February 18, 2025 • 52 mins
What if the toys you trust for your baby aren't actually safe?
In this eye-opening episode, Kel and Kee chat with Sh*tter and small business owner Kate, who uncovered some shocking truths about Australian toy safety while launching her baby brand, Billie Frank The Label.
Like most parents, Kate assumed that baby toys and accessories sold in Australia had to pass strict safety testing. But as she navigated the regulations for her own products, she realised just how many businesses skip proper testing - putting infants and toddlers at serious risk. Now, she's on a mission to spread the word.
LINKS
HOSTS & PRODUCERS
Kelly McCarren @kelly_mccarren
Kee Reece@keereece
AUDIO PRODUCTION
Madeline Joannou -Mylk Media
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So what products have always been safety tested?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
None?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
None?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I'm sorry, what because it's not a legal requirement.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello, welcome back. This is eat Sleeve Shit Repeat the.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Wildly Unhinged Podcast, hopefully your favorite podcast about the madness
that is motherhood and everything in between.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Kelly McCarran and I'm kirious selves and I want
to say something I have not stopped thinking about it.
Episode from last week, if you missed it, we spoke
to a fascinating shitter, Kirsty, who was Australia's first uterus
transplant recipient, with her donut being her mum.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Honestly, modern medicine collapse. Yeah, well done, modern medicine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Big ups.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
If you told us what could happen maybe thirty years ago,
we would not have believed it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We simply would not have believed it. Actually, to be fair,
we did believe that cars would fly.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Think about that, and we still don't really have them
at all.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But medicine, at least the important things are fancy so true.
On the show today, we are talking to another fabulous shitter, Kate,
who while on Matt Lee decided to launch a little
side hustle designing baby products. She quickly learned about the
complex world of Australian toy safety standards and regulations and
even loopholes, discovering that a surprising number of businesses don't
(01:24):
go through proper safety testing yet still sell products for
infants in toddlers, which is barbaric if you ask.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Me, Yeah, piping hot tea. We get into it. It's
really interesting and it's also shocking, but it's a chat
that we hope will have an impact on the safety
of our little.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Shitters, because I think that, like, if we just said
all this episode's about toy safety, it sounds like it's
going to be boring, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
We chose Kate because we read her message and we
were like, I'm sorry, what.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, it gets more and more shocking, but there is
hope as well. It's all doom and gloom.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
She's also just like hilarious, has a lot of funny
tale and we go off on some tangent, so it's
a great episode.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
As always, it wouldn't be an Shitter interview if we
didn't go off on a tangent. Australian toy standards and regulation.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh my god, it sounds like we're on the news
with that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's not very sexy, but it is very interesting for
how regulated we are as a country. I don't think
I'm alone and assuming that this would extend to the
toys and accessories and pacify thing he's on the market
for our kids. I specifically remember this teether that I
was gifted or purchased for rou when she was really little.
It was like a wooden circle with four to six
(02:32):
little wooden knobs on the outside, resembling the shape of
the sun. And then these little knobs had these little
rubber circles attached to the end, and they were really
rock hard. I remember looking at these little rubber circles
and thinking that they were like hard blueberries, and very
much the shape and size that I had heard so
many times were a massive choking hazard. And then I
(02:53):
remembered thinking, well, these are being sold everywhere. Surely the
safety standard of the product has been tested, and on
I went with my day. A few weeks later, I
came across a product recall. One of those knobs that
I had been concerned about had detached from that toy
and a kid had choked on it. That was a
huge red flag for me as a first time parent.
Never assume and always trust your gut. Call. Have you
(03:15):
had any eerie moments with toys like that?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
For Lainn, every time I ever received something or opened
to something and I had a weird feeling about it,
even if it said it was fine on the packet,
I just chucked it away.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh wait, put it away.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Like as we discussed in the episode, I have like
this little abaces Thini that I bought. It immediately just
went on a high shelf away from Lenny so it
could be for esthetic purposes. I also remember I got
a what are those things called the dong you go
dongdongdong dong dong dong dong dong dong oh xylophone.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, they are like little weapons.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
They're really sharp on the corners. So just stuff like
that that I just immediately. No one's ever even said anything,
They've never been product recall, but I'm like, that is
a weapon and that shall not be being used.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, well not all of us are that smart. And
that tea that has always stuck with me. I think
that's why I was so keen to talk to our
guest Kate today.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Kate is a shitter, e mum of two, and a
small business owner. Her story came through in a call
out I did for fascinating stories. And while Kate's story
might not be wildly outlandish, these are her words, not ours.
It's quite eye opening, which is why we chose her,
especially for other parents. While on maternity leave, Kate started
building a small business, Billy Frank the Label, hoping to
(04:27):
stay home with her two daughters a little bit longer.
As she designed baby products, what she learned about the
safety of some products was so eye opening and shocking.
And after navigating the process and meeting all the safety standards,
which is actually a huge sleigh and way more involved
than you. Well, it should be way more involved, but
it's surprising how many people don't involve themselves anyway. For
(04:47):
her own products, she now feels a responsibility to raise
awareness and help other parents make informed, safe choices. Welcome Kate.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Firstly, we want to commend you on launching a small
business on Matt Lee. If that's no small feet, I
want to remind everyone that I too, launched ESSR on
my Matt Leaf and you did too, but you didn't
really take any mat leave, so we'll forget about that.
Can you took us through the decision to dive into
designing baby products? Where do we even start with something
like that?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I guess the decision to dive into designing baby products
specifically was a natural step because I was living and
breathing all things baby. I still am and have been
since the end of twenty twenty one when Billy was born.
When Billy was six months old, to celebrate surviving six months,
we went to Fiji, which was very exciting and I
(05:39):
was so excited to show off my baby Billy to
the world because we got pregnant in COVID and then
we moved out of Sydney and the day that lockdown
finished in Sydney, it actually came into effect in Newcastle,
which is where we moved, so that was fun for
me anyway. So no one knew I was pregnant except
the people that I worked with, and even then they
hadn't seen my bump because I was from home and
(06:01):
we didn't announce it to social media. So I was
really excited. I was going to show off my kid
to the world. But she weaned herself while we were there,
and she started baby leg weaning, so she was eating,
which was super cute and messy. But all of my
beautiful photos of us in Fiji are her wearing a
gray table napkin around her neck to catch all the food.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
It's not aesthetic, No, it wasn't aesthetically pleasing, No, couldn't,
so my photos weren't going Look, I survied pregnancy and
I did breast beating.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I haven't slept, but look happy my baby is. So
that was upsetting. So then fast forward a year, so
I had Frankie and she was six months old, so
we did the same thing to go away, but I
was pretty determined to take an aesthetically pleasing bib that
actually you could wipe down, that was waterproof, because what
I found is if you're on holidays, you don't have
(06:55):
a washing machine. And Frankie had just started baby leg weaning.
So I bought all these very very cute outfits, and
then I didn't want them to get ruined because if
you're going out to breakfast again, you don't have a
washing machine. So I started researching. I wanted one that
was waterproof that you could wipe off, and one that
was aesthetically pleasing and not blue with a truck or
(07:16):
pink with a unicorn, and I couldn't find anything at all.
I ended up buying one that was reasonably cute to
look at, but actually quite useless in actually keeping my
kids clean. So that is where it started from, basically
messy baby lead weening and sick of doing a two
bib situation or ruining clothes because I'm not very good
(07:39):
at washing. I'm terrible at getting stains out.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Sam.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I think that's so great though, like you solved a
problem that is very real for parents, especially in those
baby lead weaning like stages. And also there's it's really
difficult to find ones that actually work as well because
they're not designed properly. I think, yeah, there's a lot
of dodgy ones out there. So I love that you
sold an issue.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yes, and so it was based off both my girls.
So I did some of the bits. There's a you'd
be shocked, No, there's a matching one for a baby
and a toddler. Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I actually did receive those and rue was so excited
because lots of stuff's been coming for the baby, and
she was like Rual, but she also tried to steal
the teddy Bear, and I was like.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
That's not the baby.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The baby has no new stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
You will find out soon, Key that no one acknowledges
that you have a second baby. So the first baby,
everyone's very excited and sends your baby shower gifts and congratulations.
The second one comes in this crickets. So I got
one really beautiful gift for Frankie and it really made
me think about those gifts that you keep as keepsakes.
(08:48):
We've got one really nice gift from when I mean,
all the gifts really lovely, but one was this really
beautiful tea that in that beech wood, and Frankie got
a really beautiful one for her birthday. So that's where
it led from Bibbs.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
From Bibbs, I think that's brilliant though, And also I
really love that idea of like having something that's just
a really nice gift that they will want to keep
and maybe like put on their little Like Lenny's got
this little display cabinet thing that well, actually it's mainly
just where I put things that I've ordered on Etsy
that are wildly unsafe for him to use, so that
(09:26):
they look cute.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So I put them up there.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I will talk to you about Etsy when we get
to it as well.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh my god, okay great. As part of the gift,
one of the gifts packs that you have, You've got
a really cute, beautiful, very aesthetic dummy clip.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So can you talk us through.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
The testing process of a baby product like a dummy clip?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Who carries it out?
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Like how long does it typolically take? And what is
done to the product to test its safety? Because Lenny
huge dummy kid baby, and we had dummy clips the
law when he was little, and I think only ever
had one that was actually cute with his little.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Name on it. The rest was so hideous.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And then yeah, I did read I just never thought
about anything. I was never going to put one on
him to sleep anyway. But then yeah, I read something
about like some of them could be dangerous.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, it's actually wild because in my head, if I
neither of my girls to get dummy, because why would
they want to sleep and let me sleep? But I
would never have bought one and considered that someone would
be selling something that wasn't safe, Like I would have
just looked at it unless it was really obvious, like
bits were falling off and it was loose, I'd be like, oh,
that's cute. Like we were given them for both girls,
(10:40):
and I didn't think anything of it. I'm like, oh,
that's cute, but neither used to dummy.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm pretty naive.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I just always I think I like to give people
the benefit of a doubt as well, and I just
think that people aren't out to get us, so I
agree as well, Like I would just assume that a
company that's selling a baby toy it would be safe
for a baby.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You would assume that is the assumption that many people
make and what.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I should be able to do technically, like you would think, you.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Would think and hope. However, in all the research that
I've done recently, it's not necessarily true with a dummy clip,
though it is different slightly so for dummy clips specifically,
in twenty seventeen, the Consumer Goods Baby Dummy and Dummy
Change Safety Standard was brought in, so from twenty seventeen
it was illegal to sell a dummy clip that wasn't
(11:32):
safety tested.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So what products have always been safety tested?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
None?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
None?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, it's going to blow your mind. So this as well,
I went, Really, I'd like deep dived into it since
we've spoken, and it's actually blowing my mind. So my
friend works for one of the top global insurance companies
at a very high level. With the old standard, which
was a two thousand and three standard, it just said
(11:59):
you don't willingly knowingly sell toys that aren't safe. So
if I looked if I made a toy and I went, yep,
this is good, it's safe, I could sell it. If
I heard a child the a triple C can then
choose to recall it. They can then choose to find you,
and if it goes to court, they'll look deeply into
(12:21):
the lads, We'll look into it and see if you
have actually done accountability and made sure that the product
was safe.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So basically they're relying on your due diligence and you're
like call on whether or not your product is safe.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And more than likely, in general, I would say you
might get a slap on the wrist.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Really no real life consequences.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I went back to look at these statistics report and
I can't find anything significant about big insurance claims on
products where the child has been hurt. Does that make sense?
