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September 3, 2025 71 mins
Lucid dreams stand out from ordinary dreams in the meaning and clarity that they can bring us. Learn to control these dreams and access times, places, and information usually hidden from our senses. In Programming Your Lucid Dreams, discover accessible exercises and insights that will enable you to self-direct your lucid dreams to their fullest potential.

Learn how to
- understand spontaneous lucid dreams,
- analyze your dreams and keep a dream journal,
- cultivate body and mind to prepare for lucid dreaming,
- map your dream destination and create dream guides through visualization,
- use lucid dreams to transcend space and time,
- ensure your safety while lucid dreaming,
- understand lucid dreams through the arc of the hero's journey,
- use lucid dreams to achieve goals, and
- share thought forms with others and join others in the dreamscape.Learn what to expect in the lucid dreamscape and how to use this liminal state of consciousness for transformative change and profound insight.

Von Braschler is the author of more than a dozen books on dreams and consciousness expansion. He is a former award-winning journalist and former faculty member of the Omega Institute for Holistics Studies in Rhinebeck, New York. He lives and works in the San Juan Islands off the coast of Washington state.

https://vonbraschlerwebsite.com/





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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Destiny.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. You know, I love
my phone and I love the Internet. I can't get
enough of TikTok and these other streaming formats. And they're
time They're very time consuming. You can watch the YouTube
or TikTok for hours. I'll sit in front of the

(00:38):
my phone for hours just watching the latest postings. And
you know, I mean, I have my own postings for
Earth ancients, but what is going on with that? It's very,
very time consuming. And I got to tell you, I
think it's beginning to affect people because people.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Don't dream anymore.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
And this is really critical factor mental health. If you
don't have good dreaming consciousness, if you're not able to
sleep long enough and get deep sleep rem sleep rapidi
move is sleep, then your ability to go deep into
your dreams is really compromise. Hey, this is Cliff, your
host of Destiny, and this week we're talking about lucid

(01:17):
dreams and the ability to dream in a level where
you are processing your day, you are looking to the past,
you're looking to the future, and you are coming up
with problem solving dreams that you can use in your
current reality and for a number of years I've had
a dream journal where I am able to write down

(01:42):
dreams that I had and shift into deeper dreams. But
I am not one to do lucid dreaming. And this
is something that's very critically important. And lucid dreams require
a deeper level of rest, and I don't think I
am quite ready for for lucid dreams yet. But I
will say this in our guest program, who is a

(02:06):
new book, will talk about techniques where you can actually
rest during the day and as you're resting, you're shifting
into that deeper level that where the lucid dreams actually
began to unfold. The other thing that is of great
interest to me is that today we talk about our

(02:26):
ancestors dreams and ancient people two thousand plus years ago,
the Babylonians and the Egyptians were able to dream and
actually chronicle their dreams. In fact, in some cases the
dreams were used as prophecy for events that were coming,
for personal events and so on. It also crosses over

(02:51):
into the indigenous side of things. Dream dreams were used
as forms of vision quests. You want to to a dream,
and because they didn't have the interference of all this WiFi.
I think people in past generations were able to sell
into the possibilities of having dreams and actually dreams that

(03:15):
were lucid dreams. And this is what we're trying to
talk about today, is getting into the state where you're
having hyper hyper consciousness dreams, where they're so real it's
like you're actually living in a reality. And some people
think that lucid dreaming actually is a shifting into a

(03:35):
higher reality, not necessarily a higher reality, but a higher
level of consciousness that you can actually unfold. So we're
gonna look at a number of aspects of dreaming today
and give you step by step guidance of walking into
and shifting into higher levels of dreams. So today we're

(03:58):
talking about dreams and the program is programming your lucid dreams.
And my guest is von Breshner. The Earth Ancients Guatemala

(04:24):
Temple Tour December first through the twelfth.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
As you know from my work, one of the main
functions of the tembuls is out of state, so we
can really reprogram morself, We can manifest different things in
our lives. There is also an opportunity for healing, so
there is so much that we can do when.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
We have access see combining, you know, the left and
right brain hemisphere approaches, or the more masculine semine.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
If you like.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Knowing the science, doing measurements, understanding the electromagnetism and the
spiritual technology of these temples, and then having the experiential side.
I'm doing all the spiritual work offside.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Is just like a very holistic, complete way to interact
with the temples.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's doctor Lydia de Leong, our host for the upcoming
Sacred Pyramid Tour in Guatemala December first of the twelfth.
This is a rare opportunity to work with harmonics and
the energy behind these pyramids. We only have a few
places left. This is going to be a very rare
opportunity to engage with the local shaman archaeologists who have

(05:39):
been studying pyramids for decades, and opportunities not only to
interact with the pyramid to lyrics that are available, but
also sit, stand, walk and climb a variety of pyramids
throughout Guatemala. For more information on this wonderful tour, go
to earthacients dot com forward slash Tours looking for the

(06:01):
banner and click it. If you have any questions whatsoever,
Send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the
number fourth LETTERU at gmail dot com, and.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
I will get right back to you.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Join me on the special tour December first through the
twelfth again. For more information, Earthancients dot com Forward slash tours. Hey,
it's Labor Day weekend and that means getting together with

(06:35):
friends and barbecuing. Something else you might consider is a
bourbon on the rocks. I was recently introduced to Chattanooga Whiskey,
a Tennessee based distillery, and they're Bourbon ninety one. These
guys are alchemists too. They have a whole selection of
special blends that are just out of this world. They

(06:56):
age their bourbon in American oak barrel. This really adds
a smooth taste and texture to this bourbon. And I
gotta tell you, I can't get enough of it. I
can't keep it around all my friends When I have
a taste, it is just that good. Check them out
Chatnoogle Whiskey for more information. Go to Chatnooga Whiskey dot com.

