S.1 Ep.4: Going Back and Forth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode four of
duelist community i playing the part of
answer today
and i am ray speaking for the trees
because i came back from a week in the
forest and i feel very much like the
lorax right now though i'm trying not to
give in to opinion in general um i will
admit it's it's difficult to see the

(00:21):
realities of uh how
humanity is
integrating or rather not integrating
with nature and the reality of even how
much things can change in a 17-year time
span for example because i went camping
very close to the place where i had
lived in the forest for eight months in
a shack that i built myself with my

(00:41):
girlfriend at the time and we went back
to where we had built that shack and the
forest that we had been in it wasn't
anywhere close to town it was a good
walk to get to our shack through the
bush it wasn't friendly territory at all
but there's like one or two logging
roads going through there now the shack
itself has been torn down it looks like
somebody had tried to replace it

(01:01):
sometime along the way and it's just
amazing like in 17 years
all of a sudden that forest which had
once seemed so familiar
seems completely foreign and you can
it's almost sad
that
the generation that's coming up now the
people who are your age for example

(01:21):
which was around my age when i went and
did that
don't really have many options to do
that experience there aren't many
options to get off the land and away
from or to get off the grid and just get
away from everything and kind of survive
on your own there aren't any places to
go this one person actually wrote to me
and saying you know in my country we're
not allowed to go and live off the land

(01:41):
we're not allowed to live off grid
because it's all protected forest by the
government and it's like right until
they need to cut it down right until
they want to cut it down then it's so
much for that protection kind of like
what's happening on vancouver island
with fairy creek right now it's this old
growth forest it's one of the last old
growth forests and there have been
people hundreds of people out there

(02:01):
getting arrested daily over the last
several months even right now i
encourage people to look it up fairy
creek in british columbia but they're
just cutting down this old growth for us
despite the fact that it is so essential
to our ecosystem it's so essential to
the world and the environment as a whole
and it's just in the name of profit and
shortsightedness and egotism and control

(02:23):
and stability and the same stuff that
continues to run
this society as we look at it right it's
just the cornerstone of how we operate
as a species and there's no awareness in
it it's like
habit takes on the appearance of
intelligence after a while
and it's not it's not intelligence it's
just us going through the motions even
when that's destructive and it feels

(02:45):
good because it's familiar
i was going to ask what your thoughts
were on that occurrence but you kind of
went into it a little bit but
yeah with with a lot of these things
that are happening in the name of
profit and
just
growth and
progression

(03:06):
i guess it's
i'm curious if there
are gonna be ways or we get to a point
where we take a step back and look at it
and think
is this worth it but i think because
we look at everything from this
very separated

(03:27):
individualistic lens
it's almost like i'm not sure unless
things really really not that they
aren't
pretty bad already if they really really
get to a point where it's actually
impacting
individuals significantly it's almost
like it is but it's a slow progression

(03:47):
i'm curious if you think there is going
to be a point that it gets here if
you've thought about
what that point would be because
i don't know if i
see that you know i've been uh
watching the absurdity for almost 20
years and and i remember back after 9 11
and and

(04:08):
the massive response um in in terms of
being
anti-islamic as a result of 9 11 even
even people had nothing to do with the
government response the government um
the the media hype everything about it
and it was just this absurd circus that
again justifiably to some degree because
there was something there that that was

(04:29):
impactful and and it changed the whole
world there was just a huge amount of
fear but then the system just came out
on force and in force and they're like
ah and let no tragedy go you know uh
unused and so they did and they they
solidified their power and they did what
they always do and it became another way
to make money and profit and then i
remember rudy giuliani was uh he was he

(04:50):
had a fundraiser where the donation to
get to the fundraiser was 911 dollars
it's like ah
really like
you don't think that's a little bit you
know
just not respectful let's say that let's
just say you're marketing a tragedy
again
and that's kind of the point but i've
been watching the media ever since then

(05:11):
and and the government and yeah i think
about it constantly what is going to be
the breaking point what's what's going
to be the point where we turn around and
at one point i was absolutely sure it
was going to be you know the apocalypse
armageddon like it was just going to be
world war 3 or or something weird
happening a comet from the sky and
that's all possible it's not like earth

(05:33):
doesn't get pummeled from time to time i
think it's every 400 000 years we get a
super volcano and then there's you know
extinction level events that happen
fairly regularly so that's not out of
the question but
over time i've kind of realized that i
gravitated towards that
that
end result because it's almost easier
than the alternative which is thinking

(05:54):
that we can change which is thinking
that we can one person can in fact in
their own life by their own will create
enough ripples
that the rest of the whole feels it
right and that's that's what every you
know uh religion circles around us some
crazy [ __ ] who's thinking the same
thing like you know if i'm just talking
about this all the time maybe we can do

(06:14):
something and and
that's it and i think more and more the
older i get i think that is more a
possibility and this conversation kind
of solidifies that right conversations i
have like this with more and more people
it
it's inspiring to me every day i get
messages now on tik tok or instagram
from people who are thinking about this
stuff

(06:34):
and
20 years ago
i was the odd man out i was i was the
crazy person in the room and now i'm not
i'm not i'm the reasonable voice in the
room going no no we're not disconnected
this is all this is all based on a
misunderstanding
and at one point it's like shut that guy
up
now it's
actually this does kind of suck and i'm

(06:55):
noticing it more and more maybe i should
listen to what that guy's saying right
and and that's all i'm ever saying i'm
saying the same stuff that's what i love
posting about my videos from 2005 is i'm
pretty consistent i've just gotten a
little bit more clear right i've just
gotten a little bit more out of the way
i'm not like you know i'm going to save
the world it's there's no me

(07:15):
this is just ripples that are happening
i'm just part of something that's
happening and that's what i mean by yeah
i think about this stuff all the time
like it's very hard to not look at the
changes individually and then look at
the changes collectively because as
above so below right
we change the same way collectively as
we do individually we're just a bigger

(07:36):
mind
yeah yeah and i think i've
i've at least in my short time here
notice that i think i'm seeing it in
different
areas like there's so many different
pockets of society and things that we do
and ways that we interact and i think it
probably started
more so with your generation like my

(07:57):
you and you and uh you're kind of in
between me and my parents generation my
parents are getting close to 60 now and
i think
since then we've started
to have more people just questioning
things and i guess it probably started
with you know the 60s and and sort of
that um or the roaring 20s i mean there

(08:18):
have been regular events in history
where
sizable pockets of humanity have went
hold on we're not like we're not
thinking the right way look at the civil
war in the united states right basically
over slavery that's a sizable pocket of
the population that suddenly went no
okay we have to do something about this
right so it's like we regularly have
these little bubbles of awareness that
surface
in our collective mentality right and

(08:39):
then they change everything but
each of us individually are a part of
those bubbles that's kind of the thing
that gets me it's like are we part of
the bubble or do we cause the bubble
how much of a role do we have in this
and and i find that the more we're
willing to take it on ourself just
it's like i've said to my daughter if
there's nobody else in the world who's

(09:00):
trying to get past their own egotistical
crap at least there's you
right and that should be enough if it's
just me so be it and that mentality
just seems to have more of an impact
than you know we're going to get
together as as a soul family or a
spiritual army and we're going to change
the system and it's like well what does
that mean what do we mean by we're going

(09:21):
to get together now we're coming
together out of a need to fix things
we're coming together out of mentality
of control and we're doing so in a state
where we're not thinking clearly and
responsibly as the awareness of the
universe which is why we want to get
together is why we want to you know band
together to create kind of an army or a
spiritual you know um
force
and so

(09:42):
we missed the point it's kind of like um
2008 i don't remember if you remember
occupy wall street
yeah vaguely i mean i was 13. they had a
great point right like what i liked
about occupy was that
and how it started was that
everybody just acknowledged there is
something drastically wrong with the
system there's something wrong and so

(10:05):
everybody got together and went this has
to be addressed we need to address this
we're going to occupy you know the
source of corruption and greed as we see
it and we're going to make a big noise
and i think i found the system's
response to that brilliant which was
well what specifically is your problem
and so they they kind of divided the
occupy group based on that because
everybody has their own individual gripe

(10:27):
based on their own
individual perspective of themselves and
so they started arguing amongst
themselves and then the occupy group
actually ended up dividing down the
middle between the richer people and the
poorer people because of course they're
still identifying they're still being
egotistical so
they're standing up saying there's a
problem with the system the system's
going oh well what's the problem
everybody's arguing about what the

(10:47):
individual problems are and that was the
problem is the mentality that was
creating that argument was the mentality
that was creating that competition that
comparison that continued division
between each of us whereas the whole
point was the original argument which
was
there's a problem
there's multiple problems that stem from
it and we need to stop what we're doing
in order to fix it

