October 9, 2024 • 52 mins
Between 1962 and 1964, the Boston Strangler was labeled as the person responsible for a series of murders in the Back Bay Area of Boston, MA. The victims, ranging in age from 19 to 85, were sexually assaulted and strangled, often in their homes. Albert DeSalvo, a handyman with a criminal history, eventually confessed to the killings, though doubts about his guilt linger due to inconsistencies and lack of physical evidence linking him to all the crimes. DNA evidence later tied DeSalvo to the final victim, but some experts believe more than one person may have been involved in the murders. The case remains one of the most notorious in American criminal history.
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Intro & Extro Music: Undersea World by Dragonov
Teachable Moments Music: Untold Story by Ballian De Moulle
REFERENCES:
- A Young Victim — The Boston Strangler — Crime Library
- Boston Strangler Case Solved 50 Years Later - ABC News
- DeSalvo Confesses — The Boston Strangler — Crime Library
- Did an Abusive Childhood Turn Albert DeSalvo Into the 'Boston Strangler' Serial Killer? - A&E True Crime
- How The Boston Strangler’s Identity Was Finally Confirmed | Serial Killers | Investigation Discovery
- The True Story Behind Hulu's 'Boston Strangler'
- The true story behind Hulu's new crime drama, 'Boston Strangler,' a serial killer who likely murdered 13 women in the 1960s without leaving a sign of struggle
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
(00:06):
Today's episode contains discussions on harmful acts and sexual assault against women.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Well hello everyone, welcome back to Dying to be Found where I love to say that this
(00:30):
is a family thing.
And you never know which family member will drop in to help me out because today Beth,
my sister from Canada, is here to listen along as we bring you quite the story.
Now Beth is intrigued with early era crime.
We're going to bump it up a little bit here today.
We don't typically do big headline news, but today's episode has been in the pipeline
(00:55):
for quite some time.
So here we go.
How are you Beth?
I'm great.
How are you?
I am wonderful.
It is so good to be back.
I have to say I've missed everybody.
I've missed you and we're just going to get right back into things.
I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this storyline and what is new.
(01:16):
Anything?
Not a lot.
I'm just very happy to be back.
This feels like home.
Oh, I love to hear that.
I feel the same way.
And guess what else is going to feel like home?
What?
I have not been back to Canada.
Do you know how long it's been?
Since 2006.
Wow.
You're going to notice such a big difference.
(01:37):
Yes.
I'm sure you've had urban sprawl.
Well, I talked to you a while back about our bucket list and the places that we want to
go see and remind me before we get started, where would you like to visit that you've
never been?
I guess Ireland and Scotland.
Oh my gosh.
We have got to plan a trip.
I would love to go up there with you.
(01:58):
That would be amazing.
We'll have to go on one of those old people tours.
Okay.
Well, first of all, I'm not classifying myself as old, so I don't know if I will qualify,
but send me the link.
Well, by the time I can afford it, you'll qualify.
Okay.
So we'll stay a little bit local.
We are in North America today because one of the places that I would like to go, and
(02:22):
I've told you this before, I love historical cities.
There's so much going on in that space.
It's like you're walking on the same cobblestone sidewalks as historical figures.
But in this case, I'm not real proud to say that today because we're on our way to Boston.
Oh.
Yeah.
Boston is known.
(02:43):
It's one of the very first established American colonies.
Is it?
It is.
And, you know, honestly, I grew up learning about Canadian geography, not American geography,
but I've been here so long that I pretty much know it just as much as I do Canada now.
Boston is also known as the historical backdrop to the American Revolution, which helped to
(03:04):
establish the US Declaration of Independence.
If you've ever heard of the Boston Marathon, the Boston Red Sox, and most importantly,
Beth, I know you'll appreciate this.
It's the birthplace of Samuel Adams Beer Company.
How about that?
I'm surprised you remember that's what I drink when I'm down in the States.
Oh, okay.
(03:24):
Well, I didn't, but thanks for the reminder.
Yeah, we should maybe plan a trip to Boston.
Maybe that's a little bit more affordable.
Boston and New York are the two states I really want to see.
Let's stop talking about it and do it.
Okay, we'll plan after this podcast.
Okay.
Now, we're going to begin today by talking about a man named Albert DeSalvo, who went
(03:49):
by numerous aliases, which I did not know until I started researching this case.
Do you know who Albert DeSalvo is, Beth?
You know what?
I was trying to think, do I know this name?
Could he be the Boston Strangler?
He is the Boston Strangler.
Yeah, I used to, as a kid, cut out clippings about the Boston Strangler and put it in my
(04:11):
scrapbook.
What?
Are you serious?
Oh my gosh.
I am.
That's why I thought that's got to be it's in Boston.
DeSalvo sounds familiar.
So I put a different title on the script because I was trying to throw Beth off a little bit.
I did for just a hot minute because she did not know one of the aliases that I'm going
(04:34):
to talk about.
She did not know that name.
Neither did I until I started researching.
But I'll explain to you, Beth, how he got his nicknames before things did elevate to
his most notorious name because Albert DeSalvo is the man, as you stated, behind the Boston
Strangler.
Okay.
Now I'm sitting here wondering, should I have been worried growing up knowing that you had
(04:55):
a scrapbook on serial killers?
How old were you when you had this scrapbook?
Let's see.
I'm going to guess in grade five or six.
So you would have been probably 11 or 12.
So you know how grandma always used to have that tabloid magazine.
Yes.
Well, I used to read it.
(05:16):
Oh, wow.
Yes.
She always let me take them home.
Okay.
So that would have made me probably about eight.
Still a little bit oblivious to the horrible things going on in the world.
But I do remember those tabloids.
And then dad would always get onto me when I bought them when I was visiting.
He'd be like, oh, that's just a bunch of trash.
Or quote unquote fake news.
(05:38):
Oh, fake news before it became fake news.
Huh?
All right.
So this case is not cut and dry.
DeSalvo's identity as the Boston Strangler was and still is up for debate going into
50 years after his arrest.
Did you know that?
He's specifically not been pegged as the Boston Strangler.
(06:02):
It's not cut and dry.
I didn't realize that because in one of the photos that I cut out from the magazine that
said such and such is the Boston Strangler or he said he was the Boston Strangler.
So yes.
And we're going to get into that because he is all sorts of full of confessions.
(06:22):
He's not a liar.
I will touch on that talking point in just a little bit because he's not a liar, Beth.
He comes out and tells you the truth.
Is he a good person?
No.
Did he do bad things?
Yes.
Is he a liar?
To a certain extent.
But when he wants to tell the truth about something, you'll see he's going to tell you the truth.
Oh.
(06:43):
Well, for all intense purposes, the police believe that DeSalvo is indeed the Boston
Strangler, but some of his family members still dispute that label.
Of course.
Yeah.
I know.
I don't think that I would want to be connected with somebody like that through my family
tree.
Now, during the time that these crimes occurred, Albert actually confessed.
(07:08):
But due to the lack of evidence, he simply could not be pinpointed as the Boston Strangler
who killed a total of at least 11 women over a two-year period.
Now, we'll get into that in just a moment, but let's first talk about Albert DeSalvo's
home life.
Albert DeSalvo was born to Frank and Charlotte DeSalvo on September 3rd, 1931 in Chelsea,
(07:33):
Massachusetts.
He was one of six children and was unfortunately raised, Beth, in an abusive household.
At a very young age, Albert would constantly witness his alcoholic father attacking his
mother where she suffered some pretty intense physical torture.
Albert had watched helplessly around the age of seven as his mother's fingers were broken
(07:58):
and her teeth were knocked out in front of him.
So some pretty severe stuff that I don't believe any child, regardless on who they grew up
to be, should ever witness.
Exactly.
That is, I had no idea that there was some torture involved in this and that's pretty
(08:19):
brutal.
It is.
And I mean, strange enough, Beth, I really didn't know much about this story at all.
I think honestly, I was probably too young for it, but over time it gets pushed into
the background because there's so much other stuff going on.
Right.
Well, as a child, Albert was no less fortunate because in a later interview, he had stated
(08:41):
that he himself was a victim of physical abuse where one time he received a blow to his back
with a metal pipe after he tried to scramble away from his dad.
He just didn't move fast enough.
Those were his words.
I just didn't get out of the way fast enough.
Albert also stated that he and his brother would be forced to stand in front of their
(09:02):
father every night only to be beaten with the buckle end of a belt.
I mean, that's horrible.
We know, Beth, that this stuff goes on behind closed doors, but it's just so sad to hear
it.
It is.
It really is.
I just, I don't know if there's a way to stop it.
(09:23):
I don't get what pleasure somebody would get out of doing that to their children.
Me neither.
If I could just, for just a moment, our listeners by now should know that we have a new podcast
out there called Insinuation Podcast.
That is actually one of our big talking points this season is how child abuse occurs constantly.
(09:45):
Even though there are different agencies involved, it still goes on.
Where's it going to stop?
Yeah.
So, Selvo claimed that he and his two sisters were at some point sold to a farmer in Maine
for the bargain price of $9.
That was when he was a child because in today's money value, that would be over $200.
(10:08):
That's disgusting.
It is.
And I can't say that that information could be verified, Beth, because there was really
nothing to corroborate what that storyline was that he had to say.
But he did tell authorities that he was gone for six months before their mother finally
tracked them down.
Could you imagine being on the search for your child?
(10:30):
No.
Very horrifying.
Yeah.
Well, De Selvo never clarified what had happened on that farm.
But let me just say that in everything I read, Albert De Selvo really didn't lie about his
confessions, which I had mentioned a little earlier.
He was very matter of fact and extremely upfront and truthful when providing police with information
(10:54):
during those later confessions.
It's almost Beth like he wanted to get everything off of his chest and give investigators everything
they needed.
The only thing holding back progress was the lack of evidence here, which again, we'll
talk about in just a bit.
I agree with you that I think he needed to get that off his chest.
I think that he did that quite a bit because he didn't have just one or two run ins with
(11:17):
the law.
