S.1 Ep.5: Strength and Vulnerability w/ Eric Abrons

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode 5 of
duelist community today we have our
first guest on today but as you all know
i'm andrew
and i'm ray also andrew but in a
different body and playing different
characters
and our first guest ever on our podcast
is eric so welcome eric hey guys thank

(00:21):
you yeah i really appreciate it it's uh
it's an honor to be your first guest
it's a pleasure to have you i love your
content i i enjoy how sincere your
content is for sure
yeah no it's actually funny because i
watched both of your content for a while
and then you know i had somewhat of a
feeling that we would cross paths
somehow some way and like to be here now

(00:42):
is is really cool
yeah
so i have to ask um
how long have you been involved in this
conversation or just um i guess the
habit of introspection self self
reflection how long have you been
interested in this was it something that
just happened one day or is it a slow
build as a result of different
influences

(01:02):
i would say
really started getting into it about 17
18. i'm 21 now so
a few years i would say but i mean i've
always been
i don't want to say like different but
like you know
i've always been reserved and very
introverted and so
i
kind of always questioned and didn't

(01:22):
jive with what has been going on in
other people's thinking and what has
been put before me
um and i've always been into
self-development and sort of one thing
led me to another um i played basketball
my whole life and that led me into
fitness and then i sort of stripped it
of the vehicles and got straight to
self-development and you know started
reading a lot of books i went into carl

(01:44):
young learning about the shadow and the
dark side and all of these really
interesting uh concepts and
and then uh yeah i just kept going and
yeah and the more you learn the less you
realize that you know which is always an
interesting thing i know you guys talk
about that as well you know you
start learning so much and you're adding
so much to you and it is somewhat of an

(02:06):
ego thing
and you start to realize that and then
you're like well i'm just kind of
this awareness of of everything that
is going on and i can you know to my own
horn and you know say that i've acquired
all this knowledge that i've read all
these books but at the end of the day
like what does it really matter
if that makes sense
absolutely yeah i know that makes total

(02:27):
sense i remember when i first started
waking up a friend of mine who was
involved in the conversation with me
decided to take the path where it became
self-defining and we were having a
conversation about his need to get
followers and he's like well we came up
with this together no no no no this
isn't ours at all this is this is a
conversation that exists in every

(02:48):
observer observed relationship that has
the capacity to have this conversation
it's not ours we can't take credit for
it right that's that spiritual ego thing
yeah and i mean it's it's more just like
an opportunity and like that's what i
see all this is to continually learn and
grow but not attach myself to anything

(03:08):
and that's why i kind of started the
page infinite seeking because it's like
to take on all of these perspectives but
to know that i'm not these perspectives
that i'm not these thoughts i'm not
these beliefs now they may help me in
trying to understand certain concepts
and i can use them but when they start
to use me that that's when it can get
dangerous and you know you see a lot of
that in today's world so

(03:29):
yeah sure yeah yeah i feel like a lot of
it comes back to
not necessarily adding anything to
yourself but just peeling back
all of those things and all that
conditioning and all those things that
we've learned
over all these years and that's been one
of the biggest things for me because i
think it it's not always super easy
necessarily to you know not take credit

(03:51):
for things or not have this sort of
egotistical feeling about all these
things but what sort of grounds me is
just the idea of peeling all these
things back and this idea that you don't
have to
you know believe in
anything besides being that awareness of
what is here
and what is now

(04:13):
right yeah i mean i like to think that
almost everything is just recycled
knowledge that none of it's really new
which just the only thing that you can
sort of add that i guess is unique is is
your expression and the way that you
deliver it and i mean i see that with
both of you guys like you both have your
own unique style of how you
express these ideas and i think that's
what we can all bring to the table and

(04:35):
that's how we can you know inspire other
people to
i guess be on this journey and i mean as
it's in your podcast name like it's
about unity and not about division which
is what ego does which is not really
helpful
so not when it's uh taken too seriously
for sure not yet listen to all kinds of
problems that's amazing

(04:56):
and so you're 21 and you're having all
of these insights and i have to ask have
you stumbled across any insights
particularly that that really grabbed
your attention or things that you're
still pondering
not entirely sure of because i'll be
honest i'm not entirely sure that
physical reality is physical reality i
have no idea what i'm experiencing at

(05:18):
this point any more than i know who i am
well one thing that's interesting and
this is something that alan watts kind
of said which i would think you guys
might be familiar with alan watts but he
talks about how like the ego has no like
physical
presence but yet the ego is what runs
the whole world like everything is a
constructed reality and if it's all a
constructive reality like and i mean it

(05:40):
gets into this thing about
our world is
is an illusion in the sense that it's
all just made up and we're all just
going along with it as though it makes
sense
and like i walk around and you know i'm
a very observant person and i people
watch them it's just like everyone's
pretending like we're all in this grand
illusion together

(06:00):
and you know some like you kind of have
to participate to a degree or else that
you're not a functioning member of
society and what are you going to do go
live in the woods i mean you could do
that i've thought about it you know i
keep thinking about one day you know
just getting a hut in the mountain and
just
living there but
yeah i mean that that's something i mean
i'm certainly not certain about anything

(06:21):
which i think it's going to stay that
way and
you know at some times i may feel more
confident about an idea or not but then
i i just remind myself that i'm sort of
a fool in the end
even just to be
pondering all of this i think like
that's just beyond our comprehension and
sometimes we just have to take a back
seat and just just just be here and

(06:43):
you know
let the experience be what it is and if
you can make it a pleasant one you know
do that
as best you can yeah yeah just a leaf on
the river
exactly um but yeah
yeah i think i think ray brings us up a
lot the the idea of questioning and
questioning everything and the only
thing you have to be careful of is
settling on an answer

(07:05):
and yeah you mentioned uh living in the
forest or going out into the woods
somewhere and ray actually did that for
what was it are you really monsters yeah
like 16 17 years ago eight months in the
woods that was good times but yeah i've
seen some of your videos with your
longer hair was that around when that
was that's after i came out of the woods
yeah look at it yeah cheap webcam and i

(07:27):
just had so much to say and i i ended up
recording almost 100 videos in like
three months
it was sick i was filling up the whole
10 minute limit it was pretty bad but uh
one thing that really dawned on me and
it's a good story is that
so this man goes into the mountains to
find enlightenment stays up there for
years meditating coming to peace with
himself finally he's like yes i've got

(07:48):
it i'm good to go i'm at peace with
reality and he comes back down from the
mountain talks to one person and the
village turns right back around and goes
back up the mountain and it's because
it's like krishnamurti said you know we
see
ourselves without distortion in our
relationships with others
so people are almost

(08:09):
necessary if not necessary i would say
that it's like you were saying we almost
have to participate well we almost want
to participate because we're
participating with ourselves it's all
self-exploration right right so as long
as we're not getting the idea of ourself
in the way there's infinite lessons that
we can learn
right yeah we tend to be so
self-absorbed but it's like even if we

(08:30):
look into other people like we see
ourselves like everything is really
a reflection of yourself including how
you see the world like you
if you're an anxious person you're going
to go out and you're going to be anxious
because you know that's the story that
you're telling yourself it's you know we
tell ourselves so many stories and that
that just makes up a reality and then
we're confined to it and
we just become this limited character to

(08:52):
a certain point you know like learning
about the subconscious and i think like
i've heard a thousand times but that
like
by the age of 35 95 of what you do is
just a subconscious program and you're
just on autopilot and that's like what i
see when i look out into the world and
it's uh it's a little bit sad because at
what point are you not even a human
being are you
just this

(09:13):
like
me robot program thing like walking
around
doing what you've done and doing
everything that you've adopted
you know uh sad guru says something he
says that
beliefs are dying in installments
and it's just like
you know you just like lose what you are
over time
um
and like i try to talk about being a kid

(09:35):
a lot cause like when you think back to
when you were a kid you were just so
curious you asked so many questions and
some of them may seem ridiculous but i'd
rather ask ridiculous questions than not
ask any questions at all
so
explore without judgment right that's
the best part about being a kid it's
funny one of my favorite words i've
brought this up before is uh enthusiasm

(09:55):
because the etymology of enthusiasm is
actually an and theos which is to be
possessed by god
makes perfect sense when we're being
ourselves when we're not trying to be
something we're not trying to live up to
other people's expectations we are
actually in alignment with what is so we
are quite literally filled with god just
doing what we're doing for its own
purpose and i think that's

(10:17):
that is unfortunately what we lose over
time and a large part of that's the
schooling system and our over commitment
to conceptualization um my daughter's 14
i've had to ride this weird balance
raising her between teaching her
concepts and then teaching her not to
take those concepts too seriously
we never got that in school it was just
like learn this

