June 10, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, we head to the Rid-All Farm to speak with Keymah Durden, a co-founder of Rid-All Green Partnership. What was once a notorious dumping ground in Cleveland's "Forgotten Triangle", the farm is now one of the largest minority-owned urban farms and a nationally recognized model for urban agriculture, environmental stewardship, and resilience. In this episode, Keymah talks about how Rid-All is growing communities and changing Lives.
Rid-All was originally a pest control company started by farm co-founder Damien Forsche. As he worked in public housing projects, Damien observed some things, including what people were eating - unhealthy, processed food due to a lack of access to fresh food and nutrition education. This sparked a dream of bringing a farm to Cleveland's Kinsman neighborhood that would fill that void. That was in 2010. That dream is now a 26-acre campus in Cleveland's Urban Agriculture Innovation Zone.
The name Rid-All stands for Redeem, Integrity, and Determination for All Mankind. Tragically, Damien passed away in 2018, but his partners continue to expand the Rid-All mission to honor his legacy and train the next generation of farmers. Carrying on the farming traditions of their African ancestors is central to Rid-All's mission. And that is what makes it truly special. They are not just growing food; they are rebuilding community connections, honoring cultural traditions, and creating pathways to health, prosperity, and circularity.
Join us for a meaningful conversation about farming, soil, raising fish, sequestering carbon, celebration, music, learning, health, and the intersection of all these topics. Then go to the farm for Taco Tuesday or Fish Friday in the Rid-All Community Kitchen to experience this special place for yourself.
Guest:
Keymah Durden, Farmer and Co-Founder of Rid-All Green Partnership
Learn More:
Meet the Rid-All Partners
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Contact us:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Diane Bickett (00:04):
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, Greg and I areexcited to be coming to you from
(00:25):
the Ridolph Urban Farm thismorning.
Perhaps you've heard of it.
Located on about 26 acres offKinsman Avenue, between East
79th Street and East 84th Street, this farm is a center of urban
agriculture, environmentalstewardship and resilience in a
Cleveland neighborhood oncecalled the Forgotten Triangle.
Well, this part of Cleveland isforgotten no more.
(00:52):
A labor of love has transformedthis land into an urban oasis
of health and opportunity,thanks to our guest today,
Keymah Durden and his Blackbrothers, the co-founders of Rid
All Green Partnership.
Thank you for joining us as wehear about all the various ways
that Rid- All is growingcommunities and changing lives.
Welcome Keymah.
Keymah Durden (01:09):
Welcome, thank you.
Thank you for having me, andgood morning.
Diane Bickett (01:12):
This is our earliest podcast ever.
It's like 7.30 in the morning.
Keymah Durden (01:16):
Wow, I feel honored.
Diane Bickett (01:17):
Well, I think it'll be good.
It's a beautiful day on thefarm.
Keymah Durden (01:22):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (01:22):
And thank you so much for joining us.
Keymah Durden (01:24):
Looking forward to the interview.
Diane Bickett (01:27):
I remember first meeting you is probably 10 years
ago or more.
I was working with the CuyahogaCounty Solid Waste District and
we were trying to help youclean up some abandoned tires.
Yep, that's right there was alot of dumping in this
neighborhood and there wasprobably hundreds and hundreds
of illegally dumped tires andyou gave me a tour of the
(01:51):
property at the time was maybe agreenhouse and there was a
teepee and it looked like acampsite for kids by the
railroad tracks there and it wasreally cool.
It's still there, Awesome.
Well, tell us, that was then,and you've grown so much over
(02:12):
the years.
Last year I had the honor ofseeing a documentary produced
about your farm and I had lunchhere last week because you have
a community kitchen, that'scorrect.
So how about you give us like avisual tour of the property?
(02:33):
So walk us through the farm,wow, okay.
Keymah Durden (02:36):
No problem, Thank you.
And again, thank you for havingme on your podcast this morning
.
I'm always excited to talkabout the things that we're
doing here at Rid-All.
It's certainly been a labor oflove and a commitment to the
community, to health, towellness, to diet, and it's been
very rewarding, because it's sorare you get to live out your
(02:58):
dream, you know, and we'regetting a chance to do that on a
daily basis and we feel thatwe're really making an impact in
communities of need and beyond.
So, Red All again.
My name is Keymah Durden.
I am one of the co-founders ofthe Red All Green Partnership,
along with Randy McShepherd andDamien Forshe.
(03:19):
Rest in peace.
Diane Bickett (03:21):
Rest in peace.
Keymah Durden (03:22):
Yes yes, yes, and we started here roughly.
I guess it had to be 2010,.
Thereabout 09, 10, as thingsstarted to come together.
We started out on 1.3 acresright off of Kinsman in a very
notorious area in Lower GardenValley called Forgotten Triangle
in Lower Garden Valley calledForgotten Triangle and when we
(03:44):
came on site it was a verynotorious dump ground for
illegal dumping.
A lot of like you mentioned thetires, the construction debris,
Sparsely populated, so peoplethought they could just come no
one's looking, they could justgo dump their garbage and tires
here.
Exactly One of the residents andif not many left in the
(04:06):
neighborhood was quoted assaying that at night, the
population of the neighborhoodwent up because we started
getting all this activity.
Wow, nefarious activity if youwill.
Greg Rotuno (04:16):
Mm-hmm.
Keymah Durden (04:17):
And so that's the landscape we found ourselves in
.
1.3 acres is what we started on.
1.3 acres is what we started onand today we've grown to like.
You mentioned over 20 acresthat we manage to occupy and own
here in the Triangle, whichofficially unofficial makes us
one of the top five largesturban farms in the United States
(04:39):
, particularly owned byAfrican-Americans or minorities.
So that's a real good plus forour team.
It's a real good plus for thecity of Cleveland.
You know who, in times past,took a real bad rap around
environment.
You know the Cuyahoga Riverburning on fire, which led to
the creation of the EPA, youknow.
So Cleveland has really been avanguard in terms of environment
(05:03):
and environmental stewardship,and when we launched the project
, we fit right into that model.
Diane Bickett (05:09):
Love it, love it.
So you farm here, you raisefish, you create soil, you grow
trees, you educate youth, youteach people how to do what you
do, which is farm.
Tell us how many greenhouses doyou have.
Tell us about the wholeoperation.
Keymah Durden (05:28):
Yes, yes.
So what we did when we firstgot started?
We partnered up with a groupout of Milwaukee called Growing
Power and that was run at thattime by Will Allen.
Will Allen.
Yeah very, very.
He was like the forerunner ofurban ag during this generation
of time and so when we met upwith him, we decided to go take
(05:50):
his training course.
We knew we wanted to dosomething important in the
community, but in order to do it, we wanted to do it the right
way.
So we wanted to go get training.
So we took Will Allen'sfive-month training program,
which led to us becomingauthorized to become a regional
training center for growingpower at that time, and we used
(06:11):
that model and we started withthe things that we learned at
Growing Power, which were thebasics, were urban agriculture,
growing local foods.
Compost was number one.
I should have said that first.
Diane Bickett (06:23):
That's right.
Keymah Durden (06:25):
Nothing happens without the soil.
Diane Bickett (06:26):
That was one of the first things you were doing
here.
Keymah Durden (06:28):
Yeah, nothing happens without that soil so
compost, which we are a Class IIEPA-certified compost facility
Again one of the very fewminority-owned compost
facilities in Ohio and in the, Iguess, the Midwest region, if
you will.
So that speaks to the valuethat we put on our soil so soil.
(06:52):
Then we also do aquaponics.
You mentioned that we raisetilapia fish here on site.
We have about 850,000 tilapiafish breeding that we make
available.
Diane Bickett (07:03):
Really yes.
Keymah Durden (07:05):
That we make available to local restaurants
and we also make available tomany of the local grocery stores
We've just recently gotten intothe Meyers.
Meyers just built a new grocerystore here in Cleveland, right
at the Cleveland Clinic area, sowe have our products in that
particular market, which is verygood because it gets exposure
(07:25):
to the community and gets ourproduct out there From there.
We've got a tree nursery.
We're part of the ClevelandTree Coalition to help
repopulate and reforest thisbeautiful forest city of ours.
We've launched a communitykitchen where we serve fresh
food two times a week to thecommunity on Tuesdays and
(07:48):
Fridays.
Diane Bickett (07:51):
Taco Tuesday and fish fry Friday.
Taco Tuesday is highlyrecommended Very good, it's a
winner.
Keymah Durden (07:56):
And the other days we rent out the facility
for meetings, small gatheringsand things like that.
So that particular institutionhas worked out really well
because it becomes a revenuegenerator for the organization.
Diane Bickett (08:09):
Very good.
Keymah Durden (08:10):
We have a very robust veterans program where
we're working with localveterans First around
post-traumatic stress disorder.
Many studies have shown thatfor veterans that can get into a
green space it helps alleviatesome of the symptoms.
You know, if you're having abad day mentally they can come
(08:31):
down to the farm right here offof Kinsman and just touch the
earth and be at peace are beingapplied with horse therapy
gardening for military veterans,even for some inmates that are
incarcerated, and it's showngreat benefits.
(08:52):
So our veterans program is veryrobust.
Diane Bickett (08:56):
Are you a veteran or were any of your founders
veterans?
Keymah Durden (08:59):
No, but most of our parents were David, Dr
Greenhand.
He's a Marine, Uncle, WaltWalter Collins is Army.
We have several veterans on ourstaff, but the actual
co-founders were not Okay,Except for, of course, Dave
Hester, Dr Greenhand and we'realso glad to announce that
(09:21):
sometime later this year we willbe breaking ground on the
Walter Collins Veteran HousingComplex where we'll be building
out 12 units to house homelessveterans, with a focus on social
services, suicide preventionand things of that nature, to
really, really offer veteransthat have really put their life
(09:43):
on the line a handout and sayhey, if you're having a tough
time, we want to find a way tohelp.
Diane Bickett (09:50):
And that will be in this neighborhood as well.
Keymah Durden (09:52):
It will be in this neighborhood.
The ground has already beenselected, the drawings are done,
we're ready to go.
We're just finishing up a fewloose ends with the city of
Cleveland around permittingloose ends with the city of
Cleveland around permitting.
The complex is going to beerected at 93rd, between 93rd
and 116th and Harvard.
Diane Bickett (10:10):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (10:11):
So not even 10 minutes from here.
Diane Bickett (10:13):
You guys don't slow down, do you?
