November 13, 2023 • 29 mins
Are your D&D campaigns lacking that certain spark, that edge of unpredictability? Ever thought about giving monsters a larger role to play? We're here to ignite your imagination and show you how resistances, damage types, and multi-attack can all be used to create more immersive and exciting combat situations. We're taking the gloves off and critiquing the flawed CR system - and urging all you Dungeon Masters to pay more attention to resistances and damage when selecting your monsters. And remember, spread out that damage among the party! Because nobody enjoys watching their character get taken down too easily.
Let's sway away from the traditional and talk about the thrill of facing swarms! Imagine your players battling it out with locusts or bats, or even grappling with the effects of exhaustion and bleed. Intrigued? Good! We’re shaking things up a bit by discussing how smaller monsters and status effects can turn your encounters into complex, mind-boggling puzzles. And wait till we get to the part about transforming your low-level goblins into fearsome threats!
We're not stopping there. Ever wondered when exactly should a creature retreat or keep fighting in RPG battles? We've got you covered as we analyze creature stats, special abilities, and even their background and motivations. We'll be contrasting evil and heroic party combat strategies and chatting about the impactful role of monsters in steering your campaign’s narrative. Whether you're a seasoned Dungeon Master or a novice, we promise a riveting discussion that will leave you with a multitude of tips and insights to create more engaging and memorable campaigns. Your adventurers won't know what hit them!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Alright, so welcome back to episode 5 of DMI.
Today I really wanted to getinto the concept of monsters and
what ways we like to use themto kind of grow the campaign and
add a lot more attention todetail and a lot more immersion
for my players, because when Iuse monsters poorly it's a
horrible encounter and it's nofun for anyone.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The monsters definitely are one of those
things of people don't thinkabout it, but they have that
major role in how the campaignfeels, especially.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's really challenging because there are so
many good monsters in D&D thatyou really end up spending a lot
of time picking monsters, onlyto have like a five minute
combat and there's reallynothing you can do about that.
It adds so much to the game, sooftentimes I'll actually think
of some monsters that I reallywant to use before I even start
my first session.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Especially if you have an enemy or someone who's
going to be a consistent problemhaving something that's related
to him or like, even if it'slike you have a wizard who's
messing with nature, havingthese like animals or something
coming at the party notnecessarily because the wizard's
sending them there, but justbecause something's off can help
theme that world a littlebetter and make sure it makes
(01:08):
sense Obviously themingsomething that we could go into
for for hours, and I'm sure wewill very shortly here.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
A big thing for me and this is a lesson I learned
very early in my D&D career waspaying attention to resistances
and damage and not the CR.
I mean, we've mentioned itbriefly in a couple of episodes,
but CR is probably the mostmessed up system in D&D.
I don't know if you agree withthat, but that's definitely my
opinion.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I don't look at the CR for a reason, because I know
it's just not going to work outtoo well.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I mean there are CR half monsters that can TPK a
level five party pretty easily,then with how the system's set
up, that should be basicallyimpossible.
Well, the thing that I think iscrazy is CR bases it off of how
much XP you're supposed to begiving them more than your party
, at least versus how manyresistances these monsters
(02:00):
actually have.
And resistances at early levelsaren't a major deal, but later
in the game, when your party hasresistances and the enemies
have resistances, it can make itrather challenging.
But in early game really, youdon't have that much variety in
your damage unless you're like awizard that has Chromatic Orb.
Chromatic Orb is a really greatspell because it lets you go
past, but if it has a resistanceto magic it's kind of rough for
(02:21):
that source or to even get somevery damage.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, and like, if you're playing a like fire
wizard or something like, who'sonly going to be using fire in
this one damage type becausethat's their thing, especially
at those early levels, if youput something that's like just
immune to fire or resistance tofire, not thinking about it, it
causes those.
That player then doesn't feellike he's in the game anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, and that's why actually the first thing that I
check whenever I'm deciding amonster for my campaigns is I
actually go through and I checkthe resistances first.
So I think the most importantthing that you need to consider
when you're trying to make acombat more challenging for
players is multi attack, whenyou're doing a single monster
(03:04):
against a whole group of peopleit's no fun if they can only
take one action per turn, unlessit's going to be an ungodly
amount of damage.
And even still, I feel like alot of small hits feels better
than a couple large hits,because you're less likely to
hit a single person and sendthem down.
Because if you lose a singlemember of your party, combat
becomes really quite challenging.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know, like in some of those crit, like for the
look of the multi attacks, someof those monsters who have
three or four attacks also justare devastating, but then you
only put that there.
So those attacks are going toreally important for how that
combat is going to feel.
One creature with like four orfive attacks like a dragon or
something is going to be.
You don't need anything elsethere because you already have
(03:46):
four attacks coming at the partyevery single turn.
But if you have, you know, likefive, six goblins or something,
they're only going to stab one,for example, those astral elves
that I use in cosmicinspiration hit they can target
all of their damage because theyonly get one or two hits per
turn.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
They hit your character twice and they're
running that radiant damage.
They burst you down superquickly.
Then the turn economies in thefavor of the monsters.
So I feel like multi attack isa actual, really good way to
balance early level campaignsbecause you can kind of spread
out the damage amongst yourparty.
You're much less likely to justknock someone down and put the
turn economy in the favor of themonsters, which is very
important.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and especially early, because you don't have,
you know, your 27 ACs and theselike ridiculous high levels.
Yet Having a lot of smallthings like hitting, it's like
if you're gobbling three attacksbut he's adding nothing, it's
gonna make your tanks feeltankier.
Your damage dealers feel thatmore like they do more damage
Even though they're not doinganything more or less than they
should be.
It just feels more satisfyingfor those players to actually
(04:42):
Experiencing, especially withlike a boss.
The first person going down isgoing to most likely be your
tank or one of your big damageDealers, which then means
everyone else is eitherVulnerable now because you don't
have you a hundred health wall,or not gonna get the boss down
because your hundred damage youturn from your wizard isn't
there anymore.
You got to spread the love ofdamage to every single member of
(05:06):
the party.
Is that is a everyone?
Because, like your wizardobviously is only gonna have
like 12 hit points or somethingsilly.
So unless your wizard is divinginto the frontline, don't blow
them up, because then that was,it's just gonna be.
Oh, I'm sitting here whileeveryone else is playing.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, and actually my my favorite mechanic actually
does a really good job atSpreading out that damage.
