S.1 Ep.6: Beyond Belief

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
hello and welcome to episode six of
dualistic unity i'm playing the part of
andrew today
and i'm right
i'm just gonna leave it at that this
time because i always tend to make it
more complicated but let's just stick
with i'm called ray
all right so we were just having a great
discussion about
how
habits or or even habitual stories can

(00:21):
can be told so many times that they
almost take the appearance of making
sense and then they provide the comfort
of something that makes sense but when
you look at them
outside of your conditioned programming
or you look at them outside of what
you're familiar with and everybody else
tells you is true
they don't really hold it up under
skepticism at all and this is something
that i've been facing a lot this week on

(00:43):
tick tock because i made
a few posts about religion and belief
and and um
the responses are always quite
interesting because the response is
always
no
and that's usually where it stops just
no
and if it doesn't stop it no it's well
you'll see when you die

(01:03):
and those are the two responses that i'm
i'm used to when it comes to arguing
belief because
there's no way you can go with that
there's no
it's like well
okay so you're threatening me to try and
prove your belief but that doesn't that
doesn't do anything about with the
relationship you have with the here and
now whatsoever it's like yeah but you'll

(01:23):
see when you die and and no matter how
much you make the point
well you're just holding on to that idea
because it validates your belief
they'll just run they will run and and
it's always interesting
that they'll do so saying oh no no
you're afraid to believe in god
it's like that makes no sense that makes

(01:44):
zero sense whatsoever if i was if i
believed in god i'd have something to be
afraid of especially if i believed he
was judgmental but not believing in god
means i have nothing to be afraid of
there's there's no fear whatsoever
because there's no
there's nobody casting judgment which i
always find really funny because sin
the etymology of sin

(02:04):
is just to miss the mark
it's to miss the point that's all it
means it doesn't mean you're going to
hell it never did
it just means you've missed the point
which is oddly enough exactly how
serious it is
yeah yeah i mean i've found some just
some very
interesting responses when i post

(02:26):
religious related things and i had that
post last week that was like
honestly it was kind of like the
response you're used to it now i'm not
as used to that like the the the wrath
of the followers or the believers it's
like oh man i don't know if i was
expecting this necessarily like this is
some of
the most

(02:47):
like the most
angry people i've ever come across on
tick tock and i've posted i haven't
stayed away from
all like controversial topics like i'll
post things where people
you know don't like it and they have
negative comments but this is like
another level and a lot of the arguments
i found
things like well you'll see when you die

(03:08):
or no no god's outside of space and time
like that's that's how it's like
how do my response were like how do you
know this like how are you coming up
with these
fictitious sentiments about something
that you're so sure of like how are you
so sure of this like i'm not saying that
i'm sure of anything
but i'm not you know pretending that i

(03:30):
have
an answer and it was just so interesting
what that said is that
i
i want to believe it that's at the end
of the day that's all it is and i
remember i mean i was i was raised roman
catholic i i had my bible and my rosary
and i went to confession and i and i did
all of that and there was a security

(03:52):
in knowing that if i just followed the
rules as i've been told
if i die in my sleep if i die before
awake right the lord will take my soul
and i'm all good to go and so there's
there's this vested interest in
believing i ran across a
live stream the other day about it was
this teenage girl i think she was
probably 16 17 and

(04:12):
christian i run across a lot of
christian live streams on tick tock and
i and i almost never pass up the
opportunity to drop in and just remind
them jesus never claimed he was the only
son of god um
but she was she was crying and she's
like
somebody had said one day you'll grow
out of christianity and she's like i
don't want to grow out of christianity
jesus makes me feel safe and he feels

(04:34):
and makes me feel loved and it's like
that's it you got it you got exactly why
you don't want to let it go and you
nailed it and it's like one day you're
going to realize
that is that's how children feel
so children who are afraid project
a parent figure they project a father
figure that will take care of them and

(04:55):
make them feel better which is why i
always say that belief is a bedtime
story for scary for scared children
that's all it is right and then if you
go and you tell those children well
actually the story's not true they don't
want to hear it they just all they feel
is the fear they don't have the
wherewithal the clarity to go
oh okay so i was just looking at this in
a way that was you know not necessarily

(05:17):
helping me as much as it could because
religion isn't evil
by any means it's a story it's like any
other story there's lessons in it it's
just when we attach to it and go no it's
unquestionable it's it's the word of god
and i actually had a christian tell me
once because he's like the bible is the
word of god i'm like the bible's open to
interpretation and his response and it

(05:38):
stuck with me even to this day is no the
bible interprets itself
where do you go for that
how do you even have that conversation
yeah that's what i was finding was a lot
of them
were
dead ends and it's like they didn't yeah

(05:59):
they don't they don't want to have
discussions and they don't think that
it's important because it's
part of their identity and who they
perceive themselves to be but
yeah because a lot of my responses were
like you know they're like well you
can't prove or disprove it and i'd be
like yeah you also can't prove or

(06:20):
disprove any fairy tale
or you know the
santa claus or any of those like so
that's not like the greatest
argument and then i had some people
respond like well no because there's
ancient
you know testimony to religion and
there's like hundreds of thousands
millions of people across the globe who

(06:40):
practice it that's why it's not the same
as a fairy tale like that doesn't mean
anything that just means there's a lot
of people believing in a fairy tale
like santa claus
yeah
yeah
that was my
yeah it's like you can't prove or you
can't technically disprove santa i guess
and like the whole idea of disproving

(07:02):
something like like the idea of their
being
atheist it's like we didn't we wouldn't
have to use a term like atheist if there
wasn't people who
made up this idea of a heavenly father
you know creator of the universe like it
would just be we are here now that's it
exactly that's exactly it right but

(07:25):
you got to remember that the people who
were playing this game of make-believe
were playing it for thousands of years
and and they
very much
they were leaned upon by the people who
were afraid the world was a scary place
and so
without clarity or without anybody to
kind of lead us along and go you know
there are other things that you can look
at there there are questions you can ask

(07:47):
yourself there's existence that you can
come to terms with
they were told just go to the church
just just follow jesus just follow you
know and then there were
regular periods where anybody who didn't
was killed
right like that that was it if you
didn't follow the church you were going
to get wiped out and so the world became
a very scary place and we fell into this
habit i mean it wasn't that long ago the

(08:07):
church was paying families to have
children just because half of those
children would be put into the seminary
or be put into into a nunnery right like
that that's how messed up it was is that
we had people who were playing this game
of make-believe paying people to
continue to play make-believe
that's how weird it is but it's it's not
uncommon for
religious people to use

(08:28):
um a spectacular amount of cognitive
dissonance and what i mean is that
in the inquisition
so the spanish inquisition was probably
one of the most terrifying parts of our
history because it was very much if you
were suspected of worshiping the devil
by an inquisitor it's because god
inspired that inquisitor
to doubt you

(08:50):
so the doubt
was the conviction
there was no trial
if they thought you were a satan
worshiper it's because god told them you
were and you were gonna burn
all you could do was say yes and and die
quickly that was the only option you had
but the justification was if i had the
thought
it had to come from god

(09:10):
and the same is true for believers in
the bible well
i wouldn't i wouldn't have this belief
in god if god wasn't making me believe
if god wasn't inspiring it's like nope
that's not how this works that's that's
the same reasoning
but that's not how this this works
that's like saying you know if i if i
have the urge to rob a store it's the
universe inspiring me to do so it's like

(09:31):
no it's just a thought that's all it is
stop passing off
responsibility yeah i feel like that
kind of turns into this vicious cycle
that
is hard to
end unless people are able to
themselves like how can an outsider end
that way of thinking it's like a it's
it's an unbreakable
cycle almost that's just completely like

(09:54):
made up
absolutely well i mean that that's the
room that's religion as a whole i mean
look at uh lutheranism right
the only difference
the only major difference between
catholicism and lutheranism
is that lutheranism doesn't believe the
pope is infallible
that was it so luther
just disagreed with the church he's like

(10:16):
the pope's a man he's not he's not
perfect he's not the connection to god
he can't be he's just a man
and that was the division in the church
that split between catholicism and
lutheranism that was it just one
argument about the narrative about the
story no that guy's not perfect and it
literally split into a war in the church
it's split into two different factions
of christianity as a result because

(10:38):
we're disagreeing about the story
yeah and that's like how
how do so many people
like believe
that because yeah technically
catholicism and that's where it started
for me was it was just piece by piece
there were things that i didn't believe
about catholicism i'm like that doesn't
make any sense and that doesn't make any

(10:58):
sense so like yeah sure i'll still say
i'm catholic but like i'm starting to
believe less and less and all of a
sudden i believe like you know it's less
than 50 it's like how can you call
yourself something if it's less than 50
then it just like kept things just kept
falling off from there until i was like
what am i doing still
calling myself this and

(11:20):
then it's you know progressed quickly
from there within the last couple years
but
yeah it kind of started with that and
it's like because there's so many people
i know who are you know nominally
catholic but they don't believe
in most of what it teaches like are
there still people i mean there are
definitely that who believe a hundred
percent and like why why do they feel

(11:41):
like they need to
hold on to that is it or is it just that
you know security and safety
very much and familiarity right it's
familiarity and the alternative is
terrifying because
if i envision
a being outside of myself
playing life like a chess game you know
i mean a super intelligent being that

(12:03):
that has a vested interest in me
so long as i'm really devoted to it
that gives me a certain feeling of
control that means i just have to jump
through the right hoops i just need to
do the right things and and you know god
is on my side this is the justification
behind numerous holy wars
you know god is on our side it's like
well who says you know both sides have a

(12:23):
god both sides are god um but it just
comes down to what we want to believe
because of the way it makes us feel and
i wish it was more complicated than that
i really do but it's not it's just
habitual over generations so you have
children that are raised in and again
i've said it before this is why the
church is very very adamant that we need

(12:44):
to get young people into the church
early it's because that's when they're
not in a state of mind where they're
going to question it that's in a state
of mind where they are in a state of
mind where they're just going to fit
into the environment because there are
perks to doing so and that's true i've
actually met a lot of christians who
don't necessarily believe like you're
saying but continue to go to church
because of the community because of the
social aspect of the church and the

(13:06):
access to people that they get through
the church
as well as the assumptions that people
make about them in the church because
they go to church so there's all kinds
of control that goes in to being a
god-fearing christian
but it's becoming less and less of a
benefit now because more and more people
are leaving christianity more and more

(13:26):
people are leaving religion as a whole
and so suddenly if you come across
somebody and they're like oh i'm a god
god-fearing christian
50 years ago more than likely your
response would have been yeah well
that's perfect let's give you a job now
your response is oh oh maybe we should
talk about that like how much are you
afraid exactly and so it's a very
different response and that's
encouraging to me

(13:47):
yeah it's almost like you hear that and
you're like oh you must not be the most
critical thinker
out there like that actually might not
be super helpful for this role because
we need critical thinkers and people who
question things and think outside the
box which you clearly have done very
little if you're still
in that box
exactly exactly and that's very much how

