George Haas & William Saunders: The Ruins of Mars, Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
We're returning to the planet Mars this week in a
part two of our archaeological Discoveries and Anomalies on the planet.
And I will mention this that a couple of weeks
ago Joe Rogan featured many of the artifacts that we're
going to present today on our show and really questioned

(00:41):
NASA JPL's reasons for not being more forthright on the details. Hey,
this is Cliff your host of Birth Ancients, and this
week we take a closer look at the red planet
and just what is showing itself in photographs by the
high rise satellite camera and detail that it seems are

(01:02):
obvious is obvious to the point where professionals PhDs, scientists
are saying what's going on here? Now? If you've followed
Earth Ancients for the last few years, you know we
feature the best of the best when it comes to Mars,
including doctor John Brandenberg and Mark Carlotto, George Hass, William Saunders,

(01:26):
and today, would you believe our own doctor Robert Schack,
who's a professor of geology at Boston University, will present
to us details on a new series of photographs and
images that are profound, And when I say profound, there's
no question that they are the ruins of a race

(01:48):
of beings that we have no clue about. We do
know that from our most recent guests, including gene War,
that the new estimates are that the planet was hit
with a devastation over twenty thousand years ago. When we
spoke with John Brandenburg, his dates were more like a

(02:08):
million years ago. And I'm on the fence on this
one because I think that there's had a couple of
different catastrophic events, and of course we know from John
Brandenberg the residue in the atmosphere suggests a nuclear catastrophe
of some kind to the point where the atmosphere was destroyed,

(02:31):
and more to the point, you know, what are the
remains now. There are various rover images. There's complete Facebook
pages devoted to image reconnaissance of rovers on the planet,
and for a number of years we've known that NASA

(02:53):
has gone out of its way to photoshop, image correct
and completely remove entire portions of craters of flint landforms
that are revealing buildings and pyramids and other details that
are obvious we would call man made here. We can't

(03:16):
use the same language man made on Mars because we
don't know the creatures the entities that have built these places,
but from what we can tell, they are very very intelligent.
In fact, I've always said that many of these large
reliefs that we see on the surface of the planet

(03:37):
are very sophisticated, and they are the work of a
highly intelligent race, bordering on genius if we look at
it from our perspective. Now, I'm also going to present
a number of photographs that have come to me of
the Sidonia region of Mars, and this is the location

(04:00):
of the famous face, this mile long by half a
mile high face of a hominin of a human being
of some kind, and the local region of the area
of Sidonia, this is what they call the civic area,
civic area, meeting area, where there's a large pyramid, there's

(04:21):
a building known as a fort. And when you look
at these photographs, you'll see that many of these structures
in this civic area of Sidonia are made to look
like human beings. There's a actual face or two, and
there's a new face that has been was mentioned to
me a year or two ago that is now very

(04:43):
much clearer than what we've seen in the past, and
that'll be available on the Earth Ancient's Facebook page, and
we will follow it up in a few weeks with
Gary Legier, who's an expert image specialist and has worked
with and now umber of different people. In fact, he's
got his own podcast and he features his own work

(05:08):
as well as other people that are noted for their expertise.
This cannot be squelched anymore. This is getting to the
point where it's black and white. I don't remember what
Rogan's guest said on the program, but I think there
will be consideration for a congressional meeting of the minds

(05:31):
and to pressure NASA JPL into showing more of the
details of this planet. It's going to be an embarrassment
to them if they continue to cover this up. But
I have to say this that in a recent series
of YouTube presentations, a number of the whistleblowers have basically

(05:58):
said the same thing that many people feel is an issue.
And this is this document that NASA had requisition in
nineteen sixty, the Brookies Institute document on First Contact. The
feeling is still the same that if people learn that
there's a civilization on Mars, or evidence of a civilization,

(06:22):
however you want to present it, that people will not
react well. Churches will have trouble with congregations, people will
freak out and go nuts. I'm still of the belief,
and I'd love to do a survey of you listeners
how you feel about this. But I'm of the belief

(06:42):
that people are ready. They're tired of this cover up.
They're tired of thinking or being told we're the only
ones in our cosmos. And you know, if you follow
av Lobe on this program, you know that this whole
three I Atlas asteroid probe, alienship, or whatever you want
to call it, is calling it causing a great deal

(07:04):
of concern because in the last week or two the
images from NASA have stopped. They have stopped the images
of publishing images of this of this ship. If it's
a ship or a probe, or if it's an asteroid,
why would they Why would they stop showing pictures of it,

(07:24):
Why would they stop imaging it? We just don't know.
So it's time to come clean with this material. We're ready,
we know we're not the only ones in the universe,
and so it's time for clarification. It's time for details
to come through. We want to know what's happening and
we want it to know without a cover up. So,

(07:47):
by the way, today's program is based on a white
paper that was written. It's called Mars Geological Formations or archaeology.
It's a paper that was admitted to the Journal of
Astrobiology and published. It's a peer reviewed scientific paper that
was published and accepted. And guess who are the writers

(08:10):
of this paper. Doctor Robert Schock is part of this.
William Saunders and George Haas are also co writers of
this paper. So this is what we'll be talking about today.
So today's program is The Ruins of Mars, Part two
and my guests are William Saunders and George Haas. Hey,

(08:36):
the Earth Angiance Final tour of the year is held
in Guatemala this year, and people were wondering, well, why
aren't you just going to Mexico. What has happened in
Mexico is that they have outlawed ceremony by shaman by
native people. Anything to do with ritual is not allowed anymore.
They've also reduced the ability to climb, to touch, to

(08:58):
integrate with the pyramids, with the temples, with the archaeological parks.
And we are moving to Guatemala for this final tour
December first to the twelfth, and I'll tell you why
we are allowed by the Guatemala government and the archaeological
community to connect, to sit, to meditate, and to activate

(09:22):
these pyramids. This tour is really for you, to give
you a chance to integrate, to meditate, and to work
with these sacred energies. This tour features archaeologists, features shaman,
features research investigators, and it offers you an opportunity to

(09:44):
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go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tour and
check it out. This is really a very rare and
wonderful opportunity to connect with the ancient Mayan pyramids. Come
out and join us Earth Asians dot com Forward slash Tours.

(10:46):
It's been a while since we had George Haas on
the program. I've always trying to find an excuse to
get George on the program or anybody who is uh working, imaging, discussing,
analyzing Mars. And as you all know, I am a
have a great interest in the phenomenon of Mars because

(11:08):
there is, to my mind evidence of a lost civilization.
There is archaeology all over the planet it's it's from
top to bottom, and not just Sidonia. It seems like
every single month there's a new area that's being imaged
and data is being released by NASA.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
And the.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's profound. It's profound. So we have with us today
the return of George Hast, but we also have William Saunders,
who co wrote with doctor Robert Schack, who's not with
us today, a paper called Mars Geological formation or archaeology

(11:54):
square shaped structure within the Arabia Terra crater. Excuse me,
And this was a paper that appeared in the Journal
for Astrobiology, and it is it's not only an eye opener,
but it's a great paper. I am going to make
it available to you listeners by going to either the

(12:17):
Earth Ancient's Facebook page you'll find it there or my
link which is just Cliff Dunning on Facebook. I'll have
it there as well with the graphic. So, George William,
welcome to Earth Ancient's great to have you on the program, right.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
First question to you, George, how did you get Robert
Shock to jump on board on this one? This seems
like kind of out of his expertise, but perhaps not.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Well Bill and I have co wrote about six papers
dealing with artificial structures and anomalies on Mars. And Bill
and I both are members of the Sidonia Institute, and
we had another member, Michael Dale, who was also a geologist,
and he passed away recently a couple of years ago,

(13:12):
which we were shocked. I didn't even know he was ill.
And when we do these papers, you have to you know,
a lot of these frings type science that we're working with.
The publishers they want at least two geologists on this paper,
or two or a physicists or somebody with the science
background to give it some legitimacy. So we lost Michael Dale.