So it hasn't got to that level but in saying
that if toy that I was given broke, I would
just put it in the bin.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, so true. Unless something dire happens, you're not going
to report it.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
No, And I think this is what we need to
be doing, Like I really so, I would really like
this to be a bit of a passion project for
me because everyone that I've spoken to again just assumes
that it's safe. So if I bought something, I would
assume it was safe. But if I bought something off Temu,
definitely don't make that assumption.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No exactly, but then they're all coming from the.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Same way, but because it's sold under an Australian business,
you assume it. And even that I bought toys for
Billy for the plane to go to Fiji, and I
just bought off Amazon and they definitely were not safe.
Like now that I reflect and I'm like, oh, that
was a strangling raceaw you would have choked one that
(13:50):
this is fun shit.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I'm just thinking about the trip I did to Europe
and all of the things I got off Amazon there, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, because Amazon is just the Australian Temu. Yes, if
I don't want to wait two weeks for that toy.
I will pay Amazon three times and have it the
next day.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, oh my god, Kate, you're going to die.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Actually, just as we were just talking and Amazon delivery
arrived that I ordered at ten pm last night.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
See this is why Amazon's great.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Because I was like, I need an iPad cover. We're
going on a plane. And then I was like, oh,
just get one and get it delivered tomorrow. Yeah, brilliant,
and I would who knows what it's made of?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Who knows? So it arrived today, Yep.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Definitely wasn't made in Australia.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Convenience. Yeah, what we really care about. It's al how
soon into your process of designing did you sort of
become aware of these Well it's not even loopholes.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So that's interesting as well. So you and I talked
about the loophole because that's something I got really caught on.
I was so upset by it that there was a
loophole that people could go through if they wanted to
with safety testing, which I thought was horrible, Like, I
can't imagine risking a child's life to make free dooms.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The loophole that we're talking about. Sorry, assumed knowledge or
just rewind it back a little bit. So the first
kind of thing that shocked you was a loophole around
the rattles. Yeah, the sizing. Can you talk us through that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I definitely can. So with the dummies, they test for
four things. The length must not exceed twenty two centimeters
otherwise it's a strangulation risk. The strength is tested to
make sure you can't break or tear under pressure. Then
the little clip is open and shut multiple times to
make sure that it won't break. And then there's not
(15:31):
allowed to be any details or labels on dummy clips.
So they're the four things they test for.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Who are you sending it to? Are you paying for
it to be done? It's not being sent to a
regulatory board like you're sending it to a private lab.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes. So there's oz Test, which is an Australian based
testing company and they test everything under the sun, not
just toys. Then there's another company that is a world
no one called SGS, which is a globally international testing company.
So I went through them. Generally speaking, at the moment,
if you're trying to get insurance that cover your toys
(16:08):
or baby products, the insurance companies prefer international testing company
like OZ Test, or SGS, otherwise they will not accept
their safety certification to cover you in insurance.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And is that because the products are being sold intnationally
and I want like the regulations to be met at
an international level or that that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But it's because os Test and SGS are reputable, so
it's not a little unknown testing company in China facts
that may not be as rigorous as an Australian testing.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Company, right right, That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So I had to send it off to Hong Kong
because they're not actually based to hear, and then once
they received the samples, it took seven to ten working
days and then I received a digital safety certificate back,
which is when I found out the dummy and the
rattle didn't pass safety testing, which is what led me
into my chakhara of the loophole. And that's how I
(17:08):
discovered the loophole. So it's really expensive to get your
product safety tested by a reputable testing company. So I
had spent a lot of money on the rattles because
I assumed they were safe. And I assumed they were
safe because when I started working or started designing the products,
I worked with a sustainability consultant and made sure that
(17:29):
the suppliers I partnered with aligned with my brand values.
So i'd like hand picked the suppliers that I wanted,
and then to find out that they were selling me
products that weren't safe for children like blew my mind.
So the dummy clip that I had it had wooden
balls in it, which is fine because they were secure,
(17:52):
but they didn't meet the impact test. So I sent
some to key and if you just did a light
tap with a hammer, the ball split, which then become
a checking hazard, which is right next to a kid's
face with their dummy So specifically that didn't pass. And
when I asked them if I could then just have
the dummy clip without the little wooden balls, the actual
(18:15):
gap in the dummy clip were too small. So there's
also regulations on how big or small the holes are
in case fingers get trapped.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Because the dummy clip is like crochet, right, and the
risk is like obviously if it's too small a finger
getting caught in circulation, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yes, so they didn't pass it when you bopped with
a hammer, So that was fine I was fine with
because I was like, holy moly, I would have I
could have really hurt a child with the rattle. I
could not understand how it didn't pass because it has
a spheric end, like on the end if it's got
a ball or a flat end. That has to meet
(18:52):
a certain size requirement. So I've always been told if
it's smaller than a twenty saint coin, don't give it
to a kid. Like common sense. You look something and
you're like, okay, that's more my child choke on it.
This was almost four centimeters, so it's almost twice a
twenty cent coin, but it still didn't actually make It
needs to be forty three millimeters and that's based purely
(19:14):
on the size of a baby's throat and if it
can call like airway obstruction and suffocation. So when that
came back as failing, I was wildly upset both that
I had bought this. If I hadn't have looked into
insurance and understood that I needed safety testing, I could
(19:35):
have been selling these to the market like my Frankie
was playing with them. Yeah, I didn't know that that
could have killed her, Like that is horrifying.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
And that you could be profiting off selling someone something
dangerous potentially.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
And you don't have to have insurance to sell toys.
I just like dotting all the teas and crossing the Wait,
that's wrong, crossing all the teeth. No, it was not I.
But I could have just brought those in and and
then sold them on Etsy, for example, without any business
insurance or safety certifications and had no drama, and all
(20:08):
of those parents would have bought those or their beautiful gifts.
So people buy them as keepsakes. Imagine sending that to
a friend and your friend's child suffocated. Like I had
spent a lot of money. Again, assuming that the rattles
would pass, I had ordered a large amount of each.
I had five different colors, and then they have to
test each of the colors because the silicon has different
(20:30):
chemicals in it, so they want to make sure each
of the silicon bowl colors are still safe for children
and consumption in your mouth. And they didn't. And so
I'd spent a lot of money on the rattles coming in,
and then it spent a lot of money getting them tested,
and then I couldn't understand. I didn't understand the safety
regulations well enough to understand why it didn't pass. And
(20:52):
then I went into a deep dive and spoke to
my friend in insurance and we found that that rule
it needs to be bigger than forty three, which it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
It was just under Oh, so they just send something
back and say it didn't pass, but they won't even
give you reasoning as to why no.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So I got an automated certain ungificate. It was so
this poor man Joe. Shout out to Joe. I have
emailed him so much in the last six months and
I had to get him to try and explain to
me why it didn't pass, which he did enough for
me to understand where to find the answers. And that's
when I found that in America, instead of safety toys,
(21:30):
we have standards for up to thirty six months in Australia.
In America they do zero to eighteen months, and then
eighteen months to thirty six months. So as your child grows,
their airways gets bigger, so the size that they can
play with is become smaller.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
It's different what they can choke on when there are
baby versus a toddler.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yes, if I had something small, Frankie has a tiny
little throat, so that small thing could block her airways.
That same small thing wouldn't block Billy's airways because she
has a larger rope. So the American standard because it
goes from zero to eighteen months, then eighteen months to
thirty six months. If I sent my rattles back to
(22:12):
the same testing company and had it tested under American standards,
that passed that with these so I could have just
got my safety certificate saying this is safe, and then
it's not a legal requirement for me to put up
the age, you know, the recommended age thirty six plus
or zero plus, and I could have sold that and
(22:32):
no one buys a rattle for a two year old,
so I could be selling it online and saying, look
it's been safety tested. My products are safe by this
baby shower gift box. Oh it has a rattle, but
that's not to use until the eighteen months.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That blew my mind because I just thought, you're definitely
done relying on the honesty and care factor of the
manufacturer and someone who is importing goods to Australia, who's
you know, working with us stuff. They're not going to
change it. They've got inventory that they need to move,
(23:05):
so literally they're just selling stuff being like, yeah, thirty
six months past, but really everyone buying it is buying
it for little little kids.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yes. What is actually terrifying now when I tell you
and I kept this little nugget of joy just for today,
is that the standard that I got my toys tested too.
We're in a transition period in Australia, so at the moment,
all products in Australia, every single toy now not dummy clips,
(23:36):
that is sold on the market is under the Consumer
Protection Notice of two thousand and three. So it is
not a legal requirement currently to have any of your
toys safety tested for anyone except for the dummy clips.
So anything you.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Go, she's in't a toy, it's not a toy.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
No, So half of the toys that are in my
house could potentially be unsafe.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, because it's not a legal requirement to happen, as
long as the business again goodwill you don't sell something. Well,
some people might sell things that they know not to
be safe. But again this is the As long as
you have done your safety checks personally to check your products,
(24:17):
or you've spoken to the manufacturer and they have said,
oh yes it's safety tested, then you're allowed to sell
it's not illegal to sell them. If you were then
caught or something happened to a child, the HBLEC will
stand in and they will basically you have to issue
a recall notice and then destroy all the product that
you have.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Well like at the end of the day, it's basically
just like a bit of a slap on the rist.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yes, generally speaking, it is a slap on the wrist,
which is wild to me.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I always would buy something for if it has a
five plus or whatnot on it, but I feel like
surely it should also be down to a parent's common sense.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Currently, it's not a legal requirement to put on an
age recommendation, so you'll see on lots of websites at
the moment that there's no recommended age because it's not
only requirement to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
What are these websites?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I feel like I've never once seen a toy
that didn't have an age requirement on it. So at Etsy,
that's like for personalized crap, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There was a stage everyone's buying wooden toys and there
weren't manufacturers in Australia that you could buy them from.
