S.1 Ep.3: The One Step Process

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode three of
dualistic unity i
am everyone
and today i'll be playing the part of
rey again
it's been an amazing week again man
there's just so much happening
so much uh for those tuning in
i took
uh four grams of mushrooms yesterday and

(00:22):
it was
it was it was a great ride and i'm
excited to discuss that with someone who
has done
it many times
much more than i have you know not
trying to convince anyone to do anything
obviously i think my state of mind is
very
primed for experiences like that

(00:44):
certainly it wasn't jarring for me at
all it was
it was like what i already knew and it
became more clear to me that
mushroom it makes sense why people who
take mushrooms like some of them their
eyes are you know more open some of them
it's just like a fun trip you know stuff

(01:04):
gets wiggly but it it doesn't actually
teach you
anything necessarily it gives you the
opportunity to see things if you're
ready so for for if you're very much
think that you know you're this human
and that's all you are all you ever will
be and you're born on a day and you'll

(01:24):
die on a day like i can see why it would
be lead to a bad trip or something
because
it it cuts you down peels things back
like nope you're not just that you're uh
you're everything and you always have it
that's right and and it's funny because
you don't necessarily need psychedelics

(01:45):
to to achieve that by any means i mean a
lot of people have through practice
meditation through different
techniques such as yoga or tai chi
things like that they're just getting
deeper and deeper and deeper into the
moment deeper and deeper away from our
mind but
in the world that we live in right now
and i know i've had this conversation
many times
there are so many
influences that exacerbate our stress

(02:07):
there are so many things that are
constantly just pounding us over the
head with the need to think about
ourselves that it becomes very difficult
to establish that practice and so
psychedelic experiences are often a way
to kind of shortcut your way past that
stress but there are there's a danger as
well in that because then you almost
expect it to be that easy when you're

(02:27):
not being helped and so it's important
to remember that while they can be a
shortcut
they are a shortcut to work that you are
still doing and will continue doing once
the psychedelics have worn off that that
process that you're going through in
that experience continues on into
sobriety you're just not as aware of it
yeah that's what i've seen is

(02:48):
so my experience i can kind of get into
that in more detail but basically
everything was so
obviously clear when i was going through
it and it certainly stayed with me
but there have been like you know
the
my identification with andrew and fears
and wants like they're i can feel them

(03:10):
trying to like get back in and i i latch
onto and when i was going through
you know yesterday for a few hours it
was there was none of that and it was so
everything was so
clear
and
and so afterwards i still have that sort
of
clarity feeling which i was already
feeling before i ever tried any sort of

(03:31):
psychedelics but
i i see
how it
people can get right back into their
patterns essentially if they don't
if they think that it's all
you know the
mushrooms or whatever psychedelics
you're taking so that's often what
happens unfortunately that's exactly
what happens it's like you know it's

(03:52):
it's the psychedelics doing the work
it's like no it was always you doing the
work it was it was always you and if you
take responsibility from that you can
you can continue to do it
but if you pass it off then you're not
going to learn anything from it if
anything you're actually going to get
farther away disregarding those
uncomfortable insights is just you know
the drugs instead of no it just makes me
uncomfortable and i don't want to look

(04:12):
at it right now because i'm not relaxed
enough to feel that i can look at it and
not be afraid and that's really all it
is right is that you cut your strings
and you're like i can look at anything
because nothing is is terrifying to me
right i'm perfectly good being uncertain
so bring on the insights whereas the
rest of the time when we're over
committed to the idea that we need to be
in control or that there's a me to be in

(04:35):
control
that's all just riddled with fear
there's nothing to do there except be
afraid and defend that idea of yourself
and so you can't take any insights
everything is a threat to you
yeah
it hit me like nothing nothing can go
wrong
there is no like that is what

(04:55):
anxiety and fear stem from is the idea
that something could go wrong and it it
can't and you can make up a story
that it could
if you're identified with certain things
and attached to certain things and you
know things something changes and all of
a sudden you perceive that as something
bad happening or something
wrong happening and it's like there is

(05:17):
no
wrong how could anything
go how how could it even go wrong what
does that even
mean in what in what sense and and
so i can get into i don't know if i can
run through quick like what i
did yesterday and and what i took and
whatnot i basically for sure i just want

(05:37):
to make the quick point and and it's
important to remember that the
implications of what we're talking about
are huge in terms of how we can apply
this to mental health because in in
mental health scenarios we're often
trying to come up with coping mechanisms
we're trying to gain context for
exploring our past our history our
trauma so on and so forth and in that we
almost perpetuate

(05:58):
that journey because we're trying to
come to a resolution whereas the
mentality we're talking about is to go
right that that big scary dinosaur in my
head of that memory is just to fly if i
can change my perspective of my power
within this relationship or of my role
within my existence and and so the
implications are massive for what we can

(06:19):
do in our day-to-day life but it's
interesting that it's this conversation
that leads us to those insights so by
all means explain what you've been going
through this week because that's great
um
so
for those listening we talked about it
last week but i took i tried some for
the first time last weekend basically
and throughout the week kind of every
other day i was trying out different

(06:40):
like micro doses and then
yesterday i figured i could handle more
and so i took three grams um and then an
hour and a half later i took
another extra gram as ray refers to as
the kicker um which i think definitely
you know hit me in that second wave a
little bit more strongly um it was great

(07:00):
and basically uh so i have here i'll
just um i have this
uh it's a sound acoustic sound board
thing that i got this is like acoustic
sound board two just like so my room is
quieter and sound stays in and then in
my room i have this
like psychedelic type flag with it's
like a greenery

(07:21):
uh cave with a bunch of mushrooms on
either side and then it's kind of
looking out into space exactly so i
start
so starting out uh probably
what was it 20 minutes in
stuff started getting a little wobbly
and i was like
oh this is weird and then i was like no
it's okay this is what's supposed to be
happening so i i like there was a split

(07:43):
second or i was like oh
and then i was like no it's okay and
then and then i sort of relaxed into it
and then i was staring at that thing the
world for a while and it started like
moving and then it was like it started
breathing
and i was like it started to hit me like
so it's all
just
happening and we are
this earth just happening and it's sort

(08:04):
of like everything individually
happening it's just like
the earth sort of breathing
and then i was there for
probably 15 minutes just in this chair
just staring at that and i was like i
should go check out that new psychedelic
thing i got
uh with all the mushrooms and stuff that
would probably be pretty cool to look at
so i looked at that and that's where

(08:26):
stuff really
started to hit me that was probably 45
minutes in
and i just laid down on my bed with my
pillow under my head just staring at it
and it started moving a lot it was like
flashing and stuff was wiggling
and
it was almost like they took me back to
that it was like this flag is is earth

(08:48):
with mushrooms on it just like a bunch
of beautiful greenery looking out into
space and it's like that was what earth
was and it's sort of like it transported
me in a sense back to
you know millions of years ago before
anything any humans were around
and it just became very clear

(09:09):
that this is what has
always been
and we just came through
evolution of you know more recently was
through apes before that you know
probably i don't know if i i don't know
but yeah mycelium we came from mushrooms
yeah
yeah

(09:30):
so
yeah that's that's what i thought i
wasn't sure so i was like i don't know
exactly but it came became very clear
that we came from
the earth
and it just
is and everything just is and that's
what kept hitting me like everything
just is everything has always been what
could
be otherwise what could be

(09:52):
before what's been that's just what's
been and this idea of the observer and
the observed it couldn't be other and
it's no there is no separation
it's just what is and always has been
and
this idea of you know any sort of belief
any sort of religion

(10:13):
everything that we've built upon the
earth is just
a layer and it's not
what
it our belief well it is and it isn't
like it is what is because it is
but it's also
not it's like our idea of what
is in any religion is just a story that
we've layered on top of you know oh no

(10:36):
this is what it is it's like it's always
just been what is and we happen to come
out of the earth over millions hundreds
of millions of years we came to
this point but it's always
just been and the only thing there ever
is
is what is
now and that's whatever trying to

(10:56):
describe
anyone's ever talked about basically and
every time people who don't have the
clarity
take the words and focus on the words or
they take the actions and focus on the
actions of that person who had that
moment of clarity instead of realizing
oh it's just the clarity it's the
clarity that's doing it it's not the
yoga it's not the tai chi it's not the

