August 8, 2024 • 51 mins
On a seemingly perfect day, August 19, 1989, Jose and Kitty Menendez took their two sons, Lyle, 21, and Eric, 18, on a leisurely boating trip aboard their family yacht. Little did they know that this outing would precede an unimaginable tragedy. The very next night, as the family settled in for a relaxing evening, Lyle and Eric made a shocking decision that would alter their lives forever.
In a moment of darkness, the brothers fatally shot both of their parents and spent the rest of the night desperately trying to cover their tracks. In the months that followed, the Menendez brothers appeared to drown their sorrow in extravagant parties and lavish spending, a behavior that raised eyebrows among those who knew them.
As they struggled with their grief, they eventually sought counseling, but this is where the story takes a chilling twist. What compelled Lyle and Eric to confess to the unspeakable act against their parents? What has become of them since that fateful night?
Join us as we delve deeper into this harrowing tale, exploring the complexities of their actions and the shadows of their past. Brace yourself for revelations that challenge your perceptions and leave you questioning the true nature of this family's tragedy. Spoiler alert: the journey reveals layers of intrigue, and as Shelbey and Deb explore the narrative, they find themselves unsure if this story truly has a conclusion.
Listen to new monthly episodes wherever you get your podcasts! Look for us @dying2bfound on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Pinterest or visit our website at www.dyingtobefound.com and https://linktr.ee/dying2bfound.
REFERENCES:
- Could New Evidence Help Free the Menendez Brothers? | Psychology Today
- Lyle Menendez details new evidence, life after murders with Rosie O'Donnell | Court TV
- Menendez brothers await a decision they hope will free them - CBS News
- Petition · Appeal for Menendez Brothers. - United States · Change.org
- The True Story of Why the Menendez Brothers Killed Their Parents - Looking Back at the Lyle and Eric's Trial & Motives
- Lyle Menendez Slams Murder Trial: 'Same Sentence as a Serial Killer' - Newsweek
- Why the Menendez Brothers Killed Their Parents
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that
(00:06):
episodes may contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals
and or humankind. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
I said we'd be back and here we are. Thank you so much for hanging in with us. We did take a
(00:32):
little hiatus to work on other amazing projects that I have already gotten out there on social
media. Mary Ann, also known as the social detective, and I are partnering up to bring you a
different kind of podcast where we advocate to create a much needed change in our criminal
and social justice systems. Now, there are six brand new episodes out there waiting for you
(00:58):
at Insinuation Podcast. Be sure to check that out wherever you find your podcasts at. I think
you're really going to like it. In the meantime, Dying to be Found is entering our third season
where family members will still be dropping in. Only we are going to bring you monthly episodes
instead of weekly and we appreciate everyone who has reached out to say, please do not stop
(01:24):
with your episodes because we love Dying to be Found and I appreciate that. So we heard you,
we're listening, we're just going to be dropping once a month because I did discover the importance
to work on my own self-care by spreading out my time. I do love you all too much to stop now
and today my daughter Shelby is joining me here for our season three opener. Hi Shelby, how are you?
(01:50):
Hello, I'm so good. I was just thinking while you were reading kind of the intro that we have not
recorded since we were getting ready to go to Jodi Massina. That was back in February.
Yeah, all right. You ready to get started? I know that people don't like small talk so we're just
going to get going here. Yep, I'm ready. I think that we could both say that as human beings we
(02:13):
do go through growing pains mainly around those teenage years. Wouldn't you agree Shelby? Absolutely.
I feel like teenagers on all sides of the teenage spectrum. Yes and they do say what goes around
comes around tenfold. Twice for me. Well I'm not going to lie you tested me a little bit during
(02:35):
your teenage years and I'm glad that we can laugh about it now because I was thinking about this
Shelby and as Forrest Gump says, life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're going
to get. But in the end I do feel like I have my best friend here with me today. Oh same. Yeah,
yeah. So how is teenage life going for you at home? So far I would say the last week has been
(03:01):
pretty quiet. Just the last week? The last few months have been a complete roller coaster.
Yes, I know and you never know when that's going to happen either do you? No. Life is full of
surprises. Well today we are going to be talking about Lyle and Eric Menendez, two brothers living
(03:21):
in California who spoiler alert Shelby ended up killing both of their parents back in 1989.
I remember this. How do you know this story? Because I love true crime. Oh I got you. Okay,
we're going to get into that act in just a little bit but as I was researching this case I was
(03:45):
seeing a lot of articles dated just this year Shelby. So there looks like there's new movement
in this case which leads me to believe that the Menendez brothers may be released from prison
sooner rather than later. Really? Yeah, have you not seen anything in the news? I have not. I think
(04:05):
because I was researching I came across those articles and I was very surprised because I know
what they did. I know they should be serving out the rest of their life in prison but we don't know
that for sure and I will go back to the beginning right now but we'll get into that a little bit
later. Joseph Lyle Menendez was born on January 10th 1968 to Jose and Mary Louise also known as
(04:30):
Kitty whom I will reference for the rest of this episode and Eric Galen Menendez was born two years
later on November 27th 1970. The two boys came from a very affluent background. Their grandfather
played for a professional soccer team in Cuba and their mother was a swimmer who was elected to Cuba's
(04:53):
Hall of Fame. I thought that was really interesting. That is interesting. I knew they were wealthy I
didn't know how though. Yeah exactly me too. Well their son Jose Menendez which is Lyle and Eric's
father eventually migrated to the United States when he was 16 years old during the Cuban Revolution.
(05:14):
Oh that's close to the age that I migrated to the United States huh. Jose followed in his parents
footsteps by earning a swimming scholarship during college in the United States where he met his
beauty queen future wife Mary Louise Kitty Anderson. Jose eventually went out to work as a CPA before
(05:35):
getting into the music industry where he became the head of RCA Records. During his tenure with
RCA Records he did give a few bands their start and you may have heard of them a Shelby more so
80s music and that was my era Duran Duran and the Eurythmics. These are two of my favorite bands
(05:57):
and I don't know if you've heard of this one it's a Puerto Rican band. Menudo have you heard of them?
No I have not I don't think I've heard of the Eurythmics either I know Duran Duran. Okay well
Menudo I believe had Ricky Martin in the band like it was like a boy band of its time so yeah
I think that's where he got his start. This band will come up briefly a little bit later in the
(06:20):
episode but for now as Jose continued to climb the corporate ladder he eventually moved his family
from New Jersey to Los Angeles where he worked in the entertainment industry in music and as a film
executive so he's just really expanding his reach here which is cool. By 1988 Jose's net worth was
(06:43):
14 million dollars that's back in 1988 so you know that's a ton of cash today. Oh for sure yeah and
his family could certainly afford the luxurious lifestyle of the rich and famous. Jose purchased
a family home in Beverly Hills living amongst some of the most elite artists like Michael Jackson
(07:06):
and Elton John. Could you imagine having Michael Jackson or Elton John in your neighborhood?
I could not. That is pretty cool because here in the Atlanta area it's not uncommon for people to
have Atlanta Braves living in your neighborhood or Atlanta Falcons. Well I'm nowhere near the big
(07:27):
city so I don't think there's probably anybody famous that lives within a hundred mile radius
of me. Probably not but I think that there was a famous baseball player that started out in one of
your towns nearby. Catfish Hunter. Yeah Catfish Hunter. All right well let's talk about Jose's
personality for a moment. I think it's important to set the scene here based on later court
(07:48):
testimonies. Jose was known to be a bit of a jerk around town. I mean a lot of people work their way
to the top through sheer ruthlessness. I think in the corporate world that's pretty much how you do
it. You step on people on the way up right? Oh for sure. Although Jose was very intelligent and
business savvy his co-workers on the whole disliked him. Oh I know I mean I'm sure you've worked with
(08:14):
people that you didn't like. I know I have. I certainly have. It's difficult. Yeah I hope that
nobody would ever look at me and think that. I always try to be very respectful. I do have my
days. Yesterday was one of them. I think there's a difference though of being diplomatic in your
(08:34):
approach to communication versus just being a jerk. You know what I mean? Oh for sure yeah.
So the general consensus was that Jose did come across as rude, arrogant, and pretty abrasive
during his interactions with others. And this didn't just happen in the workplace. Jose was
also known to be very stern with his two boys Lyle and Eric while they were growing up. I was just
(08:59):
thinking before you went to this paragraph that I bet that that rude, arrogant, abrasive you know
behavior was definitely coming home too. Oh yeah it's ingrained in the personality I think. You're
not going to change from one personality to the next just because you're in work versus home
environments. Unfortunately for Kitty he had lots of extramarital affairs and didn't really treat
(09:24):
Kitty much differently from their children. I did find a few articles where he was abusive towards
her but more so towards the boys. As the Menendez brothers grew up Lyle began playing tennis and did
pretty well. He was naturally ranked in his age group and I'm thinking about this Shelby because
you play travel softball so you know you have those age groups that you're in. And he seemed to be
(09:50):
following in Jose's footsteps as a successful businessman as well because you know he's older,
he's in his 20s so he's beginning to find his way in life. I don't think Lyle was doing this on his
own though due to his competitive nature Jose worked Lyle very hard at tennis practice. So
(10:10):
there's a little bit of a difference between Lyle and Eric because Eric was a swimmer. He's
following in his mother's footsteps. One of Eric's swimming coaches had told a reporter at some point
in time that Jose was one of those overbearing parents on the sidelines who interfered with
(10:32):
Eric's performance which really damaged Eric's self-confidence. Oh goodness now that's tough
Shelby and here's why. I just mentioned that you played travel softball. I mean me personally I
stayed away from parents like that. I saw them out on the field and some of the kids that you
played with had a hard time meeting the expectations of their very own parents and that is why I kept
(10:58):
books. I just needed to stay away from all that. Grown-ups are terrible about the drama. Exactly.
