November 14, 2025 • 32 mins
In this in episode of Early Childhood On The Go, we sit down with Paul Castle, a Canadian-born artist, author, and social media creator who’s redefining representation in children’s literature and online storytelling. Living with Retinitis Pigmentosa, a condition that causes gradual vision loss, Paul brings a powerful perspective on creativity, inclusion, and resilience.
Through his vibrant picture books, The Pengrooms, Pringle & Finn, Mr. Maple: A Guide Dog's Story, The Blind Robot and How to Raise a Dragon. Paul shares joyful, affirming stories that celebrate love, family, and identity. He also opens up about his journey as a legally blind artist, his partnership with his husband Matthew, and how their real-life story inspired his beloved penguin characters.
Join us as Paul talks about the importance of incidental visibility in early childhood stories and how he uses humor, art, and authenticity to connect with children and families.
Find out more about Paul and his storytelling at Paul Castle Studios.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the EarlyChildhood On-The-Go podcast.
We explore bigideas and practical
ways to supportevery child's growth,
curiosity, andsense of belonging.
I'm Kayla O'Neill fromthe Early Childhood
Center at theIndiana Institute on
Disability and Community,and today we're talking
about the powerof imagination and
inclusion and how storieshelp children to see
(00:20):
the beauty in everykind of difference.
Our guest, PaulCastle, is an author,
illustrator, andan advocate whose
joyful creativework celebrates the
many ways peopleexperience the world.
Paul brings his livedexperience as a person
with a disability intohis storytelling,
offering perspectivesthat expand our understanding of
creativity, community, andpossibility. His books
(00:40):
remind us that disabilityis a natural part of
human diversity andthat every child with
the proper support andexpectations can thrive
and contribute intheir own way. Paul,
thank you so much forjoining us today. To
start, can you justshare a little bit
about your journey as anauthor and illustrator
and kind of whatfirst drew you to
storytelling for children?
(01:03):
Absolutely. Thank youso much for having me
on the podcast, Kayla.
It's so wonderful tomeet you. You too. I'm
excited to be here.
You know, somethingthat you said in the
opening so resonatedwith me. It just hit me
right in the feels. Itwas that that creating
a sense of belongingfor kids, you know,
that's really what firstinspired me on this
(01:26):
journey because there'snothing more important
in the world I thinkthan that sense of
belonging, that you belong,that is what inclusivity
really is about. Sure.
And so I've beentelling stories my
whole life since I wasvery very young when I
was six years old I mademy first children's
book all on my own. Ihave a funny story. I
(01:48):
have a seven-year-oldand a 10-year-old.
So I'm like, I got tohear this because my kids
will make like littlecomic books. So I just
would love to hearthat little story.
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's so cool. I justlike, you know, it's
such a creative time inlife when we're, when
we're young and we're,we just, you know,
kids love art.
And as adults, somany of us just, just step away
(02:12):
from it, right?
We grow out of it.
But when I was six, I stole abook off my brother's bookshelf.
One, I didn't think he read it.
It was called GI Joe's in Space.
And I ripped out allthe pages. I gutted
it. And I taped in my own pagesbecause I needed a
book that had a nicehard cover, had to
(02:33):
have a hard cover.
My brother forgave me. He waslike, oh yeah, that. And I wrote
a story called The Sad Turtle.
I found this bookyears later and it's a
treasured item of mineit sits on my bookshelf
and i was like thesad turtle, what is
this, this is so, youknow, i mean it's sad.
(02:55):
He starts off, he'slonely he has no friends,
he's all alone buthe discovers friends
throughout thestory. I made this
of my own volition ona weekend and my
parents discoveredit and kept it in a
treasure box for manyyears afterwards.
And it's so interestingto me because even
revisiting that andseeing that, first of
(03:15):
all, I had the desireto write and share
stories as a kid, butI'm sort of connecting
this with what youjust said, because it
was like, well, I felta lack of belonging
in my childhoodbecause I was a kid who
struggled to makefriends, very introverted,
very shy. I was dealingwith an undiagnosed
disability, myblindness, which was
(03:37):
causing a lot of issuesthat you know would
would take years tocome to light and as
a young kid at that age,I was grappling with
the early earlyfeelings and of of being
different, that wouldlater I would later
recognize as beingLGBTQ, as a gay person,
(03:58):
I had those inclinationsthose those those
understanding of mydifference as young as
seven and it tookyears of course for the
vocabulary to reach meand to understand all
of that but um it'sinteresting how this
is all overlappingand coinciding so I'm
dealing with my ownsense of belonging in the
(04:18):
world and I have thesedifferences but I
don't know how toidentify them yet and I'm
also passionate aboutart and telling stories.
And I just took thisinto my teens and,
uh, continue to drawand paint and tell
stories. And I realizedlike, I'm, this is
just what I'm drawn tosharing stories because
(04:39):
I believe they canhave an extraordinary
impact on people.
Because it was having anextraordinary impact
on me when I would readand watch movies or
any sort of form ofstorytelling could be
so inspiring for meand I thought, I want
to be the person whocreates those things
that inspire others, youknow? Wow. That's
(05:00):
how it all started.
That's incredible andI think like obviously
you know I work inearly childhood and like
we put so much emphasison early literacy
because of you know allof the more academic
skills right and we'relike, you know, have
them draw picturesand all stuff to help
(05:20):
with pre-writing butthen you hear your
story and that thatemotional awareness and
And what that probablydid for you as a child
emotionally, it justgives us, you know,
what a great outletfor children, not only for those
academic skills, but man, forprocessing things that
they don't yet havethe words to say.
Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
(05:41):
So when you think aboutinclusion, what does
that look like inyour creative process?
us uh well okay so wefast forward to the
point where I'm sortof making a decision to
make, attempt, I shouldsay, a career as an
author because foryears from college on
(06:03):
I was it was a traditionalpainter at first
okay and I did a lot oflarge-scale paintings
and custom commissionsthings and I was
really into paintingas storytelling as a
form of an opportunityand outlet for
storytelling but I alsoneeded to make a living
you know I needed so Iwas putting my paintings
up in restaurantsand coffee shops and
(06:26):
I managed to get intoa few galleries it
was really exciting butI eventually lost the
ability to do thatdue to my my eyesight
slowly degeneratingbecause I was diagnosed
at the age of 16 witha rare disease called
retinitis pigmentosa.
