Episode 437: The Next Lucrative Opportunity with Business Central

In this episode of Dynamics Corner, Kris, and Brad chat with Rory De Goede about Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central. They dive into the current scene, packed with opportunities for job seekers and companies seeking talent. They cover a range of interesting topics, including the changing needs in the Business Central world, how artificial intelligence (AI) is making its mark, and what the future holds for ERP implementations. Whether you're on the hunt for a job or seeking the perfect candidate, this episode offers great insights into the opportunities and challenges in the Business Central space. Be sure to check it out for a clearer look at this exciting field!

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:01):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics
Corner.
What is the good things that arehappening in Dynamics?
I'm your co-host Chris.

SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
And this is Brad.
This episode was recorded onNovember 17th, 2025.
Chris, Chris, Chris.
What are the good things thatare happening with Business
Central?
What are partners looking forfor talent for Business Central?
And also, what are ourpredictions for what's big for
2026 with Business Central?
With us today, we had theopportunity to speak with all
good things with Rory the Good.

(00:52):
Rory, good afternoon, sir.
How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 (00:56):
Doing well.
How are you guys?

SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Hanging in there, hanging in there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
Not too bad.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
My slang today.
Hanging in there.
What?
It's that bad.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06):
Um when you're hanging, when you're hanging in
there, Brad, that means you'relike on the ledge about to fall
off.
Yeah.
And you're just hanging inthere.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
I guess, yeah, I guess it could have a negative
tone to it or a negativeappearance when someone says
they're hanging in there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:26):
But in in Australia, that's very common.
Almost everyone, when you asksomeone like, Oh, how are you?
They're like, not bad.
That's how they start.
Not bad.
Like, that's that's the cup halfempty.

SPEAKER_05 (01:41):
Yeah, it's bad, but not that bad, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
So should we start this over?

SPEAKER_04 (01:48):
Are we recording?

SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Well, he's recording.
So we can start we can justpretend.

SPEAKER_04 (01:53):
Oh no no.

SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
How are you?
Yeah, not bad.
Good.
Good.
That's kind of like the uh glassis half empty.
I'm a glass is half full kind ofguy.

SPEAKER_05 (02:07):
Unless you're hanging in there, Brad.

SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
I'm not hanging in there, and you didn't ask me how
I'm doing.

SPEAKER_05 (02:12):
How are you doing?
Oh yeah, that's where westarted.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
I'm doing very well.
That's great.

SPEAKER_05 (02:19):
That's great.

SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
I'm not not bad.

SPEAKER_05 (02:21):
That's even bad enough people saying that.
Can you say can you say I'mdoing not that great?

SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Well, not that great.
Well, not that great has anegative uh uh tone to it as
well.
So I think you just have to bedoing well, doing great.
Uh fine.
Fine even sounds like anegative.
It's like I'm fine.
I'm fine.

SPEAKER_04 (02:46):
Yeah, that's true.
All of it is better than sayingI'm busy.
I've been busy.

SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
You can just say I'm good.
I'm doing good.
Everything everything israinbows and butterflies for me.
Happy, green grass, brightflowers, butterflies, during
winter fallen bees.
During yes, winter.

SPEAKER_04 (03:13):
You you left you left Florida, right?
Right now I'm not in Florida,no.
Okay, because I am uh you seemedmore positive last time I spoke
to you.

SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
See well it is true because when you go from Florida
where we did have a we did havea cold front.
Uh when you go from Floridawhere it's typically sunny all
day, every day, and even duringthe winter, the temperatures

(03:47):
where I'm located do not fallbelow, Chris.
You have to get the conversionbefore below like 70 degrees
Fahrenheit, 72 degreesFahrenheit.
But when I was there recently,we were down to I think we get
down to like the mid-sixties.
So it was it was cold.
Uh but then I came up here andit was 18 degrees this morning.

(04:08):
Um, so that's a wide temperaturerange.
And it's dark all the time.
And that's impressive.
1600, it turns, it feels likemidnight.
Like yesterday at 1600, 1630, itwas pitch black.
And I really felt like it was2100 at night.
Like 2130.
I almost like was ready for bed.

SPEAKER_05 (04:28):
That is so true.
Because I went out and hung outwith a friend at at um at 1730,
and I was like, oh yeah, I'mgonna hang out.
By the time it's you know 1930,I'm like, man, it's bedtime, but
it was only 1930.

SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
So that's why I I was more cheerful last time
because I had the brightsunshine and now I'm in the
cold, dark, miserable climate,and the trees have all lost
their leaves.
Well, almost all lost theirleaves.
And it's just not that prettyvibrant.
It's starting to get into thatgray portion of the year.

SPEAKER_04 (05:00):
So you know that's uh it's a thing in the in the
Nordic countries and even evenin the Netherlands where I'm
from, to have like sun sunlighttherapy.
Like people that get a bitdepressed in winter, they do
sunlight therapy, and that seemsto work.

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yes.
Uh that's I that's why I likeFlorida during the winter
because you have constantsunlight therapy.
And it m it does make a bigdifference.
I think uh feeling the warm sunor feeling uh the in getting the
bright sun makes a bigdifference.
And from the Netherlands, uh MaxVerstappen.

SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
I'm I'm not uh not a massive F1fan, but I like how he tends to
upset people and just um changesthe status quo within uh within
driving.
I like that reputation.

SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
I don't like him at all.

SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
I I know you told me.

SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
I just want to make that clear everybody knows.
I'm team uh McLaren and Landothis year, regardless of all
their papaya rules and all thisuh piastry stuff.
But since we're not talkingabout F1 and we wanted to have a
different topic, let's firsthear a little bit about
yourself.

SPEAKER_04 (06:03):
Sure.
Anything in particular you wantto know?

SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Well tell us a little bit about you.
Who are you?
What do you do?

SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
Uh well, my name is Rory de Guda.
I'm born in the Netherlands.
Um I'm not in the Netherlandsanymore.
I left ten years ago.
I uh I lived in Spain, I livedin Australia.
That's uh I met my wife who'shalf Philippine and half Costa
Rican, uh having two kids inAustralia.
Um decided like hey, we wantmore, but not without family,

(06:32):
and Australia is amazing, um,but very far from everywhere.
So we decided to move to CostaRica, so that's where we are
right now, and had had our thirdkid this uh this year.
Umgratulations.

SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
Congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 (06:45):
Thank you.
Uh when we moved, I so I'm a I'ma recruiter.
Um as but I say recruiter, butthat's because worldwide when
you say recruiter, people thinkabout permanent placements and
contracting placements.
But in the US I think it'sdifferent.
You have to say either you're arecruiter, but then they think
direct hires, or you're astaffer, or like you do staffing

(07:06):
services.
I do both for in the dynamicsfield.
Um but I had to start my ownbusiness when I moved to Costa
Rica two years ago.
Um so that's that's what I'mdoing right now.
Um living living the living thedream basically with a beautiful
family living in Costa Ricawhere the days aren't long, like
sun is up 5 a.m.

(07:27):
every day, goes down six p.m.
every day.
But it's sunny every day.
It is sunny, you've got a rainyseason, but it's not that bad.
Um so it's nice.

SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
The closer you are to the equator, the more
consistent your days are.
And that's I have theseconversations because you don't
have the angle of the earth andthe sun.
That's why the days aretypically longer in the northern
northern or southern hemisphere,that the the tips of them, than
they are at the equator becausethey the angle of the sun.

(08:01):
So it is so you're the same wayas the southern portions or the
southernmost port most portionsof the United States.
And you are living the dreambecause when you and I were
talking the other day, uh youwere talking about the monkeys
being outside in the trees.
I'm like, that must be amazing.
Uh just to be able to go outsideand you have monkeys running in
the wild.

SPEAKER_04 (08:21):
So and we don't do daylight savings, which is
painful when you have to workwith the US because I mix up
setting up interviews for mycandidates when I I just set up
the wrong times.
That has happened.
Um but there's consistencies,like if you have kids or pets,
like the daylight that the timetime change messes everything up

(08:43):
for at least a week, and wedon't have that here.

SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
I wish that we I wish that we didn't have
daylight savings.
They were supposed to stop that.
They've been saying that sincelong before all of us were born.
I think that I know I know itwas when it was started, it was
started long before we wereborn, but I even think when I
was younger they were talkingabout it.
I don't think in the UnitedStates they'll ever get there.
I wish they would.
But I also believe there shouldbe one time.

(09:08):
I believe that 0600 should be0600 everywhere in the world.
And if you go to bed at 0600because it's 200 today, that's
fine.
But you just get used to it.
So we don't have this.
Do you celebrate the do youexcuse me, do you honor daylight
savings?
Do you not?
Do you do this like you hadmentioned?
It gets really challenging.
And then some, I believe, somelocations I think also shift on

(09:30):
different at shift shift atdifferent periods of time.
I don't think everybody switchesthe times at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 (09:38):
I could be mistaken, but no, no, correct.
There's they do it at several uhdifferent different times.
Like the the Europe does it adifferent time than the US.
Uh Australia does it a differenttime as well.
Yep.
It's different.

SPEAKER_00 (09:52):
So not only do we have to worry if somebody
switches, we also have to worryabout when it is.
But speaking of switching, uhyou work with uh staffing and
recruiting and placement forcandidates within the Dynamics
365 space.
Do you work primarily with uhBusiness Central or do you cover
Power Platform, BusinessCentral, FNO, X, FNX, AX,

(10:16):
whatever they want to call it?
F and S E M.
Yeah, I forget.

SPEAKER_04 (10:19):
Um most of my business comes from uh F and O
and BC for somehow most of thework comes from the
manufacturing space as well.
So ERP manufacturing warehousingum is where I do most of uh most
of the business for both F and Oand M B C.
Now I have a network in powerplatform and and CE, but demand

(10:44):
is is a lot less on that side,so I focus on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
Okay, and how long have you been working with uh
staffing for Business Central?

SPEAKER_04 (10:54):
Two years.
When I started because I startedas an SAP recruiter 14 years
ago.
Ah no.
I know, I know, but then thismight people might find this
interesting.
So when I was in Australia and Iknew and we were planning to
move to to this part of theworld, I had zero network in the

(11:16):
US.
So, like, well, if I got nonetwork in SF, what I was used
to, I might as well consider theother ERP platforms.
So I did a I did a simplesearch, okay, who's got the most
jobs, like, and this was justlooking on LinkedIn the most job
openings, and then who's got themost talent in that same space?

(11:36):
The so I compared SAP to Oracle,Salesforce, Workday, and
Microsoft Dynamics.
By far, Microsoft Dynamics hasthe biggest talent shortage.
There were, if you would justlook, there were for SAP, there
were for each job that wasadvertised, there were 30, the
ratio was one to thirty, so 30candidates per job out there in

(11:57):
the market.
For Microsoft Dynamics, it's onein five.
Massive difference.

SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Wow, that's a large difference.

SPEAKER_04 (12:04):
So like as a recruiter, you need to go where
the shortage is.
So I switched.
I like it's still ERP, so I canstill talk my talk my talk, just
need to learn the differentmodules.
And it's working.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (12:18):
And do you work with partners primarily or end
customers?

SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
Yes, I do both.
Um, but most of my work so farcomes from the partners because
they they got most of theprojects.

SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Okay.
So with that, so you've beendoing this for about two years.
Uh have you noticed a change inthe candidates that the partners
are looking for?
Uh what you what's your take oryour viewpoint on over the past
two years that you've beenworking with it?
I know within the last two yearsa lot has been introduced to the
application.
Yeah.
And I like to load up thequestions.

(12:51):
And also, is there still ashortage?
Is that number you had mentionedyou started doing the search
years ago and you saw a one infive.
Are we still at that same ratioor has the ratio changed?

SPEAKER_04 (13:03):
I've not done the same search since I decided,
okay, I'm gonna go for uh I'mgonna go for dynamics.
And that was just that searchwas just to see, okay, how much
is there out there in the in theentire US market?
Um that was five.
So that wasn't necessarily fivepeople per job that are looking

(13:25):
for a job, but there was fivethat are that exist that have a
dynamics job title.
Um so has the has it changed?
What has changed is it's been aslower year.
Like we we were all at dynamicsuh at the summit in in Orlando.

(13:46):
I walked up to a lot of partnerbooths to talk about uh to talk
like hey, how how is your how'syour year been?
And a lot of people have saidfrom the partners that this year
has been slower compared to uhto other years.
Um how to translate to the tothe candidates.
They the ones that areavailable, like employers are a

(14:08):
bit more picky these days.
They also the the salaries arekind are um correcting a bit
because they went a bit crazyduring uh during the COVID
years, uh because everyone washiring, everyone was uh asking
for higher salaries.
This was worldwide.
Um they're coming down a bit,contracting rates have come down
a little bit in the past 18months.
Um availability the generic onesis are a little a bit more

(14:34):
available, but when you needsomeone with specific
manufacturing skills or theyneed to be a CPA finance person,
it's there's still it's still atight market.
I don't know if that completelyanswers your question.
If you were hoping for some moremeat.

SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
No, no, no.
Anything you answer, I've beenI'm hoping for.
It's not uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 (14:55):
It sounds more focused though, is what you're
saying.
It's more it's not thegenerality of a functional
consultant.
You're you're you're lookingmore of a specific specialist
role.

SPEAKER_04 (15:05):
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah, that that's because thoseare the ones that my clients
struggle to fill themselves.
My clients will always try andfill the roles themselves first,
and the m the more generic theyare, the easier it is to find.
But once then they need like,yeah, someone who's been in the
manufacturing space for tenyears or has been on the
operation sides of manufacturingbefore they moved to dynamics.

(15:27):
That's a very specific profile.
That's that's when they call me.

SPEAKER_00 (15:31):
I have so many questions on that, but I don't
want to take away what Ioriginally wanted to talk with
you about.
But maybe we'll we'll get backto that pool of talented
individuals with specific nicheskills or specific skills you're
looking for.
But uh you had mentioned it's alittle bit slower.
Uh you had mentioned slower inwithin what regard is part as

(15:57):
the need or slower on the flipside is uh staffing?

SPEAKER_04 (16:02):
Slower in projects, new projects being won by the by
the part or in general uh newprojects being kicked off this
year.
Um the the one answer that I getfrom at least 80% of the
partners that I've spoken tothis year has been that um the

(16:22):
uh pen to paper, no one'sputting pen to paper pipelines
are still being filled with interms of like leads coming
through the through thepipeline, but they're not
putting pen to paper by kickingoff the project.
Therefore the partners have lessprojects, or not that many, uh
new ones, um, and thereforethey're not hiring.
And if no one's hiring, no one'skicking off projects that flows

(16:45):
through my industry.

SPEAKER_05 (16:46):
I wonder what that is though.
That is an interesting thing,uh, because I asked the same
thing.
I think Rory, you and I had aconversation during summit, even
two years, uh not not this lastyear, uh, where partners were
sharing that.
I think there was a session, uhsome conversation around that
space where you're right,there's there is a lot of
opportunity still coming in, alot of leads, but then you the

(17:08):
actual signage of project goingoff is it's not happening as
quickly.
It's not meeting the volume ofleads into an actual project.
Uh now it may be maybe it'slonger now, where before it's
like, you know, 30 days to 45days, they're gonna sign the
project and they're gonna moveforward.

(17:29):
But now it seems to be a littlebit longer.
It's no longer that 30, 45 days,it could be three months.
So the question is, why is thathappening?
You know, considering thatthere's so many things that
Business Central can do issimplifying it.
I where why is that happening?

SPEAKER_04 (17:46):
I had um I don't I don't know for sure.
All I know is the answers that Iget from asking many people.
So the the the answer I got themost was um was first uh the
well it's the uncertaintytariffs.
Companies, well tariffs are werenew, like the new policies in

(18:07):
the in the US, import tariffs.
Like companies were in a holdingpattern to assess okay, what's
the impact to our business orour industry before we're gonna
do new investments?
That was one answer.
Um tax reforms, like I think yougot the the one big beautiful
bill that that was like, oh, wehave to assess what does this
mean to us.

