June 29, 2023 • 23 mins
Blake Wells is an attorney with The Small Business Law Firm. With a focus on employment law, he works with clients who have up to 50 employees. Yet law was not his first profession. ¿Qué era?
Every small business owner should get to know attorney Blake Wells. Working at The Small Business Law Firm, his focus is on employment law. And while he is a really nice guy, when a client has questions, he's very good at explaining complex matters in simple and easy-to-understand terms. Perhaps it's a by-product of his first career choice, high-school Spanish teacher. But law was in the back of his head, so he decided to spread his wings and go to law school.
Blake's a huge NBA fan, and he played basketball throughout middle and high school. But he's traded in the basketball for a golf ball. Easier on the knees. He's also a devoted family man. But you can listen here and find out more.
CLICK HERE for more information about Blake Wells.
CLICK HERE for more information about The Small Business Law Firm.
Listen to Blake's story here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro Speaker (00:00):
From Los Angeles, this is the Echelon Radio
(00:03):
Network.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:16):
This is Jerri Hemsworth with the Echelon radio
podcast. And today I'm withBlake wells. How are you?
Blake Wells (00:23):
I'm doing good.
Jerry, nice to be here. How areyou?
Jerri Hemsworth (00:25):
I'm doing okay for Friday.
Blake Wells (00:28):
Oh, yeah. It's Friday,
Jerri Hemsworth (00:30):
Remember? Oh, thank goodness. So you're with
The Small Business Law Firm inThousand Oaks?
Blake Wells (00:36):
Yes, we're The Small Business Law Firm, full
service law firm for all smallbusiness needs. I'm a business
attorney, a lot of my focus hasbeen in litigation. But at the
firm, we do a lot oftransactional work. So a lot of
our work is keeping people outof litigation. So I can see what
(01:00):
happens in the worst casescenario and through
transactional work, I canhopefully figure out how to keep
our clients outside of thatrealm of business disputes, but
disputes arise naturally
Jerri Hemsworth (01:13):
Of Course
Blake Wells (01:13):
and were there to handle both.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:15):
And you do formations as well, right?
Blake Wells (01:17):
Corporate formations, we kind of handle A
to Z, the corporate formation,contract formation, we do a lot
of employment law. That's wheremy expertise happens. So many
employment laws in California,and we do even estate planning.
So you know, people can keepwhat they earn.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:33):
So what a concept to be able to keep what
you earn, in this state. That'sa challenge.
Blake Wells (01:40):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. But there are a lot
of mechanisms to do that andavoid probate. And, you know, we
always encourage our clients toget that done early, you know,
hope for the best plan for theworst. That's kind of the motto.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:54):
Yeah. And you, you mentioned, employment law,
that that's one of yourspecialties, that that's where
you focus a lot.
Blake Wells (02:03):
Yeah, our function, we kind of function is inside
outside counsel. So a lot of ourclients, you know, will just
come to us with questions. Wekind of function as a HR
department, you know, can I firethis person? What do I do in
this situation? Can you draft usan employment policy handbook?
And you look over our employmentpolicy handbook, employment
(02:24):
agreements, all the like,there's so many, like, I just
read an article that the laborcode is something like 800 pages
long.
Jerri Hemsworth (02:34):
Are you kidding?
Blake Wells (02:35):
No, no. And in there, a lot of ways that
employees can wreak havoc on anemployer through representative
actions paga class actions, andthere are ways to mitigate those
(02:56):
risks. And there was actuallyjust a case that came out Viking
River that allowed that allowedarbitration agreements to be
enforceable against PAGA actionsand PAGA-
Jerri Hemsworth (03:09):
Oh interesting.
Blake Wells (03:10):
PAGA--Private Attorney General Act is a hot
topic in California right now,because it essentially allows an
employee who suffered oneviolation to sue on behalf of
all the other employees thatmight have suffered all- all
this slew of, of laborviolations that could ever
happen, no matter how innocentand these, it really can, can
(03:33):
hurt a company.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:36):
Especially a small one if if they're under 50
employees, or it could reallytake somebody down very, if they
don't have if they're notprepared.
Blake Wells (03:46):
Absolutely, absolutely. So for better or
worse, these laws exist. Yeah,it gives us a lot of business.
But, you know, we want to makesure that we're mitigating that
risk for our clients and in theunfortunate circumstance, that
they find themselves inlitigation, you know, we're
there to to work your waythrough it and get the best, you
(04:09):
know, most cost beneficialresult.
Jerri Hemsworth (04:11):
And in you just wrote an article for it. It's a
really good article for EchelonProfessional, our magazine. And-
about when you terminateemployees what you can and can't
do or things you should do. Andeven I learned a number of
(04:32):
things from that article, butobviously, you know, the
paycheck upon termination, andwithin the certain amount of
hours if somebody quits it wasthe the not it was the things
that you are best practices. Butit's not required by law that I
(04:56):
thought was very, veryinteresting. How often are you
consulting with your clients?
About— Did you do this? You haveto do this or do they? Do they?
Are they have you? Do they callyou before? They're, they need
to get rid of an employee?
Blake Wells (05:16):
Yes, usually this day and age, you know, can I
terminate this employee is, youknow, the number one question a
client will ask their lawyerbefore before going for it.
