June 3, 2025 • 54 mins
Would you submit to your husband and bake in heels for the vibe? Author, screenwriter, podcast queen, and all-round legend Clare Stephens joins Kee and Kelly to unpack the rise of tradwives - and why the aesthetic might be a lot more sinister than it looks. It’s a no-filter chat about the bizarre pressure to live like it’s 1953 - only now it comes with reels, ring lights, and a perfectly iced bundt cake.
LINKS TO EVERYTHING MENTIONED
https://www.vogue.com/article/problem-with-tradwives
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-trad-wife https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/more-than-womens-work/202409/the-tradwife-trend-is-a-risky-throwback
HOSTS & PRODUCERS
Kelly McCarren @kelly_mccarren
Kee Reece Searles @keereece
AUDIO PRODUCTION
Madeline Joannou - Mylk Media
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I already feel bad enough about that. Sometimes it's like
you're not putting the idea into my head. Hello, and
welcome back to Eat Sleep, Shit Repeat. The podcast soon
to have a name change, and if Kiri Cells had
her way, you would be referred to as Snott's because
(00:28):
she wanted to call it eat sleep snot Repeat. What
the actual fuck. I'm Kelly McCarran.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I'm Kiri's Cells, and Kell was pretty brutal with
her feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We're going to get straight into things today because we
have one hell of a guest later on in the episode.
But first, peek and pit. But we're gonna make it
snappy because our guest is more interesting than our silly
little problems in offense.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, Queen through the.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Ship and I'm up first this week, so I'll start
with my pit.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Last Friday, I was went for a lovely afternoon at
my sister in law's house and we just had such
a great time.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
She was giving me all of her old.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Daycare clothes for rue, all hanging out, and then about
two o'clock, I was like, all right, let's go. We'll
go get some sushi, get back to our normal Friday
mother daughter day with the girls. So I bundled the
girls into the car and off we went. I got
maybe just around the corner, and the sun was in
my eyes, and so I pulled down my visor and
guess what was right behind my sun visor? A huge, huge, hairy,
(01:29):
long leg, big bodied Huntsman spider, and I lost my shit.
I was on a main road and it was so bad.
I happened to also be drinking out of my drink
bottle at time, and I used my other hand to
pull down the visor. So at one stage I realized
I was driving with no hands on the wheel because
I automatically pushed the visor up to try and squish
(01:50):
the spider, realizing it's not flush. So when I pulled
it down, the spider was still there and then scurried.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Down onto the windshield the front.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Then I realized, okay, I had to like clock into
gear here, Like what am I going to do? The
kids are in the back. I'm definitely scared of spiders.
I was pretty much hyperventilating by this point and screaming
and ru was like screaming in the back because I'm screaming.
I managed to get across four rows of traffic and
then I just like throw my drink bottle with all
the water in it at the spider. Then I just
(02:21):
pulled into a random driveway, called my sister in law
and she switched into gear, came and got me. She
was like, you get in my car with Rue. I'll
stay with Suki. She checked that Suki was okay, and
we drove back to her house.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Jim should do Survivor, like, honest, she should do Survivor.
She would win. She's a woman you want around.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
She just switched into gear and she's really scared of
spiders too, But she was like, I haven't seen it,
so in my mind it doesn't exist. So she had
a good look, couldn't find it. Ended up spraying the
car with rid. She was like, you need to sit here,
eat food, have a glass of water, because she was like,
I have never seen you like that, rattled. She had
to move my car because it was blocking her curR
in and as she moved it, she saw the spider
(03:02):
kind of dying and crawling along the back window. So
we located the spider, but I could not drive home.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I called.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Charlie told him what happened, and I was like, I'm
not driving home, like I'm too nervous with the girls
in the car. It's also been raining heaps. It started
raining again, so he ended up picking me up later.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Can nature just stay outside?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I agree, and not in the car.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's like, you know what happens, it's from parking under
trees and huntsmen's drop out of trees into the car
and because they're warm, they crawl inside. So avoid parking
under trees when you're parking outside and hopefully that will help.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Can you please tell me now what your peak is
because I've got the hebgbis.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
So our family were in town, Charlie's sister, George and
her partner and our little new baby, Ronnie, so Suki's
little new cousin. It's just like so exciting for them
to come to town, Like they came at Easter and
we just had the best best time and.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Then they came back.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Actually, George and I had hens that we went to
on the Saturday, and George and I used to live
in Sydney together, so it was a little bit of
like the nostalgia for those times that we lived in
the same city, and then just all of us being
together on a Sunday at the local BOWLO like having
family time. We don't get to do it because they live,
you know, up north, so it's just.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Really nice anytime they come to town.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And even with my sister in law Gem and her husband,
like Charlie's brother that live here. They've got three girls
and Rue is just obsessed with them, obsessed with them.
So I think the most time we all spend together,
I just see their little cousin relationships.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Cousin relationships the best.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It's just so sweet and they just play so well together.
It's the big, supportive, nurturing, loving family that I have
always really wanted, and I feel like so happy to.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Have all, Like twenty year old Keys so happy.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
She's like, whoa, anyway, what's your pit? What's your pit?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
My pit is that I'm just so behind on my
comms and I'm just so bad at it and it's
really getting me down at the moment. It's not just
one area as well. It's like Facebook, Messenger, Instagram, my emails,
my actual text messages from my best friends. I'll go
on there sometimes to text someone and I'll be like, oh,
(05:19):
they messaged me three weeks ago and I just never responded.
And I know that you're going to be like, oh, Kelly,
give yourself a little bit of slack. You're very busy,
but you are also notoriously bad on comms, so I
feel like you're just making an excuse for both of
us being shit. So if anyone has like a hack
(05:40):
that if they were really bad at comms and then
they now are good at it and they have like
a weird little secret hack, please let me know what
that hack is, because it's really getting to me because
it adds like this other layer of stress that I'm
letting people down all the time.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Can I give you a hack now? Emoji is, using
those emojis, doing voice notes, using Siri to dictate messages
when you're in the car. It's really good. Like literally,
I say it all the time, Hey, sirius and Kelly
knew McCarry in a message, that's what you're saved in
my phone as and it'll be like what do you
want to to say? But I think taking the stress
out of the response. Don't be like, oh I need
(06:19):
to write back later, it's going to be too long.
If it's going to be too long to a voice note.
If it's going to be too long, dictate the message.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Anyway, that's my pit. My peak is that two weeks
ago Key, I had to call her straight away and
she was so proud of me. I had proper canulas
in my face and I didn't faint, I didn't get diarrhea,
nervous poos, I didn't vomit, I didn't have to light well.
I did have to lie down, sorry, but like I
didn't have a panic attack. I was okay, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It was amazing, what a win. I cannot believe you
didn't pass out.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Why does no one else not have gas? Because it
it didn't even really do anything. It was just such
a good distraction. Yeah, So I was focusing on that
and deep breaths and all that stuff that they tell
you to do. Anyway, I don't even know. I was
just so proud. Of course, if it was anywhere near
a vein, I'm sure I would still have an absolute meltdown.
(07:11):
But the fact that I did something so intensive because
a pr organized it, because like this new treatment in
Australia that I was trialing for work, and I didn't
know anything about it, which is my silly fault. But
I turn up and then the doctor's like, you know,
I'm signing everything, and she goes to your okay with
canulas in the face, and I said, I'm sorry, Oh
my god, no I am not okay, but I was there, Yeah,
(07:34):
what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Walk out?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And also you know then I would have ruined the
relationship with the pr if I'd walked out and not
ruined it. But there are just so many layers of
reasons why I couldn't just bail out at the last second.
So I was, oh, anyway, I did really well.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm honestly so proud of you because it wasn't just
a needle.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
It was a canula, like a thick and.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Like going underneath the skin for quite a while. Reminded
me almost like LiPo movements. You know when you see
hears of LiPo and they go back and forth under
the skin and you can kind of see the instrument.
That's what it was, and that was in your face,
Like I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Luke was making a noise watching it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I would too.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
It was anyway, I'm proud of you to.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Talk to me sometimes.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Dolores sometimes you have to be a high rideing bitch
to survive.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Okay, we have our first guest led Can I just
be a bitch for a sec chat?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And it is a good one.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Our guest today is none other than the delightful Claire Stevens,
friend of the pod and friend of ours. You definitely
have read, watched, or listened to some of Claire's work
because she is that bloody talented. It's actually kind of
annoying because she's so smart. She's just one of those
people that ticks every box. She is so smart and talented,
but she's also just really funny and really nice. Claire
(09:00):
is a digital content creator, screenwriter, editor and podcaster. She's
the former editor in chief at Mumma Mea, which is
obviously where we met her, and she has produced some
of the site's most viral content. She's the brains and
talent behind the top comedy podcast Canceled, which she hosted
with her twin Jesse for years and it was always charting.
She also launched the podcast but Are You Happy, which
(09:23):
debuted at number twenty three in the whole country on
the Australian Podcast Ranker and went on to be wildly successful.
She works as a writer and producer on the Binge
series Strife, and her first novel, The Worst Thing I've
Ever Done, is due to be released in spring. Claire
is also mum to a hilarious one year old Matilda
and a longtime shitter. She has been with us, supporting
(09:45):
us from the beginning, and we're so delighted to have
her on. Claire Stevens, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Who I'm so excited to be here. I am such
a devoted listener every episode.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
We know, so we just adore you. So that's why
we're like, even when we're reformatting the show, you were
the first person on our examples of like a shitter
led episodes.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh my gosh. When I heard you were having shitters on,
I was like, oh my god, should I reach out?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
But you know what, actually my example was it was
Claire Stevens, how the hell did I write a book
with a new boy?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yes, you did do that.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It's not an aspirational story, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
That, listen. I'm sure it involves lots of tears. Yes, yes,
many many, not just from Matilda. That's not what you
want to vent about today. No, what do you want
to venture about today.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Off, I have a rant, and I have to apologize
because it's longer than a minute.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's okay, to pease, I realized.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Okay, well, yeah, we weren't timing it, were we.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Whoops?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
We make a lot of rules and we break it
every single week.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yes, okay, are we ready for my Rantay? Okay? My
rant is generally about tradwives, but it goes in strange directions.
Everywhere I look, I'm being told that your children are
only young for such a short period of time, and
it is so incredibly important to spend that time with them,
that to work is actually morally wrong. There are conservative
commentators who say feminism has gone too far and it
(11:06):
pushed women outside the home, and now women are less
happy than ever because deep down we want to be
at home with our babies, but we've been forced by
angry feminists to go to work, and that stuffed up
the economy to the point where women now need to
work in order for most households to function. I want
to acknowledge that I do know a lot of women
who have to go back to work before they feel
emotionally ready, and there are a lot of mums who
would love to spend the early years at home with
(11:28):
their kids, and there are a lot of mums who
do and to be totally transparent. If money wasn't as
much of a pressure, I would probably work a little
bit less. However, the tradwife aesthetic slash discourse has got
to go. So much of this conservative bullshit is idealizing
a golden age that never existed. It never happened. There
was no time in history where women walked around barefoot
(11:50):
in silk slightly sexy nineties, doing crafts with their small
families and being this imaginary perfect parent. This childhood they
are asking us to create, never happened. Look at it
from the child's perspective. A generation ago, it was my
mum working with too many kids and not enough money,
no offense. Mum, I spent a lot of time in
front of the television and inventing games with my siblings,
(12:10):
and it was glorious. Two generations ago, it was my
nana also working several jobs with seven kids who got
no one on one time with their mother. Ever, three
generations ago, it was more children because contraception didn't exist.
So where my time goes to paid employment, that woman's
time went to her other fourteen children, and washing clothes
(12:31):
and cooking and cleaning took longer because the technology wasn't
there to expedite it. Before that, before industrialization and early capitalism,
the nuclear family didn't even exist. We lived in multi
generational homes which provided a village. So the grandmothers and
the aunties and the cousins were all helping out, and
everyone was caring for each other. So a mother might
be caring for a child but also their mother and
also whoever else needed it. And cooking and cleaning is work.