(11:18):
the tibetan singing bowls it's none of
that that's all lovely if you're in a
state of clarity but it doesn't replace
clarity this is why krishnamurti was
saying that the messenger is always a
traitor
and we can't help it there's nothing we
can do about it because we can try and
be as clear as possible but that doesn't
guarantee the message is going to come
across which is why jesus always said
let those who have ears to hear hear

(11:41):
yeah
yeah and it's
it's almost like it's so obvious
of course it's it's what we just
yeah but we just and all that
there is like there is nothing to do
there is nowhere to go there is nowhere
to be there is nowhere to come from or
go to it's just what is the only thing i
think

(12:02):
anyone like us in this podcast could
ever do is try and like
like sort of like the mushrooms do just
peel back and question why why do you
believe this to be it it's this is what
is
this is what is and
that's
how could it be
and and that's the thing right and that

(12:22):
that's exactly why i find it so funny
that there are so many follow these 10
steps to enlightenment or follow these
12 stages to peaceful living it's like
it's a one-step process it's just one
step that you have to continuously
repeat you don't get to stop practicing
this one step which is always just
increasing or or allowing your awareness

(12:43):
to act
right but how do you how do you make
that into a profitable business how do
you turn that into a book that people
are going to come back to and read over
and over and over again right i've had
so many people say can you write a book
it's like no
because if i do it's gonna be even
harder to to compensate for the message
that's coming through here i can do it

(13:03):
through speaking but in a book you're
just going to take what i've written and
run with it and i'd rather be in the
conversation i'd rather be somewhere in
that living dialogue where i can at
least account for some of the
misinterpretation
but it always comes back down to it's a
one-step process improve your awareness
and everything else will follow

(13:23):
yeah it's
it's it's hard it is hard to put
in towards any
sort of situation because it isn't
the word it's not words you know alan
watts has some speeches about that it's
like how can you
you can't say what reality is because
reality isn't words
so it just it just is and it's

(13:46):
it's like so
i don't i don't i don't know if i want
to say obvious because
it's clearly not
but it almost is
it's
yeah but our problem is
lack of clarity and and this is
something that's really dawned on me
over time is that
as a species we tend to put thought and

(14:09):
and logic on on a pedestal like it is
the epitome of human intelligence
but thought is actually
degraded intelligence
thought conceptual thought is is all
dualism it's all you know me versus that
you know you versus them dark versus
light there's no there's no whole
context there's no um

(14:29):
understanding of the whole picture it's
always just
categorized sections right and so
when we are being truly intelligent it's
almost like we're not thinking or rather
the processing is happening on another
level entirely it's not conceptual
and that's the process we were talking
about like catching a baseball for
example right you're not conceptualizing
the ball that's why i find the

(14:51):
expression be the ball to be so goddamn
funny because that's exactly what you're
doing in that moment you're you're
letting go of the disconnect between the
ball happening and you happening and so
you just catch the ball because that's
that's the completion of what is for
that for that cycle right and so we
almost get out of our way and allow
ourselves to be what reality is which is

(15:14):
intelligence manifest
yeah
yeah
and that idea of
everyone any words that you use or
thoughts or intelligence is just
coming from
a perspective
of
what is so it couldn't

(15:34):
how could you put into words or express
or explain
what is from
one perspective even from your
you know you're five feet tall or you're
seven feet tall like even from like
literally a physical perspective
how could you express things
in the same way it's it's like it's
impossible and i was

(15:56):
i was walking around so i i
was probably i don't know when i texted
you i was
you know venturing out and i almost
turned around as soon as i walked
outside because i was like i'm tripping
balls right now and i started like dying
laughing like right outside my door and
i turned around and i was like

(16:16):
i could do this i could do this and it
was it was probably after two hours of
taking the first dose i took the first
one at like 1 30 and it was like 3 30 so
it was only like less than an hour after
the kicker
too and i was walking around and i was
like had a big old shitty grit on my
face just like walking around like no

(16:36):
like
structure what's that it was just like
like so loose and
it was saturday midday in new york city
so it was crowded it was very crowded
and i was like i would start laughing
here and there i was like ooh people i
wonder what i look like to other people
right now i probably look like i'm

(16:57):
tripping balls on something because i
always do i i gotta tell you like i know
for a fact because i don't i don't hold
anything back on my face right because i
i don't care if anybody's looking at me
so i have the same very much the same
attitude when i go out into the world as
you did yesterday it's just whatever i'm
here for me this is my experience this
is what i'm here for i will sit and i

(17:18):
will talk to a squirrel i will i will
stop suddenly stop in the middle of
walking and go
huh that's really really interesting and
nobody's there and i know people are
driving by looking at me going huh
i don't care i don't care at all because
i mean at the very worst what's going to
happen is somebody's going to go home
and go i was just watching this crazy
dude on the street just going through
this process and they're going to laugh

(17:39):
about it and i've just improved my own
day through them by not giving a [ __ ]
definitely and i was because i was
walking around like smiling and
and
i knew
every single person walking past me i
mean i don't know for sure but like it's
likely that
they were looking at me like wondering

(18:00):
what i'm smiling about and they were
probably wondering if like they
had something like they
looked weird or something just because
of my own past experiences of that like
someone is walking around with a massive
smile on their face kind of laughing be
like what's going on here like is it is
there something on my shirt and

(18:23):
it was just i was just tripping balls
and there was nothing to do with anyone
else whatsoever that was it and it was
that's
whether you were tripping balls or not
the the important part was that you were
living strictly for you in that moment
everybody else's perception of you was
irrelevant and that's why you looked so
free and so happy and what's funny is

(18:44):
that people will see you in that state
and immediately they'll go exactly what
you're saying is he looking at me what
is it something i'm wearing and blah
blah and you're almost in a state where
it's like you know if you stop doing
that you could join me
right if you just let all that go you'd
be just as stoked to be here as i am
right and and that's that's the power of

(19:04):
being
free of our stuff of being free of our
ego is that we walk around the world
being an embodiment of that freedom
people see us
whether we're tripping balls or over
sober because we're so free people see
us and they go i don't know what that is
but i'd like to experience a bit more of
it
and my father-in-law had actually said
that to me when i first met him years
ago and we didn't hit it off you know

(19:26):
well at first because we have different
mentalities and he asked me like where
do you want to be in five years my
response was in a state of mind where i
don't care where i am in five years
that was my answer right and so after
getting to know me for a while he said
you know i don't understand where you're
coming from but i would like to
you know i would like to see a little
bit more of that in my own life

(19:47):
and it's like well that's great but it's
kind of a commitment like you actually
have to commit to it's not just a little
bit when you're feeling a consequence it
has to be 24 7. it's it's it's a 24 7
thing like you're either on the ball or
you're not you're either you know
questioning yourself or you're getting
comfortable
but it's one or the other all the time
right and that's it so if you're doing

(20:08):
that in your day-to-day life you're
going to walk around the world with an
expression on your face like you're just
having a great time you're going to be
more open as a result and people are
going to feel more comfortable
letting go of their thoughts about
themselves that's the wonderful part
about that that power of not trying to
save the world is that you change the
world as a result

(20:29):
yeah certainly yeah and
and i do find myself you know walking
around even when i'm not
especially the last couple months just
it really that feeling of of
self-consciousness has
decreased
significantly and now that
you know i know that

(20:49):
everyone is like what could there
possibly be to be self-conscious about
it's almost like cuts through the whole
thing and it's like
name something then
you can't like you just can't well
people will say like you know you're a
bit of an [ __ ] sometimes and it's
like yeah absolutely i have that in me
for sure i have everything in me

(21:10):
name it it's all in there like i have
nothing to defend i'm awareness the
worst villain to the best hero and
everything in between
so there's no point in defending myself
that's just me trying to hold on to an
idea which just limits me from all the
other insights
i'd prefer to be free and and completely
unpredictable
because it's more fun yeah yeah and just

(21:32):
the idea of holding on to beliefs
because i i think you posted a video
recently
talking about you know the clinging to
beliefs and this was a few days ago and
i said i wanted to talk about it on the
podcast with things like religion and
people
you know they'll say
you know just because you don't believe
in it doesn't mean i don't have to just
let me believe what i believe and now