Jerri Hemsworth (05:25):
Even if they're at will, it does, you know,
Blake Wells (05:27):
yeah,
Jerri Hemsworth (05:28):
They'll still have these concerns,
Blake Wells (05:29):
And they are at will by presumption in
California. And most employershave this at will status. In the
article I talked about, youknow, because of this act, well,
presumption an employer, with orwithout notice, with or without
cause can terminate an employeefor any reason, okay, as long as
(05:49):
that reason is not unlawful. Andthat's where, you know, that
list gets long, what's notunlawful, okay? race, gender,
implied and contract. Impliedcontracts that imply a term or
imply a term that the employeewill only be terminated for good
cause. You know, where's theline and employment disputes are
(06:14):
tough, because it's often sofactual. And it's, it's so often
he said, she said, and it's sooften emotional, a disgruntled
employee, disgruntled employer,you know, an employee cannot be
the best employee. That doesn'tmean you can fire them. And it's
usually a result of mixedmotives. And there's a lot of
(06:37):
case law regarding this is whydid you fire this person? And,
you know, there might be a lotof different reasons, but the
employee is obviously going toargue, well, it was for this
unlawful reason I complainedabout this. And as a result, I
was fired. And that wasretaliation. Yeah. Well, how do
you how do you know? Well, youalso the employer says, Well,
you also didn't show up to workthat day. She also didn't show
(06:59):
up to work a year ago, and thenwhere it is, you know, and
that's where it getscontentious. And, and the issue
for employers is that, you know,if the if the employees claim is
worth $1, in the sense that, youknow, all they do is win, and
they win $1 Well, in a lot ofthe employment claims for, you
(07:21):
know, discrimination, unpaidwages, wage and hour claims. A
prevailing employee getsattorneys fees. So if you take a
case from, you know, complaintto trial, that's a lot of
attorneys fees. And so a verysmall claim can get expensive,
fast. And an employer oftentimesneeds to understand those
(07:43):
objective factors away from theemotional factors that obviously
are part and parcel of, of theseemployment disputes. So that's,
that's our job, I do a lot ofthat litigation. And, you know,
I feel like I'm good atpresenting the objective factors
(08:03):
to to the client and gettingthem out of the subjective
emotional space that we all findourselves in, especially when it
is litigation and depending onthe employment relationship. So
it's, it's definitelyinteresting work, sometimes
contentious. But, you know, it'sthere for a reason, not every
employer is perfect, just likenot every employee is perfect.
(08:28):
What I like about my job now isin the transactional aspect, I
feel like I can let employersknow how they can comply with
law did not get themselves introuble in this trouble in the
first place. And thereforeeveryone benefits the employees
benefiting from the law becauseit's being complied with and the
employer is benefiting from notgetting hit with some crazy
lawsuit for oftentimes innocentmistakes and so many times my,
(08:51):
my clients are just like, Whatdidn't I didn't know this
happened? No, the the employeewas asking to take their break
30 minutes later, so they cantake it with their friends and
and well, that's not the law.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:05):
Yeah.
Blake Wells (09:05):
So yeah. Anyway,
Jerri Hemsworth (09:07):
Now, the law was not your first profession
out of school, was it?
Blake Wells (09:12):
No, no, I actually I graduated from UCLA and I kind
of fell into teaching. I taughtat my old high school I went to
Loyola High School in LosAngeles. Go Cubs. Brian knew the
Triple L I was impressed. Yeah.
I want to I won't do that here.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:31):
But you what did you teach?
Blake Wells (09:33):
I taught Spanish and interesting so my my junior
year at UCLA, I study abroad inMadrid and I studied the whole
year...
Jerri Hemsworth (09:42):
The whole year?
Blake Wells (09:43):
The whole year, because I wanted to learn
Spanish I had a lot of bookknowledge but didn't have the
speaking knowledge in the earand I was there. I was there you
know, nine months, the academicyear and I met a lot of people
and had a lot of fun and learn alot of Spanish.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:58):
Gonna say how much did your Spanish improve?
Blake Wells (10:01):
It improved a lot.
Actually, I was I get like Isaid, I was like book,
knowledgeable, like I can readthe, I knew a lot of words. But
you can know a lot of words andthen hearing someone speak it
and you know, really quickly,you you don't know. And it's
just something about beingexposed. So something I made
sure I did was live in anapartment with all Spanish
speakers. And it was it was kindof a crazy situation. There were
(10:24):
like nine other internationalstudents. Some of them were
Spanish, some of them wereItalian, German, Mexican. So,
you know, the Mexican studentswould keep our Spanish on point.
And then the rest of us werekind of learning as we as we
went along. And you know, inSpain, you're having dinner at
10. So you're having dinner at10. You know, going out at
midnight
Jerri Hemsworth (10:44):
Oh thats a complete lifestyle change.
Blake Wells (10:45):
Yeah, no, it was it was fun. And I'd never been out
of the United States. So it wasa huge learning experience for
me,
Jerri Hemsworth (10:52):
How long did it take you to adjust?
Blake Wells (10:53):
I don't know, I'm pretty flexible. So I was, you
know, and I'm, uh, I considermyself a friendly person. So I
was able to, to adjust quickly.