(12:54):
You cannot be constantly fully engaged with your child while
cooking and cleaning. It isn't possible. This idea of complete
self safe in the service of one child is a face,
and I refuse to be beat up with a made
up stick. I'll also say that that guy who did
that podcast episode about wanting a partner who didn't work
and just goes on hot girl walks and is happy
to see him at the end of the day, sir,
(13:14):
it sounds like you're unaware that life also happens to women.
Even if a woman doesn't work and doesn't fucking hate
housework like I do, she still might get the flu,
and her family member might be unwell, and she might
break her leg, and she might be stressed because the
fridge broke, and you need to be there to support her.
You not wanting to deal with the emotional load of
your partner having a job. Is actually you not wanting
to deal with the emotional load of having a partner.
(13:36):
But that is another topic altogether. I just wanted to
get that in. In conclusion, research shows that even with
more mums and dads working outside the home than ever,
modern parents are spending twice the amount of time with
their kids and parents fifty years ago. Stop glorifying a
golden age that never fucking existed, you misogynistic to us.
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm sorry, well done getting that off your chest.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I actually really do you.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Look every time.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I see those freakin videos on social media that are
saying like you know that one, it's Jordan Peterson's voice
in the background and it's like young, yes, young man.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
It's just so romanticized as well, because it's like, yeah
they are, but you know what, you still have to
pay bills when they're young, and they scream at you
were lost, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And like it just never happened. This year that we
are idealizing, Like I think the act of being a
parent is a constant exercise in guilt because you're never
gonna feel like you're enough for your child, and that
is kind of love, Like that's kind of what love is,
feeling like you always want to give me because if.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You feel like you've given enough, well, you know what,
you're probably pretty shit. You're a psychopath who doesn't love
them that much. Exactly if you think you're done.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
There's another like midwife such researcher who I always see
on TikTok and she is always like going on about
but breastfeeding and like the mum needing to be at
home for the first five years, and her vibe is
like if you're not going to be at home for
the first five years, like why did you even have
a child?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I'm like, well, that's how we all bought there
would be no.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Popular children human being.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I don't think I've ever heard it summarized so well
with the generational differences, yes, and the invention of machines
to help alleviate that stuff, Like, I don't think I've
ever heard read it that clearly because it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Is so true.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I mean I'm struggling so much at the moment with
the house, and it gets me down so much, to
the point where like people wanted to come and see
Suuki as a newborn, and I was saying, like, no,
but is.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That because you go on your phone and you see
everyone with their perfect esthetic house where it looks like
this kid doesn't even live. Yes, yes, And all the
trad wife content where they've got like full makeup, beautiful
gown on, it doesn't help and attached to their nipple,
and it's like, that's just not realistic.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
It doesn't help some of those creators who are doing
that content.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
What is it like when you turn that camera off?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Because I'm telling you, I'm spiraling about not even being
able to show up and I don't even care what
I look like on social media, but how you showing
up so perfectly? Like surely there has to be a
toll on that person showing up in that way. And
then the other point I wanted to make was just
about the fact that all of these tradwives are working.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Oh okay, that is the pyramid scheme of at all
every panel I see where it's a woman and she's like,
here's the case for not working. I'm like, what do
you call speaking on a panel? Yeah, on a panel
writing all of that. And I'm genuinely not saying that
there is anything wrong with mums who stay home. I reckon,
in an ideal world, I would love to have a
period like that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Why would you go for a hot girl walk every day?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I would freaking love that. And I think a lot
of people would love that or have done that. I
know so many incredible women who spent five years, seven years, whatever, yeah,
and like, good on them. I'm parts of being a
jealous of that. However, it's the tradwives who are like
making a living out of time talking about it, and
I'm like, no, no, no, no no. The definition of
(17:03):
what you are proposing is someone that's invisible, like technically
invisible because they're not writing or communicating.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
The other thing about it is like the class version
of it, because there are historically there's only one real
group of people that could actually afford not to work exactly.
And then the other thing is that the muddling of
stay at home mum and trad wife because I never
thought about it in that way, but I think what's
really clever and the way that trad Wives has kind
of got more momentum with it is piggybacking onto that.
(17:32):
So people that don't actually want to be a trad
wife are now all lumped into. You know, you might
want to be a stay at home mum, but you
don't want to be a trad wife, but you're a
lumped in together. So now there's this even higher level
of excellence perfection that we're meant to reach is stay
at home mums.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yea, and is so performative and it is so classist.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
It is so classist, and it's something I hadn't realized before,
Like everyone looks at those mums and I was like,
oh yeah, but be you know, objectively beautiful, have a
perfect house, have the option not to have to go
to work.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Every day even though you are going to work every
day by filming content, going on past yes, monetizing, and they're.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Probably making a whole lot more money than you. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Then their partner swans in like as if they've had
such a hard day.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Either of you.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Watched The Secret Live of Mormon?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Why no? But I need to, okay, because it's.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Really interesting because if you haven't seen the show, a
group of Mormons became very famous. There was a swinging scandal.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They've got a pilot out of it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
It's glorious, it's old housewives, it's raw reality TV, and
they just want to stab each other in the back.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's perfection.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
But what was really interesting about that is that all
of them have done so well and they're in this
very traditional relationship of genders. But because they're making so
much money, their partners are a little bit like, oh,
but now you're kind of outgrowing that. And one of
them gave their husband an ultimatum and he actually left
his medical school placement in order for her to be
(18:59):
in mom oh. But that I felt was really interesting
because a lot of these famous people are making enough
money to pay all of the bills, so then you're
not actually in a traditional gender at.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
All. You are the breadwinner.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love that honesty, though, that they're being honest about
when they're not being honest about the fact that they
are working and they are making bank and that they're
just like this silly little woman at home looking after
the children and baking things from scratch. That's what I
don't like because it completely like undermines all of the
progression that we have done over the past decades, longer
(19:36):
than that.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
But it's like stay at home mums generally are not
placing any judgment on the mums who go the traditional work.
I'm saying the majority. I'm sure there are something outline
and mums who go to work and not fucking passing
judgment on the state at home mums. But that's why
we get so freaking triggered by the ones on TikTok
who are yelling at us, because it's like, stop, I'm
(19:57):
not judging anyone, why are you yelling at.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But I also feel so guilty enough about my exactnesses
and you know, the days along but the years assured,
and then they'll post those things that go it's crazy
that for the first few years of our children's lives,
we see them for half an hour in the morning,
then we send them to daycare for someone else to
look after them while we go to work, and then
we see them. I already feel bad enough about that,
(20:24):
sometimes not for the time.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's like you're not putting the idea into my head.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I recently said something about you know those when something
awful happens and then people post like themselves crying and
they go make sure you hug your babies extra tight tonight.
Everyone was thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to point
it out and make other people feel really bad, like
and also like, does that mean that you think that
(20:50):
that person didn't hug their child like tight enough that
that doesn't awful happen?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Have perspective already because most of us do, and I
find but it's so incredibly unfair to do that to women.
And I do feel like this conservativism and this idea
of traditional values is creeping in further and further. And
we have probably all experienced the difference between a marriage
(21:16):
with kids breaking down where the mum worked and a
marriage with kids where it breaks down and the mother
didn't work, And how different the trajectory of that woman's life,
I know, And how unfair it is because all of us,
like we would love to think that the partners that
we have right now, we are going to be with
them for the rest of our lives, and they are
good men and they would look after us. But the
(21:36):
fact is that's not always the case. Statistically, Statistically, it's
not always the case, and it's not the case that
they would be that good human when things end because
there are men who don't pay child support in all
of that, and you end up being a woman who
is living a really fucking hard life. And I think
that the whole child wife thing is very ignorant.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Of that because it's take into consideration the one percent
who it doesn't matter if they break up because they're
earning enough bank themselves. But also even if they weren't,
like they would get enough in the breakup to set
themselves up for life and it doesn't matter. But it's
for all of the people in the lowest socioeconomic brackets
that they're the ones that are really impacted so much.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Your feminism was about us just having the opportunity to
do things, but also having something to fall back on,
making our own money, and I think that that creeping
in of those traditional values erases that, and then it
just makes us way more vulnerable to being able to
survive on our own, which is really scary, because surviving
on our own even in the way of like something
(22:41):
happening to your partner, you know. And then you're like,
because there was something I was reading, it was like
learned helplessness on both sides, right, Men are like, I
can't tie my shoelace.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Not that, but you know that's an example.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Stuff with the kids that they.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Can't do right, and then women are like, well, I
can't do my taxes, I can't do this, and that
like that's the stuff that will really negatively affect us
overall from that traditional wife then coming in, because that's
the stuff that's our power, and that's how we bring
ourselves out of stuff, being able to be fully functioning
in society without someone having to do that for us.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And that's so true that it's like the women that
you see on panels or TV shows or whatever talking
about like, oh, but my husband would never leave me
or whatever. It's like doesn't even have to be your
husband leaving. It could be your husband to die or
getting sick and medical bills, it could be more sorts
of unpredictable things. But I think what you said, Kelly
about people who are uber wealthy, they have the luxury
(23:37):
of buying into this idea. And there's this thing that
I've heard spoken about called luxury beliefs, and it's like
the kind of beliefs that, yeah, you can have if
you're privileged enough to have them. And I think the
traadwife thing is exactly that most of us. And the
same thing as like women not working. I'm like my
working class grandmother in I don't know, the nineteen forties,
(23:58):
nineteen fifties, whatever was working.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
She was working at what my nanny did for so
many years. She plucked chickens. She cannot eat a chicken,
although I think she does now because of her dementia,
she forgets that she hates chickens. She plucked chickens for years.
And yes there was a fair few years where she
wasn't working because she was looking after the four boys,
but that wasn't like this endless time that she was
(24:24):
spending with young children. She always had different jobs. And
the thing was is that one of her biggest regrets
is that she wanted to be a nurse. That's all
she wanted to do, but she couldn't because it wasn't
women didn't go to university, or if they did, it
was a huge deal. And so she was a dressmaker,
or she was plucking chickens, or she was also working
at a factory that my par worked at, but she
(24:47):
wasn't not working. And the same thing with my mom,
like even though my dad was the primary breadwinner. My
mom was always working because they wanted to do different
things and they had a big mortgage and it wasn't
an option not to.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, And it's almost like there's like a historical amnesia,
Like I look at my Nan, and my Nan had
to drop out of school in year eight because her
mum got sick, and her brothers were allowed to finish
school and continue education. But it's like, you're the girl,
so you have to be thirteen fourteen and looking after
the whole family, cooking, cleaning and all of that. And
(25:23):
I remember looking at my Nan at eighty and thinking, Nne,
you're really smart, Like it would have been so interesting
to see what it would have been like for her
to finish.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
If she'd been able to do what she wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, And it's like we know, like there are just
endless statistics about the value of education in every aspect
of like the depth of life that somebody's able to experience,
the kind of like cultural joys they can experience, and
then not to mention life expectancy and all of that.
But it's like the creeping in of these traditional values
(25:58):
then creeps in on that stuff. It's like, well, if
you're not gonna work, what's the point in education. I
think it's so dangerous. And I see debates play out
and I'm like, it's not a debate. The debate's done. Yeah,
did the debate we try to go?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah? And I also have a huge problem with the
women that comment on these videos saying, Oh, I totally
get what this person is saying, and I really love
just being a traditional at home, stay at home mum
or whatever. Okay, that's great, but you don't need to
encourage it. It's lovely that you are emotionally, mentally, and
(26:34):
financially okay enough to do that, and that's great for you.
