiety and we
don't realize it's the same damn lesson
as the scraped knee it's because we're
too focused on the end result we're not

(53:47):
focused on the step we're on we have a
feeling like we're going to stumble and
trip
and so instead of just slowing down
and breathing taking the cue that
anxiety is giving us to come closer to
the present
we just push right past it we're like no
no i just need more control no no i need
to focus on the end result more and so
we ignore the scraped knee lesson that

(54:08):
was one of our first ones
yeah i like that a lot and i i can
think of times in my life where like i i
would have a presentation or something
and it's like way down the road i
haven't even you know picked a topic for
it or started preparing for it and i'm
already nervous and it's like i don't
even know what i'm going to talk about

(54:28):
and i'm nervous of the idea of it
focused on that end result focused on
the outcome and
the idea of i like that a lot because
it's the idea that you're not
actually nervous about the event you're
nervous about the outcome and you're
nervous about if you you're not nervous

(54:49):
about the speech you can give a speech
in your mirror right now and you'd be
chilling you might not do amazing or
like amazing whatever that even means
but you can do it you wouldn't feel any
nervousness you're you're focused on the
outcome you're focused on what if i give
a speech and people don't like it or
what if i give a speech and people judge
me that's you're not even focused on the

(55:09):
speech you're focused on the reaction
the outcome
everything happening after so you're not
even
nervous about the event and you don't
even know you know
you don't know what's best either so you
don't even know what a good
outcome is messing up could be a real
lead to a really good outcome so

(55:31):
that kind of puts that worry
in a little bit of a pickle i would say
but school really knows that when that
went into us though because in in school
as we as we go through the system it's
not just you know
don't don't fail your test it's don't
fail your test because then you'll fail
your class which may make you fail your
year which means you'll never get a job

(55:52):
and nobody's going to love you because
you'll be you won't be a success and
they just it just tails off from there
so at 16 years old even just a multiple
choice a b or c is causing us no end of
stress because our entire life is on the
line
on whether or not we remember
pythagorean's theory
that's
and so
we we get into that habit of assuming

(56:14):
everything we do
the end result is dependent on it and
the older i get the more i realize that
the mistakes i made in my past really
didn't have the impact i thought they
were going to like all that stress that
i was going through over it's going to
ruin my life never really happened i
mean here i am i'm i'm in my 40s i'm i'm
in a job i never thought i'd have i'm in
a city i never thought i'd live in i'm

(56:35):
with the family i never thought would be
there none of which i saw it coming
and so all of my anxiety and my worry
about the future
was for nothing because nothing i ever
imagined happening is what actually
happened
oh yeah yeah couldn't agree with that
more i mean
where i'm at now like maybe

(56:56):
being close to quitting my job soon
because i'm
posting videos publicly on social media
and have people that actually
follow me and like
notice me in the street is like
if you told me that when i was in
college or graduating college or
a year into my job like

(57:16):
i would have called you an absolute
lunatic like
the idea because
it's crazy
yeah like
that we think we know what's gonna and
especially now with the idea of you know
college and stuff and i'll have because
like a decent amount of my followers are
younger kids in college you know who are

(57:37):
stressed and anxious and everything and
a lot of times my advice is like
it's probably like whatever test you're
on or like studying for
is not gonna have a big impact on your
life whatsoever like i don't mean just
like you know stop studying and go out
and party and like show up to your test

(57:58):
drunk or something but like
do your best and
see what happens but like you don't even
know
what
is gonna happen tomorrow and you're like
thinking that you do and you're thinking
that if you
fail this test like you said feel the
class
don't get a good job good job it's like

(58:19):
ah it's it's wild and
it's like i don't even use even in my i
mean certainly not in social media do i
use any school related learnings but
even in my job in digital advertising
it's fairly common to get for a lot of
kids after school marketing or
advertising or something
i don't use anything from my college
classes and that either i learned all

(58:40):
that in a six week training when i
started and then since the job just like
basically learn on the fly like
it's it's just wild absolutely i've
learned more since i left school
oh without a doubt i've worked more in
the last two months than i have in the
last
and even in college at all well what's

(59:00):
funny is is the thing that i really
learned or the thing that that i learned
that changed everything for me was
why i was having so much problems
learning
right it's because i wasn't it was the
the archer that we described in the last
episode right i was focused on the grade
and the test i was focused on the work
in front of me and where it would take
me and so that reflected on me and my