(14:09):
the conversation around
religion has changed and that's not to
say all religions are the same but there
are certain
there are certain things about
monotheism especially that are very
similar and it's the in that belief of
in an external or um a separate creator
it's that belief that somebody is
watching us in kind of a pastoral sense

(14:30):
which is why priests and pastors that
i've known in my life often enjoy that
relationship with their parishioners or
with the people that go to their church
in kind of like their fatherly you know
they're they're helping you they're
coming down from on high with the
worldly wisdom as it were is i never
i've never jived with that i've always
enjoyed the relationship of we're equals

(14:50):
i'm just as much in the trenches as you
are right i don't i'm not armed with
some you know holy knowledge that
everybody else doesn't have i'm just
here now and i've learned how to how to
come to terms with that so we're going
to talk in terms of that because i never
enjoyed that
oh god god knows what's best for you
that's great
what is that what does that mean and

(15:11):
what do you mean by god like
and and it's just it's just this
open-ended thing where if you question
it falls apart and so they expect you
not to question it just go yeah god's
got my back and move on and that's all
they want
yeah yeah
so i had
as you can imagine from that
just that one silly little post that i

(15:33):
made just sitting right here going back
and forth it was about 25 seconds and i
didn't even think of it as mocking i
just i have two character like i have my
when i make videos that go back and
forth like i always use that sort of
like cali hippie guy voice so i wasn't
using it in a sense of like oh this
person's dumb and this is me and my

(15:54):
regular voice that's smart it kind of
obviously came off as that but it was a
simple like i have that have literally
had that argument people are like well
someone had to have created the universe
it's like okay well who created god like
why don't we just cut out god's always
been why can't we just say the universe
has always been like what's the what's

(16:14):
the difference there and and everyone
was like
yeah like i even had
people who said they were agnostic or
atheists like
like this isn't cool bro like you're
mocking police like let people believe
what they want to believe and i'm like i
didn't even think this is mocking i just
this is literally how a lot of the
arguments go and then they don't there

(16:36):
isn't a great response because
there's just there just isn't because
it's hard to argue that and a lot of the
arguments that were coming up were no
bro god's outside space and time and i'm
like how do you know that like why are
you settling on that mate that's another
made-up answer like who said that who's
like what how do you know that why can't

(16:56):
the universe just be
what is
well because then then i'm i'm
responsible right like
that's all it is it's interesting
because you when you really like pin it
down you're like okay okay fine let's
say there's a god and god created
everything
out of
itself because god is everything so

(17:18):
we're all god
and immediately the argument just
fizzles because that point
is what we don't want to see we want
that disconnect we want that division no
no no no no i can't be
gotten action i can't be the universe in
action because then you know who's
taking care of me
right i can't be responsible for all of
for my life because you know god's ha

(17:39):
god has a plan so all that falls apart
it's just the division they
just don't want to let it go and when
you really bring them down far enough to
it and i know because i was going
through the comment thread on your video
having a great time
and
eventually it just it just falls apart
to them disappearing they just disappear

(18:00):
because they have nothing left like this
is why i love the argument that jesus
never claimed to be the only son of god
because most christians
don't know that
they don't they don't they'll
immediately toss out john 3 16.
immediately john 3 16 it's like and and
god so loved the world that he gave his
only begotten son

(18:22):
right
fine
jesus isn't talking at john 3 16. the
quote ends at 3 15. why would jesus
suddenly start going and god so loved
the world that he gave me like it's so
out of character to everything else that
he's saying in that chapter
but the quote ends at 3 15. jesus never
claimed to be the only son of god he

(18:44):
said our father said love your neighbor
as yourself he said everything that
contradicts the idea that he is the only
child of god but he never said he was
the only child of god they even accused
him of it when he was being crucified
even then he's like no i'm the son of
man
yeah that was it but
christians don't look at it because it

(19:04):
it contradicts the entire goddamn story
and that's why i always say the only
parts of the of the new testament that
don't contradict jesus are the parts
where jesus is speaking
everything else is interpretation by
other people who didn't understand the
point so most christians don't follow
jesus
they followed the people who didn't

(19:24):
understand jesus and that brings me no
end of laughter
yeah that's
oh it's it's wild not yeah
when it comes to that idea of god is you
know the idea that god is everything and
everywhere like omnipotent and
omniscient all-knowing etc etc it's like

(19:45):
it's always taught that and yet
you know it gets to oh god is everything
and everywhere then that means we're all
god like there isn't a disconnect and
there's like nah nope uh-uh nope
disconnect not us but he's everything
and everywhere
well
yeah but like like sort of he's like in

(20:06):
us but he's not us and it's like what
you're that doesn't make any sense like
what are you talking
i really don't want to look at it though
so no
that's that's all it is the mental
gymnastics
they're amazing they're they're really
fun to watch because you can walk people
in circles over and over and over again
always coming back to the same point

(20:27):
which is unarguable like you're just
perceiving a division because you want
to
and eventually they'll just stop talking
to you they'll just disappear
then there's nothing you can do about it
because
they don't want to see
but i like walking them up to that cliff
i like walking them right up to that
point where it's like just so we're both
clear
the moment you run away which is going

(20:48):
to happen anytime now
is because you don't believe
see that's the point the only reason you
don't want to question is because you
don't
that's it and you know you don't so you
don't want to look too deeply into it
because then all your doubts are going
to come up so instead you're going to
tell me that i
i'm wrong you're going to tell me that i

(21:10):
don't see i'm not clear about god i'm
the one limiting god despite the fact
that you're not listening to any of my
arguments despite the fact that you're
not listening to any of the points that
i'm making because it is the easiest way
to get out of the insight that would
otherwise happen
do you think that's why like in that in
the video that i made with the back and
forth like there were so many people

(21:31):
just like this isn't cool man like
you're mocking they kind of go at that
and like like get it my
character for the way that i created the
video which i didn't think was that
absurd i thought it was a pretty
standard video but do you think that
they do that because they don't want to
come to terms with what i'm actually

(21:52):
saying which is questioning
everything about
their
very unstable belief system absolutely
well that's what it is i mean
it's um
it's interesting because it's like the
old joke you know sometimes an
inferiority complex is the result of you
actually being inferior so it's like you
know sometimes you're you're doubtful

(22:14):
because you really are doubtful that
that's the point sometimes you're
uncomfortable because you don't and it's
like i'd rather just put it on you i'd
rather put it on you and then they they
do that all the time because the
alternative is again
talking to you and since you're willing
to talk
that's a threat too
right christians would prefer to be

(22:35):
persecuted
which is why they enjoy saying they're
the most persecuted religion on the
planet right like they they enjoy that
idea of of being held down
you know and oppressed and it's like i
think you need to get familiar with your
history because it's you who have been
doing most of the oppressing but by
playing victim there's a lot of juice

(22:57):
that goes with that they get to play the
martyr there's actually this [ __ ] on
tick tock i run across his live feed all
the time he walks around his city
carrying a life-size crucifix
think about that he just walks around
carrying crucifix on his shoulder like
he's jesus
right it's like really
really like how self-important are you
exactly how little of this is about god

(23:19):
and this is really just about you and
your piety and all this crap
and it's it's so very interesting to
watch because
jesus
never made a show dude just walked
around talking to people
why would he make a show
right unless it was about him
and that that's why i always find
christians funny it's like you know oh

(23:40):
you got to follow jesus's footsteps it's
like well jesus wasn't following anybody
else's footsteps so there's a good place
to start
yeah
that is a great argument yeah because
that's literally what he did he wasn't
following
anyone and yet somehow all of a sudden
because

(24:01):
yeah i guess when he said i am the way
the truth and life they thought of he's
talking about himself
and and admittedly like
yeah i i think he should have probably
saw that coming and i'm going to make a
point of this on tick tock at some point
just because it's fun to me to say say
things that upset people but
jesus got it wrong i mean at the end of
the day he didn't let it go he didn't

(24:23):
let the whole idea of me go he should
have been out there telling everybody
else that they were the the truth the
light and the life in the way like
saying i am the way the truth and the
life if you understand your audience
you're gonna get lynched you're gonna
get you know strung up and nailed to a
cross because
people don't like feeling less

(24:44):
they will tear you down just to prove
that you can't be who you are
there's a there's this great book about
jesus
actually it's it's a fiction um it's
called lamb and it's written about the
story of jesus from childhood onward
through the perspective of his best
friend biff
and the story is hilarious it's great

(25:04):
because it takes on jesus being a kid
questioning his religion getting to
about 12 years old going this doesn't
make sense to me and then going on a
journey with his best friend biff up
into india and up towards tibet
sampling psychedelics learning about
different religions things like this
great story it's so good and then coming
back in that whole story and then what
what he did from there

(25:26):
but the end of the story i'm not going
to spoil it or anything the argument was
very much like why did you betray jesus
it's like because somebody like that
can't
can't walk around showing us all what
we're not being
right like we just we can't abide by
that existing in the world showing us
what we can possibly be

(25:47):
because we don't want to admit that we
can be it
and i thought that that point was great
because it's true it's kind of like what
i was saying about the guy who got mad
at me for laughing all the time
right it's like why would that anger you
aside from the fact that you have
problems laughing
yeah
yeah exactly everything is a reflection

(26:07):
oneself
and what you do or don't want to see
but yeah i think i think you mentioned
uh lamb i think maybe it was our first
podcast episode i still yeah i gotta get
to that one but it sounds good
pretty good yeah i really enjoyed it
there's there's one part well i'll let
you read it it's just a good book it's
well written and and you really get

(26:29):
attached to the characters and um
and again i mean it's just as valid as
the bible at the end of the day i mean
that's that's the whole point there was
another um
there was this channeler god i think
it's about 15 years ago um who decided
to channel jesus or at least what she
assumed was jesus and so she wrote these

(26:49):
letters from jesus basically letters in
the persona of being the christ
consciousness as as she saw it
they were really interesting i actually
thought i was like wow
there's some good insight here like yeah
it's still the story of jesus and blah
blah blah but the insights were solid
and and i think that's the point is that
the story is irrelevant right like the

(27:10):
story is just a story you can get things
out of it
or not but when you start holding on to
the story and saying this is the truth
that falls flat on its face every time
because the story is never the truth
like not even the simplest story of
yesterday was halloween my daughter went
out trick-or-treating and came home like

(27:31):
that's a really simple story that has
infinite facets and infinite things that
happen during the entirety of that
happening
that the story doesn't encompass that
the story only gives a superficial face
to
right so
the story is not what is the story is
not what happened
right so all we can do is glean the
insights from the story which is what
the gnostics originally did with the old

(27:53):
testaments before they were written down
right it was just oral stories
about judas about thomas about john
about all these apostles and jesus they
were just they were just stories and
then they would talk about what they
learned from it and then pass the mic
off to the next person in the room
because there was no priest
yeah

(28:14):
yeah uh what
someone
yeah does
with someone like a channeler like that
i'm curious
like
how
do they
think that they're actually
channeling jesus or do you think like do
you think it's just

(28:35):
made up or do you think
that i think it's coming from somewhere
i think it's so like weird like where do
you think it comes from that do you
think there was a jesus
and i'm not saying the physical man i'm
saying taking jesus's point say
everything that jesus was saying
do you think there was a jesus to
channel