(13:32):
And I'm sure you remember back in the beginning of
the year, I contacted you because I know you interview
a lot of people that deal with anomalies on Earth
and Mars, the Moon and things like that. And I
asked you, I said, Cliff, do you know a geologist
that might be interested in joining our paper? And you
got back to me and you said, you know, try
Robert Shock. You gave me his email. I guess you

(13:54):
had contacted him to make sure it was okay, And
I sent him out an email asking him if he'd
did student working on this paper with us. I gave
him a little idea of what it was, this square
formation on Mars, and he got back with me and said, yeah, sure,
I'll take a look at it. So I sent it
to him and a few days later he sends it

(14:15):
back and he's he already did his analysis of the
formation and he added his name to the paper. We
were like shocked. I contacted Bill. We couldn't believe it.
Bill had worked on some of the geology and Roberts
has added to that and it came out beautifully. And
what I was surprised he actually added his name to

(14:35):
the paper that he was on board. Wow. And after
we were shocked from that, he actually sent us some
journals that we could send up the paper to, and
we sent it out to this Journal of Astrobiology and
they accepted it pretty quickly. We had to make a
few changes of some of the reporting that we did

(14:57):
in the paper, but it went pretty smoothly. I mean,
it was like a mirror. What do you think, Bill?

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, I wasn't really too familiar with Robert Trout, but
once you told me that he wanted to get involved,
I looked at his credentials, and I was pretty pressed.
And it's always nice to My background isn't actually geology,
it's geomorphology, so it's always nice to have another scientist

(15:24):
on board, especially a geologist. And Robert had done, co authored,
or worked on a number of papers about Mars, so
it wasn't totally new to him.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, tell me, Bill, what had he worked on? Was
he in a featured in a paper or a book
of some kind.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
I believe there were papers. It's a while ago now,
I don't really remember. But he had a list of
articles that he had written. Whether they were actually published
science papers, I'm not sure, but he had a whole list, uh,
And there was three or four that were about Mars.

(16:11):
Others were about unusual structures on Earth and things.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
He's been to.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
South America numerous times to investigate ancient geoglyphs and geology
down in Peru mostly.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, what makes this paper not only is it important,
but makes it unique is the fact that you are
taking images that and I'm going to ask each of
you to give you a definition, but just on the
off the top of my head, you are showing the

(16:52):
foundations of signific significantly large buildings that have been imaged
from a satellite, and the shape, the geometric shape, makes
them immediately artificial. But what other features are we looking for, George,

(17:14):
when we are looking at these found I mean I'm
calling them foundations. Is there another name for them?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, there are structural foundations. This square formation does appear
to be the remains of a foundation. But when you're
looking at structures on Mars, or buildings or just regular
mounds and formations, we always revert back to the quotes
from Carl Sagan where he says that intelligent life on

(17:43):
Earth reveals itself through the geometry and regularity of its construction.
So if you're finding geometry on another planet, things that
have right angles, rectangle squares, that's not something you normally
find in nature, something that would be created naturally. And

(18:04):
you could talk more to Bill about that. But if
you start seeing geometry, you know, pyramids and square shapes,
triangular shapes, all kinds of geometry, then you're looking at
something that possibly is artificial.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah. Bill, when we look at this and we think
of the engineers that work at JPL, what is their
response going to be? You know, I mean, I'm not
sure they're reading the Journal of Astrobiology. But this is
a pretty obvious phenomenon of artificiality.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Well, there's been a lot of people showing discovering things
that look totally artificial. They look out of place for
a planet that never was inhabited by any intelligent beings,
and it's dead silent out of Nassau. They never jpl,

(19:03):
they never really comment unless there's something that they've got
a quash. But I don't know how much. How many
times has this been photographed.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
George, this score, Well, look, everybody was talking about when
this first came back into the public. Guy. They were
looking at the old twenty one, the two thousand and
one image from the Mars Global Surveyor, but recently the

(19:36):
Mars Reconstant Orbiter, which is a higher resolution camera that's
taken like eight to ten pictures of it, including maybe
a couple of famous images. But youge there's a lot
of images of this formation that confirm its shape. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, one thing Cliff, George and I have noticed is
that if there's something unusual, they do tend to photograph
at numerous times. So we know from that fact that
that they did notice it. Let's put it that way,
and I don't myself. I don't necessarily think that it

(20:15):
was a building so much as it was probably a fortress,
a walled city, village, whatever. You just by the lack
of the amount of rubble surrounding it, it looks very
much like it was. It was a walled enclosure of
some sort. And in one side does people come out, Well,

(20:37):
there's it's not continuous. One side, it's not continuous. While
you you're going to have an entrance way, you should
be a pretty large entrance way, So that's a possibility.
But I did notice that there was basically a lack
of rubble around it for any sort of high building
to have been. But but then again we don't know

(20:59):
how oldness is and how much erosion may have occurred.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
The one.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Southern wall I believe it is, is right on the
edge of a cliff, and you can see where, of course,
over time cliff edges erode, and it was probably the
cause of the lack of definition of.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
A wall on that side.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
But my belief is that it was a walled a
walled enclosure. We don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
I spoke to Gene War the other day and he
was telling me that in a lot of images that
are pyramidal.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
He believes that they much of the planet was covered
in water, and some of these pyramids were underwater and
through receding water, the sediment sand whatever is covering them.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
What is your feeling on this foundation. Is it just
age that we're seeing in the wind blowing sand over
the walls? What as a geologist would you say, are
some of the definitive signs of weathering from and from

(22:24):
what source?

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Well, we do know that now ility denied it for
many years. We do know now that Marus had water
on it, and there's evidence of oceans and whatnot. But
this structure is on top of a cliff. Now, the
entire thing is inside a massive crater. So first off,

(22:48):
you're going to have, assuming it's an impact crater, which
it most likely is, you're not going to have geometric structures.
You're going to have radial. Anybody who's dropped the walk
into a mud puddle or anything knows everything comes out radially.
It doesn't come out into geometric patterns. So the weathering

(23:13):
that is evident that there is a weathering is the
material that has gathered and you can see underneath. Well,
I shouldn't say, you could see underneath. You can tell
by the way that the material is deposited. There is
indications that it's going over something that is underneath the

(23:33):
lineal feature that is underneath, and in different photographs that
we have of it, some of them are very clear
that there is a linear feature underneath that the debris
has has gone over. Now, Mars could have had all
the geomorphological features that Earth's processes. I should say that

(23:57):
Earth has had glat possible glazesiation. There's NASA has recorded
hundreds of seismic events over the years and so uh.
And there's also indication of water could have been below

(24:19):
this because there's there's channel areas, channel features below the cliff.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
So they're writing been weathering.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
And regardless that NASA claims that the water was billions
of years ago, you know, I don't think there's evidence
for that. That's just there their speculation. But yeah, there
could have been water erosion, wind erosion, seismic activity which
brought the walls down where there could have been you know,

(24:51):
conflict that destroyed the structure too to what's left of it. Right,
But there is there's definitely the evidence of the erolation.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
George can you share your screen. Let's take a look
at this. Go ahead and open the image you want
to start anywhere you want. You can go to the
page fifty five or or fifty excuse me, fifty three.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, well you have it says you have to disable
the screen sharing. You got this? I think you have
it blocked. How's that? There? You go?