Keymah Durden (10:16):
Well, the need is so great, you know, and when
the need is great, it requiresthose that have the fortitude,
the vision, the tenacity to stepup and respond to the need.
I think you know.
Just to take a step back, toreally understand what motivates
us is this whole idea oftransforming communities and all
(10:36):
of the things that we mentionedso far that we've sort of
talked about.
None of it works if people arenot involved.
So at the core of all of thiswork is people, and if we could
find ways to reach the peopleand offer healthy lifestyle
options, then we've done our jobfor today, today.
(11:03):
So how do we take an area likethe Forgotten Triangle and, over
a seven, eight year period oftime which is actually 15 years
now transform it to the urbanagriculture innovation zone?
You know, that's a big leapfrom that reality to this
reality, and so that's workedout really well for us, and we
believe that people are themajor component to the work that
we do.
Everything that we talked about, kind of some of the highlights
(11:25):
of the farm, they don't matterif people are not included in it
and we're not affecting thelives of people.
So I just wanted to add that inbecause I think that sets the
context of everything else thatwe do last friday I attended uh
(11:48):
the opening of food strong'sfarm, the superior farm, yes,
and sarah continenza was on anearlier show.
Diane Bickett (11:50):
That's our favorite, one of our favorite
friends and partners yeah, shecalls you her brothers yeah,
absolutely um, she in herremarks at the event she said
there's no I in this, it's allwe.
That's right, and there wereprobably 100 people there.
You know that had worked tokind of get it to where it is
(12:11):
now.
She's got her five-year plan soit's going to take a while to
transform that whole property.
But how are you like workingwith other urban farmers in
Cleveland to support each other?
There's a lot of you know FoodStrong and your farm and other
others you want to mention andhow you kind of help each other.
Keymah Durden (12:32):
Yeah, I'll go back to the comment that I made
earlier that the need is sogreat you know, one urban farm
in any given city will not meetthe needs of that community.
So we need as many urban farmsas we possibly can, growing,
putting out good food, offeringeducational opportunities,
offering job opportunities tostudents.
(12:52):
So I mean, you name it, we'vetouched just about every urban
farm in some aspect or another.
Where we share information, wehost community events
collectively.
One of the big events that wehave every year is the,
sponsored by EnvironmentalHealth Watch, the Fresh Fest.
Diane Bickett (13:12):
Oh, when is that?
Keymah Durden (13:13):
It's the second September of second weekend of
September every year when willit be this year?
It's always held here on theRid-All campus.
Diane Bickett (13:22):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (13:24):
And that's a play on words, because we like to
use the word campus.
It just sounds so ritzy.
It is a campus.
It is a campus.
It is a campus.
It started out as a farm andnow it really is a campus, and
maybe we'll touch on that alittle bit before we wrap up.
It really is a campus, andmaybe we'll touch on that a
little bit before we wrap up, sowe bring our partners in from
all over the country toparticipate.
(13:44):
Last year we had over 85,000attendance in one day.
And that was down from 60 or 65the previous year, and even
during COVID we brought in 50.
Diane Bickett (13:59):
Wow, what a celebration.
Yeah, and it's a brought in 50,you know, wow, what a
celebration.
Keymah Durden (14:01):
Yeah, and it's a celebration of arts, community,
friend, family, and then wealways highlight it with a
concert by bringing in some formof entertainer, like an old
school entertainer.
Some of the examples we had BizMarquis come Last year, we had
Big Daddy Kane.
This year we're going to haveMC Lyte and Roxanne Shante,
(14:28):
we've had Kid Capri, spinderella, so we've had these kind of old
school rap artists, hip hopartists come and just fellowship
with us and connect with thecommunity and it's like a um,
you can imagine, almost like abig block party.
So, um, we work hard but weplay hard too.
Greg Rotuno (14:48):
I love it.
I love it Um can you talk aboutthe name.
Keymah Durden (14:53):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Uh, the name is is really thebackstory of of the whole riddle
operation.
The name is really thebackstory of the whole Rid-All
operation.
The Rid-All Corporation as anentity was established by Randy
McShepard and Damien Forshe asan exterminating company.
Did the light bulb go off?
Yeah right and Damien's mottowas get rid of all of your woes
(15:15):
for real love.
And he was one of the very fewminority contractors that was
exterminating in public housing.
And, as you can imagine, publichousing probably has some of
the most challenging pestsituations, from bed bugs to
roaches to mice, to you name it.
And he and his team would go inand have to deal with those
(15:38):
type of issues on a daily basis,would go in and have to deal
with those type of issues on adaily basis.
And that really became themotivation for the one of the
motivations for the formation ofRid-All.
Because Damien was so moved bywhat he saw.
Because even for many of us,when you drive through an urban
core community and you see thegovernment project housing, it
leaves you feeling you know youget a reaction.
(15:59):
But imagine going leaves youfeeling you know you get a
reaction.
But imagine going in the unityou know.
And then the exterminator wasthe one that was going in the
unit.
So Damien was really moved whenhe saw the diet that the
children had If they were eatingat all, they might have been
eating leftover hot flame andFritos from the night before or
something ridiculous and it justreally affected him in such a
(16:23):
way that he said we had to dosomething.
I had come from a background ofstill a background of being a
vegan for over 30 plus years andhad ran and operated a series
of restaurants called SoulVegetarian here in Cleveland,
mostly anchored in ClevelandHeights.
Vegetarian here in Cleveland,mostly anchored in Cleveland
(16:43):
Heights and so I brought healthyfood and healthy education to
the mix.
And Randy, well knownthroughout Cleveland he's part
of a Fortune 500 company does alot of great things around
Cleveland.
He's actually now the sittingCleveland Foundation board
director.
Oh good, yeah, just recentlystarted his tenure there as a
board director.
Longstanding board member, hebrought philanthropy.
(17:07):
He knew how to get granddollars.
He knew how to raise money.
So it was like the perfectstorm when we all came together
and Damien's only request was hejust wanted to keep the name
Riddle.
Diane Bickett (17:18):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (17:18):
We're like all right, we're going to make it
work.
So you went from exterminatingthings to growing things.
Yeah, we're going to make itwork, because all of us like so
it is a green partnership.
It is, it is.
And then we took the termRid-All and made an acronym for
it and we said it would becalled Redeem, Integrity and
Determination for All Mankind.
(17:39):
So we called redeem, integrityand determination for all
mankind.
So we took a spin on it, but wekept it.
Diane Bickett (17:45):
We kept to our word and kept the name that's
beautiful, yeah, and, and.
Keymah Durden (18:00):
And it has so much meaning now that it always
did, because Damien's vision wasto create generational wealth
and he knew that in order to dothat, he had to establish an
institution and Rid-All All.
Now is an institution knownworldwide for doing quality work
in communities andneighborhoods.
Diane Bickett (18:07):
Well, damien passed away, I think seven years
ago or so it was a great lossto your community, but you honor
him through your work every day.
It seems like Absolutely.
Keymah Durden (18:18):
And even the city took notice and they named East
82nd Damien Forshe Way.
So every stop sign, everystreet pole along the street has
his picture on it and his name.
So we always like to say Dame'swatching down from heaven,
keeping an eye on things.
Diane Bickett (18:35):
He is.
Let's talk about your youtheducation programs, which you're
doing some really cool stuff.
One of your programs is Greenin the Ghetto, right yeah, are
you teaching what do you wantkids to get out of and what are
you teaching them and what doyou want them to gain?
Keymah Durden (18:56):
Well, the most important thing is to establish
good habits early in lifeBecause typically, particularly
for children, if they can startgood habits early on, they'll
carry them throughout the restof their life and they'll have
an impact on their community, ontheir immediate family, their
personal family, their friendsand particularly around diet
(19:16):
choices.
We live in a society now wherewe hear of certain ailments that
we never heard of 20, 30 yearsago Childhood obesity.
Diane Bickett (19:27):
Diet eating and children.
Keymah Durden (19:28):
Childhood diet, yeah, and it's like unheard of,
and all of these are preventable.
So our whole goal is if we canget a message into our youth at
an early age, if it's just onething that they build on into
our youth at an early age, ifit's just one thing that they
build on.
We had done some youthleadership programming and a few
of the participants, you knowyounger students, were a little,
(19:49):
you know, on the heavy side interms of weight and many of them
will come back a year later,you know, fit and happy, and say
you know, you guys changed mylife.
Diane Bickett (19:58):
Really.
Keymah Durden (20:06):
Changed my life and what we also found, diane,
is that when children makedecisions about their health and
their diet, it affects thehousehold they live in, because
now their parents have to makean adjustment.
You know, they can say you'regoing to eat that pork chop and
they say I don't want no morepork chop.
So somebody's going to have togive that's called pester power.
Diane Bickett (20:19):
That's called pester power.
Keymah Durden (20:20):
Yeah, that's what it is.
That's what it is and it helpsbecause it's a trickle-down
benefit to everybody in thecommunity.
Okay, but I should mention,since we're talking, our youth
program.
We do have a young adultprogram, so we serve all ages,
from kindergarten priest K allthe way to senior citizens, from
kindergarten priest K all theway to senior citizens, and we
(20:40):
thought that it's very importantthat we capture that age group
from, say, 18 to 30.
We didn't want to leave becausethey're young adults, they're
making decisions, they'restarting life, they're laying
the foundation for the rest oftheir life and career.
So my son and some of hisfriends and family, who started
(21:02):
out down here volunteering,really got a hold of this thing.
They got bit by the green bugand decided to stay and have
created a youth farm right hereon campus with a geodesic dome,
oxygen dome, several otherfeatures.
That's very exciting to thecommunity.
That's kind of out of the box,you will, things that haven't
(21:23):
been seen before, where we offernot just health and nutrition
but we also offer yoga, soundtherapy.
You know things of that naturebecause, even as young adults,
stress is a major killer, and ifparticularly in urban core
communities where you have somany challenges we think about.
(21:43):
You know we always think aboutstress and depression that
individuals that are older, butthat's not the case.
You know, some of these childrenhave witnessed some extreme
violence, their friends gettingkilled.
I mean just you couldn'timagine some of the things that
the children shared and some ofthe things that the children
shared and some of the things intheir own household.
So we figured we had to figurea way to address that.
(22:06):
We had to look at topics likegun violence.
You know, when the whole TamirRice thing took place, we
launched a series of comic bookscalled Shoot Hoops, Not Guns.