I personally am obsessed withthe swarm mechanic.
I really think it's a fun traitand I don't think it is common
enough in D&D.
I think it's a unique idea thatyou could have like a whole
horde of bats coming at you andrealistically, as a DM, it's
actually easier to managebecause of the fact that you can
just roll one attack, die andhit for 8% of this large swarm
(05:48):
that's coming at them, whetherit's rats or bats or something.
Something low-powered that youcan have a lot of it Kind of.
It feels very interesting whenbats are like coming and
swooping down on the town andthat's not something that you
see as much in D&D.
I feel like I don't know, haveyou seen that pretty commonly?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
The I haven't.
I haven't had any DMs use it.
I've used it before.
I had a.
It wasn't like a tiny guy, butI did a zombie as a swarm, which
I felt was more fitting forzombies because they tend to
just mob In like most media.
So if wanted to do something alittle different than just
there's 10 zombies, go fightthem.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, and I like that idea.
My issue with doing it waszombies is.
I like having something alittle smaller.
I want the undead to feelreally scary like.
If I'm using an undead it'sbecause I'm trying to scare you.
That's why my undead arehardcore.
But, um, I would like toreiterate, my undead are very
much homebrew.
They follow them a lot morealong the lines of old D&D For
(06:47):
those who know what old D&D waslike.
But for first, swarms, I lovethe idea of using bat swarms
attacking a town, because let'stalk about real-world issues Are
you constantly gonna be havingto have your adventurers bail
you out from an orc raid?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Not, you're not gonna have those big raids every time
and having just we're goinginto another cave, there's
another horde of goblins orcobalts or something.
Just gets boring after a while.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, and like Realistically you could
technically do a swarm mechanicfor a locusts, which I think is
a really fun idea for a campaignis the all these locusts are
coming at this town.
They're killing the town.
Your first adventure could beliterally helping the
townspeople and the farmers Keepthese locusts off of them.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah and then like, with some of that you can also
pull that into being making it,so your heroes aren't starting
off the bat as these grandioselike Herculean feats of we
defeated a dragon, we defeatedthis massive thing, but we saved
people, which is what, for atleast a good number of places,
what they kind of want.
They want that the little guytaking on something too big but
(07:53):
just starting on the too bigwithout anything scaling up
towards it kind of feels justunsatisfying for it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And I would say there's.
There's definitely some thingsyou can do in the early level to
make it feel a lot moresatisfying, because your Players
a lot of them, unless you have,like that evil player that just
wants to cause chaos they wantto be a hero like.
If you want to be a folk hero,easiest way to do it is go save
the village from it, from asmall disaster.
It doesn't have to be major,and I think that's where even I
(08:22):
sometimes fall into this trap ofoh my god, you have to go and
fight off a whole bandit camp atlevel one or two.
Good luck, rather than just.
Bats have been swarming yourtown lately eat, or Locusts have
been coming in and eating allof the food and you have to go
in and repel them and if youhave a druid, that can be a
really great time for them toshine those Because, tip,
(08:44):
oftentimes you need to start aquest somewhere and when
whatever, especially if it's asmaller area and you're not in
like the big city of whateversetting you pick.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
The like bartender who ever is just giving you
quest information isn't going tojust have off the rip.
Well, here's 12 bandit campsfor you, it's gonna.
Be well, this is a problemwe're facing.
If you want to go help dealwith it and stuff like that, the
locusts or the bats can kind offit that Smaller adventure feel
, while still being somethingsignificant to the world now
(09:18):
with smaller monsters,especially later levels.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I do enjoy using them and a way that I oftentimes
will bounce them, as all tossingstatus effects like bleed
exhaustion, paralyzes thingsthat are relatively devastating
into my damaging abilities.
Which of those do youpersonally think is the scariest
?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
because I know what I think would be the most
terrifying so for the likestatus effects, I always find
that the ideas of thesecreatures Making the party tired
and exhaustion one of those itfits because you're not going to
be fighting to go, I'm gonna befighting like 20 goblins or
something silly and by thatpoint, just by the sheer number
(10:00):
of times you're swinging yoursword or casting your spells,
you're gonna start getting moreand more tired and each goblin
is gonna feel like a bigger featto fight than the last.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So, like that exhaustion level can be one of
the not necessarily scariest butmost impactful for the See for
me as a player, the one that Ifind the absolute most
terrifying and I try to avoid asmuch as possible is I am
terrified of bleed.
Bleed in paralyze are the twomechanics that I think.
(10:31):
If you toss them on a spell oran ability for a monster, you
could take a wolf which is what?
If I remember correctly, a CR1or 2 monster, something super
low.
And if you give a wolf bleed onits claw, attack.
I don't care if you're a level8, character 8 fighter.
You're gonna be afraid becausethat's gonna compound and that
(10:52):
taking damage can really bequite devastating.
Paralyze is the one that Iwould say, though, is far worse.
Anytime you're being paralyzed,it's nearly impossible as a
tank, because if they paralyzeyou, they just go around to the
magic casters.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, and especially if it's not just a unintelligent
like wolves might just if theycould paralyze you jump on the
thing that's not moving and takeit out of the fight.
But if something more like aliches horde or something like
that, that's going to have somesemblance of planning and like a
method, they are just going toignore the tank.
Now it's out of the picture,it's out of that picture form.
(11:27):
So why wouldn't they just go atthe thing that's still shooting
them with arrows or magic?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And I would say one that you can add paralyze to.
That's kind of scary is you cangive goblins like a lightning
sword or a staff where they canfire these kind of electrical
things, and it adds a lot,especially if you have that be
like a magic item that thegoblins stole.
The only fear with that then isthose goblins are more
(11:54):
intelligent than a wolf and theymight just be intelligent
enough to shock down the tankand run behind the wizard and I
play mostly spellcasters.
I am going to be begging for mylife if that's happening,
because I need that tank.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and while I tend to be play evasive
characters who would just, youknow, either like Misty Step or
something to get out of thosepositions, they're not going to
be the ones who are targeted,because they're going to be like
just a warlock shooting, aneldritch blast at them or
something small like that, asopposed to your devastating
casters whose whole plan is todevastate the enemy and by
(12:30):
giving those goblins theopportunity to like steal from
someone, it also can increasetheir threat or build into
whatever world you want them tobe in, as a plot device of oh we
beat up, we beat these goblinsnow, and oh, they had this magic
sword.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Who's was it?
