Destiny: Miles Neale, Return with Elixir

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Destiny.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
I gotta say the energetic news lately has been dire.
In fact, there's been articles on Calai Yuga, the end
of the Yuga cycle, as being this month, the month
of August, and I don't think the authors, the writers
quite understand that it's not a single day like a calendar.

(00:41):
Remember in twenty twelve the calendar of the Maya ended
and people were like, the world's going to end. You know,
what are we going to do now? And I remember
my mentor Humban's men, the Mayan elder, said.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
To me, this is just one end.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
It's one calendar ending, and there's a new wants starting.
And as a daykeeper, he was very much in touch
with these cyclic calendars which started and stopped over thousands
and thousands of years. Hey, this is Cliff, your host
of Destiny, and today we're going to talk about energy

(01:20):
trauma and how to work with these energetics in the
coming age. If Kelly Yuga is ending, that means dwar
Pa Yuga is beginning. So we're gonna get some positives
of the energy in the next thousands of thousands of years.
Bleeding into our current existence. And what's really tough right

(01:44):
now is my son generation x Z and so forth.
These younger generations are really being challenged with the current
society status quo. This is the disruption of of the economy,
the disruption of society.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
When I was coming.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Up, it was easy to get a job, went out
of college. You know, I had many jobs and it
wasn't a big deal. Today it's hard to get a
job that you like. It's hard to keep a job
if it's chaotic. It's hard to work for some people.
It's hard to work in big groups.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I am one.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Who came up working for the corporate world and quickly
found out in about a decade that I was not tooned.
I was not really ideally situated to be able to
work with a whole bunch of people. And you know,
here in northern California, I've worked with the Apple computer,

(02:47):
I worked with Google. One of my last corporate jobs
was with PayPal, and I was just a number and
I didn't like it. And I mean, I've been to
school and I came up and I was a terrible
student in high school, terrible, I think. I when I graduated,

(03:09):
I had like a C C plus average or whatever.
And the only way I got into college wasn't wasn't
because of my grade point average. It was because I
had had a pretty good portfolio. And I transferred from
high school to a Long Beach state which had an
amazing animation department and illustration apartment, and I studied animation.

(03:34):
And it's the same school that Stephen Spielberg went to,
and their animation department was fabulous. Back then, they had
what they called it was one of the only colleges
that had the multi plane camera, which in those days
was you would have multi sheets of backgrounds and figures
and and you would shoot image.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
You'd shoot it through.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
These pieces of film. You'd have like five or six
or up to ten sheets of film that you shut
your image through, and then you slowly have your characters
crossing over through the image and so forth and so on. Anyhow,
that's before the that's before the digital I really aging myself.
That's before the digital technology got going. And it's a

(04:23):
whole different ball game. But in those days, you had
to be an artist. You had to be able to
render images, render figures. They wanted you to do quite
a bit in the classic style where you would copy
the masters Da Vinci and Michelangelo and Peter Paul Rubin's

(04:46):
people like that who are real master draftsmen. But college
is completely different now. And my son graduated with a
videographics degree, and he was working for a few years
and then the whole industry went belly up. This was

(05:07):
before COVID, and he he struggled and he's held jobs
everything from a carpenter to growing cannabis here in northern
California on a farm and developing his own gummies and things.
So and if you followed along, I was a big

(05:29):
advocate for cannabis. I still am, but I find the
older like I get, the less the less opportunities I
have for consumption of the thac the active psychoactive component
of cannabis. So I'm I'm I'm less active smoking or
or or and don't I'm not a real fan of gummies.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
A lot of people like the gummies.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
But I just I don't like. I don't like the sensation.
I feel like I'm in a fog when I'm when
I'm chewing a gummy. But my point is that things
have changed energetically, and the younger generations are having a
tough time of it. My son's dealing with some depression
and things like that, and this is all the finishing

(06:15):
of kali yuga. And we're able to identify this now.
And I'm really happy to have discovered the yoga system
because we're able to understand that we're just not having,
you know, emotional problems for nothing. This is a cyclic situation.
We're slowly coming out of thousands of years of cali

(06:39):
yuga and we're moving into the next phase, which is
much more light, much more positive, and much more energetic.
Now you can look at these phases of the yoga
and if Caliga calli yuga is the dark phase or
the most heavy, then you can see what it looks
like politically. Looking like politically, what are we looking at economically,

(07:04):
what are we looking at it echo wise, ecosystems, the
ecology of the planet, and.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
What positive things that we have looking forward to.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
And this is I think one of the problems with
our younger generations. They don't see and they don't feel
that there is anything positive to look forward to. And
this is the problem. And so my guest today who's
a psychologist, is going to really shed light on what
we can look forward to, but not only that, how

(07:34):
to process this dark period, how to go through, how
to work it in a manner that is more fulfilling,
less depressing, and sheds more light on what we can expect,
because as a cycle, it's going to be highlights, low lights,

(07:55):
dark lights, and it's tough.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
It's tough.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
I remember growing up and i'd ha parers who an like,
what the hell? This is just the pits and you
kind of hate life. I think we've all gone through
that as young people. It's like, what the hell am
I learning? Why am I going to college? I am
not getting anything out of college. I asked that of
myself many times. And I didn't have a real stable

(08:20):
family life. My parents were not happy with each other,
and so there was a period just before I went
to college where my parents got divorced, and it was
it shook everything up. Of course, I felt the vibe
between my parents, and I knew that things were not good.
But when you have parents who divorce, that's a very

(08:41):
powerful energy, very depressing and sad and debilitating. And so
I went away to school. I left the Bay Area
and went to Los Angeles and went to college because
I didn't want to be around it. You know, I'm
just hyper sensitive, but I didn't want to be around it.
So we're going to learn a bit about processing with

(09:01):
this wonderful, wonderful psychologist. And his name is Miles Neil,
and the book we're talking about has just come out.
It's called Return with Elixir, Four Maps for the Soul's
Pilgrimage through Death and Rebirth. So that's our program today,

(09:24):
and I think it's going to be a little bit
longer than normal, but I think you're going to really
if you work with it, if you really follow the program,
I think there's something to be gained from this interview.
You know, every so often I do a tour that

(09:45):
I consider a vision quiz. This is where you start
and you finish and you have been transformed in some
respect from the interaction with pyramids, with shaman, with special people.
And we have one coming up this December call called
Sacred Temple Tour of Guatemala. It's gonna be December first
to the twelfth of the month. This is the chance

(10:06):
to meet with shaman and archaeologists and people who understand energy,
ancient energy, all in one area. You may have heard
one of the hosts of the program that's going to
be doctor Lydia Di Leong and her partner Arturo, and
we're going to be led through a series of programs initiations,

(10:29):
but the majority of this tour is interacting with buildings,
ancient temples, pyramids that we don't sit and look at,
we actually interact with through ceremony, through meditation, and through connecting.
To join this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com

(10:50):
forward slash tours. Check it out and the itinerary is fantastic.
We'll be in Guatemala, which is the heart of one
of the largest Mayan cities in the world, and we
will go to many other.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Places as well.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
For all the details again go to earth Agents dot
com forward slash Tours. If you have any questions whatsoever,
send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the
number four of the letter you at gmail dot com.
Come out, do this vision quest and heal, invigorate and transform.

(11:56):
My guest today is Miles Neil. He is a psychotherapists.
He's written a new book called Return with Elixor and
I've been passing through it and I got to tell you,
the guy's got his hand on a lot of really
important material. And what makes this book fun is he
kind of went through his own journey, came out on

(12:17):
the other end, and has a whole bunch of contemplative
material that I think is a good read. He is
a psychotherapist psychology instructor, and he's written two books, one
called Gradual Awakening and he goes, excuse me. He's co
editor of Advances in Contemplative Psychotherapy and would you believe

(12:41):
he's coming to us today from Bali, Indonesia, which is
an amazing place. So we're going to find out what
he has come up with, what he has passed, how
he has passed through the fire and come out, and
what we're going to get. So, Miles, welcome to Destiny.
Great to have you on the program.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Oh thanks so much, Cliff.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
I'm delighted to have a conversation with you. Things podcast
like these, you know, high caliber podcasts and experienced interview doers.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
What excites me most is you just never.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
Know where what labyrinth, door and passageway we'll enter into.
So I'm very excited. I've been a big fan and
follower of your work and so I'm so so honored
to sit with you and have a chat and see
where our journey takes us.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Got to ask you, you're from Manhattan, what the heck
are you doing in BALI.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
Well, it's partly listening to the soul, as I write
in my book, you know, and partly it's because you know,
I have two kids, and so I think, you know.
I was reading the tea leaves and things in the
United States are going through its own Saturn return, which
is an astrological.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Phase for a deep reckoning.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
And with all the costs, right, and the sort of
paralysis and sort of polarization and just the politicization and
all the rest of it. I was really looking for
a new start, basically, and to give my kids an
international exposure which I had growing up. I was born
in Singapore and raised in Hong Kong. I lived in

(14:19):
Hong Kong for eighteen years, and I did a whole
long and lengthy chapter of my education and my career
in New York City, and by the time we hit
the pandemic, my radar was up for a new start.
So that's the short that's the short and very comfortable answer.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
That's such an exotic place, but it's also very tranquil
and ancient in many ways too, And after reading a
lot of your book, I can get a sense that
you're this ancient soul that kind of had a need
to go back to home base in a way and
kind of absorb the energy of an ancient place like that.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
That's very true. I mean, deep soul is something I'm
oriented towards.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
You know, I've done a lot of traveling in my life,
and you know, a place speaks to us. It can
resonate at a kind of vibration that either aligns with
us or not. And so when I go to places
like Greece, for example, I mean I can feel my
DNA spinning at a different rate and I just know
there's something here. And Bali's one of those places too.

