Dive into strategies on how to navigate the rising costs of Meta advertising. The discussion covers making ad accounts more efficient, utilizing data and tracking, and employing psychological and emotional insights for better creative. Key topics include optimizing campaign structures, understanding attribution models, leveraging first-party data, and crafting diverse and effective ad creatives. Listeners also get practical tips on monitoring key performance metrics and a chance to access valuable freebies to enhance their e-commerce marketing efforts. The episode wraps up with a reminder to subscribe, leave a review, and consider booking a strategy call for personalized guidance.01:17 Strategies to Combat Rising Ad Costs
01:31 Phoenix on Data and Tracking
01:39 Sarah on Psychological Driven Creative
01:46 Jessie on Media Buying Process
02:36 Jessie's Background and Experience
03:23 Key Metrics to Monitor
06:26 Improving Ad Efficiency
10:59 Campaign Structure and Setup
15:47 Phoenix on Attribution Models
16:07 Understanding Attribution
16:57 First Click vs. Last Click Attribution
18:33 Linear Attribution
19:38 Full Impact Attribution
21:28 Lighthouse Optimization Model
23:38 Click vs. View Attribution
25:25 Third Party vs. First Party Data
27:05 Unlocking First Party Data
28:29 The Power of Attribution in Advertising
29:48 Understanding Customer Journeys and Creative Strategies
32:37 The Importance of Identity in Creative Advertising
37:32 Effective Creative Testing and Ad Strategies
44:16 Navigating Health and Wellness Advertising Challenges
47:17 Q&A: Creative Testing and Account Structuring
54:00 Freebies and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:07):
You are listening to the E-Commerce Impact Podcast,
where we share the latestmarketing strategies to grow
your e-commerce store and havemore impact.
I have got three amazing humanshere to talk to you all.
So just to introduce everyone.
So Sarah Levenger.
(00:28):
Founder of Tether Insights, theyrun research panels to go after
emotional and psychographic datato make your ads and, and your
marketing perform better.
Phoenix Heart is the founder ofAd Beacon and they make sure
that media buyers make decisionsoff data they can prove.
And I'm gonna introduce myselfjust in a little sec.
But today what we're talkingabout is how do we beat these
(00:48):
the rising costs of meta?
What's happened, Mark Zuckerbergannounced at the, at their
latest earnings call that theyhave increased the average price
per ad by 14 percent year onyear.
That's last quarter compared tothe quarter before.
So that means our cost base hasrisen by 14 percent in a year.
If any of your other cost spacewere rising by that much, you'd
(01:09):
be freaking out.
And to be honest, we need tofreak out about this because
it's not going to change.
It's not going to go away.
We need to all.
we run our ad accounts moreefficiently.
How we make our ads moreeffective, how we have our
setups more effective.
So that we don't just lose moreof our margin to matter.
So today we're each going totalk about a little section of
(01:30):
that.
So Phoenix is going to get downand dirty with how you can use
data and tracking and insight tomake sure that you're making the
best use of your ad accounts.
Sarah's going to talk to youabout how you can make better
psychological driven creativethat performs better and is
therefore more efficient.
And I'm going to talk to youabout a bunch of different ways
that that you can use the actualmedia buying process.
(01:51):
So your campaign set up.
The structure of your campaignsand a few little hacks that you
can use to make sure youraccount's more efficient.
So with that being said, let'sdive in.
If you have any questionsthroughout the presentation,
just chuck them in the chat andwe'll keep an eye on it.
And at the end of each littlesection, we'll go and look at
those.
So let's dive in.
(02:12):
So, oh yes.
And before I before I go on,make sure you say to the end, we
have a bunch of freebies foryou.
If for some reason you do haveto jump off and you're like, Oh,
I really want those freebies.
Just email me.
My email address is right there.
Sorry.
It's a long one.
That's e com growth experts.
com and it's jessie.
healy email me and I will makesure we send you out those
freebies.
(02:32):
So there we have it.
And let's dive in.
So why should you listen to me?
So I am.
I can hear an echo here.
I'm just gonna take myheadphones out.
So I'm the former head ofperformance marketing for Etsy
International.
I have spent over well over 50million on digital advertising
in my career.
I'm an exited e commerce agencyfounder.
(02:54):
So I had an agency for about sixyears in the UK.
focused on e commerce growth andmostly meta ads and a little bit
of Google ads.
I exited that agency and I'm nowan e commerce coach.
I've worked with over a hundredbrands on their meta ads,
helping them to scale.
And I've kind of been through itall with all of them figuring
this whole crazy marketingsystem out.
(03:14):
So that's a little bit about me.
Successfully scaled a bunch ofbrands to seven, eight, and even
nine figures actually.
So what can we do about thissituation?
Campaign structure.
So before we dive into campaignstructure, one thing I wanted to
touch on is that It can be verytempting when you're running
your ads to get like a littlebit too addicted to looking at
(03:34):
kind of those micro KPIs, forinstance, your CPM.
So your CPM is your cost perthousand tells you how much
you're paying per thousand adimpressions.
And it can be tempting as amedia buyer to think that's
risen.
All I need to bring that downand everything else will work.
And actually, I think that's notthe way to approach media
buying.
The way to approach buying is tolook at holistically all of your
(03:56):
data.
Compared, you know, in one, likein a one 360 view and.
You need to ultimately look atlike what's happening to your
revenue and what's happening toyour cost of acquisition, not
just like that kind of onemetric CPM.
So I'm not here today to tellyou all the hacks to, you know,
you can go on YouTube and seeall the hacks on how to lower
(04:16):
your CPM.
That alone won't make your adaccount more efficient because
all of these metrics worktogether.
Sometimes you pay a higher CPM,but it's a better quality
audience that you're reaching.
And therefore you get a lowercost of acquisition.
because you're reaching a betterquality audience with better
advertising and the clicks arebetter.
So don't look at CPM alone, butyes, that is a metric that you
(04:38):
should be monitoring and keepingan eye on because if everything
else is working great and yourCPM alone rises, then that alone
is going to raise your cost ofacquisition.
So that's one metric to watch.
A really important metric towatch is the cost of acquiring a
new customer.
So your total ad budget dividedby your total number of new
customers.
Keep an eye on that metric andthat.
(04:59):
If that's rising, you've got aproblem and you've got something
that you need to fix.
And that's where some of thesestrategies are going to come and
help.
Blended ROAS.
So not just your in platformROAS, your in platform ROAS lies
to you.
And Phoenix is going to talk abit more about this as well.
But you want to look at yourblended ROAS as well.
So look at your like high level,all of the, all of the money
you're spending on ads.
(05:20):
And look at what, what that'sdriving in terms of revenue and,
and work with those two numberstogether.
And don't just look at yourplatform numbers in isolation.
You want to see your totalrevenue.
You also want to look at yournew versus returning customer
numbers.
So if, and this is one of thethings that like we've noticed a
lot with meta over the recentyears is it's, it's pushing more
(05:41):
towards middle of funnel, it'spushing more towards retargeting
and often not bringing you asmany new customers.
So that is a metric you want totrack and you want to track.
Exactly that your traffic, howmuch of your traffic is from new
people versus returning.
So don't let, we said at thebeginning that this presentation
was about, you know, we don'twant to play Zuck's game and
just let him take all our money.
(06:02):
We want to really like dive intothis data and understand what's
actually happening beneath thenumbers.
And if he's just driving you awhole bunch of traffic, that's
already been to your site.
Your account is not going to beas efficient at acquiring new
customers, which is how weachieve growth.
So that's really important.
And also looking at thatincremental revenue.
Okay.
Did I, if I spent more on ads,did I get more revenue?
It's as simple as that sometimesto really understand whether
(06:25):
your.
The way your media buying isworking that being said, here
are some thoughts on how you canlower your CPM or increase the
efficiency of your account isprobably a better way of putting
it.
So one thing I would definitelyencourage you to do is broaden
your targeting.
You may.
Hopefully you're already doingthat.
(06:46):
Hopefully if you follow us, youkind of already know that broad
targeting has been the way for anumber of years now on Meta, but
I can't tell you how many adaccounts I open up to audit
still these days.
And I'll see six differentcampaigns all targeting micro
interests and lookalikes and allthe budget split across a whole
bunch of different campaigns andad sets that is going to raise
(07:07):
your cost.
Trying to niche down in yourtargeting is gonna raise your
costs, make your ad account moreefficient, less efficient, and
generally your ad account'sgonna perform worse.
If you are still doing lots ofmicro-targeting, I encourage you
to consolidate and go broad andcompare what happens.
Look, there are no.
Like there are no one trueanswer and media buying or in
(07:30):
the way you do your marketing,but I would encourage you to
test this at least test itproperly.
Give it a good amount of time torun, get it, give it a good
amount of time to optimize, butbroader targeting is really key.
Consolidate your ad spend.
So again, when I see the budgetsplit between loads of different
ad sets and campaigns, that'swhen I know that the ad account
is inefficient, it's going to bewasting So you want to
(07:52):
consolidate as much of your spinto one campaign, maybe two
campaigns.
And I'll talk about structure ina second, but consolidation is
super, super important.
Another thing to think about,and Sarah's going to talk a lot
about creative and how we canget it to perform better.
But one thing that specificallywill make your your media budget
go further as creative, that's abit more provocative or
(08:12):
interactive.
So you may, if you've been mediabuying for a while, you may have
noticed that when your ad is alittle bit spicy, when it gets a
lot of comments, when it maybemakes.
Pushes a few buttons or triggersa few people, you will get a
better performance from it.
So depending on your brand, youmight want to think about how
can I make my creative a littlebit more spicy, like a little
bit more triggering for somepeople, because that will bring
(08:36):
more comments and more commentsis something that Metta really
loves and Metta will serve yourad more often if it's got more
comments and interactions.
Little hack.
And again, I don't like hacksbecause I don't think that a
solution to everything, but ifyou are suffering from extremely
high CPNs and you've triedeverything else, one thing you
can do is use the post ID ofyour ad and republish it as an
(08:57):
engagement campaign, just forthe purpose of getting all those
comments.
You can also push it out to likeexisting customers.
You know, I have as many peoplecomment on the ad as possible,
and often that will kind oflower the CPM and make that ad
perform better.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is increasing your
conversion rates to improve dataflow, right?
So meta is an algorithm.
(09:17):
It works on data.
If it's got lots of good dataabout who's converting, it's
more likely to be efficient andto work well.
So if your site is notconverting very well, the
traffic that's coming throughthose ads.
is not sending a signal back tometa, then the then the machine
just doesn't work as well.
So we want to make the machinemore efficient by giving it more
(09:38):
data.
So working really hard toimprove your conversion rates is
going to make the whole machinework better and be more
efficient.
So there's a ton of things youcan do.
You can look up resources, etcetera, to improve your
conversion rates.
But really monitor that metricand do as much as you can to
improve it.
Another thing just to thinkabout is using all placements.
So the more control thealgorithm has to be able to
(10:00):
place your ad in many differentplaces, the lower your ad cost
is going to be.
Because if you're restricted tocertain placements, you have to
be more competitive in the, inthe auction.
To be able to compete againstother other advertisers.
Whereas if you have a flexiblead type that, so it's like less
than 60 seconds, so it can runon reels.
It can run on stories, etcetera, if it's size.
(10:22):
So it fits almost everywhere onevery placement, then your ad
account will be more efficientas well.
So all placements as a usefulkind of little hack there, and
then thinking about ad qualityand ad feedback.
So.
You know, balancing what I saidabout being provocative, like
you don't want to be soprovocative that people are
like, Oh, I hate that ad.
I'm hiding this.
I'm reporting it.
(10:43):
You want to be just that littlebit spicy to get some comments
going, but you don't want tomake people angry because ads
that people hate, that peoplegive bad feedback on again, that
will make your ad account lessefficient.
So that's some ideas therearound just.
generally making your accountmore efficient.
The structure and setup I use atthe moment is and this changes,
(11:04):
you know, over time we changethis, but at the moment this is
the structure that's working.
We're expecting some changesfrom Meta in terms of them
forcing us to run everythingthrough ASC.
And that's sort of coming tolight at the moment and rolling
out.
But one of the things I wouldthe, the way that I structure
things at the moment isgenerally I have an ASC for
scaling ads, and that's got allmy best ads, all my best
(11:25):
creative in there.
And then I have one singlecampaign.
Budget optimized campaign fortesting ads.
So and in that campaign, I'lllaunch a new ad set.
Every time I have a new ad test,I'll do micro variations of that
one ad, and I will run each adtest as its own ad set, but I
let the algorithm allocate thebudget between those ad sets.
(11:46):
And then if it, if it doesn'tperform, then I'll turn it off.
And so at any one time I mighthave.
three to 10 different ads beingtested within that CBO.
So it's super consolidated.
It's two campaigns.
Essentially the algorithm ismaking almost all of the media
buying decisions and I'm justfeeding it with new creative all
the time.
So that's the structure I'musing to be super efficient
(12:06):
important watch out and see, andPhoenix, we'll talk a little bit
more about.
I'm going to talk about thiskind of side of things in just a
minute.
But important watch out is payattention to optimizing towards
seven day click one day viewattribution because allowing me
to attribute for that one dayview can sometimes mean meta
pushes out more of your adstowards warm audiences, which
(12:28):
again.
Can make the ad account lookgood, but it's, is it the best
efficient use of your budget ifyou're wanting to attract new
customers and grow your, growyour business?
So something that I look at, ifI'm seeing a lot of the
attribution is going through oneday view, I will change that
sitting and optimize.
Just towards seven day click andsee how my data performs.
See how my account performs.
(12:49):
I've had a lot of successrecently with making that switch
and we're seeing a lot of newcustomers come through as a
result.
Watch out for your new versusreturning customer breakdown.
A meta may be overspending onexisting customers.