(10:38):
test is coming up next week
yeah yeah
yeah i feel i feel like one of the
biggest differences too between just
like kids and adults is
not that anyone has answers but it's
like the adults just start playing like
they do
or you know those questions start
getting asked like why is this why is
this and you just start saying it just

(10:58):
is the way it is or you know you box
something up and you package it up and
you say you know this is right this is
wrong here's an answer
and you don't have to
question it anymore and it's like the
idea of questioning just almost goes
away once you begin to grow up because
i think a lot of it is because it's

(11:19):
uncomfortable and people are uncertain
and they they like to feel certain and
they like to feel safe and they like to
know that you know they're going to live
forever and you know it's gonna be all
hunky-dory for for eternity and
and it's like
you know settling on those things and
settling
on an answer is
part of part of the issue that many

(11:40):
people find and so i think it actually
leads to more struggles than people
tend to admit or tend to even realize
yeah absolutely i mean it's like it's
like a safety thing like we're
protecting ourselves from
the truth of the matter that we don't
know that we do live in an
uncertain universe with so many

(12:03):
questions that are not answered but
i mean it's also just about almost like
fitting in like we would rather
be
be wrong with the group than be right on
our own and it's like you want to
be able to you know have that friend
group you want to be able to go out into
the world and just be
with everyone else and it's like if
you're that odd one out that is

(12:24):
questioning everything that isn't
jiving with everything and what everyone
is saying then it's like where do you
fit in all this and
to most people that's that's just not
it's not worth it
i mean for me it's obviously the
opposite for you guys it's i can see
it's obviously the opposite
and um
yeah i mean i i don't want to live in a
falsified reality just because it gives

(12:46):
me this
this sense of comfort
because like i can see right through
that sense of comfort i'd rather sit in
that uncertainty sit in all the
possibilities that always exist and and
explore that and actually see all the
beauty of of being this sliver of
awareness in this
consciousness generated universe that
doesn't make any sense whatsoever and

(13:08):
it's
i mean like it's absurd and like albert
camus talks about this like at any
street corner like you can just stop and
realize like
this is just all absurd that we're all
doing this you know
absolutely i had uh i had just an
endless night of laughing once i i just
just thinking about the fact that it was
2012 at the time it's like

(13:30):
why
why is it 2012. it's not like we've only
been around 2012 years and we just
started with jesus dying
why you know and so you look at the age
of the earth you look at all of that and
you write and you're like right right
right just because we want a point of
reference we just we don't like
feeling like we don't know i mean this
is why we come up with answers that
don't even make sense like i always get

(13:52):
a kick out of people who believe in
numerology and then they'll say
something like oh it's august 8th
that's an important day 8 8 it's like
right because of pope gregory randomly
and arbitrarily making this august
eighth
it's not actually based on anything real
the number itself is irrelevant i mean
it was arbitrarily made it's not like

(14:12):
it's actually august 8th
and yet we take it and we run with it
because it gives us some sense of
certainty like we know what's going to
happen
when the potential in each moment is in
not knowing what's going to happen
that's why i find it really funny i
don't know if you recently caught
andrea's video on religion but uh he was
questioning

(14:33):
the entire idea of god and the universe
and everything else and out of the
woodwork came all the theists quite
angry about it and it's not because he
was asking something you know that that
shouldn't be discussed it was because
they don't want to discuss it they just
want to hold on to what they think is or
what they want to think is the truth so
they don't have to question it anymore

(14:53):
and it's like okay but what you're doing
is standing on a chair
just waiting for someone to kick it out
that's all you're doing
right why would you put yourself in that
position
and to them it makes perfect sense it's
because well because if i do well then
the story tells me i'm doing the right
thing despite all the consequence i'm
witnessing in my life every day

(15:15):
right
yeah i mean i guess for some people it's
like religion is the one thing they have
it's like their backbone is the thing
they can fall back on because they don't
have themselves i guess and
i feel like when you don't have
yourselves not in like a ego way like
not yourself as in like your god i guess
you could say that if you want but like

(15:37):
you don't take on the responsibility
that this experience is happening
through you
and
so it's like you have to believe in
something else
and the belief is what you're clinging
to is what you're latching on to and
with without that it's like you're
completely lost you have you have no
no sense of self no

(15:58):
no anything really and
you know i think that's a lot of what
religion does it so that you can avoid
avoid yourself
in in a way yeah
would yourself avoid responsibility
exactly
anything and everything and
yeah it's it's so

(16:19):
interesting when when you begin to
question these things because people
hold on to them and it is like their
security blanket but i think it's
actually
thai because religion has become such an
intertwined part of our lives and our
culture that it's almost just assumed
like you know it it makes it easier to
raise kids they start asking questions

(16:39):
just give them these answers that we
made up thousands hundreds like
thousands of years ago whatever
and i think it's actually and ray and i
have talked about this before a lot more
intertwined with things like mental
health struggles and anxiety than people
care to admit because they have this
security and these answers and once it's

(17:01):
questioned or you know once they feel
uncertain about something else or like
they don't have control which they never
actually did to begin with they start to
feel
extreme forms of anxiety and if you're
able to
question
the thing that you're most sure of and
the things in your life that you're most

(17:22):
sure of both about you know whatever it
may be religion yourself society
you become a little bit just a little
bit more comfortable in those
uncomfortable uncertain
uncontrolled situations and it it bleeds
into every other part of your life and
then all of a sudden you know there's a
really uncomfortable really uncertain

(17:43):
situation you're like oh i've i've done
this before i can handle this instead of
being like oh [ __ ] the world's ending
like [ __ ] everything's going wrong and i
can't handle this because i don't have
my security blanket
right
you know i mean i actually do definitely
see that that connection i mean because
it just comes back to the same thing
that like people need something

(18:05):
to to like fall back on and
and
you know they're
avoiding the problem and they're not
actually getting to the root of what's
there and it's just
it's uh
yeah i mean it's just it's just it's a
safety mechanism so you don't actually
have to
sit in reality sit with yourself sit in
that space of awareness and you know

(18:27):
develop a relationship with yourself you
know see that that there is an ego there
see that there is an idea for yourself
you know see all these patterns that you
have you know your behavior start to go
into your psychology like see that you
have parts of your parts of your
so-called like shadow that are
determining
certain aspects of your life but all of

(18:49):
that once again like you have to be
accountable for that you have to take on
the responsibility and i think that
that's kind of what free will free will
is
and we all talk about wanting to be free
and and and having all these abilities
and yet we dismiss them when we have the
opportunity to actually
take them on and so it's like do we
really want to things that we talk about

(19:10):
or do we just want the idea of it and
it's like i feel like most of us are
obsessed with and we sort of glorify the
idea but then the actual process and
going through all of it is something
that very few people actually want to do
yeah
that's it because it's uncomfortable
you actually have to face things you
have to be brutally self-honest but we

(19:30):
get caught up in a lot of stuff like
that i remember uh i was a motivational
speaker once upon a time way back like
two decades ago and uh yeah i'm old
and what i noticed was that
outside having a cigarette talking to a
bunch of the guys that were there
they're all stoked like yeah man i'm
gonna rock it i'm gonna make next month
record month blah blah blah and it's

(19:51):
like oh great well what have you been
doing how many calls have you made blah
blah blah oh nothing but you know i got
the latest dvd on this guy and he's
speaking and he's raising me up and it's
like okay so you're spending all of your
time trying to feel motivated but you're
not actually moving
you're not going anywhere you're more
concerned with how you feel
than moving forward and so yeah it just
becomes running in the same spot because

(20:13):
it's comfortable and familiar and you're
not moving forward at all because moving
forward requires you to leave what you
know like it's it's an act of rebirth in
itself
and for christians
well i don't know what's next
oh i know what i'll do i'll have faith
in jesus or faith in god that this is
going to happen or that this is going to
go this way which isn't faith it's just

(20:34):
the another illusion of control
yeah
i feel like i almost kind of got caught
up with that and we've talked about this
about like meditation and and getting
caught up in
that was sort of something i got caught
up in after i sort of moved on from
religion was getting into more of the
spiritual
side of things things like meditation

(20:56):
and i was almost
like allowing myself to cling to that
and believing that that was helping me
throughout the day so and this is very
recent for me and i'm still like going
back and forth like some days i meditate
some days i don't just because i feel
like it but i was almost clinging to
this idea that meditation was what was
helping me deal with situations

(21:17):
throughout the day and i was i it was
something outside of myself that i was
doing and so when i wouldn't meditate i
would feel a little bit uncomfortable
and then when a situation would come up
later in the day i'd be like oh [ __ ] i
didn't meditate this morning like am i
gonna be able to handle this
and i started to realize oh wow that's
just me clinging on to a different

