S.2 Ep.3: Freedom from our Narrative

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
hello and welcome to season two episode three of dualistic unity i am playing the part of
andrew today i'm still playing the part of ray i haven't switched it to carl as yet
because admittedly after 42 years of pretending to be rey i'm a little attached to the guy fair
enough maybe maybe season three we can toss in carl and and jimmy or something i'll be jimmy

(00:23):
that'd be great just mess up our audience and then again if they've made it to season three
they would be probably on board yep that makes perfect sense we are now listening to jimmy
yeah i don't i don't think they'd be too surprised by that one bit yeah so it's been a couple weeks
since uh since we touched base we took a week off last week just to kind of take a break contemplate

(00:46):
a lot of the changes that we've been going through here on the show because admittedly on the show we
started out this just being a conversation that's all it was meant to be and then as the show has
progressed we've discovered some insights within ourselves and we've discovered some
some ambitions to go in different directions and kind of spread the conversation and encourage
the this discussion uh in the world but of course with ambition sometimes there's that

(01:09):
note of seriousness and so we started to get a little bit too caught up in in the
end result of what we were trying to do rather than just enjoying the ride and so we took a week
off we kind of just you know separated did our own thing went out lived in the world reminded
ourselves what this is really all about because as much as this conversation is fun the conversation
is ultimately supposed to better enable us to enjoy our lives from moment to moment right so

(01:34):
that's where we've been and so now we're back with episode three of season two we're feeling
refreshed we've got some new ideas i've been reading and researching all kinds of fun stuff
like um epi phenomenology epi phenomenology i'm going to try that again which is just mind-blowing
when you think about the implications and what it means about the intelligence that you and i are

(01:54):
always talking about just lying under the surface of our egotistical mind so we'll get a bit more
into that today now i mean these conversations are one of my favorite things to do so i'm happy
to be back certainly um so ray and i were actually on a live on tick tock yesterday and something i
wanted to touch on today because it just hit home so hard for me was this idea that ray brought up

(02:19):
that there are no opposites essentially is the the crux of it and that everything is
on a spectrum so whether it's hot and cold you know hot and cold are not opposites they're just
how we perceive temperature across a spectrum so you know from i'm in the u.s so i use fahrenheit

(02:40):
you know from zero degrees fahrenheit to 100 degrees fahrenheit we would say that one end
is cold one end is hot but it's all on the same continuous spectrum like they are connected
in that way sort of like how the universe is completely connected and it all comes down to
our conceptual perceptions of division so if you equate it to something like temperature

(03:05):
or even light and dark you know completely light completely dark you know there's things in between
dawn and dusk you know a little bit a little bit darker out a little bit lighter out it's all
a part of the same exact spectrum and how we make that divide is completely conceptual
you know from from cold to hot you know where where does it stop typically you know in the

(03:29):
u.s it's like it's it's cold until it's you know 40 or 50 degrees but even then it's like
when you're going from summer to winter 40 degrees seems incredibly cold when you're coming from
winter into the summer 40 agrees growing up in minnesota we would all be in shorts out at recess
when it hit 40 45 degrees in the spring so it's just very interesting and it's so applicable to

(03:55):
us experiencing this illusion of duality in the universe that's all spectrum 2. that is
all on the same fluid spectrum and any division is simply conceptual absolutely it's funny i i've
recently discovered the non-duality subreddit and i was in there as i was talking about this

(04:15):
and somebody was asking like is it possible to experience an infinite ego in other words can i
just know i'm everything and my response was well as long as there's an eye you're not everything
there's a division immediately there's a perceived there's a perception or a perception of division
but that division is not really there it's like well what would you call it then and well it's

(04:38):
just what is right but it's that spectrum again right like we conceptually separate ourselves from
what is right despite the fact that we're part of what is like there's no separation at all but
we tend to perceive it as what is perceiving itself and then what is being perceived by
itself and we just divide that between me and you or me in reality but it's a spectrum we're both

(05:03):
we're both connected there's no division it's just that my experience requires me to identify
as separate right and same with like hot and cold like how do we know it's cold well we
know it's cold because the most abundant um natural resource on the planet turns solid
that's what we've defined there's freezing point that's it right and then after that it's like

(05:28):
well what happens to liquid when it's higher oh it turns to gas but it's still the liquid
like nothing's actually changed it's still just a spectrum of change right it's still the same thing
in different forms and that's that's life is a in a nutshell but yeah we always conceptually divide
things because it's easier to do i mean it makes a lot of sense and when you see a blue or blue

(05:50):
card and a green card you go well that's a blue card that's a green card and you're
able to differentiate them or or at least you're able to discern the difference and
change your experience according to how you discern that difference but difference
isn't the same as division and we tend to miss we tend to misinterpret that right we
go well they look different therefore they are different it's like that's not the case right

(06:11):
and that's that's the whole thing it's just seeing past what are ultimately useful tools
yeah yeah it's like comparing you know when i talk to some of my friends
trying to explain to them that like division is conceptual like talking about difference versus
divided you know my finger looks a lot different than my kneecap they are different but they are

(06:36):
not divided they're still all andrew so i was trying to go through this analogy with my friend
and i was on a little bit of mushrooms and they were like drinking alcohol and it was like this
funny mix where we were pregaming and i had been tripping earlier in the day and i was like yeah
i'll come out whatever but i'm not gonna drink i'm probably just gonna you know could use some
water and i was saying how you know we are the same thing and just because you you know you

(07:03):
feel something and i don't doesn't mean that we are separate it means we are different but not
separate and i really like that because i've never really used different versus divided like that and
so i tried to explain it like you know say for example that you are my toe you are andrew's toe
and i am andrew's finger they're all andrew just like we are all the universe but they're different

(07:29):
so if i stub my toe does that mean that my finger is not me because it cannot feel that stubbed toe
no it just can't feel it because they're different they're in different locations but they're not
separate they're still all andrew and my friend is like getting caught up and he's like why do
i have to be the toe and i'm like uh dude you're missing the forest and the trees here man i'm like

(07:51):
come on do you get that though right and he's like yeah but like we're still separate because like
i'm here and you're not i was like yeah like there is that but using this analogy you see like just
because you can feel something or you you know hear certain thoughts that you have identified
with it doesn't mean that they are your thoughts you are just identifying with them they're just

(08:15):
sounds like if we both heard another third voice across the room and all of a sudden both of us
started identifying with that voice being us then it would feel like it was both of our
voices it's not that it's your voice it's just a voice that you have identified with if that makes
sense like that's kind of the distinction i try and make with people when they say like you know

(08:38):
why can i hear my thoughts and you can't hear my thoughts and like the thing isn't that it's
your thoughts and not my thoughts it's that you have identified with those noises that you hear
and it's not there is nothing inherently yours about them yeah exactly we tend to get caught up
in the idea that that because sound has to travel that it implies there's a division between the two

(09:02):
of us it's kind of like light right like light travels but it doesn't travel through nothing
right like it actually has to travel through something for it to go right and so the same is
true with sound so we look at sound waves hitting our eardrum and we're like ah it's it's crossed
that space to reach me but across the space the space through a medium that always exists and is

(09:25):
always connecting us right so there's no division right otherwise you wouldn't be able to experience
those things you wouldn't have connection to anything like sound or light or any other kind
of experience unless it was through the medium of reality so everything's connected intricately it's
the it's the perception that catches us right the perception of space is probably one of the

(09:46):
hardest ones to get over it's like you're over there it's like right and there's air between us
that doesn't that's not disconnected from us there's air in my body right like we're all just
one and the same just with slightly different you know characteristics and and perceptual
differences that's pretty much it right it's just it's so interesting to watch how we get caught

(10:10):
up in the divisions simply because we define ourselves with them that's it we wouldn't care
ultimately like how we are divided wouldn't make a difference if it wasn't a measure of our own value
right and this is where racism tends to get to come in and it's funny i ran across a tick
tock creator the other day and i was really impressed with the point that he was making

(10:32):
which was that racism is is ultimately inaccurate because there's only one right race means species
that's what it means right so we can talk about different cultures we can talk about different
colors we can talk about different expressions of our race but ultimately it's one race
right we just tend to divide it according to the perceptual differences based on how we identify

(10:57):
right which is what we were talking about before about how like earlier europeans didn't identify
as just white people they identified as like italian people or polish people or
french people right and then that became a more generalized you know white culture as time moved
on because we tend to do that we tend to take our divisions and then just kind of generalize them to
make our group bigger and make ourselves feel more acceptable it's just like religion right

(11:22):
yeah it's interesting to the distinction they made before about the perception of division because of
my experience like quote unquote my experience but if you're able to see things as just experience
and you are you know existing within experience all of a sudden there isn't anything personal

(11:43):
to you and that kind of ties into a lot of what we talked about on the manifestation workshop
was the idea that you know there isn't this personal thing to go about like you have
the opportunity to influence experience in general not your experience necessarily but experience

(12:04):
in general here and now and through more clearly seeing that we're just a part of this experience
we are a part of the whole you know we are the whole as a part you know it's more
you're more clearly able to see that manifestation is something that happens right now all the time
it's not something that you get to in the future as this me with my experience like you are