(07:17):
For a bourbon so good, all you need is ice.
That's Chatnoogle Whiskey dot com. I have said I made

(08:00):
lucid dreaming now for over twenty years and have found
it fascinating. I can't say I'm an expert at lucid dreaming,
but today we have an expert. And the reason why
we're having the return of our guest is that he's
written a very very not only a very very good book,
but he actually touches some of the ancient versions of

(08:25):
lucid dreaming and we're going to hear all about it today.
My guess, my returning guest, is von Braschmeller, and he
is a I mean not only he's an author, but
he's written in a couple of very good books. The
book we're talking about today is called Programming your Lucid Dreams,
how to self direct dreams to achieve your goals and

(08:48):
access hidden knowledge and lucid dreaming, and we'll learn more about.
To say, lucid dreaming is a bit more challenging than
simple dreaming, because when you're lucid dreaming, it's almost like
you're in a form with reality. And like I mentioned before,
I've done regular dreams and done dream journaling, but lucid
dreams are a different animal. And this is why we

(09:12):
have vn On so hey, welcome to Destiny.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
How you doing good?

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Thank you, Cliff, It's good to be back with you.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
All right, Vin, let's talk real quickly. What is lucid
dreaming over simple basic dreaming? Why is it lucid dreaming
so unique?

Speaker 5 (09:29):
Well, there's a long history of what we call dream work,
and this is serious streaming. This is dreaming in reality
and not simply playing back memories that you filed away
in your mind and you keep sifting through them. The
simple definition is that you're consciously aware of being in

(09:54):
the dream. Furthermore, you're consciously aware in the dream so
that you can react an act in the dream, as
an act of participant. In short, it's a learning experience.
And my approach to lucid dreaming, since I first had
one in nineteen eighty and long to have more, was

(10:16):
to what was to set up dreams as vehicles for
learning and exploring and reaching new levels of conscious awareness.
So I think the fact that you're consciously aware in
your dream and that you're empowered in your dream, that's
an important aspect because along with consciousness goes empowerment and awareness.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
So can you tell us or do you remember that
first lucid dream that you had, because you know, something
must have happened, either you were doing a practice, or
you had a trauma, or you were taking some psychedelics.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
I've never done that, and I never encouraged anybody to
take that short approach to what we'll call.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Your vision questing.

Speaker 5 (11:09):
Yeah, it is just a very short road, and it
can be a misleading road, as.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
You mean psychedelics taking yes, yes, as any of the great.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
Masters in the East would tell you, Yeah, you could
do that, but it's like better to throw them in
the river, you know, because they're not trustworthy. So anyway,
my first experience that I remember it like it was
yesterday in a sense. It was was in the winter
of nineteen eighty and I was snowed in on Mount Hood.
I might have said this on your show before, but

(11:45):
I'll get to the point. I was snowed in and
I had no power, I had no heat, I had
no plumbing. It was all frozen. I had no food.
My car was lost. I couldn't find it. I was
poking around with a long broom handle. I was totally
snowed in, and I said, you know what, that's okay,

(12:09):
I'll just start reading and meditating. And after a long
day of meditating and reading, and most of my books
were Eastern spiritual science, but not entirely, A lot of
were shamanic, I flopped back on my bed and I
hit a vertebrae, a high vertebrae. I won't say which one,

(12:31):
or everybody will try to do this because this does
actually trip you out.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
And I was off in a lucid dream.

Speaker 5 (12:39):
Now I know it was a lucid dream and not
just an unconscious mind floating, because it was I was
consciously aware.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
In the dream.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
I saw myself lying on the bed. I could accurately
see in detail everything below me that was physical. I, however,
was not physical. I was in a non physical energy
body floating above the bed.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Higher and higher.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
And I said, how can I go? And I said,
this is great. I've heard of this, I said, I've
read about this. So I start floating and I said,
can I go through the roof?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Indeed? I could?

Speaker 5 (13:20):
Could I go above the tree line? Indeed I could?
Could I go higher than the hundred foot fir trees
in front? Because I lived on mountain in Oregon?

Speaker 1 (13:29):
And I could?

Speaker 5 (13:30):
And I looked down and everything got dark and small,
and I thought, this is great, but I don't know
where I'm going. I don't know how to get there,
and I don't know how to react when I get there,
so I'd better go back. I hope I can go back.
And I said, how do I go back? And I
swear to God, Cliff, I thought of Dorothy and the

(13:51):
Wizard of Oz. I didn't click my ruby red slippers,
but I said, I thought, there's no place like home.
And I was instantly back in my body, which has
always told me you can always go back to your
physical body because you're karmically, energetically magnetically connected to your body,
and so yeah, you just think back to your body,

(14:13):
in your back, there's no worry. So after that I
started to read really in great detail all of my
books on yoga, and I thought, how do the great
masters leave their body? How do they have these profound dreams?

Speaker 1 (14:29):
And I found out it.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
Wasn't just them, It went back thousands of years. I
found out there were like three dozen references in the
King James Bible, Old Testament and New Testament where people
would have profound dreams. These were vivid dreams, colorful dreams,
detailed dreams, impactful, meaningful, powerful dreams of significance, and they

(14:54):
weren't just memories. Now a common dream is just a
memory that you can't shake out of you your head,
and you can't get that song out of your head,
and it's because your body really isn't but the sleep,
and you're just kind of playing the old tunes over
and over in your head. And you couldn't resolve these
questions when you were wide awake. Now that you're half asleep, well,

(15:18):
it's even worse. So these are often called nightmares or
night sweat dreams. Common dreams sometimes interesting, usually perplexing and troublesome.
But I had this wonderful dream, and I thought to myself,
how on earth do people ever return to a dream?