(21:37):
belief and it's almost
basically no different than clinging to
any other belief system or idea outside
of myself and
i think a lot of people get caught up in
that
once they leave
religions they kind of get caught up in
the spirituality side of it and and it's

(21:57):
still that avoidance
of self and and not having that sort of
deeper trust in yourself and and i'm
just realizing this
recently very recently so it's like as
i'm going through it i enjoy being able
to talk about it as well because you
know these things aren't easy that's why
so many people cling to them

(22:19):
yeah i mean that makes perfect sense
like you do something enough and it's
associated with a feeling and then you
start you know telling yourself a story
about that and then
once you don't have that thing you think
that it's missing because it's something
that's attached to some to something
outside of yourself and
and then it's like everything's always a

(22:39):
label there's always something to
you know mask
yourself and just learning that that
that stays within you it's not attached
to this idea of meditation or this thing
that you can do and i mean a lot of
these practices are great but
if they're only if you can only attain
them within

(22:59):
you know
that story that you're telling yourself
that i have to meditate to to have that
that instead of like i can just have my
breath with me that i can remind myself
that my breath is always with me that i
don't have to have this idea that i've
done a full i've done a full meditation
and that i'll feel good doing that
um
but
but yeah i mean it's it's interesting
you say that i mean i feel like we

(23:20):
always get get caught up in one thing or
another and that's just like part of our
our learning process and i mean it's an
imperfect thing and you know sometimes
you lose that awareness for a second and
then you come back and you're like oh
okay got it and then like you're right
back to to where you were
yeah absolutely absolutely it's uh one
of my favorite quotes is from uh the

(23:41):
lazy man's guide to enlightenment and
it's if you find yourself being
resistant don't resist your resistance
that's good
you are where you are that's pretty much
it right but we do get caught up in
fictions we do get caught up in telling
ourselves even even just little stories
like
after i i started waking up i would go
through this this process of oh i'm

(24:03):
judging myself oh i'm assuming something
oh i'm trying to tell myself this to
make myself feel more secure
and
talking to a buddy of mine going through
this i would say something like you know
it's really hard to stop judging myself
you know it's really hard to stop
assuming things about people and right
there i was telling myself another story
that was justifying me not changing i

(24:23):
was telling myself it was hard so that
way it would be so i didn't have to do
it right and so as soon as i stopped
telling myself it was hard i had no more
excuses and then i found
the ability to get past those things but
as long as i was putting the story
between me and the actual movement
forward couldn't move
yeah yeah

(24:44):
well yeah i mean it's like
like just like our constant need to just
i don't know like label every experience
that we have whether it's good or bad or
or this or that like we can't just let
it be what it is and i feel like we can
sometimes miss out on
what something can be trying to show us
or teach us because we say that it's
that it's good or bad that it's
something that i want to be experienced

(25:04):
that i should be experiencing and and so
that's just where our ego sort of takes
the wheel and it
tries to steer us in a certain direction
depending on what we label certain
things
you know yeah
yeah and
there's there's almost like two sort of
routes alan watts talks about this a
little bit like the the pointy versus

(25:26):
the wavy and i've always been on the
pointy rigid structured to-do list like
very much
enjoy having things planned out like
have a set morning routine you know like
work out meditate walk whatever and
realizing that it's not like questioning

(25:47):
the reasons that i was doing that is
kind of where it started and then
realizing that it's not
necessary and then
sort of going
back and forth between allowing things
to be and sort of flow a little bit more
and then the last few weeks i've been
trying to like
like trying to allow things to flow a
little bit more and realizing that

(26:09):
that's a little bit uncomfortable for me
and then
when i would be on one side or the other
i would be like oh i'm being too flowy
i'm being too you know pointy and
and i think it's important just along
the way to realize that whichever side
you're on is
the flow and to not judge yourself along
the way and there was something that hit

(26:30):
me a couple days ago because i'm you
know with the whole self-improvement
line of things i'm always you know a big
thing was like not procrastinating and i
found myself i was i had my workout
stuff on and i was like sitting at my
computer like watching uh youtube videos
and i came across i watched like three
when i wanted to be going to the gym so
i like felt like i was procrastinating

(26:51):
so i was sort of like judging myself as
i was doing it and i came across this
video there was two guys in the fitness
and
psychedelic industry that were
interviewing each other and they were
talking about um one of them asked them
like what is three to five year plan was
and the other guy got really triggered
by that apparently it's something he
doesn't like to think about and doesn't

(27:11):
you know he struggles with that idea and
in that it hit me that like everyone's
struggling with something and it was
this idea that was kind of i thought of
before but hadn't thought of recently so
long story short
even though i was procrastinating in my
head like this insight hit me from the
third video i had watched that i wasn't
wouldn't have hit me if i hadn't been

(27:33):
you know like procrastinating so it was
like oh maybe i wasn't procrastinating
maybe i was just being here and now
doing something and i got this insight
out of it and then i went and worked out
like there was nothing lost and it just
hit me that like you don't have to
you know feel shame and judge yourself

(27:54):
along every
step of the way and it's something that
i've just been going back and forth with
a lot
recently
yeah i mean and you found that like you
found that insight because like you were
you were open to that insight like you
could have just been closed off and
dwelled on it and say like uh like i
shouldn't have done that i feel like
[ __ ] and i'll you know i'll go do this
workout or i even won't do this workout

(28:15):
now because i feel like [ __ ] and you
know but it's like we all have that
internal critic that is always
finding an issue or a problem with with
something and it's like
like now is never enough like we can't
just just just be in the moment and
accept and embrace it all and embrace it
for all it is because it's like we have
this need to to label everything that is

(28:37):
going on it's like we're narrating
everything that's going on in our head
like should i be doing this is this
productive is this leading me in the
direction
that i want to go in like even though
it's like
where are you going like what sort of
destination like do you have for
yourself um and like that's something
that i remind myself of and it's like as
long as i'm as long as i'm open to to

(29:00):
feeling however i'm feeling and
embracing
what's going on then like that's
then like i'm good with things you know
like i don't have to
be so hard on myself and when i catch
myself i remind myself that that's just
a thought that's arising in my head and
i can let it go and you know i can
choose whatever conscious direction that
i want to go on you know if i wanted to
read a book i'll pick up a book if i

(29:22):
wanted to go to the gym i'll go to the
gym but i try not to create too much of
like a rigid time frame for it
as long as i'm i'm doing it and i'm
aware of what i'm doing
yeah
flow state right the zone and it's
really just about
being there all the time we're where we
are i mean we are what is we are always

(29:43):
in alignment that's the one thing that
always used to crack me up it's like how
do i be more present
with how can you be more present you are
the present there's there's no way for
me to answer that that like you are the
present stop avoiding it there you go um
but
it's just in it's funny how the learning
becomes less about learning and more
about

(30:03):
recognizing when we're getting caught up
in an illusion
and the more we do that the quicker it
happens like i i used to go through what
i used to call the roller coaster from
hell i would just go through one thought
to another thought to another thought
and i would go up and down and up and
down and just try to work my way through
that stuff to find some clarity and as i
did that i noticed the spikes weren't as
high and they happened you know farther

(30:24):
and farther apart and then you know five
ten years later
i i recall just thinking i don't even
remember what i used to think about
right now another 10 years after that
it's mostly quiet
right it's not that
thinking doesn't happen it's just that
it happens when it's necessary and the
rest is just kind of like yeah that's
happening in the background i'll leave

(30:45):
that alone
but it's the detachment that we're
learning it's it's the faith in
ourselves
yeah i find myself sometime
sometimes when i'm almost like when my
mind gets pretty quiet
i'm like
[ __ ] should i like how do i how do i be
like trying to remember
how to be and i'm like oh there is no

(31:06):
like there is nothing i ever ever have
to remember
just just being here now just aware of
what is like it'll hit me sometimes just
walking down the stairs in my apartment
like because there's not really anything
it's like six flights of stairs and so
it takes a little while and i'm not
really thinking about anything
like oh [ __ ] should i should i be like

(31:28):
what should i be doing it's almost like
this this ego attachment to like
need to be
striving for something or remembering
something it's like a subconscious
trigger
of needing to focus on something and
it's like the only thing you ever have
to remember is is
the awareness of what is and you are it

(31:49):
and
and
that's it it's it's like pretty
awesome
and it has its own action
yeah right like that's the thing is is
we get caught up in well if i don't plan
how am i going to know what to do
trust yourself you'll know what to do
that's the whole point once you're in
the situation you are what completes
that picture you're what completes that

(32:10):
moment of course you're going to know
what to do this is what jesus was saying
with my words are my fathers right i
don't have to worry about what to say
i'm always going to say what i'm
supposed to say
it's not about getting in the way right
but we analyze and then we tend to to
critique because
we want it to go our way and that's
always based on a lack of clarity it's
always based on us thinking about