So in ASC, you can you can sit anew customer cap, so you can sit
that down really low so thathardly any of your budget is
(13:09):
going towards, sorry, existingcustomer cap So you can see your
budget so that your newcustomers almost all your budget
is going to new customers andyou kept the number of existing
customers that are seeing yourads.
That's a really good thing totake control of to stop me from
just making your ad account lookgood, but not actually driving
your business goals.
Another thing you can do as wellif you're seeing Meta just
(13:32):
spending a lot of the money onyour existing customers is to
test hard exclusion.
So you can upload a list of allyour past customers as a CSV.
You can use the pixel as welland you can tell force Meta to
exclude any of your pastcustomers, your website
visitors, etc.
Generally, you know, we stillwant to give the algorithm some
freedom to target people.
But if we're seeing a lot ofyour budget just going towards
(13:54):
existing customers, these hardexclusions can be something to
test.
And then I guess the other thingI would say is always measure
the impact on total revenuerevenue growth, not just in
platform data.
Or you can use a tool like adbeacon, which is, which Phoenix
is going to talk about in just asec to really understand what's
truly going on in your data,because we cannot trust the
(14:17):
platform data anymore, whichleads me nicely onto part to get
smarter with data and trackingPhoenix, are you.
Are you do you want me to justlike with like I can just go
through the slides.
If you just tell me great,that'd be great, Jesse.
Yeah, and I just wanted to like,just add on to what you said
about your last slide.
So optimize optimizing for sevenday click for seven day, click
(14:37):
one day view.
I've seen both sides, right?
I've seen that one day view candefinitely go to warmer
audiences, but then it does giveyou more reach.
So you have to make a decision.
And then also with the newversus returning breakdown that
actually might go away soon inmeta.
And I hope it does.
To hope it does because I'veplugged in, we've plugged in ad
beacon so many times to accountswhere ASC is saying that it's
(15:00):
actually driving far more newcustomers versus returning.
And then we plug it into adbeacon, which actually has your
customer data.
So we really do know if they'renew versus returning.
I'll know if Sarah Levenger is anew or Jesse Healy is a new
versus returning.
And often those metrics are soskewed and imagine like really
in.
Translated metrics and meta andthey're filling in the gaps
saying it's new versusreturning.
It just becomes a headache.
(15:21):
So everything you said, ahundred percent.
I agree.
Totally.
And yeah, like I said, like it'salways a test, right?
Like nothing is like, this ishow you should do things.
You should test and then youshould use data to see what's
truly going on, which withoutfurther ado, let's, let's jump
into it.
Wait, we don't speak inabsolutes here?
What a strange.
(15:43):
I thought that's what we didhere.
No bros in this.
Got it.
My bad.
Yeah, the agenda for today.
I think it's important to getthe foundation set.
So what is attribution?
We'll go back into view versusclick.
We'll go into third party versusfirst party.
I think these things are reallyimportant to go over before we
go in depth in depth and wewill.
And part of my job is education.
(16:03):
So let's go and educate.
You know, when you go to thenext slide.
So what is attribution?
I think it's a very big word.
It's a scary word for those whodon't know and for those who do,
let's just have a review.
Attribution is basically whogets credit for a sale and or
lead within a given amount oftime.
There's two factors, credit andtime.
And I think people forget aboutthe time factor.
(16:24):
So if you don't mind, go to thenext one.
It's important, actually, if yougo back one more time, it's
important to understand yourcustomer's journey by channel
than scale, because what willhappen is what if you made a
sale and there's all thesedifferent touch points, the
question is who gets credit?
Was it pin or is it?
That's an Instagram, right?
Was it Instagram or was it emailat the very end?
But there were all these touchpoints in between and how much
(16:45):
credit should each one of theseget?
And there's a lot of differentways to go about this and
measure this.
And I just want to walk youthrough the different types that
most people in our industry gooff of and when to best use
them.
So then we can go to the nextone.
So there's a first clickattribution and I'll go into
click versus view in a littlebit, but I definitely think it's
important to just.
Talk about click for right now.
(17:06):
And, and again, it's if youclicked a tangible click.
So in this example, Facebook wasthe first click, right?
So we're going to say there wasa hundred dollars sale.
We're going to give Facebook ahundred percent of the credit,
which is a hundred dollars.
In this case, we call this adiscovery channel.
I apparently can't spell.
So it's a discovery channel.
(17:27):
And this is how people find you.
The first touch is thisassumption that that's the first
time they've actuallyinteracted, right?
The view aside is maybe you sawit, but let's just say
interaction via click.
In this case, it was Facebook.
So some people would say, firstclick, 100.
Go ahead to the next one if youdon't mind.
This is just the inverse.
You can, we can go here.
It's fine.
(17:47):
This is the inverse.
So let's just say Pinterest isthe last click.
So we just negate all the onesprior to that.
Pinterest is the 100 sale.
And we say, okay, this is theone that people click done right
before the purchase.
If you were a brand, often wemake the mistake of saying, I
only care about last click, butthat's like going on a date and
(18:08):
saying that the end result,which is the relationship.
The marriage just magicallyhappened.
There were dates that happenedprior to that conversations that
happened prior to that, that ledto the commitment of the sale,
the commitment of the sale ofthis ring, right?
So that is the idea behind it.
And I just want to put intocontext, if we always just go
off of last click, you have toremember there was a journey
(18:28):
that led to it.
So take it with a grain of salt.
This is a good conversionchannel.
But if we go to the next one,this is going to be linear
attribution.
Linear just says, well, I wantto give everybody the same
amount of credit, right?
So even if Facebook had twotouches in the whole point or in
the whole journey, it's stillgoing to get that incremental
(18:49):
credit.
Right.
So this is really important inorder to give it the right
credit to proportion to theamount of clicks.
And people use this.
I suggest using this in terms ofreporting omni channel.
Now, if you're just one specificchannel, right, you only
advertise on Facebook and youbarely do anything on organic,
then probably Facebook's what'sdriving all the sales or meta,
(19:11):
if you want to call it that.
But if you diversify your stack,it gets very complicated.
Very quick.
And this is a good way tounderstand the purpose.
So, right.
If in this case, theconversation I would have is
Facebook's a really greatintroductory channel.
It looks like take talk is theone that really gets people to
convert the last step, but lookacross the way people are
searching around.
(19:32):
You don't mind go to the nextone and oh, one more.
So this is interesting to mebecause this is full impact
attribution.
The most common question I getasked is why is Facebook so
wrong then?
They're so smart.
Why do you think you've solvedit and They haven't solved it.
(19:56):
It's a lot there and we'll gointo that.
But I think when it comes downto it, it says full impact
attribution.
This model I'm about to teachyou is the closest attribution
model to meta, and I will showyou the problem with it.
Facebook, Pinterest, Snapchat,all these platforms want the
credit for the sale.
Why?
Because they want you to spendmore money on their platforms.
(20:16):
It's very simple.
And the problem with this isfull impact says every single
touch point with 100 percentcredit.
But I told you there was onesale and it was just a hundred
dollars.
But if we use this model, everysingle one of these touch points
will say a hundred dollars.
And at the end of the day, whatdo we 1, sale that didn't
happen.
So how many times do you go intoyour Shopify WooCommerce
(20:38):
BigCommerce store and it saysyou made 25, 000 met at all
these platforms are like, I madeyou 25, 000.
Each of them said that.
So now we made how much?
Really made way more.
No, we didn't.
And this is a big problem.
This is just one of the aspectsthat I think is hyper inflating
the revenue that's that'sreported in these platforms.
I had a fever dream one night.
(20:59):
And it was like in the middle ofthe night, all my clients were
like, okay, Phoenix, you've gotfirst, last linear and full
impact.
Like, which one do I use to makedecisions?
These are great, but like whichone?
And I couldn't answer thatquestion confidently, which was
really frustrating to me becauseI didn't want to rely on just
what Meadows was, which is fullimpact.
We know it's inflated.
So in the middle I woke up, myhusband's like, who cares when I
(21:22):
told him this?
And I was like, look, what if Itook linear, but I made it just
by channel.
So.
If I know that Facebook onlycares about its hand in the
sale, fine, because you have tostill make decisions in the
Facebook platform, right?
What if I just said, I only wantto know the touch points that
Facebook had in the ultimatesale at the end of the day, but
(21:42):
I wanted to give it proportioncredit.
So the idea is that if I'm justdoing Facebook, I'm going to
eliminate all the other.
Channels like Snapchat, Google,Pinterest, et cetera.
And I'm going to give itfractional credit based off the
amount of clicks to that ahundred dollars sale.
So here there's two touchpoints, Facebook, it's 50
credit.
The first click second click is50 credit because you can only
(22:04):
control.
What you have access to.
And we have access to trueconversion data on the back end
of Shopify, WooCommerce orBigCommerce.
I want to know how much Facebookhelped for that with these
clicks.
So Lighthouse optimization isnot a proprietary attribution
model.
It's just simply an optimizationmodel we created to show you,
(22:24):
Hey, this is the actual impactit had.
And I'm very, very much advocatefor this.
And this has been my heartbeatfor some time.
There's the next question ofcontention.
But Phoenix, views have a lot ofweight.
You can't tell me that you'renot going to make any decisions
off of views.
I'm like, I didn't say viewmetrics.
I said view attribution.
There's a two very differentthings.
(22:46):
View metrics are like how longsomeone viewed your ad.
And I know Sarah's going to goin depth with this as well.
How long someone viewed your adclick through rate hook rates,
which is, you know, synonymouswith thumbstop ratio.
These are all metrics.
These are hard metrics that metaprovides that are not biased.
View attribution is what did Isay?
Getting credit for a lead or asale within a given amount of
(23:08):
time.
That blend of metrics is likeyour protein powder.
It's proprietary.
It's their secret sauce.
You don't know what that is andthat's a problem.
So imagine it could be yourgrandmother watching a, an ad
for a certain amount of timemixed in with X, Y, Z metrics.
You don't know what that is andthere's no way to prove it.
And each, I would say Google,Pinterest, Snapchat, all of them
(23:31):
have different definitions ofwhat view attribution is.
So now imagine trying to put allthose things in one basket and
make a decision.
That's a joke.
So I say there's viewattribution versus click
attribution.
Which one should we go after?
I am a huge advocate of clickattribution because now I can at
least make a decision.
Great.
So I like to make this analogy.
(23:52):
I'm driving down SunsetBoulevard.
I live in LA.
So ish.
So this is pertaining to me.
Let's just say I saw an ad of aGlamnetic since they're under
some fire right now.
I love that.
Glamnetic is an eyelash company,right?
The magnetic eyelashes.
I see a billboard.
Okay.
Saw the billboard.
Then I saw a YouTube video, butI never clicked on anything,
(24:13):
right?
Because you can't click onanything from a billboard unless
you have like a specific code ora specific link that's only
attributed to viewing thatbillboard.
Same with a YouTube video.
I'm not going to say thebillboard didn't sway me.
I'm not going to say the YouTubevideo didn't sway me, but it
didn't make any actions.
But then I saw a Facebook adabout Glamnetic and I clicked on
it.
And then I viewed it on Tik TOK,but then at the very end I
(24:35):
clicked on, you know, Googlesearch in ad beacon.
We only care about the Facebookad and the Google click, right?
The Google search click.
But the thing is, is if I, Thinkabout Billboard, YouTube and
TikTok.
How much weight should that get?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Just because they viewed itdoesn't mean that they actually
made some type of tangibleaction to convert.
(24:56):
So you can only make decisionsoff of data you can prove.
And click is clear because thedefinition of click is the same.
Everywhere is a tangible action.
So what we decided on a longtime ago is just click.
And this is why I reallyadvocate for just having seven
day click in meta as well, andstill that is handcuffed.
There's some issues to dataprivacy and security.
(25:18):
We're not able to see as manyattributed orders.
So that's why ad beacon isreally helpful, but I will tell
you that is a good step in theright direction.
Now, let me kind of explain toyou the impacts of third party
data.
So we consider.
Meta, a third party app and weconsider your data first party
data because that's your data.
(25:38):
So this is the diabolical issuewe are going through right now.
If you are working with largebudgets, large budgets, or if
you're inching your way to getto large budgets.
Here's the problem.
Your platform is going to tellyou you made 746, 000, all these
platforms, if you actually addedit up.
And if you're an agency andyou're, you're reporting to your
(25:59):
brand and you're, if you're thebrand, you know, this pain, it
doesn't make sense because inGoogle analytics now it's saying
548, 000, but then your e comstore says we only made 474,
000.
Which one do we actually careabout?
It should be the one in red.
We should only care about the474 because that's the one that
you put at the bank account atthe end of the night.
You feed people, you put moneyon people's tables with this.
(26:22):
It's food, right?
That's the analogy that is soimportant.
And if everything doesn't add upat the end of the day to your e
comm store, what are we doing?
And I think that's the mostimportant takeaway from this.
When you use third party data,you're driving in the dark with
your eyes closed.
A lot of people are saying,we're just going to make do with
what we have.
(26:42):
Okay.
Here's what you have a hugeinflation of metrics that are
going to hurt you at the end ofthe day and responsible media
buyers.
Like Jesse are going to guideyou in the right direction.
It's a sobering truth.
You can't have flawed data.
You can't have inconsistentreporting.
And how are you supposed tooptimize campaigns?
How are you supposed to makedecisions if you can't prove
(27:03):
anything?
So this has been a hugeheartbeat of mine.
I'll show you what first partydata unlocks.
So I have strayed away fromsingle source of truth.
So I apologize for putting thison there.
I think that it is a source oftruth just because.
I don't want to sit withabsolutes anymore.
This is a new era guys, buttracking is a one to one
connection with ad beacon.
(27:23):
We're able to really show youevery step.