(59:22):
value and that brought up all kinds of
comparison to everybody else and how i
assumed they would be doing and so the
whole time 95 of my attention is
somewhere else while i'm trying to study
yes i did cut out because i accidentally
hit the space bar and it muted me the
point being is that
school teaches us to think in a certain
way and it's counterintuitive in the

(59:42):
extreme because my daughter's home
school perfect example
she learns things as they become
relevant to her
because they're when they're not
relevant you're just drilling them with
information they're going to forget i
mean how much did you learn in grade
school that you don't remember even
learning
right but it made it feel eight hours a

(01:00:04):
day kept you off the streets and then
god knows we don't want children just
running around in the streets reminding
adults what life is all about
so that's right so we we want to get to
keep them out of sight so
parents can continue to go to school and
drive the system that continues to make
them put their their kids in school it's
just it's just craziness like we have

(01:00:24):
gotten so out of hand with the idea of
production and progress and advancement
that we've forgotten what when enough is
enough
when am i fulfilled when am i happy
right and then what can i do with that
it's not we don't focus on that at all
at all it's you'll be happy when you do
enough you'll be happy when you have
enough you'll be happy when people

(01:00:45):
approve of you enough
and and that never works
never happens never comes
no it's like my grandfather used to say
you know you can make some people happy
you can't make everybody happy ever and
it's like right so why bother
what like just just be yourself and the
people who are going to resonate with it

(01:01:06):
will resonate with it and the people who
aren't won't and that's on them
yeah no matter what you do
people are going to love you and hate
you for the same exact thing yes
exactly yeah
taking time out of their day to write a
negative comment you know
yeah oh i love it i i'm just like let's

(01:01:28):
let's keep that happening you know just
keep keep talking because
at some point it's going to get to a
point where you're you're going to
either have an insight or you're going
to get so pissed off that you stopped
talking to me entirely and it's going to
rattle you for the rest of the day which
may lead to another insight
right we don't know how that works out
but i do know that by allowing people to
stay in their comfort zone simply so

(01:01:50):
they'll like me more i'm not doing
anybody any good
right and that's a big part of this is
being willing to not be liked
sometimes you have to be willing to be
perceived as the bad guy in order to do
any good
yeah yeah and it's so i'm just i've
gotten so used to like questioning

(01:02:10):
everything and not you know to put
myself on a pedestal or anything but
it's like
so i find it so interesting when
people are so sure of themselves or they
don't
want to
question it also i mean it makes sense
why you wouldn't want a question because
then it's like you may have to admit
that you're wrong or you might have to

(01:02:31):
face the fact that everything is
uncertain and you might have to face
this idea of
being uncomfortable and uncomfortability
and
i just think that if you can find
the comfort in just kind of there's
actually i think i wrote it down on my
phone probably but when i was
um
on
the mushrooms this weekend i i was

(01:02:53):
thinking about discomfort and the idea
of discomfort and how like any time i've
had discomfort and it's been
like
calmed or like i've gotten comfortable
again discomfort comes up again like
it's a never ending cycle so the only
thing
you can ever do is work on being
comfortable in discomfort and then

(01:03:15):
you'll never be
uncomfortable that's right and
realizing like and accepting when you're
uncomfortable or accepting when you're
anxious
or accepting when you're not feeling
great and you'll never not feel great
almost it's like you will
but you won't have so much attached to

(01:03:36):
it and you'll know that it's okay and
it's not gonna last and it's when
there's this uncertainty or like the
idea when alan watts talks about like
you know it's the fear that you know if
everything is black and white it's the
fear that you know black will win and
that's all that it ever is and it's like

(01:03:57):
it that never
it's never how it goes it's it's part
both are part of each other and they're
always happening
and if you can become
comfortable whether it's black or white
or
anything
you'll you'll never
have to fear life is just what it is
yeah but and that's that's where

(01:04:17):
religion or at least i know christianity
tends to lose the point in that
they try to have faith
in something in order to deal with the
uncertainty of life and then if for them
it's having faith in god or in jesus or
in in the rules or judgment day or
whatever it might be so they're having
faith

(01:04:37):
in another mechanism for control right
so in another concept that gives them
the idea that a certain end result is
going to happen and that it's within
their control and so that type of faith
isn't faith
right it's just another
illusion of control faith true faith is
faith in nothing it's just faith in

(01:04:58):
yourself it's just moving forward right
and that that's the only way we can
balance the reality of uncertainty is to
remember right
whatever the unknown is it's me facing
it
that's all i need to know is me yeah
and having that
faith in yourself and even even with