Yeah, but there are just, youknow, it's, it's tough. You
always have your parents to kindof rely on or send you things
and you know, I have to go tothe store and get food and do
get some- Do your own laundry?
(11:16):
In Spanish! I had to get schoolsupplies. And it's like you
asked for- Culture is sointeresting. So you know, I
needed a three ring binder. I goto the store, I need a three
ring binder. And I say it inSpanish. Un quaderno de tres
anillos. Because that's what itsounds like, to me. She looks at
me like I'm crazy.
Jerri Hemsworth (11:37):
Uh-oh! What did you really ask?
Blake Wells (11:41):
I have those stories, but I won't share them
here. But you know, she looks atme like I'm crazy. Un quaderno
tres anillos para poner papel.
And she's like, doesn'tunderstand what I'm saying. And
she's like, eventually, oh, Ionly have this four ring binder.
Because they have like adifferent, you know, style of
it. And so it was just, I don'tknow, that was just a
(12:03):
interesting, like, Introductionto cultures that you can, like,
be on the same page, but not beon the same page
Jerri Hemsworth (12:10):
Its not just about language.
Blake Wells (12:11):
Exactly, exactly.
And there's, you know, tons ofthose stories. And yes, some of
them might be for Echelon afterdark. But
Jerri Hemsworth (12:19):
That's a different podcast. So you were
you were a high school teacherback at your old alma- alma
mater, what made you switch tolaw.
Blake Wells (12:35):
So, my, my dad's a lawyer, and so it was always
something in the back of myhead, I wasn't sure about it,
you know, it's a, it's a risk.
And if you're not, you know,gung ho about it, you know, and
I wasn't going home at thatpoint. So I kind of fell into
teaching and a few years intoteaching, I love teaching really
fun. Really nice to work withkids. And I was coaching at
(12:58):
certain points that I kind ofcame to a crossroads was like,
okay, you know, I'm good atthis, I like it, but I feel like
I'm teaching my students to dothings that maybe I can be
doing. And, and I have the skillset that I feel like I can be
using to do the things I'mtelling my my students to do.
(13:19):
And so eventually, I said, youknow, it's time for me to spread
my wings get out of where I wentto high school and, and kind of
challenge myself to, to use myskill set to, and I know, it's a
cliche, but to help people andultimately, as a, as a lawyer,
you really are a problem solverin someone's kind of first line
of defense, into, you know, whatneeds to what they need to do.
(13:42):
And so I said, Okay, I'll takethe LSAT and, and get to work
and I had an eye towardscriminal defense, because that's
what my, my dad did. But once Istarted, you know, actually
studying, I really liked thekind of variety and I guess,
what's the word? The I liked thecivil litigation, because there
(14:10):
was so much to know and learnand in different aspects of
society that come into play, youknow, you're dealing with
government laws and economicpolicies and all these different
incentive systems for why youhave these these rules. torts I
loved and, and yeah, so I kindof went into that realm and that
(14:36):
realm is civil litigation, and,and I did some personal injury.
And you know, that that'sbasically I don't do personal
injury now, but I do any sort ofdispute, you know, between two
private parties, and all therules and laws and case law that
that goes into it. Very cool.
Jerri Hemsworth (14:58):
Very cool.
We're switching gears a littlebit. You- are- you love
basketball? Baseball and sports?
Blake Wells (15:10):
Oh yeah. I'm a huge. I'm a huge NBA fan. I
played basketball in highschool. I wish I had a
basketball buddy. I didn't. Iwas saying earlier, when I went
to high school, there's 1200boys. And I was, you know,
pretty good basketball playerand middle school, but then you
(15:32):
get to high school and you'relike, oh, there are bigger and
faster.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:37):
Something's different here.
Blake Wells (15:40):
I need to hit the books.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:43):
But you're in you. You've transitioned to
golf. You said,
Blake Wells (15:47):
Oh, yeah. So I mean, I've always played sports
like basketball, soccer. And atone point, I kind of hurt my
knee, or had tendinitis orsomething. And so I hit the golf
course. And I got the bug. Andall you need is one shot. Yeah.
And you're there. And it's ait's a great sport. I- you can
play your whole life. Andthere's always something to
(16:08):
improve on. Every putt isdifferent. And it's a very like
meditative experience whileyou're on the course even though
sometimes you feel like you'rehaving a stroke. But
Jerri Hemsworth (16:18):
sometimes you look like you're having a
stroke.
Blake Wells (16:20):
Oh, yeah. Robin Williams had a joke. Maybe
that's why they call it astroke.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:26):
Yeah. And you have a little girl, she's a year
and a half.
Blake Wells (16:32):
Yes.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:32):
Do you think you'll take her out when she's
five or six and teach her aboutgolf?
Blake Wells (16:37):
Earlier than five, five and six. I'm gonna I'm
gonna take her out. I would lovefor her to play golf.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:42):
Start with mini golf.
Blake Wells (16:44):
Yeah, no, you have to make it fun. And it's so
interesting. Sometimes you'llsee younger kids swings. And
you're like, oh my gosh, that'sbeautiful swing. Yeah, just
their bodies are meant for it.
And I think the best golfersit's often a matter of
flexibility. And so when you'reyoung, and you can get it and
when you see kind of olderpeople or people who don't have
a good swing, and they can bethe most athletic person, but
(17:06):
their body is just not used to.