Yeah, and I would say for me abig thing that I want to mention
and this is actually more of aquestion because I've done a lot
of talking Do you start offright, picking your monsters or
planning your encounter Like doyou build the encounter on the
monsters or the monsters aroundthe encounter?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
So for me that depends on what the it's
dependent on what theencounter's purpose is.
If it's a like just story,usually that encounter is going
to build whatever the enemiesare.
But if it's like supposed to beyour big fight or some feat
they have to surpass.
the monsters are what matter inthat situation.
(13:25):
So, like if you're in a townand for a campaign I've been
working on, there's a spot wherea bunch of people are attacking
a town to force the party to gosomewhere.
For the plot reasons, thoseenemies as individuals aren't
going to be doing much, but theyare there and they are going to
be kind of overwhelming,whereas somewhere else, where
(13:46):
the enemies are what matters andnot as much of the setting
anymore, each of those enemieshas a role to play in the fight.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And I'll say like straight up, I usually actually
plan.
I plan my setting first andthen after that I will actually
plan my monsters, before I planmy encounters.
Because what I like to do is Ilike to find monsters that I
find interesting and I thinkwould be rewarding for my
players to fight against, andthen, once I have made those
decisions as to what I want myplayers to fight, I will
(14:16):
actually go and sit down andI'll find, I'll research what
kind of layers they like to livein, where they like to be, so
that my players can actuallyfight it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
and it be more of a realistic situation, yeah, but
especially if you, I tend to gofrom like what I want the theme
and plot to be and then down tothose encounters and what my
major story beats are going tobe.
And by picking that theme oflike, if I'm doing a fan like
high fantasy the gods areimportant type of campaign,
they're going to be thesemythical monsters, just based on
(14:48):
the nature of where we are inthe world, but then like, for
instance, just a kind of classicexample of the world, down to
what I want my story beats are.
So if I'm doing like a highfantasy, something with, like
the Greek gods, I'm going to be.
If I want something like agiant feet, I'm going to be find
something that's interesting.
(15:08):
So either like a sphinx, for,like a Greek theme, a minotaur,
and the minotaur always is in alabyrinth.
So then either that minotaur iswhat matters in that labyrinth
or it's the labyrinth itself forwhat the plot needs to progress
through.
So if the goal is get throughthe labyrinth to the other end,
then the minotaur is second.
(15:29):
But if the goal is to fight themonotaur and defeat it, then
that's what matters for thatencounter to me.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So is your goal usually to focus more on the
combat or the story.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So I want my, if I want.
The story is always going to bewhat matters the most in any
situation, but I want the combatand the encounter to be
interesting.
It's not fun to play a campaignwhere you're just charging into
a horde of enemies over andover and over again.
But having those encounterswhere sometimes your goal isn't
(16:06):
necessarily to even fight theenemy If you can just get past
them through this checkpoint orwhatever, that's what matters in
that encounter and it makes ita little more dynamic than just
the monsters fighting.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question.
If you were to give a new DMadvice on Testing their homebrew
monsters, what would it be sofor the homebrew monsters.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What I've always done is I kind of just throw them in
and I'm like, oh, this is aninteresting idea, we'll see how
it goes, and then I modifyduring it, which is a little bit
of like just knowing how thecombat needs to move.
So if you have, like a newenemy that you're trying to
build and he's kicking the party, you can include something to
(17:00):
make that enemy either step back, back off.
You can always just like theeasy one, which, whether or not
it's fun, is a up to your owninterpretations is the classic
cutting the health.
Oh, add 200 now has a hundredhealth because the party wasn't
hitting it enough, but kind ofputting those little pieces of
you get, you have to test itsomehow, and especially if it's
(17:23):
a plot monster, you don't wantthe party to know it's coming to
them necessarily.
So you can't unless you havetwo groups, and then you can
test with one group and put iton with the other, which is, you
know whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But that's actually closer to what I prefer to do.
I actually run fight nights,and so I have a large group of
D&D players where I'm luckyenough that I can say hey, I'm
gonna grab the four of you,let's do a fight night and I'm
gonna toss my homebrew monsterthat I want to test in mid
midnight while they don't Knowit, and then later, like a week
or two later, my actual campaignwill receive it, and Usually
(18:00):
they are not pleased when theyreceive something that is a
monstrosity.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have never been gifted enough to have like
enough people to do that with,so what I end up doing is
especially find some coolmonster, and especially in like
three five there was a lot ofreally cool high-level homebrew
was I would do something similar, it was just be build the level
20.
We're gonna fight a kid, nottonight and we'll see how it
goes and then, if I want to,later I can, having already now
(18:28):
fought other than kidna, includeit and modify it, weaken it
down a bit, so it's more fittingfor whatever point we are at
well, a Major point incontention for me and how we use
monsters is my favorite monsterand the thing that got me into
Dungeons and Dragons was dragons.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I absolutely loved the concept of a dragon and I
actually Greatly disliked how 5edoes dragons, and the reason
for that is until fizzbanstreasury of dragons came out,
they were so one-dimensional.
I mean, if you go to curse atthe dragon horde, there is a
dragon in there who is A whitedragon, that is a named dragon
(19:13):
that has a spell in fizzbanstreasury of dragons Named after
it that I sent you a picture ofthat when I found that last
night.
That thing is insane.
It can capsulates everyone inice and move sets their movement
to zero.
It has no spells in Horde ofthe dragon queen and I greatly
disliked that fact that I feelalmost like we have gutted the
(19:35):
undead and dragons and beholders.
There's too much from previousgenerations like before.
They were definitely too strong, but now they are way too weak
and that is my, my stance.
What's yours?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think Dragons because of how well ought not
well, but like often they'reseen in just everywhere they
were going to be toned down alot to make them fit wherever
you want them to.
You can just plug a dragon insomewhere, but it does kind of
detract from the full experienceof like fighting this giant
(20:14):
monster that's out to Hunt youdown or kill you, especially in
the horde of the dragon queenwhere, and I think like the
first third of it, there's notreally a dragon big dragon
encounter that you have.
Like I know there's a likeswamp dragon out that you can
see, but there's no likenecessary, necessarily like
(20:39):
actual dragon fights.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, most of that comes in the rise of TM at,
which is the, the sequel, and Iwill say dragons are Like really
.