(01:05:20):
confidence too like
i think of confidence is less so a
feeling and more so just
an action no matter
how you feel it's not about feeling
confident it's about no matter how
you're feeling or how you think you
might feel it's about doing
whatever it is anyway

(01:05:41):
and realizing that
you'll be okay and it's all about those
actions despite
that discomfort or uncomfortability and
once you take enough of those then
you'll have so much you'll have built
it's almost like building trust in
yourself and doing
what you say you will and you know you

(01:06:02):
should be doing like if there's you know
something you're really nervous about
like you know given a presentation or a
speech and and you do it anyway you're
building trust in yourself and that sort
of
actions i like to think of it like the
actions despite how you feel are like
bricks if confidence were the building
and every action you take despite how

(01:06:23):
you feel no matter how you feel if you
do it anyway just one more brick on the
building and eventually that building
gets a lot taller it's never there's no
end to that
but it's always a process and there is a
point i think that you get to that
you're just like
i may not feel great i may feel super
confident all the time now you know i've

(01:06:44):
built so many freaking bricks that my
building is massive and you know there's
nothing really stopping me ever or even
hesitations and that feeling the initial
feeling all of a sudden becomes
a sort of confidence but until then it's
just
actions despite how you feel yep
absolutely and that
that

(01:07:04):
oddly enough that that habit of breaking
the habit of doubting yourself
or the habit of breaking a habit is what
brings you back to that state constantly
right it's like i don't i'm just going
to decide how i'm going to interpret
this i'm going to decide what i'm going
to do here rather than resort to my
previous actions regardless of how
similar this experience might be i'm not

(01:07:25):
going to have a reaction as it were i'm
going to act here in the moment
on my own will not not based on any
structure not based on on any crutch and
so that's that's really the next that
that's the next big step beyond being
willing to question things it's being
willing to move forward without a sense
of certainty right without having that

(01:07:47):
sense of control and that's only
something you can do through practice
it's like buddha said you know we're
tested like steel through fire
yeah yeah and i think that like it just
reminds me of you know your
takes on manifesting and i think that is
a sort of
sense of feel like i i was doing it

(01:08:08):
pretty regularly up until two weeks ago
and then i said and then i stopped
because i think what you said just made
sense and i was like starting to wonder
like oh [ __ ] like i literally just
posted a video about how i manifest
every morning
yesterday on youtube
and i don't think it makes any sense
anymore and so i'm gonna stop and
since then i've realized just how much

(01:08:30):
it's still clinging on to
a belief in needing a crutch it's like
you can't like you said you can't if
you're manifesting and saying like i am
so grateful that i have 10 million
dollars it's like you don't have 10
million dollars and no matter you're
using it as a crutch to feel good why
can't you feel good
right now and so i've been a lot more

(01:08:52):
present and not because it does it's
it's not really
being present as much as you can tell
yourself you're grateful that you have
something that you don't
you don't
that's it and like it can it can help
you feel good
but
it's too important
yeah right there's a consequence as

(01:09:14):
always right and that's the whole thing
is because the brain is a comparison
engine it's like you know i'm grateful
for 10 million dollars which i don't
have yet but i'm gonna feel the
gratitude i would have if i had 10
million dollars and it's like that's
that's a lovely thought if you could lie
to yourself convincingly
but you can't so what you're doing is
you're saying i'll be grateful for the
10 million dollars i'm feeling that now

(01:09:35):
but your brain's also going but we don't
have 10 million dollars so i'm not as
grateful for what i have now
immediately the brain plays that game
perception is just a pain in the ass
that way and you can use that to your
advantage if you're doing a hard work or
a hard job you can you can actually say
i've done harder and the perception
changes all of a sudden the job becomes
a little bit easier as a result so you

(01:09:55):
can use that to some degree but
to forget that it's always happening to
forget that as soon as we look to the
future as a source of happiness the
present becomes less a source of
happiness
as soon as we forget that we end up in a
fog again
so with with that though what about like
because sometimes when i start feeling a
little bit sick like i'll have a sore

(01:10:16):
throat i'll go through and tell myself
like how grateful i am that i'm so
healthy and every cell of my body is
super healthy and
what like what what are your thoughts on
that is do you think that's different or
like same exact thing as a 10 million
dollar thing and where is it
okay i think it's different in in that
while you're talking to your body which

(01:10:37):
you have
your body is there right and and the
thing is is what you're really doing is
you're you're changing
you're raising your own level of
consciousness you're late
raising your own level of awareness and
doing that you're letting go of the
narrative right you're letting go of the
narrative i'm going to keep getting
sicker you're letting go with an area of
elements because of this this and this
this and so you're allowing yourself to