Oh my gosh just these you know high school soccer games. I remember one game in particular Ian's
senior year and it was you know these parents are cussing on the sidelines and some of these kids
on the field are 15 years old. You know they're ninth graders. It's so sad. I mean I can only
(11:20):
imagine if they're not you know meeting performance expectations during the event what are those kids
having to hear on the way home and that's just not right. Yeah I don't think I ever did that to you.
I think it's just like you know you're talented. You go do your thing. You know I was very proud
of you but if you had a bad day you had a bad day. Oh yeah everybody's entitled to that. Yeah nobody's
(11:42):
perfect. All right well we're going to go ahead and skip ahead to August 18th 1989 when Lyle
age 21 at the time and Eric age 18 took a road trip to San Diego and stopped at a local sporting
goods store to make a purchase. Two grown adults just going for a ride Shelby and I do want to
kind of emphasize that both of them are considered adults even though Eric just turned 18. He's in my
(12:10):
mind still a teenager really doesn't have that maturity level with him yet but then Lyle is 21.
I mean he's still getting there but has a few years on Eric and I wanted to give you a little
bit of a perspective on this drive. The distance between Los Angeles where they lived in San Diego
was about 120 miles or 193 kilometers which took about two hours to travel. I mean honestly that's
(12:39):
nothing because you live in the car I live in the car we love our road trips right. Yes we do I
actually that's about the mileage I had to drive last weekend to go get my kid. Well this wasn't
just any old road trip the two men and I say men because they are they had gone on a mission to
purchase some 12 gauge shotguns that they would use two days later to pump 15 rounds into the
(13:04):
parents as they sat watching television and I mean Jose and Kitty were watching television.
The brothers didn't purchase handguns Shelby they purchased rifles that are known for home defense
and also for hunting large game birds or military defense. Those are the kind of weapons that these
(13:24):
two men purchased on a two-hour road trip. They had the intent to kill there was no maybe they'll
make it through it. Oh yeah totally premeditated. Well one day after those shotguns were purchased
Jose and Kitty took Lyle and Eric out on a yachting excursion for the day just one day and then one
(13:44):
day later after that Shelby the brothers executed both parents as they were in the living room
watching a television show winding down for the day. That's horrific. It is they never saw it coming.
Nope. Now immediately following this ambush the Menendez brothers changed into clean clothes.
(14:05):
They went to a local movie theater to purchase Batman tickets. They dumped the guns that they
had just used to kill their parents and headed back home only to air quote discover their parents
had been murdered. Wow. Now Lyle was the one to call 911 saying that someone had killed their
(14:26):
parents while he and Eric were out for the night. So here the investigation begins. Of course the
brothers are going to be questioned on their whereabouts during the evening. They devised
their story so well of going out to the movie theater that nobody really questioned it. And I
do kind of want to point out to Shelby that this was 1989 well before closed circuit television
(14:52):
and the true crime explosion where everybody's watching you know things were a little bit simpler
back then and taking their word for it I think was a big factor as well. When police first arrived on
scene they found Eric sobbing on the front lawn of his parents home when responding to that 911
(15:15):
call. Of course these two very clean cut wealthy boys could have nothing to do with this right.
Good acting. For sure. Now although there was no sign of forced entry neither Lyle nor Eric were on
the investigators radar. I had just mentioned it was a simpler time simpler life these kids are
(15:38):
coming from a wealthy background. They were never even tested for gunshot residue. Besides going to
the movies Lyle and Eric also threw in that they had to backtrack to pick up Eric's ID. I guess they
wanted that little bit of cushion as far as timing. They had said that he had left that behind before
(15:58):
heading back and making their discovery. Investigators either believed the brothers and simply did not
follow up or they just didn't follow up with any of the movie theater employees to corroborate this
story because I found that a little odd that the police would not go and interview any of the
employees to verify that Eric and Lyle had showed back up to get an ID because they would have had
(16:25):
something behind the counter in the lost and found. Police just didn't follow up on this.
Yeah that's a hard spot for them to be in. I mean when you have two wealthy parents that just
parents in general that have just died at that kind of manner and then the last thing that I would
think is that it'd be their kids. Oh yes. But I guess that's why when you're a law enforcement
(16:48):
you have to put those feelings aside. Well we do know that based on Eric's demeanor immediately
following his parents murder plus during the police interviews that he was just straight up a mess.
And this was Eric. Lyle on the other hand was calm cool and collected throughout the entire
(17:08):
investigation and even suggested at some point that he believed that it could have been a mob hit.
Of course he made that suggestion Shelby about the mob because he had just killed his parents
and you could not act your way out of this one. No that'd be really hard. It seems like Eric though
you know they had so much adrenaline leading up to the moment and during the moment of that happening
(17:33):
and it's probably just set in with him like oh my gosh like they are gone they're not coming back.
Yeah and I don't know the dynamics of the brothers relationship. I mean typically siblings are very
close but clearly Lyle is the leader here because he was the one that was following in his dad's
footsteps as far as a businessman. Eric was still on the young side and I would consider to be just
(17:58):
a little bit of a follower. But Lyle and Eric continue to stick to their story over the next
six months. That of being at the movies when their parents were murdered. But here are where things
get a little bit strange and you can say that Lyle and Eric's behavior became a little bizarre
(18:18):
became a little bizarre in that six-month period Shelby. On the day of Jose and Kitty's funeral
Lyle showed off some shoes that he was wearing during his limo ride. He happened to be sharing
this limo with Jose's secretary and a few others and thought it would be great to break the ice
and engage in some small talk. During the limo ride Lyle pointed at the loafers that he had
(18:42):
taken from his own father's closet to wear at the funeral and nonchalantly asked his fellow passengers
quote who said I couldn't fill my father's shoes unquote. Lyle then went on to wonder aloud how he
could get tickets to the US Open which was scheduled to take place August 28th through
(19:03):
September 10th 1989 just three days after Jose and Kitty's funeral. In case you don't know what
the US Open is it's a big tennis tournament and going from here Shelby things just became a little
suss because as Lyle and Eric continued to live the high life for the next six months they did
go on living their best life after killing their parents like nothing ever happened because just
(19:29):
six days after their parents death Lyle decided to go on a shopping spree that would clearly cheer
him up I mean what better thing to do besides go to the US Open go do some shopping. I'm curious
because you know I see this a lot at work when you have a lot of money you have financial advisors
involved and you know there's trust set up and and all of that kind of stuff so did they and maybe
(19:54):
you'll get to this but are they stealing the credit cards from the parents do they have an allowance
I'm just wondering where they're getting this money from. I did not see one article that said
that they have a trustee so I'm going to assume they were using credit cards but I'm not there
I don't know specifically it was just very clear that they were going on shopping sprees because
(20:19):
they came up with some pretty good merchandise they paid over $15,000 for not one but three
Rolex watches. I have a lot of other things in mind that I could spend $15,000 on and it does
not involve three watches. No it sure doesn't that doesn't even buy a car these days but back then it
(20:40):
was a pretty big chunk they could buy the watches and they probably didn't think twice about it
because the money was running fluidly I think through the house now Lyle and Eric moved out
of their 3.5 million dollar home and that's about 7.5 million dollars today Shelby and went to stay
in expensive hotels before leasing a condominium where they had adjoining apartments to make sure
(21:07):
that they always had enough room to party and I'd ask why they didn't just stay in their LA home but
it was probably still taped off they could have been giving off the persona that they did not want
to stay there with the trauma that they endured I mean I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why they
did not just stay in the family home yeah if I had offed someone like that I wouldn't want to stay
(21:32):
there either not that I would ever do that well like Lyle Eric also enjoyed his Rolexes but he
also liked to gamble Eric hired a tennis coach to hopefully help him get good enough to go pro
but remember Shelby Eric is 18 years old and he was the swimmer between the two brothers to me
(21:54):
he started a little bit too late to go pro in tennis but he did fly to the Middle East to compete
in some tournaments in all Lyle and Eric spent a minimum of 1 million dollars from their parents'
estate in about six months while going on all those shopping sprees and various excursions
Eric had decided not to attend UCLA where he was scheduled to attend in the fall he opted for those
(22:20):
professional tennis lessons which by the way cost sixty thousand dollars he invested in a rock concert
that never happened and bought himself a Jeep Wrangler Lyle returned to Princeton University
in New Jersey but it was just for show Shelby he continued on with more shopping sprees which
(22:41):
consisted of buying clothes a Porsche and a restaurant that he had hoped would eventually
turn into a franchise under his newly formed LLC called Menendez Investment Enterprises
that's a great name and if he's business savvy aside from the fact of what he's dealing with
and what he's hiding behind he had some good ventures there oh yeah especially you know at
(23:07):
a younger age for good measure Lyle and Eric made one more investment they both began therapy with
Dr. Jerome Ozeal to help get themselves through their parents' death Dr. Ozeal was already known
to Eric because a year earlier he had burglarized some homes in Los Angeles and was court ordered
(23:29):
to attend therapy in order to avoid jail time okay you see what money can buy here it gets you out
of jail free just go to a therapy session or two right and you're free yeah not just anybody is
going to be given that option I'm gonna say if they burglarized a home they're gonna go to jail
at least for a year do some community service but nope not the Menendez brothers now we know
(23:54):
that all good things eventually come to an end and during all of this shopping partying and shaking
Jose and Kitty's money tree Eric was really beginning to unravel internally he was the one
on the front lawn visibly upset when the police came that night and cracks from the pressure of
(24:16):
what he and Lyle had done were beginning to form Eric ultimately developed an ulcer from all the