He was very truthful every time he got caught.
So he wanted to get it off his conscience.
Clearly Albert was traumatized by his situation as he was growing up.
But when that happens, sometimes kids simply act out.
Albert's parents did eventually divorce and he went on to live with his mother.
(11:41):
From everything that I found Beth, they had a pretty good relationship.
Nice.
Yeah.
But by then Albert was a teenager and he was just simply making bad choices and getting
into trouble.
During his teenage years, Albert began racking up charges of assault and battery plus other
petty crimes that landed him in reform school.
(12:02):
By all appearances, he seemed to straighten up because by the age of 17, he did enlist
in the army.
He served eight years, met his bride, had two children and worked an honest living in
a manufacturing plant once he left the military.
But Beth behind this facade, Albert's dark side did begin to emerge and he began participating
(12:26):
in some very lewd acts, earning himself a nickname or two before being labeled as the
Boston Strangler.
We're going to move into the 1950s where in the Cambridge area, just outside of Boston,
a 20 something year old man went door to door claiming to be a talent scout.
If a young woman answered, he would introduce himself as Johnson and go through a scripted
(12:51):
speech that included several talking points.
Albert would start by saying that the young woman's name was given to him by someone who
thought they would make a good model.
He assured them that no nudity would be involved, only bathing suits, evening gowns and things
like that.
His agency was willing to pay the young woman $40 an hour.
(13:12):
Beth, this was in the 1950s where minimum wage was 75 cents an hour.
That's a heck of a lot of money.
I mean, it would sound good to me.
Absolutely.
Because the average weekly salary back in the 1950s was $30 a week.
So $40 an hour would definitely sound good to some of those women.
(13:34):
For sure.
I mean, I'm thinking back to when you and I were kids and our parents bought their house
where we grew up for $20,000.
Did they?
Yes, they did.
Oh my gosh.
Because think about it.
When I was a teenager, minimum wage was $3.35 an hour.
Here in Canada, I think it's around $19 an hour.
(13:57):
Now?
Yeah.
I'm thinking of upping it to $25.
Interesting that you say that because it's still $7.25 an hour here.
People can't live on that.
No, they really can't.
Well, if these women were interested in becoming a model, Johnson was required to take the
young woman's measurements and he's just so happy to carry a measuring tape with him.
(14:19):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I actually have one of those in my purse.
So do I.
And we find useful ways to use it, don't we?
Exactly.
Right.
After he was done, Johnson said that he would be in touch, which of course never happened.
And eventually some of the women caught on and called the police.
I mean, you know, a week or two goes by and I'm wondering why this guy never called me.
(14:43):
I don't know.
I guess the afterthoughts of, oh my goodness, this person came in and violated me.
I better call the police.
On March 17th, 1961, Albert DeSalvo was caught trying to break into a home.
And during his arrest, he admitted to being what the police had pegged him as the measuring
man.
(15:03):
What?
Because he had the measuring tape.
Oh, okay.
Isn't that something?
Yeah.
During this police interview, investigators asked DeSalvo why he did what he did.
And he answered, quote, I am not good looking.
I am not educated, but I was able to put something over on high class people.
They were all college kids and I never had anything in my life and I outsmarted them.
(15:29):
Unquote.
Kind of sounds like someone we know who liked to one up people.
Beth, does that sound familiar?
Yes.
Was that going through your head?
No, what was going through my head is, geez, this could be the Boston Strangler because
he one upped everybody.
Oh, well, you would know this more than me from the tabloids.
What do you know about him one upping people?
(15:51):
I don't.
I was too young.
I forgot.
DeSalvo ended up serving 18 months, but was released early on good behavior and was sent
back to his family.
But that was good behavior on the inside, not the outside of prison.
Once released, DeSalvo had additional arrests between the years of 1956 and 1960, ranging
(16:18):
from breaking and entering to indecent sexual behaviors.
In November 1964, DeSalvo was arrested again for a string of sexual assault charges.
One young woman who had gone back to bed after seeing her new husband off to work was awakened
suddenly to find a man standing over her bed with a knife to her throat, threatening to
(16:42):
kill her if she made a sound.
Oh, that is my worst fear.
That's why I keep my apartment door locked all the time.
After tying her to the bed, DeSalvo sexually assaulted this woman.
Now, this young lady had enough gumption to get a good look at the man who had assaulted
her as she was able to go to the police with a very good description of him.
(17:05):
The police created a sketch composite of someone who looked eerily similar to none other than
the measuring man who we now know is Albert DeSalvo.
DeSalvo was picked up rather quickly and called in for a lineup at the police station.
Standing behind the one-way mirror was his young victim who was able to positively identify
(17:28):
DeSalvo as the man who had attacked her.
So that's good.
Mm-hmm.
Now, I will say this.
I don't know how much time he served for being the measuring man.
I didn't see a ton of information on that, probably because he was overshadowed by later
activity, but I'm sure that he probably did some time for that.
(17:50):
For sure.
Especially if he had a witness.
Yeah.
Well, during his second string of assaults, DeSalvo was dubbed as the green man because
whoever was behind those attacks was a man who always wore green pants.
Now, I don't know if the police ever found those green pants with any issued search warrants
(18:11):
at the time.
I don't know.
I know things have changed as far as really needing to follow specific guidelines to get
a search warrant, but enough witnesses did give investigators information to label DeSalvo
as this green man assailant.
After his arrest, DeSalvo admitted to assaulting, get this, Beth, more than 300 women in four
(18:35):
states.
That's a heck of a lot.
It is.
I have to sit here and wonder why he's attacking so many people.
Typically, it's mummy issues and from everything I read, he had a good relationship with her.
He needs to be locked up.
For sure.
Well, this is the 1960s, Beth, and out of those 300 women, I didn't see that any came
(18:56):
forward to report sexual assault.
So police, again, had very little to go on besides this grandiose story that DeSalvo
had conjured up.
Now, I just told you he likes to one-up people, but I also mentioned that he is not a liar.
He was notorious for embellishing his confessions or at least aggrandizing them because that
(19:19):
was something he really enjoyed doing.
Just looking to see what people's reactions were as he was playing his mind games.
So I asked the question, why would he be doing this?
Because he didn't seem to have mummy issues, Beth, but I can imagine with the abuse that
he got from his father, it seems to me that he had extreme low self-esteem, which I had
(19:41):
referenced to earlier when I had mentioned that he did not feel that he was good-looking
or educated.
I would say, Beth, he would be considered a decently good-looking man.
I don't know why he would have, other than just have self-esteem to me.
Well, his father probably called him ugly and, you know.
(20:03):
Yeah, they say the terms sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt
me.
Totally false.
Exactly.
Well, even though police had nothing to go on from DeSalvo's lavish confessions as the
Green Man, he did manage to warn investigators that if they knew the whole story, they would
(20:24):
not believe it.
It would come out eventually and they would find out.
I mean, I'm not sure why investigators didn't probe him a little bit more, but DeSalvo was
quickly sent to Bridgewater State Hospital for a psychiatric evaluation and observation
period.
Oh, are we going to get into that at all or?
(20:46):
No, I didn't really see a ton of that again.
You know, these articles on him were a little bit difficult to find because they're so old.
Okay.
But let's get into the person behind the Boston Strangler who took a two-year reign of terror
because between 1962 and 1964, I think I said 11 women earlier, but it's more like 13 women
(21:12):
showed various signs of sexual assault on his list.
Each had been strangled to death in the metropolitan area of Boston, Massachusetts.
All victims lived alone and were believed to have known their attacker in one way or another.
There was never any sign of forced entry.
These murders were initially tagged as the silk stocking murders, which you'll understand
(21:36):
why in just a moment, but they were later changed to the Boston Strangler.
I mean, who comes up with these names, Beth?
We never hear that nowadays, do we?
No, because we have DNA and the internet and internet sleuths, you know, people crowdsourcing.
We catch criminals these days.
True.
(21:57):
Investigators believe that DeSalvo disguised himself as a delivery man or possibly a repair
man to get the women to let him inside their apartments.
And most of them did live in an apartment.
Some had witnesses, which I will tell you all about in just a moment.
Whoever was attacking these women, they always left a signature behind.
(22:19):
The ligature used in each attack, whether it was a silk stocking or a pillowcase, the
arms of a house coat, all of them were neatly tied into a bow.
That's all crazy.
And tying it into a bow?
I'm sitting here just imagining what his state of mind is as he's doing that, Beth.
(22:42):
That is just a sick, sick mind to take the time to do that.
Yeah.
Well, besides the ligature, which he always did leave behind, Albert DeSalvo did a very
good job of leaving very little evidence at the scene of each crime, at least in the beginning,
because he was able to get away with this for two full years.
(23:04):
Now, I definitely don't give DeSalvo credit for that.
His crimes are despicable, but you know what I mean when I say that they're slick up until
they slip and they do typically slip.
By the time the Boston Strangler was dubbed, there were at least 150 police officers assigned
(23:24):
to this case, officers and investigators.
A widespread panic began as women, especially those living alone, began to get guard dogs
for protection.
These women would look in closets under the bed and they began locking their doors during
an era when they typically left those doors unlocked all night long.
(23:46):
I get it.
That's how you grew up, right?
Yeah, but that's odd for that time period.
It truly was.
About what?
You mean locking the doors?
Yeah.
Oh, I agree, because here's an interesting fact.
Years ago, Beth, I used to work with a woman who was a teenager during the time of the
Boston Strangler's reign of terror.
And she had told me that it was extremely unnerving to be a single woman.
(24:10):
I think she said she was somewhere around 19 or so, but she had also said that the Boston
police had put a curfew out so women were not allowed to be out after a certain period
of time, which I thought was interesting.
Yeah, that's news to me.
I know.
When you hear somebody living through something like that, I mean, it's like historical events
(24:32):
that occur on the news.
We are living through that.
My son, Corey, he had just mentioned something that was on the news recently that he's like,
this is only the first big major event that has occurred in his lifetime since 9 11.