(15:31):
It's not without its own challenges, of course, It's not
like a paradise it's but it is offering something that
was missing and necessary for this sort of new chapter.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Of my life.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
The book Return with elix Or feels like a cathartic
release to me from your soul. Talk about writing the
book and it feels like a journey to me. But
I'd like to hear from you exactly why you decided
to write the book, but also what happened in the

(16:07):
process of writing the book.

Speaker 5 (16:09):
Yeah, Cliff, thanks so much for that. That's you know,
it strikes to the heart of the inner narrative of
Return with the Elixir. I mean, it's a book about
multiple maps. It's a book or a kind of mythopoetic
guide for people who are doing a reboat or reset
or rebirth in.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Their own life.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
But it really grew out of my own sort of
breakdown and break through, if you will. It was it
was really I would start this way. In contrast to
my first book, Gradual Awakening, Return with the Elixir was
about a very deep listening. I mean, the first book
twenty five years I spent as a teacher of Tibetan Buddhism,

(16:47):
and I was really trying to do some integrative work
presenting a fourteenth century text on Tibetan Buddhism that was
the roadmap or cookbook to awakening. And so it was
really kind of an intellectual exercise. How could I take
old material and synthesize it in a new way start
to finish the Tibetan Buddhist path. Return with the Lickxir

(17:11):
was a turning inward and a really sort of a
deep listening to my own personal experience. And it was
a crossroad. It was a turning point for me because
in a way I had established myself in New York
City as a therapist. I had a niche working with
yogis and contemplative people and people interested in the meditation movement,

(17:33):
spiritual you know, people who wanted to work on psychology
and spirituality at the same time. And I was very
content to kids nice house in Westchester. You know, it
was kind of like it was kind of like the
pinnacle of a career. I couldn't have asked for anything more.
But something was a miss something was off, and I
couldn't put my finger on it. And I started having visions.

(17:57):
And you know, I don't say that lightly because I
don't don't want to come across as sort of a
prophet or whatever. I actually write in the book that
I think many of us have kind of visionary experience
or dream dreams, potent side of synchronicities, and we kind
of just dismissed them because we live in a very
sort of banal, kind of clinical, dry, disenchanted world, as

(18:18):
Rick Tarnis might put it. But for me, I started
really orienting to these intuitions and these visions, and in
a way I later learned through Jung that those intuitions
was really kind of the soul's compass, my soul's compass.
And then somewhere along the line, I had a really

(18:39):
nasty ordeal what Joseph Campbell might call the card six
o'clock moment, just the a terrifying, debasing, absolutely soul destroying moment.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Which I write in the book.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
It had to do with a sort of betrayal and
a spiritual community with my personal teacher who i'd been
serving and have been an apprentice and a mentee of
for some twenty years, and it really did destroy me.
And in my efforts to try to reclaim my life
and piece it all together, I went on a long
adventure and I just documented it. And so Return of

(19:16):
the Lickxur is part map, multiple maps, actually, but it's
also just a way of chronicling and tracking my own
my own journey.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
Into dissolution, you know.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
And I really want to emphasize that that I have
this sort of recollection because people ask me, I've been
a teacher of Tibetan Buddhism, for a very long time.
I've been a psychologist for equally long. You know, how
did your practices help you when you were in an
absolute crisis? And I want to be honest about it.

(19:50):
The fact of the matter is nothing worked. Nothing worked
in the sense that nothing held me together, nothing kept
me above water. And there was something in all of
these traditions that I think is if it's if there's
one take home from the book, whether it be yoga
or Tibetan Buddhism, or astrology or jung or alchemy, the

(20:14):
esoteric or the mystical traditions, all are saying something very
similar that.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
You you you can't raise or rise to the summit
without doing an underworld journey, without going to the depths,
and without being obliterated.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
So to say, you know, when people ask me, what
how is your You have such a big toolkit, you
have so many things to draw on, I say, no,
none of them worked, because that's the nature of a real,
true crisis of the soul. You are. You are destined
to absolutely become obliterated. And not many people like to

(20:51):
go there, and they know definitely don't like to talk
about it.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
I would like you to talk just a brief moment
about the panic attack that led you as kind of
a kickstart to move beyond your work and give up
your practice.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Number one.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
But the thing that I'm also interested in, if you
are anointed in this Eastern philosophy where you're meditating, you're
doing perhaps yoga or some form of movement, why that
wasn't helpful enough for you to say, Okay, I can
stabilize myself here. What it seems to me was happening

(21:34):
was that you were transforming or you had had enough.
And you're right about this, and we're going to talk
about this in a minute. How younger people are not
able because they don't have the tools to transform and
move beyond the personal crisis a lot of people are

(21:54):
having right now. But I want to hear from you
real quickly.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, a great question, Cliff, Thank you. It's I think
it's a clash of.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
Paradigm what you're asking, because if you look and it's
it's not just you, it's the way that you frame
the question has some underlying assumptions, not the least most
important of which is if you have a toolkit, you
should be able to stabilize yourself. And if and if
and if if you don't have a toolkit, then you're

(22:22):
you're a mess or you're vulnerable. So the underlying assumption
is that we should be able to overcome our you know,
handle it or or man up, or become so resilient
or you know, as Dave asp recalls it, become bulletproof.
It's part of our ethos, especially in an American culture,
that we we could become iron men and women. We

(22:44):
should be transcendent. So to go back a little bit,
you asked me about panic attacks, and I could be
very transparent about it. I was in an office building
in Manhattan where I was receiving my psychotherapy clients. I'm
on like the ten third, eleventh floor. I remember now
it's been so long and it's part of my past
life narrative. I can hardly remember anymore. But you know,

(23:06):
Manhattan is a congested place, and it spins at a
certain kind of vortex that makes you feel absolutely like
you're chasing your tail. And it's no longer a nine
to five, it's like a seven to eight ordeal every day,
and everything is confined, and everything is constricted, and the
world was spinning at such a pace that like come
Monday morning, journeying from one box in a moving box

(23:31):
to my office box, and then most importantly, feeling that
the world view that I was in was a kind
of restrictive, confining box. And having neck up conversations with
people about the problem is sort of what Freud called
the working well. I started having panic attacks because I
felt very confined I was. I was feeling very limited

(23:57):
not only by my space, but also so by my profession.
The confines of my profession. Insurance companies pay for eight sessions.
You're supposed to do therapy just this way. You're supposed
to move people out of crisis so that they can
get back to work as quickly as possible. And all
of that just became too confining. And so in a way,

(24:21):
if I had gone to a psychiatrist and gotten some medication,
or if I was so called just doing my meditation
practice just right, what would have inevitably happened is I
would have just been anesthesizing myself and keeping myself bound
in a paradigm or of an invisible prison. And it's

(24:41):
I liken this to like if you sprain your ankle
and your body is giving you signals not to bear
any weight on it. But you bandage it and you
take some sort of painkillers, you're denying yourself important information
from a deeper part of your being that's trying to
orient you to something, a new horizon. And so for me,

(25:04):
the panic attacks weren't a symptom to be ameliorated. And
this goes back now to the bigger question that you pose.
Panic attacks for me were a soul's beckoning. It was
a call to adventure. It was some part of my
soul recognizing like I had reached the tail end of
this kind of edifice of the life that I had
constructed over twenty years. I had some success. I had

(25:27):
a nice I was doing publications. I had a nice,
cushy job. I had a stream steady stream of clients.
My kids lived in a nice house in Westchester. It
was all the kind of accoutrement of a decent life.
And I have nothing, no bad things to say about it.
But it was the end cliff, and that end.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Started.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
It's the floor beneath me started to shake, and the
edifice of this construction of deck of cards started to erode.
And in a way, I have to say, it was
a mirror for what I think all of us are
experiencing in civilization right now. There are telltale signs the
so called panic attacks of civilization are amidst us. And
rather than ducking and burying our heads like ostriches in

(26:13):
the sand and getting on with business and just you know,
being ultra distracted or ultra polarized or ultra you know,
spoon fed propaganda, I think we have to register that
something deeper is afoot and allow ourselves to follow a
deeper calling during this monumental moment. So that was happening
both on an individual level for me, and nothing is

(26:36):
going to stem the tide, is my point. Whether we're
talking a collective or we're talking an individual, there's no
it doesn't behoove us to find a tool to kick
the can down the road and stabilize what the esoteric
traditions are saying. And what I try to recapture in
my book and recount in my book is go with
the dissolution, Surrender to the dissolusion.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
There is another world waiting for us.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Let's not hold on to this one which is barely working.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
But if you surrender and you don't have the tool,
because I've been meditating for thirty years, and I understand
where you're coming from. I use meditation as a governor
also a way to balance what's going on. It's not
always a solution. But I'm interested to hear from you

(27:27):
because you write very succinctly about our youth feeling apathetic,
feeling depressed. My son is dealing with depression now. He's
only in his early thirties, and I'm feeling for him
because he's successful, but he is hypersensitive to society's activities

(27:54):
right now. And as a psychotherapist, I'm interested to hear
from you. We proceed into this journey that you had,
what you were seeing perhaps in your practice that was
triggering you, because if you're seeing people who are in
despair and apathetic, it's like, what the hell? You know?