stress of keeping their dirty little secret I get it some people just can't handle the pressure
especially at this level of secrecy but yeah he was becoming physically sick over all of this and
I can understand why during one of his therapy sessions with Dr. Oseale Eric spilled it all and
(24:43):
confessed everything wow now we do know that there is doctor client privileges and typically a
therapist is not obligated to report what was said during a patient's therapy session I think this is
an exception though yeah you would think but Eric probably felt safe in doing so in that space
(25:04):
because he was probably aware of those privileges and Dr. Oseale did hold up his end of the bargain
at least as far as reporting the Menendez brothers to the authorities he didn't do it
it was his mistress whom he had confided in who reported Lyle and Eric to the police Dr. Oseale
(25:24):
had let her listen to one of Lyle and Eric's taped therapy sessions wow I know right can you imagine
oh my goodness I have the juiciest gossip you're just not gonna believe this listen to what I
recorded could you imagine somebody coming to you and letting you listen to something like that and
then swear to secrecy not to tell right no all right well don't think that his mistress was doing
(25:49):
anything right here because apparently she and her lover had a somewhat tumultuous relationship
and immediately following an alleged attack by the good doctor she took her copies yes I said
copies she had copies of this tape she took the copies of Eric and Lyle's take confessions from
(26:10):
that therapy session straight to the police how in the world did she get copies how did she get
copies I mean if she's at home and he's at work I'm sure that she did a little digging snooping
around got the little tape recorder out easy to do when you had cassette tapes shelves you wouldn't
understand I know what that is I watched the Long Island medium she uses those oh wow on March 8th
(26:39):
1990 203 days after Jose and Kitty's murder Lyle Menendez was arrested authorities could not yet
arrest Eric in the same day because he was currently in Israel playing a tennis match
news did reach him however that Lyle had been arrested and Eric flew home voluntarily where he
(27:02):
too was arrested for the murders of his parents on March 11th 1990 so three days after Lyle even
though the Menendez brothers were arrested for what we call as parasite that's another word for
the murder of one's parents the case stalled for several years Lyle and Eric would later be tried
(27:24):
at the same time but they did have separate trials so that they each had their own jury and
that they each had their own jury the judge overseeing this case originally ruled that
portions from both Lyle's and Eric's taped therapy sessions would be admissible in court after Eric
was heard threatening Dr. Oseal's life during one of his taped therapy sessions this in turn broke
(27:51):
the doctor patient confidentiality oh my god I know right well defense lawyers appealed this ruling
and the case dragged on for another 30 months until the supreme court weighed in and said get
on with it these men are entitled to a speedy trial I get it I mean that is one of the things
(28:12):
that's supposedly great about the United States is that you are entitled to a speedy trial but
you hear about so many people remaining behind bars for years before that trial gets started
um-hmm defined speedy will you great two of the three therapy sessions were ruled admissible as
evidence one of which contained Lyle's own words saying what he had done Eric was also heard on
(28:37):
these tapes that although he fired first Lyle fired best on December 7th 1992 the Menendez
Brothers trial began the news media went into a frenzy and court tv had round the clock coverage
of the trial plus additional commentaries before and after each day's testimonies and Shelby this
(29:02):
is really where the door opened up to true crime drama because court tv made a name for itself
during this trial which had come just before the infamous OJ Simpson trial back in 1994 I could see
that yeah I mean I remember it was all over everything was live and I'd be running home and
(29:23):
turning on the tv and seeing what I could pick up since I had just worked eight hours and it was a
constant at this point in time the sensationalism of this trial was pretty crazy both parents were
murdered by two handsome young rich white men dressed in pastel sweaters during their trial
(29:43):
and that was a big talking point too the news media was all over how the Menendez Brothers
dressed for their trials really some of the key talking points during their trial are as follows
defense attorney Leslie Abramson set the stage with the story of both brothers enduring years
(30:03):
enduring years of verbal and sexual abuse from a highly controlling father now up until this point
Shelby not one word of sexual abuse but when the trial began their lawyer really argued that point
Lyle testified that he had been molested by his father between the ages of six and eight Eric
(30:27):
testified that he was molested as well beginning at the age of eight but continuously through the
age of 18 therefore Lyle and Eric killed both parents in self-defense I don't think I was
self-defense yeah I'm sure there are legalities involved with that statement right there because
(30:49):
I didn't see anything where the boys were being physically attacked when they committed the
murders I'm not really sure but I'm just thinking Kitty got in the middle of this I think the mom
was stuck in the middle too I really do I mean you can only do so much to protect your children from
an angry father who had that personality type that I had described I'm sure that he didn't like it
(31:14):
too much if she got involved now Abramson also painted Kitty as an alcoholic and drug addict
who was devastated by her ever cheating husband remember Shelby he didn't really hide his
extra marital affairs from his wife it was a constant in their relationship so she just dealt
(31:34):
with that openly the best that she could Abramson also went on to argue that Lyle and Eric simply
could not take it anymore and they had decided just weeks before the murders that they were
going to confront Jose with their allegations of abuse but when it was all said and done
Eric's jury deadlocked on a verdict on January 10th 1994 Lyle's jury deadlocked two weeks later
(32:02):
both cases were declared a mistrial and prosecutors and the defense had to start all over again wow
this has gone on forever it really did go on a very long time and I almost think this is probably
why you remember it because it took seven years to find Lyle and Eric Menendez guilty of murdering
(32:24):
their parents so this would have been on the news when you were growing up now it did take that
seven years because during their first trial both Lyle and Eric's lawyers painted that rather
disturbing picture of the boys upbringing in the Menendez household now remember that I had told
you about Jose's personality how his co-workers perceived him to be somewhat of a jerk the
(32:48):
brothers stated that they were going to confront Jose with the sexual assault allegations with the
intentions of making this go public if Jose did not stop so it sounds to me like they were planning
to blackmail him maybe that's what it sounds like just let me repeat this I had mentioned this at
(33:09):
the beginning of this episode Lyle was 21 Eric was 18 so I'm a little bit surprised I'm not going to
say that it was an easy decision but why are they waiting until now to confront Jose here I'm sure
there's a lot of reasons why they were waiting and things can build up you can only take so much
(33:29):
right well with Lyle being 21 it makes me wonder if there was a little alcohol encouragement yeah
I never thought of that well for good measure don't forget Lyle and Eric had taken that road
trip down to San Diego a four-hour round trip from Los Angeles to purchase those shotguns in fear
of retaliation from Jose you know because he was a jerk that to me I thought was a little strange
(33:55):
a little strange as well for the fact that they went ahead and made that trip because they were
already thinking Jose was going to retaliate I mean when you're being accused of doing something
like that Jose was probably going to blow up pretty big oh yeah well the brothers did what they did
and their first trial was televised for the world to see the general public didn't like the defense's
(34:19):
argument about the Menendez brothers being sexually abused and neither did the prosecutors
now here's why Lyle and Eric went on that one million dollar spending spree and partied it up
for six months after they had just killed their parents the brothers were perceived to be whining
on the stand while giving their testimony their temperaments did not come across as showing real
(34:45):
emotion so a lot of people felt that they were just acting the whole time which gave the general
public and most likely the jury members the impression that things simply were not adding
up here and besides that Shelby not one therapist friend or family member got on the stand to
(35:05):
corroborate the brothers allegations of sexual abuse by their father now I once again never will
discount that this type of abuse occurs Shelby if this was Lyle and Eric's truth I'm not here to
judge it child molestation is despicable and no one should ever get away with that unfortunately
(35:26):
Lyle and Eric didn't just come across as believable when they went on the stand to testify you know
how people look upset and even act like they're crying but you never see those tears that's how
they came across on the stand that was the public's image now the public really wasn't having any of
(35:47):
it and in October 1993 while the trial was still going on John Malkovich you know him right no
I don't famous actor oh you've never heard of John Malkovich okay you can go look him up but he is a
famous actor you know how actors typically go on Saturday Night Live well he played Lyle Menendez
(36:10):
on Saturday Night Live speaking in a very flat voice and fake crying and the live audience
absolutely loved it I think there's a lot of misconceptions there too I mean if you're going
to talk about insinuations like my insinuation podcast I mean that's the whole thing is there's
so many insinuations here and people are jumping to conclusions you just have to get all the facts
(36:35):
before you should do that so going into both cases Shelby we know that there was a declared
mistrial the second trial took place in 1995 only this time the judge overseeing the trial
refused to allow tv cameras in the courtroom for any of this second go-round because we saw what a
(36:56):
circus it was the first go-round the judge I think used a little bit of discretion that second time
he felt there was too much publicity from that first trial which could have been one of the
reasons why the juries resulted in deadlock I kind of agree with that because it really was
quite a circus yeah I think he made a smart decision he also ruled that there was insufficient
(37:21):
evidence of any alleged abuse by Jose against his boys nor the possibility that Lyle and Eric
had killed in self-defense out of fear okay so you know what I mean I kind of wonder this too
did he get some of his of his own predispositions because of what he saw on this televised court
(37:44):
case before he became the judge in the second trial I kind of wondered that that's possible
now remember how I told you the band Muno would come out into play here yes well one of the band
members eventually came forward years later to say that he too had been sexually abused by
Jose Menendez so this is now opening the Menendez brothers original allegations into question so
(38:12):
the judge is saying I'm not really sure there's enough evidence but a famous band member comes