(11:09):
and we never did we never stopped we
just found a way to keep rolling with it
and so now does it come down to a
calamity that makes us do it or or do
conversations like this turn the tide or
is it going to be a combination of the
two
yeah i definitely think it could be a
combo and with the occupy wall street
example
it almost makes me think that there's
someone on the inside who knew what the

(11:30):
problem was on the on the wall street
side and they kind of used that against
to within
like sort of break down the occupy side
of it from within and it makes me wonder
like does someone actually know what the
problem is and they don't care and
they're using it to their advantage just
to

(11:50):
have
more money or whatever it is still
realizing
the egotistical side of it but then
like they almost knew it and they could
use it it was i don't know that seems
kind of interesting like or is it a
knee-jerk response an automatic response
of the ego of that mentality just like
you know leave no no tragedy
unsquandered right or no tragedy

(12:11):
squandered it's like what can i make of
this what can i use this for and and
that's just
that is a natural mentality when we're
separate from the universe we're always
trying to figure out how to survive
against something that's separate and
therefore scary right and so we get
competitive and controlling and we start
to look at people as disconnected and we
start to you know um
kind of close off our empathy because

(12:32):
empathizing with the people that you're
stepping on in order to protect yourself
makes it more difficult for you to do
those things to protect yourself and so
you have to sacrifice your your security
for empathy right so it's a weird trade
and so again like how much is how much
of what is happening is the result of
our over commitment to a mentality
rather than a small group of people who

(12:53):
are manipulating the masses
yeah yeah it kind of brings about that
idea of problems of the mind can't be
solved the level of the mind
has to be something
greater than and realizing that yeah
maybe the problem is just the idea that
we are
separate to begin with and

(13:13):
and the
how sure we are of it and there's that's
almost something that people never
question
it's like
it's like i'm not sure even someone
who's not sure of many things and
questions a lot of things they could say
i'm not sure of many things but i'm sure
that i am andrew or i'm sure that i'm
this person it's like the one thing left
out of someone who could question a lot

(13:34):
that like they're
seemingly sure of it's like well
have you ever questioned that and maybe
that is sort of
will open the door to
to change and
true progress back maybe
seemingly backwards progress but
before i know a lot of factors change

(13:55):
that response right like how comfortable
they are how old they are how long
they've been invested in this game how
much of the people around them are
invested in the same game i find that
very that that's another thing that
really sucks me it's a crab bucket right
every crabs trying to get pull the other
crabs down as they're trying to escape
and so nobody gets out of the bucket
because all the other crabs are pulling
them back in and
that's very much the mentality it's like

(14:16):
you know you try
in toxic family relationships especially
you try to
get past your mentality of yourself your
idea of yourself you start to get past
your limitations all of a sudden
everybody comes out of the woodwork
telling you no you are that thing
you are the thing we think you are
that's it you know you're just you're
deluding yourself into thinking you can
change you can and they they try to pull
you back into identifying the way that
makes them comfortable

(14:39):
right and and so again it's a knee-jerk
response and you can get angry at them
about it but they don't see that they're
doing it
right they don't understand that's what
they're doing because it's just the way
they see the world to them it makes
perfect sense right that's it and so
it's almost like you're talking a
different language or you're speaking a
different language when you go to
somebody in that mentality and you're

(14:59):
like you know you let's just question
ourselves and they're like you know why
would i do that it took me forever to
build this idea of myself isn't that
what i'm supposed to do that's what
everybody around me is doing everybody's
telling me i'm this thing why would i do
that and you're just like
when you suffer enough it'll make sense
and that's that's the point and then i
think that goes back to your original

(15:20):
question about what's going to be the
tipping point i find more people are
questioning
because our our reality our society is
creating so much consequence under the
surface it's so interesting we have so
many conveniences we have you know uh
digital devices that connect us in
seconds and yet we're so disconnected
from one another right we have so much

(15:40):
information and so little self-knowledge
and so it's it's such an interesting
duality again
right
yeah yeah it
it seems like with a lot of things in
our society now it's
it's like we've gotten to a point that
we're you know we both live in first
world countries and

(16:00):
it's all it seems to me like there's
been sort of two
paths or two ways you can take it and
one side is that you can
find
all the problems and sort of like
manifest
problems
into your own life that and complain
about certain things and we call them

(16:21):
like you know first world problems and
if you really are able to take a step
back you realize how silly it is to
complain
about
you know if you're at a restaurant and
you order water with no ice and they
bring water with ice or something you
know something crazy like that where
someone's literally serving you and you
have the amount of money enough money to
pay for it

(16:42):
or i think there's the other side which
we're kind of doing now with this
conversation is is questioning and
almost
purposefully
becoming less comfortable and realizing
that there is
more things to question instead of just
you know on that fork instead of just
kind of settling there and just being

(17:04):
like well i don't have to take either of
these i can just hang out in the fork in
the road
um which you know and again there is no
better or worse options and there's a
lot of environmental factors i think
that play into the route that people
choose that often gets forgotten when it
comes to manifesting and whatnot but

(17:25):
i've i've seen definitely both sides to
it and i think
you know there's ways to
veer off of that
form or the first path i mentioned but
yeah i think it's it's all
a part of the process for everyone
collectively um and eventually you know

(17:46):
i don't know things will keep happening
i guess
there's so much effort that goes into
our collective egotistical mentality i
mean there's so much control and i used
to call it spinning plates right the
more the more you're trying to juggle
your idea of yourself the more sp plates
you have spinning the more you have to
worry about what that person thinks and
that person thinks and what you've done

(18:06):
over there did you do enough to do this
and you're always trying to live up to
this invisible bar that you set for
yourself but it becomes
overwhelming
and and after a while you start to
stress out and that stress takes its
toll on your body and that that toll on
your body takes its toll on your
motivation and everything else starts to
suffer your responses to people change
you start getting more testy more
resentful you start to think of yourself
your serotonin drops and it becomes this

(18:28):
downward spiral into depression and
apathy and it was all just because
of the original mentality that we were
committed to
whereas you know if we just went i don't
need to spin all these plates this is
stupid i can just let the plates fall
because i i can just put up more plates
none of them are really me it's not
really that important i can choose which
plates i want to spin because i want to

(18:49):
spin them not because i think i need to
spin them and all of a sudden all that
weight falls off and we find ourselves
more clear and we find ourselves more
able to see things in a different light
we see more possibilities everything
opens up
and that's
the one-step process that we talked
about last time right is that we keep
trying to figure well how do we change
the world it's like we gotta get our
head out of our ass before we can even

(19:11):
answer that question i i
we can't have the conversation how do we
change the world until we address the
mentality that's not able to see the
solution
certainly yeah i think i think we
we build up all of these and we've
talked about this before these ideas of
what we
have to do and what we should do

(19:31):
and and who we are and they're all
made up and they're not
necessary and i think it's something
that i've sort of been
i don't want to say struggling with but
sort of toying with is this new idea
that
i've always been
driven in different ways for different
reasons and

(19:53):
i've gotten to a point that's been sort
of up and down
realizing that i don't
need
to do
as many things or
accomplish
as many things and so
part of me feels
like feels kind of
bad like i should be wanting to do

(20:15):
things or like
striving towards things and i still have
things i enjoy and do
but because i don't i know that i don't
have to it's been
kind of this
back and forth where i think today was a
day
or yesterday i wasn't like you know
productive didn't do all the things that

(20:37):
i
would have wanted to do or
i don't even know exactly how to explain
it and then today i did
more things but it's just kind of like
this this back and forth of always
being very rigid and structured with
things and things that i wanted to do
and and i still will keep a to-do list

(20:58):
of just to remember if there are certain
things that i want to do because i'll
forget if i don't write it down but
i don't know i find myself sort of going
back and forth and and almost
wanting
like sort of craving that structure to
have back into my life in my you know
very
set morning routine

(21:18):
where some days i i don't want that but
then some days maybe it's my ego coming
back and being like you need
to do be doing this or you need this and
i know that i don't so it's been sort of
a back and forth i don't know if you've
experienced for sure
absolutely yeah and well i mean i was i
was more or less raised in army brat so

(21:40):
a discipline was a big part of it i went
to an academy for high school where we
had you know uniforms and inspections in
the morning and we had to do all that
and so discipline is a big part of that
and of course there's there's work
there's all the stuff that goes with
work or learning if you're in school or
any of that so
there is a benefit to keeping track of
all that especially if you have a lot to