So if you see here, likereported row as versus what
we're seeing, you can see on theright hand side that Roberto,
he's not real.
I promise he.
Well, maybe he clicked on allthese things, right?
Here's a Google ad.
Here's a Facebook ad.
I can feel with confidence thathe had a journey that led me
there.
And now I can make decisions andI feel good about him.
(27:45):
And especially if you're a mediabuyer, you can speak to your
clients confidently.
And if you're a client, you cansee it confidently and you can
move on with that reporting.
So these are really importantthings to take note of what it
opens up.
Everything is connected in oneplace.
Optimization, customer journeys,LTV reports, clear channel
breakdowns.
You need everything in oneplace.
(28:05):
And that's why the first part ofthe data that you have unlocked
so much.
And it just needs to be put intoa system that makes sense.
So The last component, the lastslide is, I just want to show
you what first party datareally, really, really does
unlock.
And I think that what'simportant for us to make
decisions off of is people needto ask, like, why are people
winning?
And Sarah and I talked aboutthis a couple weeks ago.
(28:27):
It's like, everyone's sayingthey're winning right now.
Not everybody's winning, but thepeople who are somewhat winning
are using platforms likeAdBeacon because you can't
Confidently scale without thistype of proof.
So if you see right here the wayyou would look at this is ad
name says police week, right?
You can see the amount spent, etcetera.
But if you click on that littleshopping cart, you can actually
(28:50):
see that Eddie W bought at thistime.
These were all the clicks thatled him to the sale.
And this was the product that hebought.
And we'll also know his contactinformation.
It unveils so much because nowwe'll know, is Eddie a new
customer?
Is he a returning customer?
Is your best customer?
Is he your worst customer?
And then it just unlocks somuch.
So I just, at the end of theday, my heartbeat for you is if
(29:11):
you're spending money onplatforms, at least have some
proof.
But yeah, that's, that's all Ihave to talk about.
Just a little, little, littletouch of attribution.
Love it.
Does anybody have any questionsfor Phoenix before we move on to
the next section?
Cool.
Awesome.
Alrighty.
You answered everything.
It's all clear.
(29:32):
All attrition, guys.
Yeah, I mean, I think as I canjust echo like what Phoenix has
been saying like.
If you're looking only atplatform data, you really are
just operating so blind.
So it's yeah.
Alrighty.
So Sarah, over to you.
How can we get smarter withcreative to make our ad accounts
work better to make our adbudget go further?
(29:54):
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Creative obviously is myfavorite thing.
I'm going to echo a little bitof what Phoenix said.
I think it's incrediblyimportant nowadays to understand
that the customer journey is notlinear, like it's never, ever
going to be step one, step two,step three, all the way over to
purchase.
And I think most marketersnowadays know that, but one of
the things that I see in the adaccounts, which I find kind of
funny, our ad creative does notreflect that belief almost at
(30:16):
all.
Almost everybody that I workwith specifically when they come
to me for research orunderstanding their consumers
from an emotional and likepsychographic standpoint, almost
every single one seems tostruggle with the same problem.
Sarah, we're rinsing andrepeating the same message over
and over and over.
And we don't know how to get inmore customers at top of the
funnel.
This seems to be a big problemthese days for both large scale
(30:37):
and small scale brands.
I've seen nine figure brandswith this problem, and I've seen
startups with this problem.
Everybody seems to like strugglewith it in some capacity.
And I think it's because we haveforgotten as marketers what our
job actually is.
So in general, when we're tryingto get customers into a brand,
(30:57):
all we are trying to do is buildsomething that resonates deeply
with them as a person.
So your creative needs to beable to be a mirror.
You have to be able to reflectwhat that person is outside of
your ecosystem so that by thetime they do start to get into
your ecosystem and they followyou on Tik TOK, or they click
something on Pinterest, or theygo over to Facebook and click on
(31:19):
your ad, they already aligned sowell with you that they can't
help it.
So I just did a training todaywhere I was blowing some
people's minds.
One of the best examples of thisis Pixar, Disney, game of
thrones the Simpsons, right?
All of these different.
Pieces of content, these brandsthat were created were created
(31:39):
on content and the content was ahundred percent built just so
that people could enjoy it.
When Simpsons first started,they didn't have merchandise to
sell.
They didn't send anybody to awebsite.
They didn't even have anymerchandise in production.
All they did for years wascontinuously produce something
that people could enjoy,something that people could come
in and actually consume, right?
(32:00):
Pixar is the same.
Disney is the same.
Game of Thrones is the same.
All of these different entitiesfocused on creating something
that people could consume andbecome a part of their identity
so that when it came time forthem to produce merchandise and
sell to this audience, peoplecouldn't handle, like they
couldn't stop themselves frompurchasing.
(32:21):
So, How do we do this increative?
How do we actually make a gooddeep connection with a customer
who either knows a lot about usor doesn't know anything about
us in an ad account whereeverything is too expensive and
we're competing across the boardwith way too many people?
How do we do that?
Very first thing you got to knowis how people actually make
purchases.
So from the core of a human.
(32:43):
Everything is built off of youridentity, which is usually
typically arranged within thefirst seven years of your life.
After that, you basically justpractice everything that you
have been taught in those coreyears, and it just becomes kind
of a part of your person as youget older and older and older
identity is at the core ofeverything.
Now I focus heavily on identitywhen it comes to creative,
primarily because identity shiftthroughout the day.
(33:07):
So oftentimes you'll find thatMetta will just, woo, spend all
of your budget randomly withinthe first three hours of the
day.
And you're like, what the hell?
Like I had all of thesedifferent parameters set.
You shouldn't have done that.
Metta is going to do thisrandomly because again, it's
going after who it thinks isgoing to purchase from you.
Who it thinks is going topurchase from you.
Not who might actually purchasefrom you, but just like it's
(33:29):
trying its best to try to weaveits way through this web of
consumers.
Right?
So what we're doing now is wegot to start to pull back in
control on our side and go afteridentities and people, because
we don't have control over whereour ads go as soon as they get
into the system.
They go where they go,especially if you're doing
things correctly and you have itset up to capture the widest
audience, they're going to gowhere they go.
(33:50):
So the very first thing we needto do, figure out which
identities are we trying toactivate?
Cause like I said, differentidentities will come up at
different times of the day.
For instance, Sarah has severalidentities.
I'm a mom.
That's one identity.
I hold, I'm an entrepreneur.
That's another identity I hold.
I'm a wife.
That's the third identity Ihold.
These are cores, right?
Secondary identities might be, Ilove humorous things.
(34:12):
Anything that has a cat meme init, I'm probably going to laugh
at just because that's part ofmy identity.
I also love cooking, right?
That's a part of my identity.
That's a secondary identity.
So over time, as you start toget to know your customers
better through primarilypictorial surveys, which is the
way I prefer to get thisinformation, but.
If you go through and you digdeep enough, you can figure out
(34:32):
which identities your customershold and start to blend them
together so that we can qualifypeople better so that no matter
what time of the day Meta isspending to try and get
customers in, we're going to hitthe right identity every time.
That's the key.
To good creative this year.
And obviously creative is thebiggest lever we have.
It's also the easiest way tokeep your costs low across the
(34:56):
board.
If you can qualify someonebetter at the top, they will
become more attached to you atthe bottom.
And this is something I saw on,on Twitter.
I don't know if you saw thisPhoenix, Jesse, you probably saw
this too.
There was a couple of different,very large scale brands this
week that wrote huge threads on,like, I don't know what's going
on.
Meta seems to be only pulling inpeople from the bottom of the
funnel.
(35:16):
Like we just, our costs arerising and they're like, freak
it out.
And I was like, well, it'sbecause you're only rinsing one
identity.
Yeah.
Feel bad.
No, no dig on that.
But like, you can't go after thesame customer over and over and
over and over and over andexpect your business to grow.
That's not how businesses grow.
You have to open your TAM.
You've got to get into differentmarkets.
(35:37):
There are millions of differentpeople that could purchase your
product for tons of differentreasons.
If you activate the identity atthe top of your creative, by the
time they get to this, thisportion of purchasing, they will
already have adopted you as apart of their identity.
And they'll become customers forlife.
I digress.
This is why I love what Phoenixdoes because she's tracking
(35:58):
customer journey journeys,people.
There's everywhere.
So one of the best ways to dothis is to go after like I said,
I, I run pictorial surveys totry and figure this out mostly
because on the picture side,humans are built to think in
pictures.
We have to actually be taughthow to think in language but as
babies from birth, you are,you're a picture thinker.
(36:19):
So if you're running any sort ofsurvey, if you're running any
sort of quiz, first thing youneed to do is try really hard
not to ask questions that aregoing to lead answers or make it
biased.
You also need to shift over totry to, to get more of that
emotional data out by servingpeople a way that like, it makes
it easier for the brain toemotionally think, first of all.
After you get that data out,then we're going to segment
(36:43):
down.
So every piece of creative youhave needs to go towards a
specific identity of person, oneat a time.
Right.
So we're going to talk to mom,Sarah, we'll talk to
entrepreneurial Sarah, and we'lltalk to like wife, Sarah,
separately in the ad account.
Once you start to see one ofthese take off where it's like,
dang, entrepreneur Sarahresponds really well to our ads.
Then I could segment furtherdoes entrepreneur Sarah and
(37:03):
humorous Sarah.
Does that fit better?
Because now I can blend thosetwo together and drop my costs
lower and lower and lower.
Creative is actually really easyguys.
It's really, really easy toproduce good creative.
If you know, your customer isdown to like the bottom of
themselves to the point whereyou can understand if we blend a
message that goes toentrepreneur Sarah, with a funny
(37:27):
something cat meme, she's goingto respond.
Cause that's just, okay.
So.
Protests on how to do this.
I think as if you have likesmall budget or if it's
incredibly difficult for you toget good creative, like I don't
have a creative team.
I'm doing this all by myself.
I'm just like a lone founder outhere trying to like, just swim
through the dark waters.
Best thing that you can do isget on the phone with a customer
(37:48):
if you can and talk to themabout their experience.
Now, this is something I tellpeople constantly, every
community, every single market.
On the planet has very specificexperiences that pertain to just
that topic.
For instance, as a mom, I had, Ipersonify my kids all the time.
When they were babies, I wouldgive them voices and I would
like talk to myself as talkingto the baby all the time.
(38:10):
Every mom I know has done this.
They'll personify their baby.
Similarly, my husband's into 3Dprinters and hockey and all
kinds of different things.
There are specific experiencesthat that community has that
only that community would know.
For instance, he's into hockey,but it's beer league hockey,
which I didn't know this, butbeer league hockey is apparently
like a different breed of hockeyplayer.
(38:31):
They're, they're very kind ofmacho dudes, but they're also
just like, they don't care likeliterally at all.
They just go out there becausethey enjoy like fighting for an
hour and then they come off andthey all have a beer together.
Very strange experience.
But in general, if I was a beerleague hockey guy and I saw an
ad for a hockey stick or hockeygloves or hockey anything that
could show that experience.
(38:53):
Very quickly can I connect withthat and start to click through
the ecosystem, right?
I think it's important for us torealize that in paid advertising
We are actually competing harderwith people's levels of
inattention than attention ifyou could create that good
connection great But oftentimeswe're competing with people's
inability to concentrate.
We're also competing withindifference People are more
(39:17):
indifferent to us than they arelike interested in the entire
industry, right?
So in general, when we start tocreate good pieces of creative,
I want you guys to go study yourcustomer, get on the phone with
them, get a survey going,understand who they are and ask
questions about what they do intheir life outside of your
brand, your industry, what yousell.
(39:37):
Secondary to that, I want youguys to go study organic
content.
Organic creators are incrediblygood at telling stories, at
keeping attention, captivatingaudiences, and building massive
followings that help them sellwhat they're selling.
Very first thing they did thoughwas create content.
They don't sell anything.
Inside what they're doing forvery long periods of time.
(39:59):
Often if you rise from like zeroto like millions and millions of
followers, you just did itbecause you liked creating the
content and you were kind offunny.
Right.
Or you had something very oddthat you were doing that people
just couldn't get enough of.
So go get on the phone with acustomer.
Get some of that emotional data,understand their lifestyle
outside of the actual adaccount.
Go study organic content.
Please just scroll for a littlewhile and see what these people
(40:20):
are doing.
See what captivates you, right?
Oftentimes it's the sound thatstops people faster than the
actual video does.
Prioritize sound, especially onvideo.
And the last thing that I wantyou to do is once you have all
this data, you understand, like,here's some stories that I can
definitely work off of.
Here's what I know about mycustomer.
Then when you go into the adaccount and start building your
actual creative in there, youneed to have a wide range.
(40:43):
Of ad types.
So you don't have, or you don'tend up having to do what the big
brands are doing is like, we'verinsed the same message to the
same exact audience for the lastfour years, and now it's not
working anymore.
And we had nothing could work.
You got to expand out yourcreative types.
I'm not talking format, by theway, format has nothing to do
with this.
Format is not a strategy.
Selecting format is not astrategy.
(41:05):
Your strategy needs to cometogether.
with selecting the right type ofcreative.
So, I typically run fourdifferent types of creative in
the ad accounts.
Top levels almost always triggerevents.
So we're talking to, Sarah, didyou just lose your job?
Sarah, did you just have a baby?
Sarah, did you just move?
Like, talk about what'shappening in their life.
Secondary is exploration ads.
(41:25):
This is to the customer whoknows a little bit about the
industry, but hasn't, hasn'tgotten to the point where
they're ready to purchase.
So exploration ads are a lot ofthis style of ad where we talk
about the actual experience.
Like one day she was going toher mom's house and she had a
really hard time because, like,her shoes just didn't, like, fit
right and she really wanted somecomfortable walking shoes that
didn't look ugly or like oldgrandma.
Those are the type ofexploration ads where we're just
(41:47):
telling stories, right?