(29:00):
uh
like he was negating his entire
character everything he was saying was
i'm not
i'm not this physical thing that you
think i am i'm not the physical thing
that i think i am
so what are we channeling if not just
awareness without us identifying
yeah
right so we're not really channeling so
much as just accessing the same thing

(29:22):
that we all have access to but
just like anything else
that's going to be limited on our
capacity to deal with that unity to deal
with that lack of division and most
people will never ever think
think that way like you will have people
who channel jesus before they will say i
am jesus

(29:42):
right and it's again you see you could
feel the ego like oh you want to say
that right but that's that's closer to
the truth
that's by far closer to the truth but
it's it's it's the same thing as saying
i am god
the ego immediately goes oh oh he's
putting himself up here he's above
everybody he's god right it's like

(30:03):
that's not what god means
like that's just your assumption of god
and the same is true for jesus
everything that people think about jesus
is an assumption
it's all based on the story or based on
their perception of themselves or based
on their perception of what life is
so that's what they get out of it when
they read the story whereas i read the
story and

(30:23):
he says you know only through me can you
find my father
that makes perfect sense only through
yourself can you find your awareness
without limitation that's all he meant
by father
he was just trying to describe the
division that was it yeah i know it's
kind of i feel like it's kind of
it's kind of a bummer that he used words

(30:43):
like father and
things like that and i know he's just
what he was like kind of using the
terminology that he could at the time to
to reach the people that he was
speaking with but
it's just been taken so
literally like he is a son and god is
his daddy and

(31:03):
like
it's ah
and but people still like i'll say oh so
do you think god is an old
white man with a white beard sitting up
in the sky they're like well no but you
know something had to create the
universe there had to be a creator and
it's like then why don't you use that
same logic to
the creator like who created the creator

(31:25):
it's like it it goes down this rabbit
hole and people would say that too and
he's you know on the back and forth so
like it goes down this rabbit hole that
we're never gonna get to so like why
even why even try just like just stop
like no
there actually is a definitive end to
that rabbit hole
you
you're the end of the rabbit hole it's

(31:46):
like well who created the creator well
you did
think about it you're doing it right now
[Laughter]
holy [ __ ] yeah
yeah right and that's it like somebody
asked me
the other day there is uh the comment
was i i can't i can't not believe in god

(32:06):
like i just can't no matter how much i
try i cannot stop believing in god and i
wrote well you do it every time you're
not thinking about it
seriously
it's an action
belief in god is an action like you
don't have to take that action
you don't have to take the action that's

(32:28):
it it's not something that you must do
but believers are so invested in belief
that even the idea that you don't
believe has to be a belief
it has to be because that's all the
universe is is belief that that's that
is it it's no no there's nothing but
what i believe
and the idea well what you believe is

(32:49):
irrelevant to what is
it's not comfortable i actually had
somebody respond to me on on
instagram yesterday to one of my posts
saying hold on whoa whoa you're saying
my belief isn't real but i'm believing
what's real it's like you're not you're
believing what you want to be real
you're believing what you fear to be
real you're believing what you perceive
to be real all of that's true that's not

(33:10):
necessarily what's real
it's just not it's just what dictates
your experience
but no because the alternative is well
then i don't know what's going on
yeah because because what is
is
it's not

(33:31):
it's outside of the realm of beliefs
right always like always is always will
be so the universe is like what is the
antithesis of
belief
so it's like it can't be that the
universe is
all beliefs it's like the only thing
that the universe is is
outside of belief it's that which is

(33:52):
outside of beliefs beliefs and the
universe are
like would you say they're mutually
exclusive like what is and what is
believing what we want to be
what is and what we want to be or what
is and what what we can
understand or interpret their being at
most
right but it's this idea that the
description is the described

(34:13):
right my interpretation is what i'm
interpreting because the alternative is
is
uncomfortable but the alternative is
something that we know and we realize
all the time when we make assumptions
and we realize those assumptions aren't
correct
right like we immediately have to
question the assumptions but if you
walked around
making assumptions and then every time
something proved you wrong going nope

(34:34):
there that's not correct you would never
learn a single thing right so it's funny
that we can
learn from our assumptions in little
things like say schooling or our job or
our relationships but when it comes to
something that is the crux of our
existence which is the crux of our fear
we don't want to question that [ __ ] at
all right despite the fact that
it's in letting go of the belief

(34:55):
that you let go of all that fear
right
yeah
because the reality is you're here now
that that is the reality the reality
that we all want to dodge is that
i am here now
my interpretation of all of that aside
my opinion of all of that aside that is
all that's true

(35:16):
from my experience
and if i can't come to terms with that
that's my problem
and and that is where religion comes
from that's where a great many of our
problems come from is
we've just never been told now you just
kind of kind of come to terms with the
reality which is that you're here now
and you don't know anything else but
that what do you want to do

(35:38):
so why do you think so many people
don't want to
accept that
here now because they're uncomfortable
about
you know
the future or
what is like that to me
here now
seems like the greatest thing greatest
realization i've ever come across but it

(35:59):
didn't always
right like when you
when your reality when your experience
was your thoughts about yourself
the last place you wanted to be was here
now stuck with that person
okay that's it right it's like
if i'm not avoiding here now i have to
deal with all this [ __ ] i'm holding on

(36:20):
to and so we think about the future we
think about the past we think about
other people we get distracted we we do
all that
whereas we don't realize the only reason
here and now is so uncomfortable is
because we're bringing an [ __ ] with
us into it right we're bringing this
fictitious thing into the here and now
and then creating this this experience
of here and now based on it whereas we

(36:41):
can just leave that fiction aside and
then we find ourselves in in very much a
blank slate you know it's um
often when i was dealing with anxiety
i would i would go home and sit in my
living room i'd feel the anxiety and i
just look around at the walls and go
right
the only thing that's real right now
is the room that i'm in

(37:04):
that's it everything else is just in my
head
so i'm going to focus on the room i'm in
because this is what's what's real and
that helped me get over my anxiety
anxiety quite quite a lot because
it's all in our head like the majority
of the stuff we're afraid of are things
that we think we should be afraid of
yeah
yeah it helps me

(37:25):
every day just
reminding myself of what is here now and
like focusing on my senses what i can
see and hear and
whatnot is is yeah extremely beneficial
um
something else
i don't know if we've ever talked about
like
the your sort of
flip of the switch
moment like 20 years ago

(37:48):
like what
like was that a
specific
thing
or was it sort of
a progressive i don't know which is
really surprising to me that we haven't
like discussed this i don't know if i've
heard us before so for me it it kind of
went in in um

(38:09):
small stages in in between wanting to
kill myself uh
so i was depressed and suicidal for a
long time a long time like i i remember
years of just waking up every morning
and wishing that i hadn't walking to the
bus to get to work thinking about
jumping off a bridge thinking about
jumping in front of traffic or in front
of the subway like it was just it was
constant all day every day i was just

(38:29):
looking for opportunities to kill myself
and trying desperately to avoid
wanting to um
and so
couldn't escape it for years finally i
just sold all my [ __ ] jumped in a jumped
on a bus and went from province to
province in canada just trying to find
some way to deal with who i was and and
that didn't help at all i ended up

(38:51):
traveling around coming back to the city
that i had left still depressed um
how old were you uh at this point i
would probably have been 19 20.
and um
and then one night i was
i remember i was sitting down i had uh i
had sampled some ecstasy with with a
friend of mine and uh i was we were just

(39:12):
sitting in my basement chilling and i
was i was kind of all pissed off and i
had this little notebook and so i just
started
writing and journaling which i did to
myself all the time but there was actual
enthusiasm and more than a little anger
behind it this time because i was in a
state where i could see myself clearly i
could see how much damage i was doing to
myself
and so i wrote all this book and then by
the end of it it got like really angry

(39:33):
by the end of the book and i chucked it
out but it just i suddenly came to terms
with exactly
how toxic my my narrative or my story
and my life story really was it didn't
dawn on me i could stop telling myself
that story it just dawned on me that it
it was a shitty story and that i had a
lot of reasons to be depressed
and then i did in fact self-admit myself

(39:55):
to the psych ward of a hospital and then
you know i went through the whole
suicide thing and and whatnot and i
didn't die and what i recognized was
that i didn't really want to die because
although my life had been [ __ ]
there had to be something i could do
with all of those lessons like there had
to be some point to going through all of
that crap there had to be something that
i could do with today based on

(40:17):
everything i had been through but i
didn't know what it was and i was still
really unhappy and so about six months
passed and uh i was my only support was
my cat
cosmo best cat in the world manny cat
was with me for like 18 years swear to
god he saved my life more than anything
else
and then i ended up running across an
old friend one day just happenstance i
was on the bus heading home from work so

(40:37):
i'm standing on the butt on the street
corner i got off the bus i'm like oh my
god i haven't seen you in forever
started talking
he just broke up with his girlfriend
needed a roommate i was depressed like
all right let's move in together so we
did that we were sitting there one night
and i i had started spiraling again i
was pretty sure i was going to kill
myself this time there was nothing left
i i no matter how much i wanted to make

(40:58):
the most of my life i just couldn't let
go of my story
i just didn't see how i could
and then uh he's like well you never
really talk about life anymore
nobody cares
nobody cares
and he's like well i care
and it hit me that i i didn't care that
was the thing it's like i was talking

(41:18):
for somebody else's reason like i wanted
to make sense to other people and it
dawned on me like
why do i care if nobody else cares why
isn't it enough that i care why isn't it
enough that i give a [ __ ]
and so
that was it that was it that was the day
that changed my life because i
recognized
that's the one thing i had been missing
the whole time i wasn't living for me

(41:39):
i was living for everybody else i was
living for my place in the world i was
living for how other people saw me how
they thought about me how i fit into
their relationships
and
upon realizing i wasn't living for
myself i realized that's what most
people aren't doing and the whole world
just kind of opened up
and i started seeing things differently
and the next morning i remember staring

(42:01):
out my window and and recently in this
place that i was living we had had a
misunderstanding with a neighbor who was
a crackhead and so he owed people money
and those people came to my house by
mistake
and started breaking all my windows and
so we're in the middle of the winter
with these garbage bags over the windows
right and it's cold as hell and i'm
grinning like an idiot staring outside

(42:23):
at the snow because it dawned on me that
i'm never going to see my life in the
same way again
and i never did
that was it and then and ever since then
it always comes back to
i'm the center of my universe i'm the
center of my existence it's me
it has to be me if i'm not living for me
then i'm dancing to a game that i'm
assuming is playing is being played and

(42:45):
it's i fooled myself too many times to
care
that changed everything for me but it
was that or death like i was circling
the drain for years i i couldn't
it was either the miraculous was going
to happen or i wasn't going to make it
much longer
yeah wow so

(43:05):
so you think it came back to the
real like the
the crux of the sort of realization was
that you were
not living
for yourself like you were living for
my story what
yeah i was living for my story it wasn't
just
i didn't just make friends i made