(12:33):
having an impact on experience here and now when you're able to take yourself sort of out of the
picture this fiction of you all of a sudden you're just experiencing right now all the time and you
can kind of do what you want in it and without those perceptions of my experience there isn't
as much past and future because there everything that you think about in the future or regret from

(12:58):
the past or remember from the past comes back to your idea of you you know your perception of me
so when when you take out when you reframe that uh sentence or statement of my experience to just
being experience itself here and now there isn't as much personal aspect as much of a personal

(13:20):
aspect to that and you're just experiencing what is right now all the time that makes a
lot more sense right because it doesn't make any sense to say that you are having an experience
because your experience changes everybody else's experience so we are having an experience

(13:41):
as a single eye it's just that we tend to compartmentalize it and compartmentalize it and
claim ownership right i've often said like we're leaves on the river right and every once in a
while the leaves bump into each other you're like oh my bad you didn't do it right you're just part
of the river like that's just the way the flow is going but we identify with our particular part

(14:02):
and we separate from everything else but it's just experience right i am experiencing and
that's that's the universe if the universe was to have a voice that would be what it would say
right that's it but of course the universe wouldn't say that because the universe wouldn't
use the word i which i've often said to people especially in the non-duality subreddit lately
because there is this this addiction to ownership and control and so

(14:29):
surrendering the eye the idea of our self is kind of threatening but we don't realize that
it's actually how we can get to the experience that most of us want to have how we can feel
inspired enthusiastic and insightful and creative and free and all this other fun stuff because
when we're not thinking about ourselves when we're not distorting the signal as you said

(14:51):
claiming ownership making it about the past and the future and our assumptions and everything else
all of our attention is in the moment where we are so no matter what it is we're doing it's getting
the benefit of all of our attention and all of our potential and that's when we're able to do things
um with greater dexterity with greater ease right we were talking about a murmuration right where

(15:13):
you got all these tiny birds that are doing these snap turns simultaneously and i was saying that
it's amazing if you think about how little they have to be thinking about themselves individually
in order to just feel that and let it happen right whereas you know we tend to go but i don't want to
go that way i want to go that way and you want to go that way so that you're in control and so we
have arguments with each other despite the fact that there is no disconnection right so this is

(15:37):
why i found it really interesting the the entire concept of epi phenomenology and i said that
correctly this time because it kind of goes back to what they were studying in power versus force
in terms of kinesiology so your body regardless of your your egotistical beliefs or your preferences
knows whether something is destructive or constructive that was the entire point of the

(15:59):
research that that they were doing in power versus force that was the entire focus of hawkins life
was that if i ask your body a question and allow your muscles to answer it by either going weak or
staying strong your body will have an answer that that is the same across everybody else
all of our bodies know this and so hawkins for like a decade or more

(16:23):
through tens of thousands of people found a way to repeat this process
and that's how he created his scale of consciousness was by asking the body
okay so anger is higher than love and body go no by going weak and be like okay fine so then they
ask more questions and try and figure out where is anger in this scale and that's how that whole
that whole thing happened but that implies that there is knowledge or at least a level

(16:48):
of intuition or intelligence beneath our thoughts that pre precursors are thoughts that comes first
and what i enjoyed about the epiphenomenology study that i was looking at was that what they
did was they put a button in front of this person and they connected their brain to this sensor
and the sensor was designed to to measure when their brain or when the signal in their brain

(17:11):
decided to push the button when it was going to push the button and they knew this by watching
what the brain did the last time the person pushed the button but the experiment was this
sit there and try to fool it into thinking you're going to push the button convince
yourself you're going to push the button think about pushing the button do whatever you can
to make that buzzer go off and it did not matter what that person thought until they were going to

(17:34):
go and push the button right and then the machine knew before their thought engaged to give them a
reason to push the button so there's an impulse that we are acting on there's an intelligence
that's acting through us before our thought and our ego distorts the signal that's exactly what
hawkins was talking about and it's exactly what they what they were proving in that molds or that

(17:56):
slime mold i was talking about where basically so the slime mold is made up of individual
cells all of which are acting completely selfishly they are doing their best to survive on their own
but when these cells come together and they're all the same they all work exactly the same when
they're on their own when they come together they all start taking on different roles within

(18:19):
the organism that they are combining to make some of them start becoming an immune system some of
them start taking pathogens out and and literally removing themselves from the host in order
to take the poisons with them okay so they're they're altruistic for the point of the whole
right but they're all single cell but all working on their own they just happen to create this this

(18:41):
intelligent life form they even create internal organs as a result of this so it's intelligence
in full swing so they created a map of japan and they put where all the cities in japan are they
put little little bits of oatmeal and the oatmeal was uh basically in conjunction or compared to the

(19:02):
population centers of all those cities so where there was more population there was more oatmeal
and then they put this this mold on this map in this container of this map of japan
well the mold immediately started connecting all the oatmeal and distributing the nutrients
to the rest of the mold and so it did so by building little tube systems from one package a
pocket of oatmeal to the other mycelium also acts like this so what was interesting is by the time

(19:27):
the mold had completely finished covering the map of japan had absorbed all of the nutrients
it created a tube system that was almost identical to the subway system in japan right
except that it was it was better than what the engineers had created and it's because
our intelligence knows what to do when we just let it tackle the problem when we let it function as a

(19:50):
part of the whole as a part of what is it reflects the intelligence of what is which is limitless
i just thought that was fascinating because that's exactly the point our intelligence has
nothing to do with our brain our intelligence is from beneath the cellular level we are literally
the intelligence of of what people will call it energy i'm never a big fan of referring to

(20:14):
to reality as energy because that's just another description right but we are the intelligence of
an infinite and eternal existence it's whole and complete in itself so there isn't a problem that
it can tackle where it doesn't immediately become the solution unless it gets in its own way which
is what our ego does so how do we apply that to our world how do we apply that to say government

(20:39):
yeah certainly that's so fascinating hearing stories like that about just how well that
intelligence can work and how well it can work when we get ourselves out of the way and i've
been thinking more about i know um i think on the last episode and i know i've spoke with you about
that sort of spectrum of flow versus fear that i've been trying to figure out a way to express it

(21:04):
in a video and incorporate it in some way of just understanding that it's not about or it's at least
you know from my point of view not necessarily about self-love or figuring out how to have a
positive perception of yourself because that is just another reinforcement of that identity which

(21:26):
ends up inevitably sort of being that root of your suffering so it's it's more so transcending
that idea of yourself and the idea of flow versus fear flow on the one end being zero identity
and fear on the other end being you know full very solid identity and you fear

(21:48):
because you think you have this identity and you think you have something to lose when it's just a
fiction the entire time but when you're in the state of flow like that sort of state of where
intelligence is just acting through you acting as you without your idea of you coming along with it
you will be able to accomplish and achieve so much more so so thinking about you know having a happy

(22:15):
and fulfilling life it's not necessarily that you need to have self-love or this super positive
perception of yourself and all these things that you have to remember how to be happy it's more so
getting yourself out of the way and almost forgetting that you have an identity because
then all of a sudden you are one with experience there is no my experience or you know my life

(22:40):
it's just you see yourself as life or you see yourself as experienced experiencing everything
here and now and so you're able to utilize all this you know potential energy and possibilities
that this you know human has to offer without the you know perception or idea of yourself coming

(23:02):
along with it to kind of slow it down and create almost like a friction with this flow because
it's almost like you know if you're thinking about leaves flowing on a river it's like when you get
yourself involved or say it's like you know rocks rolling down a hill and there's like a wall on the
side and you bring yourself into it and it's like that rock just starts scraping up against the side

(23:25):
and it's like you know hitting all this friction because you have this idea of you that you're
trying to get in and like control things for me and like i want this or i want that and it's like
you know it's almost like the universe kind of knows and i don't i don't love getting like too
woo-woo into like you know the universe knows what's best for you because you are that deep

(23:49):
down so it's almost like the universe wanting what's best for you is just another sort of
like belief system but it's just about you know getting yourself out of the way and just allowing
things to happen and understanding you are a part of that current and not separate from it and
you know the more you're able to get yourself out of the way the more you're

(24:11):
able to flow with things as they are here and now you know the easier things will be and you
know the more peace and likely joy and happiness and all that good stuff you'll you'll find but
it starts with you know almost forgetting that idea of yourself or at least questioning it and
getting it out of the way to a degree so true and it makes sense if you think about

(24:35):
like when when we're trying to learn something we have to empty our cup and what that means is just
we have to accept we don't know because as long as we're telling ourselves we know as long as we need
to know as long as our value is based on us knowing right we're we're never going to have
the same clarity or enthusiasm for learning that new thing because it's always going to have to go

(24:57):
through that filter of our insecurity right and so just admitting i don't know all of a sudden
our brain just goes oh let me work on that but until we get out of the way and say yeah i don't
know our brain's just like i know trust me i know what do you mean i don't know and it just defends
itself rather than learning anything new it just defends what it already thinks it is right whereas

(25:20):
it's like we accept i don't know everything wow here comes an insight and that's you know what's
funny in coaching i'll often do this because i've had clients say like you're not going to explain
that more to me i'll just drop an insight on them and i'm just like oh i just want you to
think about this for your next session right this is your homework typically that's what i'll do is
i'll give homework in terms of here's an insight dwell on that's right journal it whatever you got