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Yeah, Well, first of all, I'm sorry as a father
to hear that. It's a hard road to watch your
son go through difficult times. Okay, and since he has success,
you can't question it. It's not his ability or his will.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I don't mean to analyze your son, just mean to
empathize with you, and empathize with anyone listening that has
close ones who go through this. But to highlight. What
I'm really suggesting is you have choices. You could send
your son to a therapist, You could send your son
to a psychiatrist, you could find some sort of symptom relief.

(28:52):
And as a parent, I would never judge that, because
your heart is being pulled. You want the best for him,
you want him to throw.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
But what if it.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
Wasn't about maintenance. What if it was actually something inside
The youth of today is registering an awareness that the
edifice of the civilization that they have been bequeathed is
at its tail end, and we're actually all undergoing a

(29:24):
death process, and we're in a very specific time period
where the old is collapsing that much we know the
new one has yet to emerge. And so you and
me consider here and go. Young people don't know if
it's worth going to college, if AI is going to
steal their job, if there's anything after that two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars in school debt that's ever going

(29:46):
to give them a payout. If everybody seems to be
absolutely invested and hijacked by propaganda and news media. They're
hooked to their cell phones, they're addicted out of the
gate there's a lot to be unhappy about, and a
lot to be worried about, and a lot to be.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Concerned about.

Speaker 5 (30:06):
And there's a heavy burden on people growing up right
now that certainly your generation didn't have. My parents' generation
enjoyed a whole run where they could envision in life
of a stable home, an income, with a corporation that
gave them a pension, a white picket fence, with two kids.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
We don't live in that world anymore.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
I'm of a generation where I enjoyed most of my career.
I enjoyed that kind of stability and predictability. People coming
up right now do not have even a year long
vision out. They can't do it because so much of
the landscape changes. What is it in us that says
that symptoms that you describe your John as having aren't

(30:52):
absolutely appropriate for a sane person, exactly absolutely appropriate. We
don't The sands underneath our feet are shifting. We don't
know what the horizon line looks like. We're scared out
of hell. We feel alienated, we feel a lack of
a lack of meaning and purpose. Why go to a

(31:13):
mechanized institution and and and get spit out? Four years
later where you're absolutely unprepared for the future. People, young
people know this intuitively, and when then we and then
we look at them with care and concern and as parents,
and we say we give them advices that we would
have given, we would have been given for an older

(31:35):
time that no longer works. So what I'm suggesting is, yes,
there could be real cases where clinical depression may be
really maybe really warrant. Someone needs a stable a stable
ground for a minute. I'm not whitewashing and generalizing every case.
What I'm suggesting, though, is to open the parameter from

(31:59):
this very narrow clinical symptom management type of present presentation like, oh,
some you have you have symptoms here. If we could
just get this, we could just ameliorate the symptoms. We
could get you back to work and you'll have a
perfect light. What I'm saying is there's a spiritual or
an existential underpinning, which is it's sort of listening to

(32:21):
your soul that says. What if he was listening and
he translated it as I don't fit in this world, yeah,
or this world doesn't make sense. What if it had
a language and it was whispering in your ear and
he was saying something like, there's no place for me here.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Then what would be the.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Remedy is is listen and acknowledge and instead of divide
him against himself where there's kind of like an underlying
judgment there's something wrong with you.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh what if it was.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
No, there's something absolutely attuned with you, and we have
to work together to help recreate the environment so that
it's more suitable to your journey instead of the other
way round. So it beckons a series of further questions.
It's different kinds of questions. And these are the kinds
of questions I was asking myself on my own personal journey.

(33:24):
It wasn't like how can I make my feel self
feel better? It's what what is my soul really trying
to tell me? That's a completely different The question, just
like in a scientific experiment, sets up the entire experiment
and determines what kind of results you get. So these

(33:48):
esoteric traditions are suggesting that maybe some of these symptoms
are bang on. Maybe there's a part of our being
that isn't just intellectual, it's intuitive, and it's deeper than that.
It's registering that we're living in a crisis situation. It's
asking us to go through the crisis in a particular way.
Maybe there's nothing wrong with us per se as human beings.

(34:10):
Maybe we're registering that the environment is undergoing a dramatic,
cataclysmic shift and we have to go with that current
through the other side. And part of that might mean
a hell of a lot of very scary letting go.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
That's great, Yeah, I you right that.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
These strains are what you consider the collapse of society, ecology,
the economy, and geopolitical problems or geopolitical unrest. That's a
lot for the younger generations to handle. And we've been
through it, you know. I'm in my sixties, and I'm

(34:50):
able to deal with it a little bit better or
I try to ignore it. But somebody who's a magnet
to this information, who needs to hear about these societal changes,
may not be able to release it quite in the
same way that we do. And you made some great
points about Eastern philosophies and these tried and true programs

(35:17):
and practices that help buffer these these problems. If someone
is not able to accept in Eastern philosophy like we have,
what are their options?

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Well, this is where it's you know, I don't disparage
sort of the clinical use of meditation or anything like that.
I think it serves a kind of purpose. What I'm
suggesting is, if we open the telephoto lens, there are
multiple options for someone who's really destabilized and maybe can't
handle a deeper dark Night of the soul journey. I mean,

(35:54):
in a way, I'm putting this to you so that
they're your listeners have options. But in and another way,
if it's really truly a dark Knight of the soul,
what I'm suggesting is tools won't work by definition in
a way, if it's a true dissolution or dark Knight
of the soul, by definition, our tools won't help. But

(36:19):
if it's short of a true dark Knight of the soul, yes,
it's possible that community places of safety and refuge practices
for self regulation, which meditation and yoga are wonderful at.
These are natural and natural medicines and natural remedies, the

(36:42):
sound music, art literature. These all can serve as bastions
of support and inner reliance what are called inner refuges.
They create safety. It's all about the sense of coherence
and safety when you're feeling fragment, the best one that

(37:02):
is recommended by our human design we overlook all the time,
and in fact we're having the biggest influx of disruptor.
It's an actual face of somebody else in proximity that's
more regulated than us. By design. We have facial recognition,
We have a vagus nerve that regulates our neural pathways

(37:26):
and our ability to regulate our emotions. If we're just
in the presence of someone who has some level of
self regulation, some level of kindness and empathy, offers a
calm demeanor and a soothing voice. The sound of a
soothing voice, and the wonderful thing for people who want

(37:47):
to take that role it may be parents or example, spouses, partners.
The trick and the key and the wonderful liberating thing
about this is you don't have to do anything. You
don't have to fix the problem. Ten minutes of being
with somebody with an open heart and a calm demeanor
and a present face is enough to help someone come

(38:11):
from disequilibrium back online to find their own.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
Vibration of stability.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
And this is a wonderful gift that we can give
each other that we forget in an era of disruption
and we're all distracted and we're more focused on our
phones than on the human presence aspect. So it is
like a gift, and I think the burden that we
often too often fall into as partners spouses in our
relations we go for the problem solving and we don't

(38:40):
go for enough of the presence. And you can never
problem solve anyway if you're disregulated and fragmented. So really,
to help someone learn how to cope with their reality,
they have to shift from being disregulated into wise mind,
into reclaiming their nervous system and all the only thing
that we have to do is just be willing to

(39:03):
be with them in their state of distress. And of
course the problem is is when we see someone in distress,
especially someone we love, what happens.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
To us, Yeah, throws this off too.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
It throws us off. So the whole mechanism goes topsy turvy,
you know. So if we can just remember, actually, the
gift that I have to give is my own calm
nervous system. Someone's just going through a wave in the ocean.
If I just sit with them long enough, we'll pass
through that current together. I'm free of the burden of
trying to fix them. They can fix themselves or learn

(39:36):
how to fix themselves, or learn how to tinker with
the bigger picture of reality. And we're just surviving a
tumult here. That can be a really big learning lesson
for both the receiver and the giver.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I'm kind of translating that to me somebody who might
be grounded and maybe something isn't really kind of chaotic
and wanting to know what the hell does what's going
to happen next, and not really having any balance.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Yeah, it's emotional and it becomes cognitive too, So yes,
I mean, if you feel emotionally grounded and in your
body and your nervous system, and you remain calm and connected,
let's say there's two very it's not just you, you're also connected,
which means you can empathize with somebody without getting overwhelmed
by their distress. This is what therapists and first responders learn.

(40:30):
They learn how to be available without getting overwhelmed. Now,
part of their mechanism could be to shut things off,
and we don't want that. So you know, if you
walk into your doctor's office, or you walk into a
trauma surgery, or you walk into you sometimes get first
responders who learn to be present without being empathic. Now,

(40:52):
I'm sure your listeners and you and I have had
that experience of walking into a doctor's office where we're
just like meat on the conveyor belt. You know, it's
like too many, you know that. But how do you
stay connected with someone and empathic without getting overwhelmed by
whatever is happening in their bit of reality? That's an art.