forward to say hey this happened to me too so I guess my question is is why did he not come
forward sooner during the first trial we'll never know and again that's his truth and you can't ever
really judge anybody as to why they're not going to say anything I was just curious as to why he
(38:37):
waited until the second trial seven years and two trials later Lyle and Eric Menendez were both found
guilty of murdering their parents and both were convicted of two counts of first degree murder
Lyle and Eric were sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison without the possibility of
(38:57):
parole California's like that man if you get sentenced for life you will live and die in prison
wow gosh they're so young I know they really were because we're going to jump ahead to today's day
and age Lyle is currently 55 Eric is 52 they are now both housed in the same correctional facility
(39:18):
in San Diego initially Shelby when they first went off to prison they were sent to separate prisons
but they were reunited in 2018 both Lyle and Eric work on campus on beautification projects plus
council inmates who were sexually abused wow I mean they're doing good things behind bars
(39:40):
what it sounds like yeah and Lyle went on to get credentials in sociology so he has earned a bachelor's
degree while behind bars which Shelby I actually do love when I hear that inmates do go on to get
a degree because they are rehabilitating and it does sound like he is trying to be proactive
(40:02):
in his own ways oh for sure Lyle and Eric eventually married Lyle married a former model
but soon divorced when he began to have another relationship with a different woman whom he
eventually married in 2003 and is still married to today wow there's always somebody that's going
to contact an inmate Eric married a pen pal in 1999 and is still married as well wow I mean are
(40:31):
you happy for them uh yeah yeah it sounds like they're doing good things okay I don't know they're
put in such a hard situation I think and I think that they're just trying to make the best of it
I think so too yeah I mean they are definitely being proactive but don't think we're done
because here comes the twist remember Shelby at the very beginning of this episode when I told
(40:57):
you that there were a ton of new articles on the Menendez brothers case as in this year yes Lyle
had told Rosie O'Donnell in a September 2023 interview that if he ever gets out of prison
he will continue on with his life's work to help rehabilitate inmates who are victims of sexual
(41:18):
abuse in March 2024 Newsweek reported that Fox Nation was streaming a four-part series about
this case Lyle is quoted in numerous recent articles saying that he and Eric should have
received an eight to ten year conviction for manslaughter at best but wound up receiving a
(41:42):
sentence comparable to a serial killer he's not wrong but I'm kind of sensing a little bit of
entitlement here after 35 years what are your thoughts to that I'm curious as to not what he
has to say but if that's actually true because I mean they were so young and I don't know the
(42:02):
stipulations really between first second degree murder versus manslaughter but to me I think two
consecutive life sentences like I mean what they did was very very serious but I do think that it
was a little harsh for coming just considering what they went through as children how other
(42:22):
people perceived how you know Jose was treating them I think it was harsh definitely guilty yeah
definitely and it was a cut-and-dry case but there's so many different elements and factors
involved like how the sexual abuse came up later during the trial that was never mentioned before
(42:44):
but then you're dealing with these young men who just lost their parents but they're out partying
so you just have to go with the facts right now let me tell you in my opinion just from everything
that I've read Lyle Menendez seems to be the spokesperson these days because Shelby you're
not going to believe this you and I talked about going to CrimeCon in Nashville this year we did
(43:08):
we didn't make it but guess who did Lyle Lyle oh Lyle participated in a telephone interview
at CrimeCon in Nashville Tennessee which I did actually go look up and listen to it for a few
minutes and I mean he's a very well versed man again I think that there's a lot of information
(43:30):
coming out right now because the brothers have been trying to prove that the abuse from their
father really did happen and again if this is their truth it needs to be validated but here are some
arguments that I believe Shelby Lyle and Eric do deserve to have their cases revisited number one
I had mentioned the Menudo band member who came forward with those allegations that Jose had also
(43:57):
abused him so that's new evidence that was never presented at trial number one Eric Menendez wrote
a letter to his cousin back in 1988 a year before these murders occurred which happened to resurface
in 2018 and corroborates the fact that the brothers had been sexually abused he had written a letter
(44:21):
to his cousin to say hey this is going on the letter lay tucked in a drawer somewhere until
2018 when it was discovered I believe Eric's cousin is deceased at this point in time so when
his family members were going through his things I believe that's when they found it now both Lyle
and Eric have always maintained that they killed their parents through self-defense after suffering
(44:46):
from their abuse and PTSD wow Shelby did I mention PTSD one time during this episode no yeah so
psychology today references numerous legal cases that can potentially back up the Mendez brothers
claims of parental abuse New Jersey State versus Kelly in 1984 refers to a case where a woman's
(45:12):
murder conviction was overturned on appeal after it was determined that she had suffered from
battered spouse syndrome Rogers versus Florida State in 1993 states that PTSD should have been
considered during the Menendez brothers trials not once was that brought up in court and I
(45:34):
don't know if you could even reference cases that took place after a murder trial which the Menendez
brothers trials occurred in 1989 but I don't know if you can use these on appeal years later I suppose
you could because hindsight being the fact that PTSD was never introduced into the boys trials
(45:57):
but there's another case New Jersey State versus Hines in 1997 also referenced how an expert was
never asked to testify on the effects of PTSD when a defendant was convicted of manslaughter
after being abused by her father for years so similar to the Rogers versus Florida State
(46:19):
attorneys can come back later and argue that defense lawyers from 1989 were incompetent
kind of agree with that because they never had experts on the witness stands they never referenced
PTSD no and I totally think that could be a factor I do too which I believe is why this case is coming
(46:40):
up back in the news in May of 2024 Lyle and Eric's attorneys began making the argument that based on
Eric's letter to his cousin in 1988 both brothers were being unlawfully imprisoned I mean if they
win holy cow Shelby look out there's going to be another lawsuit oh yes what it sounds like
(47:04):
there's currently something on Paramount Plus that's streaming called the Menendez brothers
fight for freedom so if you want to know more about this case absolutely go and watch that
as we wait for the new judge's decision in 2024 I have not watched it I do get Paramount Plus
so I do have this on my viewing list I just haven't gotten to it yet yeah I'd be interested
(47:27):
to watch it yeah I mean I guess because too he was just at Crime Con as well pretty much talking
about the same thing I really find it fascinating that this case is coming back into the news
headlines yeah me too you know I think they deserve a second chance at life and I'm interested in
watching the new streaming I'm pretty sure a few years ago that that's where I learned about
(47:49):
this case was there was some kind of documentary on ID channel so it'd be interesting to kind of
see it turn around a little bit all right well that in a nutshell is the story of the Menendez
brothers one of the infamous cases that gave court tv its name and opened the door to true crime
(48:10):
podcasters like us we would love to receive feedback on this storyline or any of our other
episodes so make sure you dms on instagram so there you have it shelves right well thank you
for sharing the story with us today do you have a teachable moment I believe I do gosh it's been a
while since I've had a teachable moment here I can't help but to think that this case never
(48:34):
should have gotten as far as it did Jose and Kitty's murders never should have happened children
who are sexually abused are far more likely to experience emotional challenges later in life
clearly that happened with the Menendez brothers and traumas such as what Lyle and Eric allegedly
(48:54):
endured do interfere with future relationships Shelby according to the independent inquiry
child sexual abuse organization sexual abuse is also linked with physical challenges such as
hypertension chronic fatigue malnutrition mobility and problems with reproductive systems and child
(49:16):
birth so there are lifelong challenges here we just need to be mindful of all the warning signs
which can be a very long list of both psychological and physical I just encourage our listeners to go
look up the warning signs then be mindful if any of these pop up amongst someone that you know it
(49:38):
could be a family member or even a child in the neighborhood don't be afraid to pick up the phone
and report it to the authorities if you truly believe that someone is being sexually abused
it's better to have someone investigated and come up with unsubstantial findings rather than the
other way around which clearly happened here in the Menendez brothers case and that's my teachable
(50:03):
moment I think that's a good one thanks well thanks for listening to dying to be found true
crime podcast before we go we would love for you to follow us on tiktok instagram twitter facebook
and pinterest at dying to be found if you have a storyline that you would like to hear click on
our link tree account found in our show notes where you can also find our social media website
(50:27):
address and a little bit more don't forget to give us that five star review to help us out in the
ratings talk to you soon
(51:03):
you
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that
(00:06):
episodes may contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals
and or humankind. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
I said we'd be back and here we are. Thank you so much for hanging in with us. We did take a
(00:32):
little hiatus to work on other amazing projects that I have already gotten out there on social
media. Mary Ann, also known as the social detective, and I are partnering up to bring you a
different kind of podcast where we advocate to create a much needed change in our criminal
and social justice systems. Now, there are six brand new episodes out there waiting for you
(00:58):
at Insinuation Podcast. Be sure to check that out wherever you find your podcasts at. I think
you're really going to like it. In the meantime, Dying to be Found is entering our third season
where family members will still be dropping in. Only we are going to bring you monthly episodes
instead of weekly and we appreciate everyone who has reached out to say, please do not stop
(01:24):
with your episodes because we love Dying to be Found and I appreciate that. So we heard you,
we're listening, we're just going to be dropping once a month because I did discover the importance
to work on my own self-care by spreading out my time. I do love you all too much to stop now
and today my daughter Shelby is joining me here for our season three opener. Hi Shelby, how are you?