That went very, very well.
So we've been really, reallyengaged.
And lastly, on our youthprogramming is, what we found is
that peer-to-peer communicationseemed to work a lot better.
(22:28):
And what I mean by that is youknow, I'm blessed and happy.
I'll be 60 years old this year.
I'm very, very happy about that.
But you know, a message from memay generate a little different
to a group of 20-year-olds thananother 20-year-old talking to
a group of 20-year-olds.
Diane Bickett (22:44):
And how old is your son?
Keymah Durden (22:45):
My son.
He'll be 30.
Diane Bickett (22:47):
Okay, what's his name?
Keymah Durden (22:48):
His name is Aharon.
Diane Bickett (22:50):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (22:50):
And he's also named Keymah after me.
Diane Bickett (22:53):
You know so.
So he's leading some of theseinitiatives.
Yes, yes, Wow, that must feelreally good.
Keymah Durden (22:58):
Oh, it feels great it feels, great because
you know the other side of thatis that you get a chance to see
that there is another generationto carry this work on.
Diane Bickett (23:07):
Yes.
Keymah Durden (23:07):
You know we've made quite a financial
investment in this project.
We made personal investments,both physical, spiritual.
I mean we put our heart andsoul here and for us to move on
and do something else and thenthis just rot and fall away
would be a travesty.
So we want to be able to passthat on to the next generation
(23:32):
so that the Red All banner willwave high and long forever,
because people need to eatforever.
People want good food forever.
So having a facility here,right where it's located, I
think is very important for thefuture.
Diane Bickett (23:46):
So you talk about the value of community health
and wellness, gardening You'reproviding for the whole person,
Mm-hmm, and all those things.
It sounds like they allintersect here on your campus.
Greg Rotuno (24:04):
They do.
Diane Bickett (24:05):
And so you're much more than a farm.
Keymah Durden (24:09):
We are, we are, we are yeah.
Diane Bickett (24:12):
What's the prolific oxygen dome?
Is that the?
What is that?
Greg Rotuno (24:18):
well, I don't know if you look on a map.
Diane Bickett (24:21):
You see this.
Yeah, prolific oxygen dome,this name, what is that?
Keymah Durden (24:26):
well, is that where?
Diane Bickett (24:26):
you're doing your yoga and stuff yes, yes it.
Keymah Durden (24:29):
if you heard of a gentleman going way back called
Buck, Mr Fuller.
Diane Bickett (24:35):
Yeah, the geodesic dome guy.
Keymah Durden (24:36):
He's the guy that created the concept.
So it's a smaller version ofthat.
It's designed to circulate airinside to keep, you know, fresh
oxygen going.
So if you're doing yoga, ifyou're doing exercise, you get
the full benefit of it, of itit's solar heated exercise, you
get the full benefit of it.
Of it, it's solar, heated, it'soff the grid, it's almost like a
big yerk, if you will, but itserves so many purposes in terms
(24:59):
of being sustainable.
There's no outdoor power, it'sall solar.
You know, and it's just anexample of what's possible.
You know, a picture's worth athousand words, right, but when
you can see something and touchit, that's worth a million words
now, because you impregnatepeople with an idea that I can
do this also.
So the geodesic dome is anotherway of demonstrating what's
(25:22):
possible, because prior to this,we never really got a chance to
think outside of the box.
You know, everything was sortof scripted.
You know, at least in mygeneration.
You went to high school, youwent to college, you got a good
job, you worked 40 years and youretired, you know, and then
went to a nursing home orsomething.
I don't know what was expected,but God forbid yeah.
(25:43):
God forbid, right and um.
It's a little different now.
And and um.
The world is changing.
You got AI, you got technologyout here, and how do you
integrate the two?
And we know that our youthcomponent is needed to help us
cross that bridge, because rightnow in the world, you can't
exist without the other.
There is a place where you wantto stay.
(26:04):
You don't want to go too techcrazy.
You want to stay, touch theearth.
I mean, we're earth people.
We want to stay grounded there,but we know there are a whole
other system that we got tocommunicate through, and that's
technology.
So we got to learn both.
We're talking with some localfolks about getting some garden
bots here robots.
Diane Bickett (26:23):
Get out.
Keymah Durden (26:24):
That can do weeding and watering.
Send one my way, we thinkthat'll work really good at our
tree nursery too, because that'sthe most labor intensive
activity is watering the treesevery day.
Diane Bickett (26:36):
Well, you make such a good point because all
the stuff, the technology, theAI stuff is really intimidating
for my generation, especiallythe AI stuff.
I mean, no one really knowswhere it's going.
But when you talk about theyouth being that bridge, I think
that's what it is.
(26:57):
That's where it is.
It's important.
It's important.
How do you speaking here's atransition for you how do you
bridge your work with thecommunity?
I understand you took overfarmer jones market so you're
bringing fresh produce to MapleHeights, another inner entering
city, yes, and then you have anevent center here at your
(27:20):
community kitchen.
Tell us about the communitykitchen and what's available
there.
Keymah Durden (27:25):
Yes, the community kitchen was born out
of the idea around health andwellness that we believed and
learned that most individualswant the best.
It's just a matter of can theyafford the best.
So we wanted to make the bestaffordable.
We wanted to also use it as ateaching platform, because many
(27:46):
folks, like I mentioned, I'vebeen a vegan for over 30 plus
years and many folks want to trycertain things, but they're a
little intimidated because theynever tried it.
They don't know how it works,you know they don't know what
tofu is.
Or you know they don't know.
You know they couldn't imaginecooking collard greens without
putting the neck bone in it or aturkey foot or something.
And we bring that type ofeducation.
Diane Bickett (28:07):
You saw my face.
Keymah Durden (28:11):
We bring that kind of education to the
community.
Okay, and education is big.
And I think one thing that'sworth mentioning here as we talk
about the event center and theother aspects of Riddle we tried
to structure it in a way youknow there's a movement called
circularity that you may hearabout now more, and we wanted to
create a model where eachaspect of our work touches and
(28:34):
supports the other aspect of ourwork.
So there's no aspect of what wedo at Riddle that stands alone.
It either feeds, supports ordraws from another area of
Riddle.
So because we grow localproduce, we make soil, so the
soil feeds the growth of theproduce, the produce that we
(28:56):
produce.
We could take that to ourfarmer's market in Maple Heights
to sell, and then anything thatgoes bad we could bring it back
to our farm and compost it.
So what we've done is closed theloop you know in terms of how,
in terms of a business modelloop, in terms of a business
model and we're really beginningto take a deep dive in that, as
(29:17):
some of our staff members arereally beginning to embrace this
idea of circularity to see waysthat communities, cities, how
can we work together in such away that our work builds and
complements on each other, asopposed to working and operating
in silos.
So we've been toying with theterm regenerative agriculture as
(29:40):
different than sustainable.
They have two differentmeanings and connotations.
Regenerative well, no,sustainable means not making the
situation any worse than italready is.
So you want?
Greg Rotuno (29:53):
to sustain.
Keymah Durden (29:54):
You don't want it to get any.
You know you may not be able toimprove it, but you don't want
it to get any worse, so you wantto sustain it.
Regenerative speaks about beingable to restore or make a
situation better than you foundit.
You know, to bring somethingback.
Diane Bickett (30:10):
So you are practicing regenerative farming
here You're creating your blackgold, which is your compost,
that's right.
So that supports the growing ofthe food.
Do you sell that material too?
Keymah Durden (30:22):
We do.
We do this is a busy time ofyear for us we do.
We've added in anothercomponent to our compost.
It's called biochar.
It's produced from a woodproduct through paralysis and we
burn down the woodchar and mixit in with our soil and it's
(30:42):
like activated carbon.
It activates the soil andbecomes a carbon sink.
So it has an environmentalimpact, because we know about
carbon emission, carbon gasesthat are trapped, you know, in
the atmosphere, and there'sreally no, there really hadn't
been any very successful way tobring that carbon down.
And that almost goes back tothe term sustainable, because it
(31:04):
said, all right, well, let'snot put any more carbon out
there, let's not put any morecarbon gases out there, but how
do you bring down what's there?
Diane Bickett (31:10):
So you're sequestering it and that's right
.
Keymah Durden (31:11):
Okay, that's not putting more carbon gases out
there, but how do you bring downwhat's there?
So you're sequestering it.
That's right.
Okay, that's right Interesting,that's right.
Diane Bickett (31:16):
Can you talk about the aquaponics for a
minute?
You're growing tilapia here.
It sounds like it's a big partof your operation.
Is there some things that needto be debunked about fish
farming that you would like totalk about?
Keymah Durden (31:30):
There is.
There's a disclaimer I shouldmake first.
Diane Bickett (31:33):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (31:34):
Before I answer that question and again I keep
mentioning I'm vegan, right.
So when people ask about thefish, I always say one thing I
haven't tasted it.
I say it's the best fish I'venever tasted.
Greg Rotuno (31:46):
Yeah, I know that's so corny but I say it all the
time People are tired of hearingit, but no, it's true.
Keymah Durden (31:54):
So the aquaponics ?
Because, first of all, mybackground is in engineering.
That's what I worked in theengineering aviation space for
over 25 years and just recentlyretired to come on, you know, to
take on the radarresponsibility full time.
And so I'm intrigued byaquaponics because of the
technology involved.
And it's such a simple system.
(32:15):
It's just water that's filteredthrough plants and the plants
take the water as fertilizer andreturn clean water back to the
system.
Diane Bickett (32:26):
Circularity.
Keymah Durden (32:26):
Circularity there it is again at work.
It's all around us and we justnever really paid attention to
it.
It's all throughout nature andso, um, there are.
You hear a lot of things aboutfarm-raised fish.
Um, you hear a lot of thingsabout tilapia.
You know that's a man-made fishand you know all of these
things that we've had to debunkand, um, the one harsh reality,
(32:50):
um, about all of that is thatright now, in 2025, the oceans
have been overfished.
In another 10 years, there'llbe little aquaculture left in
the oceans to supply the humanfamily, so we're going to have
to think about alternative waysto eat to live, about
(33:17):
alternative ways to eat to live.
The aquaponics method is also avery good system for villages
and rural areas, ruralcommunities around the world,
because you could use solar, runa solar pump and you could feed
an entire village of fish on a2,000-gallon tank.
That's very easy to construct,so there is a regenerative
component to it.