So that was like wellhow is this going to
affect my life as acreative person as
somebody who's very visualnow I'm going blind
(06:48):
permanently no cure notreatment and I uh so I
but I was able to paintin my own way and adapt
and adapt and whenI finally was had to
give up the traditionalpainting I discovered
digital art or aspeople in my industry
call it tradigital becauseit's sort of like
still feels verytraditional because it's
(07:08):
like a pencil on a surfaceokay so we call it
tradigital that's newfor me but what it
allowed me to do is accessa lot of accessibility
tools and so I waslike okay this is
exciting I started doinga lot of illustrations
this way and thenselling them online and
(07:30):
then eventually I waslike had all these
characters and ideas andit was actually my
husband who was like Paulyou got to turn this
into a book we got tomake a book. And so I
said okay well what'sit going to be about
and this was in 2019 andokay. Oh wow! Yeah we
had just gotten marriedright before the
pandemic. Oh man at leastyou got in before the
(07:51):
pandemic, right? It wasDecember yeah. Wow! And
I had I had illustrateduh our wedding
invitations he wanted he'slike draw something
cute for our weddinginvitations and I chose
penguins because they'relike formally dressed
you know they're inlittle rainbow bow
ties on them and calledthem the pengrooms
like a combination ofpenguins and I just
(08:14):
thought it was cute yeahwell it became a very
popular illustration withour fan base because
we had this littlegrowing social media
fan base and followersthat we were like you
know sharing our liveswith and so when the
pandemic hit and Matthewsaid it's time to
create a story I saidwhat should it be about
he's like well obviouslyit's got to be about
the penguins and Iwas like you know what
(08:35):
that is a really goodidea I think there
should there needs to bethis kind of representation
in children'sliterature but it was
very important to meKayla that the book
not be a quote-unquotemessage book too heavy
-handed a message becausei was writing the book
for my six-year-oldself yeah because i
(08:56):
don't have kids and iwas writing it for him
and i was like what didlittle paul enjoy
okay sure sneak in amessage but i'm going
to return to books againand again that are
entertaining and fun and haveexciting illustrations
and humor, you know?
(09:18):
And I said, I needto write a story
that has representationas an incidental
piece of the story,meaning you could
remove it and thestory still exists.
So it's reallyjust an incidental
part of it. And whydoes that matter?
Why is that important?
Because we oftenget representation in
this big, like heavyhanded, this is what
(09:41):
the story is about,educational sort of way
kids aren't necessarilydrawn to that kind
of material if it'sjust part of the story
well that representslife right right
representation is just partof life it's just there
it's not the centralplot point it's just
there and and I actuallythink it's even more
(10:02):
powerful to tell thosetypes of stories where
the representationisn't the focal point
it just exists thatmakes it so much more
normal so much more likeacceptable and so that's
what set out to doand that's what the
first book really didwow yeah that's it's
so powerful and such agreat perspective
perspective about that thatthe story stands but
(10:25):
that piece is there andit only enhances it
and yeah I love justhearing that whole story
of how that all cameto be that is it's it's
cool so cool to hearthat you were writing
books at six yearsold and here you are
as an adult and you'redoing it and you're
writing books for yourselfstill that's amazing
and I think how manykids are helped by that
(10:46):
I mean you know thethe best part of this
whole journey is thefeedback you know getting
emails every day withphotos of like parents
with their kidsreading the stories we
have plushies too so kidsclutching onto their
little prinkle and finplushies and you know
it's just I mean Iget emotional every
(11:08):
day when I we get thesemessages because it's
like wow I didn't expectit to feel so healing
for my own inner childto see this happening
and to know that I'mable to share something
with people that isactually having a
positive impact. And youkind of like fell right
into my next question.
So you're talking aboutyou know what kinds
(11:28):
of reactions have youreceived from children
families teachersanything that's jumping
out to you or that youwant to share about
because there's everythingyou know there's so
many just wonderfulwonderful I mean the
feedback has just beenphenomenal and um you
know kind of tying intowhat I said the thing
that I am so heartenedby is when parents
(11:51):
tell me like their kidsrequest it night after
night after night andI'm like they want
to go back to the storybecause you know not
because it's like ohit's the story that has
the two dads and thetwo moms it's it's the
story with the funpenguin the misadventures
and you know all thelittle things that they
do yet they aregetting to experience
(12:11):
stories with inclusivityat the same time and so
that's just incredibleand there is a there's
several teachers allover the United States
who tell me they readthis and they've uh
to their their classroomand have even worked
it into the syllabusand like it's a
teachable thing but likethe kids really respond
to it love it laughalong with it I have a
teacher there's a pre-k teacher in Vermont oh
(12:34):
my gosh she's turnedit into a whole thing.
She got she has theplushies, the Pringle
plushie, and she hidesit in her room every
day and the first thingsthat the kids have
to do is find where ohmy goodness hiding so
apparently it's becomesuch a popular part
of her classroom yearafter year now that if
a kid doesn't want to goto school for whatever
(12:55):
reason a parentwill say well if you
don't go you won't findpringle and they'll go
that gets them outthe door. They need fun
and i i love you knowthe fact that you can
you have the plushiesyou can you know tying
that play into earlyliteracy and I mean that's
just so that teacheris brilliant though
because that's it's sobrilliant I don't want
(13:17):
to miss out she's justcreating this FOMO
for this kid yeah shoutout to Miss Zachary
Miss Zachary ShannonZachary out in Vermont
and she even sent methis packet once last
year her students alldrew pictures of pringle
in their favoritehiding spot oh my gosh
wow art yeah yeah i lovethat that is so cool
(13:43):
um just all togethershe's just she's really
thought of it allbringing the art back i
know it's cool andthese kids are going to
be writing their ownbooks they're going to
be so i hope so ihope so yeah i want to
inspire them to writetheir own books and
stories too that's whereit all starts you know
that that spark startsso young how do you
(14:03):
hope that your storiesreally influence the
way children viewdisability and diversity
yeah well again Ireally feel like because
it's integrated intothe stories I want kids
to grow up realizingthis is a normal
everyday part of lifediversity is around us and
(14:26):
we love accept showgrace show empathy and
when you're surroundedby it and you're
shown it and you seethat oh this is just part
of life I think itreally opens the heart
it makes it easier toaccept diversity and
embrace diversity andthen the third thing, celebrate
(14:48):
diversity. Yeah, yeah, yeah,that's amazing.