(15:40):
And how do they how do they expand on the
dream and continue it once they've returned to it? And
I started reading Deep, Deep, Deep into it, and I dream,
I dreamed, I sort of like a dream. I started
reading that there was a great interest in early yoga

(16:04):
and consciousness training. In fact, you might consider all of
yoga consciousness training on three levels body, mind, and spirit.
So you look at the my favorite book, the Yoga
Sutras of Patanjuli. It is clearly outlined in three steps body, uh,
spirit and mind, and I think mind mind a second,

(16:28):
and spirits last. And in short, it trained you how
to achieve postures and which we know is hatha yoga,
which most people think is the way to get fit
and stretch.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
But it's more than that.

Speaker 5 (16:40):
It's preparing yourself. And then you're preparing yourself. Cousinata said
the same thing, prepare the physical for the outward journey.
So the thing is then you then you go into
the greater The greater journey is metaphysical and and this
is kind of the second part of the book. And
then if you want to go all the way through

(17:01):
all those hundreds and hundreds of pages of you know,
which are hundreds of years old, then you get to
the last part, which is magical. And that's when I
hit the old mind. Because there are people who practice
yoga training to the point where and this is kind
of the area of the school of Raja Yoga where the

(17:23):
Samadi mystics begin to train their young ones how to
have profound experiences and journey beyond what we would say
is is.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
My time here? And now you know?

Speaker 5 (17:44):
So they the first thing they will teach the Samadi
students is how to do lucid dreaming. And when they
get really good at lucid dreaming, then they'll they'll take
them deeper down the path of yoga training so they
can have great what what in some in and and

(18:04):
Shamanism will here described as the outer journey or the
vision quest. It involves getting into an altered state of consciousness. Uh,
that's why meditation works it very well. But I found
that for many people it's hard to meditate deep enough

(18:26):
to get into this what we call lucid dream state.
And for them, I I I suggest self hypnosis frankly,
because you know it's very similar. You know, you can
train the body to go to sleep, bring the mind
to go to sleep, and bring forward to your inner consciousness.

(18:50):
So when I started studying about the Samadi experience and
the students in the East, I was fascinated because there
was a huge tsunami that hit southern India and northern
Indonesia a.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Few years back. You might remember it.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
And I think it's called the Boxing Day storm, and
they worried the Samadi masters. They worried about their young
novices that they had put into lucid dreams. Now they
would they would set them off on their dreams in
the in the advanced students, while novices would go so

(19:32):
deep into a lucid dream that they would stay there
a long time and it was hard to bring them out.
In fact, they wouldn't try to bring them out, They
would wait for them to just come out.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I want to talk a little bit about the early
part of your book where you describe how the Babylonians
and the Egyptians actually recorded their dreams. How do we
know that those dreams are lucid dreams? Was the description
just incredibly detailed?

Speaker 1 (19:57):
This is?

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Is this how you incredibly yeah, incredibly detailed. You know,
these people, the Babylonians and Assyrians, they were extremely good
at keeping tablet records of what they did. Furthermore, a
lot of the dreams were have been trans transferred to
the Christian Bible. We know that there were Babylonian kings

(20:22):
that would would have dreams and they would be interpreted
at the time. I think I have an example here
of Joseph who Joseph actually interpreted a dream.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
Yes, uh. Pharaohs in Egypt would would have dreams. The
Babylonians would have dreams and and and and these are
often reported in it's far back in the bibleist genesis
that the idea that the god or or or a messenger,
perhaps an angel would come and speak to them. So

(21:01):
our earliest records, in fact, do come from ancient Babylonia.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, you mentioned Giglamesh. One give us an example if
you can, of one of his lucid dreams that perhaps
turned into a prophecy.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
So the adventures of Gilgamesh, who had more fun, well,
what a daring life.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
So so the.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
Story of Gilgamesh is is is like a dream diary.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
You know.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
He he recorded his dreams and they're told like, uh,
you know the Arabian nights. Uh he he there were
dreams of of building things and adventures and things that
he would see, the temples that would be built.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Directions.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
It's almost like in in in in in in our
corner of the world. Uh, a Native American Shamans who
would have visions and would report this to the people.
You know, it was like it was yes, it was
his personal dream, but they were like dreams of importance
to the community, like building a temple is a good example.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Do you think that Giggle Mesh and these other examples
were actually able to see in the future. Yeah, and
so they were tracking events and activities that were far
ahead of time.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think we see this today
we go in for some reason, after you know, more
than five thousand years of dream work with lucid dreaming,
we don't have a lot of respect in our culture
for lucid dreaming. And people will have prophetic dreams and
they'll say I had a dream of the future. I

(22:55):
dream what was going to happen in the future, and
they will laugh and it would be like amusing, you know,
But then when they come true, you know, we see
that this is happening. Yet today that people are going
apparently into the future and seeing what is going to
take place, coming back and reporting on it. So, yes,
this is one interesting thing about lucid dreaming. There is

(23:18):
no there is no fixed time. You can go back
in the past and into the future.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I want you to talk a little bit about Native
Indigenous people because it's almost like they are raised to
induce lucid dreaming rather than just dreaming. It's like you
have to have it's like part of a lifestyle. They
are trained to move into that lucid state, and so

(23:49):
they can begin having their own visions, their own as
you call it, ahead of time, Yequesse.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, these people are really chosen. They're special people. It
just between you and me, Cliff. It kind of bothers
me today that people are getting certified to be urban shamans.
I think it's it's interesting that a person could study this.
I mean, I think it's fascinating and I've certainly tried
to study it, but I don't claim to be a shaman.

(24:16):
I would never do that because these people were were
often selected not just who they were, their their their birth,
in their in their in their bloodline, but they often
were people who were lame. The idea of the wounded
healer makes a good representative for the people.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
The wounded healer is ideal to go out there and
fight the journeys uh into the land of the unknown,
because this really is a journey into the unknown.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
We're leaving the known world.