(32:30):
ourselves as an idea
yeah
and if anything like the ego can fog
things because it doesn't let your
intuition you know speak to you and
that's what i feel like will lead you in
the right direction sometimes it's
spontaneous sometimes it's not planned
out whatsoever and that's when some
insight comes to you and you know i'm
reading think and grow rich and they

(32:51):
talk about the infinite intelligence and
how like you can tap into like this
collective consciousness and all of
these ideas but not when you're always
thinking not when your mind is always
active and you're always stimulated and
you're thinking about like what should i
be doing what should i not be doing it's
like you're constantly judging yourself
and i find sometimes i'm trying to
remember

(33:11):
something from a book that i read or a
certain insight and then i can't
remember it and then i i get frustrated
and i get overwhelmed like why can't i
think about like that one quote or that
one idea
and then it just goes in circles and
then sometimes i'll stop i'll just stop
i'll stop resisting and stop trying to
look for it and then like a day later a
couple hours later 30 minutes or
whatever it is my subconscious will pop
it up into my mind and i'm like all

(33:33):
right so like if i don't actively try to
search for it like maybe it'll just come
back around
so yeah
when yeah when you're silent it speaks
when you speak it's silent absolutely
yeah i think that's an alan watts quote
it sounds like
yeah he's one of my favorite guys but
yeah it's it's so true and i find that
too like i'll i'll think of a video idea

(33:53):
will hit me and then i'll get caught up
like for the next 30 minutes if i don't
have somewhere i can film or write it
down i'm like it's running through my
head like don't forget this one don't
forget this one and a lot of times i'll
just write down real quick or just like
a few words and allow it to be and just
let it go and that helps but a lot of
times too if i'm struggling like if i

(34:15):
have a video idea and then it's not
exactly how i want to say it i'll just
put it off and and let it be and you
know
like you said a couple hours or
sometimes it's like a couple weeks later
it'll come back and hit me and it'll be
like i'm in a situation and because i'm
fully there present it'll sort of come
back to me and hit me like oh this is

(34:36):
applicable to this situation because of
this and then this is actually like a
sort of new situation for me but this
applies very well to this and because
i'm there and not clouded by trying to
you know figure it out on my own it just
sort of comes back and it's only when
you're
silent does it come back

(34:58):
yeah i know i i hear you that's the same
in martial arts it's uh there's a point
where you're thinking about what you're
doing and you kind of learn the
structure and and you learn what's
appropriate in certain situations but
after that beyond that point it really
comes back down to self-reflection it
really comes down to in the moment how
are you feeling are you tense are you
stressed are you afraid and that's all

(35:19):
just self-honesty and so you have to let
go of this idea of control and just come
into alignment with what is and then
when you're there
different things become
optional their different opportunities
just tend to appear
but
we always assume
the opportunities that we see in our
head before we get there are the only
opportunities that are going to be there

(35:39):
despite the fact that we're not in the
situation that we're going into at all
right so it's just throw yourself in
leap
yeah see what happens
yeah and i mean sometimes what helps me
and something that i have been doing for
a while kind of like talking to myself
and like opening up a dialogue within
myself and sometimes treating my ego as
another person and so it's like i'm

(36:00):
literally like talking out loud or i'm
talking to myself in the mirror and like
i can get actually a lot of clarity for
that or i can if i'm frustrated with
someone or with with something or i
think i have a problem or something i
have to solve i'll just
put it out loud and then start talking
to myself and i feel like that can
that can help me to
to let something go or to just become

(36:21):
more aware or to you know have more
direction and on what i'm trying to do
or what i'm trying to
to figure out or
you know if there's a reoccurring
thought that i'm having in my mind like
i'll just start talking about like where
is this coming from why am i having to
start like retrace everything
um
and like that's also just
really getting to know myself you know

(36:43):
because i feel like there's
as much as it is simple as the awareness
like i feel like we are also complex in
terms of our our psyche and you know all
the different things that are going on
or if i wake up in the morning and i
have a weird dream because i've started
to like learn or not started but i've
gone back and forth between like
learning about dreams and whatnot and
trying to remember them and how

(37:04):
there's a there's a whole nother world
in like the dream world and that
influences what we do in our conscious
life but the unconscious is like the
iceberg and all of that is beneath the
surface and yet it has such a powerful
hold on like what we do
and
you know so i'll try and find the the
symbolism and what certain things mean

(37:24):
and if it there's a pattern in dreams
that i have and
and what that means and you know why i'm
not getting past something and you know
why i feel stuck and why this is
happening and and just trying to
get to the rid of those things but then
also
relaxing and not taking them too
seriously so they don't have a complete
hold of my life even though i do

(37:44):
value what's going on there
yeah that's fair i went through a phase
where uh i was into dream interpretation
and i was trying to use a dream more
often and uh
projection yeah absolutely gateway
experience the whole thing um and
after a while i kind of came out of it
thinking
okay this is cool don't get me wrong but

(38:08):
what am i really trying to do and and so
rather than trying to do anything in the
dream i try to more or less just break
down the division between this
experience and the dream because there
really isn't much difference except for
the continuity of the reality right
because in our dreams
there is less continuity time doesn't
work the same way right there's not as
much stability you can go from one room

(38:29):
to a field right there's no continuity
whatsoever here you have to walk through
the house to the door out to the field
there's more of a linear timeline right
so our dreams are are
are i guess you would say poorly built
realities or rather realities on the fly
but they give us the ability to
experience things that we can't
experience here that we need to

(38:50):
experience in order to progress in the
next in the next evolution of our
thought process or the evolution of our
recognition so now i just i just go to
sleep and what's funny is that
i don't really sleep like i i go from
being awake to lucid dreaming to waking
up and so it's almost like i'm not
sleeping i'm just going from one place
to another and then back

(39:12):
and
it gets really interesting but it
doesn't work if you're trying to analyze
it
you have to just be in it as if you are
here
you right so do you lose a dream like
every night
yeah mostly mostly except when i'm sick
so yeah like what is that like exactly
is that by lucid dreaming is that at all

(39:33):
like [ __ ] projection like how aware
do you feel while you're doing that like
what i'm aware of myself i see i'm aware
that i'm me um that doesn't mean i'm
aware that i'm rey
but i'm aware that i'm me and i think
that's a large part of the journey that
i've taken in my waking life as well as
the recognition that i'm not ray which
has allowed me to more easily adapt to

(39:55):
every dream where i'm not ready where
i'm playing a completely different
character and so rather than resisting
it which causes nightmares you know in
the same way psychedelics do you just
kind of go into it you're like hey cool
i'm a [ __ ] dragon right and you just
have a great time but it's just letting
it happen right and allowing yourself to
be whatever form you take in whatever

(40:16):
reality you're in but we try to control
it because we identify as this body we
identify as this character and that just
messes everything up
so
so you know
you're dreaming when you're sleeping and
you're able to
like how i've never i don't think i've
ever lucid dreamed in my life or astral

(40:37):
projected or anything but i had like
what was that like getting
to that point that you do it now every
night that seems kind of crazy to me
well
it's a process like everything else i
mean it's not like i went out of my way
to be able to lucid dream in all honesty
it just kind of happened as a result of

(40:58):
me just breaking down all of my
perceptions and assumptions of reality
itself right like i look at
the experience we're having kind of like
a movie reel right
but we tend to think oh the movie stops
when we go to sleep but it doesn't it
just changes room it just changes
reality right so the the reel continues
on i'm the real right and so as soon as
i stop saying there's a difference

(41:19):
between being awake and being asleep or
dreaming i started experiencing it that
way
but we hold on to this idea of dreams as
something that's not real as something
that's insubstantial right in the same
way that we hold onto the idea of
imagination which i always find
hilarious because if there's anything
that tips us off to how vast our
awareness is it's our imagination

(41:41):
yeah i mean yeah it's still even when
you're dreaming it's still the moment
you're just not conscious of it in the
same way but i mean that's your
unconscious there's still
a lot going on there it that moment is
still existing you're just in that in
that sleep state and that's why i guess
i've been trying to explore it because i
want to
live this experience fully and i feel
like i mean we sleep so much of our life

(42:04):
so i guess if i could try to uncover
some of the the meaning there or
anything at all without getting too
obsessed over it
and having it control too much of my
conscious life
um
you know
i want to
seek and explore that avenue it'll
happen on its own right but yeah and

(42:25):
so
i don't express this to people often
because
by all appearances i'm a completely
normal person i've got a job and i live
in society and so on and so forth but i
experience reality in a way that that
i i can't explain it's like i'm holding
on by my fingernails almost all the time
and at some point i just want to let
that go and just just free flow through
my life but