I'm gonna be doing a bookreview of fizzman's treasury of
dragons over on our YouTubechannel, cuz I think it is such
an impactful book.
I think it's really wellwritten because of the fact that
it gives a lot of really goodadvice on how to build, play and
(21:04):
create dragons that aremeaningful, as well as giving
some really terrifying and funSpells and feats that you can
use for them.
That will just absolutely blowyour party away and it's gonna
feel less like a Dr.
The game is named after dragons.
Like, fighting a dragon shouldnot be a minor effect, just like
(21:26):
fighting an undead zombieShould not be an everyday
encounter.
That should be something thatis truly meaningful.
That's my stance on it and I Ireally don't know how many
people kind of share mymentality.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I think the I think the especially dragons on undead
have been toned down a lot fromwhere they were before with
their Threat level and how scaryit was to see them.
But I do also think it's usefulfor them not to be as bad,
because a Undead who just isgoing to sap your life slowly
(22:02):
through non-traditional means isone of the scariest things
possible and that could havebeen worked to still exist in
this the world.
But not one shot your, yourwizard, for not being strong.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and when you're , when you're using your
monsters for your thing, I thinka big question for you should
be how intelligent is themonster?
Are we planning to have it kindof Rationalized losses, or is
it a creature where, when thingsstart to get hard, they're
running away?
And at what point?
Honestly, if you were to likeput a number value on it, what
(22:41):
level of intelligence would theyhave to have before they start
rationalizing losses like humansdo in wars?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
so, realistically, any animal, even like a wolf or
like coyote, any of those, evensmall animals, will Rationalize
at some point.
It becomes no longer worth itfor them to even try to fight
With like and this is just innature, the way I like squirrel
is gonna get away from a snakewho the squirrel has no way to
(23:11):
fight back.
The squirrel just jumps aroundand makes it not worth it for
the snake to put any more effortin, because it's only there for
food.
It's not going to sit aroundwhile its food is running away
from it, because it just becomestoo much of a hassle to go for
it.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So my question is at what point did we tip over from
being more animal, like whereour, our monsters are saying
this isn't worth it, it's toomuch energy versus?
I have a noble cause and I willfight till the death for that.
I'm willing to throw at youanything to make sure this
happens, because liches arethere and Humans are there.
(23:54):
But like what let?
If you were to attach a numberfor a stat block, what number
does it kind of flip to thatkind of mentality where they can
have these real strong goals?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
So I don't think there's like a strong number for
it.
It's To me at least, it'scontextual to what is it like a
human fighter like, even at thisany level, it's going to have
less conviction to Hunt someonedown and kill them than a oath
of vengeance paladin, like itjust depends on what their Whole
(24:28):
deal is really and there's nogood way to like measure that.
But it's a to me at the way, tofigure out at what point should
these enemies either flee, golike go, or continue fighting is
.
Can you, as the DM, rationalizein that situation Continuing
(24:52):
this fight?
So like if you have a hyperreligious who are like we're
murdering every single wizardand they actually believe that
Wizards are evil, they're notgoing to back down from a wizard
, they believe those wizards arethe end of the world, whereas
just a random grunt Is gonna seea wizard who's just blew up a
(25:14):
platoon and go, turn around andbe like, nope, not dealing with
this today.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So If you're going to be in a situation where your
party needs to get out of thefight, are you?
Which are you gonna have happenfirst?
Are you going to make yourparty run away?
Are you gonna make the monstersrun away?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
That's a hard one to answer, but I think if the
monster is able to Get out ofthis situation, especially if
it's not an intelligent monsterit is most likely going to be
the one who has to leave,whereas the party the party
(25:53):
should never feel like they haveto flee an enemy because it's
too scary, like, obviously, likethere's things where it's like,
oh, you have a dragon pushingthem towards a thing To,
whatever the next plot hook is,but at that, for those levels,
it's not really a Threat as muchas it like the dragon yes, if
they are stupid and charge, itis going to eat them but it
(26:16):
doesn't feel like this thing isa threat as much as it's like
it's a wall that's slowlypushing me somewhere okay, yeah,
because for me I would say itreally depends on the mind
counter.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
If my players are fighting other humans, they're
fighting against a nation or atown I'm gonna make them run
away because, especially ifthey're trying to like, for
example, if I'm running an evilcampaign and they're trying to
force the villagers out of theirhome, they're gonna fight and
they're gonna stand and fight.
And if they're about to beTPKed, it's on them to run away.
And usually when I have thosesituations where I'm making my
(26:51):
players run away, I Don't allowmy NPCs to make Opportunity
attack rules as my playersretreat.
I think that's the better wayto use the monsters and bend the
rules to keep my party safe.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Because if the party, just you know, attacks a
village and then all die becausethey attacked a village and
didn't just and Tried to escape,in most situations those, those
villagers, aren't out for blood.
They're just trying to keep youout of their house.
As soon as you're not in theirhouse, they're just gonna say,
well, hope they're not gonnacome back.
We'll put up some walls, makeit harder.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
They don't.
They realistically don't wantto come after you.
They that's so much work forthem.
That being said, they mayrelocate, but I think in those
settings it's I would ratherhave my party be the ones to
step back a lot of the timesespecially in the evil.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I think if you're going down the evil parties type
of roots especially, it's theon the party to be the ones to
back off, just because of thenature of how that Dynamic is,
if you're in a evil campaign,your party is never going to be
the ones like defendingthemselves.
They might be if, like, aheroic party comes and is trying
(28:00):
to fight them, but then you'rean evil party, you're going to
hunt them down.
That's just how it goes,whereas if you're the heroes and
you're trying to defend a place, the monster should be the ones
to flee, almost because they'rethe ones attacking and You're
just pushing them away.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, and I think I think that's a pretty safe way
to do it.
And if I had to, if a new DMwas to come up to me and ask
that exact same question, myanswer would be I usually have
my attacker be the one to leave.
If your party is the oneattacking, they should be the
ones to flee, whereas if it'sthe enemy, you're gonna flee
back to where you are safe ifyou're in a bad situation, and
(28:43):
that's why I would say thatwould be the best way to do it,
especially for the people wholistening, who are looking for
advice on how really to runthese Encounters.
Make sure that you focus onhaving your Enemies and or your
players retreat to where theyfeel safe.