But just like I wouldn't say that every single woman
should go be a nurse, you don't really need to
say that every woman should be doing this because it's
just not helpful and it's so dangerous, and it's also
so privileged of you to come to that sort of
opinion without considering everything that we just discussed with like, Okay,
(26:58):
well what if that man leaves the woman?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, that's true. I think about how far we've come
in the last few decades with gender and our understandings
of gender, and I love and I hope that the
way we're going is almost dismantling gender roles and gender
identity in a way that changes what our lives look like.
And then it's so bizarre that it's like this one
(27:21):
movement is going on one side where it's like what
is gender? Does this even matter? There's no gender binary?
And then on the other hand you have like, not
only do we believe in this absolute, immovable boundary, but
we believe that it should dictate how you live, Like
how also.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Exclude so many different groups of people, but the couples
exactly working mum, It excludes anyone that doesn't fit that
really traditional boring.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I don't think that that is like a mistake, though
I think one is because of the other. You know,
it's a direct reaction to that. And I loved something
I read It was like we've gone from girl boss
to tradwife, And I think that that's nomous steak as well,
because there is this ideal that really appeals to some women. Yeah,
and the girl bossed it so hard that now they're like,
I need a tad wife, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Like it's interesting that how.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
These different movements end up influencing something else, and it's
always the pendulum swinging from far side to far side.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
And I think it's like the medium is the message.
I think it's because there is no room for nuance
on the internet because the girl Boss movement had issues too.
It's like T.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Shirts with hashtag girl boss and it Oh oh god,
I was that that.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Had a choke hold on me. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I was just like, I have to girl boss.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
This is lean in. Like I was so into it.
I was so into it. And then I think it's
having a baby that re clarifies it for you, and
it's like, hold on, this is more complex than that.
And I was really conscious Key, I don't know if
you feel this, but like I did a podcast maybe
six weeks after Matilda was born, and then I remember
I did one where no one could look after her.
(28:58):
So I did a podcast with her st to me
in the podcast studio. Yeah, and there was a video
of it, and I was so conscious of like, I'm
not doing this as a value statement, like I'm not yeah,
I'm doing it because it was possible in that moment,
and she happened to sleep, and there was every possibility.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
She was going to wake up.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, I am not saying that women should do this.
I know I don't particularly want to be doing this
right now.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Well, I had a little like freak out the other
day just because I'm very not good with my confidence.
A lot of the audience who were listening to that
wrote and then were like, you know, you just back
at work and inspiring, and I'm thinking like, oh no, no,
I'm not trying to be like and now I'm back working.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
No, I'm a freelancer.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I need to be back in order for us to
like be able to make money as a family.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
This is not aspirational.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
And I think that's the other thing about the Internet
that like no room for nuance. But it also has
become this weird thing where we think that everything someone
else does is a statement on us. And then that's
what annoys me about the trad wife thing is because
it's being explicit about that. Like if I see somebody
who's taken a year's matt leave and just looks like
(30:05):
they are in heaven, which I see all the time,
and I get a pang of jealousy, I'm like, ooh,
I've got to think about that. That's about me, that's
not about them, but with the child wife stuff that
is explicitly just getting a knife and going into that
area women.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Because it doesn't exist. Yeah, it's just yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think your sister actually because she was so open
when she was postpartum about loving it yeah yeah, and
really loving being on Matt leave, and that she really
liked her birth and she was actually really happy. And
she was talking about how it was weird because a
lot of the conversations are prior to her having that,
she'd felt like it was all going to be just
(30:47):
like quite negative.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But me and my.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Sister, who both had awful experiences postpartuman in birth, we're
talking about it, and we were saying it was actually
so refreshing and nice to hear someone speak about it
in a way that was different, but also not twisting
a knife in any way. She was really appreciating it,
and it was actually really nice to hear that perspective,
which is why it's you need to have different opinions
(31:12):
and perspectives because otherwise the conversation would be so boring.
But you need to be able to have the conversation
not just think that it's your way or the high way,
because none of us are saying that it's bad to
be a stay at home mum and want to cook
and clean for your partner and your family. But we
are saying that it's bad if you're saying that that's
the only way to do things.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yes, it's going to say they're all white.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
He they are all white, and they all not all No,
they're not white. Nara Smith is not white. True, true,
Like it's dangerous because their views not there maybe personally,
and also they probably don't loudly and proudly say their
political beliefs, but some of them are just really far right.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Some of them are quite political in what they say,
like a lot of them are. I think it does
have like a religious understroyed for shit does.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
But that adds to how dangerous it can be.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Completely I agree.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I saw a panel discussion recently. I don't know if
you guys saw it. It was on Piers Morgan and
there was Clementine Ford and she was the only one
on this panel who was arguing against the trad wife vibe.
And then there was a husband and wife and another
woman and it was like she was mocked the whole time.
She was made fun of, And I was like Oh
my god, this is what we're living in, where like
(32:29):
she would.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Have also just been saying what I just said, that
it's not bad if you want to yes, yes, but
don't tell other people. And then they're making fun of
her for that.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yeah yeah, and it went all these clips from it
went viral, just made fun of her, and I was like,
oh my god, this is the world we're living in,
where like she is mocked and the power lies with
these conservatives who also set it up so it can't
be argued. Like I was like a panel where three
of the four people and the host were against Yeah, argument,
(32:59):
that's panel. Like, No, I don't know if you guys
get all the Ben Shapiro stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
He terrifies me. But I also is his name Dean Withers,
Dean the kind of blondie guard. Yes, he's like twenty
years old.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yes, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I want him and that bloke from that shitty Australian
podcast to have a debate. That's what I want because
he's the only twenty year old I want to listen to.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yes, who was able to argue against him? Like there's
a British woman actually who was able to argue against.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm just period so many things. Ben Shapiro, He's just
why do you have points that make sense about something?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
No, there is a difference between somebody being educated enough
to articulate and argument well and argue a point well
and that point itself being valid. Like they are two
different things.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, and so true.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Sometimes I see someone I'm like, wow, you are so smart.
You're an excellent debater, like excellent strategies of like tearing
apart in argument. I do not agree with your argument
at all, And it's like smart people. That's the thing
about smart people can argue even illogical, deeply flawed things
very very very well well and make you question.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I mean, obviously there are some things that he could
never make me question, but he does still always have
really strong arguments, which if you're not that confident with
your own critical thinking, maybe then you could watch something
like that. He's got such a big platform and think, yeah,
you're right.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And he speaks so fast and he interrupts people.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
I've got a list of about five people I never
want to debate with.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
The I can live knowing I'm right and you're wrong
and never.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Have to have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
You would put me in my place, and you would
make me doubt every single thing about myself and my
brain within five seconds. We can't have the tried wife
conversation without touching on the ridiculousness and complete unrelatable of
just how much it leans on that heavily aesthetic interest beige.
Their houses look like no children actually live there. Their
(35:00):
kitchens are always spotless, everything is made from scratch. The
toddlers aren't ever screaming at them about the baked goods
being ready or being cut up in a certain way.
Like there's nothing about the content that is a reflection
of real life, which is fine if it's not designed
to like, if your content is kind of like not
(35:22):
designed to be relatable, if it's just like, oh my gosh,
like I'm doing special effects makeup or I'm a high
fashion girlie. But this obviously isn't stuff that you just wear.
Generally is very different to when it's being portrayed in
a way that they are trying to make out that
it's real life and that that's just what every day
actually looks like.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And the implication is if you lived like this, your
life would be calm.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
And stressed, free to and you also you speak like this,
to speak slowly and make bubble gum from scratch.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
There's no screaming children. You have enough space where your
children are playing somewhere else, which.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
There's obviously a nanny. Yes, because you're working. You're not
a stay at home mum. And the traditional definition.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Of that, because if it was, there would be mess
everywhere because no one can clean up as they go
that well, you would hear the children babbling, asking questions,
then screaming. One of them would have a tantrum, one
of them would fight with the other one.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I know. Yeah, they hire a studio like maybe Marcle.
It's just all like a film. I didn't realize before
I had a child was how much being a picky
eater is innate. I always assumed that it was like nurture,
that maybe, like my mum was too fucking busy to
like introduce me to different textures, hence why I'm a pigire. Yeah,
(36:44):
but having like experiment like Jesse has a child, I
have a child. I am lazy with food. I do
not do anything exceptional and my child will eat anything
that is biology. But watching Luna and Matilda, who at
like if you compared them at the same age. Luna
is picky and it is nothing that Jesse has done,
(37:05):
and Matilda will eat anything. It is nothing that I
have done.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I've heard Jesse talk about like she's home cooking and
being so careful about everything that is in different things.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
She does so much more than me, and I'm like,
that is actually so unfair. And the tradwife thing, whereas
Narah Smith doing all her bloody, weird milks and her
weird foods. I'm like, those kids they are eating that.
That is not an environmental thing. That is luck and
it is not that if anyone behaved like that, they
guess we'll freaking eat that. No.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
And I was definitely like that at the beginning, and
Rue I only wanted to eat pasta, so I just
gave that up. I was just like, fine, you will
eat that stuff when you want to eat that stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm not gonna waste my time anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah. I do not cook anymore through the week at all.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah. Well, the other day she was like, can I
have some carrots? And I was like whoa.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So then I cooked her some carrots and she ate
all of them and I was like, carrots are in
I put them to bed. I didn't worry about it
and said she'll get there in the end, and she does, because.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
They get exposed in other places.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
If your kids at daycare, they're getting exposed totally.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I love seeing them.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
They're eating together at their little table, like all together,
like a little cult.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
It's so cute.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Is not at daycare yet?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
No, she's doing though. I'm going to a place called
Bubba Desk once a week where her working space with
a crate. I want to ask you and essentially charge
it on site, which is great for me a day
roughly about saying okay, one sixty. I structure my day
by being like, Okay, I'm going to do some writing,
(38:35):
I'm gonna do whatever task, and then I'm going to
go and put her down for a nap, and then
I'll come and give her a lunch. Like It's a
really nice way, and it's also good for if you're
still breastfeeding care and then they'll message you and be
like hungry.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
She wants she wants to can they be.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Or Matilda was very little. I did a few days
when Matilda was maybe like four months.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Okay, I was actually gonna ask you about this because
I'm kind of thinking about my.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
She's just starting to get a bit vocal.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
And I'm also like sitting here all day working and
she's looking at me like, bitch, I have developed more.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, I wanted things to do.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
She really wanted it when I arrived this morning because
I entertained her.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That actually made me feel really bad.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I was like, I just do not play with her enough.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Jess, and I always say it when I walk into
Jesse's place. Me and Luna have our own little games.