Evaluation ads are where almostevery brand on the planet lives,
and these drive me crazy.
Evaluation ads are typicallylike, we have a sale, last
chance, limited time offer, 30percent off.
Evaluation ads are fine, butplease don't make your entire ad
account evaluation ads.
They need to be just asubsection of that.
And then the last section shouldbe purchase ads.
(42:09):
These are the ones that aredirect.
This sale is going to end in 24hours.
Black Friday sale only we'regoing out of business.
I don't care what you're sayingat the bottom though.
Those are the purchase ads.
Again, every brand I see livesin like this evaluation
purchase.
They don't expand out into theexploratory.
Let's just tell a cool story or,or upwards to the funnel where
(42:31):
it's just trigger ads, wherewe're just talking about the
experiences of everyday people,four different types of ads in
the ad account.
And typically I try and runthese year round.
If you see an ad that was in theexploratory phase start to drop
off, replace it.
If you see an ad that'ssomewhere in like the upwards of
the trigger event phase,fatigue, replace it.
(42:53):
Don't just say, Oh, those don'twork.
We got to go back after these,like just hardcore sales.
You're going to rinse theaudience too much and then
you'll end up just burning outyour customer base.
Get on the customer.
Please do that.
And then go through and actuallybuild some sort of a base of
like consumer research, right?
So you can refer to itconstantly.
Get yourself a resource forthat.
Study the organic content.
(43:14):
Make sure you're going throughand actually understanding what
do we actually compete with?
Cause we compete with a lot ofindifference and a lot of
organic.
That's what we're actuallycompeting with.
And then last on here, run fourdifferent types of ads year
round in the ad account.
You got to get some diversity inthere.
Not with format.
But with type, right?
Type of ad so that we can startto create some good wins.
(43:34):
So in general, my company,Tether Insights, we only study
consumers.
That's all we do.
And all of it is running towardseither emotional or
psychographic data.
So I pull in all of this dataspecifically for your audience,
your industry, and their beliefsabout themselves, about the What
they think about the world, likehow they get resources, how they
gain success.
So if you're interested inlearning more about your
consumers, you can always cometalk to me.
(43:55):
But in general, the more we knowabout consumers, the better
content we can create, the morecontent you create and the more
identity focused it is, the morethey'll consume it and the more
they'll buy.
Do you think Sarah, like, andthis is a great conversation.
I know I'm going a little offthe cuff guys.
Sorry.
We've got time for it.
It's amazing.
(44:16):
So with the health and wellnessrestrictions right now, I just
feel like, yeah, this is, thisis a topic health and wellness
with all the restrictions, youknow, the.
The recommendations have alwaysbeen like, okay, now we have to
do only top funnel efforts.
Like brain awareness campaignskill me.
I hate brain awarenesscampaigns, but it made me think
of you, Sarah, in the sense ofjust speaking to customers
(44:37):
directly.
Like I do think that content andcreative is king.
Therefore it, it basically doesthe targeting for you.
But what were your, what areyour thoughts, Jesse and Sarah?
Because both of you Sarah forright now, both of you, I have
my thoughts on the trackingside, which I'll go into in a
minute, but I want to hear yourson the creative.
(44:58):
Yeah I, meta has beeninteresting lately and I've
gotten a lot of supplementbrands who come in and say we
weren't affected at all.
And I've had some come in andsay we're dying.
We're never going to be asupplement brand again.
So we got to figure this out.
When it comes to identity callit, calling out a specific
identity.
The only way I've ever seenbrands do this is to actually
directly go after it where theysay, are you a 30 somethings
(45:18):
woman who wants to lose weight?
I get nervous when that happensbecause I'm like, Ooh, that's
incredibly forward.
Also, it makes it very, verydifficult for you to pull back
on what you're claiming.
Right.
Because you, you told her at thebeginning, are you looking to
lose weight?
Some of those elements are goingto come into play when meta
starts flagging stuff, becauseyou're qualifying intensely
(45:40):
instead of just going after herperson.
If that makes sense, like we'regoing after her.
Like, very intense issue, likeher need.
So, I, again, I, I default tolet's qualify people by
understanding the experiencethat they're going through.
Not by just asking, are you thisspecific person with this
specific need?
(46:01):
On the meta side, yeah.
Do you want to run with yourkids?
There you go.
That's identity focus.
Yes.
Right.
Like there's ways to get aroundit because you actually can't
address it, especially with likea HIPAA compliant specific
account because I've worked withthose too.
But anyway, Jessie, what areyour thoughts with like health
and wellness and all that andtargeting?
Oh God.
Yeah.
It's really, it's a minefieldbecause it's weird.
(46:23):
I've had, I've got a brand thatsells like menstrual cups that's
been classified as health andwellness.
And it's like, what the hell?
That's makes no sense.
That's no disease related tobeing a woman as far as I know.
Yeah, I mean, we just have tokind of, we just have to kind of
keep seeing what happens.
And I, my hope is that meta willslowly get through and
(46:45):
recategorize people.
Correctly.
And that might, what I hope iswhat people have said is that
Meta doesn't want us toadvertise specific diseases
because that identifies ourpersonal data related to that
disease.
But if they were not selling aproduct that's specifically
calling out a specific disease,we should be able to get that
(47:05):
categorization removed andtherefore run as normal.
But the problem is Meta is like,You know, it could take a year
or more to get yourcategorization.
Correct.
So that's what we're fightingagainst.
We have got a question here fromOrrin about how do you structure
the account for connecting withyour creative?
So if you only have one campaignwith one, AFC, ASC, he's noticed
(47:26):
that sometimes Meta just grabshold of one creative.
Yeah.
So the way I get around that andlike Sarah Phoenix, you guys
might have some thoughts on thistoo, but as generally I don't
recommend just having ASCrunning.
So I would have a separatecampaign, which is for testing.
We're putting budget towardsthat testing.
And in that campaign, we havedifferent ad sets testing your
(47:47):
different creative.
And I have found that Meta ismore likely to test that
creative and like roll throughall of those different creatives
than it is in ASC.
And then the winning creatives,we'll move them into ASC.
And generally when you've gotlike a full funnel of creative
inside ASC.
You will see like those morestorytelling kind of ads will
get some of the budget and thenthe kind of bottom of funnel ads
(48:09):
will get some of the budget too.
So naturally that kind of funnelsystem, it should work inside
ASC, but it doesn't always.
So sometimes you have to thencreate additional campaigns, but
yeah, what in terms of thetesting and getting those
multiple different creatives outfor testing, I recommend doing
that inside a CBO.
So campaign budget, multiple adsets.
(48:30):
Each ad set is a differentcreative test.
You might have multiple likemicro variations within that ad
set.
That's how I'm doing it at themoment.
Again, every account isdifferent.
You might have differentmethods.
I don't know if Sarah andPhoenix, you guys have thoughts
on like how we make sure.
The new creative gets tested andalso the kind of different types
of creative get kind of play inthe ad account.
(48:53):
Yeah, I'll jump in.
I never creative test and we'llsee anymore.
Case study being I had anaccount that I did one ASC test
campaign and then one scalingcampaign with just one ASC with
catalog specific or DPA andevery single time the catalog
one.
Every single time and then itwould just demolish the
(49:13):
creative.
But then if I hadn't in an ABOor CBO, it would be like
flourishing.
So what I do is I scale with ASCand I test with CBO or ABO.
I know Mitch Barham is in thechat.
I don't know if he's.
still here, but he does the samething.
We talk about this all the time.
We do a live on Tik TOK and wetalk about, he hates ASC
audience or advantage plusaudiences because they just
don't work for him.
(49:34):
And you just have to be verycareful if you're running an
entire account on ASC because,and I'm, I know that we're
inching our way towards that,but, But yeah, I don't know if
you have thoughts around it, butI, I'm like in a weird crack in
the industry.
Cause like I'm a consultant, soI see a lot of weird stuff.
So I, I, I get into theseaccounts and some of them are
running entirely ASC.
(49:55):
I see some accounts that arerunning entirely on just dynamic
creative.
Some of them are split out stillby a testing campaign, a scaling
campaign, and then just like arando campaign.
Like the interesting part is Ithink.
We need to remember that as muchas Meta is like training
customers to come in and get ourads and like click and buy,
customers are training Meta aswell.
The actual ad account, liketheir behavior is training our
(50:17):
algorithm to prefer a specifictype of creative.
So.
Some of these ad accounts thatI've been in keep saying, well,
Sarah, we can't run staticsbecause our ad account will only
take video.
That's mostly because your rinseand repeat method has trained
the algorithm to only findpeople that like video.
So in general, I think itwhatever works for the brand, I
(50:39):
think is kind of the importantpiece here is whatever setup is
getting you sales is probablythe best setup for you.
I don't think there's typicallyone right setup.
Because at some point your setupis going to fatigue and you'll
have to just shift things andchange it.
You'll have to do thatcontinuously.
So keep, keep, I hate that word,but like keep testing.
Cause yeah, I mean there's likeprinciples, right?
(50:59):
Like don't go super micro andsplit your budget across a
million different ad sets, butyou might have to if your ad
account is behaving in that wayof like just pushing to a
certain creative type.
Then you might have to have morecampaigns than maybe like the
best practice advisors.
And you just have to look at thedata, follow it, see how your
(51:19):
account performs and kind oflike hack your way through it in
a way to get the results thatyou, you need to get.
And someone asked about how, howare we measuring like the
different types of creative?
And I said, ultimately themeasure is like the whole
account.
Level ROAS, right?
Or if we have something likeAdBeacon, you'd be able to look
at that and see like from metaas a whole, how is my CPA and my
(51:42):
ROAS, because all of thosedifferent campaigns and
different ads are contributingin different ways to an
ultimately an end result.
So Sometimes looking at theindividual ad performance can be
like, not very productive.
And you want to just look atlike, okay, with this whole
setup and with this set of ads,how is my account performing?
Oh, just just revved me up.
(52:03):
I'm so excited.
What would happen all the time?
And this is just like, I don'tknow, maybe like certain types
of people are just like, Verymeticulous like I am.
So I had an account where, okay,so often we as media buyers will
take one creative and we willduplicate it multiple times in
an account like 15, 16 timesacross so many different
(52:23):
audiences.
So ad sets, et cetera.
And what we might change in avariable is copy headline,
right?
But, or they could be the exactsame and then you use post ID,
et cetera.
Anyway, my point is, is thatwhat I noticed is that people
were Reporting to brands, howone ad was performing and
saying, we need more of thiscreative one ad is not a
(52:43):
creative analysis.
One ad is an ad analysis of howit's performing under a
specific.
Yeah.
Demographic or I would sayaudience that you've chosen in
campaign.
So what we've done in adbeacons, we pull the image hash.
So let's just say it's image.
We do this video and we separatecopy, we separate all of that.
And we said, okay, there's 15versions of this specific image.
(53:05):
This is how it's trending interms of revenue.
CT R, et cetera, because thenyou'll be able to know this is
what's working.
This specific image, whetherit's on body, off, body
specific, female model, malemodel.
What drives that I think are theleverage for, and then you can
do, oh, is it actually thevariation with copy that
actually did this?
Or is it just the copy that didthis?
And then as you start to deducedown, you'll realize, oh, I've
(53:27):
been doing this all wrong.
And now all those agents.
Is that we're telling brands, weneed more video.
We need more video.
If they're not the onesproducing at the agency, that
takes a lot of time and effort,a lot of money to produce video.
When that wasn't the winner tobegin with, it was actually the
copy or whatever it may be.
So.
Some things to think about.
Yeah.
We had a question about costcaps and bid caps, which I've, I
(53:51):
actually don't use them a lot inthe accounts I work on.
It's a very contentious thingbut you know, like there's
people out there that aregetting fantastic results with
them.
So I wouldn't say again, it'sabout testing.
My mom identity is calling atthe store, go get it, go do it.
Yeah.
And I'll just switch on to thethe freebies there.
Just give me one second.
I'll show you guys a chat.
Yeah, no, first and foremost, Ijust want to say like, there is
(54:14):
no one way to media by Jessesaid it perfectly.
I've talked about this withSarah speaking in absolutes does
nothing.
So as much as I love Taylorholiday, who I know personally,
and Charlie Tickner and thetypes that are out there that,
and Andrew Ferris, like allgreat people, you just have to
remember what is working foryour account tested all
personally, budget cost caps andbid caps.
(54:36):
I don't necessarily.
I don't advocate for it.
And the reason why I don'tadvocate for it is because I
don't trust Meta's data.
So why would I trust Meta to putcaps, right?
That, that's my principle.
That's who I am.
So just consider that.
And yeah, if you guys want 20percent off of that, we can just
type in the code Phoenix likesme.
Cause I do.
That's amazing.
(54:57):
Oh, Jesse, you're muted.
Well, good muted you.
Yeah.
I popped in the chat, my freebieas well, which is a profit
calculator.
So, so many brands come to meand like, what should my
customer.
My customer cost of acquisition,customer acquisition costs.
Oh my God.
Be CAC and I created a kind ofcalculator, Google doc that you
(55:19):
can use to a Google worksheetyou can use to calculate it all
out.
And there's a little video withtraining on there.
So you can get that from thatlink.
And Sarah, you were going togive, you were going to look for
your freebie.
Did you find it?
I totally found my freebie.
It's, it's been a long timesince I it's been a long time
since I've been on one of thesewhere I needed a freebie.
So anyways, this is the freebiethat I have.
(55:39):
This one is specifically acourse that will teach you how
to create emotionally focusedads, specifically statics.
Cause I like to test staticsbefore I go into more expensive
types of ads.
So if you guys want to learn howto, how to do psychographic ads
you can go to this link.
Love it.
That's amazing.
Well, thank you all for coming.
It was awesome having you here.
