Episode 34: Love & Hate - Miss T.T

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During this episode of the Love & Hate series, Dub & Tre sit down with Miss T.T to continue their  explorartion into different experiences in relationships.  Listen in to get this Southern Bells perspective on Dating, Income, and Gender roles in a relationship. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
we have another wonderful guest.
We would like to introduce ttto the podcast, so tell us a
little bit about yourself.
Say hello, tt hello everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
my name, everyone.
My name is Titi.
I'm an original native fromGeorgia.
I'm here in Maryland, glad tobe on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Good to have you, good to have you.
We definitely like to get adifferent perspective on the
show.
You know everybody can be likeminded, like Dub and Trey, so we
want to definitely have somedifferent voices and some
different perspectives.
So let's jump right into it.
Titi, I got a question for you.
When you hear a relationship is50-50, what does that mean to

(00:54):
you?
Do you believe in 50-50relationships?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh, that's a good question.
When I hear that a relationshipis 50-50, what I hear is that
neither party is sort of givingtheir all.
Now I do understand that therewill be times like when maybe
the male needs to show up morethan the female and vice versa,
but I do think the goal shouldbe that everybody's trying to

(01:21):
give at least 100.
So I personally don't believein the 50-50.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay.
That's interesting, that'sinteresting.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Why do you think a lot of men are pushing that
narrative about going 50-50?
Because I feel like men arekind of saying that more than
women.
You know what I'm saying.
So why do you think men arescreaming that 50-50 a little
bit more than probably in thepast?
And the second part of thatquestion is do you think that
women who don't believe in 50-50think on the same lines as you

(01:54):
do about it being 100-100 versus50-50?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Gotcha.
Well, I can start off by sayingI'm pretty sure a lot of women
don't agree with my viewpoint.
That's kind of why I startedoff with off by saying I'm
pretty sure a lot of women don'tagree with my viewpoint.
That's kind of why I startedoff with the introduction like
I'm from the South.
So you know I'm a little bitmore traditional than a lot of
women, but I think that you know, men, some men are starting to
be, you know, more proponents ofthe 50-50, just because a lot

(02:21):
of women are now wanting moreauthority, I'll say, in the
relationship.
You know, they're wanting tohave more of a voice, they're
wanting to, you know, get outand make their own money or have
their own businesses or streamsof income.
And so you're, in my opinion,you're starting to see more
masculine type women or womenthat are having more of that

(02:43):
masculine energy, and so, forthat reason, that's why I think
that a lot of men are like allright, well, if you're trying to
be on my level within this,going to be 50, 50, then I'm not
doing the most and you know youwant to be on the same level
that I'm on.
Again, that's just my opinion,right.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right, if you want to dominate, if you want to
dominate certain things, thenyou should be contributing as if
you're in that same energy, inthat same space, right?
I mean, that's how a lot of menthink.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
yeah, I would definitely does 50 50 move past
financial pieces?
Because I feel like sometimeswhen we talk about that 50 50,
it gets woven into differentpieces of relationships, sort of
when it benefits the personwho's bringing it up.
You know what I'm saying.
So initially, for me, when Ithink 50-50, when I hear someone

(03:34):
say that I'm thinkingfinancially 50-50.
I do have, you do have, we bothbring our financial pieces
together and we sort of do ourthing that way where you're
responsible for half of whateverwe have and I'm responsible for
what?
Half of whatever we have.
But I feel like relationships ingeneral have always been kind
of 50 50.
When it came to decision making, Like in my experiences I don't

(03:57):
know, you know you couldobviously agree or disagree with
this, and my experience is withmy parents and people I know
when it comes comes todecision-making and things like
that, that's always sort of beena 50-50 thing.
I don't know many men inrelationships who respect their
women that just make decisionswithout her input or her say-so

(04:21):
in it and they may not call that50-50, but I feel like that's
always existed in some way shapeor form outside of the
financial piece.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, I can agree with that.
I definitely think that when itcomes to any sort of decision,
just like with any relationship,that that should be like a
partnership.
So there is a conversation thatboth parties should have.
But I do believe, if you know,if there's a situation where we
need to sort of if we're atopposite ends of the spectrum, I

(04:51):
do think then it should be.
Then the male whatever 50, 50or you would be more traditional
with a man is typically theprovider when it comes to the
finances.

(05:15):
I would say, growing up, likeyou know, like my, my brothers,
my father, my grandfather, theyalways took care of like their
women, like that's what I'veseen.
But me personally I can sayfrom my experience I like to be
someone that also sort ofcontributes.
So it doesn't appear as if notnecessarily that you're taking

(05:38):
like your, you know your spousefor granted.
But I just, I don't know, Ijust feel like it's also the
female's responsibility to sortof pull her weight.
Um, so yeah, that's, that'sthat's what I think.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, and that, who, who, who influenced you most
when it comes to the men andwomen role in a relationship?
Who do you think influenced youthe most?

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Um, definitely my grandparents and, um, my
brothers.
Honestly, um, my grandparents,before they passed, like they've
been married for 50 years andduring that time, like my
grandfather basically just tookcare of my grandmother, you know
she basically handled all thedomestic things or whatever, but
she'd always, you know, say toyou know, find you a good man,

(06:24):
whatever, whatever, but alwayshave your own.
So you sort of have somethingto fall back on.
And then again, seeing mybrothers and you know, being the
only female and growing up withlike brothers and male cousins
or whatever they always talkabout.
You know, it's a man'sresponsibility to take care of a
, you know, of their woman, butthey also want to see that, you

(06:45):
know, if something happened, um,that they felt like the woman
also could have their back.
So, um, I would say that's whoinfluenced me the most.
And then just you know, I justthink I don't want to say like
you sort of um, expect for theworst to happen, but I do feel,
like you know you should, youshould sort of have you like

(07:08):
some sort of backup plan.
Like I hate to be in asituation where you know the
relationship didn't work or themarriage didn't work, whatever
it is, and then you know, likeyou see that a lot of times,
like on reality shows, where yousee these women, that now,
after the man leaves, it's likethey have nothing you know.
So they're fighting hard forchild support or alimony or
whatever, because they didn'thave their own sort of income.

(07:29):
Or I don't want to say a backupplan, but just some other way
to sort of, you know, providefor themselves.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
So yeah, it's uh.
It's interesting that conceptwhen, when you're in something,
that expectation is very highfor it could be very high for a
woman If that's her thing, shewants a man to take care of
everything but when, if thatdynamic changes, then you know,

(07:55):
like you said, you should have abackup plan and be preparing uh
things, you know, puttingthings away financially,
educating yourself, having acareer, having different goals,
those type of things.
But if you're solely relying ona man who has flaws, who can
change his mind, who can lie,who can wake up and say, hey, I

(08:19):
don't want to do this anymore,you are essentially putting,
putting someone else'sdecision-making in front of your
own.
And then there's a you know,and then there's an expectation
or consequence that somebody hasto pay for that after the fact,
and typically it's the man.