Jesse has her own little games with Matilda. And I'm like,
I can't make her laugh like that. You can't make
Luna laugh like this. But again, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's gonna make you both feel a bit bad. I
can make my kids laugh like.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
No one else. You're a performer, however, perform.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Also, you both know he is the most clingy mummies
boy in the entire world, and that is that is why.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
You're a little man. But I do think like there
are these little fleeting thoughts that you have throughout motherhood, right,
and I am working with my psychologist on these thoughts
at the moment, Like all those little thoughts, which is like, wait,
why can somebody else make my child laugh more. And
that's why the child wife stuff piss me off so much,
because I'm like, do not poke at the insecurities like
(40:10):
they are there. The mental health toll of those narratives
as you are a mother is like, I think there
are some amazing mental health benefits to being a parent,
and I think there are some real challenges. Yes, I
have a lot of friends who say, like, I don't
want to have a child because I struggle with my
mental health, and I'm like, reconsider that, because I think
(40:31):
having a child can be exposure therapy for a lot
of shit.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Also, they force you to get out of bed in
the money exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Depression. My thing with depression exactly. My thing was always
like lethargy. And then I'd get into a cycle where
it's like I feel shit because i haven't got out
of bed and I'm.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Over the head exactly for a few days and you.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Can't is actually a form of therapy, and I genuinely
think it is exposure therapy for perfection because it's like,
your kids not perfect, and you learn that you love
them as much as you could possibly love anyone anyway, Yeah,
and then you kind of start to look at yourself
like that, and then you're like, no day is going
to be perfect, nothing I do is going to be perfect,
(41:13):
and yet this little human is growing and developing still,
Like I genuinely think it's like a mental such a
good point, like I do think there are parts of
my mental health that have improved, but then I think
there are challenges, and I think some of that fucking
content just plays in.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
It's true because it's like all the mean stuff that
you say in your head or not necessarily mean, like
negative or questioning things that you do, and then looking
at someone who's telling you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Like, you're right, you need to be better off.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
You would be better off to the right person that
is really going to resonate and just make them feel awful,
and it makes me feel awful and I know better, And.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I think the darkest thought a mother can have, and
I think depending on how your mental health has been
as a parent, you might have had this, Kelly, because
I know I have this every now and then you
have it where it's like, oh am, I even the
best mother for my child, would somebody else be at.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The darkest thoughts is when you think you look at
them and you go you would be so much better
off without me exactly. When you're feeling clarity and not
like that, you're like, of course that, you're like, that's.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Such an logical thought. But when you're in the depths
of it, that's the thought you have, and that's the
thought that some of this shit presses on because it's
like because then you're like, well, I'm not the stay.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
At home mum, I'm not all the time smiling.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I'm not that maybe they would be better off with
somebody else, Like it's so.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
And there's no way that that mum could achieve that exactly.
So it's like they're just like, I'm just warning my
kid's laugh.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
And that's why social media can be so dangerous though
when it comes to these things, is that, yes, of
course you can look at it. It's just a form
of entertainment. But when they're hammering different, really dangerous messages home.
If you're already feeling so shit and you are looking
at your kid and you're thinking, oh my god, you'd
be so much better off without me, you open up
your phone. You open up your phone for entertainment or
(43:00):
the news, maybe mainly to if you open up TikTok,
you're looking for a little bit of entertainment, looking for
a giggle, if you will. You're not looking for everything.
You've just been feeling to be completely validated by a
stranger with an objectively perfect house, perfect face, perfect children,
(43:20):
smugly telling you exactly what you've just thought.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
It's true. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's how we started the pod.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, and that bit funny, and I have to say,
very unperfect.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I don't know if I've told you guys this, but
I was struggling very early on with We had a
thing where Matila just didn't latch in the first place,
and then the breastfeeding kind of never never works off pumping.
I was like triple feeding, you know when it's like
and then you're pumping and then your formula for all
that stuff. I was doing that for like five months,
and I think I got to that five months and
(43:53):
I was so broken and emotional and I was like,
I want to feel permission to stop. I have not
felt it, and I was almost looking for it, and
it was u Key. I think you were talking about
your breastfeeding journeys. I think UK said something like giving
a bottle is really cute, and that was it. I
was like giving a.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Bottle is cute. You can't see their little face, no,
you can see and then look the way that they're
like caress your arm and when they.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Hold it with their tiny hand and the bottle is
so big, and you're just.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Like how the bottle it's so cute. And it was
you guys admitting like, well, not admitting like that even
sounds bad, but it was you guys being honest about
your journeys and how different they were. That it's like
ket you enjoyed it and all of that. But it
was like that she wait, like there was there's all
that kind of stuff. It's like so many different reasons
(44:46):
for it not to work, and it is not your
fucking fault. No, And then I was like, I fucking
did it five months, like I'm good, and that was
like the permission. But I could have gone for another
six months and my mental.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Health would have just continued it fine decline. I recently
got kicked out of a Facebook group before for yelling
at someone who was, you know, very pushing the breast
is best. I got so cranky, I said times.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It wouldn't be a thing, I know, because the fed's
best doesn't rhyme yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Like catch anyway, listen, at the end of the day,
I probably wasn't the kindest person to this woman. Yeah,
I was removed from the group. Well, and I don't
often comment because I have a lot of opinions and
I have a lot of thoughts. But I don't often
ever comment because I'm like, I don't want to argue
with strangers on the internet, which is a.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Normal response to things that you see on the internet, Right,
I just want to say that is the normal. You
are the normal person, and that's you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Not the normal. Well, what I did that day, which
was start arguing with the stranger on the internet and
then called her called her names because she was making
other people feel But I didn't call her names, but
I probably did a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Kelly, you're gonna get canceled.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Someone's gonna listen to this and be like, I thought
that was her.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I thought I recognized her pop picture and her name.
I'm scared by it. Don't shame other women about breastfeeding.
I will shame you for breastfeeding then.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
And that's the other thing about the breastfeeding thing, Like
everyone's like breast is best like and you see the
Likectatian consultants who are as saints, and I get it,
and I get it, but it's like, believe me, in
my bones, I know that breast is best. Yeah, I
fucking know. I'm actually not naive.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Like so it's not brand neuine, it's not.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
New information, I know. So you telling me that actually
just confirms that any thought I had about like yeah,
but maybe this is making me really struggle and I'm
not okay and I'm an insane person and I can't
have a social life and I.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Can't work, and my boobs hurt, I keep getting messed outs.
Whatever it is. You know what, if you really want
to start arguing about what is best for the baby,
vaginal birth is without an EPI, yeah, probably arguably it
could be the best. You know what, I'm not doing that,
no introest. I would not, no, unless it was I
had to.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Oh sorry, we're saying it in the company of miss
miss Home Bertha Miss home.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Birth didn't get across the line. No, but you're.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Still laboring without paint relief.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
I'm like, yeah, I just enjoyed it, which I know
sounds crazy, and I don't want to get into that
conversation but I did enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
I do think that there is this weird part of
your brain that's activated towards like in pregnancy, and especially
towards the end of pregnancy where you do go a
bit earth mother and you go you go full. Maybe
I have a really high pain threshold. And then I
learned one centimeter, but I didn't that I.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Absolutely did not contraction that I have the least amount
of pain. But I also think everyone is so different.
Like I have a girlfriend that genuinely didn't think it
was that bad.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Oh, I think I do have.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
A high pain through because I had shingles the other
day and I was like out looking at houses being.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Like, oh my god, this is quite painful, and.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
It's that is meant to be really paying. It wasn't
just the laboring like it's been confired.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Actually, I had a procedure done where I had canuless
put in my face also as a needle frobe sleigh
that I took pay.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Okay, I thought that when I saw you getting a
hate needles and that needle is near your eye.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I've never had the gas before, so I didn't know
what to do. That poor lady, how did she not
lose her shit? Laughing at it makes you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
High or drunk. I didn't take it. I don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
When I was like super pregnant and had the compacted bow, you.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Know, like, oh, I mean the.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Time that you ended up in hospital, Like what a
delicate way to say that you were literally full of
shit and doctor Matt he just had to help you.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Can I tell you this?
Speaker 4 (48:36):
They took me up to the delivery suite or whatever
because they didn't know what was going on. And I
was sucking on this thing for so long because I
was in so much pain. It's super painful. And Charlie
liked said to the midwives like, hey, is it okay that,
like she's sucking for the baby, and they're like, oh,
it's been on oxygen for ages, there's no gas.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
And I was like, it's just like I was literally
he told me that, and I.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Was like, bitches, it's like, also, don't tell me like placebo,
like let me enjoy this.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I have no idea.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
He told me months old, months after and a hind man,
I mean, I get it, but like I wasn't a.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Lot of pain too.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
It's really it's really.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Good but placebo effect. I think that's how I did
the needles in the face because the gas. I wasn't
sucky enough to do much, but it was such a
distraction and I couldn't see it. Even though I was
filming myself, I couldn't see it. And I was just
like yabbering away asking her odd questions, and yeah, I
think it was just destruction so very sam.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I forgot we had the gas during the home birth,
and you know, like in the days after birth, like
the midwife's checking with me, like how's your mental health?
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Like are you you know, you have like a.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Bit of a baby blues moment and mine latched onto
the berth for like a hot minute and she was like,
you know, how are you feeling about the birth? And
I'm like I just keep like replying the fact that
we didn't use the.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Gas, like how do I use the gas? And she
was like, key, I cannot stress this enough. It wouldn't
have made a difference, would.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Not have opened enough to let yeah evenly like you oh, anyway.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
But I think it's such a normal thing with birth
that you convinced.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yourself it was something you did.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
So yeah, And my.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Big thing is and I think I told you this key,
this was my theory about your first birth, Like I've
imposed my own theory to you.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Did you talk about it with your psychologist?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yes? So there was a storm and my water broke,
and apparently a midwife told me afterwards that something with
the drop in barometric pressure can rupture waters and so
a lot of women go into labor when there's a storm, right,
But I convinced myself. I was like, so what happened
was my waters broke before they should have and that's
why Matilda flopped into the wrong position, and that's why
(50:48):
I didn't fully dilate, and that's why my birth was awful.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
And yeah, I ended up weather's fault if you think
about it.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yes, But then I'm like, oh, it was the fact
that I got dural. Then I'm like it didn't even
freaking work. And then I'm like, was I pushing properly?
Like all of that share goes through your head and
you convince yourself that like it was actually your fault, which.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
Is just because you like, you find a reason like, well,
that has to be my fault, and it's like yeah,
but you can't control the fuck and wear.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
That and so yeah, yeah, yeah, and some just happens
and it's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
And it is okay.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Anyway, let's wrap this up because we, the three of us,
could probably just keep here. We could Birth Stories. Don't
tempt this, because we will. I'll go out get us
the bottle of water for it. We'll just sit around
and thank you so much Claire for oh please any time.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
I love this show so much. I'm just anyone who
will listen. I'm like, here's a podcast, here go, here go.
I just I think it's genuinely so important. We'll have
mums being.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Honest, we hope. So recommendations, Kyri Cells, what have you got?
Speaker 4 (51:57):
I wanted to recommend my breast pump this week. It
is the Licevo wearable breast pump. Look, it is not cheap,
so I realize it is hard times at the moment.
I was actually gifted this, So it just depends where
you're out and how much money you want to spend
on a breast pump. This is just over five hundred dollars.
But when I was out the other night, my sister
in law borrowed it because we both needed to pump
(52:19):
and dump at the hens and she commented about how
good it was. She was like, oh my god, I
think I'm gonna have to get this pump because she
said it was just the same as the.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Baby being on.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
And it isn't super loud like when we were out
you could not hear it at all. And it's super comfy.
It's just really good, easy to use, easy to dissemble
and clean, and comes in like a really cute little
leather pouch. It's just great and I can't recommend it enough.
I had a really shitty pump the first time around,
so my pumping experience, I was very scared and hesitant
to start pumping this time around, and it has made
(52:53):
the biggest difference. So if you're looking for a great pump,
highly recommend the lice Evo.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I've got a rogue recommendation today, but it's the hydro
Mamma by Minni and Me. It's basically just like an
electrolyte sachet that you pop in your water. My favorite
is the cola. It tastes like post mix from the
movies that's watered down a little bit, which is so yummy.
I need to have a lot of salt in my
diet and the electrolytes. Whenever I haven't had this for
(53:20):
a few days, I notice it. I get dizzy, I
get vertigo, I get stomach cramps. It is so good
and they've got so many different yummy flavors. It's also
perfect to have on hand even if you don't need
it on the rag because it is quite expensive as well,
but to have on hand for people, because it's good
for kids as well, if you've got gastro in the house,
or just anything where you're not having enough fluids, if
(53:43):
you're sick, if you're pregnant and sick, this really icy
when you're vomiting in the first trimestol throughout your pregnancy.
Holly duly, it would be delicious.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
I actually use this for my pregnancy, so I second that.
And you can buy like a mixed flavor the first
time around, so that you can tie all the flavors
to figure out which.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
One you like.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
That one's your face and I really liked the was
it pomegranate?