If they don't feel safe wherethey're at, they should be the
ones to flee, not the ones thatare in the home field.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
There are ways you can switch that up a little bit.
For this one I mentioned alittle bit earlier, I have a
campaign that opens with anattack on a town to move the
party.
The party isn't living there.
They're not gonna feel safe inthat position, even though
they're being attacked, they'regoing to be the ones to leave
because they're the ones whodon't have the strength there to
(29:28):
actually hold that space.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
All right, and with that we finished off our topic
for today.
Thank you everyone who listened.
If you enjoyed our podcast,check out the rest of our
content over on our YouTubechannel or our website.
Other than that, have a greatrest of your day and we will see
you next week.
Alright, so welcome back to episode 5 of DMI.
Today I really wanted to getinto the concept of monsters and
what ways we like to use themto kind of grow the campaign and
add a lot more attention todetail and a lot more immersion
for my players, because when Iuse monsters poorly it's a
horrible encounter and it's nofun for anyone.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The monsters definitely are one of those
things of people don't thinkabout it, but they have that
major role in how the campaignfeels, especially.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's really challenging because there are so
many good monsters in D&D thatyou really end up spending a lot
of time picking monsters, onlyto have like a five minute
combat and there's reallynothing you can do about that.
It adds so much to the game, sooftentimes I'll actually think
of some monsters that I reallywant to use before I even start
my first session.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Especially if you have an enemy or someone who's
going to be a consistent problemhaving something that's related
to him or like, even if it'slike you have a wizard who's
messing with nature, havingthese like animals or something
coming at the party notnecessarily because the wizard's
sending them there, but justbecause something's off can help
theme that world a littlebetter and make sure it makes
(01:08):
sense Obviously themingsomething that we could go into
for for hours, and I'm sure wewill very shortly here.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
A big thing for me and this is a lesson I learned
very early in my D&D career waspaying attention to resistances
and damage and not the CR.
I mean, we've mentioned itbriefly in a couple of episodes,
but CR is probably the mostmessed up system in D&D.
I don't know if you agree withthat, but that's definitely my
opinion.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I don't look at the CR for a reason, because I know
it's just not going to work outtoo well.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I mean there are CR half monsters that can TPK a
level five party pretty easily,then with how the system's set
up, that should be basicallyimpossible.
Well, the thing that I think iscrazy is CR bases it off of how
much XP you're supposed to begiving them more than your party
, at least versus how manyresistances these monsters
(02:00):
actually have.
And resistances at early levelsaren't a major deal, but later
in the game, when your party hasresistances and the enemies
have resistances, it can make itrather challenging.
But in early game really, youdon't have that much variety in
your damage unless you're like awizard that has Chromatic Orb.
Chromatic Orb is a really greatspell because it lets you go
past, but if it has a resistanceto magic it's kind of rough for
(02:21):
that source or to even get somevery damage.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, and like, if you're playing a like fire
wizard or something like, who'sonly going to be using fire in
this one damage type becausethat's their thing, especially
at those early levels, if youput something that's like just
immune to fire or resistance tofire, not thinking about it, it
causes those.
That player then doesn't feellike he's in the game anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, and that's why actually the first thing that I
check whenever I'm deciding amonster for my campaigns is I
actually go through and I checkthe resistances first.
So I think the most importantthing that you need to consider
when you're trying to make acombat more challenging for
players is multi attack, whenyou're doing a single monster
(03:04):
against a whole group of peopleit's no fun if they can only
take one action per turn, unlessit's going to be an ungodly
amount of damage.
And even still, I feel like alot of small hits feels better
than a couple large hits,because you're less likely to
hit a single person and sendthem down.
Because if you lose a singlemember of your party, combat
becomes really quite challenging.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know, like in some of those crit, like for the
look of the multi attacks, someof those monsters who have
three or four attacks also justare devastating, but then you
only put that there.
So those attacks are going toreally important for how that
combat is going to feel.
One creature with like four orfive attacks like a dragon or
something is going to be.
You don't need anything elsethere because you already have
(03:46):
four attacks coming at the partyevery single turn.
But if you have, you know, likefive, six goblins or something,
they're only going to stab one,for example, those astral elves
that I use in cosmicinspiration hit they can target
all of their damage because theyonly get one or two hits per
turn.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
They hit your character twice and they're
running that radiant damage.
They burst you down superquickly.
Then the turn economies in thefavor of the monsters.
So I feel like multi attack isa actual, really good way to
balance early level campaignsbecause you can kind of spread
out the damage amongst yourparty.
You're much less likely to justknock someone down and put the
turn economy in the favor of themonsters, which is very
important.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and especially early, because you don't have,
you know, your 27 ACs and theselike ridiculous high levels.
Yet Having a lot of smallthings like hitting, it's like
if you're gobbling three attacksbut he's adding nothing, it's
gonna make your tanks feeltankier.
Your damage dealers feel thatmore like they do more damage
Even though they're not doinganything more or less than they
should be.
It just feels more satisfyingfor those players to actually
(04:42):
Experiencing, especially withlike a boss.
The first person going down isgoing to most likely be your
tank or one of your big damageDealers, which then means
everyone else is eitherVulnerable now because you don't
have you a hundred health wall,or not gonna get the boss down
because your hundred damage youturn from your wizard isn't
there anymore.
You got to spread the love ofdamage to every single member of
(05:06):
the party.
Is that is a everyone?
Because, like your wizardobviously is only gonna have
like 12 hit points or somethingsilly.
So unless your wizard is divinginto the frontline, don't blow
them up, because then that was,it's just gonna be.
Oh, I'm sitting here whileeveryone else is playing.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, and actually my my favorite mechanic actually
does a really good job atSpreading out that damage.
I personally am obsessed withthe swarm mechanic.
I really think it's a fun traitand I don't think it is common
enough in D&D.
I think it's a unique idea thatyou could have like a whole
horde of bats coming at you andrealistically, as a DM, it's
actually easier to managebecause of the fact that you can
just roll one attack, die andhit for 8% of this large swarm
(05:48):
that's coming at them, whetherit's rats or bats or something.
Something low-powered that youcan have a lot of it Kind of.
It feels very interesting whenbats are like coming and
swooping down on the town andthat's not something that you
see as much in D&D.
I feel like I don't know, haveyou seen that pretty commonly?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
The I haven't.