(43:26):
friends based on who i was and my
history and my ability like it was all
this idea of who i was i didn't just
meet people i met people who were
impressed with me or weren't impressed
with me might like me next time like
there was always this
there's something more than just here
and now there's something more that i
have to attain there's something more in
terms of other people's perception of me

(43:46):
and then finally it just came down to
no it has to be this moment
this moment has to be
everything for me
if i'm not happy with this moment that
is my problem that's my problem
and
when you look at the world that way
your priorities change
right like

(44:07):
yeah you don't want people to be upset
with you sure
because
you don't want to be the kind of person
that upsets people it's not because of
the impact on them it's because of the
kind of person you're choosing to be
and and the consequences that come from
that choice and that comes from
accountability which means that you have
to be accountable you have to be
responsible
for your present moment

(44:28):
everything else changed from there
because as soon as i realized the
present moment is what i have
i realize my idea of myself doesn't fit
in that present moment i have to just be
in it and be it
and everything became easier after that
but
and and i wanted to say this last time
because it's true
the point of the journey or rather the

(44:49):
hardest part of my cautionary tale if
you want to call it that is that
having the insight is one thing as
you've noticed
these are great insights they're very
exciting
as you get older as you go through the
months and the years and the different
experiences and the relationships and
the conversations
you have to stay on it you have to keep

(45:09):
questioning yourself you can't just fall
back into the old habit even though it's
always tempting and everybody wants you
to
the fact is is that
the real work
is remembering you're not who you think
you are the real work is is keeping in
mind that the present is what's real
that what's in your mind is not
and

(45:30):
often though people have that insight
young usually as a result of
psychedelics um
they they lose it in in the in the push
they lose it in the [ __ ] that is reality
like they go to work they get a job they
get they get married they have a bad
relationship something and it all just
kind of falls apart because at that
point you start going i just want to
feel comfortable again i just want to
feel certain again right so it really is

(45:53):
it has to be a practice like if you're
going to be in a relationship in this
mindset you almost can't be in a
relationship in this mindset you have to
be free in yourself and the other person
does as well
that's that's that's difficult to find
if you're impatient and needy
so
you think it's a lot more difficult in

(46:14):
this
like living life without this or less of
a perception
of yourself and your story and an idea
of who you are you think it's
no my life is way easier now oh my god
yeah oh my gosh it weighs
and and while it's true you always have
to be on the ball

(46:35):
you always have to be on the ball like
you just can't slip you you just have to
be aware that's all that that means is
just be prepared to admit you might be
wrong or that you might be getting
caught up in something that's really all
it is right
and and that in itself
you know is a practice we just practice
that we practice where we get distracted
and where we don't um
but what came before that the weight

(46:57):
the weight of the narrative the weight
of my story of me and the world and the
history and the future and all of this
stuff
that was so much harder that was so much
harder like the expression that
ignorance is bliss is said by the
ignorant
right because it's really not i in fact
is i would rather have eyes wide open

(47:19):
than to have them closed
because at least seeing what is i can
deal with with my opinion of what is
right but up until then i was just i was
struggling with an illusion that i was
perpetuating
so no matter how hard i struggled
against it and it's kind of like the ego
right like when people struggle against
their ego they don't realize you are

(47:41):
your ego
so every every amount of struggle you
put against it you're giving it that
energy like you're creating your own
enemy
right that that's the whole thing that's
why i was saying last week when you're
talking to eric
be careful how often you say it's really
hard to stop judging
it's not
it's not we just want to say it is
because that's more ego

(48:04):
yeah
yeah and it's yeah the story you keep
telling yourself kind of
comes to
fruition and that's if you believe that
to be
what is but i think yeah the idea of
like living through the perception of
yourself i mean that's kind of how it
went for me i think with less probably
less of a
of a timeline leading up to it

(48:27):
necessarily but it was still more or
less a similar story of i had this
perception
of myself and things you know thought
patterns that i was struggling with
and it was only a week but it felt like
a really you know seven days straight of
waking up and and having the same
like pattern of thoughts kind of run

(48:47):
through
your head and then and then finally
coming to the realization that oh like
this is all
having to do with ideas in my head about
my past and
things that happened and what if you
know what if none of that is real and
and only what is real is

(49:08):
is here and now and so i was like oh
[ __ ] well maybe i don't have a past in
that sense then if i don't have a past
then who is who is andrew besides this
made-up story of things that have
happened to
this
grouping of cells that we call andrew in
the past it is nothing so

(49:29):
if i am aware of here and now then maybe
i'm not
just andrew
and that's when it hit me and it was
like yeah i'll never forget that
moment glorious freedoms
[Laughter]
yeah that's what it is well because

(49:50):
again being high and relaxing is
synonymous right like when you're high
you're just an advanced state of
relaxation and so the more you relax the
higher you feel which is why these
conversations are so much fun as eric
noticed last week by the end of the
conversation you could tell he was
having a great time right it's because
these conversations
help remove the weight or rather they
help remind us that we can take the

(50:11):
weight off
right and
that's all we need if we had more
conversations like this you would find
you know communicating with people to be
a lot easier and a lot more enjoyable
but most of the conversations we have
are very much us trying to maintain
control over our self-image right or
control over the self-image that or the
image that other people have of us and
so as long as we play that game it's

(50:33):
very difficult to us to just relax into
the present and to model all that you
can relax into the present right because
that's all this is about like when
you're talking to somebody and you don't
need anything from them
they just open up
that's it because everybody wants to
everybody wants to be free
right sometimes we're just afraid to be
free and i think that's probably the

(50:54):
saddest part about religion is that
they're afraid
to let god in
they're afraid to let themselves be
one with the universe because they think
that they will be judged for everything
they did up until now
and that's
that's sad especially considering
they're following somebody who said
god forgives you no worries just relax

(51:17):
right like god's forgiveness is eternal
and then we superimpose this idea well
unless you break the ten commandments
and then you're going to hell
burning bernie in hell forever
but
yeah so with with an idea like that like
something like
you know shame or something do you think

(51:37):
shame is
always
something that you should like shouldn't
feel like do you think shame i don't
have a word this like shame is ever
necessary
yeah well i mean sense
shame is when we're over invested in our
idea of ourselves right shame is pretty
much down at the bottom end of our over

(52:00):
investment in our idea of ourself that
goes towards like apathy um
because now all we see
is is who we think we are and it's all
negative
it's it's all just judgment and and
despair and because we think we're it
it becomes
our reality and i know i i lived in

(52:20):
shame for a very long time shame and
guilt
and and and self-hatred and loathing um
and it was all because
i didn't like
who i thought i was i didn't realize
that it was who i thought i was i didn't
like not who i was it was who i thought
it was i didn't like like i didn't get
that there were there were two things

(52:41):
happening there like i didn't understand
there's me and then there's what i think
of me
we don't get it's just like the belief
argument right like there's a difference
between what is
and what i think is
right and and that's that's what i
didn't understand all i could see
was what i thought i was
and the idea that what i thought i was

(53:03):
was inaccurate was something my ego
couldn't handle because i was even less
control
right like that's the thing is that
there's there's almost um a preference
to hating myself rather than not knowing
who i am

(53:23):
oh you're on you
oh there you go oh you're back
okay
um
yeah say that last one hating yourself
as opposed to not knowing who i am
i would prefer to know who i am
even if i hate that thing
than to feel uncertain
and that's what really dawned on me was

(53:45):
that i was holding on
to my misery
because i was afraid of more misery
and it didn't make any sense like and
and that was the breaking point for me
it's like
i have nowhere else to go like there's
nowhere else for me to take this train
except off a cliff
so i'm just gonna stop playing
i'm done as of right now i'm not what i

(54:07):
think i am
good to go let's find out what i am and
ever since then that's what life is
let's see what i can do let's see what's
next let's see what's going to unfold
here let's jump into this situation and
see what i do
because i don't know
i don't know what i'm going to do and i
don't tell myself
one way or another anymore i just throw

(54:27):
in and see what happens
do you think that it comes down to a
level of
like the idea that you'd rather
be uncertain
or you'd rather hate
yours
the idea of yourself but know who you
are than be uncertain do you think that
comes down to
just like ignorance is bliss and like a

(54:49):
comfortability with
the unknown because i feel like a lot of
people kind of fall into that
it's a definitely
yeah yeah
oh yeah for sure i i can't tell you like
and i know from when i was in that state
of mind
that
when you're lost in your identity when

(55:10):
you're lost in the narrative and the
self-loathing
and somebody comes up to you and they
say something like you know
this isn't what it appears to be you
don't have to carry all this there's a
way past this they just try and remind
you it's going to pass anything like
that depending how far in the pit you
are
you will actually defend your suffering
you don't understand you you're not in

(55:30):
my situation you you could never you
don't get what it's like and you'll
you'll put up these these barriers about
how your pain is special
not realizing that what you're doing is
saying i don't want to let that go
right and it's because it's it's what i
know
it's what i know and i think that you

(55:51):
know in in identifying with it i'm
somehow curing it or i'm somehow getting
closer to a cure it's like alan watts
saying that you know no amount of worry
has ever gotten anything done
and it's it's very it doesn't mean we
stop worrying does it
we keep doing it like it's going to pay
off and it's just because we don't
really look at it at it closely enough
to recognize it which is why my life

(56:12):
coaching business was called
transcendence right because
when you're in apathy and despair and
guilt and all that
you can't resolve those things
by looking at yourself in my opinion you
can't go back into your childhood trauma
you can't go back into your old
relationships because all you're going
to do in doing that is continue to look
at those experiences through the lens

(56:33):
that you're holding on to
right through the idea of yourself that
you're holding on to and so all you're
going to end up doing is spinning your
wheels coming up with more and more
reason the reasons to identify
whereas with transcendence it's
recognizing that
none of those things defined you none of
those things were who you are they're
just things you went through things that
you've learned from or have the capacity

(56:53):
to learn from and change from
but they don't make you you it's the
difference between recognizing that
you are
potentially anything versus you are the
sum of your parts that you are the sum
of all of your experiences which is
usually the common mentality
yeah i feel like that kind of reminds me
of the one-step process that we've

(57:14):
talked about in the past of just
being
that awareness here and now like there
is nothing outside of that there is
trying to go back into those
stories and experiences is just
kind of perpetuating this cycle of
identification with
that idea of yourself your idea of
yourself is not you and if you

(57:35):
stay stuck on that and try to go back
into those experiences and analyze them
and figure out you know who you were
then what you can
do better now it's like you can you can
bypass all that essentially and be here
now and
that will because it's almost like if
you
do that and go back into that

(57:57):
identification it's like
that's that exact process of going back
is gonna it's what's gonna cause you to
do that moving forward it's the same
exact thing so
instead of
because even if you you know learn from
it or whatever like
if you keep going with that mentality

(58:18):
of having something to learn from in
that past identification
there's just going to be new things to
identify with
that keep coming up yeah
absolutely which is why
somebody asked well don't you don't you
look at your past and try and try and
work out you know things that you've
done and the answer is kind of like yes
or no yes and no um i don't deliberately

(58:42):
look to the past trying to find any
answers as to what i'm doing here and
now though in recognizing what i'm doing
here and now and recognizing what
perception i'm holding on to or not
questioning or things like that
my brain comes up with memories that are
relevant to that lesson so i don't go
digging for the memories my brain
provides them as necessary for the