(42:46):
it's very much just
i'm just kind of drifting along there's
almost nothing left of the idea of me
and so when i go to sleep
that's what takes hold that's that's
what changes the dream it's it's who i
am going into it so
it's a natural progression of just
questioning yourself

(43:06):
that sounds extremely liberating to you
know just feel like there's not this
idea you have to
continue to put on this face and say
certain things in a certain way or try
to impress certain people or you know
anything like you're just gonna be in
whatever happens around around you it's
outside of your control and you know you
you let that happen and

(43:27):
yeah you like and you let yourself
happen you know so yeah
your strings are cut
i i posted this one my friend sent me a
little meme today on my instagram story
of these two people
at dinner and they were like on a date
probably like first date or something
and then there were two versions of them
that were bigger that were like
puppeteers and the people at the table

(43:48):
were smiling and laughing and puppeteers
were like sweating and like uh like you
know the sweaty guy behind the curtain
in the wizard of oz and and i just said
you know cut the strings just be here
and now and it's like it seems like
you're sort of in a state where those
strings are
completely cut and i think there's
differing degrees to that with different

(44:10):
people and some people you know have
lots of lots of strings and they're very
strong strings but
and that's okay
like
every once in a while strings will form
because i have a job i i have things i
have to consider i have a kid i i work
in in society i do all that right so
there are there are things that i have
to maintain in order to do that

(44:30):
relationships and so on and so forth
right but
it's it's just like teaching my kid that
concepts are one thing but don't take
them too seriously and it's exactly the
same right it's when i see strings form
when i form strings like you know my
boss thinks i'm this person or this
person thinks you know i am this kind of
person
it's
for the the purpose of that experience

(44:51):
it's for the purpose of that
relationship right and
i just never convinced myself it's me
like i have a job as a marketing
director i am not a marketing director i
just have that job that's just what i
call myself it's the same was when i was
life coaching
people were like well you're this isn't
really life coaching i'm like i know but
i can't just call myself a guy who knows
stuff nobody's going to come

(45:11):
to the spirit like to use my service
because that's not very specific so it's
just
understanding that you're never what you
think you are no matter what you think
you are you're wrong right always
and when you have that awareness like
the pull isn't as strong you know it's
not like you're unaware and then you're
playing that role because then you think
you are that role and it's like that's

(45:32):
to like the degree which you you know
that you kind of have to participate
that you have to take on that label for
a second but while you're doing it you
know that it's it's not you but you
understand that that's kind of what it
means to be a human being like at least
in in this world and in our constructed
reality today
yeah today

(45:52):
you know i i i do have faith that this
is going to change at some point i do
see it changing our priorities as a
species are changing um what we look at
as as necessary as a workday is changing
and admittedly why why shouldn't it
everything else is changing technology
is changing our perception of ourself
and the world is changing so yeah no i
don't think that

(46:13):
i don't think it's always going to be so
uncomfortable to have this state of mind
where we are questioning in a world that
is built on not questioning i i think
that in in my lifetime alone i have seen
the evolution over the last 20 years i i
was the odd man out always having this
conversation like people would shun me
it's like oh christ here comes rey
i remember one person actually asking me

(46:34):
why do you always have to think so
deeply
really that's a question you're asking
me that so um but 20 years later
we're having this conversation and it's
not just us there's more and more people
having it and it is changing things and
of course you're seeing you know the
legalization of cannabis you're seeing
legalization of some psychedelics and

(46:55):
some experimentation into mental health
and
these are all huge it's funny because
here in canada they legalized cannabis i
think it was two or three years ago
and i was explaining to my daughter like
one day
one day people who are no longer afraid
of using this are going to run for
office they're going to be running for
politics they're going to be running
businesses they're going to have more
sway with less stress and anxiety and

(47:17):
judgment that's immediately changing the
world
yeah
yeah i mean i i hope for that change too
i mean
but obviously like i still somewhat
not worry but i'm aware of the
technological advantages and how those
are more tools for the ego and more
personas that can be created and
although i agree with you i think we're
making advantages in some ways we're

(47:38):
also
advancing other things that are
extensions and abstractions of
the ego that actually get us further and
further away from ourselves and enable
us to live on the surface level more
and you know kind of avoid what we
actually are we you know and
so it's like i see it in both ways and
obviously i can only kind of experience

(48:00):
life for myself and in my own awareness
and
those things are outside of my control
but you know
i'm definitely like observing all of it
and uh
yeah i mean
yeah so that's a really good point
because
the world that we're living in right now
is
is giving people more more escapes but

(48:21):
at the same time it's also creating more
consequence with all of those escapes
right which is what's creating the need
to change in other people so it's like
we're having this polarity split
where you have those who want to be
irresponsible and they have this candy
land of stuff to be irresponsible
and then all of the consequences of that
irresponsibility waking up the

(48:42):
occasional other person
that this isn't working that there's
more to this than what they assumed so
i think a part of this is necessary i
think you know very much like we were
saying last week and in the other
podcast as a forest fires is sometimes
necessary i think that
this is what's going to help us
go to another state of mind where we see

(49:02):
things
slightly differently but i i don't know
necessarily if it's going to happen with
or without some cataclysm i'm really
hoping that that it can happen just as a
result of us
wanting
to make it happen but um i think that
as people resist the state of mind as as
or they run from it they're going to
inevitably cause more consequence for

(49:23):
themselves and i think that's what we're
seeing i think that again we have that
split where you have more people walking
away and just being in the present and
then a lot more people just trying to
bury themselves in whatever distraction
or escape they can yeah and i mean the
other thing i see too is just more and
more labels that creates more and more
divide and more and more
ego and that also kind of kind of kind

(49:45):
of has us going in the in the opposite
direction of where i think that we want
to be
headed in
and
i don't know like i
i try not to lean in
i try not to to create any expectations
of where i
think things are
going to go but
you know i just see a lot of people like

(50:05):
justifying what they do and that they'll
blow things up and cause a lot of
destruction as long as as as as long as
that's justified by their by their truth
and by you know their mission and what
they think that they're they're doing
for the so-called greater good
um
and i don't know like i feel like
there's also just like a a mass group of
people and the more that people sort of

(50:27):
add on to that group of people
the easier it is to kind of control and
instill fear and instill all these
things that get us further and further
away from that awareness from that unity
from that abundance and from all that we
are at the
you know at the heart of the soul of
what it means to be a human being
so
you know

(50:48):
yeah
once again i don't know those are just
things that i feel like i'm just kind of
observing as as i see everything because
you know just walking in new york city
sometimes i just
don't necessarily
align with some of the energy and some
of the
the disconnect that i feel that other
people have in themselves and sometimes
i check myself like am i projecting that

(51:09):
onto on on to them but then i'm like
maybe i'm not like i think that that
actually kind of is
is going on
um yeah
absolutely but
historically
this is uh this is ramping up i i guess
that that would be the benefit of being
in my 40s now is that i've watched the
change for 20 years and i'm a big

(51:29):
history buff i love history i
rise in uh the rise and descent of the
roman empire onwards i've just read too
much stuff in my life but
this is getting to a crescendo like
the the absurdity is getting to the
point now where we can't sustain it and
we see that all the time in the
environment the economy and politics and
religion i mean

(51:50):
we've played this narrative out too it's
inevitable and it's going to come
crashing down like the house of cards
that it is just like the ego the ego
can't make anything that's that's
stronger than the ego right it's a shaky
foundation to start with and so an
ego-based society is the same i think
that we have to go through this because
i mean a hundred years ago we were still
in the same mentality but the
consequences weren't as obvious because

(52:14):
we weren't as overpopulated we didn't
have
the the world government that we do now
you could just escape you could go
somewhere off into the woods but you
can't anymore you know the more i was
talking to somebody last week who says i
can't actually go into the woods in my
country they don't let us it's like
exactly so there's nowhere to run now
now we have to deal with our ship we
have to deal with our collective

(52:36):
distractions and our collective need to
pass responsibility and if we don't
then the consequence is going to come
it's like i once described it as
snowball keeps falling down the hill and
we just keep throwing it back up the
hill they're going to keep coming down
right like we can't hold off the
consequence of our control
with more control forever we can't

(52:57):
eventually those snowballs are all going
to come down at once and and i think
that's what we're witnessing i think
that's where people like you and andrew
for example are finding this is absurd
of course i'm not going to live like
this this seems stupid
but it has to be that obvious it has to
be i mean how many for how many hundreds
of years have we went along with this
common narrative not questioning it or

(53:18):
not able to question it because we would
get burned at the stake
yeah
the i just i just found myself
questioning a lot of things too and you
know although there are lots of
individuals it's sadly not necessarily
the individuals that are making the
decisions
it's
you know
other things that are i guess going on