You know, you'veshared kind of openly
about how livingwith your disability
has shaped your perspective as awriter, as an artist.
How has that experienceinfluenced your
creative process?
Oh, in a huge way,because I've had
(15:09):
to adapt to visionloss over time,
and as an artist,losing their vision.
I mean, that isquite a quandary.
There are many incredibleblind artists all
around the world doingincredible things.
Now, part of my educationis informing people
something that quitea few of us don't
(15:30):
know, even me. I didn'tknow this. I thought
blind meant no vision.
I grew up thinkingbecause that's what
television and movies tellus. But 93% of the
blind community hasfunctional vision so
that varies extremely ofcourse that can mean
maybe you only seelight light you know a
bit of a bright lightbut some people like
me have extreme tunnelvision so it's sort of
(15:52):
like looking througha straw okay and I
have no other vision noperipheral vision at
all and and then somepeople have the opposite
they have no centralvision but they
only have peripheralvision but these this is
all forms of blindnessand so educating people
about blindness issuper important. Now,
having said that,people use what vision
they do or don't haveto accomplish many
(16:15):
creative things, includingart. And I'm very,
very fortunate thatI've been able to find
ways to adapt to myvision loss and create
art along the way. Andlike I said, I had to
go from traditionalto tradigital. There's
our word of the day.
And I've been soincredibly grateful to
(16:38):
do that. So, youknow, I need very
specific conditionsto get the work done,
but I'm passionateabout it. I love it.
I will keep doingit. And, but it is
because I have aprogressive disease, I
have to kind of keepadapting as I go.
So my process haskind of slowed down
a bit, but that'sokay. I don't mind.
I get to do this fulltime now. So that's
(17:01):
amazing yeah that'swhat's been incredible so
now I get to do itfull-time the content
creation and stuff takesa lot of time too but
like, I really spendmost of my days working
on my books and Icouldn't be happier about
that. That's amazing andyeah, just always having
to find ways to adaptand that must be a
journey on its own. Itreally is it really is
(17:22):
and there's this reallyinteresting conversation
having coming upright now about people
with disabilities andthe use of AI. I've
seen a lot of peopleonline talking about well
AI is the only waythat a disabled person
can create art and I'mhere to say that isn't
true, you know I knowso many incredibly
(17:43):
talented disabled artistsand I know that there
are, I believe and Icome from the school of,
our obstacles often createamazing opportunities,
rather than seeingthe obstacles in
your life whether it'slike a chronic disease
or some other issuewe see those often as
(18:06):
closed doors but I thinkwe live in a time where
they can often becomegreater opportunities
it's really about ashift in perspective.
And so by sharing yourown personal stories
and getting connectedwith other people who
are dealing withsimilar things, I think
you'll find an incrediblecommunity of strength
(18:27):
that you wouldn't havehad. Well, yeah, it
provides an opportunityfor connection and
community. And yeah. Andwhat's more important
than that? I mean,really. Exactly. That's
what we all need.
That's what we all need.
In early childhoodeducation, we talk a
lot about havinghigh expectations for
all children and thebelief that every
child can learn, cangrow, can contribute.
(18:49):
What does thatphrase mean to you?
Oh, it means a lotto me because I
just, I'm the typeof person that
does not underestimatekids at all, at all. And I
would never want totalk down to them.
And I find that with alot of like children's
entertainment, sometimesI get very annoyed in
books and televisionand movies where it's
(19:10):
sort of like I hateto use this phrase
dumbed down but it's sortof like it's speaking
to kids in a way thatdoesn't respect how
advanced kids canreally truly be yeah
and that sometimes kidsdon't have to in fact
it's good when they don'tunderstand everything
right pepper no wordor two that is beyond
their reading levelbecause that's going
(19:32):
to teach them to growlearn ask questions
about it right and kidsare very good at filling
in the gaps anywayso i am like in my my
approach to writingand and creativity is
you know make a fewthings a little mysterious
a little out of reacha little bit of like
okay i'm gonna takeit's gonna take a
little extra time tounderstand this but my my
(19:54):
my um when i do readingsand I'm always blown
away by how how smartand inquisitive and
intuitive kids are andI think that a lot
of people forget thatwhen they're creating
for kids yeah no I thinkyou know and you're
making me think of somy kids recently I
don't know how we gotinto this but we started
(20:15):
watching like we'restarting from the beginning
of Mr. Rogers likewe're going back to
the beginning but heyou know watching the
way like he talks youknow he's not dumbing
stuff down. He is, hetalks about emotions
and things in ways thatare so real. And like
my kids will pick upon stuff if it's too
cheesy, but he is likeso subtle about it.
(20:36):
So sorry. I'm kind ofRoger's kick, but
I think it relatesto what you're saying
about, you know,talking to kids about
these things that arepart of real life. And
that's how he does.
He just puts it outthere and he really,
you know, so yeah, wejust watched like the
very first episode theother night and I was
like oh my gosh likeI don't know it's fun
I love it I'm likeI'm sitting here like
(20:57):
oh my god I need a Mr.
Rogers re-watch rightnow like seriously I
wish it would be likea thing because I
and I didn't think mykids like I I don't know
what made me like weshould watch this
and like they're likeliterally so interested
in there I thoughtthey'd be a little too
old for it but the waythat he talks about
things and there's justa little bit of
realness but yet there'ssome playfulness of
(21:17):
imagination. And I think,you know, that brings
kids in and keepsthose expectations
for them to learn. AndI don't know. Yeah.
If you have some time,just go back, start at
the beginning. Yeah.
That's so cool. That'sso cool. And it's,
it's telling that wekind of have to look
back that far to findthat because I don't
(21:37):
think it's harderto find now. I can't
think of something asI'm, like I said, going
down this Mr. Rogerspath. Like I can't
think of somethingthat's as similar as
that and I mean Iwatched him growing up so
I mean it's been aminute but man it could
bring that back Iknow I know I know I
worry sometimes I knowbut you know we'll
(22:02):
do it we'll get thatwe'll go circle we'll
get back to that Ithink so how can stories
like yours helpteachers and families
challenge thosestereotypes and really
nurture children'sconfidence especially those
with disabilitiestrue yeah I think hmm
(22:27):
you know again growingup growing up I think
we all have a momentat least a moment
growing up where we feellike we don't fit in
oh my goodness everybodyeverybody forget it
like we can all relateyeah you don't have
(22:48):
to have a disabilityto know what it feels
like to feel like youdon't belong or you
don't fit in. It's auniversal experience.