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Perfect? All right, here we talk about this, talk about
so where did you find this or who found it? George?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
From our memory, we think that Richard Hogland was the
one that brought this to everybody's attention back on the
Old Enterprise mission.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Oh my god, what two thousand and one two or something?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, well, that's it's a long time ago. So you know,
Bill and I and people that do this, you know,
over twenty four years ago, we all talked about this.
This is old news. You know. I was surprised that
people brought this up because you know, this was one
of the first structures and things we all looked at
back in you know, twenty oh one, okay, and you

(26:11):
know it was pretty fascinating. But since this we've found
you know, full pyramids, all kinds of much more evidence
that shows there's artificial structures on Mars, So we were
kind of like surprised that, you know, Joe Rogan was
getting all excited about this and calling it e f
and wild, you know, and inviting Elon Musk to look
at it, and the whole This was all over the

(26:31):
internet in the beginning of the year. I mean, everybody
was talking about this. It's like, really, you're excited about this,
and we got much better stuff than this that we
thought we'd you know, take a look at it, and
we actually.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Let me just stop you for a minute, George, because
you and I both know the biggest problem with the
pyramidal structures is they're rounded. They're not angular. We you
can tell people that their step pyramids, but if they
are a million million, ten million years old, the weathering

(27:06):
has beaten them down so they look like little they
look like mountains. Now in the case of the DNM pyramid,
that's very distinctive pyramidal structure. But both of us. I
had Gene ward On on the program recently and he
shows me pyramids. If you're not trained to see the

(27:28):
integrity the structural formations and recognize it as a pyramid,
the average Joe's gonna go, what do you got there
now in this case, this is why Rogan's all excited.
This is a solid geometric square, right, and Bill's saying
that he believes it's a fortress. Well, what do we

(27:51):
think the size of this thing is? Is it like
miles in diameter?

Speaker 2 (27:54):
What's the It's a mile, It's a mile from one
side to the other.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
It's a mile from the end. Yeah, okay. Now the
next question, George, that you might be able to answer
is what do we believe the height of the walls are?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Oh? I wouldn't be able to tell you. You'd have
to talk the Bill about something like that. You'd have
to go by shadowing and you know, measurements like that.
But it's they're not you know, it's like empire state building.
I don't know how high these would be. What do
you think, Bill?

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, I'm not really sure, but if you look around
you can probably see or notice the lack of rubble,
so they weren't too high to begin with, and the
remnants there. You know, I'd have to do some calculations
to measure it.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I haven't, but I mean I guess my to be
more precise. Everything on Mars, the height of the pyramids,
like some of them are like half a mile you know, tall,
or a quarter mile tall? Are they obscenely tall? Just
just speculating. Are they something like two hundred feet tall

(29:05):
or one hundred feet tall or is it just too
hard to know?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Well, I'd just be well guessing that if if you
look at the shadows. Of course I don't know what
the sun angle is on this sofhand, but if that
taking into account that that structure, the square is five
thousand feet mile across, I would guess that they're going

(29:33):
to be you know, fifty two one hundred feet that's yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're big.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
And they also look like they're kind of uniform in height.
Nothing pops out that it's bigger, the kind of yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
And you have to remember too, the gravity on Mars
is so much less than Earth, so there is you know,
there's that factor that things can be built larger without
without the same gravitational effects. But you know, I'm just guessing.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
And this is just to still here from Joe Rogan
where you know, he was showing it on his program,
this is what you know, lit the whole fire with this,
and he had Elon musk On and Elon said, you know,
we need to send astronauts there to investigate it, you know,
see what it looks like. So you know, it did
get a lot of attention, and even Neil Tyson he

(30:33):
got in on it. You know, he didn't want to
be left out. Yeah, he's a real character. I think
I can say that if you watch this video, you
just click in. You know, the square structure on Mars,
So what is it? And for half of this it's
only a ten minute video, but for most of it
he just criticizes it and says that it's a paradelia

(30:56):
and you know, we don't need to really take this seriously.
But then at the end of the video, the last
couple of sentences, he says that I'm not saying it's
not interesting if you want to investigate geometric structures, and
he goes like, okay, maybe we can fold that into
a mission. So that's his statement, Like he kind of
says we should look at it seriously.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, I mean Tyson is on the orthodox side of everything.
You know, I don't consider him much of a spokesperson
for anything anomalous.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I only put this in here because he says that
we need to look at it.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Oh well, but I mean did you what did the
Musk say in terms of mission time factors.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Well, he kind of stepped out of this for a
while when he was you know, involved in DOGE and
all that. You know, they were burning Tesla parking lots
and he got into a lot of you know, political problems.
So and then everybody forgot about this, you know structure.
If I find that very interesting that you know, he

(31:58):
got involved in the government and all the excitement about
this square structure kind of like died away pretty quickly.
As you said earlier, you know, what does NASA think
of this? Well, because this was getting all this attention
in the media, and NASA finally came out and they
had to make a statement. You know, when they make
a statement about a structure, like Bill said, it's probably

(32:18):
anomalous and they don't know what to do and they're
trying to put the brakes on it. And so they
said it was nothing but a tectonic forces created this
fault line. Now, the weird thing is they show this,
they use this picture as an example of a ninety
degree angle. But the problem is if you go on
the website and find out where the image is and

(32:39):
you go to the context image. This is all part
of a whole system of faults and things that are
all connected, and this is just silliness. They've actually zoomed
in on a corner and they're trying to say, oh,
this is the same thing as the square that you're
all talking about, which is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
So this feature is caused by an earthquake. Was that
they're showing us.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, I's saying that this is a tectonic feature.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well what does that mean, bill, Bill.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, it's uh, well, they don't have plate tectonics on Mars,
at least not at the current time. But it's a
seismic event. They would say, but how do you get
how do you get those are those are grooves in
the surface. They're not they're not walls, they're groves. And

(33:31):
it's not ninety degrees, it's off ninety degrees. It's not
where the square stretcher has has ninety degree corners, and
it's it's a square formation. So to say this, but now,
so you know, they dance around things.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
But this was their response. This is as good as
they could get.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, George, why do they have so much problems with artificiality.
It's just the fact that the Brookies Institute is holding
them by the balls, and they just can't consider anything
artificial because that would spill the beans that there was
once a civilization on Mars.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Well, you just made the leap, that's what they're I mean,
how do they explain it if they would come out
and say that we found a structure, just one? What's
that doing on Mars? How did you know? You're opening
up a whole can of worms of how did it
get there? Did we come from Mars? Does this influence Christianity?
What of the Muslims think that they want to blow

(34:29):
something up now that there's something on Mars. It's like
they're scared to death of the cultures all around the world,
and some of the cultures are pretty violent.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
So they're adherent to a document requisition in nineteen sixty
by the Brookies Institute. And yes, they just can't move
beyond it because of their inability to function within current norms.
And I say that because I think the disclosure of

(35:03):
an ancient lost civilization on Mars would be a nice
opening to the whole UAP factors that we're dealing with
here on Earth. But Bill, what do you say to that?

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Well, sure, the you know, the the mainstream narrative is,
you know, the civil or civilization on Earth as a
linear progression from you know, ten thousand years ago that
we were hunter gatherers and we eventually got to this point,

(35:38):
and you have the as George George says, you have
the religious texts. But in Georgia and I covered a
lot of this in our first book about the ancient
manuscripts from Mesopotamia, and they talked about, you know, higher
civilization that from the past and people ignore it. They

(36:05):
discussed planets and how did people know about planets? The
planet Mars, for instance, the Romans and the Greeks and
Mesopotanians all new about the planet Mars. You don't have telescopes.
It just looks like another star. Of course, they studied movements,
but Mars was the god of war, and we see

(36:26):
a lot of destruction on Mars in terms of rubble
and things that may have once been like the square structure,
may have once been buildings or fortresses or whatever. It
throws the whole narrative law, the scientific mainstream narrative. It
just gets destroyed. If there was another civilization, high civilization

(36:50):
on Mars and beings equal to you know, Homo sapiens
in terms of their ability to build things. I think
it's it just as Joyce said, it opens up a
whole can of worms that they're not prepared to deal
with at this point in time.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow
our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly
with my guests today, George Hass and William Saunders discussing
the ruins of Mars. Will be right back. My guess

(38:07):
today are William Saunders and George Hass. They are part
of a paper that was released to the Journal of Astrobiology.
In the title of that paper was Mars Geological Formations
or Archaeology. It's obvious that we're looking at archaeology from
anyone's point of view. And just to let you know,

(38:29):
I have submitted photographs to noted archaeologists who say there
is no difference from what they see on Mars and
as it's compared to archaeological ruins on the planet Earth.
So that tells you something. And then when I do
mention to them that it's on Mars, they kind of quiet,

(38:51):
they kind of clam up a little bit. So interesting
reaction George, go ahead. We're looking at this image here
Arabia Terra. This is the area. Is this within the
crater or is this above the crater?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
No, this is a map of the whole planet. Here
is that little white dot in most Basically the center
of the picture shows you where Arabia Terra is. This
is where that little square formation is, Okay, And if
you go to the west, that area lines up just
about the same area that the face on Mars is.