(53:39):
behind the scene and
you know people having having trust and
and just things working himself out and
i feel like when you have trust to a
certain degree and when it's external
when it's outside of yourself
things can
end up happening and you can play a
certain game but the game you're playing
isn't actually what's determining where
the world is going

(54:00):
yeah yeah and that comes back to
any sort of belief system in this
idea with a lot of things that you know
the ends just not justify the means but
what are
those ends and i feel like those ends
are stemming from
the idea of separation and the these
ideas that you know we can

(54:20):
pass the buck because there are all
these things outside of ourselves that
we are cling to like you know the idea
of the afterlife you know we don't have
to worry about what's going on in the
world because you know in 80 years we'll
be chilling with jesus and god and all
the other saints in heaven it's like oh
like hold on

(54:41):
like this is it we're here like this is
it here and now right now and until
you know some of those barriers start
getting
broken and those you know
sturdy chairs that everyone's standing
on start getting kicked out from under
them i think people
will continue
to sort of hold on to them and believe

(55:02):
that there is you know we don't have to
deal with
anything here fully at least outside of
ourselves and how we're able to
you know comfort ourselves and our own
lives realizing that it's it's just it's
just me
the whole time and and forever and then

(55:22):
things will start
being dealt with i think a little bit
more
yeah but it but it has to be
here now in the moment right like
we always want to change the world we
want to fix the problems in the world
but the problems in the world are the
result of how we think we are the world
there's no separation right and so if we
really want the world to change then it

(55:43):
starts with you starts with me right and
and it can't be on anyone else it just
can't like it's funny my daughter and i
we talk about this it's like you can
focus on somebody else changing for you
or you can change your response to them
which one do you think is going to be
easier
changing yours and and that's that's
very much it and i've noticed that

(56:04):
throughout my life the ripples that that
come off of me as i change as i stop
needing to justify or validate or i need
anything from any anyone
the people in my life change how they
interpret what i'm saying changes and
then they change as people and then they
go out and create their own ripples and
all that and i don't know what that's
going to do but i know

(56:25):
the origin of that ripple i know it's
where it's coming from and i know that
my my mentality is often what creates
the outcome so if i can get out of the
way
entirely then i'm no longer creating an
egotistical ripple i'm not creating one
that's based on division if anything i'm
building one that's based on the
recognition of unity and the recognition

(56:46):
that we're one
and that
that ripple changes things but we can't
see how it plays out like it's too big
it's too big to imagine how it goes from
one person to others to others to others
and all the way back to you because
that's how it works
right there isn't a ripple you've been
in your life that hasn't come back to
you
and it will always come back to you
because it's a finite world

(57:08):
right we affect everything and it
affects us yeah and the individual
affects the collective i think we
definitely do need more of these
individual voices speaking out uh i mean
i do definitely see that you know
most people are other people and i'm
sure you've probably heard that before
that you know and that's part of the
conformity that's part of the the

(57:28):
comfort that's part of the the safety
and the latching onto a belief and you
have a group ideology
and
all these things and you know the only
thing that you know i sometimes worry
about is how
individual thought and free will can
somewhat
is somewhat being threatened and you
know as things get more and more strict

(57:49):
in terms of verbiage in terms of labels
in terms of
you know our society and and and our
culture it's really infringing on what
it means to to be a human being and you
know there isn't enough recognition for
that enough awareness because people
think it's for their safety it's for
their protections for the greater good
and as long as you have the mass group

(58:11):
of people believing in that it can be
hard to
to to trump that it can be hard to to to
fight that and so i do think you need
more and more individuals and more and
more people who are you know sort of
unsure and on the fence you know
that
to show them that within themselves that
they can find that own
their own individuality that they can

(58:32):
find their their own voice that you know
hiding in the group isn't doing anyone
any good
yeah i think i think realizing that it's
okay to not know also like all these
people out here talking about things
being you know on the fence being
uncertain being and and being okay with
it like that's something that is just so
drilled into us you know me and eric

(58:54):
more recently going through school and
whatnot that you know you can't say you
don't know like there's there's a
question there's a thing in class you
say you don't know like that's that's
not an option it's just not an option
but but realizing that you know it's
okay to say i don't know you don't have
to settle on an answer you don't have to
believe

(59:15):
in something you can say i don't know
and keep living in uncertainty because
that's what there is whether you want to
realize that or not
yeah i i think that should definitely be
a choice i mean sadly i think our world
tries to make a lot of things binary
like it's this or that you're on this

(59:35):
side or you're on that side there's it's
black or white there's no real gray area
i mean i did drop out of college maybe
that's why i didn't really i couldn't
really fit within the within the
institution within all the rules i had
to explore life on my own i mean i was
in college for one semester before i
felt like i started that i started to
have to ask questions like who am i why
am i here i mean even just going to

(59:56):
college it wasn't you know are you going
to college it's just what college are
you going to you just assume that you
know you go on this life path and you do
this you do that and
you know before you know it you're
you're just this
you've just adopted all of these ideas
and and informed who you are without
even knowing who you are you know you're
it's like you're blindfolded and you're

(01:00:17):
holding on to this
holding on to someone's hand i guess
that hand is represents society or
culture whatever it is and you're just
trusting that it's going to lead you to
the next thing the next thing and it's
it's all egos saying that oh you know
you you get a good degree you get a good
job you know you can have a family you
know go on two vacations a year this or
that and then it's it's like but at the
end of the day like what are you who are

(01:00:38):
you why are you doing it
what does it mean you know
because i've been told too yeah no
that's um that's something i really
noticed with my life coaching clients
over the years was i would get life
coaching clients who had done everything
right in their life they went to school
or they joined the military they became
doctors they they ended up you know
becoming administrators of government
agencies things like that

(01:00:59):
wealthy could travel you know they got
married had kids did the whole thing
hated every minute of their life despite
the fact that they had done everything
right and you can feel more lost too
yeah you know yeah because they
it's almost even worse because you've
invested so much into this lack of
feeling into this lack of fulfillment so
that's why you have that mid-life crisis

(01:01:21):
right you're like oh i got to go the
other way as hard as i possibly can
because that's gotta work it's like no
no it's no particular path it's like the
expression that truth is a pathos land
right it's it's not about which path
you're taking it's about you
on the path like you are your path
um my father-in-law is an as a financial

(01:01:43):
advisor and a lot of
his clients
they go into retirement and after
retirement they don't know what to do
with themselves they have no purpose for
living and it's because
their entire purpose was the acquisition
of money their entire purpose was the
self-definition and then all of a sudden
they don't have that anymore it's like
what am i here for it's like well why
were you squandering the entire time

(01:02:03):
like why were you making it about
achievement rather than where you were
and it's like oh right because we were
told that's the way to do it that we
were told we were led around blindfolded
by other people wearing blindfolds
and we believed them when when you
really think about it too the idea of
working your whole life doing something
you don't enjoy

(01:02:24):
to make money and
and not even for any real purpose just
the accumulation of it it's like to do
something for that big of a chunk to get
money
to do
what with things you
actually enjoy is it actually things you
enjoy like why not just do
the things you enjoy and then

(01:02:46):
figure out what like if you do that
enough there will be ways to make money
from it to a degree and then
you won't need
all that extra piles of money to do the
things you like you're doing it
already it's like it's such an
interesting thing that's been so
ingrained and it's not to say that you
know i work a nine-to-five it's not like

(01:03:07):
to say that i am anti that by any means
but the idea that it's so firmly
ingrained in our society as being
you know the truth the way like that's
what you do you go to high school you go
to college you get a nine to five so
you're 65 you retire you chill for a
little on a beach and then you die and

(01:03:28):
it's like why is that it's all [ __ ]
made up like why is that the thing
and it's all made up and realizing that
is just
so
in it just
kind of blows my mind every time i think
about that that's
that's just what we've
sort of settled on and it's completely
made up

(01:03:48):
i mean it's like the it's the
construction of things though like
institutions that are set up to allow it
to happen and i mean i mean it starts at
such an early age i mean we're kids and
we're
so extremely susceptible and so we're
being told all these things and we're
we're taking on all these programs we're
believing all of these these things
we're drawing our self-esteem by a
letter or a number

(01:04:10):
on a test and then we're looking at the
people beside us comparing and and
competing and then you know we have this
fear of criticism and we have our
parents that probably went through the
same exact thing
and so it's like
if you don't have some sort of
inkling or you know intuitive sense
which you know i feel like i had because

(01:04:30):
i tried to kind of get away from it as
soon as possible and i wasn't believing
it like why should i feel like [ __ ]
because i didn't do well on this test
why should i invest all of my energy
into this it just didn't make sense to
me and for a while i couldn't articulate
i couldn't express why
it it didn't make sense but you know
it's like you spend enough time with
yourself you develop your intuition and