(41:13):
But that art, if we were to learn, and we
were to extend as a gift to our loved ones,
would go a very very long way. Now, what we're
just to orient, we're still talking about coming short of
a true dark knight of the soul, Like, how can
we be effective? How could you work with your son?
How could you stabilize people that aren't willing or ready
to be on a long term, very very deep spiritual

(41:35):
journey of disintegration, voluntary disintegration.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
That's the bigger question.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
This is more of a kind of a smaller question,
is how do I just survive the ebb and flow
of such and flux of such a rapid change. Well,
we really need to stick together and we could all
afford to learn some very basic coregulation deeper empathy and enhance,
just as AI is booming, enhance our human and pathy
in our deep social emotional intelligence.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
It would go a long way.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
with my guests today, Miles Neil discussing his latest book,
Return with Elixor, will be right back. My guest today

(43:04):
is Miles Neil. He is a psychologist who does pilgrimage
to sacred sites and through these programs he is able
to help people realign and prepare for the future. His
latest book is Return with Elixor, Four Maps for the
Soul's Pilgrimage through Death and Rebirth. I want to get

(43:31):
into system vibrations like the Yugas. But before I do that,
you use the term pilgrimage quite a bit in your book,
and this is an important key that I found that
I have fallen into. When I mean I need to
get away, I need to go to another country or

(43:53):
another area, or I'm here in California, so I have
a lot of landscape that I can go and do
vision quest But why are pilgrimages so important when we're
trying to release, not only trauma, but perhaps realign.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
Yeah, it's a great question. It's one of my favorite questions.
Pilgrimage has become front and center my new form of therapy.
So I did twenty five years of conventional therapy, then
I started integrating Buddhist techniques, and then I started integrating
young But I've crossed a rubicon entirely now where I
view pilgrimage as a therapeutic intervention and people think I'm

(44:36):
nuts for that, but it's worthy of exploration. I mean,
there are many kinds of pilgrimages. In the Tibetan tradition.
There are at least three types or categories of pilgrimage.
One is the outer pilgrimage to a sacred destination. One
is an inner pilgrimage. It is a journey into the
inner landscape of one's mind, into the labyrinth of one's mind,

(44:58):
if you will. And the third is called the secret pilgrimage,
and that has more to do with the pilgrimage of
aligning your internal vibration and energy prana. So it's an
energetic it's an esoteric pilgrimage. It's considered secret or contric
because if you monkey around too much with that kind
of energy system, without the right initiation or support, you

(45:18):
could actually hurt yourself. So those three pilgrimages are beautiful opportunities.
They are all defined by one principle. They're disruptors of
ordinary reality. So when you ask me, what purpose does
a pilgrimage serve, you know, people think of pilgrimage as
in terms of a kind of travel. Well, the way

(45:42):
that we travel these days. Actually most of us look
for comforts. If you're working hard, Cliff, and I'm working hard,
you know, we want to come to Bali and we
want to put our feet up and we want to
sit with you know, we want to relax in the
swimming pool with a nice drink and some you know,
smoothie bowls as we look over look the ocean. But

(46:04):
that's not a pilgrimage. A pilgrimage in a true sense,
if it's really worked well, first of all, it's answering
a deeper call. It's not the call of can I,
you know, where can I find a respite? Where can
I have a moment of you know, a break from
my reality? So can so I can recharge, so I
can go back to the rat race. It's a disruptor,
a disruptor of what. It disrupts everything from your ordinary

(46:28):
routine to your mentality, how you see the world, your worldview,
to your own identity, the way that you hold yourself
and see yourself in the world.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
A true spiritual pilgrimage.

Speaker 5 (46:40):
Is designed to disrupt the ordinary routine and the centrifuical
force or the gravitational pull of your ego identity. And
so you know, for me why it's so therapeutic is
we live in a culture where we try to gather
all the accouterments oriented mostly by ego boosting. You know

(47:04):
how many likes, how many fans, how good am I doing?
How slender am I know? How many cars? What's my accolade?
It's and comfort. We're also an extremely comfort oriented civilization,
and we have done incredibly well at doing this. We
have the highest tech. You can walk into a smart house.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
Where your car and your house know exactly the perfect
temperature that's going to be perfect for you, so you
can sleep and have a beautiful meal on delivery and
put your tootsies up and watch the television and anesthetize yourself.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
Pilgrimage is designed instead to absolutely disorient and disrupt and
to change the value system. Maybe the world isn't just
about me. Maybe the world isn't just about collecting. Maybe
the world isn't just about comfort. What are some alternatives? Well,
the ancient traditions had a different paradigm in worldview, and

(48:06):
pilgrimage was situated within those worldviews and acted as a
kind of crucible or a method for realizing different kinds
of qualities and different kinds of attributes and having different
kinds of experiences. So or, for example, in the Buddhist
tradition of pilgrimage is about awakening. Sounds wonderful, doesn't it.

(48:27):
Let's go on a pilgrimage for awakening. Well, you can't
have awakening without having what's called And these are more
archaic terms, and we can find updated terms for them.
A pilgrimage, at least in the Buddhist tradition, is just
defined by two things. The orientation towards a spiritual destination
with the aspiration to awaken your mind.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
Sounds wonderful. How is it done?

Speaker 5 (48:50):
It has two wings, just like a bird that flies.
One of it is called purification and the other one
is called accumulation. So what you're trying to do is
you're trying to disrupt the status quo of your identity,
which is fixated on meanness and comforts, and it has
very it has a whole structure of defense mechanisms and

(49:11):
avoidance patterns that wants to look at the kind of
ugliness inside of you and the hedonic urges and the
aggressive urges when you go on pilgrimage, And why it's
therapeutic is that you work on taking a healthy look
at yourself and taking responsibility for those impulses that are
actually creating your and other people's dissatisfaction, having an honest

(49:33):
inventory and accounting and wanting to work on that.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
So, if you don't like the word purification, which.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
Comes out of old world kind of archaic language, even
though it's right there in psychedelics, you could look at
it in terms of processing.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
You could be working.

Speaker 5 (49:47):
On processing trauma, processing grievances, processing places where you're stuck,
processing places where your routine eyed sense of identity is alcified,
processing knee jerk reactions and imputivity. What's the other side
of it, accumulation.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
Don't like that.

Speaker 5 (50:04):
Word, what about a culturation or cultivating good attributes cultivating
open heartedness, cultivating resilience, cultivating generosity, cultivating patients, all those
attributes that would actually help your sense of self extend,
expand become more resilient, become more empathic, become higher IQ.

(50:25):
Then all these things together, the deterioration or the dismantling
of the old structures the building of the new based
on this ethos of awakening, Then you can see that
this is an intervention. This is just like this is
the old world's remedy for the dark Knight of the soul.
But short of the dark Knight of the soul, this
is a way of transformation. Pilgrimage is a literal transformation

(50:49):
in motion. It's not just transformation on your meditation cushion.
It takes advantage of the fact that as you orient
towards spiritual destination and you've gone to many there it
be Egypt or Peru, or Nepal or Bali, there's something
in these sacred sites. Just a few months ago, I
was on the Camino de Santiago in Spain, Okay. This

(51:11):
is a thousand year old pilgrimage route that heads towards
Santiago to Compostella, where.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
There is a grand.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
A grand cathedral. There chapel that houses the relics of
Saint John or is it Saint James, I can't remember exactly,
but either way, one of the top three disciples of Christ.
And so all of that, what does that mean? It
means for a thousand years, pilgrims made great efforts walking

(51:43):
in some cases barefoot, in some cases with very sparse conditions,
in some cases, through torrential weather in some cases, for
many months along route, in order to process there. At
that time, in a Christian metaphor, in Christian ethos, it
was in order to atone for sin, but also to

(52:04):
connect with the divine and to accentuate and amplify their devotion.
And so what happened is that over a month or
three months, or six months, however long it took them
to get to their destination, they were actively and voluntarily
engaged in a process of self transformation. By the time
they hit the destination of Santiago to Compastella, they had

(52:24):
already transformed. It wasn't just the arrival at that place.
Although if you go to Abados, or you go to Dandera,
or you go to Machipicu.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Or you go to Bugaya.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Those places are filled with power. They have a long legacy,
They have a collective ethos of shared energy and vibration.
You could feel it in the ground. I have this
really interesting observation on my Comino to Santiago pilgrimage, which
I want to share with you because I was absolutely
blown away. I had a group of twenty people joined
me for this long trip. We were going one hundred

(52:56):
miles in two weeks, which is approximately twelve to fifteen
miles seven to eight hours a day of walking. These
were people who I had no connection with. They were
complete strangers when we started. When we ended, it was
a completely different picture. But one of the observations I had,
which was incredible, was that by the first order of
the trip, half of the cohort were experiencing or were

(53:22):
deepening ass life for Gressia, past life memories. And I
wasn't anticipating that. But I put two and two together
and I thought to myself, No, yes, of course, we
can say that this is a self selected group of
people who had volunteered for spiritual pilgrimage. But on the
other hand, there's something about the path, There's something about

(53:43):
the terrain in which thousands and thousands and thousands of
oriented pilgrims over centuries have imbued that space with a
kind of energetic charge that when you go with the right,
right intention, something shifts inside of you. That might not happen.
And if you're just at your local cafe in France,
or your therapist's office in New York City, or at

(54:05):
the beach in the Bay Area, it might not happen
because those places don't have the same kind of energetic charge.
This might I've never been to Egypt, but since you
have a lot of people that are interested in Egypt
in your in, your in your in your fan base,
you you can't deny that going to those places has
a kind of energetic signature all of its own. Well,

(54:27):
what happens to the human psyche in those places, Something
very deep and unpredictable is touched and is amplified and
is augmented. So what if you go with a spiritual intention,
open minded, I don't know what's going to happen, but
whatever happens has meaning. Yeah, suddenly we were putting pieces
together on long walks. I was almost doing psychotherapy at

(54:48):
the back of the line with people who were It
was awesome. It was like people would come talk to me.
We had there was no And see this goes back
to the question you asked me about being confined in
New York City. I was confined brick and mortar. I
was confined by forty five minute sessions. I was confined
to just getting people working well back to the office
so they could come back into my box and out

(55:10):
to their box, back to my box, band aids and
here on the comino, I had hours of time, no pressure,
an absolutely beautiful vista, a trail imbued with meaning of centuries,
following a path oriented by a spiritual inclination. People would

(55:32):
come and just converse with me, or I would converse
with them, or they would converse with each other, and
things were being activated and they were oriented. Not to
dismiss them as symptoms as craziness, but as as opportunities.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
This is both the.