In terms of the fish qualityagain, best fish I never tasted
(33:41):
but because the environment iscontrolled, the water is checked
daily.
We control our own feed.
You know we process our ownfish.
You know everything that we dowith our fish.
We control and much of the badrap that the fish gets.
Tilapia in particular, is aroundthe idea that it's a dirty fish
(34:03):
too, and that's because of thatmost of the areas where the
fish is being harvested from youknow you're talking, you know
some of the most polluted watersin the world India, africa,
asia and so you get you knowyou're going to get from the
environment the fish.
You know what the fish bring tothe environment.
So because we have such acontrolled environment, we're
(34:25):
able to really raise a healthy,quality fish that doesn't have
the chemicals, that doesn't havethe pollutants.
And just one last note abouttilapia, for those that really
want to do a deep dive tilapiais just one species of a fish in
the cichlid family Cichlidfamily Cichlid, yeah cichlid,
(34:46):
and for those that ever had anaquarium, you might know what a
cichlid is.
They got convicts, jackDempsey's, and there's a whole
variety of cichlids out there,and cichlids are a fresh water,
warm fresh water fish.
It's not salt water.
So that worked out well for ustoo.
And the most pristine areaswhere they're raised at is in
(35:12):
the Sea of Galilee and in theregion of what's referred to as
the Holy Land.
That area and some rumors sayit's not official I wasn't there
to verify but some say thatthat's the fish that Jesus fed
the multitudes with the tilapia,because it's very indigenous to
that particular area.
Diane Bickett (35:31):
Wow, yes, wow, yes, wow.
Well, I think fish farming hassometimes, you know it gets a
bad rap because you know justlike it might be an industrial
type operation, just like achicken farm could be an
industrial operation, Rightright.
But you're more small scale andclean and it is delicious.
(35:56):
I actually have tasted it itwas.
Keymah Durden (35:58):
It was a testimony.
Diane Bickett (35:59):
Your community kitchen is open on Tuesdays and
Fridays from what time?
Keymah Durden (36:04):
On Tuesdays, from 12 to 2.
Diane Bickett (36:06):
12 to 2.
Keymah Durden (36:07):
And on Fridays from 12 to 3.30.
Diane Bickett (36:09):
Okay, and folks can come down for Taco Tuesday
and then Fish Friday.
Keymah Durden (36:15):
Yep, no reservations required, just come
on down, yeah, just show up, Imean for $10,.
Diane Bickett (36:18):
you get a big healthy portion.
Greg Rotuno (36:20):
Yes, you do.
Diane Bickett (36:21):
It's delicious, and come check out the farm.
Do you offer tours?
Keymah Durden (36:25):
We do.
We do tours on an ongoing basis.
Folks contact us through ourwebsite or via phone.
We schedule tours for schoolgroups, community groups.
We've been working with theCleveland Council of World
Affairs for years Our goodfriend Andrew Kovach over there.
We've brought exchange studentsin groups everywhere, from
(36:49):
China, russia, all throughoutCentral America.
Diane Bickett (36:55):
Wow, show them how it's done.
Keymah Durden (36:57):
That's great we got a group that just came from
China last week and had asession with Dave and talked
about life and farming.
We got a group from Uzbekistancoming soon and because of that
work this is great Because ofthat work, a year and a half ago
we won the Global CitizenshipAward.
Congratulations and we'reinvited to Washington DC to this
(37:17):
big swanky affair, and wereceived our award.
Diane Bickett (37:20):
I hope that comes with lots of money.
Keymah Durden (37:22):
Oh well, we got to turn it into that.
But it does give you the kindof recognition, international
recognition, that's needed toget exposure.
So we're really really happyabout that, okay.
Diane Bickett (37:35):
And you have an um.
Do you want to just touch onyour urban agriculture training
program?
Keymah Durden (37:41):
Yes, yes, our standing um bread and butter has
been our five month trainingprogram.
It starts uh January of everyyear, runs from January through
May and we meet one weekend amonth for five months and each
month is a different topic.
We range from urban farming, wetalk about agribusiness.
(38:03):
It's one of the modules.
We talk about the communityaspects of food because that's
important.
Sometimes people don't thinkabout that as much, but there's
a very important communityaspect to food.
We talk about compost and wetalk about aquaponics.
So each month we teach adifferent module dedicated to
those five topics andthen the students graduate.
(38:24):
We just had a class graduatelast month, about 15 students,
and that's about the range wenormally graduate every year
about 15, 20 students.
Some years the need has been sogreat we've done two cohorts,
so this year we're just going todo one, because we got a lot of
training going on throughoutfrom now to the end of the year.
(38:46):
But it's been very, verysuccessful.
And again, we really hang ourhat on the idea that.
You know, there's a saying thatwhen people know better, they
do better, and sometimes thechallenge is not, you know,
having access, it's just havingaccess to the proper knowledge,
(39:07):
because then it helps allow youto make the proper decisions.
See something?
Diane Bickett (39:09):
they've never seen before.
Do something they've never donebefore.
Keymah Durden (39:12):
Exactly, Exactly.
And because the other thing is,people are making decisions
with their wallet, you know, andnot necessarily with their
stomach or their or their orwhat they want.
So there's a thought thatthere's an educational process
involved in that, where you haveto teach or share information
with people on why and Apple isnot an Apple phone- but a real
(39:37):
Apple, delicious Apple Um.
Why that's?
You know $2.59 a pound.
And then I could go toMcDonald's and get two-off beef
patties.
You know how they go two-offbeef patties.
Greg Rotuno (39:52):
Special sauce lettuce cheese pickles I use a
special received bun for 99cents.
Keymah Durden (39:59):
So if I got a dollar in my pocket, I'm going
to go for the Big Mac, I'm notgoing to go for the apple.
In my pocket, I'm going to gofor the Big Mac, I'm not going
to go for the Apple.
But when you understand why youneed to make that decision and
the long-term effects of thatdecision, then you pause and you
think for a minute.
We got a ton of sayings aroundhere.
Here's another one I'll sharewith you.
It says you're going to eitherpay the farmer or the doctor.
Diane Bickett (40:21):
True.
Keymah Durden (40:21):
You choose, but you're going to pay one of them.
You're going to pay the farmeror the doctor, so we like to
keep that in front of people aswell.
Diane Bickett (40:29):
Yeah, and you're giving them the tools to grow
their own food.
Keymah Durden (40:33):
Absolutely.
Diane Bickett (40:34):
That's key.
Teach a man to fish right.
Keymah Durden (40:36):
That's right, that's right, that's the model.
Diane Bickett (40:39):
Is there anything else you want to share before
we wrap up about, um, justanything we might have missed?
I know I feel like I've beenjumping around in this
conversation because you have somuch going on here yes you have
an international uh presence uhprogram that I mean we may not
(41:00):
have time to get into, but um,like I said, just so much going
on and not enough time to get toit, so maybe we'll have to get
back.
But what did we miss that youwant?
Keymah Durden (41:13):
to leave us with.
I think there's one thing thatfolks miss sometimes and that we
don't even realize as muchuntil you think about it on a
deeper level and even thinkabout the history of people and
communities, and what we'vediscovered is that we really
have a.
We have what we call a culturalresponsibility, and what do I
(41:35):
mean by that is that when youlook at the history,
particularly of AfricanAmericans that came to America
land-based in terms of farming,living on the land, eating on
the land, staying on the landand then the transition that
took place from the greatmigration from the South to the
(41:57):
North and we came into cities,then the whole dynamic changed
and the idea of farming becamesomething like a country or old
I ain't doing that, that's toomuch like slavery and so what
happened is we began to lose, asa community, an essential
survival skill, because everycommunity should know how to
(42:18):
feed themselves.
And when we think back most ofus, like I mentioned, I'll be 60
, so I think to my parents andgrandparents.
They all had gardens in theiryard and I think most of us have
that same type of testimony.
So in some ways, we're payinghomage to our ancestors by
continuing that legacy andcontinuing to learn how to grow
(42:39):
and continue to put our hands inthe soil.
So there's a culturalresponsibility that we have to
pass this information on to thenext generation, because my
grandfather certainly took meout and showed me how to farm.
My dad I went out and learned.
And Dave, one of our majorplayers here at Riddle, he talks
about how his grandmothertaught him how to grow and farm.
(43:00):
So, wherever they may be, inwhatever form they may be in,
they're smiling because they saythey're keeping it going.
Because, you know, we talkedbriefly about technology and
it's moving us away from theland.
It's moving us away from thosethings that are real into a more
virtual reality.
And you know, I'll never getthe same experience of touching
(43:24):
an apple, a golden, deliciousapple, versus holding an iPhone
apple.
I'll never get the sameexperience Because, as a human,
family.
Diane Bickett (43:36):
It's not alive.
Keymah Durden (43:37):
No, it's not.
And as a human family and as ahuman species, we need to
interact with nature, the sourceof our creation, in order to
complete the loop, to close theloop, to feel completed, because
we can't exist without nature,nature can't exist.
Well, nature can't exist withoutus, we can't exist without
nature, and so I just thoughtthat was worth mentioning, in
(43:59):
that, at a very, very deep butyet subtle level, there is this
cultural responsibility that wehave to our ancestors to say
thank you for surviving, thankyou for bringing okra seeds from
Africa and black-eyed pea seedsso we can continue to maintain
at least a diet that we wereused to from the land that we
(44:23):
came from, and thanks to all ofour folks in the community that
still grow and cook those typeof foods, and though we struggle
to find out ways to make themhealthier, about maybe
eliminating some of the oils anddifferent things in the deep
frying, and we know the effectsof that, but the cultural idea
of it is just so important to toto to us at Riddle that we felt
(44:48):
that that was worth mentioning.
Diane Bickett (44:50):
Thank you, Keymah Durden, for sharing that.
Keymah Durden (44:52):
Thank you.
Diane Bickett (44:53):
And for honoring your legacy and for your
creating a legacy of your ownand for all you're doing for the
community.
Keymah Durden (45:01):
Well, I'll throw it right back at you and say
thank you and your team forcoming out and doing this.
I mean, you've been atrailblazer yourself.
You know, shook a few cages,rattled a few doors, but if you
called Diane she was going toget it done.
Thank, you and um.
It means a lot, you know, inthe capacities that you've
touched around, cleveland hasbeen well felt.
Oh, thank you you're, you're,you'll go get her thank you.
Diane Bickett (45:24):
Well, I'm glad we were able to reconnect.