(08:41):
But again, um, that's a goodpoint.
That's interesting, I guess,for me when it comes to um again
.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Um, that's a good point.
That's interesting, I guess,for me.
When it comes to um, which isjust a little too bold a backup
plan and I agree people shouldhave some type of backup plan
right but somewhere in thatspace I believe that an immature
person could uses that backupplan as a means of like I, I'm
only going to try this hardbecause I know that I can leave

(09:08):
and be okay Versus when youdon't have that or you're
working on that backup plan.
And I'm not saying it is goodto be forced to stay in a
relationship.
That's a bad relationship.
But the reality is, is that whenyou're with somebody long
enough you're going to have badtimes?
It doesn't necessarily meanyou're in a bad relationship.
It just means you're goingthrough a bad moment or a bad

(09:31):
time, regardless of what that isRight, whether y'all are not
communicating well or thephysical part might not be there
.
But anyone who's been in anytype of long term relationship
knows that things are up anddown Right.
The down part doesn'tnecessarily mean you're in a bad
relationship.
But there's a piece of me thatbelieves that when people have
that nest egg where they canstep away, that the immature

(09:56):
minded person would choose to dothat, like I'm not going
through this, I shouldn't haveto do this.
It's been two months since XYZ,or three months or four months
or whatever it is, and theychoose to just leave versus
sticking it out and not dealingwith the downside of those
relationships.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, yeah.
I love the fact that you saidthough that would be an immature
person, because you know itgoes back to what is the motive
of why you're setting that youknow, quote unquote nest egg,
and it shouldn't be.
This is my escape plan.
You know what I mean it shouldbe.
You know, again, this is thebackup.
You know what I mean.
Like I would hate to think that.
You know, my partner and myspouse, whatever, if we come

(10:36):
across hard times, you know, andhaving to, you know I'm not a
man, but, again, having so manymen in my life that talk about
the different struggles that youguys go through, you know,
trying to live up to being quoteunquote a real man, so I would
hate to think that if they wentthrough something, then now they
have that additional pressureof you know, how am I going to

(10:56):
provide for my family?
Is my woman going to look at medifferently?
You know, because I'm notbringing in as much or
whatever's going on.
You know I would like to thinkthat you know whoever you know
the woman is, would be like youknow what baby, I got you for a
couple of months.
I, you know, I had this saved up, or let's pull from what I got.
You know what I'm saying?
Like that again, that goes backto why I think it should be 100

(11:16):
, 100, you know, we're both, youknow, putting in the same
effort.
If we both have like sort ofthe same long-term goals, then
we're both working for the samething.
Maybe right now, as the man,you want to just pay all the
bills, and that's fine, but thatdoesn't mean that I'm not still
going to be making sure that wegot savings.
Or, you know, this is ourtravel money, I don't know, but
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
That's that's why I say again it has to be 100, 100,
not that 50, 50.

(11:55):
Yeah, and sticking to, like the50 50.
I know we kind of moved awayfrom it, but there was another
piece of it that, um, I foundthat that the 50 50 thing also
seems to sometimes reflect forwomen and obviously correct me
if I'm wrong reflect for women,like this self-independence.
That's different when, when yousay it's 50 50 or we're equal,
which is fine, and I'm trying toask the question the right way,
I guess I'm asking do you thinkthat when women who believe in

(12:17):
that 50 50 piece, do you believethat they bring an independence
to their relationship thatthey're trying to protect,
believe that they bring anindependence to their
relationship that they're tryingto protect, and because they're
trying to protect?

Speaker 2 (12:32):
that independence, that that is where that 50-50
piece comes from.
You know, I really can't answerthat.
To be honest, I think that, asfar as you know independence is
concerned, I think it'simportant for each person not to
lose themselves.
So you know, and then thatkeeps you from being really too
attached, right to the pointwhere you're clingy and it's
unhealthy.
But I do think it's importantfor each person to sort of have

(12:54):
their own, you know, hobbies or,again, income, whatever it is.
And so as long as you continueto maintain, I guess, your
identity while you're still sortof pouring into the
relationship or the marriage orwhatever it is, then I think
that's fine.
It shouldn't be a.
You know, I have to protect, soto speak, my independence

(13:15):
because I'm losing something bybeing with you.
It should be, you know.
Obviously I feel like with allrelationships there's going to
be some sort of compromise andthat's on both sides.
So maybe it is.
You know, I'm a girly girl.
So I like you know doors beingopen for me.
I like you know, I like tocuddle and things like that, you
know.
So in exchange for that, I'mgoing to bring my masculine

(13:38):
energy down.
You know what I mean.
I'm going to be femininebecause I want to feel like a
woman.
I want to.
I want to feel like a woman.
I want to.
I want to feel like a man isstrong and protected me.
You know what I'm saying.
So I do feel like you know.
With, with relationships again,um, there there is some, some
compromise, or there is a littlebit of give and take, but it
shouldn't be in order for me tomaintain my independence, so to

(14:00):
speak.
You know, it can only be 50,50,.
I'm only going to give so much,you know.
So if it doesn't work out, thenyou know I'm still good If you
get what.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
I'm saying While you were talking I just thought
about, wow, I don't recallpeople actually having these
type of conversations or talkingabout that expectation at the
beginning of a of a relationshipor when you start dating
somebody, what thoseexpectations look like when it

(14:30):
comes to where you see yourselfif you were to get into a
serious relationship.
You know, hey, I'm good withthis 50 50 thing, or I expect a
man.
A lot of these things are neverreally talked about until
there's a problem.
So it's just interesting thatis not contributing what the

(15:09):
other person thinks they shouldbe contributing in some shape,
form or fashion.
And then you know it's alreadykind of too late because you
already invested into thissituation, you already care
about this person.
So I just wanted to get yourtake on.
Do you think theseconversations are had from a
woman's perspective?

(15:29):
Do you think women are reallytruly having these conversations
with men, or are they reallyjust having them with themselves
?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
So I think that's why a lot of people talk about you
know, when you first get withsomeone, you meet the
representative.
You know what I mean.
Like they show you what theythink you want to see or they
don't want to bring up certainthings because they think you
know it's going to scare the manaway because we're being too
serious or whatever.
That again you want to see ifyou're on the same page with
someone, like you said,hopefully before.
You know now feelings areinvolved and then you know you
get to the point where you feellike you're settling.
You know because had you knownin the beginning, maybe the
relationship wouldn't have goneas far as it did.

(16:16):
You know because obviously youdon't see, you know you're not
seeing eye to eye certain things.
But yeah, I just again, I hopethese are conversations that
people have early on.
I think I can understand whypeople wouldn't, to be honest.
But then I do feel like, evenif you're not having a
conversation, sometimes yourinteractions with people can
show you the type of person theyare Like.

(16:38):
If you always go out and likethe female is always sitting
back, like you know, I'm justgoing to wait for him to pay,
you know, and she never doanything.
You know what I mean.
She's kind of telling youwithout telling you.
I expect for the man to doeverything.
You know I'm not looking for.
You know I don't expect to haveto give to you because you're a
man or you know, quite honestly, some females use men.

(16:58):
You know, I just want the freemeal or whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
But yeah, hopefully the conversation is had, but if
it's not, then hopefully payattention to the signs.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
But what do you think ?
I think that's a hardconversation to have when you
first meet somebody because,speaking about myself and
looking back on all therelationships I've been in and
looking back on all therelationships I've been in, I
did not know that I would haveto adjust certain things about
myself with each of those peopleto keep the relationship in a

(17:33):
certain place, like you'realways the authentic you.
But until you really know theperson you're with, you don't
know what changes you may haveto make or things you may have
to consider or check.
You know a man doesn't knowwhat areas or spaces he may have
to soften, or what areas orspaces that he did not
understand, that she needssomething more from him in that

(17:55):
particular space that maybe hisprevious partners didn't need.
You know what I'm saying.
So, like for like for you, tc,you were saying how you like to
cuddle when you're a girly girl,with that man has never had a
woman like you.
That might not have beensomething that he's ever really
had to pay attention to and helpfoster in that relationship
Right?