(25:44):
to do and they'll be like well aren't you going to explain that a little bit more i'm like oh
i don't have to because i know as soon as you just allow yourself to let it let it sit and do
its thing you're gonna have an insight as soon as you get yourself out of the way and stop thinking
you need to learn or memorize something your brain's just gonna go oh that's interesting click
and it hits it hits almost every time which is why life coaching is so much easier for me now than it

(26:10):
used to be when i first started because when i first started i was under the impression that i
had to have all the answers i was the one who had to know what to say but it's intelligence at play
all i'm ever doing is nudging people out of their obstacle all i'm ever doing is kind of
reminding them like you know if you get out of the way a bit this shit'll all work itself out

(26:33):
and then i just let that happen now and every time the client comes back i had an insight
right but before when i'd be like here's something i want you to try and practice
never worked it always ended up just being another facet of their ego oh now i'm practicing this i'm
doing better because i do this now this person doesn't do this it's like that's not the case

(26:55):
you know it's not about one thing or the other it's about the awareness
of what you're doing not what you're doing right and so it's always just nudging people towards
again that that state of presence which is always questioning their assumptions as soon as they
don't know what's happening it's like their brain is just overly enthusiastic to try and
figure it out right but as long as it's afraid to be wrong it doesn't want to even try to figure it

(27:20):
out it just it just settles for that cheap high of feeling right as opposed to actually feeling clear
yeah it's like giving that you know when when you used to give them something to do specific
like something to practice it was almost like giving their ego something to to chew on and
strengthen itself through versus just giving them something open-ended and allowing them to like

(27:47):
kind of figure it out for themselves and like a blank slate with you know a template to a
degree as opposed to like fully filled out it's like giving them something to do and work on as
opposed to their ego and then through that you know their ego isn't getting strengthened in
the process in that way and and i think you know coming back to even just questioning

(28:11):
everything that they think that they are i mean that's kind of
it at the end of the day and then when you get to the end of that road if there
necessarily even is an end i don't think it's necessarily a hard and fast end but there gets
to a point where you've questioned yourself almost into oblivion and then the idea of yourself into
oblivion and all of a sudden you know what is left is a lot of what we talk about like right now

(28:37):
that's that's it and that's what so many people in the past have gotten to they just question
everything they think they knew and they think they are and they think they know about themselves
until they get to a point that there really isn't much left and that is where you know that sort of
euphoric aha understanding is like holy [ __ ] i'm not any of these things that

(29:01):
i thought i was i'm not my past i'm not this idea of myself i'm not any of my past experiences and
something along those lines have been another sort of video idea i've been toying with is
doing a situation i thought of like this aspect of it today where it's like a two
two person like i'm playing two different sort of roles and it's like a job interview

(29:22):
and the typical question you get in the job interview is tell me about yourself or
statement you get in a job interview tell me about yourself tell me about who you are and i'm gonna
say that but then right as the other person who's getting interviewed starts talking they're like
but the one the one thing is you can't use your past they'll be like oh oh [ __ ]

(29:43):
uh i'm in this office talking to you right now it's like there you go see you're not your past
and all of that happened right now and figure out some sort of way to express this idea that
you know you aren't your past so whenever someone asks like tell me about yourself or tell me

(30:06):
you know the story of andrew it's just like i just go back to all these things that happened
in my past all these things i accomplished in the past all these things that i've experienced
in the past but as soon as it sort of clicks that you are not your past and the past doesn't exist
and what if you just were existing here and now without a past and you weren't bringing along all

(30:26):
this baggage of you know quote unquote your past then all that's left is your awareness of what is
the awareness that you are aware here and now like that's kind of it there isn't really anything left
to describe like you can describe this body but like i don't know that doesn't i can i can see

(30:46):
that so it's interesting and i want to figure out a way to express that because i think that
was sort of the insight that changed a lot for me was just understanding that i'm not
my past and if i'm not my past and maybe i'm not andrew because all that andrew is is a bundle of
past ideas and experiences but i am not any of that i am just aware right now and that's about

(31:10):
it so so that idea of you doesn't come along with you so just trying to describe yourself without
being able to use the past it kind of like puts your you know mind in a little bit of a pretzel
to the point that you're like oh [ __ ] maybe i'm not all that yeah well and it's going to point out
some serious flaws in in how we govern our system because what you're saying is that in the present

(31:35):
moment you have potential you can do anything if you allow yourself and and separate yourself from
your self-imposed limitations the fact is you can perform you can perform in ways you never expected
you can surprise people as a result but when we go into a job interview they don't want to know who
we are they want to know who we've been right they want that certainty oh you have a track record

(31:56):
of this kind of performance right which it makes sense to some degree but on the other hand you're
also cutting off a lot of people's potential you're cutting off a lot of possibilities i mean
how many people have ended up going to jail for a stupid reason like you know possessing pot for
example they get out of jail they have a criminal record now somebody looks at their history and and
assumes they know their potential because of what came before right and so that's the issue with

(32:23):
our our economy or at least the hiring process is like what happened in the past is somewhat useful
what's happening in front of you is is just as equally if not more so useful like when i
was hiring people i would only give about 10 of of my consideration to their resume

(32:43):
it's like okay you've had this job you've had this job because resumes are always cherry-picked right
i've written enough resumes to know how to make it sound awesome right and and the problem is is
that it's always a superficial image and that's often what happens in a resume you'll see oh this
person worked for goldman sachs or this person worked for such and such a bank oh they must be
good employees that doesn't mean anything and so normally that's how people hire because they think

(33:07):
of themselves the same way i'm the accumulation of my past experiences i am my resume right whereas
when somebody would come in for a job and i was hiring i would sit and shoot the breeze with
them for about 20 minutes and it wasn't about work like maybe 5-10 minutes about the job and
then another 10 minutes just shooting the breeze like what are you up to today after work this has
been a fun interview just to talk to them because that's when the guard comes down that's when all

(33:31):
of a sudden they they allow you to see who they really are when they're not putting on that show
right but to do that you have to stop putting on the show yourself right you have to go okay like
let's take off our pretend hats now i'm not the interviewer and you're not the interviewee we're
just you know being human as it were and it's in that conversation that you see who they are now
um this is something i said about life coaching and my father-in-law found this really funny

(33:55):
one day where i was just like you know i don't give a damn about people's stories and it's like
how do you life coach them then i'm like they're not their stories
they are who they are when when they're in front of me they're not their stories
right it's it's the idea that they are their stories that's making them come to me
right to help them free themselves from that and so when i'm talking to somebody i'm talking

(34:19):
to them now i'm not talking to what they've been through i'm not talking to you know who they think
they are though i'm sure they're bringing some of that with them right but if i buy into that then
i'm not talking to them anymore now i'm talking to my idea of them and that's where my suffering
and conflict comes in that's where my lack of alignment comes in right where all of a sudden

(34:40):
now i'm not even in reality i'm in this fiction in my head that's making me feel better about the
next state or the next movement that i'm about to do on a very logical sequence just so i can
feel like i have control and that's what that's what throws off the murmuration right that's what
makes the start and the starlings go in different directions is because they're all thinking oh this
is the best thing to do and that's that's not flow right so it's the same with relationships

(35:05):
get out of your own way all of a sudden you find a whole new way of communicating with that person
yeah it's it almost sounds so simple and basic like you are not your story like
if i were to say that someone would be like well yeah obviously but then if you actually
think about how often people take their story into every single thing they do and it's funny

(35:29):
you bring up interviews because i give it give a decent amount of interviews for my company also
and i've never really thought about it like that but i like quite frankly a lot of times i will do
just like the phone screen which is the initial step to our interview process
it's not like doesn't have to do necessarily with you know the specifics about you know questions

(35:52):
we have to ask or about experience and so like all skim their resume but like barely pay it
any attention i'll see like you know we need this person because we need someone who has experience
in x platform or whatever it's like i'll check the app but then after that like i kind of just have a
casual conversation with them and see if they can you know hold a conversation and you know

(36:17):
seem interested in this role and it's very much i stay away i've always kind of stayed away from
the resume and even when i do because sometimes i'll be a part of the later interview process as
well and like i'll have specific questions that i have to ask but even then i don't give their
resume very much weight because it's the same thing it's just like you know this highlight

(36:38):
reel that you can kind of like say whatever you want on like obviously it's illegal to lie on a
resume but like you know you can embellish pretty well on there and and so it's it's it's just like
that idea that you know they are not their story they are right now they are what is in front of me
or on the phone or whatever and and understanding from personal perspective that you know you are

(37:03):
not your story it's like the most freeing thing ever because that's what we constantly
tell ourselves and we sort of subconsciously try and solidify and prove that story correct even
when it's negative it's like we'd rather feel comfortable in negativity or certain about you

(37:23):
know the negative aspect of the story that we tell ourselves than being uncertain about that story as
a whole like we would rather be certain that's so crazy that that that's how it goes a lot of times
but it's so true and and the reality is i was talking to someone else recently just about how
um i don't really know you know what all my life will look like at the end of this year and i have

(37:47):
friends who have like a 20-year plan they have like their next five jobs laid out they want to
go to business school get this job become a vp blah blah blah blah it's like [ __ ] man i don't
even know what i want to be doing in three months like i i have no idea but the funny part of that
is that neither do they but they just have this idea that they do and they cling to that as a