Speaker 5 (55:46):
Outer pilgrimage and the inner pilgrimage combined. The outer pilgrimage
goes to a sacred destination and which is imbued with
all kinds of meaning and opportunity. You could get lost,
and that's that could benefit you. You could find what
you're looking for, and that could benefit you. It's all
the matter of how you're oriented, but also an inner pilgrimage.
What gets stirred up is not an obstacle, is an opportunity.

(56:08):
Can you go deeper? Can you go deeper and deeper?
Can you go deeper to the places that you're not
familiar with, the places that scare you, the places that
are unknown to you? Can you start listening to a
new way instead of being oriented five senses outward, what
about oriented five senses inward? What does the inner landscape
have to teach us? These are all the questions about pilgrimage,

(56:30):
which I'm so fascinated with. I'm taking so much of
your time. I'm not.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Every year, and I got one coming up in Guatemala
that is dealing with shaman and you need They're telling
us that you need to set the intention ahead of time,
to set the setting.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
Yes, and the dieta and the prescriptions or before you
even get on the trail or into the ceremony are
part of the preparation. And they would fall into the
Buddhist terminology a part of the purification starts early. So
they may ask you, of course you know all this,
but your listeners they may ask you to change your diet,

(57:11):
change your lifestyle, maybe abstained from sex, maybe routine eyes,
more your sleep pattern, you know, maybe not interact in
ways that are terribly aggravating or upsetting to your mind.
What they're asking you do is not only cultivate the
outer conditions or circumstances for a breakthrough, but actually treat
your inner environment as part of the remedy and recipe

(57:33):
for for awakening. And so a diet, a lifestyle change,
and attitude adjustment. I love that attitude adjustment. We need,
we all need an attitude adjustment. They may happen, we may,
It may happen a month before you even set foot.
So then when you get there and the shaman invites
you into ceremony, you're well intended, you're well oriented, your

(57:56):
body is receptive, you've you've dissolve all some of the
obstacles already you are, and listen, it's not easy to
do those things. When you change your diet, even if
you stop using sugar or eating meat, and that's something
familiar to you. What happens, Cliff, what happens to you?
You get irritated, you get angry, you start having upsetting feelings,

(58:20):
You have maybe disrupts your sleep pattern, maybe it triggered.
All of that is not secondary. That's part of the journey.
How do you show up for that? How do you
relate to that? What does that teaching you? Maybe it's
not all cognitive, and maybe it doesn't all make sense,
But your body is going through purifications, it's launching off
things that weren't, you know, toxins, So it's all meaningful.

(58:44):
It's not arbitrary.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Oh I didn't.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
There you go, You're good, it clicked right where you
were finish.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Go ahead, we'll clean it up.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I'm sorry. I was just saying.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
I was just saying that the preliminaries for going to
ceremony or going on pilgrimage, it doesn't necessarily need to
make cognitive sense. We often are looking too much for
an explanation. It can just be the body has an
opportunity to throw off toxins, the psyche has an opportunity

(59:21):
to throw off dreams, memories, traumatic patterns, and habits release energy.
If we volunteer for that and it's held in a
safe container. Maybe it doesn't always make sense. I mean
trauma therapy, for example, you can have a shard of
experience come up in a completely anomalous, unrecognizable way. You

(59:41):
just have get a moment of anger, and nothing in
your immediate environment seems to be congruent with it. But
if you understand it from a trauma lens, it's it's release,
it's it's and if you can just allow that something
in your psyche is actually taking authority or own ship
over your well being and saying, okay, now is the

(01:00:03):
time to let go of this thing so that you
can expand who you are and reclaim parts or fragments
of your being that you disavowed or let go of
or couldn't handle when you were younger or in a
different type period or a different context. This brings up
a bigger question. Maybe we can pin it. But Jung
had this wonderful thing to say about the psyche, which

(01:00:23):
is that the unconscious is not your adversary. The unconscious
is your ally. Cliff, this was revolutionary for me, man,
It was really revolutionary for me in my process. I'm
a kind of guy that wants to know, wants to
be in control. The world prize that it made a

(01:00:44):
scientist of me. I went to get a PhD. You
did too. It's like the world tries to get you
to be uber rational so that you can control your dominion.
And we learn some way through pop culture or other
ways that the unconscious, what's inside of us, is threat.
You know, keep vigilant about this is definitely freud. Keep

(01:01:05):
vigilant about what's inside of you because it could upturn
the apple cart. Jung had a different opinion about it.
Jung was, no, the unconscious is like a deeper mind.
It has a deeper knowing. It knows exactly when you're
ready to have an upsetting moment, because that's not designed
to derail you. It's temporarily designed to disrupt you, to

(01:01:29):
open you. And so Jung was always oriented towards what
are these anomalous experiences getting upset, being irritated, being angry?
What is the unconscious trying to teach us? What if
it takes you in a new direction? What if you
have a massive breakup, and in my case, what if
you have a massive betrayal. He would suggest that these
are all happening for our benefit and your son, for example,

(01:01:53):
what would Jung say about your son's depression? He would
say something like maybe, just maybe, maybe. He didn't put
it in a hundred percent guarantee. But just maybe these
symptoms are alerting your son to go on a bigger
adventure that his culture has limited to him to this
kind of bird path of going to high school, going
to college, and getting a job. And he knows at

(01:02:15):
some deeper level that's not going to work. And so
why not take a year off and go to France
or go to go to Peru, or why not study
something completely atypical and outside the norm. Why not follow
his intuition to learn how to sail around the world.
Why not, you know, go splunking in some cave in
southern France or learn agriculture in Bali. I you know

(01:02:36):
you and I would look at him and go, that's crazy.
You know you need to get you need to be
prepared for a job.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
No, that world is gone. That world is gone.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
So all I'm saying is Jung was really a master
at really validating something deeper in our intuition about going
on the journey, processing whatever comes up as food to
nourish your soul. Wow, what a great invitation. So I
loved it so much when I first came into contact
with that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I want to stay into that same area and discuss
which is where we go next, the living death and
then the rebirth. In other words, not physically dying, but.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Dying.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
I would think one persona am cultivating the new persona.
That's the language I will use. You're more eloquent in
your book on this whole process. But why is that
so important?

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:03:40):
Yeah, I mean, well, of course we can start with
the idea that the real death, the big d death,
is inevitable for all of us. Right, Okay, So if
I ask you, and since you do these great tours
to engage with shamans and wisdom traditions, they all know
this and forgot it totally.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
Yeah, so they they all know the secret to life
is that it's cyclic.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
We actually think that life is linear and that somehow
if we just you know, within the next five years,
we're gonna have a secret AI pill that goes into
our nervous system and gives us longevity. If we just
we're gonna bio hack our way to longevity. You know,
we're staving off the inevitable. We don't see that life
you can't have You can't have life without death. You

(01:04:30):
can't have joy without sadness, you can't have you can't
have integration without fragmentation. The dualities always come together. Your
Shamans know this. They come from a culture that never
lost this or is you know, even though modernity has
made its impact on them, the pockets, the bastions of
wisdom culture across the planet, whether it be in Bali

(01:04:52):
or in Peru or in India, they still understand this.
So one of the things about the Big d death,
it's it's also there's also metaphoric death within a lifetime, okay,
and you know, given the astrology, we're also going through
a civilizational death. This is another way it's important to us,
you and me and your listeners. There is the civilizational

(01:05:13):
death that we're amidst. If we go through it with
the same kind of fear response and avoidance response and
sort of hubris, it's going to crush us. If we
go through the big civilizational death with more of the
wisdom eye or the third eye of the Shamans or
the wisdom keepers, it'll be a much more graci gracious death.