Speaker 1 (54:09):
The purple one?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Oh yes, yum yummy.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
That one was so good.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
And you can turn them into icy poles anyway. They're
just very multi use. Absolutely love them. But on that note,
this episode has been going for far too long, but
hopefully you've really enjoyed it. Key's got another shitty happy
to change. So we are going to love you and
leave you, and the only thing we're going to say
is make sure you're following us and the episode production.
(54:34):
Thank you Maddie, Thank you shitters.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Bye bye.
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I already feel bad enough about that. Sometimes it's like
you're not putting the idea into my head. Hello, and
welcome back to Eat Sleep, Shit Repeat. The podcast soon
to have a name change, and if Kiri Cells had
her way, you would be referred to as Snott's because
(00:28):
she wanted to call it eat sleep snot Repeat. What
the actual fuck. I'm Kelly McCarran.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And I'm Kiri's Cells, and Kell was pretty brutal with
her feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We're going to get straight into things today because we
have one hell of a guest later on in the episode.
But first, peek and pit. But we're gonna make it
snappy because our guest is more interesting than our silly
little problems in offense.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, Queen through the.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Ship and I'm up first this week, so I'll start
with my pit.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Last Friday, I was went for a lovely afternoon at
my sister in law's house and we just had such
a great time.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
She was giving me all of her old.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Daycare clothes for rue, all hanging out, and then about
two o'clock, I was like, all right, let's go. We'll
go get some sushi, get back to our normal Friday
mother daughter day with the girls. So I bundled the
girls into the car and off we went. I got
maybe just around the corner, and the sun was in
my eyes, and so I pulled down my visor and
guess what was right behind my sun visor? A huge, huge, hairy,
(01:29):
long leg, big bodied Huntsman spider, and I lost my shit.
I was on a main road and it was so bad.
I happened to also be drinking out of my drink
bottle at time, and I used my other hand to
pull down the visor. So at one stage I realized
I was driving with no hands on the wheel because
I automatically pushed the visor up to try and squish
(01:50):
the spider, realizing it's not flush. So when I pulled
it down, the spider was still there and then scurried.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Down onto the windshield the front.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Then I realized, okay, I had to like clock into
gear here, Like what am I going to do? The
kids are in the back. I'm definitely scared of spiders.
I was pretty much hyperventilating by this point and screaming
and ru was like screaming in the back because I'm screaming.
I managed to get across four rows of traffic and
then I just like throw my drink bottle with all
the water in it at the spider. Then I just
(02:21):
pulled into a random driveway, called my sister in law
and she switched into gear, came and got me. She
was like, you get in my car with Rue. I'll
stay with Suki. She checked that Suki was okay, and
we drove back to her house.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Jim should do Survivor, like, honest, she should do Survivor.
She would win. She's a woman you want around.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
She just switched into gear and she's really scared of
spiders too, But she was like, I haven't seen it,
so in my mind it doesn't exist. So she had
a good look, couldn't find it. Ended up spraying the
car with rid. She was like, you need to sit here,
eat food, have a glass of water, because she was like,
I have never seen you like that, rattled. She had
to move my car because it was blocking her curR
in and as she moved it, she saw the spider
(03:02):
kind of dying and crawling along the back window. So
we located the spider, but I could not drive home.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I called.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Charlie told him what happened, and I was like, I'm
not driving home, like I'm too nervous with the girls
in the car. It's also been raining heaps. It started
raining again, so he ended up picking me up later.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Can nature just stay outside?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I agree, and not in the car.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's like, you know what happens, it's from parking under
trees and huntsmen's drop out of trees into the car
and because they're warm, they crawl inside. So avoid parking
under trees when you're parking outside and hopefully that will help.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Can you please tell me now what your peak is
because I've got the hebgbis.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
So our family were in town, Charlie's sister, George and
her partner and our little new baby, Ronnie, so Suki's
little new cousin. It's just like so exciting for them
to come to town, Like they came at Easter and
we just had the best best time and.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Then they came back.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Actually, George and I had hens that we went to
on the Saturday, and George and I used to live
in Sydney together, so it was a little bit of
like the nostalgia for those times that we lived in
the same city, and then just all of us being
together on a Sunday at the local BOWLO like having
family time. We don't get to do it because they live,
you know, up north, so it's just.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Really nice anytime they come to town.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And even with my sister in law Gem and her husband,
like Charlie's brother that live here. They've got three girls
and Rue is just obsessed with them, obsessed with them.
So I think the most time we all spend together,
I just see their little cousin relationships.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Cousin relationships the best.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It's just so sweet and they just play so well together.
It's the big, supportive, nurturing, loving family that I have
always really wanted, and I feel like so happy to.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Have all, Like twenty year old Keys so happy.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
She's like, whoa, anyway, what's your pit? What's your pit?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
My pit is that I'm just so behind on my
comms and I'm just so bad at it and it's
really getting me down at the moment. It's not just
one area as well. It's like Facebook, Messenger, Instagram, my emails,
my actual text messages from my best friends. I'll go
on there sometimes to text someone and I'll be like, oh,
(05:19):
they messaged me three weeks ago and I just never responded.
And I know that you're going to be like, oh, Kelly,
give yourself a little bit of slack. You're very busy,
but you are also notoriously bad on comms, so I
feel like you're just making an excuse for both of
us being shit. So if anyone has like a hack
(05:40):
that if they were really bad at comms and then
they now are good at it and they have like
a weird little secret hack, please let me know what
that hack is, because it's really getting to me because
it adds like this other layer of stress that I'm
letting people down all the time.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Can I give you a hack now? Emoji is, using
those emojis, doing voice notes, using Siri to dictate messages
when you're in the car. It's really good. Like literally,
I say it all the time, Hey, sirius and Kelly
knew McCarry in a message, that's what you're saved in
my phone as and it'll be like what do you
want to to say? But I think taking the stress
out of the response. Don't be like, oh I need
(06:19):
to write back later, it's going to be too long.
If it's going to be too long to a voice note.
If it's going to be too long, dictate the message.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Anyway, that's my pit. My peak is that two weeks
ago Key, I had to call her straight away and
she was so proud of me. I had proper canulas
in my face and I didn't faint, I didn't get diarrhea,
nervous poos, I didn't vomit, I didn't have to light well.
I did have to lie down, sorry, but like I
didn't have a panic attack. I was okay, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It was amazing, what a win. I cannot believe you
didn't pass out.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Why does no one else not have gas? Because it
it didn't even really do anything. It was just such
a good distraction. Yeah, So I was focusing on that
and deep breaths and all that stuff that they tell
you to do. Anyway, I don't even know. I was
just so proud. Of course, if it was anywhere near
a vein, I'm sure I would still have an absolute meltdown.
(07:11):
But the fact that I did something so intensive because
a pr organized it, because like this new treatment in
Australia that I was trialing for work, and I didn't
know anything about it, which is my silly fault. But
I turn up and then the doctor's like, you know,
I'm signing everything, and she goes to your okay with
canulas in the face, and I said, I'm sorry, Oh
my god, no I am not okay, but I was there, Yeah,
(07:34):
what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Walk out?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And also you know then I would have ruined the
relationship with the pr if I'd walked out and not
ruined it. But there are just so many layers of
reasons why I couldn't just bail out at the last second.
So I was, oh, anyway, I did really well.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm honestly so proud of you because it wasn't just
a needle.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
It was a canula, like a thick and.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Like going underneath the skin for quite a while. Reminded
me almost like LiPo movements. You know when you see
hears of LiPo and they go back and forth under
the skin and you can kind of see the instrument.
That's what it was, and that was in your face,
Like I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Luke was making a noise watching it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I would too.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
It was anyway, I'm proud of you to.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Talk to me sometimes.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Dolores sometimes you have to be a high rideing bitch
to survive.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Okay, we have our first guest led Can I just
be a bitch for a sec chat?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And it is a good one.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Our guest today is none other than the delightful Claire Stevens,
friend of the pod and friend of ours. You definitely
have read, watched, or listened to some of Claire's work
because she is that bloody talented. It's actually kind of
annoying because she's so smart. She's just one of those
people that ticks every box. She is so smart and talented,
but she's also just really funny and really nice. Claire
(09:00):
is a digital content creator, screenwriter, editor and podcaster. She's
the former editor in chief at Mumma Mea, which is
obviously where we met her, and she has produced some
of the site's most viral content. She's the brains and
talent behind the top comedy podcast Canceled, which she hosted
with her twin Jesse for years and it was always charting.
She also launched the podcast but Are You Happy, which
(09:23):
debuted at number twenty three in the whole country on
the Australian Podcast Ranker and went on to be wildly successful.
She works as a writer and producer on the Binge
series Strife, and her first novel, The Worst Thing I've
Ever Done, is due to be released in spring. Claire
is also mum to a hilarious one year old Matilda
and a longtime shitter. She has been with us, supporting
(09:45):
us from the beginning, and we're so delighted to have
her on. Claire Stevens, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Who I'm so excited to be here. I am such
a devoted listener every episode.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
We know, so we just adore you. So that's why
we're like, even when we're reformatting the show, you were
the first person on our examples of like a shitter
led episodes.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh my gosh. When I heard you were having shitters on,
I was like, oh my god, should I reach out?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
But you know what, actually my example was it was
Claire Stevens, how the hell did I write a book
with a new boy?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yes, you did do that.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It's not an aspirational story, I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
That, listen. I'm sure it involves lots of tears. Yes, yes,
many many, not just from Matilda. That's not what you
want to vent about today. No, what do you want
to venture about today.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Off, I have a rant, and I have to apologize
because it's longer than a minute.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's okay, to pease, I realized.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Okay, well, yeah, we weren't timing it, were we.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Whoops?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
We make a lot of rules and we break it
every single week.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yes, okay, are we ready for my Rantay? Okay? My
rant is generally about tradwives, but it goes in strange directions.
Everywhere I look, I'm being told that your children are
only young for such a short period of time, and
it is so incredibly important to spend that time with them,
that to work is actually morally wrong. There are conservative
commentators who say feminism has gone too far and it
(11:06):
pushed women outside the home, and now women are less
happy than ever because deep down we want to be
at home with our babies, but we've been forced by
angry feminists to go to work, and that stuffed up
the economy to the point where women now need to
work in order for most households to function. I want
to acknowledge that I do know a lot of women
who have to go back to work before they feel
emotionally ready, and there are a lot of mums who
would love to spend the early years at home with
(11:28):
their kids, and there are a lot of mums who
do and to be totally transparent. If money wasn't as
much of a pressure, I would probably work a little
bit less. However, the tradwife aesthetic slash discourse has got
to go. So much of this conservative bullshit is idealizing
a golden age that never existed. It never happened. There
was no time in history where women walked around barefoot
(11:50):
in silk slightly sexy nineties, doing crafts with their small
families and being this imaginary perfect parent. This childhood they
are asking us to create, never happened. Look at it
from the child's perspective. A generation ago, it was my
mum working with too many kids and not enough money,
no offense. Mum, I spent a lot of time in
front of the television and inventing games with my siblings,
(12:10):
and it was glorious. Two generations ago, it was my
nana also working several jobs with seven kids who got
no one on one time with their mother. Ever, three
generations ago, it was more children because contraception didn't exist.
So where my time goes to paid employment, that woman's
time went to her other fourteen children, and washing clothes
(12:31):
and cooking and cleaning took longer because the technology wasn't
there to expedite it. Before that, before industrialization and early capitalism,
the nuclear family didn't even exist. We lived in multi
generational homes which provided a village. So the grandmothers and
the aunties and the cousins were all helping out, and
everyone was caring for each other. So a mother might
be caring for a child but also their mother and
also whoever else needed it. And cooking and cleaning is work.
(12:54):
You cannot be constantly fully engaged with your child while
cooking and cleaning. It isn't possible. This idea of complete
self safe in the service of one child is a face,
and I refuse to be beat up with a made
up stick. I'll also say that that guy who did
that podcast episode about wanting a partner who didn't work
and just goes on hot girl walks and is happy
to see him at the end of the day, sir,
(13:14):
it sounds like you're unaware that life also happens to women.