Speaker 5 (24:49):
To go into the unknown, like the hero's journey and
and and the The shaman then would be a person
who would be selected, not necessarily born and into the
job and then and then trained through a period by
the previous shaman to do this work and then trained
to do what to do to enter into great uh

(25:13):
trance like states which we might call like meditative states
or self hypnosis, whatever you want to think of it
a bit, but this would I had I had a
teacher who did this, and he would go into a
deep trance very much like a shaman. And and then
then uh this this this shaman would would go and

(25:35):
would would would go forward into the future or back
into the past to speak to as they would say,
talk to the ancestors. They would go into the future
to see what the future holds for my people, and
then they would come back and report, you know. But
but moreover they would teach this. They were teachers as well,

(25:56):
and they would teach others in the community and the
tribe how to do this vision questing on a personal level.
Your own personal vision quest might not hold great meaning
for the community, but it holds great importance to your
life direction.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, I like that. It's the earlier civilizations really cultivated
dreaming much more than we do today. How do we
know when we're because I dream, I dream fairly fair amount,
and I try to keep a dream journal, How do
we move into the lucid dream? How do we induce

(26:33):
the lucid dream?

Speaker 5 (26:35):
Yeah, I found that there were certain things that people
wanted to go into lucid dreaming were just not conscious
of or are doing. And one was they were not
preparing the physical body and mind to go into a
deep state of rest. And I call it a state

(26:55):
of surrender. And this requires a lot of internal harmony.
Think of the whole whole body. Picture the whole body,
the wholeness of you, which is body, mind, and spirit. Well,
when you go into a state of rest and prepare
yourself for a dream, it's not enough just to lie

(27:17):
down in your bed, close your eyes and drift off
because you're not because you're because you're still kind of
back floating next to the dock. See, you're not really
out there, you know. So so you need to actually
get deeper into sleep. You actually need to physically put
your will your body to sleep. So sometimes when I

(27:38):
find it hard to get there, and this was particularly
true for me in the beginning, I started cribbing off
of some of these wonderful books. And there are many
books that you can get on self hypnosis that you
you would actually physically focus on your attention on putting

(27:59):
your feet to sleep, your legs to sleep, your corso
to sleep, all like that, all the way to the
top of the d then finally putting the mind to sleep.
The final stage, which is very difficult, is to reach
a state of inner accord. Now in yoga training you
talk about the mind is the slayer of the mind.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
You know.

Speaker 5 (28:19):
That is to say, your inner consciousness must slay your
physical mind for you to have a greater conscious experience.
But this is this is I'm not faulting the translation
of the sandscript. I'm just saying that words can get
in the way of truth. You're not slaying anything. You're

(28:40):
reaching an inner chord harmony, a body minded spirit level
of of of attunement.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
And you.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
Need to assure the physical brain, your mind, that it's
going to be completely at rest, completely safe, and completely
rested while it surrenders control for a brief time for
a specific purpose, which is the dream, to your inner mind,

(29:13):
your inner consciousness. And then at that point then your
consciousness can come forward and take you on a journey.
Until that happens, you have a backseat driver, and that's
known as the little brain. Rending the whole big body.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
with my guest today, Von Brosler, discussing his newest book,
Programming Your Lucid Dreams. Will be right back. We're talking

(30:30):
lucid dreams today and how to program them effortlessly with
my guest today, Von Bristler. And this is a new book,
a step by step guide to opening to more lucid dreams.
Is the samadi's training from the yoga sutras that you're Uh,

(30:51):
it's the foundation of this work that you're presenting in
this book. But is that a course of meditation, because
I mean, I'm meditating for thirty years. Do meditators have
an easy time to get into lucid dreaming.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Or nobody does?

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, And that's the whole thing is that we're going
to talk about some of the exercises in a minute. Yeah,
that you suggest, But lucid dreaming is like a whole
different animal.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Yeah, and yeah, you have to be dedicated to it
and you have to actually work at it. Hence, traditionally
this was called dream work. It wasn't dream play.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Or idle moments.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
It was dream work and you you The ancient Egyptians,
for example, learning from the Babylonian experience, they quickly developed
dream temples, which was continued into the Greek, the classical
Greek Greek era, and into the Roman. Even that there
would be dream temples, there would be a dream attendant,

(31:55):
there would be be a dream assistant that you would
you would have somebody who would kind of coach you
and set up the experience. Now, setting up the experience
then means that you have a place that's completely safe,
quiet and secluded. It is a place of peacefulness. And

(32:17):
why this is to assure your physical self and your
and your physical mind, which is always concerned with your
safety and well being, that it's going to be okay
during this brief period, that in fact, it's going to
in in in exchange for surrendering a few moments of

(32:37):
somewhat control, that it's going to be it's going to
be rewarded by the greatest moments of restfulness and peace
that it's it's had in a long time. It's it's
holding a grip on you so tightly that we're all
kind of high strung.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
So if somebody has trouble sleeping, that's not going to
be a great candidate for a lucid dreaming because you're
you're talking about being thoroughly rested. Uh, and so any
fatigue is going to impede the whole processes in it.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
Yeah, you want to become really good. It's slipping off,
it's slipping away, you know, and to where it becomes
very easy to where you could actually do this in
a daydreaming. In daydreaming, where you can do this in
an awaking dream. You could do it in a chair,
you could, you could. You know, my power naps are

(33:32):
off and now like lucid dreams, you know they could
be very brief.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
It doesn't have to It doesn't have to happen at
night during your sleep mode, when you're reclining in you
in your bed. You could you could set it up
to happen anytime, but you must be willing to surrender
and open yourself up to the greater adventure.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Okay, before we get into some practical app implications, what
can we accomplish in a lucid dream? What are some
of the benefits of I mean, you talked about going
forward and in your book. You describe going back into
the past, which I find fascinating. But what are some
of the things that an active dreamscape lucid dreamer can accomplish.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
Yeah, I find it fascinating. I must confess. I use
it for a lot of little practical personal things. But
I know that there are great questions to be resolved.
And this is the journey of the soul. This is
where your soul, your inner consciousness, wants to take you.