I haven't had any DMs use it.
I've used it before.
I had a.
It wasn't like a tiny guy, butI did a zombie as a swarm, which
I felt was more fitting forzombies because they tend to
just mob In like most media.
So if wanted to do something alittle different than just
there's 10 zombies, go fightthem.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, and I like that idea.
My issue with doing it waszombies is.
I like having something alittle smaller.
I want the undead to feelreally scary like.
If I'm using an undead it'sbecause I'm trying to scare you.
That's why my undead arehardcore.
But, um, I would like toreiterate, my undead are very
much homebrew.
They follow them a lot morealong the lines of old D&D For
(06:47):
those who know what old D&D waslike.
But for first, swarms, I lovethe idea of using bat swarms
attacking a town, because let'stalk about real-world issues Are
you constantly gonna be havingto have your adventurers bail
you out from an orc raid?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Not, you're not gonna have those big raids every time
and having just we're goinginto another cave, there's
another horde of goblins orcobalts or something.
Just gets boring after a while.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, and like Realistically you could
technically do a swarm mechanicfor a locusts, which I think is
a really fun idea for a campaignis the all these locusts are
coming at this town.
They're killing the town.
Your first adventure could beliterally helping the
townspeople and the farmers Keepthese locusts off of them.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah and then like, with some of that you can also
pull that into being making it,so your heroes aren't starting
off the bat as these grandioselike Herculean feats of we
defeated a dragon, we defeatedthis massive thing, but we saved
people, which is what, for atleast a good number of places,
what they kind of want.
They want that the little guytaking on something too big but
(07:53):
just starting on the too bigwithout anything scaling up
towards it kind of feels justunsatisfying for it.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And I would say there's.
There's definitely some thingsyou can do in the early level to
make it feel a lot moresatisfying, because your Players
a lot of them, unless you have,like that evil player that just
wants to cause chaos they wantto be a hero like.
If you want to be a folk hero,easiest way to do it is go save
the village from it, from asmall disaster.
It doesn't have to be major,and I think that's where even I
(08:22):
sometimes fall into this trap ofoh my god, you have to go and
fight off a whole bandit camp atlevel one or two.
Good luck, rather than just.
Bats have been swarming yourtown lately eat, or Locusts have
been coming in and eating allof the food and you have to go
in and repel them and if youhave a druid, that can be a
really great time for them toshine those Because, tip,
(08:44):
oftentimes you need to start aquest somewhere and when
whatever, especially if it's asmaller area and you're not in
like the big city of whateversetting you pick.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
The like bartender who ever is just giving you
quest information isn't going tojust have off the rip.
Well, here's 12 bandit campsfor you, it's gonna.
Be well, this is a problemwe're facing.
If you want to go help dealwith it and stuff like that, the
locusts or the bats can kind offit that Smaller adventure feel
, while still being somethingsignificant to the world now
(09:18):
with smaller monsters,especially later levels.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I do enjoy using them and a way that I oftentimes
will bounce them, as all tossingstatus effects like bleed
exhaustion, paralyzes thingsthat are relatively devastating
into my damaging abilities.
Which of those do youpersonally think is the scariest
?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
because I know what I think would be the most
terrifying so for the likestatus effects, I always find
that the ideas of thesecreatures Making the party tired
and exhaustion one of those itfits because you're not going to
be fighting to go, I'm gonna befighting like 20 goblins or
something silly and by thatpoint, just by the sheer number
(10:00):
of times you're swinging yoursword or casting your spells,
you're gonna start getting moreand more tired and each goblin
is gonna feel like a bigger featto fight than the last.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So, like that exhaustion level can be one of
the not necessarily scariest butmost impactful for the See for
me as a player, the one that Ifind the absolute most
terrifying and I try to avoid asmuch as possible is I am
terrified of bleed.
Bleed in paralyze are the twomechanics that I think.
(10:31):
If you toss them on a spell oran ability for a monster, you
could take a wolf which is what?
If I remember correctly, a CR1or 2 monster, something super
low.
And if you give a wolf bleed onits claw, attack.
I don't care if you're a level8, character 8 fighter.
You're gonna be afraid becausethat's gonna compound and that
(10:52):
taking damage can really bequite devastating.
Paralyze is the one that Iwould say, though, is far worse.
Anytime you're being paralyzed,it's nearly impossible as a
tank, because if they paralyzeyou, they just go around to the
magic casters.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, and especially if it's not just a unintelligent
like wolves might just if theycould paralyze you jump on the
thing that's not moving and takeit out of the fight.
But if something more like aliches horde or something like
that, that's going to have somesemblance of planning and like a
method, they are just going toignore the tank.
Now it's out of the picture,it's out of that picture form.
(11:27):
So why wouldn't they just go atthe thing that's still shooting
them with arrows or magic?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And I would say one that you can add paralyze to.
That's kind of scary is you cangive goblins like a lightning
sword or a staff where they canfire these kind of electrical
things, and it adds a lot,especially if you have that be
like a magic item that thegoblins stole.
The only fear with that then isthose goblins are more
(11:54):
intelligent than a wolf and theymight just be intelligent
enough to shock down the tankand run behind the wizard and I
play mostly spellcasters.
I am going to be begging for mylife if that's happening,
because I need that tank.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, and while I tend to be play evasive
characters who would just, youknow, either like Misty Step or
something to get out of thosepositions, they're not going to
be the ones who are targeted,because they're going to be like
just a warlock shooting, aneldritch blast at them or
something small like that, asopposed to your devastating
casters whose whole plan is todevastate the enemy and by
(12:30):
giving those goblins theopportunity to like steal from
someone, it also can increasetheir threat or build into
whatever world you want them tobe in, as a plot device of oh we
beat up, we beat these goblinsnow, and oh, they had this magic
sword.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Who's was it?
Yeah, and I would say for me abig thing that I want to mention
and this is actually more of aquestion because I've done a lot
of talking Do you start offright, picking your monsters or
planning your encounter Like doyou build the encounter on the
monsters or the monsters aroundthe encounter?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
So for me that depends on what the it's
dependent on what theencounter's purpose is.
If it's a like just story,usually that encounter is going
to build whatever the enemiesare.
But if it's like supposed to beyour big fight or some feat
they have to surpass.
the monsters are what matter inthat situation.