(38:10):
feeling of security and certainty that they know what's gonna happen they don't know they
don't even know if they're gonna be alive at the end of this year you know but it's like
everyone clings to that idea so when you're able to relax into uncertainty
and understand that that is the reality of every single moment even the end of today
is completely uncertain you know how i'm going to spend four hours after this podcast episode

(38:35):
is completely uncertain but we like to settle on this idea that we are certain and it's like
we're not so sure you can settle on it there's nothing wrong with settling on it but it's not
reality and it's not the reality of reality like that is uncertainty like hard and fast that is
that is what it is all the time yeah you can you can settle on it like you can go yeah i

(39:01):
feel certain and commit to that but don't complain when life comes around and kicks you in the butt
like when when all of a sudden there's a conflict with your assumption that's on you right and but
it's it's it's that balance again like look at somebody's past record look at where they've been
sure but don't assume the past dictates the future right they may have some influence but people are

(39:24):
are adaptable people can change right but it's again it's like i want to get this idea of that
person it's the idea that i've already decided is going to be what's best for me and the company
and i can't tell you how often i've been in situations where an employer has ignored my advice
went to when hiring somebody hired them based on the resume alone found out that person had huge

(39:47):
mental health problems or had huge relationship problems and they were bringing it all to work
right it's like because you're looking for certain things we do the same thing in relationships we
do the same thing going to the bar trying to meet somebody right we're looking for a certain type of
hair we're looking for a certain type of outfit we're looking for a certain type of demeanor
right we don't know all we're looking at is the packaging that's all we're looking at right and

(40:11):
so we end up in a situation where we convince ourselves that's that's my type right there and
then two years later as we're with that person and we're not getting along we wonder why it's
like because you made all kinds of assumptions just so you could feel certain about your future
and that was it like when my grandfather uh when when before i was born he ran

(40:31):
a shoe repair shop he was a shoemaker in old quebec and when he wanted to hire an assistant
he put a an ad out in the paper and it would be you know experienced welcome not necessary kind
of thing but what he would do is instead of reading the resumes he would just say
come in on this day for for your interview and before anybody would show up he'd take a broom

(40:54):
and he'd throw it on the ground in front of the in front of the door right so it was just lying
across the doorway and as people walked into into the shoe repair shop and they
stepped over it he just said no thank you first person who walked in picked up the broomy hut
right because that's who you are i didn't ask you to do that right and and that's how he determined

(41:16):
who was going to work work best with him and it worked for years he always ended up having good
employees as a result of that and it's because he was judging them based on who they were
showing him they were rather than who they were pretending to be right it's the same is true all
the time like if you're going to meet somebody if you're going to if you're going to entertain the
idea of a relationship with somebody especially allow them to show you who they are don't don't

(41:40):
put your image of who you want them to be on them you will always end up back in frustration
that's interesting with your uh grandfather with the the broom situation it kind of shows
how you know present and aware they are also i'm sure a lot of them you know may have picked
up the broom if they weren't going in for an interview necessarily but they were so focused on

(42:05):
the interview and like doing well in the interview they completely you know it's kind of like putting
those blinders on and all of a sudden like nothing else in reality is relevant whatsoever so it's not
even maybe that they wouldn't have done that if they had just been walking into the store but
it's kind of like killing two birds with one stone as as you can see they're considerate

(42:25):
and they are presently aware here and now and and so they'll notice even though they're coming
in for an interview they notice that there's a broom on the ground and and they're considered
enough to pick it up and then um talking about you know people's assumptions and not getting worked
up when you know your assumptions aren't you know validated or don't come true or whatever i think

(42:50):
that ties in well with the idea of suffering and just the whole idea of suffering being basically
thinking things should be different than they are like thinking reality that you know how
reality should be and when it isn't that way you suffer in whatever form that takes you know if

(43:11):
you know you break your leg or something yeah it's painful yeah it will probably run you some
medical bills or whatever but does complaining about that or you know wallowing in that is that
going to change any of that no it isn't like you can't change that so thinking so it's almost like

(43:32):
realizing that everything is as it is and it couldn't be otherwise like what is right now
is what is it is completely impossible to be different than it is right now so thinking
that it could be and thinking that it should be are completely futile and they will only layer on

(43:53):
additional unnecessary suffering that suffering is not necessary you break your leg you don't have to
suffer like you can experience the pain you can deal with it as you are you can get surgery kind
of roll with it but suffering and wallowing and complaining about it is not a necessary aspect
of that situation it just isn't even labeling it as bad isn't unnecessary it's i'm not saying it's

(44:21):
easy i'm not saying it's super common but it isn't a necessary aspect of that situation and
realizing you know when it comes to good and bad that you can't see the bigger picture so you're
you're putting so much weight and judgment on this sliver of an experience of your entire life where
this could lead you to a situation that's you know the best case scenario for the rest of your life

(44:45):
maybe you know you break your arm and so you can't be as active so you know you've always wanted to
be a singer and you've never taken the time to do it and all of a sudden you know you take singing
lessons you find out you have a really good voice you create an album and it you know you
sell million copies all of a sudden you know you would have never experienced that if it wasn't for
breaking your arm obviously that's an extreme example but it can be applicable to kind of

(45:09):
any situation it's like you don't know what this situation right in front of you is gonna lead to
so you don't know if it's good or bad and judging it and saying that you know a situation like
that is bad is unnecessary only going to add additional suffering and only going to drain
your energy from experiencing you know right now because the reason you think it's bad is because

(45:33):
of your idea of you that's coming along with the situation like it's something that happened
to you know this human but now you're layering on all this identity and it's just
it's just not necessary it's a waste of time like it's not you know the easiest thing ever i'm not
saying that but i think it is worth just being aware of and practicing as you can and the more

(45:56):
you practice it the easier it will get and all of a sudden you know you'll see yourself just
not experiencing as much as much suffering because that's all that it's going to give you when you're
in situations like that and you feel the need to judge every single thing that happens
so true so true but it's uh it's kind of like weaning yourself off an addiction right like we

(46:17):
we reach for the idea of ourself in order to feel less afraid that that's really all it is and and
to feel more valuable and that's what we've been taught to do and so when you stop doing that you
end up in this uncertainty and then you have an opinion about that uncertainty and that opinion
lowers your perceived value and it's because opinions themselves reinforce identity

(46:40):
right the more you delve into your opinions the more you're reinforcing your idea of who you are
and what you like and what's acceptable and what's not and you're just repainting the prison walls
over and over and over again this is something i was saying about uh self-validation
because somebody wrote they're like what's wrong with self-validation it's like nothing except
that it reinforces the prison it reinforces the reason you feel you need to self-validate

(47:03):
the idea of yourself your value cannot be measured it cannot be lowered it cannot be raised
you are what is right so you don't have to try and measure that value but we don't understand how to
just have faith in ourselves because we've always been taught to reach for that addictive control

(47:24):
yeah it is fascinating just how much that idea of you ties into every negative experience you
know even just perceiving it as negative is like just another you know perception but anything that
you know you don't necessarily enjoy feeling is you know validated and sort of strengthened by

(47:44):
all these ways that we reinforce this identity you know whether it's seemingly positive or negative
any sort of validation is as you say re repainting the the prison walls of that and understanding
that you don't need that identity it's it can be tough i think in this society because you

(48:06):
know we are so hyper focused on identity and you know even things like like self-love and a lot
of people comment on my videos like how do i you know love myself more and it's like i i've never
really had a great answer to that because i i've never really understood it it's not something that
i ever necessarily struggled with personally so i never really knew strategies to do it but i'm

(48:32):
seeing more clearly now that it's not you know the strategy to figure out how to love yourself
it's to realize that yourself is an illusion and that you don't need it for this experience
so it's almost like transcending that need for self-love because without the self you don't need

(48:53):
to love anything and this fiction of you because you know as soon as you start loving it you're
giving opportunities to you know hate it at the same time it's like that two sides of the same
coin or that spectrum that we talk about and it's it's just that perception of how you're

(49:13):
in the moment perceiving this fictitious self and in one moment you may you know love that self and
then all of a sudden something comes up and and you hate that self and it's it's the same self so
the issue isn't you know that you're hating that self is that there's any self that you're holding
on to to begin with and it comes back to that identity like every single time yeah i mean even

(49:38):
even if you have a positive self image right you are still addicted to it you're still by holding
on to something you're going to have to defend you're going to have to maintain you're going
to have to build more importantly you're holding on to something that only exists by comparison to
your assumptions that's the problem with identity right is it never it's never what is it's always
based on assumptions it's always based on the mess on the method of comparison and that goes back to

(50:02):
what we're talking about about self-love this is one of the reasons that i don't use the word love
in a lot of my videos this is why you'll never hear me say you know god is love reality is love
enlightenment is love you'll never hear me use that word because there are so many concepts
around love in the same way as gratitude right like we talk we've talked about gratitude not

(50:24):
being an action but something that happens when you have clarity in regards to context
all of a sudden you feel gratitude you're like well this could be different than it is
everything's perfect that's a very different thing than going i am specifically grateful for this
and cherry right and the same is true with love like we have this idea of love like god is love
true god's also hate if you're going to look at it that way like you're looking at two [ __ ] two