(39:29):
And if you go east across that plaine there and
going to the blue area, that's where the Utopia area
is where they found structures. Also, doctor Brandenberg talks about
the formations that he found over the Utopia area. So
these are all in a just a you know, parallel
line here, and Bill and I have found that looking

(39:52):
at Mars, we're finding a lot of these structures and
pictographs and things that are either thirty to forty degrees
above the equator or thirty to forty deurees below the equator. Now,
if you go down here in this area here, this
is where the parrot is and that's again that's about
thirty to forty degrees below the equator. So there's a
lot of structures down in this area. There's a lot

(40:13):
of stuff up in this area. So just like you
have on Earth, this was.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
A hugely populated area then, right, George.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Oh yeah, just like you have on Earth. You know,
these are the sweet spots, you know, that's where you
want to be.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Is the blue where the ocean was or the one
of the best.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, this is a topographical type map and the blue
was the lowest, so that's probably where the water would be.
That's the oceans. This this would be a huge interior ocean.
This would be all the oceans. Of course, Sidonia is
right on the coast with a face on. Mars is
in the d and m the parrot is right over here.
This would be a port city next to this huge

(40:53):
lake or interior ocean. Because this is pretty large. This
was these were caused by craters. This is the hilliest
I think. So these are huge cratered areas that have
very low spots. And yeah, so just imagining this would
be all where all the water is.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
So is this close to Atlantis Chaos where that whole
area is that is right by a lake side.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
That's that's over here where you can see my curse.
So over here. That's Atlanta's chaos is way over here.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Okay, because that was that there were all.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
The grid city and all that stuff. Yea, that is so.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Bill was mentioning that the square the fortress is on
the edge of a cliff. Is there a natural ravine
or I think Bill was suggesting a river.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
That was just yeh, see this area down here, Cliff,
that this is the the square shaped structure. This is
in a Mars reconnaissance orbital image and you can see
down here, this is where the ridge is. And this
looks like there was water down here, Like this is
right on the side of a cliff where there was water.
So that would be a great place to have a fortress.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, it's funny because of that picture, George, it looks
like the edge of the of the walls are right
on the almost you know, right on the river bed.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Well, this is this goes, this goes down, this is up,
this is now so yeah, it's right on the corner
of the ridge.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
And we compare that idea with terrestrial fortresses like Masada
and other things like that. It's a very defensive type
of structure, I think. And the other thing, Cliff, that
this formation has a north the south orientation. This corner
here is at the north. This bottom corner like a diamond,
is at the southern end. So it's in a north

(42:56):
to south orientation.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Okay, now I'm gonna ask you both a question, and
I know I'm going to hear it from both of you.
But gene Ward recently said that he believes the most
recent civilization was roughly twenty thousand years ago. And I
asked him, you know that that goes in the face
of Brandenburg, who says hundreds of millions of years. It

(43:22):
goes in the face of George has our friend.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
He doesn't. Yep. I speculate that the formations on Mars
according to the Maya, which we the Maya Star Wars
discussion where the Maya talked about this connection with Mars
and this battle that went on, that it went a
million years ago and then twenty two thousand years ago.

(43:45):
So Ward is correct in that. I'm sure he probably
read my book where he got the twenty thousand year mark,
and they the Maya equate that with two different conflicts
they had with Mars. One was twenty two thousand years ago,
and Bill and I years ago thought that most of
these structures were no more than you know, between twenty
fifty sixty thousand years old. Is that correct? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (44:06):
I think I had mentioned one time that I thought
twenty twenty thousand for what we were looking at in Sidonia,
they're not that old.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Cliff, Okay, well then let's go back. Yeah, we look
at Brandenburg's hypothesis. Two nuclear bombs go off, are uh yeah,
go off the size of the empire state building, wipe
out the atmosphere, and so we're getting brutal erosion. And

(44:35):
this is what we're looking at now.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
You're looking at ruins. Now, I'm glad you brought up
Brandenburg because all of we have three examples, all right.
I use when I talk about this structure, is that
you have the Maya Star War, which they said happened
about a million years ago. Yeah, doctor Brandenburg, the nuclear
bomb went off on Mars a million years ago, a

(44:58):
million years ago, he says, in million. So, and then
we have another person mentioning this is three examples dating
the this war on Mars about a million years ago.
We have a CIA agent named Joe mcmonoch mcmonchael. Do
you know him?

Speaker 1 (45:17):
This is a newbie.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Well, he's got videos on the internet. This was he
was a CIA agent in the nineteen eighties and he
was part of the this group of agents that were
doing remote viewing. Oh oh, yeah, so he's a remote
viewer and he said that there was a civilization on

(45:39):
This is through his research with his group back in
the CIA back in the nineteen eighties that through their
remote viewing they saw the destruction of Mars about a
million years ago.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Okay, well, is that part of the SRI group?

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I don't know what he's part was he was CIA?

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Okay, Well, the SRI in Winlow Park, California are the
ones who trained uh the the Oh he.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Was part of the group with you know the Staring
at Goats movie. That's that's the same group.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
I mean is that MK ultra?

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Uh pretty close to that. So I'll spell his last
name for you. It's Joe m c m o n
e a g l e.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Mcmonicaal sitting at mc m o n.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
E a g l E. I'll look him up. He's
he's probably in his eighties right now, but you can
find his old video from the eighties. I think he
was doing a talk somewhere and he looks to be
a young guy then back in the eighties.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
George, we need to have somebody. We need to have
somebody from JPL who just uh, you know, tells the
organization that I'm not going to agree to my non
disclosure agreement anymore. I'm gonna buill the beans because I
know every time I have you on the program, I
laugh because they were spending the spending two and a
half billion dollars on each rover, and I have this

(47:11):
joke where the rovers bumping in the staircases, columns from
temples and stuff, but they're still looking for microbes, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Well, I think I think that's what their plan is.
Within the next I think few years, uh they will
say they found microbial life. That'll be the first step.
One thing. Well, I think that's just their timeline. First
it's going to be microbial wife, get the public use
to that, and then they'll go on for you know,
saying they found some artificial stuff. Well it is nothing

(47:44):
we've seen. They probably have examples that look very safe
that they can show the public.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Is Elon UH an insider or would he break the
the uh uh secrecy and get on foots on the
ground boots on the ground in Mars and expose NASA
for their crimes of of I don't want to say collusion,

(48:11):
but a lack of transparency.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah. I think Elon would be someone that that would,
you know, break away. But he has to work with
NASA because you know, they're providing him launching pads and
you know all this access. He basically runs the space
program right now.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Yeah, you see people, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you
don't think that he would be the one. I mean,
it's either him or China. China's got the resources to
build the rover and to jump on to the Moon
or tomorrow. I mean, they've already been on the moon exposed.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
I hate, I hate to disappoint you a cliff, but
I don't think China is gonna be announcing they found
any structures on the moon are Mars. Because they're a
communist culture and in the in communism, the government is superior.
They get rid of a religion, they get rid of gods.
They don't want to have their public to know there
was some advanced civilization before their emperor. They're the communists.