So it's the exposure that people have and the things that you remember and what time
period it was in.
But most of these attacks seem to occur during daytime hours.
(24:56):
I had mentioned that the Strangler had usually been invited in like being a delivery man
or repairman.
So it's good that they had that curfew probably at seven o'clock p.m. every night.
But still, as even today, we do know that most crimes occur during the day when people
are at work.
OK, I'm going to go through the list of the women because, Beth, you know that I believe
(25:20):
all victims need to have a name.
I'm going to try to be as delicate as possible, but you will see patterns here as we go through
the list of the victims.
The first attack occurred on June 14th, 1962, with 55 year old Anna Slusters.
Anna was a seamstress by day and she was discovered in her apartment by her son where she had
(25:45):
been sexually assaulted and finally with the cords of her own housecoat.
The Strangler had tied the cords up in a nice bow for people to find later.
So this is his very first signature.
I didn't know about that.
About his signature?
Yeah.
Typically, all serial killers have one.
Right.
But tying up in a bow, that just seems like something.
(26:08):
Yeah.
All right.
The Strangler's second victim is Mary Mullen, age 85.
And Beth, this is truly very sad.
Investigators ruled Mary's death as a heart attack, not specifically that she had been
strangled because it's very likely that she died from fright when her attacker began to
strangle her.
(26:29):
De Silva later said that Mary died in his arms.
Now, if he said Mary died in his arms, don't you think that the Boston Strangler would
really know what happened to her?
It makes sense if she died of a heart attack.
So true.
That's not typically what would happen if he was physically attacking her.
(26:50):
But you're right.
His mindset, it's undescribable.
I have no words.
For him to say something like that, is he embellishing this case because he likes to
one up people or was he being truthful?
And then again, think about how he's neatly tying up these bows, but then sitting there
allowing this person to die in his arms.
(27:11):
I don't know.
It's way over my head.
On June 30th, 1962, two more victims were discovered on the same day.
Helen Blake, age 65, and Nina Nichols, age 68, both women were found with silk stockings
around their neck.
They were tied up with that signature bow.
Nina received more news coverage than Helen did because she was related to the current
(27:36):
president at the time of the Massachusetts Bar Association.
And that's the people that lawyers sit for the bar and get their licenses.
Okay.
Well, on August 19th, 1962, Ida Erga, age 75, she had been strangled with a pillow case.
Ida was known to be quiet and shy and typically kept to herself after becoming a widow.
(28:00):
Jane Sullivan, age 67, was discovered on August 30th, 1962.
Jane was a licensed practical nurse who worked the night shift and lived alone in her three-bedroom
apartment.
Jane was discovered in her bathtub 11 days after her murder.
Police said there was no forced entry or sign of a struggle.
(28:21):
Now, all these women are older women.
That's why I believe he has mummy issues because he's attacking older women.
Well, on December 5th, 1962, things changed a little bit.
Sophie Clark, age 20, was a student at the Carnegie Institute of Medical Technology.
(28:42):
She was discovered by her roommates in their back bay apartment and had been strangled
with three silk stockings and a half slip.
Although she was extremely mindful and proactive of what was going on in the city with the
Boston Strangler, there was no sign of forced entry, although there were signs of a struggle.
(29:02):
Now, the one thing about this case, Beth, I had mentioned a while back that there were
some witnesses.
In Sophie's case, there was a witness, a nearby neighbor had told police that a man had knocked
on her door.
When she answered, the man told her that the apartment's superintendent had sent him to
paint her apartment.
He also said he needed to fix a light fixture in the bathroom, then complimented her figure
(29:28):
asking if she'd ever considered becoming a model.
Doesn't that sound familiar?
Well, after the man had said this, this witness put her finger to her lips as if trying to
shush up this repairman who, by the way, Beth was wearing green pants.
The witness had told him that her husband was sleeping in the other room and he needed
(29:49):
to be quiet.
All of a sudden, the man's demeanor changed to anger and he said he had the wrong apartment
and swiftly left the scene.
Sophie Clark was discovered soon after.
How was she seen soon after when he stopped and turned around and left?
(30:10):
I believe, Beth, that Sophie had multiple victims living in the same apartment.
I want to say that back bay area was a big trolling point for the Boston Strangler to
troll.
Okay.
Because you'll hear, I think I put in there a couple of times, but this does seem to be
(30:31):
his stomping grounds of sorts for lack of better terms.
Okay.
On December 31st, 1962, Patricia Bessette, age 23, was attacked.
Patricia worked as a secretary in an engineering firm and was very outgoing.
She lived in the same apartment building as the Boston Stranglers first and seventh victims,
(30:54):
Anna Slussers and Sophie Clark.
Patricia's boss became alarmed when she did not show up to work and he went by her apartment
to check on her.
I think that's what they used to do back in the day, you know?
When Patricia did not answer the door, her boss got a custodian to help him get into
the apartment where Patricia was discovered lying on the bed with her covers up to her
(31:17):
neck, looking as if she was just sleeping.
However, when they pulled the covers back, they found that Patricia had clearly been
strangled with several silk stockings plus a belt that was tied tightly around her neck.
Oh, here's the thing, Beth.
During her autopsy, Patricia was discovered to be in the early stages of pregnancy.
(31:39):
That's so sad.
That poor lady.
I know.
And you know, I think at this point too, this is the Boston Stranglers eighth victim.
This is the era that women wore pantyhose every day when they're going off to work.
Did the Boston Strangler get his weapon of choice from their negligee drawer or did he
(32:03):
carry silk stockings on his person?
That was one of the questions I had for myself when I was reading up on all of this.
Good point.
On March 6th, 1963, Mary Brown, age 69, had been discovered in her apartment.
Here's where things take a little turn, Beth.
Typically, when you've got somebody out here doing these terrible, terrible acts, you get
(32:28):
a sense that things are beginning to elevate.
You've seen it in different cases where the violence just starts amping up a little bit.
Yes.
Mary had been discovered in her apartment, beaten and strangled to death.
She had shown signs of being stabbed with a fork and blunged with a pipe.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
(32:49):
So things are definitely beginning to escalate here.
Now Mary's murder occurred 25 miles outside of the typical Back Bay area.
I'm not sure what Albert DeSalvo was doing on that day that Mary was attacked, but he
did soon return back to the city where the rest of his alleged crimes occurred.
(33:11):
Moving on to victim number 10, 23-year-old Beverly Sammons was a graduate student studying
to become an opera singer.
She enjoyed singing in the choir at the Second Unitarian Church in Back Bay.
When Beverly missed choir practice on May 6th, 1963, her male friend who had a key to
(33:31):
her apartment left to go check on her.
Beverly was discovered just inside her apartment on the sofa bed.
Her hands had been tied up with scarves.
Beverly had a cloth stuffed into her mouth and another cloth just laying over her face.
Then nylon stocking and two handkerchiefs were more in a decorative style around her
(33:53):
neck, likely Beth because of the killer's signature, because the Boston Strangler's
attacks are really beginning to elevate and he's becoming violent.
Not only had Beverly been strangled, but she had been stabbed four times in the neck and
22 times in the abdomen.
18 of these wounds hit the killer's bullseye right over the heart.
(34:16):
This killer had left the knife used in the attack in Beverly's sink before leaving the
scene.
Now, it's speculated Beth that because Beverly was an accomplished singer, as a matter of
fact, she had plans to try out for a professional job at the New York Met that year.
Police believe that the Boston Strangler had a difficult time strangling Beverly, likely
(34:39):
due to her strong neck muscles, which could be the reason behind his knife attack in this
instance.
That sounds plausible.
And obviously the Strangler had to have known her in some form because the handkerchief
was in the mouth.
We didn't hear anything about that with any of the other ladies.
(35:00):
So true.
And he put another cloth over her face and typically when you cover them up, they do
know they're victim.
Wow, you had a good point, Beth.
On September 8th, 1963, 50 year old Evelyn Corbin was found also with her panties stuffed
inside her mouth and two silk stockings around her neck.
(35:21):
This crime looked as if someone had come in to rob her because a jewelry tray had been
found on the floor and Evelyn's purse had been dumped out on the couch, although nothing
appeared to have been stolen.
I mean, you know, he's changing his style here a little bit.
Well, that makes me wonder if all of these cases are done by the same person.
(35:42):
Yeah.
Because the styles have changed.
You're right.
And maybe this is one of the reasons why DeSalvo was never specifically pinpointed as the Boston
Strangler because the styles are somewhat similar.
Was there a copycat trying to make it look like the Boston Strangler?
(36:04):
You're right.
That's a good thought process.
Now, the Boston Strangler's next victim had somewhat been overshadowed at this time, Beth,
when President John F. Kennedy's assassination took place on November 22nd, 1963.
23 year old Joanne Graff was discovered the next day on November 23rd, 1963.
(36:26):
She had been beaten and found with two silk stockings tied in a bow around her neck.
Joanne was religious in her faith and was an industrial designer who was believed to
have been attacked a few days earlier.
Joanne did have teeth marks on one of her breasts that had never been seen before.
And that's why I'm saying things are escalating.
(36:47):
Just as in Sophie Clark's case, there was a witness in Evelyn's case as well.
Because of the Boston Strangler's high activity in the city, a neighbor in Evelyn's apartment
was alerted when he heard somebody in the hallway just outside their door.
When they went to investigate, and I'm going to say likely through the peephole, Beth,
(37:07):
because they witnessed a man standing at the door across the hall wearing green pants,
a dark jacket and slicked back hair.
I feel like it was the Elvis Presley era where his hairstyle was popular at the time.
Albert DeSalvo wore his hair slicked back just like Elvis.
The witness had overheard the man in the green pants asking if Joanne Graff lived there.
(37:31):
He was redirected downstairs one flight directly below the apartment where he had knocked on
the door.
Clearly, he had to have known who Joanne was.
He knocked on the door asking if that's where she lived, asking by name, and then people
knew each other in the building.