(50:48):
spectrums this is that whole christian thing it's like oh god does all the good things the devil
does all the bad things like there's no division at all so the concept of love is different than
the reality of love and so when do we experience love when do we experience the reality of love
not just fixation not just you know infatuation not just possession or or desire but the actual

(51:09):
experience of love to me may is a lot like the experience of empathy or self-acceptance
it's the same thing but it's not the word the word is pointing at the reality and the reality
is the experience that had that you have when you're not thinking about yourself and painting
walls of division so on the one hand yeah god is love but not the love that we think of in terms of

(51:33):
ego it's not the action love it's what remains when we're no longer distorting and causing
divisions right and this is why i avoid the word love i because there's so many misconceptions
about it it becomes about ownership it becomes about preference it becomes about all of these
other things it more importantly it becomes about whether or not you are meeting my perceived needs

(51:55):
which also isn't love there was a great quote by krishnamurti i posted this
on our discord i think yesterday there is no com there is no love and comparison
that's absolutely true right because as long as you're comparing how can you love that person
you're just seeing an assumption you're not even aware of them yeah it is it's wild how the idea of

(52:22):
yourself all comes back to comparison and i think you talk about that in discover transcendence how
that fictitious idea of you is all based on comparison any any trait you use to describe
yourself is all relative to you know like that normal bell curve of humanity like even to say

(52:44):
that you are tall or short or heavy or skinny or any of those things is all relative there's no
objective you know heavy versus light feel like muscular versus skinny it's all relative to that
bell curve of normality in that way and it's all relative to other people and you mentioned love

(53:08):
and when it comes to that i get a lot of i see a lot of people commenting things like especially
when it comes to you know psychedelic experiences is you know they're like you know all that i saw
is that everything is love and so i think you know a lot of people see that in the way that you are
sort of describing it and that that's all that's left but i think a lot of people

(53:31):
tie it to that idea of like god is love devil is hate sort of thing and not see and not
seeing it as what is left when there is no more distortion like what is left when you see yourself
in everyone and everything whether it's you know the buddha or hitler whether it's jesus or stalin

(53:52):
like that is what is left when you see that you are the whole you are all of it you are the entire
spectrum but a lot of people get very fixated on the idea of love as just being that one end of the
spectrum and it's like love to hate that spectrum it's like they're they only want like that
upper third of the spectrum that's closer to love and that's all that's all there is in the

(54:15):
universe and all that's true and i think that you know a lot of spiritual community gets tied up
in that idea and you know the ascension to 5d reality and all that [ __ ] you know it's like
getting caught up and thinking that you know you know good vibes only like
there is no hate necessary like there will be no hate left in you know the fifth dimensional

(54:41):
earth and and all that stuff and it's like well it's all you know you can't have good without
bad you can't have happiness without sadness it's all two sides of this same coin and i'm sure
you know there's people in that uh non-duality reddit thread who get caught up in those sorts
of ideas as well and it's like that is kind of the core of non-duality is that there is no division

(55:06):
between those two entities that you're prescribing as one being you know good and
necessary and a part of this new earth and one being like unnecessary and moving on it's like
it's it's all you it's all here now it's you're capable of all of it and
to think that you're not will build up this resistance within yourself that will lead to

(55:30):
a lot of internal suffering typically is how i see it play out in a lot of ways
yeah well non-duality becomes another concept it becomes another structure
um i was having this conversation with somebody the other day because i posted a video that i made
on tick tock saying something along the lines of you know in order to reveal it was something along

(55:51):
the lines of you know um faith and humility is what happens when we dissolve our ego that's the
required faith and humility to reveal the reality of god that we've always been well because i used
us and the concept of god in that sentence somebody in the non-duality forum just took issue
with it it's like you're using the word god you're not an appropriate addition to this community

(56:15):
god is not part of nonduality it's like whoa so so i wrote back to him like you know if you're
thinking of a non-duality as being like a belief structure like religion or something along those
lines i'm like you're in for a fun ride because it is not it's nothing like that nonduality has
nothing to do with conceptual anything so much as just the understanding that duality is not real

(56:38):
that it's not what it appears to be that's it there's no concept like and
a lot of people are like oh have you experienced non-duality what the hell are you talking about
right or have you experienced ego death what are you talking about like let's let's just get back
down to this it's like oh well you know i've been to the pinnacle it's like there is no pinnacle

(57:02):
there's none of that this is all just again conceptual masturbation like it's just making
you feel good it's not actually doing anything useful that's all it is but it's because we
don't know how to detach from our need to categorize from our need to conceptualize
what we experience but as soon as we do it's no longer the experience that's the point

(57:23):
that's the whole problem that that non-duality subreddit is really having problems with i mean
oh my god you can go on there and have a great time like i go on there and i just kind of
have fun you know answer some questions things like that but occasionally you'll get somebody
the intellect the intellect will just come out and they'll just nitpick at every word that you
use and they'll nitpick it every expression and and it's like what do you think of this

(57:44):
what do you think of this and my only response was this is not just an intellectual exercise
right this isn't just about how clever we are with our words so as in you know take from it what you
can or don't that's fine but i'm not gonna sit here arguing because what would i be arguing about
my rightness right like it just doesn't make any sense but it can't stick on that level

(58:09):
of it of the intellect it has to go beyond that and that's one thing i really enjoyed
about power versus force hawkins work again was that he talks about how there's a dramatic shift
after we stop thinking about ourselves to the same degree literally after we abandoned pride
we end up in a state of courage which is what he says is is a pivotal point that's when our
consciousness really starts to change is that we can move forward without necessarily running from

(58:32):
the stick or chasing the carrot which makes a lot of sense all of a sudden we experience acceptance
and some degree of freedom and in that we get a greater capacity to succeed in all
of our endeavors which is where you you go from there leading all the way up to reason
which is like the 400 to 500 level of the scale of consciousness well at the reason level of

(58:53):
reason your brain is just processing all the time but they they mention that it's non-sequential
processing and this is something that i learned i started realizing a long time ago so it kind
of looked like what we were saying about put a quarter in let's see what happens um it's
not like your brain is going through the steps of this logic this logic this logic this logic it's
like your brain just goes oh that's interesting and looks at all the different directions that

(59:16):
comes up with an insight which is very different right but at that level of reason it's almost
addictive to continue to have those insights to continue to think the insights are the point
right as opposed to the insights bringing you closer and closer to the reality of what is
right which is ultimately love and acceptance and reason and all that
other stuff which is why this the level of love in his in his model comes after reason

(59:42):
it doesn't come before reason because at that point that's egotistical love
right it's he's talking about the pure experience of love which then trans
uh transfers into joy very shortly after right so it's it's again it's just recognizing that
you can be clever about this it's like have you ever seen the movie harvey

(01:00:05):
i don't think so oh my god it's a great movie it's from i think it was the 40s or the 50s it's
with jimmy stewart from it's a wonderful life it's about a guy named mr dowd and his puka and
apooka is an eight-foot invisible rabbit just a mythical being that he is absolutely sure is

(01:00:27):
there the entire movie is about mr dowd and his relationship with harvey this invisible rabbit
and everybody in his life is judging him despite the fact that he was completely miserable and an
alcoholic before meeting this rabbit they just keep judging him as being crazy and at one point
in the movie he's talking to the the nurse at the psych ward that they're trying to to put him in

(01:00:52):
and she's like she's talking to him about why he is the way he is and he says well you know it
dawned on me one day that you can be oh so clever or oh so pleasant i prefer pleasant and it's a
beautiful line of course delivered perfectly by jimmy stewart right but the entire movie is about

(01:01:13):
it's not about your cleverness it's not about all of your certainty it's about the quality of your
life it's about the quality of your relationships and and what you bring into those relationships
being clever is never going to be happy it's never going to be fulfilled you might feel fulfilled
when you're being clever but what about the rest of the time when there's no problem solved
it's a great movie i definitely recommend it yeah i'll check it out it's it's interesting the idea

(01:01:40):
of cleverness and if that is you know like a part of your identity that people almost expect
out of you in a way and it's like that guy you mentioned i think a few episodes ago that you were
talking to and he always has like these one-liners ready to go and you're like hey man like you don't
have to you know keep doing this and he almost like you know broke down and couldn't even handle

(01:02:05):
that because he's become so used to existing in that way and i see that sometimes with
you know celebrities or even like people who are considered funny people i see that a lot in that
they it's almost like a lot of times you know they are funny just naturally but like people expect

(01:02:25):
some like witty responses to everything and i don't know you know how they feel
internally necessarily but i can imagine because i can kind of put myself in their shoes of
needing that sort of expectation or you know meeting and living up to these expectations

(01:02:45):
of this idea of themselves and i can imagine that it's you know pretty pretty draining in a way and
and i think that's part of the reason why for myself like i try to be very
open with things and authentic and you know reassure people i got someone comment
on one of my videos recently like man you're always so positive like i'd love to get to that

(01:03:08):
you know point in my life as well like can you teach me how to get there and i just responded
laughing like oh man i have not always positive you know i do realize that you know getting
myself out of the way can help in you know easing those feelings of you know lack or any feeling