And I loved jamming with youladies.
It was the best.
(56:01):
To more no bro, get togethersand chat, because I think I
learned a lot today so yeah,guys.
Awesome.
We'll see you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Thanks so much for joining us here on the
E-Commerce Impact Podcast.
If I can ask you one favor, canyou please make sure you
subscribe, and if you can leaveus a review, it helps us have a
much bigger impact with whatwe're trying to do here at the
E-Commerce Impact Podcast.
Now, if you're ready to takeyour e-commerce store to the
next level, then go towww.ecommerceimpactpodcast.com
(56:34):
and click on the button to booka strategy call with me.
On my team, we offer a freeorder of your advertising and a
custom growth plan.
So you really have nothing tolose by getting in touch and
jumping on call with us.
See you soon, and watch out forthe next episode in two weeks
time.
You are listening to the E-Commerce Impact Podcast,
where we share the latestmarketing strategies to grow
your e-commerce store and havemore impact.
I have got three amazing humanshere to talk to you all.
So just to introduce everyone.
So Sarah Levenger.
(00:28):
Founder of Tether Insights, theyrun research panels to go after
emotional and psychographic datato make your ads and, and your
marketing perform better.
Phoenix Heart is the founder ofAd Beacon and they make sure
that media buyers make decisionsoff data they can prove.
And I'm gonna introduce myselfjust in a little sec.
But today what we're talkingabout is how do we beat these
(00:48):
the rising costs of meta?
What's happened, Mark Zuckerbergannounced at the, at their
latest earnings call that theyhave increased the average price
per ad by 14 percent year onyear.
That's last quarter compared tothe quarter before.
So that means our cost base hasrisen by 14 percent in a year.
If any of your other cost spacewere rising by that much, you'd
(01:09):
be freaking out.
And to be honest, we need tofreak out about this because
it's not going to change.
It's not going to go away.
We need to all.
we run our ad accounts moreefficiently.
How we make our ads moreeffective, how we have our
setups more effective.
So that we don't just lose moreof our margin to matter.
So today we're each going totalk about a little section of
(01:30):
that.
So Phoenix is going to get downand dirty with how you can use
data and tracking and insight tomake sure that you're making the
best use of your ad accounts.
Sarah's going to talk to youabout how you can make better
psychological driven creativethat performs better and is
therefore more efficient.
And I'm going to talk to youabout a bunch of different ways
that that you can use the actualmedia buying process.
(01:51):
So your campaign set up.
The structure of your campaignsand a few little hacks that you
can use to make sure youraccount's more efficient.
So with that being said, let'sdive in.
If you have any questionsthroughout the presentation,
just chuck them in the chat andwe'll keep an eye on it.
And at the end of each littlesection, we'll go and look at
those.
So let's dive in.
(02:12):
So, oh yes.
And before I before I go on,make sure you say to the end, we
have a bunch of freebies foryou.
If for some reason you do haveto jump off and you're like, Oh,
I really want those freebies.
Just email me.
My email address is right there.
Sorry.
It's a long one.
That's e com growth experts.
com and it's jessie.
healy email me and I will makesure we send you out those
freebies.
(02:32):
So there we have it.
And let's dive in.
So why should you listen to me?
So I am.
I can hear an echo here.
I'm just gonna take myheadphones out.
So I'm the former head ofperformance marketing for Etsy
International.
I have spent over well over 50million on digital advertising
in my career.
I'm an exited e commerce agencyfounder.
(02:54):
So I had an agency for about sixyears in the UK.
focused on e commerce growth andmostly meta ads and a little bit
of Google ads.
I exited that agency and I'm nowan e commerce coach.
I've worked with over a hundredbrands on their meta ads,
helping them to scale.
And I've kind of been through itall with all of them figuring
this whole crazy marketingsystem out.
(03:14):
So that's a little bit about me.
Successfully scaled a bunch ofbrands to seven, eight, and even
nine figures actually.
So what can we do about thissituation?
Campaign structure.
So before we dive into campaignstructure, one thing I wanted to
touch on is that It can be verytempting when you're running
your ads to get like a littlebit too addicted to looking at
(03:34):
kind of those micro KPIs, forinstance, your CPM.
So your CPM is your cost perthousand tells you how much
you're paying per thousand adimpressions.
And it can be tempting as amedia buyer to think that's
risen.
All I need to bring that downand everything else will work.
And actually, I think that's notthe way to approach media
buying.
The way to approach buying is tolook at holistically all of your
(03:56):
data.
Compared, you know, in one, likein a one 360 view and.
You need to ultimately look atlike what's happening to your
revenue and what's happening toyour cost of acquisition, not
just like that kind of onemetric CPM.
So I'm not here today to tellyou all the hacks to, you know,
you can go on YouTube and seeall the hacks on how to lower
(04:16):
your CPM.
That alone won't make your adaccount more efficient because
all of these metrics worktogether.
Sometimes you pay a higher CPM,but it's a better quality
audience that you're reaching.
And therefore you get a lowercost of acquisition.
because you're reaching a betterquality audience with better
advertising and the clicks arebetter.
So don't look at CPM alone, butyes, that is a metric that you
(04:38):
should be monitoring and keepingan eye on because if everything
else is working great and yourCPM alone rises, then that alone
is going to raise your cost ofacquisition.
So that's one metric to watch.
A really important metric towatch is the cost of acquiring a
new customer.
So your total ad budget dividedby your total number of new
customers.
Keep an eye on that metric andthat.
(04:59):
If that's rising, you've got aproblem and you've got something
that you need to fix.
And that's where some of thesestrategies are going to come and
help.
Blended ROAS.
So not just your in platformROAS, your in platform ROAS lies
to you.
And Phoenix is going to talk abit more about this as well.
But you want to look at yourblended ROAS as well.
So look at your like high level,all of the, all of the money
you're spending on ads.
(05:20):
And look at what, what that'sdriving in terms of revenue and,
and work with those two numberstogether.
And don't just look at yourplatform numbers in isolation.
You want to see your totalrevenue.
You also want to look at yournew versus returning customer
numbers.
So if, and this is one of thethings that like we've noticed a
lot with meta over the recentyears is it's, it's pushing more
(05:41):
towards middle of funnel, it'spushing more towards retargeting
and often not bringing you asmany new customers.
So that is a metric you want totrack and you want to track.
Exactly that your traffic, howmuch of your traffic is from new
people versus returning.
So don't let, we said at thebeginning that this presentation
was about, you know, we don'twant to play Zuck's game and
just let him take all our money.
(06:02):
We want to really like dive intothis data and understand what's
actually happening beneath thenumbers.
And if he's just driving you awhole bunch of traffic, that's
already been to your site.
Your account is not going to beas efficient at acquiring new
customers, which is how weachieve growth.
So that's really important.
And also looking at thatincremental revenue.
Okay.
Did I, if I spent more on ads,did I get more revenue?
It's as simple as that sometimesto really understand whether
(06:25):
your.
The way your media buying isworking that being said, here
are some thoughts on how you canlower your CPM or increase the
efficiency of your account isprobably a better way of putting
it.
So one thing I would definitelyencourage you to do is broaden
your targeting.
You may.
Hopefully you're already doingthat.
(06:46):
Hopefully if you follow us, youkind of already know that broad
targeting has been the way for anumber of years now on Meta, but
I can't tell you how many adaccounts I open up to audit
still these days.
And I'll see six differentcampaigns all targeting micro
interests and lookalikes and allthe budget split across a whole
bunch of different campaigns andad sets that is going to raise
(07:07):
your cost.
Trying to niche down in yourtargeting is gonna raise your
costs, make your ad account moreefficient, less efficient, and
generally your ad account'sgonna perform worse.
If you are still doing lots ofmicro-targeting, I encourage you
to consolidate and go broad andcompare what happens.
Look, there are no.
Like there are no one trueanswer and media buying or in
(07:30):
the way you do your marketing,but I would encourage you to
test this at least test itproperly.
Give it a good amount of time torun, get it, give it a good
amount of time to optimize, butbroader targeting is really key.
Consolidate your ad spend.
So again, when I see the budgetsplit between loads of different
ad sets and campaigns, that'swhen I know that the ad account
is inefficient, it's going to bewasting So you want to
(07:52):
consolidate as much of your spinto one campaign, maybe two
campaigns.
And I'll talk about structure ina second, but consolidation is
super, super important.
Another thing to think about,and Sarah's going to talk a lot
about creative and how we canget it to perform better.
But one thing that specificallywill make your your media budget
go further as creative, that's abit more provocative or
(08:12):
interactive.
So you may, if you've been mediabuying for a while, you may have
noticed that when your ad is alittle bit spicy, when it gets a
lot of comments, when it maybemakes.
Pushes a few buttons or triggersa few people, you will get a
better performance from it.
So depending on your brand, youmight want to think about how
can I make my creative a littlebit more spicy, like a little
bit more triggering for somepeople, because that will bring
(08:36):
more comments and more commentsis something that Metta really
loves and Metta will serve yourad more often if it's got more
comments and interactions.
Little hack.
And again, I don't like hacksbecause I don't think that a
solution to everything, but ifyou are suffering from extremely
high CPNs and you've triedeverything else, one thing you
can do is use the post ID ofyour ad and republish it as an
(08:57):
engagement campaign, just forthe purpose of getting all those
comments.
You can also push it out to likeexisting customers.
You know, I have as many peoplecomment on the ad as possible,
and often that will kind oflower the CPM and make that ad
perform better.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is increasing your
conversion rates to improve dataflow, right?
So meta is an algorithm.
(09:17):
It works on data.
If it's got lots of good dataabout who's converting, it's
more likely to be efficient andto work well.
So if your site is notconverting very well, the
traffic that's coming throughthose ads.
is not sending a signal back tometa, then the then the machine
just doesn't work as well.
So we want to make the machinemore efficient by giving it more
(09:38):
data.
So working really hard toimprove your conversion rates is
going to make the whole machinework better and be more
efficient.
So there's a ton of things youcan do.
You can look up resources, etcetera, to improve your
conversion rates.
But really monitor that metricand do as much as you can to
improve it.
Another thing just to thinkabout is using all placements.
So the more control thealgorithm has to be able to
(10:00):
place your ad in many differentplaces, the lower your ad cost
is going to be.
Because if you're restricted tocertain placements, you have to
be more competitive in the, inthe auction.
To be able to compete againstother other advertisers.
Whereas if you have a flexiblead type that, so it's like less
than 60 seconds, so it can runon reels.
It can run on stories, etcetera, if it's size.
(10:22):
So it fits almost everywhere onevery placement, then your ad
account will be more efficientas well.
So all placements as a usefulkind of little hack there, and
then thinking about ad qualityand ad feedback.
So.
You know, balancing what I saidabout being provocative, like
you don't want to be soprovocative that people are
like, Oh, I hate that ad.
I'm hiding this.
I'm reporting it.
(10:43):
You want to be just that littlebit spicy to get some comments
going, but you don't want tomake people angry because ads
that people hate, that peoplegive bad feedback on again, that
will make your ad account lessefficient.
So that's some ideas therearound just.
generally making your accountmore efficient.
The structure and setup I use atthe moment is and this changes,
(11:04):
you know, over time we changethis, but at the moment this is
the structure that's working.
We're expecting some changesfrom Meta in terms of them
forcing us to run everythingthrough ASC.
And that's sort of coming tolight at the moment and rolling
out.
But one of the things I wouldthe, the way that I structure
things at the moment isgenerally I have an ASC for
scaling ads, and that's got allmy best ads, all my best
(11:25):
creative in there.
And then I have one singlecampaign.
Budget optimized campaign fortesting ads.
So and in that campaign, I'lllaunch a new ad set.
Every time I have a new ad test,I'll do micro variations of that
one ad, and I will run each adtest as its own ad set, but I
let the algorithm allocate thebudget between those ad sets.
(11:46):
And then if it, if it doesn'tperform, then I'll turn it off.
And so at any one time I mighthave.
three to 10 different ads beingtested within that CBO.
So it's super consolidated.
It's two campaigns.
Essentially the algorithm ismaking almost all of the media
buying decisions and I'm justfeeding it with new creative all
the time.
So that's the structure I'musing to be super efficient
(12:06):
important watch out and see, andPhoenix, we'll talk a little bit
more about.
I'm going to talk about thiskind of side of things in just a
minute.
But important watch out is payattention to optimizing towards
seven day click one day viewattribution because allowing me
to attribute for that one dayview can sometimes mean meta
pushes out more of your adstowards warm audiences, which
(12:28):
again.
Can make the ad account lookgood, but it's, is it the best
efficient use of your budget ifyou're wanting to attract new
customers and grow your, growyour business?
So something that I look at, ifI'm seeing a lot of the
attribution is going through oneday view, I will change that
sitting and optimize.
Just towards seven day click andsee how my data performs.
See how my account performs.
(12:49):
I've had a lot of successrecently with making that switch
and we're seeing a lot of newcustomers come through as a
result.
Watch out for your new versusreturning customer breakdown.
A meta may be overspending onexisting customers.
So in ASC, you can you can sit anew customer cap, so you can sit
that down really low so thathardly any of your budget is
(13:09):
going towards, sorry, existingcustomer cap So you can see your
budget so that your newcustomers almost all your budget
is going to new customers andyou kept the number of existing
customers that are seeing yourads.
That's a really good thing totake control of to stop me from
just making your ad account lookgood, but not actually driving
your business goals.
Another thing you can do as wellif you're seeing Meta just
(13:32):
spending a lot of the money onyour existing customers is to
test hard exclusion.
So you can upload a list of allyour past customers as a CSV.
You can use the pixel as welland you can tell force Meta to
exclude any of your pastcustomers, your website
visitors, etc.
Generally, you know, we stillwant to give the algorithm some
freedom to target people.