(59:02):
context of the lesson that i'm having
and i find that to be such a very
different process than when i was
younger and going to therapy where it's
like oh let's look back at your
childhood memories and it's like okay
now i'm just it's like i'm
cherry-picking i'm digging for things
right
rather than just letting them happen as
a result of my brain processing
information on its own and so yeah i
find that to be a very different way of

(59:24):
processing your memories as opposed to
deliberately it's more or less you know
um
as a result of the process
instead of being the process itself
yeah yeah i had i can't remember i
brought this up in a past episode but i
was talking to a friend about the idea
of of the here and now being the only
thing you ever
need to

(59:44):
be aware of essentially and he was like
well you know i don't i don't drink
anymore because in the past i
you know didn't like it the way it made
me feel and if i didn't remember
my past then
i wouldn't
i would maybe drink here and there
and i didn't really have i was like yeah

(01:00:04):
that's kind of a good point i don't know
if i if i have a great answer for like
maybe yeah i guess maybe there are times
when the past is
beneficial but i i i tried to like sort
of talk through it and i was like
yeah so
it can be
in a deliberate sense but
more so when it's you're just ruminating

(01:00:25):
on it mindlessly it's like that's a very
mindful like like deliberate
way of utilizing the past to
dictate or
benefit you
in the present however if you're
ruminating on it and almost like
feeling shame about how you were
back then

(01:00:46):
it's it's not so i guess it depends on
the context you take it but i'm curious
what your thoughts are oh for sure well
i mean that's the thing is that
we experience time
so we we tend to
um
adapt to our experience of time like we
have context as a result right but the
danger is in
in cherry picking a memory and going

(01:01:08):
okay but
this was my opinion of that memory then
therefore it will be my opinion of that
memory forever
um
and that's what i mean like a lot of
people when they quit drinking
they'll never touch a drink again and
it's because the alcohol is the problem
it's like the alcohol wasn't the problem
the the alcohol was what you reached for
in a state of mind that caused it to be

(01:01:29):
a problem
so
if you're in a different state of mind
that experience is going to change in
the future right like when i was younger
i would have called myself an alcoholic
and i wouldn't have touched alcohol at
all now i'll drink from time to time and
i feel no desire to have a second drink
and it's not because anything has
changed about alcohol it's because my my

(01:01:49):
mentality about alcohol has changed i
don't think it can make me happy i don't
think it does make me a more relaxed
person or releases my inhibitions it's
just something i enjoy for the flavor so
it
it comes down to if i was to base my
current opinions based on my previous
opinions all the time
i would never experience anything new
but

(01:02:10):
if i went through something before and
it was a terrible experience then yeah i
should probably keep that in mind the
next time i go forward but it's it's
it's one thing to assume similarity
means the same
right it's they're they're
they're similar they're not identical
and then that's the thing about
experiences you know like i've picked up
this this coffee cup a thousand times
before but never like i just did in the

(01:02:31):
mentality i'm in right now
it's always it's always new regardless
of how similar it might be
um
or i don't know if i ever thought of it
like that that
what was what was it similarity does not
it's not inside
yeah it's not identical
right similarities are our similarities
but you know to be identical it has to

(01:02:52):
be an exact match and that's never the
case that's that's never the case like
something's always different
even if it's just you yeah
yeah certainly
okay cool yeah that's uh
that makes sense something else i know
we've talked about this all right we got
we got a little bit of time um we talked

(01:03:14):
last time about or two episodes ago
about wanting to go into
the whole astrology
uh i don't know like maybe even crystal
realm of things and i know that you have
you know you said when you were going
through hell you tried to you know latch
onto anything and everything to try and
help you

(01:03:34):
feel better basically would you
yeah with those things like astrology
crystals i know they're still
just believing in something outside of
yourself essentially
but
do you think it's all do you think it's
all [ __ ] no i mean
okay so crystals for example crystals

(01:03:56):
hold of resonance like they vibrate
that that's not really deniable that's
something that we know um
whether crystals vibrate in a certain
way that provide
this feeling or this feeling or this
feeling that's all based on somebody
else's interpretations and you know i i
will give them at least the the
credibility in saying that
i'm not going to discount it because i

(01:04:17):
didn't do that research myself and i
haven't spent the time to actually like
try and observe if these crystals have
the effect that they do um i've had
crystals in my house and otherwise and
i'll be honest it doesn't doesn't really
change anything about my life but but
then again i i specifically work on a
mentality where
the external doesn't matter
to my life um so again crystals are

(01:04:40):
interesting um they do hold properties i
don't know what those properties are um
but i know that they're never going to
do the work for you i i know that at
most they're going to be an accessory
that might make you feel more
comfortable in doing your own inner work
but i i can't ever see a crystal helping
you transcend a certain state of mind
except you know in the same way that a

(01:05:01):
safety blanket might
as for astrology
there's an old expression that astrology
is the earliest form of idolatry
which i love i love that expression you
know false idol worship basically
looking outside yourself but on the
other hand we're talking about giant
massive entities that are floating
around in our solar system that all have

(01:05:23):
gravity that all have an electromagnetic
pull and they all rotate around each
other and we know scientifically that
those those those magnetic poles those
gravity uh those forces of gravity
actually do have a measurable measurable
impact on us here on earth even
the
phenomenon of a supermoon for example
where the moon is closer to earth than

(01:05:45):
it ever than it normally is
changes our mentality it has an actual
effect on our brains and on our
physiology because of course we're 70
water right so if the moon does that
then the planets which are way bigger
are going to have some impact and and
the original
idea of astrology
came about through thousands of years of

(01:06:05):
observation of trying to figure out
what this is so again i give it some
degree of credibility in the same way
that i would want somebody to give me
credibility if i spent a long time
trying to research something that other
people didn't necessarily see or
understand
but that doesn't mean i take it as you
know written in stone this is what it is
especially considering that astrology as

(01:06:26):
we as we practice it right now
is outdated like we have moved
significantly since the majority of our
astrology was created several thousands
of years ago and so like i'm a cancer
i'm not right because cancer is not in
the same place that it used to be when
that chart was originally created
several thousand years ago we're in a
different place in space right so so

(01:06:50):
it's very much the form
has taken over what the function was
whereas the function at one point was
something that was that was done on the
fly like in india i think it is um there
is this this place where you can go and
i've read about this
where a couple thousand years ago
somebody who was so a good so good at
astrology basically did a chart

(01:07:10):
for every single person who would ever
find their way
to that building so if you were to go
there today
you would find your chart
that's pretty cool
right like
it would define my chart your chart
specifically for you because they knew
you would go to that place that that's

(01:07:30):
at least how the story goes so it makes
you think
was astrology something way deeper
back then
than it is now and you can't say well no
because you have to remember that you
know the babylonians for example knew
about all of the planets in our solar
system and their their their places and
their sizes before there was ever a

(01:07:52):
telescope
that we know of
so we can't
really say
that that we know for sure astrology is
bunk but what i can say is that i know
the majority of people who practice
astrology are doing so from a mentality
where it wouldn't matter what the
astrology was they would believe it
because they want to

(01:08:13):
um
yeah that makes sense okay what uh with
with the babylonians how the hell do you
think they knew
that stuff
well see this is the thing it's kind of
like the ancient egyptians right is
they didn't have the internet
and stuff so they all they had was time
and and a really clear night sky

(01:08:36):
and generations like this is what
priesthood priesthoods were often um
created around was you know astrology
and what was happening in the sky and
stuff like that like this is some of our
earliest science
so
considering how long
long ago babylon was and then how old
babylon was and considering that most of
our civilization comes from babylon in

(01:08:57):
terms of like writing and mathematics
and agriculture and all that other stuff
i think that they were just really smart
but
judging by their own tablets they would
disagree with me because the the
babylonians claimed that they were
actually taught
by extraterrestrials so
and then
just tying into that so like what about

(01:09:19):
not tying into that but like with the
ancient egyptians like with the
the pyramids and the
uh
geographical
location of that i don't i haven't done
a ton of research into that but i know
it's like there's definitely some
seemingly
uh i don't know what the word like

(01:09:41):
importance or for sure like
the location of it is very
not just a location yeah like all of the
measurements inside the great pyramid at
giza not just the inside but the outside
so it includes the queen's chamber and
the king's chamber and the length of the
hallways all of it all of them are
direct ratios to measurements of this
planet

(01:10:03):
right they're direct ratios to like the
circumference of our planet or the
distance from our moon like they're all
spot on ratios to measurements that are
that are
important to us as a species on this
planet
and that's amazing considering
we still don't know how that got there
yeah like
i don't know what are your thoughts like

(01:10:25):
do you think it could have been
i don't you think aliens could have came
and built them or it's entirely possible
i mean it's not like they're the only
culture that that um
wrote about or or envisioned beings
coming from the sky i mean mayans did as
well um and so did the vedas but or you
have the nazca lines in south america um

(01:10:48):
i think it's interesting because on the
one hand i'm not going to discount that
there could be extraterrestrial life
because obviously the universe is huge
um
but on the other hand i'm also not going
to discount the fact that we have been
homo sapiens for about a quarter million
years which means we've had this brain
and this capacity for logic and reason
for about a quarter million years

(01:11:08):
we have 10 000 years of written history
um that's a big big gap um so yeah i
think that we've
invented technologies many times and
lost them in the crush of our own
stupidity i think that we've we've
invented you know cities and other
things many times and then you know
that's kind of just been lost to the
wayside because it wouldn't take very
long i mean even even right now if we

(01:11:29):
were to have a cataclysmic event like a
an extinction-level event on this planet
that didn't kill everybody but left
humans behind
it wouldn't take long for most of our
stuff to overgrow within a thousand
years we wouldn't have any any remnants
of this civilization left to look back
at we'd have nothing but a myth and
legend
right and that's that's a thousand years
we've been around for quarter million or

(01:11:51):
so or so if not more there's a lot of
things we've forgotten
yeah so you think there could have been
societies as advanced as we are now that
have come and gone yeah i don't see why
not i think it's totally completely
possible it's funny there was um a guy
named michael tessarion i i ran across a

(01:12:12):
workshop he was doing back in i think
2006 2007 but what he had done was
basically taken aerial maps or aerial
photographs of
these craters all over the world
and then compared
the crater holes to
um
explosions like
nuclear nuclear explosion craters

(01:12:32):
because they're different they look
different right and so we had an expert
compare these these meteor craters these
really old meteor craters with these
these explosion craters and what he
discovered was that quite a few of them
don't resemble meteor craters at all
quite a few of them resemble craters
that would be made by nuclear blasts or
other types of bombs and so it makes you
wonder have we been here before

(01:12:56):
right like there there are things that
we don't understand there's a mountain
in china that's got these like three or
four giant metal pipes sticking out of
it and they're thousands of years old
it's like those are obviously that like
that's not natural right there's a
there's an airstrip at the top of a
mountain range in south america or what
looks like an airstrip like why would
you have that there
right like so there are so many things