(18:28):
That was the answer I got mostof the time.
So first I thought, oh, this isall US related until then I
spoke to a partner that has mostof their business in Europe and
they were experiencing the exactsame thing.
So now, like, is it really thetariffs or is it something
global that's going on?
Um I think it's a bit of a bitof both, but in general, maybe

(18:49):
everyone's looking to the to theUS for their own decision
making, like okay, what's the USeconomy gonna do?
And then we can make decisions.
That that could be it.
But I found it surprising thatthe same pattern was happening
in Europe when most of thearguments that I got were very
US related.
So I don't know with acertainty.

SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
That is interesting.
I had heard similar uh feedbackwith talking with individuals.
A lot of individuals are busy,the pipelines are strong, and I
was wondering w if any of it hadto do with the evolution of the
application itself.
And what I mean by that is overthe past several years,

(19:36):
Microsoft has done a great jobat uh documentation, has done a
great job at putting outinformation for individu and
also features, added featuresand documentation with Microsoft
Learn.
Uh they've created a lot of uhvideos, uh as you know, they're
creating through some series ofhow, and also not just

(19:58):
Microsoft, other uh individualsthat work with the application.
You can call them contentcreators for the sake of this uh
conversation, in the sense thatthey produce output and it's
easier to find that information.
My question is is there a changein the partner dynamic in their
relationship to customers?
Because customers can do morethemselves with the ability to

(20:22):
do so.
It's if you look at theevolution of the application
back when the vision was firstintroduced here in the United
States, you had a small partnernetwork, the application was
updated at a wider interval, youneeded to have licensing to make
modifications, and that hasevolved that that concept had

(20:44):
been carried forward through theon-premises, and it's still in
place for the on-premises withlicensing, well, excuse me, not
with licensing, like withobjects, uh, and then with
Microsoft Dynamics Nav, youneeded to still have the
license.
But now we're in this open worldwhere new customers are going to
go with Business Central.
A lot of the older customers orlong-term users of Business

(21:07):
Central that started early backin the day have now migrated to
Business Central to where nowit's a more feature-rich
application, moreinformation-rich application,
and in essence almost cheaperbecause the licensing, if you're
going with Business CentralOnline, you're just paying for
your user licensing, anyadditional space that you need,

(21:28):
or any ISV solutions that youneed.
You can enhance the applicationif you need it, but again, with
it being feature-rich, you maynot need it.
Yeah.
So I'm wondering how much ofthat is in how much of that has
been how much of the partnerrequirement has been impacted by
that?
And does that change the type oftalent that a partner needs to

(21:53):
staff because the partner,excuse me, customers can do more
on their own in in essence.
And I'm not saying that's ablanket.
I I know I'm on a long ranthere, but you have customers of
varying skill level.
But did the skill level changeor the requirements change
because now you don't need a lotof that uh specific or custom

(22:16):
permissions, licensing, orknowledge because a lot of it's
being shared, and then some ofthe licensing has been opened
up.

SPEAKER_05 (22:22):
I agree, Brad.
I I think there's a big shift.
Now you and I have been in thisspace in the nav space for quite
some time.
You know, when you when youimplement nav, you have to have
a server, you know, it requiresa huge team to set that up.
With the transition to SaaS,clearly it there's a huge shift
uh where you can just buy alicense and your environment's
put up and it's well documentedthat you can put your own data

(22:46):
in there.
Um, you know, clearly you'llneed a consultant to for best
practices.
But in many cases of just to getstarted, it's pretty uh well
documented, it's prettystraightforward.
I think that's where the shiftis.
And on top of that, ISVs, youhave an app source now, right?
You can just search for whatyou're looking for.
I no longer need to consult witha uh uh uh with a consultant or

(23:10):
a partner.
It's like I can just get the appmyself, but you still do need to
consult if you are an end user,you still need to consult to
make sure that this tool is theright tool for your business.
Um, but I think it's gonna bemore of a guidance uh consulting
uh than application consulting,I guess.

SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Yes, and that's sort of what I was wondering, and
that's sort of what I've beenthinking, or similar, not sort
of.
I'm I'm all of the slings today.
See, it's you guys set me offwith the hanging in there.
The that's that's similar towhat I was trying to determine
or trying to uh uh uh get fromtalking with individuals.

(23:49):
Not necessarily saying that theneed for a partner or a certain
level of expertise is gone.
There is a need.
Again, you you buy thisfeature-rich application that in
essence becomes the lifeblood orthe heart of your organization,
right?
To me, an ERP application is notsomething you just go, oh, I'm
gonna buy this, I'll set it uptomorrow, and my whole
organization will run fine.
Granted, now if you're justdoing financials, maybe you

(24:12):
could do that.
I'll do a one-to-user system, Ijust need to do a couple journal
entries, set up my chart ofaccounts, I'm okay.
But any organization that doessomething, they they have uh
procurement, uh, orders,inventory, management.
I mean, it's a little bit moreto set it up, and it's not
something to take lightly.
But is there a shift frompartners doing all of the heavy

(24:33):
lifting to being more of anadvisory role and then doing
more similar to what you hadmentioned with the staffing?
It's sort of what I was thinkingof.
Is that trend of, okay, well,your customers in this case will
s will find the talent that'smore generic or simple, but then
that niche specialty type talentthey'll come to you.

(24:55):
So is that transitioning fromthe customer point of view that
okay, I can do a lot of thisgeneralization myself because
that information is available,but then I'll go to my partner
or a partner or find somebody tohelp me with the implementation.
And in some cases, many partnersto do specific things uh for

(25:16):
them.

SPEAKER_04 (25:17):
Yeah.
Um the one thing that I that Ido know is I I rarely come
across companies that will dothe implementation themselves.
So uh because you made uh youmade a comment with how the
landscape is has evolved.
Um more informationdocumentation is out there,
maybe companies are more capableof doing it themselves.

(25:41):
I see a lot of companies beinguncomfortable doing that still,
like for at least theimplementation, they'd like to
lean on a partner.
I do think you're right that thepartner needs to evolve in terms
of services ongoing that theyneed to uh need to offer.
And it might start indeed moreas advisory rather than just

(26:02):
reposition we doimplementations, maybe get
getting in earlier to already bepart of the the advisory um
stage or like the the roadmapplanning basically before they
even choose on business businesscentral.
Um but once it's implementedindeed, like what ongoing

(26:22):
services could they could theyprovide for uh for the customers
as well.
And once that starts when whenthey bring up new offerings,
that then changes the profile ofthe people working for that or
that need to be recruited for itwould be the short answer.

SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
So part so again, so I think so the the partner
landscape is changing because ofthe cycle of implementation
where uh uh someone doesn't wantto do it all themselves because
of newness and because of theimportance of the application,
but what they lean on a partnerfor is changing from when it

(27:02):
was, okay, you do everything, inessence, to help guide us
through the process.
We'll tell you what you can dofor us.
And again, these are general.
I'm not saying and we're notwe're talking about this here.
We're we're generally speakingof what we may be seeing versus
or what you may be seeing, orChris, if any of your exposure
as well, versus everyimplementation, because no two

(27:24):
implementations are the sameacross the board.
So uh there's always ends of theextremes.
I'm just talking, generallyspeaking, with the with the
volumes, uh the number ofcustomers I think that are
having somebody do everything,or even continue once they're up
and running with the partner, Ithink the relationship is also

(27:44):
changing.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (27:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think there's alittle bit of shift too because
you know, uh with a SaaSproduct, um it you know, if
you're if you're a smallbusiness that maybe you have
five users or ten users backthen, you know, it still
requires a team to set that upwith you know with a nav with
nav application.
With BC, you get a license, andif there's only five of you, you

(28:10):
could probably do it yourself.
I'm not saying all of it, but agood chunk of the tedious work
that uh you may not want your apartner to do, like uh data
migration or something of somesort.
For example, I came across onenot long ago where they reached
out and said, I just need alicense, right?

(28:31):
And uh I will do it myself.
We're just a finance uh onlyorganization.
So and I've heard partners saidthe same thing, like they've
come across clients or prospectswhere they just need to know
somebody is there for them ifthey get stuck or they may ask
for best practices, but majorityof the work they're willing to
take on because they have thatone guy, maybe one IT person

(28:54):
that says, Yeah, I can do a datamigration, I can look it up in
AI, they'll teach me how to doyou know, or copilot, they'll
teach me to migrate.