(01:50):
Hello, I'm so good. I was just thinking while you were reading kind of the intro that we have not
recorded since we were getting ready to go to Jodi Massina. That was back in February.
Yeah, all right. You ready to get started? I know that people don't like small talk so we're just
going to get going here. Yep, I'm ready. I think that we could both say that as human beings we
(02:13):
do go through growing pains mainly around those teenage years. Wouldn't you agree Shelby? Absolutely.
I feel like teenagers on all sides of the teenage spectrum. Yes and they do say what goes around
comes around tenfold. Twice for me. Well I'm not going to lie you tested me a little bit during
(02:35):
your teenage years and I'm glad that we can laugh about it now because I was thinking about this
Shelby and as Forrest Gump says, life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're going
to get. But in the end I do feel like I have my best friend here with me today. Oh same. Yeah,
yeah. So how is teenage life going for you at home? So far I would say the last week has been
(03:01):
pretty quiet. Just the last week? The last few months have been a complete roller coaster.
Yes, I know and you never know when that's going to happen either do you? No. Life is full of
surprises. Well today we are going to be talking about Lyle and Eric Menendez, two brothers living
(03:21):
in California who spoiler alert Shelby ended up killing both of their parents back in 1989.
I remember this. How do you know this story? Because I love true crime. Oh I got you. Okay,
we're going to get into that act in just a little bit but as I was researching this case I was
(03:45):
seeing a lot of articles dated just this year Shelby. So there looks like there's new movement
in this case which leads me to believe that the Menendez brothers may be released from prison
sooner rather than later. Really? Yeah, have you not seen anything in the news? I have not. I think
(04:05):
because I was researching I came across those articles and I was very surprised because I know
what they did. I know they should be serving out the rest of their life in prison but we don't know
that for sure and I will go back to the beginning right now but we'll get into that a little bit
later. Joseph Lyle Menendez was born on January 10th 1968 to Jose and Mary Louise also known as
(04:30):
Kitty whom I will reference for the rest of this episode and Eric Galen Menendez was born two years
later on November 27th 1970. The two boys came from a very affluent background. Their grandfather
played for a professional soccer team in Cuba and their mother was a swimmer who was elected to Cuba's
(04:53):
Hall of Fame. I thought that was really interesting. That is interesting. I knew they were wealthy I
didn't know how though. Yeah exactly me too. Well their son Jose Menendez which is Lyle and Eric's
father eventually migrated to the United States when he was 16 years old during the Cuban Revolution.
(05:14):
Oh that's close to the age that I migrated to the United States huh. Jose followed in his parents
footsteps by earning a swimming scholarship during college in the United States where he met his
beauty queen future wife Mary Louise Kitty Anderson. Jose eventually went out to work as a CPA before
(05:35):
getting into the music industry where he became the head of RCA Records. During his tenure with
RCA Records he did give a few bands their start and you may have heard of them a Shelby more so
80s music and that was my era Duran Duran and the Eurythmics. These are two of my favorite bands
(05:57):
and I don't know if you've heard of this one it's a Puerto Rican band. Menudo have you heard of them?
No I have not I don't think I've heard of the Eurythmics either I know Duran Duran. Okay well
Menudo I believe had Ricky Martin in the band like it was like a boy band of its time so yeah
I think that's where he got his start. This band will come up briefly a little bit later in the
(06:20):
episode but for now as Jose continued to climb the corporate ladder he eventually moved his family
from New Jersey to Los Angeles where he worked in the entertainment industry in music and as a film
executive so he's just really expanding his reach here which is cool. By 1988 Jose's net worth was
(06:43):
14 million dollars that's back in 1988 so you know that's a ton of cash today. Oh for sure yeah and
his family could certainly afford the luxurious lifestyle of the rich and famous. Jose purchased
a family home in Beverly Hills living amongst some of the most elite artists like Michael Jackson
(07:06):
and Elton John. Could you imagine having Michael Jackson or Elton John in your neighborhood?
I could not. That is pretty cool because here in the Atlanta area it's not uncommon for people to
have Atlanta Braves living in your neighborhood or Atlanta Falcons. Well I'm nowhere near the big
(07:27):
city so I don't think there's probably anybody famous that lives within a hundred mile radius
of me. Probably not but I think that there was a famous baseball player that started out in one of
your towns nearby. Catfish Hunter. Yeah Catfish Hunter. All right well let's talk about Jose's
personality for a moment. I think it's important to set the scene here based on later court
(07:48):
testimonies. Jose was known to be a bit of a jerk around town. I mean a lot of people work their way
to the top through sheer ruthlessness. I think in the corporate world that's pretty much how you do
it. You step on people on the way up right? Oh for sure. Although Jose was very intelligent and
business savvy his co-workers on the whole disliked him. Oh I know I mean I'm sure you've worked with
(08:14):
people that you didn't like. I know I have. I certainly have. It's difficult. Yeah I hope that
nobody would ever look at me and think that. I always try to be very respectful. I do have my
days. Yesterday was one of them. I think there's a difference though of being diplomatic in your
(08:34):
approach to communication versus just being a jerk. You know what I mean? Oh for sure yeah.
So the general consensus was that Jose did come across as rude, arrogant, and pretty abrasive
during his interactions with others. And this didn't just happen in the workplace. Jose was
also known to be very stern with his two boys Lyle and Eric while they were growing up. I was just
(08:59):
thinking before you went to this paragraph that I bet that that rude, arrogant, abrasive you know
behavior was definitely coming home too. Oh yeah it's ingrained in the personality I think. You're
not going to change from one personality to the next just because you're in work versus home
environments. Unfortunately for Kitty he had lots of extramarital affairs and didn't really treat
(09:24):
Kitty much differently from their children. I did find a few articles where he was abusive towards
her but more so towards the boys. As the Menendez brothers grew up Lyle began playing tennis and did
pretty well. He was naturally ranked in his age group and I'm thinking about this Shelby because
you play travel softball so you know you have those age groups that you're in. And he seemed to be
(09:50):
following in Jose's footsteps as a successful businessman as well because you know he's older,
he's in his 20s so he's beginning to find his way in life. I don't think Lyle was doing this on his
own though due to his competitive nature Jose worked Lyle very hard at tennis practice. So
(10:10):
there's a little bit of a difference between Lyle and Eric because Eric was a swimmer. He's
following in his mother's footsteps. One of Eric's swimming coaches had told a reporter at some point
in time that Jose was one of those overbearing parents on the sidelines who interfered with
(10:32):
Eric's performance which really damaged Eric's self-confidence. Oh goodness now that's tough
Shelby and here's why. I just mentioned that you played travel softball. I mean me personally I
stayed away from parents like that. I saw them out on the field and some of the kids that you
played with had a hard time meeting the expectations of their very own parents and that is why I kept
(10:58):
books. I just needed to stay away from all that. Grown-ups are terrible about the drama. Exactly.