(01:13:18):
even like like the nazca lines in in
south america is the one that gets me
the ones with i don't know if you've
seen them basically they're they're
giant pictures of animals that are cut
into the into the countryside but you
can only see them from 10 000 feet up
wow like
because they're just so big they're so
big you can't make them out unless

(01:13:40):
you're in a plane and these were
invented
thousands of years ago
for who
damn right
yeah i never like
this is actually getting me interested
in history because i had never
been interested in history

(01:14:00):
i love history
yeah i do so much more than i did in
school because there's so much
yeah
so so there isn't though
so is it all kind of speculation outside
of
before ten thousand years ago oh maybe
then we lose track like four thousand
years back like everything starts

(01:14:21):
getting really really sketchy after um
well
after jesus really because catholic
church just decided to last two thousand
years it's all it's important um but but
aside from that there there's
there is a lot of history that goes back
through our our um
our empires like if you look at ancient
greek uh ancient greece ancient egypt

(01:14:42):
you go back to babylon samaria things
like that that we have some scattered
history of even in um
mesoamerican culture
the mayans the incas the toltecs things
like that um but then when you start
getting
farther back than that it's like the
common uh decision by our society is we
just lived in caves

(01:15:02):
i was like we're just looking for caves
and it's like okay that makes sense
because that far back there wouldn't be
a structure that would last like the
fact that the pyramid the great pyramid
at giza is where it is and is still
standing is amazing but it doesn't look
the way it used to right like the the
great pyramid of giza used to have a cap

(01:15:23):
on the top
that was made of like uh quartz i think
so it would shine
for miles around like a sun
you could actually see it there there's
stories of how the pyramid used to look
and that's just been you know uh
scavenged and and rated over time as
with many of the other pyramids but just
goes to show you like we assumed things

(01:15:45):
were always a certain way and and they
weren't like uh look at the sphinx right
you know the sphinx its nose dropped off
right
but it broke nobody knew why or rather
everybody kind of speculated oh it's
because of age and blah blah no it's a
bunch of soldiers being a bunch of
[ __ ] with some candidates they just
knocked the nose off in one day
that was it so

(01:16:06):
it's history is really interesting in
the fact that
it's so easy to get caught up in an
assumption of what history is
instead of realizing that that there are
so many stories there are so many
stories like we we just don't know we
can take the superficial and we can go
yeah that happened that's uh have you
ever read um
the iliad in the odyssey

(01:16:28):
uh i think it might have been an
assignment way back in my
yeah catholic middle school days but
that's loosely based on history too
yeah right so it just goes to show how
our storytelling has changed over time i
mean back in the day history was told by
bards
right musicians people who would sell it

(01:16:48):
tell it orally right and now we have it
written down so it makes sense that we
don't have a great deal of our of of
history beyond five to ten thousand
years ago
yeah
damn i'm about to go on a history tear i
think
speaking my interest for sure
yeah i love history and it's something i
tell my daughter all the time because

(01:17:10):
it's a story
right it's a story and as long as you
don't get caught up in and having to
know all the details
it just adds to your life it just adds
to things you know like the easter
island heads you're like where did that
come from and and just
like any of those things it it's amazing
stonehenge right
amazing uh the idea of atlantis amazing

(01:17:31):
there's this pyramid off the coast of
japan that's underwater like what where
did that come from just just so much and
i mean and it doesn't even end there i
mean give you an example so where i live
on vancouver island um
the there was a
tribe north of here called the comox
tribe and they were so advanced in their

(01:17:52):
time period and we're talking you know
pre-colonialism um
where they had these tiny little pegs
all scattered out within this this bay
right like all along the shoreline going
all the way out into the water these
these little pegs about a foot and a
half from each other and they're just
standing up on the ground and nobody
knew what they were for white people
looking at him going well this is weird
that's cool whatever right of course we

(01:18:14):
wiped out their tribe so nobody was
around to tell us
well some other person from the tribe
came and did some research and it turns
out that those pegs all of those
hundreds and hundreds of pegs all laid
out in neat rows going deeper and deeper
into the water and bigger and bigger
pegs were once used as an advanced
fishing formula basically they would
take little slots of wood and put them

(01:18:35):
in between the pegs to create canals
where the fish would naturally come in
with the tides swim through the canals
get caught up in one area and then they
just closed the door so they could
control how many fish they were catching
they could move the pegs around
according to the tide and it gave them
enough deficit to feed their entire
village
without ever overfishing

(01:18:55):
without ever going beyond their means
using nature as it was intended
yeah
so it's not like we don't have the
ability it's not like we don't have the
the capacity to gain the knowledge that
would allow us to work with the world
it's just that we are impatient
right rather than doing that and and
catching the amount of fish that nature
provides we

(01:19:16):
get boats to go out and fish as much as
they can find for a certain amount of
amount per pound and then they bring
those fish back whether they're needed
or not and then some other person's job
is to sell those fish because of course
we just paid this much per pound and now
so it just gets stupid it's not even
about what's necessary so much as what
drives the economy and pays the next
person in this in this line that we

(01:19:36):
don't need
yeah
yeah
do you think do you think with some of
the historical stuff and
and you know some of the buildings and
the ratios and everything do you think
psychedelic use had
came into play there opening up their oh
yeah capabilities okay for sure

(01:19:58):
psychedelics were
a staple of the old world up until like
100 years ago i mean you gotta remember
it they used to have opium dens in
london
a hundred years ago like you could just
go and do opium because it was it was
okay to do so i mean like
drugs didn't have the stigma that they
have
now a hundred years ago they were they
were pretty much everywhere all the time

(01:20:19):
i mean you can find i don't know a dozen
two dozen quotes by by the american
founding fathers telling and telling you
to grow hemp
just grow hep lots of it indian hemp
seed grow it ben franklin george
washington they all said it right
because it was everywhere cannabis was
everywhere right hallucinogens too i
mean you can't find a single culture

(01:20:40):
that didn't at some point cherish
hallucinogens as a cornerstone to their
culture i mean in brazil they have
ayahuasca churches
so places you can go
to trip
just so it's safe
right because that was a part of their
culture that was a shamanic shamanic
part of their culture and when the
government tried to make it illegal

(01:21:00):
people rioted they're like no
you can't take this away from us this is
this is part of who we are
and we didn't do that here in north
america we just went what uh marijuana
yeah okay make that illegal right and
it's it's just
because our culture wasn't based on
shamanism our our eurocentric culture

(01:21:20):
here in north america wasn't in any way
based on spirituality outside of
christianity which i'm pretty certain
the founding fathers recognized was
toxic that's why they wanted separation
between church and state right
yeah
yeah you'd think
how is uh what has have you done
ayahuasca
no no i would like to but i have done um

(01:21:44):
i've done um
i guess
something similar so uh psilocybin
mushrooms
don't have quite the same effect because
they get absorbed by the body far too
easily so you can actually change how
your your body absorbs psilocybin
mushrooms by um using a seed called
syrian root uh it's actually it's used
for making red dyes in the middle east

(01:22:05):
but so if you take some of the seed you
grind it up and you pour it in some
water and you mix it up and you drink it
first what it does is it creates an
enzyme in your stomach which changes how
your stomach breaks down the psilocybin
mushrooms it actually makes it more
potent and it lasts for longer so that
i've done so i've done like a 20-hour
mushroom trip that was about as intense
as i could possibly imagine i've done
peyote i've done a couple of other

(01:22:27):
things as well but i've never managed to
get my hands on the ayahuasca root
um
yeah i've i've heard i've been doing a
lot of scene probably matched a lot of
psychedelic
research and whatnot and just into
yeah all the different kinds the last
month or so but yeah ayahuasca sounded

(01:22:47):
it sounds like it's kind of similar to
dmt and its effect yes
but maybe last longer
it lasts longer it lasts longer and and
and
it's potent as [ __ ] as has been what's
been described to me um i'll admit the
the length of the trip no longer appeals
to me anymore just because i've spent so

(01:23:08):
long in that state um if you want a deep
dive if you want to deep dive hard i
would recommend looking for salvia
divinorum
okay
that'll

(01:23:28):
we talked about this previously so
salvia divinorum is a member of the mint
family it is not actually a drug um you
can usually find it at hemp at hemp
stores and they'll sell it as a natural
incense
it comes in two in two doses 10 times
and 20 times basically based on on how
close to the plant the leaf has been cut

(01:23:50):
um the 10 times strength is more than
enough the 20 times strength is
um
but basically just just pack a bowl a
little bowl and and make sure you're not
standing
and um as soon as you exhale
bye
that's pretty much it and and it'll feel

(01:24:12):
like the most intense trip that you've
had
and it'll go on forever
and then you'll come back and it'll be
three minutes have passed
how like how does that happen where it
feels
like it's been that long and it's
because there is no time three minutes
time doesn't exist right like that's
that's the thing so when we're in that

(01:24:32):
advanced state all of a sudden
five minutes lasts a hundred years
right like that's that's how it goes is
that the closer to the present we become
the longer it seems to last
somebody was asking that on somebody
else's video like how do i how do i stop
time from going to so quickly it's like
stop keeping track of it
you know that's that's why i don't wear

(01:24:53):
as time shackle i don't i don't wear a
watch i actually forced myself to stop
wearing a watch after i started waking
up because i realized how much of my
life was spent looking at the time
yeah i found actually it's funny bring
that up because i found
i feel like
since maybe in the last few months like

(01:25:13):
things do some days do
feel a little slower certainly when i've
taken mushrooms like you know it'll be
an hour has passed and it was like hold
like that's it like it's only been or
it's only been 40 minutes feels like
three hours
but
i found myself yesterday like i wasn't
really doing much i was writing to my
book just like went on a couple walks

(01:25:35):
and and i found myself sitting here and
like
i checked the time and i caught myself
and i was like
why did i check the time like it doesn't
matter
what like when it starts to get dark out
i'll know that it's you know getting
close to time to go to bed it's bright
out right now like
i have no i don't need there's nothing
for me to do for the rest of the day

(01:25:55):
that i need to do
or like seemingly need to do or anywhere
to be or meetings to go to like i don't
have anything until i get tired and want
to go to bed and i caught myself like
checking and it's so funny like that hit
me yesterday was the first time i kind
of realized like
i don't actually
need

(01:26:16):
to know what time it is right now i
don't at all and it's made up anyway and
like it's not helpful but it was just
like some subconscious
part of me wanted to know like
you know
what time just to know what am i in the
process yeah yeah
yeah it's like
i'm here

(01:26:36):
you know i wonder about that because i
mean so we know time is relative right
we know we know that our experience of
time is relative to our our speed
according to speed of light right so
closer to the speed of light
you get
the the more your your experience of
time changes right
so
i find that really interesting because
what we're always talking about speed of

(01:26:57):
light in terms of physicality we're
always talking about uh physical speed
but we never talk about awareness
right because awareness obviously has
a speed
it obviously has some kind of
movement right even if it's not in space
and time
so i just wonder
how our
our level level of clarity or our

(01:27:19):
um
lack of inhibiting our awareness
changes our our experience of time as
well almost like once we remove
the stopper there's all of a sudden time
just suddenly happen always in the here
and now like is it always just jesus
this moment feels like forever because
that is the only difference between