(21:55):
after yesterday it's a lot clearer
why that's it's just
it's like just stories about
that you're clinging to that you don't
have to no but they make me feel secure
yeah
right because i'm holding on to other
stories that make me feel afraid
that's that's the thing about cognitive

(22:16):
dissonance is that we will commit to a
certain strategy or a certain perception
or a certain way of looking at ourself
in the world and we do that in order to
feel secure or to feel more stable or to
feel morally superior whatever it might
be
but the consequence that comes with that
strategy
is always fear and frustration and and
defensiveness and everything else but

(22:37):
because we're so committed to the
benefit of the strategy we won't tie the
consequence to that strategy we'll
actually say like i can't figure it out
you know i always need to be on the ball
i'm always doing my task list and i
still can't figure out why i'm so
anxious it's like because of that that
that they're the same problem like
you're over committed to control so
that's creating more fear right but we

(22:58):
don't want to tie them together because
then if i do that i have to stop
i have to stop over committing to
control if i recognize it's also the
source of my fear but i don't like that
because i'm over committed to control
and so we immediately have this
cognitive dissonance where it's like no
they can't be related and we go in
circles trying to avoid it's like a dog
chasing its tail
yeah and that idea of control

(23:20):
there it's there's nothing
it's an illusion so you can't even
you can try for it all you want but yeah
it's like a dog chasing his tail or like
a hamster running a wheel
or like you know an asymptote it just
there is no you you think you can get to
it but there's no
getting to it so all and that

(23:41):
idea of getting to it when you start to
retract from it
takes away and that's what leads to the
opposite
or anxiety or whatever but if you can
realize that there is no
control there is no
belief that you have to have about
anything
then that's it there is the opposite do

(24:02):
you see how that's counterintuitive too
our brain does not like that i i said it
years ago the biggest kick in the teeth
for seekers of truth is that there's no
truth to seek
right because we define ourselves by
that journey
and we you know we we hold ourselves in
great esteem because it's like oh i'm
i'm going towards enlightenment and then
you get there and you're like i wasn't

(24:23):
going anywhere i could have just i could
have played mario kart and i would have
been fine right like it's just because
it doesn't matter what you're doing in
that state that that's the amazing part
about it is that you know we spend so
much time trying to to act spiritual or
to act enlightened and then we get into
that state and we're like
oh i can swear i can have a beer i can i

(24:45):
can do whatever i want
because i'm not thinking about myself
none of that is me trying to measure up
to this purity test none of this is me
trying to get somewhere holy [ __ ] i'm
free
and that changes everything but our
brain when we're confused especially in
identifying
we always see a journey we always see
you know there's me now and then there's
me in the future it's like you're the

(25:06):
same me the only difference is how much
crap you're holding on to
yeah i think that's since meeting you
and interacting with you beforehand it's
a lot clearer now just through my own
experiences too but before i've told you
that i've gotten kind of caught up in
you know being this person who posts on
social media and thinking that oh

(25:28):
because of that i have to like you know
not drink as much or you know be
something else and and it's just so
freeing
and
i for one i don't
almost have i have very little desire to
drink at all
anymore especially with i don't know the
mushrooms are like kind of kicking that

(25:49):
for some reason and just the idea that
they're uh like
there is a reason that people
drink and no i don't know maybe some
people like the taste but i think that's
a lot
fewer than maybe would would admit but
the idea that there is
no
way
to be it and i think it's become

(26:11):
clearer why initially when we were
talking about people like eckhart tolle
something like that how he
has sort of like morphed in this figure
where he you know talks very quietly and
and very slow and and oh it is it is
what is and it is peace and it's like
you don't have to do that man like you
can you can be here now yeah realizing

(26:34):
that is it's it's almost like he's he
doesn't think that he can do that and he
it's almost like he feels like he has to
be
more like that type of person and you've
got
right it's another sense of control as i
in this state i'm very calm and i feel
at peace and i feel you know like i'm
i'm
in what is whereas if i were to get

(26:56):
emotional you know i might lose that i
mean
it's like you know riding too too fast
on a bike right and
if you lack faith in yourself then then
now you'll start to immediately grasp
for that sense of control as we always
do when we start to feel like we're
losing it but it's very much like
walking a tightrope
the more you worry about it the harder
it is
right you just have to walk the rope you

(27:17):
have to feel your balance you have to
just keep moving forward and you will
find your your stride right your sea
legs as i refer to it the other day
right you'll find your stride but you
actually have to trust in yourself you
actually have to get out there and and
start dancing you can't just think of
think about the dance moves and you
can't stick to a certain dance just
because that's where you feel
comfortable in the dance because the

(27:38):
dance is always changing and if you're
not then you're not really dancing and
that's when everybody starts pushing you
around because you're not in the flow
or you think there's an idea of where
you should be
it's like well you're you're here
so you couldn't be anywhere whether you
think you should or you shouldn't and
it almost seems like with people

(27:59):
like that who are very spiritual and
ceremonial
it's like they
they've realized it but
they're still
you know maybe he thinks that if he acts
like that he'll sell more books or
something or who knows
or that if he doesn't act like that

(28:20):
then maybe he doesn't have enough trust
in himself to express
it freely i mean maybe maybe that is him
expressing freely but
from all accounts and i've met a few
people who have met him he is like that
in in person like that's just the way he
is there's a certain calm reservation
about him and again i think that a lot

(28:41):
of that is is how he's learned to live i
think a lot of that is is again our
concepts of what it is to be enlightened
or spiritual or at peace um i always
find
to me my favorite imagery of being at
peace is is you know laughing my hat and
my my ass off with a friend listening
some music in the background or
something to me that's peace whereas a

(29:02):
lot of people in the spiritual community
especially will see like somebody
sitting in the lotus position on a
mountaintop
it's like okay like that's peaceful
right that's that's lovely but it
doesn't matter what the emotion is or or
what the circumstances are it doesn't
matter what you're doing right it's
peace it's it's an inner thing it's not
even an inner thing it's just what you
are it's just what you're radiating
because you're not

(29:22):
analyzing yourself you're not
criticizing yourself all the time you
are not a thing it's like um
doctor strange have you ever seen that
movie
i don't think i've seen that one there's
this fantastic line in doctor strange
because they're talking about his
abilities and the fact that he's a very
smart man he was a surgeon he's always
excelled in everything
but there's one insight that he never

(29:44):
got which is that it's not about him
and the whole movie just comes right
back down to that that insight like it's
not about you
individually it's not about you separate
from everything else it's not about you
the idea and and that's exactly the
point is that the more we get caught up
in that idea
the more we squander our incredible

(30:05):
ability the more we end up just playing
pretend instead of living in the world
it's not about us yeah and having and i
having an idea of who you
are even like it's just
clinging
almost like knowing yourself or having a
having an idea of who you are is
clinging to

(30:26):
something in the past of what was in a
moment
and then you've sort of it's almost like
you hit pause there and you're like oh
that's who i am and it's like i had all
these things and now it's like that's
who i am and then i'm gonna you know try
and be that and then it's like oh you
know life wants this but i don't know
i'm this person i'm this and

(30:48):
and it's like builds this
resistance
and
like detachment and whatever
you know
yeah immediately right it's like i am a
right turning ship it's like well the
wind's going left doesn't matter i'm a
right-turning ship it's like you don't
have to say like you can just turn
you don't have to abide by this idea you

(31:10):
can just adapt right but that's what we
do he's like no no this is this is
what's always kept me feeling safe this
is what's always kept me feeling secure
it's like right and as we said before
there's nothing more secure than a
prison cell
yeah and
what you said too there's so many things
you've said previously that have just
made more and more sense
recently and with like with gary vee

(31:32):
saying that you know he can't swear less
because that's not who he is it's like
that sort of like this is who he's
becoming he's becoming oh this is who he
is and now he's he's been that person
for
you know 10 years and that's
who he is and it's boxed up and packaged
into a nice
little cell and and what's worse is that

(31:53):
now he has followers who are like yeah
that's who he is that's why i support
him and then you have other followers
who are like oh yeah i don't like how
how he is there it's like he could
change
right and that's the thing is that we
get caught up in ideas about him in the
same way that he gets caught up in ideas
about him and so everybody is dealing
with their ideas of each other and
nobody's actually in a relationship
and then that's the funniest part right