Oh my gosh just these you know high school soccer games. I remember one game in particular Ian's
senior year and it was you know these parents are cussing on the sidelines and some of these kids
on the field are 15 years old. You know they're ninth graders. It's so sad. I mean I can only
(11:20):
imagine if they're not you know meeting performance expectations during the event what are those kids
having to hear on the way home and that's just not right. Yeah I don't think I ever did that to you.
I think it's just like you know you're talented. You go do your thing. You know I was very proud
of you but if you had a bad day you had a bad day. Oh yeah everybody's entitled to that. Yeah nobody's
(11:42):
perfect. All right well we're going to go ahead and skip ahead to August 18th 1989 when Lyle
age 21 at the time and Eric age 18 took a road trip to San Diego and stopped at a local sporting
goods store to make a purchase. Two grown adults just going for a ride Shelby and I do want to
kind of emphasize that both of them are considered adults even though Eric just turned 18. He's in my
(12:10):
mind still a teenager really doesn't have that maturity level with him yet but then Lyle is 21.
I mean he's still getting there but has a few years on Eric and I wanted to give you a little
bit of a perspective on this drive. The distance between Los Angeles where they lived in San Diego
was about 120 miles or 193 kilometers which took about two hours to travel. I mean honestly that's
(12:39):
nothing because you live in the car I live in the car we love our road trips right. Yes we do I
actually that's about the mileage I had to drive last weekend to go get my kid. Well this wasn't
just any old road trip the two men and I say men because they are they had gone on a mission to
purchase some 12 gauge shotguns that they would use two days later to pump 15 rounds into the
(13:04):
parents as they sat watching television and I mean Jose and Kitty were watching television.
The brothers didn't purchase handguns Shelby they purchased rifles that are known for home defense
and also for hunting large game birds or military defense. Those are the kind of weapons that these
(13:24):
two men purchased on a two-hour road trip. They had the intent to kill there was no maybe they'll
make it through it. Oh yeah totally premeditated. Well one day after those shotguns were purchased
Jose and Kitty took Lyle and Eric out on a yachting excursion for the day just one day and then one
(13:44):
day later after that Shelby the brothers executed both parents as they were in the living room
watching a television show winding down for the day. That's horrific. It is they never saw it coming.
Nope. Now immediately following this ambush the Menendez brothers changed into clean clothes.
(14:05):
They went to a local movie theater to purchase Batman tickets. They dumped the guns that they
had just used to kill their parents and headed back home only to air quote discover their parents
had been murdered. Wow. Now Lyle was the one to call 911 saying that someone had killed their
(14:26):
parents while he and Eric were out for the night. So here the investigation begins. Of course the
brothers are going to be questioned on their whereabouts during the evening. They devised
their story so well of going out to the movie theater that nobody really questioned it. And I
do kind of want to point out to Shelby that this was 1989 well before closed circuit television
(14:52):
and the true crime explosion where everybody's watching you know things were a little bit simpler
back then and taking their word for it I think was a big factor as well. When police first arrived on
scene they found Eric sobbing on the front lawn of his parents home when responding to that 911
(15:15):
call. Of course these two very clean cut wealthy boys could have nothing to do with this right.
Good acting. For sure. Now although there was no sign of forced entry neither Lyle nor Eric were on
the investigators radar. I had just mentioned it was a simpler time simpler life these kids are
(15:38):
coming from a wealthy background. They were never even tested for gunshot residue. Besides going to
the movies Lyle and Eric also threw in that they had to backtrack to pick up Eric's ID. I guess they
wanted that little bit of cushion as far as timing. They had said that he had left that behind before
(15:58):
heading back and making their discovery. Investigators either believed the brothers and simply did not
follow up or they just didn't follow up with any of the movie theater employees to corroborate this
story because I found that a little odd that the police would not go and interview any of the
employees to verify that Eric and Lyle had showed back up to get an ID because they would have had
(16:25):
something behind the counter in the lost and found. Police just didn't follow up on this.
Yeah that's a hard spot for them to be in. I mean when you have two wealthy parents that just
parents in general that have just died at that kind of manner and then the last thing that I would
think is that it'd be their kids. Oh yes. But I guess that's why when you're a law enforcement
(16:48):
you have to put those feelings aside. Well we do know that based on Eric's demeanor immediately
following his parents murder plus during the police interviews that he was just straight up a mess.
And this was Eric. Lyle on the other hand was calm cool and collected throughout the entire
(17:08):
investigation and even suggested at some point that he believed that it could have been a mob hit.
Of course he made that suggestion Shelby about the mob because he had just killed his parents
and you could not act your way out of this one. No that'd be really hard. It seems like Eric though
you know they had so much adrenaline leading up to the moment and during the moment of that happening
(17:33):
and it's probably just set in with him like oh my gosh like they are gone they're not coming back.
Yeah and I don't know the dynamics of the brothers relationship. I mean typically siblings are very
close but clearly Lyle is the leader here because he was the one that was following in his dad's
footsteps as far as a businessman. Eric was still on the young side and I would consider to be just
(17:58):
a little bit of a follower. But Lyle and Eric continue to stick to their story over the next
six months. That of being at the movies when their parents were murdered. But here are where things
get a little bit strange and you can say that Lyle and Eric's behavior became a little bizarre
(18:18):
became a little bizarre in that six-month period Shelby. On the day of Jose and Kitty's funeral
Lyle showed off some shoes that he was wearing during his limo ride. He happened to be sharing
this limo with Jose's secretary and a few others and thought it would be great to break the ice
and engage in some small talk. During the limo ride Lyle pointed at the loafers that he had
(18:42):
taken from his own father's closet to wear at the funeral and nonchalantly asked his fellow passengers
quote who said I couldn't fill my father's shoes unquote. Lyle then went on to wonder aloud how he
could get tickets to the US Open which was scheduled to take place August 28th through
(19:03):
September 10th 1989 just three days after Jose and Kitty's funeral. In case you don't know what
the US Open is it's a big tennis tournament and going from here Shelby things just became a little
suss because as Lyle and Eric continued to live the high life for the next six months they did
go on living their best life after killing their parents like nothing ever happened because just
(19:29):
six days after their parents death Lyle decided to go on a shopping spree that would clearly cheer
him up I mean what better thing to do besides go to the US Open go do some shopping. I'm curious
because you know I see this a lot at work when you have a lot of money you have financial advisors
involved and you know there's trust set up and and all of that kind of stuff so did they and maybe
(19:54):
you'll get to this but are they stealing the credit cards from the parents do they have an allowance
I'm just wondering where they're getting this money from. I did not see one article that said
that they have a trustee so I'm going to assume they were using credit cards but I'm not there
I don't know specifically it was just very clear that they were going on shopping sprees because
(20:19):
they came up with some pretty good merchandise they paid over $15,000 for not one but three
Rolex watches. I have a lot of other things in mind that I could spend $15,000 on and it does
not involve three watches. No it sure doesn't that doesn't even buy a car these days but back then it
(20:40):
was a pretty big chunk they could buy the watches and they probably didn't think twice about it
because the money was running fluidly I think through the house now Lyle and Eric moved out
of their 3.5 million dollar home and that's about 7.5 million dollars today Shelby and went to stay
in expensive hotels before leasing a condominium where they had adjoining apartments to make sure
(21:07):
that they always had enough room to party and I'd ask why they didn't just stay in their LA home but
it was probably still taped off they could have been giving off the persona that they did not want
to stay there with the trauma that they endured I mean I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why they
did not just stay in the family home yeah if I had offed someone like that I wouldn't want to stay
(21:32):
there either not that I would ever do that well like Lyle Eric also enjoyed his Rolexes but he
also liked to gamble Eric hired a tennis coach to hopefully help him get good enough to go pro
but remember Shelby Eric is 18 years old and he was the swimmer between the two brothers to me
(21:54):
he started a little bit too late to go pro in tennis but he did fly to the Middle East to compete
in some tournaments in all Lyle and Eric spent a minimum of 1 million dollars from their parents'
estate in about six months while going on all those shopping sprees and various excursions
Eric had decided not to attend UCLA where he was scheduled to attend in the fall he opted for those
(22:20):
professional tennis lessons which by the way cost sixty thousand dollars he invested in a rock concert
that never happened and bought himself a Jeep Wrangler Lyle returned to Princeton University
in New Jersey but it was just for show Shelby he continued on with more shopping sprees which
(22:41):
consisted of buying clothes a Porsche and a restaurant that he had hoped would eventually
turn into a franchise under his newly formed LLC called Menendez Investment Enterprises
that's a great name and if he's business savvy aside from the fact of what he's dealing with
and what he's hiding behind he had some good ventures there oh yeah especially you know at
(23:07):
a younger age for good measure Lyle and Eric made one more investment they both began therapy with
Dr. Jerome Ozeal to help get themselves through their parents' death Dr. Ozeal was already known
to Eric because a year earlier he had burglarized some homes in Los Angeles and was court ordered
(23:29):
to attend therapy in order to avoid jail time okay you see what money can buy here it gets you out
of jail free just go to a therapy session or two right and you're free yeah not just anybody is
going to be given that option I'm gonna say if they burglarized a home they're gonna go to jail