But if we're seeing a lot ofyour budget just going towards
(13:54):
existing customers, these hardexclusions can be something to
test.
And then I guess the other thingI would say is always measure
the impact on total revenuerevenue growth, not just in
platform data.
Or you can use a tool like adbeacon, which is, which Phoenix
is going to talk about in just asec to really understand what's
truly going on in your data,because we cannot trust the
(14:17):
platform data anymore, whichleads me nicely onto part to get
smarter with data and trackingPhoenix, are you.
Are you do you want me to justlike with like I can just go
through the slides.
If you just tell me great,that'd be great, Jesse.
Yeah, and I just wanted to like,just add on to what you said
about your last slide.
So optimize optimizing for sevenday click for seven day, click
(14:37):
one day view.
I've seen both sides, right?
I've seen that one day view candefinitely go to warmer
audiences, but then it does giveyou more reach.
So you have to make a decision.
And then also with the newversus returning breakdown that
actually might go away soon inmeta.
And I hope it does.
To hope it does because I'veplugged in, we've plugged in ad
beacon so many times to accountswhere ASC is saying that it's
(15:00):
actually driving far more newcustomers versus returning.
And then we plug it into adbeacon, which actually has your
customer data.
So we really do know if they'renew versus returning.
I'll know if Sarah Levenger is anew or Jesse Healy is a new
versus returning.
And often those metrics are soskewed and imagine like really
in.
Translated metrics and meta andthey're filling in the gaps
saying it's new versusreturning.
It just becomes a headache.
(15:21):
So everything you said, ahundred percent.
I agree.
Totally.
And yeah, like I said, like it'salways a test, right?
Like nothing is like, this ishow you should do things.
You should test and then youshould use data to see what's
truly going on, which withoutfurther ado, let's, let's jump
into it.
Wait, we don't speak inabsolutes here?
What a strange.
(15:43):
I thought that's what we didhere.
No bros in this.
Got it.
My bad.
Yeah, the agenda for today.
I think it's important to getthe foundation set.
So what is attribution?
We'll go back into view versusclick.
We'll go into third party versusfirst party.
I think these things are reallyimportant to go over before we
go in depth in depth and wewill.
And part of my job is education.
(16:03):
So let's go and educate.
You know, when you go to thenext slide.
So what is attribution?
I think it's a very big word.
It's a scary word for those whodon't know and for those who do,
let's just have a review.
Attribution is basically whogets credit for a sale and or
lead within a given amount oftime.
There's two factors, credit andtime.
And I think people forget aboutthe time factor.
(16:24):
So if you don't mind, go to thenext one.
It's important, actually, if yougo back one more time, it's
important to understand yourcustomer's journey by channel
than scale, because what willhappen is what if you made a
sale and there's all thesedifferent touch points, the
question is who gets credit?
Was it pin or is it?
That's an Instagram, right?
Was it Instagram or was it emailat the very end?
But there were all these touchpoints in between and how much
(16:45):
credit should each one of theseget?
And there's a lot of differentways to go about this and
measure this.
And I just want to walk youthrough the different types that
most people in our industry gooff of and when to best use
them.
So then we can go to the nextone.
So there's a first clickattribution and I'll go into
click versus view in a littlebit, but I definitely think it's
important to just.
Talk about click for right now.
(17:06):
And, and again, it's if youclicked a tangible click.
So in this example, Facebook wasthe first click, right?
So we're going to say there wasa hundred dollars sale.
We're going to give Facebook ahundred percent of the credit,
which is a hundred dollars.
In this case, we call this adiscovery channel.
I apparently can't spell.
So it's a discovery channel.
(17:27):
And this is how people find you.
The first touch is thisassumption that that's the first
time they've actuallyinteracted, right?
The view aside is maybe you sawit, but let's just say
interaction via click.
In this case, it was Facebook.
So some people would say, firstclick, 100.
Go ahead to the next one if youdon't mind.
This is just the inverse.
You can, we can go here.
It's fine.
(17:47):
This is the inverse.
So let's just say Pinterest isthe last click.
So we just negate all the onesprior to that.
Pinterest is the 100 sale.
And we say, okay, this is theone that people click done right
before the purchase.
If you were a brand, often wemake the mistake of saying, I
only care about last click, butthat's like going on a date and
(18:08):
saying that the end result,which is the relationship.
The marriage just magicallyhappened.
There were dates that happenedprior to that conversations that
happened prior to that, that ledto the commitment of the sale,
the commitment of the sale ofthis ring, right?
So that is the idea behind it.
And I just want to put intocontext, if we always just go
off of last click, you have toremember there was a journey
(18:28):
that led to it.
So take it with a grain of salt.
This is a good conversionchannel.
But if we go to the next one,this is going to be linear
attribution.
Linear just says, well, I wantto give everybody the same
amount of credit, right?
So even if Facebook had twotouches in the whole point or in
the whole journey, it's stillgoing to get that incremental
(18:49):
credit.
Right.
So this is really important inorder to give it the right
credit to proportion to theamount of clicks.
And people use this.
I suggest using this in terms ofreporting omni channel.
Now, if you're just one specificchannel, right, you only
advertise on Facebook and youbarely do anything on organic,
then probably Facebook's what'sdriving all the sales or meta,
(19:11):
if you want to call it that.
But if you diversify your stack,it gets very complicated.
Very quick.
And this is a good way tounderstand the purpose.
So, right.
If in this case, theconversation I would have is
Facebook's a really greatintroductory channel.
It looks like take talk is theone that really gets people to
convert the last step, but lookacross the way people are
searching around.
(19:32):
You don't mind go to the nextone and oh, one more.
So this is interesting to mebecause this is full impact
attribution.
The most common question I getasked is why is Facebook so
wrong then?
They're so smart.
Why do you think you've solvedit and They haven't solved it.
(19:56):
It's a lot there and we'll gointo that.
But I think when it comes downto it, it says full impact
attribution.
This model I'm about to teachyou is the closest attribution
model to meta, and I will showyou the problem with it.
Facebook, Pinterest, Snapchat,all these platforms want the
credit for the sale.
Why?
Because they want you to spendmore money on their platforms.
(20:16):
It's very simple.
And the problem with this isfull impact says every single
touch point with 100 percentcredit.
But I told you there was onesale and it was just a hundred
dollars.
But if we use this model, everysingle one of these touch points
will say a hundred dollars.
And at the end of the day, whatdo we 1, sale that didn't
happen.
So how many times do you go intoyour Shopify WooCommerce
(20:38):
BigCommerce store and it saysyou made 25, 000 met at all
these platforms are like, I madeyou 25, 000.
Each of them said that.
So now we made how much?
Really made way more.
No, we didn't.
And this is a big problem.
This is just one of the aspectsthat I think is hyper inflating
the revenue that's that'sreported in these platforms.
I had a fever dream one night.
(20:59):
And it was like in the middle ofthe night, all my clients were
like, okay, Phoenix, you've gotfirst, last linear and full
impact.
Like, which one do I use to makedecisions?
These are great, but like whichone?
And I couldn't answer thatquestion confidently, which was
really frustrating to me becauseI didn't want to rely on just
what Meadows was, which is fullimpact.
We know it's inflated.
So in the middle I woke up, myhusband's like, who cares when I
(21:22):
told him this?
And I was like, look, what if Itook linear, but I made it just
by channel.
So.
If I know that Facebook onlycares about its hand in the
sale, fine, because you have tostill make decisions in the
Facebook platform, right?
What if I just said, I only wantto know the touch points that
Facebook had in the ultimatesale at the end of the day, but
(21:42):
I wanted to give it proportioncredit.
So the idea is that if I'm justdoing Facebook, I'm going to
eliminate all the other.
Channels like Snapchat, Google,Pinterest, et cetera.
And I'm going to give itfractional credit based off the
amount of clicks to that ahundred dollars sale.
So here there's two touchpoints, Facebook, it's 50
credit.
The first click second click is50 credit because you can only
(22:04):
control.
What you have access to.
And we have access to trueconversion data on the back end
of Shopify, WooCommerce orBigCommerce.
I want to know how much Facebookhelped for that with these
clicks.
So Lighthouse optimization isnot a proprietary attribution
model.
It's just simply an optimizationmodel we created to show you,
(22:24):
Hey, this is the actual impactit had.
And I'm very, very much advocatefor this.
And this has been my heartbeatfor some time.
There's the next question ofcontention.
But Phoenix, views have a lot ofweight.
You can't tell me that you'renot going to make any decisions
off of views.
I'm like, I didn't say viewmetrics.
I said view attribution.
There's a two very differentthings.
(22:46):
View metrics are like how longsomeone viewed your ad.
And I know Sarah's going to goin depth with this as well.
How long someone viewed your adclick through rate hook rates,
which is, you know, synonymouswith thumbstop ratio.
These are all metrics.
These are hard metrics that metaprovides that are not biased.
View attribution is what did Isay?
Getting credit for a lead or asale within a given amount of
(23:08):
time.
That blend of metrics is likeyour protein powder.
It's proprietary.
It's their secret sauce.
You don't know what that is andthat's a problem.
So imagine it could be yourgrandmother watching a, an ad
for a certain amount of timemixed in with X, Y, Z metrics.
You don't know what that is andthere's no way to prove it.
And each, I would say Google,Pinterest, Snapchat, all of them
(23:31):
have different definitions ofwhat view attribution is.
So now imagine trying to put allthose things in one basket and
make a decision.
That's a joke.
So I say there's viewattribution versus click
attribution.
Which one should we go after?
I am a huge advocate of clickattribution because now I can at
least make a decision.
Great.
So I like to make this analogy.
(23:52):
I'm driving down SunsetBoulevard.
I live in LA.
So ish.
So this is pertaining to me.
Let's just say I saw an ad of aGlamnetic since they're under
some fire right now.
I love that.
Glamnetic is an eyelash company,right?
The magnetic eyelashes.
I see a billboard.
Okay.
Saw the billboard.
Then I saw a YouTube video, butI never clicked on anything,
(24:13):
right?
Because you can't click onanything from a billboard unless
you have like a specific code ora specific link that's only
attributed to viewing thatbillboard.
Same with a YouTube video.
I'm not going to say thebillboard didn't sway me.
I'm not going to say the YouTubevideo didn't sway me, but it
didn't make any actions.
But then I saw a Facebook adabout Glamnetic and I clicked on
it.
And then I viewed it on Tik TOK,but then at the very end I
(24:35):
clicked on, you know, Googlesearch in ad beacon.
We only care about the Facebookad and the Google click, right?
The Google search click.
But the thing is, is if I, Thinkabout Billboard, YouTube and
TikTok.
How much weight should that get?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Just because they viewed itdoesn't mean that they actually
made some type of tangibleaction to convert.
(24:56):
So you can only make decisionsoff of data you can prove.
And click is clear because thedefinition of click is the same.
Everywhere is a tangible action.
So what we decided on a longtime ago is just click.
And this is why I reallyadvocate for just having seven
day click in meta as well, andstill that is handcuffed.
There's some issues to dataprivacy and security.
(25:18):
We're not able to see as manyattributed orders.
So that's why ad beacon isreally helpful, but I will tell
you that is a good step in theright direction.
Now, let me kind of explain toyou the impacts of third party
data.
So we consider.
Meta, a third party app and weconsider your data first party
data because that's your data.
(25:38):
So this is the diabolical issuewe are going through right now.
If you are working with largebudgets, large budgets, or if
you're inching your way to getto large budgets.
Here's the problem.
Your platform is going to tellyou you made 746, 000, all these
platforms, if you actually addedit up.
And if you're an agency andyou're, you're reporting to your
(25:59):
brand and you're, if you're thebrand, you know, this pain, it
doesn't make sense because inGoogle analytics now it's saying
548, 000, but then your e comstore says we only made 474,
000.
Which one do we actually careabout?
It should be the one in red.
We should only care about the474 because that's the one that
you put at the bank account atthe end of the night.
You feed people, you put moneyon people's tables with this.
(26:22):
It's food, right?
That's the analogy that is soimportant.
And if everything doesn't add upat the end of the day to your e
comm store, what are we doing?
And I think that's the mostimportant takeaway from this.
When you use third party data,you're driving in the dark with
your eyes closed.
A lot of people are saying,we're just going to make do with
what we have.
(26:42):
Okay.
Here's what you have a hugeinflation of metrics that are
going to hurt you at the end ofthe day and responsible media
buyers.
Like Jesse are going to guideyou in the right direction.
It's a sobering truth.
You can't have flawed data.
You can't have inconsistentreporting.
And how are you supposed tooptimize campaigns?
How are you supposed to makedecisions if you can't prove
(27:03):
anything?
So this has been a hugeheartbeat of mine.
I'll show you what first partydata unlocks.
So I have strayed away fromsingle source of truth.
So I apologize for putting thison there.
I think that it is a source oftruth just because.
I don't want to sit withabsolutes anymore.
This is a new era guys, buttracking is a one to one
connection with ad beacon.
(27:23):
We're able to really show youevery step.
So if you see here, likereported row as versus what
we're seeing, you can see on theright hand side that Roberto,
he's not real.
I promise he.
Well, maybe he clicked on allthese things, right?
Here's a Google ad.
Here's a Facebook ad.
I can feel with confidence thathe had a journey that led me
there.
And now I can make decisions andI feel good about him.
(27:45):
And especially if you're a mediabuyer, you can speak to your
clients confidently.
And if you're a client, you cansee it confidently and you can
move on with that reporting.
So these are really importantthings to take note of what it
opens up.
Everything is connected in oneplace.
Optimization, customer journeys,LTV reports, clear channel
breakdowns.
You need everything in oneplace.
(28:05):
And that's why the first part ofthe data that you have unlocked
so much.
And it just needs to be put intoa system that makes sense.
So The last component, the lastslide is, I just want to show
you what first party datareally, really, really does
unlock.