(22:01):
juggle um but then there's the the stuff
that we add on top of it like the
psychological pressure like you know if
i don't do that i'm a failure right if i
don't do that oh my god the whole
world's going to fall apart and so we
take the task list and we start to
actually put project our assumptions
onto it we start to project other things
onto that task list that don't
necessarily have to be there so it like

(22:21):
with everything it's in balance right
like some days i wake up i'm like okay
i'm up i'm going to do my push-ups i'm
going to you know make some myself a
coffee and some breakfast i'm going to
get to work i'm going to do all that and
then other mornings i wake up and well
i'm going to go take a walk for 15
minutes and then come back and just get
straight to work and it's whatever i
feel like in that day but

(22:42):
knowing that i can switch without it
meaning anything about me knowing that i
can be disciplined one day and then the
next day go meh right that's the freedom
right it's not like i don't have to beat
myself up if i'm not doing one or the
other it's like oh i was disciplined
today therefore i'm not flowing with the
universe [ __ ] i'm gonna judge myself all
right or or or the opposite and it's

(23:03):
like no
either way you're flowing with the
universe like that that's the thing like
we look at humanity look at society and
we're like oh this is not the natural
world well of course it is to some
degree this is an expression of nature
this is an expression of us nature
going down a different path right it's
all the natural world now does that mean
that we're always going to be so one
side dominant no we're we're going to

(23:23):
find that the equilibrium as above so
below just like with your schedule is it
discipline or flow it's kind of both and
it's finding that balance but our
society is very much focused on the
discipline right on the on the hard
square edges as opposed to the squiggly
lines as helen watts used to refer to it
right
yeah yeah yeah i think sometimes you
would say the spikes

(23:44):
versus the squiggles or
yeah certainly and i've always
been much more
on the spiky side and much more
just like quantitative in my
thinking and analysis of things always
more
you know better at the math subjects and
whatnot
um

(24:05):
but it's been
yeah it's been interesting i think it's
like an adjustment that i
have to go through
almost not have to but i am going
through it so it is what it is more or
less um
but
i've been through things like this
before and i always come out the other
side finding

(24:25):
more
balance and i've been because i'm
kind of a person of extremes for the
most part like when i'm
in on something like i'm in on it i'm
passionate about it for sure and then
sometimes like i'll find something else
that'll kind of grab my attention and
i'll be able to take what i've learned
from that and move on and continue and

(24:48):
so i think with this
i've all like i've spent 26 years being
extremely
disciplined and rigid and you know i've
gone to i went to the college i wanted
to go to played the sports i wanted to
play you know because of that more or
less so there's definitely been
you know i've derived

(25:08):
benefit from it i guess and now
i sort of have this realization that i i
don't
need to and i may
find some other types of benefits from
not doing that all the time so
sort of cut some of that out and i'll
probably end up taking some from both
and i think maybe i've

(25:28):
pushed it too far to where
maybe i can add a little bit more
structure in and eventually it'll find
its way but i think a key
like you mentioned is just not
judging yourself along the way and i
think just literally as we're talking
right now as i'm speaking i'm realizing
this that it's probably

(25:49):
i went to a side that i have never been
to and eventually it'll you know course
correct and i'll come out and
it's
i'm different and changed and as you
always are but
yeah i think i think it's just all part
of that sort of
process of of learning and changing and
growing oh but hold on we have to you

(26:11):
know analyze and categorize how you're
changing and we need to set up
structures and institutions to you know
discuss how you're changing and exactly
what's happening and on and it's like
okay or or or i could just take a walk
right now feel better eventually um and
that's it but we we get really caught up

(26:32):
in in the personalization of what we're
going through and i found that was one
of my biggest problems when i i was you
know going through my mental health
issues was that i kept getting told oh
you have this disorder and oh you have
this disorder and this is what's
happening it's like oh that's me now and
that's me now now everything i saw was
through the lens of the disorder that i
thought i understood which was really

(26:54):
just a categorization of other people
with similar behaviors and then a bunch
of assumptions on top of that
and so it was eventually going right
right right i'm just tangled up in a
bunch of perceptions and habitual
responses i have to unweave that i have
to just look at where i'm i'm responding
out of habit i'm responding out of um
assuming that this instance just because

(27:15):
it's similar to a previous instance
deserves the same response right and so
it's just
being honest with myself over and over
and over again and and that's really it
that's a big part of the one-step
process we talked about last time is
brutal self-honesty
you have to be brutally self-honest like
one of my hardest lessons was realizing

(27:36):
that i was manipulative
right realizing that i was manipulative
because i was needy and because i lacked
in myself and that was i was selfish and
self-involved and of course i was that's
where i thought value came from
right and so i had to swallow that pill
and that's what helped me get over
that was admitting that i could be that

(27:57):
person admitting that i could be a liar
admitting that i could be manipulative
or that i could be dishonest because we
avoid that because it doesn't doesn't
sit well to admit that we could lie
right but it's true every child can lie
every person can lie anybody who tells
you oh i i couldn't lie is full of [ __ ]
they're lying to you right then and
there right and that that's the whole

(28:17):
point
it's always in us all of it is and as
soon as we are able to accept that
without judging it as soon as we're able
to see where it comes from then we're
able to avoid it better or rather we're
able to
to learn from it without falling into it
yeah where do you find
the importance of

(28:38):
figuring things out
for yourself like we talk a lot about
this idea of you know there is no
should you don't need anyone outside of
yourself you don't need a guru you don't
necessarily need a teacher
do you think there is
some balance necessary in that in uh

(28:59):
in getting to a point maybe where you
can even
even realize that because i know we've
talked in the past about like aaa and
there's there's levels to all of this
and how the end of aaa is realizing that
there is a higher power and then but
maybe that's not exactly like
100 percent optimal but it's still
getting the person from

(29:21):
one spot
to another so when it comes to
you know helpful people outside of
yourself or
their ability to express something about
you that you aren't just are not at the
moment capable
of even seeing because i think sometimes
people struggle with that as they don't
you don't know what you don't know and

(29:42):
oftentimes that is about ourself like
some would argue that we can't even know
ourselves how can one know
oneself like you can't cut a pair of
scissors with a pair of the same pair of
scissors
yeah yeah exactly
yeah
but but when it comes to that like the
balance between

(30:02):
using your own intuition what's best and
feeling like you need someone outside of
yourself or utilizing people outside of
yourself or tools outside of you and
that's part of our intuition i mean to
some degree right
i think the danger is is always just
attachment
and even that when you find yourself
attached

(30:23):
don't attach to your judgment of your
attachment right at least just just
recognize that you attached and kind of
you know
see that for what it is and there's that
brutal self-honesty again it's like
right i'm attaching i'm trying to feel
secure i'm trying to you know pass the
buck off to somebody else who's going to
walk the path for me whatever that might
be
but
yeah everything goes in stages um i was

(30:44):
talking about self-love and acceptance
in a video recently and uh somebody said
well if i'm a serial killer so all i
have to do is is you know love myself
and i found enlightenment and it's like
well as a serial killer do you think it
would be that easy to do that do you
think that you could just love yourself
given the history and the road that that
brought you to there and all the things
you've done since then like that would
require so much brutal self-honesty and

(31:07):
so much in internal struggle that it
would happen over decades possibly
forever until that person died they may
never get to a point where they're able
to actually self-love as a result of
that that process of brutal self-honesty
but that process would go down many
different twists and turns they would
find themselves gravitating towards
certain teachers and gravitating away
from them towards other you know other

(31:28):
disciplines like psychology or
philosophy and
this is how how our process goes so as
much as we can say it's a one-step
process
it's a one-step process that plays out
over what we view as time right and so
all of a sudden yeah we do get drawn by
our intuition towards say krishnamurti
and then our intuition goes

(31:51):
okay but you're like every time you
thought you're thinking about things
you're like i gotta go read krishnamurti
you're getting a little attached right
and if we if we're honest about it we go
right okay and put that down and we'll
deal with the uncertainty that goes with
having to rely on our own insight again
and we'll weather that for as long as we
can and we'll find our sea legs again
we'll find that balance then we'll go
off in another direction entirely and
we'll lose ourselves again and attach

(32:12):
one more time and then we'll learn from
that hopefully if as long as we're
self-honest and we'll pull ourselves
back towards center and so
as with everything it's just the process
of refinement right like right now i'm
in a state where i don't necessarily
want to go and read spiritual books i
don't want to go out and listen to
spiritual
teachers on on life and and and universe

(32:34):
and all that because
i'm learning more from just the
day-to-day like just from conversations
like this or walking down the street and
seeing something that's happening with
the neighbors or or anything like that
like i'm learning more just from my
moment-to-moment experiences because
that's that's the state of mind i'm in
now that doesn't mean that at some point
i'm not going to go suddenly you know
careening off into the philosophical