SPEAKER_04 (29:05):
What what what do you guys think of that?
Because when I whenever I speakto people about failed projects,
the two things that always comeup are either change management
or data migration.

SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
I data migrations data migration is a challenge.
And the reason why I say it's achallenge, because if you don't
understand the data structureson either side, you could run
into some challenges because notmany systems will have the same
schema for their data.

(29:42):
And also each system may haveadditional data that impacts how
the operation flows.
Change management, I agree withyou 100%, is a big impact or has
a big impact on the success orfailure of an implementation as
well.
And also.
Also uh identifying the theprocesses, document and

(30:04):
processes.
Nobody likes to do anydocumentation.
A lot of times individuals liketo rely upon a person who knows
things, uh, whereas if youdocument your processes, it
helps you go through theimplementation uh ahead of time.
Uh even more so now there's manytools available that you can uh
record individual processes aspeople are performing them in

(30:27):
Business Central, so you atleast have that documentation.
But I don't think, generallyspeaking, a data migration is
something that you can rely onjust an entity to do, unless the
entity knows both systemsextremely well, and you have
your processes identified.
Because in Business Central, youcan set an item up many

(30:50):
different ways, and it hasdifferent implications on how
that item gets used.
Not to say that any of thoseways are proper or improper,
it's a matter of setting it upand maybe populating values that
you don't have in your existingsystem so that those items will
process properly through thesystem based upon how you want
to use them.
So you need to have someknowledge of the system,

(31:12):
knowledge of the schema as wellas how that data is used within
the system.
And yes, and how that datamigration gets done.
Uh because I can tell you Iworked with an implementation,
they did a poor data migration,they went through the process,
they didn't have any consistencywith the data going the data
being generated, or anyconsistency with the data being

(31:34):
imported, and they didn'tidentify problems to a year
later because they thoughtthings were running smoothly,
and then they went to run someuh financial information and
they realized that the way thatthey imported their data was
extremely uh awkward for thesystem.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (31:52):
Yeah, I I I agree with Brad spot on.
I mean, like they yes, theycould do it, but you know,
typically for the datamigration, you want some
guidance around there, uh,because you're gonna get you
know garbage data in and they'regonna have some issues down the
road.
The change management component,I think that is where uh Aurora,
you had mentioned you know, thepartner should maybe change the

(32:14):
mindset a little bit.
And I think uh as a partner, youuh perhaps that's something that
you can help focus on or gonnayou know helping your clients is
like change management.
Typically that's a uh uh uh apractice that you have to go
through internally uh as an enduser.
But as a partner, perhaps that'ssomething that you want to

(32:35):
encourage or a service that youwant to offer is like, hey,
look, we'll walk you through theentire process of a change
management because it is anecessity when you're about to
implement a big ERP uh for yourorganization.
So that could be something thatum partners can start doing.
Because uh you know, back in theday it was kind of like I'm just
standing up an application foryou, I'm just a project manager,

(32:56):
you deal with your own people.
Maybe that's a shift that weneed to make.
Um I think a lot of them aredoing that already.
A lot of partners are startingto do that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
No, I I think yes, change management has always
been a struggle.
And I think it's the sometimesit's seeing the value of it.
It's very difficult sometimes tosee the value of it until you
don't have it.
Yeah, it's almost like aninsurance policy.
I'm paying all this money for aninsurance policy, but uh it's

(33:28):
it's a waste, you know, it'sconsidered a waste, quote, until
you need it.
And then you realize, well, whydidn't somebody tell me I needed
to have an insurance policy?
I think the same thing is withsome of that documentation, some
of those processes.
Thankful in 2025, it's a littlebit easier to do that.
And with you, you've beenworking with this for two years
in this sense.
Uh, and over this past twoyears, there has been a big

(33:51):
shift in the application as wellwith uh features, functionality,
emphasis on AI and other areas.
Have you noticed in the shift ofthe type of talent that needs to
be recruited as well?
Is if you were to look today andwhere I'm trying to get with
this question.
In 2023 or 2022, when you hadstarted this, was there a

(34:12):
significant number ofdevelopment positions available
and not so many functionalconsultants?
Whereas today, is it the sameratio?
As are there a lot morefunctional consultant project
management and less development?
What's your notice on the trendof uh positions that need to be
filled?

SPEAKER_04 (34:30):
I I haven't seen a difference in though in the or a
change in those two bit by bitand slower than I anticipated,
actually.
Um I'm seeing requirements forAI, like people need to have
worked with AI or need to becomfortable or proficient with
co-pilot.
I thought that'd go a lot fasterthough, but only bit by bit do I

(34:53):
see that as uh on the list ofrequirements where for a BC
consultant need to know how tobuild agents.
Bit by bit, that's that's that'sI see that more.

SPEAKER_05 (35:05):
That is wild.

SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
Well, I I my thought on that is it's really new.
Yeah.
The application's new.
So I think where are customersin their journey with the
application?
You have customers that theapplication's been around for a
long time.
A lot of features are added tothe application.
When do customers have theopportunity to adopt those

(35:30):
features?
So again, if I was usingMicrosoft Dynamics Nav, I I see
this, if even if you look atsome of the projects, what are
the types of projects?
There's upgrades andconversions, migrations, which
years and years, for many years,there was a lot of customers in
need of migrating to the newversion, business central
online.
That need has been decreased.
You know, that whole this isyour last upgrade that you'll

(35:51):
need.
And I say that in quotes becauseyou you may need to make some
business changes or businessprocesses or updates based upon
the functionality that's addedas they continue to add uh
wonderful enhancements to theapplication.
So that's where I'm going.
Is has there been a shift fromthe partner's uh uh space
because what are the customersdoing?
Customers that are on businesscentral, if they're on business

(36:13):
central online, that need to dothat constant upgrade every X
interval of time or n intervalof time, it's been decreased.
There's features that are added.
Does the escape the landscapechange?
And now that I'm happy to hearthat you're talking about that
because now customers may beable to capitalize on the AI
investment from the new customerpoint of view.

(36:35):
Existing customers they may haveto catch up because they've been
using it.
Yeah, whereas a new customer,it's almost okay, now it's part
of the application.

SPEAKER_04 (36:44):
And it it's uh for the new customers, it was
probably part of the decisionmaking as well that they chose
it because of the features.

SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
Yeah, yeah, see, so the the landscape is changing in
a sense.

SPEAKER_04 (36:56):
But the adoption is still relatively slow.
Um because it needs uh fromother conversations that I've
had, um indeed like there'salways change, especially when
you're talking small to mid-sizeuh businesses.
They ever everyone's got a loton their plane already.
Then you got BC introducing newfeatures all the time.
Now you've got AI as well.

(37:18):
Who's got time really to toexplore it?
Not many people.
So it's um yeah, it it's notmoving super fast yet, but it is
on everyone's radar.

SPEAKER_00 (37:31):
I think I'm not uh I'm not a psychic, nor can I
read the future, but I thinkthat velocity will change over
the next year.
I think as the AI everyone'stalking about AI, everyone's
saying, oh, it's a bubble,everyone's saying this, but I
think as AI matures within theapplication, I I think nobody
really knows where it willsettle.

(37:52):
I think a lot of AI will bethrown at Business Central as
well as other applications.
I mean, you can have AI andnotepad now, right?
They're going to throw AI ateverything in almost a sense to
see what sticks, and then somethings will fall off, other
things will be enhanced, andthen I s my opinion will be that
we'll have a need for some ofthose specialty skills because

(38:16):
it's it's really even difficultto find someone with that skill
with AI changing so rapidly.
Like everyone's talking aboutMCP at this point.
MCP didn't exist how many monthsago?
Six months ago.
I read something over theweekend as well about something
else, which is like the nextthing for AI.
So it's very difficult to adoptAI is still the next thing.

SPEAKER_04 (38:37):
It is the next thing already.

SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
It is the next thing, but we had chat-based AI
with ChatGPT and such, and thenyou went into like the thinking
models, and then you went intoMCP with the tools, and then you
know the thinking models beingable to use those.
And then now I was reading stuffabout the next thing with agents
and some of this tooling.
And it's I think it's difficultfor everyone to determine how do

(38:59):
you leverage this because it'salways in the state of infancy,
in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 (39:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:03):
And when do you become reliable?
Uh when does it become reliable?

SPEAKER_05 (39:06):
I I think because of the changes so much that it it
it's harder for SMBs to reactand find a um the right fit for
it for their organization.
I I think that's the struggle uhin itself.
Um even for me, like I there'sso many AI, I'm sure it could do
a lot of stuff for me, but wheredo I begin?
You know, which one can Iautomate?

(39:28):
Which which process can co-pilotor AI do for me that uh that
someone isn't already doing, ormaybe there's already an
automation that's already doingit.
So do I replace the automationthat I had built for for AI to
take over?
Where does it fit?
From a business perspective,that's a little difficult,

(39:48):
right?
Like for someone that says, hey,I want my sales orders that get
read from my email or or getssubmitted, you may already have
an automation for that.
You may have EDI already orwhatever.
But there's agents to createsales orders for you and things
like that.
Like, how can I fit that?
How can I that's a big change inbusinesses.
And to go back to your point oflike finding a consultant that

(40:13):
also has that experience isgoing to be a challenge because
they're also trying to figureout how can co-pilot or AI fill
in those gaps.
And it and you're right, it'sgonna take some time, uh, but I
think eventually it'll find agood footing where it would be
very good for an SMB space.

SPEAKER_04 (40:34):
Yeah.
And also going back to or umyeah, going back to one of the
questions you asked earlier,Brett, with the ongoing services
that partners could offer.
What I a trend that I'm seeingis now that AI is widely
available, not just Copilot, butAI, more and more companies are
coming up with their own IP.
Like we created this AIsolution.

(40:56):
If you work with us, we can getyou this solution, or you'll
have access to this solution.
It it will create opportun or itis creating opportunities for
partners to distinguishthemselves.
Whereas first we're like, we doimplementations and we're all
similar, very similar, but nowlike, oh but we have this this

(41:16):
uh IP, we have this solutionthat no one else has.
It it creates more opportunitiesto both continue to service the
customer and distinguishyourself from the competition.

SPEAKER_03 (41:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
That statement is profound to me for a number of
reasons.
One because and again it's thetangents that I go on sometimes.
I do see the need for partnersto be able to differentiate
themselves.
We've always had that, Ibelieve.
You needed to be able todifferentiate yourself in some

(41:51):
respect, because if you'redealing with a manufacturing
company that manufacturessomething, uh sometimes they
have a little bit more comfortin working with somebody who has
an understanding ofmanufacturing and more in tune
with exactly what they're doing,if they have that confidence
that they're going to understandhow their business works.
Now you're talking AI, andagain, some of this stuff is

(42:14):
theoretical and opinion versusuh maybe some of the trends that
you're seeing.
With AI and AI solutions beingdeveloped so quickly today, and
I had conversations with someonerecently that, and myself
included, they didn't knowanything about a particular
language or application, andthey went in a matter of a

(42:34):
couple days develop anapplication that they were ready
to use, whereas it could havetaken months before.
So having that AI IP whereothers can create that AI IP
rather quickly, I don't know howthat will impact things in the
future.
But yes, I agree with that.
You still need to have some wayto differentiate yourself in a

(42:56):
world where you have tools thathave expedited what it takes to
complete something from asystemic point of view.
Uh even more so with multiplesystems.
Now you can have AI solutionsthat span multiple solutions,
not just business central, butuh if you have uh a suite of

(43:20):
products within yourorganization to make them all
work together.
Um so it's it's uh I'm wonderingwhere all this will go.
And it's it's where will I be?
It's it's I think everybody hasthat same thought.
Uh there's some people who areare running, uh some people are
walking and then or crawling,and then you have others in the

(43:41):
middle that are doing thewalking.
So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (43:43):
And then you have you still have the people that
are on-prem and are happy wherethey are.

SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yes, you too.
You have those that are onpremises that are happy with it.
Uh but I I go with anything.
I think I think using a solutionjust because is not a good
approach.
I think using the solution thatyou need is the most important.
Uh, I think there's pros andcons to everything.
Uh is it better to have uh anice fast and speedy jet, or do

(44:15):
you just need a regular uhairplane or a bicycle or a
motorcycle to complete uh whatyou need to do?
Uh I think it's a matter ofmaking sure you're using the
right tool for the job.
Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
So it's uh but the uh it ain't broke, don't fix it,
it's not uh it's not a strategythat should be applied.

SPEAKER_05 (44:37):
Well, it's depends on content, though.
Context.

SPEAKER_00 (44:41):
I think yes, it does in some with in some regards.
If it's not broke, don't fix it.
Um but in others, I think thatmentality of of putting your
head in the sand is also not agood approach because that's
what you're yes.
No, I think I I I knew exactly.
We were the same.
You you have monkeys, I havelizards.
So you know we we understandwhat it's like.

(45:03):
The that approach is not a goodapproach because if you're in a
business and you have that, ifit's not broke, don't fix it
when it comes to process or howyou're brought operating your
organization.
Your competition is also in thethe need for how do we become
more efficient, or how can Istreamline my business, or how
can I expand my reach, or howcan I make something that gives

(45:28):
better value to my customers,therefore they want to work with
me more.
Uh whatever that may be.
It doesn't always necessarilyhave to be fast.
Uh it's it's it's eitherquality, ease of use, or ease of
of ordering or working with you,or something like that.
So it's it's interesting to see.
I think um I'm curious to seewhere we'll be, and I'm curious

(45:52):
to see with you.
We'll have to have a follow-upif you track the trends of the
type of individuals that youplace, how that changes over
time in volume.
And uh will you ever staff,recruit, place with customers
directly?
Are you still going to stickprimarily with uh partners?

(46:13):
Chris, I know you want to jumpin there too.

SPEAKER_04 (46:16):
I'll um it's always good to diversify a little bit.
So not not just be too dependenton partners, but also not too
dependent on end users, so I'llhave a blend.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:29):
So can you keep track of those stats?

SPEAKER_05 (46:31):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.
Is there is there likemind-blowing stats, you know,
like because certainly you'veworked with many different
partners, you've seen the trendsand how it's going.
Like, is there like a a uh astat that you can share with a
group?
That's like, ooh, I neverthought about that.

(46:52):
No, no, I I do have a questionfor you, Rory, uh, that that's
been in the back of my mind isthat you know, I I came across a
uh an end user that had beenworking on, you know, working in
the manufacturing space orfinance space for quite some
time, and you're like, I'm readyto be a consultant, right?
I want to go into consultancy.

(47:14):
And uh uh as you know, with uhperhaps shortages of resources
uh for the dynamic space, butthen there's like requirements
uh that you had brought up, likeyou know, knowing AI and also at
the same time, some partners maynot have the time to do, you
know, teach you how to beconsultant.

(47:36):
Like w is there uh what's goingon in that space?
Is that still happening?
Is there still a lot of peoplefrom the end user side that
wants to do consulting?
You know, is that still uh anopen opportunity for many of
them?

SPEAKER_04 (47:52):
I actually have two people in the mix right now uh
that are exactly that thatbackground that you described.
Um it's but those when I so I'vegot those at the forefront right
now.
They have been so they're bothon the end user side, they've
both been part ofimplementations, subject matter

(48:12):
experts, but they have theconsultant skills already
because they had to be aninternal consultant, they were
part of the implementation, theywere the ones that had to
document and get the processesthe other way around, get the
processes and document them.
Um so they already had thosesoft skills.
Yeah, they they need they'llneed some refining on how to

(48:34):
like because they've neverworked in consulting, so
there'll be things that theydon't know or haven't done yet.
Um they will have a good chance.
I think someone who's only beenan end user who now wants to
make the switch, they'll have abit a steeper learning curve.
Yeah, it will be a bit harderfor them.
But the ones that have had theopportunities to at least been

(48:55):
on a project, ideally proimplementation, and had the role
of being an internal consultant,not officially that that was
their job title, but that wasthe role that they were playing.
That that makes the gap a lotsmaller and less frightening to
jump over to consulting.
And therefore they're open to itbecause they do realize that

(49:16):
going to consulting will be ahuge door opener for their
career.
Where they're now a bit stuck,they don't have much growth,
especially being in a small tomid-sized business.
There's not yeah, there's onlyso much you can grow.
They can try and move to anothercompany with a similar job,
slightly bigger paycheck, butthey know if they go into
consulting and get a lot moreexposure, it will be good for

(49:37):
their career.