So yeah, I think Tiger wasplaying golf at two so Lucy's,
we'll get her going. She got afew months months.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:17):
C'mon, Lucy, Papa needs a new house. But
actually, you guys just got anew house. Right?
Blake Wells (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, we just moved. Unfortunately, our my
father in law passed. And sowe've inherited that house or,
and kind of taking care of itand figuring out what you know,
but we are homeowners, you know,we actually I watched a YouTube
(17:47):
video and unclog the garbagedisposal. Oh, no, I am not a
handyman, but I was very proudof myself to do that. But those
are the kinds of things thatthat I'm signing up for.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:58):
It never ends trust me when I know, it just
never ends. And then lastly, youdo art, right? Art business of
some sort.
Blake Wells (18:11):
So this was kind of a side project passion project
of mine, and I don't do art, butit's, it's a project that, you
know, I thought of when I was inlaw school. And basically, while
I was reading these cases, andif you ever seen like a law
school movie, you know, it iskind of very similar that, you
(18:33):
know, a to you read these cases.
And these are often like veryold cases, and very famous
cases, you know, a lot of peoplein law school will know about
these cases, but the, theteacher will call on you and ask
you for the facts. And, youknow, these cases, you know,
really well and they kind of setthe basis of what the law has
evolved into, and why we havethese rules, and they give you
(18:54):
the lingo and stuff that youneed to eventually be a lawyer
and apply it outside of school.
But anyway, you read these caseswith these, you know, crazy
factual situations, a lot ofthem are, like big accidents, or
interesting scenarios andinteractions between people and
physical forces and, and, youknow, kind of the teacher in me,
(19:16):
I was like, Why aren't therepictures of these cases? Or, you
know, images, you know, for avisual learner, this would be
insane because of law professorsgonna ask you, you know, what's
that?
Jerri Hemsworth (19:27):
The would be Awesome.
Blake Wells (19:28):
Exactly. And then, for property cases, it's like,
you know, you need to know wherethis is situated in regards to
that. Also, during law schooland working at law firms, I saw
art everywhere. And I thinklawyers, maybe, maybe to kind of
rebut the stereotype thatthey're, you know, Philistines
(19:49):
and uncultured.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:51):
There's no art side here.
Blake Wells (19:53):
Exactly. Well, there's art everywhere. Nice.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:55):
Exactly.
Blake Wells (19:56):
These could be you know, beautiful pieces of art as
well.
So you Exactly. SoI thought of some of the more
Jerri Hemsworth (19:59):
You can be creative So you're,
you're a business owner.
like most famous cases, orthings that lend themselves most
to kind of imagery. And I, youknow, I'm not an artist, so I,
you know, I was like, you know,I'm going to commission artists
to, to paint some of thesescenes make beautiful works of
art. And, and, you know,hopefully lawyers might be
(20:20):
interested in want to put thesein their offices, you know,
these are rules of law thatevery lawyer has read about
knows. And if I talk to anattorney, I say, Oh, the fox
case, Post V. Pierson, they'llknow what I mean. Oh, Paul's
graph, you know, they'll knowwhat I mean. So those are some
of the first cases. So Term ofArt Collective was was born.
(20:42):
That's what it's called a termof art, a term of art is like a
specialized term that that allmy law professors use, they say,
all this, this word malice is aterm of art. And I didn't know,
I didn't know what it was whatthey meant at the time. But
yeah, now I do. And it's thename of the company Term of Art.
And so we sell prints onlinefrom some of these artists all
(21:05):
over the globe. And it's, it'sbeen very interesting
experience, you know, kind ofrunning your business at the
same time of that I'm, you know,being an attorney and a dad. And
you know.
Blake Wells (21:19):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:20):
At the Same time consulting and counseling
business owners, that's got tobe a very, very full circle for
you.
Blake Wells (21:29):
Absolutely. In in any business owner is always
learning. Any attorney is lyingto you, if they're say, they're
not always learning.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:33):
Right.
Blake Wells (21:34):
And so, it is a good way to apply what I'm
learning in real time. So yeah,it's been a, it's been a great
experience. And, and some of theart is really good. You know, a
lot of these cases we'll have alot of these cases are so
determined by the facts. Andthat was kind of the the spark
(21:57):
is like, okay, I can put theselittle facts these Easter eggs
inside the and so I've been kindof working as creative director
with the artists. You know, youcan do what you want, but please
put it this in
Jerri Hemsworth (22:08):
We need A, B, C, and D. Yup.
Blake Wells (22:10):
And it needs to be true to the case. And sometimes
you can get, you know, a littlemore- you can get a little more
philosophical or metaphoricalabout maybe what the rule of law
is. And some of the artists youknow, really take to it are
like, Oh, this is very cool. No,and they'll come up with some,
some very cool imagery.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:29):
Very fun.
Blake Wells (22:30):
So yeah, it's fun.
It's cool. I like it. I'mcontinuing we're making more art
as it as it comes out. And yeah,Term of Art Collective
termofartco.com you can check itout.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:42):
Definitely going to check that out because
I love creative and when you canmix professional and creative
worlds, like you're doing I'mit's fascinating, and I think it
feeds a lot for you. Thank youso much for being with me today.