(01:27:40):
feeling eternal
and feeling like a mortal
it's your perception of time
right like that that's that's very much
it like
there is no time
the moment that we are in right now is
the only moment that we'll ever be
right and we're watching you change
right that's all we're doing is
witnessing us as the moment changing but

(01:28:03):
it's still the same goddamn moment which
means that you know if you remove our
idea of ourselves as separate if you
remove our idea of ourself at all
then we are just
the moment being aware of itself
and
that is eternity
that's it right and so it's just the
deeper you think out of the narrative of

(01:28:24):
yourself or time or space or the world
or humanity that's that's how you get
closer and closer to recognizing
you've always been
yeah
yeah oh man yeah i [ __ ] love this
stuff
just like talking about it so like with
the salvia

(01:28:44):
devanorum though like
it's still
so how can we then
perceive like time doesn't exist but
then
it's still
feel like there's a feeling of time that
just feels
longer
kind of right yeah well it's not that it

(01:29:05):
feels longer so much as it doesn't feel
like it's wasting away
like it doesn't feel like it's leaving
like there's there's no lack of time
it's not like time is passing
it's just it it's just what it is right
and that's the feeling we get the rest
of the time is like like time is passing
like we're losing time right and it's
like you can't you are tired like you

(01:29:25):
are the experience of time
yeah
yeah
i will i'll have to wait so can i do you
think i can get that and like
any random shop yeah try and try your
hemp shops i don't know how many you
have uh in new york but uh
shouldn't be too hard i'm sure
somebody's gotta have it

(01:29:46):
how uh
how do they sell something like that
because it's not a drug
right there's nothing in it that's on
the illicit drugs
list it's it's a member of the mint
family it's just happens to be the only
member of the mint family that has a
compound called salvinorin a
and salvadoran a
immediately activates all of your

(01:30:06):
brain's opiate receptors at the same
time
so all of the receptors that are made to
interact with all of the world's lovely
opiates
kick on all at the same time
and so it's it's the deepest and most
amazing thing you're ever going to have
like
everything's going to disappear

(01:30:27):
is there anything i should be aware of
if i like want to try this
this week at some point um start small
start small take your time
right don't don't do what i did because
i i'm an idiot um
like i i just like yeah i decided to go
straight for the 20 times i was like all
right let's get the strongest dose and i

(01:30:48):
had like this massive bowl and i just
packed it and uh
yeah and then
that's gone
um
but
the place you go
is very close to dreaming
but you are lucid you are lucid
and uh and when you come out of it

(01:31:09):
you'll see what i mean you're going to
want to talk about it after you do it be
crazy because it's uh
it's crazy how quickly it reminds you
that this is not what it looks like
it's good like i my trip was uh well the
one of them was incredible in that
i started in my living room
i was sitting in a chair

(01:31:29):
and then i exhaled
and then it started and my living room
disappeared
and i found myself back in medieval
england staring at a torch that was
being lit by somebody walking through
the street
lighting torches and then i was
somewhere else i was in a village
somewhere and then i was somewhere else
on a ship and then i was somewhere else

(01:31:50):
and i was a different person in a
different race on a different planet
like i just kept going from one scene to
the other
always me but always in different forms
and different in different realities and
different experiences and then as that
happened it's like my mind's eye kind of
zoomed out so i could see all of these
lives that i was experiencing at the
same time so it looked like one giant

(01:32:10):
movie reel that was twisting and turning
because of course they're all connected
over what we call time and space
and so i could see all of creation
moving
as as this giant what looked like um an
unlimited dna strand let's put it that
way and then
like a loud booming voice
you're not supposed to be here yet

(01:32:31):
and then i woke up
and i started coming i was back in my
room right and my buddy who was sitting
on the chair across from me had gone at
the same time which i don't recommend if
you if you go with a friend go
separately uh okay
but so i started trying to stand up out
of my chair and every time i stood up my
chair i i was watching my buddy being
pulled back into the wall and he'd start

(01:32:53):
screaming
right like i was pulling myself out of
being one with reality and it was
pulling him back into it and so i just
like settled i just relax and stay there
i'm like i don't wanna don't wanna kill
my buddy
so then i started relaxing and all of a
sudden the sound started making sense
again
the room started looking like my room

(01:33:14):
again and i didn't know it was my room
but i knew it was a room and so i
started walking around my buddy was
still doing his thing and i was saying
this before i started going to all the
objects in my apartment which i didn't
recognize i didn't recognize the
apartment or any of the things that i
owned because they weren't mine
and i started giving them a story
like oh i picked that up at a yard sale

(01:33:36):
and uh this was given to me by someone i
work with and i was just making it up to
make myself feel more certain about my
experience
being back and then after about five
minutes i realized that all the stories
i was making up
were actually my life that's actually
how i had gotten those cups that's
actually how i had gotten that thing and
at the time it didn't dawn on me at all

(01:33:56):
so that just tripped me right out like
am i writing this in real time what is
happening right
it was it was a hell of an experience
man for sure um i went a few times after
that and um yeah
it's all deeply symbolic and as long as
you don't panic you'll be fine but
five minutes five minutes and you're out

(01:34:17):
yeah how like how do you think that it
does
that like
ah it's so
it's like how you can
i guess it just comes back to
the not identifying with
this
human
form it just i don't know it feels like

(01:34:38):
it gets clearer and clearer
with things like that so
so it opens up all the opiate receptors
but like why do you think it takes you
through
like seemingly through time and space
like that well because i mean
and i've often thought about this i mean
we call them drugs natural drugs i mean

(01:34:58):
marijuana or celican or peyote or any of
those but
they're all just symbolic i mean
mushrooms especially right like
mushrooms literally grow out of
what keeps this planet alive by celium
they grow in darkness and [ __ ] right and
yet despite all of that regardless of
their simplicity and their complexity

(01:35:19):
underneath the ground
they represent
a mentality and everybody who eats
psilocybin mushrooms will tell you the
same thing they talk to you not they
talk to you but necessarily as you end
up in a state of mind that they are very
much representative of you almost feel
like a mushroom right like when you're
on there you always feel like you've
grown out of darkness and suddenly have

(01:35:41):
something to show for it right so there
is that in peyote and everything else in
terms of psychedelics are the same so
because we are the awareness of reality
because there is no disconnect
whatsoever
i think in terms of of
organic drugs we're only ever eating
symbolism we're only ever using
symbolism to allow ourselves to go into
a state of mind that we always always

(01:36:02):
have access to anyway but that we may
have forgotten how to how to get to and
so we have these symbols
kind of like in a game right where it's
like you have this icon you're like ha
ha the fire flower
right like that that gives me fireballs
and that that's kind of what they are
it's like oh i've forgotten how to get
to that level
here's this tool that's going to remind
me where that is now is that necessary

(01:36:24):
no because as i was mentioning before
dreaming
is far trippier than salvia will ever be
yeah
far trippier
and the more you practice dreaming that
the more the more so that's the case
right because in dreams you can do the
exact same thing you can go anywhere as
anyone

(01:36:45):
yeah and
it almost makes you wonder like
what really is the difference between
that and and this
reality besides maybe
being able to switch in and out of
you know forms and and whatnot but
i enjoy being locked as as ray i enjoy

(01:37:06):
being in this body and the consistency
that goes with this story right because
in dreams there's no consistency so as
much as you could have the experience of
flying as a dragon you're not going to
have the experience of waking up the
next morning and being hungry as that
dragon which might be educational it
might be actually quite fun right so
whereas in this i get to be 12 year old

(01:37:28):
rey and then 20 year old ray 40 year old
ray right and then go through all these
different variations of rey i really
enjoyed the consistency what's nice is
that i actually get breaks in between to
go and experience other [ __ ] when i'm
dreaming or or otherwise using symbolism
my imagination is so much fun this is
why i love imagination imagination is
one of our our biggest tools that we

(01:37:50):
just don't take seriously enough like
a good author
sees the world that they're writing
about
right like they experience it as their
writing
that's amazing and then and you can tell
when you're reading it because you can
see it like when i was reading lord of
the rings i could see that clearly and
then when the movies came out 20 years
later i was like yes that's exactly what

(01:38:11):
i saw or very close right and that's
that's amazing if you think about it
because it's not like they give you all
the details
but your brain creates the image well
from where well from somewhere that
you've seen as an awareness
um
yeah damn
life is amazing

(01:38:32):
it's amazing like
i i always i always say to my daughter
uncertainty
makes life
epic it's just it makes
everything
an adventure
whereas thinking you know who you are
what you are what the world is where
it's all going
that just drags you down like it just

(01:38:52):
it makes you live a story that you you
see as being most probable but that
doesn't necessarily mean it is
right like we were talking to eric last
week and and you can see
how
when you look at the way the world is
going when you look at
the politics of today and you look at
the governments of today and our our
lack of environmental policies or our

(01:39:13):
lack of of uh
integrity when it comes to following
through with our political promises
things like that
it can be very difficult to look at the
world and not feel like it's it's a
dumpster fire and that everything's
going to [ __ ] right it can be very
difficult to look at at our future and
not
go
i don't know if this is going to last i
think we're all going to die right it'd

(01:39:34):
be very difficult because
we're looking at superficial aspects
and assuming we know the story and
that's always very tempting especially
when
when
it's um
we're talking about our lives
but
without clarity we don't know what's
happening and to convince ourselves we
do and panic as a response does nothing

(01:39:55):
and especially in this system i mean the
fact is that if there's anything this
system wants us to do it's panic because
they know how to deal with that
right
it's it's the critical thinking the calm
discussion that the system doesn't know
how to deal with it and and that's
that's what we need to have but in order
to do that we need to come to terms with
the fact that
we don't know

(01:40:16):
we don't know like i thought it was
interesting so there was this uh this
poll the other day uh this is on i think
the late show with colbert but the poll
was um
climate change
do you think humans are responsible for
climate change yes or no
and then and and so he went on and
saying like oh all these people don't
believe in climate change it's like

(01:40:36):
that's not what you asked though
you didn't actually ask if they believed
in climate change
what the question was was should we feel
guilty about it
are we to blame
that was the question
right are humans to blame for climate
change so half the people might have
went no
realizing there's no division
right half of the people could they

(01:40:57):
could have said no realizing that in
fact methane has been just
falling out of the ocean for the last
decade from russia and siberia just
because of the permafrost melting or the
volcanoes that are continuously being
more active or any of the things and
methane is way worse than carbon dioxide
in terms of being a grain of greenhouse
gas so there is a natural slow that's
happening
but that's not what our argument is

(01:41:19):
our argument is
are we to blame
so it's more identity it's more ego and
then the entire argument is around that
rather than is climate change happening
and i think if we just asked that you'd
have 90 of the people going well yeah
but we don't ask that we say
are you to blame for climate change

(01:41:39):
and we wonder why half of them say no
yeah
because then
well then in that sense
like
what is there
do you think a lot of people answer
that we are to blame because then we
feel like there's something we can do
about it
or
i think that part of it is um