(01:04:51):
expand your awareness which is something
that they don't teach at all and you you
wonder why it's like
it it's like where is the best interest
for our individualism for our own unique
voice to to come out and it's like if
anything that's what we can offer the
world um
so definitely lots of questions to ask
about
why things are set up the way they are

(01:05:12):
and is it just to
create employees so that our world can
keep running the way that it is i mean
but but what about us you know like what
about you know what about us as human
beings yeah so
yeah yeah well then again this is this
is an old system right this system is
based on a very old mentality that
that had complete control over a long

(01:05:33):
time that control is slipping it's had
to of necessity which is why we have
less dictatorships and monarchies now
and more more democracies i mean they've
had to at least change how they deal
with us they have to give us the
impression that we're free that we have
choice
right whereas before they were just like
what's that you have a say no into the
dungeon you go thank you
and that was pretty much it so we we

(01:05:54):
have evolved that way in that i mean the
magna carta was it was a perfect example
basically a bunch of rich business
people went yeah that's enough of this
[ __ ] and they they over they overran the
the uh the king and they said we're
gonna make an agreement now or you're
gonna die and so they made an agreement
that the people had certain rights and
this is eventually what led to the bill
of rights and whatnot like 500 years

(01:06:15):
later but
there have been enough uh events in our
history of people
questioning things enough to stand up
and gather in groups that are large
enough to actually have some sway it's
just how often it happens and i think
personally
this is just my perspective being a
history guy and all that um i think that
we're still kind of suffering through

(01:06:36):
a severe culling that happened to our
species in world war one and world war
ii i i when we say we sent our best and
brightest i think that's absolutely true
and i think that they all died i think
that we got left with the people who
weren't questioning and a government
that was oh so happy to take advantage
of that
but and we've been limping on ever since
then and then you saw the resurgence of
the hippie movement people started

(01:06:57):
questioning again and then you know the
system clamp down on that as hard as it
could and it just keeps popping back up
and this is why i'm so inspired by you
and andrew for example
because it's popping up again but you're
not doing it as a result of following a
fad
you're not doing it because of some
movement you're doing it as a result of
your own digging your own journey so

(01:07:19):
that's what makes me wonder like
is that's what is that what's happening
based on the environment is the
environment causing us to change and
wake up of necessity i think it is
not everybody but enough
yeah i would say yeah
i was going to say that
you got it you got it

(01:07:39):
i know i was gonna say i i think it's
partly environment and then partly just
the nature of some people to will their
way to carve out their own voice um
i mean i still think environment is
suppressing to a degree and you know for
a lot of people it's like they feel like
they're playing a chess game like you're
only permitted
moves within the rules of the game um
and

(01:08:00):
so yeah
yeah and i think all that we
can do is
continue having conversations like this
and and expressing it however we can for
me it's been
very much a process of going through
sort of my own mental health related
struggles especially in high school and
into college and then i had always sort

(01:08:22):
of
been questioning things to a degree but
but really
recently and it led me
more to the to the realizations of you
know asking the question who who am i
and and the questions of religion and
all these things that were seemingly so
sure i was so sure of in my life because
everyone around me was so sure of them

(01:08:43):
but you you know you start peeling back
the layers and it's like well no one's
actually sure
of anything they're all just pretending
too and and the more i started to
realize like holy [ __ ] everyone is just
pretending they're just you know doing
the best they can but clinging to all of
these things it's like oh my god no one

(01:09:04):
actually knows what they're doing which
wasn't frightening for me it was it was
more freeing i think because it helped
me to feel
okay with feeling like that and then you
know being out here sharing that i don't
no i don't you know i don't feel great
all the time i don't know answers to
things but i'm not going to pretend to

(01:09:25):
know either
you just haven't found jesus yet
[Laughter]
sorry
the best conversation with somebody
yesterday i i posted something about uh
theism
and
it was just great so
he's like no god's not everything god

(01:09:48):
created the universe and then left you
are limiting god it's like what
i'm limiting god you're saying god just
took off and isn't everything that's
your limiting god i'm saying god is
everything like it was the most
ridiculous conversation because
it wasn't based on anything real it was
just based on regurgitation and

(01:10:08):
repetition and when i asked him i'm like
okay so with all this belief
you have you've never experienced god
like you're still holding this division
he's like you're right i've never
experienced god
it's like but yet you're still defending
the view that has kept you from
experiencing god like you're actually
defending it whereas i'm saying you can

(01:10:28):
just by getting out of your own way and
you're like no i can't
okay that's up to you
yeah it says who
right
yeah
well it's like it's the same belief like
yes it's a contradiction you're able to
see it but like that belief is is like
it's what's protecting them so like any
of their reasoning is just to keep in
place and whatever arguments they use is

(01:10:50):
just to keep that sort of
solid foundation because if not
it's like they're gonna crumble like
they have to like resurrect themselves
and most people don't have the the
fortitude to to go through that like
that's just too much to bear and
you know they they don't see that
uncertainty and that that space of
infinite possibilities as something that

(01:11:12):
is freeing us something which is like i
think like the best place to be in
which is hilarious because religion
always pounds on faith and humility
which is uncertainty
and a lack of ego right that's what
faith and humility is it's uncertainty
and not thinking about yourself that's
all it is it's just moving forward
without anything to hold on to but

(01:11:34):
they're like no no i have faith in god
well that sounds like an idea what is
that exactly what does that mean does
that mean that things are going to work
out the way you want them to right
because if so that's not faith that's
just you telling yourself another story
and
i will admit that
while i i look at the world and i see
ripples that we create and there's a
part of me it's like yeah this this can

(01:11:55):
work out doesn't mean we're all gonna
die um
there's also a part of me that's very
much aware that the whole planet could
explode and awareness will carry on so i
don't
really worry about it overly much
because i know there are infinite
incarnations where we're having the same
conversation under slightly different
conditions
yeah and it's just nice to remind

(01:12:15):
yourself that you know you can be a fool
in the end for just having these
conversations that you don't know you're
having an experience you're aware of
something but you don't quite know what
that is
there's this body thing that we carry
around and we're able to express
ourselves through these senses and
i don't know like i feel like sometimes
you can just laugh at yourself laugh

(01:12:35):
with the experience and and just
let things be and you know take on
responsibility whenever you can and you
know once again like if you can make it
a pleasant experience make it a pleasant
experience and
but at the same time don't label things
too much because you know that can get
you in a a whole a whole intertwined
complex situation absolutely well it's

(01:12:56):
like alan watts said you know our
problem is that we take seriously what
the gods made for fun love that quote
yeah
yeah
yeah and and there's no meaning of life
that it's just to be alive like that's
another down to watch thing that like
we're all looking we're all searching
we're all
using our minds capabilities in every
way that we can to to find some sort of
answer and we're always looking and it's

(01:13:18):
like the meaning of life is the absence
of needing one you know
and just leave it at that
yeah
the only thing stopping you from finding
it is the idea that there's something to
find
all you have to do is stop seeking and
realize that it's
here now oh my god so there's this uh
this great story about uh woodcutter and

(01:13:39):
so the woodcutter is in the woods and he
lives in on his own and he's got his
cabin and you know he just cuts down
trees all day that's his job and one day
he's cutting down a tree and he sees
this mythical beast called a satori and
of course the tory means enlightenment
but so the satori kind of dodges around
behind trees and kind of you know
like i'm over here and he goes chasing
after it because the legend is if you

(01:14:01):
eat the satori
you'll find peace and fulfillment so
he's chasing it all over the all over
the forest trying to catch it trying to
hit it with his axe nothing nothing he's
getting super frustrated finally he's
like you know what forget it i'm just
gonna go back and do what i'm doing so
he goes over to a tree goes to take a
swing the axe head flies off hits the
cistorian strikes it dead
and he takes it home and eats well

(01:14:23):
and it was because he stopped chasing
the damn thing
yeah that's that that was one of the
most freeing things i've realized
recently is there's no
right way like the idea of enlightenment
i still
i think even
up to the last few months was still
still thought there wasn't a way to be
it and you know the people like eckhart

(01:14:44):
tolle have sort of figured it out and
all these people who you know the gurus
and whatnot that are very they're
spiritual and they're they're very
ceremonial and i think people create
this idea of enlightenment and
i got tied to that and and this idea
that oh there are things i should be
doing and shouldn't be doing i have this

(01:15:05):
platform now where i talk about these
things means that i you know shouldn't
be doing certain things like
[ __ ] around with my friends and
getting hammered on a saturday night
like oh i shouldn't do that anymore it's
like
what are you holding on to like your
whole clinging to an idea of what is
right and what is wrong like the right
way to be and and not to be and