(34:44):
It needs to go out there and discover. It needs
to be Odysseus on the raft. It needs to find
the golden fleece it needs, it needs the vision quest.
It needs to find answers for you. It needs to
take you out there to confront and open new doors

(35:06):
and reach new horizons. And this is what life is.
I mean, is life for you simply waking up and
drinking coffee?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, I mean this is my day. But there's more.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
There's more to it, you know, And I think all
of us know this, that this life well spent is
a life of growth and stretching. And so it is
with our dreams. I'm so big on getting people to
actually learn to do lucid dreaming because it is our

(35:43):
great opportunity for personal discovery and insight.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
You can't get.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
This anywhere else, anywhere else, and it's available to every
one of us if we're willing to set up a dream.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Can you give us a couple of examples of either
students or noted dreamers who have chronicled and journaled what
they have achieved in their lucid dreams. Perhaps somebody had
an intention for some activity or bits of knowledge, or

(36:18):
meeting somebody or and they had their lucid dream.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
Well, there certainly are in the East a lot of
a lot of visionaries that have reported their their journeys
into the other worlds, other levels of reality that you
know can be read about in Eastern spiritual science records. Uh,

(36:45):
the virginneys of Swami sacha Ananda have been very inspirational
to me. I think, I don't know if I should
bring this up, but but you can. You can also
look to in Ick and car you can find uh
that the original founder of that, Paul Twitchell writes about,

(37:09):
if not his own experience, that of his teachers were
likely maybe controversially, there are various people that have described
where they've gone and what they've seen. Some of them
are Native Americans like Sunbar very inspirational. I would I

(37:32):
would say that the writings of Costinata are largely based
on LCID dreams. If you if you had mentioned Carlos, Yeah, yes,
I'll never I'll never stop defending him because because his
first book he submitted to us at Llewellen. Uh and
I worked originally at Llewella in My first publisher was

(37:52):
jewellan And and it was submitted to us in our publisher,
Bless his soul, fine man. He said, not going to
publish a grad student's field research.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
That was his first book. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
And I said, are you sure I have a feeling
about this guy? He said, no, No, we start doing that,
we'll get all these these dissertations, and I don't want
to go that way. Well, okay, so now the rap
on Cosinata is that all of his subsequent I think
there were seven or eight books after the first, and

(38:28):
they were all massive mega sellers, right, yeah, okay, they
they all sounded a lot like the first one. And
in the controversy was that he couldn't substantiate that he'd
gone to Mexico except as a grad student to study

(38:49):
the effects of piote on on on natives in northern Mexico,
as he did for the first book book, which starts
the whole story right and then and then, but but
then the story continues as though he's continuing his teaching
with these with these, with these masters in Mexico. So

(39:14):
I would suggest to you that that Carlos began to
just have uh uh lucid dreams of going to Mexico.
You know, either that he was or he was just
inferring what what would happen next in the training. And
I think that would make him like one of the

(39:35):
greatest metaphysical writers of all time if you just had
this in his head and he could actually manufacture it.
It came from somewhere, you know. So I think that
at some point we have to stop thinking about who
is the messenger versus what is the message? The message
is quite amazing.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Do you have any students that have been using your techniques, uh,
and have reported back on their experience? Uh?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:07):
Various people have done this and they find it helpful
U two to to actually follow. It's a step by
step thing. Now, I don't I don't advocate that you
sit there and read to yourself when you're trying to
go into alusid dream. But you study the steps and
then you just do it, you know, And don't don't
worry if you're getting the steps on a sequence. I

(40:30):
do it all the time, you know. Just just know
that you know that there are various steps that would
be helpful and and and put them into the equation.
So yeah, I know a number of people now. When
uh I was out at the Omazing Institute in New York,

(40:53):
I I tried the technique as best I could, like
this somebodie students, UH did. And I wondered how long
I could take a group of people that had been
introduced to this over a period of just a week,
and then after the end of the week, put them
into individual dreams of their own choice, of their own direction.

(41:18):
In other words, I set them all up to have
their own individual dreams, and I left them all at
a room, and I wondered how many would like come
out of the dream and you know, ten minutes or
you know, thirty seconds or an hour, well, the whole day,

(41:38):
the whole day, you know, and it's like at the
end of the day, you know, I just said, like
these people have to like leave the building and we
have to lock it up, and somebody's been recording the session.
There's nothing said, you know, I said, God is and

(41:59):
we have to go to dinner. And so I said,
oh my gosh, what did I say to them when
I set them up? How do I bring them out
of it?

Speaker 2 (42:08):
So you able, you're saying, you're you're teaching a course
with the Omega Institute in New York. Yeah, and you
did a lucid dream. Yeah, of course all day, of course,
and people were systematically going into the lucid dreams. They
all went off in a dream of their own direction.
And they were gone there for several several hours.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Wow, and what?

Speaker 5 (42:32):
And I sat there and I studied them, you know,
I mean far across the room, mind you. But it's
like I noticed their eyes did in twitch, their toes
in twitch. Nobody coughed, you know, It's like they were
just gone. And finally I remember, and I went, I said,
returning to your bodies, now, returning to your bodies now,

(42:54):
because it was the last thing and I should have
remembered this that I said to them when I set
them off, and I said, you're going to stay in
your lucid dream until I call you back. I'll go
and I'll bring you back. And I said, oh my gosh,
I should have written it down right. So but then
then the funny thing is they all quickly, you know,

(43:15):
without standing up. They all you know, bent forward and
they're reclining positions because they were all on their back
on the floor and they were all alert. They're all
like wide awake. They weren't drowsy from having been sleeping
for hours. That was a strange thing. And they all
wanted to talk about what they've seen and what they've done,

(43:36):
because they all went different directions.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
I mean, let me just stop you for a second. Von,
I mean, you were the catalyst to to help the
help these people drop into a lucid state. I mean
that's you're talking. We're not talking about any psychedelics. You're
talking talking about your inducement. It was amazing. I mean,