(32:13):
especially in conversations you get into
a conversation and if you're
in the habit of identifying
you're not actually in that conversation
you're seeing all of your assumptions
about that person which validate your
assumptions about you and they're doing
the same thing so now you have two
images talking to images and nobody's
talking to each other
yeah
all just

(32:34):
ideas of
what is
and that's why often you'll run into
people and what they'll do is they will
they will tell you who they are they
will say oh people think this about me
and this person was saying this about me
and you know this you'll never guess
what i do and this is just who i am and
they will tell you their story and this
is why in first in initial life coaching

(32:55):
sessions i would always let people just
talk
for 90 minutes it's like tell me who you
think you are because in doing that i
can find your problems
yeah i've found it i've always found it
interesting the idea of
someone asking who you are or tell me
about yourself or or who are you like

(33:16):
with job stuff and resumes and it's like
how do you even
say that and you just say a bunch of
things that have happened in the past
that you were
you know there for basically
that was it right absolutely and and you
you cherry-pick the things that are
going to give you that sense of control
you're like no look i did this and and

(33:36):
this and this and this and and of course
you know anybody who wants to believe
those things will go hey that's great
you know this is who we're hiring and
then six months later they hear you know
when you were 20 years old you got drunk
or stupid or something and then they're
firing you like oh you're not the person
we hired it's like why are you making
assumptions to begin with
obviously i'm a human being i've went up

(33:57):
and down you know on the roller coaster
of stupidity everybody has but we have
assumptions like oh no perfect it's like
you were saying about that person you
passed on the street like you know how
could you break up with me i was the
perfect girlfriend it's like
that's not that's not how that works
people change people are always changing
and and so many relationships it's like

(34:17):
you're not the person i thought you were
exactly
you got it i'm not the person you
thought i was i never was why were you
thinking i was a certain person outside
of trying to validate what you thought
you needed
yeah
exactly uh
i am
something i wanted to ask you about and
you talked about you know not needing

(34:39):
psychedelics to get to these
realizations and i certainly see that
more clearly
now um
but i have you know along my sort of
process of getting into all these things
over the last probably been i don't know
four years or so pretty much since
right around when i graduated college um

(35:01):
and
i've been
meditating pretty much regularly
for all of that time and more recently
i feel like i don't
it's like i don't need to
almost and i'm curious
because a lot of people talk about
you know even someone today someone
commented
on my most recent video about how you

(35:24):
know nothing matters basically do what
you want this is all game happening for
no one for no reason whatsoever so like
stop taking it so seriously or take it
seriously it doesn't matter like do
whatever you want someone
said uh like we we came here
for reasons like you'll see soon and i i
commented came from where

(35:45):
and they're like
you'll like you'll see soon or
then eventually it came to we came from
source energy
and we will
return there but we always
will be and i'm like i see what you're
saying there but i feel like
you're kind of missing the idea that
you're everyone

(36:06):
you're clinging to this idea that you're
you
that lasts
forever separate from
everyone else all the time everywhere
forever
and they never responded to that one but
yeah
no because you're you're touching on the
uncomfortable bit and this is it's funny
uh an old friend of mine has been

(36:27):
listening to our podcast and uh
at the end of episode one i said
something along the lines of hey that
was a great episode we managed to get
into some some really good conversations
without getting into the uncomfortable
bits and of course he wrote to me he's
like what are the uncomfortable bits
and it's like okay well it's all fun and
games until you realize you're all that
is
right and and that's it is that once you

(36:49):
get there things start changing the
conversation starts changing and that's
that's where the spiritual crowd often
doesn't want to go because
i would rather believe
there is a journey i would rather
believe that there is a source that i'm
going to you know reunite with that
there is
a separation between me and everything
else so it doesn't have to just be me

(37:10):
that's that's all it is and and
you you kind of touched on that in in
one of your previous trips it really is
just me
in everything and that gets super
uncomfortable at first and like there's
a lot that goes with that the entire
emotional spectrum from loneliness to
aloneness is in that because it's
eternal it's the it's the the idea that
you are all that is forever

(37:32):
and so
when we're having that experience it's
very jarring when we're used to thinking
of ourselves as me as opposed to
everybody else it feels very lonely
and then after a while when you're there
you start realizing this actually
doesn't change a thing
this doesn't change a single thing
except i don't have to be as afraid
right and i can love more freely because

(37:54):
i'm loving myself
and so it changes the emotional spectrum
of the experience that we're having but
at first it seems super uncomfortable to
admit you're all that is because we're
used to thinking of it in terms of
loneliness and aloneness but it doesn't
change a thing it doesn't change a thing
it just means you are so vast you don't
have to worry about being alone right

(38:14):
like there's so many different varieties
of you
you can avoid it for eternity go nuts
right or you can look it straight up
look at it straight in the face and be
free
yeah it cuts through
all those ideas that like there there is
nothing that can go wrong there is
nothing
to worry about name list off some things
to worry about and i'll tell you things

(38:35):
that you know you don't have to and the
idea of
the
eternally
eternal now us
being for
eternity it's scary
if you're clinging to an idea that
you're
just you or even just the idea of

(38:57):
eternity
is is a scary idea but it's not what is
what is
is just
now yeah
right that's it it's always now it's
always now because everything that could
exist is within now and it's all within
our awareness which is why you can
imagine pretty much anything can't you
right and that it's all clues to exactly

(39:19):
the reality of the situation that
all of existence
exists within the void
that predated the big bang or at least
that we look at as the big bang all of
existence all the potential that could
exist within duality existed within that
void that was nothing in everything
well that was our awareness
that's exactly where we still are we're
still in the void we just perceive time

(39:41):
right like for me to be sitting in this
office right now for this for this
experience to exist as a as a present
moment
my awareness goes but it had to come
from somewhere
right and so immediately all the moments
that could exist to lead to here
exist within time and space and all the
moments that could lead from here to my

(40:02):
inevitable death exist within time and
space because i perceive duality so i
can't just perceive the existence of one
moment without my brain immediately
immediately going but there had to be a
before and after
right because that's the experience of
duality so everybody's talks about the
big bang like it happened
and we're somewhere in the process of it

(40:22):
happening but it's hap it never happened
we have the perception of it happening
because it's within the void it's within
the potential of whatever could be
right so our brain creates time our mind
creates time but every moment is
existent forever
forever and so our entire perspective of

(40:43):
the big bang is just based on on our
awareness going no this couldn't just
exist on its own it had to have a
progression there had to be something
that led to it and that's our history in
a nutshell is just
the logical steps to make this moment
happen in existence
i don't know if i'm quite there with you

(41:05):
that was gonna be something that i
wanted to ask you about was
the big bang and
i understand now
when you were talking about you know
before you know what was before
existence and before what happened it's
like what do you mean it's it's
existence it what could what could be

(41:26):
before non-existence like
it is exist
yeah right but the idea of
you know the void and the big bang
and
all of those
things like
it's just a separation perceptually
right like everything is one and how do

(41:46):
you divide one into everything right and
so we perceive time as the the sequence
of events that would divide one into
everything
right but all of
all of those things exist within
everything we just conceptually divided
it we've experientially divided it as
well perceptually and experientially and
conceptually we've divided the world but

(42:08):
the world is still or the universe is
still
all in everything in one moment
whether we perceive it that way or not
and so that's kind of the fun part is
that we can experience time even though
time doesn't exist we can experience
space and separation even though those
things don't exist
yeah
it's it's it's a weird thing that's why

(42:30):
the vedics used to always say or the
vedas used to always say you know i am
that
you were that we are all that they
didn't even give it a name we're just
that
yeah yeah i i
i'm getting i'm getting that
with
with the big
the beginning
the void that you're talking about the

(42:51):
big bang
all of which are terrible ways to put it
it's just all over yeah
yeah like
i know it's i want to say like
where'd it start
but
all possible okay so this is what's
interesting right is um in genesis
it says in the beginning right well the

(43:11):
original translation was in a beginning
which i find very interesting right
all possible beginnings and endings
exist from the current moment right like
that's the whole thing is that if you
had a story that was just
a reality became aware of itself and
then reality ceased being aware of
itself that story exists right but then