(01:05:34):
Although it may be painful, it will have meaning, greater
meaning and will actually come out the other end all
the better for it. Right, So there are little deaths
across a lifetime, and then there's probably there's definitely a
big one, a big d death at the end of
a lifetime. Then there's the micro deaths, which is waking

(01:05:54):
up and going to bed every day, or you know,
moments of your day. Micro moments of your day could
be moments where you have these opportunities that we miss
all the time for reclaiming gratitude, reclaiming all, reclaiming compassion,
reclaiming you know, vitality, you know, if you're if you
if we just reset our mindset and our heart as

(01:06:18):
many times as we reach for our phone in a.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Day, that's a trip.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
But you know, the most the most important thing for
me is yes, the thing books like the Tibetan Book
of the Dead, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, although
both of these are probably not called that that's the
popular version. They're manuals for preparation. They understood life is cyclic.
They understand that how you go through a crisis and
how you go through the doorway or their threshold is

(01:06:55):
important because once you're in between worlds, and this is
a metaphor, there is the death phase. There's what's called
the liminal phase or the Bardo in Tibetan.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
And then there's the.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
Rebirth phase, the death phase. You have to go with
the heart of surrender. You can't buttress and and and
become rigid again in the face of death. You have
to surrender. You have to actually use consciousness and breath
and forgiveness to open and not contract during the stages

(01:07:29):
of dissillusion. Once you're in the liminal phase, which is
a symbolic phase for incubation, you they say there you're
assailed by all your past traumas and also your past
grievances and your past missteps, your regrets. So for example,

(01:07:52):
I've never been to Egypt, but there's iconography in Egypt
of one of the one of the gods holding a
scale where a feather balanced, the feather of truth is
balanced against all your negativities. And the Tibetans have the
same kind of imagery, and so it's a universal archetype
amongst the wisdom cultures. And I'm sure in your Shamans

(01:08:14):
would have something similar, which is you can't outrun your past.
You will have a moment of recognition and you will
have a moment of revelation, and you will stare nakedly
into the mirror of your past deeds and all are
you going to be ready for it? And Cliff I
get very animated during this moment because we're not only

(01:08:36):
going to have to do that individually and clean up
our damn mess, but we also have to do it civilizationally,
which is happening right now. It's happening right now just
as all the systems and institutions are breaking down the
underbelly the ugliness of our centuries of hedonistic and imperialistic

(01:08:56):
and misogynistic and exclusivity and all of that, all our
desirous clinging and our reaping and raping the earth and
a pillaging of the cultures, all of that is now
coming full circle and we can't outrun it. There's no
secret ivory tower that the rich folk are going to
build in New Zealand that's going to exempt them from

(01:09:16):
the destruction of their grandiose and asinine emissions. And we're
all implicated, and we're all complicit. And so that's the
grand scale Bardo, which is if you can tolerate that,
and you can take responsibility for that, and you can
atone for that, and you can learn from that, then

(01:09:37):
there's also the treasure, which is that you also have
an opportunity to redesign yourself, to use that learning as
awakening fodder, to mulch it so that you can redesign
yourself as more altruistic, more sensitive to the planet, a
more egalitarian leader, a better father, a better husband, a
better parent, whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
It might be.

Speaker 5 (01:09:59):
You can use that slap in the face, you could
take one on the chin to orient you to how
to do it better and how to redesign it. And
if that's possible for an individual in the liminal space
right before the reboot, it is also possible in the
long scale for civilizations to equally do that redesign civilization
to be more aligned with the incoming area energies of

(01:10:22):
the incoming ages. So we're right right now on a
cusp of a transition between two ages.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
We can hold on.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
For dear life and try to mimic the economic, political, energy,
medical sectors and institutions of the past, because we're terrified
of new innovation, and we will we will slam our
heads into into into into the wall. Or we can
let go gracefully learn the powerful lessons of what didn't

(01:10:52):
work so well, open to the deeper psyche and deeper
intuitive knowledge of where the energetic signatures of the incoming
hr and go that way with the most open heart
and decency. We need decency and dignity and humanity as
we orient towards the new civilization.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
with my guest today, Miles Neil, discussing his latest book,
Return with Elixir, will be right back. I guess today

(01:12:11):
is Miles' Neil. He has written a new book called
Return with Elix, or four Maps for the Soul's Pilgrimage
through Death and Rebirth. We were talking about the Hindus
Keli Yuga, which is what we're in right now, the
Yugas system, and my listeners are very well acquainted with

(01:12:33):
the Yugas.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
How do we pass.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Through it as elegantly as we can? And perhaps you
can give us some suggested technique from your book that
would Obviously we want people to read your book, but
you know, when you're dealing with a transition as brutal
as we're dealing with right now, where we have a
political nightmare, we have echo systems that are familed. We

(01:13:00):
have an economy that's up in the air. This is
tremendously distabling.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
Yeah, and will be for some time. Okay, so we're
talking about You know, I'm no expert on the Yuga cycle.
I learned just enough in my book to weave it
together with other maps of similar in ILK. So in
my book, I talk about cosmology as an infinite life
cycle with its own epochs. I talk about Jung's model

(01:13:30):
as a cycle of individuation in which you let go
of one identity, fall into the dark knight of the soul,
and reclaim a larger identity. I talk about Joseph Campbell's
mythopoetic cycle, which is a departure from an ordinary world
into an unknown world so you can face a terrifying
ordeal but also reclaim a lost treasure and return back
with a gift. And I talk about the Tibetan cycle.

(01:13:52):
The Tibetan book a cycle of death and rebirth, which
is a soul's journey through the stages of dissolution at
the time of death to enter into the sparto or
liminal phase, so that you can reboot yourself as an
altruistic angel or avatar to come back to the world
in a more purposeful way. All of these maps follow
this one alchemical motto that I discovered across the five

(01:14:13):
year writing of my book, which I want to share
with your listeners, and then return to the cosmological map,
because it underpins all these maps, and my hypothesis is
it underpins many more maps, not just the four that
I discovered. This alchemical motto is called salvee e coagula.
It solve ae is a Latin term that is a
cognate for dissolve. It means and and coagula is the

(01:14:38):
cognate for coagulation, which means to regenerate or to come
back to renew. And so this idea that you can't
just jump to the high point of the mountain. You
have to go through a disillusion. You can't just have
new life without death. And I say it with a
smile on my face, and I remember when I was
going through the death processes, and it is enough to
make me cry. And as it might be as a

(01:15:00):
father to see your own son go through the dark night.
It's not a laughing matter, it's not a one night thing.
It can be months, if not years, it can be
and for anyone listening, your dark night is your invitation

(01:15:22):
to rebirth. But it makes it no less terrifying and
no less painful. And you're and I want to speak
directly to your soul, you're not doing anything wrong. If
it's painful and it's long and enduring and it's unbearable,
it's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's it's this

(01:15:46):
is how it is. This is how the journey goes.
If you can just hold on, if you can just
open even that little bit, if you can just accept
the tumult, if you can just accept the fragmentation, if
you can just accept the not knowing and the lack
of ability to control your situation for one more day,

(01:16:10):
with a with A with a hint of faith in
the larger enterprise, that all of these wisdom traditions are
telling us that life is cyclic, and you will make
it through to the new dawn. You won't fall into
the abyss and be forever obliterated. It's an impossibility. Let go,

(01:16:31):
Let go, Let go, noble one, the hour has come
for your dissolution. The liminals doorway, this doorway into the
liminality is here go through with a noble heart and learn.
This is what the Tibetan Book of the Dead is
encouraging all of us to do it. It hurts like hell,
it burns like fire. It's so disorienting, you don't even

(01:16:55):
know who you are.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
But then in the.

Speaker 5 (01:16:59):
Midst of it, there, if you can just open, another
voice will appear to you, just like in the psychedelic movement.
The psychedelics is a microcosma of death, your psychedelic journey,
of all your preparation for one month, you get to
the shaman, you take the substance, whatever it might be,
the medicine, and you go through the same dark night.

(01:17:20):
You have to dissolve, You have to be confronted, you
have to be assailed. You might not know who you are,
where you are, why you are. And if you can
just open that, that is a huge teaching, a counter
Hubris teaching to open you to humility. Then humility sheds

(01:17:42):
you of all your knowingness and maybe then some drop
of wisdom from a deeper source can then fill your cup.
But we don't want to let go. We want to know,
We want to know, we want we want to be
in cont want to have it all together. So this

(01:18:05):
is the invitation, both at the large scale and at
the individual scale. The Yuga cycle as a metaphor is
saying that life is cyclic. We have reached from if
life was a clock of twenty four thousand years, twelve
o'clock at the top and six o'clock at the bottom.
The six o'clock is at the darkest night, and we

(01:18:26):
have just according to experts like Biboo Mishra, who you've
had on your show, incredible expert on the subject. Is
he basically recalculated tree you tek Shwarz from his Holy
Science book, which is the book that I used as
reference point. He's basically suggesting that sometime in May twenty

(01:18:49):
twenty five, we cross a threshold. I don't mind so
much whether it's here or there, to be honest with you,
because I look at it as a construct as a metaphor.
I don't look at it. I'm not trying to track
it as precisely as Bibou, although I think it's important.
But for me, all that's important is a couple of

(01:19:11):
things to alert my unconscious and your listener's unconscious to
the fact that time is cyclic and that we're on
a great and long journey together as civilization, and we
have reached our apex, our tipping point of decline, and
we're actually on the upswing, which is an incredibly hopeful

(01:19:35):
message we need to hear and we need to spread. Yes,
the systems are dissolving, Yes, the institutions are fragmenting. Yes,
we are all going to actually have to tighten our
belts and lose our jobs and like you know, the
party is over. Okay, we have to know that your

(01:19:58):
kids know it already, which is why either symptomatic, but
if they see it in terms of the bigger picture,
it provides orientation. Cliff, It's not just if you're too
close to the trees. It just can't be enough to
destabilize you. But if you can take us big step

(01:20:19):
back and see the long arc of the longer journey
and see, I'm a soul being reincarnated through time and space,
and I happen to be born at a time where
I'm at this absolutely pivotal, cataclysmic and creative opportunity, then
I have a place. I have a role to play here.

(01:20:40):
Your kids and my kids have a role to play,
and your listeners and you and me have a role
to play, and you're doing exactly. So you've been following
and I don't even know you, but i've your soul
has been guiding you to broadcast these wisdom messages and
take people on pilgrim images because it understood in this lifetime.