(18:16):
So and I'm not saying that's noteven a conversation you would
have a front, but it's hard totell a person like what you're
willing to bend or willing to um, to change for them, when you
don't know yet if they're worththose changes or worth those
those things for you to adjustto.
So, yeah, I think for me it ishard to tell someone that I'm

(18:39):
just meeting, these are mystandards, this is how I am, and
make it sound like absolutelythat's what it is, because the
fact is is that once we startrocking with each other and if
you're the person that I needyou to be, all those standards
might go out the door I will endup ending and and turning
things so that we work, and thatdoesn't doesn't necessarily

(18:59):
mean that I'm always who I waswhen we first met.
So you know what I'm saying.
So for me, yes, theconversation should happen, but
there's so many things thathappen once you get to know
someone that you don't know yet.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Right, right, I would say when I posed the question
it was really more so for women,because most women already have
that thought process in theirhead on what they expect.
I would agree with you 100%that men don't really know yet
because they don't know who thisperson is.
They don't know.
It's the same concept of youmeeting someone and a woman

(19:38):
saying I want to be a wife and aman not looking at that concept
in that way because he doesn'tknow if he's going to even fall
in love with a woman to be hiswife.
The woman has already have this.
The woman will already and, tt,you can correct me if I'm wrong
or you can disagree, but I feelthat a woman will will be so

(20:00):
forward thinking into somethingthat does not even exist yet,
will be so forward thinking intosomething that does not even
exist yet, ie a husband or agood man.
They've already have thesethings lined up in these.
Okay, I want a good man.
He's going to be making thisamount of money and he's going
to be doing these things.

(20:21):
So the question really stemsfrom that communication to that
person that you are feeling thatway about.
For men, I would definitelyagree.
I would definitely agree thatmen are more prone to wait till
that feeling is there and infront of them, whether it be

(20:43):
good or bad it could be.
You know what?
I am the type of man that iswilling to, to put it all on the
line for a particular person.
But you ain't that person,right?
You know and and and in thatand in that space, he should
definitely communicate that whenhe does have that thought
process that, hey, this is notgoing to work for me because I

(21:05):
am in a different space and Iknow what your expectations are.
But I think it's good to talkabout those things, especially
from for the women who do thinkso far ahead of what they want
and what they expect.
So I would agree 100 percent.
You know you can't really speakto those things yet because

(21:25):
it's not necessarily thatscenario.
The scenario hasn't presenteditself yet, it's not there.
For the man to look and say, hey, yeah, I'm this type of guy,
nah, I'm really not choosing you, then the woman will hold those
things against you as if youlied.

(21:46):
It's not that he lied, he justit's just, those things aren't
for you.
You know he changed his mind.
And the same thing for women.
You know it doesn't necessarilyhave to be a man changing his
mind.
A woman has that same right tochange her mind as her mind as
well.
So I just found it interestingand wanted to know do you think
women and that goes into thenext question Do you think women

(22:06):
are more prone to do that andhave that vision?
Way before you know, soonbefore you, even you know, you
may just meet the man and youalready have you know, I want
him to be this way, I want himto be that way, I want him to do
all of these things.
And what I'm saying is that ifyou communicate that he is going

(22:28):
to run or he going to stay, andif he stays it's because he's
he's probably checked off mostof the boxes that you have.
He's probably not going tocheck them all, but he's
probably can handle the thingsthat you check off.
So I just thought that was thatwas kind of interesting.
Do you think women are moreprone to have this vision, this?

Speaker 2 (22:54):
this vision of expectations like we're talking
about Absolutely.
I think you know um, as, as youknow children, you know most
most.
You know girls are taught to.
You know sort of you play withBarbie dolls or you know your
Ken doll or your baby dolls orwhatever, but you know you're.
You know girls are taught to.
You know sort of you play withBarbie dolls or you know your
Ken doll or your baby dolls orwhatever, but you know you're.
You're playing house.
You know what I'm saying.
Like you're preparing to be.
You know a wife you're lookingfor.
You know the knight in shiningarmor or whatever it may be

(23:16):
versus.
You know, you guys y'all havelike GI Joe and y'all tearing up
stuff, so y'all not thinkingabout being no husband.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
It wasn't no toys about being no husband Right.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah.
So I think you know definitelywomen.
You know that's the you knowmost of us, that's how we're
raised.
You know to be somebody's wifeor to be with someone, and I
think that's also, too, whereyou have a lot of you know women
now that are sort of you knowbuck.
You have a lot of you know, um,women now that are sort of you
know bucking the system, like no, I don't need a man to complete

(23:50):
me.
You know what I mean.
I can, I can do it on my owntype deal, but, um, yeah, I do
think women are more likely tobe on this.
Okay, if I'm spending my timewith him, this is going to be
long-term and you know, and ifit's going to be long-term, that
I need this, this, this, this,this I need these things right.
Mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Makes sense.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
You got something, though.
Yeah, I think what's evenbetter maybe to converse about
or to represent is to say I canbe these things, but it's up to
you to figure out if I can bethat for you.
Right, there you go.
So for like a, and I'm a speakfor women on a woman's side.
Right, if a woman lays out fora guy.

(24:30):
You know, this is the kind ofwife I can be.
This is, this is how I takecare of a man.
This is how I can take care ofa man, for when a guy hears that
, he's thinking he's that man.
So I think that firstconversation would be these are
all the things I could be.
This is the woman I could be,but it's up to you to show me
whether or not I can be thatwoman for you.

(24:51):
You know what I'm saying, and Ithink that's fair for a man to
do as well.
This is the kind of man I am.
This is the kind of man I canbe for the woman that I'm into,
but it's up to you to show mewhether or not that is the kind
of man that can be with you.
So having that generalconversation of who I am to
everybody I meet the first timegives the assumption that that's

(25:11):
who you're about to get andthat's not the truth.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right Because it puts the person in an accountability
phase Right.
Because, you got to earn itRight.
It lets you know that thosethings can only happen if I I'm
accountable for my actions andI'm consistent, right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
can I ask you guys a question?
of course go ahead do you thinkthat you know, going along the
lines of what you said then, doyou think that women are more
willing to be like well, youknow what he says.
You know this is the type ofwoman that he wants, so I'm
going to become you know all ofthat for him, because I really
want to be with this person.

(25:53):
Or do you feel that you know,men are the ones that are like I
really want to be with thiswoman so I'm willing to bend my
personal opinion?
I think women bend more thanmen, do you?
know what I mean, they'rewilling to sacrifice more or
settle more than men Like y'allare.
Just like.
You know what, this ain't theone I'm moving on.

(26:15):
You know what I mean.
So that's that's my opinion,but I want to hear what you guys
think.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
I would say a woman will be is more definitely more
prone to change who she is.
All together for a man that shetruly believes in and is in
love with.
She will, if she willcompromise her herself, and that

(26:39):
that's that's whatrelationships are.
Right, it is compromise, but Ido think men do it, I think
women do it in general and inrelationships, I think men do it
in marriage.
I think men would.
I think when marriage comes, Ithink a man will compromise

(27:05):
itself more because of theexpectations of marriage, and
that's a whole nother topic,right, that's a whole nother
thing.
But I just think in marriagethose things happen.
I would say more consistent formen.
But I think, yeah, I wouldagree that through my experience

(27:26):
and what I've seen, I've seenwomen, um, really change who
they are.
But at the same time, I you know, when you're talking about
today's society and where we aretoday, a lot of that is being
kind of thrown out the window.
You know that that concept ofeven compromising at all.
But I do think a woman willchange everything.