(01:15:26):
realizing that there wasn't and it's
just here and now and whatever that
means for you is
all there is like there isn't anything
outside of that is has been
like the biggest
weight that i didn't even know i had
lifted
off my shoulders and it's just
yeah it's

(01:15:47):
awesome i think to to really
be able to understand that
yeah
freedom right that makes sense i mean
it's it's something that humanity's
always fought for it's something that
we've always cherished but we've almost
lost sight of what it means not just the
freedom to walk around where you want or

(01:16:07):
the freedom to buy what you want it's
the freedom to be
who you want it's the freedom to
perceive the world as you want right
it's the freedom to be yourself
and
that is not something that we value to
the same degree that we used to i always
find it interesting that the founding
fathers in a lot of their quotes of the
united states really focused on the idea
of liberty
for that reason and liberty is the state

(01:16:30):
of freedom
right the state of personal freedom and
that was their entire idea it's like you
know no religion tying us down everybody
can believe whatever the hell they want
as long as all of us are individually
free
we will have a country like no other
and then that just became more
collective thought and that became
another structure and a system and a
two-party you know
drama

(01:16:50):
and it has been ever since but the idea
was sound
yeah yeah i mean
being free just allowing you to be how
however you want to be and like giving
you that
choice it is that's i think what
ultimately we should all have if we
choose to take on a belief if we choose
to live within labels then then that's
your choice and

(01:17:10):
you can you can do that and um
just to go back to the enlightenment for
a second and i'm not going to go too
deep on this but i had a
one of my last um psychedelic trips when
i took mushrooms and andrea i know
you've recently
experimented with them um
and i wrote down i did like a trip
report and like the way that i

(01:17:31):
approached it like i i've looked a lot
into um terence mckenna i think that's
his name you know he's obviously one of
the you know
pioneers of of psychedelics and all that
um you know having set and setting be
really really important but in terms of
enlightenment at one point of this the
trip and it was really deep like i was
like
with this sailor and i was like in the

(01:17:53):
the back of like this boat or canoe type
thing and pretty much what the message
was that enlightenment is just letting
the light in
if that makes any sense and for me
that's just being
being open to all of the possibilities
being in that uncertainty
and yeah just really like opening
yourself up and

(01:18:14):
you know yeah it's i think it's really
that simple and like we complicate a lot
of these things we think that this
so-called idea of enlightenment is only
held for
specific people or godly like people or
like it's like this mythical thing and
it's like unattainable but at the same
time we should be striving for it or to
have some of the virtues that that that

(01:18:35):
represents
and like it's just it's just simply to
to to be aware to let the light in to
experience what's happening
in this moment to
not be to attach this idea that you have
for yourself and and just to see through
all of the
things that are
to to see through all the blockages that

(01:18:56):
that are really just limiting you yeah
absolutely
to be aware i guess is very much like
being an exposed nerve
it's total vulnerability but that's
where all our potential and our strength
lies right and the more vulnerable we
are the more sensitive we are the more
we can take in the more we process and
the more our alignment deepens and i

(01:19:18):
think that
that is super telling is as to why we
are so confused as a species because we
don't like vulnerability we want to know
everything's tightly controlled i mean
how there are like 50 signs on my street
telling people how to drive and what
speed to go and where not to turn like
we don't like
not having control and so the idea that

(01:19:38):
we have to let go
of needing control or the idea that
we've ever had control in order to see
more that's something that's going to
take a while to to take hold in a big
way but as i said and i'm going to
continue to say it's definitely
happening i am definitely seeing a
bigger undercurrent of that conversation
though it's still
um it's like andrew was saying earlier

(01:20:00):
it's uh it's still almost camouflaged in
that like it stopped being christianity
and it's turned into spirituality and
then it's going to go from being
spirituality to being more of a
philosophical and then it's going to go
from that to being straight-up
application but i i think it's it's
these conversations reminding us that
these are steps on the way and
spirituality is not awareness
spirituality is a step on the way to

(01:20:21):
awareness right
and so yeah just the fact that we're
questioning things without wanting to
settle on an answer if that can become
the common dialogue
everything changes everything changes
and i don't know how fast that will
happen
right
yeah yeah that idea of vulnerability too
i think it's just
i find it so interesting like for a
while one of the biggest things i

(01:20:42):
struggled with was just like fear of
judgment and from others and
and i think realizing that other people
were struggling with the same things
that i was was
extremely another extremely freeing
thing for me because for so long and i
think one of the biggest things people
struggle with is feeling like they're
alone and feeling like they're the only

(01:21:02):
one going through something and
it's just so interesting how
little vulnerability there is out there
and everyone's trying to put up this
face like everything's perfect and
everything's great and i'm you know have
this amazing life and
they're all
or at least most of the time just a
sweaty guy behind the curtain and

(01:21:23):
it's just so interesting because i think
then it sells people were just less
fake
like that and trying to put on this face
a lot of
the mental health related
issues we've seen
would subside because people would
realize they aren't alone
in their struggles and so

(01:21:44):
yeah i just find vulnerability to be
one of the most important
aspects of this and not being ashamed
of having something different about
yourself or like even even like a
weird like i don't want to get too weird
on this conversation but like a kinky
desire
and

(01:22:04):
it's like so interesting that everyone
just tries to hide all of that and i i
don't know if you eric you follow blake
uh the cosmic jester
on tick tock
or uh
i think so okay he's he's a very
interesting i'll take him out
he has i see on his instagram story
sometimes like he

(01:22:26):
is extremely
vulnerable and open and authentic about
things
and
it's
sometimes like even you know sexual
related things and it's just very
like it's cool for me to see because i
know every like 95 percent of guys i
know are doing the same [ __ ] but nobody

(01:22:48):
talks about it so interesting that
nobody right wants to talk about it
because everyone you know feels like
they'll get judged but everyone's doing
it also it's just yeah it's very
interesting nobody's transparent about
it really but it's like i mean like if
you fully accept who you are in every
way
then i guess it doesn't really matter
what other people think and you know

(01:23:10):
when you know that most people are just
trying to to be strong and have this
fully put together puzzle of who they
are and they have to keep this image
intact well then it's like they're just
being dishonest with themselves and you
know they have to go home at the end of
the day and look at themselves in the
mirror and see that reflection and know
that that they're doing it so it's like
in some ways it's easier but in some

(01:23:31):
ways it's a lot more
challenging
but
it's also about i guess what most people
are doing like some people want to have
that courage to like be able to just be
so transparent and so authentic and just
like share all these things about
themselves because i mean for one maybe
they don't take it too seriously
you know two they they realize that like

(01:23:52):
for for other people it can be like
inspiring even like to to to see someone
doing that and see them just fully
putting themselves out there and and
being vulnerable because that that
that's actually like true strength to be
able to to do that and and not care and
i mean it's definitely something
something that i've
struggled with because it's like you

(01:24:12):
know being an introvert and being
someone that's like reserved like you
want to keep most things for yourself
like you don't want to be quote-unquote
exposing things to everyone about
yourself or your intimate life but it's
like we're a lot more like we have a lot
more in common and we do a lot of things
like behind closed doors that are very
alike and like we all think that like
we're the only one when in reality we're

(01:24:33):
definitely not
so
yeah
exactly yeah no we have far more
similarities than differences for sure
well as we have reached an hour and 25
minutes
go
go figure as always we always end up at
an hour and a half um we're gonna wrap
up here eric it's been just a pleasure
talking to you i'm hoping we can have

(01:24:53):
you on again um your tick tock name is
infinite seeking infinite seeking yeah
and where else can people find you
uh well infinite is speaking on on
instagram too and i also have my i guess
personal instagram which is eric
underscore abroad some people don't know
my name because they just see infinite
seeking but my name is eric
and uh yeah i guess you can follow you

(01:25:14):
can follow me there too i make some
content there thank you guys so much for
having me on i'm really grateful i
appreciate it i really appreciate it and
being able to talk to two people like
you guys is is really incredible you
know eye opening and you guys are very
very wise so thank you for inviting me
on
i said it was crazy
yeah

(01:25:35):
now this is this is awesome to
connect with you and and
and you know i know you're in new york
so i'm in new york also so yeah we'll
have to grab coffee sometime or
something yeah yeah
i'm i go on like three or four three or
four walks a day
i see your stories and you're answering
all the questions so yeah
we should definitely

(01:25:55):
meet up for sure that's awesome yeah you
definitely should and then you should
record the conversation because that
that'll be valuable for other people um
thank you everyone for listening and of
course we'll be back next week with
episode six um do look up eric and enjoy
his content because it's insightful and
it's authentic and i feel inspired by it
every time i watch it so i definitely
recommend it

(01:26:32):
you

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S.1 Ep.5: Strength and Vulnerability w/ Eric Abrons

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