Keymah Durden (45:26):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (45:27):
And I would love to bring a team of EcoSpeaks
listeners down here to volunteersomeday, please do so we will
figure a way to organize that.
Keymah Durden (45:38):
Let's plan that.
Okay, all right, all right?
Diane Bickett (45:40):
Well, you have a great day.
Greg Rotuno (45:42):
Thank you.
Diane Bickett (45:42):
Thank you yeah.
Greg Rotuno (45:44):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
You can find our full catalogof episodes on Spotify, apple
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New episodes are available thefirst and third Tuesday of each
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Please follow EcoSpeak CLE onFacebook and Instagram and
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If you would like to send usfeedback and suggestions, or if
(46:07):
you'd like to become a sponsorof EcoSpeak CLE, you can email
us at hello at ecospeakclecom.
Stay tuned for more importantand inspiring stories to come.
You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for
the eco-curious in NortheastOhio.
My name is Diane Bickett and myproducer is Greg Rotuno.
Together we speak with localsustainability leaders and
invite you to connect, learn andlive with our community and
planet in mind.
Hello friends, Greg and I areexcited to be coming to you from
(00:25):
the Ridolph Urban Farm thismorning.
Perhaps you've heard of it.
Located on about 26 acres offKinsman Avenue, between East
79th Street and East 84th Street, this farm is a center of urban
agriculture, environmentalstewardship and resilience in a
Cleveland neighborhood oncecalled the Forgotten Triangle.
Well, this part of Cleveland isforgotten no more.
(00:52):
A labor of love has transformedthis land into an urban oasis
of health and opportunity,thanks to our guest today,
Keymah Durden and his Blackbrothers, the co-founders of Rid
All Green Partnership.
Thank you for joining us as wehear about all the various ways
that Rid- All is growingcommunities and changing lives.
Welcome Keymah.
Keymah Durden (01:09):
Welcome, thank you.
Thank you for having me, andgood morning.
Diane Bickett (01:12):
This is our earliest podcast ever.
It's like 7.30 in the morning.
Keymah Durden (01:16):
Wow, I feel honored.
Diane Bickett (01:17):
Well, I think it'll be good.
It's a beautiful day on thefarm.
Keymah Durden (01:22):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (01:22):
And thank you so much for joining us.
Keymah Durden (01:24):
Looking forward to the interview.
Diane Bickett (01:27):
I remember first meeting you is probably 10 years
ago or more.
I was working with the CuyahogaCounty Solid Waste District and
we were trying to help youclean up some abandoned tires.
Yep, that's right there was alot of dumping in this
neighborhood and there wasprobably hundreds and hundreds
of illegally dumped tires andyou gave me a tour of the
(01:51):
property at the time was maybe agreenhouse and there was a
teepee and it looked like acampsite for kids by the
railroad tracks there and it wasreally cool.
It's still there, Awesome.
Well, tell us, that was then,and you've grown so much over
(02:12):
the years.
Last year I had the honor ofseeing a documentary produced
about your farm and I had lunchhere last week because you have
a community kitchen, that'scorrect.
So how about you give us like avisual tour of the property?
(02:33):
So walk us through the farm,wow, okay.
Keymah Durden (02:36):
No problem, Thank you.
And again, thank you for havingme on your podcast this morning
.
I'm always excited to talkabout the things that we're
doing here at Rid-All.
It's certainly been a labor oflove and a commitment to the
community, to health, towellness, to diet, and it's been
very rewarding, because it's sorare you get to live out your
(02:58):
dream, you know, and we'regetting a chance to do that on a
daily basis and we feel thatwe're really making an impact in
communities of need and beyond.
So, Red All again.
My name is Keymah Durden.
I am one of the co-founders ofthe Red All Green Partnership,
along with Randy McShepherd andDamien Forshe.
(03:19):
Rest in peace.
Diane Bickett (03:21):
Rest in peace.
Keymah Durden (03:22):
Yes yes, yes, and we started here roughly.
I guess it had to be 2010,.
Thereabout 09, 10, as thingsstarted to come together.
We started out on 1.3 acresright off of Kinsman in a very
notorious area in Lower GardenValley called Forgotten Triangle
in Lower Garden Valley calledForgotten Triangle and when we
(03:44):
came on site it was a verynotorious dump ground for
illegal dumping.
A lot of like you mentioned thetires, the construction debris,
Sparsely populated, so peoplethought they could just come no
one's looking, they could justgo dump their garbage and tires
here.
Exactly One of the residents andif not many left in the
(04:06):
neighborhood was quoted assaying that at night, the
population of the neighborhoodwent up because we started
getting all this activity.
Wow, nefarious activity if youwill.
Greg Rotuno (04:16):
Mm-hmm.
Keymah Durden (04:17):
And so that's the landscape we found ourselves in
.
1.3 acres is what we started on.
1.3 acres is what we started onand today we've grown to like.
You mentioned over 20 acresthat we manage to occupy and own
here in the Triangle, whichofficially unofficial makes us
one of the top five largesturban farms in the United States
(04:39):
, particularly owned byAfrican-Americans or minorities.
So that's a real good plus forour team.
It's a real good plus for thecity of Cleveland.
You know who, in times past,took a real bad rap around
environment.
You know the Cuyahoga Riverburning on fire, which led to
the creation of the EPA, youknow.
So Cleveland has really been avanguard in terms of environment
(05:03):
and environmental stewardship,and when we launched the project
, we fit right into that model.
Diane Bickett (05:09):
Love it, love it.
So you farm here, you raisefish, you create soil, you grow
trees, you educate youth, youteach people how to do what you
do, which is farm.
Tell us how many greenhouses doyou have.
Tell us about the wholeoperation.
Keymah Durden (05:28):
Yes, yes.
So what we did when we firstgot started?
We partnered up with a groupout of Milwaukee called Growing
Power and that was run at thattime by Will Allen.
Will Allen.
Yeah very, very.
He was like the forerunner ofurban ag during this generation
of time and so when we met upwith him, we decided to go take
(05:50):
his training course.
We knew we wanted to dosomething important in the
community, but in order to do it, we wanted to do it the right
way.
So we wanted to go get training.
So we took Will Allen'sfive-month training program,
which led to us becomingauthorized to become a regional
training center for growingpower at that time, and we used
(06:11):
that model and we started withthe things that we learned at
Growing Power, which were thebasics, were urban agriculture,
growing local foods.
Compost was number one.
I should have said that first.
Diane Bickett (06:23):
That's right.
Keymah Durden (06:25):
Nothing happens without the soil.
Diane Bickett (06:26):
That was one of the first things you were doing
here.
Keymah Durden (06:28):
Yeah, nothing happens without that soil so
compost, which we are a Class IIEPA-certified compost facility
Again one of the very fewminority-owned compost
facilities in Ohio and in the, Iguess, the Midwest region, if
you will.
So that speaks to the valuethat we put on our soil so soil.
(06:52):
Then we also do aquaponics.
You mentioned that we raisetilapia fish here on site.
We have about 850,000 tilapiafish breeding that we make
available.
Diane Bickett (07:03):
Really yes.
Keymah Durden (07:05):
That we make available to local restaurants
and we also make available tomany of the local grocery stores
We've just recently gotten intothe Meyers.
Meyers just built a new grocerystore here in Cleveland, right
at the Cleveland Clinic area, sowe have our products in that
particular market, which is verygood because it gets exposure
(07:25):
to the community and gets ourproduct out there From there.
We've got a tree nursery.
We're part of the ClevelandTree Coalition to help
repopulate and reforest thisbeautiful forest city of ours.
We've launched a communitykitchen where we serve fresh
food two times a week to thecommunity on Tuesdays and
(07:48):
Fridays.
Diane Bickett (07:51):
Taco Tuesday and fish fry Friday.
Taco Tuesday is highlyrecommended Very good, it's a
winner.
Keymah Durden (07:56):
And the other days we rent out the facility
for meetings, small gatheringsand things like that.
So that particular institutionhas worked out really well
because it becomes a revenuegenerator for the organization.
Diane Bickett (08:09):
Very good.
Keymah Durden (08:10):
We have a very robust veterans program where
we're working with localveterans First around
post-traumatic stress disorder.
Many studies have shown thatfor veterans that can get into a
green space it helps alleviatesome of the symptoms.
You know, if you're having abad day mentally they can come
(08:31):
down to the farm right here offof Kinsman and just touch the
earth and be at peace are beingapplied with horse therapy
gardening for military veterans,even for some inmates that are
incarcerated, and it's showngreat benefits.
(08:52):
So our veterans program is veryrobust.
Diane Bickett (08:56):
Are you a veteran or were any of your founders
veterans?
Keymah Durden (08:59):
No, but most of our parents were David, Dr
Greenhand.
He's a Marine, Uncle, WaltWalter Collins is Army.
We have several veterans on ourstaff, but the actual
co-founders were not Okay,Except for, of course, Dave
Hester, Dr Greenhand and we'realso glad to announce that
(09:21):
sometime later this year we willbe breaking ground on the
Walter Collins Veteran HousingComplex where we'll be building
out 12 units to house homelessveterans, with a focus on social
services, suicide preventionand things of that nature, to
really, really offer veteransthat have really put their life
(09:43):
on the line a handout and sayhey, if you're having a tough
time, we want to find a way tohelp.
Diane Bickett (09:50):
And that will be in this neighborhood as well.
Keymah Durden (09:52):
It will be in this neighborhood.
The ground has already beenselected, the drawings are done,
we're ready to go.
We're just finishing up a fewloose ends with the city of
Cleveland around permittingloose ends with the city of
Cleveland around permitting.
The complex is going to beerected at 93rd, between 93rd
and 116th and Harvard.
Diane Bickett (10:10):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (10:11):
So not even 10 minutes from here.
Diane Bickett (10:13):
You guys don't slow down, do you?
Keymah Durden (10:16):
Well, the need is so great, you know, and when
the need is great, it requiresthose that have the fortitude,
the vision, the tenacity to stepup and respond to the need.
I think you know.
Just to take a step back, toreally understand what motivates
us is this whole idea oftransforming communities and all
(10:36):
of the things that we mentionedso far that we've sort of
talked about.
None of it works if people arenot involved.
So at the core of all of thiswork is people, and if we could
find ways to reach the peopleand offer healthy lifestyle
options, then we've done our jobfor today, today.