(13:25):
So, like if you're in a townand for a campaign I've been
working on, there's a spot wherea bunch of people are attacking
a town to force the party to gosomewhere.
For the plot reasons, thoseenemies as individuals aren't
going to be doing much, but theyare there and they are going to
be kind of overwhelming,whereas somewhere else, where
(13:46):
the enemies are what matters andnot as much of the setting
anymore, each of those enemieshas a role to play in the fight.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And I'll say like straight up, I usually actually
plan.
I plan my setting first andthen after that I will actually
plan my monsters, before I planmy encounters.
Because what I like to do is Ilike to find monsters that I
find interesting and I thinkwould be rewarding for my
players to fight against, andthen, once I have made those
decisions as to what I want myplayers to fight, I will
(14:16):
actually go and sit down andI'll find, I'll research what
kind of layers they like to livein, where they like to be, so
that my players can actuallyfight it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
and it be more of a realistic situation, yeah, but
especially if you, I tend to gofrom like what I want the theme
and plot to be and then down tothose encounters and what my
major story beats are going tobe.
And by picking that theme oflike, if I'm doing a fan like
high fantasy the gods areimportant type of campaign,
they're going to be thesemythical monsters, just based on
(14:48):
the nature of where we are inthe world, but then like, for
instance, just a kind of classicexample of the world, down to
what I want my story beats are.
So if I'm doing like a highfantasy, something with, like
the Greek gods, I'm going to be.
If I want something like agiant feet, I'm going to be find
something that's interesting.
(15:08):
So either like a sphinx, for,like a Greek theme, a minotaur,
and the minotaur always is in alabyrinth.
So then either that minotaur iswhat matters in that labyrinth
or it's the labyrinth itself forwhat the plot needs to progress
through.
So if the goal is get throughthe labyrinth to the other end,
then the minotaur is second.
(15:29):
But if the goal is to fight themonotaur and defeat it, then
that's what matters for thatencounter to me.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So is your goal usually to focus more on the
combat or the story.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So I want my, if I want.
The story is always going to bewhat matters the most in any
situation, but I want the combatand the encounter to be
interesting.
It's not fun to play a campaignwhere you're just charging into
a horde of enemies over andover and over again.
But having those encounterswhere sometimes your goal isn't
(16:06):
necessarily to even fight theenemy If you can just get past
them through this checkpoint orwhatever, that's what matters in
that encounter and it makes ita little more dynamic than just
the monsters fighting.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question.
If you were to give a new DMadvice on Testing their homebrew
monsters, what would it be sofor the homebrew monsters.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What I've always done is I kind of just throw them in
and I'm like, oh, this is aninteresting idea, we'll see how
it goes, and then I modifyduring it, which is a little bit
of like just knowing how thecombat needs to move.
So if you have, like a newenemy that you're trying to
build and he's kicking the party, you can include something to
(17:00):
make that enemy either step back, back off.
You can always just like theeasy one, which, whether or not
it's fun, is a up to your owninterpretations is the classic
cutting the health.
Oh, add 200 now has a hundredhealth because the party wasn't
hitting it enough, but kind ofputting those little pieces of
you get, you have to test itsomehow, and especially if it's
(17:23):
a plot monster, you don't wantthe party to know it's coming to
them necessarily.
So you can't unless you havetwo groups, and then you can
test with one group and put iton with the other, which is, you
know whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But that's actually closer to what I prefer to do.
I actually run fight nights,and so I have a large group of
D&D players where I'm luckyenough that I can say hey, I'm
gonna grab the four of you,let's do a fight night and I'm
gonna toss my homebrew monsterthat I want to test in mid
midnight while they don't Knowit, and then later, like a week
or two later, my actual campaignwill receive it, and Usually
(18:00):
they are not pleased when theyreceive something that is a
monstrosity.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have never been gifted enough to have like
enough people to do that with,so what I end up doing is
especially find some coolmonster, and especially in like
three five there was a lot ofreally cool high-level homebrew
was I would do something similar, it was just be build the level
20.
We're gonna fight a kid, nottonight and we'll see how it
goes and then, if I want to,later I can, having already now
(18:28):
fought other than kidna, includeit and modify it, weaken it
down a bit, so it's more fittingfor whatever point we are at
well, a Major point incontention for me and how we use
monsters is my favorite monsterand the thing that got me into
Dungeons and Dragons was dragons.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I absolutely loved the concept of a dragon and I
actually Greatly disliked how 5edoes dragons, and the reason
for that is until fizzbanstreasury of dragons came out,
they were so one-dimensional.
I mean, if you go to curse atthe dragon horde, there is a
dragon in there who is A whitedragon, that is a named dragon
(19:13):
that has a spell in fizzbanstreasury of dragons Named after
it that I sent you a picture ofthat when I found that last
night.
That thing is insane.
It can capsulates everyone inice and move sets their movement
to zero.
It has no spells in Horde ofthe dragon queen and I greatly
disliked that fact that I feelalmost like we have gutted the
(19:35):
undead and dragons and beholders.
There's too much from previousgenerations like before.
They were definitely too strong, but now they are way too weak
and that is my, my stance.
What's yours?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I think Dragons because of how well ought not
well, but like often they'reseen in just everywhere they
were going to be toned down alot to make them fit wherever
you want them to.
You can just plug a dragon insomewhere, but it does kind of
detract from the full experienceof like fighting this giant
(20:14):
monster that's out to Hunt youdown or kill you, especially in
the horde of the dragon queenwhere, and I think like the
first third of it, there's notreally a dragon big dragon
encounter that you have.
Like I know there's a likeswamp dragon out that you can
see, but there's no likenecessary, necessarily like
(20:39):
actual dragon fights.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, most of that comes in the rise of TM at,
which is the, the sequel, and Iwill say dragons are Like really
.
I'm gonna be doing a bookreview of fizzman's treasury of
dragons over on our YouTubechannel, cuz I think it is such
an impactful book.
I think it's really wellwritten because of the fact that
it gives a lot of really goodadvice on how to build, play and
(21:04):
create dragons that aremeaningful, as well as giving
some really terrifying and funSpells and feats that you can
use for them.
That will just absolutely blowyour party away and it's gonna
feel less like a Dr.
The game is named after dragons.
Like, fighting a dragon shouldnot be a minor effect, just like
(21:26):
fighting an undead zombieShould not be an everyday
encounter.
That should be something thatis truly meaningful.