And I think that's thedistinction I want to
make. It's not so muchlike, oh, the disabled
kid or the queer kidor, you know, the
adopted kid is the onlyone who's feeling a
(23:10):
little different andneeds that attention. We
all need it. And maybethat is what's most
important because whenevery student in the
classroom or every kidin the family or all
the peer group friendsunderstand that they
are having the sameuniversal experience
it's just being expresseda little differently
then you realizethere's no outsiders
(23:30):
anymore and that's whyi that's the message i
think is most importantyeah i love that
because you're exactlyright you know whether
everybody needs thatsense of belonging and
everybody feels thatsometimes so you know
bringing that togetherthat belonging identity
yeah yeah all underthat same umbrella
(23:51):
together and I think byemphasizing that it's
the realization thatevery kid has that
like oh okay you're youknow you have this I
have I have this goingon but we're really
the same and that reallyexercises that muscle
of empathy I thinkwhen you know some kids
are more inclined tobe empathetic I mean,
right off the bat,some have to really
(24:11):
learn it throughexperiences. But I think when
you learn empathy at ayoung age, it's going
to set you up for therest of your life.
Oh, gosh, yeah. Iwish, you know, it's so
important. Like yousaid, some kids, it is
going to take a littlebit more to learn that.
And some kids, maybeit does feel, but
having that time, andI think using books,
(24:34):
early literacy, writing,drawing, all that can
help with that empathy.
and I think you'reright that's one of
the things that you canget that if you can
understand that yeahyeah that's great and
you made a really goodpoint it's not just
about being read to it'salso the creative
process getting to playthe play part the
creative exercising yourown imagination and
(24:54):
reinterpreting thingsand then getting feedback
through that processthat's huge and that's
so important andthat's why I love hearing
that your kids aredoing these comics and
stuff that's so awesomeI love yeah it's it's
fun to see you knowand and and my kids
are so differentbecause I've got one
(25:15):
that you know she coulddraw and she just loves
and my other one notas much but every now
and then he'll get intoit and every kid's
so different but I'mglad they're doing it
and it's fun to see whatthey come up with you
know oh I bet I betfor teachers for families
what you know whoreally want to bring
(25:36):
more inclusive practicesinto their classrooms
or homes you knowpeople like me what
advice would you shareyou know I would I
would really encouragefinding stories that have
subtle representationso that not every
(25:59):
every time a kid isintroduced to representation
because kids aresmart as we've discussed
they're like oh it'sanother message but
got it and they're onlylearning about
inclusivity diversity whenit's one of these books
you know what I meanand they sort of
compartmentalize it likeoh it's that and if you
(26:20):
seek out the storiesthat are more incidental
like i've beenemphasizing it's not
so much like oh it's ohit's just there oh it's
like a subtle hmm okayand i think that is
going to have a biggerlonger lasting impact
because it's not againit's not separating
it from the the groupagain it's about this
(26:42):
feeling of when youare growing up and
feeling different and youhave a disability or
various other thingsyou always feel like
you're being singled outor separated same
thing with the booksbecause eventually it's
just going to emphasizethis feeling of
separation and difference.
So integrative sort of subtlemessaging, I think
just makes it feel somuch more casual
(27:05):
and part of life.
Yeah, exactly.
How can educators use your booksas starting points
for conversationsabout belonging and identity?
Oh, yeah. I mean, Iget so many teachers
reaching out, tellingme how they've
used the books in thatway um as as a and
(27:28):
a lot of parents whoreach out with emails
saying this was theperfect way to open
discussions aboutyou know uh uncle you
know bill and tomlike they have in the
family like theyhave two you know uh
gay parents or somethinglike that or um
(27:49):
representation ofblind characters
like let's have aconversation around
disability and andthey will often tell
me that it startswhen the the kid
has a question kidsare curious right
endlessly curiousvery much so and so I
think it's just afun starting off like
(28:10):
a springboard youknow to have a fun
story and then allowa conversation to
develop love it umbefore before we wrap
up, what's next foryou? Do you have any
upcoming projects orthings that you're
excited about inthe, in the future?
Yes, very excited. I havea lot of things going
on. I, well, firstof all, I'm currently
(28:31):
writing my firstmiddle grade novel.
Ooh, okay. I want tohear about this. Yeah.
Well, I can't, Ican't tease too much,
but I will say that thereis a, the protagonist
is low vision. SoI'm really tackling
disability but likein a nuanced way where
it's not like it'sjust a blind character
this this character hasa disability and it's
(28:54):
an exciting adventurestory with you know
it's going to be goodit's going to be really
like a fun story withsome incidental some
messaging in there aboutdisability specifically
and then I havetwo new children's
picture books comingout next year one i'm so
excited about it takeson uh internet bullying
(29:15):
because i really feellike there aren't
enough books thatprepare kids for what is
coming they may be tooyoung to have their
phones but they see momand dad on their phones
they understand whatsocial media is and
i think it's so importantto be prepared for
what that could looklike so i'm working
on a book called um it'scalled ned the internet
(29:36):
troll oh it is aboutreal trolls that
live beneath the internetand they have a job
to be mean and nastyexcept ned he doesn't
quite fit in becausehe's a little too nice
and this is a whimsicalstory that really
explores how to approachthat kind of bullying
(29:57):
cyberbullying specificallyum which i think
is super importantto have some early um
preparation for thatyou know what i mean
so um that's somethingthat i and me as
somebody who's verypresent online i've
been the recipient ofa lot of it and i've
seen a lot of ithappen so i think it's
a really importanttopic and then my second
(30:20):
book is the blindrobot it's um i've
been doing a webcomic for the last few
years called the blindrobot and i have a
fully illustratedchildren's book that has
the characters in itgoes on a fun journey
again it's just moreso about this like community and
connection lots of humorand adventure a bit
of an adventure storybut of course there's
(30:41):
a lot of importantmessaging in there
too so uh that'll becoming out probably
by next Christmas.
That is so exciting.