So Etsy, I know a lot of people that bought
like wooden toys from Etsy or a small business that
isn't obviously doing their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Like I have to actually go and get this one
toy to show you both, just.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Because this was something that when you are sent in
your submission and you were like, I'm horrified to admit
that I would look at these age things and not
think anything hadly of them. And I was so the same,
and that's why I just went, oh my god, Like
you know, I'm like, oh, they're just a guide, like
how important are they? But it turns out that they
are quite important if you are in fact using them
(25:59):
as a business.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yes, so I Hi, that's pretty This was eighty dollars.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But I bought it because he was obsessed with avacuses
and I got his little name on it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
These come out, yeah, so you just literally won.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
They come out and that's like bursting, really sharp and
then the balls come off.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, so that is choking like And this was like
eighty dollars, and.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I remember you putting that up on your stories.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I thought, I'm such a he was so.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Mad that inspent eighty dollars on it.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Hang on a minute, who wooden gifts and not being
tested off itsy.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I did not say that. I did not say that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I said the like little personalized stuff. I meant like toy.
This isn't what it is a toy, but it's more
like a decorative thing, is it.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's an advocus to play with.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I put it up high because I figured out it
was a final destination style toy waiting to happen.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
So I was a cramy for teacher. And in my
head everything is based on intelligence and ability, like if
you're in kindergarten, you may not necessarily be using scissors.
In my head, when I bought things, I did it
the other way. So my god son was eight and
I was like, oh, I bought him this origamy, but
it says three plus and I so embarrassed to me this,
(27:20):
and I'm like, but surely a three year old can't
do oragarmy like. But now that I understand that, it
wasn't about that. It's about small parts. And some of
them say three plus because it has small parts or
some small parts have choking hazards. So it's much clearer
on this labeling now. And the labeling from March is
(27:44):
a legal requirement to have both the warning and the
age recommendation, and the age recommendation has to match the
legal lab safety report.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That's good. So things are getting tighter, yes.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
But the mums and dads that are buying gifts that
are more like me and think it's based on intelligence
and ability, it's not. The three year olds still can't
do our agami, but the two year old would choke
on it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm not gonna lie. I just always thought that that
was an ability thing. Like I knew it was a
choking thing too. But if I'm looking at something that
I deem not to be choky, yeah, and it's like
four plus, I'm going, oh, that'll be fine. Sure.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But sometimes it's also about ability. Like there was an electric.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Card that I wanted to buy land but it said
on an eight plus and I was looking at it,
I was like, why is it eight plus?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But it was because the actual remote there was hapes
of different buttons.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
It wasn't just like two buttons, but it was still
like a screw up for the batteries like it was.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But do you think that actually was a safety thing
over an intelligence thing.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Battery operated toys they have a whole different set of
safety standards.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I reckon that would be down to the battery thing,
because you know how how bad they are for kids
when they swallow them.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, but that's why they all will most toys.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But what happens if a screw for us, They've got
to say.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I would love you to go home and have a
look at how many battery are for any things?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That she actually doesn't have any, mainly because battery means
sound noise.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Oh that's clever. I got Billy and elsadel that talks.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Actually, Ruth's got two Juana dolls for Christmas that talk,
so that we do. We've got some batteries stuff. Now,
Is that all you wanted to say about the labels?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yes, So when the labels just be aware that it
sounds really dumb. Because so I did a poll on
Instagram after we talked, as in, after you'd said yes,
let's do this podcast, because a lot of my followers
and mums so they said, yes, I knew what the
age grading was for, but about twenty five percent of
responses was still like I don't know what you're talking about,
(29:52):
or or I thought it was based on ability.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, okay, good, So we're not alone Kate, you're alone.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
No, we do. I think as parents look at as
you said, we look at something and we're like, Billy
can play with this, like I mean crafting, Quip in crafting, it's.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Me and she's old enough to do it, and she's
into it, and oh my god, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Oh it's only just started and it's great and it
brings me so much joy. They all say three puss,
So now she's actually three, but I did start that earlier.
So it is up to a parent or care decision
or like what they're going to give their child. But
we also apply common sense naturally, like I'm not going
to give Frankie some marbles to play with. I'm not
(30:37):
going to give Billy marbles to play with near Frankie.
But I would give Billy something to play with or
Frankie something to play with that I deem safe.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, it's so based on the kids as well.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Like I know some people wouldn't even think about, Like
I'm a puzzler, and for the first couple of years
of Lennie's life, I was banished with my puzzles. You
have to use your caddy in private, you have to
use your puzzle Caddy in private to puzzle. But now
Lenny's three, but he's never once put anything in his
(31:11):
mouth that shouldn't, so I have been allowed to make
my way out.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Rue has just started putting money in her mouth, and
I was like, like coins, we don't have many coins,
but we had some for some reason, and she never
really put stuff in her mouth, And then she started
putting coins, and I was like, I thought we were
past that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It's funny though, as well, except that Ru has just
started it. But when Billy realized that Frankie wasn't leaving,
she started becoming little Billy, and Little Billy started wing
and peing again, not in the toilet, but she also
wanted a bottle, and she also wanted all the toys
that Frankie was putting in her mouth. So if Frankie
(31:49):
does something and picks it up, I'm like, Frankie, no,
Billy will then copy it.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, it's been a very long seventeen months of my life.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
But black, Yeah, are there any products on the market
now that you like? If you're walking through the shops
or whatnot and you just think, what the actual fuck?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Not so much in the shops so generally speaking, bigger companies,
they still haven't had them necessarily safety tested. But you
can see things on the shelves that are generally age appropriate, yeah,
or like warning labels, and probably even safer than that
because they're not safety tested. So I got a soft
(32:34):
toy and I actually read that when I started looking
to this. So they went around the house and looked
at all the tags on things and it's for six
months plus and I'm like, but what would happen to
a baby? Like to me, I was like, well, that's
extra safe to me for a little soft toy for
my kid to play with.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Like they're erring on the side of caution, That's what
I was trying to say.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Retailers, Yeah, the big companies were generally just recolld the item.
So in December there was a like sensory baby ball
toy recalled from Kmart and in Halloween there was a
battery operated toy recalled from the reject shop. So that
still does happen. What I find terrifying about that is
(33:18):
that we don't go into the physical shops anymore. We
don't go into I mean we do, but eighty percent
of my purchases are on Amazon. But you know, when
I was little, I used to go to Castle Towers
and there'd be the sign on the front service desk
that would be like this product was recalled, and you'd
like you'd visually see that sign saying that it's recalled.
(33:39):
It's not an actual requirement if you don't have a
list of the customers that bought it. All you need
to do is a public notice. So you might post
it on your Instagram or you post it to the
atrix c website.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
But there's definitely going to be a percentage of people
that bought it that won't see it.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
No, how would I know that K might record a toy.
The only reason why I know that cameant recalled to
toys because I've been reading the recalled products and tracking
it on the website. I don't think other people do that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I actually did see the one about the km Art.
I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, and then you've got your mums, who like you,
share with your village. In stores, I find that they
are on the side of caution with their age recommendations
and safety warnings. Where I'm planning, there seems to be
a real influx of toys that may not be safe
are on online marketplaces, so it can be anything off
(34:35):
Etsy that says they're handmade.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
And also like I guess kind of similar to Etsy,
like small businesses that target you with their influx of
Insta ads or TikTok ads or whatever. But yeah, it's
just like they're just a random store. You've never heard
of them before.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
What is a good thing is from the fifth of
March this year, the transition phase from the two thousand
and three Safety Standard to the twenty twenty three safety
Standard will come into effect and it will be illegal
to sell toys for children under thirty six months without
land safety testing.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Ooh, that's great, that's really great.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The problem with that boat is that that doesn't mean
every toy will just magically be safety tested overnight. Like
it's amazing and I love it, and you can report
to ahril C and there is now something to back
you up legally, and you would hope that businesses start actioning.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It because there'll surely be a grace period, right because I.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Think that there already is a grace period. There was
a transition phase for the last eighteen months. Eighteen months
finishes in March, and it's on but if people aren't
on top of it, if they've just gotten an Etsy
stole and they've imported a bunch of stuff from China,
they're just passing it on to the next person. They
haven't got insurance, they haven't read all the safety just
to make a buck, or just a lack of awareness.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
In your situation, you had done a lot of inde
pendant safety checks and that you had chosen your you know,
your supplies really carefully.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
And yeah, I was still wrong.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And you were still wrong. So you know, there's there's
like kind of like a bit of a span there
of like obviously people who are evil, but we hope
that they are a very small percentage. And then probably
the majority of people are just you know, trying to
do a side hustle, thinking they've done enough and really
not understanding just kind of like how much testing should
(36:28):
be done and things like that. So this also was
going to apply to international companies though selling into Australia
or is it still going to be that there'll be
that loophole.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So it has to be safe up to thirty six
months under the safety standard. It's accepted if you have
yours tested under the Australian Safety Standard, the International Safety Standard,
the American Safety Standard or the European Safety Standard.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Or so it's not and so or any.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
They basically are very similar. The only difference is that
American one. So if I still got my rattle safety
tested under the American standard, I could legally sell that
in Australia as long as I put on eighteen months plus.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm thinking there's an example that Kelly and I talk
a little bit about in the lead up to before
your interview, where I talk about a teether that all
of my mother's group moms had. We all got them,
and they were so cute and really aesthetic. It was
like a wooden circle with these little rubber you know,
prongs that came off and they had little bumps on them.
(37:32):
And I always thought to myself, one of those things
came off, it's hard rubber and it's exactly the size
of their like airway.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Have you looked at the agel for c Yes, because
they feel.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Like it got re called, didn't it because one of
those things fell off. And I just thought I made
a judgment call in that moment to be like, ah,
she'll be right now. You won't like no, But I
think parents are making those little decisions all the time,
you know, the same thing, like with the knowledge of
(38:05):
we're so heavily regulated, surely it would be okay. But again,
I've got no idea where that tee that came from.
That was the first moment where for me I was
like WHOA. Like when I saw that recal come out,
I was like Jesus.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
And did you see it come out?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Though I only did because I think a toy shop,
like an online retailer that I follow posted something on
their Instagram or something like that, like, and I remember
sending it to all the girls being like, oh, I
knew there was something dodgy about my pa.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I was right by.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But that's the kind of thing Like I think that
many parents listening right now will have an AHA moment
or this conversation will spark an AHA moment about something
that your kids maybe picked up and played with at
some point.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I yes, this conversation it's going to make people pay
more attention.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's what I'm really hoping.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I mean, what I'm taking away from these is actually
thinking about what I'm purchasing. If I'm just buying something online,
not from like a actual retailler.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
So we Billy Frank did their first market stare before Christmas.