(01:03:29):
of i don't know just any sort of negative type of feeling usually comes back to my identity etc etc
but it's it's interesting when people have an idea of other people and i see that a lot out there of
just it's it's almost like and people do talk about it sometimes the idea of you know playing

(01:03:50):
this character that's kind of like a lot of what jim carrey talks about is like he was playing this
character of jim carrey where everyone always expected him to be kind of life of the party
always have a witty response and he went through a state of depression when he got tired of of
playing that character and he in a few interviews refers to depressed as this idea of deep rest from

(01:04:15):
playing this character that they've been playing their entire lives so when you get caught up in
thinking that you are equal to the idea of yourself that everyone else is painted it
you know turns into a prison and all of a sudden you have to remember how to act and
you're like how do these people perceive me they perceive me you know this way and this

(01:04:37):
way okay i have to act this way and this way instead of just you know allowing that sort of
universal awareness that you are deep down to exist here and now and sort of flow with things
you're almost building up this internal friction and resistance to what is by trying to hold on to
this idea of yourself and validate this idea of yourself for everyone else and i think in that

(01:05:01):
non-duality subreddit you kind of talked about how people are building it up to be this concept and
how you know the person came at you for using terms like god and whatever and it's almost like
people who get caught up in that have to remember how to be and they're like oh this
is a non-duality subreddit that means i can't do x y z that means i need to do x y z and it's like

(01:05:25):
they have to remember and it's the same thing with any sort of conceptual idea or even this
idea of yourself it's like you have to remember how to act and anytime you're doing that will
build up this friction and resistance to what is inevitably there's no way to like kind of do both
it's like it it's they're mutually exclusive and anytime you're clinging to an idea or feeling like

(01:05:51):
you have to remember how to act and when it comes to non-duality like yeah there are things you can
and can't do and it's like having a concept about what non-duality is is the opposite of nonduality
or it's it's exactly what it isn't you know is holding on to concepts and ideas so anytime you
get caught up in that so it's not something you have to do it's something you have to

(01:06:16):
like remember that there is nothing to do almost in that way you know yeah and that's what makes
people uncomfortable right because it requires them to let go of their opinions and their
preferences to some degree and and again atrocious stories immediately come to the surface like so
somebody was writing in this subreddit that um you know any any person who's not deluded would see

(01:06:42):
that everything's not one because if everything was one then murder and theft would be okay
what like and that was my whole reaction it's like i'm not sure you're getting this that your
opinion of murder and theft doesn't change the reality of their existence right because the fact

(01:07:04):
is is that everything is permitted there's no universal police force saying you can't do this
or do that if you can do it it's permitted but unfortunately there's still a consequence there's
ripples no matter what you do it's going to have some kind of impact it's going to come back to
you if you want to steal from somebody it's not that that's against the rules of existence

(01:07:24):
but somebody else who you still is stolen from might take issue with it and come and come and
deal with you as a result so there's choice right there's consequence sure but there's no universal
set of rules like this is good and this is bad and that's not it because there isn't a single thing
within unity that's not happening to itself right like if you're stealing from somebody

(01:07:46):
you're stealing from yourself this is what i was trying to say to the person it's like
the ten commandments make sense they are common sense if you recognize your everyone
if you recognize that we're all one but if you're following the ten commandments to try and learn
how to treat other people you're never going to recognize unity because you're still perceiving
other people because you're still perceiving your preferences and your judgments so it just

(01:08:11):
doesn't work i mean non-duality doesn't have an opinion on what should be non-duality is just
the recognition of what is right and us as a part of it it's not like yeah i've experienced what is
and this is what needs to change that's not how that works that's that ego thing again but again

(01:08:32):
it's if i'm not sitting at a point where i'm saying this is okay this is not okay what the hell
am i here for it's like well you're here to serve your purpose you're here to actually just you know
be part of the whole and continue to move around and do what you're doing which may include judging
people may which may not but that's arbitrary that's based on your experience and what you'd

(01:08:52):
like to experience and and what you've learned to do habitually or otherwise it has nothing to do
with some universal golden rule this is okay and this no this is not that doesn't exist
well it's always funny having that conversation with people and it's like you know no good or bad
they're like oh all right so i'm just gonna murder your family you know no good or bad it's like you

(01:09:18):
do you want to do that like why is that you know you have a lot of opportunity to take any sort
of action you want and that's what you're going to settle on it seems seems pretty shallow for
you know the infinite opportunities in this experience like that's that's really what you want
to do and they're like well no but like that's not the point you said there's no good or bad so like

(01:09:40):
i could do it it's like yeah you could and i would be extremely hurt uh you would go to jail for the
rest of your life your family would probably have you know repercussions in some sort of
way your face would be plastered all over the news you'd be hated by you know hundreds of thousands
of people like just because you can doesn't mean you should and just because you can doesn't mean

(01:10:06):
it's the best option out of the things that are capable for you to do in this
life and it's concerning that you would even suggest that in that way it makes me kind of
question where your head's at right now and so it's it's interesting because people always go
to murder and and killing in that way and it's like okay well what if you know like

(01:10:30):
every rule needs a second and third rule it's like what if someone's trying to kill you
it's like so people will ask like you know what about morality like we need morality and
what about you know religion provides morality and rules and it's like well morality is also
all made up because the idea of don't kill you know if someone's trying to kill you are

(01:10:52):
you still just gonna stand there with your hands behind your back and be like here you go stab me
in the chest it's like no you're probably gonna try and defend yourself and that's why you know
we made a secondary rule where if you kill someone in self-defense it's not murder so it's like don't
kill unless someone's trying to kill you it's like every rule needs that second and third rule so

(01:11:14):
morality is another thing that's just completely made up and it's like do you really is that why
you're not killing someone because it's in the ten commandments and it's rule and the other part of
that is like we can make something illegal because we as a society don't want it to happen you know
we we have been able to see the repercussions of those sorts of actions and we're like

(01:11:40):
okay you do this you're gonna go to jail there is no good or bad involved in that it's just illegal
it's just like more of a factual thing like you do this and maybe there is a gray area you go to
court and then you know you see a jury etc etc you're deemed guilty you go to jail there's no
like good or bad in that it's it's like legal or illegal in that sort of sense so like the

(01:12:04):
illegality aspect doesn't involve good or bad it doesn't need to and then you know people will
be like well we made it illegal because it's bad it's like that's just you layering on your
you know individual perceptions of it but yeah there is no objective right and wrong good or bad
it's all made up based on you know how we deem society to best function in you know the eyes

(01:12:31):
of society which you know is changing as we see as well but you know every country has different
rules also so it's like even that in itself just shows that they're in every religion too
it's like some religions you can't eat certain foods some religions you have to
you know drink wine because they think it's the blood of some dude you know it's like
everything has different rules and everyone has a different god too so it's like you know there is

(01:12:56):
no consensus on any of that so it's clear that none of it's objective yeah but it makes you
wonder i was thinking that our over commitment to our idea of ourself actually necessitates morality
because as long as we have an idea of ourself it's in duality which means it's either good or bad
so we have to judge the rest of the world based on how we judge ourselves so we need

(01:13:22):
some structure of good and bad so we can know where we're supposed to stay within our idea of
ourself so it's interesting when you question morality and somebody's like oh well what's to
stop me from going out and murdering somebody it's like have you never experienced empathy
just saying and if not that's probably because you're over committed to your identity
right because identity and morality makes sense they're both conceptual fictions they go hand in

(01:13:47):
hand whereas presence and empathy go hand in hand right so the more you're in your identity the less
present you are the less empathy you can feel now you need a rule telling you not to do this and not
to do that because you're not aware of the damage that you're causing right you don't have the
wherewithal to be clear enough to see that you're making an impact and so we have to kind of give

(01:14:10):
you you know guides to tell you where to go right or you give yourself those guys because you lack
faith in your ability to be in the present and move accordingly right so it's like no i need a
structure to tell me what what a good person is it's like but as long as you're relying on it
you're not one because you're not free you're not even a person you're an idea and you're trying

(01:14:34):
to live within a script how can you experience life like that you can't but you can experience
a fictional life where you have to settle for being right compared to your assumptions of others
yeah that's actually a very good question are you a good person if you need to rely on rules to be

(01:14:55):
a good person it's like oh all right that's that's actually a pretty good philosophical
question like if you actually need rules are you just a good rule follower or are you a good person
and it brings about that question so yeah it's it does come back to that feeling of empathy but

(01:15:16):
it is difficult to get to and i think there's almost two sorts of definitions of
empathy it's like there's kind of the surface level dualistic idea of empathy where you're like
oh you can put yourself in their shoes and kind of like yeah like i i kind of get like i feel
bad for them you kind of feel some pity and whatnot but i i think true empathy is being

(01:15:40):
able to see that you are them like if you traded adam for adam experience for experience with
with them you would act exactly as they do you would do the same exact thing there's nothing
changing that there's no you know soul or whatever that that is you know belongs to you

(01:16:02):
in that way that would separate you like you are an embodiment of all of those sorts of things
and experiences and all these things that a lot of them you didn't really have necessarily like
at least this idea of yourself didn't necessarily have a choice in so like that person didn't either