So when he was redirected downstairs, he knew who his victim was going to be.
(37:53):
Now the eyewitness also heard the man knocking on Joanne's door and her answering it, but
that's about it.
Joanne was discovered deceased a few days later.
All right, Beth, we're getting down to our last victim before the attacks stopped.
On January 4th, 1964, 19-year-old Mary Sullivan, who was discovered by her roommates as they
(38:17):
returned from work after a long day.
Mary was found inside of her bedroom sitting upright.
She had been assaulted and strangled with one silk stocking and two silk scarves.
One of the scarves was bright pink and had been tied up in that signature bow that the
Boston Strangler was known for.
The other scarf was floral and tied up in the same manner.
(38:40):
This time, the Boston Strangler left a new calling card, which I find so bizarre, Beth,
like all of his tendencies are changing.
They are.
Well, quite literally, he did leave that calling card because at Mary's feet, the Boston Strangler
had left a card that read, Happy New Year.
(39:02):
What a creep.
I mean, he is truly just playing cat and mouse here at this point.
Yeah, getting very arrogant.
Yes.
Well, by now, police were offering a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the
arrest of the Boston Strangler.
Let's get back to Albert DeSalvo as a person and his possibility of being the Boston Strangler
(39:27):
because at this point, he had not been identified, arrested or charged with being so, which again,
you know what?
I really don't understand because the police always said there was never enough evidence
to charge DeSalvo with these crimes, but he left a lot of evidence.
In my opinion, Beth, I am not a professional, but he did leave some evidence behind.
(39:49):
He had left some bodily fluids.
He had left bite marks on one of the victim's bodies, which, you know, they could do a dental
comparison and come up with that.
He left that bloody knife in the kitchen sink.
So I realize we are 40 years away from DNA evidence, but blood and tooth mark samples
(40:09):
could have been investigated during that era.
Yeah.
I just wish they would have taken this further with it, especially with a tooth mark.
Yeah, because that was some concrete evidence there.
But as of now, we asked the question, why did the Boston Strangler's movements suddenly
stop?
Because Albert DeSalvo couldn't help himself.
(40:30):
He was beginning to escalate.
He continued to get in trouble with the law, which ended up landing him behind bars for
good soon after Mary Sullivan's death.
By 1964, DeSalvo had found himself convicted of multiple crimes for ongoing assaults, burglaries,
and sexual offenses on record, which I did not get into, Beth.
(40:54):
I mean, some of them I did as far as the measuring man, the green man.
But by 1964, he was behind bars for life.
That's good.
Yeah.
And as we know, DeSalvo did like to embellish his crimes, which, by the way, he never did
so when addressing the Boston Strangler attacks.
(41:14):
By 1965, while behind bars, Albert DeSalvo did have time to think about what he had done,
whether it was with the Boston Strangler activities or his other actions.
He did proceed to make a jailhouse confession about being the man behind the Boston Strangler.
Beth, guess what?
(41:35):
What?
No one believed him.
Of course not.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
I guess if somebody came up to us to confess they were a killer, we'd never believe them.
Yeah, you're right.
Well, remember now, DeSalvo was known to tell grandiose stories.
But like I said, he always told the truth that he was who the police and news media
(41:57):
said that he was behind the nicknames of the measuring man and the green man.
In the case of the Boston Strangler, police were able to corroborate DeSalvo's confessions
with the crimes.
They just didn't have evidence that they needed to charge him in any of these cases.
He seemed like a pretty intelligent person, Beth, because you can credit DeSalvo with
(42:21):
keeping one step ahead of the police, especially in the time period that he was active.
But I guess my question here is why did he decide it was time to confess?
I mean, I don't think he had much of a conscience, but you do know that people get a thrill from
inserting themselves into sensational cases, even when they are not the one who's responsible.
(42:44):
Yes, exactly.
So did he insert himself because it was a big story at the time?
We'll never know.
After admitting his guilt, the police, his psychiatrist and his appointed lawyer, Mr.
F. Lee Bailey, a celebrated lawyer who, by the way, was assigned to other high profile
(43:04):
cases like Patty Hearst.
Remember that from episode 63 on Dying to be Found?
Oh, yeah.
And the infamous O.J. Simpson trial.
Lee advised Albert DeSalvo to retract his confession as being the Boston Strangler.
DeSalvo did just that.
He was never charged in any of the cases tied to the Boston Strangler until decades later,
(43:28):
which I will get to in just a moment.
That sounds very interesting to know why the change.
Yeah.
Well, after Albert DeSalvo was sentenced in 1964 for the crimes that sent him to prison
for life, he was soon housed at Walpole State Prison by 1967.
(43:48):
Walpole State Prison today is known as the Massachusetts Correctional Institute at Cedar
Junction.
DeSalvo was only there for about six years when, unfortunately, Beth, his life ended
prematurely.
Oh.
You can take that as a sarcastic statement or not.
You know, my dry sense of humor here, but I do.
(44:10):
Mm hmm.
Well, some people believe that criminals like Albert DeSalvo deserve to live a long life
in prison, suffering the consequences of their actions and thinking about it every day.
Others believe it's a waste of tax dollars.
I'll let you decide on that.
On November 26th, 1973, DeSalvo died under mysterious circumstances after being stabbed
(44:35):
to death by an unidentified inmate.
Or was it a cover up?
We'll never know.
There was never enough information on why or how this stabbing occurred.
DeSalvo seemed to keep to himself, but again, Beth, he liked to play those mind games.
So you never know who had it in for him while he was behind bars.
(44:56):
Maybe they had it in for him because he confessed to being the Boston Strangler and some people
are protective of the females in their family.
Albert DeSalvo died at age 42 without ever being officially identified as the Boston
Strangler during his lifetime.
This didn't happen until 50 years later in the year 2013.
(45:18):
Oh, do tell.
Well, Beth, we know that DNA helps solve crimes today, even from cold cases from decades earlier.
And this case is no different.
In 2013, one of Albert DeSalvo's nephews left a water bottle on a construction site where
police picked it up and had it tested for DNA.
(45:39):
I mean, okay, I'm sorry.
I do not know what kind of surveillance they were doing on DeSalvo's nephew.
Were they specifically trying to track him because, you know, you watch these shows on
TV where detectives wait for them to throw their water bottle away and then they run
and grab it and then they perform the DNA.
(46:00):
Yeah.
So imagine that.
That's what they did.
Maybe the family was just uncooperative.
They were not willing to give their DNA.
That's very strange though.
Yeah, I thought so too.
So if any of our listeners know the answer to that, we are always looking for answers
here on Dying to be Found when Deb can't find the research on it.
Well, DNA samples produced a 99.99% match to 19 year old Mary Sullivan, the Boston Strangler's
(46:27):
last victim.
Police were finally able to connect Albert DeSalvo with the Boston Strangler based on
semen left at the scene.
So DeSalvo was officially linked to all 13 murders in the Boston area that he had openly
admitted to being responsible for way back in 1964.
(46:49):
Although DeSalvo put off his grandiose stories about his crimes, I always said, Beth, he's
not a liar.
As of today, police officials do believe that Albert DeSalvo is the Boston Strangler, but
family members continue to dispute it.
Now Hulu put out a true crime thriller back in just 2023 that supposedly provides the
(47:13):
truth behind the Boston Strangler.
This seems to be the most recent tale, so it would likely have updated information including
that DNA evidence.
I mean, I haven't seen it.
I would love to know if you get a chance to look at that or any of our listeners.
But for now, Beth, that's the story of Albert DeSalvo, also known as the Measuring Man,
(47:36):
the Green Man, and now the Boston Strangler.
Well, that's the icing on the cake for Dine to be Found.
I've been wanting to know the story, the full story about this, so I'm really glad you did
this episode.
I couldn't think of a better episode to start off season three.
I just had to do it.
I told you for a long time I would do it.
(47:57):
Yes, ever since season one.
Really?
It's been that long?
Yep.
Huh.
Okay.
Don't be asking for any anytime soon because we are only going to once a month episodes.
Okay.
Because you know, I decided to start this other podcast called Insinuation.
So yeah, go check that one out.
(48:18):
And Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us today?
Oh, it has been a long time since I have given our listeners a teachable moment.
I know that these crimes occurred back in the era where many people slept with their
doors unlocked.
But in today's day and age, we know that things have definitely changed.
(48:40):
Today we have home camera systems that are very affordable and most people seem to be
aware of their surroundings.
I know you are and I know I am.
I guess my teachable moment here, Beth, is just to be diligent with your personal safety.
Invest in those cameras around your home.
Lock your doors.
(49:01):
Don't answer the door if you're not expecting someone.
Get a large dog if your living space allows it.
Because I think that we had an episode where Shelby and I talked about dogs being one of
the best security systems that you can have.
Don't get one of those puny dogs though because they bark at everything and we know the little
boy that cries wolf, you're going to stop listening to that dog at some point in time.
(49:24):
Just do your due diligence in keeping your living space as safe as possible, especially
if you are a woman living alone.
Take a self-defense course.
Take a firearm safety course.
Take karate or jujitsu.
Be aware of your surroundings and crowded parking lots.
I can't tell you Beth how many times I've been surprised by somebody coming out of nowhere
(49:48):
as I approach my car in a shopping center.
I know that's happened to you.
Scary?
Definitely scary.
But just be mindful that although we think that we are living in a good world for the
most part, there are still bad people living amongst us who are looking for that right
opportunity to invade your space.
(50:09):
So that's my teachable moment.
It's a very good one, especially let's look at taking in a self-defense course.
It was mandatory in high school, but I really could use a refresher.
I have never taken a self-defense course, but I have taken a firearms safety course.
Very good.
Yeah.
(50:29):
So anything that you can do to keep one step ahead.
Well, we would love to receive feedback from our listeners on today's storyline or any
of our other episodes.
Be sure to DM us on Instagram or send us an email at dying the number two, the letter
be found at gmail.com.
And Beth, I'm so glad that you were here to join me today because it's always good to
(50:52):
see you.