(43:33):
if you drew out that story and you made
it longer and longer and longer and you
ended up you know reality became so
disconnected from the awareness of
itself that it started creating other
little parts of itself and interacting
with them and those little parts made a
story and they get more and more complex
over time and that complexity bred an
entire reality that that being was now
existing within separate from itself

(43:53):
perceptually only and so that huge story
suddenly exists because it has to within
the potential of what could be
so our story on this planet is just one
of those potentials the entire story of
this universe is just one of those
potentials which is why science is
getting more to the multiple universe
theory or the multiverse theory right is
that all different universes could

(44:14):
possibly exist yeah because all
subjective experiences between the
observer and the observed must exist and
the universe just facilitates all of
those existing within what we deem to be
time and space
but
but why must
they exist because they're possible

(44:35):
right all possibilities within the
spectrum of duality
exist within what is
right we just experience the expression
of those possibilities so we we
experience what those possibilities
would be like and we take it very
seriously as though it's real
because it feels totally real because of
course it is absolutely real

(44:56):
in its experience but the perception we
have of it as being real is slightly
askew yeah i'm having a time i'm just
gonna say having a tough time wrapping
my head or mind around that but here's a
good good example um
say the lord of the rings have you ever
read the lord of the rings
i've seen

(45:17):
i don't think i've seen all the movies
but i've seen
maybe two the lord of the rings is an
incredible work
of of writing because
the author not only wrote the story in
stunning detail but created languages
full articulable languages in that story
and that that was one of the reasons
it's so amazing well everything within

(45:38):
that story maybe not all the details
because of course everything in our
experience is open to interpretation
happened somewhere at some time on some
planet in some in space and time
somewhere because all things that can
happen
will happen somewhere at some time the
universe is far too big for it to not
happen the other thing is that time is
far too long for it to not happen

(45:59):
because we look at the universe as being
16 and a half billion years old right
and then what the universe ends
and then what starts over again how many
big bangs have there been right and if
they're always in the now if every
experience and every one of those
incarnations of the universe is always
always happening now then all of those
incarnations exist in the here and now

(46:19):
which is why i say everything that can
exist within the now does in some
expression of time and space
okay i think i'm getting closer it's
difficult even
even the idea of everything that can
happen
must happen
in the eternal now like
somewhere at some point at some time so

(46:42):
so what i mean is like there is an
andrew who at this moment is wearing a
green sweater
in the now instead of the swear sweater
that you're wearing okay
that doesn't exist in this moment that
we're that we're experiencing right so
the universe could come and go andrew
could die the planet could blow up
everything gets sucked back into
nothingness and it expands again maybe

(47:03):
the next time around
another andrew looks almost identical
has almost identical experiences decides
to wear a green shirt today and in that
moment of now
it exists
but we don't see it now but it's still
in the now it's always in the now and so
that possibility has to eventually
express itself in eternity

(47:24):
eternity's goes on forever everything
that can exist within eternity will
eventually that's that's the whole point
that's why space is so big
so it's almost like we're just
experiencing
everything
i was going to say an expression
of
it

(47:45):
yeah one possibility one because it's
like
in the eternal now
but it's almost like not
not this
now
but it is because it's always this now
right
yeah think about it so the you that
existed five minutes ago if we were to
rewind this video and go back five
minutes was in the now right and the you

(48:08):
that is looking at me slightly different
than that person is also looking at me
in the now and the only thing that
separates the existence of those two
nows which are always in the present
always existing
is the process that you have viewed
happening from one to the other but they
both exist in now
um
okay

(48:28):
all right
all right i think i'm getting
it's like um it's looking at like
looking at a movie strip like a reel
all of those frames exist
but you can only see one of them at a
time
they all exist
that's the point the full movie from
start to finish already exists but you
can only view one frame at a time

(48:52):
that's the entirety of creation
everything that could be already is
but we get the view of one thing at a
time
from a perspective of separation it's an
amazing thing it's an incredible gift if
you think about it god
was able to fool itself
into thinking it's not god
so it's almost like

(49:13):
i imagine
if we were able to take a step back or
go into
you know if time is the fourth dimension
we were able to go into the fifth
dimension
almost like see everything and it's like
we are
three-dimensional things
existing in a four-dimensional

(49:33):
universe or
experiencing a four-dimensional universe
of
which one's dominant
are you the awareness are you what is
first and human second or are you a
human first and what is second and and
that's that's very much we keep coming
back to this right because that's that's
the religious thing

(49:54):
i don't want to be all it is
right i want to be a human with a
journey
right i i don't want to come to full
responsibility of being the awareness of
everything i don't want to be you know
responsible for this essentially that
that's all it is you know i want to hold
on to my fears and my concerns i want to
hold on to my petty jealousies because
the alternative is coming into alignment

(50:16):
with this and looking at what i've
created which at the moment
is kind of a [ __ ] nightmare
the world that we've made is so
disconnected from what we're talking
about because we've been avoiding it for
so long
we keep waiting for god to come save us
and the entire time we're sitting here
having a drink waiting for it

(50:37):
like yeah
all you have to do is go out and do
something and we know this we know this
collectively there's more and more
people are like we can change the world
with the world we can fix the climate we
can fix the system
but we have to do it and then you have
another portion of society's like no no
there are people in charge to do that
it's not me
it's not me i'm not responsible and

(50:57):
that's that's that is the next evolution
of our species if we make it that far is
to realize it's always us
it's always us there's no there's no
passing the buck if we're going to
destroy the planet that's on us we can't
blame others
yeah
but
also like so

(51:17):
so how far do you think
you go i mean i was going to say how far
should you go but there's you know there
is
not
no should
how far can you go
in the sense of
i guess if you want to dedicate
every minute of every second of your day

(51:40):
to
you know trying to do something you can
um you see i look at this it's like we
were saying earlier right we embody the
universe when we get out of the way
and and that's it right like the more i
i get out of my way the more i realize
the impact i have on people i talk to
has changed and then i see them carry
that ripple with them and and and affect

(52:01):
other people but it's never through me
trying to convince them of anything
right so it's always just allowing
things to happen as they should and and
if you look at society like we were
saying the other day about crutches
street lights and stuff like that
we're holding back our own evolution by
putting you know child locks on
everything we're we're we're baby
proofing everything and as a result we

(52:23):
don't grow
okay so it's
because i got as we talk i think i
talked about
episode one or two this idea of you know
uh how can i be so happy if there's so
much suffering blah blah but it's almost
like it just has to come
from within and we are

(52:44):
the universe embodied as
you know
different
things sort of different but you know
perceived as different totally and
if we
were not going to
do anything by going outside like we are
but we aren't going to do anything by
going outside
of ourselves and and trying

(53:06):
to
you know almost like
force
that
to happen that change
as opposed to just being
that change that ripples
like a change you want to see there's no
control in it right like that that
that's the problem and see
it's like what people do when

(53:27):
oh i'm suffering through a lot of
overthinking i'm going through a lot of
anxiety or depression
i need to meditate
and it's like okay that that will help
that that will help but
meditation itself isn't going to solve
the problem it's just going to kind of
delay the consequence what the problem
is is your mentality that you're
attached to right so going through the

(53:48):
motions
is going to help a little bit but it's
not going to address
the infection that's underneath that
band-aid right and and the same is true
for like what we're doing in the world
like we're trying to uh sequester more
carbon in the ground by encouraging hemp
to be grown pretty much worldwide which
is a great idea for climate change
does nothing about the capitalistic
system that's going to continue continue

(54:10):
to
lobby for pollution it's going to
continue to lobby for things that allow
those corporations to cut corners and
save money and and continue to pollute
so
as much as portions of society are like
yeah we can fix this by doing this thing
we are not in fact addressing the
mentality that's going to continue to
cause the problem right it's like if we

(54:31):
were to suddenly stop driving cars today
all oil-based cars we just stopped
driving them it's not going to take long
for a corporation to come up with an
alternative that's just as profitable
and has the same environmental impacts
in one way or another i mean lithium
batteries are brutal right for the
environment so the problem is the
mentality that we're operating out of

(54:51):
for everything else but we keep trying
to address the things we're doing
instead of why we're doing them
so
yeah so i i
sort of asked before but like with
meditation
it's
a lot of things that i
watch especially when i've been i've