Thank you somuch for coming here
today and sharingall this with us.
And I am so excitedto see your new books come out.
What a powerful reminderthat when children
see themselvesreflected in stories of
(31:01):
strength and joy,they learn that their
experiences matterand that they belong.
You can learn moreabout Paul's work and
find links to his booksin the episode notes.
I'm Kayla O'Neill, andthis has been Early
Childhood on the Go.
Thank you for joiningus. And remember that
every child bringssomething remarkable to
the story of learning.
Welcome to the EarlyChildhood On-The-Go podcast.
We explore bigideas and practical
ways to supportevery child's growth,
curiosity, andsense of belonging.
I'm Kayla O'Neill fromthe Early Childhood
Center at theIndiana Institute on
Disability and Community,and today we're talking
about the powerof imagination and
inclusion and how storieshelp children to see
(00:20):
the beauty in everykind of difference.
Our guest, PaulCastle, is an author,
illustrator, andan advocate whose
joyful creativework celebrates the
many ways peopleexperience the world.
Paul brings his livedexperience as a person
with a disability intohis storytelling,
offering perspectivesthat expand our understanding of
creativity, community, andpossibility. His books
(00:40):
remind us that disabilityis a natural part of
human diversity andthat every child with
the proper support andexpectations can thrive
and contribute intheir own way. Paul,
thank you so much forjoining us today. To
start, can you justshare a little bit
about your journey as anauthor and illustrator
and kind of whatfirst drew you to
storytelling for children?
(01:03):
Absolutely. Thank youso much for having me
on the podcast, Kayla.
It's so wonderful tomeet you. You too. I'm
excited to be here.
You know, somethingthat you said in the
opening so resonatedwith me. It just hit me
right in the feels. Itwas that that creating
a sense of belongingfor kids, you know,
that's really what firstinspired me on this
(01:26):
journey because there'snothing more important
in the world I thinkthan that sense of
belonging, that you belong,that is what inclusivity
really is about. Sure.
And so I've beentelling stories my
whole life since I wasvery very young when I
was six years old I mademy first children's
book all on my own. Ihave a funny story. I
(01:48):
have a seven-year-oldand a 10-year-old.
So I'm like, I got tohear this because my kids
will make like littlecomic books. So I just
would love to hearthat little story.
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's so cool. I justlike, you know, it's
such a creative time inlife when we're, when
we're young and we're,we just, you know,
kids love art.
And as adults, somany of us just, just step away
(02:12):
from it, right?
We grow out of it.
But when I was six, I stole abook off my brother's bookshelf.
One, I didn't think he read it.
It was called GI Joe's in Space.
And I ripped out allthe pages. I gutted
it. And I taped in my own pagesbecause I needed a
book that had a nicehard cover, had to
(02:33):
have a hard cover.
My brother forgave me. He waslike, oh yeah, that. And I wrote
a story called The Sad Turtle.
I found this bookyears later and it's a
treasured item of mineit sits on my bookshelf
and i was like thesad turtle, what is
this, this is so, youknow, i mean it's sad.
(02:55):
He starts off, he'slonely he has no friends,
he's all alone buthe discovers friends
throughout thestory. I made this
of my own volition ona weekend and my
parents discoveredit and kept it in a
treasure box for manyyears afterwards.
And it's so interestingto me because even
revisiting that andseeing that, first of
(03:15):
all, I had the desireto write and share
stories as a kid, butI'm sort of connecting
this with what youjust said, because it
was like, well, I felta lack of belonging
in my childhoodbecause I was a kid who
struggled to makefriends, very introverted,
very shy. I was dealingwith an undiagnosed
disability, myblindness, which was
(03:37):
causing a lot of issuesthat you know would
would take years tocome to light and as
a young kid at that age,I was grappling with
the early earlyfeelings and of of being
different, that wouldlater I would later
recognize as beingLGBTQ, as a gay person,
(03:58):
I had those inclinationsthose those those
understanding of mydifference as young as
seven and it tookyears of course for the
vocabulary to reach meand to understand all
of that but um it'sinteresting how this
is all overlappingand coinciding so I'm
dealing with my ownsense of belonging in the
(04:18):
world and I have thesedifferences but I
don't know how toidentify them yet and I'm
also passionate aboutart and telling stories.
And I just took thisinto my teens and,
uh, continue to drawand paint and tell
stories. And I realizedlike, I'm, this is
just what I'm drawn tosharing stories because
(04:39):
I believe they canhave an extraordinary
impact on people.
Because it was having anextraordinary impact
on me when I would readand watch movies or
any sort of form ofstorytelling could be
so inspiring for meand I thought, I want
to be the person whocreates those things
that inspire others, youknow? Wow. That's
(05:00):
how it all started.
That's incredible andI think like obviously
you know I work inearly childhood and like
we put so much emphasison early literacy
because of you know allof the more academic
skills right and we'relike, you know, have
them draw picturesand all stuff to help
(05:20):
with pre-writing butthen you hear your
story and that thatemotional awareness and
And what that probablydid for you as a child
emotionally, it justgives us, you know,
what a great outletfor children, not only for those
academic skills, but man, forprocessing things that
they don't yet havethe words to say.
Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
(05:41):
So when you think aboutinclusion, what does
that look like inyour creative process?
us uh well okay so wefast forward to the
point where I'm sortof making a decision to
make, attempt, I shouldsay, a career as an
author because foryears from college on
(06:03):
I was it was a traditionalpainter at first
okay and I did a lot oflarge-scale paintings
and custom commissionsthings and I was
really into paintingas storytelling as a
form of an opportunityand outlet for
storytelling but I alsoneeded to make a living
you know I needed so Iwas putting my paintings
up in restaurantsand coffee shops and
(06:26):
I managed to get intoa few galleries it
was really exciting butI eventually lost the
ability to do thatdue to my my eyesight
slowly degeneratingbecause I was diagnosed
at the age of 16 witha rare disease called
retinitis pigmentosa.