I know that season three is going to be different this year because I am working with Mary Ann
from the social detective podcast on our new project insinuation podcast.
Be sure to check that out.
We have had to scale back here a little bit on dying to be found because honestly, not
going to lie, I'm a little busy, but do be looking for new episodes with Beth, Shelby,
(51:17):
Corey, and myself.
In the meantime, thanks for listening to dying to be found true crime podcast.
We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, tick tock, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest
at dying to be found.
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(51:37):
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Thanks again, everyone.
And we will talk to you soon.
Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
(00:06):
Today's episode contains discussions on harmful acts and sexual assault against women.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Well hello everyone, welcome back to Dying to be Found where I love to say that this
(00:30):
is a family thing.
And you never know which family member will drop in to help me out because today Beth,
my sister from Canada, is here to listen along as we bring you quite the story.
Now Beth is intrigued with early era crime.
We're going to bump it up a little bit here today.
We don't typically do big headline news, but today's episode has been in the pipeline
(00:55):
for quite some time.
So here we go.
How are you Beth?
I'm great.
How are you?
I am wonderful.
It is so good to be back.
I have to say I've missed everybody.
I've missed you and we're just going to get right back into things.
I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this storyline and what is new.
(01:16):
Anything?
Not a lot.
I'm just very happy to be back.
This feels like home.
Oh, I love to hear that.
I feel the same way.
And guess what else is going to feel like home?
What?
I have not been back to Canada.
Do you know how long it's been?
Since 2006.
Wow.
You're going to notice such a big difference.
(01:37):
Yes.
I'm sure you've had urban sprawl.
Well, I talked to you a while back about our bucket list and the places that we want to
go see and remind me before we get started, where would you like to visit that you've
never been?
I guess Ireland and Scotland.
Oh my gosh.
We have got to plan a trip.
I would love to go up there with you.
(01:58):
That would be amazing.
We'll have to go on one of those old people tours.
Okay.
Well, first of all, I'm not classifying myself as old, so I don't know if I will qualify,
but send me the link.
Well, by the time I can afford it, you'll qualify.
Okay.
So we'll stay a little bit local.
We are in North America today because one of the places that I would like to go, and
(02:22):
I've told you this before, I love historical cities.
There's so much going on in that space.
It's like you're walking on the same cobblestone sidewalks as historical figures.
But in this case, I'm not real proud to say that today because we're on our way to Boston.
Oh.
Yeah.
Boston is known.
(02:43):
It's one of the very first established American colonies.
Is it?
It is.
And, you know, honestly, I grew up learning about Canadian geography, not American geography,
but I've been here so long that I pretty much know it just as much as I do Canada now.
Boston is also known as the historical backdrop to the American Revolution, which helped to
(03:04):
establish the US Declaration of Independence.
If you've ever heard of the Boston Marathon, the Boston Red Sox, and most importantly,
Beth, I know you'll appreciate this.
It's the birthplace of Samuel Adams Beer Company.
How about that?
I'm surprised you remember that's what I drink when I'm down in the States.
Oh, okay.
(03:24):
Well, I didn't, but thanks for the reminder.
Yeah, we should maybe plan a trip to Boston.
Maybe that's a little bit more affordable.
Boston and New York are the two states I really want to see.
Let's stop talking about it and do it.
Okay, we'll plan after this podcast.
Okay.
Now, we're going to begin today by talking about a man named Albert DeSalvo, who went
(03:49):
by numerous aliases, which I did not know until I started researching this case.
Do you know who Albert DeSalvo is, Beth?
You know what?
I was trying to think, do I know this name?
Could he be the Boston Strangler?
He is the Boston Strangler.
Yeah, I used to, as a kid, cut out clippings about the Boston Strangler and put it in my
(04:11):
scrapbook.
What?
Are you serious?
Oh my gosh.
I am.
That's why I thought that's got to be it's in Boston.
DeSalvo sounds familiar.
So I put a different title on the script because I was trying to throw Beth off a little bit.
I did for just a hot minute because she did not know one of the aliases that I'm going
(04:34):
to talk about.
She did not know that name.
Neither did I until I started researching.
But I'll explain to you, Beth, how he got his nicknames before things did elevate to
his most notorious name because Albert DeSalvo is the man, as you stated, behind the Boston
Strangler.
Okay.
Now I'm sitting here wondering, should I have been worried growing up knowing that you had
(04:55):
a scrapbook on serial killers?
How old were you when you had this scrapbook?
Let's see.
I'm going to guess in grade five or six.
So you would have been probably 11 or 12.
So you know how grandma always used to have that tabloid magazine.
Yes.
Well, I used to read it.
(05:16):
Oh, wow.
Yes.
She always let me take them home.
Okay.
So that would have made me probably about eight.
Still a little bit oblivious to the horrible things going on in the world.
But I do remember those tabloids.
And then dad would always get onto me when I bought them when I was visiting.
He'd be like, oh, that's just a bunch of trash.
Or quote unquote fake news.
(05:38):
Oh, fake news before it became fake news.
Huh?
All right.
So this case is not cut and dry.
DeSalvo's identity as the Boston Strangler was and still is up for debate going into
50 years after his arrest.
Did you know that?
He's specifically not been pegged as the Boston Strangler.
(06:02):
It's not cut and dry.
I didn't realize that because in one of the photos that I cut out from the magazine that
said such and such is the Boston Strangler or he said he was the Boston Strangler.
So yes.
And we're going to get into that because he is all sorts of full of confessions.
(06:22):
He's not a liar.
I will touch on that talking point in just a little bit because he's not a liar, Beth.
He comes out and tells you the truth.
Is he a good person?
No.
Did he do bad things?
Yes.
Is he a liar?
To a certain extent.
But when he wants to tell the truth about something, you'll see he's going to tell you the truth.
Oh.
(06:43):
Well, for all intense purposes, the police believe that DeSalvo is indeed the Boston
Strangler, but some of his family members still dispute that label.
Of course.
Yeah.
I know.
I don't think that I would want to be connected with somebody like that through my family
tree.
Now, during the time that these crimes occurred, Albert actually confessed.
(07:08):
But due to the lack of evidence, he simply could not be pinpointed as the Boston Strangler
who killed a total of at least 11 women over a two-year period.
Now, we'll get into that in just a moment, but let's first talk about Albert DeSalvo's
home life.
Albert DeSalvo was born to Frank and Charlotte DeSalvo on September 3rd, 1931 in Chelsea,
(07:33):
Massachusetts.
He was one of six children and was unfortunately raised, Beth, in an abusive household.
At a very young age, Albert would constantly witness his alcoholic father attacking his
mother where she suffered some pretty intense physical torture.
Albert had watched helplessly around the age of seven as his mother's fingers were broken
(07:58):
and her teeth were knocked out in front of him.
So some pretty severe stuff that I don't believe any child, regardless on who they grew up
to be, should ever witness.
Exactly.
That is, I had no idea that there was some torture involved in this and that's pretty
(08:19):
brutal.
It is.
And I mean, strange enough, Beth, I really didn't know much about this story at all.
I think honestly, I was probably too young for it, but over time it gets pushed into
the background because there's so much other stuff going on.
Right.
Well, as a child, Albert was no less fortunate because in a later interview, he had stated
(08:41):
that he himself was a victim of physical abuse where one time he received a blow to his back
with a metal pipe after he tried to scramble away from his dad.
He just didn't move fast enough.
Those were his words.
I just didn't get out of the way fast enough.
Albert also stated that he and his brother would be forced to stand in front of their
(09:02):
father every night only to be beaten with the buckle end of a belt.
I mean, that's horrible.
We know, Beth, that this stuff goes on behind closed doors, but it's just so sad to hear
it.
It is.
It really is.
I just, I don't know if there's a way to stop it.
(09:23):
I don't get what pleasure somebody would get out of doing that to their children.
Me neither.
If I could just, for just a moment, our listeners by now should know that we have a new podcast
out there called Insinuation Podcast.
That is actually one of our big talking points this season is how child abuse occurs constantly.
(09:45):
Even though there are different agencies involved, it still goes on.
Where's it going to stop?
Yeah.
So, Selvo claimed that he and his two sisters were at some point sold to a farmer in Maine
for the bargain price of $9.
That was when he was a child because in today's money value, that would be over $200.
(10:08):
That's disgusting.
It is.
And I can't say that that information could be verified, Beth, because there was really
nothing to corroborate what that storyline was that he had to say.
But he did tell authorities that he was gone for six months before their mother finally
tracked them down.
Could you imagine being on the search for your child?
(10:30):
No.
Very horrifying.
Yeah.
Well, De Selvo never clarified what had happened on that farm.
But let me just say that in everything I read, Albert De Selvo really didn't lie about his
confessions, which I had mentioned a little earlier.
He was very matter of fact and extremely upfront and truthful when providing police with information
(10:54):
during those later confessions.
It's almost Beth like he wanted to get everything off of his chest and give investigators everything
they needed.
The only thing holding back progress was the lack of evidence here, which again, we'll
talk about in just a bit.
I agree with you that I think he needed to get that off his chest.
I think that he did that quite a bit because he didn't have just one or two run ins with
(11:17):
the law.
He was very truthful every time he got caught.
So he wanted to get it off his conscience.
Clearly Albert was traumatized by his situation as he was growing up.
But when that happens, sometimes kids simply act out.
Albert's parents did eventually divorce and he went on to live with his mother.
(11:41):
From everything that I found Beth, they had a pretty good relationship.
Nice.
Yeah.
But by then Albert was a teenager and he was just simply making bad choices and getting
into trouble.
During his teenage years, Albert began racking up charges of assault and battery plus other
petty crimes that landed him in reform school.
(12:02):
By all appearances, he seemed to straighten up because by the age of 17, he did enlist
in the army.
He served eight years, met his bride, had two children and worked an honest living in
a manufacturing plant once he left the military.