Was very exciting. No one was there, Oh my god.
Yeah at Wanner's Bay. So I'm officially in one as
Fay every three weeks. I'm a bit of a chatty Kathy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Well, there's nothing awkward about that.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
How many purchases have you made after having a really
long conversation with someone and just being like, no, I
have to purchase something like that's actually a good time.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah, this is true. Otherwise they just go and they're
gone and I'm like, come back, I haven't told you
about my first birthday party. There's an agreement that Amazon
has in Australia that the toys that come in are safe.
It's not necessarily that they are.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
It's a bit better though that maybe we're not making
awful decisions.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's still not on yeah no, and it's sort of
this agreement that they'll investigate it if it's not safe.
Choice are fighting to get TAMU to agree to it
and they're not.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
I just feel like we need to ban those sorts
of places from being able to sell in Australia.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Also, Temo should be banned when you are awake at
three I'm feeding a baby. Yeah, when it needs to
be banned, it just needs to be banned between the
hours of seven pm and seven am. I made many
a purchase. So the one that I am worried about
that is still being sold on the market is a
timber rattle or a beechwood rattle that has been recalled.
(40:28):
I wrote down the stats. It was wild like officially
recalled sixteen times since twenty twenty by over thirty different businesses.
So it's a really cute, aesthetically pleasing rattle that doesn't
meet the forty three millimeter requirement. And you'll find that
a lot of these companies that have had a recall
(40:51):
no longer exist, but then they can pop up in
it as a different company. One good thing is if
it was recalled and I used the manufacturer ABC, then
they would contact ABC and ask for all the Australian suppliers.
I think is how it works, so they can actually
work out who the manufacturers sent it to to do
(41:12):
the recall. The ones to be careful a if you're buying,
buy a small business, and I am a small business,
so I'm not telling you to not buy from small businesses,
Please come and buy my things. They are all safety testing.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Safety testing is what.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yes, yeah, I've actually put my safety testing certificates on
my website just so that people can see it, read it,
they can see what it's tested for and that it's
past safety testing. But a lot of people don't do that. Actually,
I don't think any other company that I know of
has posted the certifications. Sometimes they will have in like
a little bracket that it's been safety tested to the
(41:50):
Australian standard. Online business, small business amazing. I support them.
I am one just asked if they've had their products
safety tested if they act really dodgy and give you
a run around answer that probably don't have the safety.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Testing, And I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
The thing is is that when you're shopping from a
small business, you're generally paying a higher price because the
business has so many more costs involved, and the cost
of the units is so much more. Because you're paying
for that higher price, it's because you're dealing with a
smaller business. So you're well within your rights to ask
those questions. So no one should ever feel embarrassed or
like bad about asking those questions.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
So in the checklist I'm going to give you guys.
Number one is basically see if it is safety tested
to this standard. If it's not listed, then you just
approach the company or the manufacturer and they should be
able to give you a clear answer that yes, it
was tested underneath this standard. As of March, it is
a legal requirement for them to put on the warnings
and the age recommendation on all toys or the packaging
(42:56):
the toy is in, or any advertising. So if you
looked up something on Kmart, it will say recommended age
twelve months plus. That's from the safety certification, so you
know that it has been safety tested and isn't appropriate
for children under twelve months. I know we talked about
we make our own judgments with our children, but these
(43:16):
companies are doing the safety testing for a reason.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So on my spop businesses, we'll circle back. If you're
going to the markets, if they are handmade at the markets,
just double check the length of the dummy clip or
just give it a little pull and see if it's
going to come Undone TAMU, obviously I would say, is
ninety eight percent unsafe.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, aware.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
And the other one that I found interesting. When I
was researching, it was second hand stores. So we did
a I call it my toy swap. So we've moved
out of Sydney. I had no support here and on
a Friday I used to walk Billy up to the
Salvos and all the girls would hold her. And that's
so I used to buy the toys. We'd play with them,
then we'd take it and get a new toy in
(44:02):
that time. They're secondhand toys. They don't have packaging, so
I would have never known or thought about, oh, this
is not appropriate for Billy to be playing with, like
unless it was obvious. Like again, if it's a marvel,
I'm going to go, don't play with that. But it's
just being aware if you're buying something secondhand or if
marketplace Facebook Marketplace, maybe google it first.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, that is such a good point because.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It's so such a good idea. Can I say about
the second that's so smart.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I buy a lot of stuff secondhand off Facebook Marketplace,
and I'll never up the recommended age. I don't like,
I'm thinking of that thing that like the.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Little to be fair, you buy things that you've already
researched and want for her because she's at that age
and then you look on Facebook marketplace.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
To be fair, I'm going to give you.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
But I have a specifically the age thing, and I
think that's something that I will now add.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
I don't look at the age thing like I feel
like maybe I definitely should have been looking at the
age thing and not been like they don't have the
fine Modus goods fund.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I have always looked at the age thing.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
But that said, I would use my judgment though then yes.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Okay, so these are the things that I would recommend.
The three things that I would urge parents to do.
I check the packaging or tag for the statement saying
that it meets safety stand Australian safety standards. If you're
not sure, asks the brand directly. Responsible businesses should be
able to provide proof with no dodgy or vague answers.
One thing that would be mandatory from March which have said,
(45:34):
is to display the age recommendation based on the safety
testing results. And then I've written down just for me
and key. Remember that age recommendations aren't about intelligence or ability.
They're based on They're based on potential hazards for that
age group. So it's always best to follow them for
safety's sake. I feel so silly saying that, because I like,
(45:56):
I feel like that's something I should have known.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
No, I feel like if generally we're very few fifty
and then we find that the audience is very fifty
to fifty, So I'm going to say that I'm not
just trying to make you both feel better. I reckon
fifty percent of people probably are the same.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well as you said, if it's like a marble or
there's something like really obvious about it being you go, oh, yeah, definitely.
But if I'm looking at something that's like three plus,
I'm like, she's two and a hulfe, She's right fine, Like,
but like, I think you are making those observations. But
if something that you're looking at doesn't look particularly, you know, alarming,
you are disregarding that really like the right, I.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Say, did you look at that rattle and go, oh,
that's too small?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
No, I thought the original rattle, yeah beautiful. I was like,
I didn't think it was too small. In fact, I
both Charlie and I sat down with Charlie to look
through everything. I would have given that to rue, and
I'm pretty sure we have a rattle that's that size
that she didn't have, which I need to check when
I get home.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
This is the point that speaking of this like this
is where I got stuck. Is lastly checked. The toy
doesn't have any loose parts or stitching, which I think
we do naturally, but all the parts exactly that we
come or small parts that fit inside the cylinder of
a fifty cent coin. But it's actually bigger than that.
A fifty cent coin is thirty two mil. And what
(47:14):
they want it bigger is that a forty two mel.
But it's not twenty cents anymore. At least think about
a fifty cent coin, except no one will know what
a fifty cent coin is because we all play with
our phones. Then it just says in the end, it's
just trust your instincts. If something feels off, ask questions
and make sure they're safe and tested. If they are unsure,
don't give it to your child. If you're unsure, don't
(47:35):
buy it. If the business can't give you a clear
and concise answer, I also wouldn't buy it. And I
say this like I am a small business, and I
don't want anyone else to come out and be like, oh,
she's just saying this to put down other small not
to put down other business. But it's not it's not.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
Make you're right here, anyone that says that you're not.
You've talked about also that a lot of big Australian
retailers are following the rules more so than small businesses.
You're absolutely not saying don't shop at other businesses, only
shop at me.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
You're saying, yes, I do happen.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
To have these products, but these are the things that
you need to look out for in general. Yes, and
also fuck these small businesses but aren't doing their due diligence.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah, I just ask That's all I can say, Like,
have a look if it doesn't have the age recommendation.
Asked because it is a legal requirement. They have to
have a recommended age for their toys and for the
children under thirty six months.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
That was really, really informative and insightful. I think both
of us are walking away from this convo feeling a
little bit more educated on what we should and shouldn't
be looking.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
I think that's just you and me.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Key, Yeah, Kelly's all I read, except for the batteries, which.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
We're all going to have to look up. This car
now batteries.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
They are new purchases, and I shall be putting some
celotape over that thing so it can't be opened.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Well, Billy's Elsa is not a new purchase, and it
is from a marketplace, so probably extra unsafe.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I'm doing the best weekend.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
I think that, No, it's not like this wild crazy story,
but it's actually so much more important than a wild
crazy story, like this.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Is the sort of thing so important.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
It's just so like we need to know these things
and we don't, So that's right. I think it's so good.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
If you're worried also with something or something, guys, please
report it to the agriple seat. You can report it
anonymously if you have pictures of it breaking, put pictures
in and they have to investigate that. Even if that
company isn't fined or the only ramification is that they
recall it, they're still recalling it and no other child
will have that toy. And I followed that ageable seat
(49:43):
on Instagram too, and they don't seem to be putting
up the well. I couldn't find pictures of product recalls
and it's such a weird. That's weird. As my advice
but is keep an eye or if you're bored, or
if you're doing a three a M feed, just keep
an eye on what has been recalled because you might
have been gifted that toy, so you're not following them
on Instagram or on social media so you won't see
(50:05):
their public recall.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
When it comes to your kids, like, we have to
protect them and parents are tired, they're new parents, they
might not know, like you're just trying to do the
best you can. We need to have these little kind
of checkpoints in place in a country that is so regulated.
It's insane to me that it's taken this long.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I can't believe it's not illegal and hasn't been illegal
to sell toys that aren't safety tested.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
That blew my mind. It's like, okay, cool, so we're
just selling death traps. That's great, lovely, Well, thank you
so much for coming on.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Kay.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
We loved so yeah, and we're stoked that you are, yeah,
taking this up as your little passion project to bring
awareness to safety and regulations of toys in Australia for
our little kiddos to remain safe.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I really just want people to buy safe toys for
their children. Also, I sell bibs. Yes, so esthetics. We
have beautiful bibs and I've designed one for the Australian
climate that still covers your clothes.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Oh yeah, well, thank you Kate so much for that interview.
I feel a lot more prepared and informed and educated.
Kelly probably feels about the same.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
The information was very interesting.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Yeah, it won't make my purchasing decisions any different, but.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
But it might help a few of you out then. Also,
I think also when you're purchasing things for other people
as well.
Speaker 4 (51:33):
Especially I love buying like personalized things from Etsy or
from the markets.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It definitely has changed.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
The way I'm sure for sure that was pretty something
about its small businesses.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
But but yeah, we can still still put the ones
that are you buy closing stuff totally things that aren't Toky.
Thank you so much for joining us today. I remember
you can share the pod on your socials. This is
an important episode, so I encourage you to share far
and wide and let us know what you think and
what you want to hear. We would love your feedback.