That's my stance on it and I Ireally don't know how many
people kind of share mymentality.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I think the I think the especially dragons on undead
have been toned down a lot fromwhere they were before with
their Threat level and how scaryit was to see them.
But I do also think it's usefulfor them not to be as bad,
because a Undead who just isgoing to sap your life slowly
(22:02):
through non-traditional means isone of the scariest things
possible and that could havebeen worked to still exist in
this the world.
But not one shot your, yourwizard, for not being strong.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and when you're , when you're using your
monsters for your thing, I thinka big question for you should
be how intelligent is themonster?
Are we planning to have it kindof Rationalized losses, or is
it a creature where, when thingsstart to get hard, they're
running away?
And at what point?
Honestly, if you were to likeput a number value on it, what
(22:41):
level of intelligence would theyhave to have before they start
rationalizing losses like humansdo in wars?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
so, realistically, any animal, even like a wolf or
like coyote, any of those, evensmall animals, will Rationalize
at some point.
It becomes no longer worth itfor them to even try to fight
With like and this is just innature, the way I like squirrel
is gonna get away from a snakewho the squirrel has no way to
(23:11):
fight back.
The squirrel just jumps aroundand makes it not worth it for
the snake to put any more effortin, because it's only there for
food.
It's not going to sit aroundwhile its food is running away
from it, because it just becomestoo much of a hassle to go for
it.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So my question is at what point did we tip over from
being more animal, like whereour, our monsters are saying
this isn't worth it, it's toomuch energy versus?
I have a noble cause and I willfight till the death for that.
I'm willing to throw at youanything to make sure this
happens, because liches arethere and Humans are there.
(23:54):
But like what let?
If you were to attach a numberfor a stat block, what number
does it kind of flip to thatkind of mentality where they can
have these real strong goals?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
So I don't think there's like a strong number for
it.
It's To me at least, it'scontextual to what is it like a
human fighter like, even at thisany level, it's going to have
less conviction to Hunt someonedown and kill them than a oath
of vengeance paladin, like itjust depends on what their Whole
(24:28):
deal is really and there's nogood way to like measure that.
But it's a to me at the way, tofigure out at what point should
these enemies either flee, golike go, or continue fighting is
.
Can you, as the DM, rationalizein that situation Continuing
(24:52):
this fight?
So like if you have a hyperreligious who are like we're
murdering every single wizardand they actually believe that
Wizards are evil, they're notgoing to back down from a wizard
, they believe those wizards arethe end of the world, whereas
just a random grunt Is gonna seea wizard who's just blew up a
(25:14):
platoon and go, turn around andbe like, nope, not dealing with
this today.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So If you're going to be in a situation where your
party needs to get out of thefight, are you?
Which are you gonna have happenfirst?
Are you going to make yourparty run away?
Are you gonna make the monstersrun away?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
That's a hard one to answer, but I think if the
monster is able to Get out ofthis situation, especially if
it's not an intelligent monsterit is most likely going to be
the one who has to leave,whereas the party the party
(25:53):
should never feel like they haveto flee an enemy because it's
too scary, like, obviously, likethere's things where it's like,
oh, you have a dragon pushingthem towards a thing To,
whatever the next plot hook is,but at that, for those levels,
it's not really a Threat as muchas it like the dragon yes, if
they are stupid and charge, itis going to eat them but it
(26:16):
doesn't feel like this thing isa threat as much as it's like
it's a wall that's slowlypushing me somewhere okay, yeah,
because for me I would say itreally depends on the mind
counter.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
If my players are fighting other humans, they're
fighting against a nation or atown I'm gonna make them run
away because, especially ifthey're trying to like, for
example, if I'm running an evilcampaign and they're trying to
force the villagers out of theirhome, they're gonna fight and
they're gonna stand and fight.
And if they're about to beTPKed, it's on them to run away.
And usually when I have thosesituations where I'm making my
(26:51):
players run away, I Don't allowmy NPCs to make Opportunity
attack rules as my playersretreat.
I think that's the better wayto use the monsters and bend the
rules to keep my party safe.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Because if the party, just you know, attacks a
village and then all die becausethey attacked a village and
didn't just and Tried to escape,in most situations those, those
villagers, aren't out for blood.
They're just trying to keep youout of their house.
As soon as you're not in theirhouse, they're just gonna say,
well, hope they're not gonnacome back.
We'll put up some walls, makeit harder.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
They don't.
They realistically don't wantto come after you.
They that's so much work forthem.
That being said, they mayrelocate, but I think in those
settings it's I would ratherhave my party be the ones to
step back a lot of the timesespecially in the evil.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I think if you're going down the evil parties type
of roots especially, it's theon the party to be the ones to
back off, just because of thenature of how that Dynamic is,
if you're in a evil campaign,your party is never going to be
the ones like defendingthemselves.
They might be if, like, aheroic party comes and is trying
(28:00):
to fight them, but then you'rean evil party, you're going to
hunt them down.
That's just how it goes,whereas if you're the heroes and
you're trying to defend a place, the monster should be the ones
to flee, almost because they'rethe ones attacking and You're
just pushing them away.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, and I think I think that's a pretty safe way
to do it.
And if I had to, if a new DMwas to come up to me and ask
that exact same question, myanswer would be I usually have
my attacker be the one to leave.
If your party is the oneattacking, they should be the
ones to flee, whereas if it'sthe enemy, you're gonna flee
back to where you are safe ifyou're in a bad situation, and
(28:43):
that's why I would say thatwould be the best way to do it,
especially for the people wholistening, who are looking for
advice on how really to runthese Encounters.
Make sure that you focus onhaving your Enemies and or your
players retreat to where theyfeel safe.
If they don't feel safe wherethey're at, they should be the
ones to flee, not the ones thatare in the home field.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
There are ways you can switch that up a little bit.
For this one I mentioned alittle bit earlier, I have a
campaign that opens with anattack on a town to move the
party.
The party isn't living there.
They're not gonna feel safe inthat position, even though
they're being attacked, they'regoing to be the ones to leave
because they're the ones whodon't have the strength there to
(29:28):
actually hold that space.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
All right, and with that we finished off our topic
for today.
Thank you everyone who listened.
If you enjoyed our podcast,check out the rest of our
content over on our YouTubechannel or our website.
Other than that, have a greatrest of your day and we will see
you next week.
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