(43:59):
what was it about that day that got you just,
uh as such a talented lucid dream facilitator.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
Oh, I don't think of talented at all. I mean
I simply spent the first few days telling them about
how to set up a lucid dream. And then and
I talked about how you can go back into the
past into the future. You could find the lost keys,
you could you could you could view your past life

(44:27):
or lives. You could look for lost people. Uh, you
could many things. You could look for answers. If you
had questions, you could you could search out answers.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
You know.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
I said, it's infinite what you do. So when I
set them up on this, I said, today is a
free day.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
You're all going to go your own direction.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
And they looked at me like, I said, you're all
going to select your own dream. And I said, you
all have been told and learned how to do this,
and now the test is you're all going to go
off on your own lucid dream. And and don't be
confined that you're just going to be roaming the grounds

(45:10):
here or you're just going to be in the here
and now. You can go into the past, into the future,
anywhere you want to go, you know, alternate realities, alternate worlds.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
I don't care.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
I said, you decide where you're going to go. I said,
it's going to be a dream of your own making
you decide where and when and what you're going to
dream about. And that's that's the only thing. And so
I got them started with with with you know, putting
them to sleep. You know, I took them that far.

(45:43):
And then then I said, and now the consciousness comes forward.
And I said, now, when the consciousness comes forward, you're
going to prepare an agenda of where you want to go.
You're going to visualize in terms of pictures, not words
or sounds, but pictures where you're going to go and

(46:03):
what you want to see and what you want to do.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I said.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
It could be sketchy, yeah, and it's your own map.
I said, but you need to form the pictures because
this is how thought forms work. This is how our
consciousness leaves us, leaves our body and go somewhere does
something with pictures. And so then then they were all off.

(46:28):
And it was amazing how quickly they all fell into
it and how long they all stayed into it.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Are you just saying that everybody in the in the
class was relaxed enough and went into a sleep state
and were able to jump into the lucid dreaming.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
It seemed to me that they were all deeply into
a dream. I could see no physical signs that any
of them were actually awake at any time during this
entire day, and it's like to this, I just remark
how amazing that was. But it also tells me how
anybody could do this, because there were nineteen people in

(47:08):
that room, not including me and the guy who was
trying to record nothing because it sounds and there was
a wide variation in the people. There was a fellow
there who was a professor of economics at New York NYU.
There was somebody who was a real estate broker. There

(47:32):
was somebody who was a dentist. There was somebody who
was an assistant stage manager Broadway or off Broadway. They
were all different. They were all really really different people,
you know. And I remember at the very beginning, we
had two people that dropped out. I said, this is
going to be a week and I'm going to show
you how to actually leave your body in meditation. And

(47:54):
before I got too far, we took a break and
two of them left and they went to square dance,
and I said, I lost two people. They said, yeah,
you said you were just going to teach them how
to meditate to leave the body. I said, well, there's
a little more than that, I said, but okay, I said,
square dancing is fun.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
You know.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
So we had nineteen people and and at the end
we had a couple people that showed up late because
they couldn't get there on day one, so we ended
up with nineteen. But yeah, I mean, it's it's I mean,
in a lucid dream, it might seem amazing that people
could be gone three days, as in the case of

(48:37):
the tsunami in India. It might be might be amazing
that all these people at this little retreat in upstate
New York could be gone all day in a lucid
dream with little training. But but, but, but anybody, anybody
can do this.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
And the amazing thing is time. Is it significant?

Speaker 5 (48:57):
Because in a lucid dream, you could be gone on
just a few clicks of the clock next to your bed.
But you've lived a whole lifetime. I've done that, and
you come back and say, I can't believe I was
gone five minutes.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I lived a whole life in this other world.

Speaker 5 (49:14):
And the reverse can be true.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
You know, I'm fascinating.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Yeah, time is meaningless in the spirit realm, and that's
what we're speaking about.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our
sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly with
my guest today Von Brageler discussing his newest book, Programming
Your Lucid Dreams, will rejoin you shortly. Mom. Broschelar has

(50:23):
written three books on lucid dreams. The newest one we're
featuring today is Programming Your Lucid Dreams. And we're getting
into a step by step program that will guarantee you
lucid dreams. Let's talk real quickly on about and you've
been giving us the step by step setup for the dreamscape.

(50:46):
So the first thing is a quiet space obviously. And
I don't know, did you have people bring blankets and pillows,
their favorite pillows so they were comfortable when they.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Were laying down.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
Yeah, but by the last day, that's that's what they
were we're doing.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I mean they bring their favorite pillow or something.

Speaker 5 (51:06):
Yeah, so so they can you can just recline. I
think it's better when you recline on your back. First
of all. I think it's better when your legs and
arms are are extended a little bit. I think of
the in yoga because I've done a lot of yoga training.
The dead Man posed, but but just extended. Nothing crossing uh,

(51:27):
no loose fitting clothing or no clothing, no jewelry. Take
your glasses off, take your watch off, take your bracelet off,
none of that.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Nothing. You know.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
Don't cross your feet or legs. Sometimes I sleep with
my feet crossed.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
You know, it's like not on a lucid dream.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah, you're fine. It's interesting because you say in here,
focus your attention on putting the physical body to sleep,
and then you're talking about this right now, start with
your feet and work your way up to your head.
If somebody has a problem sleepy, yeah, it's not gonna work.
You have to be somewhat of a regular sleeper, don't you.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Well, this is what's interesting.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
You know, people that get canked out, you know, they
have amazing lucid dreams because the spirit leaves the body
because suddenly, suddenly it's it's set free, you know, or
or or people who are are in a comba, they'll
have remembered things or people that that have like in
an operation, I mean always recently, in a twelve hour operation.