Blake Wells (22:58):
Of course, this was really nice. It was like a real
podcast, I got to plug my stuffat the end
Jerri Hemsworth (23:04):
Its true!
Intro Speaker (23:12):
Presented by Echelon Business Development.
More than just networking. Waymore!
From Los Angeles, this is the Echelon Radio
(00:03):
Network.
Jerri Hemsworth (00:16):
This is Jerri Hemsworth with the Echelon radio
podcast. And today I'm withBlake wells. How are you?
Blake Wells (00:23):
I'm doing good.
Jerry, nice to be here. How areyou?
Jerri Hemsworth (00:25):
I'm doing okay for Friday.
Blake Wells (00:28):
Oh, yeah. It's Friday,
Jerri Hemsworth (00:30):
Remember? Oh, thank goodness. So you're with
The Small Business Law Firm inThousand Oaks?
Blake Wells (00:36):
Yes, we're The Small Business Law Firm, full
service law firm for all smallbusiness needs. I'm a business
attorney, a lot of my focus hasbeen in litigation. But at the
firm, we do a lot oftransactional work. So a lot of
our work is keeping people outof litigation. So I can see what
(01:00):
happens in the worst casescenario and through
transactional work, I canhopefully figure out how to keep
our clients outside of thatrealm of business disputes, but
disputes arise naturally
Jerri Hemsworth (01:13):
Of Course
Blake Wells (01:13):
and were there to handle both.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:15):
And you do formations as well, right?
Blake Wells (01:17):
Corporate formations, we kind of handle A
to Z, the corporate formation,contract formation, we do a lot
of employment law. That's wheremy expertise happens. So many
employment laws in California,and we do even estate planning.
So you know, people can keepwhat they earn.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:33):
So what a concept to be able to keep what
you earn, in this state. That'sa challenge.
Blake Wells (01:40):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. But there are a lot
of mechanisms to do that andavoid probate. And, you know, we
always encourage our clients toget that done early, you know,
hope for the best plan for theworst. That's kind of the motto.
Jerri Hemsworth (01:54):
Yeah. And you, you mentioned, employment law,
that that's one of yourspecialties, that that's where
you focus a lot.
Blake Wells (02:03):
Yeah, our function, we kind of function is inside
outside counsel. So a lot of ourclients, you know, will just
come to us with questions. Wekind of function as a HR
department, you know, can I firethis person? What do I do in
this situation? Can you draft usan employment policy handbook?
And you look over our employmentpolicy handbook, employment
(02:24):
agreements, all the like,there's so many, like, I just
read an article that the laborcode is something like 800 pages
long.
Jerri Hemsworth (02:34):
Are you kidding?
Blake Wells (02:35):
No, no. And in there, a lot of ways that
employees can wreak havoc on anemployer through representative
actions paga class actions, andthere are ways to mitigate those
(02:56):
risks. And there was actuallyjust a case that came out Viking
River that allowed that allowedarbitration agreements to be
enforceable against PAGA actionsand PAGA-
Jerri Hemsworth (03:09):
Oh interesting.
Blake Wells (03:10):
PAGA--Private Attorney General Act is a hot
topic in California right now,because it essentially allows an
employee who suffered oneviolation to sue on behalf of
all the other employees thatmight have suffered all- all
this slew of, of laborviolations that could ever
happen, no matter how innocentand these, it really can, can
(03:33):
hurt a company.
Jerri Hemsworth (03:36):
Especially a small one if if they're under 50
employees, or it could reallytake somebody down very, if they
don't have if they're notprepared.
Blake Wells (03:46):
Absolutely, absolutely. So for better or
worse, these laws exist. Yeah,it gives us a lot of business.
But, you know, we want to makesure that we're mitigating that
risk for our clients and in theunfortunate circumstance, that
they find themselves inlitigation, you know, we're
there to to work your waythrough it and get the best, you
(04:09):
know, most cost beneficialresult.
Jerri Hemsworth (04:11):
And in you just wrote an article for it. It's a
really good article for EchelonProfessional, our magazine. And-
about when you terminateemployees what you can and can't
do or things you should do. Andeven I learned a number of
(04:32):
things from that article, butobviously, you know, the
paycheck upon termination, andwithin the certain amount of
hours if somebody quits it wasthe the not it was the things
that you are best practices. Butit's not required by law that I
(04:56):
thought was very, veryinteresting. How often are you
consulting with your clients?
About— Did you do this? You haveto do this or do they? Do they?
Are they have you? Do they callyou before? They're, they need
to get rid of an employee?
Blake Wells (05:16):
Yes, usually this day and age, you know, can I
terminate this employee is, youknow, the number one question a
client will ask their lawyerbefore before going for it.