(11:03):
So how do we take an area likethe Forgotten Triangle and, over
a seven, eight year period oftime which is actually 15 years
now transform it to the urbanagriculture innovation zone?
You know, that's a big leapfrom that reality to this
reality, and so that's workedout really well for us, and we
believe that people are themajor component to the work that
we do.
Everything that we talked about, kind of some of the highlights
(11:25):
of the farm, they don't matterif people are not included in it
and we're not affecting thelives of people.
So I just wanted to add that inbecause I think that sets the
context of everything else thatwe do last friday I attended uh
(11:48):
the opening of food strong'sfarm, the superior farm, yes,
and sarah continenza was on anearlier show.
Diane Bickett (11:50):
That's our favorite, one of our favorite
friends and partners yeah, shecalls you her brothers yeah,
absolutely um, she in herremarks at the event she said
there's no I in this, it's allwe.
That's right, and there wereprobably 100 people there.
You know that had worked tokind of get it to where it is
(12:11):
now.
She's got her five-year plan soit's going to take a while to
transform that whole property.
But how are you like workingwith other urban farmers in
Cleveland to support each other?
There's a lot of you know FoodStrong and your farm and other
others you want to mention andhow you kind of help each other.
Keymah Durden (12:32):
Yeah, I'll go back to the comment that I made
earlier that the need is sogreat you know, one urban farm
in any given city will not meetthe needs of that community.
So we need as many urban farmsas we possibly can, growing,
putting out good food, offeringeducational opportunities,
offering job opportunities tostudents.
(12:52):
So I mean, you name it, we'vetouched just about every urban
farm in some aspect or another.
Where we share information, wehost community events
collectively.
One of the big events that wehave every year is the,
sponsored by EnvironmentalHealth Watch, the Fresh Fest.
Diane Bickett (13:12):
Oh, when is that?
Keymah Durden (13:13):
It's the second September of second weekend of
September every year when willit be this year?
It's always held here on theRid-All campus.
Diane Bickett (13:22):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (13:24):
And that's a play on words, because we like to
use the word campus.
It just sounds so ritzy.
It is a campus.
It is a campus.
It is a campus.
It started out as a farm andnow it really is a campus, and
maybe we'll touch on that alittle bit before we wrap up.
It really is a campus, andmaybe we'll touch on that a
little bit before we wrap up, sowe bring our partners in from
all over the country toparticipate.
(13:44):
Last year we had over 85,000attendance in one day.
And that was down from 60 or 65the previous year, and even
during COVID we brought in 50.
Diane Bickett (13:59):
Wow, what a celebration.
Yeah, and it's a brought in 50,you know, wow, what a
celebration.
Keymah Durden (14:01):
Yeah, and it's a celebration of arts, community,
friend, family, and then wealways highlight it with a
concert by bringing in some formof entertainer, like an old
school entertainer.
Some of the examples we had BizMarquis come Last year, we had
Big Daddy Kane.
This year we're going to haveMC Lyte and Roxanne Shante,
(14:28):
we've had Kid Capri, spinderella, so we've had these kind of old
school rap artists, hip hopartists come and just fellowship
with us and connect with thecommunity and it's like a um,
you can imagine, almost like abig block party.
So, um, we work hard but weplay hard too.
Greg Rotuno (14:48):
I love it.
I love it Um can you talk aboutthe name.
Keymah Durden (14:53):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Uh, the name is is really thebackstory of of the whole riddle
operation.
The name is really thebackstory of the whole Rid-All
operation.
The Rid-All Corporation as anentity was established by Randy
McShepard and Damien Forshe asan exterminating company.
Did the light bulb go off?
Yeah right and Damien's mottowas get rid of all of your woes
(15:15):
for real love.
And he was one of the very fewminority contractors that was
exterminating in public housing.
And, as you can imagine, publichousing probably has some of
the most challenging pestsituations, from bed bugs to
roaches to mice, to you name it.
And he and his team would go inand have to deal with those
(15:38):
type of issues on a daily basis,would go in and have to deal
with those type of issues on adaily basis.
And that really became themotivation for the one of the
motivations for the formation ofRid-All.
Because Damien was so moved bywhat he saw.
Because even for many of us,when you drive through an urban
core community and you see thegovernment project housing, it
leaves you feeling you know youget a reaction.
(15:59):
But imagine going leaves youfeeling you know you get a
reaction.
But imagine going in the unityou know.
And then the exterminator wasthe one that was going in the
unit.
So Damien was really moved whenhe saw the diet that the
children had If they were eatingat all, they might have been
eating leftover hot flame andFritos from the night before or
something ridiculous and it justreally affected him in such a
(16:23):
way that he said we had to dosomething.
I had come from a background ofstill a background of being a
vegan for over 30 plus years andhad ran and operated a series
of restaurants called SoulVegetarian here in Cleveland,
mostly anchored in ClevelandHeights.
Vegetarian here in Cleveland,mostly anchored in Cleveland
(16:43):
Heights and so I brought healthyfood and healthy education to
the mix.
And Randy, well knownthroughout Cleveland he's part
of a Fortune 500 company does alot of great things around
Cleveland.
He's actually now the sittingCleveland Foundation board
director.
Oh good, yeah, just recentlystarted his tenure there as a
board director.
Longstanding board member, hebrought philanthropy.
(17:07):
He knew how to get granddollars.
He knew how to raise money.
So it was like the perfectstorm when we all came together
and Damien's only request was hejust wanted to keep the name
Riddle.
Diane Bickett (17:18):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (17:18):
We're like all right, we're going to make it
work.
So you went from exterminatingthings to growing things.
Yeah, we're going to make itwork, because all of us like so
it is a green partnership.
It is, it is.
And then we took the termRid-All and made an acronym for
it and we said it would becalled Redeem, Integrity and
Determination for All Mankind.
(17:39):
So we called redeem, integrityand determination for all
mankind.
So we took a spin on it, but wekept it.
Diane Bickett (17:45):
We kept to our word and kept the name that's
beautiful, yeah, and, and.
Keymah Durden (18:00):
And it has so much meaning now that it always
did, because Damien's vision wasto create generational wealth
and he knew that in order to dothat, he had to establish an
institution and Rid-All All.
Now is an institution knownworldwide for doing quality work
in communities andneighborhoods.
Diane Bickett (18:07):
Well, damien passed away, I think seven years
ago or so it was a great lossto your community, but you honor
him through your work every day.
It seems like Absolutely.
Keymah Durden (18:18):
And even the city took notice and they named East
82nd Damien Forshe Way.
So every stop sign, everystreet pole along the street has
his picture on it and his name.
So we always like to say Dame'swatching down from heaven,
keeping an eye on things.
Diane Bickett (18:35):
He is.
Let's talk about your youtheducation programs, which you're
doing some really cool stuff.
One of your programs is Greenin the Ghetto, right yeah, are
you teaching what do you wantkids to get out of and what are
you teaching them and what doyou want them to gain?
Keymah Durden (18:56):
Well, the most important thing is to establish
good habits early in lifeBecause typically, particularly
for children, if they can startgood habits early on, they'll
carry them throughout the restof their life and they'll have
an impact on their community, ontheir immediate family, their
personal family, their friendsand particularly around diet
(19:16):
choices.
We live in a society now wherewe hear of certain ailments that
we never heard of 20, 30 yearsago Childhood obesity.
Diane Bickett (19:27):
Diet eating and children.
Keymah Durden (19:28):
Childhood diet, yeah, and it's like unheard of,
and all of these are preventable.
So our whole goal is if we canget a message into our youth at
an early age, if it's just onething that they build on into
our youth at an early age, ifit's just one thing that they
build on.
We had done some youthleadership programming and a few
of the participants, you knowyounger students, were a little,
(19:49):
you know, on the heavy side interms of weight and many of them
will come back a year later,you know, fit and happy, and say
you know, you guys changed mylife.
Diane Bickett (19:58):
Really.
Keymah Durden (20:06):
Changed my life and what we also found, diane,
is that when children makedecisions about their health and
their diet, it affects thehousehold they live in, because
now their parents have to makean adjustment.
You know, they can say you'regoing to eat that pork chop and
they say I don't want no morepork chop.
So somebody's going to have togive that's called pester power.
Diane Bickett (20:19):
That's called pester power.
Keymah Durden (20:20):
Yeah, that's what it is.
That's what it is and it helpsbecause it's a trickle-down
benefit to everybody in thecommunity.
Okay, but I should mention,since we're talking, our youth
program.
We do have a young adultprogram, so we serve all ages,
from kindergarten priest K allthe way to senior citizens, from
kindergarten priest K all theway to senior citizens, and we
(20:40):
thought that it's very importantthat we capture that age group
from, say, 18 to 30.
We didn't want to leave becausethey're young adults, they're
making decisions, they'restarting life, they're laying
the foundation for the rest oftheir life and career.
So my son and some of hisfriends and family, who started
(21:02):
out down here volunteering,really got a hold of this thing.
They got bit by the green bugand decided to stay and have
created a youth farm right hereon campus with a geodesic dome,
oxygen dome, several otherfeatures.
That's very exciting to thecommunity.
That's kind of out of the box,you will, things that haven't
(21:23):
been seen before, where we offernot just health and nutrition
but we also offer yoga, soundtherapy.
You know things of that naturebecause, even as young adults,
stress is a major killer, and ifparticularly in urban core
communities where you have somany challenges we think about.
(21:43):
You know we always think aboutstress and depression that
individuals that are older, butthat's not the case.
You know, some of these childrenhave witnessed some extreme
violence, their friends gettingkilled.
I mean just you couldn'timagine some of the things that
the children shared and some ofthe things that the children
shared and some of the things intheir own household.
So we figured we had to figurea way to address that.
(22:06):
We had to look at topics likegun violence.
You know, when the whole TamirRice thing took place, we
launched a series of comic bookscalled Shoot Hoops, Not Guns.
That went very, very well.
So we've been really, reallyengaged.
And lastly, on our youthprogramming is, what we found is
that peer-to-peer communicationseemed to work a lot better.
(22:28):
And what I mean by that is youknow, I'm blessed and happy.
I'll be 60 years old this year.
I'm very, very happy about that.
But you know, a message from memay generate a little different
to a group of 20-year-olds thananother 20-year-old talking to
a group of 20-year-olds.
Diane Bickett (22:44):
And how old is your son?
Keymah Durden (22:45):
My son.
He'll be 30.
Diane Bickett (22:47):
Okay, what's his name?