Even if a woman doesn't work and doesn't fucking hate
housework like I do, she still might get the flu,
and her family member might be unwell, and she might
break her leg, and she might be stressed because the
fridge broke, and you need to be there to support her.
You not wanting to deal with the emotional load of
your partner having a job. Is actually you not wanting
to deal with the emotional load of having a partner.
(13:36):
But that is another topic altogether. I just wanted to
get that in. In conclusion, research shows that even with
more mums and dads working outside the home than ever,
modern parents are spending twice the amount of time with
their kids and parents fifty years ago. Stop glorifying a
golden age that never fucking existed, you misogynistic to us.
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I'm sorry, well done getting that off your chest.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I actually really do you.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Look every time.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I see those freakin videos on social media that are
saying like you know that one, it's Jordan Peterson's voice
in the background and it's like young, yes, young man.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
It's just so romanticized as well, because it's like, yeah
they are, but you know what, you still have to
pay bills when they're young, and they scream at you
were lost, yes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And like it just never happened. This year that we
are idealizing, Like I think the act of being a
parent is a constant exercise in guilt because you're never
gonna feel like you're enough for your child, and that
is kind of love, Like that's kind of what love is,
feeling like you always want to give me because if.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You feel like you've given enough, well, you know what,
you're probably pretty shit. You're a psychopath who doesn't love
them that much. Exactly if you think you're done.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
There's another like midwife such researcher who I always see
on TikTok and she is always like going on about
but breastfeeding and like the mum needing to be at
home for the first five years, and her vibe is
like if you're not going to be at home for
the first five years, like why did you even have
a child?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
And I'm like, well, that's how we all bought there
would be no.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Popular children human being.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I don't think I've ever heard it summarized so well
with the generational differences, yes, and the invention of machines
to help alleviate that stuff, Like, I don't think I've
ever heard read it that clearly because it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Is so true.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I mean I'm struggling so much at the moment with
the house, and it gets me down so much, to
the point where like people wanted to come and see
Suuki as a newborn, and I was saying, like, no,
but is.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That because you go on your phone and you see
everyone with their perfect esthetic house where it looks like
this kid doesn't even live. Yes, yes, And all the
trad wife content where they've got like full makeup, beautiful
gown on, it doesn't help and attached to their nipple,
and it's like, that's just not realistic.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
It doesn't help some of those creators who are doing
that content.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
What is it like when you turn that camera off?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Because I'm telling you, I'm spiraling about not even being
able to show up and I don't even care what
I look like on social media, but how you showing
up so perfectly? Like surely there has to be a
toll on that person showing up in that way. And
then the other point I wanted to make was just
about the fact that all of these tradwives are working.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Oh okay, that is the pyramid scheme of at all
every panel I see where it's a woman and she's like,
here's the case for not working. I'm like, what do
you call speaking on a panel? Yeah, on a panel
writing all of that. And I'm genuinely not saying that
there is anything wrong with mums who stay home. I reckon,
in an ideal world, I would love to have a
period like that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Why would you go for a hot girl walk every day?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I would freaking love that. And I think a lot
of people would love that or have done that. I
know so many incredible women who spent five years, seven years, whatever, yeah,
and like, good on them. I'm parts of being a
jealous of that. However, it's the tradwives who are like
making a living out of time talking about it, and
I'm like, no, no, no, no no. The definition of
(17:03):
what you are proposing is someone that's invisible, like technically
invisible because they're not writing or communicating.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
The other thing about it is like the class version
of it, because there are historically there's only one real
group of people that could actually afford not to work exactly.
And then the other thing is that the muddling of
stay at home mum and trad wife because I never
thought about it in that way, but I think what's
really clever and the way that trad Wives has kind
of got more momentum with it is piggybacking onto that.
(17:32):
So people that don't actually want to be a trad
wife are now all lumped into. You know, you might
want to be a stay at home mum, but you
don't want to be a trad wife, but you're a
lumped in together. So now there's this even higher level
of excellence perfection that we're meant to reach is stay
at home mums.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yea, and is so performative and it is so classist.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
It is so classist, and it's something I hadn't realized before,
Like everyone looks at those mums and I was like,
oh yeah, but be you know, objectively beautiful, have a
perfect house, have the option not to have to go
to work.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Every day even though you are going to work every
day by filming content, going on past yes, monetizing, and they're.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Probably making a whole lot more money than you. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Then their partner swans in like as if they've had
such a hard day.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Either of you.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Watched The Secret Live of Mormon?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Why no? But I need to, okay, because it's.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Really interesting because if you haven't seen the show, a
group of Mormons became very famous. There was a swinging scandal.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
They've got a pilot out of it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
It's glorious, it's old housewives, it's raw reality TV, and
they just want to stab each other in the back.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's perfection.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
But what was really interesting about that is that all
of them have done so well and they're in this
very traditional relationship of genders. But because they're making so
much money, their partners are a little bit like, oh,
but now you're kind of outgrowing that. And one of
them gave their husband an ultimatum and he actually left
his medical school placement in order for her to be
(18:59):
in mom oh. But that I felt was really interesting
because a lot of these famous people are making enough
money to pay all of the bills, so then you're
not actually in a traditional gender at.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
All. You are the breadwinner.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love that honesty, though, that they're being honest about
when they're not being honest about the fact that they
are working and they are making bank and that they're
just like this silly little woman at home looking after
the children and baking things from scratch. That's what I
don't like because it completely like undermines all of the
progression that we have done over the past decades, longer
(19:36):
than that.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
But it's like stay at home mums generally are not
placing any judgment on the mums who go the traditional work.
I'm saying the majority. I'm sure there are something outline
and mums who go to work and not fucking passing
judgment on the state at home mums. But that's why
we get so freaking triggered by the ones on TikTok
who are yelling at us, because it's like, stop, I'm
(19:57):
not judging anyone, why are you yelling at.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
But I also feel so guilty enough about my exactnesses
and you know, the days along but the years assured,
and then they'll post those things that go it's crazy
that for the first few years of our children's lives,
we see them for half an hour in the morning,
then we send them to daycare for someone else to
look after them while we go to work, and then
we see them. I already feel bad enough about that,
(20:24):
sometimes not for the time.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's like you're not putting the idea into my head.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I recently said something about you know those when something
awful happens and then people post like themselves crying and
they go make sure you hug your babies extra tight tonight.
Everyone was thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to point
it out and make other people feel really bad, like
and also like, does that mean that you think that
(20:50):
that person didn't hug their child like tight enough that
that doesn't awful happen?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Have perspective already because most of us do, and I
find but it's so incredibly unfair to do that to women.
And I do feel like this conservativism and this idea
of traditional values is creeping in further and further. And
we have probably all experienced the difference between a marriage
(21:16):
with kids breaking down where the mum worked and a
marriage with kids where it breaks down and the mother
didn't work, And how different the trajectory of that woman's life,
I know, And how unfair it is because all of us,
like we would love to think that the partners that
we have right now, we are going to be with
them for the rest of our lives, and they are
good men and they would look after us. But the
(21:36):
fact is that's not always the case. Statistically, Statistically, it's
not always the case, and it's not the case that
they would be that good human when things end because
there are men who don't pay child support in all
of that, and you end up being a woman who
is living a really fucking hard life. And I think
that the whole child wife thing is very ignorant.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Of that because it's take into consideration the one percent
who it doesn't matter if they break up because they're
earning enough bank themselves. But also even if they weren't,
like they would get enough in the breakup to set
themselves up for life and it doesn't matter. But it's
for all of the people in the lowest socioeconomic brackets
that they're the ones that are really impacted so much.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Your feminism was about us just having the opportunity to
do things, but also having something to fall back on,
making our own money, and I think that that creeping
in of those traditional values erases that, and then it
just makes us way more vulnerable to being able to
survive on our own, which is really scary, because surviving
on our own even in the way of like something
(22:41):
happening to your partner, you know. And then you're like,
because there was something I was reading, it was like
learned helplessness on both sides, right, Men are like, I
can't tie my shoelace.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Not that, but you know that's an example.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Stuff with the kids that they.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Can't do right, and then women are like, well, I
can't do my taxes, I can't do this, and that
like that's the stuff that will really negatively affect us
overall from that traditional wife then coming in, because that's
the stuff that's our power, and that's how we bring
ourselves out of stuff, being able to be fully functioning
in society without someone having to do that for us.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And that's so true that it's like the women that
you see on panels or TV shows or whatever talking
about like, oh, but my husband would never leave me
or whatever. It's like doesn't even have to be your
husband leaving. It could be your husband to die or
getting sick and medical bills, it could be more sorts
of unpredictable things. But I think what you said, Kelly
about people who are uber wealthy, they have the luxury
(23:37):
of buying into this idea. And there's this thing that
I've heard spoken about called luxury beliefs, and it's like
the kind of beliefs that, yeah, you can have if
you're privileged enough to have them. And I think the
traadwife thing is exactly that most of us. And the
same thing as like women not working. I'm like my
working class grandmother in I don't know, the nineteen forties,
(23:58):
nineteen fifties, whatever was working.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
She was working at what my nanny did for so
many years. She plucked chickens. She cannot eat a chicken,
although I think she does now because of her dementia,
she forgets that she hates chickens. She plucked chickens for years.
And yes there was a fair few years where she
wasn't working because she was looking after the four boys,
but that wasn't like this endless time that she was
(24:24):
spending with young children. She always had different jobs. And
the thing was is that one of her biggest regrets
is that she wanted to be a nurse. That's all
she wanted to do, but she couldn't because it wasn't
women didn't go to university, or if they did, it
was a huge deal. And so she was a dressmaker,
or she was plucking chickens, or she was also working
at a factory that my par worked at, but she
(24:47):
wasn't not working. And the same thing with my mom,
like even though my dad was the primary breadwinner. My
mom was always working because they wanted to do different
things and they had a big mortgage and it wasn't
an option not to.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, And it's almost like there's like a historical amnesia,
Like I look at my Nan, and my Nan had
to drop out of school in year eight because her
mum got sick, and her brothers were allowed to finish
school and continue education. But it's like, you're the girl,
so you have to be thirteen fourteen and looking after
the whole family, cooking, cleaning and all of that. And
(25:23):
I remember looking at my Nan at eighty and thinking, Nne,
you're really smart, Like it would have been so interesting
to see what it would have been like for her
to finish.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
If she'd been able to do what she wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, And it's like we know, like there are just
endless statistics about the value of education in every aspect
of like the depth of life that somebody's able to experience,
the kind of like cultural joys they can experience, and
then not to mention life expectancy and all of that.
But it's like the creeping in of these traditional values
(25:58):
then creeps in on that stuff. It's like, well, if
you're not gonna work, what's the point in education. I
think it's so dangerous. And I see debates play out
and I'm like, it's not a debate. The debate's done. Yeah,
did the debate we try to go?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah? And I also have a huge problem with the
women that comment on these videos saying, Oh, I totally
get what this person is saying, and I really love
just being a traditional at home, stay at home mum
or whatever. Okay, that's great, but you don't need to
encourage it. It's lovely that you are emotionally, mentally, and
(26:34):
financially okay enough to do that, and that's great for you.
But just like I wouldn't say that every single woman
should go be a nurse, you don't really need to
say that every woman should be doing this because it's
just not helpful and it's so dangerous, and it's also
so privileged of you to come to that sort of
opinion without considering everything that we just discussed with like, Okay,
(26:58):
well what if that man leaves the woman?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, that's true. I think about how far we've come
in the last few decades with gender and our understandings
of gender, and I love and I hope that the
way we're going is almost dismantling gender roles and gender
identity in a way that changes what our lives look like.