(49:10):
They don't want nothing to do with that. When they
go to the Moon in mars Is they're going to
build bases. It's all military for them. In anything they
find they will destroy because it goes against their government.
They are the superior. See that's communist government. They run everything.
You can't have anybody above the government.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Think about it.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Well, I mean that's not good news.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Then, I mean, and then Russians. The Russians will do
the same thing. Nobody is better than Vladimir. Nothing superior
to him. You can't have it.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
I don't know about that. Because they sent to probes
to Phobus one and two, and one of them was
knocked off course and the other one was destroyed. But
before it was destroyed, they imaged what looked like a
saucer craft and that.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Was the gar Gar shape. Yeah, but that was leaked
and they denied it. They said that was just an
artifact in the image.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Oh that's interesting. Oh yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
I wouldn't have any I put more hope than Elon Musk.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Or maybe William Saunders and George Hobbs maybe that well
they'll get this out there.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Well, maybe maybe Bill can build his own craft and
get it to Mars.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I don't know. He's good than rocks. But I don't
know about machinery.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
What do you think, Yeah, I don't think that's my expertise.
You have trouble keeping my car running.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
What's this job, Steve Maxwell?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, Stephen here, he actually did a science paper. Well,
we were doing research on this. I didn't even know
this had come out. This was a paper he did
in twenty twenty one and he did a whole analysis
of the square formation. Nobody paid attention to it, but
he's footnoted in our paper. And what he did was

(51:06):
he looked at the interior alignments that were in the
structure and he used some type of process, an imaging
process that I'm not familiar with, that brought up this detail.
I tried doing some enhancements, and all he was working
with was the original Mars Global Surveyor image and I
couldn't reproduce this. But I just put this in my

(51:28):
slide show here to show people that was actually someone
else looking at this and his work.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
This red outline on the right.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yes, this is all his.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
And what you see are these rooms or are they
part of a bull tall layered, mostly storied building of
some kind.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, he's saying that, like Bill has suggested that this
was a walled city and these are evidence that some
of the buildings that were inside, and that's what his
paper talks about.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
George, do I have that photograph that you can send
me as an individual on the on the PDF.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yep, I'll send you a link to his paper, his paper,
the link to his papers in the paper. Oh, I
hear you, Okay, so you can just go. He actually
has two papers. One he published in the beginning of
the year and then he did it update and it
was published again.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
What is his PhD in, George, I don't know. Oh,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I don't think it's in. He's not a physicist or
that type of He's not a geologist, it's it's some
kind of I think he's more of a medical.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's almost like anybody having to do a space work
automatically signs a non disclosure agreement, uh to spill the
beans on obvious geo uh, you know geoforms like this.
It just blows me away.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Well, this this next thing it just is on the left,
is from Steven's paper. And then I found this aerial
photograph of this, uh, these ruins in Iran, which is
a square type fortress with the structures inside very similar
to what we see in on Mars.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
Yeah, when Ben and I were looking at the Mars
Global Surveyor image, most people were just focusing on the square.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
But I found there's this, there's a rectangular shape here,
and over here there's these four little circular mounds. And
we had our friend James Miller do measurements of all
these and these are perfectly separated by the same amount
of space. I mean, they're perfectly the the separation, the
measurement in between, it's it's all consistent. It's pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Well, that's an interesting note, George, because of h is
a pyramidal structure of some kind. It sits right on
the wall of the of the buildings, so maybe it's
maybe there isn't a complete wall for that size out
of that square.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, well in other images it seems to be a
little further away from that line. This is the original
Mars Global Surveyor image, and to actually get the correct
alignment of things, you got to look for things that
are You know that the Natar is directly overhead, so
it's a little distracted here about where that wives, but

(54:25):
they're separated. They are very close. That number lowercase H
so is pretty close.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
What did Bill say that the height of his estimate?
Bill was one hundred feet tall? So F and G
are they equally as high?

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Yeah, they look to be. I was guessing fifty two
hundred feet. But like I said, that's just guessing. But
if you notice the capital C the bottom of the
large square, it looks like a pyramidal formation too. If
you look at all corners, all four corners, it looks
like there could have been turrets.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
You know how.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Any any walled fortress or prison or anything they have
have turrets on the corners.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
For especially down here, for defensive reasons.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
For defensive reasons. And and the other thing I wanted
to mention is the small rectangle on the left. It's
George has lines on it. But it's very geometric as well.
It's a it's a perfect rectangle. So you have two
not just one, but you have two geometric structures side
by side. I don't know if you could calculate the

(55:39):
odds of that happening by chance.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
And George, you felt that the total circumference was approximately
of the square was a mile.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, there's measuring tools. I mean, you look at the
ancillary data and it tells you how wide the pixels are.
And Jim, our good friend, Jim Miller, he does all
of James Miller as he goes in the scientific community.
He measured all this for us and it's all in
the paper.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Okay. One thing I didn't ask you is what was
the review and the if there were any criticisms by
the Journal of Astrobiology. First of all, what was it
What was their response? And secondly, was it Robert Shock

(56:28):
that gave you access to that journal or did they
have you published there before? That's a lot of questions.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, well, I we've never published there. That we were
that journal was recommended by Robert Schock, Oh try this one,
and we did and we got in. So but I
don't know what his relationship is with them, and they
the peer review was was pretty short. They they changed
the name of the paper. They wanted us to add

(56:56):
a few other things. I don't think they changed anything
to the U the UH geology right up to you, Bill, No.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
I think their their adjustments to the paper were pretty
minor there. I do remember their comments back to me
a few times where you're very interesting paper.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because geologists are kind of
black and white. Of course, Bill, this is talking about
your field. It's like, if the evidence is there, it's
almost like, yes, that makes sense. I kind of understand
where you're coming from. Whereas if it was if it's
a a somebody in space, space scientists or planetary science,

(57:45):
this kind of anomaly is just completely unacceptable. Well, it's
like they can't stretch their their their creative mind that
this is a you know, an intelligent design, I guess
is the term I'm using.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Well, the thing is on Earth you can have you
can have direct boots on the ground, you can have
in your face investigation taking samples and measurements and everything
else where, when you're looking at something that's ninety million
miles away, you can't do that. You can only surmise
by what your processes and your knowledge of similar looking

(58:24):
things on Earth and transpose that to what you're seeing.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
And I.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Always have a difficulty with the fact that there is
such a large discrepancy in the amount of gravity, so
how will things form they are compared to here? Just
because of that. Obviously have more more atmospheric pressure here
than you do there, But Yeah, nobody wants to. Nobody

(58:56):
who's a professional has any other professional at ste They
don't want to stick stick their neck out too far.
Their reputation is important. Usually people who are although Robert
Chalk doesn't seem to to you know, he's with a

(59:19):
Boston university, so he seems to be able to stick
his neck out a little further than you might think.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
You but what I means it's like they're looking at
the facts, not looking at the possibilities. It's like, you know,
geometric shapes, square, circles, pyramidal, octagon, whatever, And well.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
That's that's why you know, George and Robert and I
did this paper because geometry you can see it. You
don't have to go and and be faced right up
with your face to it to see that it's a
square well, I guess a mile long. You'd have to
be further away than that, but you can see because

(01:00:01):
of the photograph, you can see it's geometric. You don't
have to go there to see it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah, but George, you made a great point when JPL
reacted to Rogan's assertions that this was once a building,
and I forget who his guess was that made the
original assertion that JPL comes out with their version of
geometric shapes, which is that we're geological earthquake formation or