(01:21:05):
And I don't know what you were in a prior lifetime,
whether you were in marketing or your CEO or something
in entertainment. I don't know what it was, but something
called you into this role. And now it's prophetic because
now people need this content, this wisdom content. They need
access to wisdom traditions. They need to go on a
method of pilgrimage for disillusion and reawakening. And you're a

(01:21:28):
wisdom keeper for that. You're a bridge, your bridge to
old traditions. Your platform serves to amplify a message that
is underlying it is a message of hope. We yes,
we are in crisis, but there's a new dawn coming
and actually we can't just be passive observers. We have
to be active participants in it. That's the call. How

(01:21:53):
do we be active participants in the reconstruction of a
new world When we're talking about long time spances, so
we're entering from Collie into Duarpa, right, Okay. Dwarpa is
somewhere on the order of two thousand, between two thousand,
five hundred and three thousand years. Of course, Bibu can

(01:22:13):
give you the better math. I have the math in
my book, but again I don't. Again, I'm not so
precise about it, not because I dismissed the precision. I'm
just looking for swaths of mythopoetic interpretation. And so what
I like to say to people is we're actually on
the cusp of two transitions, not just the Coliyugo, which

(01:22:36):
there are four gold, silver, iron, and bronze and iron
we're dark, but also twelve epochs of the equinoc the
procession of the equinoxes. Okay, and this is a transition
between the Pissian age and the Aquarium age. That's a

(01:22:59):
that's also you know, these two match each other perfectly.
We're talking about the same long cycle of twenty five
about twenty four to twenty five thousand years, but within
it cut differently. The yugas are cut into four, the
astrological cycles are cut into twelve. What's the importance of them, Well,
they're the duration in which we are transitioning has a

(01:23:23):
particular energetic signature. This is what's important. The dwarp dwarpa
yuga has a particular energetic signature. It is a time
of I would distill it this way, and this is
not just me, This is treat U tek Shwaraz, my
source and also young knew this too. The age that

(01:23:43):
we're heading into, which is on the upcycle from the
dark night, heading all the way back to the high
point of civilization Satya yoga, our technological prowess will far
exceed our moral compass over the next two thousand years.
What we're trying to do is catch up morally to

(01:24:09):
our technological ingenuity. So this is just one signature which
your listeners can contemplate with the age of AI coming
and with the you know, with the with the Kurtzweils
sort of you know, moment of singularity amidst us in
our lifetime possibly right and AI, you know, general artificial

(01:24:31):
intelligence almost there, if not, depends who you talk to.
We're talking about power we have never conceived of. But
if you look at the Yugas and you talk to
people like Bibu and others that you've had on your show,
they'll all say that since time of recyclic there were
past civilizations that had unbelievable powers, unbelievable technologies. These are

(01:24:57):
not new things. We had telepathy and we have you know,
incredible actual machines. You go to Egypt and you can't
explain how you constructed it, and you wonder on a
linear map, how is it possible? Because we're brainwashed to
think that people were primitive and we're now we're at
the apex unbelievable hubrious. There were people, there were prior

(01:25:18):
civilizations and people who had unbelievable, unfathomable capabilities both internal
and external, at their capacity for us lift for us.
What we're trying to understand and how people can orient
themselves is have hope. We have to move through this
voluntarily and gracefully. We have to let go. It's going

(01:25:42):
to get bumpy. We've enjoyed a long stint of stability,
and now it's going to be unstable. We've enjoyed a
long period of coherence and now it's going to become fragmented.
We've enjoyed a long period of you know, institutional marketing,
you know, but it's all a deck of cards, it's
all a deck of cards. It's a it's a bubble
and it's about to burst, and it's death, and death

(01:26:05):
hurts and there's no way around it. And there will
be grieving, and there will be anxiety, and there will
be unpleasantness, and there may be civil unrest and all
the rest of it is coming. But if you can breathe,
and you can listen to the guidance of the wisdom keeper,
and you can coregulate in small pockets and small communities
and local communities where you gather around higher intelligence, and

(01:26:28):
you can open to this fact that what is being
called and asked of us in this moment is make
your life an instrument of ethics. That is, that is
now here's one analogy I'd like to offer your listeners.
When the big megalithic builders and builders of the great

(01:26:48):
cathedrals of Europe in the Middle Ages were building, the
Stonemasons would have a vision of a of a of
a temple or church or cathedral that would last one
thousand years that they would never see the end of.
They would never see the fruit of their labor.

Speaker 4 (01:27:10):
But they built.

Speaker 5 (01:27:11):
Nonetheless, they put stone together and maybe a generation would
die off and a new generation would come in to
complete the project. Right, and that is a great metaphor
for you and me raising our kids. We are coming
through the threshold now. One epoch is dying, another one

(01:27:34):
is emerging. Technology will far exceed our moral compass. Each
of us is being called to become more authentic, genuine,
aligned with virtue. We will be the foundation builders of
a new civilization that we won't be around in this
form to witness, but we will bequeath that to our

(01:27:56):
heirs and to our own souls to read, to reanimate,
or to reinhabit. And so ethics is our strongest play.
Clean up your life, have moral integrity. I say, you know,
most people when they take the wide angle view and
they see the institutions collapsing, they see the ecological system collapsing,

(01:28:17):
They see the absolute you know, hypocrisy and corruption in governments.
There's no one to trust anymore. It's you know, fifteen
minute cities, and everybody's trying to overstep and overreach and
control us. The propaganda over the over the airwaves, and
the deep deception is only going to get more tenacious

(01:28:39):
deep deception. And how do I know that? I know
that because the aquarian age has at least four signatures
that I write about in the book. If you want
to orient yourself properly to the future, the first thing
that we need is to understand that we're going from
a pyramid to a mandola. Is one of the archetype

(01:29:02):
or the energetic signatures of the incoming age. It means
that this whole thing of like Trump on top and
the rest of us lowly folk on the bottom, that's
about to upturn itself. But before it upturns itself, the
oligarchs on top are going to double down, which is
what's happening right now, in order for us to recalibrate

(01:29:22):
and re harmonize and align with the new civilization that's
coming in, which will be more architectically designed around a mandola,
where all of us understand that we have a we
are in a decentralized network where we all have we
all have innate power and dignity, and we all have
a role to play. That's one archetype. Another one is discernment.

(01:29:47):
Why is that important? Because we are going to live
through a time period where we are going to be
assaulted by deep fake everywhere. We will never know for
sure the truth, and if we only use our intellectual capacities,
we will be outsmarted by technologies and by bad actors.
And so we have to trust something. We have to

(01:30:10):
train and trust something deeper inside of us, the wisdom eye,
the third eye of intuition that can discern between augmented
reality and virtual reality and propaganda and all of that stuff. Anyway,
what I'm trying to say, and the other one is dignity.
There's this idea that we have lost our humanity. If
do you just look at the geopolitical situation between Israel

(01:30:32):
and Palestine. I mean, it's an absolute travesty of both
are losers on all sides, and we're completely we have
no solutions because we're completely looking at it in a
binary way. One's right and one's wrong. And this is
the same with our political system in the United States.
We're being played. We're absolutely being played. What we're forgetting

(01:30:53):
is that we have to work on ourselves. You don't
like the leadership, work on yourself. You think that everything
is corrupt, become more you think that it's all disharmonized.
Find small pockets where you can harmonize and try to
keep your own equilibrium, stop outsourcing, bring back the responsibility
right to your own body and to your own local
sphere of influence. And so, just to wrap this up,

(01:31:16):
because it's long winded, and I'm sorry for that, but
I get animated about these kinds of questions because I
think there are important questions for all of us, because
we're all in this together, and we're all experiencing the
same disillusion of our civilization. And there's one message that
came through in the book, and it's the one message
I'm repeating here, is as we live into the thresholds
of the new civilization, the most important thing that each

(01:31:38):
of us can do is try to clean up our
own mess and be as morally intact and morally upright
as possible. And if that means other people cheat us,
and if that means other people slap us on one
face the side of the face, if that means people
other other people steal with from us, we have to
do the higher We have to go the higher row.

(01:32:00):
That's the energetic legacy that we will leave.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
I love it amazing. I love this integrity, having the
integrity and keeping that as your mantle for the future.
The book's called Return with elixir. My guest today has
been Miles Neil. As we conclude, Miles, how do people
use your book? How would you like to see them

(01:32:27):
their use the material in your book?

Speaker 5 (01:32:31):
Well, okay, so the book is dense. It's four hundred
and forty pages. It's not like going to be a
linear read in a way, if I'm not to be cheeky,
but in a way, if you come away with this
notion that there's some deeper wisdom inside of you, listen

(01:32:51):
to that more than any book, including my own.

Speaker 3 (01:32:55):
Okay, if God, okay, because there is a lot to
cover in your book. You just did a brain dump
in that book, which is great because we get a
sense of where your your own personal journey and your
practice in seeing other people and their journey, which makes
it even more of a must read and also very insightful.

(01:33:20):
But again, would you suggest you just need to read
through it or.

Speaker 5 (01:33:24):
Take your time with it? I mean, pick it up,
look at the maps, start to see visually that we're
on a cyclic journey together.