Jerri Hemsworth (05:25):
Even if they're at will, it does, you know,
Blake Wells (05:27):
yeah,
Jerri Hemsworth (05:28):
They'll still have these concerns,
Blake Wells (05:29):
And they are at will by presumption in
California. And most employershave this at will status. In the
article I talked about, youknow, because of this act, well,
presumption an employer, with orwithout notice, with or without
cause can terminate an employeefor any reason, okay, as long as
(05:49):
that reason is not unlawful. Andthat's where, you know, that
list gets long, what's notunlawful, okay? race, gender,
implied and contract. Impliedcontracts that imply a term or
imply a term that the employeewill only be terminated for good
cause. You know, where's theline and employment disputes are
(06:14):
tough, because it's often sofactual. And it's, it's so often
he said, she said, and it's sooften emotional, a disgruntled
employee, disgruntled employer,you know, an employee cannot be
the best employee. That doesn'tmean you can fire them. And it's
usually a result of mixedmotives. And there's a lot of
(06:37):
case law regarding this is whydid you fire this person? And,
you know, there might be a lotof different reasons, but the
employee is obviously going toargue, well, it was for this
unlawful reason I complainedabout this. And as a result, I
was fired. And that wasretaliation. Yeah. Well, how do
you how do you know? Well, youalso the employer says, Well,
you also didn't show up to workthat day. She also didn't show
(06:59):
up to work a year ago, and thenwhere it is, you know, and
that's where it getscontentious. And, and the issue
for employers is that, you know,if the if the employees claim is
worth $1, in the sense that, youknow, all they do is win, and
they win $1 Well, in a lot ofthe employment claims for, you
(07:21):
know, discrimination, unpaidwages, wage and hour claims. A
prevailing employee getsattorneys fees. So if you take a
case from, you know, complaintto trial, that's a lot of
attorneys fees. And so a verysmall claim can get expensive,
fast. And an employer oftentimesneeds to understand those
(07:43):
objective factors away from theemotional factors that obviously
are part and parcel of, of theseemployment disputes. So that's,
that's our job, I do a lot ofthat litigation. And, you know,
I feel like I'm good atpresenting the objective factors
(08:03):
to to the client and gettingthem out of the subjective
emotional space that we all findourselves in, especially when it
is litigation and depending onthe employment relationship. So
it's, it's definitelyinteresting work, sometimes
contentious. But, you know, it'sthere for a reason, not every
employer is perfect, just likenot every employee is perfect.
(08:28):
What I like about my job now isin the transactional aspect, I
feel like I can let employersknow how they can comply with
law did not get themselves introuble in this trouble in the
first place. And thereforeeveryone benefits the employees
benefiting from the law becauseit's being complied with and the
employer is benefiting from notgetting hit with some crazy
lawsuit for oftentimes innocentmistakes and so many times my,
(08:51):
my clients are just like, Whatdidn't I didn't know this
happened? No, the the employeewas asking to take their break
30 minutes later, so they cantake it with their friends and
and well, that's not the law.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:05):
Yeah.
Blake Wells (09:05):
So yeah. Anyway,
Jerri Hemsworth (09:07):
Now, the law was not your first profession
out of school, was it?
Blake Wells (09:12):
No, no, I actually I graduated from UCLA and I kind
of fell into teaching. I taughtat my old high school I went to
Loyola High School in LosAngeles. Go Cubs. Brian knew the
Triple L I was impressed. Yeah.
I want to I won't do that here.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:31):
But you what did you teach?
Blake Wells (09:33):
I taught Spanish and interesting so my my junior
year at UCLA, I study abroad inMadrid and I studied the whole
year...
Jerri Hemsworth (09:42):
The whole year?
Blake Wells (09:43):
The whole year, because I wanted to learn
Spanish I had a lot of bookknowledge but didn't have the
speaking knowledge in the earand I was there. I was there you
know, nine months, the academicyear and I met a lot of people
and had a lot of fun and learn alot of Spanish.
Jerri Hemsworth (09:58):
Gonna say how much did your Spanish improve?
Blake Wells (10:01):
It improved a lot.
Actually, I was I get like Isaid, I was like book,
knowledgeable, like I can readthe, I knew a lot of words. But
you can know a lot of words andthen hearing someone speak it
and you know, really quickly,you you don't know. And it's
just something about beingexposed. So something I made
sure I did was live in anapartment with all Spanish
speakers. And it was it was kindof a crazy situation. There were
(10:24):
like nine other internationalstudents. Some of them were
Spanish, some of them wereItalian, German, Mexican. So,
you know, the Mexican studentswould keep our Spanish on point.
And then the rest of us werekind of learning as we as we
went along. And you know, inSpain, you're having dinner at
10. So you're having dinner at10. You know, going out at
midnight
Jerri Hemsworth (10:44):
Oh thats a complete lifestyle change.
Blake Wells (10:45):
Yeah, no, it was it was fun. And I'd never been out
of the United States. So it wasa huge learning experience for
me,
Jerri Hemsworth (10:52):
How long did it take you to adjust?
Blake Wells (10:53):
I don't know, I'm pretty flexible. So I was, you
know, and I'm, uh, I considermyself a friendly person. So I
was able to, to adjust quickly.
Yeah, but there are just, youknow, it's, it's tough. You
always have your parents to kindof rely on or send you things
and you know, I have to go tothe store and get food and do
get some- Do your own laundry?
(11:16):
In Spanish! I had to get schoolsupplies. And it's like you
asked for- Culture is sointeresting. So you know, I
needed a three ring binder. I goto the store, I need a three
ring binder. And I say it inSpanish. Un quaderno de tres
anillos. Because that's what itsounds like, to me. She looks at
me like I'm crazy.