(32:55):
again or or just going towards you know
something that's more uh participatory
as in you know trying to to implement
small ripples of change in the world
around me but it grab it goes one way or
another because we're always learning
from the context and and
the danger i think is that we tend to
think oh well one avenue or another has
to be my purpose and it's like no no you

(33:17):
are your purpose like you are all the
woven strands of everything you've ever
done
right you are just continuing to weave
yourself into a into a larger strand
that creates more of an impact and
weaves into other strands like you are
your purpose there isn't any one thing
you're supposed to do you are it
yeah i think we've talked about that
i think last episode with you know

(33:39):
knowing yourself and who you are and
your purpose and you're talking about
all these strands weaving i just
imagined someone you know who say
they're 20 years old and they found
their purpose and it's like i feel like
that that's just an attachment to one of
those strands that are trying to weave
together and once you've you know found
your purpose it brings about the sense

(34:00):
of security but then you get locked to
that strand and even though it's trying
to weave back with everything else
you've
made this decision that this is
you know this is your purpose and
i've figured it out i got it
nicely packaged up
yeah and then
you become attached to it and stick to

(34:20):
it despite
what may want to come along and because
you've attached to that and you you know
believe
that to be the truth you're not open to
being able to see
the rest of the strands that are coming
your way yeah because you're comfortable
that's it right like i think um
one thing i found to be incredibly sad

(34:41):
was uh mother teresa who who is
renowned for all the good she did in her
life
she had a diary that she wrote during
her life and after she died it was
discovered that she had several moments
after deciding to commit to you know
her life of as a missionary of going
around and helping people for god she

(35:03):
actually had many moments of regret
afterwards because although she had one
moment where she experienced
divinity or experienced unity and that's
what it basically inspired her to want
to help everybody she saw herself and
everybody she saw us all as one right
after that it became a belief
and it just became habit instead of
being a renewed experience over and over

(35:23):
and over again it became
a structure and something she had
committed to and who knows what she
might have done had she decided to
change path had she decided to explore
different areas rather than just
committing to the one rule that she did
which i'm not going to say wasn't
tremendous in all the good that she did
in the world but who knows what a soul
as good as that a person as good as that
could have accomplished had they not

(35:44):
locked themselves into a certain role
yeah yeah
makes you wonder but
um
yeah you mentioned before about uh like
serial killers and talking about
self-love and whatnot and
made me think of this idea of their
they're not being a right way to be a

(36:05):
person or a correct way to be a person
and everything is added as it is there's
no objective good or bad
what do you say about
serial killers and people like that
because it's a lot of people's arguments
are they you know maybe they have like a
chemical
imbalance and whatnot

(36:27):
so
i i heard that too when i was uh going
through depression and that there was a
chemical imbalance nobody ever tested
the chemicals nobody ever actually
did any kind of of analysis on the
chemicals in my brain it was just more
or less oh there's a chemical imbalance
there there are cases as well where uh
it's a result of
trauma to the brain at a young age um so

(36:47):
it's behavioral and that is that is
physically influenced um
largely
i and again
i'm not gonna lie i've got a huge
interest in serial killers and and all
kinds of crimes throughout history just
because again
what is the mentality that drives us to
that and by and large it's the
environment more often than anything

(37:09):
else it's the lack of connection or or
it's the toxicity of the family unit or
it's the toxicity of the mentality that
they were taught the perception of women
the perception of other people the
perception of other races and so it just
contributes over time until
there's an outlet that makes no sense to
the rest of us but where they are in
their mind it makes perfect sense and i

(37:30):
think we tend to downplay that that
our consciousness if we were to look at
our consciousness as a geographic world
it's freaking huge it's huge with
infinite rooms and in each of those
rooms different things make sense
different things seem like they
seem logical right in different states
of mind different things seem logical

(37:51):
and so yeah when you're far enough down
a particular branch that happens to be
dark and toxic and it takes you down
other dark toxic branches and that's all
you learn the world is
bad shit's going to happen
and so i think that
we can't we can't have a discussion
about these kind of people
on the surface in the same way we can't
talk about addiction

(38:12):
being about the substance on the surface
we can't simply blame
the action we have to look at the
contributing factors the roots of that
action and the roots of that action are
a profoundly sick society
at the end of the day just because we're
so divided we
our mentality once again discourages
empathy

(38:33):
that's going to result in some nasty
[ __ ] and it has i mean that's the whole
point if you look at our history
we've been completely barbaric and the
cultures that haven't been barbaric that
haven't over committed to the mentality
of division of
identity and division
are the ones that we wiped out
right so we're seeing a resurgence of a

(38:54):
mentality that's always there that's
what this conversation is but it's it's
emerging
after another mentality basically tried
to stomp it out
right so i think that we'll see
less crime and we'll see less murder and
less anger and aggression and toxicity
as we start identifying and coming to

(39:17):
terms with where all of that comes from
what exacerbates it because while
there's always anger
homicidal anger is an extreme and that's
an extreme that has a lot of
contributing factors no no child is born
homicidal again unless there's certain
physical you know
contributions to that but
it's not in us it's something that we

(39:37):
learn it's something it's a habit or a
reaction that we learn over time that
eventually becomes and again it takes
the
appearance of intelligence without being
intelligent
right
that's why i enjoy if you ever get a
chance read the many minds of billy
milligan
write that down that that book is

(39:58):
fantastic it's uh it's about a person
who had multiple personality and it's
based on a real on a real person um and
this person basically just slipped in
and out of the cracks of society
appearing normal as he drifted from one
personality to another holding down
different jobs until eventually he was
arrested for sexual assault because one
of his personalities tended to want to

(40:19):
do that and so the whole story is about
how this this person suffering through
this incredible
uh mental health issue in terms of
having multiple personality disorder had
just been forgotten had just been left
to to fend for himself in society until
finally he broke a rule that was hard
enough for people to notice him
but that's happening all the time and

(40:40):
and the life that he had that brought
him to have to split himself in so many
ways
is just tragic in the extreme
and yet the mentality is oh well that's
a failure of the system it's no no it's
a failure of us that that's our
mentality that the system is reflecting
we have to change individually but we
keep trying to change the system

(41:01):
so do you think someone like that
billy milligan that could have that many
different personalities do you think
that's all learned
he actually resolved them that was the
thing by the end of his life he he's
cured he doesn't have multiple
personality anymore he actually ended up
creating his own extra character

(41:23):
whether it was willingly or not called
the teacher
and the teacher's role was to bring all
the other characters together to help
them integrate with one another to
create one whole billy so he fixed
himself
once he had the environment that allowed
him to do it
wow just crazy
yeah

(41:43):
that sounds kind of similar to
be related to society to a degree on a
on a mass scale well look at rat
wonderland have you ever heard of that
study i think that that's what it's
called
uh
maybe i don't know if i've heard of that
name but so basically they took a bunch
of rats and they put them in in an
environment where they gave them a

(42:04):
choice between i think it was water and
morphine or or something like that and
so the rats basically just kept going
back to the morphine over and over and
over again to the point where you know
they were going to die
and so what they did was they changed
the environment they gave the rats like
a little wheel to run on they gave them
some like stuff to play in some tunnels

(42:25):
and things to entertain them
and what they found was that the rats
would just go to the water occasionally
going to the drug to kind of increase
their enjoyment of the wonderland that
they lived in so once the environment
stopped being so sterile and depressing
they got away from the drugs
because they weren't trying to escape
hell
right so it's really the environment

(42:46):
that we've created for ourselves and and
the environment that we've created
is very disconnected it's um harsh in
the extreme like we we pay to live on a
planet
that we spawned from
yeah
yeah it's quite intriguing that study's
really interesting though

(43:08):
just like the impact
of environment i feel like it's not
considered
enough almost i feel like a lot of
people especially when it comes to
mental health just put it
on
you know the with the nature versus
nurture debate it's always
it seems like all everything's just
boxed into

(43:30):
the nature
side of it you know and
i think
everyone agrees there's a degree of both
but i just hear so often that you know
the ideas of chemical imbalance and
things like that when it comes to mental
health that is so common and and so that
just kind of allows us to not worry too
much about

(43:51):
the nurture or the environment and we
can just label or even as broken
yeah
yeah
and we don't have to look at anything
but i i always that chemical in the
brain argument always always gets me
because
it's very much you know putting the cart
before the horse right like we're like
oh

(44:11):
your emotional spectrum is messed up
because you're the chemicals in your
brain are imbalanced it's like right but
my brain responds to my awareness and my
consciousness so the chemicals it's
creating are the result of where i've
went in my head like in my awareness
like i'm creating chemicals that that
promote more anxiety because i'm in a
mentality that promotes more men and