But Beth behind this facade, Albert's dark side did begin to emerge and he began participating
(12:26):
in some very lewd acts, earning himself a nickname or two before being labeled as the
Boston Strangler.
We're going to move into the 1950s where in the Cambridge area, just outside of Boston,
a 20 something year old man went door to door claiming to be a talent scout.
If a young woman answered, he would introduce himself as Johnson and go through a scripted
(12:51):
speech that included several talking points.
Albert would start by saying that the young woman's name was given to him by someone who
thought they would make a good model.
He assured them that no nudity would be involved, only bathing suits, evening gowns and things
like that.
His agency was willing to pay the young woman $40 an hour.
(13:12):
Beth, this was in the 1950s where minimum wage was 75 cents an hour.
That's a heck of a lot of money.
I mean, it would sound good to me.
Absolutely.
Because the average weekly salary back in the 1950s was $30 a week.
So $40 an hour would definitely sound good to some of those women.
(13:34):
For sure.
I mean, I'm thinking back to when you and I were kids and our parents bought their house
where we grew up for $20,000.
Did they?
Yes, they did.
Oh my gosh.
Because think about it.
When I was a teenager, minimum wage was $3.35 an hour.
Here in Canada, I think it's around $19 an hour.
(13:57):
Now?
Yeah.
I'm thinking of upping it to $25.
Interesting that you say that because it's still $7.25 an hour here.
People can't live on that.
No, they really can't.
Well, if these women were interested in becoming a model, Johnson was required to take the
young woman's measurements and he's just so happy to carry a measuring tape with him.
(14:19):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I actually have one of those in my purse.
So do I.
And we find useful ways to use it, don't we?
Exactly.
Right.
After he was done, Johnson said that he would be in touch, which of course never happened.
And eventually some of the women caught on and called the police.
I mean, you know, a week or two goes by and I'm wondering why this guy never called me.
(14:43):
I don't know.
I guess the afterthoughts of, oh my goodness, this person came in and violated me.
I better call the police.
On March 17th, 1961, Albert DeSalvo was caught trying to break into a home.
And during his arrest, he admitted to being what the police had pegged him as the measuring
man.
(15:03):
What?
Because he had the measuring tape.
Oh, okay.
Isn't that something?
Yeah.
During this police interview, investigators asked DeSalvo why he did what he did.
And he answered, quote, I am not good looking.
I am not educated, but I was able to put something over on high class people.
They were all college kids and I never had anything in my life and I outsmarted them.
(15:29):
Unquote.
Kind of sounds like someone we know who liked to one up people.
Beth, does that sound familiar?
Yes.
Was that going through your head?
No, what was going through my head is, geez, this could be the Boston Strangler because
he one upped everybody.
Oh, well, you would know this more than me from the tabloids.
What do you know about him one upping people?
(15:51):
I don't.
I was too young.
I forgot.
DeSalvo ended up serving 18 months, but was released early on good behavior and was sent
back to his family.
But that was good behavior on the inside, not the outside of prison.
Once released, DeSalvo had additional arrests between the years of 1956 and 1960, ranging
(16:18):
from breaking and entering to indecent sexual behaviors.
In November 1964, DeSalvo was arrested again for a string of sexual assault charges.
One young woman who had gone back to bed after seeing her new husband off to work was awakened
suddenly to find a man standing over her bed with a knife to her throat, threatening to
(16:42):
kill her if she made a sound.
Oh, that is my worst fear.
That's why I keep my apartment door locked all the time.
After tying her to the bed, DeSalvo sexually assaulted this woman.
Now, this young lady had enough gumption to get a good look at the man who had assaulted
her as she was able to go to the police with a very good description of him.
(17:05):
The police created a sketch composite of someone who looked eerily similar to none other than
the measuring man who we now know is Albert DeSalvo.
DeSalvo was picked up rather quickly and called in for a lineup at the police station.
Standing behind the one-way mirror was his young victim who was able to positively identify
(17:28):
DeSalvo as the man who had attacked her.
So that's good.
Mm-hmm.
Now, I will say this.
I don't know how much time he served for being the measuring man.
I didn't see a ton of information on that, probably because he was overshadowed by later
activity, but I'm sure that he probably did some time for that.
(17:50):
For sure.
Especially if he had a witness.
Yeah.
Well, during his second string of assaults, DeSalvo was dubbed as the green man because
whoever was behind those attacks was a man who always wore green pants.
Now, I don't know if the police ever found those green pants with any issued search warrants
(18:11):
at the time.
I don't know.
I know things have changed as far as really needing to follow specific guidelines to get
a search warrant, but enough witnesses did give investigators information to label DeSalvo
as this green man assailant.
After his arrest, DeSalvo admitted to assaulting, get this, Beth, more than 300 women in four
(18:35):
states.
That's a heck of a lot.
It is.
I have to sit here and wonder why he's attacking so many people.
Typically, it's mummy issues and from everything I read, he had a good relationship with her.
He needs to be locked up.
For sure.
Well, this is the 1960s, Beth, and out of those 300 women, I didn't see that any came
(18:56):
forward to report sexual assault.
So police, again, had very little to go on besides this grandiose story that DeSalvo
had conjured up.
Now, I just told you he likes to one-up people, but I also mentioned that he is not a liar.
He was notorious for embellishing his confessions or at least aggrandizing them because that
(19:19):
was something he really enjoyed doing.
Just looking to see what people's reactions were as he was playing his mind games.
So I asked the question, why would he be doing this?
Because he didn't seem to have mummy issues, Beth, but I can imagine with the abuse that
he got from his father, it seems to me that he had extreme low self-esteem, which I had
(19:41):
referenced to earlier when I had mentioned that he did not feel that he was good-looking
or educated.
I would say, Beth, he would be considered a decently good-looking man.
I don't know why he would have, other than just have self-esteem to me.
Well, his father probably called him ugly and, you know.
(20:03):
Yeah, they say the terms sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt
me.
Totally false.
Exactly.
Well, even though police had nothing to go on from DeSalvo's lavish confessions as the
Green Man, he did manage to warn investigators that if they knew the whole story, they would
(20:24):
not believe it.
It would come out eventually and they would find out.
I mean, I'm not sure why investigators didn't probe him a little bit more, but DeSalvo was
quickly sent to Bridgewater State Hospital for a psychiatric evaluation and observation
period.
Oh, are we going to get into that at all or?
(20:46):
No, I didn't really see a ton of that again.
You know, these articles on him were a little bit difficult to find because they're so old.
Okay.
But let's get into the person behind the Boston Strangler who took a two-year reign of terror
because between 1962 and 1964, I think I said 11 women earlier, but it's more like 13 women
(21:12):
showed various signs of sexual assault on his list.
Each had been strangled to death in the metropolitan area of Boston, Massachusetts.
All victims lived alone and were believed to have known their attacker in one way or another.
There was never any sign of forced entry.
These murders were initially tagged as the silk stocking murders, which you'll understand
(21:36):
why in just a moment, but they were later changed to the Boston Strangler.
I mean, who comes up with these names, Beth?
We never hear that nowadays, do we?
No, because we have DNA and the internet and internet sleuths, you know, people crowdsourcing.
We catch criminals these days.
True.
(21:57):
Investigators believe that DeSalvo disguised himself as a delivery man or possibly a repair
man to get the women to let him inside their apartments.
And most of them did live in an apartment.
Some had witnesses, which I will tell you all about in just a moment.
Whoever was attacking these women, they always left a signature behind.
(22:19):
The ligature used in each attack, whether it was a silk stocking or a pillowcase, the
arms of a house coat, all of them were neatly tied into a bow.
That's all crazy.
And tying it into a bow?
I'm sitting here just imagining what his state of mind is as he's doing that, Beth.
(22:42):
That is just a sick, sick mind to take the time to do that.
Yeah.
Well, besides the ligature, which he always did leave behind, Albert DeSalvo did a very
good job of leaving very little evidence at the scene of each crime, at least in the beginning,
because he was able to get away with this for two full years.
(23:04):
Now, I definitely don't give DeSalvo credit for that.
His crimes are despicable, but you know what I mean when I say that they're slick up until
they slip and they do typically slip.
By the time the Boston Strangler was dubbed, there were at least 150 police officers assigned
(23:24):
to this case, officers and investigators.
A widespread panic began as women, especially those living alone, began to get guard dogs
for protection.
These women would look in closets under the bed and they began locking their doors during
an era when they typically left those doors unlocked all night long.
(23:46):
I get it.
That's how you grew up, right?
Yeah, but that's odd for that time period.
It truly was.
About what?
You mean locking the doors?
Yeah.
Oh, I agree, because here's an interesting fact.
Years ago, Beth, I used to work with a woman who was a teenager during the time of the
Boston Strangler's reign of terror.
And she had told me that it was extremely unnerving to be a single woman.
(24:10):
I think she said she was somewhere around 19 or so, but she had also said that the Boston
police had put a curfew out so women were not allowed to be out after a certain period
of time, which I thought was interesting.
Yeah, that's news to me.
I know.
When you hear somebody living through something like that, I mean, it's like historical events
(24:32):
that occur on the news.
We are living through that.
My son, Corey, he had just mentioned something that was on the news recently that he's like,
this is only the first big major event that has occurred in his lifetime since 9 11.
So it's the exposure that people have and the things that you remember and what time
period it was in.
But most of these attacks seem to occur during daytime hours.
(24:56):
I had mentioned that the Strangler had usually been invited in like being a delivery man
or repairman.
So it's good that they had that curfew probably at seven o'clock p.m. every night.
But still, as even today, we do know that most crimes occur during the day when people
are at work.
OK, I'm going to go through the list of the women because, Beth, you know that I believe
(25:20):
all victims need to have a name.
I'm going to try to be as delicate as possible, but you will see patterns here as we go through
the list of the victims.
The first attack occurred on June 14th, 1962, with 55 year old Anna Slusters.
Anna was a seamstress by day and she was discovered in her apartment by her son where she had
(25:45):
been sexually assaulted and finally with the cords of her own housecoat.