Speaker 6 (01:33:34):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:33:35):
And also it's particularly suited for people who feel the call,
feel that buzz, feel that that are they're symptomatic, feel
that they're there's something as they say, as Morpheus said
in the First Matrix, he said, there's a thorn in
the mind. If you're a listener and you're you're on
your work wheel, or you're on your bird path, a

(01:33:56):
familiar path, but something underlying you and deep inside of
you is stirring. And recognize as there's a mismatch here.
There's something that they're not telling us. There's something that's
not apparent. There's something there's a disturbance in the force,
but you just can't quite get your hands wrapped around it.
Then this book serves as a doorway, and it gives

(01:34:18):
you four doorways. You like cosmology, you can go through
the Largest Map. You like mythopoetics and stories and narratives,
you can go through the Campbell Map. If you like psychology,
you can go through the psychology portal of Jung. And
if you like spirituality, you can go through the Deep
Science of rebirth of the Tibetan tradition. And if you're
someone like your listeners who may go to Peru and

(01:34:39):
they like shamanism, or they like alchemy, or they like
this one, you can go through the universal map that
we describe together in our conversation of solve a coagula,
and you can put yourself in the deepest understanding that
there must be a dissillusion and a complete fragmentation in
order for there to be a reclaiming and a renewal,
and that we're right there on the cusp. We are

(01:35:00):
right there on the cusps, so pivotal. So take your
time with it, trust your intuition with it. See is
that it's its own pilgrimage. You have stories in there.
You have Young in Theirs, Young's breakdown to break through,
you have christ breakdown to break through, you have Buddha's
break down to break through. You have my clients breakdown
to break through. Tell your son that a breakthrough is

(01:35:23):
a breakthrough, is imminent because he's breaking down. Encourage him
to keep going, Encourage tell him that he's not crazy.
Tell him that it's a mismatch for his society and
his civilization, and that you know there are cultures that
would understand him and validate him and support him through.
This is a vision quest. This is a long enduring

(01:35:43):
vision quest without substance for him, and that he will
be okay, and that he will be a contributor. And
I want your son to know that. I want everybody
listening to know that, and I want us to remember
that we're all in this together. That the worst thing
that we can do is fragment and like you know,
feel appssolutely lost in the corner of our mind. This

(01:36:04):
is a time for us to come together.

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
Yeah, yeah, great stuff, Neil. Really pleasure having you on
the program. I'm going to have to have you back.
How can people learn more about you? Give us your
social media tags and perhaps upcoming pilgrimages that you're leading.

Speaker 5 (01:36:20):
Okay, so I mean Miles, Neil, m I L E.
S N E A L E is my website and
all my tags both on YouTube and on Instagram. Those
are the only two that I use for social My
uphill coming pilgrimages that I'm excited about. I will be
leading a tour to Bhuton with my spiritual master, Guessha
tenzenz Opa, Tibetan master. We're going to buton to the

(01:36:42):
power places and caves of Patma Sambaba to do tantric
visualizations in these sacred caves and landscapes. That's in October
twenty twenty six. Is a big year for me because
you got me at the right time. Cliff, at the
beginning of the show, I told you how valuable and
important I think pilgrimages are, and so I'm pivoting out

(01:37:03):
of one on one work, although I still do a
little bit of it into pilgrimages, leading pilgrimages as you do.
I'm going to have four of them next year. One
is to Java for conscious leadership. Java is in Indonesia
where they have these great temples and the largest mandola
on the planet. We never get to talk about it,
but since you do all the ancient civilizations, the Silundra

(01:37:26):
dynasty built the biggest mandola on the planet in jet
and central Java, and I'll be doing visualizations there for
conscious leadership, altruistic training people how to become not just influencers.

Speaker 4 (01:37:41):
But agents of change.

Speaker 5 (01:37:43):
Then I'll be going to Japan to the Komano Koto Trails,
which are the sister trails of the Camino de Santiago
in Spain.

Speaker 4 (01:37:50):
There are two.

Speaker 5 (01:37:51):
Pilgrimage routes, both a thousand years old, that are World
Heritage designated, and so I'll be going to Japan. I'll
also be going to some valley in the High Himalayas
of Nepal with my teacher, and there's one other to Turkey,
which is at the end of next year. I know
a lot of people are going to Turkey because they
like go Beckley Teppe. I'm going actually with two other healers,

(01:38:15):
so we're going to do a healing journey in Turkey.
I'm going to have a Balanese alchemist and an Arivedic
physician and myself a Buddhist psychologist, going to reanimate, not
just look at these ancient sites. Okay, this may be
one of the difference between my clinical background. I'm not
a historian, I'm not an archaeologist. I'm not an anthropologist.
I'm a healer. So I've collaborated with two other healers.

(01:38:38):
We want to go to Turkey and we want to
go to places like Kapadokia and to go Beckley Teppe
and to Pergamon where they have the Esclepeon. I know
you had Sarah James on your show once and I'm
a big fan of Sarah James. She and I recently
went to the Esclepeon in Greece. I'll be going to
the Escleppeon in Pergamon, Turkey and doing and reviving it
with Tibetan healing techniques. So we're not just inviting travelers

(01:39:01):
to look at the stone and to and to have
awe about our ancient ancestors, but also to move forward.
How do we reactivate these sites, Cliff, this is very important.
How do we reactivate them so that they're ready to
initiate larger populations of people for the new world that's coming.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
Yeah, I love that. Wow, you're busy next year? Fantastic.
I wanted to ask you, do you have a YouTube
channel with.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
Some of yesogs.

Speaker 5 (01:39:29):
Yeah, all my talks are up there, the whole I
did a whole free series of twelve lectures, their long
format lectures, you know, so in the age of people
liking three minutes, I don't have a lot of short
form guard content, but I alert people to go find
the Crucible. The Crucible was my twelve part lecture series
which is about the book. So if you want to

(01:39:50):
do a study the book with me online for free,
you go to my YouTube channel, you find the Crucible.

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
It's a twelve part series.

Speaker 5 (01:39:58):
Yes, they're two hour long format, but they take you
through all four maps. So I have three classes on
the Yuga cycle. I have three classes on young, three
classes on Campbell, and three classes on Tibn Buddhism, and
we and we do meditations together, we talk about the content.
It's much more experiential. So I invite people to join.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:17):
The last question is did you you had your book
published by Inner Traditions and I love those guys. Did
they have you read it through audible?

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Are you on audible?

Speaker 5 (01:40:27):
I'm not on audible, but Cliff, do me a favor
and talk to people at the Talk to the people
like they're.

Speaker 1 (01:40:33):
Gonna put this that you gotta you're.

Speaker 5 (01:40:35):
Great, Tell me that, tell them that be an advocate
for me.

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
I'm ask them.

Speaker 5 (01:40:40):
I would love to do my own voice on my
own journey. I can't imagine somebody else doing that. I mean,
it's so personal. My book is so personal. So Cliff,
do me a huge favor, do.

Speaker 4 (01:40:49):
Do me a solid. We'll try it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
Hey, Miles, fantastic having you on. Let's do it again.
It was really my pleasure meeting you. Thanks for joining
me today.

Speaker 5 (01:41:03):
Well let me just say say before you jump off, Cliff,
thanks for all you do. I'm sorry I didn't have
enough time to talk about you and all the wonderful
things that you do. I know that your listeners already
know that, But for me, I'm sincere in my aspirations
and I feel very connected with you. We do similar
things for the same purpose on the planet at the
little time. For that, I thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:41:22):
All right, man, chairs, Wow, that was amazing. I really
got caught up in that interview. You may have noticed
because I'm not saying a lot. I'm letting Miles carry
the energy, which he did very, very well, and there

(01:41:46):
was a lot to unfold in that interview. I hope
you enjoyed it as much as I did. His book
has just come out return with Elix or you can
get it wherever you get your books, digital books too,
And I wanted and I didn't know this, he hasn't
done it, and uh he hasn't recorded it in uh audible.

(01:42:08):
It should be recorded, and he agreed because he's got
a good narrative type of voice, and so I reached
out to his publicist and recommended that. So it's funny
because I just don't have time to read. And it's
really a challenge when I get somebody who sends me

(01:42:28):
a huge.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Book and they're like, please read this, I'm like, I
don't have time. I just don't have time.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
So I definitely want to have Neil back on the
program in the future because that was great.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
We have our own tours coming up. We have a
Sacred Pyramid tour in Guatemala December first through the twelfth.
The beauty of this tour is that we will be
with Maya Shaman and we're going to be doing a
number of different ceremon But when you're around these daykeepers,
these are the clindical experts. The real calendar watchers are

(01:43:07):
called daykeepers, and they are telling us and working with
us andbuing us with this energy of these sacred sites.
For all the details on this tour, go to earth
Ancients dot com forward slash tours and register if you can.
We're about half full. We're only taking about twenty maybe

(01:43:28):
twenty five people. I don't know if I want to
go that far because we're we want to stay in
a bus and get around comfortably, so I think we'll
cap it at twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
For all the.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
Details, again, go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours.
If you have questions, send me an email to earth
Ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail
dot com and ask me anything you want and I'll
try to get back to you. I want to also
mention we just listed our twenty twenty six early your calendar.

(01:44:01):
We're gonna be in Egypt for a megalithic tour. It's
gonna be April twenty eight through May tenth. This is
not to be missed because we're with Mohammed Embraheim and
he is another one that kind of gets into the
sacredness of these ancient sites. We'll do some meditations and
we will definitely see some of the most amazing sites

(01:44:24):
in all of Egypt, if not all of the world,
including the megalithic statuary that I'm fascinated with and you'll
have a chance to see.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Up close and personal.

Speaker 3 (01:44:34):
That's also listed on the website. Go to Earthacients dot
com forward slash Tours. All right, that's it for this program.
I want to thank my guest today, Miles and Neil
by the way, he was coming to us from Ballet, Indonesia.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
That's a long ways away.

Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
As always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster and
Basel Pavey.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
You guys rock.

Speaker 3 (01:45:02):
All right, take care of you will and we will
talk to you next time.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
M count

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