And then it's so bizarre that it's like this one
(27:21):
movement is going on one side where it's like what
is gender? Does this even matter? There's no gender binary?
And then on the other hand you have like, not
only do we believe in this absolute, immovable boundary, but
we believe that it should dictate how you live, Like
how also.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Exclude so many different groups of people, but the couples
exactly working mum, It excludes anyone that doesn't fit that
really traditional boring.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I don't think that that is like a mistake, though
I think one is because of the other. You know,
it's a direct reaction to that. And I loved something
I read It was like we've gone from girl boss
to tradwife, And I think that that's nomous steak as well,
because there is this ideal that really appeals to some women. Yeah,
and the girl bossed it so hard that now they're like,
I need a tad wife, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Like it's interesting that how.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
These different movements end up influencing something else, and it's
always the pendulum swinging from far side to far side.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
And I think it's like the medium is the message.
I think it's because there is no room for nuance
on the internet because the girl Boss movement had issues too.
It's like T.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Shirts with hashtag girl boss and it Oh oh god,
I was that that.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Had a choke hold on me. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Oh my.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I was just like, I have to girl boss.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
This is lean in. Like I was so into it.
I was so into it. And then I think it's
having a baby that re clarifies it for you, and
it's like, hold on, this is more complex than that.
And I was really conscious Key, I don't know if
you feel this, but like I did a podcast maybe
six weeks after Matilda was born, and then I remember
I did one where no one could look after her.
(28:58):
So I did a podcast with her st to me
in the podcast studio. Yeah, and there was a video
of it, and I was so conscious of like, I'm
not doing this as a value statement, like I'm not yeah,
I'm doing it because it was possible in that moment,
and she happened to sleep, and there was every possibility.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
She was going to wake up.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, I am not saying that women should do this.
I know I don't particularly want to be doing this
right now.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Well, I had a little like freak out the other
day just because I'm very not good with my confidence.
A lot of the audience who were listening to that
wrote and then were like, you know, you just back
at work and inspiring, and I'm thinking like, oh no, no,
I'm not trying to be like and now I'm back working.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
No, I'm a freelancer.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
I need to be back in order for us to
like be able to make money as a family.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
This is not aspirational.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
And I think that's the other thing about the Internet
that like no room for nuance. But it also has
become this weird thing where we think that everything someone
else does is a statement on us. And then that's
what annoys me about the trad wife thing is because
it's being explicit about that. Like if I see somebody
who's taken a year's matt leave and just looks like
(30:05):
they are in heaven, which I see all the time,
and I get a pang of jealousy, I'm like, ooh,
I've got to think about that. That's about me, that's
not about them, but with the child wife stuff that
is explicitly just getting a knife and going into that
area women.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Because it doesn't exist. Yeah, it's just yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think your sister actually because she was so open
when she was postpartum about loving it yeah yeah, and
really loving being on Matt leave, and that she really
liked her birth and she was actually really happy. And
she was talking about how it was weird because a
lot of the conversations are prior to her having that,
she'd felt like it was all going to be just
(30:47):
like quite negative.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
But me and my.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Sister, who both had awful experiences postpartuman in birth, we're
talking about it, and we were saying it was actually
so refreshing and nice to hear someone speak about it
in a way that was different, but also not twisting
a knife in any way. She was really appreciating it,
and it was actually really nice to hear that perspective,
which is why it's you need to have different opinions
(31:12):
and perspectives because otherwise the conversation would be so boring.
But you need to be able to have the conversation
not just think that it's your way or the high way,
because none of us are saying that it's bad to
be a stay at home mum and want to cook
and clean for your partner and your family. But we
are saying that it's bad if you're saying that that's
the only way to do things.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yes, it's going to say they're all white.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
He they are all white, and they all not all No,
they're not white. Nara Smith is not white. True, true,
Like it's dangerous because their views not there maybe personally,
and also they probably don't loudly and proudly say their
political beliefs, but some of them are just really far right.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Some of them are quite political in what they say,
like a lot of them are. I think it does
have like a religious understroyed for shit does.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
But that adds to how dangerous it can be.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Completely I agree.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I saw a panel discussion recently. I don't know if
you guys saw it. It was on Piers Morgan and
there was Clementine Ford and she was the only one
on this panel who was arguing against the trad wife vibe.
And then there was a husband and wife and another
woman and it was like she was mocked the whole time.
She was made fun of, And I was like Oh
my god, this is what we're living in, where like
(32:29):
she would.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Have also just been saying what I just said, that
it's not bad if you want to yes, yes, but
don't tell other people. And then they're making fun of
her for that.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yeah yeah, and it went all these clips from it
went viral, just made fun of her, and I was like,
oh my god, this is the world we're living in,
where like she is mocked and the power lies with
these conservatives who also set it up so it can't
be argued. Like I was like a panel where three
of the four people and the host were against Yeah, argument,
(32:59):
that's panel. Like, No, I don't know if you guys
get all the Ben Shapiro stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
He terrifies me. But I also is his name Dean Withers,
Dean the kind of blondie guard. Yes, he's like twenty
years old.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yes, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I want him and that bloke from that shitty Australian
podcast to have a debate. That's what I want because
he's the only twenty year old I want to listen to.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yes, who was able to argue against him? Like there's
a British woman actually who was able to argue against.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm just period so many things. Ben Shapiro, He's just
why do you have points that make sense about something?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
No, there is a difference between somebody being educated enough
to articulate and argument well and argue a point well
and that point itself being valid. Like they are two
different things.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, and so true.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Sometimes I see someone I'm like, wow, you are so smart.
You're an excellent debater, like excellent strategies of like tearing
apart in argument. I do not agree with your argument
at all, And it's like smart people. That's the thing
about smart people can argue even illogical, deeply flawed things
very very very well well and make you question.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I mean, obviously there are some things that he could
never make me question, but he does still always have
really strong arguments, which if you're not that confident with
your own critical thinking, maybe then you could watch something
like that. He's got such a big platform and think, yeah,
you're right.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And he speaks so fast and he interrupts people.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
I've got a list of about five people I never
want to debate with.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
The I can live knowing I'm right and you're wrong
and never.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Have to have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
You would put me in my place, and you would
make me doubt every single thing about myself and my
brain within five seconds. We can't have the tried wife
conversation without touching on the ridiculousness and complete unrelatable of
just how much it leans on that heavily aesthetic interest beige.
Their houses look like no children actually live there. Their
(35:00):
kitchens are always spotless, everything is made from scratch. The
toddlers aren't ever screaming at them about the baked goods
being ready or being cut up in a certain way.
Like there's nothing about the content that is a reflection
of real life, which is fine if it's not designed
to like, if your content is kind of like not
(35:22):
designed to be relatable, if it's just like, oh my gosh,
like I'm doing special effects makeup or I'm a high
fashion girlie. But this obviously isn't stuff that you just wear.
Generally is very different to when it's being portrayed in
a way that they are trying to make out that
it's real life and that that's just what every day
actually looks like.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And the implication is if you lived like this, your
life would be calm.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
And stressed, free to and you also you speak like this,
to speak slowly and make bubble gum from scratch.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
There's no screaming children. You have enough space where your
children are playing somewhere else, which.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
There's obviously a nanny. Yes, because you're working. You're not
a stay at home mum. And the traditional definition.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Of that, because if it was, there would be mess
everywhere because no one can clean up as they go
that well, you would hear the children babbling, asking questions,
then screaming. One of them would have a tantrum, one
of them would fight with the other one.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
I know. Yeah, they hire a studio like maybe Marcle.
It's just all like a film. I didn't realize before
I had a child was how much being a picky
eater is innate. I always assumed that it was like nurture,
that maybe, like my mum was too fucking busy to
like introduce me to different textures, hence why I'm a pigire. Yeah,
(36:44):
but having like experiment like Jesse has a child, I
have a child. I am lazy with food. I do
not do anything exceptional and my child will eat anything
that is biology. But watching Luna and Matilda, who at
like if you compared them at the same age. Luna
is picky and it is nothing that Jesse has done,
(37:05):
and Matilda will eat anything. It is nothing that I
have done.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I've heard Jesse talk about like she's home cooking and
being so careful about everything that is in different things.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
She does so much more than me, and I'm like,
that is actually so unfair. And the tradwife thing, whereas
Narah Smith doing all her bloody, weird milks and her
weird foods. I'm like, those kids they are eating that.
That is not an environmental thing. That is luck and
it is not that if anyone behaved like that, they
guess we'll freaking eat that. No.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
And I was definitely like that at the beginning, and
Rue I only wanted to eat pasta, so I just
gave that up. I was just like, fine, you will
eat that stuff when you want to eat that stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm not gonna waste my time anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah. I do not cook anymore through the week at all.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah. Well, the other day she was like, can I
have some carrots? And I was like whoa.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So then I cooked her some carrots and she ate
all of them and I was like, carrots are in
I put them to bed. I didn't worry about it
and said she'll get there in the end, and she does, because.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
They get exposed in other places.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
If your kids at daycare, they're getting exposed totally.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I love seeing them.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
They're eating together at their little table, like all together,
like a little cult.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
It's so cute.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Is not at daycare yet?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
No, she's doing though. I'm going to a place called
Bubba Desk once a week where her working space with
a crate. I want to ask you and essentially charge
it on site, which is great for me a day
roughly about saying okay, one sixty. I structure my day
by being like, Okay, I'm going to do some writing,
(38:35):
I'm gonna do whatever task, and then I'm going to
go and put her down for a nap, and then
I'll come and give her a lunch. Like It's a
really nice way, and it's also good for if you're
still breastfeeding care and then they'll message you and be
like hungry.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
She wants she wants to can they be.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Or Matilda was very little. I did a few days
when Matilda was maybe like four months.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Okay, I was actually gonna ask you about this because
I'm kind of thinking about my.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
She's just starting to get a bit vocal.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
And I'm also like sitting here all day working and
she's looking at me like, bitch, I have developed more.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, I wanted things to do.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
She really wanted it when I arrived this morning because
I entertained her.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That actually made me feel really bad.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Girl.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I was like, I just do not play with her enough.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Jess, and I always say it when I walk into
Jesse's place. Me and Luna have our own little games.
Jesse has her own little games with Matilda. And I'm like,
I can't make her laugh like that. You can't make
Luna laugh like this. But again, I think.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's gonna make you both feel a bit bad. I
can make my kids laugh like.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
No one else. You're a performer, however, perform.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Also, you both know he is the most clingy mummies
boy in the entire world, and that is that is why.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
You're a little man. But I do think like there
are these little fleeting thoughts that you have throughout motherhood, right,
and I am working with my psychologist on these thoughts
at the moment, Like all those little thoughts, which is like, wait,
why can somebody else make my child laugh more. And
that's why the child wife stuff piss me off so much,
because I'm like, do not poke at the insecurities like
(40:10):
they are there. The mental health toll of those narratives
as you are a mother is like, I think there
are some amazing mental health benefits to being a parent,
and I think there are some real challenges. Yes, I
have a lot of friends who say, like, I don't
want to have a child because I struggle with my
mental health, and I'm like, reconsider that, because I think
(40:31):
having a child can be exposure therapy for a lot
of shit.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Also, they force you to get out of bed in
the money exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Depression. My thing with depression exactly. My thing was always
like lethargy. And then I'd get into a cycle where
it's like I feel shit because i haven't got out
of bed and I'm.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Over the head exactly for a few days and you.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Can't is actually a form of therapy, and I genuinely
think it is exposure therapy for perfection because it's like,
your kids not perfect, and you learn that you love
them as much as you could possibly love anyone anyway, Yeah,
and then you kind of start to look at yourself
like that, and then you're like, no day is going
to be perfect, nothing I do is going to be perfect,
(41:13):
and yet this little human is growing and developing still,
Like I genuinely think it's like a mental such a
good point, like I do think there are parts of
my mental health that have improved, but then I think
there are challenges, and I think some of that fucking
content just plays in.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
It's true because it's like all the mean stuff that
you say in your head or not necessarily mean, like
negative or questioning things that you do, and then looking
at someone who's telling you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Like, you're right, you need to be better off.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
You would be better off to the right person that
is really going to resonate and just make them feel awful,
and it makes me feel awful and I know better, And.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
I think the darkest thought a mother can have, and
I think depending on how your mental health has been
as a parent, you might have had this, Kelly, because
I know I have this every now and then you
have it where it's like, oh am, I even the
best mother for my child, would somebody else be at.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The darkest thoughts is when you think you look at
them and you go you would be so much better
off without me exactly. When you're feeling clarity and not
like that, you're like, of course that, you're like, that's.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Such an logical thought. But when you're in the depths
of it, that's the thought you have, and that's the
thought that some of this shit presses on because it's
like because then you're like, well, I'm not the stay.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
At home mum, I'm not all the time smiling.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I'm not that maybe they would be better off with
somebody else, Like it's so.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
And there's no way that that mum could achieve that exactly.