(44:32):
more anxiety but no no the chemicals are
doing it and that just allows us to pass
the buck and not do any self-reflection
or introspection or any growth just go
back to work we'll see you tomorrow
morning here's two pills
right and and that's the whole point is
that if we were to
it's like krishnamurti said you know
it's no measure of health to be well
adjusted to a profoundly sick society

(44:53):
right and that's that's it is that we
keep trying to adjust to the society
around us but the society around us is
toxic it's me it's based on an old
mentality that no longer serves us and
we can feel it in our everyday lives we
feel it when we gripe about having to
pay our taxes we feel that when we gripe
about corrupt politicians we feel it

(45:13):
when we gripe around about the fact that
corporations pay practically nothing and
they basically screw up everything for
us and then put the responsibility on us
right it's like there's what six
companies in the world that create
almost all the plastics but somehow it's
on you to recycle
right so
it's just it comes down to there's just
this massive amount of cognitive

(45:34):
dissonance that in order for us to
change things we have to change
ourselves that requires us to let go of
this
this mass experiment in comfort and
control
and that's what it is we can take things
from this that worked that that
everybody's argument is always oh so you
just want us to go back to the caveman
days to the stone age it's like no
obviously why would we do that we have

(45:56):
electricity we have technology we can
use it i'm saying that maybe it's not
the best idea to base everything on
money or maybe it's not the best idea to
allow lobbyists and on in government or
maybe it's not the best idea to have
federally or federally run governments
that are so large they're disconnected
from the people they're supposed to be

(46:16):
representing you know
we can take the things that worked we
can jettison the things that didn't
and and continue on but
in order to do that a lot of people who
have been benefiting from this game are
going to be super unhappy about it and
that's all we're really seeing that's
what we're seeing in in corporate
lobbying that's what we're seeing in
politics is the sway of those who have

(46:38):
been benefiting from this toxic game and
all we have to do is just keep going
right but i don't need to buy your [ __ ]
and i don't need to believe in you your
mentality i don't need to go out and
support
this movement or this movement because
it's all [ __ ] i need to grow with my
grow in myself and talk to the person
who's next to me like they are me and

(46:59):
that ripple will change everything but
we don't have any control that's that's
the point right is that we don't it has
to be about the moment we're in
yeah
yeah i'm
coming closer and closer to just
realizing that more and more and
especially the last you know month or
two just

(47:20):
questioning
everything that i have for so long sort
of taken for granted and just
thought of being you know it is the way
it it is and and i've started thinking
about this a while ago but especially
more
seriously
recently just how
absurd it is the idea of where we came

(47:42):
from being
you know coming from
the earth
to what it's turned into
now and it seems like
it's just so separate and we're so far
from
that realization that we came
from the earth and people have all these
ideas and stories about what we're doing

(48:03):
here what where we came from and
and it's just gotten so far
from that
that
i it seems to me like it's going to take
a lot
to
begin back towards that like it's been
hundreds of thousands of years of this

(48:24):
solidifying into what we have now
well i always find that interesting
right we have what about 10 000 years of
you know documented history and and it
gets sketchier as we go back but i mean
we've been humans for over a quarter
million years homo sapien
right so that's that's a hell of a gap
in our history right like that that that

(48:44):
takes the whole jesus gap and makes it
laughable it's like oh you know jesus
disappeared for 18 years i was like yeah
we have no we have 200 000 plus history
years of history of humans that we have
no idea what we were doing it's like
occasionally we find a cave right or
something like that but
there's so much history so
and again on a lot a long enough
timeline

(49:06):
everything seems like a short amount of
time but uh
we've been really committed to this for
the last you know six seven thousand
years for sure agriculture kind of
tipped the scales and then we got out of
hand with that because agriculture in
itself is not a bad thing any more than
a car is a bad thing right like the
invention of a vehicle was amazing great
idea the idea that everyone should have
one maybe not so much

(49:27):
right like how many vehicles do we need
to facilitate a community let's let's
talk about this right but then again it
came down to well if i own a car it
makes me important it makes me
successful it makes me a pillar of my
community and it became identification
again right and it that's that's the way
things always go i mean um edward
bernays who was sigmund freud's nephew

(49:48):
used freud's analysis of the ego to
change what we look at as as public
relations in the early 1900s right he
used identification
in order to sway politics he used um the
ego in order to change the argument
about women smoking
right like there were so many things
that were so okay so edward bernays

(50:11):
basically was hired by the tobacco
companies to get rid of this taboo about
women smoking this was back in i think
the 1920s or something like that and so
what he did was in
the macy's day parade which is a big
event at the time
he had a bunch of uh rich debutante
women come down and all at once light up
cigarettes

(50:31):
at the parade
papers rushed over they're like what how
can this happen he got he got in front
of them he's like no no
they're supporting the suffragette
movement
those are torches of freedom
boom women smoking was no longer a taboo
because it was identification
right
value by opposition

(50:52):
right and that was it and then and he
did that for a bunch of stuff and
because you know if you want to buy a
set of shoes 120 years ago
you'd see a sign that says you know
shoes guaranteed to last 30 years
now you'll see a sign saying shoes
guaranteed to make you taller or
something like that like it's just it's
going to make you awesome to people and
it's like it's a totally different

(51:13):
selling point because now we think about
ourself instead of utility instead of
actually the function of the thing
it's interesting yeah there is a lot
i've i feel like just so much
less on the utility
side of things and i've always
i feel like i've always thought more on
the utility

(51:34):
side of things and
just i don't know when it comes to
i don't know fashion or anything like
that it's like do i want this one that
has this name on it or this one that's
way more comfy and not as expensive it's
like yeah i'll take the comfy one thanks
like i don't need to spend an extra
hundred dollars because it has this

(51:55):
little stamp on it
but that's
not like a lot of people do
think like that clearly um but
yeah with the
with the idea before you're talking
about you know things happening and you
know the car being a great thing but
maybe not to the extent that we did it
and i think
i was thinking about this last week if

(52:19):
if humans like people talk about good or
bad and i asked i i started wondering
like well
is are humans good or bad
for the earth you know we came from the
earth we haven't been here the whole
time we evolved are humans a good or a
bad thing for the earth and
if from the earth's perspective

(52:41):
probably probably leans bad for sure are
you sure
are volcanoes good or bad for the earth
they are they are they are and from them
springs new life from them springs new
species from them springs islands
right and forest fire same thing a
forest fire clears all kinds of dead

(53:02):
brush sometimes disease and toxicity and
makes way for new growth and change
right so
humanity is neither good nor bad it
really comes down to what we do with it
and and
that's that's the whole thing we can't
generalize it right it comes down to
what do you want to do and what you do
is neither good nor bad it's just what

(53:23):
it is right but
instead of looking at things in terms of
good or bad because that that tends to
imply uh morality let's just say i tend
to to identify them if i'm going to
identify them as destructive or
constructive
is this something that destroys or
something that creates and not
everything it destroys is bad and not
everything it creates is good

(53:44):
right so i tend to look at it that way
instead you know is it unifying or is it
deficit right and and neither is good or
bad but but it
at least indicates its nature
right and at the moment humans
are primarily divisive right
and that doesn't make us bad because we
can swing the other way any time any

(54:05):
time as we have before
right like i said 250 plus thousand
years of history
we didn't build skyscrapers throughout
all of that we didn't have you know
corporations that charged you you know
50 cents for the product you were buying
and 80 bucks for the branding
right like that that was the whole thing
right like we we had

(54:26):
cultures before this that were based on
utility it's funny because again i just
came back from camping and my daughter
hasn't went camping with me in a couple
years and so we were out there and all
of a sudden
we just all came together all of a
sudden it's like this needs to be done
and this needs to be done and she was
helping cut wood and it was just there
was just a flow that happened there was
no distraction we were just all in it
together

(54:47):
and then we were talking like yeah now
imagine if we had you know a dozen other
people who were you know like us or of
like mind who just wanted to get things
done so we could all sit around the fire
afterwards and hang out and somebody
else stoked the fire while you and i
went down and got food and that was the
beginning of a community that was the
beginning of our villages right is that
we worked together

(55:08):
to kind of keep our little pocket of
control or influence outside of nature
right and then it just got out of hand
all of a sudden you know everybody ended
up getting assigned
jobs and roles and then those assigned
jobs and roles ended up getting you know
different levels of importance and then
the community kept growing and and so
what we saw was our pocket of control