Keymah Durden (22:48):
His name is Aharon.
Diane Bickett (22:50):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (22:50):
And he's also named Keymah after me.
Diane Bickett (22:53):
You know so.
So he's leading some of theseinitiatives.
Yes, yes, Wow, that must feelreally good.
Keymah Durden (22:58):
Oh, it feels great it feels, great because
you know the other side of thatis that you get a chance to see
that there is another generationto carry this work on.
Diane Bickett (23:07):
Yes.
Keymah Durden (23:07):
You know we've made quite a financial
investment in this project.
We made personal investments,both physical, spiritual.
I mean we put our heart andsoul here and for us to move on
and do something else and thenthis just rot and fall away
would be a travesty.
So we want to be able to passthat on to the next generation
(23:32):
so that the Red All banner willwave high and long forever,
because people need to eatforever.
People want good food forever.
So having a facility here,right where it's located, I
think is very important for thefuture.
Diane Bickett (23:46):
So you talk about the value of community health
and wellness, gardening You'reproviding for the whole person,
Mm-hmm, and all those things.
It sounds like they allintersect here on your campus.
Greg Rotuno (24:04):
They do.
Diane Bickett (24:05):
And so you're much more than a farm.
Keymah Durden (24:09):
We are, we are, we are yeah.
Diane Bickett (24:12):
What's the prolific oxygen dome?
Is that the?
What is that?
Greg Rotuno (24:18):
well, I don't know if you look on a map.
Diane Bickett (24:21):
You see this.
Yeah, prolific oxygen dome,this name, what is that?
Keymah Durden (24:26):
well, is that where?
Diane Bickett (24:26):
you're doing your yoga and stuff yes, yes it.
Keymah Durden (24:29):
if you heard of a gentleman going way back called
Buck, Mr Fuller.
Diane Bickett (24:35):
Yeah, the geodesic dome guy.
Keymah Durden (24:36):
He's the guy that created the concept.
So it's a smaller version ofthat.
It's designed to circulate airinside to keep, you know, fresh
oxygen going.
So if you're doing yoga, ifyou're doing exercise, you get
the full benefit of it, of itit's solar heated exercise, you
get the full benefit of it.
Of it, it's solar, heated, it'soff the grid, it's almost like a
big yerk, if you will, but itserves so many purposes in terms
(24:59):
of being sustainable.
There's no outdoor power, it'sall solar.
You know, and it's just anexample of what's possible.
You know, a picture's worth athousand words, right, but when
you can see something and touchit, that's worth a million words
now, because you impregnatepeople with an idea that I can
do this also.
So the geodesic dome is anotherway of demonstrating what's
(25:22):
possible, because prior to this,we never really got a chance to
think outside of the box.
You know, everything was sortof scripted.
You know, at least in mygeneration.
You went to high school, youwent to college, you got a good
job, you worked 40 years and youretired, you know, and then
went to a nursing home orsomething.
I don't know what was expected,but God forbid yeah.
(25:43):
God forbid, right and um.
It's a little different now.
And and um.
The world is changing.
You got AI, you got technologyout here, and how do you
integrate the two?
And we know that our youthcomponent is needed to help us
cross that bridge, because rightnow in the world, you can't
exist without the other.
There is a place where you wantto stay.
(26:04):
You don't want to go too techcrazy.
You want to stay, touch theearth.
I mean, we're earth people.
We want to stay grounded there,but we know there are a whole
other system that we got tocommunicate through, and that's
technology.
So we got to learn both.
We're talking with some localfolks about getting some garden
bots here robots.
Diane Bickett (26:23):
Get out.
Keymah Durden (26:24):
That can do weeding and watering.
Send one my way, we thinkthat'll work really good at our
tree nursery too, because that'sthe most labor intensive
activity is watering the treesevery day.
Diane Bickett (26:36):
Well, you make such a good point because all
the stuff, the technology, theAI stuff is really intimidating
for my generation, especiallythe AI stuff.
I mean, no one really knowswhere it's going.
But when you talk about theyouth being that bridge, I think
that's what it is.
(26:57):
That's where it is.
It's important.
It's important.
How do you speaking here's atransition for you how do you
bridge your work with thecommunity?
I understand you took overfarmer jones market so you're
bringing fresh produce to MapleHeights, another inner entering
city, yes, and then you have anevent center here at your
(27:20):
community kitchen.
Tell us about the communitykitchen and what's available
there.
Keymah Durden (27:25):
Yes, the community kitchen was born out
of the idea around health andwellness that we believed and
learned that most individualswant the best.
It's just a matter of can theyafford the best.
So we wanted to make the bestaffordable.
We wanted to also use it as ateaching platform, because many
(27:46):
folks, like I mentioned, I'vebeen a vegan for over 30 plus
years and many folks want to trycertain things, but they're a
little intimidated because theynever tried it.
They don't know how it works,you know they don't know what
tofu is.
Or you know they don't know.
You know they couldn't imaginecooking collard greens without
putting the neck bone in it or aturkey foot or something.
And we bring that type ofeducation.
Diane Bickett (28:07):
You saw my face.
Keymah Durden (28:11):
We bring that kind of education to the
community.
Okay, and education is big.
And I think one thing that'sworth mentioning here as we talk
about the event center and theother aspects of Riddle we tried
to structure it in a way youknow there's a movement called
circularity that you may hearabout now more, and we wanted to
create a model where eachaspect of our work touches and
(28:34):
supports the other aspect of ourwork.
So there's no aspect of what wedo at Riddle that stands alone.
It either feeds, supports ordraws from another area of
Riddle.
So because we grow localproduce, we make soil, so the
soil feeds the growth of theproduce, the produce that we
(28:56):
produce.
We could take that to ourfarmer's market in Maple Heights
to sell, and then anything thatgoes bad we could bring it back
to our farm and compost it.
So what we've done is closed theloop you know in terms of how,
in terms of a business modelloop, in terms of a business
model and we're really beginningto take a deep dive in that, as
(29:17):
some of our staff members arereally beginning to embrace this
idea of circularity to see waysthat communities, cities, how
can we work together in such away that our work builds and
complements on each other, asopposed to working and operating
in silos.
So we've been toying with theterm regenerative agriculture as
(29:40):
different than sustainable.
They have two differentmeanings and connotations.
Regenerative well, no,sustainable means not making the
situation any worse than italready is.
So you want?
Greg Rotuno (29:53):
to sustain.
Keymah Durden (29:54):
You don't want it to get any.
You know you may not be able toimprove it, but you don't want
it to get any worse, so you wantto sustain it.
Regenerative speaks about beingable to restore or make a
situation better than you foundit.
You know, to bring somethingback.
Diane Bickett (30:10):
So you are practicing regenerative farming
here You're creating your blackgold, which is your compost,
that's right.
So that supports the growing ofthe food.
Do you sell that material too?
Keymah Durden (30:22):
We do.
We do this is a busy time ofyear for us we do.
We've added in anothercomponent to our compost.
It's called biochar.
It's produced from a woodproduct through paralysis and we
burn down the woodchar and mixit in with our soil and it's
(30:42):
like activated carbon.
It activates the soil andbecomes a carbon sink.
So it has an environmentalimpact, because we know about
carbon emission, carbon gasesthat are trapped, you know, in
the atmosphere, and there'sreally no, there really hadn't
been any very successful way tobring that carbon down.
And that almost goes back tothe term sustainable, because it
(31:04):
said, all right, well, let'snot put any more carbon out
there, let's not put any morecarbon gases out there, but how
do you bring down what's there?
Diane Bickett (31:10):
So you're sequestering it and that's right
.
Keymah Durden (31:11):
Okay, that's not putting more carbon gases out
there, but how do you bring downwhat's there?
So you're sequestering it.
That's right.
Okay, that's right Interesting,that's right.
Diane Bickett (31:16):
Can you talk about the aquaponics for a
minute?
You're growing tilapia here.
It sounds like it's a big partof your operation.
Is there some things that needto be debunked about fish
farming that you would like totalk about?
Keymah Durden (31:30):
There is.
There's a disclaimer I shouldmake first.
Diane Bickett (31:33):
Okay.
Keymah Durden (31:34):
Before I answer that question and again I keep
mentioning I'm vegan, right.
So when people ask about thefish, I always say one thing I
haven't tasted it.
I say it's the best fish I'venever tasted.
Greg Rotuno (31:46):
Yeah, I know that's so corny but I say it all the
time People are tired of hearingit, but no, it's true.
Keymah Durden (31:54):
So the aquaponics ?
Because, first of all, mybackground is in engineering.
That's what I worked in theengineering aviation space for
over 25 years and just recentlyretired to come on, you know, to
take on the radarresponsibility full time.
And so I'm intrigued byaquaponics because of the
technology involved.
And it's such a simple system.
(32:15):
It's just water that's filteredthrough plants and the plants
take the water as fertilizer andreturn clean water back to the
system.
Diane Bickett (32:26):
Circularity.
Keymah Durden (32:26):
Circularity there it is again at work.
It's all around us and we justnever really paid attention to
it.
It's all throughout nature andso, um, there are.
You hear a lot of things aboutfarm-raised fish.
Um, you hear a lot of thingsabout tilapia.
You know that's a man-made fishand you know all of these
things that we've had to debunkand, um, the one harsh reality,
(32:50):
um, about all of that is thatright now, in 2025, the oceans
have been overfished.
In another 10 years, there'llbe little aquaculture left in
the oceans to supply the humanfamily, so we're going to have
to think about alternative waysto eat to live, about
(33:17):
alternative ways to eat to live.
The aquaponics method is also avery good system for villages
and rural areas, ruralcommunities around the world,
because you could use solar, runa solar pump and you could feed
an entire village of fish on a2,000-gallon tank.
That's very easy to construct,so there is a regenerative
component to it.
In terms of the fish qualityagain, best fish I never tasted
(33:41):
but because the environment iscontrolled, the water is checked
daily.
We control our own feed.
You know we process our ownfish.
You know everything that we dowith our fish.
We control and much of the badrap that the fish gets.
Tilapia in particular, is aroundthe idea that it's a dirty fish
(34:03):
too, and that's because of thatmost of the areas where the
fish is being harvested from youknow you're talking, you know
some of the most polluted watersin the world India, africa,
asia and so you get you knowyou're going to get from the
environment the fish.
You know what the fish bring tothe environment.