SPEAKER_03 (49:38):
Um that still happens.

SPEAKER_04 (49:42):
Um then it depends on the firm indeed, if they have
the bandwidth to train uppeople.
The ones that can train uppeople, they'll look at a little
less internal consultingexperience.
The ones that don't, they wantpeople to go to hit the ground
running, as they say.
That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 (50:01):
I I can understand that.
With uh uh you know, just uhkeep going all over the place as
you were talking about that.
Uh within Business Central, thatyou have the right now today,
you have the MB 800, which isthe uh functional consulting
certification, for lack ofbetter terms, and then you have
the MB 820, which is thedevelopment certification.

(50:22):
In your staffing list of uhprospects that you've worked
with or positions that youworked with, excuse me.
Has that had any weight on anyof the opportunities, or is that
always a nice to have type?
Or does it not even come up inconversation?

SPEAKER_03 (50:38):
Often clients don't ask for it.

SPEAKER_04 (50:41):
They it I think it it it helps.
Experience always counts more.
Um I think it helps in thescenario where someone hasn't um
hasn't been a consultant, forexample.
Like you don't know how muchdebt they have with the system.
Yeah, you could do a technicalinterview and ask questions like

(51:02):
tell me how you would do this,or tell me where you find this
button.
Um you can have that kind ofinterview, but if someone has
that uh the certification, atleast you know okay, they know
the they they know it at thisthis standard basic level
already, um, and have be moreconfident in that in that
without having to do that inthat type of interview.

(51:23):
But it rarely comes up when Iask my client what are the three
things you're looking for, noone's ever said need to be
certified.

SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
Okay.
I was curious about that withthe certifications.
If if anyone required of it, orif like I said, if it was one of
those like you we were talkingabout, it's a nice to have.
If you have it, you can list it,put it there.
Yeah.
It may give you a slightadvantage over someone else, but
the the real important portionis the experience with the I I

(51:54):
compare it a little bit, forexample, with like a PMI, like a
project management uhcertification.

SPEAKER_04 (52:00):
So I I'm not undermining here the MB 800 or
MB A20.
There's benefits still in havingit, even though clients don't
ask for it.
Um the the comparison with likethe PMI, someone can be a
project manager and have been aproject manager, but I have

(52:20):
spoken to a lot of projectmanagers that have winged it
most of their career or in inyeah, in their years as a
project manager.
Whereas there's a lot ofstandards, like there's
structure, there's a certainway, there's methodologies for a
reason.
Someone who's not certified andhave winged it, like maybe they
got lucky like in their in theprevious job.

(52:43):
Like, how do you how do you knowthat it's gonna work here?
When they are certified, youknow, okay, these people know
the basics, they know themethodology.
It's similar with the MB 8 800,like if you know the basics, I I
see value in people having itstill, even though my clients
aren't specifically asking forit.
I think for yourself, if that'sa career path that you're
looking at, I see benefits in instill getting it.

SPEAKER_00 (53:07):
If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 (53:08):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:10):
No, I understand.
I was just curious about that.
It's like you said, it's um younever take away from any of that
the value of any of that.
It's just uh how how importantthat value is to others.
And i there's no one size fitsall with that.
No, it's interesting to see howthis world is changing, how the
implementation world ischanging, and what what partners

(53:33):
are looking for, uh, and thenalso you know, maybe what
customers would be looking foras well for positions to fill.

SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
I just had to add to what I was just saying.
I have a client right now.
Um they're they're they'resmaller, they've they're new in
the in the BC field.
They want to get, I don't knowall the details, but I know they
want to become I think they wantto become a Microsoft partner.
To be a Microsoft partner, youneed people who are certified.

(54:02):
Yes.
So they are asking.
They're not asking they have tohave it.
Their requirement is if theydon't have it, are they open to
getting it?
And will and will pay for it.
So it's it's not because theyask they're asking it for like
we need this as a minimum levelof knowledge, they're asking no,
if they have it, that helps usto become to become a state

(54:25):
functional partners.

SPEAKER_00 (54:27):
So with that, with the staffing of partners, uh
again to become that partner andyou need that certification.
I have heard of that story aswell, or that situation, excuse
me, where will you take itbecause it helps us with our uh
competency skills, I guess youcould call them.
Yeah.
With the change with nowMicrosoft making the

(54:47):
announcement, geez, uh put it uhput it to me with time going so
quickly or feeling that it'sgoing quickly.
Microsoft making theannouncement about a year ago
about Great Plains or GP withthe sunset in 2029, 2030,
whatever it may be at some pointin the future.
Have you noticed a shift inpartners looking for talent?

(55:10):
What I mean by that, are there alot of GP organizations that
used to be primarily GP, nowlooking to um staff up with
business central uh expertise?

SPEAKER_01 (55:22):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (55:23):
Yeah.
Um I have.
I actually have a requirementlike that right now.
It's uh it's a partner thatthey're at the GP shop, but now
they're winning BC work, likealso net BC, like that they're
now also it creates anopportunity for them.
Now they're not just going aftertheir GP customer base, they're

(55:44):
now also looking at companiesthat are complete or customers
that are completely new to theMicrosoft ecosystem.
Um so they're they need BCexperience because not everyone
in GP is is ready, willing,capable of working, uh working
in in Business Central.

SPEAKER_03 (56:05):
Um and yeah, to keep up with the um with uh
conversion, I'll sayconversions.

SPEAKER_04 (56:13):
Um yeah, they need more BC talent.
Because to just chase um reskillall your TP, it's yeah, it's not
fast enough.

SPEAKER_02 (56:23):
Okay, that's a that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 (56:25):
That's where I was going to think about this.
This is uh these are the thingsthat are on my mind because it
and you you're summing it upperfectly with the the
reskilling of the talent thatthey have, because you know, is
the evolution in every naturalevolution of GP to BC?
Is it natural is it a naturalevolution to go from GP to BC or

(56:48):
GP elsewhere?
I think a lot of individuals arestarting to think it is to go
from GP to BC, good, bad, orindifferent, what you're
thinking.
And so then again, that'sanother thing that I've been
thinking about and seeing inconversation is is that
requirement there for reskillingof GP or staffing up to even
help with the reskilling becauseyou can satisfy the migrations

(57:10):
of GP and then also learnthrough osmosis, I guess you can
say your internal staff.
But the reskill program that hasbeen put together by Microsoft
Well is also a great program fortalent to learn either uh
development uh or uh functionalconsulting work.

SPEAKER_04 (57:28):
Yeah, I know I know companies that are using uh that
are making use of that programreally well.
Like they've converted a bigpart of their team to now be uh
BC consultants.

SPEAKER_03 (57:38):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (57:39):
I've talked and I've talked with several
organizations that have gonethrough that program and they've
they have uh said some great hadsome great stories and great
success stories of uh thatprogram to where very few have
not been what they callsuccessful, but that happens
with anything.
I mean you can't the reason whysomeone's successful or
unsuccessful is somethingthere's usually factors in it.

(57:59):
But I think overall, fromeveryone that I've spoken with
firsthand about that, has hadsome favorable experience uh
with the reskilling.
So uh I figured there was anuptake on that.

SPEAKER_04 (58:11):
I think it's wise for GP consultants also to
actively get your hands on someBC experience.

SPEAKER_05 (58:21):
But that also goes to both sides too, because if
you are a GP consultant andyou're looking for a role for a
partner that can you can theycan you're a benefit to them
because you can translateclients from GP to business
central.
So at the same time, they'relearning uh as well.
So there is a need for that.

(58:41):
I know uh I've seen I mean I'veheard a lot of partners that are
hiring GP consultants, they'lltrain them up in business
central because at the same timethey're um uh uh a great asset
uh team uh for the organizationbecause then they can help
translate those uh GP to BC.