As always, you can tag us at key Reese and
at Kelly Underscore mccaren and at e SSR dot pod
(52:08):
on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
This episode was produced by myself, Kelly McCarran key re Cells,
with audio production by Maddie Joanna See you next week.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Shitter is Bye Bye
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So what products have always been safety tested?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
None?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
None?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
I'm sorry, what because it's not a legal requirement.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello, welcome back. This is eat Sleeve Shit Repeat the.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Wildly Unhinged Podcast, hopefully your favorite podcast about the madness
that is motherhood and everything in between.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Kelly McCarran and I'm kirious selves and I want
to say something I have not stopped thinking about it.
Episode from last week, if you missed it, we spoke
to a fascinating shitter, Kirsty, who was Australia's first uterus
transplant recipient, with her donut being her mum.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Honestly, modern medicine collapse. Yeah, well done, modern medicine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Big ups.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
If you told us what could happen maybe thirty years ago,
we would not have believed it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We simply would not have believed it. Actually, to be fair,
we did believe that cars would fly.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Think about that, and we still don't really have them
at all.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But medicine, at least the important things are fancy so true.
On the show today, we are talking to another fabulous shitter, Kate,
who while on Matt Lee decided to launch a little
side hustle designing baby products. She quickly learned about the
complex world of Australian toy safety standards and regulations and
even loopholes, discovering that a surprising number of businesses don't
(01:24):
go through proper safety testing yet still sell products for
infants in toddlers, which is barbaric if you ask.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Me, Yeah, piping hot tea. We get into it. It's
really interesting and it's also shocking, but it's a chat
that we hope will have an impact on the safety
of our little.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Shitters, because I think that, like, if we just said
all this episode's about toy safety, it sounds like it's
going to be boring, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
We chose Kate because we read her message and we
were like, I'm sorry, what.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, it gets more and more shocking, but there is
hope as well. It's all doom and gloom.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
She's also just like hilarious, has a lot of funny
tale and we go off on some tangent, so it's
a great episode.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
As always, it wouldn't be an Shitter interview if we
didn't go off on a tangent. Australian toy standards and regulation.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh my god, it sounds like we're on the news
with that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's not very sexy, but it is very interesting for
how regulated we are as a country. I don't think
I'm alone and assuming that this would extend to the
toys and accessories and pacify thing he's on the market
for our kids. I specifically remember this teether that I
was gifted or purchased for rou when she was really little.
It was like a wooden circle with four to six
(02:32):
little wooden knobs on the outside, resembling the shape of
the sun. And then these little knobs had these little
rubber circles attached to the end, and they were really
rock hard. I remember looking at these little rubber circles
and thinking that they were like hard blueberries, and very
much the shape and size that I had heard so
many times were a massive choking hazard. And then I
(02:53):
remembered thinking, well, these are being sold everywhere. Surely the
safety standard of the product has been tested, and on
I went with my day. A few weeks later, I
came across a product recall. One of those knobs that
I had been concerned about had detached from that toy
and a kid had choked on it. That was a
huge red flag for me as a first time parent.
Never assume and always trust your gut. Call. Have you
(03:15):
had any eerie moments with toys like that?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
For Lainn, every time I ever received something or opened
to something and I had a weird feeling about it,
even if it said it was fine on the packet,
I just chucked it away.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh wait, put it away.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Like as we discussed in the episode, I have like
this little abaces Thini that I bought. It immediately just
went on a high shelf away from Lenny so it
could be for esthetic purposes. I also remember I got
a what are those things called the dong you go
dongdongdong dong dong dong dong dong dong oh xylophone.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, they are like little weapons.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
They're really sharp on the corners. So just stuff like
that that I just immediately. No one's ever even said anything,
They've never been product recall, but I'm like, that is
a weapon and that shall not be being used.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, well not all of us are that smart. And
that tea that has always stuck with me. I think
that's why I was so keen to talk to our
guest Kate today.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Kate is a shitter, e mum of two, and a
small business owner. Her story came through in a call
out I did for fascinating stories. And while Kate's story
might not be wildly outlandish, these are her words, not ours.
It's quite eye opening, which is why we chose her,
especially for other parents. While on maternity leave, Kate started
building a small business, Billy Frank the Label, hoping to
(04:27):
stay home with her two daughters a little bit longer.
As she designed baby products, what she learned about the
safety of some products was so eye opening and shocking.
And after navigating the process and meeting all the safety standards,
which is actually a huge sleigh and way more involved
than you. Well, it should be way more involved, but
it's surprising how many people don't involve themselves anyway. For
(04:47):
her own products, she now feels a responsibility to raise
awareness and help other parents make informed, safe choices. Welcome Kate.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Firstly, we want to commend you on launching a small
business on Matt Lee. If that's no small feet, I
want to remind everyone that I too, launched ESSR on
my Matt Leaf and you did too, but you didn't
really take any mat leave, so we'll forget about that.
Can you took us through the decision to dive into
designing baby products? Where do we even start with something
like that?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I guess the decision to dive into designing baby products
specifically was a natural step because I was living and
breathing all things baby. I still am and have been
since the end of twenty twenty one when Billy was born.
When Billy was six months old, to celebrate surviving six months,
we went to Fiji, which was very exciting and I
(05:39):
was so excited to show off my baby Billy to
the world because we got pregnant in COVID and then
we moved out of Sydney and the day that lockdown
finished in Sydney, it actually came into effect in Newcastle,
which is where we moved, so that was fun for
me anyway. So no one knew I was pregnant except
the people that I worked with, and even then they
hadn't seen my bump because I was from home and
(06:01):
we didn't announce it to social media. So I was
really excited. I was going to show off my kid
to the world. But she weaned herself while we were there,
and she started baby leg weaning, so she was eating,
which was super cute and messy. But all of my
beautiful photos of us in Fiji are her wearing a
gray table napkin around her neck to catch all the food.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
It's not aesthetic, No, it wasn't aesthetically pleasing, No, couldn't,
so my photos weren't going Look, I survied pregnancy and
I did breast beating.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I haven't slept, but look happy my baby is. So
that was upsetting. So then fast forward a year, so
I had Frankie and she was six months old, so
we did the same thing to go away, but I
was pretty determined to take an aesthetically pleasing bib that
actually you could wipe down, that was waterproof, because what
I found is if you're on holidays, you don't have
(06:55):
a washing machine. And Frankie had just started baby leg weaning.
So I bought all these very very cute outfits, and
then I didn't want them to get ruined because if
you're going out to breakfast again, you don't have a
washing machine. So I started researching. I wanted one that
was waterproof that you could wipe off, and one that
was aesthetically pleasing and not blue with a truck or
(07:16):
pink with a unicorn, and I couldn't find anything at all.
I ended up buying one that was reasonably cute to
look at, but actually quite useless in actually keeping my
kids clean. So that is where it started from, basically
messy baby lead weening and sick of doing a two
bib situation or ruining clothes because I'm not very good
(07:39):
at washing. I'm terrible at getting stains out.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Sam.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I think that's so great though, like you solved a
problem that is very real for parents, especially in those
baby lead weaning like stages. And also there's it's really
difficult to find ones that actually work as well because
they're not designed properly. I think, yeah, there's a lot
of dodgy ones out there. So I love that you
sold an issue.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yes, and so it was based off both my girls.
So I did some of the bits. There's a you'd
be shocked, No, there's a matching one for a baby
and a toddler. Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I actually did receive those and rue was so excited
because lots of stuff's been coming for the baby, and
she was like Rual, but she also tried to steal
the teddy Bear, and I was like.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
That's not the baby.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
The baby has no new stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
You will find out soon, Key that no one acknowledges
that you have a second baby. So the first baby,
everyone's very excited and sends your baby shower gifts and congratulations.
The second one comes in this crickets. So I got
one really beautiful gift for Frankie and it really made
me think about those gifts that you keep as keepsakes.
(08:48):
We've got one really nice gift from when I mean,
all the gifts really lovely, but one was this really
beautiful tea that in that beech wood, and Frankie got
a really beautiful one for her birthday. So that's where
it led from Bibbs.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
From Bibbs, I think that's brilliant though, And also I
really love that idea of like having something that's just
a really nice gift that they will want to keep
and maybe like put on their little Like Lenny's got
this little display cabinet thing that well, actually it's mainly
just where I put things that I've ordered on Etsy
that are wildly unsafe for him to use, so that
(09:26):
they look cute.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So I put them up there.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I will talk to you about Etsy when we get
to it as well.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh my god, okay great. As part of the gift,
one of the gifts packs that you have, You've got
a really cute, beautiful, very aesthetic dummy clip.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So can you talk us through.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
The testing process of a baby product like a dummy clip?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Who carries it out?
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Like how long does it typolically take? And what is
done to the product to test its safety? Because Lenny
huge dummy kid baby, and we had dummy clips the
law when he was little, and I think only ever
had one that was actually cute with his little.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Name on it. The rest was so hideous.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And then yeah, I did read I just never thought
about anything. I was never going to put one on
him to sleep anyway. But then yeah, I read something
about like some of them could be dangerous.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, it's actually wild because in my head, if I
neither of my girls to get dummy, because why would
they want to sleep and let me sleep? But I
would never have bought one and considered that someone would
be selling something that wasn't safe, Like I would have
just looked at it unless it was really obvious, like
bits were falling off and it was loose, I'd be like, oh,
that's cute. Like we were given them for both girls,
(10:40):
and I didn't think anything of it. I'm like, oh,
that's cute, but neither used to dummy.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm pretty naive.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I just always I think I like to give people
the benefit of a doubt as well, and I just
think that people aren't out to get us, so I
agree as well, Like I would just assume that a
company that's selling a baby toy it would be safe
for a baby.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You would assume that is the assumption that many people
make and what.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I should be able to do technically, like you would think, you.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Would think and hope. However, in all the research that
I've done recently, it's not necessarily true with a dummy clip,
though it is different slightly so for dummy clips specifically,
in twenty seventeen, the Consumer Goods Baby Dummy and Dummy
Change Safety Standard was brought in, so from twenty seventeen
it was illegal to sell a dummy clip that wasn't
(11:32):
safety tested.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So what products have always been safety tested?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
None?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
None?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, it's going to blow your mind. So this as well,
I went, Really, I'd like deep dived into it since
we've spoken, and it's actually blowing my mind. So my
friend works for one of the top global insurance companies
at a very high level. With the old standard, which
was a two thousand and three standard, it just said
(11:59):
you don't willingly knowingly sell toys that aren't safe. So
if I looked if I made a toy and I went, yep,
this is good, it's safe, I could sell it. If
I heard a child the a triple C can then
choose to recall it. They can then choose to find you,
and if it goes to court, they'll look deeply into
(12:21):
the lads, We'll look into it and see if you
have actually done accountability and made sure that the product
was safe.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So basically they're relying on your due diligence and you're
like call on whether or not your product is safe.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
And more than likely, in general, I would say you
might get a slap on the wrist.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Really no real life consequences.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I went back to look at these statistics report and
I can't find anything significant about big insurance claims on
products where the child has been hurt. Does that make sense?