Jerri Hemsworth (11:37):
Uh-oh! What did you really ask?
Blake Wells (11:41):
I have those stories, but I won't share them
here. But you know, she looks atme like I'm crazy. Un quaderno
tres anillos para poner papel.
And she's like, doesn'tunderstand what I'm saying. And
she's like, eventually, oh, Ionly have this four ring binder.
Because they have like adifferent, you know, style of
it. And so it was just, I don'tknow, that was just a
(12:03):
interesting, like, Introductionto cultures that you can, like,
be on the same page, but not beon the same page
Jerri Hemsworth (12:10):
Its not just about language.
Blake Wells (12:11):
Exactly, exactly.
And there's, you know, tons ofthose stories. And yes, some of
them might be for Echelon afterdark. But
Jerri Hemsworth (12:19):
That's a different podcast. So you were
you were a high school teacherback at your old alma- alma
mater, what made you switch tolaw.
Blake Wells (12:35):
So, my, my dad's a lawyer, and so it was always
something in the back of myhead, I wasn't sure about it,
you know, it's a, it's a risk.
And if you're not, you know,gung ho about it, you know, and
I wasn't going home at thatpoint. So I kind of fell into
teaching and a few years intoteaching, I love teaching really
fun. Really nice to work withkids. And I was coaching at
(12:58):
certain points that I kind ofcame to a crossroads was like,
okay, you know, I'm good atthis, I like it, but I feel like
I'm teaching my students to dothings that maybe I can be
doing. And, and I have the skillset that I feel like I can be
using to do the things I'mtelling my my students to do.
(13:19):
And so eventually, I said, youknow, it's time for me to spread
my wings get out of where I wentto high school and, and kind of
challenge myself to, to use myskill set to, and I know, it's a
cliche, but to help people andultimately, as a, as a lawyer,
you really are a problem solverin someone's kind of first line
of defense, into, you know, whatneeds to what they need to do.
(13:42):
And so I said, Okay, I'll takethe LSAT and, and get to work
and I had an eye towardscriminal defense, because that's
what my, my dad did. But once Istarted, you know, actually
studying, I really liked thekind of variety and I guess,
what's the word? The I liked thecivil litigation, because there
(14:10):
was so much to know and learnand in different aspects of
society that come into play, youknow, you're dealing with
government laws and economicpolicies and all these different
incentive systems for why youhave these these rules. torts I
loved and, and yeah, so I kindof went into that realm and that
(14:36):
realm is civil litigation, and,and I did some personal injury.
And you know, that that'sbasically I don't do personal
injury now, but I do any sort ofdispute, you know, between two
private parties, and all therules and laws and case law that
that goes into it. Very cool.
Jerri Hemsworth (14:58):
Very cool.
We're switching gears a littlebit. You- are- you love
basketball? Baseball and sports?
Blake Wells (15:10):
Oh yeah. I'm a huge. I'm a huge NBA fan. I
played basketball in highschool. I wish I had a
basketball buddy. I didn't. Iwas saying earlier, when I went
to high school, there's 1200boys. And I was, you know,
pretty good basketball playerand middle school, but then you
(15:32):
get to high school and you'relike, oh, there are bigger and
faster.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:37):
Something's different here.
Blake Wells (15:40):
I need to hit the books.
Jerri Hemsworth (15:43):
But you're in you. You've transitioned to
golf. You said,
Blake Wells (15:47):
Oh, yeah. So I mean, I've always played sports
like basketball, soccer. And atone point, I kind of hurt my
knee, or had tendinitis orsomething. And so I hit the golf
course. And I got the bug. Andall you need is one shot. Yeah.
And you're there. And it's ait's a great sport. I- you can
play your whole life. Andthere's always something to
(16:08):
improve on. Every putt isdifferent. And it's a very like
meditative experience whileyou're on the course even though
sometimes you feel like you'rehaving a stroke. But
Jerri Hemsworth (16:18):
sometimes you look like you're having a
stroke.
Blake Wells (16:20):
Oh, yeah. Robin Williams had a joke. Maybe
that's why they call it astroke.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:26):
Yeah. And you have a little girl, she's a year
and a half.
Blake Wells (16:32):
Yes.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:32):
Do you think you'll take her out when she's
five or six and teach her aboutgolf?
Blake Wells (16:37):
Earlier than five, five and six. I'm gonna I'm
gonna take her out. I would lovefor her to play golf.
Jerri Hemsworth (16:42):
Start with mini golf.
Blake Wells (16:44):
Yeah, no, you have to make it fun. And it's so
interesting. Sometimes you'llsee younger kids swings. And
you're like, oh my gosh, that'sbeautiful swing. Yeah, just
their bodies are meant for it.
And I think the best golfersit's often a matter of
flexibility. And so when you'reyoung, and you can get it and
when you see kind of olderpeople or people who don't have
a good swing, and they can bethe most athletic person, but
(17:06):
their body is just not used to.
So yeah, I think Tiger wasplaying golf at two so Lucy's,
we'll get her going. She got afew months months.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:17):
C'mon, Lucy, Papa needs a new house. But
actually, you guys just got anew house. Right?