So it's like they're just like, I'm just warning my
kid's laugh.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
And that's why social media can be so dangerous though
when it comes to these things, is that, yes, of
course you can look at it. It's just a form
of entertainment. But when they're hammering different, really dangerous messages home.
If you're already feeling so shit and you are looking
at your kid and you're thinking, oh my god, you'd
be so much better off without me, you open up
your phone. You open up your phone for entertainment or
(43:00):
the news, maybe mainly to if you open up TikTok,
you're looking for a little bit of entertainment, looking for
a giggle, if you will. You're not looking for everything.
You've just been feeling to be completely validated by a
stranger with an objectively perfect house, perfect face, perfect children,
(43:20):
smugly telling you exactly what you've just thought.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
It's true. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That's how we started the pod.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, and that bit funny, and I have to say,
very unperfect.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I don't know if I've told you guys this, but
I was struggling very early on with We had a
thing where Matila just didn't latch in the first place,
and then the breastfeeding kind of never never works off pumping.
I was like triple feeding, you know when it's like
and then you're pumping and then your formula for all
that stuff. I was doing that for like five months,
and I think I got to that five months and
(43:53):
I was so broken and emotional and I was like,
I want to feel permission to stop. I have not
felt it, and I was almost looking for it, and
it was u Key. I think you were talking about
your breastfeeding journeys. I think UK said something like giving
a bottle is really cute, and that was it. I
was like giving a.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Bottle is cute. You can't see their little face, no,
you can see and then look the way that they're
like caress your arm and when they.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Hold it with their tiny hand and the bottle is
so big, and you're just.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Like how the bottle it's so cute. And it was
you guys admitting like, well, not admitting like that even
sounds bad, but it was you guys being honest about
your journeys and how different they were. That it's like
ket you enjoyed it and all of that. But it
was like that she wait, like there was there's all
that kind of stuff. It's like so many different reasons
(44:46):
for it not to work, and it is not your
fucking fault. No, And then I was like, I fucking
did it five months, like I'm good, and that was
like the permission. But I could have gone for another
six months and my mental.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Health would have just continued it fine decline. I recently
got kicked out of a Facebook group before for yelling
at someone who was, you know, very pushing the breast
is best. I got so cranky, I said times.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It wouldn't be a thing, I know, because the fed's
best doesn't rhyme yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Like catch anyway, listen, at the end of the day,
I probably wasn't the kindest person to this woman. Yeah,
I was removed from the group. Well, and I don't
often comment because I have a lot of opinions and
I have a lot of thoughts. But I don't often
ever comment because I'm like, I don't want to argue
with strangers on the internet, which is a.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Normal response to things that you see on the internet, Right,
I just want to say that is the normal. You
are the normal person, and that's you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Not the normal. Well, what I did that day, which
was start arguing with the stranger on the internet and
then called her called her names because she was making
other people feel But I didn't call her names, but
I probably did a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Kelly, you're gonna get canceled.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Someone's gonna listen to this and be like, I thought
that was her.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I thought I recognized her pop picture and her name.
I'm scared by it. Don't shame other women about breastfeeding.
I will shame you for breastfeeding then.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
And that's the other thing about the breastfeeding thing, Like
everyone's like breast is best like and you see the
Likectatian consultants who are as saints, and I get it,
and I get it, but it's like, believe me, in
my bones, I know that breast is best. Yeah, I
fucking know. I'm actually not naive.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Like so it's not brand neuine, it's not.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
New information, I know. So you telling me that actually
just confirms that any thought I had about like yeah,
but maybe this is making me really struggle and I'm
not okay and I'm an insane person and I can't
have a social life and I.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Can't work, and my boobs hurt, I keep getting messed outs.
Whatever it is. You know what, if you really want
to start arguing about what is best for the baby,
vaginal birth is without an EPI, yeah, probably arguably it
could be the best. You know what, I'm not doing that,
no introest. I would not, no, unless it was I
had to.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Oh sorry, we're saying it in the company of miss
miss Home Bertha Miss home.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Birth didn't get across the line. No, but you're.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Still laboring without paint relief.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
I'm like, yeah, I just enjoyed it, which I know
sounds crazy, and I don't want to get into that
conversation but I did enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
I do think that there is this weird part of
your brain that's activated towards like in pregnancy, and especially
towards the end of pregnancy where you do go a
bit earth mother and you go you go full. Maybe
I have a really high pain threshold. And then I
learned one centimeter, but I didn't that I.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Absolutely did not contraction that I have the least amount
of pain. But I also think everyone is so different.
Like I have a girlfriend that genuinely didn't think it
was that bad.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Oh, I think I do have.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
A high pain through because I had shingles the other
day and I was like out looking at houses being.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Like, oh my god, this is quite painful, and.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
It's that is meant to be really paying. It wasn't
just the laboring like it's been confired.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Actually, I had a procedure done where I had canuless
put in my face also as a needle frobe sleigh
that I took pay.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Okay, I thought that when I saw you getting a
hate needles and that needle is near your eye.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I've never had the gas before, so I didn't know
what to do. That poor lady, how did she not
lose her shit? Laughing at it makes you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
High or drunk. I didn't take it. I don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
When I was like super pregnant and had the compacted bow, you.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Know, like, oh, I mean the.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Time that you ended up in hospital, Like what a
delicate way to say that you were literally full of
shit and doctor Matt he just had to help you.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Can I tell you this?
Speaker 4 (48:36):
They took me up to the delivery suite or whatever
because they didn't know what was going on. And I
was sucking on this thing for so long because I
was in so much pain. It's super painful. And Charlie
liked said to the midwives like, hey, is it okay that,
like she's sucking for the baby, and they're like, oh,
it's been on oxygen for ages, there's no gas.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
And I was like, it's just like I was literally
he told me that, and I.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Was like, bitches, it's like, also, don't tell me like placebo,
like let me enjoy this.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I have no idea.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
He told me months old, months after and a hind man,
I mean, I get it, but like I wasn't a.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Lot of pain too.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
It's really it's really.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Good but placebo effect. I think that's how I did
the needles in the face because the gas. I wasn't
sucky enough to do much, but it was such a
distraction and I couldn't see it. Even though I was
filming myself, I couldn't see it. And I was just
like yabbering away asking her odd questions, and yeah, I
think it was just destruction so very sam.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I forgot we had the gas during the home birth,
and you know, like in the days after birth, like
the midwife's checking with me, like how's your mental health?
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Like are you you know, you have like a.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Bit of a baby blues moment and mine latched onto
the berth for like a hot minute and she was like,
you know, how are you feeling about the birth? And
I'm like I just keep like replying the fact that
we didn't use the.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Gas, like how do I use the gas? And she
was like, key, I cannot stress this enough. It wouldn't
have made a difference, would.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Not have opened enough to let yeah evenly like you oh, anyway.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
But I think it's such a normal thing with birth
that you convinced.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yourself it was something you did.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
So yeah, And my.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Big thing is and I think I told you this key,
this was my theory about your first birth, Like I've
imposed my own theory to you.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Did you talk about it with your psychologist?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yes? So there was a storm and my water broke,
and apparently a midwife told me afterwards that something with
the drop in barometric pressure can rupture waters and so
a lot of women go into labor when there's a storm, right,
But I convinced myself. I was like, so what happened
was my waters broke before they should have and that's
why Matilda flopped into the wrong position, and that's why
(50:48):
I didn't fully dilate, and that's why my birth was awful.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
And yeah, I ended up weather's fault if you think
about it.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yes, But then I'm like, oh, it was the fact
that I got dural. Then I'm like it didn't even
freaking work. And then I'm like, was I pushing properly?
Like all of that share goes through your head and
you convince yourself that like it was actually your fault, which.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
Is just because you like, you find a reason like, well,
that has to be my fault, and it's like yeah,
but you can't control the fuck and wear.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
That and so yeah, yeah, yeah, and some just happens
and it's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
And it is okay.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Anyway, let's wrap this up because we, the three of us,
could probably just keep here. We could Birth Stories. Don't
tempt this, because we will. I'll go out get us
the bottle of water for it. We'll just sit around
and thank you so much Claire for oh please any time.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
I love this show so much. I'm just anyone who
will listen. I'm like, here's a podcast, here go, here go.
I just I think it's genuinely so important. We'll have
mums being.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Honest, we hope. So recommendations, Kyri Cells, what have you got?
Speaker 4 (51:57):
I wanted to recommend my breast pump this week. It
is the Licevo wearable breast pump. Look, it is not cheap,
so I realize it is hard times at the moment.
I was actually gifted this, So it just depends where
you're out and how much money you want to spend
on a breast pump. This is just over five hundred dollars.
But when I was out the other night, my sister
in law borrowed it because we both needed to pump
(52:19):
and dump at the hens and she commented about how
good it was. She was like, oh my god, I
think I'm gonna have to get this pump because she
said it was just the same as the.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
Baby being on.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
And it isn't super loud like when we were out
you could not hear it at all. And it's super comfy.
It's just really good, easy to use, easy to dissemble
and clean, and comes in like a really cute little
leather pouch. It's just great and I can't recommend it enough.
I had a really shitty pump the first time around,
so my pumping experience, I was very scared and hesitant
to start pumping this time around, and it has made
(52:53):
the biggest difference. So if you're looking for a great pump,
highly recommend the lice Evo.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I've got a rogue recommendation today, but it's the hydro
Mamma by Minni and Me. It's basically just like an
electrolyte sachet that you pop in your water. My favorite
is the cola. It tastes like post mix from the
movies that's watered down a little bit, which is so yummy.
I need to have a lot of salt in my
diet and the electrolytes. Whenever I haven't had this for
(53:20):
a few days, I notice it. I get dizzy, I
get vertigo, I get stomach cramps. It is so good
and they've got so many different yummy flavors. It's also
perfect to have on hand even if you don't need
it on the rag because it is quite expensive as well,
but to have on hand for people, because it's good
for kids as well, if you've got gastro in the house,
or just anything where you're not having enough fluids, if
(53:43):
you're sick, if you're pregnant and sick, this really icy
when you're vomiting in the first trimestol throughout your pregnancy.
Holly duly, it would be delicious.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
I actually use this for my pregnancy, so I second that.
And you can buy like a mixed flavor the first
time around, so that you can tie all the flavors
to figure out which.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
One you like.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
That one's your face and I really liked the was
it pomegranate?
Speaker 1 (54:09):
The purple one?
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Oh yes, yum yummy.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
That one was so good.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
And you can turn them into icy poles anyway. They're
just very multi use. Absolutely love them. But on that note,
this episode has been going for far too long, but
hopefully you've really enjoyed it. Key's got another shitty happy
to change. So we are going to love you and
leave you, and the only thing we're going to say
is make sure you're following us and the episode production.
(54:34):
Thank you Maddie, Thank you shitters.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Bye bye.
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