at least for a year do some community service but nope not the Menendez brothers now we know
(23:54):
that all good things eventually come to an end and during all of this shopping partying and shaking
Jose and Kitty's money tree Eric was really beginning to unravel internally he was the one
on the front lawn visibly upset when the police came that night and cracks from the pressure of
(24:16):
what he and Lyle had done were beginning to form Eric ultimately developed an ulcer from all the
stress of keeping their dirty little secret I get it some people just can't handle the pressure
especially at this level of secrecy but yeah he was becoming physically sick over all of this and
I can understand why during one of his therapy sessions with Dr. Oseale Eric spilled it all and
(24:43):
confessed everything wow now we do know that there is doctor client privileges and typically a
therapist is not obligated to report what was said during a patient's therapy session I think this is
an exception though yeah you would think but Eric probably felt safe in doing so in that space
(25:04):
because he was probably aware of those privileges and Dr. Oseale did hold up his end of the bargain
at least as far as reporting the Menendez brothers to the authorities he didn't do it
it was his mistress whom he had confided in who reported Lyle and Eric to the police Dr. Oseale
(25:24):
had let her listen to one of Lyle and Eric's taped therapy sessions wow I know right can you imagine
oh my goodness I have the juiciest gossip you're just not gonna believe this listen to what I
recorded could you imagine somebody coming to you and letting you listen to something like that and
then swear to secrecy not to tell right no all right well don't think that his mistress was doing
(25:49):
anything right here because apparently she and her lover had a somewhat tumultuous relationship
and immediately following an alleged attack by the good doctor she took her copies yes I said
copies she had copies of this tape she took the copies of Eric and Lyle's take confessions from
(26:10):
that therapy session straight to the police how in the world did she get copies how did she get
copies I mean if she's at home and he's at work I'm sure that she did a little digging snooping
around got the little tape recorder out easy to do when you had cassette tapes shelves you wouldn't
understand I know what that is I watched the Long Island medium she uses those oh wow on March 8th
(26:39):
1990 203 days after Jose and Kitty's murder Lyle Menendez was arrested authorities could not yet
arrest Eric in the same day because he was currently in Israel playing a tennis match
news did reach him however that Lyle had been arrested and Eric flew home voluntarily where he
(27:02):
too was arrested for the murders of his parents on March 11th 1990 so three days after Lyle even
though the Menendez brothers were arrested for what we call as parasite that's another word for
the murder of one's parents the case stalled for several years Lyle and Eric would later be tried
(27:24):
at the same time but they did have separate trials so that they each had their own jury and
that they each had their own jury the judge overseeing this case originally ruled that
portions from both Lyle's and Eric's taped therapy sessions would be admissible in court after Eric
was heard threatening Dr. Oseal's life during one of his taped therapy sessions this in turn broke
(27:51):
the doctor patient confidentiality oh my god I know right well defense lawyers appealed this ruling
and the case dragged on for another 30 months until the supreme court weighed in and said get
on with it these men are entitled to a speedy trial I get it I mean that is one of the things
(28:12):
that's supposedly great about the United States is that you are entitled to a speedy trial but
you hear about so many people remaining behind bars for years before that trial gets started
um-hmm defined speedy will you great two of the three therapy sessions were ruled admissible as
evidence one of which contained Lyle's own words saying what he had done Eric was also heard on
(28:37):
these tapes that although he fired first Lyle fired best on December 7th 1992 the Menendez
Brothers trial began the news media went into a frenzy and court tv had round the clock coverage
of the trial plus additional commentaries before and after each day's testimonies and Shelby this
(29:02):
is really where the door opened up to true crime drama because court tv made a name for itself
during this trial which had come just before the infamous OJ Simpson trial back in 1994 I could see
that yeah I mean I remember it was all over everything was live and I'd be running home and
(29:23):
turning on the tv and seeing what I could pick up since I had just worked eight hours and it was a
constant at this point in time the sensationalism of this trial was pretty crazy both parents were
murdered by two handsome young rich white men dressed in pastel sweaters during their trial
(29:43):
and that was a big talking point too the news media was all over how the Menendez Brothers
dressed for their trials really some of the key talking points during their trial are as follows
defense attorney Leslie Abramson set the stage with the story of both brothers enduring years
(30:03):
enduring years of verbal and sexual abuse from a highly controlling father now up until this point
Shelby not one word of sexual abuse but when the trial began their lawyer really argued that point
Lyle testified that he had been molested by his father between the ages of six and eight Eric
(30:27):
testified that he was molested as well beginning at the age of eight but continuously through the
age of 18 therefore Lyle and Eric killed both parents in self-defense I don't think I was
self-defense yeah I'm sure there are legalities involved with that statement right there because
(30:49):
I didn't see anything where the boys were being physically attacked when they committed the
murders I'm not really sure but I'm just thinking Kitty got in the middle of this I think the mom
was stuck in the middle too I really do I mean you can only do so much to protect your children from
an angry father who had that personality type that I had described I'm sure that he didn't like it
(31:14):
too much if she got involved now Abramson also painted Kitty as an alcoholic and drug addict
who was devastated by her ever cheating husband remember Shelby he didn't really hide his
extra marital affairs from his wife it was a constant in their relationship so she just dealt
(31:34):
with that openly the best that she could Abramson also went on to argue that Lyle and Eric simply
could not take it anymore and they had decided just weeks before the murders that they were
going to confront Jose with their allegations of abuse but when it was all said and done
Eric's jury deadlocked on a verdict on January 10th 1994 Lyle's jury deadlocked two weeks later
(32:02):
both cases were declared a mistrial and prosecutors and the defense had to start all over again wow
this has gone on forever it really did go on a very long time and I almost think this is probably
why you remember it because it took seven years to find Lyle and Eric Menendez guilty of murdering
(32:24):
their parents so this would have been on the news when you were growing up now it did take that
seven years because during their first trial both Lyle and Eric's lawyers painted that rather
disturbing picture of the boys upbringing in the Menendez household now remember that I had told
you about Jose's personality how his co-workers perceived him to be somewhat of a jerk the
(32:48):
brothers stated that they were going to confront Jose with the sexual assault allegations with the
intentions of making this go public if Jose did not stop so it sounds to me like they were planning
to blackmail him maybe that's what it sounds like just let me repeat this I had mentioned this at
(33:09):
the beginning of this episode Lyle was 21 Eric was 18 so I'm a little bit surprised I'm not going to
say that it was an easy decision but why are they waiting until now to confront Jose here I'm sure
there's a lot of reasons why they were waiting and things can build up you can only take so much
(33:29):
right well with Lyle being 21 it makes me wonder if there was a little alcohol encouragement yeah
I never thought of that well for good measure don't forget Lyle and Eric had taken that road
trip down to San Diego a four-hour round trip from Los Angeles to purchase those shotguns in fear
of retaliation from Jose you know because he was a jerk that to me I thought was a little strange
(33:55):
a little strange as well for the fact that they went ahead and made that trip because they were
already thinking Jose was going to retaliate I mean when you're being accused of doing something
like that Jose was probably going to blow up pretty big oh yeah well the brothers did what they did
and their first trial was televised for the world to see the general public didn't like the defense's
(34:19):
argument about the Menendez brothers being sexually abused and neither did the prosecutors
now here's why Lyle and Eric went on that one million dollar spending spree and partied it up
for six months after they had just killed their parents the brothers were perceived to be whining
on the stand while giving their testimony their temperaments did not come across as showing real
(34:45):
emotion so a lot of people felt that they were just acting the whole time which gave the general
public and most likely the jury members the impression that things simply were not adding
up here and besides that Shelby not one therapist friend or family member got on the stand to
(35:05):
corroborate the brothers allegations of sexual abuse by their father now I once again never will
discount that this type of abuse occurs Shelby if this was Lyle and Eric's truth I'm not here to
judge it child molestation is despicable and no one should ever get away with that unfortunately
(35:26):
Lyle and Eric didn't just come across as believable when they went on the stand to testify you know
how people look upset and even act like they're crying but you never see those tears that's how
they came across on the stand that was the public's image now the public really wasn't having any of
(35:47):
it and in October 1993 while the trial was still going on John Malkovich you know him right no
I don't famous actor oh you've never heard of John Malkovich okay you can go look him up but he is a
famous actor you know how actors typically go on Saturday Night Live well he played Lyle Menendez
(36:10):
on Saturday Night Live speaking in a very flat voice and fake crying and the live audience
absolutely loved it I think there's a lot of misconceptions there too I mean if you're going
to talk about insinuations like my insinuation podcast I mean that's the whole thing is there's
so many insinuations here and people are jumping to conclusions you just have to get all the facts
(36:35):
before you should do that so going into both cases Shelby we know that there was a declared
mistrial the second trial took place in 1995 only this time the judge overseeing the trial
refused to allow tv cameras in the courtroom for any of this second go-round because we saw what a
(36:56):
circus it was the first go-round the judge I think used a little bit of discretion that second time
he felt there was too much publicity from that first trial which could have been one of the