(52:29):
It's like you you can go a lot of places
in twelve hours, you know. Oh yeah, but but but
know that there's an inner side of what everybody knows
there's an inner voice in each one of us. Without
getting into any kind of spiritual analysis, there's an inner
you that that that that speaks to you and has

(52:52):
your best interest at heart. And that's what we're talking about.
I think a bit of spirit.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
So talk about the next uh phase, which is deep
rhythmatic breathing. Yes, until it becomes regular. Now what does
what does that help? How does that does that kind
of shift the consciousness a little bit?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (53:14):
Now, this this is going to actually this is part
of yoga training that it just seems to fit handing
glove here. It It actually opens up oneself to to
let consciousness come forward. Uh it it It is not

(53:38):
depriving you. I mean when we when we begin to
do shallow breathing, I catch myself doing this now and
then moments of stress. Uh there, there isn't a lot
of great thought going on.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
You know that.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
You know you're just barely breathing. You know you've got
you've got to actually begin deep rhythmic reading. I like,
I like a breath uh in threes. Uh, I do
uh three deep breaths. Hold it for the count of three,
and then I expel it for three and as I

(54:13):
begin it, I usually will think of of of of
taking in the energy and the pure error around me,
and then and then purifying it and blessing it as
they take it inside and internalize it, and then I
expel it with with my with my love and gratitude, uh,

(54:35):
onto the world. I think that getting into breathing exercises
is almost as important as is and this is probably
why people have trouble because they're they're really not relaxing,
and this is very relaxing when you get into deep
breathing and breathing exercises.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
You go to the next phase, which is preparing map,
and then you're saying, here, I'm just going to read
the first of six sections, which is notice that your
heightened consciousness is now racing while your body and analytical
mind is at rest. Yeah, and so you're you're leaving

(55:18):
the critical thinking mind you have everyday activity, and this
other mind, the other level of consciousness, is you want
to bring in.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to recognize at
some point that your analytical mind, this little pocket calculator
that runs her life, does a really good job for
what it does, but there are limits to what it
can do it. It is based, It is limited by
its own frame of reference, its own memory bank. It

(55:52):
is only as good as the information you put in.
It's like a computer and nothing else. You can't speculate
on the unknown. You know, it doesn't know where you
were before this life. It doesn't know what lies ahead
of you. It doesn't know what you need, It doesn't
know what's out there in the unknown world. There's only
one part of you that does, and that's your inner consciousness.

(56:16):
So it's very important to begin mapping by setting up.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
The right part of you in charge.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
So then you get to this state of consciousness that
you're calling the dreams scape dream scape. And this is
interesting what you write. Orient yourself to your presence there
and your surrounding. That's really critical, isn't it That?

Speaker 5 (56:41):
Really, it really is clip because you know otherwise you're not.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
You're not aware that you're.

Speaker 5 (56:52):
Truly in a lucid dream. You need to orient yourself
so that you're consciously aware. And when you become consciously aware,
then your full uh a set of conscious awareness opens
up to you, and and and and that's a tremendous

(57:12):
bank of resources to draw upon. It replaces all of
your physical perceptions that you've left behind in the physical realm.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
And so, I mean, I've heard different techniques like look
at your hands or something, and I don't know what
the significance of looking at your hands is, but yeah,
that's a good bound that your physicality.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
Now this confuses people because you say that in your
in your lucid dream, the way that we're describing it here,
it's a non physical reality. It is your subtle it
is your consciousness on subtle energy body level, having left
the body, So how would you have hands? So, I mean,

(57:58):
I think the thing that the thing to think about
is that that you're when you've left your your your
your physical body behind, your astral double has has replaced
it on the on the other level. So you have
what's called the etheric double. And the etheric double is

(58:19):
somewhat representative or or a tissue copy, a transparent copy,
if you will, of of of your physical being. But yes, yeah, yeah,
the importance is that you you placed yourself there. I
think the thing the important thing is to own uh,

(58:40):
the experience, to own the environment, UH, to own up
to the dream and to uh and and and to
actually accept your your position there, so you're there. You
you're in this level of consciousness. If you have not
intended to have an event or meet someone or go

(59:03):
forward or backward, you're kind of left to whose decision
on what you're going to do in that state. Yeah,
I mean you're not always going to find what you're
looking for in a lucid dream. I mean you have
a wish list which you've created with pictures on your agenda,

(59:25):
and then you've used it for mapping to get there right,
and then then you've gone into the dreamscape and you
might not find what you wanted. Now, there are various
reasons why can be disappointing, sure, but sometimes spirit knows
better what you're ready for. I mean, some of the

(59:47):
things I wanted my first dreamscapes were insanely grandiose. I
was called back by a dream teacher. I said, this
is this is not good. You know, we're were going
to curb you for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
You know, what do you mean a teacher, a dream
teacher or a physical teacher.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
I had a dream teacher for a while. Somebody would
actually help me in my dreams. And for a while
she would would would help me h go places until
I felt a little more secure going on my and
and people say, well, did you conjure her? And I said, well,
that might sound like it, but I didn't. I visualized

(01:00:27):
her the same way I visualized where I want to
go in my dream. So I visualized what kind of
a kind of attributes I would need in a dream
teacher or a dream guide. And then and then I
refined it to where I could actually see her face,
and then and then she was there. And then ultimately,

(01:00:47):
like all good manifestations in visualization, I actually visualized actually
having having found her. And then, indeed, finally when one night,
when I rose above my bed, above the cabin, above
the tree line, into the dark sky in the snowy
mountain where I lived, I reached out my hand and

(01:01:09):
there she was. She grabbed my hand, and I was
no longer flailing about aimlessly like a fool in the
night sky. But I had someone who said where would
you like to go? And I said where can I go?
She said no, she said, it's important to have the
right questions, said the important. The questions, she said, at

(01:01:30):
this point are more important than the answers. Wow, I said, whoa, whoa?
She said, So choose wisely, and so I said, well,
I would like to go someplace place that would would
would show me things that that would be profound and
and I could learn. So she started ticking me on

(01:01:50):
walk through the woods. She said, now, you could do
this during the day, she said, but we'll do it
right now, and we'll show you how everything in the
in the woods will teach you everything you need to know.
She said, nature is our teacher, and this was her orientation,
this was who she was. So this is the kind
of teacher I got. So, so this is what we did.