(27:49):
But the thing is that it's veryhard for a woman to get to that
point nowadays.
You know they are so skepticalof the man on every level.
It's a you have to, like yousaid, said you have to prove
yourself to me from day one, andif we're in that mind state at

(28:12):
the beginning, that would meanthe man would have to prove a
lot before you start changingwho you are as a woman.
But I'll let you go ahead andtake it.
I'll let you go ahead and takeit.
I want to hear what Dove got tosay.
Go ahead and take it.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I'll let you go ahead and take it.
I want to hear what dove guyssay.
So I think.
I think both men and women dothat when they are, when they
have a high level of respect andlove for each other, right.
So I think men and women cancompromise almost equally
because from a man's side andsomething we have talked about,
treyrey is that saying of happywife, happy life Right.

(28:45):
You know what I'm saying,meaning that you compromise
whatever you have to compromiseto keep your woman happy.
And I would say, for the mostpart, throughout history, men
have done that when they're atthe level, like you said, trey,
in a marriage or you're at thatrelationship level with the
woman that you're with, andtraditionally women have always
done that too.
Right.

(29:05):
To answer the maybe the first orsecond part of that question, I
think it depends on thegeneration.
I think older, oldergenerations go into
relationships more open minded,understanding that they may have
to compromise a few things forit to work.
I think newer generations feellike I don't have to compromise
a damn thing.

(29:26):
You're going to take me for whoI am and you're going to take
it or you're going to leave it,but I'm not changing anything.
You need to check all my boxes.
This is who I am.
I get an attitude, I do this, Igo out.
You're going to have to acceptme just how I am, or this ain't
happening.
So, honestly, I think it's ageneration thing, for both men
and women.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I agree with that as well, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
So where do you think men and women get the standards
or roles that they use to judgeeach other on how well they are
doing in a relationship?

Speaker 2 (30:03):
I think, obviously with most women, women it's
gonna come from their friends,um how well they're doing um I
don't know with with men.
Um, I'm trying to think.
You know I was funny answeringquestions for me and watch it
watch what?
You say watch what you say, Iknow right you heard, look you.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
You heard how she giggled when I said I'm going to
speak for women.
When I asked that one questionshe giggled like yeah, here he
go, Right Right.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Watch your mouth, you did good, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I would hope that you know with with men they have
some other male figure in theirlife that you know kind of told
them whether or not they weredoing well For my brothers.
You know, even my grandfatherit was you know my brothers, it
was my mom With my grandfather.
You know it was, you know hiswife and you know my grandmother

(30:57):
and his mom like it was alwaysa female also that kind of said
you know, if you're a man, youneed to do this, and that you
know what I mean.
Um, but yeah, I would hope tothink it would be another male
that they looked up to.
I think it should be anyway.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
So would you say that your biggest influence on love
and relationships came from yourgrandparents?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, reminds me they were married for 50 years
before they passed.
So, yeah, definitely they werethe most consistent relationship
that I saw.
So, yeah, definitely a lot ofmy views came from them.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
And another.
You alluded to your friends,right, women's friends, that
validation from friends.
Um, why do you think that is?
Why do you think women are, butfrom both ends, whether it's
the friend or the woman who isbeing evaluated, or valid or
validated.

(32:00):
Why do you think that is soprevalent in our relationships
today and in society, when itcomes to what women view as
important in the relationship?
Because it really has nothingto do with the man, it has
nothing to do with the man, ithas nothing to do with the
relationship and with the man.
But somehow this has alwaysbeen a barrier, an element, a

(32:24):
topic, an issue, and a lot oftimes there are people, there
are men, that have no clue thatthat, that influence or or those
, those things that we'retalking about are even even
being discussed.
So he, he's, he's already at aloss, he's already at a

(32:48):
disadvantage.
Um, so why do you think that isthat is so important for women
to have these influentialrelationships into their
friends' relationship?
If you, if you could, if youcould understand what I mean
when I say that.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
You know, I think you know we as women.
You know we love sisterhood.
You know, you know I thinkabout like.
You know, when you see moviesand you see women at the
barbershop and everybody's justtalking about what's going on
with everybody, you know what Imean.
Or you have, like just yourcircle of friends and people
that you confide in, and youknow you tell them everything

(33:28):
about your life, even thingsthat you know you feel like your
spouse wouldn't be interestedin knowing, or you wouldn't feel
comfortable saying it to them.
So I think that's just part ofour nature to to sort of want to
have someone that we talk toand confide in.
I do think, though, when itcomes to relationships,
unfortunately, that that's oneof the areas where you know we

(33:51):
as females, I honestly thinkthat you know you have to be
really careful about what yousay to your friends or even a
family members.
You know, in that case, justbecause you know you're giving
them your perspective on asituation, or the way that
you're evaluating that person orwhatever, and let's say it's a
negative perspective you knowyour family, your friends,

(34:12):
they're never going to forgetthat you may forgive the person,
you move on, but then theystill have in the back of their
mind what you told them aboutthis person.
I can also say and you know, Iknow my ladies are gonna be mad
at me but you also have somefriends that are jealous.
You know what I mean.
And so those are the friendsthat you can't really say things
to because they're always goingto hate on your relationship,

(34:34):
because you know really saythings too, because they're
always going to hate on yourrelationship because you know
they don't want I don't want tosay that they don't want to see
you happy.
It's just that you know theyhave their own issues that
they're dealing with and so theycan't see you happy.
It's not that they don'tnecessarily want to.
It's whatever's going on withthem.
I just personally think youknow, unless you got like that,
that one really close friendthat you know, that's that's not

(34:58):
really judgmental, that can beunbiased, that can really give
you like some solid, good advicemy recommendation is really not
to talk to your friends Justbecause, I mean, we're grown
women some things we just got tofigure out on our own.
you know what I'm saying andeverybody's relationship is
going to be different, you know.
And then you know again, mylady's going to be mad at me.

(35:20):
You also got some.
Would hope that you'recommunicating with the person
that you're with.
That's really who you should betalking to.
Real talk, right, but you know,like I said, a lady's going to

(35:44):
kill me for saying that, butit's the truth.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
You can't tell everybody what's going on with
you.
No, you was being honest withthat.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Do you think there's a need to be validated and
correct?
That plays a part into, maybe,why women confide in their
girlfriends, and maybe men do ittoo.
I say that from a perspectiveof when people tell a story,
they're always the victim of thesituation.
Nobody really goes into a storyand they really say what they

(36:13):
did to play a part in whatever'sgoing on goes into a story and
they really say what they did toplay a part in whatever's going
on, right?
So I'm thinking that a lot ofthat may have to do with the
person needing validation andbeing correct, right, like the
way I'm thinking is right andand the way I'm seeing the
situation is correct.
It may not be truthful, right.
They may, you know, somehowforget some pieces that they,

(36:35):
the roles they played in thesituation.
But you know, maybe there's thisneed to be correct and
validated, that the way theythink and the way they're
feeling, um, is the right path.
Uh, and men do that too, youknow.
That's just not a one thing,yeah, and I'm wondering if
that's, if that's a piece of it,I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Maybe you know what I mean, Like I could see.
I mean, I can think of a timewhen I had to make a really big
decision about a relationshipand I did, you know, go to a
friend that I trusted and said,you know, hey, you know, tell me
, you know, what do you thinkabout this?
You know, if you were in thesame position, how would you

(37:17):
handle it, type of thing.
So maybe sometimes it'svalidation, maybe, but I do
think again that you know itgoes back to what you said about
maturity.
You know what I mean.
If you're mature enough and youhold yourself accountable for
your decisions, then you have tomake that decision, so that if
it's right or wrong, it's on you.