SPEAKER_04 (59:00):
Yeah.
But I I think it's unwise ifyou've got a long time to go in
your career still, if you stillhave to work like 10 years or
more, um maybe even five ormore.
I think it's wise to startlooking and get your hands on
some BC experience.
Um I think it's risky to justrely on GP or a GP expert,

(59:21):
because then you're justdependent on what your employer
does, and if they ever want tomake the switch, it's uh it's a
risky place to be.

SPEAKER_05 (59:28):
Yeah, don't be that guy that says if it works, don't
fix it.
And you're a GP.

SPEAKER_04 (59:36):
There's just not that many companies hiring for
GP skills anymore.
They there are the exceptions,but it's not Yeah, it's not that
many.

SPEAKER_00 (59:44):
Yeah, no, this is all definitely general,
generally speaking.
It's I have conversations withpeople and they go, Oh yeah, but
I did this, I saw this one doingthis.
It's it's the volume.
Yeah.
Whereas before, a few years ago,you'd have, again, customers, a
lot more customers.
Looking for migrations fromanother system to Business
Central or Business Centralupgrades.

(01:00:05):
Right?
There are still customerslooking for business central
upgrades, but not as many asthere were two years ago because
a lot of the customers haveupgraded to Business Central
Online and they don't need to gothrough that intense upgrade
process every release.
Same thing with GP.
You may have some organizationslooking to satisfy positions for

(01:00:25):
GP, but generally speaking,they're not looking to fill a GP
position.
They're looking to fill a GP BCposition to help them with their
move to BC if they're looking tofill a vacancy.
Have you in your experience comeacross any that are not and I

(01:00:48):
don't know if in your space uhwith staffing that you come
across these conversations, butI had some conversations with uh
others uh customers at Summit.
Uh thankfully, I'll tell you,this year I I had a lot more it
felt to me there were far morecustomers at Summit than usual.
And I don't mean usual, but theusual in the past there was

(01:01:08):
always a lot of partners andalways a lot of customers.
So I'm not taking away from uhthe conference.
The conference is a greatconference, and I think any
customer should send their staffthere to be able to see more
about the application, how theycan gain some efficiencies.
But one thing I noticed at theconference was there was a
larger, it felt to me there werea lot more customers than usual

(01:01:30):
based on percentages, and also alot more new to Summit, which
means there's a an influx ofeither they had the application
and they didn't send customersor extend their uh staff before,
or they're just new to theapplication and they're new to
it being there.
But I was talking with some andthey were talking about how they
weren't replacing positions.

(01:01:52):
For example, they'd have certainpositions.
We talked about the whole AIspace, and it's not that they're
reducing positions, they're justnot replacing positions.
So if through naturaloccurrences, whether it's
retirement or somebody vacatinga position for another
opportunity, they're not fillinga lot of these positions because

(01:02:14):
they feel within the uhapplication and technology they
can gain some efficiencies.
Do you have any exposure to thatin your in your space?

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:25):
Not much because normally I'm brought in when
they do need to replace.
They don't contact me to say,hey, we we're not gonna replace.
So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:35):
I wonder how I could get that stat.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I wonder if we could do a pollor something somehow.
Because again, I see that's whyI'm saying I didn't know how
your exposure was for just whatyou said.
Like you they're not going tocall you to say, Oh, we're we
don't need somebody, but I justdidn't know if in conversations
you you know, uh secondhandconversations, the third hand
conversations, you heard that aswell.

(01:02:55):
Chris, have you heard anythingabout that?

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:58):
Uh no, not not necessarily.
Uh maybe indirectly, but uh Inever thought about that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:10):
I have like when I when I had the conversation
about a year ago about when umco-pilot was relatively new
still and everyone there were alot of statements, oh copilot's
gonna take over, or um what'sthe ROI of co-pilot?
Can we cut loose part of theworkforce?
And it was a lot like no, it'snot we're not gonna cut it cut

(01:03:32):
anyone loose, we're gonna helppeople, like these are tools.
Um but there were comments beingmade indeed that um indeed
companies wouldn't replace likeif people were to leave they'll
see if they can manage withoutuh without replacing them.
But that was just a year ago,and that that was thinking about
scenarios.

(01:03:52):
I haven't heard about how it'sactually playing out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:55):
I don't think AI today, I think that whole AI
will replace me.
I don't think AI will replacepeople in a sense.
I think people using AI willreplace people, but I think we
also need to be re-skilled tothe way we think, is is what it
is.
So I think individuals willsimilar to how we talk about
reskilling from GP to BC, Ithink anybody will need to, in

(01:04:17):
essence, reskill the way theythink and the way they utilize
AI to be more successful intheir position.
So it's not it's replacing me,it's just making me a little bit
more efficient in myresponsibilities.
I think you're right, Brad.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:32):
I think you you you hit it right there, Brad.
It's it's um you gotta shiftthat mindset.
I I think right now there's alot a little bit of fear, um,
you know, which is rightfullyso, that if if an an AI is
showing you a process that itcan do, and that's something
that you do, maybe 20% of yourtime, it'll save you 20% of

(01:04:54):
time.
And then you can do other thingsthat are much more uh valuable
than some of those tediousthings.
So you you're right, you have toshift that mindset.
And I don't think anyone's doinga good job right now.
I think everyone's saying, like,hey, it will do all this for
you, and then everyone was like,that's what I do, you know, and
what's gonna happen to me?
And and that's that createsfear, especially the unknown.

(01:05:17):
Like what like right now we'reall we don't know where AI is
gonna be six months from now.
Like the the unknown scarespeople, and and I I get it.
It's a it's a scary thing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:29):
I I think you have to be aware, cognizant of what's
going on, but I don't think youneed to panic all the time.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:37):
I think maybe the mindset is like, hey, it will do
that for me.
What else can I do?
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:42):
That that kind of be uh thing you can do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:47):
So what do you guys think is gonna be the biggest
thing for 2026 then?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:53):
Like what the b biggest thing?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:55):
Well, the next what's gonna be a a new hot
topic?
Is it something brand new in AI?

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:01):
Is it something I what's I think it'll be
something brand new in AI?
I don't think I think this AItrain is because AI is so broad.

unknown (01:06:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:11):
Like we you can't say AI AI is is broad.
It's what is AI and in whatarea?
Is it just within businesscentral?
Is it AI with autonomousvehicles, robotics, right?
So I think I think AI will bethe big buzz still.
I think there will be somethingnew with AI on how it's applied

(01:06:35):
within software.
I think something that I talkedabout in previous episodes, I
think software will becomefaceless.
I think we'll start to see thatin 2026, maybe towards the tail
end of 2026, where people arecreating applications that are
on-demand applications where youdon't need the interface defined

(01:06:59):
for you.
You're going to define theinterface for you.
The business logic will exist,the data will exist, but how you
interact with that will be um uhfor lack of better terms, on
demand.
We'll have to play this back.
I want to save this and see atthe end of 2026.
I I see something like thathappening.
Uh again, nobody knows.

(01:07:20):
I I can tell you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:21):
Maybe I'll I'll I also wanted to retweak my
question a little bit.
What do you think will keep youbusy the most in 2026?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:31):
Me busy?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:36):
Okay, while you're thinking about Brad, while you
think about that answer, let meanswer that.
Uh okay, for me, it's gonna bethere's gonna be a lot of
guidance still, I think, from uhyou become more a little bit
more business consultant thanapplication consultant.
And uh Brad and I talked aboutthis on the last episode when we
did a conference recap.
And and one of the things that Ifound that was very profound was

(01:07:58):
the comment that Charles Lamanahad said, um, you know, low code
as we know is dead.
And so that that is a weirdshift in my mind when I thought
about that.
It's like what does that mean?
And it goes back to what Bradwas saying, it becomes
applications, it will almostbecome um faceless or or UI-less
because now it becomes it moreof a con conversational

(01:08:20):
component.
Um you're interacting now with aAI to accomplish a very specific
uh uh you know goal, toaccomplish a very specific goal.
And I think that's where it'sgonna be.
Um, you know, Brad had mentionedabout MCP, where you can have
applications talk to each other.
And yeah, it's less interactionand more conversation, I think,

(01:08:43):
in my it less interaction withapplication, but more
conversation with application.
So I think that's that's goingto continue.
And the next big big thing isthat conversation.
Now I'm curious about the verbalcomponent.
You know, can instead of typing,can I just talk to it from an
enterprise perspective?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:04):
Man, you know what I mean.
Forget what's going to keep mebusy, but while I was thinking
about this towards the end oflast week and even over the
weekend talking about it, I wantto create an AI of something,
meaning I want to spend timewith somebody, record every
single interaction that I havewith them in a transcription

(01:09:25):
point of view, feed it into asystem with AI that can learn in
essence, right, with short-termmemory.
There's ways you can set thatup.
And and then hook it up tosomething like um um 11 labs
where you can have voice andthen maybe something like uh

(01:09:46):
another system that can createanimations to almost create a
person that was trained onconversations and interacting
with somebody for like an entireyear, let's say.
And then would it be like I wastalking with that person?