The Strangler had tied the cords up in a nice bow for people to find later.
So this is his very first signature.
I didn't know about that.
About his signature?
Yeah.
Typically, all serial killers have one.
Right.
But tying up in a bow, that just seems like something.
(26:08):
Yeah.
All right.
The Strangler's second victim is Mary Mullen, age 85.
And Beth, this is truly very sad.
Investigators ruled Mary's death as a heart attack, not specifically that she had been
strangled because it's very likely that she died from fright when her attacker began to
strangle her.
(26:29):
De Silva later said that Mary died in his arms.
Now, if he said Mary died in his arms, don't you think that the Boston Strangler would
really know what happened to her?
It makes sense if she died of a heart attack.
So true.
That's not typically what would happen if he was physically attacking her.
(26:50):
But you're right.
His mindset, it's undescribable.
I have no words.
For him to say something like that, is he embellishing this case because he likes to
one up people or was he being truthful?
And then again, think about how he's neatly tying up these bows, but then sitting there
allowing this person to die in his arms.
(27:11):
I don't know.
It's way over my head.
On June 30th, 1962, two more victims were discovered on the same day.
Helen Blake, age 65, and Nina Nichols, age 68, both women were found with silk stockings
around their neck.
They were tied up with that signature bow.
Nina received more news coverage than Helen did because she was related to the current
(27:36):
president at the time of the Massachusetts Bar Association.
And that's the people that lawyers sit for the bar and get their licenses.
Okay.
Well, on August 19th, 1962, Ida Erga, age 75, she had been strangled with a pillow case.
Ida was known to be quiet and shy and typically kept to herself after becoming a widow.
(28:00):
Jane Sullivan, age 67, was discovered on August 30th, 1962.
Jane was a licensed practical nurse who worked the night shift and lived alone in her three-bedroom
apartment.
Jane was discovered in her bathtub 11 days after her murder.
Police said there was no forced entry or sign of a struggle.
(28:21):
Now, all these women are older women.
That's why I believe he has mummy issues because he's attacking older women.
Well, on December 5th, 1962, things changed a little bit.
Sophie Clark, age 20, was a student at the Carnegie Institute of Medical Technology.
(28:42):
She was discovered by her roommates in their back bay apartment and had been strangled
with three silk stockings and a half slip.
Although she was extremely mindful and proactive of what was going on in the city with the
Boston Strangler, there was no sign of forced entry, although there were signs of a struggle.
(29:02):
Now, the one thing about this case, Beth, I had mentioned a while back that there were
some witnesses.
In Sophie's case, there was a witness, a nearby neighbor had told police that a man had knocked
on her door.
When she answered, the man told her that the apartment's superintendent had sent him to
paint her apartment.
He also said he needed to fix a light fixture in the bathroom, then complimented her figure
(29:28):
asking if she'd ever considered becoming a model.
Doesn't that sound familiar?
Well, after the man had said this, this witness put her finger to her lips as if trying to
shush up this repairman who, by the way, Beth was wearing green pants.
The witness had told him that her husband was sleeping in the other room and he needed
(29:49):
to be quiet.
All of a sudden, the man's demeanor changed to anger and he said he had the wrong apartment
and swiftly left the scene.
Sophie Clark was discovered soon after.
How was she seen soon after when he stopped and turned around and left?
(30:10):
I believe, Beth, that Sophie had multiple victims living in the same apartment.
I want to say that back bay area was a big trolling point for the Boston Strangler to
troll.
Okay.
Because you'll hear, I think I put in there a couple of times, but this does seem to be
(30:31):
his stomping grounds of sorts for lack of better terms.
Okay.
On December 31st, 1962, Patricia Bessette, age 23, was attacked.
Patricia worked as a secretary in an engineering firm and was very outgoing.
She lived in the same apartment building as the Boston Stranglers first and seventh victims,
(30:54):
Anna Slussers and Sophie Clark.
Patricia's boss became alarmed when she did not show up to work and he went by her apartment
to check on her.
I think that's what they used to do back in the day, you know?
When Patricia did not answer the door, her boss got a custodian to help him get into
the apartment where Patricia was discovered lying on the bed with her covers up to her
(31:17):
neck, looking as if she was just sleeping.
However, when they pulled the covers back, they found that Patricia had clearly been
strangled with several silk stockings plus a belt that was tied tightly around her neck.
Oh, here's the thing, Beth.
During her autopsy, Patricia was discovered to be in the early stages of pregnancy.
(31:39):
That's so sad.
That poor lady.
I know.
And you know, I think at this point too, this is the Boston Stranglers eighth victim.
This is the era that women wore pantyhose every day when they're going off to work.
Did the Boston Strangler get his weapon of choice from their negligee drawer or did he
(32:03):
carry silk stockings on his person?
That was one of the questions I had for myself when I was reading up on all of this.
Good point.
On March 6th, 1963, Mary Brown, age 69, had been discovered in her apartment.
Here's where things take a little turn, Beth.
Typically, when you've got somebody out here doing these terrible, terrible acts, you get
(32:28):
a sense that things are beginning to elevate.
You've seen it in different cases where the violence just starts amping up a little bit.
Yes.
Mary had been discovered in her apartment, beaten and strangled to death.
She had shown signs of being stabbed with a fork and blunged with a pipe.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
(32:49):
So things are definitely beginning to escalate here.
Now Mary's murder occurred 25 miles outside of the typical Back Bay area.
I'm not sure what Albert DeSalvo was doing on that day that Mary was attacked, but he
did soon return back to the city where the rest of his alleged crimes occurred.
(33:11):
Moving on to victim number 10, 23-year-old Beverly Sammons was a graduate student studying
to become an opera singer.
She enjoyed singing in the choir at the Second Unitarian Church in Back Bay.
When Beverly missed choir practice on May 6th, 1963, her male friend who had a key to
(33:31):
her apartment left to go check on her.
Beverly was discovered just inside her apartment on the sofa bed.
Her hands had been tied up with scarves.
Beverly had a cloth stuffed into her mouth and another cloth just laying over her face.
Then nylon stocking and two handkerchiefs were more in a decorative style around her
(33:53):
neck, likely Beth because of the killer's signature, because the Boston Strangler's
attacks are really beginning to elevate and he's becoming violent.
Not only had Beverly been strangled, but she had been stabbed four times in the neck and
22 times in the abdomen.
18 of these wounds hit the killer's bullseye right over the heart.
(34:16):
This killer had left the knife used in the attack in Beverly's sink before leaving the
scene.
Now, it's speculated Beth that because Beverly was an accomplished singer, as a matter of
fact, she had plans to try out for a professional job at the New York Met that year.
Police believe that the Boston Strangler had a difficult time strangling Beverly, likely
(34:39):
due to her strong neck muscles, which could be the reason behind his knife attack in this
instance.
That sounds plausible.
And obviously the Strangler had to have known her in some form because the handkerchief
was in the mouth.
We didn't hear anything about that with any of the other ladies.
(35:00):
So true.
And he put another cloth over her face and typically when you cover them up, they do
know they're victim.
Wow, you had a good point, Beth.
On September 8th, 1963, 50 year old Evelyn Corbin was found also with her panties stuffed
inside her mouth and two silk stockings around her neck.
(35:21):
This crime looked as if someone had come in to rob her because a jewelry tray had been
found on the floor and Evelyn's purse had been dumped out on the couch, although nothing
appeared to have been stolen.
I mean, you know, he's changing his style here a little bit.
Well, that makes me wonder if all of these cases are done by the same person.
(35:42):
Yeah.
Because the styles have changed.
You're right.
And maybe this is one of the reasons why DeSalvo was never specifically pinpointed as the Boston
Strangler because the styles are somewhat similar.
Was there a copycat trying to make it look like the Boston Strangler?
(36:04):
You're right.
That's a good thought process.
Now, the Boston Strangler's next victim had somewhat been overshadowed at this time, Beth,
when President John F. Kennedy's assassination took place on November 22nd, 1963.
23 year old Joanne Graff was discovered the next day on November 23rd, 1963.
(36:26):
She had been beaten and found with two silk stockings tied in a bow around her neck.
Joanne was religious in her faith and was an industrial designer who was believed to
have been attacked a few days earlier.
Joanne did have teeth marks on one of her breasts that had never been seen before.
And that's why I'm saying things are escalating.
(36:47):
Just as in Sophie Clark's case, there was a witness in Evelyn's case as well.
Because of the Boston Strangler's high activity in the city, a neighbor in Evelyn's apartment
was alerted when he heard somebody in the hallway just outside their door.
When they went to investigate, and I'm going to say likely through the peephole, Beth,
(37:07):
because they witnessed a man standing at the door across the hall wearing green pants,
a dark jacket and slicked back hair.
I feel like it was the Elvis Presley era where his hairstyle was popular at the time.
Albert DeSalvo wore his hair slicked back just like Elvis.
The witness had overheard the man in the green pants asking if Joanne Graff lived there.
(37:31):
He was redirected downstairs one flight directly below the apartment where he had knocked on
the door.
Clearly, he had to have known who Joanne was.
He knocked on the door asking if that's where she lived, asking by name, and then people
knew each other in the building.
So when he was redirected downstairs, he knew who his victim was going to be.
(37:53):
Now the eyewitness also heard the man knocking on Joanne's door and her answering it, but
that's about it.
Joanne was discovered deceased a few days later.
All right, Beth, we're getting down to our last victim before the attacks stopped.
On January 4th, 1964, 19-year-old Mary Sullivan, who was discovered by her roommates as they
(38:17):
returned from work after a long day.
Mary was found inside of her bedroom sitting upright.
She had been assaulted and strangled with one silk stocking and two silk scarves.
One of the scarves was bright pink and had been tied up in that signature bow that the
Boston Strangler was known for.
The other scarf was floral and tied up in the same manner.
(38:40):
This time, the Boston Strangler left a new calling card, which I find so bizarre, Beth,
like all of his tendencies are changing.
They are.