(37:37):
You know what I mean.
I never want a friend to cometo me and be like, well, you
told me to leave him and youdon't and now blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
You know what I'm saying, like uh-uh, no, no sis.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
I'm not going to tell you to leave your man.
You know what I mean.
It's got to be your decision.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
You know, what I'm saying.
I don't want you on the bedcold, well yeah you just hit on
a another element of this makingdecisions.
You know, it's really, it'sreally that simple.
Sometimes a lot of people I'mnot going to say just women, but
women and men but I would say,if a woman is is unclear about a

(38:15):
man, for whatever reason, shemay go to her friend to help her
make that decision, whether itbe a good or bad decision or a
decision on how she shouldrespond to that man, because she
doesn't want to make that toughdecision and she needs somebody
there to help her make thatdecision.
I just don't like the fact thatthey seem to understand the man

(38:39):
.
Those friends seem tounderstand men so well and are
men experts.
And it just baffles me that youhear about these stories or
these things and it's just like,for example, you always hear a
woman say, oh girl, he not, he'sno good for you, he ain't no

(39:02):
good for you, that's not for you.
You know what I'm saying.
And then, and then years later,you see, you see them together.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
You see them two together, yeah yeah, but I feel
like.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
You know, guys, y'all do that sometimes too.
You know you have your friendsthat'll be like.
You know she for the street.
So you know, don't, just don'tfall in love with her, blah,
blah, blah.
You know, I mean I think itworks.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
It works both ways yeah, it does, because I tell
you what guys do.
What guys tend to do is they'lldefinitely find the man to give
them the response.
So they know that they want tohear Right.
So if, if, if a guy's aboutplaying games and he's about
doing whatever dirt he doing,he's going to confide in the
friend that he has that alsoagrees with what he's doing.

(39:48):
He's not going to confide inthe friend that he knows is
going to give him a differentperspective or answer, unless
he's actually trying to fixsomething or change.
So when men do that, men arevery careful with who they
confide in about theirrelationships and their choices,
because they don't want theadvice from the guy that they

(40:09):
know is living a differentlifestyle than they choose to
live.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Right.
I would agree with that I wouldagree with that because it's
about accountability right,unless he's trying to change.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
If he's trying to change his ways, then he'll
probably go to that, to thatfriend or that person he may
look up to.
You know what I?
I like the way this guy'shandling his business with his
relationships maybe his wife orwhatever.
Let me ask him about what Ijust did and see how to change
this or where I messed up andhow to fix it.
But if he all about playinggames, he's not going to talk to

(40:39):
that dude who is trying to befaithful, trying to do things
right.
He's going to go find a guywho's for the streets too, and
that's who he's going to get hisadvice from, because they're
going to think the same, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I definitely know some people like that.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yeah, that's what guys do yeah, and then also
experience.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
You know just experience.
You know people from, for menand women, you know, from a
man's perspective, for me it'sreally, it's really about the
experience someone, someone hasto have an experience that I'm
going through, that I haven'tthat, I haven't that I haven't
spoken to about, and to get thatadvice on how they got through
that particular experience.
You know, that's so I can learnand not necessarily take, not

(41:22):
necessarily take the same route,but find out the pros and cons
of what happened when thatperson, when that man made the
decisions that he made.
And then I can apply whateverthings that may be valuable to
me to make my decision.
But experience is key, I mean.
But I find it that a lot of usin these relationships are being

(41:42):
advised by people who just arenot qualified on no level,
mentally or physically.
They just not qualified toadvise you, not qualified to
advise you, um.
So you know, definitely payattention to um, you know who
you putting your information outto, because a lot of times that

(42:05):
that energy will come back andand put you in a worse situation
than you than you already in,because you know you follow
somebody.
You know the blind leading theblind kind of thing.
So you know, yeah, I just justthought that was interesting,
you know very much, so OK, yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
So next question what do you think men need the most
from women, most from women, andwhat do you think women need
the most from men?

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Ooh, I think men need respect.
Or I feel, like you know, menneed to feel like they have what
it takes.
You know what I mean.
So men need affirmation, theyneed respect, that sort of thing
.
They need respect, that sort ofthing.
I think, women, we needsecurity, like you know, to feel

(42:58):
like you know we're worthfighting for, we're special.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's myopinion.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
OK, and what do you think?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
is missing Because those.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Those seem to be very simple things in theory Right
To, to, to respect someone andto protect someone seem very
simple in theory.
Why do you think that mark isbeing missed?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
I think that you know it just depends on, like you
know, your different definitionsof respect or different
perspectives like your.
You know your differentdefinitions of respect or
different perspectives, like,for example, one thing I think
that you know women are big oneis, you know, feeling.
You know good, special feeling,love, that sort of thing, and

(43:49):
so because we, you know that'swhat makes us feel good, and
sometimes we think, well, that'sall y'all need.
We just need to tell y'all welove you all the time.
Just you know, give you allthese feelings Whereas it's
y'all we love you all the time.
Just you know, give you allthese feelings whereas it's
y'all.
You know again, I feel so badtalking about y'all.
Y'all are not really into thefeelings like that.
It's more of, I think, men feellike I'd rather you respect me
more than you love me, becauserespect is more than the
feelings.
It's you know.

(44:10):
Again, you know if, if I'm inyour presence, you know I'm
giving you my full attention.
You know I'm not telling myfriends about, you know,
personal things that need to goon between us.
I'm not embarrassing you ordisrespecting you in the public
by either the way that I'mtalking to you or you know I'm
flirting with another man orwhatever.
I think it goes along with you.

(44:31):
Know just your definition.
It goes along with you.
Know just your definition.
Whereas a female could look atrespect as well.
If I come home every day or Icook for you every day, I'm
showing you that I respect you,yeah, but then you know you
could be talking, talking to meany kind of way too.
That's not respect.
So I just think it can just be.
We look at the termsdifferently.

(44:53):
Same thing with, you know,feeling safe.
A man can feel like, well, Imay be flirted with this woman,
or I had an inappropriateconversation, but I didn't
actually sleep with her, so I ammaking you feel special.
You are safe you know what Imean Because I didn't.
You know, emotionally safe.
You're safe because I didn't goall the way.
But that emotional affair canbe sometimes more hurtful than

(45:13):
the physical affair.
So I just think it's the way,but that emotional affair can be
sometimes more hurtful than thephysical affair.
So I just think it's the waythat we look at the terms.
Maybe sometimes we look at ittwo different ways, and again
that goes back to thatcommunication.
How can I respect you?
What do you need from me foryou to feel respected or for you
to know that I think you'remore than enough for me, and

(45:34):
then, vice versa, I would likemy, would like them.
You know, my man asked me whatdo I need to do to make you feel
safe or to make you feelsupported?