(01:42:01):
we like to blame ourselves for things i
think that's part of it i think a part
of it is also a willing a willing
blindness right like
yeah humans are contributing to climate
change now what do we mean by humans do
we mean you
do we mean me or do we mean the system
that is dependent on items that quickly
degrade can't be can't be reused and

(01:42:24):
then don't get recycled are we talking
about a system that's dependent on
consistent production without any
consideration whatsoever for reusability
are we talking about you and me are we
talking about our broken system
because it's the broken system
that's the problem in terms of climate
change it's not you and me right we're
not out there

(01:42:44):
burning aerosol cans you know we're not
out there if we're not out there doing
all this right but we're the ones
responsible for recycling even though
we're not the ones creating the things
that need to be recycled and so i i
think that
a part of it is that we don't want to
face the fact that in order to stop
creating this problem we have to change
business as usual

(01:43:06):
we just do
right because plastic isn't even just
about the plastic that we're leaving
behind but the amount of water that's
used to to create that plastic and
recycle that plastic that's all water
that that
you know we need
so so to be wasting it constantly in the
pursuit of more what you ever watched
the lorax the movie

(01:43:27):
no i haven't
do
definitely now that you're awake
do
okay
because
there's this great line where because
they're they're selling air to people at
this point and and one of the marketers
he's like we found that if we put put
something in a bottle and put a label on
that bottle people will buy it
and that's it it's not even whether or

(01:43:48):
not there's anything of value in the
bottle and that's the mentality right if
we can just fool them that there's
something of value in there they'll buy
it and that's what drives our economy
that's what drive that's that's the
whole priority of humanity right it's
like it doesn't matter how you become
rich and famous just become rich and
famous right and everybody else will
suffer as a result and and

(01:44:10):
that mentality is something that that we
will eventually grow out of if if we can
realize that
it's not about us like it's it's not
about us individually it doesn't matter
how you feel what matters is whether or
not you're killing your environment
that's it
we're not gonna have much of a choice
though we're gonna have to deal with
this as the water continues to rise and

(01:44:30):
the storms continue to get you know
nastier there's there's no choice i mean
there are there are tornadoes that are
happening in areas of the world where
tornadoes shouldn't happen um or never
did happen and and largely it's because
we clarity we clear-cut everything like
we i've seen here in canada whole
mountainsides just getting mowed mowed

(01:44:50):
down like for for you know rock or or
for lumber or anything like but it's a
mountain it was a mountain and now it's
a flat piece of land it's like well yeah
i can't imagine why you have tornadoes
you know everything's flat right
and that's it or or the fact the lack of
trees or the lack of living soil like
that's another big deal that we don't

(01:45:12):
really talk about is the fact that even
our agriculture is completely skewed
we don't allow soil to be alive anymore
we just use it until it's dead dirt
whereas soil should be alive it should
have microbial growth there should
actually be
things living in dirt that keep the
plants healthy and alive and trap carbon

(01:45:32):
out of the out of the air and put it in
the soil but our agricultural um dynamic
doesn't consider that at all it's just
you know plow the field plant the corn
crop plow the field plant the corn and
so whereas like 20 30 years ago if you
were on well let's say 50 years ago if
you went to a farm and they had just
plowed the soil you would see birds
coming out of all over the place just to

(01:45:52):
get all the worms and [ __ ] that was in
the ground right when they plowed it
now if you go to a farm that's been
farmed for 20 years and they plowed the
soil there's no birds they don't show up
because there's nothing alive in the
ground
there's no more worms there's no more
anything right it's just soil and
pesticides and herbicides and roundup
ready and that then that's pretty much
it

(01:46:13):
and and so we're
we have to recognize that a good portion
of our climate problem is also
the fact that we don't take care of the
ground we don't care take care of the
soil at all
yeah so if you know this
idea that we you know we are the world
and
you and i
you know we change
ourselves

(01:46:34):
like
how does that
change
that
system if everyone
well i guess
if everyone changes themselves
but you know if you if we're not like we
can't go around
changing
the world outside of ourselves

(01:46:55):
like how
do those
things
change slightly little ripples at a time
right it's kind of like um
the rise of organic vegetables
right like
at one point
you couldn't buy organic vegetables
straight up organic vegetables in a
grocery store because there was really

(01:47:15):
no need to offer them everybody was
happy with the way things were going
then you had more and more people
looking into themselves realizing their
health was suffering as a result of [ __ ]
food and they started growing their own
vegetables and then over you know a
couple of decades of more and more of
those people through personal life
choices changing how they ate and what
they bought the market had to respond
now all of a sudden you see organic

(01:47:36):
vegetables being offered in grocery
stores
but it was the result of individual
changes
over time accumulating until the system
had to adapt to meet that demand
right and so
although we don't see it
our little changes in our own life
actually does become cumulative as it
starts to merge with other people's

(01:47:57):
changes in their life i mean it's the
reason why here in british columbia we
have electric car charging stations all
over the province
right it's because enough people decided
i'm going to get an electric car
so the province had to do something
about it like they had to to put the
infrastructure there for those people
but it came about through their
individual choices which became a loud

(01:48:19):
enough crowd that the rest of the
audience had to start listening
and that's that's what we're doing here
even in this conversation like you and i
may not be advocating for a lack of
pollution or for people to recycle but
we are advocating for a state of mind
that's accountable we're advocating for
clarity we're advocating we're
advocating for you know being able to

(01:48:40):
look at your life afresh and decide what
it is you need and what it is you're
just doing out of habit
all of those things
are going to change how people live even
in the slightest way and though we may
not see it within the next year
five ten years from now all of those
cumulative changes are going to have a
measurable impact and we're not going to

(01:49:00):
see where it all came from because
there's so many things happening that
are coming together but we're seeing it
we're seeing it right now like
give me an example um a couple that i
say about 10 years ago i think the the
the vote here in canada was less than
half the population voted and i think
was similar in the states there for a
while um to me

(01:49:20):
that's a vote
that's people voting for a system they
have no no faith in like that that's it
that's a vote of non-confidence if
you're not voting you are saying you're
not confident in the system to me that's
a vote
and if you were to look at all of all
the people who have just stopped voting
it's becoming pretty clear that more and
more of us think this system's broken

(01:49:41):
you know and as a result we're finding
other ways we're finding ways to work
with our community we're finding ways to
connect with other people we're finding
ways to to get off the grid van life
that's that's something that's spreading
like mad right now right people just
abandoning their homes abandoning their
jobs just finding other ways to survive
and that's going to change the system
it's already changing the system why do

(01:50:02):
you think you know the um economists are
so pissed off like get back to work why
aren't you coming back to your jobs it's
like for what
for what the same lack of stability i
have now but with a lot less enjoyment
yeah
yeah
we're changing we're changing yeah but

(01:50:23):
with that goes
growing pains right and and some period
of adjustment
and we are we're in that but
the rise of cryptocurrency and
everything else like this is all part of
this of these growing changes and i'm
very curious to see
what happens in the next five years
alone because

(01:50:44):
i don't know
if the system as we see it right now can
be sustained i really don't because
there's
there's too much pressure on a system
that's not built on a solid foundation
the the system of government can't adapt
quickly enough to the technology that
humanity is creating nor the change of
mind that humanity is adopting um we

(01:51:05):
just can't and we try to build giant
giant structures to maintain things
across the globe but all that does is
leave more and more people feeling left
out and marginalized because they don't
match that giant structure so
either we're going to do this through
revolution and revolt and consequence in
terms of us just not being accountable
for the things that we're creating or

(01:51:27):
we're going to do this in a measured way
where there's enough of us to suddenly
go
okay we need to have this conversation
we need to just address the fact
that this is broken the way it's working
and as soon as we can do that then we
can actually start to change it and
figure out what that means but there's
too many people with a vested interest
in the way things are right now we can't

(01:51:48):
expect the system to change itself we
have to change ourselves
yeah
yeah
make sense we shall see i guess yeah
well that's it we shall see and as we go
week by week on our podcast here we will
talk about more and more ways that that
things are changing because they are
they they really are and i say that that

(01:52:09):
that's the benefit of being 42. like i i
was thinking about it the other night
and it's like i really enjoy being in my
40s
because i have so much more
that i look back at in terms of my own
experience in terms of how i've seen the
world change and in terms of what i've
understood about our system of
government and our commercial code and
everything else and
yeah there are there are significant

(01:52:31):
changes there there are things that are
happening that the system doesn't know
how to how to deal with and i think by
far one of my favorites is
the uh the lack of christianity so
people more and more people are leaving
the church
and the the rise of cryptocurrency
because
more and more humans have just decided
well this is all a shell game anyway

(01:52:51):
we might as well play this game of value
on our own terms we don't need to have
other people creating the value for us
i think that's fantastic because in all
honesty
that
that system of governance through the
fiat currency and the world banking
is is
probably the biggest thing that keeps us
in line

(01:53:12):
right it's you need to sell your life
for an hourly wage
and now it's like actually just so you
know you get involved with the community
you can just you know talk to the people
in that community help grow the
technology get behind something and five
years from now you may not have to work
that's that's changing a lot of a lot of
things for people because that wasn't
something that's ever been an option for

(01:53:33):
the last 100 years the most you could
hope for was to work into your 60s and
then retire
yeah
i'm glad things are changing
yeah
yeah
likewise for sure
this has been a great episode we've
passed an hour and a half again
yeah i feel like what time is it even

(01:53:55):
yeah
almost at the two hour mark indeed
so we will wrap up episode six um this
has been a good one we've been we've
been talking more about
just transitioning from
the devotion to what we want to see to
the recognition of what is
and how that changes everything and i
think that's that's really the entire
point of our podcast if it comes down to

(01:54:16):
it because
we just want
people to recognize that they can look
at what is that it doesn't it doesn't
matter how they feel about it and the
sooner they get past how they feel about
it the sooner they'll they'll be able to
do something with it
certainly yeah exciting exciting times
absolutely well thank you everyone for
joining us um just so you know we have

(01:54:38):
another workshop coming up on november
16th it's going to be another four-week
workshop where we will be discussing
manifestation and i know that that
that's a topic that uh that's an endless
rabbit hole and i'm super excited to get
into it because it's something i've
thought about for a very long time i've
been involved with numerous different
aspects of the manifestation um industry

(01:54:59):
as it's grown from from the law of
attraction the secret and onward from
there so i i know i have a lot to talk
about and i know andrew's gonna have a
lot to ask and a lot to to toss in there
as well because obviously andrew is
walking manifestation he has been doing
in his daily life whether he recognizes
it or not
yeah certainly i'm i'm very excited
because it's something that it's almost

(01:55:21):
just the idea of manifesting all your
always is
new to me like the recognition of that
and you know getting caught up and you
know actively manifesting or how you
know you think that you're doing it
whether you think you're doing it if
you're
doing anything at all that's different
from what is but

(01:55:43):
yeah excited for it as well and i think
it'll be a really awesome workshop
absolutely so uh keep an eye out on our
social media um
for announcements of the workshop coming
up of course you'll find the link in our
bio within the next day or so this is
going to be a lot of fun and we'll see
you next week thanks for joining us
everyone

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