So it hasn't got to that level but in saying
that if toy that I was given broke, I would
just put it in the bin.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, so true. Unless something dire happens, you're not going
to report it.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
No, And I think this is what we need to
be doing, Like I really so, I would really like
this to be a bit of a passion project for
me because everyone that I've spoken to again just assumes
that it's safe. So if I bought something, I would
assume it was safe. But if I bought something off Temu,
definitely don't make that assumption.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No exactly, but then they're all coming from the.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Same way, but because it's sold under an Australian business,
you assume it. And even that I bought toys for
Billy for the plane to go to Fiji, and I
just bought off Amazon and they definitely were not safe.
Like now that I reflect and I'm like, oh, that
was a strangling raceaw you would have choked one that
(13:50):
this is fun shit.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I'm just thinking about the trip I did to Europe
and all of the things I got off Amazon there, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, because Amazon is just the Australian Temu. Yes, if
I don't want to wait two weeks for that toy.
I will pay Amazon three times and have it the
next day.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, oh my god, Kate, you're going to die.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Actually, just as we were just talking and Amazon delivery
arrived that I ordered at ten pm last night.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
See this is why Amazon's great.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Because I was like, I need an iPad cover. We're
going on a plane. And then I was like, oh,
just get one and get it delivered tomorrow. Yeah, brilliant,
and I would who knows what it's made of?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Who knows? So it arrived today, Yep.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Definitely wasn't made in Australia.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Convenience. Yeah, what we really care about. It's al how
soon into your process of designing did you sort of
become aware of these Well it's not even loopholes.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So that's interesting as well. So you and I talked
about the loophole because that's something I got really caught on.
I was so upset by it that there was a
loophole that people could go through if they wanted to
with safety testing, which I thought was horrible, Like, I
can't imagine risking a child's life to make free dooms.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The loophole that we're talking about. Sorry, assumed knowledge or
just rewind it back a little bit. So the first
kind of thing that shocked you was a loophole around
the rattles. Yeah, the sizing. Can you talk us through that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I definitely can. So with the dummies, they test for
four things. The length must not exceed twenty two centimeters
otherwise it's a strangulation risk. The strength is tested to
make sure you can't break or tear under pressure. Then
the little clip is open and shut multiple times to
make sure that it won't break. And then there's not
(15:31):
allowed to be any details or labels on dummy clips.
So they're the four things they test for.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Who are you sending it to? Are you paying for
it to be done? It's not being sent to a
regulatory board like you're sending it to a private lab.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes. So there's oz Test, which is an Australian based
testing company and they test everything under the sun, not
just toys. Then there's another company that is a world
no one called SGS, which is a globally international testing company.
So I went through them. Generally speaking, at the moment,
if you're trying to get insurance that cover your toys
(16:08):
or baby products, the insurance companies prefer international testing company
like OZ Test, or SGS, otherwise they will not accept
their safety certification to cover you in insurance.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And is that because the products are being sold intnationally
and I want like the regulations to be met at
an international level or that that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But it's because os Test and SGS are reputable, so
it's not a little unknown testing company in China facts
that may not be as rigorous as an Australian testing.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Company, right right, That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So I had to send it off to Hong Kong
because they're not actually based to hear, and then once
they received the samples, it took seven to ten working
days and then I received a digital safety certificate back,
which is when I found out the dummy and the
rattle didn't pass safety testing, which is what led me
into my chakhara of the loophole. And that's how I
(17:08):
discovered the loophole. So it's really expensive to get your
product safety tested by a reputable testing company. So I
had spent a lot of money on the rattles because
I assumed they were safe. And I assumed they were
safe because when I started working or started designing the products,
I worked with a sustainability consultant and made sure that
(17:29):
the suppliers I partnered with aligned with my brand values.
So i'd like hand picked the suppliers that I wanted,
and then to find out that they were selling me
products that weren't safe for children like blew my mind.
So the dummy clip that I had it had wooden
balls in it, which is fine because they were secure,
(17:52):
but they didn't meet the impact test. So I sent
some to key and if you just did a light
tap with a hammer, the ball split, which then become
a checking hazard, which is right next to a kid's
face with their dummy So specifically that didn't pass. And
when I asked them if I could then just have
the dummy clip without the little wooden balls, the actual
(18:15):
gap in the dummy clip were too small. So there's
also regulations on how big or small the holes are
in case fingers get trapped.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Because the dummy clip is like crochet, right, and the
risk is like obviously if it's too small a finger
getting caught in circulation, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yes, so they didn't pass it when you bopped with
a hammer, So that was fine I was fine with
because I was like, holy moly, I would have I
could have really hurt a child with the rattle. I
could not understand how it didn't pass because it has
a spheric end, like on the end if it's got
a ball or a flat end. That has to meet
(18:52):
a certain size requirement. So I've always been told if
it's smaller than a twenty saint coin, don't give it
to a kid. Like common sense. You look something and
you're like, okay, that's more my child choke on it.
This was almost four centimeters, so it's almost twice a
twenty cent coin, but it still didn't actually make It
needs to be forty three millimeters and that's based purely
(19:14):
on the size of a baby's throat and if it
can call like airway obstruction and suffocation. So when that
came back as failing, I was wildly upset both that
I had bought this. If I hadn't have looked into
insurance and understood that I needed safety testing, I could
(19:35):
have been selling these to the market like my Frankie
was playing with them. Yeah, I didn't know that that
could have killed her, Like that is horrifying.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
And that you could be profiting off selling someone something
dangerous potentially.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
And you don't have to have insurance to sell toys.
I just like dotting all the teas and crossing the Wait,
that's wrong, crossing all the teeth. No, it was not I.
But I could have just brought those in and and
then sold them on Etsy, for example, without any business
insurance or safety certifications and had no drama, and all
(20:08):
of those parents would have bought those or their beautiful gifts.
So people buy them as keepsakes. Imagine sending that to
a friend and your friend's child suffocated. Like I had
spent a lot of money. Again, assuming that the rattles
would pass, I had ordered a large amount of each.
I had five different colors, and then they have to
test each of the colors because the silicon has different
(20:30):
chemicals in it, so they want to make sure each
of the silicon bowl colors are still safe for children
and consumption in your mouth. And they didn't. And so
I'd spent a lot of money on the rattles coming in,
and then it spent a lot of money getting them tested,
and then I couldn't understand. I didn't understand the safety
regulations well enough to understand why it didn't pass. And
(20:52):
then I went into a deep dive and spoke to
my friend in insurance and we found that that rule
it needs to be bigger than forty three, which it wasn't.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
It was just under Oh, so they just send something
back and say it didn't pass, but they won't even
give you reasoning as to why no.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So I got an automated certain ungificate. It was so
this poor man Joe. Shout out to Joe. I have
emailed him so much in the last six months and
I had to get him to try and explain to
me why it didn't pass, which he did enough for
me to understand where to find the answers. And that's
when I found that in America, instead of safety toys,
(21:30):
we have standards for up to thirty six months in Australia.
In America they do zero to eighteen months, and then
eighteen months to thirty six months. So as your child grows,
their airways gets bigger, so the size that they can
play with is become smaller.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
It's different what they can choke on when there are
baby versus a toddler.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yes, if I had something small, Frankie has a tiny
little throat, so that small thing could block her airways.
That same small thing wouldn't block Billy's airways because she
has a larger rope. So the American standard because it
goes from zero to eighteen months, then eighteen months to
thirty six months. If I sent my rattles back to
(22:12):
the same testing company and had it tested under American standards,
that passed that with these so I could have just
got my safety certificate saying this is safe, and then
it's not a legal requirement for me to put up
the age, you know, the recommended age thirty six plus
or zero plus, and I could have sold that and
(22:32):
no one buys a rattle for a two year old,
so I could be selling it online and saying, look
it's been safety tested. My products are safe by this
baby shower gift box. Oh it has a rattle, but
that's not to use until the eighteen months.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That blew my mind because I just thought, you're definitely
done relying on the honesty and care factor of the
manufacturer and someone who is importing goods to Australia, who's
you know, working with us stuff. They're not going to
change it. They've got inventory that they need to move,
(23:05):
so literally they're just selling stuff being like, yeah, thirty
six months past, but really everyone buying it is buying
it for little little kids.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yes. What is actually terrifying now when I tell you
and I kept this little nugget of joy just for today,
is that the standard that I got my toys tested too.
We're in a transition period in Australia, so at the moment,
all products in Australia, every single toy now not dummy clips,
(23:36):
that is sold on the market is under the Consumer
Protection Notice of two thousand and three. So it is
not a legal requirement currently to have any of your
toys safety tested for anyone except for the dummy clips.
So anything you.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Go, she's in't a toy, it's not a toy.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
No, So half of the toys that are in my
house could potentially be unsafe.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, because it's not a legal requirement to happen, as
long as the business again goodwill you don't sell something. Well,
some people might sell things that they know not to
be safe. But again this is the As long as
you have done your safety checks personally to check your products,
(24:17):
or you've spoken to the manufacturer and they have said,
oh yes it's safety tested, then you're allowed to sell
it's not illegal to sell them. If you were then
caught or something happened to a child, the HBLEC will
stand in and they will basically you have to issue
a recall notice and then destroy all the product that
you have.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Well like at the end of the day, it's basically
just like a bit of a slap on the rist.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yes, generally speaking, it is a slap on the wrist,
which is wild to me.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I always would buy something for if it has a
five plus or whatnot on it, but I feel like
surely it should also be down to a parent's common sense.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Currently, it's not a legal requirement to put on an
age recommendation, so you'll see on lots of websites at
the moment that there's no recommended age because it's not
only requirement to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
What are these websites?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I feel like I've never once seen a toy
that didn't have an age requirement on it. So at Etsy,
that's like for personalized crap, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
There was a stage everyone's buying wooden toys and there
weren't manufacturers in Australia that you could buy them from.