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, I definitely would agree that respect is is a
major, and then for a lot ofmen that equates to love.
You know that respect, so Idefinitely would agree 100%.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Yeah so.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I definitely would agree 100 percent.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yeah, it's something you said about the communication
piece is that I've hadexperiences and I've seen
experiences where people thinkthey're doing enough and to hear
that what you're doing for meisn't what I need, even though
you think you're doing a bang upjob.
So, like the example you gave,a person's coming home, they're

(46:21):
cooking meals, they're doingthis and doing that and the
person they're with may not needthat from them.
That's a challengingconversation for people to have
to say listen, you're nothitting the mark.
And then the other person goingis well, I am hitting the mark
because I'm doing one, two,three, four, five.
And then I have theconversation to say, well,
technically I don't really needyou to do one, two and three, I

(46:42):
need you to do seven, eight,nine, right, like you want
something different from them.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, I don't think that should be a hard
conversation, though.
You know what I mean.
Like I get what you're saying,but I feel like if I love you
and I want it to work, then I'mgoing to say to you you know,
look, you know, baby, Iappreciate you doing X, y and Z,
but honestly, what I need isthis so can you, you know, if
you take effort away from doingthat and do this instead,

(47:07):
that'll be what really makes mehappy.
And then what do I need to dofor you in exchange?
You know what I mean.
So it's about I'm asking you todo something for me, but I'm
willing to do something for youtoo, because I'd rather have
that conversation than I'mstarting to resent you or my
feelings are starting to changebecause I'm not getting what I

(47:28):
want.
And I know sometimes we as women, we can do a bad job of
sometimes catching an attitudeor thinking you're supposed to
figure out that something's notright and I'm kind of like, no,
let me just cut to the chase.
I'm just going to say, look, Idon't feel good about this and
this is why I don't feel goodabout this, and what can we do
to change that?
What do you need from me, butit has to be a, not just a.

(47:50):
You need to change, you need tochange.
It needs to be.
Can you do this for me, butthen I'm also willing to do
something for you.
So you see that again.
That's that 100, 100, likeyou're doing something, I'm
doing something.
We're both in this versus againletting that bitterness build
up or that separation starts tohappen because someone feels
like their needs are not beingmet.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Makes sense.
Those are great answers, okay,yeah, yeah, yeah, she passed the
test.
She passed with a 70.
You got it.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
You passed it 70 is passing.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
That's barely 69.
A hard C we just messed up.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
He said a hard C.
You know that difficult c canmean more than that easy a you
know I'm saying no, no no everyday.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Your honesty is definitely valued, so I
definitely appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Yeah, um I appreciate that next question I got for
you and this is something thatwe've asked on some of our other
love and hate uh series for youwhat is it about men that you
appreciate the most?

Speaker 2 (49:02):
um, probably your strength, your um, resilience,
um, probably strength andresilience really really sort of
sums it up and and not justlike physical strength,
obviously I, I appreciate that,but you know also, you know I I
can't say I'd ever want to walkin the shoes of a, of a black

(49:23):
man especially.
You know what, what you guyshave to deal with, the
stereotypes, not just from youknow the workplace, but then
even, quite honestly, how othermen look at you, how women look
at you, even how other racessometimes view you.
It takes a lot of strength, Ibelieve, to be a black man,
especially a black man ofcharacter.

(49:43):
And then, with that being said,resilience you know what I mean
.
Like a lot of times, more timesthan not, you guys make a lot of
sacrifices because you knowthis is going to impact my
family or this is going toimpact my brand.
You know, because a lot of youguys got a lot of businesses and

(50:04):
things going on it used to beback in the day.
You know this is going toimpact my family's reputation.
So there's a lot of things thatyou guys then take, you know,
because you're like I just haveto bounce back, or I got other
people depending on me, or I gotto be a role model.
You know I got to set theexample, so definitely.
You know just your strength andresilience I think I appreciate
the most.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
And for the fellas that's listening what do you
think are some things that youwould want men to start
appreciating more in women?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, yeah, I think that sometimes men can
misinterpret women that comeacross as being really strong.
And it's not that women don'tneed men or they want men to
feel.
Like the way society is now,women have had to play stronger

(50:54):
roles and so, instead of notnecessarily being intimidated by
it or judging women by it, sortof start to appreciate women
that can be, you know, that canbe strong if they need to be.
Women are we're all different.

(51:17):
We're all beautiful in our ownways.
Women are we're all different,we're all beautiful in our own
ways.
So I think men shouldappreciate, you know, the
different elements of beautythat that women have, whether
it's you know, they choose to benatural, or you know even the

(51:38):
women that you know, feel likethey need a little help.
Appreciate them for that.
You know what I'm saying,because nine times out of 10,
they did it because they thought, you know, making y'all happy,
real talk.
But, you know, appreciate themfor their beauty, appreciate
them, that you know women canwear different styles and do all
kinds of stuff.
You know what I mean.
We're very we can adapt quickly, so appreciate that about women
, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I'm trying to make it even two things apiece.
It's your answer.
You could be as even and unevenas you want to be.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Absolutely Unconditional love.
Do you think?
Who do you?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
think displays unconditional love more men or
women, you know what.
So my initial response, or Ifeel like the right response, is
to say women.
Right, because it's easier forus, um, because, again, we were
just raised to be loving, youknow loving wives, and then you
know, you, we actually are theones that, um, give birth to
children, so it's easier for usto sort of feel loved.

(52:42):
But I will say again, likeseeing my brothers, seeing my
grandfather, even my father, theway that I've seen them love
and be vulnerable at times, Idon't know, it's gosh.
I've seen men do it, so I don'twant to say it's all women, I

(53:05):
think.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
I think men can display unconditional love too
you know, those men in your lifedisplay unconditional love, you
know, because a lot of people,a lot of people in today's
society haven't haven't reallyseen that, and if they have,

(53:27):
they're not vocal about it.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
So that's, that's really refreshing to hear yeah,
well, you know, I think nowadaystoo, a lot of people really
don't want to um embrace love.
You know what I mean, and youknow not to really get religious
, but you know, down in thesouth bible belt, you know what
I mean, and not to really getreligious, but down in South
Bible Belt, all we do is talkabout God.
God is love.
Why wouldn't you wanna displaylove?
But I do think that love is abeautiful thing.

(53:54):
You know what I mean.
Like it's when you can be themost vulnerable and recognize a
person isn't perfect, you know.
So you love them, even fortheir.
You know.
You love them for where theyare and for who they are, flaws
and all, and then they can seeyou the same way.
I feel, like in life, like somany people, like you know, they
can put on these facades orthese acts or, you know, try to

(54:16):
put on this tough face.
But when you love somebody, youshouldn't have to do that.
You should just be able to beyou without being judged and
knowing that they're going toappreciate every part of you,
just the way you are.
You know what I'm saying andalso wanting the best for you.
So, yeah, I think love is abeautiful thing.

(54:38):
I think so many people havebeen hurt based on past trauma
or relationships or whatever,and so people are afraid of love
.
But I think I think love isawesome in high school.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
You know I'm not going to date anyone you know or
whatever, but I'll just say,back when I was in high school,
love started to be a thing whereat least men was was kind of
skeptical of saying to aroundother guys.
It was like you love her butyou like what are you talking
about?
Man?
But that's that.
That comes from an immaturitything, as I said high school

(55:28):
right, and I say that because,moving forward to today, I feel
like grown men are starting toeven starting to think like that
way, like love is this toxicthing you should be afraid of
because it will hurt you.
Right, a lot of people are,like you just said, are just
scared to be in love withsomeone because they are scared
of the pain that could beassociated with being that
vulnerable to someone.

(55:49):
And something that I can saythat I have seen in some way
shape or form is I feel likethere are some parents who are
raising their children in a wayto sort of make them not
vulnerable to falling in lovewith someone, like they harden
them to the point where it'slike I've been through something

(56:10):
.
I don't want you to go throughit.
So I'm going to kind of instillthese values in you and these
characteristics I'm going topoint out and build on so that
you aren't this vulnerableperson, so that you don't love
so easily because I love someoneand it hurt and I don't want
you to go through that Right.
So I don't even think as asociety that we're even doing a

(56:31):
good job of teaching ourchildren and the younger
generations of how awesome loveis and how good of a thing it is
, and I think that goes back tosomething you also said is about
connecting love to God and thatreligious piece.
You know what I'm saying.
So everything you said I agreewith and I think a lot of those
things on all different levelsis what's missing.