(55:12):
been watching a ton of stuff about
psychedelics a lot of youtube videos and
reading stuff and whatnot and
a lot of them a lot of people say like
oh you know it pairs well with
meditation
and the idea of meditation
sort of being away
through
everything and

(55:32):
i was yeah i was questioning like
it's just
sitting there like becoming aware
you know the idea of becoming aware that
you are
you know thinking so much or even just
bringing awareness which i think
it's almost like i think it can be a
good
first step
in a process but it's not

(55:53):
this end-all be-all like it's almost
become this fad
that's like oh meditate to
improve your life and all of this and
it's like you know alan watts talks a
lot about how it's not
it's if you're using it as a tool to
become it's just
setting aside

(56:14):
time to be present which you could be
all the time without it also so it's not
necessary like nothing is necessary
i don't meditate
yeah i didn't think i figured i didn't i
don't meditate and by by
i don't meditate i mean i don't

(56:36):
go out of my way to sit down
close my eyes try i just don't whereas
to me meditation is just non-attachment
to the flow like it's just watching it
without any judgment without any
analysis it's just watching it without
opinion
and as soon as you're in that state and
it's just flowing by you can be doing
anything i used to love shoveling
ditches at one point when i was younger

(56:57):
i had a job shoveling ditches and i
found that to be one of the most
meditative things i'd ever done in my
life because it was just going through
the motions watching it go by
right but not all meditation is
meditation i mean and and that's
unfortunately true i've met a lot of of
clients in the past who said you know i
have this great meditation that i do and
i immediately i i'm immediately
uncomfortable it's like what do you mean

(57:19):
and it's like well it's this process i
go through this this guided meditation
and it teaches me to envision it this
way and i'm just like jesus no wonder
you're still suffering because all
you're doing is creating more stuff
you're still in the driver's seat you're
still in control now you're visualizing
a certain feeling now you're
cherry-picking
instead of just experiencing where you
are and what is happening you're

(57:42):
superimposing your preferences again and
that's that's not meditation
but we convince ourselves it is because
it feels good in the short term it feels
very calming to imagine yourself as a
lotus blossom emerging into the sun
until you leave your house and you go
into the street and somebody's like get
the [ __ ] out of the way
where's your lotus blossom there right

(58:03):
like you need to be able to hear that
guy and go
right still disconnected doesn't mean
anything about me he's probably just
having a bad day yeah boom moment of
meditation it had nothing to do with
envisioning the sun or a growing tree or
anything it was just non-attachment
i find it
kind of funny when
someone's uh i don't know if i saw her

(58:24):
in a movie or like real life or
something but someone's sitting
and you know meditating semi in public
but in a quieter place
and then someone is like noisy nearby
and they're like shut up you're ruining
my meditation it's like yeah what
that's like
exactly i think you're missing something
there i uh i had a friend once who who

(58:48):
and this is where it really became
obvious to me i was in i don't know i
was about 26 27 and uh
he would take himself so seriously that
he would have a meditation time
in the day and if you try it like i was
walking by his house one day i went oh
i'm just gonna stop in and say hey his
girlfriend comes to the door can't
disturb him he's in his meditation time

(59:11):
like
for what
like
obviously so nothing disturbs him so
this shouldn't bother him at all right
that's the point but and he was very
upset about it but it's because like oh
i need this time it's like come on like
it doesn't have to be another facet of
your ego it doesn't have to be another
arduous journey this is not a practice

(59:31):
of i'm climbing everest it's a practice
of realizing you are everest like
there's nothing to climb
and it's it i think it just reinforces
because these are things i'm
i'm loving these discussions because
we're breaking through my own habitual
patterns i'm very much someone who has
always had you know routines and ideas
of you know having a very structured

(59:54):
to-do list for my day
and you know going through doing
manifestations doing a meditation
and being consistent about it and
the idea that it's it almost breeds this
idea that there or this illusion like
with your friend that there's somewhere
to get and they're doing this thing so
that you know they have to do it for you

(01:00:16):
know i meditated for a year and now i'm
here and i'm a changed person and i'm
i've realized that now is all there ever
is it's like well it always was and you
going through you didn't need that
and that's what i'm literally as we
speak realizing is because i've sort of
there have been times especially when i
was very attached to like meditating i

(01:00:39):
was like oh i have to meditate and then
i'll i'll be busy
one morning and then i'll miss it and
i'll like feel bad
about it i'll be like oh i didn't
meditate like oh am i gonna be able to
handle everything that comes at me today
like i don't know i find sometimes that
when i don't meditate then i that i
can't you know take on the day and i'll
react certain ways because oh shoot why

(01:01:02):
did i react that way oh right i didn't
meditate this morning it's like
now i'm realizing i don't
need that it's like something you need
until you realize that you don't it's
kind of same with suffering it's like
suffering is necessary until you realize
that it isn't and
i think it's just the same
yeah yeah
it is i mean that's the only thing is

(01:01:23):
that i still use my identity i have no
problems using my identity hi i'm ray
no problem at all um
i don't take any of it seriously i i
know it's it's just a tool it's a way of
communicating it's it's a very
convenient way of of trying to
communicate you know concepts and
languages and jokes and all the fun
stuff that goes with duality because

(01:01:44):
again
if there was no perception of division
there would be no humor right because
humor is almost always at someone else's
expense
right so
all of the experience that we have
within division and duality is a
beautiful thing until you get caught up
in it until you start thinking oh no no
my my interpretation is what is since

(01:02:08):
it's not it's just what you're seeing
right now
right it's just it's just the facet that
you're becoming aware of as you turn
that that crystal around and you look at
all the different angles right like that
that's all interpretation is that's all
perception is but
we tend to think what i think is real
right if somebody asked me recently it's
like
they're trying to get this they're

(01:02:28):
really trying to understand like how are
we all the same thing i don't understand
how we're all the same awareness it's
like right because you think you are
what you think you are
and
that sounds simplistic because it is
unfortunately as simplistic as it gets
so long as you think your thoughts can
reflect truth

(01:02:50):
you cannot see unity
you just can't experience it right
because you're in the way whatever
you're doing you're thinking about unity
you're thinking about a concept you're
thinking about you know which is always
dualistic if you're thinking about unity
then you're thinking about separation by
contrast you're thinking right the only

(01:03:11):
way to experience unity is to be
unity which is not a state of thought
it's not a state of anything it's just
what is it's just getting out of the way
and going oh right i'm i'm not separate
from any of this you know i'm not there
is no division outside of the one that
i'm convinced or or rather committed to
perceiving
definitely it brings me back to the idea

(01:03:33):
that
there is
i feel like as humans we get caught up
in this idea of adding to ourselves and
becoming something and being in on this
journey and this process and
and
i think above all is
the only journey should be
you know realizing that there isn't one

(01:03:53):
but also
that there is
nothing
that
like the all these ideas of that you
think you're adding to yourself it's
more so
just
peel them back
is i want to say better but
will bring you close

(01:04:14):
clearer i will say clearer that i will
say it's not better this is the one
thing i always worry about when in terms
of spiritual conversations is that we
start talking about levels
levels of awareness levels of
consciousness levels of spirituality and
i said this in one of my very early in
one of my earliest tech talk videos it's
like
there are no levels there are only
directions towards yourself and away

(01:04:35):
from yourself
that's it that's others there are no
levels like everybody is always what is
and they always have the capacity to to
realize it in a moment just like that
sometimes it's a near-death experience
sometimes it's psychedelic sometimes
it's just losing everything
but it's always there
always

(01:04:56):
it's just a matter of
letting go of our fight
you know and and that's that's why
faith is such an interesting concept to
me like i said i was i was raised roman
catholic as were you and we were drilled
with this idea of faith
over and over and over again faith and
humility
right
and
never never made any sense like i got it

(01:05:18):
as a christian i'm like yeah okay faith
you know everything's gonna be fine
god's got my back um but then i
immediately had preconceptions of what
that meant i i immediately thought to
myself well this is what that means to
be fine and i'm gonna pray for that and
so
praying is you know for a certain end
result is still control faith in an end
result is still control right so it's