(01:02:12):
We walked in the woods, and we would spend hours
looking at things crawling into holes in the in the
in the in the woods and in the burrows, and
hidden passages in the trees. And then she'd say, now
what does this mean? What is this tullis? And I said, well,

(01:02:32):
that little squirrel found a place to live. She said,
you're not looking deep enough. She said, there's always more.
She said, until you could ask the right questions, I
can't help you find the right answers. And finally she
turned me over to somebody else. She said, this is
my teacher. He has more patience than I do. He

(01:02:52):
will help and I said, but but I want you.
I want you, And she said no, she said it's
not working out. So I mean, but she was really
good for me, and and and and Yeah. I think
it's good to have a dream teacher.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
I like that idea that you didn't place that in
your book, but a helper dream helper is great idea.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Yeah, As we're concluding, von, what should people be trying
to achieve when they get to the point where they
can do regular lucid dreaming. I've heard some people will
use it for problem solving, creating scenarios where they're you know,

(01:03:41):
perhaps interacting with somebody in a relationship and learning how
the person will react or whatever. But talk a little
bit about the the benefits of having the ability to
lucid dream.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
So I think in a full blown lucid dream escape
the way I practice it, I go somewhere and I
do something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
It's a great adventure.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
I call it the inner journey of the hero within.
But it is your consciousness that takes the journey. Now,
if we look at different ways that people analyze remote viewing,
we can understand there are different aspects to lucid dreaming
as well. Dreaming could be simply that you remain in

(01:04:30):
a fixed location and you set up the lucid dream,
but you don't actually leave. It's not an out of
body experience. But the consciousness nonetheless reaches out, reaches out,
And this is one of the great things of consciousness
is that it doesn't need to go somewhere to see something.

(01:04:53):
It can reach out like antennis, and your consciousness can
reach out and find the answer. So I think finding
answers to complex problems is wonderful. I always do this
when I'm stuck on a book, and I will say, gosh,
where do I go now? And I'll just think of that.
I'll think of that, and then I begin to visualize

(01:05:17):
that in terms of pictures, like what's chapter twelve?

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Where do I go? What do I do?

Speaker 5 (01:05:22):
And and I'll dream it. You know, sometimes somebody will
come and say.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
You know, this is what I would do.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
I'll get little helpers. They'll come say this is what
I would do? You know, And and the answers are
there's a infinite number of bits of information out there.
All of these thought forms are all like dancing around,
and all you need to do is put up your antennas,

(01:05:52):
your consciousness and connect you know it's connecting to it
is a vertical alignment of one's consciousness.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Uh. I really like the fact that you know you're
this is a Hindu focused type of lucid dreaming, which
is very ancient, and it might be the reason that
you are able to get a room full of participants
to actually lucid dream without except for the square answers, Well,

(01:06:22):
they weren't meant to be in your class to be No, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
So hey, real great having you on the program. The
books called programming your Lucid Dreams. My guess has been
Von Braschlar. Uh, give us your website and how people
can get a hold of you. Give us the details
of your social media.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
Sure, it's a von Braschlar website dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Oh that's simple enough.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Very very easy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Yeah, are you on social media? Are you on like
Facebook and Facebook?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:06:53):
Facebook, backslash v Braschlar okay, And I have a couple
of pages there. One is when it's for one of
my books, and one of them is for my my
my fiction books.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
I just a fiction as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Right, And this is a third of your lucid dreaming books.
Isn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):
Yeah, And then it was in the middle there there
was a scroll. It's like, what a scroll?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
And is it now available on Amazon? Yes, it is,
so it came out in July.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yeah, yeah, perfect it end of June. Very end of June.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Very good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Okay, really easy to read, and it's a good book
to I mean, you make it sound so easy. I'm
almost jealous that you can kind of close your eyes
and get into a locid dream. So I am definitely
gonna give some of your techniques a try, especially because
it's Hindu bass and you're a meditator, and it might

(01:07:56):
if I follow your instructions, it might be easier for me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:59):
I hope I didn't put too many steps. I know
there's a lot of steps, but if you look at that,
you look at the Hindu approach, the Sutrus, I'm really
complicated and I wanted to get away from.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
That that is complicated breathing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
You're right, it gets you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Hey much success, Vonn, and thanks for joining me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Thank you, Cliff.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
Good to see you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
You know, I was looking at this book and there's
a lot to really like about it, but I personally
what I'm laying down it would be great to have
a guided audio version of the book or a Lucid
Dreaming audible program so that you can actually listen and
go into the state. So I mean, I'm still working

(01:08:47):
on Lucid Dreaming the depth of it, and I'm hoping
to get somewhere soon, so I'll let you know how
I do. But check out the book Programming Your Lucid Dreams.
It's been out for a couple of months, so you
can get.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
It out Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Hey want to mention we do tours. We got one
coming up in December. It's our Sacred Pyramids of Guatemala
December first to the twelfth. Lots to really like about this.
Not only doctor Lydia and Artural de Leon will be
our guest, but we also have a number of shaman
archaeologists and it's just a fantastic tour to consider. For

(01:09:24):
more information, go to earth Ansents dot com forward slash
Tours check it out. Any questions whatsoever hit me up,
go to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter
you at Gmail and I'll get right back to you.
This is way. This is a great way to end
the year. All right, that's it for this program. I
want to thank my guest today von Broschler and his

(01:09:45):
new book Loser Dreaming. As always the team of Gail
tour Mark Foster, Faisal Bavar.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
You guys rock.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
All right, Take care of you well and we will
talk to you next time. The ban

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Aga
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