(01:00:29):
whatever the hell they call it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Like, I think that was like a fault line or
something that they were trying to compare it to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Why why not accept what we have? Why try to
cover with some bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I thought it would have been fine if they compared
to something that was comparable. But this was just like
apples and oranges, as they say, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
I mean, anybody could see that it's not the same
by any means whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
You know, this texture that we're looking at now is
in Sidonia, right, yes, this is this? Is this a different,
different square structure altogether. Again, it's a square, although on
one corner's missing, but you can surmise that it was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
George tell us about this, give us a describe it
for us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
This was something that Mark Corlatto, you know Mark Colotto,
he had found this. He did a paper on this
back in two thousand and two. And this is just
an indentation. It's like an impression of a square, and
it holds up in a bunch of other pictures. But
I just put this in here just to give an
example that there are other formations on Mars that are

(01:01:36):
square shaped, and this is just a comparison of a
square that was incomplete. They this was all probably plowed
over by something, erosion or whatever. This is American Indian
Mound in Ohio. And the interesting thing is Mark or
not Mark Cliff. There's your name right there again. This

(01:02:01):
has that north to south orientation. Mm, it's like a diamond.
The same thing with the American Indian Mound. It's north
to south orientation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
What's the circumfance of that square, George.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Well, it's it's very significant. We'll get to that in
a few minutes about its history. This is another square shape.
I put this one in the slides here because it
shows that this isn't complete either. It's all in the road.
It's eroded, it's collapsed. This is over in Afghanistan. This
is by sand. Yeah, well that's not on This is
on Earth, but you know it could be on Mars.

(01:02:36):
And people say, oh, no, that's not a structure because
it's not complete. But yeah, it's got sand covering parts
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Question to either one of you, have they attached a
light our camera to any of the sunrise satellites or
any of the satellites they're using on Mars. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Well they really don't need to cliff because the penetrates
through the foliage. There's there's no plant life on Mars.
But the image is a light our image. Yeah, but
we're talking about ground penetrating radar.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
No light ar, because what it does is it clears
out and identifies perfect squares and buildings in a more
detailed way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
And they can get you can set it for multi
layer too. You can set it for height with and depth. Right,
it doesn't go to more than a few feet. Just
just question, not that I know of.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Okay, I couldn't. I couldn't tell you for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Okay, there's another example. This is on Earth. This is
another ruins of a square shaped looks like again another
fortress wall. H. This is in Honduras. This is a
light our image. And again you have that north the
south orientation. Yeah, like the diamond. Uh. This is Masada,

(01:03:58):
which is right on the clip here. See the structure
fortress goes right out to the edge. We use this
as an example in the book just to show people.
You know that it's built on the corner of the ridge.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
There what's the drop off there, George, is that like two?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
That's pretty far I couldn't. I mean, you can see
how you know, a human you can't even see here
because they'd be saying, I don't know if these are
people here. But this is pretty far down. Okay, it's
a pretty high cliff. And this is the you know
where the Romans attacked the israel lights back in the day.
This is one of the last battles of Messada there.

(01:04:35):
And this is a new image that I just found
in New Bobby. And this is over in Jordan. I
was looking on the internet for something else and then
I found this. I said, oh my god, this looks
just like the orientation of the square on Mars. Again,
you have a this is called this is a fortress,
an ancient fortress from one hundred PC in Jordan. And

(01:04:59):
this is that wall that Bill was talking about that
it's possibly just a fortification. And again, this is right
on the cliff. The cliff goes down right here, as
you can see how it goes further down, the same
type of defensive orientation that we're seeing on Mars. Pretty remarkable.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
It is pretty remarkable. We're going to take a short
commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and
we'll return shortly with my guests today, William Saunders, a geologist,
and George Hass of the Sidonia Institute. We'll be right back.

(01:06:19):
Our program today revolves around a white paper that was
written by doctor Robert Schock, my guest today William Saunders
and George Haas and submitted to the Journal of Astrobiology.
And the paper is called Mars Geological Formations or Archaeology.
And it's obvious this is all archaeology that we are

(01:06:40):
imaging and we're presenting today. You can see all of
it on either the Facebook page go to Earth Ancient's Facebook,
or you can see it on our YouTube channel. Just
punch in Earth Ancients. You'll see all the documents and images.
Question for either one of you, Bill, do you when

(01:07:02):
we see these images of Mars and we see these
images of Earth, do we think that the Martians were
human like I guess or do we have any spect
There's no way to know. There's no skeletal remains, obviously,
but it's like there's a similar intelligence involved here.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
In our books, my last book, I go through some
of Sitchen's translations of Sumerian texts, and basically my view
is that there was simultaneous civilizations on Earth and Mars,
and they were both started by the same same group

(01:07:47):
of people, as most people don't refer to them as
the Naki, and so I'm sure the the influence that
they have add on human beings, maybe they took human
beings to Mars to work there as well. It's it's

(01:08:10):
interesting that George and I have found all these cultural
relationships between Mars and Earth. With the Maya civilization, we
have the religious artifacts that we have on Earth. George
and I have found similar things on Mars, so there
was a cultural a common cultural connection. But once again,

(01:08:34):
going back to the gravity, everything on Mars is going
to be larger, right because it's less gravity, So your
i think, your animal life, your plant life, everything is
going to be at the larger scale. So if there
is a hybrid similar or was a hybrid civilization, they're
going to be similar, but they're not going to be

(01:08:56):
the same, exactly the same. That's my thinking anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Thanks Bill, Hey George, So are we saying that the
Maya in their earliest phase had propulsion systems to take
them to Mars? Is that you're thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
No, this story about the Maya Star War that I
talked about in the book, the last chapter there, the
Maya did what the archaeologists called they do a lot
of re enactments, ceremonial stuff. They reenact the lords or
the king of this area would take on the persona
of an ancient god from the past. And what the Maya,

(01:09:33):
They weren't the ones having this star war between Earth
and Mars. It was the other culture that bestowed all
this information onto them. It wasn't really the Maya. This
is just lost information. We don't know who these people were.
But the Maya had it in their history. And when
they built a new pyramid and they had ceremonies, they

(01:09:53):
would reenact these ancient gods and these stories, and it
was it's kind of like, well that actually the Aztec
they had what they called a Oh God. What was
it that they did reenactments of ancient battles, right, I
think they were called the Flower Wars. And the Aztec

(01:10:17):
would have a relationship with the one of the settlements,
you know, far to the west, and they the lords
of each of the communities, would have this agreement that
they'd have this ceremonial battle which they're reenacting these battles
between Earth and Mars with the the Mars beasts and
things like that, and they would not kill the enemy.
They would capture them as slaves. But they did this

(01:10:41):
every so often during these ceremonies. It's these reenactments are
kind of like what we do with the Civil War.
People have these Civil War reenactments and the Revolutionary War
re enactments. We have medieval times where they you know,
they do the jousting. It's it's the same idea.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Yeah, of the four codises we have left, doesn't the
Madrid Codis have a lot of real interesting uh Mars
related planetary study in it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
The most or is that Venus. The codex that talks
about Mars mostly is the Dresden Codex.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
The Dresden Codex. But I mean they're making some very
uh specific observations, right, They're they're not just saying, well,
here's the planet. They're using it in a whole bunch
of calculations.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
I think, well, yeah, they they have calculated the orbit
of Mars around the Sun. I mean very you know, precise.
It's very interesting where they got all this information just
from observing the planets with their eyes. They have a
lot of detail. And the Dresden Codex talks about this,
you know, the Mars beast is the symbol of Mars

(01:11:57):
and it talks about you know, war battle things like that,
which goes right back to the whole idea of this
whole ancient knowledge that the Maya had kept about this
with the archaeologists call a star war between the Maya
in Takal Cosamal with the place they called six Earth place,
which was Mars, which was represented by the Mars beast.

(01:12:21):
So that's pretty interesting, makes a great read in my book.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
If the we got to push the book before you
Texas Mars before we move on.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Obviously, when we're looking at this ruin, the square ruin,
it's in a very dilapidated state. You would hope that
you would wish there would be some walls or a
roof or more structure to it. Are we looking at
the evidence of a nuclear war? Are we looking at

(01:12:53):
the evidence of horrific land tsunamis? If I would if
you were to theorize Bill what the cause of the
damage is, what would you say?