(01:05:38):
not actually faith so you're not
actually being present and of course how
could you be if you're having faith in
an external being that doesn't exist so
now you've left yourself again you're
back in identity
right and so you've immediately just
lowered your sense of awareness and
what's odd is that all that happens when
we raise our sense of awareness is that

(01:05:59):
we're just becoming more aware what is
always the case that we're not separate
right so you immediately know you're
losing awareness if you're starting to
think about yourself
yeah
yeah and all of these things come back
to
you know any struggles it's like
you know we're talking about thoughts
but also just the idea of who you are

(01:06:21):
which is i guess a thought too but it's
the identification and
the realization like oh i want to think
everything's
unity like i am
that person too and it's like you're
still holding on to this idea that you
are
this person or you know you're this
spirit experiencing a person or

(01:06:44):
something separate and it's it's just
it's just what is that's right it's like
always the danger there is that you end
up projecting
your view of yourself into that person
right like so you start expecting how
you view your intentions to be reflected
through their actions and and that's
when you end up with expectations and

(01:07:06):
frustrations like well i would never act
that way it's like you would
in that situation in that person's life
but you're so caught up in thinking of
yourself through the lens of your
current life
that you can't see that right so it's
it's again negation it's getting past
the idea that you would do anything in
particular that you would act in any way
in particular that allows you to see

(01:07:27):
yourself in that person's eyes not as a
conceptual thing but an actual moment of
recognition where you can feel where
they're coming from what their
intentions are and where they're going
but it's never conceptual that's why i
find life coaching and psychology to be
so so funny and and yet so totally
wrong in its direction because they will
only they will almost teach you a

(01:07:48):
structure to help people with it's like
oh if this is happening go back to this
this is probably coming from this this
this but they don't teach you to feel
that in the moment they don't teach you
how to be present with that person to
get your mind out of the way and to
allow that that spontaneous intelligence
that we were talking about embodying to
actually act right because in in a
coaching session as with in a friendship

(01:08:10):
or relationship or marriage or anything
your relationship in that moment is
going to be more or less beneficial
based on how present you both are
so if we're not teaching that to
psychologists if we're not teaching that
to therapists how to be present then all
we're doing is arming them with another
intellectual idea of themselves and
they're going into these sessions where

(01:08:31):
they could be helping to promote unity
and they're creating division only as a
result of the mentality that they're
holding on to so it's
it's so sad that we haven't gotten this
point yet
like this and conversations that have
been happening like this for a long time
are going to continue to change that you
know in the same way that
um carl jung

(01:08:52):
affected alcoholics anonymous right the
founder of alcoholics anonymous went and
talked to carl jung when he was
developing that system and it was carl
jung's entire uh insight about the
collective consciousness that we aren't
divided that allowed them to realize one
of the last steps in the 12-step process
is the acknowledgement of a higher power
that you are part of something greater

(01:09:14):
right and so these insights are are
changing
our society but it's like you were
saying earlier it's like we almost start
to focus on
on the
the actions that we're taking instead of
the mentality that those actions came
from
right it's like i'm going through the
12-step process it's like right but if
you could find the mentality of the
person who created that 12-step process

(01:09:35):
in yourself
then the 12-step process is irrelevant
you see the whole picture now it's just
going through the stage they're going
through the the process right so it's
always just awareness a one-step process
awareness
it's so hard to explain but that's what
it is
yeah it's almost like with those
processes and if you're not

(01:09:55):
coming from this place of
unity you're just giving out a bunch of
fish as opposed to you know teaching
people how to fish that old god saying
it's like you're giving them you gave
them you know 10 or 20 fish and you know
something starts coming up and they're
like oh [ __ ] which fish is it uh it's
that one that i'm supposed to eat in
this situation it's like they

(01:10:17):
they don't realize they can just learn
how
to fish and then
they never have to remember which fish
to have they don't have to hold on to
any fish they can just catch a new one
each and every time
exactly and that's that's ultimately you
know the epitome of martial artists
mentality as well right is that it's

(01:10:37):
like bruce lee said you know no form as
form it's you know you are in the moment
and as much as all the structures and
all the movements you've learned in the
past might might influence what you're
going to do
as soon as you make an assumption about
what's going to happen you're no longer
in that moment you you've cut your
ability to adapt to it in half at least
and so it's always going into the

(01:10:59):
situation realizing i don't have control
i have influence if i'm present
and that was one thing my sifu he really
drilled that home to me it was like you
know the more you're thinking about the
outcome the more likely it is you're
going to lose this fight
because you're not in it
yeah
yeah it's like with
almost anything like that the you know
the test analogy you know having half of

(01:11:21):
your focus on the outcome of the test
how you're going to do and half of it on
the test itself that's
you know or the archery or
or anything it's
it always just comes back to being there
being
in it always not
you know focused on any other
out potential outcome what might be it's

(01:11:42):
like we're super imposing a narrative
over our experience like we're
experiencing what is and then we're like
no no no that's not what i want to see i
want to see this and so we superimpose a
story over what we're doing and then it
changes the experience as a result
right like i've had jobs where
if i just went to work and i did my job
i would have learned something about

(01:12:02):
myself that day
instead i went to work and bitched about
my job
and so all i learned about
was complaining about my job all i
learned about was the experience that i
was superimposing on what was
so now instead of just learning from the
experience i had to learn that i was
superimposing an experience and to get
out of the way to get back to the lesson

(01:12:22):
that i could have been learning to begin
with right so it's always just adding
distortion
right we just put a story in there and
it changes
like
like clinging to any belief precludes
you from
understanding its opposite or believing
in anything you know cuts you off from
anything that may come from being open

(01:12:44):
to that
idea or belief or concept or structure
not being the truth and
it it's like it never
is no matter what there is no
belief
that is ultimate truth because ultimate
truth is not a belief so it couldn't be
it just is it just is always forever

(01:13:07):
it's not a concept it's not a concept
that's the thing i i repeat this in my
comment section constantly because it's
really it's the crux
concepts aren't true
concepts are not reality they can point
to reality they can indicate reality
they can try and describe reality but
the description is never the described
and and until we get that we get really

(01:13:29):
focused on the description we get really
focused on the described because it's
easier
right like it's easier to talk about a
building
than to understand how it's built
yeah yeah
for sure and i had a question you
brought up with like a a stuff in the
12th step i'm not familiar with the

(01:13:50):
process i've heard some things you know
even just videos i make people are like
oh this is sounds like some of the steps
from aaa and
it makes sense that carl young you know
that i get that now how that's
correlated but the idea at the end with
the higher power
i've always like been curious about that
and i've sort of

(01:14:11):
seen it with the idea that
we like we are that
higher power
always and it's almost like we just have
so many [ __ ] layers
that we
have forgotten or don't realize it or
think that we're not or think that it's
something else
but we don't want i think that it's us

(01:14:32):
yeah or like
i feel like with that being you know
12-step
sort it's almost like i feel like a lot
of people could believe
in a separate
other power and that seems a little bit
you know so concerning
it it can be i think it's important to
remember that the 12-step process or aa
or any anonymous group for example

(01:14:54):
they're designed to
take people out of a really really like
low energy state they're they're
designed to try and pull people out of
out of a certain hell um
they're it's it's 12 steps to being free
of the attachment to the addiction but
it's not necessarily 12 steps to being
free and so
you can look to a higher power and that
might help you

(01:15:15):
see yourself as part of everything else
you can see more of a purpose in your
life or you can see more meaning in what
you do
but
it's just as dangerous to get stuck on
that to get stuck on the idea that there
is that higher power so the next stage
beyond that is to recognizing that that
any division you perceive between
yourself and that higher power is still
that existent identity that's still that
existent idea of yourself which

(01:15:36):
ultimately was the reason you fell into
alcoholism which ultimately was the
reason that you fell into despair so
it's always just the process of slowly
shedding that right whereas the 12-step
process they don't take you all the way
to the end where it's like now you're
everything right they take you to the
end where it's like now you don't have
to worry about going out in public and
drinking yourself to death because you

(01:15:57):
you have a sense of meaning and purpose
okay now go on and carry on on your own
right so it's not meant to be the
full-on thing it's kind of like um
deepak chopra he wrote this book how to
know god and it's a good book i
definitely recommend reading it it's got
some really interesting um some stories
in there and some anecdotal evidence and
some historical context about the