So because we have such acontrolled environment, we're
(34:25):
able to really raise a healthy,quality fish that doesn't have
the chemicals, that doesn't havethe pollutants.
And just one last note abouttilapia, for those that really
want to do a deep dive tilapiais just one species of a fish in
the cichlid family Cichlidfamily Cichlid, yeah cichlid,
(34:46):
and for those that ever had anaquarium, you might know what a
cichlid is.
They got convicts, jackDempsey's, and there's a whole
variety of cichlids out there,and cichlids are a fresh water,
warm fresh water fish.
It's not salt water.
So that worked out well for ustoo.
And the most pristine areaswhere they're raised at is in
(35:12):
the Sea of Galilee and in theregion of what's referred to as
the Holy Land.
That area and some rumors sayit's not official I wasn't there
to verify but some say thatthat's the fish that Jesus fed
the multitudes with the tilapia,because it's very indigenous to
that particular area.
Diane Bickett (35:31):
Wow, yes, wow, yes, wow.
Well, I think fish farming hassometimes, you know it gets a
bad rap because you know justlike it might be an industrial
type operation, just like achicken farm could be an
industrial operation, Rightright.
But you're more small scale andclean and it is delicious.
(35:56):
I actually have tasted it itwas.
Keymah Durden (35:58):
It was a testimony.
Diane Bickett (35:59):
Your community kitchen is open on Tuesdays and
Fridays from what time?
Keymah Durden (36:04):
On Tuesdays, from 12 to 2.
Diane Bickett (36:06):
12 to 2.
Keymah Durden (36:07):
And on Fridays from 12 to 3.30.
Diane Bickett (36:09):
Okay, and folks can come down for Taco Tuesday
and then Fish Friday.
Keymah Durden (36:15):
Yep, no reservations required, just come
on down, yeah, just show up, Imean for $10,.
Diane Bickett (36:18):
you get a big healthy portion.
Greg Rotuno (36:20):
Yes, you do.
Diane Bickett (36:21):
It's delicious, and come check out the farm.
Do you offer tours?
Keymah Durden (36:25):
We do.
We do tours on an ongoing basis.
Folks contact us through ourwebsite or via phone.
We schedule tours for schoolgroups, community groups.
We've been working with theCleveland Council of World
Affairs for years Our goodfriend Andrew Kovach over there.
We've brought exchange studentsin groups everywhere, from
(36:49):
China, russia, all throughoutCentral America.
Diane Bickett (36:55):
Wow, show them how it's done.
Keymah Durden (36:57):
That's great we got a group that just came from
China last week and had asession with Dave and talked
about life and farming.
We got a group from Uzbekistancoming soon and because of that
work this is great Because ofthat work, a year and a half ago
we won the Global CitizenshipAward.
Congratulations and we'reinvited to Washington DC to this
(37:17):
big swanky affair, and wereceived our award.
Diane Bickett (37:20):
I hope that comes with lots of money.
Keymah Durden (37:22):
Oh well, we got to turn it into that.
But it does give you the kindof recognition, international
recognition, that's needed toget exposure.
So we're really really happyabout that, okay.
Diane Bickett (37:35):
And you have an um.
Do you want to just touch onyour urban agriculture training
program?
Keymah Durden (37:41):
Yes, yes, our standing um bread and butter has
been our five month trainingprogram.
It starts uh January of everyyear, runs from January through
May and we meet one weekend amonth for five months and each
month is a different topic.
We range from urban farming, wetalk about agribusiness.
(38:03):
It's one of the modules.
We talk about the communityaspects of food because that's
important.
Sometimes people don't thinkabout that as much, but there's
a very important communityaspect to food.
We talk about compost and wetalk about aquaponics.
So each month we teach adifferent module dedicated to
those five topics andthen the students graduate.
(38:24):
We just had a class graduatelast month, about 15 students,
and that's about the range wenormally graduate every year
about 15, 20 students.
Some years the need has been sogreat we've done two cohorts,
so this year we're just going todo one, because we got a lot of
training going on throughoutfrom now to the end of the year.
(38:46):
But it's been very, verysuccessful.
And again, we really hang ourhat on the idea that.
You know, there's a saying thatwhen people know better, they
do better, and sometimes thechallenge is not, you know,
having access, it's just havingaccess to the proper knowledge,
(39:07):
because then it helps allow youto make the proper decisions.
See something?
Diane Bickett (39:09):
they've never seen before.
Do something they've never donebefore.
Keymah Durden (39:12):
Exactly, Exactly.
And because the other thing is,people are making decisions
with their wallet, you know, andnot necessarily with their
stomach or their or their orwhat they want.
So there's a thought thatthere's an educational process
involved in that, where you haveto teach or share information
with people on why and Apple isnot an Apple phone- but a real
(39:37):
Apple, delicious Apple Um.
Why that's?
You know $2.59 a pound.
And then I could go toMcDonald's and get two-off beef
patties.
You know how they go two-offbeef patties.
Greg Rotuno (39:52):
Special sauce lettuce cheese pickles I use a
special received bun for 99cents.
Keymah Durden (39:59):
So if I got a dollar in my pocket, I'm going
to go for the Big Mac, I'm notgoing to go for the apple.
In my pocket, I'm going to gofor the Big Mac, I'm not going
to go for the Apple.
But when you understand why youneed to make that decision and
the long-term effects of thatdecision, then you pause and you
think for a minute.
We got a ton of sayings aroundhere.
Here's another one I'll sharewith you.
It says you're going to eitherpay the farmer or the doctor.
Diane Bickett (40:21):
True.
Keymah Durden (40:21):
You choose, but you're going to pay one of them.
You're going to pay the farmeror the doctor, so we like to
keep that in front of people aswell.
Diane Bickett (40:29):
Yeah, and you're giving them the tools to grow
their own food.
Keymah Durden (40:33):
Absolutely.
Diane Bickett (40:34):
That's key.
Teach a man to fish right.
Keymah Durden (40:36):
That's right, that's right, that's the model.
Diane Bickett (40:39):
Is there anything else you want to share before
we wrap up about, um, justanything we might have missed?
I know I feel like I've beenjumping around in this
conversation because you have somuch going on here yes you have
an international uh presence uhprogram that I mean we may not
(41:00):
have time to get into, but um,like I said, just so much going
on and not enough time to get toit, so maybe we'll have to get
back.
But what did we miss that youwant?
Keymah Durden (41:13):
to leave us with.
I think there's one thing thatfolks miss sometimes and that we
don't even realize as muchuntil you think about it on a
deeper level and even thinkabout the history of people and
communities, and what we'vediscovered is that we really
have a.
We have what we call a culturalresponsibility, and what do I
(41:35):
mean by that is that when youlook at the history,
particularly of AfricanAmericans that came to America
land-based in terms of farming,living on the land, eating on
the land, staying on the landand then the transition that
took place from the greatmigration from the South to the
(41:57):
North and we came into cities,then the whole dynamic changed
and the idea of farming becamesomething like a country or old
I ain't doing that, that's toomuch like slavery and so what
happened is we began to lose, asa community, an essential
survival skill, because everycommunity should know how to
(42:18):
feed themselves.
And when we think back most ofus, like I mentioned, I'll be 60
, so I think to my parents andgrandparents.
They all had gardens in theiryard and I think most of us have
that same type of testimony.
So in some ways, we're payinghomage to our ancestors by
continuing that legacy andcontinuing to learn how to grow
(42:39):
and continue to put our hands inthe soil.
So there's a culturalresponsibility that we have to
pass this information on to thenext generation, because my
grandfather certainly took meout and showed me how to farm.
My dad I went out and learned.
And Dave, one of our majorplayers here at Riddle, he talks
about how his grandmothertaught him how to grow and farm.
(43:00):
So, wherever they may be, inwhatever form they may be in,
they're smiling because they saythey're keeping it going.
Because, you know, we talkedbriefly about technology and
it's moving us away from theland.
It's moving us away from thosethings that are real into a more
virtual reality.
And you know, I'll never getthe same experience of touching
(43:24):
an apple, a golden, deliciousapple, versus holding an iPhone
apple.
I'll never get the sameexperience Because, as a human,
family.
Diane Bickett (43:36):
It's not alive.
Keymah Durden (43:37):
No, it's not.
And as a human family and as ahuman species, we need to
interact with nature, the sourceof our creation, in order to
complete the loop, to close theloop, to feel completed, because
we can't exist without nature,nature can't exist.
Well, nature can't exist withoutus, we can't exist without
nature, and so I just thoughtthat was worth mentioning, in
(43:59):
that, at a very, very deep butyet subtle level, there is this
cultural responsibility that wehave to our ancestors to say
thank you for surviving, thankyou for bringing okra seeds from
Africa and black-eyed pea seedsso we can continue to maintain
at least a diet that we wereused to from the land that we
(44:23):
came from, and thanks to all ofour folks in the community that
still grow and cook those typeof foods, and though we struggle
to find out ways to make themhealthier, about maybe
eliminating some of the oils anddifferent things in the deep
frying, and we know the effectsof that, but the cultural idea
of it is just so important to toto to us at Riddle that we felt
(44:48):
that that was worth mentioning.
Diane Bickett (44:50):
Thank you, Keymah Durden, for sharing that.
Keymah Durden (44:52):
Thank you.
Diane Bickett (44:53):
And for honoring your legacy and for your
creating a legacy of your ownand for all you're doing for the
community.
Keymah Durden (45:01):
Well, I'll throw it right back at you and say
thank you and your team forcoming out and doing this.
I mean, you've been atrailblazer yourself.
You know, shook a few cages,rattled a few doors, but if you
called Diane she was going toget it done.
Thank, you and um.
It means a lot, you know, inthe capacities that you've
touched around, cleveland hasbeen well felt.
Oh, thank you you're, you're,you'll go get her thank you.
Diane Bickett (45:24):
Well, I'm glad we were able to reconnect.
Keymah Durden (45:26):
Yes.
Diane Bickett (45:27):
And I would love to bring a team of EcoSpeaks
listeners down here to volunteersomeday, please do so we will
figure a way to organize that.
Keymah Durden (45:38):
Let's plan that.
Okay, all right, all right?
Diane Bickett (45:40):
Well, you have a great day.
Greg Rotuno (45:42):
Thank you.
Diane Bickett (45:42):
Thank you yeah.
Greg Rotuno (45:44):
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak
CLE.
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Podcasts or wherever you getyour podcasts.
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(46:07):
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