Blake Wells (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, we just moved. Unfortunately, our my
father in law passed. And sowe've inherited that house or,
and kind of taking care of itand figuring out what you know,
but we are homeowners, you know,we actually I watched a YouTube
(17:47):
video and unclog the garbagedisposal. Oh, no, I am not a
handyman, but I was very proudof myself to do that. But those
are the kinds of things thatthat I'm signing up for.
Jerri Hemsworth (17:58):
It never ends trust me when I know, it just
never ends. And then lastly, youdo art, right? Art business of
some sort.
Blake Wells (18:11):
So this was kind of a side project passion project
of mine, and I don't do art, butit's, it's a project that, you
know, I thought of when I was inlaw school. And basically, while
I was reading these cases, andif you ever seen like a law
school movie, you know, it iskind of very similar that, you
(18:33):
know, a to you read these cases.
And these are often like veryold cases, and very famous
cases, you know, a lot of peoplein law school will know about
these cases, but the, theteacher will call on you and ask
you for the facts. And, youknow, these cases, you know,
really well and they kind of setthe basis of what the law has
evolved into, and why we havethese rules, and they give you
(18:54):
the lingo and stuff that youneed to eventually be a lawyer
and apply it outside of school.
But anyway, you read these caseswith these, you know, crazy
factual situations, a lot ofthem are, like big accidents, or
interesting scenarios andinteractions between people and
physical forces and, and, youknow, kind of the teacher in me,
(19:16):
I was like, Why aren't therepictures of these cases? Or, you
know, images, you know, for avisual learner, this would be
insane because of law professorsgonna ask you, you know, what's
that?
Jerri Hemsworth (19:27):
The would be Awesome.
Blake Wells (19:28):
Exactly. And then, for property cases, it's like,
you know, you need to know wherethis is situated in regards to
that. Also, during law schooland working at law firms, I saw
art everywhere. And I thinklawyers, maybe, maybe to kind of
rebut the stereotype thatthey're, you know, Philistines
(19:49):
and uncultured.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:51):
There's no art side here.
Blake Wells (19:53):
Exactly. Well, there's art everywhere. Nice.
Jerri Hemsworth (19:55):
Exactly.
Blake Wells (19:56):
These could be you know, beautiful pieces of art as
well.
So you Exactly. SoI thought of some of the more
Jerri Hemsworth (19:59):
You can be creative So you're,
you're a business owner.
like most famous cases, orthings that lend themselves most
to kind of imagery. And I, youknow, I'm not an artist, so I,
you know, I was like, you know,I'm going to commission artists
to, to paint some of thesescenes make beautiful works of
art. And, and, you know,hopefully lawyers might be
(20:20):
interested in want to put thesein their offices, you know,
these are rules of law thatevery lawyer has read about
knows. And if I talk to anattorney, I say, Oh, the fox
case, Post V. Pierson, they'llknow what I mean. Oh, Paul's
graph, you know, they'll knowwhat I mean. So those are some
of the first cases. So Term ofArt Collective was was born.
(20:42):
That's what it's called a termof art, a term of art is like a
specialized term that that allmy law professors use, they say,
all this, this word malice is aterm of art. And I didn't know,
I didn't know what it was whatthey meant at the time. But
yeah, now I do. And it's thename of the company Term of Art.
And so we sell prints onlinefrom some of these artists all
(21:05):
over the globe. And it's, it'sbeen very interesting
experience, you know, kind ofrunning your business at the
same time of that I'm, you know,being an attorney and a dad. And
you know.
Blake Wells (21:19):
Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:20):
At the Same time consulting and counseling
business owners, that's got tobe a very, very full circle for
you.
Blake Wells (21:29):
Absolutely. In in any business owner is always
learning. Any attorney is lyingto you, if they're say, they're
not always learning.
Jerri Hemsworth (21:33):
Right.
Blake Wells (21:34):
And so, it is a good way to apply what I'm
learning in real time. So yeah,it's been a, it's been a great
experience. And, and some of theart is really good. You know, a
lot of these cases we'll have alot of these cases are so
determined by the facts. Andthat was kind of the the spark
(21:57):
is like, okay, I can put theselittle facts these Easter eggs
inside the and so I've been kindof working as creative director
with the artists. You know, youcan do what you want, but please
put it this in
Jerri Hemsworth (22:08):
We need A, B, C, and D. Yup.
Blake Wells (22:10):
And it needs to be true to the case. And sometimes
you can get, you know, a littlemore- you can get a little more
philosophical or metaphoricalabout maybe what the rule of law
is. And some of the artists youknow, really take to it are
like, Oh, this is very cool. No,and they'll come up with some,
some very cool imagery.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:29):
Very fun.
Blake Wells (22:30):
So yeah, it's fun.
It's cool. I like it. I'mcontinuing we're making more art
as it as it comes out. And yeah,Term of Art Collective
termofartco.com you can check itout.
Jerri Hemsworth (22:42):
Definitely going to check that out because
I love creative and when you canmix professional and creative
worlds, like you're doing I'mit's fascinating, and I think it
feeds a lot for you. Thank youso much for being with me today.
Blake Wells (22:58):
Of course, this was really nice. It was like a real
podcast, I got to plug my stuffat the end
Jerri Hemsworth (23:04):
Its true!
Intro Speaker (23:12):
Presented by Echelon Business Development.
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