(01:16:18):
various levels of awareness from going
to being separate to recognizing that
you and god are one
and it does a great job all the way
through through to the end and then he
stops before
the inevitable recognition that there is
no division at all because we don't want
to have that conversation we really
don't you'll notice like spirituality

(01:16:40):
will get to a certain level of depth
and then it will almost stop for the
sake of continuing to perpetuate its own
practice because as you said after a
certain point of awareness
all practices become pointless or rather
they they are no longer the point
right they're just practices so if you
you can practice meditating you could

(01:17:01):
practice kung fu you can practice darts
either one is going to bring you to a
more refined state of awareness if
you're able to use it that way if you're
able to be in that state of awareness
when you're doing it instead of using it
to get you there
it's the card before the horse yeah yeah
it's literally anything like you can
create a podcast and be fully there and

(01:17:24):
that's it you can you know walk around
for
15 days straight and that's
it you can
you know try to start drinking more
water and if you're there when you're
drinking the water like that's it you
know it's like it's literally
doing
anything
whatsoever it doesn't you know you don't

(01:17:45):
need
anything because what is is and that's
it and that's like the end of it so i'm
like with deepak chopra like with his
book did he
do that in a way for people to realize
it on their own or because he wanted to
you know
make sure that people you know didn't
get there so they kept needing

(01:18:06):
or is it just something he doesn't want
to see is that as far as he was able to
go based on what he was prepared to
accept right it's like in the matrix um
the the oracle says we can never see
past decisions that we're not prepared
to make
right that's kind of it it's like it
makes you wonder
why like how so many of these spiritual

(01:18:26):
teachings or so many of the these these
teachers or these avatars
stopped at certain points right and it's
because that was as far as they were
comfortable because
i i'll say and then you know i'm not
putting myself on a pedestal by any
means but i'm old and i've been at this
for 20 years and it feels like an
eternity
and every time

(01:18:48):
or rather regularly there are moments
where i am once again faced with the
realization that i'm still holding on to
an idea of myself
and so
i have to let it go i have to do it and
i don't have to i choose to i choose to
because to me it's it's what drives me
and it's not because i want to get
anywhere but because i can it's fun why

(01:19:09):
not and and i enjoy seeing the the the
ripples around me
but i mean at the end of the day
not everybody's going to continue to do
that and and in my life
i have i've seen many many people just
kind of fall away because
it was the idea i don't want to go that
far i don't want to see that i don't i
don't want to let that go i want to

(01:19:30):
continue thinking that you know a
partner is going to give me value or i
want to continue thinking that focusing
on the future is going to get rid of my
anxiety i'm just not prepared you know i
actually had somebody on tik tok it was
great i was this young guy uh six months
ago and i made a video and uh
and he responded he was quite angry
about it and it was because you know i
was i was talking about being one and

(01:19:51):
blah blah and so we ended up in this
conversation and went back and forth for
like half a day and by the end of it he
went
so what you're saying
is that
my idea of myself is just an idea that
the reality behind it is that i'm an
extension of everything and he stopped
and he looked at his screen he went

(01:20:11):
i don't think i'm ready to see that yet
and it was about as honest an answer as
i could ever hope
but the seed was there it was planted
the conversation happened and it
wouldn't have had i got defensive if i
was trying to defend a certain idea or a
concept or an idea of myself i would
have been offended when he's like well
yeah i think you're full of [ __ ] it's

(01:20:32):
like yeah i might be probably let's work
through it right because we can
and so
at least if we can get to a point where
we have that conversation where people
can clearly say
i'm not quite ready for that yet that's
a lot better than going no there's
nothing there
right that that changes things
significantly and and

(01:20:52):
and again as with everything because
we're gonna have to wrap this up soon um
it's a one-step process it's always just
the one step process of allowing
yourself to be aware and and the more
you do that the more it changes
everything
everything yeah so much
it's been
pretty

(01:21:12):
awesome
i i love
this and i
the the idea of it being scary is i
don't even
i don't know it's not
at all it's it's like more exciting than
anything i've ever
experienced
in
my life and
yeah it's like i find myself even you

(01:21:33):
know the last couple weeks like i always
some and a lot of times i will you know
listen to an audiobook listen to music
walking around but i found myself more
and more not listening to not even
having headphones and walking around new
york and i just listen to everything and
i'm just aware
of what it is and i'm like wow this is
all me yeah that's pretty cool it's

(01:21:55):
pretty cool place existence becomes
fulfilling as it always was if we
allowed it to be right like i don't
people have asked like have you read the
spiritual book that just came out i
don't read spiritual books you know i
know i don't i don't listen to any of
that stuff anymore unless it pops up
like if it's on on my for new page or if
it's on youtube or something oh and alan

(01:22:15):
watts clips like sweet
but
i don't i don't need it i don't look for
it
it's just there if if i run across it
right because
i'm the point
you're the point right this this moment
here now
is the entirety of existence if we can
allow ourselves to get out of the way
and witness it for what it is but as

(01:22:37):
long as we're we're convinced that i am
what i think i am right then i'm not
following that one-step process of you
know questioning that until i become
aware
of what i actually am which is not a
concept
yeah and clint like all those things you
know spiritual books you know speeches
anything like that it's almost like if

(01:22:58):
they
got it and they're expressing it they're
all saying the same exact thing just
doing their best
to leave seeds for people who have
you know have ears to hear and so you're
just listening to the same thing over
and over and i've heard some alan watts
clips that i've heard many times before

(01:23:19):
in speeches and it makes
so much sense now
than before
because i had all these ideas of what
things were and who i was
i was like i mean it sounds good like it
kind of makes me feel good but it's like
ah what's he really saying it's like oh
he's just saying the same thing over and

(01:23:40):
over in different ways figuring out
different ways to say it and it's all
the same and him and everyone else who
has ever
understood that and attempted to express
it in
language in words which is not an easy
thing to do
obviously look at us right we're doing
the exact same thing but

(01:24:00):
it's interesting to me
that because all there is is you
then it's always been you
trying to express this to yourself
always
and
we always are if we if we open our ears
and listen the lessons are everywhere
like we we learn it in everything you
can stare at a tree growing and learn

(01:24:21):
all you need to know about your own
nature if you have the ears to hear if
you have your eyes wide open right and
and that's it is that
you don't need a girl you don't need a
structure they're all nice and they can
teach you things sure but there's always
the danger of becoming attached
right and so just keep focusing on that
one-step process right i'm so excited

(01:24:41):
man i i i love these conversations and i
love
the the pace with which you are growing
it's so
it's so interesting and um fun for me
because as you said you're going through
your own process while we have this
conversation but of course so am i
right like i'm walking away from these
podcasts refining the things that i go

(01:25:02):
through i'm walking away from these
going right
yeah i'm still crazy but i'm not the
only one you know that kind of thing
right like
it's it's encouraging because the
conversation
is really all we need to do it's just we
just need to keep having this
conversation and the more people that do
with the intention of just having the
conversation of just you know practicing
that one-step process again right the

(01:25:24):
more we're going to continue to gain
awareness not just individually but
collectively which is also also
individually
you know
so we're gonna wrap up episode three
because uh it's been almost an hour and
a half now and as everybody who listens
to this knows we tend to keep talking um
we do have a upcoming social anxiety

(01:25:46):
workshop on october 19th you can find
the details on social media or of course
on our website and as well you can find
some more exclusive content and video
content on our patreon page for only
five dollars a month and uh i will be
away
going camping as of tomorrow i will be
gone until next weekend so you may not
see much activity from me online but uh

(01:26:07):
definitely contact andrew if you have
any questions or or if you want to just
challenge where he is right now because
you know that's probably the best thing
for him
definitely yeah and feel free you know i
think youtube comments are probably the
best
way to reach either of us directly i
tend to respond to pretty much any and
every youtube comment i get it's a lot

(01:26:28):
more difficult to do that on other
platforms but if you do have questions
about this things you want us to expand
on
please comment them down below
excellent thank you so much everyone we
will see you next week for episode 4.

(01:27:13):
you

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S.1 Ep.3: The One Step Process

Episode Transcript

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

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S.1 Ep.3: The One Step Process

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