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Well, Brandenburg talked about evidence of the isotopes evidence of
nuclear explosion. I think that would be the earliest was
it million years ago? But the most recent ones. I
think we're a different type of type of weapon, something

(01:13:32):
that would destroy without necessarily making the place uninhabitable. But
you know, we don't know when Mars had an atmosphere,
We don't know when they lost it. But my thinking
is whatever caused the loss of the atmosphere was what

(01:13:54):
happened in the Last in the Last War, and that
was on Mars. And in my book, I go into
as I said, I go into some of the translations
that Sitchen did and they had. They talk about the
seven Deadly Weapons, and they don't describe what they were,

(01:14:14):
but that they were used in the battle, and they
were used. That's in Sodom and Gomorrah on Earth, and
there's evidence of destruction there and there is some radiation.
So I'm thinking there was a big battle Earth and Mars,
and we survived and Mars didn't. But I couldn't tell

(01:14:37):
you what kind of weapons. I just don't think they
were nuclear, but I think they were something along the
same lines. What do you say massive destruction?

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
What do you say, George, What do you say in
terms of the destruction of these ruins, the causation.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Yeah, I'm I'm in line to think similar to what
Bill is up with that. You know, there was some
type of battle that went on on Mars, and all
you can do is speculate. I mean, was it extraterrestrials
that they were battling with, Was it the the culture
that helped the humans evolve that they end up fighting
each other. It's hard to tell. But whatever happened, Mars

(01:15:20):
was destroyed and humanity flourished on Earth. And you know,
we find evidence of ruins on the Moon and on Mars.
And Zachariah Sitchen he talks about the Samerians saying they
had bases on the Moon and Mars at one time,
and we're finding ruins, so there's some kind of connection.

(01:15:40):
And then of course we have that story from the
the Maya with the Maya Star Wars, they talk about
a conflict between Earth and Mars. Right in India, we
have stories of their ancient gods, you know, having battles
in the skies and you know, so that again there
was battles of the gods.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
That's the Jabarata.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Yeah right, so it's you know, there's probably some truth
to all of these ancient stories. And you know, now
we're finding these ruins on Mars, and the only way
we're going to know is to go there, and I'm
sure we'll find, you know, some of the structure's pyramidal things.
I've come across there much better shape than this. Yeah,
and it may talk about that two different time periods
between the first battle a million years ago and then

(01:16:23):
the last one about twenty two thousand years ago, and
there may be some surviving technology there. So yeah, and
the Chinese will get it first.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Okay, Hey, so do we have any other examples that
you want to show in this sligh presentation, because you
went through a few that I hadn't seen before. We
just saw that one, that one of Masada.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Well, I usually end with this one. This is the
District of Columbia, which is you know, the Washington d C.
And the founding fathers built the perimeters of this sacred
capital of America in the same opposing corners, this north
to south orientation, which is just like we're fighting on Mars.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
But there's no actual wall.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
It's like a tradition. Oh okay, you know what I mean.
This is in our DNA. This is what we build.
This is what we do.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Where is the obelisk in? This is it in the
when the city is I can't see you from.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
The Washington Monument. Yeah, it's somewhere in here. This is
the main city. I think the White House is like
right there, right in the center.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
When was this map made, like in the eighteen hundreds,
eighteen sixty two, eighteen sixty two.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Yeah, Now they have little pigs all around here where
all of the I don't know how many of they are,
I can't remember right now. But as you know, over
the years, they've given parts of this back to Maryland
and Virginia. So we really don't have the original square shape.
You know, as as America disintegrates with its history and

(01:18:06):
they forget things, they start to break things up. So
this is the way it was meant to be. The
District of Columbia is not a state. You know, there's
you have some people in the Democratic Party that want
to make DC a state. It's it's it's a it's
a district. It's not a state. It was set up
that way for the government. But yeah, but it no
longer has that square shape to it. That's been whittled

(01:18:28):
away over time.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
So as researchers, both of you obviously find this of
incredible importance. When do we begin and I'm asking for
you to prophesies if you want to call it that.
When when do we begin getting hints that the I'm

(01:18:57):
just going to call it government. It might even be
it might even classify even though JPO would not like
to be considered military. I think they are under the
military guys leadership. When do we get hints does it
have to be in your face like the face on
Mars exposure, But when do we get an idea and

(01:19:23):
kind of a release date that they're beginning to release
data here and there that exposes the artificiality and the
evidence of our ancient culture on Mars.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
Either what I would I would say, you know, when
we first started, you know, major discussions about ets back
in the late forties, early fifties, seventy five years. I mean,
we've had disclosure basically for UAPs in the last few years,

(01:19:59):
so it's taken about seventy five years for that to occur.
But I think evidence of civilized a pass civilizations on
Mars is going to be much quicker than that. I
don't think it's going to be waiting for Elon Musk.
I think the Nassau will, either by accident or on purpose,
show something that's that they can't dispute as being natural.

(01:20:24):
And I don't know five years, ten years, really, but
it's going to be a lot sooner than seventy five.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Well, let me just ask you on this. On that note, Bill,
when we had John Brandenberg on he was or he
had found I think it was two or three additional
faces smaller than the Sidonian phase. Would it have to

(01:20:52):
be something like that that would wake people up and go,
wait a minute, these are hominin, these are human like faces.
You know, how are these on the planet and what
does this mean?

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
Well, George and I have found half faces when when
bifurcated faces and when you complete them, they look like
real faces. People ignore our work because they're not complete,
complete structures. They're they're half structures.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
But we have that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
Cultural significance in the Americas from the far north uh
indigenous people of North America to the far South of
South America, and they used half in bifurcated images in
their artwork. And we're seeing the same thing on Mars
and but just that little fact that they're not one

(01:21:51):
complete allows people to brush them aside.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
MM, your same question to you, what what's what's.

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
I'm glad to asked the question because I got this
slide up. Well, this is that book Archology and Anthropology
and Interstellar Communication by Douglas A. Van Kotch. This is
a book he invited all types of scientists, geologists, archaeologist,
there's a list of them, there's like twenty of them.

(01:22:24):
And their task was how do we identify structures on
another planet like the Moon, the Mars, or if we
go into the another solar system and we kind of
like you know, the old survey where they wanted to
see what our response was, could we identify structures on
another planet? The Brookings Institute. But the question the Brookings

(01:22:48):
Institute didn't ask, which this fellow does, is that how
do we identify structures on another planet? And with all
of these scientists, prominent scientists that he used in the study,
the conclusion was that scientists may have difficulty identifying structural

(01:23:10):
markers on another planet.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
And how why did he say there's a.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Problem Because they couldn't. They were shown things and they
couldn't identify them. They would think they were just mounds.
It's like American Indians when we first came over to America,
all of these mounds that the Indians built, a lot
of people thought they were just hills, you know, they
were just natural mountains. There were some of the largest

(01:23:37):
American Indian pyramids that they people thought were mountains. They
started taking apart.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
This is not good, George, it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
But this is what the study found. That scientists may
not be able to identify structures on it. They will
explain it away, just like NASA tried to do with
this square, you know, showing us a fault line saying, oh,
this is the same thing. It's nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Is it because they're over educated in it and the
possibilities or too far fetched for them to consider artificiality?