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:00):
See, we talked about that too, Brad.
So Gurori, this is a thing thatI see, foresee in the future is
that I think the missing piecefor anyone to trust AI is we
always have to put a face onsomething, like robotics, right?
It's not just a robot.
You you you put a face that'sfamiliar, that looks human-like.
So, first I think the next thingwould be voice, right?

(01:10:22):
Now, instead of typing, I canhave a conversation.
The the last piece in that wherewe are gonna be crazy futuristic
is to have a face.
So um they always talked aboutagents as kind of like your
co-worker, they become yourcoworker, which is why it's
called co-pilot, right?
I can just have a conversationnow that there's a face, it
makes it easy for me to trustand say, hey, this person's

(01:10:45):
gonna do exactly what I askedthem to do in a conversational
way.
And I think that at that point Idon't know what to do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:54):
But you're you're uh you you Chris, you're talking
about indeed the the agenthaving having a face so it feels
more familiar.
What unless I misinterpreted, itseemed like Brett was describing
how he can create his own avatarthat will be like him and he can
kick back and relax.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:13):
Yeah, you could do the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:15):
I I don't want it I want it to be not me kicking
back and relaxing.
I want it to be create uh Idon't want to say a companion,
because then people think I'mweird, but you can create some
somebody that you can interactwith that resembles somebody
that you already know.
And it's not to replace them,it's just to see how we get

(01:11:38):
there because now you can useGrok, you can use other tools
where they talk back to you, youcan have a conversation with
them.
But that's going to be more orless based upon that uh model
that they have.
I'm saying, what if I recordedevery interaction that I had
with Rory for a year so that youcould pick up the dialogue, pick
up the responses in certaintypes of situations, feed that

(01:12:00):
into an AI, and then now I couldsit and have a conversation with
Rory as if we were together.
And it still could use it stillcould use today's news, it still
could use today's currentevents, but it's almost like
creating a Rory in perpetuitythat will never change, but it
has your mannerisms, it has yourvocabulary, it has your style,

(01:12:21):
it has the things that make youunique.
That's why you talk about whatwill keep me busy for the next
year.
I'm thinking about where will AIbe within the next year that
could we actually do somethinglike that and have it be
effective and then add that tothis is this is just well, I
think Rory had a good point thatyou know, could you build your

(01:12:42):
own avatar?

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:43):
I I I think that would be another wonderful idea
because then you can feed allthe information because you know
we forget, right?
Humans forget, theycompartmentalize information,
and then maybe you'll rememberit takes a long time to
remember.
So if you were to feed all ofthat about yourself, and then if
I need to ping, I think look, doyou ever talk to yourself
sometimes?
I do, right?
Like I sit down, like uh, youknow, I talk to myself.

(01:13:06):
Um, but instead of me justtalking to myself in my mind, I
can talk to that avatar that Icreated that I fed all my
thoughts and information, and Ican just like, hey, do you
remember?
Did I ever talk to about that?
What was my thought on that?
And they could give it back tome.
It's like, oh now I remember it.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:26):
Yeah, that would be one.
I call people just uh justbecause I need to think out
loud.
Thinking out loud helps me incoming up with solutions, but I
don't want to talk to myself, sothat just I I like to talk to
myself too.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:40):
This is this is a whole other I think we could
have a whole episode talkingabout this um as as we go
forward.
Agents needs to have pace.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:50):
I think that's the takeaway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:54):
What what do you think will be the thing for 2026
as we we wrap this up here?

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:00):
Uh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:03):
I don't want to just say AI, that's too too generic.
I'll make it a bit more specificto my field.
I think what we said at thestart of the call, where a lot
of companies were not puttingpen to paper for new projects.
BC has so many reasons to bevery, very busy why there should
be a lot of projects.

(01:14:25):
I I think it's gonna comethrough in 2026.
Like you got your nav peoplestill to go to BC, you got your
GP people now starting to movebecause there's a lot more
movement this year with the GPpeople than there was last year.
So I'd like to I think that'sgonna continue to 2026.
And then you've got all the netnew clients, the people that are
not happy with Net Suite or thethat need to go for QuickBooks.

(01:14:48):
There's just so many reasons whypeople, why BC should be really,
really busy.
And I think 2026 is gonna be theyear.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:56):
So so you have you see a big uptick in business
central implementations for2026.
Yeah, business central projects.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:04):
Yes.
Okay.
All right.
Well, let's let's let's kind ofput a uh a bookmark on this.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:09):
That's a positive one.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:10):
Well, I'm sure we'll we'll we'll talk we'll talk
throughout the year, uh,definitely.
Uh and also uh that's what doyou call that?
That stropha strudel?

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:19):
Strobust.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:22):
I can't uh I have to keep talking because I want more
of those.
That um that was a pleasanttreat.
And uh, you know, I look forwardto seeing you.
Are you going directions NorthAmerica?

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:34):
Uh I th I think so, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:36):
In Orlando again.
Same same city, differentlocation.
But if you do, please bringsome.
I will I will uh search for you.
Uh and you're not usually toodifficult to spot.
With the orange shirt.
Yeah, I was going to say youstand out.
Uh I I almost look at theMcLaren, the McLaren orange, and
I I can spot that far away.
Uh but please bring some ofthose.

(01:15:57):
I want to thank you for those,those are great.
Uh we'll we'll see where we arein April uh with our predictions
if any of this comes forward.
Uh but before we wrap up, uh,can you if anyone would like to
learn more about um staffing,recruiting, or if they have any
opportunities that they'relooking for, or any
opportunities to fill within thebusiness central space, uh,

(01:16:18):
what's the best way to get incontact with you?

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:20):
Um email uh email address Rory at thegoodalent.co,
not dot com.
Someone took that already andnow they're trying to sell it to
me for a couple thousand bucks.
Uh so dot co.
Um and uh the fun fact, the goodtalent is not to post, but the
good is my translation of mysurname.

(01:16:41):
So my surname's actually Rorythe Good.
So the good talent.
I love it.co.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:46):
Excellent, excellent.
Uh well, thank you.
And we'll have a link to yourprofile within the show notes as
well.
So if anyone um had a difficultywith that, they'll be able to
see it.
Perfect.
Uh thank you again for takingthe time to speak with us.
We appreciate it and lookforward to keeping in contact
with you through the year, andthen this time next year, we'll
have a follow-up to see if ourpredictions came true.

(01:17:09):
Talk with you soon.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you, Chris, for your timefor another episode of In the
Dynamics Corner Chair.
And thank you to our guests forparticipating.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:20):
Thank you, Brad, for your time.
It is a wonderful episode ofDynamics Corner Chair.
I would also like to thank ourguests for join joining us.
Thank you for all of ourlisteners tuning in as well.
You can find Brad atdeveloperlife.com.
That is D V L P R L I F E dotcom.

(01:17:41):
And you can interact with themvia Twitter, D V L P R L I F E.
You can also find me atmattalino.io, m-a-t-a-l-in-o.io,
and my Twitter handle isMattalino16.
And see you can see those linksdown below in the show notes.

(01:18:03):
Again, thank you everyone.
Thank you, and take care.