(55:28):
start to just expand and nature itself
just started to get torn apart and that
that's kind of how i look at it is that
if you look at cities or if you if
you're flying overhead right you can see
where humans are it looks like a circuit
board right but within 10 years of
humans disappearing nature would just
grow over that like like a wound healing

(55:48):
it would just close up around it right
so we have to constantly maintain our
little bubble of influence right that's
the danger that's why our economy and
our society is in such danger all the
time is because the smallest thing can
throw it 2008 almost buried everybody
economically
right like the world was within like a
couple of hours of just economic

(56:09):
collapse
and so that's kind of the point is that
we have to constantly maintain this like
now they they were going to print a
trillion dollar coin
to try and like account for for their
fictitious money game like how
ridiculous is this it's like i'm just
going to make a monopoly piece hold on
right it's like
this this is the point so we're
constantly you know just running faster

(56:30):
and faster and faster trying to maintain
our game even though the faster we run
the more the people playing the game
suffer
do you think that stems
to a degree from
people thinking
i don't know short term almost in the
span of their lifetime something like
you know inflation with just printing

(56:52):
off a shitload of money i mean we're
both
you know interested in the
crypto and bitcoin space and so i've
done my fair amount of research into
that and just the idea
of printing money when you need more
it's so silly and yet grown adults make
decisions to do it and print off

(57:13):
trillions like so much and it just seems
so silly and yet
it's gotten to a point where it seems
necessary almost to to them clearly i
mean to a degree
yeah
i don't know to them no you gotta yeah
right because

(57:35):
we're not basing anything on actual
value anymore right like
value is created by us we are value
right so
food has value because we make the food
right we eat the food that's why it has
value resources like gold and silver and
oil and whatnot trees lumber whatever
they have value because of the labor

(57:55):
that we put in
to get them out of the ground and use
them
that's value
paper has no value
right money has no value gold itself has
no value except in how we use it and the
process of taking it out of the ground
and so our perspective of value is
completely skewed and so we're not

(58:16):
actually
operating in the real world in terms of
of what value is we're operating in this
fictitious world where we've kind of
arbitrarily decided things are are
valuable in a measurable way according
to these pieces of credit that we've all
just
agreed to use they're not based on

(58:36):
anything and the problem is is that
we're not in charge of those of those
credits those credits just get inflated
whenever the the system wants to to
inflate them right the government can
just borrow more money or create more
money and so
it what was the quote it was about one
of the original founding fathers in the
u.s is that um
inflation is a hidden tax
right

(58:57):
because that's what it is right is that
you can save all the money you want but
if they inflate the economy your money
is worthless it doesn't matter how long
you hold on to it or what your interest
rate is if the inflation rate is
deteriorating the value of your money
just as fast you're in serious [ __ ] you
know like um back in the 50s i think it
was uh a quarter a quarter was an actual
quarter ounce of silver right and you

(59:17):
could buy a gallon a gallon of gas for a
quarter for a quarter ounce of silver
well now a gallon of gas costs you out
of like four or five bucks or something
right
just happens to be the exact value of a
quarter ounce of silver
right so nothing's actually changed in
terms of value it's the dollars we use
that have become worthless

(59:38):
um
yeah
very
very interest and especially i mean
especially since it was taken off the
gold standard right in the
70s that's where it really
became completely
valueless and people you know
people will ask when i talk about
bitcoin sometimes and i'm far from even

(01:00:00):
you know close to an expert but they'll
say you know what you know what value
said have do you think part of it is the
act of
mining
like that the time that it takes for
that
is that the main okay yeah that's what i
always thought but then you know people
will just say you know it's

(01:00:20):
we just decide on it we could say that
it's worth x if we want it's like i
don't i'm pretty sure no but
again and the fact that it's
deflationary right like it there is a
limited amount of bitcoin that will ever
be in existence and so you talk about
scarcity driving up
the price of something or the value of
something this is this is something that

(01:00:41):
the scarcity is is basically set in
stone as opposed to say gold where gold
will be evaluated according to the
amount of gold that's known to be in the
world
and then all of a sudden they find a new
vein and that just changes the entire
supply chain right so that changes the
value of gold whereas with bitcoin
they're never going to find more bitcoin
like there's this there's a limited
amount of bitcoin that will ever be and

(01:01:03):
and with that in mind it's important to
remember that that the bitcoin frenzy
that we're going through right now will
eventually change like in the next 10
years when when bitcoins are are harder
to mine and when we as we see keep going
towards more and more having events
it's going to change the way that
bitcoin is traded it's going to become
more like gold than it is even right now
it's going to stabilize over time but

(01:01:23):
right now what we got is this huge media
frenzy as well as the realization that
we don't need the system to create
currency
right like we we can we can trade value
ourselves
based on our labor right i go out i make
a paycheck i buy bitcoin that's me
turning the value of my labor into the
value of bitcoin

(01:01:45):
right so it's just interesting that that
i think that insight's going to lead us
to an insight that we can also govern
ourselves without
representatives
yeah that would be
an exciting insight i would say but it's
funny
too seeing
just
the people who are sort of in power in

(01:02:06):
in
you know heads of these massive banks
and organizations and i saw
it was on instagram maybe last week a
video
of comparing
the head of the company
like talking [ __ ] about bitcoin
basically and then
the week following after a little dip

(01:02:27):
because of that how much power they have
their company bought a shitload of
bitcoin and it's it's so disgusting
but at the same time how could you even
fault them that much for it like they're
driven by that if they have the
opportunity to have some sort of sway

(01:02:47):
how can you even really fault them for
it it's kind of the structure of it
i think it's great i i think that it's
uh
you go ahead dig in right and buy as
much bitcoin as you want just just keep
getting that value out of the fiat right
just can't just keep messing with the
currency as it is because that that's
that's something that can destabilize
the world in a huge way if everybody

(01:03:09):
keeps dumping their value into
cryptocurrencies that the system doesn't
control that that's that's a great way
of destabilizing things for sure but
that's why you have the system trying to
establish control that's why you have
china banning bitcoin again for the 40th
time or something right you have
different countries countries that are
adopting bitcoin on mass which is
fantastic too right so there's just

(01:03:29):
there's so much uncertainty moving
forward because the technology that is
adapting out of out of again our society
our younger minds that aren't focused on
on our ideas some are on our idea of
ourselves so much as what can we do with
this new technology um that's going to
change things the system can't adapt
fast enough for it which is why i always
enjoy watching members of parliament or

(01:03:49):
members of congress who are in their 70s
asking executives from social media
companies questions about technology and
you're like you don't even know what
that means
you're asking about something you don't
even understand and somebody wrote that
for you to ask
and yet you're still in charge how are
you still in charge
right it just it's so funny it's again

(01:04:12):
it's if you can learn to laugh at the
absurdity while this giant play goes on
then you're going to be in a much better
state of mind to deal with it because
things are going to get weirder
yeah yeah that's something
i'm grateful that i sort of realized was
just to be able to

(01:04:32):
just realize how absurd it is and be
able to laugh i think in versus
getting angry and just sort of bottling
up this sphere of anger that doesn't go
anywhere because there's not that much
you can do immediately about it not to
say there's nothing besides embodying
you know the universe and this idea of

(01:04:54):
unity
but
yeah i think who is it albert camus does
he talk about the absurdity
i think i've
seen some stuff he may uh
discuss just the absurdity of it all and
the realization of that can be
actually extremely
freeing as opposed to
depressing um and it kind of keeps me

(01:05:17):
going
yeah
kind of flip it a little bit
because it could go either way
and and i'll say that that is in no
small part um informed by my
awareness of my awareness like
i talk about
um living stress-free or rather being

(01:05:37):
able to adapt to reality as it goes and
a big part of that i'm not gonna lie is
the fact that i know i'm not rey
right like i i know like the whole world
could burn and i'm still gonna be
standing because i'm the universe i'm
always going to be in one form it's
always me
it's always awareness at the end of the
day and so
yeah i'm i'm standing on the edge of the

(01:05:58):
bonfire dancing just because you know
the worst that could happen is it gets
out of hand and then we start over but
as far as i as far as i'm concerned is
that if i can show other people we don't
have to contribute to the fire we can
dance we can we can walk away from this
[ __ ] entirely and start something else
i think that's the most beneficial thing
i can do and that goes back to a
question you asked in a previous episode

(01:06:19):
about you know like how can we enjoy our
lives when there's so many bad things
happening in the world and it's like
because that's what's going to help
those things eventually stop that's
what's going to help you know the
ripples that that bring those things to
a halt or rather minimize them right if
we can create a world where where we are
sharing where we do we see each other as
as one another that changes everything