Well, quite literally, he did leave that calling card because at Mary's feet, the Boston Strangler
had left a card that read, Happy New Year.
(39:02):
What a creep.
I mean, he is truly just playing cat and mouse here at this point.
Yeah, getting very arrogant.
Yes.
Well, by now, police were offering a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the
arrest of the Boston Strangler.
Let's get back to Albert DeSalvo as a person and his possibility of being the Boston Strangler
(39:27):
because at this point, he had not been identified, arrested or charged with being so, which again,
you know what?
I really don't understand because the police always said there was never enough evidence
to charge DeSalvo with these crimes, but he left a lot of evidence.
In my opinion, Beth, I am not a professional, but he did leave some evidence behind.
(39:49):
He had left some bodily fluids.
He had left bite marks on one of the victim's bodies, which, you know, they could do a dental
comparison and come up with that.
He left that bloody knife in the kitchen sink.
So I realize we are 40 years away from DNA evidence, but blood and tooth mark samples
(40:09):
could have been investigated during that era.
Yeah.
I just wish they would have taken this further with it, especially with a tooth mark.
Yeah, because that was some concrete evidence there.
But as of now, we asked the question, why did the Boston Strangler's movements suddenly
stop?
Because Albert DeSalvo couldn't help himself.
(40:30):
He was beginning to escalate.
He continued to get in trouble with the law, which ended up landing him behind bars for
good soon after Mary Sullivan's death.
By 1964, DeSalvo had found himself convicted of multiple crimes for ongoing assaults, burglaries,
and sexual offenses on record, which I did not get into, Beth.
(40:54):
I mean, some of them I did as far as the measuring man, the green man.
But by 1964, he was behind bars for life.
That's good.
Yeah.
And as we know, DeSalvo did like to embellish his crimes, which, by the way, he never did
so when addressing the Boston Strangler attacks.
(41:14):
By 1965, while behind bars, Albert DeSalvo did have time to think about what he had done,
whether it was with the Boston Strangler activities or his other actions.
He did proceed to make a jailhouse confession about being the man behind the Boston Strangler.
Beth, guess what?
(41:35):
What?
No one believed him.
Of course not.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
I guess if somebody came up to us to confess they were a killer, we'd never believe them.
Yeah, you're right.
Well, remember now, DeSalvo was known to tell grandiose stories.
But like I said, he always told the truth that he was who the police and news media
(41:57):
said that he was behind the nicknames of the measuring man and the green man.
In the case of the Boston Strangler, police were able to corroborate DeSalvo's confessions
with the crimes.
They just didn't have evidence that they needed to charge him in any of these cases.
He seemed like a pretty intelligent person, Beth, because you can credit DeSalvo with
(42:21):
keeping one step ahead of the police, especially in the time period that he was active.
But I guess my question here is why did he decide it was time to confess?
I mean, I don't think he had much of a conscience, but you do know that people get a thrill from
inserting themselves into sensational cases, even when they are not the one who's responsible.
(42:44):
Yes, exactly.
So did he insert himself because it was a big story at the time?
We'll never know.
After admitting his guilt, the police, his psychiatrist and his appointed lawyer, Mr.
F. Lee Bailey, a celebrated lawyer who, by the way, was assigned to other high profile
(43:04):
cases like Patty Hearst.
Remember that from episode 63 on Dying to be Found?
Oh, yeah.
And the infamous O.J. Simpson trial.
Lee advised Albert DeSalvo to retract his confession as being the Boston Strangler.
DeSalvo did just that.
He was never charged in any of the cases tied to the Boston Strangler until decades later,
(43:28):
which I will get to in just a moment.
That sounds very interesting to know why the change.
Yeah.
Well, after Albert DeSalvo was sentenced in 1964 for the crimes that sent him to prison
for life, he was soon housed at Walpole State Prison by 1967.
(43:48):
Walpole State Prison today is known as the Massachusetts Correctional Institute at Cedar
Junction.
DeSalvo was only there for about six years when, unfortunately, Beth, his life ended
prematurely.
Oh.
You can take that as a sarcastic statement or not.
You know, my dry sense of humor here, but I do.
(44:10):
Mm hmm.
Well, some people believe that criminals like Albert DeSalvo deserve to live a long life
in prison, suffering the consequences of their actions and thinking about it every day.
Others believe it's a waste of tax dollars.
I'll let you decide on that.
On November 26th, 1973, DeSalvo died under mysterious circumstances after being stabbed
(44:35):
to death by an unidentified inmate.
Or was it a cover up?
We'll never know.
There was never enough information on why or how this stabbing occurred.
DeSalvo seemed to keep to himself, but again, Beth, he liked to play those mind games.
So you never know who had it in for him while he was behind bars.
(44:56):
Maybe they had it in for him because he confessed to being the Boston Strangler and some people
are protective of the females in their family.
Albert DeSalvo died at age 42 without ever being officially identified as the Boston
Strangler during his lifetime.
This didn't happen until 50 years later in the year 2013.
(45:18):
Oh, do tell.
Well, Beth, we know that DNA helps solve crimes today, even from cold cases from decades earlier.
And this case is no different.
In 2013, one of Albert DeSalvo's nephews left a water bottle on a construction site where
police picked it up and had it tested for DNA.
(45:39):
I mean, okay, I'm sorry.
I do not know what kind of surveillance they were doing on DeSalvo's nephew.
Were they specifically trying to track him because, you know, you watch these shows on
TV where detectives wait for them to throw their water bottle away and then they run
and grab it and then they perform the DNA.
(46:00):
Yeah.
So imagine that.
That's what they did.
Maybe the family was just uncooperative.
They were not willing to give their DNA.
That's very strange though.
Yeah, I thought so too.
So if any of our listeners know the answer to that, we are always looking for answers
here on Dying to be Found when Deb can't find the research on it.
Well, DNA samples produced a 99.99% match to 19 year old Mary Sullivan, the Boston Strangler's
(46:27):
last victim.
Police were finally able to connect Albert DeSalvo with the Boston Strangler based on
semen left at the scene.
So DeSalvo was officially linked to all 13 murders in the Boston area that he had openly
admitted to being responsible for way back in 1964.
(46:49):
Although DeSalvo put off his grandiose stories about his crimes, I always said, Beth, he's
not a liar.
As of today, police officials do believe that Albert DeSalvo is the Boston Strangler, but
family members continue to dispute it.
Now Hulu put out a true crime thriller back in just 2023 that supposedly provides the
(47:13):
truth behind the Boston Strangler.
This seems to be the most recent tale, so it would likely have updated information including
that DNA evidence.
I mean, I haven't seen it.
I would love to know if you get a chance to look at that or any of our listeners.
But for now, Beth, that's the story of Albert DeSalvo, also known as the Measuring Man,
(47:36):
the Green Man, and now the Boston Strangler.
Well, that's the icing on the cake for Dine to be Found.
I've been wanting to know the story, the full story about this, so I'm really glad you did
this episode.
I couldn't think of a better episode to start off season three.
I just had to do it.
I told you for a long time I would do it.
(47:57):
Yes, ever since season one.
Really?
It's been that long?
Yep.
Huh.
Okay.
Don't be asking for any anytime soon because we are only going to once a month episodes.
Okay.
Because you know, I decided to start this other podcast called Insinuation.
So yeah, go check that one out.
(48:18):
And Deb, do you have a teachable moment for us today?
Oh, it has been a long time since I have given our listeners a teachable moment.
I know that these crimes occurred back in the era where many people slept with their
doors unlocked.
But in today's day and age, we know that things have definitely changed.
(48:40):
Today we have home camera systems that are very affordable and most people seem to be
aware of their surroundings.
I know you are and I know I am.
I guess my teachable moment here, Beth, is just to be diligent with your personal safety.
Invest in those cameras around your home.
Lock your doors.
(49:01):
Don't answer the door if you're not expecting someone.
Get a large dog if your living space allows it.
Because I think that we had an episode where Shelby and I talked about dogs being one of
the best security systems that you can have.
Don't get one of those puny dogs though because they bark at everything and we know the little
boy that cries wolf, you're going to stop listening to that dog at some point in time.
(49:24):
Just do your due diligence in keeping your living space as safe as possible, especially
if you are a woman living alone.
Take a self-defense course.
Take a firearm safety course.
Take karate or jujitsu.
Be aware of your surroundings and crowded parking lots.
I can't tell you Beth how many times I've been surprised by somebody coming out of nowhere
(49:48):
as I approach my car in a shopping center.
I know that's happened to you.
Scary?
Definitely scary.
But just be mindful that although we think that we are living in a good world for the
most part, there are still bad people living amongst us who are looking for that right
opportunity to invade your space.
(50:09):
So that's my teachable moment.
It's a very good one, especially let's look at taking in a self-defense course.
It was mandatory in high school, but I really could use a refresher.
I have never taken a self-defense course, but I have taken a firearms safety course.
Very good.
Yeah.
(50:29):
So anything that you can do to keep one step ahead.
Well, we would love to receive feedback from our listeners on today's storyline or any
of our other episodes.
Be sure to DM us on Instagram or send us an email at dying the number two, the letter
be found at gmail.com.
And Beth, I'm so glad that you were here to join me today because it's always good to
(50:52):
see you.
I know that season three is going to be different this year because I am working with Mary Ann
from the social detective podcast on our new project insinuation podcast.
Be sure to check that out.
We have had to scale back here a little bit on dying to be found because honestly, not
going to lie, I'm a little busy, but do be looking for new episodes with Beth, Shelby,
(51:17):
Corey, and myself.
In the meantime, thanks for listening to dying to be found true crime podcast.
We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, tick tock, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest
at dying to be found.
If you have a storyline that you would like to hear, click on the link tree account found
in our show notes and fill out a storyline request.
(51:37):
Be sure to give us a five star review, which really does help us out in the rankings.
You're supporting us by buying us a coffee at buy me a coffee.com slash dying to be found.
Thanks again, everyone.
And we will talk to you soon.
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