And I think that what'simportant for us to make
decisions off of is people needto ask, like, why are people
winning?
And Sarah and I talked aboutthis a couple weeks ago.
(28:27):
It's like, everyone's sayingthey're winning right now.
Not everybody's winning, but thepeople who are somewhat winning
are using platforms likeAdBeacon because you can't
Confidently scale without thistype of proof.
So if you see right here the wayyou would look at this is ad
name says police week, right?
You can see the amount spent, etcetera.
But if you click on that littleshopping cart, you can actually
(28:50):
see that Eddie W bought at thistime.
These were all the clicks thatled him to the sale.
And this was the product that hebought.
And we'll also know his contactinformation.
It unveils so much because nowwe'll know, is Eddie a new
customer?
Is he a returning customer?
Is your best customer?
Is he your worst customer?
And then it just unlocks somuch.
So I just, at the end of theday, my heartbeat for you is if
(29:11):
you're spending money onplatforms, at least have some
proof.
But yeah, that's, that's all Ihave to talk about.
Just a little, little, littletouch of attribution.
Love it.
Does anybody have any questionsfor Phoenix before we move on to
the next section?
Cool.
Awesome.
Alrighty.
You answered everything.
It's all clear.
(29:32):
All attrition, guys.
Yeah, I mean, I think as I canjust echo like what Phoenix has
been saying like.
If you're looking only atplatform data, you really are
just operating so blind.
So it's yeah.
Alrighty.
So Sarah, over to you.
How can we get smarter withcreative to make our ad accounts
work better to make our adbudget go further?
(29:54):
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Creative obviously is myfavorite thing.
I'm going to echo a little bitof what Phoenix said.
I think it's incrediblyimportant nowadays to understand
that the customer journey is notlinear, like it's never, ever
going to be step one, step two,step three, all the way over to
purchase.
And I think most marketersnowadays know that, but one of
the things that I see in the adaccounts, which I find kind of
funny, our ad creative does notreflect that belief almost at
(30:16):
all.
Almost everybody that I workwith specifically when they come
to me for research orunderstanding their consumers
from an emotional and likepsychographic standpoint, almost
every single one seems tostruggle with the same problem.
Sarah, we're rinsing andrepeating the same message over
and over and over.
And we don't know how to get inmore customers at top of the
funnel.
This seems to be a big problemthese days for both large scale
(30:37):
and small scale brands.
I've seen nine figure brandswith this problem, and I've seen
startups with this problem.
Everybody seems to like strugglewith it in some capacity.
And I think it's because we haveforgotten as marketers what our
job actually is.
So in general, when we're tryingto get customers into a brand,
(30:57):
all we are trying to do is buildsomething that resonates deeply
with them as a person.
So your creative needs to beable to be a mirror.
You have to be able to reflectwhat that person is outside of
your ecosystem so that by thetime they do start to get into
your ecosystem and they followyou on Tik TOK, or they click
something on Pinterest, or theygo over to Facebook and click on
(31:19):
your ad, they already aligned sowell with you that they can't
help it.
So I just did a training todaywhere I was blowing some
people's minds.
One of the best examples of thisis Pixar, Disney, game of
thrones the Simpsons, right?
All of these different.
Pieces of content, these brandsthat were created were created
(31:39):
on content and the content was ahundred percent built just so
that people could enjoy it.
When Simpsons first started,they didn't have merchandise to
sell.
They didn't send anybody to awebsite.
They didn't even have anymerchandise in production.
All they did for years wascontinuously produce something
that people could enjoy,something that people could come
in and actually consume, right?
(32:00):
Pixar is the same.
Disney is the same.
Game of Thrones is the same.
All of these different entitiesfocused on creating something
that people could consume andbecome a part of their identity
so that when it came time forthem to produce merchandise and
sell to this audience, peoplecouldn't handle, like they
couldn't stop themselves frompurchasing.
(32:21):
So, How do we do this increative?
How do we actually make a gooddeep connection with a customer
who either knows a lot about usor doesn't know anything about
us in an ad account whereeverything is too expensive and
we're competing across the boardwith way too many people?
How do we do that?
Very first thing you got to knowis how people actually make
purchases.
So from the core of a human.
(32:43):
Everything is built off of youridentity, which is usually
typically arranged within thefirst seven years of your life.
After that, you basically justpractice everything that you
have been taught in those coreyears, and it just becomes kind
of a part of your person as youget older and older and older
identity is at the core ofeverything.
Now I focus heavily on identitywhen it comes to creative,
primarily because identity shiftthroughout the day.
(33:07):
So oftentimes you'll find thatMetta will just, woo, spend all
of your budget randomly withinthe first three hours of the
day.
And you're like, what the hell?
Like I had all of thesedifferent parameters set.
You shouldn't have done that.
Metta is going to do thisrandomly because again, it's
going after who it thinks isgoing to purchase from you.
Who it thinks is going topurchase from you.
Not who might actually purchasefrom you, but just like it's
(33:29):
trying its best to try to weaveits way through this web of
consumers.
Right?
So what we're doing now is wegot to start to pull back in
control on our side and go afteridentities and people, because
we don't have control over whereour ads go as soon as they get
into the system.
They go where they go,especially if you're doing
things correctly and you have itset up to capture the widest
audience, they're going to gowhere they go.
(33:50):
So the very first thing we needto do, figure out which
identities are we trying toactivate?
Cause like I said, differentidentities will come up at
different times of the day.
For instance, Sarah has severalidentities.
I'm a mom.
That's one identity.
I hold, I'm an entrepreneur.
That's another identity I hold.
I'm a wife.
That's the third identity Ihold.
These are cores, right?
Secondary identities might be, Ilove humorous things.
(34:12):
Anything that has a cat meme init, I'm probably going to laugh
at just because that's part ofmy identity.
I also love cooking, right?
That's a part of my identity.
That's a secondary identity.
So over time, as you start toget to know your customers
better through primarilypictorial surveys, which is the
way I prefer to get thisinformation, but.
If you go through and you digdeep enough, you can figure out
(34:32):
which identities your customershold and start to blend them
together so that we can qualifypeople better so that no matter
what time of the day Meta isspending to try and get
customers in, we're going to hitthe right identity every time.
That's the key.
To good creative this year.
And obviously creative is thebiggest lever we have.
It's also the easiest way tokeep your costs low across the
(34:56):
board.
If you can qualify someonebetter at the top, they will
become more attached to you atthe bottom.
And this is something I saw on,on Twitter.
I don't know if you saw thisPhoenix, Jesse, you probably saw
this too.
There was a couple of different,very large scale brands this
week that wrote huge threads on,like, I don't know what's going
on.
Meta seems to be only pulling inpeople from the bottom of the
funnel.
(35:16):
Like we just, our costs arerising and they're like, freak
it out.
And I was like, well, it'sbecause you're only rinsing one
identity.
Yeah.
Feel bad.
No, no dig on that.
But like, you can't go after thesame customer over and over and
over and over and over andexpect your business to grow.
That's not how businesses grow.
You have to open your TAM.
You've got to get into differentmarkets.
(35:37):
There are millions of differentpeople that could purchase your
product for tons of differentreasons.
If you activate the identity atthe top of your creative, by the
time they get to this, thisportion of purchasing, they will
already have adopted you as apart of their identity.
And they'll become customers forlife.
I digress.
This is why I love what Phoenixdoes because she's tracking
(35:58):
customer journey journeys,people.
There's everywhere.
So one of the best ways to dothis is to go after like I said,
I, I run pictorial surveys totry and figure this out mostly
because on the picture side,humans are built to think in
pictures.
We have to actually be taughthow to think in language but as
babies from birth, you are,you're a picture thinker.
(36:19):
So if you're running any sort ofsurvey, if you're running any
sort of quiz, first thing youneed to do is try really hard
not to ask questions that aregoing to lead answers or make it
biased.
You also need to shift over totry to, to get more of that
emotional data out by servingpeople a way that like, it makes
it easier for the brain toemotionally think, first of all.
After you get that data out,then we're going to segment
(36:43):
down.
So every piece of creative youhave needs to go towards a
specific identity of person, oneat a time.
Right.
So we're going to talk to mom,Sarah, we'll talk to
entrepreneurial Sarah, and we'lltalk to like wife, Sarah,
separately in the ad account.
Once you start to see one ofthese take off where it's like,
dang, entrepreneur Sarahresponds really well to our ads.
Then I could segment furtherdoes entrepreneur Sarah and
(37:03):
humorous Sarah.
Does that fit better?
Because now I can blend thosetwo together and drop my costs
lower and lower and lower.
Creative is actually really easyguys.
It's really, really easy toproduce good creative.
If you know, your customer isdown to like the bottom of
themselves to the point whereyou can understand if we blend a
message that goes toentrepreneur Sarah, with a funny
(37:27):
something cat meme, she's goingto respond.
Cause that's just, okay.
So.
Protests on how to do this.
I think as if you have likesmall budget or if it's
incredibly difficult for you toget good creative, like I don't
have a creative team.
I'm doing this all by myself.
I'm just like a lone founder outhere trying to like, just swim
through the dark waters.
Best thing that you can do isget on the phone with a customer
(37:48):
if you can and talk to themabout their experience.
Now, this is something I tellpeople constantly, every
community, every single market.
On the planet has very specificexperiences that pertain to just
that topic.
For instance, as a mom, I had, Ipersonify my kids all the time.
When they were babies, I wouldgive them voices and I would
like talk to myself as talkingto the baby all the time.
(38:10):
Every mom I know has done this.
They'll personify their baby.
Similarly, my husband's into 3Dprinters and hockey and all
kinds of different things.
There are specific experiencesthat that community has that
only that community would know.
For instance, he's into hockey,but it's beer league hockey,
which I didn't know this, butbeer league hockey is apparently
like a different breed of hockeyplayer.
(38:31):
They're, they're very kind ofmacho dudes, but they're also
just like, they don't care likeliterally at all.
They just go out there becausethey enjoy like fighting for an
hour and then they come off andthey all have a beer together.
Very strange experience.
But in general, if I was a beerleague hockey guy and I saw an
ad for a hockey stick or hockeygloves or hockey anything that
could show that experience.
(38:53):
Very quickly can I connect withthat and start to click through
the ecosystem, right?
I think it's important for us torealize that in paid advertising
We are actually competing harderwith people's levels of
inattention than attention ifyou could create that good
connection great But oftentimeswe're competing with people's
inability to concentrate.
We're also competing withindifference People are more
(39:17):
indifferent to us than they arelike interested in the entire
industry, right?
So in general, when we start tocreate good pieces of creative,
I want you guys to go study yourcustomer, get on the phone with
them, get a survey going,understand who they are and ask
questions about what they do intheir life outside of your
brand, your industry, what yousell.
(39:37):
Secondary to that, I want youguys to go study organic
content.
Organic creators are incrediblygood at telling stories, at
keeping attention, captivatingaudiences, and building massive
followings that help them sellwhat they're selling.
Very first thing they did thoughwas create content.
They don't sell anything.
Inside what they're doing forvery long periods of time.
(39:59):
Often if you rise from like zeroto like millions and millions of
followers, you just did itbecause you liked creating the
content and you were kind offunny.
Right.
Or you had something very oddthat you were doing that people
just couldn't get enough of.
So go get on the phone with acustomer.
Get some of that emotional data,understand their lifestyle
outside of the actual adaccount.
Go study organic content.
Please just scroll for a littlewhile and see what these people
(40:20):
are doing.
See what captivates you, right?
Oftentimes it's the sound thatstops people faster than the
actual video does.
Prioritize sound, especially onvideo.
And the last thing that I wantyou to do is once you have all
this data, you understand, like,here's some stories that I can
definitely work off of.
Here's what I know about mycustomer.
Then when you go into the adaccount and start building your
actual creative in there, youneed to have a wide range.
(40:43):
Of ad types.
So you don't have, or you don'tend up having to do what the big
brands are doing is like, we'verinsed the same message to the
same exact audience for the lastfour years, and now it's not
working anymore.
And we had nothing could work.
You got to expand out yourcreative types.
I'm not talking format, by theway, format has nothing to do
with this.
Format is not a strategy.
Selecting format is not astrategy.
(41:05):
Your strategy needs to cometogether.
with selecting the right type ofcreative.
So, I typically run fourdifferent types of creative in
the ad accounts.
Top levels almost always triggerevents.
So we're talking to, Sarah, didyou just lose your job?
Sarah, did you just have a baby?
Sarah, did you just move?
Like, talk about what'shappening in their life.
Secondary is exploration ads.
(41:25):
This is to the customer whoknows a little bit about the
industry, but hasn't, hasn'tgotten to the point where
they're ready to purchase.
So exploration ads are a lot ofthis style of ad where we talk
about the actual experience.
Like one day she was going toher mom's house and she had a
really hard time because, like,her shoes just didn't, like, fit
right and she really wanted somecomfortable walking shoes that
didn't look ugly or like oldgrandma.
Those are the type ofexploration ads where we're just
(41:47):
telling stories, right?
Evaluation ads are where almostevery brand on the planet lives,
and these drive me crazy.
Evaluation ads are typicallylike, we have a sale, last
chance, limited time offer, 30percent off.
Evaluation ads are fine, butplease don't make your entire ad
account evaluation ads.
They need to be just asubsection of that.
And then the last section shouldbe purchase ads.
(42:09):
These are the ones that aredirect.
This sale is going to end in 24hours.
Black Friday sale only we'regoing out of business.
I don't care what you're sayingat the bottom though.
Those are the purchase ads.
Again, every brand I see livesin like this evaluation
purchase.
They don't expand out into theexploratory.
Let's just tell a cool story or,or upwards to the funnel where
(42:31):
it's just trigger ads, wherewe're just talking about the
experiences of everyday people,four different types of ads in
the ad account.