(01:06:41):
you may not change everything overnight
and i'm not going to say like in 20
years time we're going to be living in a
utopia
but if we really took this to heart
a couple generations down the road the
world would look completely different
completely different and since that's us
a couple generations down the road it
makes sense that we should just get to
work but that starts with that

(01:07:01):
recognition that it's us a few
generations down the road
yeah and i think realizing that that's
been one of the biggest
understandings that i've
come to just having these conversations
um mostly with you but
about
you know because that was something i
was struggling with just like my

(01:07:21):
my ego coming out being like what you
know how could you be
feeling so good right now there's so
much [ __ ] going on but i think realizing
that
i am
that [ __ ] and i embody
it all and i
the only thing
truly impactful even though it may seem
to the ego

(01:07:43):
that
has a form and is
you know this idea of andrew can't see
beyond
itself in that way so it thinks that it
has to
impact it now
in some way
and
make me feel

(01:08:03):
bad about
not doing it immediately
yeah and then realize so realizing that
this does go on for eternity and the
most impactful thing we can do are just
have conversations like this and
and
help people
to see that you know we're not you're

(01:08:23):
not it's just that yeah just be there
because you can
right like somebody is going through
something you can't solve the problem
maybe the best thing you can do is just
be there without needing anything from
them
right just to show them that not
everybody does right and that's that's
the whole point it's just
the more
you come to peace with who you are the

(01:08:44):
more you're in alignment as what is
the more you're able to model
exactly how freeing that feeling is to
be in what is because that's all we're
ever doing right like i talk to people
all the time and they they often comment
i feel like i can talk to you about
anything it's like well you can't
because i
i'm not holding on to any of it i don't

(01:09:04):
have any said opinions on you i don't
have any judgment of you and i'm not
trying to get anything out of you
so
you are probably with about the safest
person you could possibly meet right now
right and and to me that's its own
reward i love that and then people walk
away wanting to give that to other
people
right because
it's a gift that costs nothing and

(01:09:26):
changes everything
definitely yeah i'm actually
so i started
a few days ago or last week this ebook
that i've been working on a little bit
and
i'm really
trying to be particular with how i
started off and i wanted to be just sort

(01:09:46):
of this place that people can go if
they're struggling with you know
different things sort of
like i've posted videos about i don't
know 100 topics at least and i wanted to
just be a place where it's all kind of
there and i update it regularly but i'm
i'm starting things off and i was
writing my intro and this idea of

(01:10:07):
and i i'm focusing on this idea that
there is no should and basically
explaining early on that
you if there's one message to take away
from this book is that you don't need
this book and you don't need me
and there is no should there is no right
way any of the topics that are discussed
in this book that is not the right way

(01:10:28):
to do it it is a way that may be able to
help and because we've talked about in
the past how you've been asked you know
if you'd ever write a book and you're
like absolutely not because i want to be
a part of the conversation and so i i
want to
sort of toe that line of putting
something concrete out there but
explaining that it isn't
something that you need and that message

(01:10:51):
in and of itself i think can
sort of be that
you know teach you how to fish as
opposed to giving a bunch of fish but
yeah i've been i've been really trying
to
express that early
so that
people real hope hopefully realize that
and then are able to utilize it

(01:11:11):
you know in whatever ways they see fit i
guess totally no i think that's a great
idea i'm looking forward to reading it
because as you're noticing
it's tricky
right it's tricky because you want to
write something like
this is all you need oh [ __ ] i just gave
him an answer right right like you're
just like no that's not what i want to
do um i remember
i wrote an ebook back in like 2005 2006

(01:11:34):
it's called you are um
and
yeah it was just i just want to express
this and very much the forward of it is
this is just a discussion this is just
me chatting to you about things that i
have noticed that's it and it was it
ended up being fairly fairly short and i
went back and looked at it recently and
it's like that's okay sunbox is kind of
on point right but it's just interesting

(01:11:57):
how
the way we want to express this
changes so much over time like i i've
done so many articles and and ebooks and
seminars and workshops and and stuff
like that over the years and each time
how i express it changes how i how i see
it should be expressed or it could be
expressed changes over time so
i'm stoked that you're writing this and

(01:12:18):
i'm looking forward to
five years down the road when you do
another similar thing maybe a longer
book and you look back at this ebook and
you go hey that's pretty good but i
think i could have said it differently
this way right
because it's it's always the process of
refinement right like we are the process
of refinement when we're focused on
awareness our awareness just continues

(01:12:40):
to grow and and as a result everything
we do becomes more and more efficient
right it becomes more and more to the
point and i'm always amazed by that
that's why when i was in school and
they're like you know your brain will
change according to anything you
practice that just blew my mind i was
just like
really
anything i practice eh

(01:13:01):
and so over time it's like what if i
practice
being free
right what if i practice letting go of
my assumptions what if i practice
and that's the point your brain learns
that but it's just the process of going
through it and then as you do you start
to realize oh wow it's almost like its
own form of gravity like
the farther you go the more it refines
itself it becomes almost

(01:13:22):
self-perpetuating this is why i've said
to people that
once you hit that that state of
neutrality
which is kind of what you were uh
communicating at the beginning of this
episode
there's no turning back right it's very
difficult to go back to egotism without
actually feeling yourself drop in energy
right like you you'll hit neutrality
you'll be like okay this is this is this

(01:13:44):
is okay this is neither good nor bad not
sure what to do or why i should do it
right
but you know at least i'm not focused on
myself
so there's a good thing and then it's
just practicing okay well doing so you
go do something without defining
yourself with it you start to realize
that oh wow that was me expressing my
growth again and everything becomes its
own reward and that leads to acceptance
and so on right but neutrality

(01:14:06):
neutrality changes everything you know
in power versus force hawkins says that
courage is really the defining line
between one energy level and another
that once you're willing to move forward
for its own purpose not for the reward
and not for fear of the consequence that
your mentality changes entirely and i
think that that's true to a degree but i

(01:14:27):
think neutrality is often where people
get scared
because courage still has that feeling
of
this is me right whereas neutrality is
just like drifting in space
right and you get there and it can be a
little freaky when you're used to
constantly being driven by your idea of
yourself

(01:14:47):
yeah right yeah i feel like i feel like
that's sort of where i'm at right now
and the idea of
drifting through space is kind of
like
it's kind of freaky it's it's freaky but
just
uncomfortable and feels like
why

(01:15:08):
do that but it's also at the same time
like we are doing that whether we think
we are
or we think we aren't whether we think
we have this control
of ego or not it's like
it's happening
whether you think it is or it isn't is
what i'm starting to realize more so
and even

(01:15:29):
on days like i used to i mentioned when
i wouldn't meditate in the morning i
would you know be a little bit concerned
you know if if something starts to go
awry
and then it hit me a couple days ago
that
things would go awry
either way and i handled it either way
and i i sort of attached this idea of

(01:15:51):
because i meditated for
10 or 15 minutes i was better able to
but i think there was a day like i did
meditate that i didn't meditate the next
day and both days things happen and both
days
i've figured it out you know and it just
sort of hit me that maybe
that isn't oh shoot just hit my mic um

(01:16:12):
maybe that isn't you know the x factor
and to the degree that i thought it was
because there was a day that i did
meditate and things went awry and i felt
just the same
so when i didn't
and
yeah but i think for a lot of people
including myself the idea of floating
through space is kind of it kind of

(01:16:34):
freaks you out because you're so used to
this idea of having a path and a
direction and
a way to progress and and all these
ideas of
where to get and the ideal place to be
yeah but there isn't yeah absolutely and
you know at that point
you can look for the old the old

(01:16:56):
reliable ways of gaining momentum right
which is desire or fear right um you
know fear of missing out is probably one
of my favorites right it's like oh god
there could be something over there
right
but
and you can do all of that that that's
the whole point about drifting in space
is and where do you want to go which
direction do you want to go right and
it's like well why why not

(01:17:16):
right like what's your alternative
sitting still you can do that too
right like either way you're still
being you're still doing everything
you're supposed to do
but it's it's being free of
of the meaning about you
right like that that's all it is is that
right right this doesn't
actually mean anything about me

(01:17:38):
personally it's just what i'm doing
right and what i can pull out of it
whereas we we tend to judge ourselves
for everything for everything because
it's just
it's preferable to sitting in space
that's what it is right it's like no no
i want to know where i am i know or who
i am
right as opposed to just being anything
i need to be given the moment that i'm

(01:18:00):
in given the experience that i'm having
right and so it's like no i'd rather be
a swiss army knife at the end of the day
like i would rather be
a
infinitely adaptable tool
than a one purpose function like i would
rather just just adapt to whatever's
happening and the more you adapt the
better you get at it right but that's
the thing about neutrality is that once