(56:53):
It's what's causing that fearand causing the anxiety and the
questioning of, of, of that word.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah, those stereotypes, um, and a lot of
that is in our culture and a lotof different ways when it comes
to, you know, uh, upbringingthat time, those nineties where
we are today, the definition ofwhat manhood looks like, those
stereotypes of what a man is,you know, some of those things
probably.
I don't think love is even onthe top 10 of that list, um, and

(57:24):
it probably will be.
You know, sacrifice, selflesscourage, security, financial
stability, consistency, but Iwould definitely say love needs
to be, you know, somewhere atthe top.
Um, so, um, yeah, that's, yeah,that's, that's very, uh, that's
very interesting, good point Ithink love is there because love

(57:45):
drives those things right.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
I mean right.
So I think I think that list islove, so I don't think it
should be right in the list.
I think that drives.
I think that drives the list to.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I think I think it should.
I think it should drive thelist, but vengeance is real,
anger, anger and vengeance isreal and it could drive you to
have some of those things thatare on the list is everlasting

(58:21):
if it comes.
If you add that to that list,if you have that behind that
list, it doesn't matter whathappens to you.
Because of that love, you willbe able to still go forward in
those other aspects.
If something else is drivingyou, I think it's temporary,
it's a temporary feeling, it's atemporary thing.
Um, because, though, because youhave, you have to love yourself
in order to be able to achievethose things on that list, and
and if you have, you have tolove yourself in order to to be
able to achieve those things onthat list, and and if you and if

(58:44):
you love yourself, those thingswill remain prevalent in your
life until you you're no longerbreathing that pain and that
anger and that vengeance is a isa.
It's a temporary thing.
It's not going to.
It's not going to allow you to,it's not going to allow you to
have positive outcomes on thosethings that we list, on what a

(59:06):
real man could be.
You're going to fall short onsomething on that list.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
So love keeps that list consistent.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Yes, I would say so.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Yeah, because if we're talkingabout a particular thing and I'm
not angry about this thing, butthis other topic that I'm angry
about, it was pushing me tostay consistent because I want
to show this person over here,because I don't like this person
over here, I'm going to show upevery day and be consistent and

(59:38):
be intentionally consistent toconfront this person, but then
when you give me this otheropportunity on the right, I'm
tardy, I'm never there, I'm not,I'm not even involved or I'm
not doing anything thatresembles this thing that I'm
doing on the left.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
So that's because anger is driving what's on the
left.
That's right.
Yeah, great point.
Yeah, well, and I know beforewe chatted about, uh, you know,
the breadwinner and kind of howthat plays a role in
relationships, as some you know.
In some kind of way, if a womanis a breadwinner, does that
change the dynamics of therelationship?

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I think it depends on the woman, quite honestly, and
what they value.
There are some people thatvalue material things, or their
worth is tied into their incomeor what they have.
So if that is the mindset ofthe woman and she is the
breadwinner, then definitelyit's going to change the
dynamics of the relationship.

(01:00:38):
Because you know, now she feelsworthy or, you know, feels like
she's the stronger person in arelationship.
So then along with that couldcome the lack of respect for the
man.
You know, because she's thebreadwinner, or she feels like
she's the one that can be thedecision maker or you know she
can do what she wants to do.
Really, you know she doesn'thave to extend that courtesy of

(01:01:00):
saying this weekend I'm goingout of town with my girls
because you know I make themoney, it's my money, you know
what I mean.
I'm handling business, I can dowhat I want to do.
So I know there are some womenlike that.
It could change the dynamics ofthe relationship.
But then you know, I do feellike there are other women where
it doesn't matter.
I've been in relationshipsbefore where I was the red

(01:01:21):
winner, but I still felt like Iloved the person that I was with
.
I respected the person I waswith.
They're still trying.
It's not like they weren'temployed.
I was just in a better positionthan they were, and so that
didn't necessarily change thedynamics of the relationship.
We went out sometimes.
I still let them pay, you know.

(01:01:41):
I mean I'm not going to pay allthe time just because I make
the most money.
I would still let you paysometimes, but I'm still going
to do stuff too.
You know what I mean.
I'm not going to always think.
You know I didn't think it wasalways his responsibility,
especially when I knew I mademore.
So I don't think it shouldchange the dynamic of the
relationship.
It just depends on the person.

(01:02:02):
Quite honestly.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Yeah, so for the first woman, right?
The woman who you were sayingand I'm a paraphrase kind of
gets on a power trip because shemakes the most money, right?
In your opinion?
Why would that woman seek a manthat makes less money than her
if she's going to approach herrelationship in such a negative
space, right, with that type ofenergy, like I'm running the

(01:02:25):
show?
You think she finds that man onpurpose, that she chooses a man
that makes less money than heron purpose to maintain that
strength, versus finding a manwho makes more than her and
possibly feeling like she'schallenged similar to how
society believes men feel aboutbeing with women who make more

(01:02:46):
money, like we feel like we'relosing something or we have to
give up a piece of our quote,unquote dominance in the
relationship, right?
Why do you think she choosesthat man?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
You know, I think you know it depends.
It could be, you know, maybethey started off and he did make
more money and then lifechanged and you know she started
to make more money.
So maybe that wasn't her choice.
That's just how it happened.
But I do know some femaleswhere you know they want to be
the one.
You know they got to be a boss.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
You know what I'm saying, and so they want to be
in that position where they feellike a man can't tell them what
to do.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
The man is basically there, you know, for when they
need them physically.
You know what I'm saying.
So I know females like that too, you know.

(01:03:45):
I just again, it depends on theperson and what your intention
is and being in thatrelationship.
If you're looking for somethinglong-term, if you're looking
for love, you know, then theamount of money that you make or
he makes shouldn't determinewho's dominant and who runs the
relationship.
You know, I think everybodyshould.
Ooh, I almost said something.
My sister's going to get me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I should say everybody play their role.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
People just need you know whatever whatever, whatever
your relationship dynamic is,because that works for you guys,
it shouldn't change based onwho makes the most money.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
And this conversation is good because not too long
ago I made a point or gave aperspective about this alpha
male thing and how that word isattached to income.
That word is attached to incomewhere if a man is having a
conversation with a woman or agroup of women, he calls himself

(01:04:26):
an alpha male and then hedisposes of how much money he
makes.
And let's say he makes $25,000a year.
Right?
My interpretation is they wereprobably laughing his face and
say, bro, you're not an alphamale if you're only making
$25,000 a year.
His face and say, bro, you'renot an alpha male and if you're
only making $25,000 a year,versus a guy saying I'm an alpha
male and I make $400,000 a year, when the reality is that term
doesn't even have anything to dowith money, right?

(01:04:48):
So it's so interesting how manythings we attach to money when
it comes to dealing with eachother on a personal people level
and how much we allow money andincome to influence who we are
and how we treat each other.
I just find that fascinatinghow that, how that weaves into

(01:05:09):
pieces of fabric within therelationships you know in our
communities.
You know it's just andsometimes it's unconscious.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, and I think it has a lot to do with it's
unconscious, and that concept ofmoney equals power and respect
and a lot of other things, andyou find people not confronting
certain issues or not addressingcertain issues because that
person makes four hundredthousand dollars a year or

(01:05:37):
whatever.
They and that person may noteven know who he or she is as an
individual.
They may be a real personalstruggle with themselves.
They just they just verysuccessful in the business world
.
Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it'suh, it's interesting, but yeah,
money, money will give you atitle that you may not even be

(01:06:00):
deserving of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
You know, it makes me think of.
Well, I say Kanye, the, youknow, same Kanye, like the first
album.
You remember the song it AllFalls Down.
He's talking about, you know,because we're not used to having
nothing, that when we do havenow we're going to be flashy
with it.
You know we're going to go outand do all these things, buy
these expensive cars.
You know we're going to go outand do all these things, buy
these expensive cars, and Ithink you know some of that kind

(01:06:22):
of like what you were saying,trey.
It does have to do with ouridentity and how we see
ourselves, and so we equate thenmoney to our work and I feel
like money comes and goes, andso if that's your work or that's
all that matters to you, thenyou know that's that's.
That's a sad position to be in.
You know.