So that was like wellhow is this going to
affect my life as acreative person as
somebody who's very visualnow I'm going blind
(06:48):
permanently no cure notreatment and I uh so I
but I was able to paintin my own way and adapt
and adapt and whenI finally was had to
give up the traditionalpainting I discovered
digital art or aspeople in my industry
call it tradigital becauseit's sort of like
still feels verytraditional because it's
(07:08):
like a pencil on a surfaceokay so we call it
tradigital that's newfor me but what it
allowed me to do is accessa lot of accessibility
tools and so I waslike okay this is
exciting I started doinga lot of illustrations
this way and thenselling them online and
(07:30):
then eventually I waslike had all these
characters and ideas andit was actually my
husband who was like Paulyou got to turn this
into a book we got tomake a book. And so I
said okay well what'sit going to be about
and this was in 2019 andokay. Oh wow! Yeah we
had just gotten marriedright before the
pandemic. Oh man at leastyou got in before the
(07:51):
pandemic, right? It wasDecember yeah. Wow! And
I had I had illustrateduh our wedding
invitations he wanted he'slike draw something
cute for our weddinginvitations and I chose
penguins because they'relike formally dressed
you know they're inlittle rainbow bow
ties on them and calledthem the pengrooms
like a combination ofpenguins and I just
(08:14):
thought it was cute yeahwell it became a very
popular illustration withour fan base because
we had this littlegrowing social media
fan base and followersthat we were like you
know sharing our liveswith and so when the
pandemic hit and Matthewsaid it's time to
create a story I saidwhat should it be about
he's like well obviouslyit's got to be about
the penguins and Iwas like you know what
(08:35):
that is a really goodidea I think there
should there needs to bethis kind of representation
in children'sliterature but it was
very important to meKayla that the book
not be a quote-unquotemessage book too heavy
-handed a message becausei was writing the book
for my six-year-oldself yeah because i
(08:56):
don't have kids and iwas writing it for him
and i was like what didlittle paul enjoy
okay sure sneak in amessage but i'm going
to return to books againand again that are
entertaining and fun and haveexciting illustrations
and humor, you know?
(09:18):
And I said, I needto write a story
that has representationas an incidental
piece of the story,meaning you could
remove it and thestory still exists.
So it's reallyjust an incidental
part of it. And whydoes that matter?
Why is that important?
Because we oftenget representation in
this big, like heavyhanded, this is what
(09:41):
the story is about,educational sort of way
kids aren't necessarilydrawn to that kind
of material if it'sjust part of the story
well that representslife right right
representation is just partof life it's just there
it's not the centralplot point it's just
there and and I actuallythink it's even more
(10:02):
powerful to tell thosetypes of stories where
the representationisn't the focal point
it just exists thatmakes it so much more
normal so much more likeacceptable and so that's
what set out to doand that's what the
first book really didwow yeah that's it's
so powerful and such agreat perspective
perspective about that thatthe story stands but
(10:25):
that piece is there andit only enhances it
and yeah I love justhearing that whole story
of how that all cameto be that is it's it's
cool so cool to hearthat you were writing
books at six yearsold and here you are
as an adult and you'redoing it and you're
writing books for yourselfstill that's amazing
and I think how manykids are helped by that
(10:46):
I mean you know thethe best part of this
whole journey is thefeedback you know getting
emails every day withphotos of like parents
with their kidsreading the stories we
have plushies too so kidsclutching onto their
little prinkle and finplushies and you know
it's just I mean Iget emotional every
(11:08):
day when I we get thesemessages because it's
like wow I didn't expectit to feel so healing
for my own inner childto see this happening
and to know that I'mable to share something
with people that isactually having a
positive impact. And youkind of like fell right
into my next question.
So you're talking aboutyou know what kinds
(11:28):
of reactions have youreceived from children
families teachersanything that's jumping
out to you or that youwant to share about
because there's everythingyou know there's so
many just wonderfulwonderful I mean the
feedback has just beenphenomenal and um you
know kind of tying intowhat I said the thing
that I am so heartenedby is when parents
(11:51):
tell me like their kidsrequest it night after
night after night andI'm like they want
to go back to the storybecause you know not
because it's like ohit's the story that has
the two dads and thetwo moms it's it's the
story with the funpenguin the misadventures
and you know all thelittle things that they
do yet they aregetting to experience
(12:11):
stories with inclusivityat the same time and so
that's just incredibleand there is a there's
several teachers allover the United States
who tell me they readthis and they've uh
to their their classroomand have even worked
it into the syllabusand like it's a
teachable thing but likethe kids really respond
to it love it laughalong with it I have a
teacher there's a pre-k teacher in Vermont oh
(12:34):
my gosh she's turnedit into a whole thing.
She got she has theplushies, the Pringle
plushie, and she hidesit in her room every
day and the first thingsthat the kids have
to do is find where ohmy goodness hiding so
apparently it's becomesuch a popular part
of her classroom yearafter year now that if
a kid doesn't want to goto school for whatever
(12:55):
reason a parentwill say well if you
don't go you won't findpringle and they'll go
that gets them outthe door. They need fun
and i i love you knowthe fact that you can
you have the plushiesyou can you know tying
that play into earlyliteracy and I mean that's
just so that teacheris brilliant though
because that's it's sobrilliant I don't want
(13:17):
to miss out she's justcreating this FOMO
for this kid yeah shoutout to Miss Zachary
Miss Zachary ShannonZachary out in Vermont
and she even sent methis packet once last
year her students alldrew pictures of pringle
in their favoritehiding spot oh my gosh
wow art yeah yeah i lovethat that is so cool
(13:43):
um just all togethershe's just she's really
thought of it allbringing the art back i
know it's cool andthese kids are going to
be writing their ownbooks they're going to
be so i hope so ihope so yeah i want to
inspire them to writetheir own books and
stories too that's whereit all starts you know
that that spark startsso young how do you
(14:03):
hope that your storiesreally influence the
way children viewdisability and diversity
yeah well again Ireally feel like because
it's integrated intothe stories I want kids
to grow up realizingthis is a normal
everyday part of lifediversity is around us and
(14:26):
we love accept showgrace show empathy and
when you're surroundedby it and you're
shown it and you seethat oh this is just part
of life I think itreally opens the heart
it makes it easier toaccept diversity and
embrace diversity andthen the third thing, celebrate
(14:48):
diversity. Yeah, yeah, yeah,that's amazing.
You know, you'veshared kind of openly
about how livingwith your disability
has shaped your perspective as awriter, as an artist.
How has that experienceinfluenced your
creative process?
Oh, in a huge way,because I've had
(15:09):
to adapt to visionloss over time,
and as an artist,losing their vision.
I mean, that isquite a quandary.