(01:18:20):
you're there
you can't fast track that progress and
that progression out of neutrality right
you actually have to get used to
neutrality and just doing things and
then as you do things then they they
become their own their own purpose their
own reason right it's whatever you do
and you've experienced that before like
you said you get into something it's
kind of like just laser focus on that

(01:18:41):
thing right
that's exactly the feeling where it's
not about you as a person
it's about the thing that you're digging
into it's like oh that's neat oh
what right like bitcoin and how it leads
you to the economy and money and
everything else like you can get into
that and you can define yourself as
being against the system and you can you

(01:19:01):
can build up your ego of yourself you
can be a revolutionary you can do all
that or you can look at all that
information and go wow
that's what's running this and get some
insights out of it and all of a sudden
you have grown as a person without
defining yourself in opposition to
something that's not going to change as
a result of your opposition anyway

(01:19:21):
yeah
yeah i've
that realization that
it's like you're always being yourself
and you're always changing at the same
time
and it seems like we've sort of
very much separated them even though
they're always both the case and we
think like oh i'm either changing
temporarily and not being myself and

(01:19:42):
then i'll be myself again or
i'm being myself
and i'm not changing
but it's like no part of being yourself
is
changing because you're always
both i'm not the same as i was when this
podcast began but i've been myself the
entire time
yeah

(01:20:04):
that was perfectly said i i can't
express that any perfectly that that's
perfect right and that's it and the same
is true for everybody
right
this is all me in different variations
same awareness completely different
circumstances completely different
expression right and and once you get to
that point it's very difficult to judge
people as we've said before

(01:20:25):
right and
we can't judge ourselves so how can we
judge them
i was just gonna say that ties directly
into the act of judgment and how
it's made it very difficult for me to ju
i still do
as everyone does certainly but
i catch myself very quickly and i catch

(01:20:46):
when it is happening
and i've i've made videos about that and
i'll have people commenting like
oh you know i can't
you know i could never you know be a
serial killer or something like i'm i'm
better than that i was like well get off
your high horse for a second and realize
that maybe
if you grew up in the same circumstances

(01:21:07):
as them
went through the same [ __ ] and had the
same
you know
dna
composition you
well you are them but you would be
you know this idea of them as well and
you would do
that
most likely
but i don't like that
that that makes my idea of myself very

(01:21:27):
uncomfortable and this goes back to the
brutal honesty right
it's
we can't understand what others do if we
accept that we have the capacity to do
the same
right so murderers will always go oh i
can't understand that they ever got here
until we recognize oh okay yeah i could
see if i followed that path of resent

(01:21:47):
far enough that path of identification
far enough that path of victimization
far enough that yeah it would make me
want to have that urge and if i followed
that even further and exacerbated it
with certain influences or certain
company
yeah i can see how in the vast spectrum
of the geography of our consciousness i
could end up in a deep dark place where

(01:22:08):
certain things make sense that wouldn't
otherwise
and and i think that that's important is
being able to recognize that it may not
make sense to me here and now
but that doesn't mean it doesn't make
sense
yeah yeah i think that's i was
meant to bring that up when we were
talking about you know serial killer
conversation is i think part of our way

(01:22:30):
through that or
i don't know i just having that sense of
empathy is realizing
that we're you're no different than
them and that if you had like you just
mentioned gone through all those same
scenarios situations
and everything that you would
act as they do but that yeah people

(01:22:53):
like to get on their high horse when it
comes to that conversation and think oh
there's no way and i'm like well who who
do you think you are with
you know
define yourself and if if you are
nothing more than your past experiences
and you know some
string of dna and whatnot and your

(01:23:13):
environment that you grew up in your
parental you know
seeing and whatever like that person
went through
the same types of things differently
and
here we are so
how could you think that you wouldn't
like how could you possibly say that
because you are nothing more than that

(01:23:35):
this idea of you
is that and this idea of them is that
so
it gets swapped and you are them
but the temptation is always so
so prominent that
if i judge them
i gain value
in comparison right if they're a bad

(01:23:56):
person i am good by contrast
and that's that's almost too juicy of a
tidbit to turn up
if you don't understand that that leads
to toxicity that leads to more judgment
comparison more lack and insecurity
later if you don't get all that then
you're just like yeah sign me up for the
moral superiority train right like i'm

(01:24:17):
good to go
and then when somebody comes along and
says well you know that person's life
had other contributing factors
they have an opportunity to either
be reasonable which is to question their
assumptions right or they're just going
to double down and then label you as a
sympathizer of evil
right so they can judge you and continue

(01:24:39):
to validate themselves again right and
so again it's
it's kind of 50 50. like you some people
are gonna take the opportunity to grow
and other people are gonna double down
on their ego um but i think or at least
what i'm finding more and more just to
tie back into the the uh conversation
that this podcast has been about this
episode that more and more people are
leaning towards questioning more and

(01:25:00):
more people are leaning away from the
old structured institutionalized uh
illusions of stability and security that
used to be there you know which is why i
enjoy it when i read articles about how
the number of people practicing
christianity is an all-time low it's
like yeah that's fantastic let's keep
that trend going right because they're

(01:25:21):
at an all-time low because
their environment and and the
experiences they're having
do not line up with the structure that
they're being told is the truth and so
out of necessity they're they're coming
into cognitive dissonance or rather
they're coming into extreme discomfort
because of that contradiction
and they have to walk away and find
something else which is leading them to

(01:25:41):
question other things which is
sometimes turning into um spirituality
of another kind where instead of
worshiping jesus their worshiping source
or whatever it may be but the point is
that it's a movement in the right
direction it's the movement towards the
habit of questioning if we can just have
the discussion about the danger of
settling on an answer then we'll

(01:26:02):
progress at a much faster rate i think
at least
yeah certainly and i think
what we were discussing before with with
the idea of judgment and not thinking
not being able to see yourself in
someone else's
shoes it's it's like you've mentioned
before sort of that side two sides of
the same coin where when it's you know
someone's less than you you you do it to

(01:26:24):
make yourself feel better but then it's
the same exact thing as when someone you
see someone that's you know better than
you you feel feel bad about yourself
it's the same sort of
thing just the same coin just two
different sides and and
that
judgment of the person seemingly lesser
than you that you couldn't see yourself
in is the same reason that you you know
feel bad and compare yourself to

(01:26:45):
everyone else in your life and feel bad
when you see people's highlight reels on
instagram or tic tac or wherever
facebook and
it's the same exact sort of thing so if
you're able to
see yourself in that person you think of
as less than you you won't get so tied
to that judgment on of yourself on the

(01:27:06):
other side of things when you're seeing
all this you know these fake lives on
social media
exactly right you don't tend to jump
into the assumptions as much it's like
shakespeare right nothing in the world
is good or bad but thinking makes it so
yeah one of my favorite quotes
so good it's so good and and it's it's
exactly for that reason it's that um

(01:27:27):
we get so caught up in our assumptions
that we forget that we're only
interacting with the world of
assumptions until we start to question
our assumptions and then it's all of a
sudden it's like not just the window
opens all the freaking walls disappear
you know suddenly you're you're in space
again and it really is that transition
between the illusion of being in a
bubble of your own creation that you can

(01:27:49):
convince you didn't create you can
convince everybody else forced you into
or you can convince you know there are
reasons to justify that that bubble or
you can question the point of all of it
and find yourself back in this state of
oh
i don't know what to do and then from
there moving forward avoiding the
pitfalls of identification avoiding the
pitfalls of you know reflexively

(01:28:10):
creating that bubble the real question
is what's possible
and
that's both true individually and
collectively and i think that that's
that's what's exciting to me is that
the question what's possible if we just
let go of what we know is coming to the
surface more
and
as we ask it
things are going to change and they are

(01:28:32):
changing it's just it's like a sleeping
giant
when it starts to roll over it starts
very slow
right but once it's in full swing
everything changes quick and that's
what's happening our mentality is
rolling over slowly but as it gains
momentum the whole system is going to
change as a result it's already
happening right but

(01:28:53):
as always the revolution will not be
televised
and all of that in mind we're at an hour
and a half again um we didn't i think
that's just the average episode length
at this point
we're going to wrap up but as always we
have a workshop happening on october
19th tuesday that's a four week workshop

(01:29:15):
once a week it's an hour and a half per
week and we will be discussing social
anxiety and some of the ways to deal
with that
additionally every third wednesday of
the month we have a patron only live
stream that we're going to be doing
andrew and i will be answering questions
for our supporters on patreon so you're
welcome to find that link in our bio as
well and of course we will see you next

(01:29:37):
week in episode 5.

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S.1 Ep.4: Going Back and Forth

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