(01:16:24):
to a degree in that way and so if you traded with them there would be no difference and so
seeing that there is no nothing left to judge you know like judgment stems from duality and feeling
like you are separate from everything because without that feeling there's no ground left to

(01:16:48):
stand on to apply judgment to someone else for the way they act or the things they do it's like
it becomes very difficult to instill judgment on other people when you see that you are them
and you would act exactly as they do so as long as you feel separate and you feel like you would
act differently it's pretty easy to judge because you have something to stand up but then it's also

(01:17:14):
easy to judge yourself and a lot of that stems from that i think a lot of people who
are very judgmental of others are judgmental of themselves and i see that a lot when i talk about
you know how you know people don't really think about other people very much like most of their
life is spent thinking about themselves and their idea of themselves so like for you to worry about

(01:17:35):
what other people think of you is is just it doesn't really make much sense at the end of the
day and i'll have people comment like oh i worry a lot about what other people think of me but i also
think about other people a lot like it's kind of the same thing so like being someone who
is fairly busy and has a lot of my own stuff going on like i don't really have time to think about

(01:17:59):
other people so it's interesting how a lot of the times that people who are so worried about other
people judging them and it's like on top of that i don't you know i don't give a [ __ ] what people
think of me at the same time so like people who are super worried about other people judging them
it's funny how simultaneously they're kind of the ones having this opinion of people and it's

(01:18:19):
like which came first the chicken or the egg you being afraid of their judgments or you judging
other people and maybe if you worked on stop judging everyone all the time you would realize
that there aren't many people actually judging you but because you are doing it it's like reinforcing
this idea that everyone else must be doing that as well and you know you could say the same thing

(01:18:39):
about me that i don't do it very much so therefore i have this perception that no one's really doing
it to me when in reality you know they might be more than i think but do i give a [ __ ]
no are they judging a reflection of themselves yeah so does it really matter not really
and don't judge not lest you be judged right like that that's that's the whole thing but

(01:19:02):
as long as i have an idea about you or about myself i have to judge i have to like there's
there's no way out of it but it's funny because i'm never judging other people always judging
myself because anything i see in other people is based on what i see in myself or what i want
to see in myself and there's the duality right like it's always comparison if i have an idea of
myself as being you know insecure everybody else is more confident and that's how i perceive them

(01:19:27):
right and that's that's the whole thing so we're never actually interacting with other people it's
always just with our own [ __ ] it's just that other people are the scenery that we use to
justify you know that that little play that we're perpetuating in our head and it's interesting we
were talking about this in the last um in the last live stream yesterday we were talking about how

(01:19:48):
it's like we have to shed our our old habits of judging or shut our old beliefs about ourself and
i think that to some degree there's a there's a process of that where we start to wake up to the
idea that we're not who we think we are we really pound on that like to just keep you know digging
at it the more we we get lost in our crap and our suffering and our conflict we go oh wait i'm just

(01:20:09):
getting caught up in that again and so we start to do that and up until a certain point it feels like
we are shedding old habits that they're there and we're working against them
and then all of a sudden somewhere along that process that feeling stops it's not like i'm
fighting my past habits anymore it's not like i'm fighting past behaviors it's like i have to

(01:20:35):
be aware of what i'm creating here and now like i'm creating my past here and now i'm
creating my idea here and now it's not that it's a visual it's not from the past i'm doing it again
each and every moment as soon as i bring up the idea of me right so it's just this weird
transition point where all of a sudden it's like you're trying to break a habit that's

(01:20:55):
from the past and then all of a sudden you realize you're trying to break the habit that is the past
there is no past right and that's it you just you stop trying to create your narrative in each
and every moment and as soon as you stop trying to create it you realize it's not there right whereas
before it's like oh it's it's habit it's created for me i can't help myself you're still doing

(01:21:17):
it you're still doing it you just told yourself another story and that's why for the longest time
i kept reminding myself i don't know how i'm doing i don't know where this is all supposed to go
at all i have no intention outside of whatever it is i'm doing right now right and that has to

(01:21:37):
be it it has to be it because anything other than that you've lost the point again it's become about
you it's become about your idea of yourself it's like i was saying to you before that as soon as
we are stuck in our identity we are also stuck in time because every narrative has a timeline
yeah it's crazy how how we have to continue that idea like perpetually continue that sort of idea

(01:22:03):
to keep it around and keep reminding ourselves of that idea so it's like even something like
you know your strengths and weaknesses like i have gotten to a point where
i kind of hate the idea of people and i don't know hates a strong word but of people you know
asking what are your strengths and weaknesses because it's so identity driven and it's so

(01:22:28):
hyper focused on this idea of you to think that you have strengths and weaknesses like you are
nothing more than what you are right now so your strengths and weaknesses are all just based on
experiences relative experiences to everyone else to think that you know there is even an objective
strength or weakness that you could possibly have like you can't even have that because any strength

(01:22:53):
is relative to the norm any weakness is relative to the norm so it's all rooted in in comparison
there's no objective like oh i'm really good at this it's like you're really good at it relative
to everyone else like imagine for a second we lived in a world where you know no one was good at
baseball and you figured out how to throw a ball and hit a ball all of a sudden you're an amazing

(01:23:16):
baseball player but if you stepped into major league baseball right now in this sort of reality
you'd be a horrendous baseball player because you could only hit you know 40 mile per hour pitch and
you know they're throwing at 100 miles per hour so it's all relative so even to think that you have
strengths and weaknesses it's like how could you have all these strengths and weaknesses when you

(01:23:39):
are just right now like you have to remember all these past things and you're like hmm this
is something that i think and a lot of times the craziest part is that you don't even know
like you're not even there's not even like strengths and weaknesses aren't rooted in fact
they're just this part of the story that we keep telling you're telling ourselves and that was you

(01:24:03):
know the thing that kind of allowed me to finally break through and like start posting content was
that i had all these ideas that i have these weaknesses and they weren't rooted in fact
it wasn't like someone came over and was like i have analog andrew i've analyzed your entire life
and these are your strengths and these are your weaknesses you should focus on these you should
work on these and have a good day it's like no it was all figments of my imagination based on

(01:24:29):
this story i kept bringing with me through from everything in my past into right now but it was
a story i was telling myself right now and it was rooted in the past and it wasn't based in fact so
having you know even the idea of having strengths and weaknesses is i think silly and and

(01:24:51):
only kind of harmful to think even when you have you know strengths to to have that it's
like that's the same sort of mentality that your weaknesses are rooted in that idea of having both
it's like you are just right now you don't know what's going to happen let's find out but we don't

(01:25:11):
have to bring this story of ourselves and all of our strengths and weaknesses with us into every
single moment because that will kind of have some influence if we have this idea of what we are and
who we are and our strengths and weaknesses will have an impact on the situation at hand rather
than you know allowing for the infinite amount of possibilities to potentially occur here and now

(01:25:34):
and that's freedom yeah what's worse is that if you haven't had a lot of life experiences if you
haven't faced a lot of challenges for example to give yourself an idea of what your strengths and
weak strengths and weaknesses are then all of a sudden you resort to astrology right which tells
you what your strengths and weaknesses are now you have a lot of certainty to define yourself

(01:25:56):
and validate all of your habits and and whatnot and don't worry if something's not in alignment
with your current with your your perceived sign then we will do a chart and we will find all of
the nuance that goes into that just to fill out that story so it's general enough that
you feel it applies to you right and that's that's ultimately what it is is why astrology is referred
to as the earliest form of idolatry right it's because you're looking outside of yourself for

(01:26:20):
the truth you're looking outside of yourself for god and that is the problem this is why i'm not
i don't subscribe to astrology and it's because i've had my chart read numerous times i i once
once upon a time i believed oh yeah no i am my sign so on and so forth and and what not
and there's some stuff there and it's just like going for a tarot reading i mean there's some

(01:26:41):
generalities there's there's that ounce of truth for sure right but then it all just kind of gets a
wash of of self-definition it starts getting lost in the idea of your narrative and who you are and
what your limitations are and that then again that you were you were born with a certain purpose and
narrative and everything else like it's just so disempowering whereas you know to look at

(01:27:03):
all the signs of astrology and go wow what an interesting way of trying to um describe the
spectrum of what's possible within consciousness of what's possible within our awareness totally
different story right which is why when you go to people who really are interested in astrology they
don't just look at say your sign they will also look at numerous other things that are happening

(01:27:26):
in the stars in conjunction with your sign to talk about more nuance that there is in fact
other things to consider it's not just that you know you are this sign therefore you're
close to your parents and that depends on a lot of other things and and the people who are
in depth about astrology will at least try to compensate for that but the problem is is that
they're still giving you a story they're still giving you a narrative and the fact

(01:27:48):
is that as soon as you recognize you're not your identity you are now all of the astrological signs
you're not just one right that was part and parcel with the ego that you grew up into and adopted but
you can you can abandon it and open yourself up to all of the other strengths and weaknesses that
lie within consciousness it's just about what you're doing here and now because here and now

(01:28:11):
you're the entirety of what is you're not just a cancer you're not just a libra you're not just a
virgo you know ever so just let that go and you'll experience what it is to be them all
yeah it's fascinating just how much when you really
you know dive into that sort of realm how rooted in identity and ego it is and duality it is