There are many incredibleblind artists all
around the world doingincredible things.
Now, part of my educationis informing people
something that quitea few of us don't
(15:30):
know, even me. I didn'tknow this. I thought
blind meant no vision.
I grew up thinkingbecause that's what
television and movies tellus. But 93% of the
blind community hasfunctional vision so
that varies extremely ofcourse that can mean
maybe you only seelight light you know a
bit of a bright lightbut some people like
me have extreme tunnelvision so it's sort of
(15:52):
like looking througha straw okay and I
have no other vision noperipheral vision at
all and and then somepeople have the opposite
they have no centralvision but they
only have peripheralvision but these this is
all forms of blindnessand so educating people
about blindness issuper important. Now,
having said that,people use what vision
they do or don't haveto accomplish many
(16:15):
creative things, includingart. And I'm very,
very fortunate thatI've been able to find
ways to adapt to myvision loss and create
art along the way. Andlike I said, I had to
go from traditionalto tradigital. There's
our word of the day.
And I've been soincredibly grateful to
(16:38):
do that. So, youknow, I need very
specific conditionsto get the work done,
but I'm passionateabout it. I love it.
I will keep doingit. And, but it is
because I have aprogressive disease, I
have to kind of keepadapting as I go.
So my process haskind of slowed down
a bit, but that'sokay. I don't mind.
I get to do this fulltime now. So that's
(17:01):
amazing yeah that'swhat's been incredible so
now I get to do itfull-time the content
creation and stuff takesa lot of time too but
like, I really spendmost of my days working
on my books and Icouldn't be happier about
that. That's amazing andyeah, just always having
to find ways to adaptand that must be a
journey on its own. Itreally is it really is
(17:22):
and there's this reallyinteresting conversation
having coming upright now about people
with disabilities andthe use of AI. I've
seen a lot of peopleonline talking about well
AI is the only waythat a disabled person
can create art and I'mhere to say that isn't
true, you know I knowso many incredibly
(17:43):
talented disabled artistsand I know that there
are, I believe and Icome from the school of,
our obstacles often createamazing opportunities,
rather than seeingthe obstacles in
your life whether it'slike a chronic disease
or some other issuewe see those often as
(18:06):
closed doors but I thinkwe live in a time where
they can often becomegreater opportunities
it's really about ashift in perspective.
And so by sharing yourown personal stories
and getting connectedwith other people who
are dealing withsimilar things, I think
you'll find an incrediblecommunity of strength
(18:27):
that you wouldn't havehad. Well, yeah, it
provides an opportunityfor connection and
community. And yeah. Andwhat's more important
than that? I mean,really. Exactly. That's
what we all need.
That's what we all need.
In early childhoodeducation, we talk a
lot about havinghigh expectations for
all children and thebelief that every
child can learn, cangrow, can contribute.
(18:49):
What does thatphrase mean to you?
Oh, it means a lotto me because I
just, I'm the typeof person that
does not underestimatekids at all, at all. And I
would never want totalk down to them.
And I find that with alot of like children's
entertainment, sometimesI get very annoyed in
books and televisionand movies where it's
(19:10):
sort of like I hateto use this phrase
dumbed down but it's sortof like it's speaking
to kids in a way thatdoesn't respect how
advanced kids canreally truly be yeah
and that sometimes kidsdon't have to in fact
it's good when they don'tunderstand everything
right pepper no wordor two that is beyond
their reading levelbecause that's going
(19:32):
to teach them to growlearn ask questions
about it right and kidsare very good at filling
in the gaps anywayso i am like in my my
approach to writingand and creativity is
you know make a fewthings a little mysterious
a little out of reacha little bit of like
okay i'm gonna takeit's gonna take a
little extra time tounderstand this but my my
(19:54):
my um when i do readingsand I'm always blown
away by how how smartand inquisitive and
intuitive kids are andI think that a lot
of people forget thatwhen they're creating
for kids yeah no I thinkyou know and you're
making me think of somy kids recently I
don't know how we gotinto this but we started
(20:15):
watching like we'restarting from the beginning
of Mr. Rogers likewe're going back to
the beginning but heyou know watching the
way like he talks youknow he's not dumbing
stuff down. He is, hetalks about emotions
and things in ways thatare so real. And like
my kids will pick upon stuff if it's too
cheesy, but he is likeso subtle about it.
(20:36):
So sorry. I'm kind ofRoger's kick, but
I think it relatesto what you're saying
about, you know,talking to kids about
these things that arepart of real life. And
that's how he does.
He just puts it outthere and he really,
you know, so yeah, wejust watched like the
very first episode theother night and I was
like oh my gosh likeI don't know it's fun
I love it I'm likeI'm sitting here like
(20:57):
oh my god I need a Mr.
Rogers re-watch rightnow like seriously I
wish it would be likea thing because I
and I didn't think mykids like I I don't know
what made me like weshould watch this
and like they're likeliterally so interested
in there I thoughtthey'd be a little too
old for it but the waythat he talks about
things and there's justa little bit of
realness but yet there'ssome playfulness of
(21:17):
imagination. And I think,you know, that brings
kids in and keepsthose expectations
for them to learn. AndI don't know. Yeah.
If you have some time,just go back, start at
the beginning. Yeah.
That's so cool. That'sso cool. And it's,
it's telling that wekind of have to look
back that far to findthat because I don't
(21:37):
think it's harderto find now. I can't
think of something asI'm, like I said, going
down this Mr. Rogerspath. Like I can't
think of somethingthat's as similar as
that and I mean Iwatched him growing up so
I mean it's been aminute but man it could
bring that back Iknow I know I know I
worry sometimes I knowbut you know we'll
(22:02):
do it we'll get thatwe'll go circle we'll
get back to that Ithink so how can stories
like yours helpteachers and families
challenge thosestereotypes and really
nurture children'sconfidence especially those
with disabilitiestrue yeah I think hmm
(22:27):
you know again growingup growing up I think
we all have a momentat least a moment
growing up where we feellike we don't fit in
oh my goodness everybodyeverybody forget it
like we can all relateyeah you don't have
(22:48):
to have a disabilityto know what it feels
like to feel like youdon't belong or you
don't fit in. It's auniversal experience.