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
I think that may be part of it. But this
is an interesting book, and this just came out in
twenty fourteen, not that long ago.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I'll to look it up.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yep, it's mentioned in the paper.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Oh as a resource or a reference.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Yeah, I think it's in there. If it isn't, I
don't remember now if it's mentioned in there, but I
can send you the link. I don't know how much
time we have, but at the end of the paper
here or this presentation, I just went.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Go ahead and finish up with the slides. Please.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Yeah, these are some other structures. This is in the
Akron region of Mars. This here formation. See that there's
a structure up here. These things are all over the place.
That's a close up of it. Greg Worm, he's a
member of the Society for Planetary Ceti Research. He found this,
he called it. It looks like a slice of bread,

(01:24:54):
he called it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
And if you look on the left here, that's a
structure from Russia. It's an ancient structure that they were
digging up and it almost looks identical. Pretty amazing. Now
this has ranged. If you're not having trouble looking at this,
this is actually not an indented of shape. This is
a wall. These are walls, just like we have over here. Right.

(01:25:18):
Here's another I call this three rooms. This is to
see the walls. These just ruins. Another you know, linear
walled structure. This end here appears to have been collapsed.
And of course you got Atlantis chaos. This is you know,

(01:25:38):
the what you were asking about, Atlantis chaos. This is
on the western side of that grid city.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
I've never seen this image before.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
Well, brace yourself. You see the square here there it is,
and it's got a dome in the middle. This has
more lines than the square we were just looking at.
And this, this is right on the other side of
this this lake. You got Atlantis Chaos on one side,
and or the we call it the Atlantis Martian Atlantis.

(01:26:10):
This is on the other side. And this is a
square and dome and there it is outlined. It's remarkable.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
You think that's an observatory of some kind.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Well, uh, normally if that's if when you would build
a you know, interior wall. This is an impression here,
and then you got the dome. I don't know what
this this form is here. This is either some kind
of doorway. You got a little knob here, I mean
if you get down to the detail, because this looks
like this might be the entrance way here because it's
all dark. But yeah, and of course we have the

(01:26:42):
same idea on Earth. You know the circle in the
square Cliff. These are opposing geometry, right, you know that
you have the circle within the square. They're totally opposites.
You know, one's around the other one obviously has the
four sides. So again you're doing duality, like you know,
the face on Mars and things like that door and

(01:27:04):
I were talking about. So you've seen the same idea
of duality everywhere. This is in the Amazon's it's another
one of these square mounds, the circle in the middle. Yeah, yep,
as we see on Earth, we're finding on Mars, compasses
the circle in the square, the set of right. The Freemasons,

(01:27:26):
you know, they have the square and compasses. The compass
makes the circle and the square makes the square. This
is an nerve mound that was found out in the
Aborige in the area in Australia. MM. And this is
fenced off. Some people can't people right, so people can't
go in there and drive over it like they do
out in the Midwest. With some of those ancient Indian

(01:27:49):
pictographs out there that you know, you've seen the man fishing.
He's got tire marks over him. That people didn't preserve it.
And of course there's that great book, The Great Architects
of Mars. At the end, Yeah, I love that cover.
They did a good job on the cover, you know,
I get so many compliments about the cover. The publisher

(01:28:11):
did the cover but a lot of people do like it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Yeah, no, I do too, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
My cover was a whole different idea. They threw that away.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
Yeah, no, it's impressive. I love it. Fantastic. Hey, well, hey, Bill, George,
wonderful have you guys on the program. We continue to
offer the evidence for artificiality. I don't know if it
falls on deaf fears. If I get one new believer,
I think I'm happy. I have a lot of listeners,

(01:28:43):
and I think they're slowly opening their eyes to the
possibilities of life on Mars thousands of years ago. But
we're still looking for evidence. So as we close any
last comments, would love to hear from you. Go ahead.
I guess I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Should have give you a book also.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Yeah, mine is called mine is called the uh wherever
we got a copy of it?

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Well here, let me grab it here.

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
Yeah, mine's called The Lost Worlds of Earth in Mars
And the face on the cover is on the bottom
of the Pacific Ocean, but only half a face. And
uh get that up?

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
I like that nice?

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
Uh So, Yeah, I came out a couple of years
ago now, and yeah, it's it's I think you'd find
it a fascinating read.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Uh, George, Yeah, one last thing before we close out.
Bill and I are currently working on another science paper
and possibly with Robert Shock joining us. Uh, it's about
the DNM pyramid. Ina so well, is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
Molinar still with us? The Peatriet Molonna? Are they still?

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
Oh there, Yeah, they're still They're still around. Uh. They
occasionally make comments over. Bill and I also are members
of the Society for Planetary City Research, and occasionally they
join in some of the conversations. But they're they're older
guys now, they don't do much. I'm just curious. Life
you know, is named after them. The DNM pyramid in

(01:30:31):
the Sidonia area.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
I was wondering if they're if they had had uh
new imaging of that area, you know, so you could
get even more details of what the foundations look like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
And we have two Mars reconnaissance high rise images. I
mean you can get right down into the surface. Yeah,
we've got a lot of images of it. We'll be
talking about it in the paper.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Okay, looking forward to it. Hey you guys, fantastic, thanks
for joining me. I will post this on the Facebook page,
but also this will be available on the YouTube channel
as well so people can see the details. I really
appreciate your openness and obviously I'm on your team for

(01:31:18):
greater disclosure, and all we can do is cross our
fingers and hope that through some miracle, NASA JPL begin
releasing more concluded conclusions that Mars was once populated. So

(01:31:38):
I appreciate you guys joining me and I continue success.

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
Thanks, Cliff, enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Cliff, thanks for having us on.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
I think a number of these images that you will
see on the Facebook page are kind of, I don't
want to say, shocking, but revelatory in their shape size,
because all these these pyramids are miles high, miles wide,
and these faces that you see are the same. They're

(01:32:13):
a mile and a half to a mile wide. They're huge,
and this is something that's not really discussed even by
our friends George Hoss and Way Saunders. I haven't spoken
to I haven't spoken to Robert Schock about it, but
my thinking is that these people were doing and creating

(01:32:38):
these huge sculptural releafs for people to see them from
the heavens as they come in for a landing, as
they orbit the planet. These are monstrosities and this is
what we're looking at, and this is the work of
genius to plan out these monstrosities of human sculptures of animals.

(01:33:01):
I mean, George Hawks has a whole book of animals
in his most recent book, and most notably parrots, lions, tigers,
all kinds of odd animals, which makes you wonder how
much like Earth Mars must have been. We had to
find that out. We don't know so, but the bottom

(01:33:23):
line is we got to get boots on the ground,
boots on the ground, boots on the ground. So thanks
to George Haas and William Saunders. That was an interesting
and provocative interview and I appreciate it. Hey, we have
a tour coming up in Egypt. It's our semath Aniel

(01:33:43):
Grant Egyptian Tour April twenty eight through May tenth. We're
gonna be promoting it much more as the weeks come around.
This is a megalithic tour. Our focus is on megalithic sculptures.
Chris Dunn will be my guest at the end of
the month, and our focus will be the intense scrutiny
given to these megalithic monstrosities of statuary and how the

(01:34:11):
Egyptological community doesn't even consider them anomalies. And they are
anomalies because for the most part, the ones that are
considered Ramses the second and so forth are not Ramses.
They're not even close to his dynasty. They're perhaps thousands
of years before he was born, and they are works

(01:34:32):
of genius. But as Kristen will present to us in
October at the end of the month, they are machined.
They are completely machines. There's no carving done. It's all
done through either some kind of lasers, some kind of
cutting tool that cut these things with a level of
genius that is unheard of. So hey, we're gonna check

(01:34:54):
that out when we're in Egypt. For more information on
our Grand Egyptian Tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com
Forward Slash Tours, take a look at that, take a
look at the iterary, and join us register for that.
All right, that's it for this program. I think my
guest today George Haas William Saunders, and even though he

(01:35:16):
couldn't be here, we appreciate Robert Shock as always the
team of gal Tour, Mark Foster Feya, our Pakistani expert
in video. Thank you, Thank you, thank you. And you
guys rock all right. Take care of you well, and
we will talk to you next time.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
Sh

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George Haas & William Saunders: The Ruins of Mars, Part 2

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