(01:10:58):
come back to the present you're allowing
yourself to be
less stressed out by all of those
thoughts which oddly enough improves
your your immune response right because
stress hurts your immune response stress
hurts your body in general so whatever
you can do to alleviate that stress
which is always coming back to the
present is going to help you get
healthier it's also going to help you

(01:11:18):
manifest because in the present is where
you actually have sway over what's
happening
okay that makes sense yeah because it's
so it's like it's more so the idea of
not allowing yourself to identify as a
sick person
kind of like because you're not even i
mean you're not even the person so it

(01:11:40):
would be silly to identify as a sick
person to begin with but this is just
what i'm going through
yeah because i've had that sort of like
back and forth between like the
manifesting idea of like that and i
always thought there was a difference
and i think i've i think there was a
podcast i was guessed on that i kind of
talked about that idea of like it's not
so much

(01:12:00):
a belief
in it or like the the acceptance aspect
like i think acceptance is hugely
beneficial whatever you're feeling
whatever you're going through but when
it comes to being sick i don't like or
feeling a little bit sick like is it
good to accept it and be like
i'm
i feel sick right now or i thought maybe

(01:12:20):
it's i accept that i'm not feeling
amazing right now but i'm grateful for
how healthy i am and that sort of thing
like i accept that i
i'm feeling this but it's almost like
saying that you're sick or like ex i
accept that i'm a sick person right now
is like that's not it that's an
identification

(01:12:41):
with an idea the idea of being a sick
person that in our heads you know we can
picture you know someone with tubes up
their nose being in a hospital bed it's
like no you just feel this thing
in your throat you don't even have to
think of it as sickness you can accept
that and be grateful for
how amazing you feel everywhere else
something like that absolutely well and
it's important to remember that our

(01:13:03):
interpretation of the experience is not
the experience itself right like
how many times have you had a sore
throat and went oh oh god it could be
cancer or anything and it's just it's
because of your mentality at the time
it's not like you know it it's not like
you're actually doing any tests or
anything whatsoever you're just assuming
based on the narrative that for some
reason you feel is going to

(01:13:23):
pay off egotistically pay off in a sense
of control or pay off in in some sense
of certainty and that's really the pain
in the ass about concepts is that we
will settle on a concept that is
unpleasant
instead of just being uncertain
right it's like i would rather know and
suffer
than not know

(01:13:44):
it's like see over time i was just i'd
rather just not know like so i uh i was
diagnosed with a condition called
pigment dispersion glaucoma so i've uh a
good a good portion of my eyesight is
gone
as a result of that and for years i felt
really bad for myself you know oh my god
i'm going to go blind blah blah and all
my my specialists are like oh you're

(01:14:06):
going to go blind like really young
and
[Music]
that that tore me up for a while and
then i realized i don't know that and
neither do they like they're just saying
what they know based on
previous studies based on previous
people based on their own experience
they don't know and they don't know what
what's going to you know develop over

(01:14:27):
time like they've discovered that there
are uh different natural things that
that help with this particular you know
condition and so
i just went well i don't know
i don't know so all i'm gonna do is
instead of telling myself a story is i'm
going to deal with it as it happens and
then move on with my life in the best
and happiest way that i can and as a

(01:14:48):
result my condition has stabilized i'm
like 17 years into it pardon the phone
and um
it's uh it continues to improve even
though they said it wouldn't
yeah it's like when you're
yeah when you're when you're talking to
doctors you can just be like well i'm
not blind now that's right
yeah it's like you don't know you can't

(01:15:10):
tell the future just as much as i can't
just as much as anyone but we get caught
up in that and and
the medical profession is is
not excluded from egotism right it's uh
there are doctors who very much believe
the same thing as most people who
believe who go to school and get
educated that you know i now know
everything there is to know about this

(01:15:30):
by virtue of my schooling it's like
because you've learned a particular
perspective doesn't make it the truth it
just makes it the perspective that
you've learned to operate within you
know it's like there used to be
uh doctors quote unquote doctors who who
would swear by leeches
you know and and they're like oh this is
this is this has worked we've seen
anecdotal evidence that this has worked

(01:15:50):
sometimes occasionally right and it's
like okay but that doesn't necessarily
mean you see the whole picture of why
it did work and why it didn't work right
because we don't know everything and
then that's that's again that's
that's a danger that we tend to fall
into when we when we believe in
education you know like concepts are
somehow the the thing that they're
trying to describe