And typically I try and runthese year round.
If you see an ad that was in theexploratory phase start to drop
off, replace it.
If you see an ad that'ssomewhere in like the upwards of
the trigger event phase,fatigue, replace it.
(42:53):
Don't just say, Oh, those don'twork.
We got to go back after these,like just hardcore sales.
You're going to rinse theaudience too much and then
you'll end up just burning outyour customer base.
Get on the customer.
Please do that.
And then go through and actuallybuild some sort of a base of
like consumer research, right?
So you can refer to itconstantly.
Get yourself a resource forthat.
Study the organic content.
(43:14):
Make sure you're going throughand actually understanding what
do we actually compete with?
Cause we compete with a lot ofindifference and a lot of
organic.
That's what we're actuallycompeting with.
And then last on here, run fourdifferent types of ads year
round in the ad account.
You got to get some diversity inthere.
Not with format.
But with type, right?
Type of ad so that we can startto create some good wins.
(43:34):
So in general, my company,Tether Insights, we only study
consumers.
That's all we do.
And all of it is running towardseither emotional or
psychographic data.
So I pull in all of this dataspecifically for your audience,
your industry, and their beliefsabout themselves, about the What
they think about the world, likehow they get resources, how they
gain success.
So if you're interested inlearning more about your
consumers, you can always cometalk to me.
(43:55):
But in general, the more we knowabout consumers, the better
content we can create, the morecontent you create and the more
identity focused it is, the morethey'll consume it and the more
they'll buy.
Do you think Sarah, like, andthis is a great conversation.
I know I'm going a little offthe cuff guys.
Sorry.
We've got time for it.
It's amazing.
(44:16):
So with the health and wellnessrestrictions right now, I just
feel like, yeah, this is, thisis a topic health and wellness
with all the restrictions, youknow, the.
The recommendations have alwaysbeen like, okay, now we have to
do only top funnel efforts.
Like brain awareness campaignskill me.
I hate brain awarenesscampaigns, but it made me think
of you, Sarah, in the sense ofjust speaking to customers
(44:37):
directly.
Like I do think that content andcreative is king.
Therefore it, it basically doesthe targeting for you.
But what were your, what areyour thoughts, Jesse and Sarah?
Because both of you Sarah forright now, both of you, I have
my thoughts on the trackingside, which I'll go into in a
minute, but I want to hear yourson the creative.
(44:58):
Yeah I, meta has beeninteresting lately and I've
gotten a lot of supplementbrands who come in and say we
weren't affected at all.
And I've had some come in andsay we're dying.
We're never going to be asupplement brand again.
So we got to figure this out.
When it comes to identity callit, calling out a specific
identity.
The only way I've ever seenbrands do this is to actually
directly go after it where theysay, are you a 30 somethings
(45:18):
woman who wants to lose weight?
I get nervous when that happensbecause I'm like, Ooh, that's
incredibly forward.
Also, it makes it very, verydifficult for you to pull back
on what you're claiming.
Right.
Because you, you told her at thebeginning, are you looking to
lose weight?
Some of those elements are goingto come into play when meta
starts flagging stuff, becauseyou're qualifying intensely
(45:40):
instead of just going after herperson.
If that makes sense, like we'regoing after her.
Like, very intense issue, likeher need.
So, I, again, I, I default tolet's qualify people by
understanding the experiencethat they're going through.
Not by just asking, are you thisspecific person with this
specific need?
(46:01):
On the meta side, yeah.
Do you want to run with yourkids?
There you go.
That's identity focus.
Yes.
Right.
Like there's ways to get aroundit because you actually can't
address it, especially with likea HIPAA compliant specific
account because I've worked withthose too.
But anyway, Jessie, what areyour thoughts with like health
and wellness and all that andtargeting?
Oh God.
Yeah.
It's really, it's a minefieldbecause it's weird.
(46:23):
I've had, I've got a brand thatsells like menstrual cups that's
been classified as health andwellness.
And it's like, what the hell?
That's makes no sense.
That's no disease related tobeing a woman as far as I know.
Yeah, I mean, we just have tokind of, we just have to kind of
keep seeing what happens.
And I, my hope is that meta willslowly get through and
(46:45):
recategorize people.
Correctly.
And that might, what I hope iswhat people have said is that
Meta doesn't want us toadvertise specific diseases
because that identifies ourpersonal data related to that
disease.
But if they were not selling aproduct that's specifically
calling out a specific disease,we should be able to get that
(47:05):
categorization removed andtherefore run as normal.
But the problem is Meta is like,You know, it could take a year
or more to get yourcategorization.
Correct.
So that's what we're fightingagainst.
We have got a question here fromOrrin about how do you structure
the account for connecting withyour creative?
So if you only have one campaignwith one, AFC, ASC, he's noticed
(47:26):
that sometimes Meta just grabshold of one creative.
Yeah.
So the way I get around that andlike Sarah Phoenix, you guys
might have some thoughts on thistoo, but as generally I don't
recommend just having ASCrunning.
So I would have a separatecampaign, which is for testing.
We're putting budget towardsthat testing.
And in that campaign, we havedifferent ad sets testing your
(47:47):
different creative.
And I have found that Meta ismore likely to test that
creative and like roll throughall of those different creatives
than it is in ASC.
And then the winning creatives,we'll move them into ASC.
And generally when you've gotlike a full funnel of creative
inside ASC.
You will see like those morestorytelling kind of ads will
get some of the budget and thenthe kind of bottom of funnel ads
(48:09):
will get some of the budget too.
So naturally that kind of funnelsystem, it should work inside
ASC, but it doesn't always.
So sometimes you have to thencreate additional campaigns, but
yeah, what in terms of thetesting and getting those
multiple different creatives outfor testing, I recommend doing
that inside a CBO.
So campaign budget, multiple adsets.
(48:30):
Each ad set is a differentcreative test.
You might have multiple likemicro variations within that ad
set.
That's how I'm doing it at themoment.
Again, every account isdifferent.
You might have differentmethods.
I don't know if Sarah andPhoenix, you guys have thoughts
on like how we make sure.
The new creative gets tested andalso the kind of different types
of creative get kind of play inthe ad account.
(48:53):
Yeah, I'll jump in.
I never creative test and we'llsee anymore.
Case study being I had anaccount that I did one ASC test
campaign and then one scalingcampaign with just one ASC with
catalog specific or DPA andevery single time the catalog
one.
Every single time and then itwould just demolish the
(49:13):
creative.
But then if I hadn't in an ABOor CBO, it would be like
flourishing.
So what I do is I scale with ASCand I test with CBO or ABO.
I know Mitch Barham is in thechat.
I don't know if he's.
still here, but he does the samething.
We talk about this all the time.
We do a live on Tik TOK and wetalk about, he hates ASC
audience or advantage plusaudiences because they just
don't work for him.
(49:34):
And you just have to be verycareful if you're running an
entire account on ASC because,and I'm, I know that we're
inching our way towards that,but, But yeah, I don't know if
you have thoughts around it, butI, I'm like in a weird crack in
the industry.
Cause like I'm a consultant, soI see a lot of weird stuff.
So I, I, I get into theseaccounts and some of them are
running entirely ASC.
(49:55):
I see some accounts that arerunning entirely on just dynamic
creative.
Some of them are split out stillby a testing campaign, a scaling
campaign, and then just like arando campaign.
Like the interesting part is Ithink.
We need to remember that as muchas Meta is like training
customers to come in and get ourads and like click and buy,
customers are training Meta aswell.
The actual ad account, liketheir behavior is training our
(50:17):
algorithm to prefer a specifictype of creative.
So.
Some of these ad accounts thatI've been in keep saying, well,
Sarah, we can't run staticsbecause our ad account will only
take video.
That's mostly because your rinseand repeat method has trained
the algorithm to only findpeople that like video.
So in general, I think itwhatever works for the brand, I
(50:39):
think is kind of the importantpiece here is whatever setup is
getting you sales is probablythe best setup for you.
I don't think there's typicallyone right setup.
Because at some point your setupis going to fatigue and you'll
have to just shift things andchange it.
You'll have to do thatcontinuously.
So keep, keep, I hate that word,but like keep testing.
Cause yeah, I mean there's likeprinciples, right?
(50:59):
Like don't go super micro andsplit your budget across a
million different ad sets, butyou might have to if your ad
account is behaving in that wayof like just pushing to a
certain creative type.
Then you might have to have morecampaigns than maybe like the
best practice advisors.
And you just have to look at thedata, follow it, see how your
(51:19):
account performs and kind oflike hack your way through it in
a way to get the results thatyou, you need to get.
And someone asked about how, howare we measuring like the
different types of creative?
And I said, ultimately themeasure is like the whole
account.
Level ROAS, right?
Or if we have something likeAdBeacon, you'd be able to look
at that and see like from metaas a whole, how is my CPA and my
(51:42):
ROAS, because all of thosedifferent campaigns and
different ads are contributingin different ways to an
ultimately an end result.
So Sometimes looking at theindividual ad performance can be
like, not very productive.
And you want to just look atlike, okay, with this whole
setup and with this set of ads,how is my account performing?
Oh, just just revved me up.
(52:03):
I'm so excited.
What would happen all the time?
And this is just like, I don'tknow, maybe like certain types
of people are just like, Verymeticulous like I am.
So I had an account where, okay,so often we as media buyers will
take one creative and we willduplicate it multiple times in
an account like 15, 16 timesacross so many different
(52:23):
audiences.
So ad sets, et cetera.
And what we might change in avariable is copy headline,
right?
But, or they could be the exactsame and then you use post ID,
et cetera.
Anyway, my point is, is thatwhat I noticed is that people
were Reporting to brands, howone ad was performing and
saying, we need more of thiscreative one ad is not a
(52:43):
creative analysis.
One ad is an ad analysis of howit's performing under a
specific.
Yeah.
Demographic or I would sayaudience that you've chosen in
campaign.
So what we've done in adbeacons, we pull the image hash.
So let's just say it's image.
We do this video and we separatecopy, we separate all of that.
And we said, okay, there's 15versions of this specific image.
(53:05):
This is how it's trending interms of revenue.
CT R, et cetera, because thenyou'll be able to know this is
what's working.
This specific image, whetherit's on body, off, body
specific, female model, malemodel.
What drives that I think are theleverage for, and then you can
do, oh, is it actually thevariation with copy that
actually did this?
Or is it just the copy that didthis?
And then as you start to deducedown, you'll realize, oh, I've
(53:27):
been doing this all wrong.
And now all those agents.
Is that we're telling brands, weneed more video.
We need more video.
If they're not the onesproducing at the agency, that
takes a lot of time and effort,a lot of money to produce video.
When that wasn't the winner tobegin with, it was actually the
copy or whatever it may be.
So.
Some things to think about.
Yeah.
We had a question about costcaps and bid caps, which I've, I
(53:51):
actually don't use them a lot inthe accounts I work on.
It's a very contentious thingbut you know, like there's
people out there that aregetting fantastic results with
them.
So I wouldn't say again, it'sabout testing.
My mom identity is calling atthe store, go get it, go do it.
Yeah.
And I'll just switch on to thethe freebies there.
Just give me one second.
I'll show you guys a chat.
Yeah, no, first and foremost, Ijust want to say like, there is
(54:14):
no one way to media by Jessesaid it perfectly.
I've talked about this withSarah speaking in absolutes does
nothing.
So as much as I love Taylorholiday, who I know personally,
and Charlie Tickner and thetypes that are out there that,
and Andrew Ferris, like allgreat people, you just have to
remember what is working foryour account tested all
personally, budget cost caps andbid caps.
(54:36):
I don't necessarily.
I don't advocate for it.
And the reason why I don'tadvocate for it is because I
don't trust Meta's data.
So why would I trust Meta to putcaps, right?
That, that's my principle.
That's who I am.
So just consider that.
And yeah, if you guys want 20percent off of that, we can just
type in the code Phoenix likesme.
Cause I do.
That's amazing.
(54:57):
Oh, Jesse, you're muted.
Well, good muted you.
Yeah.
I popped in the chat, my freebieas well, which is a profit
calculator.
So, so many brands come to meand like, what should my
customer.
My customer cost of acquisition,customer acquisition costs.
Oh my God.
Be CAC and I created a kind ofcalculator, Google doc that you
(55:19):
can use to a Google worksheetyou can use to calculate it all
out.
And there's a little video withtraining on there.
So you can get that from thatlink.
And Sarah, you were going togive, you were going to look for
your freebie.
Did you find it?
I totally found my freebie.
It's, it's been a long timesince I it's been a long time
since I've been on one of thesewhere I needed a freebie.
So anyways, this is the freebiethat I have.
(55:39):
This one is specifically acourse that will teach you how
to create emotionally focusedads, specifically statics.
Cause I like to test staticsbefore I go into more expensive
types of ads.
So if you guys want to learn howto, how to do psychographic ads
you can go to this link.
Love it.
That's amazing.
Well, thank you all for coming.
It was awesome having you here.
And I loved jamming with youladies.
It was the best.
(56:01):
To more no bro, get togethersand chat, because I think I
learned a lot today so yeah,guys.
Awesome.
We'll see you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Thanks so much for joining us here on the
E-Commerce Impact Podcast.
If I can ask you one favor, canyou please make sure you
subscribe, and if you can leaveus a review, it helps us have a
much bigger impact with whatwe're trying to do here at the
E-Commerce Impact Podcast.
Now, if you're ready to takeyour e-commerce store to the
next level, then go towww.ecommerceimpactpodcast.com
(56:34):
and click on the button to booka strategy call with me.
On my team, we offer a freeorder of your advertising and a
custom growth plan.
So you really have nothing tolose by getting in touch and
jumping on call with us.
See you soon, and watch out forthe next episode in two weeks
time.
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