(01:28:36):
completely you know dualistic to think that you are this story and because you were born
on a certain day of a certain year in a certain location when you know the earth is doing a
certain thing that you know all these traits apply to you and it's like it's it's very interesting i
i don't you know prescribe to any belief system anymore but it's it's also fascinating just how

(01:29:04):
much sort of i don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or what exactly but when you know you
come across a situation that doesn't really fit you know who you are and they'll be like oh well
yeah you know but but these look at these parts of it and it's like this is and it's it's crazy
how i've come across i don't mean to say crazy you know it is it is what it is but um

(01:29:28):
you know people a lot of times it's it's females that i come across who will you know learn
someone's sign and be like oh no like they went on a date with them or something and they'll be like
oh i can't date them you know they're a libra and i'm a aquarius and we would no we would never
we would never get along it's like oh my gosh like that person could have been

(01:29:51):
you know perfect for you but because you have this idea of who they are before you even meet them and
the idea of who you are all of a sudden because you think you have a perfect match or a soulmate
based on the stars and astrology and everything that you're you're limiting and you're sort of

(01:30:11):
putting on those blinders and you may be missing an opportunity to meet someone that is actually
great for you and even that like i don't know it's crazy to think that someone could just you know
not know what time they were born and maybe they were born in a different time and they tell them
one time they're like oh you're this this this you're totally that sign like that makes so much

(01:30:35):
sense and then it's like that's not even what they are but they're they're like sort of fitting them
into that narrative because of that idea and it goes along with um what is it when you're when
your brain uh conformational bias where you know you have this idea of them and who they are and

(01:30:56):
because you know their sign and all these sorts of traits about that sign you you only notice
those sorts of things about them but there's so many other things about them but because you
go into it with this idea of who they are it's like that's all you see it's like when you have
this idea of who you are as yourself that's all you notice when in reality there are all these
other things happening and maybe you aren't you know necessarily doing all these things that you

(01:31:19):
think you are but because that's who you think you are that's all you're noticing so it goes
you know in that way as well absolutely and i'll say from my own experience i've
never ever met somebody who was completely immersed in astrology who felt at peace
i just haven't at peace in certain times sure but as soon as things started going sideways as

(01:31:44):
soon as they didn't feel like they were able to deal with reality or that they felt that things
were going according to what they would prefer they didn't um immediately it was oh you know
the stars are working against me i got to wait for such and such and and this deacon and and
so on and so forth and it's like okay you're disempowering yourself like you're taking away
all of your your potential to just be here in the moment and deal with what's happening now

(01:32:06):
you know because you're telling yourself a story and it's just it goes back to that same thing of
it's comforting to have an idea of who i am it's comforting in the same way as being suffocated
right it's like it's warm and it's pleasant until you die and then that's the thing about
you know clinging on to fictional ideas of ourself is that it comforts us right into

(01:32:29):
oblivion we walk ourselves right into conflict and distortion and suffering as a result
and so we're so caught up in in the initial benefit like i'm saying about you know my
life coaching business transcendence everybody's like what's the point it's like to recognize
which strategies you're invested in for the benefit that are actually causing the consequence

(01:32:49):
right like that's all this is about this isn't about anything else except for where you're over
committed and therefore blinding yourself to the conflict that you're creating as a result
that's all this is about astrology is no different you can take from astrology and
learn from astrology you can take from anything and learn from it but if you identify with it if

(01:33:10):
you make it your narrative you make it your story and you stop questioning it
it will be your prison and that that is the only real danger i mean somebody's like oh should we
avoid this should we avoid this no and then go listen to channelers and go do your tarot go and
have your your chart read whatever but just don't commit to it as truth look at it as the insight

(01:33:33):
that it's going to provide you in the moment that you're in right but beware how much you're
going to resort back to that just to feel more secure or more certain right like i have a friend
every time that she's going through something difficult in her life she refers to her chart
it's like well how much energy and time are you doing are you spending doing that
whereas if you weren't you might have an insight that would help you solve your problem

(01:33:58):
right but we're tying up all our energy trying to feel better and that's what gets in our way
and so it's always the same thing it's like take it with a grain of salt trade it lightly you know
learn from it where you can but let's focus on on what's important which is our experience now
yeah it's it's very interesting just to to hear about those sorts of experiences and just how

(01:34:26):
rooted in that that people get and how much you know they they almost like find that
soulless in it but it's kind of like meditation in a way that i found more recently that it
became this thing that i felt like i had to do and this thing that was a requirement for me to
take on the day and when i realized that i didn't need it and all of a sudden you know it freed up

(01:34:50):
an extra you know 10 to 20 minutes of my morning to actually you know do things and actually take
action as opposed to being tied to this narrative or this idea of who i was as someone who meditated
or had a morning routine or something like that it's like i am none of those things so it's the

(01:35:12):
same way when it comes to astrology thinking that you are you know this person i am someone
who's into astrology that is reinforcing that identity that unstable identity that is the root
of all that suffering and fear and worry and you know depression and all of that is reinforced by
that idea and any sort of idea that you cling to that you see as the truth is you know reinforcing

(01:35:40):
that so yeah it's like you don't if you didn't spend all that time you know going through
the charts and trying to search all of these things to figure out what's going on
you would maybe be able to see things a little more clearly and actually face them head on
as opposed to relying on this crutch for your entire life to you know take on your problems

(01:36:05):
i i'm never it never ceases to amaze me or surprise me or make me laugh how often
we get confused between trying to live a godly narrative as opposed to just being godly right
i think that's the funniest part about it is that the epic story you're looking for is what remains

(01:36:27):
when you stop narrating the story right when you stop limiting the scope of what's possible when
you stop jotting down the story according to what you already know or what you're
comfortable with or what you're afraid of then the story can change the story can
become something that you've never imagined and that you've never run across because you're not
trying to make it into something that you've run across previously because you're not afraid right

(01:36:51):
and that's the whole thing it's like you know i want to live an epic life it's like stop trying
just be where you are right and and the experience you have will start to inform what you mean by
epic but we have an idea of epic we have an idea of godly we have an idea of divine and that's
what stops us from experiencing it that's what stops us from actually being in the moment where

(01:37:14):
everything we do is fluid and rewarding because it's an extension of ourselves without us getting
in the way right and that's that's very much the point so we're almost at two hours here of course
you know lots to talk about after a two-week break uh i just wanted to mention a few things
to everyone we have a free live group zoom happening this wednesday uh february 2nd at

(01:37:37):
6 pm eastern time if you'd like to join us just go to the dualistic unity.com website click on
events in the menu and you can register there registration is limited there is limited seating
so do do that as soon as you can after that event we're actually going to be doing another live show
shortly after that for our patreon supporters if you are a supporter on patreon of course

(01:37:57):
you have free access to that live show as well if you're not a supporter it's only five dollars
a month and of course all of our support goes towards beyond transcendence goes towards the nfts
and the dow and whatever it is whatever else it is we're doing with dualistic unity so your support
is always appreciated um likewise if you are a patreon member we are also doing another group

(01:38:17):
zoom chat on the 16th of february that one is going to be about an hour and a half to two hours
long we're just shooting the breeze um there's no purpose or point to it so if you have questions
for us that is the ideal place to ask them and that's about it for the announcements this time
around this has been a great episode i've really enjoyed this this has really just been about
i think the process of realizing our narrative is more of prison than it is a benefit and and

(01:38:44):
i think that that's very much going to be the title of this episode is you know
freedom from our narrative because that's that's the step that our brain doesn't want to make
it doesn't understand how do i continue to be me if there's no me
to have an idea about it's like well you don't need me to have an idea about in order to be you
you're always you right like that's the whole point allow yourself to see what that's capable of

(01:39:11):
without you putting an idea around it just to feel certain yeah yeah it's just like you don't
have to cling to that idea as a sense of security and i think people oftentimes think of it as you
know sort of like a life preserver or a life vest when they don't realize that they know how to swim

(01:39:32):
and they're holding on to it thinking that they need this thing and clinging to it and they're
so afraid of letting go it's like you've been able to swim the entire time and and
that idea of yourself and your strengths and your weaknesses and the story you keep telling yourself
is that life preserver that is you know you'll inevitably get tired and need to let go and at

(01:39:54):
that point it might be too tired even to swim but if if you're disabled to swim you can swim back to
shore pretty easily and you don't need that life preserver anymore so i think you know it all just
starts with questioning i think that's a great first step for a lot of people is just questioning
the narrative they keep telling themselves every single day because i know it well you know it's

(01:40:17):
something that you tell yourself every day it's not just something that comes up here and there
it's a constant thing that informs every decision you make every action you take and all of your
strengths and weaknesses come along with that and the truth is you don't have strengths and
weaknesses they're all relative they're all in comparison to everyone else so realizing that
you don't actually have strengths and weaknesses can be an amazing first step in questioning them

(01:40:42):
and allowing yourself to experience the infinite amount of potential that you have here and now
when you let go of that story and just start to swim so true because it's so much easier to swim
when you're not weighing yourself down with false identities and concepts yeah without a doubt this

(01:41:02):
has been a great episode thank you everybody for joining us we will of course see you next week if
you can join us on wednesday we will see you there looking forward to it can't wait bye everyone

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