(01:06:45):
Same thing with relationships.
If you feel like you know your,your spouse or you know whoever
you're dating, isn't you knowmaking enough money at that time
, that doesn't mean that youknow they might not come up
later on.
You know what I mean.
Things could change.
Y'all can go into businesstogether.
Like you, you never know.
I never feel like money shouldbe the reason why you know
someone sort of considersthemselves to be, you know, a
high value person or, like youguys said, an alpha male, what

(01:07:07):
we're seeing here recently.
You know you got people withmoney that have integrity issues
and you know they're having.
You know I won't say any names,y'all know who out there, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
So money.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
money isn't doesn't make you an alpha male at all.
If you got all these otherissues going on, it's just more
money for you to make baddecisions with you know.
More money, more problems.
Y'all asked me about womenlooking for men.
You know they want to be thedominant person or whatever.
What about you guys?

(01:07:39):
Do y'all try to look for womenwhere you know you feel like you
you're the breadwinner, so thenyou kind of run things?
Do you think guys tend to tryto find women that are not on
the same level that they're on?

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
I think some men purposely would have a problem
dating or being with a woman whomakes more money than him.
That's a fact.
There are a good amount of menout there who don't know how to
handle that situation becausethey do assume, because they
make the most money, that thatmeans that they are in control
quote unquote of theirrelationship Right, like what

(01:08:07):
they say goes because they makethe most money.
And generally those type of mendon't value or look for women
who make more money than them.
That's a fact.
Now what I say men look forthat based on money I don't
think so Like completely.
I think say men look for thatbased on money, I don't think so
completely.
I think what men look for themost is where she is mentally
right.
So if a man is playing games,he's going to look for the woman

(01:08:29):
mentally that he can play gameswith.
If he's looking for a woman tobe his wife, possibly his mother
of his children, he's lookingfor a woman who is mentally can
meet that that level.
Because throughout history Iwould say that men have kind of
always played the role as beingthe provider in some way shape
or form.
So I don't think that's new forme it's not new for us to take

(01:08:49):
that role, because that'ssomething we've been taught
since day one is you are theprovider, so that's something I
think becomes natural for us.
Um, what we do with that isjust based on pretty much where
we are in life.
What are we looking for?
Are we playing games, or are weready to be with a, you know, a
mature woman who wants to gosomewhere and wants to grow and

(01:09:10):
wants to build?

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
I.
I would definitely agree withyou, dub, when it comes to when
you're talking about anintellectual man who has, has,
has experience and who reallyknows who he is.
Most men initially don't careabout none of that.
They just they want a womanthat they're attracted to and is

(01:09:32):
beautiful.
They may find out later on thatshe isn't mentally healthy or
she may have some mental issuesor she may have some financial
trouble, but I think that's howmen get into the predicaments
that they get into.
That's how they end up.
That's how these men in generalend up in situations.

(01:09:55):
Because at some point Men ingeneral end up in situations,
because at some point we did notdo the work and I think we all
have been there at some point,men in general we have not done
the work to really think aboutwhat we are looking for.

(01:10:23):
I think there's a, there's ananimalistic nature about us that
we initially start off with andonly the intellectual men who
can identify that and pivot awayfrom that and start having real
conversations about let me findout who this person is, let me
find out who she really is.
What kind of characteristics dowe align?
Do we have the same goals wheremost men, a lot of men stay

(01:10:44):
stuck in that phase.
They may talk and walk likethey're not, but they are
actually stuck in the firstphase of when they met that
woman.
It could be a year later, itcould be 10 years later, right,
they are still stuck in thephase one of not the phase one

(01:11:05):
of the relationship, that phaseof a man and his anatomy and his
physicality of just wanting toproduce, have sex.
It's a physical thing and andthat's just it, until you become
a little more wiser and youstart learning from your
mistakes.
Now you understand, when youmeet a woman at the bar, that

(01:11:28):
you should be having a littlebit more deeper conversation
versus what you're doing lateron.
You know, maybe some childsupport bills later, some kids,
a few three, four later, somebaby mamas, some slash tires.
Now, now you, you come into thetable a little bit different,
you know.
I do think that what Dove saidis is definitely on point.

(01:11:51):
I just think there's one piecethat a lot of men struggle with
and that's a maturity thing formen uh, overcoming that physical
, and some never, never overcomeit, but you need to at least
acknowledge it, you need to atleast know that it's there.
If you know it's there, thenyou can.
Then you can work through thatand really get to the substance

(01:12:14):
of meeting someone and being ina relationship with somebody.
But a lot of men just deny iteven exists and that's why they
end up with all kinds ofsituations.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Yeah, and I also think men as a whole.
We have to do a better job ofrealizing our value outside of
our pockets.
You know, even in society wherewe have a number of women that
judge men by how much money theymake, and that's what they,
that's what those particularkind of women place men in
certain categories.
What we have to do is notlisten to that and learn more

(01:12:50):
about ourselves and say this isthe kind of person I am and this
is what I bring to arelationship outside of money,
because those relationshipsdon't work very well.
If the only reason you're goingto respect me is because I make
more money than you, or the onlyreason you're going to not go
out when I ask you not to go outis because I make more money
than you, or I come home to ahot meal because I make more

(01:13:16):
money than you, if that's myexpectation as to why you are
the woman you are to me, thenthat says to me that I don't
know how to be the man for you,because I'm not being one,
because I'm basing everythingthat you're doing for me off of
the money I make and, like yousaid, I could lose my job
tomorrow, I mean or whatever itis right.
My income can change and and thechallenge that kind of man will

(01:13:43):
have is, in that situation, ifhis, if his income changes, he
is not going to know how tovalue him, value himself, and
he's going to fuck up theirrelationship.
Because you could still keepbeing the same woman, you could
still keep cooking his meals,giving him the respect, all the
things you were doing when hewas making all the money.
But the moment he loses that,he doesn't know how to respect

(01:14:06):
himself anymore and he's justgoing to, he's going to destroy
the relationship and it won't beanything you've done we have to

(01:14:27):
do a better job of realizingwho we are, what we are, and
step outside of that box of youknow what the numbers in the
bank account look like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
That's right, believe it or not, you look like an
idiot as soon as you open yourmouth.
If you don't really look in themirror and be accountable, I'm
just, I'm just letting you know.
When you come out and you saythings, it just doesn't add up.
It doesn't add up and you know.
Just have an accountability ofyour own mental and your own

(01:14:50):
mental health and yourcharacteristics.
You should, you should be.
If you have the resources to,you have the money and the
resources to get to put the workinto yourself, why not do that?
You know what I mean.
So, yeah, great question whatelse you got?

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
um, I think that was it honestly.
That's, that's probably it fornow great conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed your answersand your perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Thank you, I appreciate you guys having me on
here being able to share myperspective.

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
It's all good, we out , we out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Thanks.