So Etsy, I know a lot of people that bought
like wooden toys from Etsy or a small business that
isn't obviously doing their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Like I have to actually go and get this one
toy to show you both, just.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Because this was something that when you are sent in
your submission and you were like, I'm horrified to admit
that I would look at these age things and not
think anything hadly of them. And I was so the same,
and that's why I just went, oh my god, Like
you know, I'm like, oh, they're just a guide, like
how important are they? But it turns out that they
are quite important if you are in fact using them
(25:59):
as a business.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yes, so I Hi, that's pretty This was eighty dollars.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But I bought it because he was obsessed with avacuses
and I got his little name on it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
These come out, yeah, so you just literally won.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
They come out and that's like bursting, really sharp and
then the balls come off.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, so that is choking like And this was like
eighty dollars, and.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I remember you putting that up on your stories.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I thought, I'm such a he was so.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Mad that inspent eighty dollars on it.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Hang on a minute, who wooden gifts and not being
tested off itsy.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I did not say that. I did not say that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I said the like little personalized stuff. I meant like toy.
This isn't what it is a toy, but it's more
like a decorative thing, is it.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's an advocus to play with.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I put it up high because I figured out it
was a final destination style toy waiting to happen.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
So I was a cramy for teacher. And in my
head everything is based on intelligence and ability, like if
you're in kindergarten, you may not necessarily be using scissors.
In my head, when I bought things, I did it
the other way. So my god son was eight and
I was like, oh, I bought him this origamy, but
it says three plus and I so embarrassed to me this,
(27:20):
and I'm like, but surely a three year old can't
do oragarmy like. But now that I understand that, it
wasn't about that. It's about small parts. And some of
them say three plus because it has small parts or
some small parts have choking hazards. So it's much clearer
on this labeling now. And the labeling from March is
(27:44):
a legal requirement to have both the warning and the
age recommendation, and the age recommendation has to match the
legal lab safety report.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That's good. So things are getting tighter, yes.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
But the mums and dads that are buying gifts that
are more like me and think it's based on intelligence
and ability, it's not. The three year olds still can't
do our agami, but the two year old would choke
on it.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm not gonna lie. I just always thought that that
was an ability thing. Like I knew it was a
choking thing too. But if I'm looking at something that
I deem not to be choky, yeah, and it's like
four plus, I'm going, oh, that'll be fine. Sure.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But sometimes it's also about ability. Like there was an electric.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Card that I wanted to buy land but it said
on an eight plus and I was looking at it,
I was like, why is it eight plus?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But it was because the actual remote there was hapes
of different buttons.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
It wasn't just like two buttons, but it was still
like a screw up for the batteries like it was.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But do you think that actually was a safety thing
over an intelligence thing.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Battery operated toys they have a whole different set of
safety standards.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I reckon that would be down to the battery thing,
because you know how how bad they are for kids
when they swallow them.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, but that's why they all will most toys.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
But what happens if a screw for us, They've got
to say.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I would love you to go home and have a
look at how many battery are for any things?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That she actually doesn't have any, mainly because battery means
sound noise.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Oh that's clever. I got Billy and elsadel that talks.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Actually, Ruth's got two Juana dolls for Christmas that talk,
so that we do. We've got some batteries stuff. Now,
Is that all you wanted to say about the labels?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yes, So when the labels just be aware that it
sounds really dumb. Because so I did a poll on
Instagram after we talked, as in, after you'd said yes,
let's do this podcast, because a lot of my followers
and mums so they said, yes, I knew what the
age grading was for, but about twenty five percent of
responses was still like I don't know what you're talking about,
(29:52):
or or I thought it was based on ability.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, okay, good, So we're not alone Kate, you're alone.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
No, we do. I think as parents look at as
you said, we look at something and we're like, Billy
can play with this, like I mean crafting, Quip in crafting, it's.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Me and she's old enough to do it, and she's
into it, and oh my god, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Oh it's only just started and it's great and it
brings me so much joy. They all say three puss,
So now she's actually three, but I did start that earlier.
So it is up to a parent or care decision
or like what they're going to give their child. But
we also apply common sense naturally, like I'm not going
to give Frankie some marbles to play with. I'm not
(30:37):
going to give Billy marbles to play with near Frankie.
But I would give Billy something to play with or
Frankie something to play with that I deem safe.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, it's so based on the kids as well.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Like I know some people wouldn't even think about, Like
I'm a puzzler, and for the first couple of years
of Lennie's life, I was banished with my puzzles. You
have to use your caddy in private, you have to
use your puzzle Caddy in private to puzzle. But now
Lenny's three, but he's never once put anything in his
(31:11):
mouth that shouldn't, so I have been allowed to make
my way out.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Rue has just started putting money in her mouth, and
I was like, like coins, we don't have many coins,
but we had some for some reason, and she never
really put stuff in her mouth, And then she started
putting coins, and I was like, I thought we were
past that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
It's funny though, as well, except that Ru has just
started it. But when Billy realized that Frankie wasn't leaving,
she started becoming little Billy, and Little Billy started wing
and peing again, not in the toilet, but she also
wanted a bottle, and she also wanted all the toys
that Frankie was putting in her mouth. So if Frankie
(31:49):
does something and picks it up, I'm like, Frankie, no,
Billy will then copy it.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, it's been a very long seventeen months of my life.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
But black, Yeah, are there any products on the market
now that you like? If you're walking through the shops
or whatnot and you just think, what the actual fuck?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Not so much in the shops so generally speaking, bigger companies,
they still haven't had them necessarily safety tested. But you
can see things on the shelves that are generally age appropriate, yeah,
or like warning labels, and probably even safer than that
because they're not safety tested. So I got a soft
(32:34):
toy and I actually read that when I started looking
to this. So they went around the house and looked
at all the tags on things and it's for six
months plus and I'm like, but what would happen to
a baby? Like to me, I was like, well, that's
extra safe to me for a little soft toy for
my kid to play with.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Like they're erring on the side of caution, That's what
I was trying to say.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Retailers, Yeah, the big companies were generally just recolld the item.
So in December there was a like sensory baby ball
toy recalled from Kmart and in Halloween there was a
battery operated toy recalled from the reject shop. So that
still does happen. What I find terrifying about that is
(33:18):
that we don't go into the physical shops anymore. We
don't go into I mean we do, but eighty percent
of my purchases are on Amazon. But you know, when
I was little, I used to go to Castle Towers
and there'd be the sign on the front service desk
that would be like this product was recalled, and you'd
like you'd visually see that sign saying that it's recalled.
(33:39):
It's not an actual requirement if you don't have a
list of the customers that bought it. All you need
to do is a public notice. So you might post
it on your Instagram or you post it to the
atrix c website.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
But there's definitely going to be a percentage of people
that bought it that won't see it.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
No, how would I know that K might record a toy.
The only reason why I know that cameant recalled to
toys because I've been reading the recalled products and tracking
it on the website. I don't think other people do that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I actually did see the one about the km Art.
I don't know how.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, and then you've got your mums, who like you,
share with your village. In stores, I find that they
are on the side of caution with their age recommendations
and safety warnings. Where I'm planning, there seems to be
a real influx of toys that may not be safe
are on online marketplaces, so it can be anything off
(34:35):
Etsy that says they're handmade.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
And also like I guess kind of similar to Etsy,
like small businesses that target you with their influx of
Insta ads or TikTok ads or whatever. But yeah, it's
just like they're just a random store. You've never heard
of them before.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
What is a good thing is from the fifth of
March this year, the transition phase from the two thousand
and three Safety Standard to the twenty twenty three safety
Standard will come into effect and it will be illegal
to sell toys for children under thirty six months without
land safety testing.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Ooh, that's great, that's really great.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The problem with that boat is that that doesn't mean
every toy will just magically be safety tested overnight. Like
it's amazing and I love it, and you can report
to ahril C and there is now something to back
you up legally, and you would hope that businesses start actioning.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It because there'll surely be a grace period, right because I.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Think that there already is a grace period. There was
a transition phase for the last eighteen months. Eighteen months
finishes in March, and it's on but if people aren't
on top of it, if they've just gotten an Etsy
stole and they've imported a bunch of stuff from China,
they're just passing it on to the next person. They
haven't got insurance, they haven't read all the safety just
to make a buck, or just a lack of awareness.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
In your situation, you had done a lot of inde
pendant safety checks and that you had chosen your you know,
your supplies really carefully.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
And yeah, I was still wrong.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
And you were still wrong. So you know, there's there's
like kind of like a bit of a span there
of like obviously people who are evil, but we hope
that they are a very small percentage. And then probably
the majority of people are just you know, trying to
do a side hustle, thinking they've done enough and really
not understanding just kind of like how much testing should
(36:28):
be done and things like that. So this also was
going to apply to international companies though selling into Australia
or is it still going to be that there'll be
that loophole.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
So it has to be safe up to thirty six
months under the safety standard. It's accepted if you have
yours tested under the Australian Safety Standard, the International Safety Standard,
the American Safety Standard or the European Safety Standard.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Or so it's not and so or any.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
They basically are very similar. The only difference is that
American one. So if I still got my rattle safety
tested under the American standard, I could legally sell that
in Australia as long as I put on eighteen months plus.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm thinking there's an example that Kelly and I talk
a little bit about in the lead up to before
your interview, where I talk about a teether that all
of my mother's group moms had. We all got them,
and they were so cute and really aesthetic. It was
like a wooden circle with these little rubber you know,
prongs that came off and they had little bumps on them.
(37:32):
And I always thought to myself, one of those things
came off, it's hard rubber and it's exactly the size
of their like airway.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Have you looked at the agel for c Yes, because
they feel.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Like it got re called, didn't it because one of
those things fell off. And I just thought I made
a judgment call in that moment to be like, ah,
she'll be right now. You won't like no, But I
think parents are making those little decisions all the time,
you know, the same thing, like with the knowledge of
(38:05):
we're so heavily regulated, surely it would be okay. But again,
I've got no idea where that tee that came from.
That was the first moment where for me I was
like WHOA. Like when I saw that recal come out,
I was like Jesus.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
And did you see it come out?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Though I only did because I think a toy shop,
like an online retailer that I follow posted something on
their Instagram or something like that, like, and I remember
sending it to all the girls being like, oh, I
knew there was something dodgy about my pa.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I was right by.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But that's the kind of thing Like I think that
many parents listening right now will have an AHA moment
or this conversation will spark an AHA moment about something
that your kids maybe picked up and played with at
some point.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I yes, this conversation it's going to make people pay
more attention.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
That's what I'm really hoping.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
I mean, what I'm taking away from these is actually
thinking about what I'm purchasing. If I'm just buying something online,
not from like a actual retailler.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
So we Billy Frank did their first market stare before Christmas.
Was very exciting. No one was there, Oh my god.
Yeah at Wanner's Bay. So I'm officially in one as
Fay every three weeks. I'm a bit of a chatty Kathy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Well, there's nothing awkward about that.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
How many purchases have you made after having a really
long conversation with someone and just being like, no, I
have to purchase something like that's actually a good time.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah, this is true. Otherwise they just go and they're
gone and I'm like, come back, I haven't told you
about my first birthday party. There's an agreement that Amazon
has in Australia that the toys that come in are safe.