reasons why the juries resulted in deadlock I kind of agree with that because it really was
quite a circus yeah I think he made a smart decision he also ruled that there was insufficient
(37:21):
evidence of any alleged abuse by Jose against his boys nor the possibility that Lyle and Eric
had killed in self-defense out of fear okay so you know what I mean I kind of wonder this too
did he get some of his of his own predispositions because of what he saw on this televised court
(37:44):
case before he became the judge in the second trial I kind of wondered that that's possible
now remember how I told you the band Muno would come out into play here yes well one of the band
members eventually came forward years later to say that he too had been sexually abused by
Jose Menendez so this is now opening the Menendez brothers original allegations into question so
(38:12):
the judge is saying I'm not really sure there's enough evidence but a famous band member comes
forward to say hey this happened to me too so I guess my question is is why did he not come
forward sooner during the first trial we'll never know and again that's his truth and you can't ever
really judge anybody as to why they're not going to say anything I was just curious as to why he
(38:37):
waited until the second trial seven years and two trials later Lyle and Eric Menendez were both found
guilty of murdering their parents and both were convicted of two counts of first degree murder
Lyle and Eric were sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison without the possibility of
(38:57):
parole California's like that man if you get sentenced for life you will live and die in prison
wow gosh they're so young I know they really were because we're going to jump ahead to today's day
and age Lyle is currently 55 Eric is 52 they are now both housed in the same correctional facility
(39:18):
in San Diego initially Shelby when they first went off to prison they were sent to separate prisons
but they were reunited in 2018 both Lyle and Eric work on campus on beautification projects plus
council inmates who were sexually abused wow I mean they're doing good things behind bars
(39:40):
what it sounds like yeah and Lyle went on to get credentials in sociology so he has earned a bachelor's
degree while behind bars which Shelby I actually do love when I hear that inmates do go on to get
a degree because they are rehabilitating and it does sound like he is trying to be proactive
(40:02):
in his own ways oh for sure Lyle and Eric eventually married Lyle married a former model
but soon divorced when he began to have another relationship with a different woman whom he
eventually married in 2003 and is still married to today wow there's always somebody that's going
to contact an inmate Eric married a pen pal in 1999 and is still married as well wow I mean are
(40:31):
you happy for them uh yeah yeah it sounds like they're doing good things okay I don't know they're
put in such a hard situation I think and I think that they're just trying to make the best of it
I think so too yeah I mean they are definitely being proactive but don't think we're done
because here comes the twist remember Shelby at the very beginning of this episode when I told
(40:57):
you that there were a ton of new articles on the Menendez brothers case as in this year yes Lyle
had told Rosie O'Donnell in a September 2023 interview that if he ever gets out of prison
he will continue on with his life's work to help rehabilitate inmates who are victims of sexual
(41:18):
abuse in March 2024 Newsweek reported that Fox Nation was streaming a four-part series about
this case Lyle is quoted in numerous recent articles saying that he and Eric should have
received an eight to ten year conviction for manslaughter at best but wound up receiving a
(41:42):
sentence comparable to a serial killer he's not wrong but I'm kind of sensing a little bit of
entitlement here after 35 years what are your thoughts to that I'm curious as to not what he
has to say but if that's actually true because I mean they were so young and I don't know the
(42:02):
stipulations really between first second degree murder versus manslaughter but to me I think two
consecutive life sentences like I mean what they did was very very serious but I do think that it
was a little harsh for coming just considering what they went through as children how other
(42:22):
people perceived how you know Jose was treating them I think it was harsh definitely guilty yeah
definitely and it was a cut-and-dry case but there's so many different elements and factors
involved like how the sexual abuse came up later during the trial that was never mentioned before
(42:44):
but then you're dealing with these young men who just lost their parents but they're out partying
so you just have to go with the facts right now let me tell you in my opinion just from everything
that I've read Lyle Menendez seems to be the spokesperson these days because Shelby you're
not going to believe this you and I talked about going to CrimeCon in Nashville this year we did
(43:08):
we didn't make it but guess who did Lyle Lyle oh Lyle participated in a telephone interview
at CrimeCon in Nashville Tennessee which I did actually go look up and listen to it for a few
minutes and I mean he's a very well versed man again I think that there's a lot of information
(43:30):
coming out right now because the brothers have been trying to prove that the abuse from their
father really did happen and again if this is their truth it needs to be validated but here are some
arguments that I believe Shelby Lyle and Eric do deserve to have their cases revisited number one
I had mentioned the Menudo band member who came forward with those allegations that Jose had also
(43:57):
abused him so that's new evidence that was never presented at trial number one Eric Menendez wrote
a letter to his cousin back in 1988 a year before these murders occurred which happened to resurface
in 2018 and corroborates the fact that the brothers had been sexually abused he had written a letter
(44:21):
to his cousin to say hey this is going on the letter lay tucked in a drawer somewhere until
2018 when it was discovered I believe Eric's cousin is deceased at this point in time so when
his family members were going through his things I believe that's when they found it now both Lyle
and Eric have always maintained that they killed their parents through self-defense after suffering
(44:46):
from their abuse and PTSD wow Shelby did I mention PTSD one time during this episode no yeah so
psychology today references numerous legal cases that can potentially back up the Mendez brothers
claims of parental abuse New Jersey State versus Kelly in 1984 refers to a case where a woman's
(45:12):
murder conviction was overturned on appeal after it was determined that she had suffered from
battered spouse syndrome Rogers versus Florida State in 1993 states that PTSD should have been
considered during the Menendez brothers trials not once was that brought up in court and I
(45:34):
don't know if you could even reference cases that took place after a murder trial which the Menendez
brothers trials occurred in 1989 but I don't know if you can use these on appeal years later I suppose
you could because hindsight being the fact that PTSD was never introduced into the boys trials
(45:57):
but there's another case New Jersey State versus Hines in 1997 also referenced how an expert was
never asked to testify on the effects of PTSD when a defendant was convicted of manslaughter
after being abused by her father for years so similar to the Rogers versus Florida State
(46:19):
attorneys can come back later and argue that defense lawyers from 1989 were incompetent
kind of agree with that because they never had experts on the witness stands they never referenced
PTSD no and I totally think that could be a factor I do too which I believe is why this case is coming
(46:40):
up back in the news in May of 2024 Lyle and Eric's attorneys began making the argument that based on
Eric's letter to his cousin in 1988 both brothers were being unlawfully imprisoned I mean if they
win holy cow Shelby look out there's going to be another lawsuit oh yes what it sounds like
(47:04):
there's currently something on Paramount Plus that's streaming called the Menendez brothers
fight for freedom so if you want to know more about this case absolutely go and watch that
as we wait for the new judge's decision in 2024 I have not watched it I do get Paramount Plus
so I do have this on my viewing list I just haven't gotten to it yet yeah I'd be interested
(47:27):
to watch it yeah I mean I guess because too he was just at Crime Con as well pretty much talking
about the same thing I really find it fascinating that this case is coming back into the news
headlines yeah me too you know I think they deserve a second chance at life and I'm interested in
watching the new streaming I'm pretty sure a few years ago that that's where I learned about
(47:49):
this case was there was some kind of documentary on ID channel so it'd be interesting to kind of
see it turn around a little bit all right well that in a nutshell is the story of the Menendez
brothers one of the infamous cases that gave court tv its name and opened the door to true crime
(48:10):
podcasters like us we would love to receive feedback on this storyline or any of our other
episodes so make sure you dms on instagram so there you have it shelves right well thank you
for sharing the story with us today do you have a teachable moment I believe I do gosh it's been a
while since I've had a teachable moment here I can't help but to think that this case never
(48:34):
should have gotten as far as it did Jose and Kitty's murders never should have happened children
who are sexually abused are far more likely to experience emotional challenges later in life
clearly that happened with the Menendez brothers and traumas such as what Lyle and Eric allegedly
(48:54):
endured do interfere with future relationships Shelby according to the independent inquiry
child sexual abuse organization sexual abuse is also linked with physical challenges such as
hypertension chronic fatigue malnutrition mobility and problems with reproductive systems and child
(49:16):
birth so there are lifelong challenges here we just need to be mindful of all the warning signs
which can be a very long list of both psychological and physical I just encourage our listeners to go
look up the warning signs then be mindful if any of these pop up amongst someone that you know it
(49:38):
could be a family member or even a child in the neighborhood don't be afraid to pick up the phone
and report it to the authorities if you truly believe that someone is being sexually abused
it's better to have someone investigated and come up with unsubstantial findings rather than the
other way around which clearly happened here in the Menendez brothers case and that's my teachable
(50:03):
moment I think that's a good one thanks well thanks for listening to dying to be found true
crime podcast before we go we would love for you to follow us on tiktok instagram twitter facebook
and pinterest at dying to be found if you have a storyline that you would like to hear click on
our link tree account found in our show notes where you can also find our social media website
(50:27):
address and a little bit more don't forget to give us that five star review to help us out in the
ratings talk to you soon
(51:03):
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