(01:16:12):
yeah i see that
yeah so much just like with education
it's also like you're learning it
through a teacher who has their own
perception of reality and their own
perspective one individual
perception and perspective and
who's teaching it through
people who distilled it in their own

(01:16:33):
individual perspective and now you're
learning it through your own individual
perspective and yet we take it as
truth and sure there's certain things
like certain mathematical related things
that you know you could say are more
less subjective but
most stuff in school is extremely

(01:16:54):
subjective and how things were
perceived even like you know a history
class where a war happened it's like
you know if you're learning about it in
america versus if you're learning about
it and you know england it's going to be
a very different perspective
and yet it's it's in books that have
been published and

(01:17:14):
you know those aren't changing
by the victors right history is always
written by the victors it's funny that
that's something that's really happening
right now is that
a lot of our our accepted narrative
collectively and specifically in a
eurocentric white society
has been you know like oh look at us
we're you know amazing people we we came

(01:17:34):
over and found this continent and and
and we just we settled it we we made it
you know uh civilized as it were and
it's like well yeah you also murdered
millions of people you also like
destroyed the environment you've also
done a whole bunch of other things
that now
as we are waking up as a culture as
we're starting to question our own egos

(01:17:56):
right we're able to look at these other
cultures that we've essentially
decimated that we've essentially you
know pillaged and broken over time and
we're listening to them going you know
we've been saying this forever and
you're like right but we were too stupid
to listen
like we were so caught up in being
masters of the [ __ ] universe
that we didn't realize

(01:18:17):
you're part of the universe that
like we're in this together
and so a lot of my native american
friends over time have commented that
the history of white people coming over
was very much that they looked crazy
they looked insane like they were
looking at the world like something that
they could own
which which if you look at it from the
natural perspective that you were

(01:18:37):
talking about at the beginning of the
podcast is insane that somehow we can
own the land that spawned us
yeah
it's like very backwards i've heard
that um described as like when
the native americans when we uh
came over you know whoever came over

(01:18:57):
everyone from europe and whatnot they uh
they were trying to buy the lands part
of the reason that it was so cheap was
because the native americans didn't
think of it as they owned the land it
was more so
the land owned them and they belonged to
the land the land didn't belong to them
so
they like they didn't

(01:19:18):
even comprehend it so you know you're
able to buy something like manhattan for
like a few beads or whatever they paid
for like 100 bucks or something like
absolutely absurd
well considering everything we've
covered in this podcast and i think
we're coming up to an hour and a half um
we should probably wrap up episode one
episode two we're on now this was an

(01:19:39):
excellent follow-up to episode one in
that
we went a bit deeper on stuff and and we
really started talking more about the
subjective experience of duality and
kind of all the fun stuff that happens
on the internal
which is what i was really hoping to get
to it's one thing you and i have talked
about a few times that
as much as we can perceive ourselves as
being one
externally physically as a part of a

(01:20:00):
single tapestry it isn't until you start
experiencing the subjective without the
narrative that you start to realize
oh we are all the same awareness
and it's just because it's your thoughts
that are distracting you from that
insight right so i'm so stoked for you
man definitely yeah i mean i'm i'm
stoked in general

(01:20:21):
too it's been like it's been so awesome
and i even had i had some stuff that i
wanted to like run through here we're
obviously not gonna get to it in this
episode but like we can continue talking
after
yeah we'll uh we'll get that for our
patreon
members um but yeah i have like some
stuff and we didn't even you know get
into that we just started rolling and

(01:20:42):
here we are it's been almost an hour and
a half so much to talk about right 10
minutes so to our listeners um i just
want to say thank you again for joining
us for this extended episode obviously
we're going to continue having these
long conversations because they're so
much fun do get in touch with us on
social media let us know if you have any
comments or questions we would love to
include you in this talk and of course

(01:21:03):
if you would like access to uh
recordings of our live sessions on tick
tock or
recordings of our conversations after
these podcasts you can actually access
them all for five dollars a month on our
patreon page and we will be regularly
updating that page with new content as
well so that's definitely one way to
keep in touch with us as well we do um
live streams exclusively for our patreon

(01:21:25):
supporters on the third wednesday of
every month as well from 6 to 7 30
eastern time
yeah looking forward to next week
already
likewise thank you so much everybody for
uh for joining us and we will see you on
episode three

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S.1 Ep.2: Psychedelics and our Subjective Reality

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