It's not necessarily that they are.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
It's a bit better though that maybe we're not making
awful decisions.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's still not on yeah no, and it's sort of
this agreement that they'll investigate it if it's not safe.
Choice are fighting to get TAMU to agree to it
and they're not.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
I just feel like we need to ban those sorts
of places from being able to sell in Australia.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Also, Temo should be banned when you are awake at
three I'm feeding a baby. Yeah, when it needs to
be banned, it just needs to be banned between the
hours of seven pm and seven am. I made many
a purchase. So the one that I am worried about
that is still being sold on the market is a
timber rattle or a beechwood rattle that has been recalled.
(40:28):
I wrote down the stats. It was wild like officially
recalled sixteen times since twenty twenty by over thirty different businesses.
So it's a really cute, aesthetically pleasing rattle that doesn't
meet the forty three millimeter requirement. And you'll find that
a lot of these companies that have had a recall
(40:51):
no longer exist, but then they can pop up in
it as a different company. One good thing is if
it was recalled and I used the manufacturer ABC, then
they would contact ABC and ask for all the Australian suppliers.
I think is how it works, so they can actually
work out who the manufacturers sent it to to do
(41:12):
the recall. The ones to be careful a if you're buying,
buy a small business, and I am a small business,
so I'm not telling you to not buy from small businesses,
Please come and buy my things. They are all safety testing.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Safety testing is what.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yes, yeah, I've actually put my safety testing certificates on
my website just so that people can see it, read it,
they can see what it's tested for and that it's
past safety testing. But a lot of people don't do that. Actually,
I don't think any other company that I know of
has posted the certifications. Sometimes they will have in like
a little bracket that it's been safety tested to the
(41:50):
Australian standard. Online business, small business amazing. I support them.
I am one just asked if they've had their products
safety tested if they act really dodgy and give you
a run around answer that probably don't have the safety.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Testing, And I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
The thing is is that when you're shopping from a
small business, you're generally paying a higher price because the
business has so many more costs involved, and the cost
of the units is so much more. Because you're paying
for that higher price, it's because you're dealing with a
smaller business. So you're well within your rights to ask
those questions. So no one should ever feel embarrassed or
like bad about asking those questions.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
So in the checklist I'm going to give you guys.
Number one is basically see if it is safety tested
to this standard. If it's not listed, then you just
approach the company or the manufacturer and they should be
able to give you a clear answer that yes, it
was tested underneath this standard. As of March, it is
a legal requirement for them to put on the warnings
and the age recommendation on all toys or the packaging
(42:56):
the toy is in, or any advertising. So if you
looked up something on Kmart, it will say recommended age
twelve months plus. That's from the safety certification, so you
know that it has been safety tested and isn't appropriate
for children under twelve months. I know we talked about
we make our own judgments with our children, but these
(43:16):
companies are doing the safety testing for a reason.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
So on my spop businesses, we'll circle back. If you're
going to the markets, if they are handmade at the markets,
just double check the length of the dummy clip or
just give it a little pull and see if it's
going to come Undone TAMU, obviously I would say, is
ninety eight percent unsafe.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, aware.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
And the other one that I found interesting. When I
was researching, it was second hand stores. So we did
a I call it my toy swap. So we've moved
out of Sydney. I had no support here and on
a Friday I used to walk Billy up to the
Salvos and all the girls would hold her. And that's
so I used to buy the toys. We'd play with them,
then we'd take it and get a new toy in
(44:02):
that time. They're secondhand toys. They don't have packaging, so
I would have never known or thought about, oh, this
is not appropriate for Billy to be playing with, like
unless it was obvious. Like again, if it's a marvel,
I'm going to go, don't play with that. But it's
just being aware if you're buying something secondhand or if
marketplace Facebook Marketplace, maybe google it first.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, that is such a good point because.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It's so such a good idea. Can I say about
the second that's so smart.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I buy a lot of stuff secondhand off Facebook Marketplace,
and I'll never up the recommended age. I don't like,
I'm thinking of that thing that like the.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Little to be fair, you buy things that you've already
researched and want for her because she's at that age
and then you look on Facebook marketplace.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
To be fair, I'm going to give you.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
But I have a specifically the age thing, and I
think that's something that I will now add.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
I don't look at the age thing like I feel
like maybe I definitely should have been looking at the
age thing and not been like they don't have the
fine Modus goods fund.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I have always looked at the age thing.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
But that said, I would use my judgment though then yes.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Okay, so these are the things that I would recommend.
The three things that I would urge parents to do.
I check the packaging or tag for the statement saying
that it meets safety stand Australian safety standards. If you're
not sure, asks the brand directly. Responsible businesses should be
able to provide proof with no dodgy or vague answers.
One thing that would be mandatory from March which have said,
(45:34):
is to display the age recommendation based on the safety
testing results. And then I've written down just for me
and key. Remember that age recommendations aren't about intelligence or ability.
They're based on They're based on potential hazards for that
age group. So it's always best to follow them for
safety's sake. I feel so silly saying that, because I like,
(45:56):
I feel like that's something I should have known.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
No, I feel like if generally we're very few fifty
and then we find that the audience is very fifty
to fifty, So I'm going to say that I'm not
just trying to make you both feel better. I reckon
fifty percent of people probably are the same.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well as you said, if it's like a marble or
there's something like really obvious about it being you go, oh, yeah, definitely.
But if I'm looking at something that's like three plus,
I'm like, she's two and a hulfe, She's right fine, Like,
but like, I think you are making those observations. But
if something that you're looking at doesn't look particularly, you know, alarming,
you are disregarding that really like the right, I.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Say, did you look at that rattle and go, oh,
that's too small?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
No, I thought the original rattle, yeah beautiful. I was like,
I didn't think it was too small. In fact, I
both Charlie and I sat down with Charlie to look
through everything. I would have given that to rue, and
I'm pretty sure we have a rattle that's that size
that she didn't have, which I need to check when
I get home.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
This is the point that speaking of this like this
is where I got stuck. Is lastly checked. The toy
doesn't have any loose parts or stitching, which I think
we do naturally, but all the parts exactly that we
come or small parts that fit inside the cylinder of
a fifty cent coin. But it's actually bigger than that.
A fifty cent coin is thirty two mil. And what
(47:14):
they want it bigger is that a forty two mel.
But it's not twenty cents anymore. At least think about
a fifty cent coin, except no one will know what
a fifty cent coin is because we all play with
our phones. Then it just says in the end, it's
just trust your instincts. If something feels off, ask questions
and make sure they're safe and tested. If they are unsure,
don't give it to your child. If you're unsure, don't
(47:35):
buy it. If the business can't give you a clear
and concise answer, I also wouldn't buy it. And I
say this like I am a small business, and I
don't want anyone else to come out and be like, oh,
she's just saying this to put down other small not
to put down other business. But it's not it's not.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
Make you're right here, anyone that says that you're not.
You've talked about also that a lot of big Australian
retailers are following the rules more so than small businesses.
You're absolutely not saying don't shop at other businesses, only
shop at me.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
You're saying, yes, I do happen.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
To have these products, but these are the things that
you need to look out for in general. Yes, and
also fuck these small businesses but aren't doing their due diligence.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yeah, I just ask That's all I can say, Like,
have a look if it doesn't have the age recommendation.
Asked because it is a legal requirement. They have to
have a recommended age for their toys and for the
children under thirty six months.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
That was really, really informative and insightful. I think both
of us are walking away from this convo feeling a
little bit more educated on what we should and shouldn't
be looking.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
I think that's just you and me.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Key, Yeah, Kelly's all I read, except for the batteries, which.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
We're all going to have to look up. This car
now batteries.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
They are new purchases, and I shall be putting some
celotape over that thing so it can't be opened.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Well, Billy's Elsa is not a new purchase, and it
is from a marketplace, so probably extra unsafe.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I'm doing the best weekend.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
I think that, No, it's not like this wild crazy story,
but it's actually so much more important than a wild
crazy story, like this.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Is the sort of thing so important.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
It's just so like we need to know these things
and we don't, So that's right. I think it's so good.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
If you're worried also with something or something, guys, please
report it to the agriple seat. You can report it
anonymously if you have pictures of it breaking, put pictures
in and they have to investigate that. Even if that
company isn't fined or the only ramification is that they
recall it, they're still recalling it and no other child
will have that toy. And I followed that ageable seat
(49:43):
on Instagram too, and they don't seem to be putting
up the well. I couldn't find pictures of product recalls
and it's such a weird. That's weird. As my advice
but is keep an eye or if you're bored, or
if you're doing a three a M feed, just keep
an eye on what has been recalled because you might
have been gifted that toy, so you're not following them
on Instagram or on social media so you won't see
(50:05):
their public recall.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
When it comes to your kids, like, we have to
protect them and parents are tired, they're new parents, they
might not know, like you're just trying to do the
best you can. We need to have these little kind
of checkpoints in place in a country that is so regulated.
It's insane to me that it's taken this long.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
I can't believe it's not illegal and hasn't been illegal
to sell toys that aren't safety tested.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
That blew my mind. It's like, okay, cool, so we're
just selling death traps. That's great, lovely, Well, thank you
so much for coming on.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Kay.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
We loved so yeah, and we're stoked that you are, yeah,
taking this up as your little passion project to bring
awareness to safety and regulations of toys in Australia for
our little kiddos to remain safe.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I really just want people to buy safe toys for
their children. Also, I sell bibs. Yes, so esthetics. We
have beautiful bibs and I've designed one for the Australian
climate that still covers your clothes.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Oh yeah, well, thank you Kate so much for that interview.
I feel a lot more prepared and informed and educated.
Kelly probably feels about the same.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
The information was very interesting.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Yeah, it won't make my purchasing decisions any different, but.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
But it might help a few of you out then. Also,
I think also when you're purchasing things for other people
as well.
Speaker 4 (51:33):
Especially I love buying like personalized things from Etsy or
from the markets.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It definitely has changed.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
The way I'm sure for sure that was pretty something
about its small businesses.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
But but yeah, we can still still put the ones
that are you buy closing stuff totally things that aren't Toky.
Thank you so much for joining us today. I remember
you can share the pod on your socials. This is
an important episode, so I encourage you to share far
and wide and let us know what you think and
what you want to hear. We would love your feedback.
As always, you can tag us at key Reese and
at Kelly Underscore mccaren and at e SSR dot pod
(52:08):
on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
This episode was produced by myself, Kelly McCarran key re Cells,
with audio production by Maddie Joanna See you next week.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Shitter is Bye Bye
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com