And I think that's thedistinction I want to
make. It's not so muchlike, oh, the disabled
kid or the queer kidor, you know, the
adopted kid is the onlyone who's feeling a
(23:10):
little different andneeds that attention. We
all need it. And maybethat is what's most
important because whenevery student in the
classroom or every kidin the family or all
the peer group friendsunderstand that they
are having the sameuniversal experience
it's just being expresseda little differently
then you realizethere's no outsiders
(23:30):
anymore and that's whyi that's the message i
think is most importantyeah i love that
because you're exactlyright you know whether
everybody needs thatsense of belonging and
everybody feels thatsometimes so you know
bringing that togetherthat belonging identity
yeah yeah all underthat same umbrella
(23:51):
together and I think byemphasizing that it's
the realization thatevery kid has that
like oh okay you're youknow you have this I
have I have this goingon but we're really
the same and that reallyexercises that muscle
of empathy I thinkwhen you know some kids
are more inclined tobe empathetic I mean,
right off the bat,some have to really
(24:11):
learn it throughexperiences. But I think when
you learn empathy at ayoung age, it's going
to set you up for therest of your life.
Oh, gosh, yeah. Iwish, you know, it's so
important. Like yousaid, some kids, it is
going to take a littlebit more to learn that.
And some kids, maybeit does feel, but
having that time, andI think using books,
(24:34):
early literacy, writing,drawing, all that can
help with that empathy.
and I think you'reright that's one of
the things that you canget that if you can
understand that yeahyeah that's great and
you made a really goodpoint it's not just
about being read to it'salso the creative
process getting to playthe play part the
creative exercising yourown imagination and
(24:54):
reinterpreting thingsand then getting feedback
through that processthat's huge and that's
so important andthat's why I love hearing
that your kids aredoing these comics and
stuff that's so awesomeI love yeah it's it's
fun to see you knowand and and my kids
are so differentbecause I've got one
(25:15):
that you know she coulddraw and she just loves
and my other one notas much but every now
and then he'll get intoit and every kid's
so different but I'mglad they're doing it
and it's fun to see whatthey come up with you
know oh I bet I betfor teachers for families
what you know whoreally want to bring
(25:36):
more inclusive practicesinto their classrooms
or homes you knowpeople like me what
advice would you shareyou know I would I
would really encouragefinding stories that have
subtle representationso that not every
(25:59):
every time a kid isintroduced to representation
because kids aresmart as we've discussed
they're like oh it'sanother message but
got it and they're onlylearning about
inclusivity diversity whenit's one of these books
you know what I meanand they sort of
compartmentalize it likeoh it's that and if you
(26:20):
seek out the storiesthat are more incidental
like i've beenemphasizing it's not
so much like oh it's ohit's just there oh it's
like a subtle hmm okayand i think that is
going to have a biggerlonger lasting impact
because it's not againit's not separating
it from the the groupagain it's about this
(26:42):
feeling of when youare growing up and
feeling different and youhave a disability or
various other thingsyou always feel like
you're being singled outor separated same
thing with the booksbecause eventually it's
just going to emphasizethis feeling of
separation and difference.
So integrative sort of subtlemessaging, I think
just makes it feel somuch more casual
(27:05):
and part of life.
Yeah, exactly.
How can educators use your booksas starting points
for conversationsabout belonging and identity?
Oh, yeah. I mean, Iget so many teachers
reaching out, tellingme how they've
used the books in thatway um as as a and
(27:28):
a lot of parents whoreach out with emails
saying this was theperfect way to open
discussions aboutyou know uh uncle you
know bill and tomlike they have in the
family like theyhave two you know uh
gay parents or somethinglike that or um
(27:49):
representation ofblind characters
like let's have aconversation around
disability and andthey will often tell
me that it startswhen the the kid
has a question kidsare curious right
endlessly curiousvery much so and so I
think it's just afun starting off like
(28:10):
a springboard youknow to have a fun
story and then allowa conversation to
develop love it umbefore before we wrap
up, what's next foryou? Do you have any
upcoming projects orthings that you're
excited about inthe, in the future?
Yes, very excited. I havea lot of things going
on. I, well, firstof all, I'm currently
(28:31):
writing my firstmiddle grade novel.
Ooh, okay. I want tohear about this. Yeah.
Well, I can't, Ican't tease too much,
but I will say that thereis a, the protagonist
is low vision. SoI'm really tackling
disability but likein a nuanced way where
it's not like it'sjust a blind character
this this character hasa disability and it's
(28:54):
an exciting adventurestory with you know
it's going to be goodit's going to be really
like a fun story withsome incidental some
messaging in there aboutdisability specifically
and then I havetwo new children's
picture books comingout next year one i'm so
excited about it takeson uh internet bullying
(29:15):
because i really feellike there aren't
enough books thatprepare kids for what is
coming they may be tooyoung to have their
phones but they see momand dad on their phones
they understand whatsocial media is and
i think it's so importantto be prepared for
what that could looklike so i'm working
on a book called um it'scalled ned the internet
(29:36):
troll oh it is aboutreal trolls that
live beneath the internetand they have a job
to be mean and nastyexcept ned he doesn't
quite fit in becausehe's a little too nice
and this is a whimsicalstory that really
explores how to approachthat kind of bullying
(29:57):
cyberbullying specificallyum which i think
is super importantto have some early um
preparation for thatyou know what i mean
so um that's somethingthat i and me as
somebody who's verypresent online i've
been the recipient ofa lot of it and i've
seen a lot of ithappen so i think it's
a really importanttopic and then my second
(30:20):
book is the blindrobot it's um i've
been doing a webcomic for the last few
years called the blindrobot and i have a
fully illustratedchildren's book that has
the characters in itgoes on a fun journey
again it's just moreso about this like community and
connection lots of humorand adventure a bit
of an adventure storybut of course there's
(30:41):
a lot of importantmessaging in there
too so uh that'll becoming out probably
by next Christmas.
That is so exciting.
Thank you somuch for coming here
today and sharingall this with us.
And I am so excitedto see your new books come out.
What a powerful reminderthat when children
see themselvesreflected in stories of
(31:01):
strength and joy,they learn that their
experiences matterand that they belong.
You can learn moreabout Paul's work and
find links to his booksin the episode notes.
I'm Kayla O'Neill, andthis has been Early
Childhood on the Go.
Thank you for joiningus. And remember that
every child bringssomething remarkable to
the story of learning.
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